UConn

[BMoreX]

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/rothstein-uconn-big-east-recent-discussions-expansion/

[xavierj]

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/rothstein-uconn-big-east-recent-discussions-expansion/

I would be OK with that.

[BMoreX]

Said this on Twitter but I would support UConn to the Big East as long as the conference stays round-robin and goes to 20 conference games. I love the round robin.

UConn provides:
1. National brand (just a down year, IMO)
2. Increased attendance at MSG (which should help to extend the contract when it is up)
3. Interest from FOX (and in general, the next TV contract)
4. Traditional rival for half the league

Also, I would slap an enormous exit fee on them just in case the Big Ten or ACC comes calling 5-10 years down the road.

[Juice]

As much as I f*cking hate UConn, I think they would be a good addition. Plus, it would turn the American from a dumpster fire to just a fiery bag of shit.

[xubrew]

From the article...


“If the Big East expanded to 20 games with UConn as a member, it would help offset other power-five programs being in position to get more of the NCAA bids,” one source said. “It would provide an opportunity for the teams in the league to get more games that matter and more games that can help their overall resume.”

This is just patently incorrect.

There is only one power five conference that routinely gets more than half of their teams in. That's the same power conference that has ten teams and plays an 18 game double round robin format.

A league will always post a collective record of .500 in conference play. If the overall record of the teams in the league is over .500 in OOC play, then adding games to the conference schedule makes the overall record go down, which makes the metrics that the committee uses go down.

That's not my opinion. It is a mathematical fact. There is a reason that the Big East and the Big Twelve get a higher percentage of their teams in than the other four power conferences. We just sent six teams to the NCAA Tournament and one of them one the national title. Maybe things are working out jsut fine and we should keep it the way it is. Just a thought.

[blueblob06]

I think UConn would be a great program to add to the Big East. Having said that, maybe this is crazy, but as a fan, I'd rather not have 20 (of the 30) regular season games be conference games. I think it's more fun to see a variety of teams (via non-conf scheduling) each year.

If the Big East were 11 teams and everyone played 20 conf games (play each team twice), that leaves 10 games for Xavier to schedule (yes, 11 potentially because of the early-season tournament rule allowing a 31st regular season game).

After scheduling an early season tournament, that accounts for 3 of those 10 games. The Crosstown Shootout is a 4th, and Wake Forest a 5th. We'd only have 5 more games to schedule. In an ideal world, you'd like to continue to have the first 2 games of the year be mid-RPI-level (100 to 200) teams at home to get a feel for the team and get some homes games before the big non-conf games. That would put X up to 7 non-conf games, with only 3 left to schedule against power conference schools.

Just my initial thoughts.

[xubrew]

I'd strongly support adding UConn if we can kick out Depaul. Even then I think I'd rather just have nine, but I wouldn't be too upset if they came in as a tenth.

[GoMuskies]

UConn would beat our women's team by 100.

[xubrew]

UConn would beat our women's team by 100.

UConn's women's team would beat our men's team by 100

[principal]

While I know it will never happen, what would people here think about the following scenario:

Add: UConn and UC
Drop: DePaul

Again, will never happen as I don't see DePaul leaving willingly and I don't see the Big East pushing out a member. But hypothetically, what do you think? If Duke and UNC tolerate one another, and I would add help improve the league, why not XU and UC in the same league?

principal

[muskiefan82]

That game would probably be the most attended women's home game in XU history, though. They are a sight to see.

[American X]

While I know it will never happen, what would people here think about the following scenario:

Add: UConn and UC
Drop: DePaul

Again, will never happen as I don't see DePaul leaving willingly and I don't see the Big East pushing out a member. But hypothetically, what do you think? If Duke and UNC tolerate one another, and I would add help improve the league, why not XU and UC in the same league?

Besides adding Satan to the Catholic conference?

[muskiefan82]

UC thinks too highly of its football program to place it in the MAC or wherever it would have to go

[principal]

Besides adding Satan to the Catholic conference?

LOL. If UConn joins the only reason I see not to add UC is because XU doesn't like them. But it would increase the intensity and visibility of the rivalry. Other than any negative impact a strong UC has on XU's recruiting, I would have no problem having them in the same conference.

principal

[principal]

UC thinks too highly of its football program to place it in the MAC or wherever it would have to go

Agreed. Though that could eventually change. Regardless, would you otherwise object? Or would you support it?

[XU 87]

While I know it will never happen, what would people here think about the following scenario:

Add: UConn and UC
Drop: DePaul

Again, will never happen as I don't see DePaul leaving willingly and I don't see the Big East pushing out a member. But hypothetically, what do you think? If Duke and UNC tolerate one another, and I would add help improve the league, why not XU and UC in the same league?

principal

Hypothetically, I don't see the BE wanting another Cincinnati team in the conference. The Cincinnati market is covered. I also think that under no circumstances would XU agree to have UC to be in this league.

That said, if UConn comes into the league, it makes sense that one other team joins. I would think that's between UD and SLU. UD has the better program. SLU has the better tv market.

UConn football- doesn't Navy still play hoops in the Patriot League? UConn may try to just play football in the AAC.

[xavierj]

Agreed. Though that could eventually change. Regardless, would you otherwise object? Or would you support it?

I would be OK with it but it won't happen. UC wants football and the league is not booting anyone.

[muskiefan82]

I think the Big East would have to go back to the reason it re-formed itself as it is now. A basketball primary conference. If the BE starts adding teams that want to do football, then aren't they setting themselves up for teams to leave as soon as a better opportunity presents itself? Do we want teams that will look to go to the B12 or ACC as soon as they can? Or should the BE stay as the BEST basketball-centric conference there is?

[OTRMUSKIE]

Absolutely a huge noooooo on UC. VD will never get in the Beast. 11 teams is max for the Beast. VD just needs to stay in the A-10, dominate that league and go to the dance. I think X needs to add VD to the schedule. I would make a deal that we do a 2-1 with them. 2 at x and 1 at US Bank. No way I play up at the Dump.

[blueblob06]

Absolutely a huge noooooo on UC. VD will never get in the Beast. 11 teams is max for the Beast. VD just needs to stay in the A-10, dominate that league and go to the dance. I think X needs to add VD to the schedule. I would make a deal that we do a 2-1 with them. 2 at x and 1 at US Bank. No way I play up at the Dump.

Why would UD agree to that? And I don't mean b/c Dayton hasn't beaten X in Cincinnati since 1981. Just wouldn't make any sense for ANY school to agree to such a one-sided deal. If anything, maybe they'd agree to a "neutral" game at US Bank by itself. Otherwise, I think it'd have to be a true home-and-home for UD to agree.

[xubrew]

Unless TWO teams leave, I'm not for adding anyone . Not UConn, not UD, not UC, and not anyone else.

What we have is good and while I'm all for exploring ways to make it even better, it doesn't take a whole lot of exploring to find that this will not make it better.

[XU 87]

Unless TWO teams leave, I'm not for adding anyone . Not UConn, not UD, not UC, and not anyone else.

What we have is good and while I'm all for exploring ways to make it even better, it doesn't take a whole lot of exploring to find that this will not make it better.

Why don't you think adding UConn would be good for the league?

[GoMuskies]

Adding UConn would be a no-brainer. Of course it would make the league better. More attractive to FS1 (and ESPN) the next time the TV contract is being negotiated, too. And it makes the Big East Tournament at MSG more securely viable long term.

[xubrew]

Why don't you think adding UConn would be good for the league?

I partly explained above.

It will make it harder to get more than half the teams in the tournament. It won't add anything that we don't already have, and it will make the road we currently collectively have to make the NCAA Tournament less wide.

No conference that has ever expanded beyond ten (and really beyond nine) ended up getting a higher percentage of teams in over time after they did it. Not one. Mathematically you need those extra OOC games, and you need to play everyone twice to get the full effect. This eliminates that.

And let's be honest. The current edition of UConn isn't exactly anything to celebrate.

[American X]

UConn has been the best program in the country for two decades.


(MOR's head will explode in 3.2.1....)

[SemajParlor]

I'm not sure where I stand on this. It seems to be an odd fit... they would be a good national add though.

[ammtd34]

I think UConn would be a great program to add to the Big East. Having said that, maybe this is crazy, but as a fan, I'd rather not have 20 (of the 30) regular season games be conference games. I think it's more fun to see a variety of teams (via non-conf scheduling) each year.

If the Big East were 11 teams and everyone played 20 conf games (play each team twice), that leaves 10 games for Xavier to schedule (yes, 11 potentially because of the early-season tournament rule allowing a 31st regular season game).

After scheduling an early season tournament, that accounts for 3 of those 10 games. The Crosstown Shootout is a 4th, and Wake Forest a 5th. We'd only have 5 more games to schedule. In an ideal world, you'd like to continue to have the first 2 games of the year be mid-RPI-level (100 to 200) teams at home to get a feel for the team and get some homes games before the big non-conf games. That would put X up to 7 non-conf games, with only 3 left to schedule against power conference schools.

Just my initial thoughts.

Brew can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the exempt event itself only counted as 1 game.

[xubrew]

Brew can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the exempt event itself only counted as 1 game.

Basically.

If you're in a conference tournament (which now all teams can at least qualify for) you get 29 games in addition to the tournament.

If you're in an exempt tournament and a conference tournament, you get 27 games in addition to those two things. Since you can play up to four games in an exempt event, that comes out to 31 games.

[ammtd34]

Basically.

If you're in a conference tournament (which now all teams can at least qualify for) you get 29 games in addition to the tournament.

If you're in an exempt tournament and a conference tournament, you get 27 games in addition to those two things. Since you can play up to four games in an exempt event, that comes out to 31 games.

Thanks.

[xubrew]

Great move by UConn to probe the Big East's interest in the midst of their shittiest year in recent memory. Kind of makes you wonder if they would've come calling had things been going well. Perhaps their plan is to stay until they're good again, and then try and land somewhere else.

[XUMIOH12]

i'd prefer to see things stay as they are, for the next few years at least.

[XUMIOH12]

I wouldn't be mad about Uconn joining, I just don't think they fit the profile (as a university) that the current BE schools do.

[drudy23]

Their basketball program is good, their football program sucks...sounds like the perfect profile to me.

[MCXU]

I seem to remember back in the day, discussing the pro's and con's of adding teams like Richmond, St. Louis and Charlotte to the A10.

Deep breath.

We are currently having a discussion about whether or not we should accept UCONN and their 4 Nation Titles in the last 20 years.

Deep breath.

God I love the Big East.

[GoMuskies]

We are currently having a discussion about whether or not we should accept UCONN and their 4 Nation Titles in the last 20 years.



And their women's program that is currently on a 100 game win streak (with a celebratory trip to the French Quarter to pick up 101 next).

[muskienick]

Add: UConn and UC
Drop: DePaul

principal

I see nothing totally good about any one of those three scenarios.
1) UConn doesn't fit with the "Private University" characteristic of the Conference but would likely help the Conference's overall profile.
2) The other UC is both Public AND would add fewer additional "media eyes" to TV's and MSG than St. Louis University or University of Richmond.
3) DePaul has generally been an also ran in the Conference for years and fails to draw much interest from its fan base. However, the Blue Demons are getting a brand new home venue for its games and it's still in one of the three biggest media markets in the Country along with being a rich recruiting source. DePaul will remain a member of the Big East for years to come!

I agree with the majority: Either stay at the present 10, or absorb UConn, go with a 20-game round robin, and impose ungodly rigid exit regulations in the event the Huskies are tempted to leave for football purposes.

[muskiefan82]

Adding UC would allow X to get to .500 all time against UC much faster. Currently, X gains 4 wins towards .500 every 10 years (7-3). X could do that in 5 years as a conference member (and faster if they meet in the conf tournament).

That is the ONLY upside to UC being in the BE. Other than that, they can live out their lives in the AAC!

[paulxu]

No conference that has ever expanded beyond ten (and really beyond nine) ended up getting a higher percentage of teams in over time after they did it. Not one. Mathematically you need those extra OOC games, and you need to play everyone twice to get the full effect. This eliminates that.

Would that change if the ACC got 10 in this year? Would be 2/3rds of their teams.
Have they had 2/3rds before?

[xubrew]

Would that change if the ACC got 10 in this year? Would be 2/3rds of their teams.
Have they had 2/3rds before?

Yes. They actually got 7/9 in once, and 6/9 in two or three other times. I think they had 6/8 once as well.

EDIT: It actually happened more than I thought. Since the field went to 64 teams, they got 6/8 in 1986, 1987, 1989, and 1991. They got 6/9 in 1993, 1996, 1997, 2001, and 2004. There were only about three or four years where they got fewer than five.

If they start getting 10/15 teams in with that kind of frequency then I'll concede the point. But, I don't see that happening.

They never did get 7/9 teams. The Big East did, though, in 1991. I knew it had been done and thought it was the ACC that had done it. But, I guess it was us. Well, it was sort of us.

[SemajParlor]

Great move by UConn to probe the Big East's interest in the midst of their shittiest year in recent memory. Kind of makes you wonder if they would've come calling had things been going well. Perhaps their plan is to stay until they're good again, and then try and land somewhere else.

As a quasi Uconn fan, I can tell you that they are in desperation mode. They've already tried at the ACC and Big 12. They need to get out of that awful conference - and fast.

[SemajParlor]

I seem to remember back in the day, discussing the pro's and con's of adding teams like Richmond, St. Louis and Charlotte to the A10.

Deep breath.

We are currently having a discussion about whether or not we should accept UCONN and their 4 Nation Titles in the last 20 years.

Deep breath.

God I love the Big East.

Good point.

[xubrew]

I seem to remember back in the day, discussing the pro's and con's of adding teams like Richmond, St. Louis and Charlotte to the A10.

Deep breath.

We are currently having a discussion about whether or not we should accept UCONN and their 4 Nation Titles in the last 20 years.

Deep breath.

God I love the Big East.

Me too!! I especially love it in its current format.

http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?30173-The-Big-East-Should-Never-Expand-EVER

[paulxu]

Yes. They actually got 7/9 in once, and 6/9 in two or three other times. I think they had 6/8 once as well.

EDIT: It actually happened more than I thought. Since the field went to 64 teams, they got 6/8 in 1986, 1987, 1989, and 1991. They got 6/9 in 1993, 1996, 1997, 2001, and 2004. There were only about three or four years where they got fewer than five.

If they start getting 10/15 teams in with that kind of frequency then I'll concede the point. But, I don't see that happening.

They never did get 7/9 teams. The Big East did, though, in 1991. I knew it had been done and thought it was the ACC that had done it. But, I guess it was us. Well, it was sort of us.

NM...I screwed up and forgot South Carolina left. Don't know how I could possibly forget that.

I guess you'd have to break it all down, but if you had 10 members and got 50%, and went to 14 and got 50%, those extra 2 teams in the dance and the resulting potential money might work.

I do favor the smaller number with the round robin though.

[GoMuskies]

South Carolina left what?

[xubrew]

They had 9 members by 1983 and 10 members by 1992. per Wiki.

I guess you'd have to break it all down, but if you had 10 members and got 50%, and went to 14 and got 50%, those extra 2 teams in the dance and the resulting potential money might work.

I do favor the smaller number with the round robin though.

Who, the ACC or the Big East??

The ACC had eight until Florida State joined in 1992.

You're far more likely to boost the power rankings with ten than with 14, 5-out-of-10 will happen far more frequently than 7-out-of-14 or for that matter 6-out of 12. Just look at the Big Twelve. They're down to ten, and they almost always get more than half of their teams in. Hell, the Big East has gotten half or more in in two out of the three years. I think it only managed to get half or more of the teams in twice since it went beyond ten. They may have done it one more year, but they certainly weren't doing it with regularity the way we are now.

[ChicagoX]

UConn beat writer David Borges tweeted about 30 mins ago:

#UConn AD David Benedict shoots down rumors of school's recent interest in joining Big East.

https://twitter.com/DaveBorges/status/831990465633320961

[xubrew]

UConn beat writer David Borges tweeted about 30 mins ago:

#UConn AD David Benedict shoots down rumors of school's recent interest in joining Big East.

https://twitter.com/DaveBorges/status/831990465633320961

That makes me feel better.

[ChicagoX]

SB Nation also reporting on a statement from UConn's AD:

UConn, Big East deny report that Huskies might be joining the conference (http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/2/15/14628442/uconn-big-east-conference-school-denies)

[coasterville95]

Just remember. Didn't Fr. Graham say that we were staunchly pro A10 right up until the press conference at MSG!

[paulxu]

South Carolina left what?


The ACC had eight until Florida State joined in 1992.

South Carolina left the ACC (1971), which took it to 7 teams for a few years. Georgia Tech joined (1979), they went back to 8, and then to 9 with Florida State.

I edited my post, but you grabbed it quick!! Percentages of teams in is one measuring factor. Total dollars earned in the tournament is another.

[xubrew]

South Carolina left the ACC (1971), which took it to 7 teams for a few years. Georgia Tech joined (1979), they went back to 8, and then to 9 with Florida State.

I edited my post, but you grabbed it quick!! Percentages of teams in is one measuring factor. Total dollars that the individual schools take home in the tournament is another.

Fixed that one for you. It's the old math problem. Three pizzas for four people is more than five pizzas for eight people.

And it doesn't look like there was anything to the UConn rumors.

And the way things are going they may want to kick us out soon.

[paulxu]

Three pizzas for four people is more than five pizzas for eight people.

Only if everyone eats one slice.

[waggy]

UConn belongs in the Big East.

Do it.

[xubrew]

I'm now completely convinced that no one on the administrative level at UConn that actually matters has any interest at all in joining the Big East and that there have been no discussions whatsoever with the Big East about it happening. Take that for what it's worth. But I guess we all got a fun discussion out of it.

[SemajParlor]

No clue about if the BE rumors were made up or what - but Rothstein is a pretty reliable guy when it comes to Northeast hoops. I'll give him the benefit out the doubt.

As far as UConn goes - they are in pure panic mode. It wouldn't surprise me if they have discussed multiple options.

[xubrew]

Had I realized it was Jon Rothstein then I wouldn't have even opened the thread.

This is a guy that has predicted that UConn will win the AAC Tournament this year (which I suppose could still happen but...actually, no, it can't), that Georgia Tech would not win a single ACC game, and that the ACC would get 11 teams in guaranteed, but then also said that 10 ACC conference wins wouldn't guarantee a bid, and...you know I've lost track of all of his nonsense.

He strikes me as a guy that says outrageous things to spark a response. Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact I sometimes enjoy that. But, I wouldn't take any of his inside information seriously.

[SemajParlor]

I don't agree.

[XUMIOH12]

Had I realized it was Jon Rothstein then I wouldn't have even opened the thread.

This is a guy that has predicted that UConn will win the AAC Tournament this year (which I suppose could still happen but...actually, no, it can't), that Georgia Tech would not win a single ACC game, and that the ACC would get 11 teams in guaranteed, but then also said that 10 ACC conference wins wouldn't guarantee a bid, and...you know I've lost track of all of his nonsense.

He strikes me as a guy that says outrageous things to spark a response. Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact I sometimes enjoy that. But, I wouldn't take any of his inside information seriously.

when it comes to reporting on actual college hoops news he has great connections and is pretty reliable. But, when it comes to pretty much anything else he is full of shit, in my opinion at least.

[casualfan]

Had I realized it was Jon Rothstein then I wouldn't have even opened the thread.

This is a guy that has predicted that UConn will win the AAC Tournament this year (which I suppose could still happen but...actually, no, it can't), that Georgia Tech would not win a single ACC game, and that the ACC would get 11 teams in guaranteed, but then also said that 10 ACC conference wins wouldn't guarantee a bid, and...you know I've lost track of all of his nonsense.

He strikes me as a guy that says outrageous things to spark a response. Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact I sometimes enjoy that. But, I wouldn't take any of his inside information seriously.

It did not start with him. It started with Blaudschun (sp?) who is a reporter with deep ties in the Northeast.

Rick also confirmed their is interest on the podcast today.

[xubrew]

It did not start with him. It started with Blaudschun (sp?) who is a reporter with deep ties in the Northeast.

Rick also confirmed their is interest on the podcast today.

Well, when you consider that UConn is denying it I suppose there are still a few possibilities.

1. Someone made it up and UConn denied it when asked to confirm it because it is completely made up.

2. Someone got bad information, or did an awful job of interpreting information, and UConn denied it when asked to confirm it because the information is bad.

3. It's true, bu when asked to confirm it UConn opted to lie and deny it because neither they nor anyone at the Big East want anyone to know, so if this guy was such a great insider he's probably less great now since no one at UConn or the BE will be talking to him anytime soon.

I'm guessing it's some sort of combination of #1 and #2. It could be #3. It's certainly possible. But, I'm reasonably sure that it's not.

[GoMuskies]

It can definitely be any of 1-3, because even if it's completely true UConn has to deny it at this stage.

[AviatorX]

From a basketball standpoint, adding UCONN and going to 20 conference games to keep the round robin is an absolute no brainer right?

[GoMuskies]

From a basketball standpoint, adding UCONN and going to 20 conference games to keep the round robin is an absolute no brainer right?

For everyone but 'brew, yes. Best program in college basketball the last 15 years plus the best single athletic program in the history of college athletics (UConn women's hoops)? Yeah, that's a no-brainer.

[AviatorX]

For everyone but 'brew, yes. Best program in college basketball the last 15 years plus the best single athletic program in the history of college athletics (UConn women's hoops)? Yeah, that's a no-brainer.

Sign me up for UCONN at the Cintas every season. I think Rick hit the nail on the head on the pod -- Xavier is really good at scheduling, but that's despite being in a middle ground where no true blue bloods will schedule home and homes and Xavier won't be bought for those games. Extra conference games, especially against UCONN, make life easier. I'm sure Mario could work wonders with:

3 exempt event games
UC
Wake
3/4 buy games
1/2 home/home with a P5 team

[D-West & PO-Z]

It can definitely be any of 1-3, because even if it's completely true UConn has to deny it at this stage.

Yes.


From a basketball standpoint, adding UCONN and going to 20 conference games to keep the round robin is an absolute no brainer right?

Yes.

[xavierj]

I'm now completely convinced that no one on the administrative level at UConn that actually matters has any interest at all in joining the Big East and that there have been no discussions whatsoever with the Big East about it happening. Take that for what it's worth. But I guess we all got a fun discussion out of it.

I think it is about 75% they join. The American does nothing for them and basketball is their identity. I can see them going MAC or independent for football.

[XUFan09]

when it comes to reporting on actual college hoops news he has great connections and is pretty reliable. But, when it comes to pretty much anything else he is full of shit, in my opinion at least.
Yup. Rothstein is way too positive about different teams. If he had his way, the top 25 would have nearly 40 teams and the tournament would somehow squeeze 90 teams into a 68-team field. However, he has good connections.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

I think it is about 75% they join. The American does nothing for them and basketball is their identity. I can see them going MAC or independent for football.

Joining the Big East and going independent in football would cost them about $4 million a year in revenue. Joining the MAC in football would mean having to play four MAC schools every year in men's and women's basketball as a condition of being an affiliate member, and it would mean walking away from just under $3 million a year in revenue.

I don't think they'd even consider joining the Big East unless they can remain an affiliate football member in the AAC, and not have to give up any revenue sharing. I also don't see the AAC agreeing to that. I mean, as great as UConn football is, I could still see the AAC not wanting to bend over backwards to accomodate them.