Sumner (Will he Come back?) - No

[Muskie]

There seems to be an indication that Sumner is coming back...

[GoMuskies]

Let's hope he's able to actually play at some point next year.

[casualfan]

Source?

Great news if true.

[ChicagoX]

Between recovering from ACL surgery and his impending labrum surgery, I would be surprised if he's ready to play before December. If he does return next year, hopefully he can get some games in before the start of conference play to readjust to the pace of the game.

[JTG]

I was under the assumption that it was a very recoverable injury. People talk like he'll be on the shelf until next Jan. Is that the case ?

[AviatorX]

I was under the assumption that it was a very recoverable injury. People talk like he'll be on the shelf until next Jan. Is that the case ?

I think it's just the nature of the combo labrum/ACL.

[ammtd34]

Each injury individually would be ok, but he can't rehab concurrently. That's the issue.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I have this feeling for a long time; hope it is true. He is not in the best condition going into the NBA draft this year. With Ed and Q as our pg next year, we will have very strong front court. Ed can concentrate more on scoring.

[letskeepitreal]

Scruggs should be in the mix too.

[AviatorX]

I think it was pretty clear the Goodin/Sumner combo was clicking pretty well in that St. John's game. With Scruggs and Marshall's length in the mix...wow.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Scruggs should be in the mix too.

I always think of Scrugg as a SG, unless we run out of PG.

[markchal]

I always think of Scrugg as a SG, unless we run out of PG.

I dont think that matter really. We'll basically be playing 2 pgs all year.

[Ohionite_X]

Good thing about Sumner is that if he comes back his ACL will be repaired well before December and it will be the shoulder that needs that extra healing time. That should give him a good few months to try and get his legs back under him and regain some explosiveness prior to seeing game time action.

Sumner, Q, and Scruggs would be a killer defensive backcourt.

[AviatorX]

Xavier's man to man defense should be excellent next season with these guys in the fold.

[XUGRAD80]

Based on the interview/report he give that was similar to Tre's, he is planning on taking his recovery slow and is expecting to be back in January. Based on that same article, I get the impression that he is really expecting to be on the XU roster next year and is not expecting to be a 1st round draft pick this time around. But only time will tell.

[XU 87]

Based on the interview/report he give that was similar to Tre's, he is planning on taking his recovery slow and is expecting to be back in January. Based on that same article, I get the impression that he is really expecting to be on the XU roster next year and is not expecting to be a 1st round draft pick this time around. But only time will tell.

I am guessing, but I would think that an NBA team would want to see how he recovers before drafting him in the first round or high in the second round.

[XMuskieFTW]

Edmond Sumner‏Verified account @EdmondSumner · 8m8 minutes ago

I always wonder do people have "inside sources" or just be making stuff up lol don't believe everything you hear


Ed is reading. Hi Ed!

[mistabeecee41]

hey ed,

big fan. please print and autograph this post, scan it , and send it back via message. good luck with whatever choice you make!

-sincerely,

internet stranger

[casualfan]

Can anyone shed some light on this apparent indication?

I've seen nothing reported anywhere else other than Rick saying gun his to his head he thinks he comes back.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Hah he is reading. I have zero inside sources. I really hope his recovery is going well so far.

[bobbiemcgee]

I am psyched for the Second Coming of Ed, or is it the Third?

[XUGRAD80]

Hah he is reading. I have zero inside sources.

I really hope his recovery is going well so far.

And that's the main thing really, isn't it? No matter what he does, we should all just hope that his recovery goes well and he is not denied the future that he deserves. He really owes us fans nothing. He should do what is best for him. If he is offered a guaranteed contract before he even is recovered enough to play ball, I would think it was in his best interest to take it. On the other hand, as a fan, I am salivating at the idea of him coming back stronger and more experienced, and with Q and the newcomers in the back court with him. It could be epic! Good luck ED with whatever you do!

[SemajParlor]

Hey Ed!

[xu82]

Good thing about Sumner is that if he comes back his ACL will be repaired well before December and it will be the shoulder that needs that extra healing time. That should give him a good few months to try and get his legs back under him and regain some explosiveness prior to seeing game time action.

Sumner, Q, and Scruggs would be a killer defensive backcourt.

That's a good point. get that knee right first, then get the shoulder right. Then knee is related to his ridiculous explosiveness, and the shoulder will be fine when repaired. As I recall, it's his left shoulder, correct?

[xu82]

And that's the main thing really, isn't it? No matter what he does, we should all just hope that his recovery goes well and he is not denied the future that he deserves. He really owes us fans nothing. He should do what is best for him. If he is offered a guaranteed contract before he even is recovered enough to play ball, I would think it was in his best interest to take it. On the other hand, as a fan, I am salivating at the idea of him coming back stronger and more experienced, and with Q and the newcomers in the back court with him. It could be epic! Good luck ED with whatever you do!


Sure, be a kiss ass just because Ed is reading! :bleh:

Haha

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Like I said I am no insider and I have no sources, but I could see reasons for Ed to both stay and go.

GO...he gets good money now, he should go if he gets a draft pick guarantee from a team, screw this just stay Ed and X can have a lethal man to man. With the length, imagine the zone also.

Stay...get a difficult degree finish, play another year on a healed shoulder/knee, lead what should be a good team.

[xu82]

Like I said I am no insider and I have no sources, but I could see reasons for Ed to both stay and go.

GO...he gets good money now, he should go if he gets a draft pick guarantee from a team, screw this just stay Ed and X can have a lethal man to man. With the length, imagine the zone also.

Stay...get a difficult degree finish, play another year on a healed shoulder/knee, lead what should be a good team.

On the stay side, it should also include an improved chance of guaranteed money. Having said that, I'm sure he's getting good advice and will do what is best, whatever that is. Get well! Things will work out, even if the unknown sometimes sucks.

[vee4xu]

Seems to me he doesn't really have any choice but to return. He was injured for half of this season, part of last season and really doesn't shoot well from beyond the arc. Toss on top of that he's recovering from a major injury. So, when I think of what an NBA exec would see in Ed, the picture is incomplete. His best bet is to work hard in rehab, return to the team, work on his outside shot, stay healthy and help X win lots of games. At that point, many of the blanks that currently exist could be filled in and he can make a more informed decision regarding the NBA.

[94GRAD]

Besides the multiple injuries, this draft class is beyond loaded at the PG. It behooves him to stay another year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Each injury individually would be ok, but he can't rehab concurrently. That's the issue.

He can and will to some degree but not completely which is what will slow his return to the court.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Depending on how he returns from injury the unknown may be better than the known. No further tape would benefit him more than bad tape. I am sure this is something he is considering.

However hopefully his surgery went well and everything is anticipated to go smoothly and he gets back on the court sometime next season and balls out.

[XMuskieFTW]

Depending on how he returns from injury the unknown may be better than the known. No further tape would benefit him more than bad tape. I am sure this is something he is considering.

However hopefully his surgery went well and everything is anticipated to go smoothly and he gets back on the court sometime next season and balls out.

I remember when the knee surgery was done, Mack said it was the best they could hope for. Just had to replace the ACL, but there was no other damage. That would hopefully indicate a shorter recovery time for the knee. I kind of think the knee will be good for practice by the beginning of October. That will be 7 months. Probably take him a month or two before he can contribute and who knows how long until he's 100%. I think it's the shoulder that is going to keep him off the court. That one is said to be a 6 month recovery, and if that surgery isn't until June, we are already looking at December. I think that if he does return, it's going to be very similar timing to Myles, but the difference will be Ed will have been able to do some sort of drills and practicing for a month or two before his return. If Ed can even get back to where he was this year pre injury, it makes us a real contender for a Final Four along with Ed probably moving back into the first round in a less stacked PG class.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The guys are going to decide what they think is best, that said the overall draft class this year is pretty deep. If you are an NBA fan that likelihood of getting a good player is high.

[Xavier]

Looks like Sumner just declared-via his twitter

[Pete Delkus]

Verbal Commits tweets he's leaving for NBA

[OTRMUSKIE]

Well good luck Ed!

[muethibp]

Wonder if he is signing with an agent. Not much indication in his announcement that he might be back.

[XUMIOH12]

See ya Ed

[Caf]

But Ed! Your degree!

[BMoreX]

Damn.

Good luck Ed, all the best in your recovery and your dream in the association.

[GetUp5]

Weird that the Scout board and this board had people saying on good authority yesterday that he was coming back....

[XUMIOH12]

looks like those "indications" in the first post of this thread were way off haha

[casualfan]

Wonder if he is signing with an agent. Not much indication in his announcement that he might be back.

You're right that it doesn't mention that, but there'd be no reason for him to declare if he didn't intend to follow through and leave.

The guys who declare and ultimately come back do so after getting feedback from teams who work them out.

He's obviously not going to be able to workout for teams so that portion of the process doesn't really apply to him.

[casualfan]

Weird that the Scout board and this board had people saying on good authority yesterday that he was coming back....

I think it's likely that the OP took it directly from the Scout board and posted it here.

I asked for a source and they never posted one.

[Ohionite_X]

Good luck to Ed! I'm looking forward to him making a full recovery and crushing it in the NBA. Crazy to think that we saw less of Ed on the floor than we saw of Semaj during their respective times here. Really hope that his days of injuries are behind him.

[GoMuskies]

Well this blows.

[Muskie]

I think it's likely that the OP took it directly from the Scout board and posted it here.

I asked for a source and they never posted one. My source was someone close to the University. No idea if this person also spoke to the poster on the Scout Board, but it had been lingering out there for a day and a half or so. Clearly things changed.

[casualfan]

Ultimately I think this is the right move for him.

The risks associated with coming back far outweighed the rewards, especially with the way NBA contract work.

Good luck to him. I would not be surprised at all to see an NBA team take a flier on him in the second round.

[casualfan]

Jon Rothstein‏Verified account @JonRothstein 6m6 minutes ago
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Xavier's Edmond Sumner will sign with an agent and enter the 2017 NBA Draft, per his twitter page.

[BMoreX]

I will add, it was always going to be a tough/weird decision given his injuries, the timetable for his return and the risks involved.

Wish Ed nothing but the best moving forward.

[muskieindent]

Great move as long as he's drafted.Will teams want to take a risk on him? Hope he makes it

[AviatorX]

Ultimately I think this is the right move for him.

The risks associated with coming back far outweighed the rewards, especially with the way NBA contract work.

Good luck to him. I would not be surprised at all to see an NBA team take a flier on him in the second round.

Agreed. Too much risk to come back and have the uncertainty of what he'd be putting on tape. When he gets back to full strength, someone will be glad they stashed him.

Thanks, Ed. Probably one of the most dynamic/exciting guys to play at X. Made some unforgettable plays.

[xufan2434]

Good for Ed! Wish him all the luck. Sucks he had the injuries he had. Not only for this year but then again for next. Best case scenario was basically December/January of next year right? I mean he basically saw how it was for Myles to come back to the team mid-season like that. Not that him and Myles are the same player, I just don't know if 12-15 games of in the middle of the season trying to mesh with a whole new team was really going to help his stock at all.

He'll get drafted for sure, there's too much potential not to. And then he'll get fantastic treatment and coaching to get his game where it needs to be. Hopefully it's a good organization that takes him

[ammtd34]

Jon Rothstein‏Verified account @JonRothstein 6m6 minutes ago
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Xavier's Edmond Sumner will sign with an agent and enter the 2017 NBA Draft, per his twitter page.

He may have signed with an agent, but it definitely does not say so on his twitter page. Likely semantics at this point, though.

[Ohionite_X]

Someone else touched on this but if Ed declared for the draft then he will sign with an agent. He can't do any workouts so it would make no sense to declare just for feedback and then return.

[muskieindent]

Does that influence Tre? I think he is going anyway but does this seal the deal?

[mistabeecee41]

the 140 pound, 17 year old late bloomer with 3 offers who sat out his freshmen year with an injury is going to be picked in the NBA draft. don't think anybody saw that coming when we got a glimpse of him that 1st year. congrats to Ed and his family.

the same people who claimed D-Brown and Semaj made the wrong decisions are going to be the ones who come in here and say Ed is making the wrong decision. just save yourself the embarrassment, he's making the right move.

[xufan2434]

Does that influence Tre? I think he is going anyway but does this seal the deal?

Call it what you want by me looking into it, but based on their social media accounts it seems like they're planning on entering together

[SemajParlor]

Does that influence Tre? I think he is going anyway but does this seal the deal?

I think any notion that these 2 were coming back was wishful thinking.

[Caveat]

Does that influence Tre? I think he is going anyway but does this seal the deal?

Not really. Tre is what he is. The only reason for him to stay in school is out of sentimental attachment, IMO.

So, I'd assume he's gone.

[casualfan]

Shannon confirms the Rothstein report:

Shannon Russell‏Verified account @slrussell 5m5 minutes ago
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Edmond Sumner will sign with an agent. #Xavier

[bleedXblue]

Silver lining is that hopefully Mack can now secure a 5th year transfer to come in and get really good minutes right away.

Last year was a tougher sell with a pretty full back court. Not this year.

[Caveat]

Silver lining is that hopefully Mack can now secure a 5th year transfer to come in and get really good minutes right away.

Last year was a tougher sell with a pretty full back court. Not this year.

I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but this team has a chance to be absolutely awful next year.

[Ohionite_X]

Silver lining is that hopefully Mack can now secure a 5th year transfer to come in and get really good minutes right away.

Last year was a tougher sell with a pretty full back court. Not this year.

Adding a transfer is most likely but are there any guards that could still potentially be added to the incoming freshman class?

[XMuskieFTW]

I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but this team has a chance to be absolutely awful next year.

Nah. We will have 7 very good players and then it's more unknown what Harden, Ernst and Ridder will be able to give us. Even without a 5th year transfer, I expect we make the tourney as an 8-9ish seed.

[AviatorX]

I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but this team has a chance to be absolutely awful next year.

Seems a bit extreme. Are you assuming no one will get better and the freshman won't contribute?

[casualfan]

Edmond Sumner‏Verified account @EdmondSumner 4m4 minutes ago
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For a little insight for the fans of my decision. The return time table of my injury was a too big of IF I return at this date I'll be fine.

[xufan2434]

I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but this team has a chance to be absolutely awful next year.

Haha I've been thinking that for a bit now. It's a shame that's a possibility in JP's final year because he deserves to go out better. We'll see. Depends a lot on how Q develops and what the freshmen are actually capable of bringing. I know Scruggs is a Top 30 recruit. But Tre was 40-45 himself and he had a lot of ups and downs his first year. Which is to be expected. Next year's question to me is basically, can Mack get em to figure it out again by March and make their way into the dance

[bleedXblue]

I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but this team has a chance to be absolutely awful next year.

Really?

Awful?

With 3 returning starters in Goodin, O'Mara/Jones and JP.......

Add Gates as a very experienced guy.....

Great class coming in.

I really do think we get a high level 5th year guard.........we are the perfect program for that player right now....of course if Tre leaves too.

[Caveat]

Seems a bit extreme. Are you assuming no one will get better and the freshman won't contribute?

Not at all -- but I didn't stop to consider that there's an extreme downside to next year IF no one really improves and if the freshmen don't contribute or come along as quickly as they'd need to.

Team is losing a TON of points and there will need to be an immediate step-up by people.

[AviatorX]

Not at all -- but I didn't stop to consider that there's an extreme downside to next year IF no one really improves and if the freshmen don't contribute or come along as quickly as they'd need to.

Team is losing a TON of points and there will need to be an immediate step-up by people.

Agreed. It will definitely be a different style team. But I really like the personnel. I don't think it's a stretch that Naji and Scruggs will contribute.

I think a lot of BE teams would trade their returning core for X's.

[xufan2434]

Not at all -- but I didn't stop to consider that there's an extreme downside to next year IF no one really improves and if the freshmen don't contribute or come along as quickly as they'd need to.

Team is losing a TON of points and there will need to be an immediate step-up by people.

I keep picturing what the offense looked like during the losing streak without Tre and it's not pretty. No doubt guys will improve and the team won't be thrown into the fire like that 4 months into it but still.. Gonna have a lot of ups and downs

[Caveat]

Agreed. It will definitely be a different style team. But I really like the personnel. I don't think it's a stretch that Naji and Scruggs will contribute.

I think a lot of BE teams would trade their returning core for X's.

A lot is going to depend on Q and Kaiser, IMO. Those two both improving in the off-season would alleviate a lot of pressure on Naji and Scruggs to be immediate contributors.

[Mrs. Garrett]

So now everyone is freaking out over the exact scenario we anticipated at the start of the season. Which was both Tre and Ed leaving. We've got 4 guys coming back who saw significant PT this past season. Each of those guys had big games during the run. Just like this past season this coming year will be more of the "next man up" philosophy. They'll be fine.

[drudy23]

Well poop.

Not unexpected.

[boozehound]

Man, that's a little frustrating. We really didn't end up getting much actual production out of Ed for all the potential. Not his fault, just unfortunate.

[ammtd34]

Not at all -- but I didn't stop to consider that there's an extreme downside to next year IF no one really improves and if the freshmen don't contribute or come along as quickly as they'd need to.

Team is losing a TON of points and there will need to be an immediate step-up by people.


The bold part is probably true, but it would also be an extremely rare occurrence.

[AviatorX]

The bold part is probably true, but it would also be an extremely rare occurrence.

Haha yeah. It's basically true of 99% of college basketball teams 99% of the time.

[XU 87]

Seems a bit extreme. Are you assuming no one will get better and the freshman won't contribute?

If Bluiett comes back, this would be essentially the same team (except Malcolm) as the one that went to the Elite 8, and then add in some very good freshman to help.

[bobbiemcgee]

Mack will probably add a very good grad transfer to the mix.

[paulxu]

Edmond Sumner‏Verified account @EdmondSumner 4m4 minutes ago
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For a little insight for the fans of my decision. The return time table of my injury was a too big of IF I return at this date I'll be fine.

One of you guys translate that into regular English for me. Yes...I'm confused as to what exactly he is saying. Thanks.

[ammtd34]

One of you guys translate that into regular English for me. Yes...I'm confused as to what exactly he is saying. Thanks.

There was no guarantee that he'd be healthy enough to play next year, in which case, he would have wasted the entire year.

[xufan2434]

There was no guarantee that he'd be healthy enough to play next year, in which case, he would have wasted the entire year.

And then wasted a whole year of development to improve where his position already is this year. If anything, it makes his stock worse. I'd be very surprised if someone doesn't take him in the 2nd round

[xukeith]

And then wasted a whole year of development to improve where his position already is this year. If anything, it makes his stock worse. I'd be very surprised if someone doesn't take him in the 2nd round

Why would any NBA team draft him in any round? No team knows if he will be able to play at all. Huge stupid risk to take by drafting an injured player.

I hope his knee heals which is not done through rehab. Just time, genes, and grace of God.


I suspect in October-January, Sumner will workout for Europe or camps in D League.
We shall see. #bigrisk.

[AviatorX]

Why would any NBA team draft him in any round? No team knows if he will be able to play at all. Huge stupid risk to take by drafting an injured player.

I hope his knee heals which is not done through rehab. Just time, genes, and grace of God.


I suspect in October-January, Sumner will workout for Europe or camps in D League.
We shall see. #bigrisk.

I'm excited for your angry post when Trevon declares. I'm setting the over/under at 2 for hashtags and mentions of the word "degree."

[Caf]

Why would any NBA team draft him in any round? No team knows if he will be able to play at all. Huge stupid risk to take by drafting an injured player.

I hope his knee heals which is not done through rehab. Just time, genes, and grace of God.


I suspect in October-January, Sumner will workout for Europe or camps in D League.
We shall see. #bigrisk.

Do you know a single thing about the NBA? They draft potential all the time.

[sweet6teen]

I'd be very surprised if someone doesn't take him in the 2nd round

Absolutely, why wouldn't you!? You get a top 15 talent by simply burning a 2nd round (and possibly late) pick. No guarantees and you can bring him in and have him do nothing but rehab under your guidance.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I wish Ed a speedy and full recovery. Good luck on the NBA draft. His not returning does not change much for X next year since he is not expected to play in full strength until early next year, if that. It's too bad we did not see him play more in X uniform.

[THRILLHOUSE]

One of you guys translate that into regular English for me. Yes...I'm confused as to what exactly he is saying. Thanks.

Kind of clumsily written, but I think Ed is saying the time table of his return is too questionable, and not at all guaranteed. So basically too much of a concern of "IF I return by this date, I will be fine".

[X-band '01]

I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but this team has a chance to be absolutely awful next year.

If it's awful, it would probably be because of off-the-court issues that would arise during the spring and summer. This team definitely does not need a sequel to Myles Davis and Myles Fox Morrissey.

You can always recruit accordingly based on Ed's decision to go pro and Trevon Bluiett's likelihood to go pro as well.

[X-Men]

A lot is going to depend on Q and Kaiser, IMO. Those two both improving in the off-season would alleviate a lot of pressure on Naji and Scruggs to be immediate contributors.

It will be interesting to see what kind of additional impact transfers we get, if any. That could make a big difference.

[xufan2434]

Why would any NBA team draft him in any round? No team knows if he will be able to play at all. Huge stupid risk to take by drafting an injured player.

I hope his knee heals which is not done through rehab. Just time, genes, and grace of God.


I suspect in October-January, Sumner will workout for Europe or camps in D League.
We shall see. #bigrisk.

LMAO.. It's actually not a risk at all to any team. A 2nd round pick to them is not guaranteed nor binding. Teams use the 2nd round to draft and stash allllll the time. They take European players that are 100% not coming for another couple years still. They take injured players so that they have their rights in case they do make a good comeback. It's why older players are always screwed. They're at their heights already. An NBA team can always go get a guy that's 22-23 and was pretty good in college. Ed has intangibles that Trevon doesn't have and why his stock has always been higher. You know absolutely nothing about the draft. This isn't the NFL

[GreatWhiteNorth]

With the exposure at the E8, X should be in an excellent position to attract quality transfer for the pg position.

[Caf]

If it's awful, it would probably be because of off-the-court issues that would arise during the spring and summer. This team definitely does not need a sequel to Myles Davis and Myles Fox Morrissey.

You can always recruit accordingly based on Ed's decision to go pro and Trevon Bluiett's likelihood to go pro as well.

Exectly. After the year we just saw, how are people already doubting NEXT YEAR'S team?! We don't even know the complete roster yet.

[Caveat]

With the exposure at the E8, X should be in an excellent position to attract quality transfer for the pg position.

Any kind of scorer would be a help. Ideally I think they'd be looking for a 2 or a 3 -- I think they're probably comfortable with Q running the point and Scruggs as the backup.

[Caveat]

Exectly. After the year we just saw, how are people already doubting NEXT YEAR'S team?! We don't even know the complete roster yet.

No one is "doubting" next year's team -- just making the observation that they're replacing a ton of scoring and there isn't a clear indication yet where points are going to come from next season.

[Caf]

No one is "doubting" next year's team -- just making the observation that they're replacing a ton of scoring and there isn't a clear indication yet where points are going to come from next season.

Haha we must have different definitions of doubt because that's literally what the bold is. Whatever though.

I suspect it will come from improvements from Jones, Q, Gates, and O'Mara. Plus whatever we can get from the best recruit we've ever had and the rest of the incoming #11 recruiting class in the country.

[casualfan]

Any kind of scorer would be a help. Ideally I think they'd be looking for a 2 or a 3 -- I think they're probably comfortable with Q running the point and Scruggs as the backup.

Agreed. Point guard will not be the issue.

We need a scorer, preferably one that shoots a good percentage from outside.

Assuming Tre leaves we don't return anybody that is a particularly good outside shooter.

JP (34%) and Kaiser (34%) are both solid. Other than that you have Q at 25% and that's about it for returning guys.

Both Tre (37%) and Malcolm (39%) were pretty good shooters this past year.

I would think Q will improve, but I'm not sure he will ever be more than an average outside shooter.

With the offense we run we really need to add another guy or two that can stroke it from deep.

I think both Harden and the big white kid whose name currently escapes me are known as shooters, but I doubt either will be ready to play big minutes next year.

[xufan2434]

Agreed. Point guard will not be the issue.

We need a scorer, preferably one that shoots a good percentage from outside.

Assuming Tre leaves we don't return anybody that is a particularly good outside shooter.

JP (34%) and Kaiser (34%) are both solid. Other than that you have Q at 25% and that's about it for returning guys.

Both Tre (37%) and Malcolm (39%) were pretty good shooters this past year.

I would think Q will improve, but I'm not sure he will ever be more than an average outside shooter.

With the offense we run we really need to add another guy or two that can stroke it from deep.

I think both Harden and the big white kid whose name currently escapes me are known as shooters, but I doubt either will be ready to play big minutes next year.

Jared Ridder -- Highly regarded as a Top 10 shooter in the class. He actually brings a lot more athleticism than I originally thought. So they'll have his shooting. Just depends how quickly he can pick up the pack line defense and able to see the floor

[SemajParlor]

I'm excited to see Ridder. I think he may be able to surprise people. Ed flew under the radar coming in. You never know until the kids are on campus.

[paulxu]

Thanks for answering my question above. Never thought through the second round stash 'em idea.

Maybe we should try to get that Wright kid and piss everybody off.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Wow some crazy posts here, Ed is a speedy 6'6 PG. I think either decision he made whether to stay or go would have been right. He views his recovery being too long to contribute next year. Ok, I really hope and I believe he is going to get run in the NBA at his height and speed.

Those that think next year is dire straits need to step back and see the forest for the trees. Does this team look assured of a great season, well no, but they aren't a dumpster fire either.

Goodin/Scruggs
Macura/Marshall
Gates/Harden/Ridder
O'Mara//Ernst
Jones/Jones

Yes that team has questions, but there is a ton of talent there albeit young.

[casualfan]

Wow some crazy posts here, Ed is a speedy 6'6 PG. I think either decision he made whether to stay or go would have been right. He views his recovery being too long to contribute next year. Ok, I really hope and I believe he is going to get run in the NBA at his height and speed.

Those that think next year is dire straits need to step back and see the forest for the trees. Does this team look assured of a great season, well no, but they aren't a dumpster fire either.

Goodin/Scruggs
Macura/Marshall
Gates/Harden/Ridder
O'Mara//Ernst
Jones/Jones

Yes that team has questions, but there is a ton of talent there albeit young.

Not a single person has said they think next year is dire straits.

The most anyone has said is that if we experience the worst case scenario the team might not be very good.

While I think that's a pretty dumb statement (any team that experiences the worst case scenario wouldn't be very good) it's not suggesting we're in dire straits.

[GetUp5]

Wow some crazy posts here, Ed is a speedy 6'6 PG. I think either decision he made whether to stay or go would have been right. He views his recovery being too long to contribute next year. Ok, I really hope and I believe he is going to get run in the NBA at his height and speed.

Those that think next year is dire straits need to step back and see the forest for the trees. Does this team look assured of a great season, well no, but they aren't a dumpster fire either.

Goodin/Scruggs
Macura/Marshall
Gates/Harden/Ridder
O'Mara//Ernst
Jones/Jones

Yes that team has questions, but there is a ton of talent there albeit young.

No one has said next year looks bad.

That roster actually looks pretty solid. Not a ton of questions other than which freshmen will step up and if Ernst will be able to make an impact.

[throwbackmuskie]

Ed and Tre are both big losses, but it allowed Q and the other guys to grow up as well. I think if Marshall and Scruggs are as good as advertised we will be all right. I think Harden is going to a big contributor as well.

[Caveat]

Not a single person has said they think next year is dire straits.

The most anyone has said is that if we experience the worst case scenario the team might not be very good.

While I think that's a pretty dumb statement (any team that experiences the worst case scenario wouldn't be very good) it's not suggesting we're in dire straits.

I said there's an extreme downside to next season if players like Q and Gates don't step up in the offseason -- meaning that there isn't much coming back next season where you can just pencil it in (in terms of points production). There's a high ceiling to a Xavier team next year because of the sheer talent level coming, but there's also a really deep basement -- one that you don't even need to envision "worst case scenario" to see them team ending up in.

[OTRMUSKIE]

When has Xavier ever sucked? 1980? But next year will be the year that we struggle? Smh. I have never worried about Xavier being good. They are always good. Next year will be no exception.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

We don't need a grad transfer then if we aren't in trouble with the roster. There should be 10 scholarship guys and maybe another with K.Jones. This team is doing fine. It's a young team, the youth will push Q/Gates in the off season and either beat them out and push them to success.

Mack took Gaston because he knew about Reynolds and he took Bernard because he knew about Myles. If we see a grad transfer, it should be because we have some kind of team 96 off season roster issue.

[casualfan]

We don't need a grad transfer then if we aren't in trouble with the roster. There should be 10 scholarship guys and maybe another with K.Jones. This team is doing fine. It's a young team, the youth will push Q/Gates in the off season and either beat them out and push them to success.

Mack took Gaston because he knew about Reynolds and he took Bernard because he knew about Myles. If we see a grad transfer, it should be because we have some kind of team 96 off season roster issue.

Yeah, and 5 or 6 of them have never scored a point at the D1 level.

This isn't hard. If they can find a guy they think can help on the grad transfer market they will take them.

[Caveat]

When has Xavier ever sucked? 1980? But next year will be the year that we struggle? Smh. I have never worried about Xavier being good. They are always good. Next year will be no exception.

2012/2013 was pretty rough.

Like I said, I'm not really that worried -- it's just that there's a lot of uncertainty for next season IMO.

[xufan2434]

2012/2013 was pretty rough.

Beat me to it on that one lol. Although next year's starting 5 would wipe the one from that year

D Davis
Semaj
Phillmore
J Robinson
T Taylor

[xu82]

Beat me to it on that one lol. Although next year's starting 5 would wipe the one from that year

D Davis
Semaj
Phillmore
J Robinson
T Taylor

That seems like a lifetime ago!

[BandAid]

No one transfer. That imperative is all I have to contribute to this thread. If anyone does happen to transfer, then things might get funky.

[ammtd34]

The most anyone has said is that if we experience the worst case scenario the team might not be very good.



They said "absolutely awful."

[xu82]

No one transfer. That imperative is all I have to contribute to this thread. If anyone does happen to transfer, then things might get funky.

No one transfer OUT, and one really great shooter transfer IN. That is my dream.....

[bleedXblue]

Jared Ridder -- Highly regarded as a Top 10 shooter in the class. He actually brings a lot more athleticism than I originally thought. So they'll have his shooting. Just depends how quickly he can pick up the pack line defense and able to see the floor

Ridder I am sure will be a nice player......but this team will need immediate experience and the composure of an upper classmen.

[bleedXblue]

Yeah, and 5 or 6 of them have never scored a point at the D1 level.

This isn't hard. If they can find a guy they think can help on the grad transfer market they will take them.

no kidding.....how can you look at it any other way......geesh

[SemajParlor]

That seems like a lifetime ago!

Really does. Just a few years ago. Completely different era.

[casualfan]

Really does. Just a few years ago. Completely different era.

Shows haw fragile winning can be at this level.

[ammtd34]

no kidding.....how can you look at it any other way......geesh

Maybe people think that freshmen will be more ready to contribute from day 1 than you do. Are they right? I don't know. But that's one way to look at it.

[xu82]

Shows haw fragile winning can be at this level.

It also shows how far we have come in just a few years under our awesome coaching staff!

[casualfan]

It also shows how far we have come in just a few years under our awesome coaching staff!

Not sure I follow.

Chris was here for 3 full season before 2012/13.

[GoMuskies]

Not sure I follow.

Chris was here for 3 full season before 2012/13.

It just shows how a coach who does a shitty job building a roster can also do a great job building a roster!!!!!

Oh yeah, also Dez.

[muskieindent]

There was no guarantee that he'd be healthy enough to play next year, in which case, he would have wasted the entire year.
So he thinks some team will want to take a chance on a guy who may not contribute next year. If so it will be one of the better teams in the NBA that doesn't need instant help.I heard on radio he's projected to be a first round pick.I'm having a hard time seeing that.

[bleedXblue]

Maybe people think that freshmen will be more ready to contribute from day 1 than you do. Are they right? I don't know. But that's one way to look at it.

Adding a frosh this late in the process is infinitely more risky than adding a 5th year transfer who's played 3 years of college ball. I'm not talking about the frosh we already have coming.......if Tre leaves we will have two spots open for next year.

[xu82]

Not sure I follow.

Chris was here for 3 full season before 2012/13.

It doesn't happen all at once, but do you not see the upward trajectory? It's a lot of things, including conference affiliation, but the coaching staff has done some heavy lifting.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Mack didn't just bring in 5 guys with a 6th Juco to take minutes away from them with a grad transfer. If we lose a guy to transferring out, then I would think he would seek that out. As of now, I like the current 11 that we are expected to have. There are a ton of questions, but like life some are answered yes and some are no.

People need to remember that Mack gave a ton of run to Dez and Tre as freshman. Scruggs will most likely get that same time if he is legit (I think this guy can play and will a lot for us), or pick the best of the incoming guys.

[casualfan]

It doesn't happen all at once, but do you not see the upward trajectory? It's a lot of things, including conference affiliation, but the coaching staff has done some heavy lifting.

I'm just not sure why we should be celebrating the staff getting us out of a position they were solely responsible for?

I love Chris and his staff and what they have done, but I'm not giving them extra credit for righting the ship after they ran it ashore.

[Ohionite_X]

It doesn't happen all at once, but do you not see the upward trajectory? It's a lot of things, including conference affiliation, but the coaching staff has done some heavy lifting.

Our two best recruiting classes ever, a sweet 16, and an Elite 8 all within the 4 years of Big East play. That move was huge.

[casualfan]

Mack didn't just bring in 5 guys with a 6th Juco to take minutes away from them with a grad transfer. .

What do you want to bet me they add a grad transfer this offseason?

[xufan2434]

So he thinks some team will want to take a chance on a guy who may not contribute next year. If so it will be one of the better teams in the NBA that doesn't need instant help.I heard on radio he's projected to be a first round pick.I'm having a hard time seeing that.

Yes, that's exactly what he thinks. There's only so many roster spots in the NBA and the top half of the league only have room for maybe 1 rookie to come in and contribute right away. So drafting a guy with a bunch of potential that you don't have room for currently already isn't that big of a deal. There's also teams out there like Utah, that have 2 first rounders and 4 picks in the 2nd. They'll obviously use a couple of those in trades, but picks like those in the 2nd can be used as wild cards.

I do agree though, the radio must have been talking about his projection at the beginning of the year

[bleedXblue]

What do you want to bet me they add a grad transfer this offseason?

I want some of that action too.

You have open roster spots.

Use them if you can find the right guy!!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

What do you want to bet me they add a grad transfer this offseason?

I won't since I don't know what the roster is going to finish like. If it finishes with what we have and K.Jones is eligible, I don't see a grad transfer coming in and taking serious minutes.

[casualfan]

I won't since I don't know what the roster is going to finish like. If it finishes with what we have and K.Jones is eligible, I don't see a grad transfer coming in and taking serious minutes.

By what we have are you including Tre?

[bleedXblue]

I won't since I don't know what the roster is going to finish like. If it finishes with what we have and K.Jones is eligible, I don't see a grad transfer coming in and taking serious minutes.

what is the likelihood that all 6 will be eligible to play right away?

Come on

[bobbiemcgee]

Well, if Scruggs is indeed a 5 star, I would expect him to start.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

what is the likelihood that all 6 will be eligible to play right away?

Come on

K.Jones is a known issue who is doing his best to work it out. The rest I have all heard should be good to go (should and ready are two different things). No, I do not include Tre. When Mack is more aware of how the roster is shaping up (eligibility/transfers out), we will see him make adjustments. What I see today, if this is what we have I wouldn't expect anyone new brought in.

[casualfan]

Well, if Scruggs is indeed a 5 star, I would expect him to start.

Scout, Rivals, and ESPN all have him as a 4 star.

[casualfan]

No, I do not include Tre. When Mack is more aware of how the roster is shaping up (eligibility/transfers out), we will see him make adjustments. What I see today, if this is what we have I wouldn't expect anyone new brought in.

So then why not bet me?

I'll put in the caveat that if anyone on the current roster not named Tre leaves that it voids the bet.

[xu82]

I'm just not sure why we should be celebrating the staff getting us out of a position they were solely responsible for?

I love Chris and his staff and what they have done, but I'm not giving them extra credit for righting the ship after they ran it ashore.

They were behind the 8 ball for a year or two after Miller left. It's a setback that happens with change, and should not draw blame. It is to be expected. The BE is huge in recent recruiting, but the ship that needed righting (according to you) was not because our staff sucked and ran it ashore. It was a difficult transition.

[GetUp5]

We don't need a grad transfer then if we aren't in trouble with the roster. There should be 10 scholarship guys and maybe another with K.Jones. This team is doing fine. It's a young team, the youth will push Q/Gates in the off season and either beat them out and push them to success.

Mack took Gaston because he knew about Reynolds and he took Bernard because he knew about Myles. If we see a grad transfer, it should be because we have some kind of team 96 off season roster issue.

No. We take a grad transfer since there's an open scholarship that would otherwise go to waste.

[xu82]

No. We take a grad transfer since there's an open scholarship that would otherwise go to waste.

...and a little more outside shooting could be VERY helpful.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Why would any NBA team draft him in any round? No team knows if he will be able to play at all. Huge stupid risk to take by drafting an injured player.

NBA 2nd round picks are not very highly valued. I will be surprised if he is not selected. Could get a first round talent in the 2nd round. Very low risk.

I hope his knee heals which is not done through rehab. Just time, genes, and grace of God.

HUH? Not done through rehab? What are you talking about?



See bolded above.

[casualfan]

They were behind the 8 ball for a year or two after Miller left. It's a setback that happens with change, and should not draw blame. It is to be expected. The BE is huge in recent recruiting, but the ship that needed righting (according to you) was not because our staff sucked and ran it ashore. It was a difficult transition.

That down year came in Chris fourth season here. It had nothing to do with Sean Miller.

[D-West & PO-Z]

https://twitter.com/slrussell/status/846902102152507392

"If the doctors had said, ‘You can be back by November or December,' I would have 120 percent returned to Xavier. But that's a big ‘if.' I could be back by December, or I could be back by March. I just felt it wasn't going to put me in the greatest circumstances for my goals so I thought it would be best to enter (the draft) now."

[AviatorX]

That down year came in Chris fourth season here. It had nothing to do with Sean Miller.

Ok, but let's not act like the Dez Wells situation was all on Chris Mack. The 2012-13 team is completely different with him on the team.

Also keep in mind Mack signed the highest rated recruiting class in school history, an extremely productive one, on the heels of that season.

[xu82]

That down year came in Chris fourth season here. It had nothing to do with Sean Miller.

So, the year he would have had some seniors, but didn't get those guys. Yeah, they don't count. Look, I'm not being unreasonable here with qualified praise, but you have an unnecessarily negative slant. Fine, if you don't like it go be a casual negative fan somewhere else.

[GoMuskies]

Mack definitely shouldn't have a pass for that year. That was clearly on him and not Miller. But....Dez Wells.

[xu82]

Mack definitely shouldn't have a pass for that year. That was clearly on him and not Miller. But....Dez Wells.

Anyone think Dez might matter? I tend to be the glass half full guy, I admit. The bashers are tiring.

[LA Muskie]

No. We take a grad transfer since there's an open scholarship that would otherwise go to waste.

Programs "waste" scholarships all the time. Many coaches prefer not to have 13 scholarship players because they can't simultaneously keep 13 kids happy with their PT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bleedXblue]

Programs "waste" scholarships all the time. Many coaches prefer not to have 13 scholarship players because they can't simultaneously keep 13 kids happy with their PT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, but this roster situation (with 6 new players) screams grad transfer along with a redshirt or partial qualifier.

[muethibp]

The timing of his injuries (recall the report he needs labrum surgery too) really left him with no good choice. He can come back and it might work well. But, as he has said, he might only play a little bit and he could not play well, so there is real downside there. As for coming out, I am very skeptical that he gets picked. I would have been skeptical if he were healthy - love the guy, but the NBA is a three-and-D league right now and he shot 25% from the college line. I just don't think the current iteration of the NBA is going to be keen on his game. Factor in the injuries and I think he's got a tough road. Most places I've looked at have him as a fringe second round pick and that seems about right to me.

[xukeith]

See bolded above.

If you listened to Coach Mack, you can do all the rehab and therapy in the world but one thing that it will not speed up in knee injuries is the ligament healing.
You strengthen and lengthen all the muscles supporting the knee. Then, the healing of the ligament or tendon cannot be sped up. It is all genes, luck, and different for every person.

Post surgery myself as an example : doctor said shoulder surgery would rehab in 3-6 months. It took over a year to heal.
Rehabbed great but inside the body there are many intangibles (time) for it to heal.

[ArcherXU]

With what Sumner has said about his time table on potentially coming back from his injury I feel like he probably made the right decision so I hope it works out for him and in 2-3 yrs we see him on an NBA roster.

In regards to people discussing Coach Mack and his recruiting..... really? His first season of recruiting was late in the game if I remember correctly and he was still able to land Jeff Robinson who wasn't great for us but he still contributed greatly throughout his career. Then you add in the Dez Wells mess.... and the simple fact during those early years he's an unproven first time head coach and fast forward to today where we're bringing in, what, the 5th overall class..... we're seriously talking about this after that great run..... I say again, really?

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I agree with ArcherXU on this, Mack is a proven recruiter. He is human just like all other coaches out there, but has a good record. We are lucky he is our coach. Even without Trevon, I really like next year's team.

[stammina0721]

My only knock on Sumner all along has been his shot. That will get better. He will be drafted and it will be by a contender who does not need a day one player. As of now I think he either ends up as a Spur, Clipper, Pacer, Rocket or Jazz. All will pick later in the draft and are set at PG and won't need an immediate starter.

[xu82]

With what Sumner has said about his time table on potentially coming back from his injury I feel like he probably made the right decision so I hope it works out for him and in 2-3 yrs we see him on an NBA roster.

In regards to people discussing Coach Mack and his recruiting..... really? His first season of recruiting was late in the game if I remember correctly and he was still able to land Jeff Robinson who wasn't great for us but he still contributed greatly throughout his career. Then you add in the Dez Wells mess.... and the simple fact during those early years he's an unproven first time head coach and fast forward to today where we're bringing in, what, the 5th overall class..... we're seriously talking about this after that great run..... I say again, really?

Some people apparently just can't help themselves......

I don't know what else to say.

[markchal]

I know a lot of people are throwing out our class ranking, but isn't that tied considerably to the fact that we're bringing in so many players? Granted, Scruggs and Naji seem pretty strong, and the others are talented as well, but it's not like we're bringing in a class of Day 1 killers. We're definitely more in rebuild mode next year than reload mode, we're not Kentucky.

[GoMuskies]

I think it's fair to both acknowledge that Mack has done a great job recruiting most years AND put most of the blame (not the Dez part, which was huge, obviously) on him for his fourth team at X sucking wind. Sean Miller's 4th team at Xavier won 30 games and went to the Elite Eight. So it can be done.

[xu82]

I think it's fair to both acknowledge that Mack has done a great job recruiting most years AND put most of the blame (not the Dez part, which was huge, obviously) on him for his fourth team at X sucking wind. Sean Miller's 4th team at Xavier won 30 games and went to the Elite Eight. So it can be done.

No doubt, I'm not aiming for sainthood, just looking at the big picture. He's human, and who knows what happens behind the scenes that affects the outcomes. I'm sure it wasn't for lack of trying. Sometimes things don't go according to plan. Overall, though? I'm all aboard!

And who knows what we would have been with Dez?

[GoMuskies]

Overall, though? I'm all aboard!

Most definitely. It's just kind of amazing how small things can change perceptions. Lyons doesn't go off and bring us back from 6 down against Dayton in the A-10 Tournament? One more NIT and one less Sweet 16. Trevon misses that shot against Butler? Maybe a loss, and maybe another NIT instead of an Elite Eight.

Tough business where the margin between success and failure can be so, so thin.

[xavierj]

I know a lot of people are throwing out our class ranking, but isn't that tied considerably to the fact that we're bringing in so many players? Granted, Scruggs and Naji seem pretty strong, and the others are talented as well, but it's not like we're bringing in a class of Day 1 killers. We're definitely more in rebuild mode next year than reload mode, we're not Kentucky.

Rebuild? Come on man. They are brining back at least 3 starters and a great recruiting class. If O'Mara plays like he did and Jones improves like I think he will, along With Q, who I think will be impossible to keep out of lane along with JP and Gates improvements, this team should be loaded and I am not not even counting the former Iowa state player or the freshman. Would actually be upset with less than 25 wins. Blueitt comes back and yikes, might be the most talented team ever at Xavier. They will be much improved on defense and be big at every position.

[GoMuskies]

We don't rebuild. We reload.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If you listened to Coach Mack, you can do all the rehab and therapy in the world but one thing that it will not speed up in knee injuries is the ligament healing.
You strengthen and lengthen all the muscles supporting the knee. Then, the healing of the ligament or tendon cannot be sped up. It is all genes, luck, and different for every person.

Post surgery myself as an example : doctor said shoulder surgery would rehab in 3-6 months. It took over a year to heal.
Rehabbed great but inside the body there are many intangibles (time) for it to heal.

I dont want to derail the thread, no further comment.

[markchal]

Would actually be upset with less than 25 wins. .

You know we only won 24 games this year, right? And we had one of the best X players ever for most of them, and a player who left early for the NBA for a good chunk of them too.

I think next year's team CAN be good, but putting expectations that high is a little unfair. Remember how this team looked without Trevon? We also only have two senior, and three upperclassmen. We have to replace a TON of scoring. We were one of the worst three-point shooting teams in the country last year, and we lose a pretty good shooter in Trevon and a statistically good shooter in Bernard. We replace them with a class that doesn't have a ton of shooting (Ridder is supposed to be the best, but I think it might be hard for him to get much PT since he plays the same position as Kaiser).

It's gonna take some time for these guys to gel into their roles and for the new players to get used to the speed of the college game. I think they will be fun to watch, but they are gonna take their lumps at times.

[GoMuskies]

We were also an 11 seed this year. It's not like beating this season (outside of the amazing last two weeks) would be a major accomplishment.

[xu82]

Most definitely. It's just kind of amazing how small things can change perceptions. Lyons doesn't go off and bring us back from 6 down against Dayton in the A-10 Tournament? One more NIT and one less Sweet 16. Trevon misses that shot against Butler? Maybe a loss, and maybe another NIT instead of an Elite Eight.

Tough business where the margin between success and failure can be so, so thin.

No kidding! And if Wisconsin misses at the buzzer and we roll in OT, a whole new story. Not to be entirely positive, just agreeing it's a game of inches (or big shoes in one case) and you just hope you get that good bounce more often than not.

[gladdenguy]

Most definitely. It's just kind of amazing how small things can change perceptions. Lyons doesn't go off and bring us back from 6 down against Dayton in the A-10 Tournament? One more NIT and one less Sweet 16. Trevon misses that shot against Butler? Maybe a loss, and maybe another NIT instead of an Elite Eight.

Tough business where the margin between success and failure can be so, so thin.

Good gosh. Way to bring me back to nerves and I absolutely had no reason to be nervous tonight.

Very good points though.

[xavierj]

You know we only won 24 games this year, right? And we had one of the best X players ever for most of them, and a player who left early for the NBA for a good chunk of them too.

I think next year's team CAN be good, but putting expectations that high is a little unfair. Remember how this team looked without Trevon? We also only have two senior, and three upperclassmen. We have to replace a TON of scoring. We were one of the worst three-point shooting teams in the country last year, and we lose a pretty good shooter in Trevon and a statistically good shooter in Bernard. We replace them with a class that doesn't have a ton of shooting (Ridder is supposed to be the best, but I think it might be hard for him to get much PT since he plays the same position as Kaiser).

It's gonna take some time for these guys to gel into their roles and for the new players to get used to the speed of the college game. I think they will be fun to watch, but they are gonna take their lumps at times.

Xavier lost over 50% of their offense after last season, then lost Summer and went to the elite 8. This season was a disaster and ended up in elite 8. Having 6 of top 8 and possibly 7 of 8 back next year, with some serious talent coming in, would say they should win a lot and contend for a big east title. People do realize Ed didn't play when Xavier was at their best, right?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Saw one mock updated today with Sumner picked #59 (second to last) to the Spurs. Same mock did not have Trevon drafted.

[xu82]

Saw one mock updated today with Sumner picked #59 (second to last) to the Spurs. Same mock did not have Trevon drafted.

The Spurs are smart and that would make sense to me.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just came across another updated today that has Ed at #36 (Sixers) and Tre at #55 (Wizards).

[ArcherXU]

Some people apparently just can't help themselves......

I don't know what else to say.

I'm not quite sure how to take this, but ever the optimist I'll assume you agree wholeheartedly that we X fans are spoiled with Coach Mack.

*Edit* Went back and specifically looked for your posts and see we are in agreement. The main reason I stopped coming to this board religiously was due to, what I thought, was lunacy or delusion among the fan base when it came to our coaches. We are spoiled at X and many take it for granted. Growing up with X and hearing the stories from my Dad about the way things use to be, and my own memories of the Gillen and Prosser days.... Nike elite school, Big East conference, amazing student athletes picking us over other big name schools, a head coach that is seen as one of the best and will retire at X(yes, I am Nostradamus reincarnate).... as Charlie Sheen would say, winning.

[mid major]

Yes we're spoiled. I came to Xavier as a freshman in the fall of 1984. It was Bob Staak's last year and he left Gillen with a pretty solid team. Byron could've transferred after his freshman year but he stayed. Back then, I expected to make the tournament every year but now the expectation is to advance every year so ,yes, we are spoiled...and I love it. This season showed that you can never count this program out. It didn't happen overnight and there are some veterans on this board who went through some lean years in the 60's and 70's. So let's all enjoy what we have. It's great to be a Musketeer.

[muethibp]

No kidding! And if Wisconsin misses at the buzzer and we roll in OT, a whole new story. Not to be entirely positive, just agreeing it's a game of inches (or big shoes in one case) and you just hope you get that good bounce more often than not.

I have always said that one shouldn't judge teams/coaches/players by tournament success. The tournament is just a weird thing. Teams advance and don't based on many factors, a lot of which are external and out of the teams' control. Better metric is the regular season.

[xufan2434]

Just came across another updated today that has Ed at #36 (Sixers) and Tre at #55 (Wizards).

Oh God, please don't let Philly take Ed

Although they definitely lead the league in taking players that are currently injured

[casualfan]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700551-nba-mock-draft-justin-jackson-trending-up-after-march-madness-breakout

This one has Ed going 26.

[nuts4xu]

I have always said that one shouldn't judge teams/coaches/players by tournament success. The tournament is just a weird thing. Teams advance and don't based on many factors, a lot of which are external and out of the teams' control. Better metric is the regular season.

I see your point, and agree to an extent...but many of my favorite memories as a Xavier fan have come from our play in the NCAA tourney. We lost 12 games, and looked terrible in some of those losses this season. But Team95 changed on the fly, and played their best ball in March. This was a successful season because of what we did in the post season, not for going 9-9 in the Big East.

Coaches will be judged on the tournament play, because it translates directly into revenue. The more NCAA tourney wins we have, the more money Xavier can put in their pockets. There have been a lot of schools that lose patience with post season failures. Coaches have been fired for their inability to make/succeed in the big dance.

[GoMuskies]

Skip Prosser's inability to get 'er done in March was sure as hell frustrating. That certainly colors my view of the Prosser era.

[ammtd34]

I have always said that one shouldn't judge teams/coaches/players by tournament success. The tournament is just a weird thing. Teams advance and don't based on many factors, a lot of which are external and out of the teams' control. Better metric is the regular season.

I agree as long as we're talking individual tournament appearances. Take Wisconsin as a painful example. They weren't better than X, but they were that night. At some point, though - and I don't know what the point is - tournament wins or losses become a pattern.

[xufan2434]

I see your point, and agree to an extent...but many of my favorite memories as a Xavier fan have come from our play in the NCAA tourney. We lost 12 games, and looked terrible in some of those losses this season. But Team95 changed on the fly, and played their best ball in March. This was a successful season because of what we did in the post season, not for going 9-9 in the Big East.

Coaches will be judged on the tournament play, because it translates directly into revenue. The more NCAA tourney wins we have, the more money Xavier can put in their pockets. There have been a lot of schools that lose patience with post season failures. Coaches have been fired for their inability to make/succeed in the big dance.

I agree completely with that. And I get all the possibilities that have been mentioned that could have gone either way. The 2012 A-10 win and draw they got in the tournament. And Tre's shot against Butler this year. But guess what... when it keeps happening more years than not, it means the program as a whole knows how to get it done when it matters the most. And that's the best part about being an X fan and culture they've created. It's what separates them from other non blue blood programs.

So while yes, last year's team all together was much better and consistent than this year. This year they had an older Tre and JP that are stone cold and refused to go down. And a big part of playing college ball is to play in March. So to an extent, I think you have to use that as a measuring stick.