Game Thread: Xavier v. Seton Hall (February 22, 2017) Big East Conference

[IM4X]

I was in New York, NY for the Big East Tournament last year. This year I might be at the New York, New York for the Big East Tournament (though doubtful as I rarely get that far south on the Strip).

Got to admit... I really like that casino and I do miss the strip. Good times.

I have a cousin (a fellow XU grad) who lives there. Would be nice to make it out there again one day to see him. Just not for the BE tournament (especially since I live pretty-pretty close to MSG.

[xu82]

Got to admit... I really that casino and I do miss the strip. Good times.

I have a cousin (a fellow XU grad) who lives there. Would be nice to make it out there again one day to see him. Just not for the BE tournament (especially since I live pretty-pretty close to MSG.

Our last trip to Vegas we started off staying with friends who live there now. What a totally different perspective! Looking at the strip from their pool across the golf course, dining at their favorite "local" restaurants and their clubs. Hitting the strip only for choice experiences.

The Aria wasn't too shabby either.

[IM4X]

Our last trip to Vegas we started off staying with friends who live there now. What a totally different perspective! Looking at the strip from their pool across the golf course, dining at their favorite "local" restaurants and their clubs. Hitting the strip only for choice experiences.

The Aria wasn't too shabby either.

Yes. Being with people who live in that town who take you to where the locals like to go Is the best. I remember going to Japan and being taken around by some friends who lived there for several years. They took me to all of these little hidden gems (many off the beaten path) that I never would have experienced otherwise. It made what would have been a quite memorable visit simply unforgettable. I get excited just thinking about that trip.

I try to do the same for my friends visiting NYC.

[markchal]

I know this is a little off topic, but do we expect the Big East to have the tourney at MSG long-term? For those who have gone, how's the draw? I imagine it's taken a considerable hit, given that there's fewer schools, smaller schools, and the best additions are all the farthest away. I could see a bigger conference trying to make a play for MSG.

[GoMuskies]

I know this is a little off topic, but do we expect the Big East to have the tourney at MSG long-term? For those who have gone, how's the draw? I imagine it's taken a considerable hit, given that there's fewer schools, smaller schools, and the best additions are all the farthest away. I could see a bigger conference trying to make a play for MSG.

No reason for us to lose MSG long-term. Last year, I know that Friday night at least was a sellout, and the place was absolutely electric for Villanova/Providence. Less so for Xavier/Seton Hall as the evening wound down. I think the final sold out, too.

It's not the tough ticket it used to be, but it's still very well attended with a fantastic college game atmosphere.

[xudash]

A quote from last year:

“There were people hanging over the Sky Bridges,” Seton Hall coach Kevin Willard said of the 19,000-plus fans who filled the arena to its top level and shook the historic building with rambunctious noise. For the four-day-tournament total attendance was 78,222.

Now imagine St. John's coming "back on line" at some point.

As i understand it, so far, so good as far as the MSG tournament event is concerned.

[LA Muskie]

anyone who actually thought this team was a top 10 team or really had final four hopes is living in la la land

Not true. I live in La La Land and at no point since real games were played have I thought we were a Top 10 team with legit Final Four aspirations.

[vee4xu]

One area in which X is truly lacking this season, and it was somewhat touched upon earlier here, they have no one to draw contact in the lane. Even when Ed was healthy, he would drive, but not in any big way. Mack touched on this after one of these three recent losses. Said it in relation to Q. He said Q doesn't try to drive and get fouled and when he does, he doesn't make his layups. That brings me to my point. The guards this year cannot drive consistently to the rim, when they have done so, they miss a lot of bunnies and then miss either one or two fouls shots. So, when combining the lack of times X drives with the missed layups and lousy FT shooting those times the guards are fouled, that is potentially a lot of points left on the floor each game. It seems driving to the basket is not part of Tre's game. He'd just as soon pull up for a 4-6 footer. Also, he doesn't exhibit great ball handling skills, so driving isn't his forte. JP will occasionally drive and either bank one high off the board or do a reverse layup. But, those are few and far between, especially versus chucking up a 27-30 foot 3-pointer. This issue and very few transition points of turnovers kill the scoring chances. Teams know this, pack the paint and turn X into a jump shooting team from 18-25 feet. Not their strong suit. Guys like Lavender, Tu, Lyons, Burrell and Dee Davis were all good at driving the lane and turing it into 2-3 points. This year it's many less chances and more like 0-1 point.

[LA Muskie]

At this point we are starting two freshmen and a graduate transfer, with a senior transfer first off the bench. That's 4 of our current top 6 with 0 years of prior XU experience -- and 2 of which with no prior college experience at all. We may well make the tourney. But let's be honest with ourselves. If so, we are mostly making it on the back of our SOS, our conference strength, and our Ed-era performance and potential.

[GoMuskies]

At this point we are starting two freshmen and a graduate transfer with a senior transfer first off the bench. That's 4 of our current top 6 with 0 years of prior XU experience -- and 2 of which with no prior college experience at all. We may well make the tourney. But let's be honest with ourselves. If so, we are mostly making it on the back of our SOS, our conference strength, and our Ed-era performance.

Or as I've been saying for a while....we're shitty.

We at least have a shot to be pretty good with Trevon back out there, but really not much better than pretty good, I don't think.

[xu82]

At this point we are starting two freshmen and a graduate transfer, with a senior transfer first off the bench. That's 4 of our current top 6 with 0 years of prior XU experience -- and 2 of which with no prior college experience at all. We may well make the tourney. But let's be honest with ourselves. If so, we are mostly making it on the back of our SOS, our conference strength, and our Ed-era performance and potential.

Yeah, what's wrong with that? With a weak SOS, maybe we have more wins? I'm not expecting a tourney run, just want "in", do the best we can and reload. Anything better is gravy. Stuff happened.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Just make the dance, all I want. Win the next 3 and all is forgiven.

[vee4xu]

A thought just crossed my mind. I have plenty of experience sitting down, looking at X's schedule and imagining that they could win the rest of their games. I don't recall a time where I sit down in the midst of a four game losing streak, look at the schedule and pray they at least beat DePaul. Weird times these are.

[xu82]

A thought just crossed my mind. I have plenty of experience sitting down, looking at X's schedule and imagining that they could win the rest of their games. I don't recall a time where I sit down in the midst of a four game losing streak, look at the schedule and pray they at least beat DePaul. Weird times these are.

I try to avoid having thoughts cross my mind. Try that....

[XU 87]

anyone who actually thought this team was a top 10 team or really had final four hopes is living in la la land

Without two of their top three players, I think we all agree, X is not a top ten team.

After reading a few of these posts, one would think that it doesn't matter if a team loses its top players. The other guys just need to "step up". It's that easy.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Without two of their top three players, I think we all agree, X is not a top ten team.

After reading a few of these posts, one would think that it doesn't matter if a team loses its top players. The other guys just need to "step up". It's that easy.

Yeah and our coach is has a lot of issues because he cant get his role players to play like his stars. Coach em up Mack!!

[xu82]

Without two of their top three players, I think we all agree, X is not a top ten team.

After reading a few of these posts, one would think that it doesn't matter if a team loses its top players. The other guys just need to "step up". It's that easy.

Don't forget a hobbled third....

Unless you meant the other....oh it just goes on.

[XMuskieFTW]

Yeah and our coach is has a lot of issues because he cant get his role players to play like his stars. Coach em up Mack!!

Yea! What's wrong with Bernard and Gaston!? They averaged a combined 30 17 and 6 their junior year. Coach Mak must just be bad!

[IM4X]

I know this is a little off topic, but do we expect the Big East to have the tourney at MSG long-term? For those who have gone, how's the draw? I imagine it's taken a considerable hit, given that there's fewer schools, smaller schools, and the best additions are all the farthest away. I could see a bigger conference trying to make a play for MSG.

As someone who has been going to the BE tournament at MSG for the past 15+ years, I can tell you that the crowd is still quite good. Tickets seem to be a little easier to get which makes sense since some near by schools like Syracuse and Connecticut are no longer in the BE and of course there are less teams overall in the conference. Surprisingly, Creighton has a big crowd (yes you heard that right). Those fans Really travel. They're either one of the most faithful in the country or they just love an excuse to visit NYC. Seton Hall and St John's (and even Villanova) being nearby certainly helps. Georgetown fans travel pretty well too. I will say it again. This is a great venue and always an exciting conference tournament filled with lots of energy.

As for another conference making a play for MSG... It did happen. The ACC tried to make a move to take it over, but they got shot down as the BE already had it locked up and under contract. Supposedly even Duke and NC tried to step in and sweet talk them with some other possible incentives... but got nowhere. Gotta love knowing we have the most coveted venue in all of college basketball and there is nothing any other conference can do about it (at least for now).

[IM4X]

One area in which X is truly lacking this season, and it was somewhat touched upon earlier here, they have no one to draw contact in the lane. Even when Ed was healthy, he would drive, but not in any big way. Mack touched on this after one of these three recent losses. Said it in relation to Q. He said Q doesn't try to drive and get fouled and when he does, he doesn't make his layups. That brings me to my point. The guards this year cannot drive consistently to the rim, when they have done so, they miss a lot of bunnies and then miss either one or two fouls shots. So, when combining the lack of times X drives with the missed layups and lousy FT shooting those times the guards are fouled, that is potentially a lot of points left on the floor each game. It seems driving to the basket is not part of Tre's game. He'd just as soon pull up for a 4-6 footer. Also, he doesn't exhibit great ball handling skills, so driving isn't his forte. JP will occasionally drive and either bank one high off the board or do a reverse layup. But, those are few and far between, especially versus chucking up a 27-30 foot 3-pointer. This issue and very few transition points of turnovers kill the scoring chances. Teams know this, pack the paint and turn X into a jump shooting team from 18-25 feet. Not their strong suit. Guys like Lavender, Tu, Lyons, Burrell and Dee Davis were all good at driving the lane and turing it into 2-3 points. This year it's many less chances and more like 0-1 point.

Yes. This is something that I had also pointed to at one point as being a big concern.

Apparently we are on the the same page with several thoughts as I too had been bringing up the lack of senior leadership on the team and how there is something that happens to certain players in their final year of eligibility - knowing it's the last time they will get to play college in that uniform and on that team.

If anyone thinks it is not that big of a deal, just look at how Farr and Remy and Dee and Matt and Soto and Chalmers and Hill and Strong played in the final season (particularly during the second half of the season and during the NCAA tournament). It's almost always been seniors who have stepped up and played their best ball and gotten others to step up their game too. Not having that type of senior who has played on the team for several years on the current roster is clearly not helping the current situation.

Just like not having Farr out on the court as much as usual during the Wisconsin game in last year's tournament very likely hurt the team too.

[mirabilelectu]

Without two of their top three players, I think we all agree, X is not a top ten team.

After reading a few of these posts, one would think that it doesn't matter if a team loses its top players. The other guys just need to "step up". It's that easy.

Clearly, if we had our full, expected roster we would most likely have one or two more wins and be in a better position right now. But this team wasn't playing consistently at a high level with a full roster.

[bleedXblue]

Clearly, if we had our full, expected roster we would most likely have one or two more wins and be in a better position right now. But this team wasn't playing consistently at a high level with a full roster.

Yes for sure.

I think we are 20-8 likely and would probably finish the regular season with 22-23 wins.

[Juice]

Yes. This is something that I had also pointed to at one point as being a big concern.

Apparently we are on the the same page with several thoughts as I too had been bringing up the lack of senior leadership on the team and how there is something that happens to certain players in their final year of eligibility - knowing it's the last time they will get to play college in that uniform and on that team.

If anyone thinks it is not that big of a deal, just look at how Farr and Remy and Dee and Matt and Soto and Chalmers and Hill and Strong played in the final season (particularly during the second half of the season and during the NCAA tournament). It's almost always been seniors who have stepped up and played their best ball and gotten others to step up their game too. Not having that type of senior who has played on the team for several years on the current roster is clearly not helping the current situation.

Just like not having Farr out on the court as much as usual during the Wisconsin game in last year's tournament very likely hurt the team too.

What senior leader are you directing this at? The one who was kicked off the team? The one who got here this summer? Or the big man who has raised the level of his game over the last 4-5 games but simply got in foul trouble in the last game?

[XU 87]

Clearly, if we had our full, expected roster we would most likely have one or two more wins and be in a better position right now. But this team wasn't playing consistently at a high level with a full roster.

X has never had a full roster, except for the two games where Myles played and scored 2 points.

[mirabilelectu]

X has never had a full roster, except for the two games where Myles played and scored 2 points.

Whether you consider the adjective "full" to mean with or without Myles, it wouldn't cause me to change my description of this team's play.

[IM4X]

What senior leader are you directing this at? The one who was kicked off the team? The one who got here this summer? Or the big man who has raised the level of his game over the last 4-5 games but simply got in foul trouble in the last game?

There isn't one. That's my point. While Gaston and Bernard only have this year of eligibility left, they are essentially new members of the team who haven't played on the team for years (and haven't yet built quite the same level of comradery with the other players). Seniors who have been on the team for years become mentors to the other players. Other players on the team look up to them- Their teammates feel they owe something more to them. They listen to these seniors intently and will go to battle for them, with a greater sense of purpose... knowing it's that senior's final year. The senior becomes a leader, showing the way with his drive and effort on the court and the rest of team listens and responds by stepping up as well, wanting to send that player out on a high note. Everyone seems to give a little more

Myles was supposed to be that senior, but then it all got screwed up with the that stupid phone incident.

And while Tre is the closest player on the team that fits the "most senior player who may leave after this year," he can always come back next year if he wants. There is no "this is his last chance" about him. He fits more into the Jalen category of last year.

[Juice]

There isn't one. That's my point. While Gaston and Bernard only have this year of eligibility left, they are essentially new members of the team who haven't played on the team for years (and haven't yet built quite the same level of comradery with the other players). Seniors who have been on the team for years become mentors to the other players. Other players on the team look up to them- Their teammates feel they owe something more to them. They listen to these seniors intently and will go to battle for them, with a greater sense of purpose... knowing it's that senior's final year. The senior becomes a leader, showing the way with his drive and effort on the court and the rest of team listens and responds by stepping up as well, wanting to send that player out on a high note. Everyone seems to give a little more

Myles was supposed to be that senior, but then it all got screwed up with the that stupid phone incident.

And while Tre is the closest player on the team that fits the "most senior player who may leave after this year," he can always come back next year if he wants. There is no "this is his last chance" about him. He fits more into the Jalen category of last year.

I think you're making too big of a deal of shit like this. Leaders are leaders. They don't need to be seniors. They don't need to be playing for a "last chance." Young players will listen to leaders as long as they're good leaders.

[IM4X]

I think you're making too big of a deal of shit like this. Leaders are leaders. They don't need to be seniors. They don't need to be playing for a "last chance." Young players will listen to leaders as long as they're good leaders.

I don't see it that way. I'm making a big deal of it because I believe senior leaderdhip IS a big deal... and truly makes a difference.

I am sure James and TU and Matt (and the teammates around them) would tell you the same thing.

I am not saying young players won't listen to leaders who are not seniors, but it simply isn't the same thing. There is a greater sense of urgency in a SENIOR leader that causes him to push himself more and push to continuously motivate his team to play better. Players around that senior (or those seniors) want to win even more for this person they have learned so much from and have grow to respect, knowing it is that person's last chance to do something special with the team.

In pro sports, the same could be said for a beloved star player who everyone knows will be retiring after the season. When Jerome Bettis declared to his fellow Steeler teammates that he was going to be playing his final season, the team rallied around him and said they were going to make sure they sent him off by winning the Super Bowl. The players were extremely focused that entire season and they all kept saying they knew there was a greater purpose all season that made them play harder and be more focused. They fought and fought and eventually went on to win the Super Bowl.

Now some may try to say it was simply luck or a coincidence that it was his last season and the team won the Super Bowl. Every player and every coach that was part of that Steelers team would tell you that the likelihood of that team winning the Super Bowl without Bettis declaring it was his last year, would have been much smaller. Jerome's teammates and coaches all had a greater purpose - a selfless purpose to give their best for someone who had for years given his teammates and coaches his best and during those years had helped them all become better. Winning for Bettis was indeed a VERY BIG deal.

[Juice]

I don't see it that way. I'm making a big deal of it because I believe senior leaderdhip IS a big deal... and truly makes a difference.

I am sure James and TU and Matt (and the teammates around them) would tell you the same thing.

I am not saying young players won't listen to leaders who are not seniors, but it simply isn't the same thing. There is a greater sense of urgency in a SENIOR leader that causes him to push himself more and push to continuously motivate his team to play better. Players around that senior (or those seniors) want to win even more for this person they have learned so much from and have grow to respect, knowing it is that person's last chance to do something special with the team.

In pro sports, the same could be said for a beloved star player who everyone knows will be retiring after the season. When Jerome Bettis declared to his fellow Steeler teammates that he was going to be playing his final season, the team rallied around him and said they were going to make sure they sent him off by winning the Super Bowl. The players were extremely focused that entire season and they all kept saying they knew there was a greater purpose all season that made them play harder and be more focused. They fought and fought and eventually went on to win the Super Bowl.

Now some may try to say it was simply luck or a coincidence that it was his last season and the team won the Super Bowl. Every player and every coach that was part of that Steelers team would tell you that the likelihood of that team winning the Super Bowl without Bettis declaring it was his last year, would have been much smaller. Jerome's teammates and coaches all had a greater purpose - a selfless purpose to give their best for someone who had for years given his teammates and coaches his best and during those years had helped them all become better. Winning for Bettis was indeed a VERY BIG deal.

Jesus, you're bringing Jerome Bettie into this. I'm out.

Did you know he was from Detroit? People forget that.

[IM4X]

Jesus, you're bringing Jerome Bettie into this. I'm out.

Did you know he was from Detroit? People forget that.

Oh... I sure did. Another reason it is a great example - It made the need to win the Super Bowl for him even more meaningful. Being an NFL great finishing your career with a Super Bowl win played in your own hometown -on arguably the greatest of all NFL teams with the recording of most Super Bowl wins. You couldn't write a better script... At least not for this (pointing to myself) Steeler and Bettis fan.

[Juice]

Oh... I sure did. Another reason it is a great example - It made the need to win the Super Bowl for him even more meaningful. Being an NFL great finishing your career with a Super Bowl win played in your own hometown -on arguably the greatest of all NFL teams with the recording of most Super Bowl wins. You couldn't write a better script... At least not for this (pointing to myself) Steeler and Bettis fan.

I'm being serious when I ask you, do you honestly believe all of this shit? Because I'm guessing no one on XU's roster is sitting there with Trevon, Sumner (when he was healthy), Gaston, and other upper class men and wondering where the senior leadership is. It's such a bullshit reason to claim is the problem. It's the typical shit nerdy white people say when they can't pin point to actual issues, so they just say generalized bullshit like "grit, leadership, hustle, blah blah blah."

"That Joey Votto isn't a leader. He walks too much. He doesn't want to win."
"That Andy Dalton isn't a winner, he doesn't have it in him. Not a leader..."
"We need more hustle guys like Freel..."
"That Rex Burkhead wants it more than the other guys on the roster..."

[THRILLHOUSE]

**pops into thread to check out the latest scorching hot takes**

Wait, someone used a bunch of their time to write a long post to somehow bring up the JEROME BETTIS IS FROM DETROIT! storyline to relate to this Xavier team?

http://img.pandawhale.com/53239-jerry-seinfeld-Im-out-gif-0qdn.gif

[IM4X]

I'm being serious when I ask you, do you honestly believe all of this shit? Because I'm guessing no one on XU's roster is sitting there with Trevon, Sumner (when he was healthy), Gaston, and other upper class men and wondering where the senior leadership is. It's such a bullshit reason to claim is the problem. It's the typical shit nerdy white people say when they can't pin point to actual issues, so they just say generalized bullshit like "grit, leadership, hustle, blah blah blah."

"That Joey Votto isn't a leader. He walks too much. He doesn't want to win."
"That Andy Dalton isn't a winner, he doesn't have it in him. Not a leader..."
"We need more hustle guys like Freel..."
"That Rex Burkhead wants it more than the other guys on the roster..."

Look, I am not suggesting that the lack of senior leadership this year IS the main problem with the team this season, just that it is something the team could really benefit from. It's something that I absolutely believe helped last year's team become more focused and develop chemistry as the season progressed.

I don't really pay much attention to the "typical shit nerdy white people say when they can't pinpoint an issue." Or what kind of typical shit "nerdy black people" say when they can't pinpoint issues or even what "typical shit nerdy asian people" or "nerdy hispanic people say." I am who I am. And when I give my perspective, it is not just some trite thought made by so many that I blindly accepted and then simply regurgitated, it is something I spent some time looking into and testing to see if there is truth.

I do know that I personally find more value in identifying specific problems and doing the best to fix them quickly than I do in just regurgitating some trite statements made by others which add nothing new or makes anyone any more truly informed. I would much rather dig through stats and rewatch parts of a game to find evidence of problem areas with a team and possible ways to fix those problem areas than just be satisfied with hearing, accepting and passing along speculation and opinions made without evidence or facts to support those speculations and opinions. I believe much can be learned by listen to other people's perspectives as long as those people are sincerely trying to push toward a greater truth and not simply intending to belittle or ridicule another person for having a different view.

You also mentioned you are "Guessing no one on XU's roster is sitting there... wondering where the senior leadership is." That may be true, simply because the players all know the only person to truly fill that spot is no longer on the team. Sumner is a sophomore who is still learning to be a PG. You can expect him to display talent on the court, but he should not yet be expected to be able to dish out wisdom as if he were a senior who's played for 3 years. While!Tre is the fits the type of respected player who has been through enough to help push his teammates on the court, he is still not a senior and it is not 100% certain he is leaving after this year... so there is less of a sense of real urgency. Gaston is forced to leave and will likely continue to play with heart for the rest of the season. He is probably in thebest position to motivate his teammates. But because he is relatively new to the team the other players have spent less time with him and have learned less from him and thus likely feel a bit less indebted to him.

There are many issues this team has and again I am not suggesting that if Myles (senior leader) happened to still be on the roster that this team would be a legit final four contentder.

There are a number of issues with this team. Here are just a few that seem rather obviois (at least to me):

• There is clearly a drop off in talent and size from last year in regards to the bigs. They're simply less intimidating and dominant than Farr and Reynolds.
• The loss of Edmund iclearly means a drop off in athleticism on the court and it all but lowers the ceiling for what this team is can expect to accomplish.
• The loss of Myles certainly was a blow, though he didn't exactly come back playing like a starter, so we can't say for sure how much this hurt the team.
• Many players who are getting more minutes are not scoring more and are actually less productive (JP, Bernard, Gates, Q)
• This team keeps making the same dumb mistakes and poor decisions and game after game.
• This team almost always plays worse in the second half
• this team struggle to break a press and often turns it over.
• This team has no true back up PG, which is brutal for a freshman who probably thought he would never play more than 15 minutes a game.
• Some players are not wanting to shoot the ball as much.
• Chris Mack has no answers for why the team is struggling even more than it should be (without Ed) though they had issues even when Ed was healthy
• The team is often unable to stop guards from driving and making easy buckets.
• Aside from Tre, the 3 point shooting % is not that good. JP and Gatss in particular need to make more of this team is going to get back to winning.
• This team is often out of sync and some players look like they aren't sure where they are suppose to be at times or how they shoulls be contributing
• Many players continue to throw up really bad, low percentage shots
• Oh, and this team is without true Senior leadership.

[IM4X]

**pops into thread to check out the latest scorching hot takes**

Wait, someone used a bunch of their time to write a long post to somehow bring up the JEROME BETTIS IS FROM DETROIT! storyline to relate to this Xavier team?


Ha...

Actually, one person used Jerome Bettis in a post as an example and another person replied asking if that person knew he was from Detroit. Close enough though.

I can promise you these few posts are the longest I've ever written... or will ever write again.

Though, I can't promise it's the last time I use my boy Bettis to make a point about this Xavier team.

[Juice]

Ha...

Actually, one person used Jerome Bettis in a post as an example and another person replied asking if that person knew he was from Detroit. Close enough though.

I can promise you these few posts are the longest I've ever written... or will ever write again.

Though, I can't promise it's the last time I use my boy Bettis to make a point about this Xavier team.

You realize that I was being facetious right?

[Xville]

I'm being serious when I ask you, do you honestly believe all of this shit? Because I'm guessing no one on XU's roster is sitting there with Trevon, Sumner (when he was healthy), Gaston, and other upper class men and wondering where the senior leadership is. It's such a bullshit reason to claim is the problem. It's the typical shit nerdy white people say when they can't pin point to actual issues, so they just say generalized bullshit like "grit, leadership, hustle, blah blah blah."

"That Joey Votto isn't a leader. He walks too much. He doesn't want to win."
"That Andy Dalton isn't a winner, he doesn't have it in him. Not a leader..."
"We need more hustle guys like Freel..."
"That Rex Burkhead wants it more than the other guys on the roster..."

Go ahead and look for any successful xavier basketball season that did not have senior leadership on it and let us know what you find. You would be looking for a very long time. If you don't think that senior leadership is important when it c9mes to success for programs like xavier, then you simply have not been paying attention.

At programs like duke, Kentucky, Kansas etc it is not nearly important, but for programs like x, it is. Of course it's not the only reason this team is pretty meh this year, but it is a contributing factor.

[GoMuskies]

1997 had little to no senior leadership. Sophomore leadership.

[Juice]

Go ahead and look for any successful xavier basketball season that did not have senior leadership on it and let us know what you find. You would be looking for a very long time. If you don't think that senior leadership is important when it c9mes to success for programs like xavier, then you simply have not been paying attention.

At programs like duke, Kentucky, Kansas etc it is not nearly important, but for programs like x, it is. Of course it's not the only reason this team is pretty meh this year, but it is a contributing factor.

You're confusing leadership with experience and talent.

[IM4X]

You're confusing leadership with experience and talent.

Actually, he is not. Though, experience and talent are two things one will find in senior leadership. Those two things can be found in non-senior leadership too. Still, it's hard to believe you are denying that Senior leadership is real and has helped teams

Does a team always need senior leadership to be really good. No, not always. Does it help a team to have it? You better believe it does. Quite certain every X coach and even coach K would agree.

[IM4X]

You realize that I was being facetious right?

Facetious about senior leadership not being real?

[Juice]

Facetious about senior leadership not being real?

No the shit about Jerome Bettis.

And I guess it's real but it's absolutely overrated. If you need senior leadership, you're probably a shitty or average team regardless. Good players, talent, coaching, athleticism, etc. win, not some guy who is older than everyone else yelling platitudes at them.

[IM4X]

No the shit about Jerome Bettis.

And I guess it's real but it's absolutely overrated. If you need senior leadership, you're probably a shitty or average team regardless. Good players, talent, coaching, athleticism, etc. win, not some guy who is older than everyone else yelling platitudes at them.

Progress.

You'll get there... sooner than later... if Trevon sticks around next year.

[Juice]

Progress.

You'll get there... sooner than later... if Trevon sticks around next year.

Yeah man, you got me. Shit..... You convinced me that something that is an ideal but not something that can be measured actually exists. Damn.

[XUFan09]

Although things like "clutch play," "toughness," and "senior leadership" are real, the degree to which some fans invoke these ideas makes me think they believe in magic. Somehow, these things are supposed to simply make up for deficiencies in talent, experience, and health.

I mean, I get overcoming adversity, but this team is down a high IQ experienced sharpshooter, an NBA prospect point guard, and a star player's ankle. Senior leadership is the least of this team's concerns.

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[Juice]

Although things like "clutch play," "toughness," and "senior leadership" are real, the degree to which some fans invoke these ideas makes me think they believe in magic. Somehow, these things are supposed to simply make up for deficiencies in talent, experience, and health.

I mean, I get overcoming adversity, but this team is down a high IQ experienced sharpshooter, an NBA prospect point guard, and a star player's ankle. Senior leadership is the least of this team's concerns.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

They won't let me rep you, but thank you for your sanity.

[D-West & PO-Z]

They won't let me rep you, but thank you for your sanity.

Got him for us both.

[waggy]

Coaches invoke toughness and senior leadership too. It's not just fans.

[XUFan09]

Coaches invoke toughness and senior leadership too. It's not just fans.

Coaches have to talk about these thing, along with stuff like "next man up," because they need to urge on the team they have, not the team they wish they had. Fans don't have such responsibilities.

[waggy]

Yeah thanks. So is it real or not?

[XUFan09]

Yeah thanks. So is it real or not?

Pronoun without antecedent. Express yourself more clearly in the future, thanks.

[xu82]

Pronoun without antecedent. Express yourself more clearly in the future, thanks.

A Stats guy, AND an english guy? What kind of freak are you?