Statement from Coach Mack

[Muskie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5xx5thWMAA2HeE.jpg:large

[muskiefan82]

I will be there. I will be loud.

[xukeith]

rallying the troops.
Desperate to stop non stop losing.
So Bob Staak?

[XU 87]

I'm bringing my A game.

[GetUp5]

CasualFan is triggered by this comment. Xavier, please provide a safe space for him.

[casualfan]

CasualFan is triggered by this comment. Xavier, please provide a safe space for him.

As long as it gets you off my nuts Im all for said safe space.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'll be there and I'll be loud!

[Xville]

Maybe have the team show up, then the crowd will follow.

[xu82]

I am forced to send some representatives, but they have their instructions!

[whopper]

I like it..it is easy to get spoiled and I can sense the frustration. Maybe a little unconditional love..it is a great ride to be a Div I player but also a lot of responsibility if they underachieve. It will be a few players last home game..and maybe there will be a bigger change next year that we are used to. Good luck X

[vee4xu]

It's a fair request. He makes some good points and I agree. I will be out of town, so won't be there, but those of you who are, yell, yell, yell. A win tomorrow and Saturday gives X 20 wins and 4th place going into the conference tourney. So, Coach Mack is correct saying that the team has a lot to play for.

GO X!!!

[muskienick]

My Dad and I were there for the Krajack, Campbell (3-23 one year), and Tay Baker eras and we yelled our butts off (along with the other 998 people usually present). We are now VERY spoiled. We also have extremely short memories and out-sized expectations (considering the loss of arguably our best player (Ed), our second highest scoring player from last year (Myles), and key injuries during the season (which many teams suffer) to Kaiser and Trevon. If someone would have told me we still had a decent chance to make the "Show" under such circumstances, I would have called them freaking crazy, especially now that we have a raw freshman running the point (and playing well over 30 minutes per game) and another freshman playing key minutes in the low post.

[fellahmuskie]

Chris' statement got my wife to change her mind and come to the game tomorrow night.

[bleedXblue]

As soon as the crowd got going Sunday we either shot ourselves in the foot or they made a big shot........

[vee4xu]

As soon as the crowd got going Sunday we either shot ourselves in the foot or they made a big shot........

I love ya dude, but you need a vacation from XU basketball this season.

[Masterofreality]

As soon as the crowd got going Sunday we either shot ourselves in the foot or they made a big shot........

This. Don't blame the crowd. The team should have plenty of motivation on their own.

Crowd noise is based on performance. Xavier has exceeded capacity of the building for the season so CMack needs to focus on what he needs to do and not beg.

Everyone knows what time it is.

[vee4xu]

This. Don't blame the crowd. The team should have plenty of motivation on their own.

Crowd noise is based on performance. Xavier has exceeded capacity of the building for the season so CMack needs to focus on what he needs to do and not beg.

Everyone knows what time it is.

I agree good friend, but I think Coach Mack is trying to rally the fans because we are a bit forlorn at the moment. Goodness knows I am. I think it's his way of trying to say, keep your chins up XU fans, the players and coaches are keeping theirs up, so please join us. Also, I think that whole Marquette day thang is eating at his craw, so he wants to stick it in Marquette's buns in any way he can for this game.

[xavierj]

Maybe have the team show up, then the crowd will follow.

Last night Kansas did not bring it. They were getting handled by 12. The crowd then went ape shit bonkers and they exploded. Problem with Xavier though is they don't have student sections that are worth a dung. Gonzaga another small school puts Xavier to shame. I agree the team needs to bring it but nothing wrong with the crowd getting a little nuts before top off. It does not have to be a funeral until the team gives you something to get excited about. It's a game, just have fun and get excited and support your team.

[muethibp]

He is just so frustrating to have as the coach of your team. I mean, look at all the veiled (or not) criticisms of the fans in that statement. Even if I thought they were based in fact (I really don't, I think the fans have been good/fine all year, including Sunday), it is SO inappropriate to have anything approaching a criticism in a statement like that. How about:


We have one home game left. It's on national television, we have a chance to send our seniors off with a victory, and the game is also essential to our chances of success the rest of the season. We need you there and we need you loud. You do your part and we'll do everything we can to do our part too! Thanks for all that you do and go X. Etc.

Same sentiment, no criticism. Dude just does not get it.

[xu82]

{B]He is just so frustrating to have as the coach of your team.[/B] I mean, look at all the veiled (or not) criticisms of the fans in that statement. Even if I thought they were based in fact (I really don't, I think the fans have been good/fine all year, including Sunday), it is SO inappropriate to have anything approaching a criticism in a statement like that. How about:



Same sentiment, no criticism. Dude just does not get it.

I have no problem with his plea. It's not like the fans haven't criticized the team. Personally, and collectively. Whatever tactics he has decided you use to get back on track I support. If you haven't noticed, he's a pretty good coach. No one was complaining with a 2 seed last year. No one (in their right mind) is complaining about next year's incoming class. The things soft old guys say about a bunch of young kids....and then take offense when the mirror is turned on them (for whatever reason, valid or motivational?). Damn, I don't get that thin skin. Toughen up, we expect more from the kids! At least fans are not criticized by name.

[WCWIII]

this year!

[JEHARDI]

it is easy to be loud when they are playing well, buck up and be loud and proud for an entire game.

[nasdadjr]

The house will be packed but the 8000 or so 65 plus aged folks there are not gonna be very loud unless they take that little blue pill beforehand lol

[AviatorX]

He is just so frustrating to have as the coach of your team. I mean, look at all the veiled (or not) criticisms of the fans in that statement. Even if I thought they were based in fact (I really don't, I think the fans have been good/fine all year, including Sunday), it is SO inappropriate to have anything approaching a criticism in a statement like that. How about:



Same sentiment, no criticism. Dude just does not get it.

You are thinking way too hard about this. A lot of programs would love to have a coach as engaged with the fanbase as Mack.

Mack is also awesome on Twitter, extremely engaging with local HS teams/coaches, and liked by much of the CBB media. Last fall didn't he let someone come take wedding pictures on the Cintas Court? Didn't he post on here before a big game once? He is a really good salesman for the program, and its infectious with his staff from the top down as evidenced by the awesome signing day social media work that garnered national attention, etc.

There is some give with that take if the program has a personality as head coach instead of the guy who wants to lock himself away and gameplan/recruit and gives off a weird vibe around campus (Crean, Tom).

[Backyard Champ]

Maybe have the team show up, then the crowd will follow.

The team showed up on Sunday? At least for 36 minutes. It wasn't until the very end when we lost the game.

I was at the game Sunday, and honestly I didn't think the crowd was as bad as people are saying. It got loud during runs, and in the end game, there wasn't much the crowd could do. The crowd being loud when X turns it over was not stopping Butler from laying it in on the other end. Turning it over 4 times in the final four minutes doesn't give the crowd a lot to be hyped about.

Having said that.. I think Mack is right. The atmosphere wasn't great. I think the game play had a lot to do with it though. In the first half, it felt like the officiating was so bad, that the officials kind of took the brunt of the crowd. In the second half, the crowd was so close to erupting, an extra stop here or there would have been huge.

The reality is, the game and the crowd have summed up the season so far. On Sunday, Xavier and the Cintas was so close to erupting, just one stop at the right time would have been huge. However, like in a lot of our games, that stop just didn't come. Xavier has been unable to produce a run when it needs it the most. I feel like every game, especially in the second half, the opposing team goes on runs where they get points every trip down the court.
A) it's hard for a team to gain any momentum when that happens
B) it's just as hard for fans to erupt when Xavier is getting scored on every defensive trip.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The things soft old guys say about a bunch of young kids....and then take offense when the mirror is turned on them (for whatever reason, valid or motivational?). Damn, I don't get that thin skin. Toughen up, we expect more from the kids! At least fans are not criticized by name.

This is perfect! Public reps since the man is holding me down.

[XMuskieFTW]

You are thinking way too hard about this. A lot of programs would love to have a coach as engaged with the fanbase as Mack.

Mack is also awesome on Twitter, extremely engaging with local HS teams/coaches, and liked by much of the CBB media. Last fall didn't he let someone come take wedding pictures on the Cintas Court? Didn't he post on here before a big game once? He is a really good salesman for the program, and its infectious with his staff from the top down as evidenced by the awesome signing day social media work that garnered national attention, etc.

There is some give with that take if the program has a personality as head coach instead of the guy who wants to lock himself away and gameplan/recruit and gives off a weird vibe around campus (Crean, Tom).

Mack actually showed up at a fan's wedding because the best man hit him up. Mack is a very good coach and very good for this program. All those wishing to move on from him(not as much on this site, but elsewhere) are going to be bitterly disappointed with the results that come with that. I think Chris is perfect for this program. I just hope we can keep him around.

[TUclutch]

Maybe have the team show up, then the crowd will follow.

The Butler game wasn't really that bad or out of reach until final few possessions, yet the crowd was garbage for most of the game in my opinion. Rivalry game with butler and the lower bowl was maybe half full right before tip. Very few people in my section or the section to either side of me stood up at any big moment during the game. I even had a couple season ticket holders tell me to sit down because they "couldn't see Xavier playing defense" at one point. Ive long felt like majority of the arena is reactive with noise/getting into the game rather than proactive.

Like someone else mentioned, Kansas was getting handled pretty easily for a while the other day, yet their fans were loud as ive heard an arena this year. It wasn't just their students either. Our student section absolutely needs to step up. Theyve been pretty pathetic all year, but the non students didnt help sunday. Having a tough home court advantage makes winning easier. That means fans need to be fully engaged even when things aren't going well. No point in stewing quietly at the game even if we're losing. go nuts and be loud and if it doesn't help, then stew after the game ends but come back next game ready to be loud again.

[bleedXblue]

The house will be packed but the 8000 or so 65 plus aged folks there are not gonna be very loud unless they take that little blue pill beforehand lol

The lower bowl is often the last to stand and really get loud and into the game. It's pretty much always been that way and I don't see it changing.

[RealDeal]

Good statement by Mack. Cintas crowds do need to be louder. Turning down the lights over the fans would help, it did at the gardens.

[Wheelhouse]

Very interesting. I don't have an issue with this type of statement from a coach. This team is short-handed and imploding and Mack is looking for any advantage he can get. If a jacked up crowd can cause the other team to turn the ball over even one time then it's worth it.

With all that said, I wasn't there on Sunday so I can't speak to the atmosphere, but the "on Sunday the atmosphere wasn't where it needed to be" comment is pretty aggressive for a coach whose team hasn't played good basketball in while. I can tell you what the atmosphere was like in my living room - me mother effing those guys up and down the court in the last 3 minutes when they turned it over on like 5 out of 6 possessions. And guess what? If I was in the building, I would have booed them out of the gym.

So I get both sides of the argument here. I think overall everyone needs to do their part tonight. Crowd needs to be pumped up, even when things aren't going well, and the team needs to make plays when the game is on the line, something they haven't done since probably the Seton Hall game at home.

[muethibp]

You are thinking way too hard about this. A lot of programs would love to have a coach as engaged with the fanbase as Mack.

Mack is also awesome on Twitter, extremely engaging with local HS teams/coaches, and liked by much of the CBB media. Last fall didn't he let someone come take wedding pictures on the Cintas Court? Didn't he post on here before a big game once? He is a really good salesman for the program, and its infectious with his staff from the top down as evidenced by the awesome signing day social media work that garnered national attention, etc.

There is some give with that take if the program has a personality as head coach instead of the guy who wants to lock himself away and gameplan/recruit and gives off a weird vibe around campus (Crean, Tom).

No, I'm really not thinking too hard about this. Here was my thought process: 2 minutes of reading the statement, 0 additional seconds to see that it was unduly and unnecessarily critical of the fans, 10 seconds to brainstorm alternate statement that asks for fan involvement without criticizing the fans, 45 seconds to write said alternate statement.

All the people saying, essentially, Chris is good for the program. I mean, maybe so, I don't really know that to be true one way or the other.

I think one could definitely make the argument at this point that the program has stalled if not regressed under Mack.

The 2009-10 team was a powerhouse but a lot of the credit goes to Miller for leaving the cupboard stocked.

The 2010-11 team - still almost all Miller's players - simply outclassed the A-10 that year but were awful in the A-10 tourney and extra awful against Marquette in the NCAA.

The 2011-12 team underperformed but did make the sweet 16 because of Lehigh knocking off Duke.

In Mack's fourth year, arguably the 4th year in a row they were worse than the year before, the team had probably the worst season in the last two decades.

They would have missed the tournament the next year too but for the expansion to 68, which did them little good because they slept-walked through the first 4 game and were blown away.

Two seasons ago they were 18-12 with one game left in the regular season, and probably out of the tournament again if it started then, until they won a 1-point game, an OT game, and a 2-point game to get in the tournament.

They were great last year, I grant.

You can't put, say the last 6 years up on a collective basis and say that they were better collectively than the 6 that came before. You just can't. And I don't see why it's unfair to question the leadership of the program then under those circumstances.

[Xavier]

Well, he did lead Xavier to the best regular season in history and highest seed. He won multiple coach of the year awards last season.

I also think when moving to the Big East a lot of people took for granted how easy it was to rack up good season in the A-10. The Big East is a whole different animal. Plus- your dismissal of good results hurts your credibility. "Well, we went to two sweet 16's. Sure. But one year we won close games (which, is a plus for a coach) and one year there was an upset in the tournament. Last year was fine"

Give me a break.

[GetUp5]

No, I'm really not thinking too hard about this. Here was my thought process: 2 minutes of reading the statement, 0 additional seconds to see that it was unduly and unnecessarily critical of the fans, 10 seconds to brainstorm alternate statement that asks for fan involvement without criticizing the fans, 45 seconds to write said alternate statement.

All the people saying, essentially, Chris is good for the program. I mean, maybe so, I don't really know that to be true one way or the other.

I think one could definitely make the argument at this point that the program has stalled if not regressed under Mack.

The 2009-10 team was a powerhouse but a lot of the credit goes to Miller for leaving the cupboard stocked.

The 2010-11 team - still almost all Miller's players - simply outclassed the A-10 that year but were awful in the A-10 tourney and extra awful against Marquette in the NCAA.

The 2011-12 team underperformed but did make the sweet 16 because of Lehigh knocking off Duke.

In Mack's fourth year, arguably the 4th year in a row they were worse than the year before, the team had probably the worst season in the last two decades.

They would have missed the tournament the next year too but for the expansion to 68, which did them little good because they slept-walked through the first 4 game and were blown away.

Two seasons ago they were 18-12 with one game left in the regular season, and probably out of the tournament again if it started then, until they won a 1-point game, an OT game, and a 2-point game to get in the tournament.

They were great last year, I grant.

You can't put, say the last 6 years up on a collective basis and say that they were better collectively than the 6 that came before. You just can't. And I don't see why it's unfair to question the leadership of the program then under those circumstances.

http://goxavier.com/news/2016/3/29/mens-basketball-chris-mack-selected-for-a-third-major-national-coach-of-the-year-award.aspx

G. T. F. O. H.

Your season by season reviews are cute, I guess. Let's be a little more realistic.

Year 1, 09-10, A-10 - 26-9 (14-2), Sweet 16. Sean Miller's players, blah blah. If Travis Steele were to become Head Coach would all the current guys be Chris Mack's players? Class for 10-11 = Jordan Latham, Justin Martin, Jay Canty.

Year 2, 10-11, A-10 - 24-8 (15-1), L to Marquette in 1st round. Class for 11-12 = Dee Davis, Travis Taylor, Dez Wells, Isaiah Philmore.

Year 3, 11-12, A-10 - 23-13 (10-6), Year of the brawl, Sweet 16. Class for 12-13 = Semaj Christon, Jalen Reynolds, James Farr, Myles Davis, Matt Stainbrook.

Year 4, 12-13, A-10 - 17-14 (9-7), Dez kicked out of school, lost Tu and Lyons. No tourney. Class for 13-14 = Remy Abell, Kamall Richards.

Year 5, 13-14, Big East - 21-13 (10-8), First Four Loss. Class for 14-15 = Class for 14-15 = Trevon Bluiett, Ed Sumner, JP Macura, Larry Austin, Makinde London, Sean O'Mara.

Year 6, 14-15, Big East - 23-14 (9-9), BET Final L to Nova, 6 seed NCAA tourney, L to AZ in Sweet Sixteen. Class for 15-16 = Kaiser Gates, (Gaston for 16-17)

Year 7, 15-16, Big East - 28-6 (14-4), 2 seed in NCAA tourney, L to Wisky in Round of 32. Class for 16-17 = Quentin Goodin, Tyrique Jones, Malcolm Bernard.

Year 8 - 16-17, Big East - 18-11 (8-9, Lost Reynolds, Farr, Abell to graduation. Lose Myles Davis. Lose Ed Sumner. Lose Bluiett for 3 game stretch. Class for 17-18 = Jared Ridder, Elias Harden, Naji Marshall, Paul Scruggs, Kentrevious Jones

The fact is the transition from the A-10 to the Big East is going to create more losses. We're not realistically going to pull the 14-2, 15-1 in the Big East. The important thing is Coach Mack continued the success from the Miller era by making the NCAA Tournament his first 3 years, including 2 Sweet 16's. In 12-13, they lost Dez Wells, Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons, Kenny Frease and Andre Walker. They still felt that loss in 13-14 but went 21-13 (10-8) and made the First Four. What did Mack do that season? Brought in his best class to date for 14-15. A year we made it BACK to the Sweet 16. Then follows it up with a 2 seed in 15-16.

So coming off a 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament AND losing Reynolds, Farr, Abell (and basically Myles).. Sumner goes down for the year and Bluiett is out for a 3 game stretch, 1 vs. Nova and 2 on the road. Look at the class coming in next year. It's insane.

The future is bright and Chris Mack is GREAT for the program. Like I said, GTFOH.

[muethibp]

Well, he did lead Xavier to the best regular season in history and highest seed. He won multiple coach of the year awards last season.

I also think when moving to the Big East a lot of people took for granted how easy it was to rack up good season in the A-10. The Big East is a whole different animal.

They were really, really, really good last year. You won't hear me suggest otherwise. I mean, they didn't hang a regular season or tournament banner, and they got knocked out by a way-inferior team in the tournament, so the enthusiasm can only go so far. But were they a great basketball team last year? Absolutely. And Chris deserves some credit for that. But the right way to look at this is to consider the state of the program more generally. And I don't think it's hard to argue that it was stronger, say, 06-11.

Big East is harder no doubt. But one could argue that the cracks were showing in the A-10 (Mack conference records in the A-10 by year: 14-2, 15-1, 10-6, 9-7).

[D-West & PO-Z]

And guess what? If I was in the building, I would have booed them out of the gym.



Really?

[XU88]

The lower bowl is often the last to stand and really get loud and into the game. It's pretty much always been that way and I don't see it changing.

Not to get into a lower bowl vs upper bowl "thing" here, but this narrative is tiring and simply not true. I've noticed many times this season that while most of the lower bowl is standing and loud, the upper bowl is still sitting. Not saying that the upper bowl doesn't get in the act, but to say that we are the last to stand is just flat false.

[Wheelhouse]

Is this thread really turning into an argument about whether Chris Mack is a good coach? I've had issues with Mack in the past but I think by now he's proven himself. He's a great recruiter and has done a very good job coaching this program. Last year we lost a brutal game in the tournament but that Xavier team was lights out good. This year we've been hurt by injuries/suspensions. All things considered, I think he's done a good job keeping the team together. Win the last two games and we're fine. Get into the Dance and let's see what happens.

[Wheelhouse]

Really?

Yes! Too much? That was awful basketball!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well, he did lead Xavier to the best regular season in history and highest seed. He won multiple coach of the year awards last season.

I also think when moving to the Big East a lot of people took for granted how easy it was to rack up good season in the A-10. The Big East is a whole different animal. Plus- your dismissal of good results hurts your credibility. "Well, we went to two sweet 16's. Sure. But one year we won close games (which, is a plus for a coach) and one year there was an upset in the tournament. Last year was fine"

Give me a break.

Seriously.

Our recruiting is only getting better and needs to to compete with Nova whos had a massive head start.

Other than Villanova has a school in the BE performed overall better than XU since we joined the BE? I dont think so. We have made the tourney every year, had some good performances in the BE tourney, and won 3 games in ncaa tourney. Butler has won 0 BE tourney games, 2 ncaa tourney games and missed the tourney once, Creighton has missed tourney twice and has 1 ncaa tourney win.

Mack is definitely not perfect but the guy did win National Coach of the year last year. I think we've got a pretty good one who will continue to adjust to being in the BE and will recruit accordingly to get XU to a higher level and competing for BE championships etc.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yes! Too much? That was awful basketball!

I agree the end sucked and they fell apart but I dont know what booing your own team full of college athletes accomplishes.

I dont get booing your own team in general but I can moreso get it in the pros especially when it appears theyve packed it in and arent giving effort but I'm generally against booing college athletes.

[vee4xu]

To quote the late Al Davis:

"Just win, baby."

If that happens, all will be fine.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure how one could make a case that Mack has done anything but very well at Xavier. Sure, the Lehigh and Georgia State upsets were fortunate, but Xavier had to win just to advance to those games and avoid the same upsets that Baylor and Duke could not. He's certainly elevated Xavier's recruiting, and he had done that even before Xavier left the A-10. He's definitely not any sort of once in a generation coach that it would destroy the program to lose (seems Xavier has shown that doesn't really exist here), but you'd have to work pretty hard not to be happy with where he has the program today.

[GetUp5]

They were really, really, really good last year. You won't hear me suggest otherwise. I mean, they didn't hang a regular season or tournament banner, and they got knocked out by a way-inferior team in the tournament, so the enthusiasm can only go so far. But were they a great basketball team last year? Absolutely. And Chris deserves some credit for that. But the right way to look at this is to consider the state of the program more generally. And I don't think it's hard to argue that it was stronger, say, 06-11.

Big East is harder no doubt. But one could argue that the cracks were showing in the A-10 (Mack conference records in the A-10 by year: 14-2, 15-1, 10-6, 9-7).

This is just patently false. The 10-6 A-10 season was the year of the brawl and we went to the Sweet 16. The 9-7 season? We lost Dez, Tu, Lyons and Frease. Not many coaches pulling in a winning record after losing those guys.

[XU 87]

Two seasons ago they were 18-12 with one game left in the regular season, and probably out of the tournament again if it started then, until they won a 1-point game, an OT game, and a 2-point game to get in the tournament.



X went to the Sweet 16 that year.

[XU 87]

I also think when moving to the Big East a lot of people took for granted how easy it was to rack up good season in the A-10. The Big East is a whole different animal.


I think people take for granted how difficult it is for a school not named Duke, UK, Kansas or UNC to win year after year after year. Even UNC and UK have had some down years in the last 15 years.

Even so-called marquee programs like IU and UCLA have also had struggles in the last 15 years. IU had to rebuild the entire program after Sampson was fired. And now it looks like Crean may get fired. I think UCLA has ended up firing every head coach since Larry Brown left in the early 80's.

[IM4X]

This. Don't blame the crowd. The team should have plenty of motivation on their own.

Crowd noise is based on performance. Xavier has exceeded capacity of the building for the season so CMack needs to focus on what he needs to do and not beg.

Everyone knows what time it is.

Amen.

Chris- it's good to see a coach ask for support. But please don't suggest that any problems this team is having is partly on the fans. There is no "possibly" or "maybe" when it comes to this team and the coaches being 100% responsible for this team's issues. There were many positives in the Butler game. Show the fans you can keep this team from falling apart at the end of games- it's not too late. Fans won't give up on a team if it looks like their team and their coach haven't given up on them.

You have lots of X fans who have come and shown support. I will be at the BE tournament bringing my "A game" As a fan the entire time. I look forward to the team and coaches bringing their A game the entire time too.

[GoMuskies]

I think people take for granted how difficult it is for a school not name Duke, UK, Kansas or UNC to win year after year after year. Even UNC and UK have had some down years in the last 15 years.

In one of the years I was at UNC, they lost to Hampton, Davidson and Ohio U. at home and needed a miracle to beat Binghampton.

Still beat Clemson, though. They would mock our little Jimmy Carter thing with Dayton.

[AviatorX]

I think people take for granted how difficult it is for a school not name Duke, UK, Kansas or UNC to win year after year after year. Even UNC and UK have had some down years in the last 15 years.

This is so true. I love Xavier and always will, but this is not Kansas. At least not yet.

[GoMuskies]

this is not Kansas

Speak for yourself. :)

[IM4X]

He is just so frustrating to have as the coach of your team. I mean, look at all the veiled (or not) criticisms of the fans in that statement. Even if I thought they were based in fact (I really don't, I think the fans have been good/fine all year, including Sunday), it is SO inappropriate to have anything approaching a criticism in a statement like that. How about:



Same sentiment, no criticism. Dude just does not get it.

I was hoping the message was something more like what you wrote too.

[Irishjohn68]

Xavier needs a big win. Go X!

[TUclutch]

Not to get into a lower bowl vs upper bowl "thing" here, but this narrative is tiring and simply not true. I've noticed many times this season that while most of the lower bowl is standing and loud, the upper bowl is still sitting. Not saying that the upper bowl doesn't get in the act, but to say that we are the last to stand is just flat false.

I agree with this. My family has seats in the lower and upper bowl. The lower bowl is usually way quicker to stand and get loud than the upper bowl was(as a whole). No one in the lower bowl has ever told me to sit down during a big moment on defense

[muskiefan82]

xavier needs any win. Go x!

ftfy

[XU 87]

Chris- it's good to see a coach ask for support. But please don't suggest that any problems this team is having is partly on the fans.

I don't read at all in his statement where he is blaming any problems on the fans or even suggesting that. Tonight's a big game. He wants a loud crowd.

[GetUp5]

This whole 'The coach shouldn't tell me how to cheer' take is so obnoxious. If you listened to the clip from Mack, the tone was nowhere near 'F the fans'. It was more of a 'Hey we haven't been very good, we need all the help we can get'.

Nothing to see here. Move on. If you're offended by it, you're a huge loser.

[scoscox]

The lower bowl is often the last to stand and really get loud and into the game. It's pretty much always been that way and I don't see it changing.

This is the opposite of the truth.

[muethibp]

I don't read at all in his statement where he is blaming any problems on the fans or even suggesting that. Tonight's a big game. He wants a loud crowd.

But, respectfully, that's reading half (the nice half) of his message only. The first three sentences were, essentially, "it was easy to root for us last year when we're winning but now it's harder and Sunday didn't feel like the atmosphere was what we needed it to be." If he's not alleging that the fans didn't do their part at a recent game then what exactly was he saying there? He took a shot at the fans. He did. There's no other way to read it.

[Emp]

Wow. Bandwagon "spectators" vs. supporters. Ripping a coach who is going to have the most wins in X ball history with faint praise. Dissecting a coach's earnest plea for support, for perceived slights.

A good player ...and a good supporter..... shakes off a bad possession and digs deep to support the next one. If you clam up after adverse results, you're a spectator, not a supporter.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

SOP for the Cooley Clan tonight.

Game on the tube.

Yelling at the screen.

[GetUp5]

But, respectfully, that's reading half (the nice half) of his message only. The first three sentences were, essentially, "it was easy to root for us last year when we're winning but now it's harder and Sunday didn't feel like the atmosphere was what we needed it to be." If he's not alleging that the fans didn't do their part at a recent game then what exactly was he saying there? He took a shot at the fans. He did. There's no other way to read it.

Did you listen to it? Probably not. You're dissecting his words and creating your own tone for them. Give me a break.

Instead of making up my own interpretation of what he said, I'll use his actual quote. "It didn't feel like the atmosphere was what it needed to be Sunday." You're offended by that??? Seriously??

[XU 87]

The lower bowl is often the last to stand and really get loud and into the game. It's pretty much always been that way and I don't see it changing.

I sit in the lower bowl. I have some people that sit around me that yell and raise hell with the refs all game (and that would include me), and there are others around me who sit and watch the game and don't say much. I also see people who sit right behind the scorer's table who raise hell with the refs all game. There are others in the same location who sit and watch and don't say much. But I don't think you can characterize how 5000 people act during the game, whether in the upper or lower bowl.

[drudy23]

On the bright side (or dark side depending on how you look at it), tickets are as low as $2 on seat geek.

[casualfan]

On the bright side (or dark side depending on how you look at it), tickets are as low as $2 on seat geek.

I am very interested to see what the crowd looks like tonight.

I love 9 pm tips, but a lot of people do not.

Hell, you can get down low for $22:

https://seatgeek.com/marquette-golden-eagles-at-xavier-musketeers-basketball-tickets/ncaa-basketball/2017-03-01-9-pm/3520859

[XUMIOH12]

I sit in the lower bowl. I have some people that sit around me that yell and raise hell with the refs all game (and that would include me), and there are others around me who sit and watch the game and don't say much. I also see people who sit right behind the scorer's table who raise hell with the refs all game. There are others in the same location who sit and watch and don't say much. But I don't think you can characterize how 5000 people act during the game, whether in the upper or lower bowl.

yeah you just can't generalize the entire upper bowl vs lower bowl. It is impossible to say whether one gets more in to it. It is all the same crowd in the same stadium so who gives a shit!

[XUMIOH12]

This whole 'The coach shouldn't tell me how to cheer' take is so obnoxious. If you listened to the clip from Mack, the tone was nowhere near 'F the fans'. It was more of a 'Hey we haven't been very good, we need all the help we can get'.

Nothing to see here. Move on. If you're offended by it, you're a huge loser.

yep

[markchal]

Did you listen to it? Probably not. You're dissecting his words and creating your own tone for them. Give me a break.

Instead of making up my own interpretation of what he said, I'll use his actual quote. "It didn't feel like the atmosphere was what it needed to be Sunday." You're offended by that??? Seriously??

I'm not necessarily offended but I do think it's kinda lame of him.

[nasdadjr]

Not to get into a lower bowl vs upper bowl "thing" here, but this narrative is tiring and simply not true. I've noticed many times this season that while most of the lower bowl is standing and loud, the upper bowl is still sitting. Not saying that the upper bowl doesn't get in the act, but to say that we are the last to stand is just flat false.

Just saying I sat in the lower bowl twice this year... one time an older couple was next to us and the wife asked me to keep it down ( Creighton game yeah right) then her and her husband disappeared after halftime... then during the run in the seton hall game had a couple not paying attention in the second half cause they were phone shopping on Amazon

[XU 87]

Just saying I sat in the lower bowl twice this year... one time an older couple was next to us and the wife asked me to keep it down ( Creighton game yeah right) then her and her husband disappeared after halftime... then during the run in the seton hall game had a couple not paying attention in the second half cause they were phone shopping on Amazon

https://www.google.com/#q=anecdotal+evidence&*

[xukeith]

Maybe have the team show up, then the crowd will follow.

This helps a lot

[IM4X]

I don't read at all in his statement where he is blaming any problems on the fans or even suggesting that. Tonight's a big game. He wants a loud crowd.


Maybe you missed this sentence:


"It didn't feel like the atmosphere was what it needed to be on Sunday"


This sentence -particularly the words in bold- comes across a bit harsh, suggesting the poor atmosphere (i.e. the lack of participation by fans during the game) may have played a part in the loss on Sunday. It feels like he is pointing to the fans for not being loud enough and possibly part of the issue instead of just stating he and the team will keep getting a little better and that he is asking for the loudest and best crowd possible against Marguette.

Sure he "wants a loud crowd." To that point, he would get a better response if he kept to that line of thinking and left anything that could be construed as a criticism of the fans out of the message. "What it needed to be" suggests that because it wasn't where it needed to be, there was a different result.

[KFX]

I support Coach Mack. Let's go X.

[xu82]

i support coach mack. Let's go x.

Amen!

[xubrew]

Maybe you missed this sentence:


"It didn't feel like the atmosphere was what it needed to be on Sunday"


This sentence -particularly the words in bold- comes across a bit harsh, suggesting the poor atmosphere (i.e. the lack of participation by fans during the game) may have played a part in the loss on Sunday. It feels like he is pointing to the fans for not being loud enough and possibly part of the issue instead of just stating he and the team will keep getting a little better and that he is asking for the loudest and best crowd possible against Marguette.

Sure he "wants a loud crowd." To that point, he would get a better response if he kept to that line of thinking and left anything that could be construed as a criticism of the fans out of the message. "What it needed to be" suggests that because it wasn't where it needed to be, there was a different result.

I've been to many concerts where the front man said multiple times "It's too quiet in here! Let me here you!" or something to that effect. It would have been beyond stupid to take exception to that.

Honestly, if this bothers you then I think it says more about you than anything else. You're easily bothered by things. You're letting what amounts to a rallying cry in support of your own team annoy you, and then giving an analysis as to why. I can't help but laugh at that. He wants a loud atmosphere, he wants it louder than it was before, and he said so. Yunno what?? Good for him!

[xu82]

I've been to many concerts where the front man said multiple times "It's too quiet in here! Let me here you!" or something to that effect. It would have been beyond stupid to take exception to that.

Honestly, if this bothers you then I think it says more about you than anything else. You're easily bothered by things. You're letting what amounts to a rallying cry in support of your own team annoy you. He wants a loud atmosphere, he wants it louder than it was before, and he said so. Yunno what?? Good for him!

Public reps, the man is keeping me down.

[XU 87]

Maybe you missed this sentence:


"It didn't feel like the atmosphere was what it needed to be on Sunday"


This sentence -particularly the words in bold- comes across a bit harsh, suggesting the poor atmosphere (i.e. the lack of participation by fans during the game) may have played a part in the loss on Sunday. It feels like he is pointing to the fans for not being loud enough and possibly part of the issue instead of just stating he and the team will keep getting a little better and that he is asking for the loudest and best crowd possible against Marguette.

Sure he "wants a loud crowd." To that point, he would get a better response if he kept to that line of thinking and left anything that could be construed as a criticism of the fans out of the message. "What it needed to be" suggests that because it wasn't where it needed to be, there was a different result.

Jeez, how much time and effort are you going to spend dissecting the hidden meanings of one sentence? Mack wants a loud crowd tonight. That's it. That's what he said. That's what he meant. I'm now heading to the game to help in his request.

And yes, he also said that he wished the crowd would have been louder on Sunday. So what?

(I see Brew said it better than I did.)

[Backyard Champ]

Felt like the crowd did all it could tnought. Multiple times standing after X cut the lead to 11,10 or 9. Tough to call the crowd out, then give that performance.

[muethibp]

Chris Mack post game comments. A few days after criticizing the fans, now begins process of tossing own players under the bus. As if he is just a bystander/observer to the process - as if he had no role in recruiting and developing the players or being responsible for ensuring their mental and physical preparation to play.


"Really disappointing. I can't term it any other way that that," Mack said. "We'll see if this team has much resolve as we move forward... We haven't had much of a resiliency all year. When teams punch us in the mouth we keep getting punched. It hasn't been of the character of teams that I've coached in the past. This one's been dealt some weird adversity throughout the year and we haven't handled it very well.

"This group, for whatever reason, hasn't responded, and I don't know if it will change to be quite honest."

[Masterofreality]

Chris Mack post game comments. A few days after criticizing the fans, now begins process of tossing own players under the bus. As if he is just a bystander/observer to the process - as if he had no role in recruiting and developing the players or being responsible for ensuring their mental and physical preparation to play.

Well, maybe if he would have called them out after losing the Creighton game at home because they couldn't shoot free throws instead of praising their "effort" or went gonzo on them after they got destroyed on the boards vs SucKS, he may have gotten their attention better. Obviously they have little regard for what he has to say now after that miserable effort.....at home...in a must win...on Senior night.

Not a good job this year with this group...and having Ed wouldn't have stopped 174 points being posted by the opposition in the last 2 games. Disgusting.

[markchal]

Not a good job this year with this group...and having Ed wouldn't have stopped 174 points being posted by the opposition in the last 2 games. Disgusting.

I think this is a really important point. Too many in the excuse brigade on this board want to pin everything on losing Myles and Ed. Myles was suspended indefinitely before the season even started, so you can only ride that for so long. Losing Ed sucked, and I think expectations were dialed back, but not NIT-level dialed back. Not getting run off the court by Marquette on senior night dialed back. It seems like every game there's a new excuse ("how many games are JP and Tre gonna combine for xxx percentage?" "it was just a rare night, if we're even close to our normal % from Ft..." "they shot 60%, how many times is a team gonna be that dialed in?").

Most of the players we have left may not be super experienced, but they have shown almost no consistency. The season is shaping up to be a big disappointment even independent of the injuries.

[xavierj]

I think this is a really important point. Too many in the excuse brigade on this board want to pin everything on losing Myles and Ed. Myles was suspended indefinitely before the season even started, so you can only ride that for so long. Losing Ed sucked, and I think expectations were dialed back, but not NIT-level dialed back. Not getting run off the court by Marquette on senior night dialed back. It seems like every game there's a new excuse ("how many games are JP and Tre gonna combine for xxx percentage?" "it was just a rare night, if we're even close to our normal % from Ft..." "they shot 60%, how many times is a team gonna be that dialed in?").

Most of the players we have left may not be super experienced, but they have shown almost no consistency. The season is shaping up to be a big disappointment even independent of the injuries.

What do you expect when 50% of your lineup is two freshman and two transfers from Norfol state and Florida A&M? The other 4 are limited spot up shooters and a big unathletic slow big man. They just don't have the horses. I am pretty sure if Ed was healthy they would be at least 21-8, which is much better than where we are without him.

[sgarcia]

Any reason we haven't tried to slow these games down other than the first half of the Providence and Seton Hall road games? I'm not talking about playing at Virginia's pace but if our defense stinks and we have guys playing lots of minutes then I think you've got to try it. I can't keep watching them give up 50+ points in the second half. It's downright embarrasing. Hopefully the team can grind out a win Saturday and head in to the conference tourney with some momentum.

[markchal]

What do you expect when 50% of your lineup is two freshman and two transfers from Norfol state and Florida A&M? The other 4 are limited spot up shooters and a big unathletic slow big man. They just don't have the horses. I am pretty sure if Ed was healthy they would be at least 21-8, which is much better than where we are without him.

Hate this argument. I expect our coaches to get better players or coach them better?? Mack is responsible for the roster we have and there are plenty of freshmen that contribute in big ways. Howard is a freshman and he scored 30+ on us the first time. Baldwin is a freshman and he destroyed us in the game before. Mack is in charge of the horses, so if we don't have them, it's on him.

Second, I do think this team has the horses to not get blown out by Marquette on their home floor. We just have shown no resiliency and no chemistry. Gaston never has been consistent, Gates will look decent one game and get some key rebounds and points and the next he'll turn it over five times in a half and look as soft as we've seen anyone in an X jersey. Bernard has looked solid the last few games, but where was that during the road stretch? What happened to "our best offensive big man" from last year in O'Mara? We still have some pieces and guys that have shown flashes at times that would lead me to believe we could be competitive with Marquette. They are a bubble team, not Duke.

[XU 87]

Hate this argument. I expect our coaches to get better players or coach them better?? Mack is responsible for the roster we have and there are plenty of freshmen that contribute in big ways. Howard is a freshman and he scored 30+ on us the first time. Baldwin is a freshman and he destroyed us in the game before. Mack is in charge of the horses, so if we don't have them, it's on him.

Second, I do think this team has the horses to not get blown out by Marquette on their home floor. We just have shown no resiliency and no chemistry. Gaston never has been consistent, Gates will look decent one game and get some key rebounds and points and the next he'll turn it over five times in a half and look as soft as we've seen anyone in an X jersey. Bernard has looked solid the last few games, but where was that during the road stretch? What happened to "our best offensive big man" from last year in O'Mara? We still have some pieces and guys that have shown flashes at times that would lead me to believe we could be competitive with Marquette. They are a bubble team, not Duke.

I read posts like this and I think, "Do we forget that our 2 of our top 3 players aren't on the floor?" "Do we forget that our starting point guard started the year third on the point guard depth chart, behind Myles and Ed"?

Is this a sound argument that " layer so and so on another team is a freshman and he had a good game, so our freshman should be doing the same every game"?

X has 8 scholarship players left on this team. Three of them play the same position-center. That means we have 5 players to play the other 4 positions. Of those 5 players, one is a freshman who started the season as our third string point guard, and another was playing at Florida A&M last year and we were once wondering if he would even get playing time this year.

You can't expect role players to become stars and you can't expect swing forwards to be good point guards.

I am very disappointed in the game yesterday. But let's keep some perspective.

[GoMuskies]

X has 8 scholarship players left on this team.


This is definitely part of the issue. We only lost two guys. Mack gambled on going with a thin roster this year, and he got burned. I'm not particularly upset about it (it happens), but Mack definitely does not escape blame for the state of the roster and its impact on this year's team.

[muethibp]

I read posts like this and I think, "Do we forget that our 2 of our top 3 players aren't on the floor?" "Do we forget that our starting point guard started the year third on the point guard depth chart, behind Myles and Ed"?

Is this a sound argument that " layer so and so on another team is a freshman and he had a good game, so our freshman should be doing the same every game"?

X has 8 scholarship players left on this team. Three of them play the same position-center. That means we have 5 players to play the other 4 positions. Of those 5 players, one is a freshman who started the season as our third string point guard, and another was playing at Florida A&M last year and we were once wondering if he would even get playing time this year.

You can't expect role players to become stars and you can't expect swing forwards to be good point guards.

I am very disappointed in the game yesterday. But let's keep some perspective.

I read posts like this and I think, "Isn't there someone in charge of recruiting? Isn't there a person generally in charge of the basketball program whose job it is to see that the cupboard doesn't go from stocked to bare overnight? Isn't there a person who is supposed to be a leader of boys/men that ensures that talented, generally likable young men like Myles Davis don't end up lost in the shuffle?"

[Xavier]

Wait, you think the off the court issues from Myles is Coach Macks fault? What?

[casualfan]

This is definitely part of the issue. We only lost two guys. Mack gambled on going with a thin roster this year, and he got burned. I'm not particularly upset about it (it happens), but Mack definitely does not escape blame for the state of the roster and its impact on this year's team.

Agreed.

And at some point people have to stop bringing up Myles. For all intents and purposes he was never part of this team.

[GoMuskies]

Wait, you think the off the court issues from Myles is Coach Macks fault? What?

If there's a pattern of behavior, I think it can become Coach Mack's fault/responsibility. I don't really see that, though. We've had our share of issues, but I don't think it's been outside the norm.

[casualfan]

Wait, you think the off the court issues from Myles is Coach Macks fault? What?

No, but coming into the season with a thin roster to begin with is his fault.

[Xavier]

No, but coming into the season with a thin roster to begin with is his fault.

No question, I agree with you on that. I was referring to MUETHIBP saying Mack is a leader of young men and shouldnt allow things like what Myles did to happen. At some point, these kids have to grow up. You cant have coach holding your hand throughout college. Sheesh

[XMuskieFTW]

Agreed.

And at some point people have to stop bringing up Myles. For all intents and purposes he was never part of this team.

Why? He was expected to be until that came into question in July. He wasn't even suspended until after school started. You aren't going to get any type of recruit in that late into things. We lucked out on getting Bernard. We only got him because he decommitted late from Richmond.

[casualfan]

No question, I agree with you on that. I was referring to MUETHIBP saying Mack is a leader of young men and shouldnt allow things like what Myles did to happen. At some point, these kids have to grow up. You cant have coach holding your hand throughout college. Sheesh

Yeah, I agree that what happened with Myles isn't his fault, at least not based on what we know.

Now, if Myles has had a pattern of bad behavior we're not aware of that the staff failed to punish him for prior to that incident that's a different story, but I don't think anyone knows if thats the case or not.

The fact that we didn't have a capable backup at either of the two guard positions though falls squarely on Chris though.

[casualfan]

Why? He was expected to be until that came into question in July. He wasn't even suspended until after school started. You aren't going to get any type of recruit in that late into things. We lucked out on getting Bernard. We only got him because he decommitted late from Richmond.

Because shit happens in college basketball and you have to be prepared to deal with it.

Not only did the team only have 10 scholarship players to start the year, but quite frankly 2 or 3 of those guys, despite being on scholarship, are not ready to contribute.

You need 8 or 9 guys that can contribute at this level coming into a year. We did not have that this year. By my count we had 5.

That is on coach. The middle to back end of the roster is lacking. That has nothing to do with anything that happened with Myles or Ed.

[markchal]

you need 8 or 9 guys that can contribute at this level coming into a year. We did not have that this year. By my count we had 5.

That is on coach. The middle to back end of the roster is lacking. That has nothing to do with anything that happened with myles or ed.

exactly!

[paulxu]

Allen is out for a game, and they lose to unranked Virgina Tech by 14.
Guess Duke has no bench.

You guys...

[GoMuskies]

Allen is out for a game, and they lose to unranked Virgina Tech by 14.
Guess Duke has no bench.

You guys...

Allen was also limited to 16 minutes off the bench against #16 FSU, and Duke beat the Creminoles.

[casualfan]

Allen is out for a game, and they lose to unranked Virgina Tech by 14.
Guess Duke has no bench.

You guys...

I'm not sure bringing up Duke is going to make the point you think it is.

I mean they are 23-7 after losing 5 of their rotation players as well as their coach for a significant period of time.

In fact it's making the opposite of the point you think it is.

[XU 87]

Because shit happens in college basketball and you have to be prepared to deal with it.



It depends what happens. Teams just can't just lose 2 of their top 3 players, who are guards, and not expect the team to have difficulties. I read your post as saying, "If X had 12 guys on the bench, everything would have been fine." That's just not remotely accurate.

X lost an NBA player and fifth year senior who had been a major contributor. You don't just fill those shoes with some player expected to play 5 minutes per game.

[GetUp5]

Coming into the season... The staff was looking at this...

PG - Ed Sumner
SG - Myles Davis
SF - JP Macura
PF - Trevon Bluiett
C - Rashid Gaston

Malcolm Bernard
Kaiser Gates
Quentin Goodin
Tyrique Jones
Sean O'Mara
Eddie Ekiyor

That is 11 guys and only 2 freshmen. How exactly were the coaches supposed to prepare for losing Myles in July and Ekiyor in August?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Agreed.

And at some point people have to stop bringing up Myles. For all intents and purposes he was never part of this team.

When people are talking about the failures of Mack in regards to roster construction (or talent) bringing up Myles is a no brainer.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The fact that we didn't have a capable backup at either of the two guard positions though falls squarely on Chris though.

We had 2 of them. They were supposed to be Q and Bernard.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Coming into the season... The staff was looking at this...

PG - Ed Sumner
SG - Myles Davis
SF - JP Macura
PF - Trevon Bluiett
C - Rashid Gaston

Malcolm Bernard
Kaiser Gates
Quentin Goodin
Tyrique Jones
Sean O'Mara
Eddie Ekiyor

That is 11 guys and only 2 freshmen. How exactly were the coaches supposed to prepare for losing Myles in July and Ekiyor in August?

Yeah not sure how that isnt fully prepared coming into the season. Man if only....

[casualfan]

We had 2 of them. They were supposed to be Q and Bernard.

Then you and I have a different definition of capable.

[casualfan]

Coming into the season... The staff was looking at this...

PG - Ed Sumner
SG - Myles Davis
SF - JP Macura
PF - Trevon Bluiett
C - Rashid Gaston

Malcolm Bernard
Kaiser Gates
Quentin Goodin
Tyrique Jones
Sean O'Mara
Eddie Ekiyor

That is 11 guys and only 2 freshmen. How exactly were the coaches supposed to prepare for losing Myles in July and Ekiyor in August?

Having 11 guys isn't good enough if 4 or 5 of them are totally incapable of contributing in any meaningful way.

And Chris and staff knew what they were getting into when they recruited Eddie. Everyone knew right from the jump that one had a chance to blow up at any moment.

[casualfan]

It depends what happens. Teams just can't just lose 2 of their top 3 players, who are guards, and not expect the team to have difficulties. I read your post as saying, "If X had 12 guys on the bench, everything would have been fine." That's just not remotely accurate.

X lost an NBA player and fifth year senior who had been a major contributor. You don't just fill those shoes with some player expected to play 5 minutes per game.

No one is saying they shouldn't have missed a beat without Ed.

What we're saying is they shouldn't be missing as many beats as they are.

And again the team was 13-2 without Myles. Using his absence as a crutch for the recent struggles while ignoring the fact that they had played extremely well the entire first 3/4 of the year without him is ridiculous.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Just because I was curious, Ekiyor has been playing pretty well for Carleton U up in Canada. Now it's Canada, but the guy is getting good numbers up there and Carleton is undefeated for the year.

[GoMuskies]

They beat Wichita State by about 30, causing Gregg Marshall to attempt to physically attack the refs.

[GetUp5]

Having 11 guys isn't good enough if 4 or 5 of them are totally incapable of contributing in any meaningful way.

And Chris and staff knew what they were getting into when they recruited Eddie. Everyone knew right from the jump that one had a chance to blow up at any moment.

So your argument is that the staff isn't recruiting well enough?

I would have been totally fine with that bench coming into the year. Q, Gates, Bernard, O'Mara, Tyrique are all capable BENCH guys. You lose your best player (Sumner) and replace him with a freshman that was supposed to play 5-6 minutes a game behind Sumner and Myles.

[casualfan]

So your argument is that the staff isn't recruiting well enough?



My argument is that the middle to bottom portion of the roster is an absolute wasteland.

O'mara is terrible
Q has been awful
Kaiser is not a big east caliber player

Those are the 3 main guys they were counting on to be bench pieces coming in.

My understanding on Bernard is that he would not be here if it wasn't for the Myles suspension so you can't really list them together since Bernard's spot on the team was dependent on Myles' absence.

I'm not sure if you want to blame that on recruiting, player retention or player development.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Then you and I have a different definition of capable.

You realize why backups are backups right?

[casualfan]

You realize why backups are backups right?

In top 25 programs it's because the guys ahead of them are slightly better.

In our program that gap right now is quite a bit larger than you see other places.

No one is saying that Chris should have had somebody at Ed's level ready to replace him.

What we are saying is that he should have had someone further along than where Q is now.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

In top 25 programs it's because the guys ahead of them are slightly better.

In our program that gap right now is quite a bit larger than you see other places.

No one is saying that Chris should have had somebody at Ed's level ready to replace him.

What we are saying is that he should have had someone further along than where Q is now.

He transferred to Vanderbilt.

[xu82]

In top 25 programs it's because the guys ahead of them are slightly better.

In our program that gap right now is quite a bit larger than you see other places.

No one is saying that Chris should have had somebody at Ed's level ready to replace him.

What we are saying is that he should have had someone further along than where Q is now.

Like Myles?

[XMuskieFTW]

In top 25 programs it's because the guys ahead of them are slightly better.

In our program that gap right now is quite a bit larger than you see other places.

No one is saying that Chris should have had somebody at Ed's level ready to replace him.

What we are saying is that he should have had someone further along than where Q is now.

Yea. We really should've been 5 or 6 deep at PG to plan for a replacement of Ed and Myles. How many other times has an expected 3rd string PG ended up having to play 38 minutes a game?

[casualfan]

He transferred to Vanderbilt.

Is player retention not something that ultimately falls on the coaches shoulders?

[casualfan]

Like Myles?

No, like a backup point guard.

Myles is a 2 that can play some point. Two different things.

[xu82]

Yea. We really should've been 5 or 6 deep at PG to plan for a replacement of Ed and Myles. How many other times has an expected 3rd string PG ended up having to play 38 minutes a game?

I think carrying on is pointless. Some people just....are like that.

[GetUp5]

My argument is that the middle to bottom portion of the roster is an absolute wasteland.

O'mara is terrible
Q has been awful
Kaiser is not a big east caliber player

Those are the 3 main guys they were counting on to be bench pieces coming in.

My understanding on Bernard is that he would not be here if it wasn't for the Myles suspension so you can't really list them together since Bernard's spot on the team was dependent on Myles' absence.

I'm not sure if you want to blame that on recruiting, player retention or player development.

The staff would have taken Bernard even if Myles hadn't been suspended. Why wouldn't they? They had an open scholly.

It's ludicrous to say that Q isn't a capable backup because he has been "awful". He's a FRESHMAN that was supposed to play 5 or 6 minutes a game and be the THIRD ball handler. He's now the ONLY PG on the roster. And no, the staff could not have done anything to change that - Ed got hurt mid season and Myles got suspended in July (and I'm SURE the coaches probably thought he'd be back sooner than he was).

O'Mara and Gates haven't been good. At all. I'll give you that, but what are you suggesting the staff should have done? Look at the roster coming into the season... What would you have done??? You can complain all you want but offer some solutions.

[casualfan]

The staff would have taken Bernard even if Myles hadn't been suspended. Why wouldn't they? They had an open scholly.


No, they wouldn't have. They didn't even start recruiting him until the issues started.

[D-West & PO-Z]

In top 25 programs it's because the guys ahead of them are slightly better.

In our program that gap right now is quite a bit larger than you see other places.

No one is saying that Chris should have had somebody at Ed's level ready to replace him.

What we are saying is that he should have had someone further along than where Q is now.

Q has been way better than you and a lot are giving him credit for. Other than Semaj I cant remember a freshman guard XU has had in the last decade+ as good as Goodin.

Since taking over as the starter his assist to turnover ration is 2.38 which would place him right outside the top 50 in the country. Even over the entire season its just barely under 2.0. Jalen Brunson's (who is much better I know) is 2.0 on the year.

[GetUp5]

No, like a backup point guard.

Myles is a 2 that can play some point. Two different things.

So, like a top 100 freshman and a 5th year senior that is also capable of handling the ball? Both those guys playing behind your NBA talent level PG? Man, I can't believe we didn't bring in more point guards....

[GetUp5]

No, they wouldn't have. They didn't even start recruiting him until the issues started.

I don't know how you can be so confident saying that? How do you know? The staff would have brought him in for sure (again, OPEN scholly, ZERO risk). I imagine it would have been more of a matter of if Bernard thought he'd get enough PT and when Myles got suspended that question was answered.

[GetUp5]

I think carrying on is pointless. Some people just....are like that.

Agreed. I'm removing myself from this.

In summary, we better come into next year with 13 starting caliber players and 7 walk-ons that turn down scholarships at other D-1 schools so they can walk on at Xavier in case we run into injuries again.

[XMuskieFTW]

I don't know how you can be so confident saying that? How do you know? The staff would have brought him in for sure (again, OPEN scholly, ZERO risk). I imagine it would have been more of a matter of if Bernard thought he'd get enough PT and when Myles got suspended that question was answered.

Bingo. The plan was always to redshirt Tyrique(which didn't happen due to Eddie leaving) and to try and get a capable 5th year guard. We weren't able to get one because there was no time to go around until Myles was an idiot. Minutes opened and Bernard decided to come here. If Myles wasn't an idiot, Bernard wouldn't have come here likely, but that wouldn't have been due to our coaches' recruiting efforts, just lack of minutes.

[casualfan]

O'Mara and Gates haven't been good. At all. I'll give you that, but what are you suggesting the staff should have done? Look at the roster coming into the season... What would you have done??? You can complain all you want but offer some solutions.

To start with i would have never offered O'mara. And that is not second guessing. I was on record as not being a fan of his offer when he got it due in large part to his extremely weak list of offers. Of course I got shouted down and told his offer list was weak because he had a specific major he was pursuing. As if that would stop other schools from flipping him an offer.

Same with Kaiser. As I mentioned yesterday on the board I currently live in GA so I had some unique insight there having watched him a bunch in high school. I was never a fan of his game then and I'm definitely not now.

I wouldn't take a kid with the legal issues Ekiyor still had pending. You're playing with fire taking a kid that has a case like that still open and in this case we got burned.

I wouldn't waste two years of scholarship on what has turned out to be an average at best big man (Shid). Take a high school kid 2 years ago instead of shid and either get them some experience last year in blowouts or redshirt them to preserve eligibility.

[casualfan]

I don't know how you can be so confident saying that? How do you know? The staff would have brought him in for sure (again, OPEN scholly, ZERO risk). I imagine it would have been more of a matter of if Bernard thought he'd get enough PT and when Myles got suspended that question was answered.

Rick told a story on the podcast a few weeks back that as soon as he got the news about Myles he was at a recruiting event and walked over to the richmond coach asked them to tell him about Bernard.

According to Rick he had no contact with Malcolm or the Richmond staff prior to Myles issues and his recruitment of Bernard was a direct response to those issues.

[D-West & PO-Z]

To start with i would have never offered O'mara. And that is not second guessing. I was on record as not being a fan of his offer when he got it due in large part to his extremely weak list of offers. Of course I got shouted down and told his offer list was weak because he had a specific major he was pursuing. As if that would stop other schools from flipping him an offer.

Same with Kaiser. As I mentioned yesterday on the board I currently live in GA so I had some unique insight there having watched him a bunch in high school. I was never a fan of his game then and I'm definitely not now.

I wouldn't take a kid with the legal issues Ekiyor still had pending. You're playing with fire taking a kid that has a case like that still open and in this case we got burned.

I wouldn't waste two years of scholarship on what has turned out to be an average at best big man (Shid). Take a high school kid 2 years ago instead of shid and either get them some experience last year in blowouts or redshirt them to preserve eligibility.

So after 2 years (one which started coming off injury) you know we should have never recruited Gates. Ok.

Wish I could see what you said about guys like Jason Love and James Farr after their first 2 years.

[XMuskieFTW]

To start with i would have never offered O'mara. And that is not second guessing. I was on record as not being a fan of his offer when he got it due in large part to his extremely weak list of offers. Of course I got shouted down and told his offer list was weak because he had a specific major he was pursuing. As if that would stop other schools from flipping him an offer.

Same with Kaiser. As I mentioned yesterday on the board I currently live in GA so I had some unique insight there having watched him a bunch in high school. I was never a fan of his game then and I'm definitely not now.

I wouldn't take a kid with the legal issues Ekiyor still had pending. You're playing with fire taking a kid that has a case like that still open and in this case we got burned.

I wouldn't waste two years of scholarship on what has turned out to be an average at best big man (Shid). Take a high school kid 2 years ago instead of shid and either get them some experience last year in blowouts or redshirt them to preserve eligibility.

This is an atriocious way of identifying talent. No one else had offered Sumner, Farr's highest other offer was Ball State

[casualfan]

This is an atriocious way of identifying talent. No one else had offered Sumner, Farr's highest other offer was Ball State

Apples and oranges. Ed and James both committed really early before the summer eval period when most bigger schools hand out offers after they miss on primary targets.

In both cases bigger schools loved them in the summer but by that point they were already committed

Sean on yhe other hand didnt commit until after the summer eval period after bigger schools had a chance to evaliate him while he was still available.

[casualfan]

Q has been way better than you and a lot are giving him credit for. Other than Semaj I cant remember a freshman guard XU has had in the last decade+ as good as Goodin.

Since taking over as the starter his assist to turnover ration is 2.38 which would place him right outside the top 50 in the country. Even over the entire season its just barely under 2.0. Jalen Brunson's (who is much better I know) is 2.0 on the year.

Hes also shooting 35 percent from the field, 25 percent from 3 and 55 percent from the line which is atrocious.

[XMuskieFTW]

Hes also shooting 35 percent from the field, 25 percent from 3 and 55 percent from the line which is atrocious.

So he has strengths and weaknesses. Like most freshmen... Fun fact. Tu shot 35% from the field his freshman year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Hes also shooting 35 percent from the field, 25 percent from 3 and 55 percent from the line which is atrocious.

Yeah his role is not and should not be as a scorer on this current team. He's been pretty damn good from just a pure PG standpoint for being thrown into the fire as a freshman.

[casualfan]

So he has strengths and weaknesses. Like most freshmen... Fun fact. Tu shot 35% from the field his freshman year.

And id have said Tu was terrible his frosh year too.

No one has said Q wont end up being a good player. Just that he isnt one right now.

[paulxu]

And again the team was 13-2 without Myles. Using his absence as a crutch for the recent struggles while ignoring the fact that they had played extremely well the entire first 3/4 of the year without him is ridiculous.

How interesting. Do you understand that the 13-2 record was 3 games into the Big East schedule. (St John's, Providence and Georgetown).
That up till that point we had Sumner?
That we were heading into the meat of the grinder with the ranked BE teams, and that is the exact point in our season when we lost Sumner?
And that shortly there after we were without, and then a less than 100% Bluiett?

Very few teams have backups that can replace potential NBA players on the first team.
If you took Allen out of Duke's team when they were 13-2 for the rest of the season, and Jefferson out for a significant portion, they'd suffer too.
Even with their deep bench of higher rated people.

[TUclutch]

I read posts like this and I think, "Do we forget that our 2 of our top 3 players aren't on the floor?" "Do we forget that our starting point guard started the year third on the point guard depth chart, behind Myles and Ed"?

Is this a sound argument that " layer so and so on another team is a freshman and he had a good game, so our freshman should be doing the same every game"?

X has 8 scholarship players left on this team. Three of them play the same position-center. That means we have 5 players to play the other 4 positions. Of those 5 players, one is a freshman who started the season as our third string point guard, and another was playing at Florida A&M last year and we were once wondering if he would even get playing time this year.

You can't expect role players to become stars and you can't expect swing forwards to be good point guards.

I am very disappointed in the game yesterday. But let's keep some perspective.

This is 100% correct

[GetUp5]

To start with i would have never offered O'mara. And that is not second guessing. I was on record as not being a fan of his offer when he got it due in large part to his extremely weak list of offers. Of course I got shouted down and told his offer list was weak because he had a specific major he was pursuing. As if that would stop other schools from flipping him an offer.

Same with Kaiser. As I mentioned yesterday on the board I currently live in GA so I had some unique insight there having watched him a bunch in high school. I was never a fan of his game then and I'm definitely not now.

I wouldn't take a kid with the legal issues Ekiyor still had pending. You're playing with fire taking a kid that has a case like that still open and in this case we got burned.

I wouldn't waste two years of scholarship on what has turned out to be an average at best big man (Shid). Take a high school kid 2 years ago instead of shid and either get them some experience last year in blowouts or redshirt them to preserve eligibility.

Everyone can't be a star. You have to recruit guys to fill roles. Kaiser is athletic and can shoot. You take a flier on some guys and they may or may not work out. He's a sophomore. Give the kid a break.

Your reasoning for O'Mara is just bad. So Xavier shouldn't have recruited David West? Committed late, don't go run and look it up.

And you wouldn't have taken Rashid? Why? There was an open scholarship, Rashid was a proven D1 talent and you were losing Farr and Reynolds? If Mack would have done what you're suggesting you'd just be in here whining about how we don't have any experienced big men.

Close the laptop, head home, call it a day.

[TUclutch]

Then you and I have a different definition of capable.

So now you want Big East staring caliber players as our backups? Lol ok. No one has two full lines of starters. Sometimes youll have a couple other guys to fill in well. Bernard and Q would both be praised for their play as role players if they were playing 5-10 minutes at the level they have been

[TUclutch]

No, they wouldn't have. They didn't even start recruiting him until the issues started.

Yes, they would have considered it. The Myles situation may have increased the needs, but they had been looking for a 5th yr guard all along.

Add casualfan to the list of wackjob posters weve seen this year. Im gonna compile a list lol

[paulxu]

Same with Kaiser. As I mentioned yesterday on the board I currently live in GA so I had some unique insight there having watched him a bunch in high school. I was never a fan of his game then and I'm definitely not now.

I live in South Carolina. I have no unique insight. But...I traveled to Alpharetta a few times to watch him play at St Francis. After he committed I had a chance to meet his family and the staff there.

He's a sophomore and has suffered some injury setbacks. Without your unique insight, I'm unable to tell at this early date if it was a good idea to offer him a scholarship. If it was a bad idea, we are in the company of some other schools like Miami, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech, Cincinnati, etc.

[X Factor]

I don't blame Mack for the injuries or for Myles being an idiot, however, this is one of the worst defensive teams we've had at Xavier in a while. I DO put that on Coach Mack.

We're barely in the Top 100 in defensive efficiency as ranked by KenPom. During this 6 game losing streak (never thought I'd type that around here), all 6 games have been by 7 or more points. It's not like we're losing on last second shots.

We leave bad and good shooters wide open. We can't contain dribble penetration. Guys lose sight of their man and we always have 3 or 4 guys scrambling to find someone.

Last year, we had A LOT of length in Reynolds and Farr and that's why the 1-3-1 zone worked so well. That was one of Mack's best defensive teams, but the 1-3-1 helped out a ton. For the most part, Macks' teams just aren't that good defensively.

You have to have a REALLY good defense as well as a REALLY good offense if you want to go REALLY far in the NCAA tournament, and Mack's teams just haven't had the defense. We did last year, and that team was built to go far, but we all know what happened.

Mack is going to have to teach better or get players that can actually defend.

Don't get me started on the shooting woes of this team either.

[xu82]

I don't blame Mack for the injuries or for Myles being an idiot, however, this is one of the worst defensive teams we've had at Xavier in a while. I DO put that on Coach Mack.

We're barely in the Top 100 in defensive efficiency as ranked by KenPom. During this 6 game losing streak (never thought I'd type that around here), all 6 games have been by 7 or more points. It's not like we're losing on last second shots.

We leave bad and good shooters wide open. We can't contain dribble penetration. Guys lose sight of their man and we always have 3 or 4 guys scrambling to find someone.

Last year, we had A LOT of length in Reynolds and Farr and that's why the 1-3-1 zone worked so well. That was one of Mack's best defensive teams, but the 1-3-1 helped out a ton. For the most part, Macks' teams just aren't that good defensively.

You have to have a REALLY good defense as well as a REALLY good offense if you want to go REALLY far in the NCAA tournament, and Mack's teams just haven't had the defense. We did last year, and that team was built to go far, but we all know what happened.

Mack is going to have to teach better or get players that can actually defend.

Don't get me started on the shooting woes of this team either.

Isn't that one of the best qualities about next years large and encouraging incoming class?

[casualfan]

Isn't that one of the best qualities about next years large and encouraging incoming class?

I know Scruggs and Marshall are supposed to be good and that Ridder has some questions about his quickness.

Not sure on the other three.

[Olsingledigit]

I know Scruggs and Marshall are supposed to be good and that Ridder has some questions about his quickness.

Not sure on the other three.

The 6'10" JUCO center sounds very promising. Video indicates he is very coordinated.

[X Factor]

Isn't that one of the best qualities about next years large and encouraging incoming class?

I sure hope so, but if you think this team is a poor three point shooting team, which they are, wait until next year without Trevon.

[X-ceptional]

The 6'10" JUCO center sounds very promising. Video indicates he is very coordinated.

From the Scout article (http://www.scout.com/college/xavier/story/1744246-xavier-lands-juco-big-man-for-2017-18) on the commitment:


"I really pride myself on defense and rebounding," Ernst said. "I like to contest shots, change shots and protect the rim. Just play physical and do a lot of the little things."

Let's hope that's the case.

[Masterofreality]

Coming into the season... The staff was looking at this...

PG - Ed Sumner
SG - Myles Davis
SF - JP Macura
PF - Trevon Bluiett
C - Rashid Gaston

Malcolm Bernard
Kaiser Gates
Quentin Goodin
Tyrique Jones
Sean O'Mara
Eddie Ekiyor
That is 11 guys and only 2 freshmen. How exactly were the coaches supposed to prepare for losing Myles in July and Ekiyor in August?

With this you are short of guards. 3 scholarship guards on that roster. Unacceptable.

After Ed goes down we had and have one pg. This was well known way back when yet no 5th year or JC kid was brought in. That lack of guard depth on this squad is ludicrous, ridiculous and inexcusable. Guards are a dime a dozen.

[AviatorX]

With this you are short of guards. 3 scholarship guards on that roster. Unacceptable.

After Ed goes down we had and have one pg. This was well known way back when yet no 5th year or JC kid was brought in. That lack of guard depth on this squad is ludicrous, ridiculous and inexcusable. Guards are a dime a dozen.

What 5th year guard would want to come be XU's 12th man? Guys want to play. Not sure how many JUCO or graduate transfers there are out there who could crack a guard rotation of Ed/Myles/Q with Macura playing some 2 in bigger lineups. If there were any, the competition for them would have been STEEP.

I guess if X had a dime a dozen guy in that role now playing 5 Brandon Randolph/LAJ like minutes you would be appeased? I think Mack built the roster and knew that if 2 of his top 3 guys were out for the year there would be trouble. I think most coaches around the country probably know that every season. That's just reality anywhere.

The guard depth on this team was perfectly fine, until 2 of the guards were out of the picture late in the game. That's a lot to hold against a coach.

If Brunson tore his ACL tomorrow (obviously hope that never happens to him), how would Nova's guard rotation look without him and Booth? Did Jay Wright commit a ludicrous, ridiculous, and inexcusable error in roster management?

[Masterofreality]

What 5th year guard would want to come be XU's 12th man? Guys want to play. Not sure how many JUCO or graduate transfers there are out there who could crack a guard rotation of Ed/Myles/Q with Macura playing some 2 in bigger lineups. If there were any, the competition for them would have been STEEP.

I guess if X had a dime a dozen guy in that role now playing 5 Brandon Randolph/LAJ like minutes you would be appeased? I think Mack built the roster and knew that if 2 of his top 3 guys were out for the year there would be trouble. I think most coaches around the country probably know that every season. That's just reality anywhere.

The guard depth on this team was perfectly fine, until 2 of the guards were out of the picture late in the game. That's a lot to hold against a coach.

If Brunson tore his ACL tomorrow (obviously hope that never happens to him), how would Nova's guard rotation look without him and Booth? Did Jay Wright commit a ludicrous, ridiculous, and inexcusable error in roster management?

3 guards on the roster is not "perfectly fine" and way to dismiss the Xavier program as a place where "no guard would want to be the 12th man". Well, being a guard would not mean you are the "12th man". Now we have one.....that's ONE scholarship guard....a freshman.

THAT is ludicrous.

[AviatorX]

3 guards on the roster is not "perfectly fine" and way to dismiss the Xavier program as a place where "no guard would want to be the 12th man". Well, being a guard would not mean you are the "12th man". Now we have one.....that's ONE scholarship guard....a freshman.

THAT is ludicrous.

That's not dismissive of Xavier's program at all. How many minutes do you think this hypothetical guard would have received behind Ed/Myles/Q assuming all went as planned? If anything, it's a testament to the fact that X was loaded at guard coming into the year.

What do you think about the Nova example?

Playing time is a major concern as it should be when guys choose a school. It was a huge selling point for X and a huge concern for IU in the Scruggs recruitment. My guess is Mack would have had to dip below the talent level he's used to if he wanted another guard last summer. Everyone on here would have questioned the signing.

[X Factor]

I don't care if Bernard and Gaston weren't projected to play as large of roles as they have this season, Xavier should never be taking kids from Norfolk State and Florida A&M.

Name another Top 25 caliber program who is relying on two kids who last played at two of the worst DI programs in the country. Name another Top 25 program who even has two kids on their bench receiving playing time that came from as low a level DI ball as Gaston and Bernard.

I know they've worked hard this year and have done all they're capable, but if Xavier has goals to reach the Final Four, we're not going to get there when two of our main players, or even bench players were playing at such a low level of DI ball throughout their career. We need to recruit kids at a Xavier / BE / Top 10-20 level, and then develop them.

[bleedXblue]

I don't care if Bernard and Gaston weren't projected to play as large of roles as they have this season, Xavier should never be taking kids from Norfolk State and Florida A&M.

Name another Top 25 caliber program who is relying on two kids who last played at two of the worst DI programs in the country. Name another Top 25 program who even has two kids on their bench receiving playing time that came from as low a level DI ball as Gaston and Bernard.

I know they've worked hard this year and have done all they're capable, but if Xavier has goals to reach the Final Four, we're not going to get there when two of our main players, or even bench players were playing at such a low level of DI ball throughout their career. We need to recruit kids at a Xavier / BE / Top 10-20 level, and then develop them.

I made this point a few weeks ago and got creamed. We really have not gotten a high level transfer since Crawford. Stain was great but was not highly sought after.

[paulxu]

I thought I posted this a bit ago, but can't find it.

Weren't we scheduled to have 2 more point guards on the roster this year, Randolph and Austin?

Also, we have the #11 recruiting class for 2017.

[XfansinKy]

Yes. Randolph, Austin, Myles, London, Ekiyor, Martin, Lyons, Lathan, Wells, and whowever else I'm missing. That's a team in itself. Can't devolop a top 10 program like that. Live and learn. I'm still behind coach Mack though. It looks like our best returning player will be Tyrique.

[Masterofreality]

That's not dismissive of Xavier's program at all. How many minutes do you think this hypothetical guard would have received behind Ed/Myles/Q assuming all went as planned? If anything, it's a testament to the fact that X was loaded at guard coming into the year.

What do you think about the Nova example?

Playing time is a major concern as it should be when guys choose a school. It was a huge selling point for X and a huge concern for IU in the Scruggs recruitment. My guess is Mack would have had to dip below the talent level he's used to if he wanted another guard last summer. Everyone on here would have questioned the signing.

What? You really said this "Loaded at Guard.? The list above has 3... That's THREE total guards one of which was a freshman. That is not "loaded" in my opinion.

You do understand that the college game is 40 minutes? That Xavier was ranked in the Top 10 most of last year? That depth is important? That any guard who transferred in from JUCO or Fifth year would have been the first guard off the bench ahead of Q? Those should have been major selling points to a kid looking to move. Somehow this staff messed up by not selling their own kids like Brandon Randolph and Larry Austin hard enough to stay either.

Quit trying to excuse this mistake on the part of the staff for not going after, or trying harder to keep, another guard....hard. When Austin decided to transfer, THAT should have been one of their first priorities. Now we see the aftermath.

[AviatorX]

What? You really said this "Loaded at Guard.? The list above has 3... That's THREE total guards one of which was a freshman. That is not "loaded" in my opinion.

You do understand that the college game is 40 minutes? That Xavier was ranked in the Top 10 most of last year? That depth is important? That any guard who transferred in from JUCO or Fifth year would have been the first guard off the bench ahead of Q? Those should have been major selling points to a kid looking to move. Somehow this staff messed up by not selling their own kids like Brandon Randolph and Larry Austin hard enough to stay either.

Quit trying to excuse this mistake on the part of the staff for not going after, or trying harder to keep, another guard....hard. When Austin decided to transfer, THAT should have been one of their first priorities. Now we see the aftermath.

I don't need or want to excuse anything the staff does, I'm not on the staff nor do I really care to defend their reputation. I just think you're building a ridiculous case completely on hindsight while being sarcastic and dismissive of other's points. Obviously you are a smart guy MOR, and an extremely loyal X fan, so it makes sense to be frustrated with this roster as it is but the reality of how it looked in November is just so different.

X was planning on starting a 1st Team Preseason All BE and projected 1st round NBA pick and a 5th year senior seen as the leader of the team, with a top 100 freshman and last year's BE 6th man of the year also projected to get some minutes at the 1/2 slot. You do understand that the college game is ONLY 40 minutes right? If Sumner and Myles were both on this team, how many minutes do you think they would play in tight games? What transfer or JUCO would look at that situation as one with plenty of playing time?

Why do you think Larry Austin transferred? He knew he wasn't going to play. You are making a gigantic assumption that whoever X brought in would be better than Goodin, who was a consensus top 100 player. Even if that hypothetical guy was better than Q, do you think Top 100 recruits are cool with getting to campus and being 3rd string? Not really and who can blame them. It's almost as if the staff realized that bringing in another guy to eat backcourt minutes ahead of Q isn't a good way to keep your highly touted freshman happy. Sure, if a guy who is good enough to throw that equation out the window comes along you take him, but that wasn't the case.

Can you think of one example of a guy playing high major D1 minutes this year X could have brought in as a 5th year or JUCO? Maybe Canyon Berry or Katin Reinhardt, but Reinhardt looked at X and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why he may have preferred Marquette's situation. Also, isn't Malcolm Bernard a 5th year guy playing some guard minutes? You tell me.

Not even sure what to say about the staff not convincing LAJ or Randolph to stay other than I can only imagine what your posts about them would look like after seeing your opinion on a freshman Q.

Again, would love to hear your thoughts on Jay Wright's backcourt depth this year. Also would love for you to point me to a college backcourt that would survive losing its two best guys for the season. I'm sure Kansas would be all set at guard without Frank Mason and Devonte Graham.

[XU 87]

JP and Bernard can both play guard. They just aren't point guards. So X started the season with 5 guards.

X started the season with 3 point guards. Now they are down to one- who was third on the depth chart at the start of the season.

I don't recall anyone complaining in the off-season about lack of guard depth. It was only after the starting guards went down that depth became a problem.

[XUFan09]

The depth you lose definitely matters. In 2010-2011, Xavier lost Brad Redford in the preseason and Justin Martin unexpectedly didn't qualify. That hurt, but it didn't impact a strong starting lineup. They lost at best a 6th and 7th man.

This year, they lost their star point guard with NBA prospects and a 5th year senior who was the leader on the team and one of the better players in the Big East. That's the starting backcourt right there and two of the three most important players on the team. They replaced them with a transfer and freshman who were both worthy of minutes off the bench but who in no way could fill those shoes. That's the kind of depth that is hard to recover from.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

JP and Bernard can both play guard. They just aren't point guards. So X started the season with 5 guards.

X started the season with 3 point guards. Now they are down to one- who was third on the depth chart at the start of the season.

I don't recall anyone complaining in the off-season about lack of guard depth. It was only after the starting guards went down that depth became a problem.

Judging by the amount of turnovers that both those guys generate, they are NOT "guards". They are more like 3's, just like Tre is. Tre even plays some 4 and I would submit that Malcom in some lineups, plays a 4 too. The lack of defense that X has put up against teams with legitimate guards recently proves it.

This roster was poorly planned/constructed/deconstructed that was exacerbated by injury and a knucklehead. One of my very close friends who is a former recent Xavier Manager, texted me a week ago saying you could place blame on "Mack the recruiter" for this guard problem. Inexcuseable to not add a guard during the summer. If you could add Malcolm, you could have added a guard. Period.

[XU 87]

Macura is a 2/3. He's just not a point guard.

Most if not all teams can't and don't prepare for both starting guards not playing.

X could and did survive with one guard not playing. Both guards not playing has been too much to overcome.

And who is this unknown 5th year guard who 1) would have come to X and 2) who was good enough to help the team?

[AviatorX]

Macura is a 2/3. He's just not a point guard.

Most if not all teams can't and don't prepare for both starting guards not playing.

X could and did survive with one guard not playing. Both guards not playing has been too much to overcome.

And who is this unknown 5th year guard who 1) would have come to X and 2) who was good enough to help the team?

Good luck getting MOR to address that one. When you've got a narrative ya gotta stick by it no matter what.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't need or want to excuse anything the staff does, I'm not on the staff nor do I really care to defend their reputation. I just think you're building a ridiculous case completely on hindsight while being sarcastic and dismissive of other's points. Obviously you are a smart guy MOR, and an extremely loyal X fan, so it makes sense to be frustrated with this roster as it is but the reality of how it looked in November is just so different.

X was planning on starting a 1st Team Preseason All BE and projected 1st round NBA pick and a 5th year senior seen as the leader of the team, with a top 100 freshman and last year's BE 6th man of the year also projected to get some minutes at the 1/2 slot. You do understand that the college game is ONLY 40 minutes right? If Sumner and Myles were both on this team, how many minutes do you think they would play in tight games? What transfer or JUCO would look at that situation as one with plenty of playing time?

Why do you think Larry Austin transferred? He knew he wasn't going to play. You are making a gigantic assumption that whoever X brought in would be better than Goodin, who was a consensus top 100 player. Even if that hypothetical guy was better than Q, do you think Top 100 recruits are cool with getting to campus and being 3rd string? Not really and who can blame them. It's almost as if the staff realized that bringing in another guy to eat backcourt minutes ahead of Q isn't a good way to keep your highly touted freshman happy. Sure, if a guy who is good enough to throw that equation out the window comes along you take him, but that wasn't the case.

Can you think of one example of a guy playing high major D1 minutes this year X could have brought in as a 5th year or JUCO? Maybe Canyon Berry or Katin Reinhardt, but Reinhardt looked at X and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why he may have preferred Marquette's situation. Also, isn't Malcolm Bernard a 5th year guy playing some guard minutes? You tell me.

Not even sure what to say about the staff not convincing LAJ or Randolph to stay other than I can only imagine what your posts about them would look like after seeing your opinion on a freshman Q.

Again, would love to hear your thoughts on Jay Wright's backcourt depth this year. Also would love for you to point me to a college backcourt that would survive losing its two best guys for the season. I'm sure Kansas would be all set at guard without Frank Mason and Devonte Graham.


JP and Bernard can both play guard. They just aren't point guards. So X started the season with 5 guards.

X started the season with 3 point guards. Now they are down to one- who was third on the depth chart at the start of the season.

I don't recall anyone complaining in the off-season about lack of guard depth. It was only after the starting guards went down that depth became a problem.

Yeah this is such a ridiculous hindsight debate. NO ONE was complaining about depth going into this year that I can recall.

Are we really clamoring LAJ? Seriously? I dont remember anyone being upset with the staff for not convincing him to stay.

This is pretty funny. We lost our starting backcourt, I'm not sure of another team in the country that would not have major problems if that happened.

[XU 87]

Are we really clamoring LAJ? Seriously? I dont remember anyone being upset with the staff for not convincing him to stay.



Even if he stayed, I doubt LAJ could have helped this team in its current situation. He's at best a role player, and that's the problem- we're now expecting role players to fill the shoes of our best players.

[Masterofreality]

Good luck getting MOR to address that one. When you've got a narrative ya gotta stick by it no matter what.

Just like your narrative that we were "Loaded with Guards", right.

Pretty empty load, huh?

[Masterofreality]

Yeah this is such a ridiculous hindsight debate. NO ONE was complaining about depth going into this year that I can recall.

Are we really clamoring LAJ? Seriously?

No one was complaining about anything in the offseason. Therein kinda lies the problem. Burnout apathy? But apparently some of the coaches were somewhat concerned because they made a move at Markell Johnson, a kid from up here in Cleveland who wound up going to NC State despite one pundit-Jerry Meyer- thinking that he was coming to X. Not saying he was the answer, but obviously there was thinking about another guard from the staff. My point is that there was seemingly no effort to come up with someone else from JC or 5th year that could have helped THIS year.

And I don't see anyone "clamoring" for LAJ. But the staff recruited him originally for a reason, and he received playing time and wasn't rooted to the bench. Maybe he was determined to leave, but there seems to be way too many guys transferring out in the last couple of years. Not saying Xavier is much different than many places, but it is a fair question to ask, given this current roster state, how much effort was made to keep them?

[AviatorX]

Just like your narrative that we were "Loaded with Guards", right.

Pretty empty load, huh?

Yeah it is pretty empty now that the 2 best of the group aren't playing. I never questioned that.

Such a crazy narrative that a backcourt planned to feature Sumner, Davis, Macura, and Goodin was loaded. Could probably find 25 preseason articles ranking X's backcourt at top 10.

[paulxu]

Things change so quickly. Our backcourt was apparently under-rated. This article is from November.


7. Xavier

Case for being over-power ranked: Xavier has some questions in its frontcourt, to the point that I can’t tell if I’m joking when I say I want to see head coach Chris Mack try a five-guard lineup. If a team has to pick between having great guards and great bigs, it’s definitely better to have great guards, so it’s not like Xavier is doomed or anything. But still: Every team in America will have weaknesses to open the season, and many of those will be fixed to a certain extent by March. It’s hard to envision a scenario in which interior play isn’t going to be a constant weakness for Xavier all season, which means the wrong NCAA tournament matchup could bring an otherwise great campaign crashing down.


Case for being under-power ranked: Xavier’s backcourt is so great that it probably won’t matter if the Musketeers don’t dominate the paint. Edmond Sumner is a potential first-round NBA draft pick, Myles Davis is on the verge of scoring 1,000 career points, J.P. Macura averaged 9.4 points per game on 47 percent shooting in 2015–16 … and none of them is Xavier’s best player. That designation belongs to Trevon Bluiett, a 6-foot-6 do-everything junior who averaged 15.1 points, 6.1 rebounds, and 2.2 assists last season and could play four positions if he had to. And besides, I’m making a bigger deal about the Xavier frontcourt than I probably should be. Tyrique Jones is a four-star recruit who should be able to at least clog the paint and grab some boards. And Norfolk State transfer RaShid Gaston averaged 15.5 points and 9.6 boards per game in 2014–15; while he’s probably not going to put up those numbers for the Musketeers, he’ll give them a veteran presence capable of holding his own down low.


https://theringer.com/college-basketball-preseason-power-rankings-all-the-nations-best-teams-are-flawed-342b68c51fe7#.7yyovg46m

[AviatorX]

Things change so quickly. Our backcourt was apparently under-rated. This article is from November.


https://theringer.com/college-basketball-preseason-power-rankings-all-the-nations-best-teams-are-flawed-342b68c51fe7#.7yyovg46m

Exactly. There are countless articles like this out there from CBS, NBC Sports etc. The idea that Mack did a poor job stocking the backcourt this season is patently absurd. It was without a doubt loaded. I guess it's fair to say that Mack did a poor job constructing the roster for the potential of Sumner and Davis being out, but that's obviously ridiculous.

[Masterofreality]

Convienient that they include 3's as the "backcourt".

See how many turnovers occur when JP, Tre and Malcolm have to handle the ball from out?

Case closed.

[AviatorX]

Convienient that they include 3's as the "backcourt".

See how many turnovers occur when JP, Tre and Malcolm have to handle the ball from out?

Case closed.

Case closed. You're right about that.

[paulxu]

MOR, I concur another good guard would have helped.
I think that might have been difficult to come by, but we did have space to fill if we could have found a one year player.

[Masterofreality]

Case closed. You're right about that.

Right. 3's are called"Small Forwards" not "Guards".

Remember, class. The debate is about "Guards".

[Masterofreality]

Two straight possessions vs DePaul with no guard on the court. Two terrible shots. No points. Lead lost. Case closed.