Creighton Beat-writer weighs in on X (and Butler)

[Muskie]

Link (http://www.omaha.com/creighton/mens-basketball/chatelain-jays-have-matched-success-of-big-east-peers-butler/article_7cec383b-bed0-5caa-9473-1b70226c4a86.html)

Creighton is still seeking its first Sweet 16 in the modern era (post-1985). Butler has been there five times, Xavier eight. It’s not like those two have excelled only with high seeds. Since 1998, Xavier’s average seed is 7.3. Butler’s is 8.2. Creighton’s is 8.4.

We can argue about the fickle nature of the tournament. But college basketball’s casual fans don’t tune in until March, which puts a heavy priority on the postseason. An NCAA tournament run stirs local enthusiasm and national fanfare. It’s worth millions in branding and publicity.
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[bleedXblue]

Link (http://www.omaha.com/creighton/mens-basketball/chatelain-jays-have-matched-success-of-big-east-peers-butler/article_7cec383b-bed0-5caa-9473-1b70226c4a86.html)

Creighton is still seeking its first Sweet 16 in the modern era (post-1985). Butler has been there five times, Xavier eight. It’s not like those two have excelled only with high seeds. Since 1998, Xavier’s average seed is 7.3. Butler’s is 8.2. Creighton’s is 8.4.

We can argue about the fickle nature of the tournament. But college basketball’s casual fans don’t tune in until March, which puts a heavy priority on the postseason. An NCAA tournament run stirs local enthusiasm and national fanfare. It’s worth millions in branding and publicity.
______________


He makes a statement that their program is equal to and/or better than Butler and Xavier..........hugh?

[ammtd34]

He makes a statement that their program is equal to and/or better than Butler and Xavier..........hugh?

He supports it well enough. That's definitely not the point of the article.

[XU 87]

Creighton played a terrible and undisciplined game against RI. The 30 point loss to Baylor a few years ago was ridiculous. McDermott needs to look in the mirror and figure out why his teams have folded in some games in the tourney.

[bleedXblue]

He supports it well enough. That's definitely not the point of the article.

How does he support it well?

Our win percentage over the last 20 years is higher, we've had huge success in the tourney....they haven't.

Where is the evidence you see him supporting their program being better?

[Muskeagle]

Seems like a fair article. Just goes to show how solid a program X is and how difficult it is to be where we have gotten to.

[XU 87]

How does he support it well?

Our win percentage over the last 20 years is higher, we've had huge success in the tourney....they haven't.

Where is the evidence you see him supporting their program being better?

The author meant in terms of coaching stability and fan support. He didn't mean in terms of wins and losses.

[xufan2434]

I'm not gonna lie, I had no idea they've been stuck in the 2nd round like this. I would have guessed they made it there at some point in Altman's tenure. Good Lord that has to be frustrating to their fan base. That makes the Mo Watson stuff all that much more painful. Actually a shame McDermott never made it to the 2nd weekend to be honest. Gotta love that X is the one team in my life that knows how to actually get it done in the postseason ha

[GoMuskies]

The author meant in terms of coaching stability and fan support. He didn't mean in terms of wins and losses.

Yeah, I think he meant the program was as good or better....in everything other than wins and losses. And he was at a loss to explain why. I think that's fair.

What wasn't fair was equating winning in the Valley and the Horizon to winning in the A-10. Entirely different animals.

[XU 87]

Yeah, I think he meant the program was as good or better....in everything other than wins and losses. And he was at a loss to explain why. I think that's fair.

What wasn't fair was equating winning in the Valley and the Horizon to winning in the A-10. Entirely different animals.

I agree. I also think it's tougher to get kids to come to Omaha than to get kids to come to Cincinnati, for a variety of reasons.

[muskiefan82]

I agree. I also think it's tougher to get kids to come to Omaha than to get kids to come to Cincinnati, for a variety of reasons.

Even with all the free shoutouts Peyton Manning was giving the place for years?

[BandAid]

I agree. I also think it's tougher to get kids to come to Omaha than to get kids to come to Cincinnati, for a variety of reasons.

But we have the College World Series! And the Olympic Swim Trials! And...and...the Henry Doorly Zoo!

(Honestly, the Henry Doorly Zoo is the tits. The indoor exhibits are tremendous. The Cincinnati Zoo is great too.)

[xubrew]

Yeah, I think he meant the program was as good or better....in everything other than wins and losses. And he was at a loss to explain why. I think that's fair.

What wasn't fair was equating winning in the Valley and the Horizon to winning in the A-10. Entirely different animals.

Hell, he could have just stuck to the Valley. Wichita State has made a Final Four and an two additional Sweet Sixteens (at least). UNI has made at least one Sweet Sixteen. Missouri State has been to a Sweet Sixteen. Southern Illinois has been to multiple Sweet Sixteens. Hell, BRADLEY has made a Sweet Sixteen. Half the league has done it in what he defines as the modern era. Creighton has not.

As a head coach, McDermott's record in February/March isn't exactly stellar. You learn in math class that if you multiply two negatives that you get a positive answer. Maybe that's what they were hoping for??

[GoMuskies]

Omaha is a nice city. But I can see why kids from Chicago or NYC or Atlanta, etc. might not be immediately attracted to "middle of nowhere Nebraska".

[JTG]

Omaha is a nice city. But I can see why kids from Chicago or NYC or Atlanta, etc. might not be immediately attracted to "middle of nowhere Nebraska".
If you live and die with the 3, someone in the first weekend is probably gonna stop you, unless you're Michigan.

[XU 87]

Omaha is a nice city. But I can see why kids from Chicago or NYC or Atlanta, etc. might not be immediately attracted to "middle of nowhere Nebraska".

Agreed. I'm sure Omaha is a very nice city, but it's less than half the size of Cincinnati, and it isn't real close to many large cities to recruit from. Xavier and Butler have that advantage over Creighton, and I think it's a significant advantage.

[AviatorX]

Creighton's NCAA tournament games not against LA-Lafeyette in the NBE era have both resembled XU's effort against Marquette in 2011. That has to be frustrating.

[Harryfe]

Agreed. I'm sure Omaha is a very nice city, but it's less than half the size of Cincinnati, and it isn't real close to many large cities to recruit from. Xavier and Butler have that advantage over Creighton, and I think it's a significant advantage.
Sorry but think Indy has an advantage over both cities as a city to live in. When I left Indy to go to X it was Naptown but now it has passed Cincinnati as a metropolitan city.

[Section 200]

Sorry but think Indy has an advantage over both cities as a city to live in. When I left Indy to go to X it was Naptown but now it has passed Cincinnati as a metropolitan city.

That's hilarious! There is nothing to do in Indy, at all, unless your comparison is Ft Wayne. Indiana may be the most boring state in America.

[MuskiePimp23]

Sorry but think Indy has an advantage over both cities as a city to live in. When I left Indy to go to X it was Naptown but now it has passed Cincinnati as a metropolitan city.

Kind of like vd has passed Xavier as a program?

[Wheelhouse]

That's hilarious! There is nothing to do in Indy, at all, unless your comparison is Ft Wayne. Indiana may be the most boring state in America.


Kind of like vd has passed Xavier as a program?

Aren't most people going to favor the city in which they grew up? Plus, these types of arguments are all subjective. I grew up in NJ right outside of NYC (and live there again now). I have also lived in NYC, Indy and Cincinnati for extended periods of time. I actually liked Indy the best. I think it's one of the most underrated cities in America and everyone I know that visits is always amazed at how nice it is. But again, subjective.

[bobbiemcgee]

I grew up in Indy. Was bored out of my skull except for Race Week.

[bobbiemcgee]

Omaha is a nice city. But I can see why kids from Chicago or NYC or Atlanta, etc. might not be immediately attracted to "middle of nowhere Nebraska".

Wow. That would be like getting sent to Wichita.

[X Factor]

I grew up in Indy. Was bored out of my skull except for Race Week.

I'm pretty sure it's changed in the last 60 years...

[bobbiemcgee]

I'm pretty sure it's changed in the last 60 years...

I go back twice a yr. (bunch of relatives there) Sorry, it hasn't. At least not for me.

[X Factor]

I go back twice a yr. (bunch of relatives there) Sorry, it hasn't. At least not for me.

Haha, I haven't been to Indy in about 6 or 7 years since we moved from Ohio. Kids used to like the Children's Museum and zoo.

[sirthought]

Cincinnati has tons more happening than Indy. It's definitely in the running, but especially in the warmer months Cincy is clicking in every manner.

I will say that Indy probably has more sports events to watch. Not only NFL and NBA, but tons of youth sports have regional and national events there. They've marketed their facilities really well for that and it's helping their tourism and economy.

But for the average resident Cincy rocks!

[GoMuskies]

Wow. That would be like getting sent to Wichita.

Yup. Fine place as well, but certainly not an exciting destination for recruits at first.

[IM4X]

Link (http://www.omaha.com/creighton/mens-basketball/chatelain-jays-have-matched-success-of-big-east-peers-butler/article_7cec383b-bed0-5caa-9473-1b70226c4a86.html)

Creighton is still seeking its first Sweet 16 in the modern era (post-1985). Butler has been there five times, Xavier eight. It’s not like those two have excelled only with high seeds. Since 1998, Xavier’s average seed is 7.3. Butler’s is 8.2. Creighton’s is 8.4.

We can argue about the fickle nature of the tournament. But college basketball’s casual fans don’t tune in until March, which puts a heavy priority on the postseason. An NCAA tournament run stirs local enthusiasm and national fanfare. It’s worth millions in branding and publicity.
______________


thx for sharing

[stammina0721]

Why do we care what Creighton has to say?

[XUMIOH12]

in my opinion, Cincinnati and Indianapolis are pretty similar cities.

[GIMMFD]

in my opinion, Cincinnati and Indianapolis are pretty similar cities.

Yeah I have to agree with this. Both have the homey vibe, have plenty to do at times, a lot of artsy things, I don't know I enjoyed both at my time at Xavier (ex girlfriend was from Indy. Visited often), but being from West Virginia, there's just something about Cinci. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's almost like a band of brothers type of thing. Even being at Xavier one of the first questions were what high school did you go to, and even though that's more of a "this is my section" it still breeds a lot of pride into the city, and just kind of repping the 513. I don't know, I like flying with my Xavier gear on because when a fellow X grad comes up, we talk about things, and it's usually where in the city are you from..

[Title_BU]

Here are the following things that are not in Omaha:

1. NBA
2. NFL
3. NBA
4. Reasonably accomplished alternative programs anywhere near them
5. More or less any entertainment options.

Creighton does NOT get support because of being Creighton. They get support because Omaha is twice as large as Cincinnati and they have no other avenues for sports entertainment.

CU is not remotely close to being at the same level as either Butler or Xavier, which is why they weren't originally a part of the C7 expansion plans. I fail to understand how anyone could even make the argument seriously. They are as close to Bradley as they are Xavier/Butler.

BTW, Indianapolis is twice as big as Omaha, its literally as comparable as Cincinnati and Omaha -- just the other direction (other conversation). Its 4x the size of Cincinatti

[xudash]

Here are the following things that are not in Omaha:

1. NBA
2. NFL
3. NBA
4. Reasonably accomplished alternative programs anywhere near them
5. More or less any entertainment options.

Creighton does NOT get support because of being Creighton. They get support because Omaha is twice as large as Cincinnati and they have no other avenues for sports entertainment.

CU is not remotely close to being at the same level as either Butler or Xavier, which is why they weren't originally a part of the C7 expansion plans. I fail to understand how anyone could even make the argument seriously. They are as close to Bradley as they are Xavier/Butler.

BTW, Indianapolis is twice as big as Omaha, its literally as comparable as Cincinnati and Omaha -- just the other direction (other conversation). Its 4x the size of Cincinatti

You need to look at MSA data. For 2015:

Cincinnati - 28th; 2.2 million rounded.

Indy - 34th; 2 million rounded.

Omaha - 59th; 900 thousand rounded.

No one in their right mind is going to analyze stuff like this using pure city boundary designations.

I've always seen Cincinnati as a cosmopolitan city that clearly has its local pride in things. Among other things, it had pro-sports and better cultural offerings long before Indy did. I see Indy as nicely up and coming, if not "here" already. Kudos to Indy. I don't know Indy well, though; that is perception. As far as Omaha is concerned, don't know it at all, but sense that it is a nice, albeit smallish town.

Otherwise, while I'm happy to have Creighton as a conference mate, I believe you see it most of us see it, and the selection process was Xavier and Butler, and then Creighton (with a BoT assist from Marquette).

[BandAid]

Here are the following things that are not in Omaha:

1. NBA
2. NFL
3. NBA
4. Reasonably accomplished alternative programs anywhere near them
5. More or less any entertainment options.



You're either a huge fan of the NBA or there was a mistake there...

[XU 87]

Sorry but think Indy has an advantage over both cities as a city to live in. When I left Indy to go to X it was Naptown but now it has passed Cincinnati as a metropolitan city.

Not sure why you turned this into a debate of "What's better, Indy or Cincinnati".

The point is that it's easier to recruit when your school is in Indy or Cincinnati than if your school is in Omaha.

[Masterofreality]

Want to know why Creighton sucks in the Tournament? They're milquetoasts.

I used the term Soft Serve Ice Cream all through the Rhodee game. Soft Serve that melted under the hot lights of the Dance. Rhode Island got very contested rebound, every 50/50 ball and legally physically defended. Creighton was as mushy as you could get...and it's the same every year.

McDermott seems to be a nice guy...and he has a nice team that shoots nicely. Maybe that is just the way it is in the "City that Doesn't Coast". But that won't get it done in the NCAA Tourney where, more times than not, it's a Street Fight.

Grow some tough-husk skin you rubes.

[xu82]

I found myself explaining to people that Creighton really can shoot the lights out, I've recently witnessed it! You just need confidence in March, and we've seen miracles in Cincinnati and Indy in the recent past. Omaha has been a miracle free zone. And yes, what a difficult recruiting job that must be! But if you play well all year, why wilt in March? I love our coach!

[Blue Blooded-05]

Omaha must not be too bad, considering Marcus Foster is staying there for his senior season after averaging 18 ppg. I can only hope our junior who averaged 18 ppg returns to Cincinnati next year.

[muethibp]

Advancing in the tournament is a huge part luck/randomness - where a team is seeded, who they play, how they shoot that day, who loses in their bracket, etc. Making sweeping generalizations about the state of a program based on the tournament is foolish.

[GoMuskies]

7 years ago I would have enjoyed labeling this thread "Which shitty midwestern city sucks the least?" Now? Not so much. :)