Game Thread: Xavier v. Seton Hall (February 22, 2017) Big East Conference

[Muskie]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2752.png&h=150&w=150v.http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2550.png&h=150&w=150

Xavier Musketeers vs. Seton Hall Pirates
February 22, 2017
Game Time: 7:00 ET | South Orange, NJ
TV: FS1
Radio:55KRC (https://www.iheart.com/live/55krc-1709/)
Live Stats (http://www.sidearmstats.com/setonhall/mbball/)
Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

[muskieindent]

Two teams that are struggling.Advantage to SH since it's a home game but hoping Tre is back to right the ship.I can't remember our last 4 game losing streak.Maybe when Skip was coach?

[Muskie]

Maybe we had one during the Miller years?

[XMuskieFTW]

Lost 4 straight in 12-13. UC, Wofford, at Tenn, at Wake.

[xufan2434]

I'm kind of torn going into this one whether they should have Tre play or not. On one end, you continue to rest him till the Butler game giving him the most time possible to be healthy going into March. And just get this terrible road trip over with. On the other, can this team mentally afford another ass kicking? If he doesn't play and they lose by 15+ again, at what point does it start to creep into their heads that it's more than just missing Tre?

[GoMuskies]

Can we just pick a relatively respectable score, give Seton Hall the win and save ourselves the time and cost of this road trip?

[Muskie]

I'm kind of torn going into this one whether they should have Tre play or not. On one end, you continue to rest him till the Butler game giving him the most time possible to be healthy going into March. And just get this terrible road trip over with. On the other, can this team mentally afford another ass kicking? If he doesn't play and they lose by 15+ again, at what point does it start to creep into their heads that it's more than just missing Tre? Byron said it best on the radio after the game (as I put downtown Milwaukee in my rearview), the injuries right now make the margin of error for this team razor thin.

[THRILLHOUSE]

"@FOX19Joe Chris Mack on Trevon Bluiett: "Think he'll be ready" to play tomorrow night. But, still officially a game time decision."

[casualfan]

Sounds like Tre is going to play tomorrow.

Risky move for multiple reasons but hopefully all goes well.

[xufan2434]

Sounds like Tre is going to play tomorrow.

Risky move for multiple reasons but hopefully all goes well.

They need him to play. And to be honest, it was never going to fully heal completely until after the season. At this point it's probably close to as best as it was going to get until then. If he can provide just half of what he normally brings that's a huge boost. Hopefully it rallies the rest of the guys too. Seton Hall really is not all that good. Carrington can get hot like he did against Creighton but they brick A TON of shots. If the bigs keep playing like they have been, Delgado will be slowed down and limited on the boards.

[Muskie]

Great news.

[GIMMFD]

I agree, I think we rested Tre as much as we can afford to rest him and need him back out there. I think that'll bring a huge mental edge to the guys, and they come out on fire. I think we need to get a win or two in order to just keep ourselves grounded in our thoughts. I'm just hoping that no role player on Seton Hall ends up striking fire, and we have to deal with another guy hitting a high clip from three to be honest.

[X Factor]

Honestly, I don't see a win even with Trevon. We've struggled at Seton Hall in recent years, and they're a solid team. I'll be really surprised and really happy if Xavier wins this one.

[Olsingledigit]

We only beat them by two at Cintas with Tre so what makes you think having Tre back will give us the edge? And Tre had 36 in that game.

[XMuskieFTW]

We only beat them by two at Cintas with Tre so what makes you think having Tre back will give us the edge? And Tre had 36 in that game.

Tre only had 24, and Myles Powell also shot the lights out that game.

[Masterofreality]

If Trevon Bluiett isn't ready to play at at least 90%, don't play him.
As much as we hate to say it, this game is a throwaway anyway. We are not going to finish above 4th in the league and if we win our last 3- that are the MOST important- we still are at 11-7, 21-10 with a good rating going into the BE Tourney. If Tre plays tonight and gets hurt again, we're toast. Can't risk it.

If HE in his honest mind, feels he can play comfortably, and the coaches and doctors agree, put him out there, but if it gets ugly early, pull him. Too much downside. Tre HAS to be able to be effective from Sunday afternoon at 3:30 forward...or else, you can pack up the bus. Tonight, not so much.

[gladdenguy]

One more game and one more expected loss. I'm so glad this is almost over. I can't remember the last time I KNEW Xavier was going to lose 3 consecutive games (Providence, Marquette, Seton Hall).

I agree MOR. No need to play him tonight other than maybe a tune up game for Butler. Might be good to get him some action tonight so he can be even more ready for Sunday. These last 3 games are going to be interesting/crucial/nerve-wrecking.

[X-band '01]

I wouldn't expect him to play 30+ minutes like he would when he's healthy, but you have to wonder if even 10 or 15 minutes from him would have helped against Providence. The short bench cost them that one on the road - the writing was on the wall for the beginning of the Marquette game.

[XMuskieFTW]

I fully expect him to play 30+ tonight. They wouldn't bring him back if he wasn't ready for those kind of minutes.

[bleedXblue]

Agreed. Don't see a W.

Absolute worst time for a 3 game road trip with Tre going out.

This has been the year of what could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

[GoMuskies]

Absolute worst time for a 3 game road trip with Tre going out.


Honestly, maybe it was the best time. You can survive a three game road losing streak. A three game home losing streak? Those kill your season.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I fully expect him to play 30+ tonight. They wouldn't bring him back if he wasn't ready for those kind of minutes.

Yeah I think you are right. There is no sense in him going out there if they are limiting his minutes. Barring any set back I think he will be full go. We will need him to be to win so if he isnt then just sit him anyway, we probably arent winning with 50% of Trevon.

[ammtd34]

Honestly, maybe it was the best time. You can survive a three game road losing streak. A three game home losing streak? Those kill your season.

I had thought this too, and it's why I'm assuming he's 100% now. Keeping him out of games that we may not have won anyway was a no brainer.

[GoMuskies]

I had thought this too, and it's why I'm assuming he's 100% now. Keeping him out of games that we may not have won anyway was a no brainer.

Or at least to 100% of what he's going to be the rest of the way. My guess is he's not going to be 100% until sometime in the offseason when he can get some real rest.

[Emp]

If Trevon Bluiett isn't ready to play at at least 90%, don't play him.
As much as we hate to say it, this game is a throwaway anyway. We are not going to finish above 4th in the league and if we win our last 3- that are the MOST important- we still are at 11-7, 21-10 with a good rating going into the BE Tourney. If Tre plays tonight and gets hurt again, we're toast. Can't risk it.

If HE in his honest mind, feels he can play comfortably, and the coaches and doctors agree, put him out there, but if it gets ugly early, pull him. Too much downside. Tre HAS to be able to be effective from Sunday afternoon at 3:30 forward...or else, you can pack up the bus. Tonight, not so much.

This.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Yeah, regardless of how much Tre plays, I don't see X winning. Just can't seem to get a win up there. But I think if Tre is able to play decent minutes, it will at least be a close game.

[IM4X]

If Trevon Bluiett isn't ready to play at at least 90%, don't play him.
As much as we hate to say it, this game is a throwaway anyway. We are not going to finish above 4th in the league and if we win our last 3- that are the MOST important- we still are at 11-7, 21-10 with a good rating going into the BE Tourney. If Tre plays tonight and gets hurt again, we're toast. Can't risk it.

If HE in his honest mind, feels he can play comfortably, and the coaches and doctors agree, put him out there, but if it gets ugly early, pull him. Too much downside. Tre HAS to be able to be effective from Sunday afternoon at 3:30 forward...or else, you can pack up the bus. Tonight, not so much.

Exactly. If Tre is not able to go full speed and move without limping and if he can't jump off that foot without thinking about it or if he is worried about that foot when he is taking a step back jumper, he might as well sit. If Tre goes out there and struggles and still looks hurt and we get beat with him in there, the committee might start feeling this is as good as the team will be and may think about put teams ahead of us.

It's painful to watch this team without Tre, though. Without him our 3pt shooting is abysmal. Without Tre, free throw shooting is poor and there just hasn't been anyone but Gaston who is playing a complete game as if they really "want it." Maybe JP feels there is extra pressure on him, but this has been an opportunity for him to step up and prove he is one of the best players on the team and even in the BE and he has really not stepped up to the challenge (other than a few good plays in a game).

[xufan2434]

I mean I'm pretty sure at this point they're pretty honest about the situation. I heard several times from people who know the program Saturday that he could have played had the game been live/die time. Mack isn't one to run some guy out there if they weren't all confident in how it was going to go. If they don't feel good about it then I'm all for sitting him till Sunday. But if he's ready to go, he's ready to go.

In terms of SH. For one, the last game at home was the first after Ed's injury. So yeah they only won by 2 but was a pretty big adjustment game for em so I wouldn't put a ton of stock in that one. And if you've watched them at all this year, if they're not hot from the outside they're really not good. Powell was hot the 1st game, and Carrington has been hot at times. But when they're not, they struggle mightily. Delgado can only do so much and we can run 3 bigs at him. If anyone watched the Nova game Saturday, and yes I know it's Nova, but it was not pretty. There's a reason they are where they are on the bubble

[pimpinthebox]

They're not going to let him play if he's A) truly at risk of re-injuring - of course anything can happen or B) not going to be able to actually contribute. We all know that just because Trevon plays doesn't guarantee a win, but at least that gets him back in the flow. I don't want his first time coming back be on Saturday against Butler. It will be good for him and the team's morale. And who know, you naysayers, we just might win this one.

[IM4X]

This is definitely a winnable game even without Tre. If X players can be careful not to make silly, early fouls in the beginning and if players (particularly Goodin) can understand that the backboard is their friend (like Gaston has done more recently)when shooting from close range there is a much better chance of success for our guys. Also, it'd be great to see our guys going to work on getting Delgado into foul trouble early.

[bleedXblue]

They're not going to let him play if he's A) truly at risk of re-injuring - of course anything can happen or B) not going to be able to actually contribute. We all know that just because Trevon plays doesn't guarantee a win, but at least that gets him back in the flow. I don't want his first time coming back be on Saturday against Butler. It will be good for him and the team's morale. And who know, you naysayers, we just might win this one.

Ankle sprains are tough. Just playing on it is painful and the muscle is weakened to begin with....so the risk is already higher. He wont be 100% healthy until after the season is over and he can rest it for an extended period.

[bleedXblue]

This is definitely a winnable game even without Tre. If X players can be careful not to make silly, early fouls in the beginning and if players (particularly Goodin) can understand that the backboard is their friend (like Gaston has done more recently)when shooting from close range there is a much better chance of success for our guys. Also, it'd be great to see our guys going to work on getting Delgado into foul trouble early.

IF, if and If.......

[IM4X]

IF, if and If.......

Yes...agreed... if.
But then isn't everything done in life about "Ifs."

Though I'm sure we'd all feel a little more confident about this team if that "If" was,"If this team could just keep doing what they are doing" versus, "If this team could just do these 3 key things that they have not been able to do."

[bourbonman]

This is definitely a winnable game even without Tre. If X players can be careful not to make silly, early fouls in the beginning and if ...

they can stop silly mind-blowing turn-overs. We have a habit of silly, unforced, stupid turn-overs. Some turn-overs happen, especially if you're aggressive and/or the other team simply played good defense. But stop the 5 or so unforced turn-overs, shoot 50% when you don't turn it over and pick up 4 to 6 points. JMHO.

[casualfan]

Line opene at + 3.5.

It's moved to + 4.5 most places.

[casualfan]

Tre only had 24, and Myles Powell also shot the lights out that game.

Yeah, but Carrington was 0-8 from deep which is very unlikely to happen again. He's a 38% three point shooter.

Powell shot the lights out, but as a team SH was only 27% from deep that game.

They're a 34% shooting team on the season.

[IM4X]

they can stop silly mind-blowing turn-overs. We have a habit of silly, unforced, stupid turn-overs. Some turn-overs happen, especially if you're aggressive and/or the other team simply played good defense. But stop the 5 or so unforced turn-overs, shoot 50% when you don't turn it over and pick up 4 to 6 points. JMHO.

Yes... If you watch the Villanova players during an entire game, you will see they play every second with focus and tenacity, like it is very important to do (which it is). Often our players take the approach that they don't always need to play that way... which bites them in the arse every time...costing the team 6 or more points a game. Every game I can remember, JP has been responsible for at least a few of those kind of turnovers. While he shows incredible flashes of brilliance at times and he clearly has the ability to be a special player, he'a been a net negative in some games simply because of his lack of focus/awareness at times.

[Wheelhouse]

I'll be at the game tonight which guarantees a win. You're welcome, everyone.

(no one look at my score prediction under the "Pick The Score" thread)

[paulxu]

I could use a W.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Tre officially back and in the starting lineup.

[Olsingledigit]

Yes... If you watch the Villanova players during an entire game, you will see they play every second with focus and tenacity, like it is very important to do (which it is). Often our players take the approach that they don't always need to play that way... which bites them in the arse every time...costing the team 6 or more points a game. Every game I can remember, JP has been responsible for at least a few of those kind of turnovers. While he shows incredible flashes of brilliance at times and he clearly has the ability to be a special player, he'a been a net negative in some games simply because of his lack of focus/awareness at times.
He seems at some point in every game to make two in a row usually giving up at least four points. He is one of my favorites but the TOS can be frustrating.

[Olsingledigit]

Saddle up boys and girls. Here we go!

[Olsingledigit]

Two shots no iron for Q. O-9 last nine.

[Olsingledigit]

Flop

[xavierj]

Mack has to tell his to drive right at Delgado. He has shown already he is not fouling and giving you the layup without any resistance.

[GIMMFD]

It's so heart warming seeing Tre Bae Bae back..

[BMoreX]

Jerry Carino‏@NJHoopsHaven 20m20 minutes ago

Greetings from the Rock. There are 7,000 tickets out for Seton Hall-Xavier and maybe 3,500 here at tip-off. Pathetic showing for a big game.

[kellernr]

Q with a bucket

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Olsingledigit]

Shid 1-4 from line. 7 point lead poof

[Olsingledigit]

We haven't gotten a charge call in three games.

[mistabeecee41]

this makeshift 2-3 zone is abysmal

[muskieindent]

Shid 1-4 from line. 7 point lead poof

I've given up on him making free throws

[XU 23]

How was that a travel?

[XU 87]

How was that a travel?

Wondering the same thing. He got pushed out of bounds.

[X Factor]

This is one of the worst FT shooting teams ever at Xavier. Especially in conference play.

[muskieindent]

Delgado and Rodriguez doing most of damage for SH

[bleedXblue]

Makes no sense that JP and Tre aren't around 80%. I expect big men to struggle. Not shooting guards.

[BMoreX]

Not too bad a half. Keep the toughness up down low, make some three's, make foul shots, and let's get our first W at the Prudential Center.

[X Factor]

Makes no sense that JP and Tre aren't around 80%. I expect big men to struggle. Not shooting guards.

In conference, Trevon is shooting 73% from the line and JP is shooting 75%. Not really good for players of their caliber.

[IM4X]

JP showing great consistent hustle and he is making some good decision... this is the JP we've been waiting for this year. Keep it up JP!

[bleedXblue]

JP showing great consistent hustle and he is making some good decision... this is the JP we've been waiting for this year. Keep it up JP!

what are you watching?

[X Factor]

Is this the second half blitz we've grown accustomed to seeing?

[xavierj]

Is this the second half blitz we've grown accustomed to seeing?

Have to make shots. Trevon had a great look and missed it.

[X Factor]

Delgado is eating Xavier's lunch

[muskieindent]

If SH starts hitting 3's ,we're in trouble.

[XU 87]

In conference, Trevon is shooting 73% from the line and JP is shooting 75%. Not really good for players of their caliber.

LOL. You're complaining about guys shooting 70% plus from the free throw line.

Your next positive post will be your first.

[xavierj]

These refs call freaking every touch

[bleedXblue]

we cant defend

[X Factor]

LOL. You're complaining about guys shooting 70% plus from the free throw line.

Your next positive post will be your first.

You might want to read some of my 3,000+ posts. Plenty of optimism and positivism. If you think those are great numbers from the FT line, more power to you. I think both of those guys are easily capable of shooting over 80%. It's a FREE THROW!

[muskieindent]

Donnie Marshall thinks we're a lock for the tournament. Wish I shared his optimism

[whopper]

Goodin 3rd foul is a killer. He can't contest 3s or risk an offensive. We shall see.nice box on Delgado here so he gets a foul for a change

[XU 23]

There we go. Keep going inside. Easy layups!

[muskieindent]

I think Goodin is afraid to shoot the ball

[D-West & PO-Z]

Donnie Marshall thinks we're a lock for the tournament. Wish I shared his optimism

Him and about every other major sports outlet/commentator.

[AviatorX]

Him and about every other major sports outlet/commentator.

The only people who have X squarely on the bubble are posters on this board.

[bleedXblue]

What happened to our ability to defend? Holy cow.

[BMoreX]

You can win this at the foul line. You can also lose it there.

[XU 87]

I think Goodin is afraid to shoot the ball

Agreed, but he's had some nice passes.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The only people who have X squarely on the bubble are posters on this board.

:laugh:

[X Factor]

What happened to our ability to defend? Holy cow.

This is not a good defensive team. Ranked #66 in KenPom defensive rating. That's just poor.

[Xudu]

Him and about every other major sports outlet/commentator.

They will be lucky to win 20 regular season games

Apparently you haven't been watching the team over the last 2 weeks. They are not NCAA caliber in the current state.

[xavierj]

They will be lucky to win 20 regular season games

Apparently you haven't been watching the team over the last 2 weeks. They are not NCAA caliber in the current state.

Great first post, welcome to the club. You will fit right in.

[muskieindent]

They will be lucky to win 20 regular season games

Apparently you haven't been watching the team over the last 2 weeks. They are not NCAA caliber in the current state.
20 is probably the magic number. Can we get there ?

[bleedXblue]

20 is probably the magic number. Can we get there ?

negative, IMHO

[Xudu]

Great first post, welcome to the club. You will fit right in.

Over the last 30 years, I've never see an X team this underwhelming. When JP Macura is a key to your offense, you're doomed. Have you see this guy try and create space and make plays, it's embarrassing.

God. These shots are just hilariously poor

[xavierj]

These refs are just bad.

[bleedXblue]

Over the last 30 years, I've never see an X team this underwhelming. When JP Macura is a key to your offense, you're doomed. Have you see this guy try and create space and make plays, it's embarrassing.

God. These shots are just hilariously poor

get a life troll

[xukeith]

not looking good down 7 with 4 minutes

[Xudu]

These refs are just bad.

No. Xavier on offense is just bad. One player can create a shot. Zero inside presence. Zero defense.

NIT 2017. From pre season top 10 to playing Troy in the baby dance.

Wasted season.

[muskieindent]

This one's over .

[Xville]

We actually have to win probably two more games to be locks. Anyone confident that will happen? I'm sorry but if you say you are, you are lying to yourself. This team isn't good whether you want to accept that is your priority.

[AviatorX]

That was poor from Mack. The offense was begging for a timeout, especially when they are so good on sets out of one. Waited way too long.

[bleedXblue]

Holy crap Mack....does the team run actual offensive plays?

I know we've had some injuries and bad luck, but he's not doing his best coaching tonight
.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No. Xavier on offense is just bad. One player can create a shot. Zero inside presence. Zero defense.

NIT 2017. From pre season top 10 to playing Troy in the baby dance.

Wasted season.

:lol:

[X Factor]

Another double digit loss. Houston, we have a problem.

[Xudu]

We actually have to win probably two more games to be locks. Anyone confident that will happen? I'm sorry but if you say you are, you are lying to yourself. This team isn't good whether you want to accept that is your priority.

They don't do one thing well. Even with Summer, they were vastly over rated from the get go. They can't have a team with zero legit inside players.

[Newswired]

This team is pitiful. No discipline. How exactly does that happen?

[mistabeecee41]

huge road game, down the stretch, and here is what we do on offense.


JP jacks up insane shot with 20 left on shot clock
Tyrique holds the ball for 10 seconds and tries an insane up and under
Malcolm bernard cant catch a basketball
Tre step back fadeaway from 3
Kaiser posts somebody up for the first time in 2 years

[bleedXblue]

No. Xavier on offense is just bad. One player can create a shot. Zero inside presence. Zero defense.

NIT 2017. From pre season top 10 to playing Troy in the baby dance.

Wasted season.

Isn't it past your bedtime Johnny?

[IM4X]

JP - very good first half- disappears in second.
Mack- waiting too long to rally the troops and get them to stop making bad decisions.

[X Factor]

When is the last time Xavier lost 4 straight games all by 10 or more points?

[AviatorX]

I'm not sure why some here think you can make blanket statements about how many wins a team needs to be in -- selection and seeding doesn't happen in a bubble, it is heavily dependent on what other teams do, and if you actually look at the bubble, doesn't really seem like anyone is stepping up to snatch X's bid.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We actually have to win probably two more games to be locks. Anyone confident that will happen? I'm sorry but if you say you are, you are lying to yourself. This team isn't good whether you want to accept that is your priority.

Almost every single post of yours is in game threads and those of them where we are losing or lost.

Your first post tonight, and first since Marquette thread which was the first since providence thread.

[vee4xu]

All right, let's address the 800 pound gorilla in the room. X is not a very talented team. They have struggled on the road all year, with and without Sumner. They have some pretty good players, but generally, we are not very good. Specifically, all season the team has turned the ball over way too much, they miss fouls shots at an alarming pace, they have given up tons of second half points to all sorts of teams. That's it, you get the point. Just not very talented.

[Xudu]

Isn't it past your bedtime Johnny?


I had season tix at the Gardens watching Walker, Jones and Hill, Posey and Williams and Frey. lumpkin Brown and braggs*.

Sorry you can't accept the reality. They suck

[bleedXblue]

All right, let's address the 800 pound gorilla in the room. X is not a very talented team. They have struggled on the road all year, with and without Sumner. They have some pretty good players, but generally, we are not very good. Specifically, all season the team has turned the ball over way too much, they miss fouls shots at an alarming pace, they have given up tons of second half points to all sorts of teams. That's it, you get the point. Just not very talented.

LOFT...yes

[xukeith]

I love X but X SUCKS this year.
Sad but maybe next year OR a miraculous team recovery over next 2 weeks.

Can X possibly beat Butler or Marquette at home?
It looks very slim.
Hope so.
Worst team or most overrated? I know there were things that happened (lose MD, lose Sumner)

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm not sure why some here think you can make blanket statements about how many wins a team needs to be in -- selection and seeding doesn't happen in a bubble, it is heavily dependent on what other teams do, and if you actually look at the bubble, doesn't really seem like anyone is stepping up to snatch X's bid.

exactly.

This stretch sucks there are serious concerns about this team but them making the tourney to me isnt one of them.

[sirthought]

I'm accepting that some guys are taking on new roles, but the lack of discipline to even create a play seems to be on the coaching. Where is the preparation from trip to trip that we see in the out-of-bounds plays?

Come on Mack, give your guys a chance. So many wasted possessions.

[Xville]

Almost every single post of yours is in game threads and those of them where we are losing or lost.

Your first post tonight, and first since Marquette thread which was the first since providence thread.

Well hello stalker. This may come as a shock to you but I actually do have a life outside of xavier.

It's OK we all deal with how disappointing this team is in different ways...you do it by calling out other posters as of it is their fault the team isn't performing.

[Xudu]

exactly.

This stretch sucks there are serious concerns about this team but them making the tourney to me isnt one of them.

Youre gonna be so sad in 3 sundays

[IM4X]

We may not be on the bubble... but now with Trevon is back- we are looking at pretty much the team
we will have moving forward... if we can't beat Seton Hall now... it doesn't look that promising for X to advance even if we do get in the tournament.

[X Factor]

When two of your starters for the majority of the year played their last college ball at two of the worst DI programs in the entire country, that is a problem at a program like Xavier. I appreciate the hard work Gaston and Bernard have put in, but they do not belong at a program like Xavier.

[AviatorX]

I love X but X SUCKS this year.
Sad but maybe next year OR a miraculous team recovery over next 2 weeks.

Can X possibly beat Butler or Marquette at home?
It looks very slim.
Hope so.
Worst team or most overrated? I know there were things that happened (lose MD, lose Sumner)

How many teams do you think you can name better than Xavier this season?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well hello stalker. This may come as a shock to you but I actually do have a life outside of xavier.

It's OK we all deal with how disappointing this team is in different ways...you do it by calling out other posters as of it is their fault the team isn't performing.

mmmmmmkkkkkkk

[xavierj]

I had season tix at the Gardens watching Walker, Jones and Hill, Posey and Williams and Frey. lumpkin Brown and braggs*.

Sorry you can't accept the reality. They suck

There we go... I was watching at the gardens to gain credibility. Which Jones?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Youre gonna be so sad in 3 sundays

I dont think so, but we'll see.

I just think its hilarious that the only people worried about X making the tourney are Xavier fans. Not anyone who covers this sport for a living and makes a living predicting who gets in. But I think I'll side with XUDU.

[X Factor]

How many teams do you think you can name better than Xavier this season?

Well after tonight, Xavier will be in the 40's in KenPom ratings, but honestly right now, Xavier is probably a borderline Top 75 team.

[beatuc]

At this point it's a mental game. They play great when things are going great but can't stop the bleeding when things are going bad. They have given more 9+ plus runs without scoring this year then any team I can't remember in the past.

[Xville]

mmmmmmkkkkkkk

Good retort. I'm sure you are confident we are going to win a few more games. Other people take a look at what this team has done for the past two weeks and have trouble seeing it. It's not hard to comprehend, but you just keep hammering other posters because they have an opinion different than yours. I guess it makes you feel better.

[AviatorX]

Well after tonight, Xavier will be in the 40's in KenPom ratings, but honestly right now, Xavier is probably a borderline Top 75 team.

Lol.

[bleedXblue]

When two of your starters for the majority of the year played their last college ball at two of the worst DI programs in the entire country, that is a problem at a program like Xavier. I appreciate the hard work Gaston and Bernard have put in, but they do not belong at a program like Xavier.

Mack better hope his class next year is as good as it is touted. This program needs some talent in a big, big way

[Muskie]

Last warning on the personal attacks (back and forth) amongst posters. If your post doesn't add anything constructive to the thread. Don't post it.

[vee4xu]

X is not good on the road. Plain and simple. Nothing going on now makes me think someone will sprinkle holy water on them and they suddenly win the BE tourney in NYC. I am starting to get a bit troubled by all of it at this point. X is playing with two low-DI players in Bernard and Gaston, and another post player who hasn't progressed in three years. Give JP his due for being a hard playing, give-it-your-all kind of player, but he isn't a game changer and his defense is sometimes suspect. Once you get beyond Tre and Ed, it's falls off pretty fast. Also, despite rebounding well, they're transition offense isn't good. I attribute that to an overall lack of team speed. Did the injuries and loss of Myles hurt? Absolutely. However, the supporting cast is not deep and not very talented. Just one of those years.

[Masterofreality]

Face it. This team sucks right now...and it's not getting better. I said after the Colorado game that it wasn't Top 25 and nothing has improved - and then we lost Ed. Q is not giving the team what it needs. He had a weak small defender on him and only once took him to the rack. Byron Larkin said numerous times that Q deferred too much when he should have looked to score. He then put his teammates in bad positions. Malcolm Bernard is a ghost out there and Kaiser Gates doesn't seem to want to score. JP is half savant, half knucklehead.
There is nothing that encourages me right now. I thought that we'd lose this game going in, but we had a halftime lead and faded....again. With 3 minutes to go we had scored 53 points.

Unless we can win at least 2 of the next 3, we don't deserve the Dance. It's a quagmire.

[AviatorX]

Good retort. I'm sure you are confident we are going to win a few more games. Other people take a look at what this team has done for the past two weeks and have trouble seeing it. It's not hard to comprehend, but you just keep hammering other posters because they have an opinion different than yours. I guess it makes you feel better.

I don't think it's crazy to think X has a decent chance to win out considering how they've played at home (yes, even without Ed). Butler has lost road games to Indiana State and St. John's and Marquette has only won two road games (one against DePaul and one in Creighton's first Watson-less game). DePaul is DePaul.

The stretch run tonight was damn frustrating (and I posted that I thought Mack slipped up going a few too many possessions w/o a TO), but the entire first page of this thread is about how X is guaranteed to lose tonight, and then when it happens, the usual suspects go over the top freaking out. I don't get it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Good retort. I'm sure you are confident we are going to win a few more games. Other people take a look at what this team has done for the past two weeks and have trouble seeing it. It's not hard to comprehend, but you just keep hammering other posters because they have an opinion different than yours. I guess it makes you feel better.

I think they get in with one more win. Absoulute lock in the 7-9 range with 2 more wins. So no I am not worried.

[sgarcia]

We need guys who can drive AND finish. Q can drive and dish but can't finish. JP and Tre have a few moves but can't consistently get to the basket. Thankfully Tre has an excellent mid range game. Gates and Bernard mainly are spot up shooters. This is who we are for the rest of the year. Hopefully a couple of the guys coming in are slashers and can get to the rim but that doesn't help us now. I still think X wins their last 3 and we are currently nowhere near any bubble.

[whopper]

No one said it would be easy. Bluiett looked about 80% and man does Goodin need help. Once he had the 3rd foul he could not really play. The centers combined for 16 points so Delgado dominated but statistically not as bad as it looked. I think they can win 2 more but that is probably about it.

[bleedXblue]

X is not good on the road. Plain and simple. Nothing going on now makes me think someone will sprinkle holy water on them and they suddenly win the BE tourney in NYC. I am starting to get a bit troubled by all of it at this point. X is playing with two low-DI players in Bernard and Gaston, and another post player who hasn't progressed in three years. Give JP his due for being a hard playing, give-it-your-all kind of player, but he isn't a game changer and his defense is sometimes suspect. Once you get beyond Tre and Ed, it's falls off pretty fast. Also, despite rebounding well, they're transition offense isn't good. I attribute that to an overall lack of team speed. Did the injuries and loss of Myles hurt? Absolutely. However, the supporting cast is not deep and not very talented. Just one of those years.

Yes to all of this.

[xu82]

Mack better hope his class next year is as good as it is touted. This program needs some talent in a big, big way

I don't see it that way at all. I'm very encouraged. It's coming in waves, so there may be a learning curve, but why the pessimism? Hell, we lost 2 starters (one a probable future NBA player) and the second best guy is hobbled. Best class ever coming in? I'm felling great about this. Wow.

[xavierj]

Face it. This team sucks right now...and it's not getting better. I said after the Colorado game that it wasn't Top 25 and nothing has improved - and then we lost Ed. Q is not giving the team what it needs. He had a weak small defender on him and only once took him to the rack. Byron Larkin said numerous times that Q deferred too much when he should have looked to score. He then put his teammates in bad positions. Malcolm Bernard is a ghost out there and Kaiser Gates doesn't seem to want to score. JP is half savant, half knucklehead.
There is nothing that encourages me right now. I thought that we'd lose this game going in, but we had a halftime lead and faded....again. With 3 minutes to go we had scored 53 points.

Unless we can win at least 2 of the next 3, we don't deserve the Dance. It's a quagmire.

I wouldn't say Q put them in bad spots. He did have 8 assists and only 2 turnovers and could have had more assists if guys knocked down wide open looks or didn't miss layups. Bottom line, Q can handle the ball and find guys, but he needs to score. He has zero confidence in putting the ball in the basket. On a positive, his defense on Carrington was solid tonight. Get home and get healthy. Xavier was overrated this year and right now are missing 53 points and 26 rebounds from last year.

[AviatorX]

I think they get in with one more win. Absoulute lock in the 7-9 range with 2 more wins. So no I am not worried.

Shannon just tweeted that Joe Lunardi said "Xavier can't play its way out of an at-large bid."

Not even sure I'd go that far, but if that doesn't do it for you, I don't know what will.

[vee4xu]

I don't see it that way at all. I'm very encouraged. It's coming in waves, so there may be a learning curve, but why the pessimism? Hell, we lost 2 starters (one a probable future NBA player) and the second best guy is hobbled. Best class ever coming in? I'm felling great about this. Wow.

Love your optimism. At this point, we need some light in this very dark room.

[kellernr]

Bernard and Gaston: 5pts 3 rebounds and 8 fouls. Way to contribute.

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[muethibp]

I don't see it that way at all. I'm very encouraged. It's coming in waves, so there may be a learning curve, but why the pessimism? Hell, we lost 2 starters (one a probable future NBA player) and the second best guy is hobbled. Best class ever coming in? I'm felling great about this. Wow.

"Why the pessimism?" Amazing. That was as talent-less a Xavier team out there as I ever recall seeing. And you don't understand why it makes people pessimistic!?

[paulxu]

We lost by 7. Those 7 pts were at the line.
That and 12 TO's cost us.
Shot a respectable 46% overall, but a crappy 27% from 3. Make a couple of those, stop sloppy TO's and it's a game.

These are correctable. I'm not giving up yet.

[AviatorX]

"Why the pessimism?" Amazing. That was as talent-less a Xavier team out there as I ever recall seeing. And you don't understand why it makes people pessimistic!?

Did you miss the 2012-13 and 13-14 seasons?

[SkyWalker]

Bernard and Gaston: 5pts 3 rebounds and 8 fouls. Way to contribute.

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I think this was the big issue tonight. The rest wasn't great but not really that bad. Need more from 5th year seniors even though they are transfers.

[muethibp]

Shannon just tweeted that Joe Lunardi said "Xavier can't play its way out of an at-large bid."

Not even sure I'd go that far, but if that doesn't do it for you, I don't know what will.

When you look at the teams that are on the current bubble, I think that's exactly right.

But I'll ask you this: who really cares? They'll lose to any tournament team right now. Making it and immediately going out is just not that important to me.

[X Factor]

Did you miss the 2012-13 and 13-14 seasons?

Sorry I can't get used to this.

[AviatorX]

When you look at the teams that are on the current bubble, I think that's exactly right.

But I'll ask you this: who really cares? They'll lose to any tournament team right now. Making it and immediately going out is just not that important to me.

I definitely care if Xavier makes the tournament. Fair enough if you don't, I guess.

[X Factor]

Bernard and Gaston: 5pts 3 rebounds and 8 fouls. Way to contribute.

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Norfolk State and Florida A&M. Those are the last programs they played for. Easily two of the worst programs in DI. They've been starters the majority of the year for Xavier. That's a problem for a program of Xavier's level.

[muskieindent]

Shannon just tweeted that Joe Lunardi said "Xavier can't play its way out of an at-large bid."

Not even sure I'd go that far, but if that doesn't do it for you, I don't know what will.

That's hard to believe. I think 20 wins gets us in but that isn't a given that we get there.I wonder if this team believes in themselves anymore

[muethibp]

Did you miss the 2012-13 and 13-14 seasons?

No.

If those teams were playing one another, Semaj Christon would be by far the best player on the court. And it wouldn't be close.

[bleedXblue]

I don't see it that way at all. I'm very encouraged. It's coming in waves, so there may be a learning curve, but why the pessimism? Hell, we lost 2 starters (one a probable future NBA player) and the second best guy is hobbled. Best class ever coming in? I'm felling great about this. Wow.

You cant be serious?

I guess we all have different levels of expectation, so I will take that into consideration.

The team I'm watching now is one of the most unathletic I've seen at X in a long time. We struggle to defend. We struggle to finish at the rim. We struggle to make FT's. We struggle shooting 3's. Add to that, the likelihood that we'll be without Blueitt.......and Ed will be coming back from 2 major surgeries.......we hope.

Yes, we need an infusion of talent. I don't see how you can view it any other way.

[Masterofreality]

Chris Mack sounds burned out on the post game show. He seems to be out of answers.
Not a good prospect at season's end.

[Xville]

Shannon just tweeted that Joe Lunardi said "Xavier can't play its way out of an at-large bid."

Not even sure I'd go that far, but if that doesn't do it for you, I don't know what will.

So if that's the case. Lunardi thinks hypothetically that x could be 18-14 and still get in? I'm sorry but that's freaking ridiculous.

[Masterofreality]

I wouldn't say Q put them in bad spots. He did have 8 assists and only 2 turnovers and could have had more assists if guys knocked down wide open looks or didn't miss layups. Bottom line, Q can handle the ball and find guys, but he needs to score. He has zero confidence in putting the ball in the basket. On a positive, his defense on Carrington was solid tonight. Get home and get healthy. Xavier was overrated this year and right now are missing 53 points and 26 rebounds from last year.

As to the first sentence-You obviously did not listen to Byron Larkin....or watch the whole court.

[bleedXblue]

Chris Mack sounds burned out on the post game show. He seems to be out of answers.
Not a good prospect at season's end.

If he didn't have answers during the game, he certainly cant have them afterwards.

Mack is struggling to get this team together.........

[muskieindent]

I definitely care if Xavier makes the tournament. Fair enough if you don't, I guess.

Agree. Even if we're one and done, you need to get in or the season is a failure. It's been a challenging year. Let's at least accomplish something

[xavierj]

As to the first sentence-You obviously did not listen to Byron Larkin....or watch the whole court.

Didn't listen, just watched the game. He is always looking to pass and never to score. Hopefully the light kicks on for him so he can be a complete player.

[vee4xu]

Chris Mack sounds burned out on the post game show. He seems to be out of answers.
Not a good prospect at season's end.

He sounded burned out after last game, too. Personally, I was too burned out myself to even listen to the postgame tonight.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Shannon just tweeted that Joe Lunardi said "Xavier can't play its way out of an at-large bid."

Not even sure I'd go that far, but if that doesn't do it for you, I don't know what will.

Interesting, thanks for posting. Joe obviously hasnt consulted XU fans.

That being said I am not sure I 100% believe that because if we win 0 more games I dont think we'd make it but I think with one more win we are in and 2 more forget it. I also think it is a lot more likely we get 3 more wins (including BE tourney) than 0 more wins which is also why I am not that worried about making the tourney.

Now winning any games in the tourney yeah that worries me but lets get in and see the matchup and go from there.

[kellernr]

Norfolk State and Florida A&M. Those are the last programs they played for. Easily two of the worst programs in DI. They've been starters the majority of the year for Xavier. That's a problem for a program of Xavier's level.
I've disliked those 2 all year. You would think Gaston would be a lot better out there since he was spent last year with the team during his transfer year. Bernard was supposed to be a lock down defender but I always see his guy getting free for a wide open shot.

The only guys on this team willing to shoot are Tre and JP. Everyone else looks terrified to shoot it.

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[bleedXblue]

As to the first sentence-You obviously did not listen to Byron Larkin....or watch the whole court.

I think Q is almost too deliberate at times. But lets be clear.......this team has much bigger issues than a freshman PG struggling to find his shot and place.

[D-West & PO-Z]

When you look at the teams that are on the current bubble, I think that's exactly right.

But I'll ask you this: who really cares? They'll lose to any tournament team right now. Making it and immediately going out is just not that important to me.

I think making it given all they have faced this year is pretty awesome. I also think making the tournament is important for programs when recruiting regardless if they lose right away this year. To say we have made it this many times in a row or this many times is this many years is important.

[xavierj]

Agree. Even if we're one and done, you need to get in or the season is a failure. It's been a challenging year. Let's at least accomplish something

Last year Iowa finished the season losing 5 of 6, 6 of 8 and lost the first round of big 10 tourney to a bad Illinois team. They got a 7 seed and won a game. Xavier just needs a win again to gain confidence and they will be ok. They look flat wore out and defeated right now.

[vee4xu]

I think Q is almost too deliberate at times. But lets be clear.......this team has mush bogger issues than a freshman PG struggling to find his shot and place.

Absolutely, indeed!

[AviatorX]

Over the last few weeks I've finally made the complete leap of abandoning my preseason expectations I had for this team. Obviously that was warranted not only because of the injuries but also the overall play of the team through the first 20ish games. A part of that process for me was to stop comparing this group to last year and instead track them against the 14-15 team. That year is probably looked at fondly by most on here, but that team was equally if not more frustrating than Team 95.

At this point two years ago, X appeared to finally have it together in wins over Butler and UC, before dropping a maddening game they had a million chances to win @St. John's (who ended up a 9 seed, probably similar to SHU this year) then getting drubbed at home by Nova. That team was wayyyyy more on the bubble and almost lost a game to a terrible Creighton team that most felt was a must-win to get in. They also had losses to UTEP, Long Beach State, Auburn, and DePaul.

The 14-15 squad looked just as bad, honestly probably worse, at similar points in the year. If that team ended up as successful as they did, I'm not ready to jump off the cliff with this group yet.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Norfolk State and Florida A&M. Those are the last programs they played for. Easily two of the worst programs in DI. They've been starters the majority of the year for Xavier. That's a problem for a program of Xavier's level.

You realize that was not the plan right? Especially with Bernard.

Tons of shit has happened to make that a reality now, they were supposed to be role players. Shit happens but it isnt like Chris planned it that way and its blown up in his face.

[muskieindent]

So if that's the case. Lunardi thinks hypothetically that x could be 18-14 and still get in? I'm sorry but that's freaking ridiculous.

Maybe Mack has compromising pictures of someone on the selection committee

[xu82]

I definitely care if Xavier makes the tournament. Fair enough if you don't, I guess.

I wouldn't want him on my team though.

[Xville]

It'd be nice for this team to go ahead and best Butler this weekend to put a lot of this angst to rest. Good night folks

[D-West & PO-Z]

Last year Iowa finished the season losing 5 of 6, 6 of 8 and lost the first round of big 10 tourney to a bad Illinois team. They got a 7 seed and won a game. Xavier just needs a win again to gain confidence and they will be ok. They look flat wore out and defeated right now.

Yeah good points.

[AviatorX]

No.

If those teams were playing one another, Semaj Christon would be by far the best player on the court. And it wouldn't be close.

I'd take this team any day over either of those teams. Not sure that's even arguable.

I would rather watch Q miss 800 more layups than suffer through watching the Philmore/Stainbrook front court get blown up in ball screen defense. The first four team was also relying on Justin Martin to stretch the floor. No thanks, I'll take Trevon and JP please.

[vee4xu]

Any talk of whether this team is either in or out of the NCAA tourney this year fails to focus on the issue at hand. They've lost four straight games and haven't look good doing so. Before I am ready to sit down and chart out this team's chances of making the NCAA tourney, I'm trying to figure out how they win at least 2 of next three games. Thankfully, two are at home and one is on the road against the worst team in the league. Because, if they don't win 2 of 3 (with DePaul being a must for one of those wins), then making the tourney is more for recruitment than actually thinking that X could do anything meaningful in it.

[xu82]

You cant be serious?

I guess we all have different levels of expectation, so I will take that into consideration.

The team I'm watching now is one of the most unathletic I've seen at X in a long time. We struggle to defend. We struggle to finish at the rim. We struggle to make FT's. We struggle shooting 3's. Add to that, the likelihood that we'll be without Blueitt.......and Ed will be coming back from 2 major surgeries.......we hope.

Yes, we need an infusion of talent. I don't see how you can view it any other way.

I am deadly serious, but I'm not short sighted. That helps.

Oooh, our NBA player may get off to a slow start. Really? We need an infusion of talent? Well guess what? Best ever on the way!

[vee4xu]

You realize that was not the plan right? Especially with Bernard.

Tons of shit has happened to make that a reality now, they were supposed to be role players. Shit happens but it isnt like Chris planned it that way and its blown up in his face.

Good points. Davis was supposed to start in stead of Bernard and O'Mara was supposed to start ahead of Gaston. Myles was a knucklehead and O'Mara never left AAU, leaving Mack with not other choice.

[bleedXblue]

You realize that was not the plan right? Especially with Bernard.

Tons of shit has happened to make that a reality now, they were supposed to be role players. Shit happens but it isnt like Chris planned it that way and its blown up in his face.

Yes with the Myles situation, but Bernard has pretty much started all year and is giving very, very little right now......or for that matter the last 4-5 games.

[muskieindent]

I think Q is almost too deliberate at times. But lets be clear.......this team has much bigger issues than a freshman PG struggling to find his shot and place.

We miss Sumner so much it isn't funny. That's not a,knock on Goodin but it's just a big drop off. Easily 10 to 15 points a game we lost .Goodin seems afraid to shoot the ball which considering his struggles is understandable.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yes with the Myles situation, but Bernard has pretty much started all year and is giving very, very little right now......or for that matter the last 4-5 games.

Yeah but the point remains he was brought in to be a role player off the bench and instead forced to start with Myles gone and play even more time with Ed and Trevon hurt as well.

[xu82]

Yeah but the point remains he was brought in to be a role player off the bench and instead forced to start with Myles gone and play even more time with Ed and Trevon hurt as well.

How is this not obvious to all?

[kellernr]

Yes with the Myles situation, but Bernard has pretty much started all year and is giving very, very little right now......or for that matter the last 4-5 games.
Gaston was going to start over omara regardless. Why else would you waste 2 years of a scholarship on a guy with 1 year of eligibility? Sean was never going to be the starter at any point

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[THRILLHOUSE]

Good points. Davis was supposed to start in stead of Bernard and O'Mara was supposed to start ahead of Gaston. Myles was a knucklehead and O'Mara never left AAU, leaving Mack with not other choice.

Mack would never have even reached out to Bernard to offer a scholarship if Myles hadn't gone on the cell phone smashing spree over the summer.

[X Factor]

Yeah but the point remains he was brought in to be a role player off the bench and instead forced to start with Myles gone and play even more time with Ed and Trevon hurt as well.

I would argue Xavier is at a level where they shouldn't have to reach so far down the DI ranks to find a 5th year senior for anything.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Gaston was going to start over omara regardless. Why else would you waste 2 years of a scholarship on a guy with 1 year of eligibility? Sean was never going to be the starter at any point

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Gaston doesnt even start now.

I think he was always expected to have to contribute more than Bernard was but even Gaston has had to take on a bigger role now than originally thought.

[vee4xu]

Gaston was going to start over omara regardless. Why else would you waste 2 years of a scholarship on a guy with 1 year of eligibility? Sean was never going to be the starter at any point

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I recall O'Mara starting the first hand full of games. When he was getting his butt kicked, Mack decided to start Gaston instead. O'Mara's had a few good games, but way too many with more fouls than points and rebounds combined. He wasn't ready for prime time, so Mack had to go the plan be. Namely, Gaston.

[AviatorX]

Gaston was going to start over omara regardless. Why else would you waste 2 years of a scholarship on a guy with 1 year of eligibility? Sean was never going to be the starter at any point

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Except for when he was the starter at the beginning of the year.

Mack never has all 13 filled. I doubt they were worried about holding a scholarship 2 years for Gaston.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Mack would never have even reached out to Bernard to offer a scholarship if Myles hadn't gone on the cell phone smashing spree over the summer.

I'm not privy to the timeline of it all but even if true Mack did what he had to do to get someone to fill a spot that should have been occupied by one of our best players. Not ideal and not planned by Mack.

[vee4xu]

Mack would never have even reached out to Bernard to offer a scholarship if Myles hadn't gone on the cell phone smashing spree over the summer.

Fair point. But, the end game was still Davis returning and playing at some point, which never happened, leaving Bernard out there all year. Which, I contend wasn't Mack's plan when he did as you suggested and reached out to Bernard in the first place What was intended to be a temporary move, turned out permanent.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I would argue Xavier is at a level where they shouldn't have to reach so far down the DI ranks to find a 5th year senior for anything.

Maybe but those are the 5th year seniors who leave their programs looking to jump up. Guys arent leaving the high DI teams to go to another team it is the low DI guys looking to get a year with the big boys after 4 in the smaller conferences.

[xu82]

I'm not privy to the timeline of it all but even if true Mack did what he had to do to get someone to fill a spot that should have been occupied by one of our best players. Not ideal and not planned by Mack.

Blaming Mack for losing his best players, through no fault of his own, is just silly. Big picture, people.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm not privy to the timeline of it all but even if true Mack did what he had to do to get someone to fill a spot that should have been occupied by one of our best players. Not ideal and not planned by Mack.

This article goes into some detail about Bernard coming to X and the timeline of it.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2017/01/21/bernards-xavier-success-goes-so-much-further-than-basketball/96898890/

[THRILLHOUSE]

Fair point. But, the end game was still Davis returning and playing at some point, which never happened, leaving Bernard out there all year. Which, I contend wasn't Mack's plan when he did as you suggested and reached out to Bernard in the first place What was intended to be a temporary move, turned out permanent.

Oh yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just the other knuckleheads who don't realize why Mack had to add Bernard to the team. Not really many other options out there at that point. Thanks Myles!

[markchal]

I think making it given all they have faced this year is pretty awesome. I also think making the tournament is important for programs when recruiting regardless if they lose right away this year. To say we have made it this many times in a row or this many times is this many years is important.

I agree that making it is very important, but strongly agree with the awesome part. What exactly did we overcome? We almost won at Butler and UC but ultimately did very little outside of the Creighton win after the Myles/Ed issues. We kind of limped to the finish, it's not like this team really came together through adversity. If we get in, it's because of what we didn't before.

[X Factor]

Maybe but those are the 5th year seniors who leave their programs looking to jump up. Guys arent leaving the high DI teams to go to another team it is the low DI guys looking to get a year with the big boys after 4 in the smaller conferences.

I know those guys have aspirations at playing at a higher level in college, and obviously, I don't follow any other teams like I do Xavier. However, I doubt any other Top 25 caliber programs or teams with Final Four goals are taking guys from the likes of Norfolk St. (kenpom 297) and Florida A&M (kenpom 344).

[markchal]

I'm encouraged by what we have coming in but really hope Ed or tre come back. We just won't have enough returning talent to really be special and I am worried about the front court if Jones is ineligible and tre leaves. Plenty of time for this kind of talk though.

[xu82]

I agree that making it is very important, but strongly agree with the awesome part. What exactly did we overcome? We almost won at Butler and UC but ultimately did very little outside of the Creighton win after the Myles/Ed issues. We kind of limped to the finish, it's not like this team really came together through adversity. If we get in, it's because of what we didn't before.

Did you notice the limp was literal and not figurative? Pay attention, people!

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think I saw one play run tonight. The rest of the time I saw wild shots, bad passing and bone headed plays. This team has very low basketball IQ . Mack hasn't done a great job with this team. I just don't see more than one more win rest of season. They will beat Marquette I think but will lose to Depuke and Futler. JP is out of control, Gates does nothing but stands on the perimeter and shoots a set shot. I thought Sean O busted his butt tonight. The Bernard experiment is over. I'm just ranting but I don't see a well coached team. Arrrrgh this sucks!!!!:spaz:

[kellernr]

Except for when he was the starter at the beginning of the year.

Mack never has all 13 filled. I doubt they were worried about holding a scholarship 2 years for Gaston.
That's macks problem. Why let scholarships go to waste? This year has to be a wake up call for him with all the injuries and myles. Absolutely no depth except for center and those 3 guys might combine to match the opposing teams starting center. Omara is what he is. Gaston has shown flashes but not very often. Jones should be a lot better next year.

But they might all be filled next year if ed and tre stay. I haven't seen blueitt projected as a first rounder in any of the mock drafts and Sumner has fallen since the injury.

Having a back court of Sumner, goodin and Scruggs would be very nice. Then you have blueitt, JP, the Jones, Marshall, harden,ridder and earnst. That would put us 1 over but you got to figure someone will transfer or be ineligble. I'm thinking Jones will be ineligble and that why we signed earnst late. Why else would you transfer twice your senior year?

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[X Factor]

Did you notice the limp was literal and not figurative? Pay attention, people!

No, this team is limping big time right now.

[vee4xu]

Oh well, 5:30 a.m. comes around fast, so I'm done. Peace!

[X Factor]

This team has very low basketball IQ .

I've said this a few times. They just don't play smart basketball.

[AviatorX]

That's macks problem. Why let scholarships go to waste? This year has to be a wake up call for him with all the injuries and myles. Absolutely no depth except for center and those 3 guys might combine to match the opposing teams starting center. Omara is what he is. Gaston has shown flashes but not very often. Jones should be a lot better next year.

But they might all be filled next year if ed and tre stay. I haven't seen blueitt projected as a first rounder in any of the mock drafts and Sumner has fallen since the injury.

Having a back court of Sumner, goodin and Scruggs would be very nice. Then you have blueitt, JP, the Jones, Marshall, harden,ridder and earnst. That would put us 1 over but you got to figure someone will transfer or be ineligble. I'm thinking Jones will be ineligble and that why we signed earnst late. Why else would you transfer twice your senior year?

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You're presuming that the 12th and 13th guys will be able to step up and contribute. Do you think top 100 guys want to come be the 13th man for X? Why do you think LAJ and Makinde transferred?

A lot of coaches don't like to have all 13 filled. One of them is Jay Wright (look at Nova's roster). I hear he's pretty solid.

Someone who LOVES having all 13 filled is Tom Crean. And he is constantly critiqued for running guys off, huge recruiting reaches, and erratic substitution patterns.

When you suffer the attrition X has over the course of the year, you're never going to have as good of a season as you hoped. That's just reality.

[xu82]

I think I saw one play run tonight. The rest of the time I saw wild shots, bad passing and bone headed plays. This team has very low basketball IQ . Mack hasn't done a great job with this team. I just don't see more than one more win rest of season. They will beat Marquette I think but will lose to Depuke and Futler. JP is out of control, Gates does nothing but stands on the perimeter and shoots a set shot. I thought Sean O busted his butt tonight. The Bernard experiment is over. I'm just ranting but I don't see a well coached team. Arrrrgh this sucks!!!!:spaz:

This team has a freshman PG and a guy who was NEVER meant to to be a PG as his backup. That just might matter. I'm not worried about the future. What sensible person would look down the road and not be encouraged?

[xu82]

No, this team is limping big time right now.

Well, maybe we weren't deep enough to have Ed on crutches and Tre in a boot. They miss Myles. It's a perfect storm, and it still looks like we make the tournament. I'll take that and pray the next class is as good as expected.

[X Factor]

Well, maybe we weren't deep enough to have Ed on crutches and Tre in a boot. They miss Myles. It's a perfect storm, and it still looks like we make the tournament. I'll take that and pray the next class is as good as expected.

Fair enough. I hope next year's class is as good as expected too.

[xu82]

No, this team is limping big time right now.

With an ACL, an ankle and a ........cell phone?

[vee4xu]

One more thing before I hit the hay. Teams generally and X specifically, benefit from having true senior leadership. Last year with James Farr, the year before with Matt Stainbrook/Dee Davis, we can continue going back from there and find good seniors to lead the team. This year, there are no seniors that were recruited to X and playing their senior year. Gaston and Bernard are transfers. The only one was Myles. So, Tre and JP have tried picking up the slack, but this team is void of the senior leadership that has been so important over Xavier's generation of success. It doesn't explain every ill the team has, but not having senior leadership recruited to X doesn't help.

[X Factor]

With an ACL, an ankle and a ........cell phone?

If you think this team's struggles are purely physical and Myle's stupidity, you haven't been watching too closely. Yes, they've had an affect obviously, but this team still has "talent" that hasn't stepped up.

[GoMuskies]

Still shitty

[xu82]

If you think this team's struggles are purely physical and Myle's stupidity, you haven't been watching too closely. Yes, they've had an affect obviously, but this team still has "talent" that hasn't stepped up.

They have people playing roles they should not be in. What things are truly "pure"? This is a big damn deal. But feel free to bash as you feel necessary. They have people playing roles they were not meant to be in at this time. Shit happens.

[OTRMUSKIE]

If talent hasnt stepped up then that's on Mack. I think Mack is a fantastic recruiter but his coaching has been suspect and he probably agree. I didn't expect them to win all 3 road games but I did expect the team to show up. Win 2/3 and I'll b happy

[xu82]

If talent hasnt stepped up then that's on Mack. I think Mack is a fantastic recruiter but his coaching has been suspect and he probably agree. I didn't expect them to win all 3 road games but I did expect the team to show up. Win 2/3 and I'll b happy

It was not time yet for these guys to be in that position? What if they sent you to college after your acne plagued 8th grade? Few Doogie Howsers out there.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I laughed at that!!! I know but this is major college ball and even our upper classman look bad. I am just a homer and expect too much.

[xu82]

If your best players are gone, the remaining players (even seniors) look like less. It's a team game.

[XU 87]

You can't lose Myles Davis and then Sumner and then expect the team to not miss a beat with Malcolm Bernard and Goodin.

You're replacing a fifth year senior starter with a guy who was at Florida A&M and a future NBA player with a freshman. You need talent to win games. And unless you're UK, experience is important too.

[Juice]

That's macks problem. Why let scholarships go to waste? This year has to be a wake up call for him with all the injuries and myles. Absolutely no depth except for center and those 3 guys might combine to match the opposing teams starting center. Omara is what he is. Gaston has shown flashes but not very often. Jones should be a lot better next year.

But they might all be filled next year if ed and tre stay. I haven't seen blueitt projected as a first rounder in any of the mock drafts and Sumner has fallen since the injury.

Having a back court of Sumner, goodin and Scruggs would be very nice. Then you have blueitt, JP, the Jones, Marshall, harden,ridder and earnst. That would put us 1 over but you got to figure someone will transfer or be ineligble. I'm thinking Jones will be ineligble and that why we signed earnst late. Why else would you transfer twice your senior year?

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Because what player worth a damn is going to sign with Xavier and wait for injuries for them to get minimal playing time? Smarten up Nas.

[xu82]

You can't lose Myles Davis and then Sumner and then expect the team to not miss a beat with Malcolm Bernard and Goodin.

You're replacing a fifth year senior starter with a guy who was at Florida A&M and a future NBA player with a freshman. You need talent to win games. And unless you're UK, experience is important too.

Huh? Are you sure? :)

[IM4X]

We need guys who can drive AND finish. Q can drive and dish but can't finish. JP and Tre have a few moves but can't consistently get to the basket. Thankfully Tre has an excellent mid range game. Gates and Bernard mainly are spot up shooters. This is who we are for the rest of the year. Hopefully a couple of the guys coming in are slashers and can get to the rim but that doesn't help us now. I still think X wins their last 3 and we are currently nowhere near any bubble.

Pretty spot on. Though not confident about winning all three games at this point.

By by the way, when the hell is JP going to show up for a complete game. Dude was a man in the first half and mess in the 2nd. And honestly... some blame goes to the coaching too. To many players keep making too many bonehead mistakes game after game for me to believe it's all on the players.

[IM4X]

Face it. This team sucks right now...and it's not getting better. I said after the Colorado game that it wasn't Top 25 and nothing has improved - and then we lost Ed. Q is not giving the team what it needs. He had a weak small defender on him and only once took him to the rack. Byron Larkin said numerous times that Q deferred too much when he should have looked to score. He then put his teammates in bad positions. Malcolm Bernard is a ghost out there and Kaiser Gates doesn't seem to want to score. JP is half savant, half knucklehead.
There is nothing that encourages me right now. I thought that we'd lose this game going in, but we had a halftime lead and faded....again. With 3 minutes to go we had scored 53 points.

Unless we can win at least 2 of the next 3, we don't deserve the Dance. It's a quagmire.

They are looking very mediocre indeed and you nailed some issues with today's game. But do you believe the team sucking now is all on the players. Here's something that's been on my mind: Before the season, there was a statement made by someone (think it was Mercurio) who said Mack believed this season's team was going to be very good and that he felt the bigs were going to be just as good as last year's -maybe even better (paraphrasing). It was a statement that frankly I was shocked to hear. If Mack really felt that way, shouldn't he be held partly responsible for this team not playing up to expectations. I mean, I get that Sumner went down, but even when he was on the court, this team never really played well together for more than short stretches at a time. Some of these players are not stepping up when they are needed... and the same could be said about the coaching staff.

While this team may come together a little better than that are now, it just seems like there are too many players who don't know what they are supposed to do at times or how they are being asked to contribute.

[IM4X]

If you think this team's struggles are purely physical and Myle's stupidity, you haven't been watching too closely. Yes, they've had an affect obviously, but this team still has "talent" that hasn't stepped up nearly consistently enough.

Add that to your commmet since we would probably all agree that we've seen flashes of very solid play by most X scholarship players at one time or another this season, yet nothing consistent from almost any of them.

[TUclutch]

Didn't listen, just watched the game. He is always looking to pass and never to score. Hopefully the light kicks on for him so he can be a complete player.

Jesus christ. For several games in a row we had multiple people complaining about Q shooting too much. The kid is a freshman in a position no one expected him to be in. He's playing the PG spot very well considering all that's happened. If you're hating on Qs play or complaining about him not bringing enough to games in order to win, you're complaining about the wrong thing

[TUclutch]

It's getting really hard to read these threads anymore with some of the knuckleheads who post. Is there a way to silence certain posters so you don't see their posts at all?

[American X]

I know those guys have aspirations at playing at a higher level in college, and obviously, I don't follow any other teams like I do Xavier. However, I doubt any other Top 25 caliber programs or teams with Final Four goals are taking guys from the likes of Norfolk St. (kenpom 297) and Florida A&M (kenpom 344).

We should have got a transfer from Fordham.

[Lamont Sanford]

If talent hasnt stepped up then that's on Mack. I think Mack is a fantastic recruiter but his coaching has been suspect and he probably agree. I didn't expect them to win all 3 road games but I did expect the team to show up.

What he said. Been saying this for years.

[ammtd34]

Our coach is bad because he's losing road games without either of his starting guards. Alrighty then.

Extra minutes don't automatically make a role player better. They just become a role player who's playing a bunch of minutes.

[bleedXblue]

We need guys who can drive AND finish. Q can drive and dish but can't finish. JP and Tre have a few moves but can't consistently get to the basket. Thankfully Tre has an excellent mid range game. Gates and Bernard mainly are spot up shooters. This is who we are for the rest of the year. Hopefully a couple of the guys coming in are slashers and can get to the rim but that doesn't help us now. I still think X wins their last 3 and we are currently nowhere near any bubble.

Not sure what team you are watching? Probability of X winning the last 3 games is very, very low. Did you just watch Butler beat Nova at home? Come on. I think we might win 1 more game. If we win all three, I'm buying you a beer.

[bleedXblue]

Our coach is bad because he's losing road games without either of his starting guards. Alrighty then.

Extra minutes don't automatically make a role player better. They just become a role player who's playing a bunch of minutes.

In fairness, he was losing most of his road games with Ed and Tre.

[XMuskieFTW]

Not sure what team you are watching? Probability of X winning the last 3 games is very, very low. Did you just watch Butler beat Nova at home? Come on. I think we might win 1 more game. If we win all three, I'm buying you a beer.

This is just an overreaction. People vastly underrate home court advantage. We should be favored in each of our remaining 3 games.

[GoMuskies]

I doubt Xavier will be favored on Sunday. Pick 'em or Butler -1.

[ammtd34]

In fairness, he was losing most of his road games with Ed and Tre.

Which were UC, Butler, Nova, Baylor, and Colorado. Hardly an indictment.

[casualfan]

Which were UC, Butler, Nova, Baylor, and Colorado. Hardly an indictment.

It's hardly an indictment.

It is also not what you would expect from a team that came into the season ranked #7 with final four aspirations.

[GoMuskies]

It's hardly an indictment.

It is also not what you would expect from a team that came into the season ranked #7 with final four aspirations.

Other than Colorado, none of those losses are surprising on the road for a #7 team. Colorado sucked, though. If you lost the other four and won all the rest (even with a loss at home to Nova thrown in), Xavier would probably still be around the top 10.

[ammtd34]

Other than Colorado, none of those losses are surprising on the road for a #7 team. Colorado sucked, though. If you lost the other four and won all the rest (even with a loss at home to Nova thrown in), Xavier would probably still be around the top 10.

Right. No team in the country would be expected to win "most" of those games.

[kyxu]

It is also not what you would expect from a team that came into the season ranked #7 with final four aspirations.

With Ed being lost in January and Myles Davis having a stale cup of coffee with this year's team, I don't think preseason expectations should really be the measuring stick for this team anymore.

[casualfan]

With Ed being lost in January and Myles Davis having a stale cup of coffee with this year's team, I don't think preseason expectations should really be the measuring stick for this team anymore.

All of the games we're discussing happened before Ed was lost.

And that preseason expectation was created knowing Myles would not be around for any of those games.

[casualfan]

Right. No team in the country would be expected to win "most" of those games.

Who said anything about expecting them to win most of those games?

I said losing all of those games is not what you would expect from a top 10 team.

[sgarcia]

Not sure what team you are watching? Probability of X winning the last 3 games is very, very low. Did you just watch Butler beat Nova at home? Come on. I think we might win 1 more game. If we win all three, I'm buying you a beer.

I'll be in the Columbus area visiting friends for the first 2 rounds of March madness if you're near that area :)

[ammtd34]

Who said anything about expecting them to win most of those games?

I said losing all of those games is not what you would expect from a top 10 team.

Losing games that you're expected to lose, as most top 10 teams would be against that schedule, is exactly what I would expect.

[casualfan]

Losing games that you're expected to lose, as most top 10 teams would be against that schedule, is exactly what I would expect.

I was not aware we were expected to lose the Colorado game.

That's my bad.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If......I'm buying you a beer.

Uh oh last time I heard this well....ya know. :biggrin:

[ammtd34]

I was not aware we were expected to lose the Colorado game.

That's my bad.

It was -1.5, but that's not what my original response was addressing anyway. The post said X was losing most of their away games with Ed and that a top 10 team wouldn't be expected to do that. I disagreed and that point stands.

[GoMuskies]

I'll buy any of you assholes a beer if you make it to Las Vegas during the Big East Tournament.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wish I was going back there for MM this year. I am banned for at least a few years by my wife for coming back with the flu for the 2nd time in 4 years.

[mirabilelectu]

It was -1.5, but that's not what my original response was addressing anyway. The post said X was losing most of their away games with Ed and that a top 10 team wouldn't be expected to do that. I disagreed and that point stands.

So you're saying that every time we are a dog you expect us to lose? In general, to the point about our play with Ed in the lineup, we should also look at the wins; we weren't exactly setting the world aflame with those either.

[AviatorX]

For what it's worth, Lunardi to Shannon on X's tournament chances. Actually, chances is the wrong word probably.

“I just think it’s a matter of impacting their seeding at this point," Lunardi said. "...If they were to lose two out of three and lose in the conference tournament early to a team below them, they’re probably going to be in the 8-9 game.”

[D-West & PO-Z]

For what it's worth, Lunardi to Shannon on X's tournament chances. Actually, chances is the wrong word probably.

“I just think it’s a matter of impacting their seeding at this point," Lunardi said. "...If they were to lose two out of three and lose in the conference tournament early to a team below them, they’re probably going to be in the 8-9 game.”

HAHAHA that is great. He is even more confident than I am!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wonder what he thinks we'd be if we go 3-0 and win 1 in the BE tourney.

[GoMuskies]

I just know that if we can't beat Butler Sunday, I'll be REALLY nervous for that DePaul tilt.

Looked at the schedule....I guess I should wait for the results of the Marquette game, too, before I worry about DePaul. Oops.

[Caf]

HAHAHA that is great. He is even more confident than I am!

I'm starting to wonder if people are pissed about our good chances of making the tournament.

[TUclutch]

It's hardly an indictment.

It is also not what you would expect from a team that came into the season ranked #7 with final four aspirations.

anyone who actually thought this team was a top 10 team or really had final four hopes is living in la la land

[Juice]

anyone who actually thought this team was a top 10 team or really had final four hopes is living in la la land

I think it was fair to hope for those things but also not expect them. I thought we were a top 15 team, Sweet 16-Elite 8 team, with a chance to to make a Final 4 if the match ups worked out.

[ammtd34]

So you're saying that every time we are a dog you expect us to lose? In general, to the point about our play with Ed in the lineup, we should also look at the wins; we weren't exactly setting the world aflame with those either.

I mean, underdogs aren't randomly picked. And winning on the road is really hard. So if we're a road dog, yeah. I kind of expect to lose. North Carolina has 5 losses this year, for example. 4 are on the road, and they're to the 12th, 37th, 88th, and 99th teams in RPI.

Our road losses before Ed went down were to 2, 5, 11, 14, and 105.

So again, I expect teams - even top 10 teams - to lose games to really good teams on the road.

[IM4X]

I'll buy any of you assholes a beer if you make it to Las Vegas during the Big East Tournament.

Vegas for the BE tournament? C'mon. Gotta be a part of it... New York, New York. Most exciting conference tournament to watch at the best venue in all of college basketball. Been going to it for more than 15 years. Now that X is part of it... it just makes it even better... just waiting for this team to get fed up with their lackluster play and start kicking each other in the tail to step up and play their best.

Happy to buy you a beer or two or three.

[GoMuskies]

I was in New York, NY for the Big East Tournament last year. This year I might be at the New York, New York for the Big East Tournament (though doubtful as I rarely get that far south on the Strip).

[xu82]

I was in New York, NY for the Big East Tournament last year. This year I might be at the New York, New York for the Big East Tournament (though doubtful as I rarely get that far south on the Strip).

Let us know if you can tell the difference! More importantly, let us know if you can't! That would be the sign of a wild trip!

[LA Muskie]

I've disliked those 2 all year. You would think Gaston would be a lot better out there since he was spent last year with the team during his transfer year. Bernard was supposed to be a lock down defender but I always see his guy getting free for a wide open shot.

The only guys on this team willing to shoot are Tre and JP. Everyone else looks terrified to shoot it.

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No one expected Bernard to be a lockdown defender. That's revisionist history. Bernard was an emergency pickup when we lost Ekiyor. Nothing more.


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[XU 87]

No one expected Bernard to be a lockdown defender. That's revisionist history. Bernard was an emergency pickup when we lost Ekiyor. Nothing more.


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When Bernard first transferred, the general thought was, "Will he even play?" Then I heard some people say, "He's got some speed and quickness. He can contribute some. Look for him to play 8-10 minutes per game off the bench."

Now he's starting and playing 20-30 minutes per game, and we really need him to contribute more. The problem is that I don't think he has the talent to be a big contributor. That said, I still would like him to be more aggressive on offense.