2017 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[nuts4xu]

Now that the tear down is mostly complete, I'm looking forward to watching these kids develop. I loved the outing from Finnegan last night. The pinch hit HR from Lorenzen was a thing of beauty today. Cozart ans Duvall are smoking the ball right now.

The Phillies are not good, but it's nice to win the first series. We have a tough schedule the next few weeks, need to beat teams like the Phillies if we want to stay relevant past Easter.

We are on pace to win 107 games, this could be our year!

[bobbiemcgee]

Was watching the game on TV today. Looked like crowd was in the 100's!

[94GRAD]

Was watching the game on TV today. Looked like crowd was in the 100's!

I didn't use my 4 front row outfield seats today. 40 degrees and rainy is not conducive to a great ballpark experience.

[XUMIOH12]

Was watching the game on TV today. Looked like crowd was in the 100's!

you really think it was in the hundreds? I was thinking it was in the dozens! haha

[GIMMFD]

Over/Under 70 wins, what do you guys think?

[nuts4xu]

Over/Under 70 wins, what do you guys think?

They are on pace for 107 wins, you set that bar pretty low....

[GoMuskies]

Over/Under 70 wins, what do you guys think?

Under. Comfortably

[bjf123]

I'll go over, barely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Emp]

I'm watching Opening Day from up 75, it looked like 20% of he seats were empty. Further signs of the Apocalypse?

[Juice]

I'm watching Opening Day from up 75, it looked like 20% of he seats were empty. Further signs of the Apocalypse?

They broke an attendance record on Opening Day.

[bleedXblue]

3-1 is fools gold. Their staring pitching/rotation right now is in need of Desclafani and Bailey in a big way.

I like the bullpen and think that if they can hit a little better than last year they could win 75-80 games. A repeat of last year by Duval would be huge. Joey being more consistent this year is a also huge. A better first two months is critical in order for them not to get way behind early.

[XU 87]

They are on pace for 107 wins, you set that bar pretty low....

Not anymore. Reds are now on pace to win 121.5 games.

[GetUp5]

3-1 is fools gold. Their staring pitching/rotation right now is in need of Desclafani and Bailey in a big way.

I like the bullpen and think that if they can hit a little better than last year they could win 75-80 games. A repeat of last year by Duval would be huge. Joey being more consistent this year is a also huge. A better first two months is critical in order for them not to get way behind early.

Joey Votto is just about the most consistent player in baseball. And the best hitter the Reds will have in my lifetime.

I'm sure you'll respond with how bad his 1st half was last year and completely disregard the historically good 2nd half he had.

Only Cincinnati fans could whine about Joey Votto. It's legitimately mind boggling.

[Juice]

It's almost as if Bronson sucks now and maybe we should give the young guys who are in the bullpen, i.e. Stephenson, a chance to start at the major league level.

[bleedXblue]

Joey Votto is just about the most consistent player in baseball. And the best hitter the Reds will have in my lifetime.

I'm sure you'll respond with how bad his 1st half was last year and completely disregard the historically good 2nd half he had.

Only Cincinnati fans could whine about Joey Votto. It's legitimately mind boggling.

Lighten up there big fella. I simply said he struggled early last year. He's so important to this team and their margin for error is razor thin.

[GetUp5]

Lighten up there big fella. I simply said he struggled early last year. He's so important to this team and their margin for error is razor thin.

There's not really a margin for error. They aren't going to compete this season.

My point is that Reds fans love to point the finger at Votto and spout off with the "He's overpaid, you can't rebuild with a guy making $20M" BS.

[XU 87]

There's not really a margin for error. They aren't going to compete this season.

My point is that Reds fans love to point the finger at Votto and spout off with the "He's overpaid, you can't rebuild with a guy making $20M" BS.

I agree he's not overpaid. I also agree that he's a great hitter, including his ability to get on base.

That said, and based on where this team is right now, I would prefer if he could be traded and his salary used for other, multiple, and younger players.

And the Reds are on pace to win 97 games this year. "So there's a chance?"

[Juice]

I agree he's not overpaid. I also agree that he's a great hitter, including his ability to get on base.

That said, and based on where this team is right now, I would prefer if he could be traded and his salary used for other, multiple, and younger players.

And the Reds are on pace to win 97 games this year. "So there's a chance?"

The Reds had the highest payroll in the NL Central a few years ago. If they can actually do this rebuild correctly then in a few years they can make another run with Votto still being a useful player. The best part of Votto is that his skills set up well to still be there as he gets older.

Young players have pretty controlled salaries on their rookie wage scale and then they're in arbitration which also suppress wages. What is killing the Reds is dead money in Homer and Mesoraco. If they can actually see the field then it's a different story. The Reds can afford to be competitive, not outspend, but spend competitively with the rest of the division. They just can't afford to hand out big contracts to guys who don't see the field. The margin for error isn't there like it is for the Cubs or Cardinals.

[MauriceX]

Joey Votto is just about the most consistent player in baseball. And the best hitter the Reds will have in my lifetime.

I'm sure you'll respond with how bad his 1st half was last year and completely disregard the historically good 2nd half he had.

Only Cincinnati fans could whine about Joey Votto. It's legitimately mind boggling.

I'm one of Votto's biggest supporters, and I think if the Reds were better, he'd be consistently called an "all-time great" by the sports media. I hope he stays on the team and helps us rebuild. But you gotta admit, he was not consistent last year. The fact that you split his season into two halves is evidence of that. In the second half, when Votto was amazing, the Reds had one of the best records in baseball. If we get a consistent Votto, who can give us high level production all season, this team could actually turn a corner this year. I'm not even saying we would make the playoffs, just that, at some point, we gotta start getting better instead of getting worse.

[Juice]

I'm one of Votto's biggest supporters, and I think if the Reds were better, he'd be consistently called an "all-time great" by the sports media. I hope he stays on the team and helps us rebuild. But you gotta admit, he was not consistent last year. The fact that you split his season into two halves is evidence of that. In the second half, when Votto was amazing, the Reds had one of the best records in baseball. If we get a consistent Votto, who can give us high level production all season, this team could actually turn a corner this year. I'm not even saying we would make the playoffs, just that, at some point, we gotta start getting better instead of getting worse.

His "inconsistency" last year was completely overstated. He had one bad month, one above average month, and 4 insanely good months. People actually need to look at this shit before they run with narratives.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=vottojo01&year=2016&t=b

[XU 87]

His "inconsistency" last year was completely overstated. He had one bad month, one above average month, and 4 insanely good months. People actually need to look at this shit before they run with narratives.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=vottojo01&year=2016&t=b

I suspect that every good player goes through some slumps throughout the season. That's why players don't hit .500.

[STL_XUfan]

Reds couldn't be bothered to broadcast today's game. How is that even possible in 2017?

[bleedXblue]

Reds couldn't be bothered to broadcast today's game. How is that even possible in 2017?

On a Sunday? Mind boggling that Fox doesn't have it on

[94GRAD]

Reds couldn't be bothered to broadcast today's game. How is that even possible in 2017?


On a Sunday? Mind boggling that Fox doesn't have it on

I'm sure The Masters has something to do with that decision.

[SM#24]

Not sure what the Masters has to do with it.

[MauriceX]

His "inconsistency" last year was completely overstated. He had one bad month, one above average month, and 4 insanely good months. People actually need to look at this shit before they run with narratives.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=vottojo01&year=2016&t=b

I actually did look at this shit and it proves my point perfectly...

April 4 - June 11 - .226/.352/.434 and OPS of 0.786
June 12 - Oct 2 - .387/.485/.622 and OPS of 1.107

For comparison, Zack Cozart's stats from last year - .252/.308/.425 and an OPS of 0.732.

You can't just throw out the results of 62 games in a season and call it "overstated." I'm not trying to detract from Votto, but hitting at the same level as Cozart for 62 games is not good.

[Juice]

I actually did look at this shit and it proves my point perfectly...

April 4 - June 11 - .226/.352/.434 and OPS of 0.786
June 12 - Oct 2 - .387/.485/.622 and OPS of 1.107

For comparison, Zack Cozart's stats from last year - .252/.308/.425 and an OPS of 0.732.

You can't just throw out the results of 62 games in a season and call it "overstated." I'm not trying to detract from Votto, but hitting at the same level as Cozart for 62 games is not good.

Guy, I linked his month by month splits already. His April was horrible. In May his OPS was over .800 which I called above average (in comparison to normal players but not Votto) and then he was on fire every other month. One month he played poorly. One other month he played below average for him but still fine in the grand scheme of things.

In over 2/3 of his ABs he was OPSing over 1.000.

[bleedXblue]

Geesh, Votto didn't have a good start to the year in 2016. Why anyone would try and counter that is amazing? He had an incredible overall year. This franchise cant win consistently when he doesn't play well. No one is blaming him for anything. Its just the current state of things. Votto is a stud. Period. No one is debating that.

[X-band '01]

Reds couldn't be bothered to broadcast today's game. How is that even possible in 2017?


I'm sure The Masters has something to do with that decision.

That's probably why they had the Reds-Phillies Thursday game on TV instead. Usually day games get blacked out and Sunday games in September get the same treatment when the NFL is on.

[GetUp5]

Geesh, Votto didn't have a good start to the year in 2016. Why anyone would try and counter that is amazing? He had an incredible overall year. This franchise cant win consistently when he doesn't play well. No one is blaming him for anything. Its just the current state of things. Votto is a stud. Period. No one is debating that.

I think the point is that Votto had ANOTHER insanely good season. "Votto needs to be more consistent" is down at about priority #600 for the Reds. There are hundreds of more pressing issues than Votto's consistency.

He had a bad first month, yep. You could pick out any sample of any player in baseball and create an "inconsistency" narrative.

[Muskie in dayton]

I actually did look at this shit and it proves my point perfectly...

April 4 - June 11 - .226/.352/.434 and OPS of 0.786
June 12 - Oct 2 - .387/.485/.622 and OPS of 1.107

For comparison, Zack Cozart's stats from last year - .252/.308/.425 and an OPS of 0.732.

You can't just throw out the results of 62 games in a season and call it "overstated." I'm not trying to detract from Votto, but hitting at the same level as Cozart for 62 games is not good.

Miguel Cabrera's statistics from April 4 - April 8: .000 average with 6 strikeouts.

For comparison, my stats in that same period - .000 with 0 strikeouts.

I'm not trying to detract from Miggy, but hitting at the same level as me with 6 more strikeouts over 4 games is just not good.

[GetUp5]

Miguel Cabrera's statistics from April 4 - April 8: .000 average with 6 strikeouts.

For comparison, my stats in that same period - .000 with 0 strikeouts.

I'm not trying to detract from Miggy, but hitting at the same level as me with 6 more strikeouts over 4 games is just not good.

Tigers would be way better if Miguel Cabrera would be more consistent.

[paulxu]

Getting a late start to the season.
Need to get off on a good note.
So...suck it Cardinals.

[X-band '01]

Weird how it too almost 2 hours to play the first 4 innings tonight (thanks to both starters having control issues) - yet as I change the channel to watch the Cubs' World Series banner ceremony, they suddenly were in the top of the 8th inning.

[paulxu]

I'm not up on all the stat stuff you guys are talking about with Votto, but this article was in SI a couple weeks ago:


A rudimentary but effective way to assess the quality of a hitter is through evaluation of his slash line. One of the slashiest: Reds first baseman Joey Votto has a career batting average of .313, a career on-base percentage of .425 and a career slugging percentage of .536. Only five players in baseball history have done as well or better in all three categories. Their names are Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Foxx and Hornsby.

That seems pretty good.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/04/06/joey-votto-cincinnati-reds

[GoMuskies]

7-2 is a nice start. The +25 differential shows that the Reds are absolutely on fire. Surprising.

[nuts4xu]

7-2 is a nice start. The +25 differential shows that the Reds are absolutely on fire. Surprising.

On pace for 126 wins, which would shatter the old team record!

[BENWAR]

On pace for 126 wins, which would shatter the old team record!

Enjoying the ride while I can!

[GIMMFD]

I think you guys are right, I think I set the bar a little low... surprising start, but definitely much welcomed!

[xavierj]

Dating back to last year, Reds are 43-38 last 81 games. Also 7-2 this year with top 2 starters and starting catcher on the DL.

[GoMuskies]

If they can coax a win out of Bronson Arroyo tonight, I'm booking flights for the World Series.

[GIMMFD]

Dating back to last year, Reds are 43-38 last 81 games. Also 7-2 this year with top 2 starters and starting catcher on the DL.

Well that Amir Garrett guy apparently has been a pleasant surprise as a rookie in his first 2 starts, I only caught a little of his second, but he looks like he could be a strong lefty for the Reds, Votto is Votto, and I think all around it's just been some decent baseball. Optimistic start for sure.

[drudy23]

If they can coax a win out of Bronson Arroyo tonight, I'm booking flights for the World Series.

Does Bronson make it to June?

[Juice]

Does Bronson make it to June?

He might not make it until Sunday. Sal Romano's start date matches up.

[GoMuskies]

Does Bronson make it to June?

Bronson should get to choose between Louisville and retirement tonight.

[Juice]

Good article on the Reds' bullpen http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-real-home-of-the-bullpen-revolution-is-cincinnati/

[Juice]

He might not make it until Sunday. Sal Romano's start date matches up.

http://redsminorleagues.com/2017/04/14/sal-romano-start-sunday-reds/

[paulxu]

Cincinnati Reds starting pitcher Brandon Finnegan was placed on the 10-day disabled list with a strained left trapezius muscle on Sunday.

He is the fourth Reds starting pitcher to be placed on the disabled list this season, joining right-hander Anthony DeSclafani (60-day DL with strained UCL), right-hander Rookie Davis (10-day DL with bruised right forearm) and right-hander Homer Bailey (60-day DL after elbow surgery).

Some guys are going to get more PT.

[GoMuskies]

This weekend was an enormous wasted opportunity. The Reds should be 3 or 4 games up in the division. Oh, well, I'm going to enjoy the Reds being in first for however short a time it lasts.

Definitely enjoyed the lowly Pirates sweeping the Cubs in Wrigley. And St. Louis sucking ain't a bad thing.

[GetUp5]

The Brewers have actually done a pretty decent job rebuilding and should be pretty good this year. Eric Thames looks like the real deal. He's going to be a steal at 3 years (plus a club option) for $15M.

[Juice]

This is an international signing to watch for Reds fans

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/225593268/favorites-to-sign-cuban-outfielder-luis-robert/?topicid=151437456

[paulxu]

Would never have guessed that Daugherty knew one damn thing about beach music.

[bleedXblue]

Top of the Reds lineup is struggling. Yet, we have Cozart in the 7 hole hitting .370

In watching Hamilton, I honestly don't think the guy will ever hit enough. Add to that, he doesn't have very much plate discipline and you have a guy who isn't ever going to get on base enough to be a solid leadoff guy.

[gladdenguy]

RIP 2017 Cincinnati. It was a fun couple weeks. This city and its sports teams blow donkey balls.

[drudy23]

RIP 2017 Cincinnati. It was a fun couple weeks. This city and its sports teams blow donkey balls.

LOL...was thinking the same thing after that inning.

Wake me up in early November.

[Juice]

Marty is losing it

Steve Mancuso‏
@spmancuso
Marty Brennaman says key to game is hitting with two outs, as if that's a distinct skill. As meaningful to say key is hitting on Tuesday.

Chris Garber‏ @cgarber8 47m47 minutes ago
Chris Garber
The 2016 Cubs ranked dead last in MLB in AVG w/ 2 outs. I'm not lying.

[paulxu]

The Reds aren't doing very well.

[paulxu]

I know we aren't doing well.
But...Votto hit a game winning single.
So, suck it Cards.

[bleedXblue]

Well, must give the Reds props for being in 1st Place....and its May 8th!

[nuts4xu]

Well, must give the Reds props for being in 1st Place....and its May 8th!

On pace to 89 wins right now! I'll take that from this rag tag bunch!

[muskiefan82]

If they played San Francisco all the time, they could be champions.

[bjf123]

Well, must give the Reds props for being in 1st Place....and its May 8th!

Agree. I never would have expected this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bleedXblue]

On pace to 89 wins right now! I'll take that from this rag tag bunch!

Actually I think Votto, Peraza, Suarez and Duvall make for a nice core group of guys. IF Hamilton could ever become a more consistent lead off guy, this team could really have something brewing.

[XU 87]

Actually I think Votto, Peraza, Suarez and Duvall make for a nice core group of guys. IF Hamilton could ever become a more consistent lead off guy, this team could really have something brewing.

The one thing the announcers were saying about Hamilton is that in the last week or so he's been working the count, which is something he needs to do to be successful. If he gets up there and is a free swinger, he's gong to hit .240 with a .280 OBP.

[bleedXblue]

Man the Reds just shit the bed the last 5 games. Absolute batting practice today against Garrett. Is it me or do the Reds have a problem developing good young pitchers? Seems there are way more guys struggling and not developing than there should be.

[GoMuskies]

The Reds suck

[bobbiemcgee]

Your 1st Place Rockies coming to town. Don't want to jinx them but it would appear they have some pitching this year.

[bleedXblue]

I have no faith in this ownership, the GM and any coach currently on staff. Castellini ownership has largely been one big disappointment.

[Juice]

Man the Reds just shit the bed the last 5 games. Absolute batting practice today against Garrett. Is it me or do the Reds have a problem developing good young pitchers? Seems there are way more guys struggling and not developing than there should be.

They turn everyone into a god damn reliever. Lorenzen? First round pick. Stephenson? First round pick. Both relievers. Iglesias, not a draft pick but a big money international signing, is a reliever. Or they get injured a lot...Travieso. Also, the Nick Howard pick was the dumbest god damn first round pick I've seen in awhile.

Garrett will be fine. He probably shouldn't have been up this early in the season. Injuries to vets forced him into the rotation. Although he's 25, he's short in actual experience because he messed around with basketball too much.

[Juice]

I have no faith in this ownership, the GM and any coach currently on staff. Castellini ownership has largely been one big disappointment.

I think Dick Williams is better than Jocketty was at the end. But God damn, Castellini f*cked this rebuild when he wouldn't go all in on it and wanted to field a "competitive" team with some old, big money veterans on the rosters. The growing pains with the young guys should have began last season and not this year. Look at how the Cubs and the Astros rebuilt. They went to the absolute bottom. They didn't half ass it.

[paulxu]

Glad to see the Reds rally to take one.
But those camo shirts are buck ugly.

[bleedXblue]

The Reds organization has no idea how to mentor, coach and harness the talent of their young pitching prospects. It is beyond frustrating. You cant tell me that some of these guys don't have the ability to improve and make an impact beyond burying them in the bullpen.

[Juice]

The Reds organization has no idea how to mentor, coach and harness the talent of their young pitching prospects. It is beyond frustrating. You cant tell me that some of these guys don't have the ability to improve and make an impact beyond burying them in the bullpen.

Why they take one of their top prospects in Stephenson, push him in the pen, and then use him once every 5 days is infuriating.

[paulxu]

This Gennett guy is having a good night.

Suck it Cardinals.

[bobbiemcgee]

Scooter - 4 HR's 5/5 17 total bases 10 rbi - claimed on waivers

[Juice]

The Reds signed a nice Cuban prospect today for $5 mill (with a $5 mill penalty)

http://redsminorleagues.com/2017/06/06/cuban-jose-israel-garcia/

[X-ceptional]

Today, we are all Scooter.

#ScootScoot

[paulxu]

Reds win! Hah.

[xavierj]

Raisel Igaises is 100% on saves, has pitched more innings than any closer and has a 0.59 era. No one is even close to him. Guy is unreal.

[X-ceptional]

How about MLB WAR leader Zack "Cozy" Cozart as well?

This season has been very different than what I expected.

[SM#24]

Is the Reds game not televised locally today ??
I didn't think there was anyone left that didn't televise all their games, in any major league sport for that matter.

[STL_XUfan]

Is the Reds game not televised locally today ??
I didn't think there was anyone left that didn't televise all their games, in any major league sport for that matter.

There are several games this year they are not televising (including a Sunday day game).

Further, as an MLB.tv subscriber it pisses me off that the FSMW broadcast is still blacked out regardless of the fact that the local market isn't showing it.

[GoMuskies]

There are several games this year they are not televising (including a Sunday day game).

Further, as an MLB.tv subscriber it pisses me off that the FSMW broadcast is still blacked out regardless of the fact that the local market isn't showing it.

Seems they were doing you a favor.

[bleedXblue]

sweep the cards.....what a great feeling to kick their ass

[GoMuskies]

Reds are only a 1.5 out of "real" first place (the Cubs)!

[paulxu]

My buddy says you have to be at least at .500 at the break to be in the post-season.
Still time.

[GoMuskies]

My buddy says you have to be at least at .500 at the break to be in the post-season.
Still time.


I've got $20 on the Reds at 250-1 to win the World Series. It may be time to invest in a safe deposit box!

[waggy]

I've got $20 on the Reds at 250-1 to win the World Series. It may be time to invest in a safe deposit box!

Nice.

[Snipe]

A four game sweep of the Cards is one thing I never expected. This Reds team is the most fun team to watch in MLB. We give up lots of runs, and we score lots of runs. We come back from big leads, and we blow big leads. If I was a neutral fan just wanting to watch a game, I would watch the Reds, because something is gonna happen.

I have to say I love this team so far. I am surprised at how potent the offense is. We are a third of the season in, and I think it is a huge victory that the team is still in play. I don't expect that they will sell that many more tickets though, because our fans don't come to the games like other cities. And if fans don't come to the games, you don't have the bank to keep people like Cozart. And when you have to give Zack away, you are just a minor league team that is keeping up appearances to act like a big league club.

[Juice]

A four game sweep of the Cards is one thing I never expected. This Reds team is the most fun team to watch in MLB. We give up lots of runs, and we score lots of runs. We come back from big leads, and we blow big leads. If I was a neutral fan just wanting to watch a game, I would watch the Reds, because something is gonna happen.

I have to say I love this team so far. I am surprised at how potent the offense is. We are a third of the season in, and I think it is a huge victory that the team is still in play. I don't expect that they will sell that many more tickets though, because our fans don't come to the games like other cities. And if fans don't come to the games, you don't have the bank to keep people like Cozart. And when you have to give Zack away, you are just a minor league team that is keeping up appearances to act like a big league club.

I love Cozart. He's the best SS the Reds have had since Larkin but you don't sign contracts to middle infielders after the age of 30. Cozart is 31 which is going to be ancient soon for a SS. You trade him for a decent prospect or two and hope for the best. His contract would end up being the Phillips or late Barry Larkin situation.

[bleedXblue]

I love Cozart. He's the best SS the Reds have had since Larkin but you don't sign contracts to middle infielders after the age of 30. Cozart is 31 which is going to be ancient soon for a SS. You trade him for a decent prospect or two and hope for the best. His contract would end up being the Phillips or late Barry Larkin situation.

Agreed on Cozart unless you could somehow figure out a 2 year deal to keep him.

[paulxu]

you are just a minor league team that is keeping up appearances to act like a big league club.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0RTD7250II

[Porkopolis]

I don't expect that they will sell that many more tickets though, because our fans don't come to the games like other cities. And if fans don't come to the games, you don't have the bank to keep people like Cozart.

The Reds certainly have the money to keep Cozart, it just isn't wise to do so unless he will sign a short term deal. Anything more than two years and they'll be paying Pappy Van Winkle prices for Ancient Age quality.

As for attendance, it is a relatively small piece of the financial pie for MLB teams. The big money comes from MLB Advanced Media, merchandising royalties, advertising, and broadcasting rights. Attendance is much less important in baseball than other sports. That isn't to say it isn't important; if the Reds are still averaging under 20K when they start consistently winning it will point to a fan interest problem that will affect the sweet, sweet gravy train mentioned above.

Edit: Season Ticket sales are crucial. They, along with ratings, drive the rates you can charge for advertising and broadcast rights.

[GoMuskies]

I'm looking forward to Louisville's Brendan McKay becoming a Red tonight in the draft.

[XU 87]

I love Cozart. He's the best SS the Reds have had since Larkin but you don't sign contracts to middle infielders after the age of 30.

I wouldn't go that far. Larkin has some of his best years from ages 30-35. It was the three year $27 million contract that he signed when he was 36 that turned into the disaster. Joe Morgan had his MVP years when he 32 and 33.

I will add that Cozart is having a career year. I think it's risky to give big contracts based on one career year.

[Juice]

I wouldn't go that far. Larkin has some of his best years from ages 30-35. It was the three year $27 million contract that he signed when he was 36 that turned into the disaster. Joe Morgan had his MVP years when he 32 and 33.

I will add that Cozart is having a career year. I think it's risky to give big contracts based on one career year.

Both of those men are Hall of Famers. Cozart is not nor does he have the track record of them. You don't give sign contracts to middle inflieders on the wrong side of 30 or you end up with the Phillips situation all over again.

[X-ceptional]

Uh, guys...........

http://i.imgur.com/1tPytpz.gif

[GoMuskies]

The worst part of this video? The fact that the fossil formerly known as Bronson Arroyo was pitching.

[paulxu]

Maybe this Hunter Green guy will catch those pop-ups.

[Emp]

#14 basking in glory. In the stadium he placed so many bets. The only glory on the day.

[bigdiggins]

#14 basking in glory. In the stadium he placed so many bets. The only glory on the day.

I would guess most of his bets were placed before GABP opened.

[paulxu]

The modern day record for consecutive losses is 23.

[GoMuskies]

Man, the Cubs really blow right now. I like it.

[X-band '01]

The whole division sucks, Go. Would it really shock you if the Cards won 86 games again and STILL win the World Series?

[bobbiemcgee]

Joey Votto NL MVP finalist .320- 36 hr - 100 rbi
Stanton - ,281 - 59 - 132
Goldschmidt - .297 - 36- 120
Snubbed:
Charlie Blackmon .331 - 37 - 104 (ALL TIME MLB record for lead off man)
Arenado .309 - 37 - 130 (soon to have 4 gold gloves)

Rant over

[Juice]

Joey Votto NL MVP finalist .320- 36 hr - 100 rbi
Stanton - ,281 - 59 - 132
Goldschmidt - .297 - 36- 120
Snubbed:
Charlie Blackmon .331 - 37 - 104 (ALL TIME MLB record for lead off man)
Arenado .309 - 37 - 130 (soon to have 4 gold gloves)

Rant over

Counting stats are bullshit.

Votto 165 wRC+, Stanton 156 wRC+, Blackmon 141 wRC+ Arenado 129 wRC+
Stanton 6.9 WAR, Votto 6.6, Blackmon 6.5, Arenado 5.6
Votto 1.032 OPS, Stanton 1.007 OPS, Blackmon 1.000, Arenado .959

[XU 87]

Counting stats are bullshit.




While you make a good point, it's tough to discount Stanton's 59 hr's and 132 RBI's vs. Votto's 36 and 100.

[Juice]

While you make a good point, it's tough to discount Stanton's 59 hr's and 132 RBI's vs. Votto's 36 and 100.

Stanton is a better power hitter. Votto is the better all around hitter. Votto has a higher average, OBP, OPS, and less strikeouts.

Stanton is a better base runner and plays a more premium defensive position. But Votto rebounded very nicely from a bad defensive year at 1b last year to a really good one this year.

[GoMuskies]

I'll go Stanton.

[bobbiemcgee]

RIP Roy Halladay

[Juice]

RIP Roy Halladay

Votto and Cozart got absolutely screwed in the Silver Slugger awards today. Votto was the best hitting 1b in all of baseball and of course the NL. Goldschmidt was better than Votto in one state, RBIs, which is probably one of the most unimportant stats when it comes to assessing value of a hitter.

And Cozart was also the best hitting SS in all of baseball this year. And the only stat Seager was better than him was RBIs as well.

Baseball awards are stupid.

[Juice]

Votto vs Goldschmidt in 2017:

PA: Votto
BB%: Votto
K%: Votto
BA: Votto
OBP: Votto
SLG: Votto
wRC+: Votto
Singles: Votto
Doubles: Tie
Homers: Tie
BA w/RISP: Votto
Stolen bases: Goldschmidt
BsR: Goldschmidt

Silver Slugger: Goldschmidt

[GoMuskies]

I know it shouldn't matter for the awards, but Goldschmidt was on a playoff team and Votto was.....not. I'm sure that made most of the difference for the voters.