Our Biggest Challenge : Landing the Bigs.

[GOX]

We are thriled to be in the Big East
It is a a top conference and Villanova has proven that the conference's best can be the best in the Nation.
We have nothing but upside.
But we have a challenge.
We need to recruit ready to play Bigs.
It seems unless your Top Tier you can't get the 4 and 5 star Bigs. And maybe not the 3 stars.
In the "old days" circa David West, High School players were not appearing at AAU camps and other venues giving them high visibility and exposure. Today it seems there are fewer low visibility, Diamonds in the Rough.
While Farr , Reynolds and Stainbrook fit into that category, I am not sure if they were High School seniors today, the camps would not have polished their games, and the schools that would be recruiting them would be at a higher level than Xavier then recruited against.
Going forward, Xavier has to figure out a way to crack into the market for the Top Bigs.
We all know there the very top of the Big Market is replete with "one and dones".
Kentucky, Duke and a few others will get them.
That is not our market.
But look around the Big East. Who has Bigs you would love to have , that are maybe 2 or 3 and dones, and ask yourself what we need to do to get that type of player.
I say that because you are an Alum, a serious fan, and have ideas as to how to make the program better.
And if you think about it, you may be able to help.

[XMuskieFTW]

The problem is that outside of 5 star bigs, very few bigs are able to contribute immediately. Most of them are projects. Marquette got the #15 center in the 2015 class. As a sophomore he averages 1.7 and 2.3 in 11 mins a game. Butler got the #14 center in the 2016 class. As a freshman he has played 49 minutes and done very little. It's not just a problem for us, but one for pretty much everyone outside of Blue Blood teams. I think Tyrique has exceeded my expectations for him so far this year. I think he's going to be a very very good player in a year or two.

[Juice]

I don't know what everyone's issue with the bigs is. Farr and Reynolds were great last year. This year we have a very serviceable Rashid Gaston, a young and talented Tyrique Jones, and a disappointing O'Mara. We really only need two bigs. Yeah they aren't Reynolds and Farr, but who really is?

X has two new bigs coming in next year along with a guy to play the 4 spot. They've gone after other bigs who have chosen other schools.

[XUFan09]

I don't know what everyone's issue with the bigs is. Farr and Reynolds were great last year. This year we have a very serviceable Rashid Gaston, a young and talented Tyrique Jones, and a disappointing O'Mara. We really only need two bigs. Yeah they aren't Reynolds and Farr, but who really is?

X has two new bigs coming in next year along with a guy to play the 4 spot. They've gone after other bigs who have chosen other schools.

*pines after Taurean Thompson at Syracuse*

But seriously, I'm high on Jones and Ernst. If O'Mara has a revival season more reminiscent of his sophomore campaign, great, but that would probably just be icing on the cake.

[XUGRAD80]

Creighton s center....Patton.....was not offered by any other school, but could well be a lottery pick by the time he is done. Farr was not what anyone would call a real good big man until his senior year, when he started playing more down low. As others have pointed out, many "can't miss" recruits hardly see the floor and/or hardly have any production for the first couple of years, if ever. Players still fall through the cracks and for one reason or another don't shine in the summer camps or on the AAU circuit. Sometimes it's just a matter of being in the right place, at the right time, when it comes to recruiting and that's pretty much luck and hard work. One thing to remember is that with the game being played the way it is today, it's not very often that a high school Big actually has the chance to test his skills against another quality player of similar size. This makes evaluation of his talent and potential even more difficult. Ball handling, shooting, quickness, jumping ability, and physical size are all relatively easy to judge. The heart, drive, and desire of a player to get better, or the amount of growth a kid may experience over a few years, are really really hard to judge. Then you add in the academic, social, and mental aspects of evaluating a potential recruit. Well. Like the man said...."youse pays your money and youse takes your chances". It's a real crapshoot sometimes. Just hope that Lady Luck is on your side from time to time.

[Michigan Muskie]

Deep into the first half, before O'Mara even removed his warmups, he looked downright sad sitting on the bench. Granted, I caught only a glimpse of him as the camera panned by, but he's become the #3 big this year and could possibly be 4th in line next year behind the Jones brothers and Ernst. It wouldn't shock me if Sean pursues an opportunity to play elsewhere unless the transfer rules are too prohibitive.

[bleedXblue]

Deep into the first half, before O'Mara even removed his warmups, he looked downright sad sitting on the bench. Granted, I caught only a glimpse of him as the camera panned by, but he's become the #3 big this year and could possibly be 4th in line next year behind the Jones brothers and Ernst. It wouldn't shock me if Sean pursues an opportunity to play elsewhere unless the transfer rules are too prohibitive.

He's getting opportunities to play and simply cant get it done this year. He can't be mad and/or disappointed with anyone other than himself.

[GOX]

Creighton s center....Patton.....was not offered by any other school, but could well be a lottery pick by the time he is done. Farr was not what anyone would call a real good big man until his senior year, when he started playing more down low. As others have pointed out, many "can't miss" recruits hardly see the floor and/or hardly have any production for the first couple of years, if ever. Players still fall through the cracks and for one reason or another don't shine in the summer camps or on the AAU circuit. Sometimes it's just a matter of being in the right place, at the right time, when it comes to recruiting and that's pretty much luck and hard work. One thing to remember is that with the game being played the way it is today, it's not very often that a high school Big actually has the chance to test his skills against another quality player of similar size. This makes evaluation of his talent and potential even more difficult. Ball handling, shooting, quickness, jumping ability, and physical size are all relatively easy to judge. The heart, drive, and desire of a player to get better, or the amount of growth a kid may experience over a few years, are really really hard to judge. Then you add in the academic, social, and mental aspects of evaluating a potential recruit. Well. Like the man said...."youse pays your money and youse takes your chances". It's a real crapshoot sometimes. Just hope that Lady Luck is on your side from time to time.

All of this is insightful and helpful.
Patton was redshirted so that may be part of the developmental process.
It also is true that coaches who have the skills to develop these projects are the winners.
If one concedes that 2 out of your 5 players are a crapshoot it does temeper your expectations that you are going to have a top 25 team year over year.

[Lamont Sanford]

Deep into the first half, before O'Mara even removed his warmups, he looked downright sad sitting on the bench. Granted, I caught only a glimpse of him as the camera panned by, but he's become the #3 big this year and could possibly be 4th in line next year behind the Jones brothers and Ernst. It wouldn't shock me if Sean pursues an opportunity to play elsewhere unless the transfer rules are too prohibitive.

I can see O'Mara officially retiring his hightops when he graduates after next year. I don't think he truly loves basketball. I doubt he attempts to make a career out of it. I can just as easily see him working at Fifth/Third after he graduates ala Tom Compton. His height has enabled him to get a $100K college degree for free and I think he is perfectly fine with that. Just my two cents from watching him the last three seasons.

[xu82]

I can see O'Mara officially retiring his hightops when he graduates after next year. I don't think he truly loves basketball. I doubt he attempts to make a career out of it. I can just as easily see him working at Fifth/Third after he graduates ala Tom Compton. His height has enabled him to get a $100K college degree for free and I think he is perfectly fine with that. Just my two cents from watching him the last three seasons.

Maybe in some sort of regional position where he's expected to travel on a regular basis?

[ammtd34]

I can see O'Mara officially retiring his hightops when he graduates after next year. I don't think he truly loves basketball. I doubt he attempts to make a career out of it. I can just as easily see him working at Fifth/Third after he graduates ala Tom Compton. His height has enabled him to get a $100K college degree for free and I think he is perfectly fine with that. Just my two cents from watching him the last three seasons.

My cousin did that. He was 6'9", 300 lbs, and a horrible football player. He got his MBA at IU for free. To be fair, I think Sean is a much better basketball player than my cousin was a football player.

[Caf]

The problem is that outside of 5 star bigs, very few bigs are able to contribute immediately. Most of them are projects. Marquette got the #15 center in the 2015 class. As a sophomore he averages 1.7 and 2.3 in 11 mins a game. Butler got the #14 center in the 2016 class. As a freshman he has played 49 minutes and done very little. It's not just a problem for us, but one for pretty much everyone outside of Blue Blood teams. I think Tyrique has exceeded my expectations for him so far this year. I think he's going to be a very very good player in a year or two.

Exactly. Not that we're in a dire situation, but I think we're seeing the results of some projects that didn't turn out as planned. Especially London. Tyrique is at least on, if not ahead of schedule now.

[bleedXblue]

I can see O'Mara officially retiring his hightops when he graduates after next year. I don't think he truly loves basketball. I doubt he attempts to make a career out of it. I can just as easily see him working at Fifth/Third after he graduates ala Tom Compton. His height has enabled him to get a $100K college degree for free and I think he is perfectly fine with that. Just my two cents from watching him the last three seasons.

Edit: 200K college degree

[XUFan09]

Deep into the first half, before O'Mara even removed his warmups, he looked downright sad sitting on the bench. Granted, I caught only a glimpse of him as the camera panned by, but he's become the #3 big this year and could possibly be 4th in line next year behind the Jones brothers and Ernst. It wouldn't shock me if Sean pursues an opportunity to play elsewhere unless the transfer rules are too prohibitive.
I would never try to read O'Mara's facial expressions. He has the same look if he is sitting on the bench after some poor play or if he just put down a momentum-changing dunk lol.

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[xuwin]

I don't know what everyone's issue with the bigs is. Farr and Reynolds were great last year. This year we have a very serviceable Rashid Gaston, a young and talented Tyrique Jones, and a disappointing O'Mara. We really only need two bigs. Yeah they aren't Reynolds and Farr, but who really is?

X has two new bigs coming in next year along with a guy to play the 4 spot. They've gone after other bigs who have chosen other schools.

In the past prior to the Big East Xavier was only able to recruit the small guards and were much more dependent on their big men to rebound. Now that they are in the Big East they have been able to recruit the quality bigger guards and are much less dependent on the big men for defense and rebounding. All of Xavier's guards, except for maybe Quentin, are capable of defending the 3 and 4 positions and are depended on heavily for rebounding. Villanova and Xavier have both shown that you can play on the highest level with a lineup consisting of 4 big guards and one big post man that can protect the rim. Xavier has led the Big East in rebounding most of the year playing mostly one big man at a time. Gates coming on lately as inside help has been a big plus. We will struggle at times against teams that have strong inside games but they in turn will struggle with our speed and athleticism.

[Juice]

I can see O'Mara officially retiring his hightops when he graduates after next year. I don't think he truly loves basketball. I doubt he attempts to make a career out of it. I can just as easily see him working at Fifth/Third after he graduates ala Tom Compton. His height has enabled him to get a $100K college degree for free and I think he is perfectly fine with that. Just my two cents from watching him the last three seasons.

Tom Compton was a walk on.

[SemajParlor]

The game of basketball is continuously changing.

Kaiser Gates was a very good big to land.

[Harryfe]

Sean's line last night in 3 minutes of play. 2 to's and 1 foul

[xufan2434]

In the past prior to the Big East Xavier was only able to recruit the small guards and were much more dependent on their big men to rebound. Now that they are in the Big East they have been able to recruit the quality bigger guards and are much less dependent on the big men for defense and rebounding. All of Xavier's guards, except for maybe Quentin, are capable of defending the 3 and 4 positions and are depended on heavily for rebounding. Villanova and Xavier have both shown that you can play on the highest level with a lineup consisting of 4 big guards and one big post man that can protect the rim. Xavier has led the Big East in rebounding most of the year playing mostly one big man at a time. Gates coming on lately as inside help has been a big plus. We will struggle at times against teams that have strong inside games but they in turn will struggle with our speed and athleticism.

Spot on. And that's exactly the way I'd rather have it. It was so painful when X first joined the Big East to watch their bigs try and defend ball screens especially against someone like Villanova. It's the formula they have to use now to be successful.

Bigs are a complete crap shoot as people have mentioned. Look at the Kareem Adul-Jabbar Award watch list for best center. I've never even heard of 4 of the 10. Sometimes things just click and work for em and sometimes they don't. I still think Sean can produce. A lot of his issues are correctable and mainly out of frustration. Obviously needs to catch the ball first, but the offensive charges are correctable. He also is usually just a hair late on defense and he can't go straight up with his arms causing the fouls. He has shown sparks before and if I remember correctly, Mack even said last year he should be playing Sean more cause the others weren't producing.

Farr had a very frustrating Junior year as well before his Senior year. Things can change

[ammtd34]

Spot on. And that's exactly the way I'd rather have it. It was so painful when X first joined the Big East to watch their bigs try and defend ball screens especially against someone like Villanova. It's the formula they have to use now to be successful.

Bigs are a complete crap shoot as people have mentioned. Look at the Kareem Adul-Jabbar Award watch list for best center. I've never even heard of 4 of the 10. Sometimes things just click and work for em and sometimes they don't. I still think Sean can produce. A lot of his issues are correctable and mainly out of frustration. Obviously needs to catch the ball first, but the offensive charges are correctable. He also is usually just a hair late on defense and he can't go straight up with his arms causing the fouls. He has shown sparks before and if I remember correctly, Mack even said last year he should be playing Sean more cause the others weren't producing.

Farr had a very frustrating Junior year as well before his Senior year. Things can change

I also liked the move he made in the second half when he got called for a travel. He was patient, ball faked to clear, and made a decisive move. I didn't think he traveled, to be honest.

[Xavier]

We are thriled to be in the Big East
It is a a top conference and Villanova has proven that the conference's best can be the best in the Nation.
We have nothing but upside.
But we have a challenge.
We need to recruit ready to play Bigs.

We all know there the very top of the Big Market is replete with "one and dones".
Kentucky, Duke and a few others will get them.
That is not our market.
But look around the Big East. Who has Bigs you would love to have , that are maybe 2 or 3 and dones, and ask yourself what we need to do to get that type of player.
I say that because you are an Alum, a serious fan, and have ideas as to how to make the program better.
And if you think about it, you may be able to help.

Does Villinova have traditional Bigs? I feel like they have a couple undersized guys who are solid down low but can drain from deep. Not sure if they have had a Big thats 2 or 3 and done? I probably am wrong since you mentioned them.

[American X]

I can see O'Mara officially retiring his hightops when he graduates after next year. I don't think he truly loves basketball. I doubt he attempts to make a career out of it. I can just as easily see him working at Fifth/Third after he graduates ala Tom Compton. His height has enabled him to get a $100K college degree for free and I think he is perfectly fine with that. Just my two cents from watching him the last three seasons.


I would never try to read O'Mara's facial expressions. He has the same look if he is sitting on the bench after some poor play or if he just put down a momentum-changing dunk lol.



He is Irish. He does not express emotions.

[Muskie]

He is Irish. He does not express emotions.

Are you quoting the Departed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Chalmers0]

We are thriled to be in the Big East
It is a a top conference and Villanova has proven that the conference's best can be the best in the Nation.
We have nothing but upside.
But we have a challenge.
We need to recruit ready to play Bigs.
It seems unless your Top Tier you can't get the 4 and 5 star Bigs. And maybe not the 3 stars.
In the "old days" circa David West, High School players were not appearing at AAU camps and other venues giving them high visibility and exposure. Today it seems there are fewer low visibility, Diamonds in the Rough.
While Farr , Reynolds and Stainbrook fit into that category, I am not sure if they were High School seniors today, the camps would not have polished their games, and the schools that would be recruiting them would be at a higher level than Xavier then recruited against.
Going forward, Xavier has to figure out a way to crack into the market for the Top Bigs.
We all know there the very top of the Big Market is replete with "one and dones".
Kentucky, Duke and a few others will get them.
That is not our market.
But look around the Big East. Who has Bigs you would love to have , that are maybe 2 or 3 and dones, and ask yourself what we need to do to get that type of player.
I say that because you are an Alum, a serious fan, and have ideas as to how to make the program better.
And if you think about it, you may be able to help.

Just for fun, let's take a quick look around the Big East:

DePaul: Starting a 6'7" white, walk-on at center. Backed up by 2 freshman who have been largely underwhelming. Starting 4 is a respectable, but undersized JuCo transfer. One 3 star, unranked PF recruit inbound.

St. John's: Yakwe and Owens are athletic and block shots but that's about it. Zero post presence from a scoring standpoint and actually pretty horrific defensively other than help-side blocks. Alibegovic and Williams come off the bench and are awful. They are one of the worst rebounding teams in the country. They have no additional big men in their upcoming class and recently lost out on a 3 star unranked big man but do have Marvin Clark who transferred from Michigan State sitting out this year who is not exactly a traditional big either.

Providence: Starting a 6'7" JuCo transfer at center, backed up by a 3-star, unranked freshman who was a late commit. Other than that, they are playing mostly SF's at the 4 and sometimes 5. 2 Centers coming in next year, including 4 star, Top 100 Nate Watson.

Marquette: Luke Fischer might be the highest ranked big man from a recruiting standpoint. Good back to the basket, good shot blocker but not exactly the best laterally and is in constant foul trouble. Backed up by Heldt who was a 3-star with minimal hype. They are playing Katin Reinhardt at the 4 a decent amount who is really a shooting guard, along with Hauser who is also undersized and more of a 3. A pair of unranked 3 star PF recruits coming in.

Seton Hall: Delgado is an absolute ANIMAL down low. Was a 4 star, top 50 kid who has lived up to that hype and then some. They usually play Sanogo or Nzei at the 4. Both are extremely athletic but possess zero actual basketball skill. Rashed Anthony plays minutes for them down low and is also abjectly horrible. 3 Star unranked center incoming next year.

Georgetown: Maybe your best argument for elite big man recruits but what exactly have they done with them? Govan another 4 star, Top 50 guy but has been really good at times and also really horrible at others. Hardly a guy that gives anyone nightmares. Bradley Hayes and Akoy Agau aren't any better. Other highly ranked big men they've brought in like Copeland and White (both transferred) and Derrickson are more stretch 4's. They have no additional big men in their upcoming class

Butler: Chrabacsz is really good, Wideman is serviceable. Both are A10 recruits. Fowler is really their only backup and he's another unranked 3 star who Xavier didn't think was good enough. Brunk is a higher ranked (~ Top 100) big man but even before redshirting for personal reasons he didn't exactly do much. They have no additional big men in their upcoming class.

Creighton: Patton is an NBA lottery pick but as already mentioned in this thread was unranked and also redshirted. Hegner and Hanson are mediocre at best, Krampelj basically never plays, Huff is a stretch 4 who does nothing but shoot 3's. No incoming big men recruits.

Villanova: Reynolds plays most of their minutes at the 5. He is basically in there to rebound and play defense. Other than that, he's pretty terrible. When he comes out they are playing Paschall/Jenkins/Bridges at the 5 who are all really small forwards. Omari Spellman would be a good argument, but he's also not eligible this year. Also have another Top 100 PF coming in next year.



In summary, there is really about 1 big man in the league who I watch play and go "man, I would LOVE if Xavier had him" and that's Delgado. Suffice to say, I'm pretty content with Mack and company bringing in 3 stars or transfers and developing them to complement the stud guards and wings that can succeed in our offense.

[mirabilelectu]

We are thriled to be in the Big East
It is a a top conference and Villanova has proven that the conference's best can be the best in the Nation.
We have nothing but upside.
But we have a challenge.
We need to recruit ready to play Bigs.
It seems unless your Top Tier you can't get the 4 and 5 star Bigs. And maybe not the 3 stars.
In the "old days" circa David West, High School players were not appearing at AAU camps and other venues giving them high visibility and exposure. Today it seems there are fewer low visibility, Diamonds in the Rough.
While Farr , Reynolds and Stainbrook fit into that category, I am not sure if they were High School seniors today, the camps would not have polished their games, and the schools that would be recruiting them would be at a higher level than Xavier then recruited against.
Going forward, Xavier has to figure out a way to crack into the market for the Top Bigs.
We all know there the very top of the Big Market is replete with "one and dones".
Kentucky, Duke and a few others will get them.
That is not our market.
But look around the Big East. Who has Bigs you would love to have , that are maybe 2 or 3 and dones, and ask yourself what we need to do to get that type of player.
I say that because you are an Alum, a serious fan, and have ideas as to how to make the program better.
And if you think about it, you may be able to help.

The rundown of the BEAST big men above is the best refutation of the central question. I would only add that Nova just won a championship with Ochefu, a very good player, but nowhere near the level of talent the OP implies is necessary for success.

[American X]

He is Irish. He does not express emotions.


Are you quoting the Departed?

I am quoting my life married to Lady X.

[Juice]

Does Villinova have traditional Bigs? I feel like they have a couple undersized guys who are solid down low but can drain from deep. Not sure if they have had a Big thats 2 or 3 and done? I probably am wrong since you mentioned them.

They do have Omari Spellman who wasdeclared ineligible this year. He's a 5 star, 6'9'' freshman.

[markchal]

In summary, there is really about 1 big man in the league who I watch play and go "man, I would LOVE if Xavier had him" and that's Delgado. Suffice to say, I'm pretty content with Mack and company bringing in 3 stars or transfers and developing them to complement the stud guards and wings that can succeed in our offense.

Good post, but I think I'd take Patton in a heartbeat as well.

[Muskie]

Good post, but I think I'd take Patton in a heartbeat as well. I would take Patton as well.

[Chalmers0]

I would take Patton as well.

Yup, really just an oversight on my last paragraph, obviously would take Patton as well.

[IM4X]

I also liked the move he made in the second half when he got called for a travel. He was patient, ball faked to clear, and made a decisive move. I didn't think he traveled, to be honest.

Sean has gotten a raw deal from BE refs in several games... I have replayed a number of the fouls called against Sean only to discover they were in fact blown calls. It's as if some of these BE refs are like, "I didn't really get a good angle so my safest bet is to call it against the big white dude who just came off the bench."

Sean has shown he can be a solid big. He needs to keep working on his footwork and getting in better position for rebounds,
but I can see him being key to the success of this team in some future games.

[paulxu]

I feel like I've been asleep for 4 years and just woke up in the middle of a Kenny Frease thread.

[xu82]

I feel like I've been asleep for 4 years and just woke up in the middle of a Kenny Frease thread.

That feels more like 40 years!

[X-band '01]

I feel like I've been asleep for 4 years and just woke up in the middle of a Kenny Frease thread.

Are you going to go outside and run like an airplane?

[BandAid]

Are you going to go outside and run like an airplane?

Hahaha! Oh, I miss that