Xavier vs. Georgetown (January 22, 2017) Big East Game #7

[American X]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2752.png&h=150&w=150http://image.chatsports.com/logo_thumbs/georgetown-hoyas.jpg

Xavier Musketeers vs. Georgetown Generic Mascots
January 22, 2017

Game Time: 2:00 p.m. ET
Cintas Center | Cincinnati, Oho
TV: CBS (seriously? why?)
RADIO: 700WLW (https://www.iheart.com/live/700wlw-1713/?autoplay=true&pname=1209&campid=header&cid=index.html)

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)
Live Stats (http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)

[paulxu]

Pivot day. 1/3 of conference play over.
Myles saga done.
Time to play team ball...for 40 minutes.
We'll see what this group really has.

It can still be a great season.

[XfansinKy]

I'm thinking Rashid, Sean, and Tyrique, will set some nice picks for Tre today and he will have his best game ever with 25-30 points. Even though he's slow and can't jump, when his feet are set, shoulders square, and doesn't have a hand in his face, Tre shoots the ball possibly better than any small forward in college basketball. Because he's too slow to be an effective post scorer with his style of play and power post moves, I would love to see Sean take on the role of the guy who sets teeth rattling picks for our shooters, crashes the boards like a madman, and knocks people out of the way diving for loose balls. Every great team has that guy and Sean is definitely built for it. Also considering that Kaiser Gates is looking like he's healthy the way he's bending his knees and moving, this team can still be just as good as predicted. Getting the ball into Rashid more and rewarding him for playing so hard would be great. He's obviously not as athletic but looks bigger and stronger than Jalen. Get him the ball. He held his own against Creighton's seven footer but was just gassed at the end and couldn't slam the putback in for the W.

[bigdiggins]

I'm thinking Rashid, Sean, and Tyrique, will set some nice picks for Tre today and he will have his best road game ever with 25-30 points. Even though he's slow and can't jump, when his feet are set, shoulders square, and doesn't have a hand in his face, Tre shoots the ball possibly better than any small forward in college basketball. Because he's too slow to be an effective post scorer with his style of play and power post moves, I would love to see Sean take on the role of the guy who sets teeth rattling picks for our shooters, crashes the boards like a madman, and knocks people out of the way diving for loose balls. Every great team has that guy and Sean is definitely built for it. Also considering that Kaiser Gates is looking like he's healthy the way he's bending his knees and moving, this team can still be just as good as predicted. Getting the ball into Rashid more and rewarding him for playing so hard would be great. He's obviously not as athletic but looks bigger and stronger than Jalen. Get him the ball. He held his own against Creighton's seven footer but was just gassed at the end and couldn't slam the putback in for the W.

I would be stunned to see him play his best road game ever at home.

[profson]

I am in Europe and so FoxGo and iHeart won't work. Any alternatives that won't blow up my computer/iPhone?

[XfansinKy]

I would be stunned to see him play his best road game ever at home.

Haha your right. IDK why I said road game. Ill have to correct that.

[paulxu]

Game on CBS, on a Sunday.
Should get some eyeballs.
Big fall off when Packers/Falcons kick off at 3.

[bleedXblue]

Game on CBS, on a Sunday.
Should get some eyeballs.
Big fall off when Packers/Falcons kick off at 3.

they play at 1:00 today

[xudash]

they play at 1:00 today

We're showing 2pm here.

[XUMIOH12]

they play at 1:00 today

everywhere i've seen says 2

[XUMIOH12]

they play at 1:00 today

The graphic Chris Mack sends out says 2pm.

[XUMIOH12]

they play at 1:00 today

you must be in central time

[Emp]

What, no revenge talk after (until recently) our last home loss on 1-19-16? The betting lines all moving in favor of Xavier. I smell a trap game.

Please no.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think you can have a trap game when you're on a three game losing streak. Xavier desperately needs to win this one.

[Muskie]

After the way GT played us in DC, I'd hope this team would be up for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Lloyd Braun]

X rolls today.... if Tre doesn't bounce back I will officially be concerned. I want more Tyrique (if healthy),more Q as they bring good energy. I know it won't happen but I would love to see JP come off the bench. This is the perfect game to do that. Start a streak!

[THRILLHOUSE]

What, no revenge talk after (until recently) our last home loss on 1-19-16? The betting lines all moving in favor of Xavier. I smell a trap game.

Please no.

Last years win at Cintas is also the last big east road win for the Hoyas.

[HenryMuto]

This team needed to make noise last year and get to the final 4. This year without all the players they lost they have little chance to make that kind of run. Losing JR was huge. He should not have left. I will never understand non lottery guys leaving early.

[Lloyd Braun]

This team needed to make noise last year and get to the final 4. This year without all the players they lost they have little chance to make that kind of run. Losing JR was huge. He should not have left. I will never understand non lottery guys leaving early.

Jalen didn't leave early. He is now 24 years old. Time to make some cash.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I am in Europe and so FoxGo and iHeart won't work. Any alternatives that won't blow up my computer/iPhone?

cbs.com through your TV provider.

Or you can do a free 1 week trial for their all cbs access.

[XUFan09]

This team needed to make noise last year and get to the final 4. This year without all the players they lost they have little chance to make that kind of run. Losing JR was huge. He should not have left. I will never understand non lottery guys leaving early.
I think Jalen is enjoying his nice income in Europe for just playing basketball.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

This team needed to make noise last year and get to the final 4. This year without all the players they lost they have little chance to make that kind of run. Losing JR was huge. He should not have left. I will never understand non lottery guys leaving early.

Why would he want to stay. I fully understand fans wanting him to stay but why would Jalen? Another year wasnt going to make him an NBA player. He had his degree and wanted to go make money in his field (basketball). What is the problem?

[Xville]

This team is dysfunctional right now...what exactly is the offensive gameplan right now? It looks like a grade school set.

[Caf]

This team is dysfunctional right now...what exactly is the offensive gameplan right now? It looks like a grade school set.

Give Gtown a little credit. They're playing smothering D right now. Foul trouble will start to catch up with them soon.

[X Factor]

So hard to watch this team right now. They look like they've never played with eachother before.

[Xville]

Give Gtown a little credit. They're playing smothering D right now. Foul trouble will start to catch up with them soon.

Yeah lets give that powerhouse 10-9 1-5 team some credit.

X can right the ship but they are the reason they are suckijg ass early in the game

[GreatWhiteNorth]

X is playing pretty good defence, but the offence is not. Turnovers and poor shooting continue.

[Caf]

Yeah lets give that powerhouse 10-9 1-5 team some credit.

X can right the ship but they are the reason they are suckijg ass early in the game

God almighty you are negative.

[X Factor]

God almighty you are negative.

I think it's obvious to everyone but you this team is struggling on offense.

[D-West & PO-Z]

God almighty you are negative.

Yes, only a matter of time until he declares the game is over and stops watching.

[X Factor]

Ed is not a good finisher. Didn't even hit rim on that layup...

[Xville]

Yes, only a matter of time until he declares the game is over and stops watching.

I call it like i see it. When they start playing well, ill call that too.

[X Factor]

Trevon airball three

[D-West & PO-Z]

I call it like i see it. When they start playing well, ill call that too.

Hard to see it when you dont watch a third of the game.

[mistabeecee41]

Team summary, last 3.5 games

Can't shoot 3s
Can't shoot FTs
Can't make layups
Can't hold onto the ball

[X Factor]

We don't value the ball

and JP is shooting less than 70% from the FT line in conference play?? Another mental issue.

[Xville]

Hard to see it when you dont watch a third of the game.

Zing!

[xudash]

The Lost Boys.

[BandAid]

Bernard might be our best player right now.

[X Factor]

Bernard might be our best player right now.

a guy who played on one of the worst Div I teams in the country last year...

[X Factor]

Trevon last shot of the half???? What was that?

[AviatorX]

Trevon last shot of the half???? What was that?

Do we not want him trying to get to the rim? Shooting jumpers hasn't been going great.

[X Factor]

Do we not want him trying to get to the rim? Shooting jumpers hasn't been going great.

Yes, but getting to and finishing around the rim is not exactly his best skill set, and it showed on that attempt.

[Caf]

Trevon is now 9 for 41 from 3 in Big East play.

[xu82]

Yes, but getting to and finishing around the rim is not exactly his best skill set, and it showed on that attempt.


But it could get him to the FT line.....so maybe that's still not a great idea.

[paulxu]

Sometimes this team can break my heart.
I know we're up at the half, but I just see the potential and want to start throwing things.
If we could ever get our FT's to 80%, get our 3's to 30%, and stop making sloppy passes we'd be so friggin much better.
Need to drink some bourbon.

[AviatorX]

Coach Mack with a nod to those saying X doesn't run enough sets to get Trevon going here early 2nd half.

[Xville]

Much better offense coming out of the half...liking it!

[Xville]

Macura! Wow

[X Factor]

Macura is balling right now

[X Factor]

Offense grinds to a halt again.

[paulxu]

Wish Gates would drive some instead of just passing.

[X Factor]

Trevon and his patented step back jumper...he's so off right now.

[HenryMuto]

Letting them back in the game instead of curb stomping them when up 12.

[Caf]

Give Gtown a little credit. They're playing smothering D right now. Foul trouble will start to catch up with them soon.

bump

[D-West & PO-Z]

Trevon 7/15 and 3/6 from 3.

19 points

[AviatorX]

Trevon 7/15 and 3/6 from 3.

19 points

Game really opens up when he tries to drive and create. Love it.

[Xville]

Much better offense in 2nd half...team needed this badly.

[skyking]

Great to see us back to being a second half team.

[AviatorX]

Call me crazy but for some reason I really feel like X is going to impress on Thursday night. No idea why.

[skyking]

Winning this game on free throws. Whoda thunk?

[Caf]

45 FTs for X. That is remarkable.

[XUMIOH12]

all the fouling and scoring at the end ruined my pick the score prediction

[XUMIOH12]

all the fouling and scoring at the end ruined my pick the score prediction

aside from that, pretty solid game overall

[sirthought]

Great win for the Muskies.

I really like the effort they put out in this game. They still seem to lack focus too often, but coach pushing them to be more aggressive is helping.

I am not a particular Georgetown fan. I never watch their games unless they play XU or Cincinnati. But they do actually have a lot of really nice players that I could see fitting in well on XU's team. Can't understand why that program continues to fall short.

[XUMIOH12]

Great win for the Muskies.

I really like the effort they put out in this game. They still seem to lack focus too often, but coach pushing them to be more aggressive is helping.

I am not a particular Georgetown fan. I never watch their games unless they play XU or Cincinnati. But they do actually have a lot of really nice players that I could see fitting in well on XU's team. Can't understand why that program continues to fall short.

coaching

[Backyard Champ]

Yep, Thompson is a bad coach. Georgetown is a bad team. They may steal a win or so here and there, but as long as Thompson is there, I expect them to stay at the bottom half of the league.

Also, it was good to get a win, but did we have two different 6 minute stretches without a field goal made? I realize that has some to do with fouling and free throw attempts, but that can't continue.

Rebounding was great, how many offensive boards did we give up? 1?

[bobbiemcgee]

Tweets


David West ‏@D_West30 33m

Good Win XU!

[scoscox]

Great win for the Muskies.

I really like the effort they put out in this game. They still seem to lack focus too often, but coach pushing them to be more aggressive is helping.

I am not a particular Georgetown fan. I never watch their games unless they play XU or Cincinnati. But they do actually have a lot of really nice players that I could see fitting in well on XU's team. Can't understand why that program continues to fall short.

I don't think they utilize their size well, but also their point guard play is pretty bad.

Agreed, good win for X, but just need to maintain focus through a complete game. Like more and more what Tyrique is doing and Goodin as well. Malcolm playing well. Edmond looking more and more like a great point guard with every game.

[xu82]

OK, back on track. Hold serve at home and steal a few on the road. Peak at the right time. I have a vision of how this can be glorious after a rough stretch. (Sometimes I wake up right before it's expected to get really good, so no guarantees.)

[xuwin]

Great win for the Muskies.

I really like the effort they put out in this game. They still seem to lack focus too often, but coach pushing them to be more aggressive is helping.

I am not a particular Georgetown fan. I never watch their games unless they play XU or Cincinnati. But they do actually have a lot of really nice players that I could see fitting in well on XU's team. Can't understand why that program continues to fall short.

No quality big men this year.

[bigdiggins]

Haha your right. IDK why I said road game. Ill have to correct that.

You were correct about him playing well though.

[xukeith]

Ugly game. X was so spread out offensively passing ball around the circle with no post players.
UGLY but a win againgst a poor BE team.

UC has not played a team like us at home so X better rebound, make all FTs and limit TO's to 10.

[XUFan09]

Ugly game. X was so spread out offensively passing ball around the circle with no post players.
UGLY but a win againgst a poor BE team.

UC has not played a team like us at home so X better rebound, make all FTs and limit TO's to 10.
Being spread out is a good thing. It creates driving lanes, the kind of spaces that Ed, Quentin, Malcolm, and even J.P. and Bluiett took advantage of. The ball rotation and screens around the perimeter also created mismatches that the perimeter players could exploit.

This is not Matt Stainbrook's team. It's not even a team with a Kenny Frease, a James Farr, or a Travis Taylor. This year's bigs do contribute on the offensive end, but they are not nearly as prolific.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[xudash]

I thought Paul nailed it earlier:

1. Improve concentration and reduce the truly egregious turnovers.

2. Improve the FT performance; lose the jitters & cobwebs there.

3. Ratchet up the performance behind the arc.

Maybe this is all obvious, but imagine if they start clicking in these areas at least to some meaningful degree. That would reduce the level of indigestion around here.

[xu82]

I thought Paul nailed it earlier:

1. Improve concentration and reduce the truly egregious turnovers.

2. Improve the FT performance; lose the jitters & cobwebs there.

3. Ratchet up the performance behind the arc.

Maybe this is all obvious, but imagine if they start clicking in these areas at least to some meaningful degree. That would reduce the level of indigestion around here.

But the Tums stock would plummet! (I'm OK with that.)

[paulxu]

I thought Paul nailed it earlier:

1. Improve concentration and reduce the truly egregious turnovers.

2. Improve the FT performance; lose the jitters & cobwebs there.

3. Ratchet up the performance behind the arc.

Maybe this is all obvious, but imagine if they start clicking in these areas at least to some meaningful degree. That would reduce the level of indigestion around here.

I remain convinced those are the things we need to focus on, and play as a team.
Saw some great signs of this in some moments of the game today.
Will need a LOT of them to really make this a great year.

[XUFan09]

Concerning turnovers, I like that the team went from turning the ball over 4 times in the first 12 possessions to turning it over just 6 times in the remaining 60. They did a good job of getting under control after a careless start.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Caf]

This is not Matt Stainbrook's team. It's not even a team with a Kenny Frease, a James Farr, or a Travis Taylor. This year's bigs do contribute on the offensive end, but they are not nearly as prolific.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I would like to look into this more, but I think O'Mara/Jones/Gaston play a lot lower in the post than our previous bigs. This makes it harder for guards to get them the ball and drive towards the basket or make backdoor cuts.

[Juice]

I would like to look into this more, but I think O'Mara/Jones/Gaston play a lot lower in the post than our previous bigs. This makes it harder for guards to get them the ball and drive towards the basket or make backdoor cuts.

Yeah but they're down there because it puts them into position to score.

[vee4xu]

Talked with several people at halftime and consensus is that something's wrong, but can't put a finger on it. Not sure what it is, but things are just not quite right overall. These were separate conversations without me prompting.

[XUFan09]

Yeah but they're down there because it puts them into position to score.
Yeah, they aren't really the type that can score in both the high post and low post on a regular basis. Maybe an action here and there, but that's about it.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[waggy]

Talked with several people at halftime and consensus is that something's wrong, but can't put a finger on it. Not sure what it is, but things are just not quite right overall. These were separate conversations without me prompting.


Wisconsin style loss can cause problems if there was disagreement on the way things were managed. Coaches aren't perfect.

Zero inside knowledge. Total swag on my part.

[Xville]

Talked with several people at halftime and consensus is that something's wrong, but can't put a finger on it. Not sure what it is, but things are just not quite right overall. These were separate conversations without me prompting.

One problem i think is that we dont have a consistently good post player. Gaston is average and shows flashes of brilliance but all in all he is just ok. Omara is an enigma to me...thought hed take a atep forward and he just hasnt.

Second, and this is jist me thinking out loud..i wonder if there is a chemistry issue on this team? Maybe a sumner, tre, jp faction and then everyone else...just a thought. Not saying ita a fact, but it definitely feels like something is off.

Third, I like Mack as a person and think hes a decent coach...im just going to leave it at that. I have just never been fully sold on him. Miller, i was all-in, Mack not as much.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The traveling at the top when making a move is the most infuriating to me. I'm not convinced the refs are calling it correctly every time but we have at least 2 or 3 of those every game it seems like. That needs to be addressed. Dont make a move with your feet before dribbling the ball!

[xu82]

The traveling at the top when making a move is the most infuriating to me. I'm not convinced the refs are calling it correctly every time but we have at least 2 or 3 of those every game it seems like. That needs to be addressed. Dont make a move with your feet before dribbling the ball!

I think every team does that at least a half dozen times a game without a call. They catch and shuffle, shuffle. It's just ignored. As a side note, do you know what it's called when you touch the ball while it's in the cylinder? A dunk? Good guess. Goaltending? Correct answer. Have the rules ever been adjusted to allow for that?

[XUFan09]

One problem i think is that we dont have a consistently good post player. Gaston is average and shows flashes of brilliance but all in all he is just ok.

I'll grant you some consistency issues, but I'd hardly call Gaston average on offense, unless you mean "Big East average." Even then, he has the third best offensive rebounding percentage in the entire country.

The problem is that he's not dynamic like Farr, Reynolds, or Stainbrook were. Efficient on a fairly high usage rate, sure, but he is more limited in where he can score and what he can do offensively. He's really strong, though, and thus does a good job at still sealing his man in the low block, so it would be nice to see him get a few more touches. Actually, he looked frustrated on a couple of occasions in this game where he was in good position and wasn't given the ball.

[X-Fan]

Talked with several people at halftime and consensus is that something's wrong, but can't put a finger on it. Not sure what it is, but things are just not quite right overall. These were separate conversations without me prompting.
I've been saying this all season. The most glaring thing is the drop off on offense from last season. This team has no flow on offense. Last year, Mack did a great job running sets that would maximize each players strength. I don't see nearly as much of that this year.

[X-man]

Talked with several people at halftime and consensus is that something's wrong, but can't put a finger on it. Not sure what it is, but things are just not quite right overall. These were separate conversations without me prompting.

I think the big problem for our offense starts with the fact that we don't really have much interior offense. Our three bigs don't have any go-to moves to score near he basket, nor have they shown much ability to get open and be able to catch passes from the perimeter. This forces our offense to be perimeter based, either with a drive and kick or perimeter pass and shoot. Frankly right now our team looks a lot like a Prosser coached team, at least to me, and that is not an effective way to score unless someone is hot. Sadly, I don't much likelihood that this issue will go away for this team.

[Drew's Crew]

Third, I like Mack as a person and think hes a decent coach...im just going to leave it at that. I have just never been fully sold on him. Miller, i was all-in, Mack not as much.

Glad to see our expectations aren't totally ridiculous. Man, some people are so spoiled with success it's incredible.

http://goxavier.com/news/2016/3/29/mens-basketball-chris-mack-selected-for-a-third-major-national-coach-of-the-year-award.aspx

[mirabilelectu]

I think the big problem for our offense starts with the fact that we don't really have much interior offense. Our three bigs don't have any go-to moves to score near he basket, nor have they shown much ability to get open and be able to catch passes from the perimeter. This forces our offense to be perimeter based, either with a drive and kick or perimeter pass and shoot. Frankly right now our team looks a lot like a Prosser coached team, at least to me, and that is not an effective way to score unless someone is hot. Sadly, I don't much likelihood that this issue will go away for this team.

I agree with all of the posts thus far; bigs aren't very dynamic so they don't draw double teams the few times a game they even get the ball. Not only that, but outside of O'Mara's errant pass yesterday, I can't remember either of them really looking to kick it back out. When the post gets it, they are looking to score, not necessarily facilitate which was something Farr did really well and Jalen at least tried to do on occasion. IMO, the bigger problem is the spacing (and that has to do with the bigs too, so not necessarily a separate issue), everyone on the team is pretty on dimensional. That statement might be reductionist but it's true to an extent; JP is really our most dynamic scorer because people have to honor his shot and he is a little bit quicker than Tre, so he can get into the lane (thought his teardrops today were nice, need to see more of those). Tre made an effort to get to the rack today so maybe he will prove my previous statement wrong, but for the greater part of this season he has been a spot up shooter, and even when he drives he isn't quick enough to consistently beat his man. Ed is not really a threat of any distance; he's good for about one midrange and one three point attempt per game (also, this might not be popular and might be his injury, but he has had some trouble finishing shots that we NEED him to make at the cup). Insert those players into an offense that is predicated a lot (at least the way we've been running it) on single matchups and it results in very inconsistent results. We lack someone who can create his own shot (Tre has really been struggling with his base-line fader), and thus create space for the other guys on the team.

I am a bit encouraged by the way the offense ran yesterday; they reduced turnovers, hit JP on some curls in the key, found spacing on the baselines a couple of times. But things need to keep improving if we are going to compete with very good teams; they rate at which we get to the line will keep us in most games, but we need to start finishing (we did pretty well yesterday!) there to widen margins.

[Lloyd Braun]

Farr was a stretch big, Gaston and OMara aren't, so the lane is crowded. Refs love calling the charge. X is not a great or even good 3 pt shooting team. Put all those facts together and tell me how this offense is going to significantly improve without changing the lineup. Even if our bigs command the double team the guy on the perimeter still has to make the shot. My armchair QB opinion is they should try to significantly pick up the pace and bring JP off the bench to keep the pace. I actually think this would decrease all the turnovers in the half court, which drives me freaking insane. Ed is one of the fastest guys in CBB, pounding it in the post is just not a good play.

[bleedXblue]

This team for sure has an identity issue. I think Mack thought they were going to shoot it much better and now Myles is gone compounding the issue. The post play has been all over the place. He's just searching for answers at this point and hoping to see some improvement. I don't disagree that picking up the tempo some would be interesting to see.......but their style of play on the defensive end isn't going to help that at all. I think Mack is stuck right now with very few options to look at to change things considerably.

[Masterofreality]

One problem i think is that we dont have a consistently good post player. Gaston is average and shows flashes of brilliance but all in all he is just ok. Omara is an enigma to me...thought hed take a atep forward and he just hasnt.

Second, and this is jist me thinking out loud..i wonder if there is a chemistry issue on this team? Maybe a sumner, tre, jp faction and then everyone else...just a thought. Not saying ita a fact, but it definitely feels like something is off.

Third, I like Mack as a person and think hes a decent coach...im just going to leave it at that. I have just never been fully sold on him. Miller, i was all-in, Mack not as much.

First of all, I believe that there has been a bit of a chemistry issue with these guys in game, not off court. That is why CMack closed practice on Saturday and had a number of alumni players come in to it. They were trying to help get these guys to trust each other more and get off the "me". There has been too much "showing off for scouts" rather than just playing good solid team basketball. For example, and Tre Bluiett is NOT a problem, but he is much more effective as a shooter when spotting up and feet set. He's been trying to do too much "NBA Camp" shoot on the move/drive stuff and I believe that is a result of what the NBA Camp guys told him that he had to display to make the show. Ed to a lesser extent because rather than looking to score, he's been trying to do more facilitating which is taking his game away a bit- especially early in games. JP just needs to stop with the boneheaded plays, jacking 3's from 80 feet and ill advised drives that take the team out of its rhythm. Again, I don't think he's selfish, but just wants to put the team on his shoulders as the stopper.

As to CMack, stop it already. If you want to criticize, you could criticize some of his personnel decisions lately like taking Quentin Goodin over Kobi Simmons or letting a kid like Brandon Randolph go, but you can't blame him for losing Jalen, James Farr, or Myles. Malcolm Bernard has been a breath of fresh air replacing Remy. Our young bench just has to get better too, through experience.

[AviatorX]

Glad to see our expectations aren't totally ridiculous. Man, some people are so spoiled with success it's incredible.

http://goxavier.com/news/2016/3/29/mens-basketball-chris-mack-selected-for-a-third-major-national-coach-of-the-year-award.aspx

Yeah, I really am starting to think last season Xavier got so good so quickly that it threw perspective off a bit. I think everyone had the definite sense that the program was on the rise big time but last season certainly expedited things. We are still living through one of the best regular seasons X has ever had right now, especially in the Mack era. I think if people go back and look at Xavier teams up through Jan. 23 they'll realize that. This isn't Kansas, Duke, Kentucky or UNC (...yet).

[bleedXblue]

Yeah, I really am starting to think last season Xavier got so good so quickly that it threw perspective off a bit. I think everyone had the definite sense that the program was on the rise big time but last season certainly expedited things. We are still living through one of the best regular seasons X has ever had right now, especially in the Mack era. I think if people go back and look at Xavier teams up through Jan. 23 they'll realize that. This isn't Kansas, Duke, Kentucky or UNC (...yet).

And I think we remain ranked b/c of some of this. Does anyone really think we're a Top 25 team right now? We have very few quality wins.....and of course no really bad losses either.

[AviatorX]

And I think we remain ranked b/c of some of this. Does anyone really think we're a Top 25 team right now? We have very few quality wins.....and of course no really bad losses either.

Well, we'll see when the polls come out today, but IMO if you look at the teams who have been ranked 24 or 25 the last few weeks and especially the top teams in "others receiving votes", then yes Xavier is better than them and probably a top 25 team. I don't think it matters though.

No question X is ranked because of where they started right now.

[Muskie]

And I think we remain ranked b/c of some of this. Does anyone really think we're a Top 25 team right now? We have very few quality wins.....and of course no really bad losses either. Right now we're the 4th or 5th best team in the Big East, with narrow losses to Creighton and Butler in the past week. Most years, your're ranked with that resume.

[mirabilelectu]

Farr was a stretch big, Gaston and OMara aren't, so the lane is crowded. Refs love calling the charge. X is not a great or even good 3 pt shooting team. Put all those facts together and tell me how this offense is going to significantly improve without changing the lineup. Even if our bigs command the double team the guy on the perimeter still has to make the shot. My armchair QB opinion is they should try to significantly pick up the pace and bring JP off the bench to keep the pace. I actually think this would decrease all the turnovers in the half court, which drives me freaking insane. Ed is one of the fastest guys in CBB, pounding it in the post is just not a good play.

I agree, the team and offense as constituted presently will only get better if they can somehow start shooting better or find some new personnel matches, but idk how that will happen. Picking up the tempo at least occasionally would be a nice change of pace. My heart raced, then dropped, a few times yesterday when Ed and Q got out ahead of most of the Gtown defenders and slowed the ball down. We got a lot of good looks in transition last year both at the cup in transition. I know our offense cannot be predicated upon that, especially because our guards and small wings do a good amount of the rebounding, but we don't seem like we try to capitalize on some of the transition opportunities.

[xuwin]

Being spread out is a good thing. It creates driving lanes, the kind of spaces that Ed, Quentin, Malcolm, and even J.P. and Bluiett took advantage of. The ball rotation and screens around the perimeter also created mismatches that the perimeter players could exploit.

This is not Matt Stainbrook's team. It's not even a team with a Kenny Frease, a James Farr, or a Travis Taylor. This year's bigs do contribute on the offensive end, but they are not nearly as prolific.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Xavier's offense depends heavily on Ed's ability to penetrate the middle of the opponents defense especially when they go into their zone. His shoulder injury is hampering his ability to do that. He gets beat up quite a bit and it seems like he has been saving it for the last 10 minutes of the games and then he goes balls to the wall.

[XU 87]

Xavier is still 15th in RPI.

[xufan2434]

And I think we remain ranked b/c of some of this. Does anyone really think we're a Top 25 team right now? We have very few quality wins.....and of course no really bad losses either.

I keep saying that to myself as well. And I don't expect them to be ranked when they come out today. But then again, Seth Davis still had em at 22 last night which I couldn't believe. Not that I like him, but thought he would have been the first to drop them from the rankings. So we'll see.

[GoMuskies]

KenPom says #27 and Sagarin says #25. I think those are about right. Being the 25th best team isn't bad, but it's not great either. Kind of like this team so far.

[AviatorX]

In the last few years as voters have posted their ballots/reasoning to Twitter more often, it's even more clear that the polls are so stupid (national recognition, etc. aside, but I'd argue XU is past the point of only being on the radar when ranked). Seth Davis and Rick Bozich are two that post their ballots every week, and clearly put about 5 minutes of thought into the rankings. I mean, Davis keeps #25 exclusively for a small conference team he feels deserves a shoutout. The polls are dumb.

[XU 87]

KenPom says #27 and Sagarin says #25. I think those are about right. Being the 25th best team isn't bad, but it's not great either. Kind of like this team so far.

I would agree with you that KenPom and Sagarin are probably more accurate, but I think the NCAA Committee still uses RPI more than those two, or at least gives RPI more weight.

Brew, am I right or wrong?

[GoMuskies]

I was definitely going for a gauge of how good the team actually is. Don't disagree that RPI is interesting for NCAA Tournament purposes, but I think that's the only thing it is useful for.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I was definitely going for a gauge of how good the team actually is. Don't disagree that RPI is interesting for NCAA Tournament purposes, but I think that's the only thing it is useful for.

Which is really the only things that matters.

I agree the others seem to paint a more accurate picture of where teams rank but if RPI is more important for seeding I'd rather be ranked better there.

[GoMuskies]

Don't disagree. But I don't think we're talking about where we should be seeded (as it is January 23rd). Rather, I think we're talking about how good this team is or is not.

[scoscox]

As to CMack, stop it already. If you want to criticize, you could criticize some of his personnel decisions lately like taking Quentin Goodin over Kobi Simmons or letting a kid like Brandon Randolph go, but you can't blame him for losing Jalen, James Farr, or Myles. Malcolm Bernard has been a breath of fresh air replacing Remy. Our young bench just has to get better too, through experience.

Did we really take Quentin straight up over Kobi? I was under the impression he wasn't a realistic target.

[AviatorX]

Did we really take Quentin straight up over Kobi? I was under the impression he wasn't a realistic target.

No. Don't think Chris Mack is in the business of actively choosing to not take on future NBA guards. That is definitely not how it happened. Kobi is very good friends with Kaiser, so X was definitely in the running but it wasn't like if Xavier passed on Q Kobi was just going to show up on campus.

[XUMIOH12]

Did we really take Quentin straight up over Kobi? I was under the impression he wasn't a realistic target.

He was a realistic target, but Goodin was ready to commit, so Mack took the sure thing.

[Juice]

I would agree with you that KenPom and Sagarin are probably more accurate, but I think the NCAA Committee still uses RPI more than those two, or at least gives RPI more weight.

Brew, am I right or wrong?

They've announced they are moving away from it. They either already held it or will hold a conference with several speakers which include Sagarin and Pomeroy to explain advanced statistics to the committee members.

[Masterofreality]

He was a realistic target, but Goodin was ready to commit, so Mack took the sure thing.

This is accurate, but Kobi definitely had a leaning to come here with Kaiser. There was concern with the one and done though and if Ed then also left, we'd be "point guard-less".

[AviatorX]

This is accurate, but Kobi definitely had a leaning to come here with Kaiser. There was concern with the one and done though and if Ed then also left, we'd be "point guard-less".

Didn't this happen before anyone knew how Sumner would pan out? I mean obviously the staff had an inkling I'm sure but if I'm not mistaken around the time Q committed PG was being discussed as a huge question mark for team 94.

Either way glad to see Kobi doing well at Zona. He is fun to watch. And I love Q's potential.

[D-West & PO-Z]

They've announced they are moving away from it. They either already held it or will hold a conference with several speakers which include Sagarin and Pomeroy to explain advanced statistics to the committee members.

I have a hunch it may take several selections to truly move past the RPI, unless they literally dont even look at it during discussions and only look at the advanced statistics.

I feel like they've said several times in the past they dont consider it that heavily anymore or something along those lines yet every year you hear them discuss top 50 RPI wins when making justifications of resumes etc.

[Juice]

I have a hunch it may take several selections to truly move past the RPI, unless they literally dont even look at it during discussions and only look at the advanced statistics.

I feel like they've said several times in the past they dont consider it that heavily anymore or something along those lines yet every year you hear them discuss top 50 RPI wins when making justifications of resumes etc.


The NCAA tournament selection committee's reliance on the RPI as a significant metric could end soon, with officials set to consult analytics experts on Jan. 20 in Indianapolis and discuss the creation of a new standard of analysis.

According to an article posted on NCAA.com on Friday, Dan Gavitt, the NCAA's senior vice president of basketball, and Jim Schaus, Ohio's athletic director and a member of the NCAA tournament selection committee, will meet with Jeff Sagarin (Sagarin), Kevin Pauga (KPI), Ken Pomeroy (KenPom.com) and Ben Alamar (ESPN's BPI) to discuss the selection process and consider a new measuring stick.

The new metric could be implemented into the official selection process as early as the 2017-18 season.

Selection committee members have maintained the RPI is just one tool used in the selection process each year. While other metrics are likely considered by individual members, this would be the first time that advanced metrics became an official component of the process.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18468008/ncaa-tournament-officials-meet-analytics-experts-consider-creating-new-metric

[XUFan09]

Keep in mind that no matter what happens with the RPI, it's already not directly used. Indirectly, the fact that Xavier is #15 is a good sign, but directly they discuss SOS and records against different tiers of opponents. There's a lot of variance within that, so you could easily have two teams with similar SOS and records against different tiers but with RPI rankings that differ by 10 or more.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[XUMIOH12]

They've announced they are moving away from it. They either already held it or will hold a conference with several speakers which include Sagarin and Pomeroy to explain advanced statistics to the committee members.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18468008/ncaa-tournament-officials-meet-analytics-experts-consider-creating-new-metric

Keep in mind that it isn't being implemented for this season. Next season at the earliest.

[XUMIOH12]

This is accurate, but Kobi definitely had a leaning to come here with Kaiser. There was concern with the one and done though and if Ed then also left, we'd be "point guard-less".

Not to start this debate again, but I definitely would have preferred going all in on Simmons, regardless of those consequences.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Keep in mind that no matter what happens with the RPI, it's already not directly used. Indirectly, the fact that Xavier is #15 is a good sign, but directly they discuss SOS and records against different tiers of opponents. There's a lot of variance within that, so you could easily have two teams with similar SOS and records against different tiers but with RPI rankings that differ by 10 or more.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

But how are they breaking those teams into tiers? I think they are doing it based on RPI. Top 25, 50, 100, etc.

I dont think they necessarily look at what a teams RPI is when discussing their seed but I 100% believe they take into account (significantly) that teams record and wins vs top 25 and top 50 RPI teams. They make too many references to this to believe otherwise.

[AviatorX]

Not to start this debate again, but I definitely would have preferred going all in on Simmons, regardless of those consequences.

Would have been a Miller/Mack/Matta showdown if I'm not mistaken. Funny how things work.

[bleedXblue]

Would have been a Miller/Mack/Matta showdown if I'm not mistaken. Funny how things work.

Especially now with Scruggs coming in and plans for him to play PG.

[Juice]

Would have been a Miller/Mack/Matta showdown if I'm not mistaken. Funny how things work.

I think OSU also pulled out. Kobi took UNLV out because they fired their coach. I don't think Kobi even visited Arizona before committing.

[RetireFiftyTu]

I don't understand the people saying Xavier's offense wasn't very good against Georgetown. They scored 1.19 PPP. Georgetown isn't a good defensive team and they fouled intentionally at the end but still.

[XUFan09]

But how are they breaking those teams into tiers? I think they are doing it based on RPI. Top 25, 50, 100, etc.

I dont think they necessarily look at what a teams RPI is when discussing their seed but I 100% believe they take into account (significantly) that teams record and wins vs top 25 and top 50 RPI teams. They make too many references to this to believe otherwise.
That's what I'm talking about. Xavier's success against these tiers indirectly influences their own RPI, but their own RPI doesn't actually get considered. It just correlates decently (but not exceptionally) with their resume.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[XUFan09]

I don't understand the people saying Xavier's offense wasn't very good against Georgetown. They scored 1.19 PPP. Georgetown isn't a good defensive team and they fouled intentionally at the end but still.
Yeah, I had been thinking the same thing. Georgetown has a decent but not particularly good defense. Still, after a rough first few minutes, Xavier basically scored at will on them for the rest of the game. They ran a lot of great sets, they rotated the ball well, they drove and kicked plenty, and they exploited mismatches created by screens over and over. It wasn't an elite offensive performance but it was still really good.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[bleedXblue]

[QUOTE=XUFan09;575551]Yeah, I had been thinking the same thing. Georgetown has a decent but not particularly good defense. Still, after a rough first few minutes, Xavier basically scored at will on them for the rest of the game. They ran a lot of great sets, they rotated the ball well, they drove and kicked plenty, and they exploited mismatches created by screens over and over. It wasn't an elite offensive performance but it was still really good.

Not complaining, but we had virtually no production from the post at all. To win Thursday, our chances improve dramatically if we can get Gaston going and O'Mara contributing.

[XUFan09]

That's true, but when you play four-out, that's less concerning. They didn't need to feed the center in this game. Now against UC, I hope we get 12+ points out of the 5 spot.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[XUGRAD80]

That's true, but when you play four-out, that's less concerning. They didn't need to feed the center in this game. Now against UC, I hope we get 12+ points out of the 5 spot.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

In the GT game the combo of Gadson, O'Mera, and Jones provided 12 pts and 8 rebounds. For the season the trio is averaging over 16 pts and over 12 rebs per game. Not to shabby.

[XUFan09]

In the GT game the combo of Gadson, O'Mera, and Jones provided 12 pts and 8 rebounds. For the season the trio is averaging over 16 pts and over 12 rebs per game. Not to shabby.
Yep. Really, that's all we need from them. Now, if one of them gets hot, then keep sending it in. Gaston in particular could abuse UC players in the paint.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[scoscox]

I'd like to see more from them. Hopefully, Tyrique will start to come on a little bit (/stop fouling) and Sean and Rashid will develop some consistency. Shid has to commit himself every game.