Sumner Shoulder Injury

[whopper]

I remember it was thought that Sumner would shut it down due to a shoulder tear before the ACL occurred It happened near end of Villanova and he was ineffective and deferring for a number of games finishing with a wince of pain. Very bad luck but with both injuries hopefully treated what does this mean for him next year? Hard to believe how the guard situation went from a strength to weakness and I cringe every time Goodin fouls as I can see him become less and less aggressive(understandably)

[xavierj]

I remember it was thought that Sumner would shut it down due to a shoulder tear before the ACL occurred It happened near end of Villanova and he was ineffective and deferring for a number of games finishing with a wince of pain. Very bad luck but with both injuries hopefully treated what does this mean for him next year? Hard to believe how the guard situation went from a strength to weakness and I cringe every time Goodin fouls as I can see him become less and less aggressive(understandably)

The problem is that losing Myles Davis and Larry Austin junior left them with no depth. You cannot forsee the injury to Sumner, so its unfortunate. Goodin was supposed to play 10-15 minutes and develop and learn the system and instead he has to play 40 minutes. He will be better for it. I thought he was more aggressive yesterday but needs to take care of the ball.

[markchal]

was there ever any update on the shoulder? Is it going to require surgery as well?

[nuts4xu]

was there ever any update on the shoulder? Is it going to require surgery as well?

Yes he needs a torn labrum repaired. Last I heard, the plan was to do the shoulder surgery 3 months after the knee. They can't operate on both at the same time. The shoulder surgery will have a recovery time of roughly 6 months.

[drudy23]

Good gracious...that sucks for him.

[sgarcia]

Sounds like that puts him out for most of the non conference schedule if he comes back.

[XMuskieFTW]

Yes he needs a torn labrum repaired. Last I heard, the plan was to do the shoulder surgery 3 months after the knee. They can't operate on both at the same time. The shoulder surgery will have a recovery time of roughly 6 months.

Yeaa. ACL surgery is this week, so he's probably not going to be back to his old self until November(maybe longer with how tricky recoveries can be)

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Yeaa. ACL surgery is this week, so he's probably not going to be back to his old self until November(maybe longer with how tricky recoveries can be)

Wow, that is an absolute bummer for that kid. November just for his ACL. His junior season is near lost already.

[bleedXblue]

If you're an NBA team I don't see how in the world they take a chance on a guy with two surgeries and the recovery time needed. Add to that his game is so much predicated on his speed and quickness and no one knows how well he will come back. Feel so bad for Ed. What a kick in the nuts! I hope through all of this he comes back healthy and has a great year positioning him well for next years draft.

[bleedXblue]

Wow, that is an absolute bummer for that kid. November just for his ACL. His junior season is near lost already.

6 months from June 1 puts him at December 1st.

[markchal]

Oh wow, that's rough. I don't know why but I thought he'd be good to go next fall. I can't see any way he leaves now, right? He could probably play his way into the first round again with a strong conference showing next year.

[bleedXblue]

Ed has to change his style of play some. He doesn't have the physical build to take the ball to the basket as recklessly as he does, as often as he does.

[SemajParlor]

Ed has to change his style of play some. He doesn't have the physical build to take the ball to the basket as recklessly as he does, as often as he does.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. His head injury was a freak play and his ACL injury was more of an awkward landing than anything. Gaining a couple of pounds would help his physicality, but not sure it's any more than sheer bad luck. Just my opinion.

[bleedXblue]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. His head injury was a freak play and his ACL injury was more of an awkward landing than anything. Gaining a couple of pounds would help his physicality, but not sure it's any more than sheer bad luck. Just my opinion.

In addition to reducing the amount of contact to limit injury....since he's had 3 significant injuries in 1.5 years of play........it will dramatically improve his chances of playing at the next level if he can develop a better mid range game.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Oh wow, that's rough. I don't know why but I thought he'd be good to go next fall. I can't see any way he leaves now, right? He could probably play his way into the first round again with a strong conference showing next year.

Might be one of those situations where he doesnt want to come back and sturggle following injury and put some crappy play on tape. The unknown of his recovery might be better than the reality if he struggles through rehab at all and take some time to get back to form coming back.

At first I thought he'd come back but if hes being told he wont be back until December at the earliest he may decide to go pro and hope hes a second rounder and focus on rehab only.

[casualfan]

Might be one of those situations where he doesnt want to come back and sturggle following injury and put some crappy play on tape. The unknown of his recovery might be better than the reality if he struggles through rehab at all and take some time to get back to form coming back.

At first I thought he'd come back but if hes being told he wont be back until December at the earliest he may decide to go pro and hope hes a second rounder and focus on rehab only.

I agree with this and I think it's tough logic to argue with.

Even if he's back by December he's likely not going to be 100% right away. Most guys coming back from an ACL are not 100% right away, especially mentally.

And that's not to mention that he's coming back from a labrum as well.

It's going to be a really difficult decision, but if I was Ed and could get a second round guarantee this year I think I'd take it.

Even if he comes back and gets back to the form he showed this year there's no guarantee he would be a first round pick.


I'll be curious to see if either he or Tre go through the ceremonies on Wednesday.

[markchal]

I guess it never really hit me how devastating an ACL injury can be for an explosive point guard, but now I hope whatever he does, that he can at least get back to the player he used to be.

If he doesn't get drafted in the 2nd, would a European team be more hesitant to give him $$ if he was injured? Is it better for him to come back and maybe have a strong feb-march to help show he can have a career playing somewhere?

[casualfan]

I guess it never really hit me how devastating an ACL injury can be for an explosive point guard, but now I hope whatever he does, that he can at least get back to the player he used to be.

If he doesn't get drafted in the 2nd, would a European team be more hesitant to give him $$ if he was injured? Is it better for him to come back and maybe have a strong feb-march to help show he can have a career playing somewhere?

I would be floored if he didn't get picked in the second and even then I would imagine an NBA team would sign him as a free agent even though he is hurt.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The biggest problem is he has the labrum injury as well. If he was dealing with just ACL, barring any set back, he would likely be ready to go for the start of the season.

[casualfan]

If he was dealing with just ACL, barring any set back, he would likely be ready to go for the start of the season.

Eh. maybe. The season starts in 8 months and he hasn't even been under the knife yet.

He'd definitely be cutting it close.

[XUMIOH12]

I agree with this and I think it's tough logic to argue with.

Even if he's back by December he's likely not going to be 100% right away. Most guys coming back from an ACL are not 100% right away, especially mentally.

And that's not to mention that he's coming back from a labrum as well.

It's going to be a really difficult decision, but if I was Ed and could get a second round guarantee this year I think I'd take it.

Even if he comes back and gets back to the form he showed this year there's no guarantee he would be a first round pick.


I'll be curious to see if either he or Tre go through the ceremonies on Wednesday.

It is SENIOR day. They can't do that stuff unless they are SENIORS.

[casualfan]

It is SENIOR day. They can't do that stuff unless they are SENIORS.

Is that a Xavier policy or are you just taking the name literally?

I know tons of schools let guys who have decided to not come back get recognized on senior day.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Eh. maybe. The season starts in 8 months and he hasn't even been under the knife yet.

He'd definitely be cutting it close.

6 months is typically (again barring issues) when a player would be able to start basketball activity again. With another 2 months(and a half I dont think season started until the 17th this year?) he could easily be ready for start of season with just ACL. But any minor set back (or even no set back but just slower recovery) he could have been not ready until beginning of December. That would have been the long end of recovery though.

[GoMuskies]

Is that a Xavier policy or are you just taking the name literally?

I know tons of schools let guys who have decided to not come back get recognized on senior day.

I don't know, but I suspect the policy at Xavier would be only to honor those on track to graduate by the end of the semester.

[casualfan]

6 months is typically (again barring issues) when a player would be able to start basketball activity again. With another 2 months(and a half I dont think season started until the 17th this year?) he could easily be ready for start of season with just ACL. But any minor set back (or even no set back but just slower recovery) he could have been not ready until beginning of December. That would have been the long end of recovery though.

That's my point. Yeah, if everything goes as well as possible he could be back by November.

How many times on an ACL recovery do things go that well though?

I mean it's ultimately a moot point because of the labrum, but in my limited experience with ACL's and his past knee issues I would not bet on him being a smooth as can be rehab guy.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's my point. Yeah, if everything goes as well as possible he could be back by November.

How many times on an ACL recovery do things go that well though?

I mean it's ultimately a moot point because of the labrum, but in my limited experience with ACL's and his past knee issues I would not bet on him being a smooth as can be rehab guy.

Yeah, it would very easy for him not to be ready for start of the season, let alone be back to the player he was. But like you said moot point if he truly needs the labrum surgery. The more and more I think about it and talk about it the more I think he is gone.

[casualfan]

The more and more I think about it and talk about it the more I think he is gone.

I'm definitely in this camp although I'd add the caveat that I'm thinking about it from what he should do and not what he will do.

I just don't think the risks associated with him coming back are worth what I think would be a limited reward.

[bleedXblue]

Don't discount the fact that sticking around for another year and getting his degree is important to him.

You guys talking about a 2nd round pick are funny. You think a GM is going to take his second pick on a guy that needs two major surgeries? That's isn't going to happen. Period.

Free agency......a definite option, but that gives him no security whatsoever.

Get your degree, rehab and hopefully have a great year to position yourself as a first rounder

[XUMIOH12]

Is that a Xavier policy or are you just taking the name literally?

I know tons of schools let guys who have decided to not come back get recognized on senior day.

I believe they need to be a senior academically and ready to graduate in the Spring. I don't remember Xavier ever honoring someone just because they decided not to come back. And, both those decisions for those players probably haven't been made yet anyways. So, no, they won't be honored against Marquette on Wednesday lol.

Are there really tons of schools that recognize guys who aren't coming back on senior day? I don't follow other schools senior days lol, but would be surprised if that was as common of a thing as you seem to think it is.

[XUMIOH12]

Don't discount the fact that sticking around for another year and getting his degree is important to him.

You guys talking about a 2nd round pick are funny. You think a GM is going to take his second pick on a guy that needs two major surgeries? That's isn't going to happen. Period.

Free agency......a definite option, but that gives him no security whatsoever.

Get your degree, rehab and hopefully have a great year to position yourself as a first rounder

I totally agree with this. I doubt anyone would draft him at all this year. It really just depends if Sumner wants to go all in on banking on a full recovery and latching on with a team in the middle of next season : Or, if he wants to rehab, come back to Xavier (hopefully) in December and (hopefully) perform well enough to get drafted. But should also have his degree.

Personally, I think he will come back next year. But, that's just my opinion.

[XUMIOH12]

I would be floored if he didn't get picked in the second and even then I would imagine an NBA team would sign him as a free agent even though he is hurt.

I would get floored if he did get picked at all. Also, a 2nd round guarantee really is not a guarantee of anything at all. I could see him being picked up as a FA, but it wouldn't be until he was recovered and could actually work out for teams.

[muskiefan82]

UK should have "Freshman Honor Day" the way they go through them. Maybe they do, but they call it "The Draft"

[xu82]

The 2 injuries/recoveries at once really sucks. I recall an NFL WR who went up, came down....and tore both ACL's. I don't know how you go about fixing that!

I'm surprised Ed didn't have surgery sooner. I recall from my son's surgery it was critical to maintain strength in the leg because you lose so much when surgery happens. I'll just trust he's getting the best possible advice and care, and say a prayer that it all works out for him.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Don't discount the fact that sticking around for another year and getting his degree is important to him.

You guys talking about a 2nd round pick are funny. You think a GM is going to take his second pick on a guy that needs two major surgeries? That's isn't going to happen. Period.

Free agency......a definite option, but that gives him no security whatsoever.

Get your degree, rehab and hopefully have a great year to position yourself as a first rounder

NBA teams take 2nd round picks on fliers all the time, foreign guys who wont be able to come over for several years and others. As non guaranteed contracts it is an easy non committal pick. They usually are more likely to take an unknown than a guy who has shown his ceiling.

I'm not 100% sure what they can do with their injured players though. I would think they could take Ed, have him rehabbing and he wouldnt be using a roster spot and then they could evaluate his recovery but 2nd round picks are kind not highly valued in the NBA were they wouldnt take a flier.

[casualfan]

NBA teams take 2nd round picks on fliers all the time, foreign guys who wont be able to come over for several years and others. As non guaranteed contracts it is an easy non committal pick. They usually are more likely to take an unknown than a guy who has shown his ceiling.

I'm not 100% sure what they can do with their injured players though. I would think they could take Ed, have him rehabbing and he wouldnt be using a roster spot and then they could evaluate his recovery but 2nd round picks are kind not highly valued in the NBA were they wouldnt take a flier.

Exactly.

Go look at the last 5 picks in last years NBA Draft.

If you're an NBA team and you have a chance to nab a guy with first round talent in the mid to late second round it's a no brainer.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The 2 injuries/recoveries at once really sucks. I recall an NFL WR who went up, came down....and tore both ACL's. I don't know how you go about fixing that!

I'm surprised Ed didn't have surgery sooner. I recall from my son's surgery it was critical to maintain strength in the leg because you lose so much when surgery happens. I'll just trust he's getting the best possible advice and care, and say a prayer that it all works out for him.

The ACL surgeries are usually delayed a couple weeks to let the swelling go down before surgery and he's doing the appropriate pre-hab I'm sure before surgery. It does seem like the injury was a while ago though so maybe the swelling was taking a while? Not sure.

[XMuskieFTW]

Is that a Xavier policy or are you just taking the name literally?

I know tons of schools let guys who have decided to not come back get recognized on senior day.

That generally only happens if it's a 4th year junior. I've never seen a third year guy honored like that on a Senior Day.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

IMO, Trevon is gone. He is 22 now and is only getting older, some sites have him as a late second rounder.

Ed is 80/20 that he will stay. He is studying a tough degree and still has 4th year here. He could/should graduate and play a partial season. It's a win/win for him. He won't have the full season grind, can showcase his speed after a surgery, and he gets his degree.

[casualfan]

That generally only happens if it's a 4th year junior. I've never seen a third year guy honored like that on a Senior Day.

Deshaun Watson did it just a couple months ago albeit in a different sport.

You dont see it a ton in bball because its rare to have a junior that has their mind made up to leave but it does happen.

[xavierj]

IMO, Trevon is gone. He is 22 now and is only getting older, some sites have him as a late second rounder.

Ed is 80/20 that he will stay. He is studying a tough degree and still has 4th year here. He could/should graduate and play a partial season. It's a win/win for him. He won't have the full season grind, can showcase his speed after a surgery, and he gets his degree.

Trevon should stay. Europe will always be there. He will never play in the NBA. Other than a jump shot, what would he bring to any NBA team.

[XfansinKy]

If he were to be a first round pick he's got some guaranteed money, and everything will probably work out considering an NBA franchise made that investment. A second round pick means the player doesn't get the big contract, and isn't a priority to the franchise. Still, I wonder if the NBA DLeague would provide the same level of health care that a top basketball program like X or an NBA team would. I would imagine to return to be an elite athlete he can't let any ol doctor or health care provider handle his major knee problems, major shoulder surgery, and that concussion will need an occasional check up. Maybe Xavier provides him the best possible coverage for him at this stage in his life/career. I hope it works out for the best possible outcome.

[xu82]

I enjoy the certainty of people's convictions on what should and will happen, despite the polar opposite opinions. I can tell you this with 100% certainty - I have no idea what should or will happen, or what the odds are. Too much to play out at this point. I'll just have to wait and see.

[XMuskieFTW]

Trevon should stay. Europe will always be there. He will never play in the NBA. Other than a jump shot, what would he bring to any NBA team.

This is the biggest reason he shouldn't stay. If that is a certainty then why waste a year of money, plus a life of compound interest. He's good enough to make excellent money in Europe. Let's say he makes 200k next year and let's say he saves 100k of it. That's about 900k by the time he's 55. I get staying for one final run, and hope he can improve his stock, but it would be a horrible decision financially if we're assuming he will never play in the NBA.

[bleedXblue]

This is the biggest reason he shouldn't stay. If that is a certainty then why waste a year of money, plus a life of compound interest. He's good enough to make excellent money in Europe. Let's say he makes 200k next year and let's say he saves 100k of it. That's about 900k by the time he's 55. I get staying for one final run, and hope he can improve his stock, but it would be a horrible decision financially if we're assuming he will never play in the NBA.

Totally agree Maybe the only hope we have is him wanting to enjoy his last year of college and working his way up the career scoring ladder at Xavier.

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=XMuskieFTW;581128]This is the biggest reason he shouldn't stay. If that is a certainty then why waste a year of money, plus a life of compound interest. He's good enough to make excellent money in Europe. Let's say he makes 200k next year and let's say he saves 100k of it. That's about 900k by the time he's 55. I get staying for one final run, and hope he can improve his stock, but it would be a horrible decision financially if we're assuming he will never play in the

His dream his the NBA, not Europe. Not many guys ever leave early for Europe. It's kind of odd.

[AviatorX]

[QUOTE=XMuskieFTW;581128]This is the biggest reason he shouldn't stay. If that is a certainty then why waste a year of money, plus a life of compound interest. He's good enough to make excellent money in Europe. Let's say he makes 200k next year and let's say he saves 100k of it. That's about 900k by the time he's 55. I get staying for one final run, and hope he can improve his stock, but it would be a horrible decision financially if we're assuming he will never play in the

His dream his the NBA, not Europe. Not many guys ever leave early for Europe. It's kind of odd.

I agree that it is somewhat odd and it seems to be in a way becoming part of the culture at X the way some talk about how much of a no brainer it is. I mean, doesn't this thinking apply to the vast vast majority of guys who play at X? At the same time, I certainly understand the logic.

James Blackmon is probably going to make a similar move at the end of this season. Granted, the IU situation is gonna be a mess and he has injury concerned, but similar to Tre and Jalen last year it has basically been assumed he would leave after this season no matter what. Interesting that he and Tre go way back on the AAU circuit and were part of an Indiana class that wasn't exactly known as low maintenance.

[XMuskieFTW]

[QUOTE=xavierj;581147]

I agree that it is somewhat odd and it seems to be in a way becoming part of the culture at X the way some talk about how much of a no brainer it is. I mean, doesn't this thinking apply to the vast vast majority of guys who play at X? At the same time, I certainly understand the logic.

James Blackmon is probably going to make a similar move at the end of this season. Granted, the IU situation is gonna be a mess and he has injury concerned, but similar to Tre and Jalen last year it has basically been assumed he would leave after this season no matter what. Interesting that he and Tre go way back on the AAU circuit and were part of an Indiana class that wasn't exactly known as low maintenance.

I feel like the leaving for Europe early thing is somewhat of a new phenomenon. That being said, I'm shocked more guys don't do it after their Sophomore or junior years. I wouldn't be surprised if we really start to see a trend of it over the next 10 years or so.

[AviatorX]

[QUOTE=AviatorX;581148]

I feel like the leaving for Europe early thing is somewhat of a new phenomenon. That being said, I'm shocked more guys don't do it after their Sophomore or junior years. I wouldn't be surprised if we really start to see a trend of it over the next 10 years or so.

Yeah, agreed. I should have included that in my post, that we might start seeing a lot more of this nation wide especially as the NBA develops it's vision for the D-League (or should I say G League).

[xufan2434]

I have no idea how Tre feels or what his thoughts are on the situation. But my guess would be given his background with his family that staying and getting his degree might be something to keep him here if the reports do not come back positive heading into the draft. If Ed were to stay, I could see them possibly wanting another crack at it together with JP after the disappointment this year. That would be the only way I see him staying.

IMO, I think he gets taken in the 2nd round. He's proven he can score. Obviously the athleticism and everything else hurts him. But his offensive game is worth a 2nd rounder, especially for how role players are used in the league now. I think that'll be enough for him to want to leave.

[Xavier]

[QUOTE=AviatorX;581148]

I feel like the leaving for Europe early thing is somewhat of a new phenomenon. That being said, I'm shocked more guys don't do it after their Sophomore or junior years. I wouldn't be surprised if we really start to see a trend of it over the next 10 years or so.

I don't think it will become a trend. The guys who will make a lot of money right away are the borderline NBA guys (like Tre). It will be hard to convince these guys to continue to head to Europe when easiest path to the NBA is by finishing your college career. (as opposed to leaving early and going to Europe). The path to the NBA is a little more difficult if you head to Europe, IMO. Again, these are borderline guys- so some I can see understand the shot at the NBA is very small and see the value in going to Europe to start getting paid. Most will hold on the the dream still.


As for Tre- I think the best chance we have for him to stay is if He/Sumner/JP all agree they want another crack at it together.

[bleedXblue]

I have no idea how Tre feels or what his thoughts are on the situation. But my guess would be given his background with his family that staying and getting his degree might be something to keep him here if the reports do not come back positive heading into the draft. If Ed were to stay, I could see them possibly wanting another crack at it together with JP after the disappointment this year. That would be the only way I see him staying.

IMO, I think he gets taken in the 2nd round. He's proven he can score. Obviously the athleticism and everything else hurts him. But his offensive game is worth a 2nd rounder, especially for how role players are used in the league now. I think that'll be enough for him to want to leave.

All of the projections to date have him as a late 2nd round, or no pick at all.

Going to be really close