Butler Coaching Search

[Muskie]

Adam Zagoria lists Butler Assistants (current or former) (Micah Shrewsberry, Matt Graves, Ryan Pedon, and LaVal Jordan) as candidates.

[XU 87]

Is the Butler board predicting that Brad Stevens is coming back?

[Muskie]

Not that I've seen.

[muskiefan82]

It has to be about the money. I know that OSU is huge and can do anything needed with their cash flow and that they have a significant recent basketball history, but is it really better than Butler right now? Man, this sucks for them. We've been there. I hope they can hit a home run for the conference. They need to remain very good in the Big East. I wonder if there will be a Butler/OSU Gavitt Game in the next few years. That could get interesting.

[paulxu]

Butler should hire Matta.

[WCWIII]

Travis Steele

Inter-conference and recruiting issues certainly. It would be a great destination for him.

Of course, I hope he stays at Xavier, but he's earned his shot if the opportunity arises. Best for Xavier are well-compensated and a stable staff of assistants, but these guys have their career goals as well.

[Muskie]

I just really wonder how much money Butler has to make a hire. X and Butler have the lowest endowment's in the Conference last I checked. I don't know what Holtman was making, but I doubt it was what Mack was making.

[GoMuskies]

Hopefully Butler is getting a nice check from Ohio State to help subsidize the search.

[XU 87]

I just really wonder how much money Butler has to make a hire. X and Butler have the lowest endowment's in the Conference last I checked. I don't know what Holtman was making, but I doubt it was what Mack was making.

X, at $150 million, has the lowest endowment in the league. Butler is second last at $170 million. The other schools are in the $400-600 million range, except GTown, which is above a billion.

[Muskie]

X, at $150 million, has the lowest endowment in the league. Butler is second last at $170 million. The other schools are in the $400-600 million range, except GTown, which is above a billion.

I was looking at old numbers then, as X was above Butler (who can ever really be sure with these things). I do know that Butler just got 9.7 million in donations to related to their Football Stadium. Some of that was to go to Athletics and some was to go to the general University Fund. I've seen various reports on what Holtman could have been making at Butler. The lowest projection (which I don't believe) was something like 1 million per season.

[AviatorX]

Travis Steele

Inter-conference and recruiting issues certainly. It would be a great destination for him.

Of course, I hope he stays at Xavier, but he's earned his shot if the opportunity arises. Best for Xavier are well-compensated and a stable staff of assistants, but these guys have their career goals as well.

I'd be floored if they hired someone from the X family. Although I think Steele will be a tremendous HC in the future.

[XU 87]

I was looking at old numbers then, as X was above Butler (who can ever really be sure with these things). I do know that Butler just got 9.7 million in donations to related to their Football Stadium. Some of that was to go to Athletics and some was to go to the general University Fund. I've seen various reports on what Holtman could have been making at Butler. The lowest projection (which I don't believe) was something like 1 million per season.

My source is Wiki. I just found it "interesting" how much lower XU and Butler's endowments are compared to the rest of the league.

[Muskie]

My source is Wiki. I just found it "interesting" how much lower XU and Butler's endowments are compared to the rest of the league.

Yes. It was shocking the first time I looked as well. Though I believe X's is somewhat depleted because of all the campus projects we undertook in the past ten years. But there is still significant ground to make up no matter the reason. GTown's is impressive.

[X-man]

My source is Wiki. I just found it "interesting" how much lower XU and Butler's endowments are compared to the rest of the league.

Xavier's endowment, as low as it is, is a vast improvement from where it was in the mid-80's when I started work at Xavier. At that time, the endowment was less than $10M and falling. It definitely needs to be bigger than it is (I think the rule of thumb is the endowment should be at least 200% of the annual operating budget), and hopefully the next capital campaign will focus more heavily on building the endowment than the previous ones. Xavier's infrastructure was in terrible shape in the mid-80's because of deferred maintenance, and so it made sense to use capital campaign monies to rebuild the campus. Now only the sports center needs replacement (which will happen in the next couple of years with the Tri-Health project on the east campus); every other building is either new or significantly renovated, making the campus the beautiful place it has now become.

[Muskie]

Xavier's endowment, as low as it is, is a vast improvement from where it was in the mid-80's when I started work at Xavier. At that time, the endowment was less than $10M and falling. It definitely needs to be bigger than it is (I think the rule of thumb is the endowment should be at least 200% of the annual operating budget), and hopefully the next capital campaign will focus more heavily on building the endowment than the previous ones. Xavier's infrastructure was in terrible shape in the mid-80's because of deferred maintenance, and so it made sense to use capital campaign monies to rebuild the campus. Now only the sports center needs replacement (which will happen in the next couple of years with the Tri-Health project on the east campus); every other building is either new or significantly renovated, making the campus the beautiful place it has now become.

I'm definitely starting to see this on the Fundraising end of Xavier based on the mailers and campaigns I've been asked to support. To me it's a positive sign.

[XU 87]

Yes. It was shocking the first time I looked as well. Though I believe X's is somewhat depleted because of all the campus projects we undertook in the past ten years. But there is still significant ground to make up no matter the reason. GTown's is impressive.

XU's endowment is even less than Duquesne and St. Joe's.

Ok, now back to discussing Butler coaching search.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Hopefully Butler is getting a nice check from Ohio State to help subsidize the search.

I think I saw 2 million.

[Muskie]

I think I saw 2 million.

I saw that as well. Not sure if that's all at once, or over time.

[GoMuskies]

It's hard to get people excited about a capital campaign to build endowment. I mean, if you give money and it results in a building, that's something. If you give money with the express purpose of having the university put it in the bank, that's not as cool.

[Muskie]

It's hard to get people excited about a capital campaign to build endowment. I mean, if you give money and it results in a building, that's something. If you give money with the express purpose of having the university put it in the bank, that's not as cool.

It's time to make saving money great again!

[XU 87]

Xavier's endowment, as low as it is, is a vast improvement from where it was in the mid-80's when I started work at Xavier.

I think the endowment back then was about $7 million. The joke was that St. X's endowment was more than XU's. But XU has come a long way since then.

[Muskie]

According to the Indy Star Holtman was making a touch around 1.2 Million after a recent contract extension.

[Muskie]

Indy Star's list of candidates (Link (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2017/06/09/potential-candidates-butler-stay-family-again/382221001/))

Yes. Even Matta makes the list.

[xudash]

Xavier's endowment is more than what is shown on that sight.

Two other major points:

As was noted, Xavier has been on a building boom since 2000, in particular. I can't remember the exact figure, but construction and renovations to campus since then have totaled about $250 million. Believe it or not, there are projects on the boards beyond the new health center as part of a long-term view of what the campus will become. Obviously, with the new health center (or whatever you want to call it), the campus will have made remarkable strides.

The second point is that we are about to come out of the silent phase of the current campaign. It's not my place to throw out numbers, but we will all be fairly pleased with where the endowment is headed.

On that note, please continue to fork over money to Victory Parkway!

[bobandtim]

As stated, Xavier board over last 20 years has improved building and facilities at Xavier with large donations...visit campus....it sure seems like a wise decision to me. Endowments help you give more scholarships which is good, but you need updated technology, buildings an excellent faculty and the correct majors to remain competitive today....many of the other schools mentioned have medical, engineering and law schools which helps since these graduates often have larger estates. The Xavier Athletic Department has done an excellent job generating funds from Xavier athletics and with managing their budget imho....go Xavier!!

[GoMuskies]

Indy Star's list of candidates (Link (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2017/06/09/potential-candidates-butler-stay-family-again/382221001/))

Yes. Even Matta makes the list.

This seems like a strange way to start a sentence in that article: "Johnson is a black coach,"

[Muskie]

This seems like a strange way to start a sentence in that article: "Johnson is a black coach,"

yeah... that's why I rarely read the Indy Star.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's hard to get people excited about a capital campaign to build endowment. I mean, if you give money and it results in a building, that's something. If you give money with the express purpose of having the university put it in the bank, that's not as cool.

Ha good point.

Anyone have a list of Jesuit University endowments? I did a quick Google search but couldnt find one. I saw one thing from a couple years ago that had the top 3 Jesuit Universities as BC, Georgetown, and SLU.

I think SLU's is just over 1B.

[Muskie]

As a college basketball fan I don't envy the way Butler fans feel right now (it probably helps that I know quite a few of then personally - Best Friend from law school is a BU Grad). I think we all remember what it's like to have someone leave in June. Luckily it worked for us (though the First Miller year was rough). Hope it works out for them. I want the conference to remain strong.

[JTG]

When I was at X, 68-72, they didn't have money for anything, let alone an endowment. I will always be convinced it was on the verge of closing by the mid 70s. Thank God for Bill Daily. That, and letting that stooge Fr. Mulligan go.

[muskiefan82]

As a college basketball fan I don't envy the way Butler fans feel right now (it probably helps that I know quite a few of then personally - Best Friend from law school is a BU Grad). I think we all remember what it's like to have someone leave in June. Luckily it worked for us (though the First Miller year was rough). Hope it works out for them. I want the conference to remain strong.

Here is hoping Butler gets OSU at their place for a Gavitt Game in the next few years and beats the living crap out of them.

[XUFan09]

It has to be about the money. I know that OSU is huge and can do anything needed with their cash flow and that they have a significant recent basketball history, but is it really better than Butler right now? Man, this sucks for them. We've been there. I hope they can hit a home run for the conference. They need to remain very good in the Big East. I wonder if there will be a Butler/OSU Gavitt Game in the next few years. That could get interesting.

I imagine the job security from an 8-year contract factored in. Also, at the moment, Butler is better, because OSU has been on a downward trend, but in the long term, OSU has a lot more upside than Butler.

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[BandAid]

This seems like a strange way to start a sentence in that article: "Johnson is a black coach,"

Not just a sentence, but the entire introduction to four candidates. Wow.

[BMoreX]

Not just a sentence, but the entire introduction to four candidates. Wow.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this.

I thought the entire article was pretty poorly written tbh.

[Olsingledigit]

I was looking at old numbers then, as X was above Butler (who can ever really be sure with these things). I do know that Butler just got 9.7 million in donations to related to their Football Stadium. Some of that was to go to Athletics and some was to go to the general University Fund. I've seen various reports on what Holtman could have been making at Butler. The lowest projection (which I don't believe) was something like 1 million per season.
According to the Indy Star article Holman was making $1.2 mil at Butler and will make $3.1 mil at OSU

[Muskie]

According to the Indy Star article Holman was making $1.2 mil at Butler and will make $3.1 mil at OSU
Yes. It feels weird quoting the Star for accuracy though. They sometimes don't get the box scores right anymore.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just looking at more of the school's endowments and was wondering what OSUs was and it was what I thought was very big at over 3.5B then I saw Michigan's at 10.5B!!!!

[GIMMFD]

Just looking at more of the school's endowments and was wondering what OSUs was and it was what I thought was very big at over 3.5B then I saw Michigan's at 10.5B!!!!

Dear god, what the hell...

[XUFan09]

Dear god, what the hell...
Michigan does some excellent research too, which probably helps.

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[bobbiemcgee]

Just looking at more of the school's endowments and was wondering what OSUs was and it was what I thought was very big at over 3.5B then I saw Michigan's at 10.5B!!!!

Harvard's closing in on 38B.

[LA Muskie]

When I was at X, 68-72, they didn't have money for anything, let alone an endowment. I will always be convinced it was on the verge of closing by the mid 70s. Thank God for Bill Daily. That, and letting that stooge Fr. Mulligan go.

It was.


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[Emp]

When I was at X, 68-72, they didn't have money for anything, let alone an endowment. I will always be convinced it was on the verge of closing by the mid 70s. Thank God for Bill Daily. That, and letting that stooge Fr. Mulligan go.

......enrolling women in the day school and dropping a football program hemmoraging $250K a year stopped some of the bleeding at the time.

In the effect, Mack is making a huge yearly subsidy to X by staying at our alma mater for half of what he would command elsewhere.

[joe titan]

Absolutely ! If OSU paid Holtman $3M+ for 8 yrs, what might OSU have offered Mack ? Also would Butler, notwithstanding the success in finding HC without experience, not believe they are "entitled" to somebody with HC experience ? For a program at the BE level, it is a big risk to think some assistant can hold the reigns of the program successfully.

[LA Muskie]

In the effect, Mack is making a huge yearly subsidy to X by staying at our alma mater for half of what he would command elsewhere.
Huh?



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[LA Muskie]

Absolutely ! If OSU paid Holtman $3M+ for 8 yrs, what might OSU have offered Mack ? Also would Butler, notwithstanding the success in finding HC without experience, not believe they are "entitled" to somebody with HC experience ? For a program at the BE level, it is a big risk to think some assistant can hold the reigns of the program successfully.

That's really not how it works. If they would have offered Chris more, they would have. And plenty of high major programs have successfully transitioned to first-time head coaches.


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[X-man]

When I was at X, 68-72, they didn't have money for anything, let alone an endowment. I will always be convinced it was on the verge of closing by the mid 70s. Thank God for Bill Daily. That, and letting that stooge Fr. Mulligan go.

When I started working at Xavier, they were in very bad shape financially with deferred maintenance on all campus facilities, an endowment below $10M, and a budget deficit which meant they were chewing into that miniscule endowment as well as selling off stuff. The decision to buy Edgecliff didn't help either. I credit the CFO, Richard Hirte', with turning things around by focusing on capital improvements and a better accounting system. Then Father Hoff came, and the recovery kicked into high gear with the help of athletic visionaries like Bill Daily. Now the campus is gorgeous and the budget balanced even though the endowment, at about $150M, is still too small. Hopefully the next capital campaign, plus a Final Four for our men's basketball team, will put us solid enough financial footing to ride out all the storminess currently engulfing higher educational institutions.

[xudash]

When I started working at Xavier, they were in very bad shape financially with deferred maintenance on all campus facilities, an endowment below $10M, and a budget deficit which meant they were chewing into that miniscule endowment as well as selling off stuff. The decision to buy Edgecliff didn't help either. I credit the CFO, Richard Hirte', with turning things around by focusing on capital improvements and a better accounting system. Then Father Hoff came, and the recovery kicked into high gear with the help of athletic visionaries like Bill Daily. Now the campus is gorgeous and the budget balanced even though the endowment, at about $150M, is still too small. Hopefully the next capital campaign, plus a Final Four for our men's basketball team, will put us solid enough financial footing to ride out all the storminess currently engulfing higher educational institutions.

Let me do this again.

The endowment presently sits at approx. $170 million.

We're in a campaign now, and let's just say it's going well, but we should all continue to cough up money to make it even better.

Yes. God bless him, but Father Mulligan was less than stellar in this area. But we're catching up and have a clue now.

[Olsingledigit]

Yes we do have a clue and the development staff is working hard to get us to a better position. We unfortunately do not have the cadre of big hitters that other schools do. At least we have not tapped them yet. I am confident we are on the right track and better endowment times are to come.

[deepX]

When I started working at Xavier, they were in very bad shape financially with deferred maintenance on all campus facilities, an endowment below $10M, and a budget deficit which meant they were chewing into that miniscule endowment as well as selling off stuff. The decision to buy Edgecliff didn't help either. I credit the CFO, Richard Hirte', with turning things around by focusing on capital improvements and a better accounting system. Then Father Hoff came, and the recovery kicked into high gear with the help of athletic visionaries like Bill Daily. Now the campus is gorgeous and the budget balanced even though the endowment, at about $150M, is still too small. Hopefully the next capital campaign, plus a Final Four for our men's basketball team, will put us solid enough financial footing to ride out all the storminess currently engulfing higher educational institutions.

X-man, and there were unknown/forgotten others who worked tirelessly for many years to get Xavier's finances in order. Of course, those in the corner offices "deserve" all the credit!

[Muskie]

It looks like LaVall Jordan will be the next Coach at Butler.

[XU 87]

Based on his one year as head coach at Milwaukee (11-24 and 4-14 in the league) If I were a Butler fan, this hire wouldn't make me too confident. They did make it to the finals of their league tourney. But this team won 20 games the year before. Makes you wonder.

[Muskie]

Based on his one year as head coach at Milwaukee (11-24 and 4-14 in the league) If I were a Butler fan, this hire wouldn't make me too confident. They did make it to the finals of their league tourney. But this team won 20 games the year before. Makes you wonder.

The team he took over had one of the highest player turnover's in College Basketball from the year before. From what I've seen they are ecstatic to get him back at Butler.

[XU 87]

I don't know what happened, but finishing last in the Horizon league isn't much of a resume builder.

[chico]

I don't know what happened, but finishing last in the Horizon league isn't much of a resume builder.

Maybe he's their Sam Wyche.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I trolled their site. He coached at Michigan and recruited some great players there.

[JTG]

Most of the Alums wanted Jordan when Brandon Miller was hired. By the way, Miller is living in seclusion in New Castle , In.

[MuskieXU]

I dont have intimate knowledge of Jordan but he seems to be a good hire from everything I've read. Apparently he was involved with the recruiting and development of guys like Burke, Walton, Stuaskas, etc who took Michigan to the title game a few years back. I dont think his record at Milwaukee is meaningful at all. He had one of the youngest teams in all of College basketball last year and a lot of coaches start slow. Holtman was worse in his first year at Gardener Webb, for example.

[AviatorX]

Most of the Alums wanted Jordan when Brandon Miller was hired. By the way, Miller is living in seclusion in New Castle , In.

What's the story here? What a strange situation.

[ammtd34]

What's the story here? What a strange situation.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/lost-in-the-legend-of-steve-alford-the-other-indiana-star-who-disappeared-025128035.html

[X-band '01]

I don't know what happened, but finishing last in the Horizon league isn't much of a resume builder.

They also advanced to the Horizon League championship game and nearly prevented NKU from clinching the Horizon crown back in March. As our resident under-the-radar expert Brew will attest, Milwaukee was a dumpster fire when Jordan arrived to clean up their mess.

[X-band '01]

It looks like LaVall Jordan will be the next Coach at Butler.

Jeff Goodman now saying Jordan will be announced as head coach on Wednesday by Butler.

[Muskie]

Looks like Holtmann is going to take most of the assistants with him...

[muskiefan82]

So, little Wisc-Milwaukee will go back to dumpsterfiredom for the foreseeable future. There is always a big loser in these June coaching changes and Wisc-Mil is it this year.

[xubrew]

So, little Wisc-Milwaukee will go back to dumpsterfiredom for the foreseeable future. There is always a big loser in these June coaching changes and Wisc-Mil is it this year.

That's not really a change is it?

[muskiefan82]

That's not really a change is it?

There is truth there. It just sucks for the little guy sometimes.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

What's the story here? What a strange situation.
From what my Indy/Butler friends have mentioned, Miller was dealing with (maybe still is) a prescription drug issue. Apparently, it's not that big of a secret among the Butler community.

[MuskieXU]

After doing some reading I think this is a very good hire for Butler, although they may need a little more patience than their used to as most 38 year olds need a little bit of time to get acclimated to leading a power conference program. The lingering question in my mind, however, is this: If Jordan has a successful 5 or 6 years and Beilein retires in 5 or 6 years (hes already 64 years old) doesnt Michigan offer him the job and doesnt he probably take it? I guess you can't worry about that too much when making a hire but it would definitely be in the back of my mind as a Butler fan.

[Muskie]

After doing some reading I think this is a very good hire for Butler, although they may need a little more patience than their used to as most 38 year olds need a little bit of time to get acclimated to leading a power conference program. The lingering question in my mind, however, is this: If Jordan has a successful 5 or 6 years and Beilein retires in 5 or 6 years (hes already 64 years old) doesnt Michigan offer him the job and doesnt he probably take it? I guess you can't worry about that too much when making a hire but it would definitely be in the back of my mind as a Butler fan.

I've seen this issue acknowledged over on their board. The general sentiment seems to be that they will deal with it when it happens.

[MuskieXU]

I've seen this issue acknowledged over on their board. The general sentiment seems to be that they will deal with it when it happens.

Thats all you really can do. You're not going to hire a worse coach because the better one might leave in 5 years.

[bleedXblue]

After doing some reading I think this is a very good hire for Butler, although they may need a little more patience than their used to as most 38 year olds need a little bit of time to get acclimated to leading a power conference program. The lingering question in my mind, however, is this: If Jordan has a successful 5 or 6 years and Beilein retires in 5 or 6 years (hes already 64 years old) doesnt Michigan offer him the job and doesnt he probably take it? I guess you can't worry about that too much when making a hire but it would definitely be in the back of my mind as a Butler fan.

Holtmann stepped right in and won at Butler. I see little issue with next years team. They are pretty solid

[AviatorX]

Now that the dust is settled and Butler's roster looks to be complete, I poked around on their board a bit. I think they still have a pretty talented roster, but some redundant pieces and a glaring hole at the 4. In a way, kind of a similar spot X was in with 8 healthy guys last year but 3 were 5's.

Martin is absolutely going to have to play minutes at the 4 for them, but he has had foul problems in the past. There is some discussion over there about going with two bigs out of Wideman/Brunk/Fowler, but I can't imagine that lineup not getting shredded by X and Nova's 4-out lineups. The Big East is not the conference where you want to be trying to play two non-mobile bigs (if that league still exists at this point).

[casualfan]

Now that the dust is settled and Butler's roster looks to be complete, I poked around on their board a bit. I think they still have a pretty talented roster, but some redundant pieces and a glaring hole at the 4. In a way, kind of a similar spot X was in with 8 healthy guys last year but 3 were 5's.

Martin is absolutely going to have to play minutes at the 4 for them, but he has had foul problems in the past. There is some discussion over there about going with two bigs out of Wideman/Brunk/Fowler, but I can't imagine that lineup not getting shredded by X and Nova's 4-out lineups. The Big East is not the conference where you want to be trying to play two non-mobile bigs (if that league still exists at this point).

I think they're going to take a big step back this year. One of the things I don't think gets talked about enough is how versatile, experienced and deep their roster was last year.

They lose Woodson, Savage, Tyler Lewis and Chrabascz.

Woodson was a really good shooter that helped to stretch the defense and Savage was really good off the bounce.

Tyler Lewis always struggled against us, but he was a really solid guy as a secondary point.

And then there is Chrabascz who of all our opposing players might be my favorite. The basically ran their entire offense through him when he was on the floor.

So while none of those guys are an all american level player they are all really really solid guys that you now don't have.

I know they still have a solid first group with Baldwin, Jorgensen, Mcdermott, Martin and Fowler/Wideman, but their bench is going to be extremely weak.

It's going to be particularly rough for them at the guard spot unless one of the freshman step up in a big way.

[ammtd34]

The Kyle Young thread on their board is pretty nuts.


**** Young. I really hope we get a chance, somehow, to play them and Wideman or Martin go straight hood on him, planting him into the wood as hard as possible. Suck it Young, your team will suck, ours will be good. You, son, just made a horrible decision. Enjoy sucking and playing for a reckless horse crap coach.

[AviatorX]

I think they're going to take a big step back this year. One of the things I don't think gets talked about enough is how versatile, experienced and deep their roster was last year.

They lose Woodson, Savage, Tyler Lewis and Chrabascz.

Woodson was a really good shooter that helped to stretch the defense and Savage was really good off the bounce.

Tyler Lewis always struggled against us, but he was a really solid guy as a secondary point.

And then there is Chrabascz who of all our opposing players might be my favorite. The basically ran their entire offense through him when he was on the floor.

So while none of those guys are an all american level player they are all really really solid guys that you now don't have.

I know they still have a solid first group with Baldwin, Jorgensen, Mcdermott, Martin and Fowler/Wideman, but their bench is going to be extremely weak.

It's going to be particularly rough for them at the guard spot unless one of the freshman step up in a big way.

Agreed all around. Baldwin also wasn't as potent down the stretch.

To clarify my earlier post, I don't think they'll be all that good. But I usually think that about Butler's roster so....

[casualfan]

But I usually think that about Butler's roster so....

I think the thing about their roster, specifically this past year was how deep and varied it was which allowed them to combat just about any defense teams would throw at them.

You want to play a tight man and try to pressure our guards we'll put Wideman in and run pick and roll with Baldwin and Savage all day long.

You want to play a sagging zone to try and stop penetration we'll run Fowler Chrabascz and Woodson out there and ring up a bunch of open threes.

You want to pressure our pretty awesome, but slightly turnover proned true freshman point guard we'll put in Tyler Lewis a guy whose only value is his ball security.

It's not that they had a bunch of stars, it's that they had a ton of slightly better than average guys that were all good at different things.

And Holtmann is such a good coach that when teams changed up their strategy he would adjust right along with them.

Now their roster is still going to be mostly made up of slightly better than average guys but there just aren't going to be as many of them and with that i think it will be easier for teams to gameplan Butler and it'll be harder for Butler to change styles on a dime with a substitution or two.

[XMuskieFTW]

The Kyle Young thread on their board is pretty nuts.

#classy

[bleedXblue]

Butler will be fine next year. I think they are picked to finish 5th. I don't see much of a drop off.

[casualfan]

Butler will be fine next year. I think they are picked to finish 5th. I don't see much of a drop off.

I mean they finished second last year so that alone would be a fairly significant dropoff...

[bleedXblue]

I mean they finished second last year so that alone would be a fairly significant dropoff...

Yeah but it looks like you're trying to tie it to the coaching change. I think there is enough talent that just about any decent coach should be able to maintain what they have. Long term......no one knows of course.

[Muskie]

Butler has hired Jeff Meyer (from UM) as an assistant. That's a good get for them.

[AviatorX]

Butler has hired Jeff Meyer (from UM) as an assistant. That's a good get for them.

When I think of The Butler Way (tm), I think Kelvin Sampson's staff at IU.

[JTG]

When I think of The Butler Way (tm), I think Kelvin Sampson's staff at IU.

Pretty harsh words. Sampson was a big time sleazeball, cheater, and cut lots of corners. Say what you will about Butler, I doubt they cheat.

[AviatorX]

Pretty harsh words. Sampson was a big time sleazeball, cheater, and cut lots of corners. Say what you will about Butler, I doubt they cheat.

Yeah, I'm just poking fun at the Butler Way. Sampson's violations really weren't all that bad. But Butler's sanctimonious Twitter crew would surely mention that if a rival school hired Meyer.

It's definitely a good hire, by the way.

[Irishdawg]

The Kyle Young thread on their board is pretty nuts.

To be fair, that's basically the one post that puts any of the blame on Kyle in the thread and every fanbase has doofuses like that.

The Meyer hire was big for Butler and Jordan IMO. Meyer was never implicated in Sampson's wrongdoings (despite Creany Tom's accusation).

Butler's roster isn't nearly as good as Xavier's, and it's really young, so they won't be nearly as good as last year, but I do think they can still win some games and get better throughout the season.

[xudash]

To be fair, that's basically the one post that puts any of the blame on Kyle in the thread and every fanbase has doofuses like that.

The Meyer hire was big for Butler and Jordan IMO. Meyer was never implicated in Sampson's wrongdoings (despite Creany Tom's accusation).

Butler's roster isn't nearly as good as Xavier's, and it's really young, so they won't be nearly as good as last year, but I do think they can still win some games and get better throughout the season.

Some of your fellow fans simply look very petty when it comes to attempting to dump on Xavier players - criminal activity, etc.

It makes Butler look small.

[ammtd34]

To be fair, that's basically the one post that puts any of the blame on Kyle in the thread and every fanbase has doofuses like that.

The Meyer hire was big for Butler and Jordan IMO. Meyer was never implicated in Sampson's wrongdoings (despite Creany Tom's accusation).

Butler's roster isn't nearly as good as Xavier's, and it's really young, so they won't be nearly as good as last year, but I do think they can still win some games and get better throughout the season.

That was just my favorite post. There are several pages of people asking for OSU to be blocked in a release, which isn't possible anyway.

[Irishdawg]

That was just my favorite post. There are several pages of people asking for OSU to be blocked in a release, which isn't possible anyway.

Yeah I can only speak for myself on that, but not only is it not possible, it's also a bad look for the school and can only hurt in recruiting going forward. For that reason I was glad they went ahead and released him, and I was also grateful that he stayed quiet about it (since the decision was made basically right after Holtmann accepted the job) until after LaVall was able to meet with the other recruits.

[Muskie]

Yeah I can only speak for myself on that, but not only is it not possible, it's also a bad look for the school and can only hurt in recruiting going forward. For that reason I was glad they went ahead and released him, and I was also grateful that he stayed quiet about it (since the decision was made basically right after Holtmann accepted the job) until after LaVall was able to meet with the other recruits.

You retained 4 out 5 guys. Have to be ecstatic with that all things considered.