Archie Miller To Indiana

[Muskeagle]

Just got an alert that IU is set to announce Archie Miller as their next head coach. I can breathe a little easier.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

UD fans are mourning their loss now and worrying about holding on to their new recruits. It's a big blow to their program but not unexpected.

[bobbiemcgee]

"No Thoughts"

[X-band '01]

Do not, repeat DO NOT, let Indiana get Kelseyed here.

[bjf123]

I wonder if Kelsey knows he's become a verb? I think Indiana has made a great hire. That it sucks for Dayton is a bonus.


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[GuyFawkes38]

The Indiana job is the kind of job that could (maybe likely) ruin your life. But on the other hand, the timing was right for Archie with several graduating seniors. Any possibility that Steele might be a candidate for UD? I don't think so and hoping not.

[drudy23]

The Indiana job is the kind of job that could (maybe likely) ruin your life. But on the other hand, the timing was right for Archie with several graduating seniors. Any possibility that Steele might be a candidate for UD? I don't think so and hoping not.

Wouldn't we want that for Steele?

[GuyFawkes38]

Wouldn't we want that for Steele?

I would love to see Steele stay at X as long as possible. Don't think it would be possible for him to return to X after UD. But definitely a great move for him.

[GIMMFD]

BRB gonna go watch the meltdown over at UD Pride for a little bit.

[LA Muskie]

The Indiana job is the kind of job that could (maybe likely) ruin your life. But on the other hand, the timing was right for Archie with several graduating seniors. Any possibility that Steele might be a candidate for UD? I don't think so and hoping not.

He would be a great candidate but I doubt they could afford the dissention of hiring a Xavier assistant coach. Or worse yet, being spurned by him. (Because I think there's a very good chance he'd decline...)


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[joe titan]

Kelsey to Flyers ?

[drudy23]

You would think Kelsey would have to be in the mix. The Dayton job has to be interesting to him being so close to home.

Hard to know what goes on behind the scenes with all of this.

[Section 200]

Kelsey to Flyers ?

Can you image if Kelsey goes to UD how pissed UMass would be? wow!

[nuts4xu]

I don't know why any school would want Kelsey. I think dude is unstable and would be a risky hire for anyone.

[bleedXblue]

Can you image if Kelsey goes to UD how pissed UMass would be? wow!

Yeah but they have to understand he's from Cincy and would be an hour from home. Makes a lot of sense....and UD has clearly better facilities and a much more recent track record of success.

[bleedXblue]

I don't know why any school would want Kelsey. I think dude is unstable and would be a risky hire for anyone.

b/c he backed out of 1 job?

[LA Muskie]

You would think Kelsey would have to be in the mix. The Dayton job has to be interesting to him being so close to home.

Hard to know what goes on behind the scenes with all of this.

I can't see how he would ever be able to pull that off at this point.


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[xavierj]

b/c he backed out of 1 job?

That and his mini retirement due to "anxiety".

[XUFan09]

That and his mini retirement due to "anxiety".
Don't know why you put that in quotes. He does seem to have real issues with anxiety. The harsh reality is that it could preclude him from handling any high-D1 job.

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[bleedXblue]

That and his mini retirement due to "anxiety".

Aren't we all perfect?

Kelsey has been very stable at Winthrop the last 5 years.

So he went through a tough time b/c of some personal issues. He's human

[XU_Lou]

This is hugely significant. There's no way in hell that IU chose Archie over Mack. I 100% believe that Mack told INDIANA no thanks! I think we can assume that this likely means that Coach Mack will be here for awhile. Sure, I'll be a little nervous when UofL, UK, UNC or Duke become available, but I don't see Mack leaving for a program like OSU, Purdue, Fla or UCLA, etc...

If we win tonight (and yes, I'm feeling it, as have the last 3 games), we need to name the court for Coach Mack the game that follows his 203rd victory next season...

[XU-PA]

BRB gonna go watch the meltdown over at UD Pride for a little bit.
Moans and groans, recruits will bail, but wait we might get a home and home with IU????

[GIMMFD]

This is hugely significant. There's no way in hell that IU chose Archie over Mack. I 100% believe that Mack told INDIANA no thanks! I think we can assume that this likely means that Coach Mack will be here for awhile. Sure, I'll be a little nervous when UofL, UK, UNC or Duke become available, but I don't see Mack leaving for a program like OSU, Purdue, Fla or UCLA, etc...

If we win tonight (and yes, I'm feeling it, as have the last 3 games), we need to name the court for Coach Mack the game that follows his 203rd victory next season...

I don't think that necessarily means Mack told them no. I hope it does, I'd love for him to stay at life at X. He's an incredible coach, and has really grown over the past few years.

[bleedXblue]

I don't think that necessarily means Mack told them no. I hope it does, I'd love for him to stay at life at X. He's an incredible coach, and has really grown over the past few years.

I would say with 99.9% certainty that they reached out to Mack or his agent to see if he was interested.......why the hell would you not?

[Ohionite_X]

Is anyone worried about Archie poaching Travis Steele to the same position at IU? Dude could lock up every Indiana recruit..

[XUMIOH12]

suck it dayton

[nuts4xu]

Aren't we all perfect?

Kelsey has been very stable at Winthrop the last 5 years.

So he went through a tough time b/c of some personal issues. He's human

He also had enough anxiety to back out of a job 30 minutes before a press conference to officially announce his hire.

We don't know all the details, and I am very familiar with anxiety. I am sure Pat is doing what is best for him and his family. He has done a nice job at Winthrop. If/When Mack leaves, I am confident we will have better options than Pat Kelsey.

[AviatorX]

He also had enough anxiety to back out of a job 30 minutes before a press conference to officially announce his hire.

We don't know all the details, and I am very familiar with anxiety. I am sure Pat is doing what is best for him and his family. He has done a nice job at Winthrop. If/When Mack leaves, I am confident we will have better options than Pat Kelsey.

Yeah, I mean no one saying Kelsey isn't an outstanding guy. He already has an incredibly stressful job and has succeeded. The standards are pretty damn high to be a major college basketball coach. Coaching at X vs. Winthrop is a tremendous step up.

[bobbiemcgee]

That and his mini retirement due to "anxiety".

Hope you never have to go thru an anxiety disorder. It's hell. Can't breathe, blood pressure shoots up to 200, fainting spells. Lots of fun on the way to the Hospital. I had it for a year or so after an auto accident. I couldn't drive a car for months without an attack. Had to pull over, popping pills, and try to ride it out.

[waggy]

Hope you never have to go thru an anxiety disorder. It's hell. Can't breathe, blood pressure shoots up to 200, fainting spells. Lots of fun on the way to the Hospital. I had it for a year or so after an auto accident. I couldn't drive a car for months without an attack. Had to pull over, popping pills, and try to ride it out.

Which just means you're not fit to be a latex salesman, let alone X's head coach.

[Masterofreality]

Arch leaves udump.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!! HA!

[bobbiemcgee]

Which just means you're not fit to be a latex salesman, let alone X's head coach.

+2

[XUFan09]

Is anyone worried about Archie poaching Travis Steele to the same position at IU? Dude could lock up every Indiana recruit..
No.

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[Ohionite_X]

Steele used to work on the IU staff, he's from Indiana, and his expertise is recruiting that area. If IU comes calling why would he not take that job? Guarantee he'd make more money and be put into position for better head coaching gigs in the future. I'd be surprised if he's not on Archie's short list.

[Juice]

Steele used to work on the IU staff, he's from Indiana, and his expertise is recruiting that area. If IU comes calling why would he not take that job? Guarantee he'd make more money and be put into position for better head coaching gigs in the future. I'd be surprised if he's not on Archie's short list.

The same Travis Steele that IU fans have accused of "dirty recruiting" over the last several years?

[Ohionite_X]

The same Travis Steele that IU fans have accused of "dirty recruiting" over the last several years?

Indiana fans won't care if he's recruiting for them...

[AviatorX]

Steele used to work on the IU staff, he's from Indiana, and his expertise is recruiting that area. If IU comes calling why would he not take that job? Guarantee he'd make more money and be put into position for better head coaching gigs in the future. I'd be surprised if he's not on Archie's short list.

Archie has his own guys. If he doesn't retain all of his assistants, I'd look for him to add a former IU player or someone with a non-Sampson era connection to the program.

I seriously doubt Steele would leave for another assistant position, especially one that has a significantly lower (actually zero) chance of turning into a HC job.

[Ohionite_X]

Archie has his own guys. If he doesn't retain all of his assistants, I'd look for him to add a former IU player or someone with a non-Sampson era connection to the program.

I seriously doubt Steele would leave for another assistant position, especially one that has a significantly lower (actually zero) chance of turning into a HC job.

I've seen some twitter ramblings about IU looking to hire a stud Indiana recruiter and Steele's name has been mentioned. Obviously all rumors at this point but you never know. You do bring up a good point about the Kelvin Sampson era though.

[AviatorX]

I've seen some twitter ramblings about IU looking to hire a stud Indiana recruiter and Steele's name has been mentioned. Obviously all rumors at this point but you never know. You do bring up a good point about the Kelvin Sampson era though.

Definitely agree with you that it should be a priority for Archie. I just think Associate Head Coach at XU is a really really good spot relative to most assistant coaching positions.

Michael Lewis and Dane Fife are a couple other names getting tossed around. Starting to seem like Fife isn't the guy of the future at MSU with him interviewing at Duquesne of all places.

[ammtd34]

Definitely agree with you that it should be a priority for Archie. I just think Associate Head Coach at XU is a really really good spot relative to most assistant coaching positions.

Michael Lewis and Dane Fife are a couple other names getting tossed around. Starting to seem like Fife isn't the guy of the future at MSU with him interviewing at Duquesne of all places.

I thought Lewis leaving Butler for Nebraska was strange. I heard rumblings that there was more to that than met the eye, but didn't hear anything specific.

.

[Masterofreality]

Arch leaves udump.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!! HA!

I repeat:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........HA!!!!

Let those red sweater wearing Cretins sweat their next below average selection.

[xubrew]

It's actually not that hard to win at Dayton. I think that's even more true now than it was prior to Archie Miller taking over. Any decent coach should be able to dominate the A10 at Dayton considering how much more Dayton has in the way of cash, support, and resources. It's just that Dayton had what was perhaps the world's worst bench coach (well, maybe not the worst, but undeniably awful) and refused to make a change.

Oliver Purnell is a decent coach. Not great. Perhaps not even good. But, Decent. He turned Dayton around quickly and even had them as a protected seed. If he can get Dayton up to a #4 seed, then any decent coach should have them at the top of the A10 and in the 7-seed-ish range of the bracket pretty much all of the time. I think it's an attractive job to a lot of good young coaches for that reason. Dayton just needs to hire someone that doesn't suck, and they'll be fine. Now, let's see if they're able to do that. I have my doubts.

[GoMuskies]

I agree with 'brew. Dayton will get another good coach and will be fine. Miller will probably be fired in 5 years at IU.

[Ohionite_X]

They'll probably take a look at Dane Fife. Although I question his sanity after interviewing for the Duquesne job.

[Muskie]

Some of the Alum aren't happy (Link (http://www.heraldbulletin.com/sports/former-iu-star-kitchel-believes-ad-glass-did-not-live/article_a0673f50-1286-11e7-a7c7-4f68d5d2b06e.html)). At least they appear to be more angry at the AD, and not so much Archie.

[GIMMFD]

Some of the Alum aren't happy (Link (http://www.heraldbulletin.com/sports/former-iu-star-kitchel-believes-ad-glass-did-not-live/article_a0673f50-1286-11e7-a7c7-4f68d5d2b06e.html)). At least they appear to be more angry at the AD, and not so much Archie.

So IU fans really are delusional enough to think Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens were going to come... wow.

EDIT: Nevermind reading the article, he's complaining about former players not getting looks.. even funnier.

[Juice]

So IU fans really are delusional enough to think Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens were going to come... wow.

EDIT: Nevermind reading the article, he's complaining about former players not getting looks.. even funnier.

This is why the program has underachieved.

[xubrew]

Some of the Alum aren't happy (Link (http://www.heraldbulletin.com/sports/former-iu-star-kitchel-believes-ad-glass-did-not-live/article_a0673f50-1286-11e7-a7c7-4f68d5d2b06e.html)). At least they appear to be more angry at the AD, and not so much Archie.

Why is everyone so in love with Dane Fife?

I suppose he could be great. Hell, everyone certainly seems to think so. I know he was at IPFW when they were transitioning, which is never easy on anyone. He never did anything to indicate that he sucked, but he never did anything (at least not that I can see) to indicate that he's a really good head coach. Did he?? This isn't the first guy to go on a rant about how they didn't even consider Dane Fife. I mean....why should IU have considered Dane Fife??

[AviatorX]

Why is everyone so in love with Dane Fife?

I suppose he could be great. Hell, everyone certainly seems to think so. I know he was at IPFW when they were transitioning, which is never easy on anyone. He never did anything to indicate that he sucked, but he never did anything (at least not that I can see) to indicate that he's a really good head coach. Did he?? This isn't the first guy to go on a rant about how they didn't even consider Dane Fife. I mean....why should IU have considered Dane Fife??

He's essentially IU's Pat Kelsey. No one actually thinking critically about the job wanted him anywhere near the bench.

[AviatorX]

This is why the program has underachieved.

Seriously. There are still stories from Sampson's opening presser that he kind of dismissed questions about names on the jerseys and the candy-stripe pants and that indicated he didn't understand/fit the culture. Obviously, Sampson flopped for other reasons but how absurd is that?

Definitely a move in the right direction that Glass ignored the "Indiana ties" argument and got a good solid coach. We'll see what happens.

[Juice]

Why is everyone so in love with Dane Fife?

I suppose he could be great. Hell, everyone certainly seems to think so. I know he was at IPFW when they were transitioning, which is never easy on anyone. He never did anything to indicate that he sucked, but he never did anything (at least not that I can see) to indicate that he's a really good head coach. Did he?? This isn't the first guy to go on a rant about how they didn't even consider Dane Fife. I mean....why should IU have considered Dane Fife??

He's white and people still remember him playing in an IU uniform. It's the perfect recipe for people giving a shit.

[GoMuskies]

Any chance Robert Johnson wants to grad transfer to a real basketball school like, say, Xavier?

[Muskie]

Seriously. There are still stories from Sampson's opening presser that he kind of dismissed questions about names on the jerseys and the candy-stripe pants and that indicated he didn't understand/fit the culture. Obviously, Sampson flopped for other reasons but how absurd is that?

Definitely a move in the right direction that Glass ignored the "Indiana ties" argument and got a good solid coach. We'll see what happens. What's weird about it though is previously Glass stated he had a preference for someone with Indiana ties. It looks like he gave tacit interviews to the only people with IU ties available. I suppose he couldn't come right out and say. We want Steve Alford, but based on what I see versus what he said, it seems that's who he was eyeing.

[Muskie]

Why is everyone so in love with Dane Fife?

I suppose he could be great. Hell, everyone certainly seems to think so. I know he was at IPFW when they were transitioning, which is never easy on anyone. He never did anything to indicate that he sucked, but he never did anything (at least not that I can see) to indicate that he's a really good head coach. Did he?? This isn't the first guy to go on a rant about how they didn't even consider Dane Fife. I mean....why should IU have considered Dane Fife?? I don't get it either.

[AviatorX]

What's weird about it though is previously Glass stated he had a preference for someone with Indiana ties. It looks like he gave tacit interviews to the only people with IU ties available. I suppose he couldn't come right out and say. We want Steve Alford, but based on what I see versus what he said, it seems that's who he was eyeing.

Agreed. I really think he got SIGNIFICANT blowback on Alford both from fans and a lot of HS/AAU coaches he talked to across the state. I also think the latter group was probably really high on Archie.

Everything I heard indicated Alford would take the job in about 10 seconds and I agree with you completely that it seems Glass envisioned that happening at first.

[AviatorX]

Any chance Robert Johnson wants to grad transfer to a real basketball school like, say, Xavier?

Definitely some talk that he might explore that option. Unfortunately it's usually speculated he would play closer to home. He would be basically exactly what X needs in the backcourt.

[bobbiemcgee]

Archie poaching UD's top recruit?
McKinley Wright -
"Wright told KSTP that he will wait and see who Dayton hires as its next coach before he makes a college decision. He added that he has an invitation to join Miller at Indiana, and that other schools like Minnesota have reached out to one of his coaches.
In other words, Wright will have many options if he re-opens his recruiting."

[XUFan09]

Archie poaching UD's top recruit?
McKinley Wright -
"Wright told KSTP that he will wait and see who Dayton hires as its next coach before he makes a college decision. He added that he has an invitation to join Miller at Indiana, and that other schools like Minnesota have reached out to one of his coaches.
In other words, Wright will have many options if he re-opens his recruiting."

Of course he has an invitation. Really, it would do a disservice to a kid with whom you formed a relationship to not leave the door open for him to follow you.

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[Muskie]

If Archie is smart he hires Calbert Cheney. He's got some years of experience under Crews and he's an IU and Big Ten legend.


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[GIMMFD]

Of course he has an invitation. Really, it would do a disservice to a kid with whom you formed a relationship to not leave the door open for him to follow you.

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You think IU fans would be happy with "Dayton recruits"??? I could only imagine the back-lash of not having only 4-5 stars in the class if this is how they're acting about Fife and other things...

[Juice]

Archie poaching UD's top recruit?
McKinley Wright -
"Wright told KSTP that he will wait and see who Dayton hires as its next coach before he makes a college decision. He added that he has an invitation to join Miller at Indiana, and that other schools like Minnesota have reached out to one of his coaches.
In other words, Wright will have many options if he re-opens his recruiting."

Not that it really matters, but is that considered tampering or whatever since the kid has a LOI with UD?

[Masterofreality]

Not that it really matters, but is that considered tampering or whatever since the kid has a LOI with UD?

Well, remember Kevin Parrom? He was all set to start driving a Buick, until someone sold him on a Lexus. :wink:

[XUMIOH12]

Archie poaching UD's top recruit?
McKinley Wright -
"Wright told KSTP that he will wait and see who Dayton hires as its next coach before he makes a college decision. He added that he has an invitation to join Miller at Indiana, and that other schools like Minnesota have reached out to one of his coaches.
In other words, Wright will have many options if he re-opens his recruiting."

Dayton's best recruit is an unranked 3 star? Ouch.......and LOL

[XUMIOH12]

You think IU fans would be happy with "Dayton recruits"??? I could only imagine the back-lash of not having only 4-5 stars in the class if this is how they're acting about Fife and other things...

I don't know what their scholarship/roster situation is like; but it definitely seems like their fans would be pissed about a recruit that isn't "big time".

[xu82]

I don't know what their scholarship/roster situation is like; but it definitely seems like their fans would be pissed about a recruit that isn't "big time".

Empty chairs would suck too!

[XUMIOH12]

Empty chairs would suck too!

try telling that to Indiana fans lol!

[Juice]

Dayton's best recruit is an unranked 3 star? Ouch.......and LOL

They did have Giannis Antetokounmpo's younger brother red shirting all season.

[XUMIOH12]

They did have Giannis Antetokounmpo's younger brother red shirting all season.

yeah, Kostas. But still, they have 4 incoming recruits and none are all that highly regarded.

[GIMMFD]

yeah, Kostas. But still, they have 4 incoming recruits and none are all that highly regarded.

Really? On UD Pride when I went to go snoop around they were talking like it was their class of the century....

[XUFan09]

Dayton's best recruit is an unranked 3 star? Ouch.......and LOL
And he's a guy that Xavier was recruiting. Wright was a really good pickup for UD.

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[GoMuskies]

Either we weren't recruiting him very hard, or he's kinda dumb.

[X-band '01]

Really? On UD Pride when I went to go snoop around

This is why you'll go blind when you get older.

[AviatorX]

Either we weren't recruiting him very hard, or he's kinda dumb.

He was a backup option to Scruggs for sure, but Wright is a pretty good recruit.

[ammtd34]

He was a backup option to Scruggs for sure, but Wright is a pretty good recruit.

He was just named Minnesota Mr. Basketball, too. IU didn't have a fucntional PG this year and have a weak recruiting class coming in (if they all decide to come). Wright would be fine there.

[AviatorX]

He was just named Minnesota Mr. Basketball, too. IU didn't have a fucntional PG this year and have a weak recruiting class coming in (if they all decide to come). Wright would be fine there.

Yeah, the balance from an IU perspective is do they grind out another year with Newkirk/Green at the point and go all in on some of their high level 2018 PG targets or take a potential reach in Wright and scare those guys off a bit. I think Wright will end up at UD. Hopefully he will have a better career than Jordan Latham who was a similar "statement" recruit for Mack.

[GIMMFD]

Yeah, the balance from an IU perspective is do they grind out another year with Newkirk/Green at the point and go all in on some of their high level 2018 PG targets or take a potential reach in Wright and scare those guys off a bit. I think Wright will end up at UD. Hopefully he will have a better career than Jordan Latham who was a similar "statement" recruit for Mack.

Yeah but luckily it didn't effect us too much and Mack made up for it pretty well ;)

[AviatorX]

Yeah but luckily it didn't effect us too much and Mack made up for it pretty well ;)

Definitely. Not a criticism of Mack at all. I just remember the feeling of having really reeled in a big one getting Latham to recommit. Funny how it works out.

[Muskie]

"Miller even had a phrase for the strategy – Inside/Out.Start with Indiana prospects. Add kids from Big Ten areas. Chase the national guys that you believe you can sign. Fill in the blanks with international players if necessary."

Looks like the battle for Indiana HS kids is going to heat up.

I

[Masterofreality]

"Miller even had a phrase for the strategy – Inside/Out.Start with Indiana prospects. Add kids from Big Ten areas. Chase the national guys that you believe you can sign. Fill in the blanks with international players if necessary."

Looks like the battle for Indiana HS kids is going to heat up.

I



Travis "Steal" has a leg up. Takes time to develop those relationships & Archie didn't exactly cultivate the state of Indiana from the dump.

There wasn't a single...not one....Cryer player from the Hoosier State. Good luck getting in there Arch.

[MADXSTER]

"Miller even had a phrase for the strategy – Inside/Out.Start with Indiana prospects. Add kids from Big Ten areas. Chase the national guys that you believe you can sign. Fill in the blanks with international players if necessary."

Looks like the battle for Indiana HS kids is going to heat up.





Yup, my concern is how it may effect Xavier recruiting. If Indiana gets back on track then who knows.

[xavierj]

Travis "Steal" has a leg up. Takes time to develop those relationships & Archie didn't exactly cultivate the state of Indiana from the dump.

There wasn't a single...not one....Cryer player from the Hoosier State. Good luck getting in there Arch.

Wasn't the kid who passed from Indiana?

[Masterofreality]

Wasn't the kid who passed from Indiana?

I'm referring to this year's active roster.

[AviatorX]

Wasn't the kid who passed from Indiana?

Yes, Ft. Wayne.

Also, we are kidding ourselves if we think Archie won't be significantly tougher to recruit against in Indiana than the Crean regime was, especially at the end. I mean, Crean wasn't even in the running on decision day for Scruggs, Wilkes, Jackson, and Williams in 2017. No chance that happens again.

[Masterofreality]

Yes, Ft. Wayne.

Also, we are kidding ourselves if we think Archie won't be significantly tougher to recruit against in Indiana than the Crean regime was, especially at the end. I mean, Crean wasn't even in the running on decision day for Scruggs, Wilkes, Jackson, and Williams in 2017. No chance that happens again.

Hmmmm. The 2013/2014 Hoosier roster had 10, count 'em TEN Indiana products on it. The 2014/2015 roster had 6 Indiana products on it including Blackmon, Ferrell and Davis. The 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 rosters also had 6. Despite that, Travis Steal still got some gems from Indiana.

Archie has no cred with the High School and local AAU coaches...yet- especially the ones from in and around Indianapolis. He does have Assembly Hall behind him that could influence, but Arch will have to prove his stripes before the locals will buy in. Travis has lots of cred. How do you think he extracted Tre and Paul from that state, among others?

Until Archie proves he can, you know, actually win in Bloomington, he'll be doing lots of selling, and we'll see who buys.

[LA Muskie]

Schools hire coaches from out of the area all the time. It doesn't take all that long to make footholds. Just look at Sean Miller at Arizona...


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[AviatorX]

Schools hire coaches from out of the area all the time. It doesn't take all that long to make footholds. Just look at Sean Miller at Arizona...


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Yeah exactly. Not to mention the fact that many of the influencers in Indiana recruitments (not necessarily HS or AAU coaches, honestly don't really think HS coaches matter at all in most Indiana recruitments) are looking for reasons why it's a good idea to go to IU. Bluiett and Scruggs are weird examples to cite if we want to talk about the importance of about gaining traction with Indiana coaches.

No doubt Steele does and will continue to do a great job in the area, but we would rather him be going up against Crean and Chuck Martin who is more tied to the East Coast than Archie and whoever he adds to his staff. No question.

[xu82]

Schools hire coaches from out of the area all the time. It doesn't take all that long to make footholds. Just look at Sean Miller at Arizona...


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I'd be shocked if his hiring of a staff isn't geared to get deep into the Indiana network. It may take some time, but... I hope we can continue our successs there, and I'm optimistic!

[Juice]

I think Archie is going to have a lot of momentum early on in recruiting within the state simply because he isn't Crean. There will be an excitement and newness (is that a word?) about him.

[MADXSTER]

Hmmmm. The 2013/2014 Hoosier roster had 10, count 'em TEN Indiana products on it. The 2014/2015 roster had 6 Indiana products on it including Blackmon, Ferrell and Davis. The 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 rosters also had 6. Despite that, Travis Steal still got some gems from Indiana.

Archie has no cred with the High School and local AAU coaches...yet- especially the ones from in and around Indianapolis. He does have Assembly Hall behind him that could influence, but Arch will have to prove his stripes before the locals will buy in. Travis has lots of cred. How do you think he extracted Tre and Paul from that state, among others?

Until Archie proves he can, you know, actually win in Bloomington, he'll be doing lots of selling, and we'll see who buys.

I'm pretty sure a number of them are walkons.

[bleedXblue]

I think Archie is going to have a lot of momentum early on in recruiting within the state simply because he isn't Crean. There will be an excitement and newness (is that a word?) about him.

But he was so well liked according to some posters.....LOL

[AviatorX]

But he was so well liked according to some posters.....LOL

Yeah, feel free to keep misrepresenting what I said. My point was (and it's still true) Crean had some important boosters and Fred Glass in his corner until the last possible minute. There's a reason he survived missing the tournament in 13/14, barely sneaking in and taking a first round loss in 14/15, and sucking the first half of 15/16. A lot of people and media outlets thought he was safe up until 10 minutes before he got fired.

Also, he was well liked enough to go 4 straight years with signing a McDonald's AA, two from Indiana. But keep at it! You definitely know more than me on this one.

[bleedXblue]

Yeah, feel free to keep misrepresenting what I said. My point was (and it's still true) Crean had some important boosters and Fred Glass in his corner until the last possible minute. There's a reason he survived missing the tournament in 13/14, barely sneaking in and taking a first round loss in 14/15, and sucking the first half of 15/16. A lot of people and media outlets thought he was safe up until 10 minutes before he got fired.

Also, he was well liked enough to go 4 straight years with signing a McDonald's AA, two from Indiana. But keep at it! You definitely know more than me on this one.

I'm not really sure how I misrepresented anything you said.......you said he was well liked and I don't think he is.

Of course he had some boosters who liked him. What does IU have a couple hundred thousand alumni? Of course the AD is in his corner.......until he realizes its Crean or him that will be leaving.

We can disagree, that's ok.

What will really be telling is where Crean ends up.

My guess is that it will be a bottom feeder major conference school who's desperate to attract a "name" in hopes of a reviving a program.

[xavierj]

Xavier has only had 4 players from Indiana since 2008. During the Miller/Matta spell they had 4 in one year.

[Juice]

I'm not really sure how I misrepresented anything you said.......you said he was well liked and I don't think he is.

Of course he had some boosters who liked him. What does IU have a couple hundred thousand alumni? Of course the AD is in his corner.......until he realizes its Crean or him that will be leaving.

We can disagree, that's ok.

What will really be telling is where Crean ends up.

My guess is that it will be a bottom feeder major conference school who's desperate to attract a "name" in hopes of a reviving a program.

I think Crean is a good coach. He's just an ass and isn't good enough for IU and their insane fans. He got to a Final 4 at Marquette and won the Big Ten a few times. These things don't happen by accident.

[Masterofreality]

Schools hire coaches from out of the area all the time. It doesn't take all that long to make footholds. Just look at Sean Miller at Arizona...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Different. Sean Miller took Book Richardson with him and kept getting New York recruits. Arizona isn't a hotbed of talent like Indiana is and people, especially from California are more mobile by nature.

Apples & Oranges.

[Caf]

Archie Miller Buys Into the Mythology of Indiana Basketball - Mark Titus (https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b)

Great read on the subject.

[paulxu]

It's interesting to what extent a person will go to make a point.
This quote was in the article with a link:


and has a long history of recruiting Indiana that should only get stronger.

The link takes you to one recruit he made 10 years ago. In the last 6 years at Dayton he has had one Indiana recruit.
That doesn't scream "long history."

But the article was a good recap. It's point about Indiana having the most rabid fans might have overlooked Kentucky, where they are still phoning in death threats to the ref from their loss to North Carolina.

[Masterofreality]

Archie Miller Buys Into the Mythology of Indiana Basketball - Mark Titus (https://theringer.com/archie-miller-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-tom-crean-dbe7b96b398b)

Great read on the subject.

Well, Archie should feel right at home since this sentence from the article 100% accurately reflects the dump he just left:

" To an outsider, Indiana is a college basketball dinosaur supported by a delusional fan base hell-bent on returning to glory days that have long since passed."

It's also kind of funny that Titus played at Ohio State but is more of an Indiana fan. How the F does that work? That would be akin to me being a SucKS fan. WHAT?

[GIMMFD]

Xavier has only had 4 players from Indiana since 2008. During the Miller/Matta spell they had 4 in one year.

Justin Martin, Dee Davis, Trevon Blueitt, and Paul Scruggs? Really those are the only 4 since 08???

[JTG]

This article perfectly described the average Hoosier fan. I've lived here for 67 years and am amazed at the level of delusion. The most delusional being the 40 to 70 age group. To them it's still 1987, and they're waiting for Bobby to come walking thru the door. Over heard at Miller's introductory presser: 2 20 somethings and a middle age guy, middle age guy " well he ain't no Bobby" 20 somethings, Bobby ain't done a fucking thing for IU in 17 years.

[MADXSTER]

Justin Martin, Dee Davis, Trevon Blueitt, and Paul Scruggs? Really those are the only 4 since 08???

Jordan Crawford and Remy Abel transferred from IU to X and Tu was supposed to go to IU. Not exactly HS recruits but Indiana connections all the same.

[joe titan]

Crawford was from Detroit & Remy from Louisville so not really IN recruits.

[xavierj]

Justin Martin, Dee Davis, Trevon Blueitt, and Paul Scruggs? Really those are the only 4 since 08???

Jeff Robinson, didn't count Scruggs, so he is 5.

[xavierj]

Jordan Crawford and Remy Abel transferred from IU to X and Tu was supposed to go to IU. Not exactly HS recruits but Indiana connections all the same.

Crawford was recruited by Miller and Xavier recruited him out of high school, in Detroit, but he went to Indiana.

[Juice]

Well, Archie should feel right at home since this sentence from the article 100% accurately reflects the dump he just left:

" To an outsider, Indiana is a college basketball dinosaur supported by a delusional fan base hell-bent on returning to glory days that have long since passed."

It's also kind of funny that Titus played at Ohio State but is more of an Indiana fan. How the F does that work? That would be akin to me being a SucKS fan. WHAT?

He was born and raised in Brownsburg, Indiana. He played on the AAU team with Oden, Daquan Cook, Mike Conley, and Josh McRoberts.

[LA Muskie]

Different. Sean Miller took Book Richardson with him and kept getting New York recruits. Arizona isn't a hotbed of talent like Indiana is and people, especially from California are more mobile by nature.

Apples & Oranges.

Ah, the logical fallacy of taking a few differences and making them determinative...

Like his brother, Archie will do just fine on the recruiting trail. I guess one could say the apple -- or, if you prefer, the orange -- doesn't fall far from the tree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

Ah, the logical fallacy of taking a few differences and making them determinative...

Like his brother, Archie will do just fine on the recruiting trail. I guess one could say the apple -- or, if you prefer, the orange -- doesn't fall far from the tree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, assumptions and speculations like "he will do just fine" are inadmissible in court counselor. How can you possibly know that? #CaseDissmissed

[GIMMFD]

He was born and raised in Brownsburg, Indiana. He played on the AAU team with Oden, Daquan Cook, Mike Conley, and Josh McRoberts.

Dear god, how did that AAU team ever lose???

[Caf]

Like his brother, Archie will do just fine on the recruiting trail. I guess one could say the apple -- or, if you prefer, the orange -- doesn't fall far from the tree.

In my view, if he was able get decent players to go to Dayton, he'll be just fine at Indiana.

[ammtd34]

Dear god, how did that AAU team ever lose???

They didn't. Conley and Oden played on the same high school team, too. The best high school atmosphere I ever saw was when they played at Bloomington South.

[Masterofreality]

They didn't. Conley and Oden played on the same high school team, too. The best high school atmosphere I ever saw was when they played at Bloomington South.

The same High School as the illustrious Dee Davis. #TravisSteal

[LA Muskie]

Ah, assumptions and speculations like "he will do just fine" are inadmissible in court counselor. How can you possibly know that? #CaseDissmissed

It's definitely both an assumption and a speculation. But one I would bet on -- if I was a betting man.

[GoMuskies]

It's definitely both an assumption and a speculation. But one I would bet on -- if I was a betting man.

I would wager that Archie Miller will never take Indiana as far as Gregg Marshall has already taken Wichita State. And Indiana fans will look back on their failure to hire Marshall when they had the chance with much sorrow and regret.

[bleedXblue]

IU job is just not what it was 20 years ago.........Can it get back there.......??

[xubrew]

Indiana was a great job when it had a hall of fame coach. It's funny how much better a program is when they have a HOF coach.

[xubrew]

I would wager that Archie Miller will never take Indiana as far as Gregg Marshall has already taken Wichita State. And Indiana fans will look back on their failure to hire Marshall when they had the chance with much sorrow and regret.

I had to think for a second, but I agree. I don't think he'll ever make a Final Four, or earn a #1 ranking, or earn a #1 seed while at Indiana. Much less do all three. It's very easy for me to agree with what you're proclaiming here.

[XU 87]

Indiana was a great job when it had a hall of fame coach. It's funny how much better a program is when they have a HOF coach.

And that HOF coach didn't do so well his last 6 years at IU, when compared to his previous 25.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Knight

[AviatorX]

I had to think for a second, but I agree. I don't think he'll ever make a Final Four, or earn a #1 ranking, or earn a #1 seed while at Indiana. Much less do all three. It's very easy for me to agree with what you're proclaiming here.

Also not really a stretch to say Marshall (or anyone) wouldn't get that done. Or that Marshall won't touch it again at Wichita.

Crean got the ranking and the seed relatively quickly and everyone on here thinks he sucks. We shall see.

[XU 87]

Also not really a stretch to say Marshall (or anyone) wouldn't get that done. Or that Marshall won't touch it again at Wichita.

Crean got the ranking and the seed relatively quickly and everyone on here thinks he sucks. We shall see.

I for one don't think Crean "sucked". He had some success there.

It's just IU wants to get back to the golden years of the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Crean obviously didn't do that, and he has had long enough to try.

I still think Crean is an a-hole though.

[xubrew]

Also not really a stretch to say Marshall (or anyone) wouldn't get that done. Or that Marshall won't touch it again at Wichita.

Crean got the ranking and the seed relatively quickly and everyone on here thinks he sucks. We shall see.

The one thing that Gregg Marshall has done throughout his career that impresses me the most is how he's won big with less. Most people don't remember his Winthrop teams, but he had Winthrop in the top 25. In his last season there, they played four top ten teams on the road, and although they didn't win any of them, they were all close games from what I remember, and at least one of them was an overtime loss. They lost to no one else, finished the season in the rankings, was seeded inside the bubble in the NCAA Tournament which is UNHEARD OF in the Big South, and made it out of the first round. Winthrop was not a Big South frontrunner, and I htink had only been seeded better than #16th once or twice before he got there.

When he got to Wichita, they were a complete shit show. Now they're are nationally relevant. I think they were outside the top 200 when he arrived, or close to it. To take a non-power team from that to where he's taken them is not almost unheard of, it is COMPLETELY unheard of. No one else has done it.

Archie Miller is good, and I can see him doing well at Indiana. I felt his best coaching job was the year after the Elite Eight when they had all those injuries and suspensions, and were down to a six player rotation with no inside game, and they still did as well as the did. But having said that, Dayton is set up to be successful. They dwarf the rest of their conference when it comes to the support, resources, and money in terms of basketball. Anyone who's decent should be able to win at Dayton at the level that he's been winning at. Oliver Purnell won at Dayton and had them as a #4 seed. OLIVER PURNELL!!!

I know Gregg Marshall is a little crazy, and that his wife is perhaps more than just a little crazy, and that he may not be the easiest guy for an administration to deal with. But when it comes to how good of a coach he is and how successful he's been at two different places that were pretty much big piles of shit when he got there, there is no comparison. Marshall is the much better coach and would have been the much better choice (if all things were equal).

[Xville]

I had to think for a second, but I agree. I don't think he'll ever make a Final Four, or earn a #1 ranking, or earn a #1 seed while at Indiana. Much less do all three. It's very easy for me to agree with what you're proclaiming here.

I disagree. I think Crean has been riding a final four trip with Dwayne wade for a long time and is actually not a very good coach at all. He can recruit but really how hard is that to do at Indiana? He didn't take one Indiana team past the sweet sixteen and had ridiculous talent on the team quite a few years. I think Archie has proven himself to do quite well with little and I expect him to do some great things at IU. Btw not taking anything away from Marshall, just saying with the resources that IU has, I believe Archie can do all those things...if I had to choose between Archie or Tom crean as my favorite teams basketball coach, it would be Archie 10 times out of 10.

[xubrew]

I disagree. I think Crean has been riding a final four trip with Dwayne wade for a long time and is actually not a very good coach at all. He can recruit but really how hard is that to do at Indiana? He didn't take one Indiana team past the sweet sixteen and had ridiculous talent on the team quite a few years. I think Archie has proven himself to do quite well with little and I expect him to do some great things at IU.

Quite well with little??

Dayton has TWICE as much as what the rest of the league has. They outdraw and outspend several power programs. They actually spend more on basketball than Xavier does, and they're competing against the A10. They spend over $5 million a year on basketball. That's just under what Xavier spends on basketball. They've got more than a little, especially when you compare it to who it is they're competing against. Had Archie Miller gone to Duquesne and won at the level he did at Dayton, then that would be doing a lot with a little. ANYBODY that's decent should be able to win at Dayton. They have so much more to work with than anyone else they compete against.

[bigdiggins]

Quite well with little??

Dayton has TWICE as much as what the rest of the league has. They outdraw and outspend several power programs. They actually spend more on basketball than Xavier does, and they're competing against the A10. They spend over $5 million a year on basketball. That's just under what Xavier spends on basketball. They've got more than a little, especially when you compare it to who it is they're competing against.

Covered your bases there.

[XU 87]

But having said that, Dayton is set up to be successful. They dwarf the rest of their conference when it comes to the support, resources, and money in terms of basketball. Anyone who's decent should be able to win at Dayton at the level that he's been winning at. Oliver Purnell won at Dayton and had them as a #4 seed. OLIVER PURNELL!!!



And then UD promptly got beat badly by the 13 seed.

[xubrew]

Covered your bases there.

Ahh, good catch. When X was in the A10 UD spent more than we did. Left that part out.


And then UD promptly got beat badly by the 13 seed.

In a way I think that actually furthers my point. It's not that hard to dominate the teams they typically play. They didn't beat the #13 seed, but they were still set up to earn a #4 seed, and it was the best seed that Oliver Purnell ever earned if I'm not mistaken.

Look at Dayton. Look at what they have. Look at who they compete against. Compare that to what Wichita State WAS when Marshall got there. I don't think there's any question as to who did more, and who had less.

[paulxu]

I know Gregg Marshall is a little crazy, and that his wife is perhaps more than just a little crazy, and that he may not be the easiest guy for an administration to deal with. But when it comes to how good of a coach he is and how successful he's been at two different places that were pretty much big piles of shit when he got there, there is no comparison. Marshall is the much better coach and would have been the much better choice (if all things were equal).

Let's see if I've got this right. IU could have had Marshall, but went with Miller. It might be because Mrs. Marshall is a tad more crazy than Mrs. Miller.
Did I get it? Is she also better looking?

[xubrew]

Let's see if I've got this right. IU could have had Marshall, but went with Miller. It might be because Mrs. Marshall is a tad more crazy than Mrs. Miller.
Did I get it? Is she also better looking?

There's that. There is the cost of the buyout. And the pressure from the boosters.

But yes. Probably that too.

[Masterofreality]

Indiana was a great job when it had a hall of fame coach. It's funny how much better a program is when they have a HOF coach.

You mean like Chris Mack vs Tay Baker?

[GoMuskies]

You mean like Chris Mack vs Tay Baker?

Tay Baker is a Lebanon High School hall of famer. So he's got that going for him.

[Masterofreality]

The Ass10 is Turing into a complete dumpster fire. The two top programs in the league BOTH lost their coaches to other programs. UMess finally fired Slick Kellogg...the John Slimy Calamari recommended Slick Kellogg....and the only hope in that whole league right now is Hurley at Rhodee and maybe Davidson. Mark Schmidt and Martelli will be "every-other-year" respectable but the rest of that Gawd Forsaken league is flotsam & jetsam.

Never consider udump or Very Common U to join the BE. Light years difference. Glad all of that garbage has died down.
Live in your cesspool Cryers.

[Xville]

Quite well with little??

Dayton has TWICE as much as what the rest of the league has. They outdraw and outspend several power programs. They actually spend more on basketball than Xavier does, and they're competing against the A10. They spend over $5 million a year on basketball. That's just under what Xavier spends on basketball. They've got more than a little, especially when you compare it to who it is they're competing against. Had Archie Miller gone to Duquesne and won at the level he did at Dayton, then that would be doing a lot with a little. ANYBODY that's decent should be able to win at Dayton. They have so much more to work with than anyone else they compete against.

I was more speaking to the level of talent and recruiting. Resources only go so far...its still Dayton. If Archie can recruit to the level of Crean which honestly should not be that difficult factoring in the ridiculous abundance of talent in Indiana, then I think Archie can do more with that talent than Crean ever did. That was my point. I think a final four, #1 ranking and #1 seed can all be attained.

[LA Muskie]

I would wager that Archie Miller will never take Indiana as far as Gregg Marshall has already taken Wichita State. And Indiana fans will look back on their failure to hire Marshall when they had the chance with much sorrow and regret.
Well Gregg Marshall had them in the Final Four. So you're not exactly going out on a limb there. As we all know, cracking the Final Four is incredibly difficult for all but a handful of blue bloods to achieve (and even those schools miss out more often than not). It requires advantageous matchups and a good deal of luck. So if I were a betting man (and once again, I'm not), I'd probably be on your side of that bet.

Frankly, I'm not even convinced Archie's raw numbers will be all that better than Crean's (if at all). Looked at in a vacuum, Crean's numbers are pretty damn good. But I do think Archie will succeed in the general sense, and in particular I think he will return the program to a degree of esteem and respect that Crean -- probably because of his personality -- could not seem to maintain.

Whether that will satisfy IU's delusional fanbase is anyone's guess...

[GoMuskies]

OK, I'll go out further on a limb then. I would wager that Marshall will have more success from here on out at Wichita State (assuming he stays for the duration) than Archie will have at IU.

[LA Muskie]

OK, I'll go out further on a limb then. I would wager that Marshall will have more success from here on out at Wichita State (assuming he stays for the duration) than Archie will have at IU.
I'd be inclined to pick Archie, depending on how "success" is defined for this purpose. But I certainly wouldn't fault you for thinking otherwise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense Marshall's still at Wichita State because no one wants him. I get the sense he's either happy to stay where he is, locked in contractually, or a bit of both. (He did, however, seem justifiably pissed about their seeding this year.)

[GoMuskies]

I think he'd leave for the right opportunity. But with IU not really showing interest (apparently; I mean it's possible they called and begged his agent and he said no, but I think not), the number of jobs he'd leave for that he might actually get is dwindling to about nil. He's definitely a different guy. Stuck around at Winthrop for 9 years despite 7 NCAA Tournament appearances. You know he had plenty of opportunities to leave Winthrop with that resume.

He apparently is in some strange middle ground. He's the white whale that no one can pull in for the "middle level" power conference jobs (the South Carolina, Alabama, Missouri, Illinois of the world). But the true "blue bloods" don't seem to want to touch him. It's worked out fantastically well for Wichita.

[xavierj]

OK, I'll go out further on a limb then. I would wager that Marshall will have more success from here on out at Wichita State (assuming he stays for the duration) than Archie will have at IU.

Marshall gets away with a pretty weak schedule and a bad conference. What's his scheduling philosophy all about? Typically a sos of schedule in the triple digits. Plus an 11-13 NCAA record. He sure gets a lot of run off that final 4.

[GoMuskies]

Plus an 11-13 NCAA record.

That includes 1-7 at Winthrop. He's 10-6 at Wichita State, including winning at least one NCAA Tournament game each of the past five years (and multiple games in 3 of those years). Do you remember the last time Xavier did that? No one does.

[xubrew]

OK, I'll go out further on a limb then. I would wager that Marshall will have more success from here on out at Wichita State (assuming he stays for the duration) than Archie will have at IU.

Bold. And perhaps correct.

[AviatorX]

I'll take Archie at IU over Marshall at Wichita any day of the week. Not even a tough call personally. If Archie recruits like I think he will at IU, there aren't very many people who can make up for that talent difference in X's and O's, and Archie isn't bad at that aspect of it either. There's a reason he's been the hot name for a few years now. I think he is underrated on this board for obvious reasons. What is Wichita's seed ceiling in the current MVC? Doesn't look great, and it's hard to consistently make deep runs starting as a 6 plus seed. Only time will tell I guess.

Honestly, the way things have started breaking at IU, Archie might have a pretty damn solid roster next season. 2018 class is really strong in Indiana, and Archie will be riding the "new guy" wave...

EDIT: Forgot about WSU to the AAC...although not sure how much higher the ceiling for seeding is considering UC and SMU this year.

[GoMuskies]

I'd be inclined to pick Archie, depending on how "success" is defined for this purpose.

Yeah, to be apples to apples, it has to involve the NCAA Tournament. I mean, Wichita is going to have to deal with the AAC soon. They don't get a creampuff ride through the Big Ten like IU. :)

[paulxu]

That includes 1-7 at Winthrop. He's 10-6 at Wichita State, including winning at least one NCAA Tournament game each of the past five years (and multiple games in 3 of those years). Do you remember the last time Xavier did that? No one does.

I think Marshall is a good coach. That said, whenever someone has a magical run to the FF, it seems like extra praise gets throw in.
He's been at WSU for 10 years. He has 2 S16's and 1 E8...and the magical FF.
Mack has been here for 8 years, has 4 S16's and 1 E8...just needs to get the magical FF I guess.
Marshall's got a good thing going with Koch money. But it's not like he's the second coming.

[GoMuskies]

I think Marshall is a good coach. That said, whenever someone has a magical run to the FF, it seems like extra praise gets throw in.
He's been at WSU for 10 years. He has 2 S16's and 1 E8...and the magical FF.
Mack has been here for 8 years, has 4 S16's and 1 E8...just needs to get the magical FF I guess.
Marshall's got a good thing going with Koch money. But it's not like he's the second coming.

OK, but you're comparing Xavier to Wichita State. And you're also ignoring what he did at Winthrop, which was nothing short of miraculous, and the program he inherited at WSU (which was kind of a joke). When Marshall got to WSU, they'd been to ONE NCAA Tournament in the previous 20 years. ONE.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Did anyone notice McCall out of Charleston to UMass for $3.5M? This is Martin in Missouri money for doing nothing. Few and Mack should get some kind of raise.

[xubrew]

I think Marshall is a good coach. That said, whenever someone has a magical run to the FF, it seems like extra praise gets throw in.
He's been at WSU for 10 years. He has 2 S16's and 1 E8...and the magical FF.
Mack has been here for 8 years, has 4 S16's and 1 E8...just needs to get the magical FF I guess.
Marshall's got a good thing going with Koch money. But it's not like he's the second coming.

Two Sweet Sixteens in ten years at Wichita State, who was ranked somewhere around 200 when he got there, is rather remarkable. If you just cut it off there, that's still pretty damn good. He's done more than that. Xavier wasn't ranked 200th when Chris Mack took them over. There wasn't an entire building project that had to go into it. We were already pretty damn good.

I agree that single Final Four runs can be overrated, but he did a lot more than just go to a Final Four. If anything, that Final Four team probably ranks third in all of the teams he's had there. It's just that the other two teams (11-12, and 14-15) were underrated because of the lack of a tournament run.

[GoMuskies]

Did anyone notice McCall out of Charleston to UMass for $3.5M? This is Martin in Missouri money for doing nothing. Few and Mack should get some kind of raise.

It's $750k per year. It's in line.

[AviatorX]

Did anyone notice McCall out of Charleston to UMass for $3.5M? This is Martin in Missouri money for doing nothing. Few and Mack should get some kind of raise.

Wasn't that 3.5 million total?

[X-band '01]

Did anyone notice McCall out of Charleston to UMass for $3.5M? This is Martin in Missouri money for doing nothing. Few and Mack should get some kind of raise.

McCall was from Chattanooga, not Charleston. That's also curious when you consider that Chattanooga went to the NCAA Tournament in 2015 but fell completely off the table after the first half of SoCon play this year. They lost to freaking VMI by double-digits at home.

[GIMMFD]

It's $750k per year. It's in line.

If he was making $3.5mil a year, Mack would deserve Calipari type of money. That would have changed coaching contract negotiations and really caused a dumpster fire lol.

[bobbiemcgee]

I was more speaking to the level of talent and recruiting. Resources only go so far...its still Dayton. If Archie can recruit ....

Spotted him @ the Bloomington Dunkin' Donuts with McKinley W.

[xubrew]

OK, I'll go out further on a limb then. I would wager that Marshall will have more success from here on out at Wichita State (assuming he stays for the duration) than Archie will have at IU.

Yunno, it's possible that next year's Wichita team could be better than any team that Archie ever has at Indiana. You may be proven correct rather soon.

[X-band '01]

Bruiser Flint is going to be an assistant to Archie Miller.

No, seriously. This is not an April Fools gag.