Cincinnati to host first and second round games in 2022

[muethibp]

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2017-04-18/2019-2022-future-di-ncaa-championship-sites

UC is considered the host school which means, I believe, that they cannot play there. But Xavier certainly can. That would be very fun.

[GoMuskies]

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2017-04-18/2019-2022-future-di-ncaa-championship-sites

UC is considered the host school which means, I believe, that they cannot play there. But Xavier certainly can. That would be very fun.

Just need to be a top 4 seed....and better than one of Louisville or Kentucky. You know, no big deal.

[X-band '01]

Not necessarily - Xavier also got to play in Cleveland in 2011 when they were just a 6 seed. Teams would only be protected from playing against Xavier if the Muskies were to get in the 2022 Tournament as a 13 or worse seed.

[THRILLHOUSE]

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2017-04-18/2019-2022-future-di-ncaa-championship-sites

UC is considered the host school which means, I believe, that they cannot play there. But Xavier certainly can. That would be very fun.

According to the UC athletics twitter account, they can play there as well:

"@GoBEARCATS Since U.S. Bank Arena doesn't serve as UC's home court, the #Bearcats would be eligible to play there"

[xu95]

According to the UC athletics twitter account, they can play there as well:

"@GoBEARCATS Since U.S. Bank Arena doesn't serve as UC's home court, the #Bearcats would be eligible to play there"

I believe they are wrong. I believe if you are the host school or if you use that arena for a certain amount of games you can not play at that facility.

That is why you see a lot more conferences sponsoring a site vs a school doing it.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I believe they are wrong. I believe if you are the host school or if you use that arena for a certain amount of games you can not play at that facility.

Someone else tweeted that to the UC account as well, and here's their response:

"@GoBEARCATS As long as we don't have three regular season games at U.S. Bank that year, there are options that would allow us play there."

So I assume the NCAA has changed the rules allowing the host school to be able to play at a site, as long as they haven't played 3 or more games at that site during the season.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Someone else tweeted that to the UC account as well, and here's their response:

"@GoBEARCATS As long as we don't have three regular season games at U.S. Bank that year, there are options that would allow us play there."

So I assume the NCAA has changed the rules allowing the host school to be able to play at a site, as long as they haven't played 3 or more games at that site during the season.

And the NCAA Tournament wiki entry appears to confirm that - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament#Venu es

[STL_XUfan]

According to the UC athletics twitter account, they can play there as well:

"@GoBEARCATS Since U.S. Bank Arena doesn't serve as UC's home court, the #Bearcats would be eligible to play there"

We are going to subject out of town visitors to that sh*thole? So much for Midwestern hospitality.

[X-band '01]

And the NCAA Tournament wiki entry appears to confirm that - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament#Venu es

The problem here is that Cincinnati is the HOST institution for 2022, so their Twitter account is wrong. If the American Conference (or even Miami or NKU) were hosting, they would be allowed to play at USBank assuming they don't go over 3 home games. Villanova would have been allowed to play at Wells Fargo last year since La Salle was the host institution.

If you notice the Spokane subregional, Idaho is hosting (not Gonzaga) for that very reason.

[X-band '01]

We are going to subject out of town visitors to that sh*thole? So much for Midwestern hospitality.

It's also possible that renovations are in order for USBank Arena by 2022 - that also could have been a condition for hosting.

[drudy23]

Raise your hand if you would love to see Xavier play there while UC gets shipped out west? That would be the ultimate.

[drudy23]

It's also possible that renovations are in order for USBank Arena by 2022 - that also could have been a condition for hosting.

If so, they're taking a big gamble...who's gonna pay for it?

My guess it has more to do with the re-development of the city than anything.

[Ohionite_X]

Raise your hand if you would love to see Xavier play there while UC also plays in Cincinnati, at 5/3rd, in the NIT. That would be the ultimate.

Fixed.

[muskiefan82]

Raise your hand if you would love to see Xavier play there while UC has to play at NKU in the NIT? That would be the ultimate.

Fixed again.

[xubrew]

A friend of mine emailed me saying that UC was too dumb to realize that they weren't allowed to play at US Bank. I just thought he was joking.

Holy shit that's hilarious!! They ACTUALLY thought they were allowed to play at US Bank.

Well, now they're stuck doing all of the event management for free, and not getting to travel with their own team if they make the tournament. WELL DONE UC!!!

[AviatorX]

A friend of mine emailed me saying that UC was too dumb to realize that they weren't allowed to play at US Bank. I just thought he was joking.

Holy shit that's hilarious!! They ACTUALLY thought they were allowed to play at US Bank.

Well, now they're stuck doing all of the event management for free, and not getting to travel with their own team if they make the tournament. WELL DONE UC!!!

No way they are allowed to play there if they are host right? How could they mess that up?

I thought the 3 game limit thing only came into play when a school was NOT the host, like Nova in Philly.

[X-ceptional]

Looks like everyone has hit the points, but I figured I would cite directly from the horse's a$$... I mean, mouth. From the NCAA's website (click here (http://www.ncaa.com/content/di-principles-and-procedures-selection/)), scroll on down to section III. Building the Bracket:


A team will not be permitted to play in any facility in which it has played more than three games during its season, not including exhibitions and conference postseason tournaments.
This appears to be what UC is relying on. However, it is merely one of the rules. Continuing on...


A host institution’s team shall not be permitted to play at the site where the institution is hosting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

As already noted, the rules permit teams to play at a venue of which that team's conference is serving as host. I suppose the rules could change for '17-'18 season, but I doubt it. This is awesome.

[muskiefan82]

Imagine, if you will, a day where Xavier, Dayton, NKU, and Miami (I know) all play in Cincinnati, but UC has to play a road game at Ohio St. in the NIT.

[X-ceptional]

I would really love UC to elaborate on this reply it posted to the tweet when someone commented about the host institution rules:


Cincinnati Bearcats‏Verified account @GoBEARCATS 37m37 minutes ago

yes, but there are options that would allow a school to be eligible to play there if the school decided to pursue it.

What?

[AviatorX]

I would really love UC to elaborate on this reply it posted to the tweet when someone commented about the host institution rules:



What?

Options like not being the host school maybe? Haha I'm at a loss.

[xubrew]

No way they are allowed to play there if they are host right? How could they mess that up?

I thought the 3 game limit thing only came into play when a school was NOT the host, like Nova in Philly.

I'm guessing that the guy/girl running the twitter account isn't clear on the rule (probably someone in Sports Info) but the administrators are. Although, It is fun to imagine that they don't know the rule.

A "home floor" has always been defined as a floor that you play more than three games on not counting the conference tournaments. The years that the tournament was in Philly, Nova was not hosting, and they simply scheduled all but three of their games at the Pavilion so they could play at the Wachovia Center (or whatever the hell they're calling it these days).

But, no. If you're hosting, you cannot play at the site you are hosting even if it is not your home court. That's been the rule for close to thirty years.

[X-band '01]

That's why the only options are either letting Miami or NKU (or the American/MAC/Horizon) host those games.

[X-band '01]

I'm guessing that the guy/girl running the twitter account isn't clear on the rule (probably someone in Sports Info) but the administrators are. Although, It is fun to imagine that they don't know the rule.

A "home floor" has always been defined as a floor that you play more than three games on not counting the conference tournaments. The years that the tournament was in Philly, Nova was not hosting, and they simply scheduled all but three of their games at the Pavilion so they could play at the Wachovia Center (or whatever the hell they're calling it these days).

But, no. If you're hosting, you cannot play at the site you are hosting even if it is not your home court. That's been the rule for close to thirty years.

1987 was the last year teams were allowed to host early-round games (i.e. DePaul at what was then the Rosemont Horizon). 1992 was the last year Cincinnati hosted NCAA Tournament games - that was back when Ohio State was the #1 seed in the Southeast region. Even Miami got to play a game there against North Carolina in the first round.

I forget the year, but Xavier did put in an unsuccessful bid to host early round games at USBank Arena last decade.

[Ohionite_X]

What is the purpose of being the host team for a court that is not your home court? Does UC bank the money from ticket sales?

[drudy23]

Behind program success is PEOPLE. People that make DECISIONS to put their programs in the best place to succeed. THIS is the problem at UC. It's a slap in the face to the administration and coaches at Xavier to say Xavier's continued success over UC's struggles was just dumb luck. The people made it that way...bottom line, we have better talent at Xavier.

From the players, to the Presidents, to the ADs, to the coaches, to the asst coaches, to the Directors of Basketball Ops that do the traveling and scheduling. Maybe UC should re-evaluate that, as this is just ANOTHER example of their own incompetence that prohibits them from being what they once were.

[X-band '01]

Nope - all the ticket money goes straight to the NCAA. It's solely name recognition.

At least that's what I remember Brian Colleary (the old Duquesne AD) used to say when Duquesne hosted NCAA Tournament games at the old Mellon Arena.

[X-ceptional]

This thread got me thinking... does anyone know what benefit a school gets from hosting? Share of the gate or something?


Edit: I'm slow.

[Ohionite_X]

Nope - all the ticket money goes straight to the NCAA. It's solely name recognition.

At least that's what I remember Brian Colleary (the old Duquesne AD) used to say when Duquesne hosted NCAA Tournament games at the old Mellon Arena.

Seems strange to want to host then. Xavier clearly can benefit more from this than UC can.

[xubrew]

This thread got me thinking... does anyone know what benefit a school gets from hosting? Share of the gate or something?


Edit: I'm slow.

There isn't one. Anyone who does it is basically agreeing to be the NCAA's wait staff while doing all of the work and all of the event management, and there is absolutely nothing in return.

[94GRAD]

There isn't one. Anyone who does it is basically agreeing to be the NCAA's wait staff while doing all of the work and all of the event management, and there is absolutely nothing in return.

I think potentially playing in your hometown is a huge benefit!

[xubrew]

I think potentially playing in your hometown is a huge benefit!

Apparently that's what UC thought.

[drudy23]

So basically, thanks to UC for allowing us the opportunity for an NCAA home game. This is gold.

[Blue Blooded-05]

I believe Columbus is hosting opening rounds in 2019. No reason to not see both!

[X-band '01]

Correct - that's at Nationwide Arena with Ohio State hosting. They've hosted about once every 5-6 years since that arena opened up. Cleveland also got 1st-2nd round games for a year, but Dayton didn't get anything beyond opening round games. That may or may not go well with their fanbase.

[Ohionite_X]

Correct - that's at Nationwide Arena with Ohio State hosting. They've hosted about once every 5-6 years since that arena opened up. Cleveland also got 1st-2nd round games for a year, but Dayton didn't get anything beyond opening round games. That may or may not go well with their fanbase.

I've always thought of the First Four as a punishment and sending them to Dayton every year has reassured me that the NCAA thinks it's a punishment too.

[paulxu]

There's always Greenville, SC !

[X-band '01]

I forget the year, but Buffalo is also going to be an early round host. Is it too early to predict that Villanova will be a high seed and lose in the 2nd round that year?

[xu82]

There's always Greenville, SC !

Great place!

[GIMMFD]

Who knows where our program is at 2022, I mean hell with the way we've been recruiting we could realistically be a top 4 seed above Kentucky and Louisville.. how sweet would it be if Xavier got an NCAA Tournament game in Cincinnati??? I could only imagine the shenanigans present at that game...

[MADXSTER]

This thread got me thinking... does anyone know what benefit a school gets from hosting? Share of the gate or something?


Maybe a kick back from the city? The City Of Cincinnati is the one to benefit...hotels, food and entertainment, stores, gas stations, etc. plus exposure.

[xubrew]

Maybe a kick back from the city? The City Of Cincinnati is the one to benefit...hotels, food and entertainment, stores, gas stations, etc. plus exposure.

The NCAA Tournament ended less than three weeks ago. Do you even remember half of the locations, or more specifically the schools/conferences that hosted them? Do you know which school hosted the Final Four without looking it up?

I'm not calling you out. Just trying to make a point. I've heard the "exposure" argument from schools who want to host the NCAA Tournament, and I just don't think it really gives you any exposure at all. People are conscious of the games. Not who's hosting them. Just my opinion, of course. You get this little itty bitty logo of your school on the floor, and it's in a spot that unless you knew it was there you wouldn't notice it.

[xu82]

Maybe a kick back from the city? The City Of Cincinnati is the one to benefit...hotels, food and entertainment, stores, gas stations, etc. plus exposure.

No kidding! In Orlando this year I first realized how many people attend who don't even have a team in the city. I always assumed it was fans for the teams in town. I met several groups (a couple dozen in each), who just pick a city each year and they've been doing it for decades. Generations of people. Very cool actually. The guys from Wisconsin were wild in the bars, but the group from PA had a bon fire in the hotel parking lot, so you get points for that. They were burning everything they could find to keep it going.... Wood hangers from the room were not safe.

[xu82]

The NCAA Tournament ended less than three weeks ago. Do you even remember half of the locations, or more specifically the schools/conferences that hosted them? Do you know which school hosted the Final Four without looking it up?

I'm not calling you out. Just trying to make a point. I've heard the "exposure" argument from schools who want to host the NCAA Tournament, and I just don't think it really gives you any exposure at all. People are conscious of the games. Not who's hosting them. Just my opinion, of course. You get this little itty bitty logo of your school on the floor, and it's in a spot that unless you knew it was there you wouldn't notice it.

In fairness, I can't name the other cities, but I did learn a lot of cool parts of Orlando. I've been to Orlando A LOT, as we lived a couple hours away for many years. I was mostly there for the parks and the kids AAU hoops. I saw stuff that make me think much more of the city and I'd be more likely to spend a little time there.

But I have ZERO idea who hosted it. UCF? (Shockingly about the second largest school in the country by enrollment.)

[xubrew]

It was UCF and Stetson. The exposure is doing nothing for either one of them.

In this picture, though, you can see the UCF logo!!! It's right there on the baseline next to where it says "THE ROAD TO THE.."!! I guess the Stetson logo was on the other side of the court.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/marchmadness/os-sp-ncaa-tournament-live-updates-20170315-story.html

[X-band '01]

I think UCF and Stetson were co-hosts in Orlando.

[sirthought]

You guys are funny slamming UC like this, as if that was the motivator for them hosting.

It was Cincinnati USA Sports Commission who made the submission. That group is made of lots of people various groups, including the city and, yes, UC, which is invested in the whole region growing economically.

Jackie Reau, an old schoolmate, is one of the top people for the Commission. Her company is Game Day Communications, who help put together Flying Pig, the NCAA hockey bid, and all sorts of other large scale events -- sports and otherwise.

I'm sure UC would want this for the city even if the Bearcats can't play there.

[AviatorX]

You guys are funny slamming UC like this, as if that was the motivator for them hosting.

It was Cincinnati USA Sports Commission who made the submission. That group is made of lots of people various groups, including the city and, yes, UC, which is invested in the whole region growing economically.

Jackie Reau, an old schoolmate, is one of the top people for the Commission. Her company is Game Day Communications, who help put together Flying Pig, the NCAA hockey bid, and all sorts of other large scale events -- sports and otherwise.

I'm sure UC would want this for the city even if the Bearcats can't play there.

I guess, but it's still kinda dumb when there are easy ways to finesse things like this -- see Nova in Philly, Gonzaga in Spokane, etc. UC could have the benefit for the city AND still be in line to play there. I would imagine NKU or Miami could be the host if schools like Stetson are hosting sites.

All that aside, it's still funny that the UC athletics Twitter account is tweeting that they can play there.

[xu82]

Well, it's great exposure for a city and brings in revenue. I hope it doesn't cost the schools much.

[LA Muskie]

There are some pretty serious programs that are on that host list for upcoming tournaments. Maybe UC knows something that hasn't been announced yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smooth]

The NCAA Tournament ended less than three weeks ago. Do you even remember half of the locations, or more specifically the schools/conferences that hosted them? Do you know which school hosted the Final Four without looking it up?

I'm not calling you out. Just trying to make a point. I've heard the "exposure" argument from schools who want to host the NCAA Tournament, and I just don't think it really gives you any exposure at all. People are conscious of the games. Not who's hosting them. Just my opinion, of course. You get this little itty bitty logo of your school on the floor, and it's in a spot that unless you knew it was there you wouldn't notice it.

You are overlooking how great of an experience it is for the students who want to work in the athletic director's office or the front office of a pro team. It would be worth four years of getting up early on Sunday morning to ref floor hockey games. Suddenly you are working at the greatest sporting event in the world (or maybe just a sporting event that is the world's longest commercial for the greatest sporting event in the world). The opportunity to work the NCAA tourney would even make it seem worthwhile to make your name mud by scheduling to same team to play the earliest game every week. Every Freaking Week. Do you know how hard it is to find people to play floor hockey on Sunday morning? No one who was hung over would play so I had to find people who were still drunk. The gym is big but it only takes a couple of guys sweating straight tequila to smell up the whole place.

Sorry, I guess I went off on a rant. That was 1990. I don't carry a grudge. Hell - I can barely remember it.

[X-band '01]

Fox19 -
NCAA Bid Contingent on USBank Arena Being Renovated by 2022 (http://www.fox19.com/story/35182257/officials-ncaa-bid-contingent-on-us-bank-arena-being-renovated-by-2022-march-madness-games)

In other words, this could go up in smoke if the USBank Arena brass can't find a way to get the arena renovated by then. There's virtually no chance they'll get public funding after the Paul Brown Stadium disaster.

[xubrew]

You guys are funny slamming UC like this, as if that was the motivator for them hosting.

It was Cincinnati USA Sports Commission who made the submission. That group is made of lots of people various groups, including the city and, yes, UC, which is invested in the whole region growing economically.

Jackie Reau, an old schoolmate, is one of the top people for the Commission. Her company is Game Day Communications, who help put together Flying Pig, the NCAA hockey bid, and all sorts of other large scale events -- sports and otherwise.

I'm sure UC would want this for the city even if the Bearcats can't play there.

I think it's actually quite hilarious that UC was tweeting out that they were going to be able to play there. I realize that pretty much everyone who actually had anything to do with this decision realizes that UC cannot play there (in fact there is no way they don't know that), and it's just the person who is manning twitter that's confused, but it's still funny, and it looks even funnier because it was the official twitter account.

I mean, we've all done it. I think we've all been wrong about something, and have even argued about something, that was pretty much common knowledge to everyone else. And, we've all probably been slammed for doing it. So, there ya go.

[xu82]

Nashville has the firsts couple rounds next year. The Wisconsin guys in Orlando, doing this for decades, say San Diego and Austin are great, but Nashville is their all-time favorite. Nashville is only 3.5-4 hours from us, and we have a condo their for my son (with an extra bedroom for us). I'm praying X starts their Final Four run their. The South Regional is then here in Atlanta. Could I be that lucky?

[sirthought]

I've heard the "exposure" argument from schools who want to host the NCAA Tournament, and I just don't think it really gives you any exposure at all. People are conscious of the games. Not who's hosting them. Just my opinion, of course. You get this little itty bitty logo of your school on the floor, and it's in a spot that unless you knew it was there you wouldn't notice it.

I think the exposure is worth it. Consider that there are going to be a certain percentage of high school juniors and seniors watching the events on TV who might have UC as school on their list of college considerations. When they see that school is the host of the NCAA tournament, it just might be what pushes them in the direction to apply. Call it pride of being involved with a cool event or whatever, people want to think that they are connecting with bigger things that get talked about nationally...and this does that in a way that's very visible, if only for those students and parents considering options for college.

Heck, just thinking that cool sports stuff like this is happening in Cincinnati opens up ideas for all sorts of sports nuts of thinking about where they want to live, work, or go to school, just to have options like that to enjoy life. It's why living in Cincinnati is so much nicer than Lima or Youngstown or so many other small cities that don't have the cool stuff we have around here.

[xu82]

I think it's far more important for the city than any school.

[drudy23]

I think it's far more important for Xavier to play there, and UC to get shipped to Spokane. Literally, that would be amazing, and so g*d d*mn funny.

[xubrew]

I think the exposure is worth it. Consider that there are going to be a certain percentage of high school juniors and seniors watching the events on TV who might have UC as school on their list of college considerations. When they see that school is the host of the NCAA tournament, it just might be what pushes them in the direction to apply. Call it pride of being involved with a cool event or whatever, people want to think that they are connecting with bigger things that get talked about nationally...and this does that in a way that's very visible, if only for those students and parents considering options for college.

Heck, just thinking that cool sports stuff like this is happening in Cincinnati opens up ideas for all sorts of sports nuts of thinking about where they want to live, work, or go to school, just to have options like that to enjoy life. It's why living in Cincinnati is so much nicer than Lima or Youngstown or so many other small cities that don't have the cool stuff we have around here.

Nobody knows who the host schools are. If I put 100 people in a room that watched every single NCAA Tournament game and asked them to name the sites and the hosts, I'd bet that at least 95 of them would not be able to do it. If I were to put 100 high school juniors and seniors in a room and ask the same question, I bet none of them would be able to do it.

People care about who plays in the NCAA Tournament. Not who hosts it. Almost no one reading this knows that Grand Canyon hosted the Final Four. You know just how few people knew that?? Almost know one who read the previous sentence and that's still reading this now know that Grand Canyon DIDN'T host the Final Four. It was Arizona State. Or, was it? You don't know, and that's my point, and this was the Final Four! If you're not PLAYING, you're not exposed. Hell, XU82 went to he games in Orlando, and he didn't even know who was hosting the thing. The vast majority of the people who went to the game probably didn't know it either.

[xu82]

Fully disclose of my ignorance, I didn't even know there was a host school. Why would I? There's almost no clue! A few markings on the court could be leftovers, but either way go totally unnoticed.

[xubrew]

Fully disclose of my ignorance, I didn't even know there was a host school. Why would I? There's almost no clue! A few markings on the court could be leftovers, but either way go totally unnoticed.

Exactly.

[MADXSTER]

The NCAA Tournament ended less than three weeks ago. Do you even remember half of the locations, or more specifically the schools/conferences that hosted them? Do you know which school hosted the Final Four without looking it up?

I'm not calling you out. Just trying to make a point. I've heard the "exposure" argument from schools who want to host the NCAA Tournament, and I just don't think it really gives you any exposure at all. People are conscious of the games. Not who's hosting them. Just my opinion, of course. You get this little itty bitty logo of your school on the floor, and it's in a spot that unless you knew it was there you wouldn't notice it.

Brew, I wasn't talking about exposure for the schools, it was more for the city. Thus the comment on kick backs and the impact on the local economy

[xu82]

Brew, I wasn't talking about exposure for the schools, it was more for the city. Thus the comment on kick backs and the impact on the local economy

THAT is very real! Tens of thousands of people spending like "vacation dollars" are going out of style. Hotels, restaurants, bars, car rentals, convenience stores, the list goes on and on. Uber guys did pretty well too!

[GoMuskies]

Tens of thousands is an exaggeration other than for the Final Four.

[xu82]

I really don't think so based on my recent experience. The Amway Center in Orlando holds 20,000 I think. And there were an amazing number of people there just for the party experience. So, that would be tens of thousands. And almost all were in hotels and eating out and buying forgotten sunglasses and phone chargers in the stores, and all that other crap that amounts to a huge pile of cash.

[GoMuskies]

Locals fill a not insignificant number of those seats. Particularly with FSU playing there.

[xu82]

Locals fill a not insignificant number of those seats. Particularly with FSU playing there.

FSU doesn't go to home games, but a few showed up for the tournament. XU was able to shout them and that damn tomoahawk chop down! My son spent 5 years there. They had a few, but Tallahassee is not a day trip, especially leaving after a night game. I lived in that area for 18 years. UF is a better argument, but those people filled the hotels too. I saw them. It's about the party as much as the game for many. Not that there were NOT day trippers, as there were, but.....

[GoMuskies]

They don't even need to be day trippers. Florida and FSU fans live in Orlando.

[xu82]

They don't even need to be day trippers. Florida and FSU fans live in Orlando.

They live all over the state, and come in from everywhere. I'm sure there were a few people who lived around Orlando. What is the argument here? The arena holds 20,000, and I said tens of thousands attend. The vast majority comes from out of town. Even when I day tripped from Sarasota for The Run, we spent a fortune on "stuff" while in town. This is getting lost in minutiae.

[GoMuskies]

I just think tens of thousands is an exaggeration. The local presence at these things is significant. Particularly when two of the participants have large fan bases living within 30 minutes of the arena. I'm sure it's a boon for the city. Just probably to the tune of ten of thousands of visitors and not tens of thousands.

[xu82]

I just think tens of thousands is an exaggeration. The local presence at these things is significant. Particularly when two of the participants have large fan bases living within 30 minutes of the arena. I'm sure it's a boon for the city. Just probably to the tune of ten of thousands of visitors and not tens of thousands.

OK, somewhere between ten thousand and twenty thousand? I guarantee you it was much closer to 20,000. I met several groups who were more than several dozen who came just for the party, from other states. A few didn't even have tickets! Didn't even have a team in the race. I'm sure Orlando in late winter gets more of that than Omaha. I didn't know that was a thing, but it was AMAZING! Some had tickets, some were just there for the party.

So, 20,000 would be tens of thousands. And it's close at least. (But admittedly dwindles rapidly as teams lose, but people go early as I did and well.)

[xu82]

One Wisconsin guy said Orlando was nice, but Austin and San Diego were VERY nice. His absolute favorite was Nashville, where we have a condo for our son and grandson (with extra room for us!). Nashville happens to have the first two rounds next year! Atlanta has the south regional, so I'm praying for a miraculous run!

[GoMuskies]

One Wisconsin guy said Orlando was nice, but Austin and San Diego were VERY nice. His absolute favorite was Nashville, where we have a condo for our son and grandson (with extra room for us!). Nashville happens to have the first two rounds next year! Atlanta has the south regional, so I'm praying for a miraculous run!

Have you been drinking today? You made almost the same post 2.5 hours ago. RESPECT on the Tuesday drinking! :)

[xu82]

I just love Nashville, and trying to make a point. And it would be more amazing than my last 2 Orlando runs, I mean, how ridiculous would that be? THAT would be a dream come true!

[xu82]

(I have some tennis late tomorrow morning, but that's about it, so it's all good.)

[xu82]

Still, about 20,000 people in Orlando. I'm not trying to overstate it, just know it's a big deal. The Wisconsin guys always picked warm weather sites (I would have picked where UW was playing!). Buffalo does not do as well, I'm sure.

[XUMIOH12]

anecdotal evidence vs. opinion

seems to be a theme on this board haha

[GoMuskies]

In 2004 when there were no local teams, there weren't 10,000 people in the arena total. Locals, travelers, daytrippers or homeless people sleeping in the concourse.

[xu82]

In 2004 when there were no local teams, there weren't 10,000 people in the arena total. Locals, travelers, daytrippers or homeless people sleeping in the concourse.

That was the O-rena, a dump, and a different time. Church Street Station was not what it is now. This is a much better experience. I'm not discounting the UF/FSU factor, but I personally know many of them, and the ones I know came and spent serious money. Now, were there more of them? Probably. I guess that's why it's regional.

..and we had good seats down low in the corner, but if FELT full. I couldn't swear to attendance.

[GoMuskies]

That was the O-rena, a dump, and a different time. Church Street Station was not what it is now. This is a much better experience.

All things that would tend to make locals more likely to turn out. But doubtful to affect people traveling in from out of town for the NCAA Tournament.

In any event, I've got to go focus on my Jazz's continued ducking against the Clips tonight. :)

[xu82]

All things that would tend to make locals more likely to turn out. But doubtful to affect people traveling in from out of town for the NCAA Tournament.

In any event, I've got to go focus on my Jazz's continued ducking against the Clips tonight. :)

Good luck with you NBA stuff. I had lost most interest before a visit in Charlotte. We promised the kids an NBA game if they were good, and LeBron was in town. About 3 minutes in, my scrappy AAU PG son said "they're not even trying!!". I was off the hook then, and have not attended an NBA game since. (As a kid we had season tix and I loved it, but that was a different time.)

[bobbiemcgee]

That was the O-rena, a dump, and a different time. Church Street Station was not what it is now. This is a much better experience. I'm not discounting the UF/FSU factor, but I personally know many of them, and the ones I know came and spent serious money. Now, were there more of them? Probably. I guess that's why it's regional.

..and we had good seats down low in the corner, but if FELT full. I couldn't swear to attendance.

Actually it was not a dump then, only 15 yrs. old. I went to numerous events there incl. the 04 regional and never had a problem. Church St. was good in the 80- 90's, lots of entertainment every night and big crowds. Rosie's, Cheyenne Saloon and the Dixieland bands. Now just a overpriced beer and pizza stop. Pleasure Island pretty much put them out of business.

And don't get me started on the Orlando Magic franchise. They have made EVERY mistake in the book. Good thing DeVos is a billionaire.

[paulxu]

Why are some sites hosted by a team, some by a conference, and some by both a conference and a team?

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/future-division-i-mens-basketball-championship-sites

[GoMuskies]

In Wichita State's case, they asked the Missouri Valley to co-host because the Valley has experience hosting, and the Wichita athletic department does not. That's going to be a bit awkward now.

[stammina0721]

One Wisconsin guy said Orlando was nice, but Austin and San Diego were VERY nice. His absolute favorite was Nashville, where we have a condo for our son and grandson (with extra room for us!). Nashville happens to have the first two rounds next year! Atlanta has the south regional, so I'm praying for a miraculous run!

You have a condo for your grandson? Damn no wonder kids are spoiled you just give them homes and don't make em earn it lol. I'll just take a student loan payment or 2 lol jk

[xubrew]

Why are some sites hosted by a team, some by a conference, and some by both a conference and a team?

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/future-division-i-mens-basketball-championship-sites

I guess because they can.

[xu82]

You have a condo for your grandson? Damn no wonder kids are spoiled you just give them homes and don't make em earn it lol. I'll just take a student loan payment or 2 lol jk

It's a long, complicated story, but it's a really good one. Trust me, this is a great situation for everyone. No one is getting anything entirely for free.

[xudash]

There is a $200 million catch to that announcement:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/university-of-cincinnati/2017/04/18/us-bank-arena-host-two-rounds-ncaa-tournament-2022/100605412/

[94GRAD]

There is a $200 million catch to that announcement:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/university-of-cincinnati/2017/04/18/us-bank-arena-host-two-rounds-ncaa-tournament-2022/100605412/

Our AD has a solution if that falls through.


https://twitter.com/GC_XUAthletics/status/854526565643931648

[xu82]

There is a $200 million catch to that announcement:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/university-of-cincinnati/2017/04/18/us-bank-arena-host-two-rounds-ncaa-tournament-2022/100605412/

Well, that could be a little $200 million hiccup.

[xu82]

Actually it was not a dump then, only 15 yrs. old. I went to numerous events there incl. the 04 regional and never had a problem. Church St. was good in the 80- 90's, lots of entertainment every night and big crowds. Rosie's, Cheyenne Saloon and the Dixieland bands. Now just a overpriced beer and pizza stop. Pleasure Island pretty much put them out of business.

And don't get me started on the Orlando Magic franchise. They have made EVERY mistake in the book. Good thing DeVos is a billionaire.

It was a dump compared to Amway for sure. I also had some bad experiences there, much like Phillips Arena in Atlanta, due to the design of the place. The O-Rena had very steep steps and rest rooms were very limitied if you were in certain sections. We took my parents one time with the kids and immediately regretted it, so that clouds my opinion. Phillips doesn't have enough leg room for me to comfortably sit (and I'm not a giant), so I walked the entire second half and have never gone back.

[THRILLHOUSE]

US Bank Arena owner claims their plan is to completely tear it down and build a brand new arena. Yeah sure, that'll happen...

http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/us-bank-arena-owner-plan-is-to-tear-down-area-build-new-19k-seat-arena-for-ncaa-tourney

[nuts4xu]

US Bank Arena owner claims their plan is to completely tear it down and build a brand new arena. Yeah sure, that'll happen...

http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/us-bank-arena-owner-plan-is-to-tear-down-area-build-new-19k-seat-arena-for-ncaa-tourney

I have no idea who pays for a new/renovated US Bank, but this city desperately needs a modern arena. The current dump is being spurned on a regular basis by events that would mean a great deal of revenue for city businesses. It is VERY hard to justify the expense of a new venue without a permanent tenant, but I really hope they can make this happen in time to host tourney games in 5 years.

[GoMuskies]

I get that it would be nice to have a modern downtown arena in Cincinnati, but you've already got the Cintas Center, the newly remodeled 5/3 Arena (coming soon) and the relatively new BB&T Arenas in the area. The area is already long arenas.

[Drew]

I have no idea who pays for a new/renovated US Bank, but this city desperately needs a modern arena. The current dump is being spurned on a regular basis by events that would mean a great deal of revenue for city businesses. It is VERY hard to justify the expense of a new venue without a permanent tenant, but I really hope they can make this happen in time to host tourney games in 5 years.

I always thought UC should play downtown. Seemed like a no-brainer with the Banks now, but then I saw they were spending all that money to fix their Shoe dump. So what do I know.

[LA Muskie]

I always thought UC should play downtown. Seemed like a no-brainer with the Banks now, but then I saw they were spending all that money to fix their Shoe dump. So what do I know.
I could see Nederlander and AEG fronting most of the cost, with some limited public funding -- similar to how MSG bought and renovated The Forum in Los Angeles. If they do, given their core competencies, I would expect to see the arena optimized primarily for concerts (again, much like The Forum).

[JTG]

A new arena would probably run $400 million. Without a permanent NBA or NHL tenant that's financial suicide. Lots of money to spend for 6 basketball games 4 years from now.

[LA Muskie]

A new arena would probably run $400 million. Without a permanent NBA or NHL tenant that's financial suicide. Lots of money to spend for 6 basketball games 4 years from now.
The Forum doesn't have any sports at all, and it has no anchor tenant. It is used exclusively as a concert venue. Looks like it's used about 4 times/month, give or take. Granted, it's Los Angeles. I wouldn't say an independent facility is not sustainable, but they would need to be very aggressive on the bookings.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

You don't need a major tenant to have a profitable arena. Not having a tenant to schedule around actually opens up more days for more events. Just look at how building an arena with public money and no major tenant is working out for Kansas City.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article4645824.html

Also that WCPO article headline is pure clickbait. The plan Nederlander wants to do is the same one they announced a couple years ago: a $200-$300 million renovation of US Bank that would basically build a new arena using the current ones structure.

Getting an actual modern day arena would be huge for Cincinnati. We'd get a ton of concerts, acts and events that currently skip over us because of how bad US Bank is. Getting some of the older idiots in this city to vote for it though is a huge issue. Even if they simply raised hotel taxes (aka out of towners would pay for it as opposed to a city wide sales tax increase for the Reds and Bengals stadium) I still doubt the population here would vote for it.

[Juice]

You don't need a major tenant to have a profitable arena. Not having a tenant to schedule around actually opens up more days for more events. Just look at how building an arena with public money and no major tenant is working out for Kansas City.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article4645824.html

Also that WCPO article headline is pure clickbait. The plan Nederlander wants to do is the same one they announced a couple years ago: a $200-$300 million renovation of US Bank that would basically build a new arena using the current ones structure.

Yeah they got to gut the whole damn place considering the suites are all the way at the roof and not at the bottom or mid level like most modern arenas.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Yeah they got to gut the whole damn place considering the suites are all the way at the roof and not at the bottom or mid level like most modern arenas.

Yes and that's still way cheaper then building a brand new one.

[BMoreX]

I have no idea who pays for a new/renovated US Bank, but this city desperately needs a modern arena. The current dump is being spurned on a regular basis by events that would mean a great deal of revenue for city businesses. It is VERY hard to justify the expense of a new venue without a permanent tenant, but I really hope they can make this happen in time to host tourney games in 5 years.

Baltimore is in the same predicament.

[X-band '01]

You don't need a major tenant to have a profitable arena. Not having a tenant to schedule around actually opens up more days for more events. Just look at how building an arena with public money and no major tenant is working out for Kansas City.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article4645824.html

Also that WCPO article headline is pure clickbait. The plan Nederlander wants to do is the same one they announced a couple years ago: a $200-$300 million renovation of US Bank that would basically build a new arena using the current ones structure.

Getting an actual modern day arena would be huge for Cincinnati. We'd get a ton of concerts, acts and events that currently skip over us because of how bad US Bank is. Getting some of the older idiots in this city to vote for it though is a huge issue. Even if they simply raised hotel taxes (aka out of towners would pay for it as opposed to a city wide sales tax increase for the Reds and Bengals stadium) I still doubt the population here would vote for it.

They also raised car-rental taxes in Kansas City - that's something that isn't quite as skewed to out-of-towners as hotel taxes would be.

Even though voters really shouldn't approve another sales tax increase, sales tax rates in Ohio (and the area in general) aren't as high as they are in other parts of the country.

[fellahmuskie]

I hope they can figure it out, but I would vote against using public money. If they do a nice job with the renovations, I think they could easily siphon away major concerts from Louisville and elsewhere and ultimately turn a profit. The location is amazing.

If they do go the public route, I hope it's some sort of deal where the city/county gets a share of revenue and makes some/most of the money back down the road.

One positive factor for Cincy is that a renovated US Bank Arena would be "newer" than comparable facilities in neighboring cities, making it more attractive to concerts and the like. Perhaps being last to the game wouldn't be such a bad thing.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

They also raised car-rental taxes in Kansas City - that's something that isn't quite as skewed to out-of-towners as hotel taxes would be.

Even though voters really shouldn't approve another sales tax increase, sales tax rates in Ohio (and the area in general) aren't as high as they are in other parts of the country.

The only problem with car rental taxes is most of them come from the airport and ours is located in a different state. Our hotel rates and our hotel tax is lower the pretty much all of our competitor cities so raising that would only put us more toward the regional average. I definitely agree with Fella though in that if the city puts up any money they should get a cut of the profits as well. I would think the US Bank owners would be open to that since they operate other venues in that way.

[X-band '01]

That is a fair point, but at the same time I'm talking mostly about a local need for rental cars (not for out-of-towners who also pay extra "facility" fees when they rent from an airport location).

[xu82]

One Wisconsin guy said Orlando was nice, but Austin and San Diego were VERY nice. His absolute favorite was Nashville, where we have a condo for our son and grandson (with extra room for us!). Nashville happens to have the first two rounds next year! Atlanta has the south regional, so I'm praying for a miraculous run!






OK, that time I was kidding. :wave:

[LadyMuskie]

I hope they can figure it out, but I would vote against using public money. If they do a nice job with the renovations, I think they could easily siphon away major concerts from Louisville and elsewhere and ultimately turn a profit. The location is amazing.

If they do go the public route, I hope it's some sort of deal where the city/county gets a share of revenue and makes some/most of the money back down the road.

One positive factor for Cincy is that a renovated US Bank Arena would be "newer" than comparable facilities in neighboring cities, making it more attractive to concerts and the like. Perhaps being last to the game wouldn't be such a bad thing.

I'd vote for public monies to be spent if and only if they gave Hamilton County or City of Cincinnati residents (depending upon who's taxed) a break on tickets, memberships etc. Chicago does this. If you're a Cook County resident you get a lower fare for museums, tickets, etc. It's an inexpensive way to thank the voters and, quite frankly, it's just good PR. You're less likely to get push back when you want that levy renewal.

[drudy23]

Sh*t, if they're going to spend $200M, why not knock the damn thing down and start over? BB&T cost $64M and the YUM center cost $238M. Why not just tear it down and land somewhere in between?

[XU 87]

My top secret sources tell me that US Bank owners are threatening to simply tear down the arena and then develop the land for some other use unless city/county agree to help pay for construction of a new arena.

[xubrew]

My top secret sources tell me that US Bank owners are threatening to simply tear down the arena and then develop the land for some other use unless city/county agree to help pay for construction of a new arena.

Wouldn't simply tearing down the arena be considered an upgrade?

[Cheesehead]

Wouldn't simply tearing down the arena be considered an upgrade?

Yes, yes it would.

[XUGRAD80]

They can threaten that, but it might not really mean anything. With the location they have along the riverfront there are all kinds of environmental concerns AND regulations by various governmental bodies that would come into play with ANY new construction. That would certainly make it much harder to tear down and build new from scratch. Since I don't live in Cincinnati, I don't really have dog in the fight when it comes to taxes and public money being used. From what I understand the "renovation" of the arena would be basically keeping the footprint of the current facility but with everything else being new....thus the 200 million dollars being spent v 80-90 million like 5/3 arena. I hope they find a way to do it.

[xu95]

You don't need a major tenant to have a profitable arena. Not having a tenant to schedule around actually opens up more days for more events. Just look at how building an arena with public money and no major tenant is working out for Kansas City.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article4645824.html

Also that WCPO article headline is pure clickbait. The plan Nederlander wants to do is the same one they announced a couple years ago: a $200-$300 million renovation of US Bank that would basically build a new arena using the current ones structure.

Getting an actual modern day arena would be huge for Cincinnati. We'd get a ton of concerts, acts and events that currently skip over us because of how bad US Bank is. Getting some of the older idiots in this city to vote for it though is a huge issue. Even if they simply raised hotel taxes (aka out of towners would pay for it as opposed to a city wide sales tax increase for the Reds and Bengals stadium) I still doubt the population here would vote for it.

I love the Sprint Center. It seems like I am there all the time. It is also in the Power and Light District which is a great restraurant/bar area. Very similar to the Banks.

Sprint Center always has events. I agree a permanent tenant might be more of a hinderance than a benefit.

Who in Cincinnati wouldn't love to go out to dinner at the Yard House or Ruths Chris and then walk down the street to see a concert. it would be great for the city.

Make it happen already.

[Caveat]

I have no idea who pays for a new/renovated US Bank, but this city desperately needs a modern arena. The current dump is being spurned on a regular basis by events that would mean a great deal of revenue for city businesses. It is VERY hard to justify the expense of a new venue without a permanent tenant, but I really hope they can make this happen in time to host tourney games in 5 years.

There simply aren't enough things that can fill a modern arena in a town with no NBA/NHL to justify the cost.

If the revenue opportunities were so great, they'd have no problem finding someone to privately build a new arena. The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.

[xumuskies08]

There simply aren't enough things that can fill a modern arena in a town with no NBA/NHL to justify the cost.

If the revenue opportunities were so great, they'd have no problem finding someone to privately build a new arena. The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.

Sprint Center in KC is literally one of the busiest arenas (4th busiest to be precise. http://www.sprintcenter.com/news/detail/sprint-center-recognized-as-americas-fourth-busiest-arena) in the country and they have no tenants.

There are several cities that have modern arenas and no tenants. If they can do it, why Can't Cincinnati?

[X-band '01]

It's been almost 35 years since their last pro sports tenant - the Kansas City Kings.

However, I do think another thing in play for KC is that the nearest major cities are much further away (i.e. St. Louis, Omaha, Wichita) than there would be in Cincinnati. In other words, not as much competition as there is in this area for concerts, events and the like.

[Caveat]

Sprint Center in KC is literally one of the busiest arenas (4th busiest to be precise. http://www.sprintcenter.com/news/detail/sprint-center-recognized-as-americas-fourth-busiest-arena) in the country and they have no tenants.

There are several cities that have modern arenas and no tenants. If they can do it, why Can't Cincinnati?

Because we're already paying off two publicly financed sports facilities?

Because if it made such good business sense to build a modern arena, there would be no shortage of people looking to build one and reap the profits from said venture?

Because, as X-Band said, we're surrounded by other modern facilities (Nationwide, Bankers Life, Yum Center) all ~2 hours away that are competing for events?

[XUMIOH12]

Because we're already paying off two publicly financed sports facilities?

Because if it made such good business sense to build a modern arena, there would be no shortage of people looking to build one and reap the profits from said venture?

Because, as X-Band said, we're surrounded by other modern facilities (Nationwide, Bankers Life, Yum Center) all ~2 hours away that are competing for events?

I don't think he was referring to how it should be financed; just saying that having a modern stadium with no major tenants is a viable option.

[LA Muskie]

A common myth of arena financing is that if it's a worthwhile venture then the operator should pay for the capital expenses itself. That's an overly simplistic notion that fails to adequately take into account the significant public free rider problem that differentiates it from most other business ventures. Look around the country at urban rehabilitation projects. You'd be hard pressed to find one that didn't have an entertainment venue of some sort at its hub.

[GoMuskies]

A common myth of arena financing is that if it's a worthwhile venture then the operator should pay for the capital expenses itself. That's an overly simplistic notion that fails to adequately take into account the significant public free rider problem that differentiates it from most other business ventures. Look around the country at urban rehabilitation projects. You'd be hard pressed to find one that didn't have an entertainment venue of some sort at its hub.

I don't think it really differentiates it from other business ventures. There is plenty of "free ride" for the public with any successful business venture (jobs, business catering to employees and others who visit/are attracted to said business venture). There may be a difference in scale (depending on the scope of the other business venture, too), but it is fundamentally no different. Which is, of course, why cities compete to give subsidies to companies who don't really "need" them for their already likely to be successful business ventures or expansions.

[LA Muskie]

I don't think it really differentiates it from other business ventures. There is plenty of "free ride" for the public with any successful business venture (jobs, business catering to employees and others who visit/are attracted to said business venture). There may be a difference in scale (depending on the scope of the other business venture, too), but it is fundamentally no different. Which is, of course, why cities compete to give subsidies to companies who don't really "need" them for their already likely to be successful business ventures or expansions.
That may be a better way of putting it. Manufacturers often get significant tax subsidies to build factories and move operations into locales. Public-assisted financing of sports/entertainment venues are of the same ilk. I think it's fair to question the degree to which the public should participate. But I think the "no participation" side is a reactionary swing of the pendulum too far to the opposite direction.

[paulxu]

Streetcar!

Oops, wrong thread.

[xumuskies08]

I don't think he was referring to how it should be financed; just saying that having a modern stadium with no major tenants is a viable option.

Exactly. It has been proven to work. Does that mean it will work? Who knows. But it can work.

Public funding is a totally different argument.

[xumuskies08]

That may be a better way of putting it. Manufacturers often get significant tax subsidies to build factories and move operations into locales. Public-assisted financing of sports/entertainment venues are of the same ilk. I think it's fair to question the degree to which the public should participate. But I think the "no participation" side is a reactionary swing of the pendulum too far to the opposite direction.

Agree. It's not an all or nothing question in my mind, but more of a how much.

[XUGRAD80]

Since I live in NOKY, there is little or no chance that I would pay any significant amount of tax money to finance a new arena in Ohio. But having said that, I don't see why anyone should be taxed so that a business with a net worth of around 12 BILLION dollars would get any financial aid to build a facility that cost them 300-400 MILLION dollars. It's not like they couldn't borrow the money themselves, is it? Neither the county or the city has any extra money to spend and it's going to be damn near impossible to get any additional taxes passed IMO, so I think it's a moot point anyway.

[bjf123]

I agree that the teams should be able to build their own stadiums / arenas and not need the taxpayers to foot the bill. There are other kinds of incentives localities can give. Unfortunately, as soon as one city or county says they'll build it, everyone else is forced to compete with that or risk losing the team.

I'd love to see a requirement that if the taxpayers build the facility, the franchise must open their books to the public. Of course, the leagues will never let that happen. Can't have a team claiming they can't afford to pay rent and maintenance when their financials show they're making millions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

It's also possible that renovations are in order for USBank Arena by 2022 - that also could have been a condition for hosting.

That ain't happening.


A friend of mine emailed me saying that UC was too dumb to realize that they weren't allowed to play at US Bank. I just thought he was joking.

Holy shit that's hilarious!! They ACTUALLY thought they were allowed to play at US Bank.

Well, now they're stuck doing all of the event management for free, and not getting to travel with their own team if they make the tournament. WELL DONE UC!!!

I forgot about that gem from UC.


They also raised car-rental taxes in Kansas City - that's something that isn't quite as skewed to out-of-towners as hotel taxes would be.

Even though voters really shouldn't approve another sales tax increase, sales tax rates in Ohio (and the area in general) aren't as high as they are in other parts of the country.


I love the Sprint Center. It seems like I am there all the time. It is also in the Power and Light District which is a great restraurant/bar area. Very similar to the Banks.

Sprint Center always has events. I agree a permanent tenant might be more of a hinderance than a benefit.

Who in Cincinnati wouldn't love to go out to dinner at the Yard House or Ruths Chris and then walk down the street to see a concert. it would be great for the city.

Make it happen already.


I agree that the teams should be able to build their own stadiums / arenas and not need the taxpayers to foot the bill. There are other kinds of incentives localities can give. Unfortunately, as soon as one city or county says they'll build it, everyone else is forced to compete with that or risk losing the team.

I'd love to see a requirement that if the taxpayers build the facility, the franchise must open their books to the public. Of course, the leagues will never let that happen. Can't have a team claiming they can't afford to pay rent and maintenance when their financials show they're making millions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But no, the folks who owned the arena thought that NCAA 1st/2nd round games would convince the local taxpayers to finance the arena themselves. Instead, votes raised middle fingers with both hands. At least the games are going to Indy instead. It's not Dayton and that is a win-win.

[Caveat]

They should honestly just tear down US Bank or whatever it’s called these days.

Put the real estate to better use.

[noteggs]

Looks like the Orlando Invitational will be staying in Orlando (no fans l would assume). Seems 7 other early season tournaments are moving there as well.

Edit: wrong thread. Thought I was in Orlando Invitational.