View Full Version : Quentin Goodin
X-Fan
01-21-2017, 07:10 AM
I really liked the progression I was seeing from Q up through the St. John's game. He now has the rest of the season to step up even more and play to the level that Coach Mack knows he can. Looking forward to seeing how he does against GTown tomorrow and the remainder of the season.
Go X!!!!
Ahhh, a nice positive thought! Q has come a long way already. Not what you'd call a sharp shooter yet, but attacks the rim well and plays good D. Here's hoping he looks great in the minutes he's bound to get back now.
xufan2434
01-21-2017, 10:31 AM
I really liked the progression I was seeing from Q up through the St. John's game. He now has the rest of the season to step up even more and play to the level that Coach Mack knows he can. Looking forward to seeing how he does against GTown tomorrow and the remainder of the season.
Go X!!!!
Completely agree. Q was our guy coming in as a top 100 recruit. He just needs the confidence going forward. I couldn't find the video in the 2 seconds I looked lol but need more plays like his coast to coast in the Tire Pros Tourney this year. He has the ability just needs to get going
XfansinKy
01-21-2017, 10:37 AM
When Q goes to the basket in the open court, he's about as good as Dez was as a freshman. He just lacks the shooting ability. He's had a bunch of balls roll out that just as easily could've rolled in. He's definitely going to be a serviceable combo guard to give the other guards a few minutes rest here n there. Imagine what an athletic backcourt him and Paul Scruggs will be. It will look like two NFL safeties playing guard.
I am very high on Goodin too. I look forward to his increased minutes. No question he needs to keep work on his outside shot- but so does Tre and JP and Gates. Heck, I think Bernard has the best shooting percentage from 3 this season- I doubt any of us would ever have thought there was a chance of that happening (I know I didn't). I am proud of Bernard for stepping up for the team and hitting some key 3s as other players continue to struggle... but I digress.
To get back to the topic of Goodin, I think he and Jones have phenomenal chemistry and should be on the court together even more than they are.
American X
01-27-2017, 08:05 AM
I LOVED the game out of Quentin Goodin last night. Really impressed by the poise for a freshman on the road in the Crosstown Shootout. More minutes, please.
bleedXblue
01-27-2017, 08:13 AM
I LOVED the game out of Quentin Goodin last night. Really impressed by the poise for a freshman on the road in the Crosstown Shootout. More minutes, please.
especially considering Ed is clearly hurting and not 100%
XfansinKy
01-27-2017, 08:18 AM
The more he can play the healthier Edmon can possibly get. Edmon's just gotta put on some muscle. Way too skinny to attack the basket. He could come out after this season and get drafted but he'll get hurt bad in the NBA. Anyways, if Q can get himself more balanced in the lane instead of twisting and leaning all over the place, he will get a few shots to fall. He's a good looking athlete for a freshman. Him and Tyrique have the athleticism it takes to play high level D1 ball.
muskieindent
01-27-2017, 08:19 AM
He's getting better.More playing time can only help.Same with Tyrique.
American X
01-29-2017, 08:30 PM
Welcome to the rest of your career, Quentin. Great outing tonight.
X-Fan
01-29-2017, 08:32 PM
He really stepped up tonight, even before Ed went down. Bright future for Q!
bleedXblue
01-29-2017, 08:33 PM
Looks like the game has slowed down for Q and he's just playing more and thinking less.
So, hasn't THIS become more important in the recent past? He looked great today, and the future is bright. Go X!
Xville
01-29-2017, 09:48 PM
Great job by Q tonight...thought it would take him a year to adjust but looks like it only took about half a season. So glad to be wrong on this one. Continue to prove me wrong Q. Loving it
KabeX
01-29-2017, 10:15 PM
Q + Scruggs + (Marshall + Harden) + maybe Ridder = BRIGHT FUTURE.
All that said, I want Ed and Tre back next year.
klark
01-29-2017, 11:49 PM
I thought his FT shooting was clutch after Ed went down. They clearly went after him and he did not flinch. I like his calm and agree he and Jones do have some great chemistry.
Praying for Ed to get good news.
XfansinKy
01-30-2017, 06:37 AM
That spin move in the lane followed by him going way up and nailing that little touch shot was just ridiculous. It seems like high level D1 basketball does "slow down" quicker for the more athletic players. I tried to see if there's any news on Ed's knee. I can't watch the replay of it. He's been through so many injuries.
muskieindent
01-30-2017, 08:49 AM
Q + Scruggs + (Marshall + Harden) + maybe Ridder = BRIGHT FUTURE.
All that said, I want Ed and Tre back next year.
I'm not counting on either of them back next year.After this possible injury,if Ed is still projected to be a first round pick I think he'll leave.Why take a risk of getting hurt?
XfansinKy
02-01-2017, 06:25 AM
Don't get me wrong, Ed Sumner is a world class athlete that can and has put a team on his shoulders and made sure they won. With that said, Q is a 100% true point guard that will start from the top of the key and set up some well executed plays. I'm looking forward to Q getting the ball in the open court when he's decided that he's attacking the rim. Thats a 6'4 210lb freight train with elite level speed and a 40 plus inch vertical leap coming strong. Glad he chose X over UofL, Butler, Florida, and the rest. I watched him a bunch at the state tournament and am glad coach Mack recruits hard in Ky.
35 minutes. He wasn't taking wild shots, and the kid is growning up before our eyes.
D-West & PO-Z
02-01-2017, 11:24 PM
35 minutes. He wasn't taking wild shots, and the kid is growning up before our eyes.
He is going to be very, very good.
Blue Blooded-05
02-01-2017, 11:30 PM
Those last 2 clutch free throws reminded me of Tu (then known as Terrell) vs. Missouri his freshman year... just sayin
BandAid
02-01-2017, 11:31 PM
I officially have a man-crush on Q
xuwin
02-01-2017, 11:32 PM
Best defensive guard on the team. Shut down Seton Hall's hot shooter in the second half. That last block was ridiculous.
XUFan09
02-01-2017, 11:43 PM
Best defensive guard on the team. Shut down Seton Hall's hot shooter in the second half. That last block was ridiculous.
He is going to be part of what could become an elite defensive team in future seasons.
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xudash
02-01-2017, 11:56 PM
Those last 2 clutch free throws reminded me of Tu (then known as Terrell) vs. Missouri his freshman year... just sayin
Thought the same thing.
waggy
02-02-2017, 01:20 AM
He's good with both hands.
Should be interesting against Creighton. Think they're settled on a senior walkon at PG.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 02:02 AM
Goodin > Sumner
He'd better be. Sumner can't run or move laterally.
OTRMUSKIE
02-02-2017, 03:50 AM
Q is better point guard then sumner yes. But Sumner isn't a point guard. Summer doesn't miss those layups either.
mirabilelectu
02-02-2017, 07:03 AM
Q is better point guard then sumner yes. But Sumner isn't a point guard. Summer doesn't miss those layups either.
I'm admittedly a little hard on Ed, but have you been watching this year? Ed had spurts this year in which he has consistently failed to finish at the cup unless he jams it.
xufan2434
02-02-2017, 08:03 AM
Now that's the Top 100 recruit and best player in the state of KY!! Good to see out of Q. Sometimes this year, he just looked like he was always a little behind everyone else, which is to be expected. But man, give him some PT and confidence and let the smart athlete take over. It's awesome to watch. Even though he didn't finish some of those at the rack, I love him playing aggressive. 7 assists?? That's exactly what they need. 2 huuuuuuge free throws towards the end too. That's back to back clutch shots from him at the line. Haven't seen that in a frosh since.... #52
Here's to hoping his legs don't tire out completely. He said post game Ed warned him he'd get tired. Only thing I can think of is that maybe since he hasn't logged too too many minutes prior to right now, that he can last longer into the season and avoid the wall? A little different than Tre, Semaj, etc.
XU3232
02-02-2017, 08:11 AM
When Q starts finishing his drives and making shots... look out. He can get to the rim at will and I'm very impressed with his strength.
Muskie
02-02-2017, 08:39 AM
Q has played the last two games with the luxury of not looking over shoulder when he commits a turnover. That's going to pay dividends this year and next.
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Muskie
02-02-2017, 08:44 AM
I'm admittedly a little hard on Ed, but have you been watching this year? Ed had spurts this year in which he has consistently failed to finish at the cup unless he jams it. Sumner and the team in general can't finish around the basket unless it's a dunk. Been an "issue" the last few years.
XUGRAD80
02-02-2017, 08:48 AM
What's the old saying...."the best QB on a struggling team is always the one sitting on the bench, until he actually gets to play, then his backup automatically becomes better."
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Q had a very good game in some aspects, but he is still a freshman, and still has holes in his game. He will struggle at times against certain teams. He does need to show that he can make an outside shot, especially a mid-range or pull-up shot, or teams will just slack off and take the drive away. He did miss his first 3 free throws, before gathering himself and making those 2 huge ones down the stretch. I was questioning his ball handling ability early in the season, but in the last 2 games he was far more than adequate in that regard, so I'm not so concerted about that now. We all need to realize that he will have times in games where he makes bad plays, misses key shots, and loses his man on defense, but as long as we can see improvement as the season goes on, we should still be encouraged. I look forward to watching him develop over the rest of this season and beyond.
Muskie
02-02-2017, 08:53 AM
What's the old saying...."the best QB on a struggling team is always the one sitting on the bench, until he actually gets to play, then his backup automatically becomes better."
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Q had a very good game in some aspects, but he is still a freshman, and still has holes in his game. He will struggle at times against certain teams. He does need to show that he can make an outside shot, especially a mid-range or pull-up shot, or teams will just slack off and take the drive away. He did miss his first 3 free throws, before gathering himself and making those 2 huge ones down the stretch. I was questioning his ball handling ability early in the season, but in the last 2 games he was far more than adequate in that regard, so I'm not so concerted about that now. We all need to realize that he will have times in games where he makes bad plays, misses key shots, and loses his man on defense, but as long as we can see improvement as the season goes on, we should still be encouraged. I look forward to watching him develop over the rest of this season and beyond. This point of view makes sense too. First Full Road game on Saturday in front of the whole city of Omaha.
American X
02-02-2017, 08:53 AM
Sumner and the team in general can't finish around the basket unless it's a dunk. Been an "issue" the last few years.
Seriously. Is there a metric that measures missed shots within 2 feet? I am befuddled that we have the 30th most efficient offense in the country.
mirabilelectu
02-02-2017, 08:53 AM
What's the old saying...."the best QB on a struggling team is always the one sitting on the bench, until he actually gets to play, then his backup automatically becomes better."
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Q had a very good game in some aspects, but he is still a freshman, and still has holes in his game. He will struggle at times against certain teams. He does need to show that he can make an outside shot, especially a mid-range or pull-up shot, or teams will just slack off and take the drive away. He did miss his first 3 free throws, before gathering himself and making those 2 huge ones down the stretch. I was questioning his ball handling ability early in the season, but in the last 2 games he was far more than adequate in that regard, so I'm not so concerted about that now. We all need to realize that he will have times in games where he makes bad plays, misses key shots, and loses his man on defense, but as long as we can see improvement as the season goes on, we should still be encouraged. I look forward to watching him develop over the rest of this season and beyond.
I agree with all of your points here, I think my excitement (and perhaps a few others on here) stems from Qs more traditional point guard style. He can get into the paint at different rates than Ed can, which makes it easier for him to dish to big men or shooters. Also, we've been playing for two years now with Ed, who is average at best with outside shots and pull-ups, so I think the quote about the QBs is a little misleading. But overall, very excited for Q and I agree with tempering our expectations to be commensurate with his experience.
Muskie
02-02-2017, 08:55 AM
Seriously. Is there a metric that measures missed shots within 2 feet? I am befuddled that we have the 30th most efficient offense in the country. We could easily be top 15 if we converted better from inside 3 ft.
XUGRAD80
02-02-2017, 09:10 AM
I'm excited about his potential and ability as anyone.....I just don't want people turning on him and saying bad things about him when he struggles....because he WILL struggle at times. We all got to remember that he is still a true freshman, who hasn't played a whole lot minutes his year, and whom other teams don't have a lot of tape on. As the opposition coaches/players see him on tape more they will make adjustments to how they play him. How he adjusts to those adjustments will determine just how good he becaomes.
BandAid
02-02-2017, 09:20 AM
You all crazy. Q is the second coming.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 09:21 AM
I'm excited about his potential and ability as anyone.....I just don't want people turning on him and saying bad things about him when he struggles....because he WILL struggle at times.
He struggled a lot yesterday even.
Muskie
02-02-2017, 09:22 AM
I'm excited about his potential and ability as anyone.....I just don't want people turning on him and saying bad things about him when he struggles....because he WILL struggle at times. We all got to remember that he is still a true freshman, who hasn't played a whole lot minutes his year, and whom other teams don't have a lot of tape on. As the opposition coaches/players see him on tape more they will make adjustments to how they play him. How he adjusts to those adjustments will determine just how good he becaomes. Excellent point. Let's see what Creighton does.
XfansinKy
02-02-2017, 09:31 AM
Being from Ky and a huge Ky high school basketball fan, my dad and I go to about every big high school, AAU, tournament in Ky. In the 16 team state tournament, he was just on another level. We watched a weekend AAU tournament that coach Mack was at for about 30 min that had 3 of the top 10 point guards in the country there as well as a few McDonald's All Americans. I'm telling you, if I was a scout and knew nothing about any of the players, Q would have been who I recruited. When I walked by him I couldn't believe how big he was. Dude has muscles on top of muscles and is taller than some of the guys there who are listed at 6'5. I still say after another season or two, he will be watched by NBA scouts. Cant teach his physique, 40" vertical, and that his cousin told me he benched 225 12 times his senior year in HS before he ever started lifting weights.
xufan2434
02-02-2017, 09:34 AM
Excellent point. Let's see what Creighton does.
Good thing they're in the same boat. Zierdon is a good player, but certainly not the quality that would scare me that much in terms of the other guards in the league. On another note, Patton and Foster are already giving me nightmares
I still say after another season or two, he will be watched by NBA scouts. Cant teach his physique, 40" vertical, and that his cousin told me he benched 225 12 times his senior year in HS before he ever started lifting weights.
I think critics forget how steep the learning curve is for PGs. A red shirt year was probably a big reason for Ed's breakout freshman season.
xuwin
02-02-2017, 09:40 AM
Seriously. Is there a metric that measures missed shots within 2 feet? I am befuddled that we have the 30th most efficient offense in the country.
Seriously, it indicates that layups aren't that easy to make when you have great athletes trying to stop you. That's why so many teams live and die with the three.
D-West & PO-Z
02-02-2017, 09:44 AM
He struggled a lot yesterday even.
Yeah exactly. I loved what I saw from Q yesterday but he isnt better than Ed. Different? Yes. More of a pure point? Yes. Can you imagine Ed having the exact same game last night as Q did and being 2/11 from the field? He'd be getting roasted.
All that being said very happy with Q last night and very excited to see him continue to develop this year and beyond. He is going to be very, very good.
American X
02-02-2017, 09:48 AM
Seriously, it indicates that layups aren't that easy to make when you have great athletes trying to stop you. That's why so many teams live and die with the three.
We have great athletes too (we do, don't we?). I think it indicates we are not great at making layups.
You have interesting criteria for excusing doing something poorly.
xuwin
02-02-2017, 09:49 AM
Yeah exactly. I loved what I saw from Q yesterday but he isnt better than Ed. Different? Yes. More of a pure point? Yes. Can you imagine Ed having the exact same game last night as Q did and being 2/11 from the field? He'd be getting roasted.
All that being said very happy with Q last night and very excited to see him continue to develop this year and beyond. He is going to be very, very good.
I think the biggest difference between the two at this point is that Ed would have taken a hit and drawn a foul on those missed layups. Q could make them foul him by forcing body contact.
He'd better be. Sumner can't run or move laterally.
And the crutches will probably draw a T.
Fireball
02-02-2017, 09:51 AM
I thought that O'Mara had his best game of the year last night, and that was in no small part due to Q. I thought Q was so good last night of drawing the defenders to him and then getting the ball to a wide open big for a layup or a dunk. Sumner honestly hasn't been great at that this year.
We might see a revitalization of our front line the remainder of the season if Q can keep that up.
gladdenguy
02-02-2017, 10:37 AM
Somewhere Bob Queenan, the first "Q" I've known from Xavier, is smiling and absolutely loving this surge from Quentin Goodin.
Both of the Q's can keep it going for another 3+ years.
RetireFiftyTu
02-02-2017, 10:45 AM
Seriously. Is there a metric that measures missed shots within 2 feet? I am befuddled that we have the 30th most efficient offense in the country.
hoop-math.com is a pretty good site. Here is Xavier's page for this year: http://hoop-math.com/Xavier2017.php
Xavier is shooting 57.1% at the rim this year. Last year they shot 56.9% at the rim.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 10:56 AM
hoop-math.com is a pretty good site. Here is Xavier's page for this year: http://hoop-math.com/Xavier2017.php
Xavier is shooting 57.1% at the rim this year. Last year they shot 56.9% at the rim.
Interesting.
Gonzagaa: 67.7%
Villanova: 72.9%
Butler: 64.5%
Louisville: 62.6%
Wichita State: 59.8%
Georgetown: 58.2%
Just some random searches. 57.1% and 56.9% do not appear to be very good.
xufan2434
02-02-2017, 11:01 AM
hoop-math.com is a pretty good site. Here is Xavier's page for this year: http://hoop-math.com/Xavier2017.php
Xavier is shooting 57.1% at the rim this year. Last year they shot 56.9% at the rim.
I would be interested to see how much that number from last year was brought down by Ed and other guards driving as opposed to James and Jalen. They had their share of misses on their 1 on 1's, sure.. But it sure seemed almost automatic of a bucket every time they got an offensive board or a dump off
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 11:05 AM
I would be interested to see how much that number from last year was brought down by Ed and other guards driving as opposed to James and Jalen. They had their share of misses on their 1 on 1's, sure.. But it sure seemed almost automatic of a bucket every time they got an offensive board or a dump off
Sumner is 60.2% at the rim. Third on the team. Last year he was an awful 49.6% (still better than Myles and Trevon).
X-ceptional
02-02-2017, 11:36 AM
GET SOME
https://media.giphy.com/media/Yv9vephMsjIL6/giphy.gif
RetireFiftyTu
02-02-2017, 11:40 AM
Interesting.
Gonzagaa: 67.7%
Villanova: 72.9%
Butler: 64.5%
Louisville: 62.6%
Wichita State: 59.8%
Georgetown: 58.2%
Just some random searches. 57.1% and 56.9% do not appear to be very good.
Yeah its not good at all. Xavier is 265th in the country in FG% at the rim and last year they were 245th.
GET SOME
https://media.giphy.com/media/Yv9vephMsjIL6/giphy.gif
That was a thing of beauty! Seriously, how often do you see that? And at that moment in a game! Well done. Far from a perfect game, but I'm sure even he would tell you that. It is, however, very encouraging and more than I thought we could expect at the beginning of the season. Remember this when it gets bumpy...
I hate to say this, but Edmunds injury is the best thing that could have happened to Quentin. He will be a grown ass man by next season.
XfansinKy
02-02-2017, 12:51 PM
That was a thing of beauty! Seriously, how often do you see that? And at that moment in a game! Well done. Far from a perfect game, but I'm sure even he would tell you that. It is, however, very encouraging and more than I thought we could expect at the beginning of the season. Remember this when it gets bumpy...
Hes got hops like Sumner.
xudash
02-02-2017, 01:46 PM
They showed a lot of character last night.
Leadership was a concern.
Yet, these guys came together last night.
They came together as a TEAM.
Mack said "next man up." But it became next men up.
Who knows what happens from here, but way to gut this one out.
Edmond should've been slotted at the 2 all year. Oh well, heres to hoping Chris Mack keeps this thing going.
SemajParlor
02-02-2017, 02:32 PM
Q is better point guard then sumner yes. But Sumner isn't a point guard .
This is pretty silly.
SemajParlor
02-02-2017, 02:40 PM
Ed's efficiency rating was more than double Quentin's guys. Double. I am extremely excited about Quentin but I think we should keep the comparisons away for a little bit.
Keep improving, Q. The season is always very fun - even if expectations may sometimes change.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 02:44 PM
I thought I was replying to sarcasm earlier when I saw the post about Q being better than Ed. Guess not.
I'm not really sure how anyone could have watched last night's game and seriously come to that conclusion. Q's got a lot of game and is going to have a great career. But him being our only PG the rest of the year is a problem.
ArizonaXUGrad
02-02-2017, 03:30 PM
I thought I was replying to sarcasm earlier when I saw the post about Q being better than Ed. Guess not.
I'm not really sure how anyone could have watched last night's game and seriously come to that conclusion. Q's got a lot of game and is going to have a great career. But him being our only PG the rest of the year is a problem.
This, people need to pump the brakes a bit here. Q is good, but he is going to make massive mistakes (hello he dribbled off his foot late last night) that may (probably) cost us games. Nine games left in the BE season and I still think 3-6 is probably with 4-5 being a better outcome. SH is near the bottom and we needed a rim out three for the win.
Wheelhouse
02-02-2017, 03:33 PM
I thought I was replying to sarcasm earlier when I saw the post about Q being better than Ed. Guess not.
I'm not really sure how anyone could have watched last night's game and seriously come to that conclusion. Q's got a lot of game and is going to have a great career. But him being our only PG the rest of the year is a problem.
I agree with everything you're saying but the vibe I get from people's comments is that they think Q is more of a pure point guard than Ed, not a better player. And I actually believe that. I think he is a significantly better distributer. God forbid the kid could finish those drives at the basket. I think in time he will. And A+ point about Q being our only PG for the rest of the year. That could, and probably will, come back to haunt us.
I agree with everything you're saying but the vibe I get from people's comments is that they think Q is more of a pure point guard than Ed, not a better player. And I actually believe that. I think he is a significantly better distributer. God forbid the kid could finish those drives at the basket. I think in time he will. And A+ point about Q being our only PG for the rest of the year. That could, and probably will, come back to haunt us.
Yea, but it will haunt us because there is no one to backup Q, not because he is likely to fail.
Yea, but it will haunt us because there is no one to backup Q, not because he is likely to fail.
It will hurt us on 2 levels. He was Ed's backup because he's a drop off from Ed. Add in having no one behind him, and it could spell some degree of disaster. Having said that, I thought he played a very good game last night, better than I could have hoped for at the beginning of this season. And despite the normal growing pains, he should just keep getting better over the months and years to come.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 03:52 PM
Yea, but it will haunt us because there is no one to backup Q, not because he is likely to fail.
Oh, he's likely to "fail" at times. He's going to have his issues, and he's going to turn the ball over too much some games. Hopefully he'll shoot better than 18% most nights, too.
Oh, he's likely to "fail" at times. He's going to have his issues, and he's going to turn the ball over too much some games. Hopefully he'll shoot better than 18% most nights, too.
So you are down on Q?
Oh, he's likely to "fail" at times. He's going to have his issues, and he's going to turn the ball over too much some games. Hopefully he'll shoot better than 18% most nights, too.
Or put it this way. If Sumner were healthy, would you still want him running point? If so, then we simply disagree.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 03:58 PM
So you are down on Q?
No, I think he's gonna be great. But he's a freshman PG being thrown into a 30+ minute role mid-season in one of the best leagues in America. He's going to struggle at times. He'll probably be awful in a game or two even.
GoMuskies
02-02-2017, 04:00 PM
Or put it this way. If Sumner were healthy, would you still want him running point? If so, then we simply disagree.
If Sumner were healthy, there's no one in the lineup I would want to replace with Q. I'd still love him in a 10-15 minute per game role.
If Sumner were healthy, there's no one in the lineup I would want to replace with Q. I'd still love him in a 10-15 minute per game role.
Yep, until Ed got hurt Q was right where he was supposed to be doing what was expected. I think some people saw him look more like a "traditional PG", make some great passes and became infatuated. That's not a knock, I loved it too. He was helped by the fact that our bigs looked much better on some occasions (where they often looked inept prior to last night). But Q also had a lot of things to clean up. Ed looks different, because Ed IS different. He's not a typical PG, but you still want him on the floor.
Wheelhouse
02-02-2017, 04:18 PM
Yea, but it will haunt us because there is no one to backup Q, not because he is likely to fail.
That's what I meant. I wasn't clear.
SemajParlor
02-02-2017, 04:30 PM
I agree with everything you're saying but the vibe I get from people's comments is that they think Q is more of a pure point guard than Ed, not a better player. And I actually believe that.
Conventionality = / better for the team though.
SemajParlor
02-02-2017, 04:32 PM
Yep, until Ed got hurt Q was right where he was supposed to be doing what was expected. I think some people saw him look more like a "traditional PG", make some great passes and became infatuated. That's not a knock, I loved it too. He was helped by the fact that our bigs looked much better on some occasions (where they often looked inept prior to last night). But Q also had a lot of things to clean up. Ed looks different, because Ed IS different. He's not a typical PG, but you still want him on the floor.
Yes.
scoscox
02-02-2017, 06:27 PM
I hate to say this, but Edmunds injury is the best thing that could have happened to Quentin. He will be a grown ass man by next season.
Q is probably the most grown ass man freshman X has ever had. Guy is a specimen. Tyrique would be right behind him. I know what you mean though and obviously more reps are always a good thing. I agree with the sentiment that Q's conventional style is a good thing. It makes me wonder if having Q run the point and letting Ed play make from the 2 guard spot would've been a good way to go.
Juice
02-02-2017, 10:03 PM
Q is probably the most grown ass man freshman X has ever had. Guy is a specimen. Tyrique would be right behind him. I know what you mean though and obviously more reps are always a good thing. I agree with the sentiment that Q's conventional style is a good thing. It makes me wonder if having Q run the point and letting Ed play make from the 2 guard spot would've been a good way to go.
Jalen? Dez?
Q is probably the most grown ass man freshman X has ever had. Guy is a specimen. Tyrique would be right behind him. I know what you mean though and obviously more reps are always a good thing. I agree with the sentiment that Q's conventional style is a good thing. It makes me wonder if having Q run the point and letting Ed play make from the 2 guard spot would've been a good way to go.
I think that's why they mixed that in. That said, you start your starters, then go from there with lineups. Bring the young guys along as warranted. And now THIS.
scoscox
02-02-2017, 11:22 PM
[/B]
I think that's why they mixed that in. That said, you start your starters, then go from there with lineups. Bring the young guys along as warranted. And now THIS.
True, you work these things out over the course of the year. Unfortunately, just when we start getting there, Ed goes down.
Yes, Jalen and Dez. It was a little hyperbolic. I think Tyrique might be bigger than even Jalen was. He certainly plays second fiddle to no one in the calves department.
X-ceptional
02-02-2017, 11:26 PM
Jalen? Dez?
Got to agree. Also, probably no point in continuing this digression, but it's a message board, so digression is the name of the game... and I'm a gamer. Have to throw in Xavier's bench press king (as far as I know, this is still the case), and keep in mind this is from just his JR year in high school:
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/897bf8cd7c78afb8db2e81443ebe6a69125c4c7b/c=0-328-1382-1367/local/-/media/Cincinnati/2015/03/02/B9316037710Z.1_20150302101306_000_GCD9Q8H7O.1-0.jpg
But, back to the point at hand... Q is a beast, and I can't wait to see what else he's got in store.
scoscox
02-02-2017, 11:30 PM
J Dunc, Sato, Larry Sykes, Torraye Braggs, I get it the list goes on. Still, for freshman, rique and q are huge.
Got to agree. Also, probably no point in continuing this digression, but it's a message board, so digression is the name of the game... and I'm a gamer. Have to throw in Xavier's bench press king (as far as I know, this is still the case), and keep in mind this is from just his JR year in high school:
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/897bf8cd7c78afb8db2e81443ebe6a69125c4c7b/c=0-328-1382-1367/local/-/media/Cincinnati/2015/03/02/B9316037710Z.1_20150302101306_000_GCD9Q8H7O.1-0.jpg
But, back to the point at hand... Q is a beast, and I can't wait to see what else he's got in store.
That does not look fair! Where's the white towel when you need it? Save lives! Don't make him mad, kid!
X-ceptional
02-02-2017, 11:33 PM
J Dunc, Sato, Larry Sykes, Torraye Braggs, I get it the list goes on. Still, for freshman, rique and q are huge.
Haha, no doubt. Just a little back and forth. Like I said, Q is unquestionably a beast, and ESPECIALLY considering he's a freaking point guard.
Juice
02-02-2017, 11:34 PM
J Dunc, Sato, Larry Sykes, Torraye Braggs, I get it the list goes on. Still, for freshman, rique and q are huge.
No doubt. They both came in physically ready to go. I just think people are getting way ahead of themselves on certain things they're saying about both of these guys in the last week. Q has been playing really well the last few games, but he obviously had some issues finishing last night. I'm going to guess that last night's shooting performance was more an exception than the norm. And Tyrique plays hard, rebounds well, and guards the rim well for a 6'7''-6'8'' frosh, but he also fouls a lot. I think these guys are really good freshmen setting themselves up for a good end the season and a better soph year. I just don't think we need to be talking about these guys as XU greats yet. It's a tad unfair to them.
X-ceptional
02-02-2017, 11:36 PM
No doubt.
Jinx
No doubt. They both came in physically ready to go. I just think people are getting way ahead of themselves on certain things they're saying about both of these guys in the last week. Q has been playing really well the last few games, but he obviously had some issues finishing last night. I'm going to guess that last night's shooting performance was more an exception than the norm. And Tyrique plays hard, rebounds well, and guards the rim well for a 6'7''-6'8'' frosh, but he also fouls a lot. I think these guys are really good freshmen setting themselves up for a good end the season and a better soph year. I just don't think we need to be talking about these guys as XU greats yet. It's a tad unfair to them.
Are you saying it's too early to merge this with the "retire their number" thread???
Juice
02-03-2017, 12:24 AM
Are you saying it's too early to merge this with the "retire their number" thread???
Ha, yes. Just a tad premature. But if we beat Creighton, then I may get a little crazy and get that discussion going again.
XUFan09
02-03-2017, 01:21 AM
If we're talking about the Xavier fanbase getting way too excited over a small stretch of really good play by a replacement player, nothing beats when people were favorably comparing Remy to Semaj after Remy had a great game at Auburn. God, that was entertaining.
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bobbiemcgee
02-03-2017, 02:45 AM
Remy had 18 pts and was a rs junior. Semaj? No. Q was 2-11 and ran the team well. He had a nice game for a frosh.
LA Muskie
02-03-2017, 02:48 AM
Some Xavier fans are straight up batshit crazy. And I love that about you!
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GenerationX
02-03-2017, 03:53 AM
That was a thing of beauty! Seriously, how often do you see that? And at that moment in a game! Well done. Far from a perfect game, but I'm sure even he would tell you that. It is, however, very encouraging and more than I thought we could expect at the beginning of the season. Remember this when it gets bumpy...
A10 tournament, at US Bank I think, Justin Cage blocked the shot at the buzzer for the 4th win in as many days to get the auto berth. Great memories.
A10 tournament, at US Bank I think, Justin Cage blocked the shot at the buzzer for the 4th win in as many days to get the auto berth. Great memories.
Justin Cage - an All-Time favorite!
xufan2434
02-03-2017, 09:26 AM
A10 tournament, at US Bank I think, Justin Cage blocked the shot at the buzzer for the 4th win in as many days to get the auto berth. Great memories.
Rushed the court after that one. Still should have beaten Morrison and Zaga that year
BandAid
02-03-2017, 09:40 AM
Haha, no doubt. Just a little back and forth. Like I said, Q is unquestionably a beast, and ESPECIALLY considering he's a freaking point guard.
Q is probably our best built freshman point guard ever (in terms of muscle)...at least I can't recall one coming in as jacked as he.
BandAid
02-03-2017, 09:42 AM
A10 tournament, at US Bank I think, Justin Cage blocked the shot at the buzzer for the 4th win in as many days to get the auto berth. Great memories.
Rushed the court after that one. Still should have beaten Morrison and Zaga that year
Yup, that was great. Only time I got to rush a court. My brother rushed early. To this day he's still embarrassed by it.
GoMuskies
02-03-2017, 09:42 AM
Is he cut like a diamond?
XUFan09
02-03-2017, 10:01 AM
Remy had 18 pts and was a rs junior. Semaj? No. Q was 2-11 and ran the team well. He had a nice game for a frosh.
That's the point. People were all ecstatic about Remy after that game, some acting like he was on level with Semaj with somewhat different strengths. It was funny to read. I agree that Q had a nice game for a frosh, and I feel good with the point guard spot going forward.
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XUFan09
02-03-2017, 10:01 AM
A10 tournament, at US Bank I think, Justin Cage blocked the shot at the buzzer for the 4th win in as many days to get the auto berth. Great memories.
I immediately thought of that. To this day, I am confident that the shot would have gone in if Cage hadn't blocked it. What a baller.
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scoscox
02-03-2017, 10:52 AM
No doubt. They both came in physically ready to go. I just think people are getting way ahead of themselves on certain things they're saying about both of these guys in the last week. Q has been playing really well the last few games, but he obviously had some issues finishing last night. I'm going to guess that last night's shooting performance was more an exception than the norm. And Tyrique plays hard, rebounds well, and guards the rim well for a 6'7''-6'8'' frosh, but he also fouls a lot. I think these guys are really good freshmen setting themselves up for a good end the season and a better soph year. I just don't think we need to be talking about these guys as XU greats yet. It's a tad unfair to them.
That's fine. I was merely saying that, regardless of their production or potential, they are already on the all-jacked team, no matter what they end up doing basketball-wise.
Also, I think he is undoubtedly the most muscular pg we've ever had. Lionel was probably the most jacked in recent memory besides. Then Tu.
Q, Sumner, Dee, Semaj, Tu, Lavender, Wolf, Finn, Chalmers, Mcafee, Lumpkin, Walker. I'm missing a few in there, but Q is definitely the most built I can remember by a pretty significant margin.
D-West & PO-Z
02-03-2017, 11:06 AM
Justin Cage - an All-Time favorite!
One of my top 5 favorites of all time.
I know I might seem crazy for being this high on Q. But I can only go off of what I have seen. And what I have seen was a very impressive PG.
birdman71
02-03-2017, 12:55 PM
J Dunc, Sato, Larry Sykes, Torraye Braggs, I get it the list goes on. Still, for freshman, rique and q are huge.
Sato had less body fat than a hunk of tofu.
Muskeagle
02-03-2017, 03:28 PM
Another thing I like about Goodin is how well he speaks in the press. He is affable, pleasant, composed, and intelligent.
I like his upside on the court, to be sure, but I like that he represents the school well on and off the court.
ArizonaXUGrad
02-03-2017, 03:54 PM
Insert my opinion here, yes Jones and Q are some of the most mature physical players we have gotten in a while. I am curious to hear their actual ages. I know some have mentioned Reynolds here, remember Reynolds prepped a year and he paid his own way a year. Reynolds was an OLD freshman.
Juice
02-03-2017, 04:05 PM
Insert my opinion here, yes Jones and Q are some of the most mature physical players we have gotten in a while. I am curious to hear their actual ages. I know some have mentioned Reynolds here, remember Reynolds prepped a year and he paid his own way a year. Reynolds was an OLD freshman.
google.com
THRILLHOUSE
02-03-2017, 04:12 PM
Whatever. JOHNNY WOLF 4 EVER!
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/e22317ec5b15411194960fab84706bee/xavier-university-guard-johnny-wolf-r-drives-to-the-basket-around-h08ef4.jpg
ArizonaXUGrad
02-03-2017, 05:35 PM
google.com
Jones is May'97 and Goodin is September'97. Jones would be considered a year older for his class, Goodin fell just at the start.
Edit: Their age should be used as perspective. Reynolds was a 21 year old Freshman. Hell, look at that Udoka guy at Kansas, well before he was hurt. They were trying say he was 17 but he looks 25.
XUFan09
02-03-2017, 06:14 PM
Jones is May'97 and Goodin is September'97. Jones would be considered a year older for his class, Goodin fell just at the start.
Edit: Their age should be used as perspective. Reynolds was a 21 year old Freshman. Hell, look at that Udoka guy at Kansas, well before he was hurt. They were trying say he was 17 but he looks 25.
Depending on state, May and September are both often hybrid months where it could go either way.
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google.com
What is this magic machine you speak of?
Juice
02-03-2017, 07:34 PM
What is this magic machine you speak of?
I've been told it uses it's black sorcery to come up with answers to your questions.
I've been told it uses it's black sorcery to come up with answers to your questions.
Oh, the Magic Eight Ball! Why didn't you just say so?
D-West & PO-Z
02-04-2017, 03:35 PM
Just blocked a guy at the rim in Creighton game. Ridiculous.
X-Fan
02-04-2017, 08:37 PM
Just blocked a guy at the rim in Creighton game. Ridiculous.
I believe it was Marcus Foster that he blocked (one of the mote athletic players in the country). Awesome stuff. The game is really starting to slow down for Q! Love it!
GIMMFD
02-05-2017, 01:25 AM
Confidence confidence confidence. This is a really exciting time for us, granted this hasn't been the greatest season so far, we're seeing our Freshman grow up before our eyes. Q knocked down the outside shot today, and I was very proud of his game management skills, hoping for more of the same for the rest of the season! LOVE IT!
XUGRAD80
02-05-2017, 06:14 AM
Q seems to have the very important mental capacity to learn from what happens to him out on the court, and then adjust his game accordingly.
Case in point......in the last game he was able to drive to the basket on the left side and get his shot up with little opposition. The shot didn't always go down, but he still kept doing it after learning that he could. Didn't see that much earlier in the year. Yesterday he continued that approach and was initially successful in getting his shot up. But then he got that shot blocked by their big freshman (who is really good at that). So he adjusted. He took a few outside shots, made a couple, and then the next time he drove the left side and the big guy came over to block his shot, he dished it off for an easy basket.
With his ability to drive, and his ability to think and adjust while on the floor, if he develops a decent 3point shot and develops a really good mid-range shot, his ceiling is unlimited. In HS (especially playing the opposition he did, and with his size and strength) he could score over opposing players at will. Often he was the tallest and biggest player on the court. I like how he is adjusting his game to the reality that things are not the same in college. I believe that his ability to adjust and develop a more rounded game will be his biggest assets going forward.
Great insight and exposition of Q's development. If Ty gets his knee problems solved we may see a parallel development.
I think we have a frosh nucleus of a great future.
As a fan, whenever you see a great frosh, you get excited, but in today's one (2,3) and done world, you don't want them to be TOO good because you know you will only see them for a truncated period of time.
Masterofreality
02-05-2017, 08:41 AM
Q seems to have the very important mental capacity to learn from what happens to him out on the court, and then adjust his game accordingly.
Case in point......in the last game he was able to drive to the basket on the left side and get his shot up with little opposition. The shot didn't always go down, but he still kept doing it after learning that he could. Didn't see that much earlier in the year. Yesterday he continued that approach and was initially successful in getting his shot up. But then he got that shot blocked by their big freshman (who is really good at that). So he adjusted. He took a few outside shots, made a couple, and then the next time he drove the left side and the big guy came over to block his shot, he dished it off for an easy basket.
With his ability to drive, and his ability to think and adjust while on the floor, if he develops a decent 3point shot and develops a really good mid-range shot, his ceiling is unlimited. In HS (especially playing the opposition he did, and with his size and strength) he could score over opposing players at will. Often he was the tallest and biggest player on the court. I like how he is adjusting his game to the reality that things are not the same in college. I believe that his ability to adjust and develop a more rounded game will be his biggest assets going forward.
Great observation on the son of a coach.
I wasn't necessarily on the Q bandwagon until the position became his at the St. John's game. But it seems once he knew that he wasn't leaving the court, his temerity disappeared and he took that team to be his own. This has been a wonderful thing to see.
You go Q. GO!
bleedXblue
02-05-2017, 09:19 AM
Love Q's defense too. I'm sure its been said...but he's big, athletic and can guard. 5 steals yesterday is HUGE. That's an element this team has been lacking.
klark
02-05-2017, 11:55 AM
I have been a fan of Q since my brother in law who is a sports anchor down in Lexington started sending me clips of him and said what a steal Mack got from the state of KY. I wonder if some of it has been Q respecting Ed until he had to take over for him? I love his last few games, always calm and in control of what is happening. I hope this kid stays for a while.
I have been a fan of Q since my brother in law who is a sports anchor down in Lexington started sending me clips of him and said what a steal Mack got from the state of KY. I wonder if some of it has been Q respecting Ed until he had to take over for him? I love his last few games, always calm and in control of what is happening. I hope this kid stays for a while.
Where would he be going? I think it just takes time when you step in as a freshman to get up to speed, and he's coming along great!
My man was even better against Creighton. Go Q!
XfansinKy
02-06-2017, 09:17 PM
I watched him just destroy these Ky high school kids but I didn't know he was so strong. Benching 185lbs 20x as a freshman guard. That's crazy.
GIMMFD
02-06-2017, 11:35 PM
I have been a fan of Q since my brother in law who is a sports anchor down in Lexington started sending me clips of him and said what a steal Mack got from the state of KY. I wonder if some of it has been Q respecting Ed until he had to take over for him? I love his last few games, always calm and in control of what is happening. I hope this kid stays for a while.
Can you explain the "I wonder if some of it has been Q respecting Ed" statement? I'm not sure what that exactly entitles (not being a smart ass, 100% curious)
bleedXblue
02-07-2017, 07:15 AM
I watched him just destroy these Ky high school kids but I didn't know he was so strong. Benching 185lbs 20x as a freshman guard. That's crazy.
As they say...."he is a grown man".
bobbiemcgee
02-07-2017, 01:27 PM
Rewatching game, Gus Johnson seems to have a "man crush" on Q.
klark
02-08-2017, 12:26 PM
Can you explain the "I wonder if some of it has been Q respecting Ed" statement? I'm not sure what that exactly entitles (not being a smart ass, 100% curious)
Just saying as a freshman playing behind one of the stars of the team, he may have been reluctant to try and do much. I think maybe he was trying to find his place, and that all changed when Ed went down. Also, if Ed comes back next year, along with Scruggs, you now have 3 players fighting for time. It's not a bad problem to have, but I do hope Coach can make all three happy with playing time is all.
Masterofreality
02-18-2017, 11:37 PM
.............Is impressing me less & less. 0-7 with no good shots tonight. 8 assists but only accounting for 16 total points contributed in some form by your PG is unacceptable. Was the Creighton game there a mirage?
XfansinKy
02-19-2017, 07:17 AM
He'll be OK in my opinion. After seeing him play before he got to X, he seems really tentative. Its like he's thinking instead of just playing ball. He's got some serious D1 athletic ability, but he's never been a good shooter. Shot about 25% from 3 at Taylor County HS. He didn't need to shoot very well when he could square up to shoot, ball fake, then go baseline or down the middle and dunk on a 6'2-6'3 center who can't jump. Thankfully, Scruggs is an all American combo guard, not just a specific one or two, so that will help with playing time. Naji can play point through power forward so that helps playing time too. I read yesterday that Naji is up to 215lbs and Paul Scruggs was the best perimeter defender in the country. ESPN actually had a neat little piece on Xavier's recruiting class. They had them at 11. I've seen them as high as 5th.
vee4xu
02-19-2017, 08:30 AM
.............Is impressing me less & less. 0-7 with no good shots tonight. 8 assists but only accounting for 16 total points contributed in some form by your PG is unacceptable. Was the Creighton game there a mirage?
This. Freshman, yes. Tough BE road venue, yes. But, the kid was Mr. Basketball in KY. On that basis alone, I expected more than what the young man produced last night.
Muskie
02-19-2017, 09:23 AM
He still distributing the ball and limiting turnovers. The shot will come back over time.
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bleedXblue
02-19-2017, 09:50 AM
Geesh!!!!
How do some not know that NOT having some of your best players on the floor affects a lot of other things?
Its much easier for Q to have an impact when Tre is getting a lot of attention.
Add to that, he cant be expected to just flip the switch and become a first team BE contributor every game. He's frosh starting like his 5th or 6th game?
XfansinKy
02-19-2017, 10:52 AM
This. Freshman, yes. Tough BE road venue, yes. But, the kid was Mr. Basketball in KY. On that basis alone, I expected more than what the young man produced last night.
He wasn't Mr Basketball. Should've been but it went to some kid that signed with NKU.
markchal
02-19-2017, 11:10 AM
His shooting is becoming more and more of a problem. His 3pt shooting is what it is, but we can't afford him to miss so much at the rim. His shooting percentage over the last few games is abysmal.
I'm starting to think more and more Creighton was just a good matchup (because they have no point guard) and people bought way too much into his hype after the first two starts post Ed.
THRILLHOUSE
02-19-2017, 12:03 PM
He wasn't Mr Basketball. Should've been but it went to some kid that signed with NKU.
Carson Williams. Who's having a pretty nice freshman season for the Norse. Averaging 10.7 ppg and 6 rpg.
THRILLHOUSE
02-19-2017, 12:05 PM
He still distributing the ball and limiting turnovers. The shot will come back over time.
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Yeah. Q's shot (or lack there of) is plenty frustrating right now, but I'm not gonna think he's gonna be a huge bust because he's struggling during this time. Now next season if we are full strength and he's still missing every shot at the rim, then I'll be concerned.
Juice
02-19-2017, 12:14 PM
His shooting is becoming more and more of a problem. His 3pt shooting is what it is, but we can't afford him to miss so much at the rim. His shooting percentage over the last few games is abysmal.
I'm starting to think more and more Creighton was just a good matchup (because they have no point guard) and people bought way too much into his hype after the first two starts post Ed.
Quentin will be a good player, he's not there yet. But holy shit, people were throwing around insane comparisons and statements one start in.
I think anyone dogging Q now is going to look pretty silly down the road a few years.
XUFan09
02-19-2017, 12:37 PM
He's good enough this year to be a contributor, but not good enough yet to be one of the main guys. The problem is that he has to fulfill the latter role right now.
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XU 87
02-19-2017, 12:43 PM
He's good enough this year to be a contributor, but not good enough yet to be one of the main guys. The problem is that he has to fulfill the latter role right now.
Yep. He was supposed to play 7-10 minutes per game, run the offense, play some defense, and give Edmund some rest. Now he is playing almost 40 minutes per game and is expected to be a significant contributor.
markchal
02-19-2017, 01:15 PM
Yep. He was supposed to play 7-10 minutes per game, run the offense, play some defense, and give Edmund some rest. Now he is playing almost 40 minutes per game and is expected to be a significant contributor.
The guy was a top 75 recruit wasn't he? There are plenty of freshmen around the country who play huge roles for their teams. While he may not have been expected to do too much before the season, he's had plenty of opportunity all year and it's fair to expect more than he's giving us lately in the scoring department.
Juice
02-19-2017, 01:21 PM
Yep. He was supposed to play 7-10 minutes per game, run the offense, play some defense, and give Edmund some rest. Now he is playing almost 40 minutes per game and is expected to be a significant contributor.
I don't expect him to be a significant contributor, I just wished he scored more than 16 points the last 4 games while being 6-34 from the field. I guess put me in the camp of somewhere between "he's only a freshman take it easy" and those who were anointing him our savior after the Creighton game.
waggy
02-19-2017, 01:42 PM
He's not the 2nd coming of Tu Holloway.
Sushi Balls to this point.
XU 87
02-19-2017, 01:46 PM
He's not the 2nd coming of Tu Holloway.
Sushi Balls to this point.
Tu Holloway averaged 5.5 points per game his freshman year, shooting 35% from the field. His assist/turnover ratio was 2.2/1.9. He struggled his freshman year.
And I bet he would have struggled even more if BJ Raymond, D. Brown, and CJ Anderson all got hurt and the team asked Tu to score more instead of just running the offense.
waggy
02-19-2017, 01:51 PM
Tu Holloway averaged 5.5 points per game his freshman year, shooting 35% from the field. His assist/turnover ratio was 2.2/1.9. He struggled his freshman year.
So I guess there's hope.
vee4xu
02-19-2017, 01:57 PM
He wasn't Mr Basketball. Should've been but it went to some kid that signed with NKU.
Close enough, the point remains the same.
vee4xu
02-19-2017, 02:00 PM
How many times have we heard coaches of all sorts say that there are no freshman anymore at this time of year. I am not suggesting that Q has to be on the all-freshman team nationally. But, someone of his caliber should be expected not to take an o-fer from the field in mid-February. Mack said last night in his post game comments, Q doesn't have the best range from outside, but that he has to get to the rim and make layups and/or make people bump him to get to the foul line. I completely agree with Coach Mack.
Muskie
02-19-2017, 08:17 PM
Tu Holloway averaged 5.5 points per game his freshman year, shooting 35% from the field. His assist/turnover ratio was 2.2/1.9. He struggled his freshman year.
And I bet he would have struggled even more if BJ Raymond, D. Brown, and CJ Anderson all got hurt and the team asked Tu to score more instead of just running the offense.
X100 on this post.
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X100 on this post.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
...and I'll double your 100! Geez, people! Get some perspective.
Harryfe
02-19-2017, 10:14 PM
Perhaps we can agree that to this point he has not proven to be one of the better FRESHMEN in the conference but perhaps he will be better in the coming years. Looking forward to Scruggs.
chico
02-19-2017, 10:33 PM
Tu Holloway averaged 5.5 points per game his freshman year, shooting 35% from the field. His assist/turnover ratio was 2.2/1.9. He struggled his freshman year.
And I bet he would have struggled even more if BJ Raymond, D. Brown, and CJ Anderson all got hurt and the team asked Tu to score more instead of just running the offense.
Great point. Anyone who's followed this program for any length of time knows how long the list of players who blossomed after their freshman year is.
X Factor
02-20-2017, 12:58 AM
Tu Holloway averaged 5.5 points per game his freshman year, shooting 35% from the field. His assist/turnover ratio was 2.2/1.9. He struggled his freshman year.
And I bet he would have struggled even more if BJ Raymond, D. Brown, and CJ Anderson all got hurt and the team asked Tu to score more instead of just running the offense.
Yes, and Tu also shot 78% from the FT line, and he was a great FT throughout his career. Goodin so far is shooting 54% from the FT line. CJ Anderson shot FT's better.
Not giving up on a Goodin, but I don't think it's too much to ask even a freshman to make a good % of FT's.
xavierj
02-20-2017, 06:44 AM
Perhaps we can agree that to this point he has not proven to be one of the better FRESHMEN in the conference but perhaps he will be better in the coming years. Looking forward to Scruggs.
For offense yes but he has been solid on defense and his 6 assists to 2 turnovers since Ed went down is solid.
Muskie
02-20-2017, 07:49 AM
Scruggs may be a very good player. I hope he's able to live up to this board's All-World Opinion of him. He's not played a second of college basketball.
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XfansinKy
02-20-2017, 07:53 AM
Carson Williams. Who's having a pretty nice freshman season for the Norse. Averaging 10.7 ppg and 6 rpg.
He actually is. He's better than I thought.
Classof1985
02-20-2017, 10:05 AM
Clearly Goodin needs to work on his shot. But his assist/turnover ratio is a respectable 1.9 to 1, which is the best on the team. Since he became the primary point guard (after UC game), he is averaging 5.6 assists per game with an assist/turnover ratio of 2.4 to 1. From the standpoint of being a distributor, he is actually better than Sumner.
He is being asked to assume a much greater role than he was ready for. He is doing some things well. Others, he needs to improve on. Bob Knight said that the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores. He will get better. In the meantime, there will be growing pains. We will have to accept that.
bjf123
02-20-2017, 12:37 PM
Sumner never was good at dishing the ball. He could, however, drive to the hoop and score and make his FTs. Though he struggled at times from the charity stripe.
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D-West & PO-Z
02-20-2017, 12:49 PM
Sumner never was good at dishing the ball. He could, however, drive to the hoop and score and make his FTs. Though he struggled at times from the charity stripe.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really? He averaged 5 assists/game.
He had 8 games with 7 assists or more.
D-West & PO-Z
02-20-2017, 12:54 PM
Only twice in the previous 15 seasons has a guard of ours averaged more assists than Sumner was this year. (Dee Davis in '14-'15 (6) and Tu Holloway in '10-11 (5.4))
scoscox
02-20-2017, 01:25 PM
Sumner was averaging more in every statistical category than Brunson when he went down FWIW. That may not still be completely true, but it was true at the time of his injury.
I don't think Q will continue to shoot quite this badly from the line or 3 and I think he'll certainly start hitting layups, but it is frustrating that he hasn't done it these last few games.
bleedXblue
02-20-2017, 01:47 PM
Only on this board is Q a stud and really developing (two weeks ago) and now he's a dud and questions are swirling around his ability to play at this level.
Some of you guys are complete knuckle heads.
Olsingledigit
02-20-2017, 02:48 PM
XU87 what was Tu's ft % his freshman year. Just curious.
XU 87
02-20-2017, 02:59 PM
XU87 what was Tu's ft % his freshman year. Just curious.
78%. Very good, although 7 points below his career average.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrell-holloway-1.html
Olsingledigit
02-20-2017, 03:38 PM
ThX. Better than Q's obviously
xuinmd
02-20-2017, 04:33 PM
I don't understand how anyone can be confident that a player who could not shoot against low level high school competition is going to be an a serviceable starting point guard in the big east. Too much like Larry Austin Jr>
GIMMFD
02-20-2017, 04:34 PM
ThX. Better than Q's obviously
Yeah but 85% career is above average, I'd be more than content with low 70s growing into around a 75-80 by the end of his time. He gets to the bucket, so he needs to knock these down.
MHettel
02-20-2017, 04:43 PM
I might not be exact on this memory, but does anyone remember TU as a Freshman in Puerto Rico tournament very early on and he made something like 28 out of 30 Fts in a 3 game tournament there? Am I way off? He lived at the line at the end of the games and closed that shit as a freshman.
XU 87
02-20-2017, 04:57 PM
I might not be exact on this memory, but does anyone remember TU as a Freshman in Puerto Rico tournament very early on and he made something like 28 out of 30 Fts in a 3 game tournament there? Am I way off? He lived at the line at the end of the games and closed that shit as a freshman.
I remember he made a bunch of free throws (like 8 in a row) at the end of the Memphis game.
XMuskieFTW
02-20-2017, 04:59 PM
Yeah but 85% career is above average, I'd be more than content with low 70s growing into around a 75-80 by the end of his time. He gets to the bucket, so he needs to knock these down.
I'm fairly certain Q shot around 71% from the free throw line last season. I don't think we can ever expect him to be 80%+ in his career, but 75% should be attainable at some point. Just can't keep shooting 54%.
xuinmd
02-20-2017, 05:23 PM
I'm fairly certain Q shot around 71% from the free throw line last season. I don't think we can ever expect him to be 80%+ in his career, but 75% should be attainable at some point. Just can't keep shooting 54%.
I would like to see a source or that information.
xavierj
02-20-2017, 05:47 PM
I would like to see a source or that information.
According to khsaa website he was 221 of 308, 71.8% last year. The year before 178 of 239 for 74.5%. And before that 215 of 304 for 71.4%.
paulxu
02-20-2017, 05:51 PM
Averaged 22.9 points and 7.9 rebounds per game for Taylor County, while shooting 47 percent from the field and 72 percent from the free-throw line
http://www.goxavier.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3961
According to khsaa website he was 221 of 308, 71.8% last year. The year before 178 of 239 for 74.5%. And before that 215 of 304 for 71.4%.
That sounds pretty convincing to me! I'm confident he'll get back to that range, and hopefully better, during his time here. The sooner, the better!
vee4xu
02-20-2017, 07:59 PM
Only on this board is Q a stud and really developing (two weeks ago) and now he's a dud and questions are swirling around his ability to play at this level.
Some of you guys are complete knuckle heads.
A bit frustrated there Blue?
xuinmd
02-20-2017, 08:44 PM
that is nothing short of great news, thanks
BandAid
02-20-2017, 10:08 PM
Yeah, Q is in a shooting funk. It won't last forever. (We all hope.) He's been getting pretty good looks more often than not.
Harryfe
02-20-2017, 10:33 PM
That sounds pretty convincing to me! I'm confident he'll get back to that range, and hopefully better, during his time here. The sooner, the better!
Is the free throw line in KY high school maybe only 12 feet :yahoo:
scoscox
02-21-2017, 12:09 AM
I don't understand how anyone can be confident that a player who could not shoot against low level high school competition is going to be an a serviceable starting point guard in the big east. Too much like Larry Austin Jr>
I'll take Q over LAJ every day and twice on sundays. it's not even close
xavierj
02-21-2017, 08:25 AM
For perspective, Russell Westbrook averaged 3 points a game his freshman year at UCLA and shot 55% from the line. He is not Westbrook but his overall numbers will improve. He also one of he smartest kids on the team.
bleedXblue
02-21-2017, 08:42 AM
I'll take Q over LAJ every day and twice on sundays. it's not even close
Exactly. This kid is going to be a major contributor. I see him being a facilitator first, shooter second. I like his size and ability to defend and create steals as well. He's a well rounded guy with a ton of upside.
xukeith
02-21-2017, 05:46 PM
What about a higher recruit Paul Scruggs next year?
Is not he supposed to be the stud next year?
AviatorX
02-21-2017, 05:55 PM
What about a higher recruit Paul Scruggs next year?
Is not he supposed to be the stud next year?
I mean, not a stretch at all to say Scruggs might struggle with some of the same things Q is going through right now. Together, they will be a seriously imposing defensive backcourt and teams will really have a tough time keeping them out of the lane, however.
MHettel
02-21-2017, 07:28 PM
I might not be exact on this memory, but does anyone remember TU as a Freshman in Puerto Rico tournament very early on and he made something like 28 out of 30 Fts in a 3 game tournament there? Am I way off? He lived at the line at the end of the games and closed that shit as a freshman.
Found what I was looking for. Tu went 10-10 from the line against Missouri in the first game. 1-2 from the field, 12 points total. He did not go to the line against VTech and scored 2 points. Against Memphis in the final he went 10-10 and scored 13 total.
So, 20-20 from the line, and 20 of his 27 points in the tourney came from the stripe.
Steel balls, even then.
Masterofreality
02-22-2017, 07:08 AM
Found what I was looking for. Tu went 10-10 from the line against Missouri in the first game. 1-2 from the field, 12 points total. He did not go to the line against VTech and scored 2 points. Against Memphis in the final he went 10-10 and scored 13 total.
So, 20-20 from the line, and 20 of his 27 points in the tourney came from the stripe.
Steel balls, even then.
And......Bottom Line. Tu could SCORE WHEN his team NEEDED him to score. He knew how to GET to the Line.
Without Tre, this Xavier team NEEDS Q to score, not just be a passive facilitator. Q averaged 22 in high school. When will we see it (other than at Creighton) ?
X-Fan
02-22-2017, 07:45 AM
I think Q is doing fine and showing quite a bit considering the circumstances.
Let's not forget that Tu had a talented and experienced team around him. BJ, CJ, Derrick, Love, Dante, & McLean. Unlike Q, Tu wasn't asked to carry the team, and didn't have to worry about losing key guys to injury. This is uncharted territory and Q is handling it better than most Frosh would.
I don't know if Q is the gym rat that TU was. TU was constantly working on every part of his game that he felt needed it. It would be great to see Q become more like TU in that way. Too bad TU isn't an assistant for this team (responsible for the PG). He could be extremely valuable.
Right now though, Q doesn't need to be "The guy" just because Tre and Ed are out. He just needs to be a leader and help set everyone around him up for success and make sure that he is using the backboard when he gets the opportunity to drive to the hoop. He must forget about trying to showing he can make a sick dunk (like Sumner), or that he can be as versatile as Tre. He just needs tonmake his points when he gets the chance. He may think using the backboard doesn't look as cool, but (like Gaston has learned recently) it is his friend.
Also, it'd be great to see some of these players who are struggling from the line to just take an extra second before shooting. Many of the missed free throws are hitting the front of the rim, which is often a sign of tiredness. A few more seconds to take a few more breaths and become relaxed and it's likely more of those FT shoots drop.
Feeling that Goodin is going to have a good game today... and he's gonna keep learning and getting better.
AviatorX
02-22-2017, 12:11 PM
One fair comparison of Tu and Q -- they probably both want the tape of their games against Marquette burned.
D-West & PO-Z
02-22-2017, 12:39 PM
One fair comparison of Tu and Q -- they probably both want the tape of their games against Marquette burned.
True.
Who knew that Marquette team that beat us at the time had 2 very good future NBA players on it, including one all star max player.
Muskie
02-22-2017, 12:43 PM
True.
Who knew that Marquette team that beat us at the time had 2 very good future NBA players on it, including one all star max player. They may have another if that Freshman continues to light the scoreboard up.
X-band '01
02-22-2017, 01:07 PM
Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder?
D-West & PO-Z
02-22-2017, 01:16 PM
Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder?
Yes. Jimmy Butler was last pick in 1st round and Jae Crowder was a second rounder. Both have completely exceeded expectations as NBA players.
xavierj
02-22-2017, 01:34 PM
They may have another if that Freshman continues to light the scoreboard up.
That guy scored a combined 6 points the game before and after Xavier. He can shoot but doubt he repeats that on the road at Xavier.
MHettel
02-22-2017, 02:01 PM
I think Q is doing fine and showing quite a bit considering the circumstances.
Let's not forget that Tu had a talented and experienced team around him. BJ, CJ, Derrick, Love, Dante, & McLean. Unlike Q, Tu wasn't asked to carry the team, and didn't have to worry about losing key guys to injury. This is uncharted territory and Q is handling it better than most Frosh would.
You are kind of making my point. Even WITH those experienced proven players, Tu still had the ball in his hands when it came time to close. It would have been a lot easier for him to defer, and yet he did not. HE won that Memphis game from the line.
xavierj
02-22-2017, 02:21 PM
You are kind of making my point. Even WITH those experienced proven players, Tu still had the ball in his hands when it came time to close. It would have been a lot easier for him to defer, and yet he did not. HE won that Memphis game from the line.
Tu was a great player. Hopefully Q can get there. But Tu averaged 5.5 as a freshman and Q already has more assists than TU did his freshman year and also has a much better assist to turnover ratio. In addition the competition overall is really not close.
AviatorX
02-22-2017, 02:41 PM
Tu was a great player. Hopefully Q can get there. But Tu averaged 5.5 as a freshman and Q already has more assists than TU did his freshman year and also has a much better assist to turnover ratio. In addition the competition overall is really not close.
Thank you.
Tu had some moments freshman year (kinda reminds me of Q making 4 threes in X's biggest win of the season) but made a gigantic leap from Freshman to Sophomore year. Let's stop comparing freshman playing in a top 3 conference forced into an unexpected role Q to the hindsight memory of Tu's freshman year.
Not to mention Tu is an all time great. There aren't going to be many like him.
D-West & PO-Z
02-22-2017, 02:50 PM
This is a tradition among Xavier fans, taking a Xavier player who had a great or good career and extrapolating that to every season they played. Other than some moments here and there (especially at the FT line) Tu had a pretty forgettable freshman year. I remember wishing we could trade him for SLU's freshman PG at the time. Tu had a great career he did not have a great or even really good freshman year. Q could easily do the same as well and in 10 years we may be having this same discussion again about our freshman PG and why cant he be more like Quentin Goodin.
This is a tradition among Xavier fans, taking a Xavier player who had a great or good career and extrapolating that to every season they played. Other than some moments here and there (especially at the FT line) Tu had a pretty forgettable freshman year. I remember wishing we could trade him for SLU's freshman PG at the time. Tu had a great career he did not have a great or even really good freshman year. Q could easily do the same as well and in 10 years we may be having this same discussion again about our freshman PG and why cant he be more like Quentin Goodin.
It's a full cycle of craziness!
Q... Keep using that backboard when driving to the hoop and watch how many more go in.
XfansinKy
02-22-2017, 10:36 PM
Q... Keep using that backboard when driving to the hoop and watch how many more go in.
Yep. Shoot more balanced too. He's going to be OK.
Yep. Shoot more balanced too. He's going to be OK.
I think he's going to be way more than OK.
Xuperman
02-22-2017, 10:47 PM
No doubt he is a star in the making. I posted earlier in the season I would take him over either of the StJohns freshman and felt the stink eye from some here....
Juice
02-22-2017, 11:06 PM
No doubt he is a star in the making. I posted earlier in the season I would take him over either of the StJohns freshman and felt the stink eye from some here....
Oooooooooooo..... not over Ponds but I like the confidence.
Masterofreality
02-23-2017, 08:58 AM
Whoa, there.
I'm sorry folks. Not hating but just being realistic. Forget the poor shooting and inability to finish at the rack...I just don't see the PG INSTINCTS that you have to have at this level. For all the crap that Dee Davis endured, he had those instincts.
Q had a weak ass, smaller guard defending him tonight. He only once decided to put his head down and take that punk to the tin. Otherwise he was passive, slow to get the team into the offense and many times deferred when he had chances to make an impact by scoring. Byron very seldom calls out a guy, but he did Q last night more than once. Q's assist total looks good on paper, but some of those are off called plays from the bench that aren't created by the PG and some are because Tre nails a 3 that Q made one pass off of. There are really no "wow" plays that are generated by PG creativity. For a guy who won the "Gatorade Player of the Year" in Kentucky, a lot ,ore should be expected......that is if you believe recruiting rankings. :rolleyes:
Sometimes basketball is obvious external skills, but sometimes the making of a player is innate. Sorry, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of "innate-ness" right now. Effort? Yeah, but very disappointing.
mistabeecee41
02-23-2017, 09:18 AM
Whoa, there.
I'm sorry folks. Not hating but just being realistic. Forget the poor shooting and inability to finish at the rack...I just don't see the PG INSTINCTS that you have to have at this level. For all the crap that Dee Davis endured, he had those instincts.
Q had a weak ass, smaller guard defending him tonight. He only once decided to put his head down and take that punk to the tin. Otherwise he was passive, slow to get the team into the offense and many times deferred when he had chances to make an impact by scoring. Byron very seldom calls out a guy, but he did Q last night more than once. Q's assist total looks good on paper, but some of those are off called plays from the bench that aren't created by the PG and some are because Tre nails a 3 that Q made one pass off of. There are really no "wow" plays that are generated by PG creativity. For a guy who won the "Gatorade Player of the Year" in Kentucky, a lot ,ore should be expected......that is if you believe recruiting rankings. :rolleyes:
Sometimes basketball is obvious external skills, but sometimes the making of a player is innate. Sorry, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of "innate-ness" right now. Effort? Yeah, but very disappointing.
uh, if plays called from the bench and passes to open shooters don't count as assists - what does?
You're also comparing freshmen Quentin Goodin to senior Dee Davis. We were all calling for Dee's head his first 1.5 seasons, before he finally figured it out.
Freshmen Dee (in the A-10) 1.07 A/T ratio
Freshmen Q (in the Big East) 2.06 A/T ratio
AviatorX
02-23-2017, 10:48 AM
uh, if plays called from the bench and passes to open shooters don't count as assists - what does?
You're also comparing freshmen Quentin Goodin to senior Dee Davis. We were all calling for Dee's head his first 1.5 seasons, before he finally figured it out.
Freshmen Dee (in the A-10) 1.07 A/T ratio
Freshmen Q (in the Big East) 2.06 A/T ratio
This is quickly becoming the most annoying thing on this board. We had people comparing him to Tu earlier in the thread!
If you have watched Q and not seen PG instincts, I'm not sure what to tell you -- did you see his incredible pick and roll passes to Gaston (blocked by Sanogo) and Jones (huge dunk)? That was just in last night's game, and his ability to read defenses in ball screen situations has been clear in almost every game since Ed went out. That's pretty important in today's college game.
I guess it's easy to come to the conclusion Q isn't cutting it when you're not going to count plays called from the bench and passes to players who make shots in Q's favor.
Everyone is frustrated with Q's finishing at the rim, but I think he has passed the PG skills test with flying colors. I bet Mack and co would agree.
GoMuskies
02-23-2017, 10:50 AM
I like Q a lot better when Q doesn't shoot.
He can shoot next year.
xavierj
02-23-2017, 10:57 AM
This is quickly becoming the most annoying thing on this board. We had people comparing him to Tu earlier in the thread!
If you have watched Q and not seen PG instincts, I'm not sure what to tell you -- did you see his incredible pick and roll passes to Gaston (blocked by Sanogo) and Jones (huge dunk)? That was just in last night's game, and his ability to read defenses in ball screen situations has been clear in almost every game since Ed went out. I guess it's easy to come to that conclusion when you're not going to count plays called from the bench and passes to players who make shots in Q's favor.
Everyone is frustrated with Q's finishing at the rim, but I think he has passed the PG skills test with flying colors.
I agree. Some of his passes are rediculous and the defense has no clue. Not sure I have seen many Xavier point guards pass line he does. Did Xavier not call plays from the bench before he arrived? He is also a pretty good defender. As for the slowness, I heard that was Macks call do to the lack of depth and injuries to slow the game down. Only issue right now with Q is between the ears. Needs to finish at the rim and be aggressive. If you do not see talent with him and a promising future, I am not sure what you are watching. He was supposed to play 15 minutes a game and learn from Edmond. Instead he is playing 38 and needs to be the guy. It is not unusual for a pomising freshman point gurad to struggle. That is one reason why Chris only wants freshman to learn one position. It takes time and we have no one else. My guess is MOR will be his biggest fan in a couple of years...
AviatorX
02-23-2017, 11:00 AM
I agree. Some of his passes are rediculous and the defense has no clue. Not sure I have seen many Xavier point guards pass line he does. Did Xavier not call plays from the bench before he arrived? He is also a pretty good defender. As for the slowness, I heard that was Macks call do to the lack of depth and injuries to slow the game down. Only issue right now with Q is between the ears. Needs to finish at the rim and be aggressive. If you do not see talent with him and a promising future, I am not sure what you are watching. He was supposed to play 15 minutes a game and learn from Edmond. Instead he is playing 38 and needs to be the guy. It is not unusual for a pomising freshman point gurad to struggle. That is one reason why Chris only wants freshman to learn one position. It takes time and we have no one else. My guess is MOR will be his biggest fan in a couple of years...
I am supremely confident that some of these posts will be hilarious when the Q/Scruggs backcourt is flying all over the court next season.
casualfan
02-23-2017, 11:13 AM
No doubt he is a star in the making. I posted earlier in the season I would take him over either of the StJohns freshman and felt the stink eye from some here....
What are you smoking and where can i get some?
GuyFawkes38
02-23-2017, 11:38 AM
This is a tradition among Xavier fans, taking a Xavier player who had a great or good career and extrapolating that to every season they played. Other than some moments here and there (especially at the FT line) Tu had a pretty forgettable freshman year. I remember wishing we could trade him for SLU's freshman PG at the time. Tu had a great career he did not have a great or even really good freshman year. Q could easily do the same as well and in 10 years we may be having this same discussion again about our freshman PG and why cant he be more like Quentin Goodin.
This is the truth. Holloway as a freshman had a subpar offensive rating of 91.4 (the next year he made a big jump). You just can't expect most freshman to be very productive and efficient.
xavierj
02-23-2017, 12:33 PM
Whoa, there.
I'm sorry folks. Not hating but just being realistic. Forget the poor shooting and inability to finish at the rack...I just don't see the PG INSTINCTS that you have to have at this level. For all the crap that Dee Davis endured, he had those instincts.
Q had a weak ass, smaller guard defending him tonight. He only once decided to put his head down and take that punk to the tin. Otherwise he was passive, slow to get the team into the offense and many times deferred when he had chances to make an impact by scoring. Byron very seldom calls out a guy, but he did Q last night more than once. Q's assist total looks good on paper, but some of those are off called plays from the bench that aren't created by the PG and some are because Tre nails a 3 that Q made one pass off of. There are really no "wow" plays that are generated by PG creativity. For a guy who won the "Gatorade Player of the Year" in Kentucky, a lot ,ore should be expected......that is if you believe recruiting rankings. :rolleyes:
Sometimes basketball is obvious external skills, but sometimes the making of a player is innate. Sorry, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of "innate-ness" right now. Effort? Yeah, but very disappointing.
Dee Davis was terrible as a freshman. He averaged 1.9 pts, shot 29% from 3 and had as many turnovers as assists. He did get better each year after that.
muskieindent
02-23-2017, 01:32 PM
Give this guy time to develop.He looks pretty good running the point.He needs to score more for us this year if we're going to do anything but he's being asked to do a lot.Not fair to compare him with anyone else at this point.
SemajParlor
02-23-2017, 06:51 PM
This is a tradition among Xavier fans, taking a Xavier player who had a great or good career and extrapolating that to every season they played. Other than some moments here and there (especially at the FT line) Tu had a pretty forgettable freshman year. I remember wishing we could trade him for SLU's freshman PG at the time. Tu had a great career he did not have a great or even really good freshman year. Q could easily do the same as well and in 10 years we may be having this same discussion again about our freshman PG and why cant he be more like Quentin Goodin.
Can someone dig up the posts of Dee Davis his Fr year?
GoMuskies
02-23-2017, 06:52 PM
Can someone dig up the posts of Dee Davis his Fr year?
Any year, really. He was pretty maligned all the way through.
SemajParlor
02-23-2017, 07:35 PM
Any year, really. He was pretty maligned all the way through.
A 79 offensive rating vs 106 is a pretty decent jump from a player.
GIMMFD
02-23-2017, 10:51 PM
Dear God you would think that the world is ending with some of you guys, we're being really harsh on a guy who had to see his minutes and role increase significantly. Is his shooting percentage frustrating so far? Sure, but to write the book on him before he even really starts out his career is mind-boggling. It would be different if he was the top rated prospect coming out of high school, but he's still top 100, and patience is a virtue. How many guys over the past few years have we complained about?? Junior year James Farr ring a bell anybody??? Relax, I know this season hasn't turned out to what we expected, but we're still going to make the NCAA Tournament, and that's still a mark of a good program.
Chill people. Just relax, all will be fine. But not soon.
letskeepitreal
02-23-2017, 11:22 PM
I think the most important thing about the PG position is that there is zero depth beyond freshman Goodin and that's really too much to ask for. The loss of Sumner and even Davis puts too much pressure on the freshman. I think he's doing a good job with assists and is inconsistent at best scoring. That'll come, especially next year when we will have Sumner, Goodin and Scruggs. Little bit of bad luck this year with Sumner, Myles, the loss of Ekiyor and even London but that'll happen when people are scrapping for playing time. As much as we'd like, we cant be in the sweet 16 year in and year out. I hope and expect to just get into the dance where we will likely be a one and done or at best the round of 32, especially if we drop to an 8 seed as being projected.
Masterofreality
02-24-2017, 07:27 AM
My guess is MOR will be his biggest fan in a couple of years...
Anyone who has read me on these boards for 20 years knows that I am probably one of the most positive defenders of our players. Criticism, for me, is difficult. But I'm also a realist and a former coach for over 23 years. I think I know what I'm looking at and when what I see is backed up by in game comments by Byron Larkin, arguably Xavier's greatest player...and then double downed on in the Coach's Show last night, what I think might be true.
I hope the kid improves, but a handful of assists- mostly off of set plays- and few turnovers when he is cautious with the ball and starts the offense with 18 seconds left on the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
I can only PRAY for improvement before New York.
American X
02-24-2017, 07:41 AM
Quentin Goodin should just quit so we can get a guy like Maurice Watson, Jr.
Byron Larkin, arguably Xavier's greatest player
He is no Johnny Wolf.
xavierj
02-24-2017, 08:00 AM
Anyone who has read me on these boards for 20 years knows that I am probably one of the most positive defenders of our players. Criticism, for me, is difficult. But I'm also a realist and a former coach for over 23 years. I think I know what I'm looking at and when what I see is backed up by in game comments by Byron Larkin, arguably Xavier's greatest player...and then double downed on in the Coach's Show last night, what I think might be true.
I hope the kid improves, but a handful of assists- mostly off of set plays- and few turnovers when he is cautious with the ball and starts the offense with 18 seconds left on the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
I can only PRAY for improvement before New York.
I get it but comparing him to others players later in their careers vs his freshman season, which none of them were thrust into what he has had to deal with is unfair. Also, those said players were average to below average there freshman years. Look at Russell Westbrook's freshman year at UCLA, it was below average. The next year he was dominant and a lottery pick. I have coached, played and been around basketball all of my life. The kid has some things you cannot teach. Hopefully the things you can teach will make him a great player. I tend to think he will be. As for a handful assists, he has 53 to 20 turnovers since the UC game and 45 to 16 as a starter. Chris must call a lot of set plays and also pass the ball...
ammtd34
02-24-2017, 09:37 AM
If he's getting assists from sets, shouldn't he get credit for getting into those sets?
bigdiggins
02-24-2017, 10:04 AM
Was the backwards over the head shot while not looking at the basket Dee Davis pulled at least once per game when he had no idea what do after driving into the lane a PG instinct, or did he learn that over four years?
AviatorX
02-24-2017, 10:25 AM
Anyone who has read me on these boards for 20 years knows that I am probably one of the most positive defenders of our players. Criticism, for me, is difficult. But I'm also a realist and a former coach for over 23 years. I think I know what I'm looking at and when what I see is backed up by in game comments by Byron Larkin, arguably Xavier's greatest player...and then double downed on in the Coach's Show last night, what I think might be true.
I hope the kid improves, but a handful of assists- mostly off of set plays- and few turnovers when he is cautious with the ball and starts the offense with 18 seconds left on the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
I can only PRAY for improvement before New York.
Wow, Byron and Mack described Q as lacking the innate skills required to be a PG?
No one is saying the way he is playing now is a recipe for real success, but it's puzzling to me that you haven't seen anything in him that makes you think he can play the point in the BE. I think I've seen more from him than most freshman in a similar spot.
American X
02-24-2017, 10:38 AM
We were all calling for Dee's head his first 1.5 seasons
I called for Dee's head all 4 seasons!
Masterofreality
02-24-2017, 10:54 AM
I called for Dee's head all 4 seasons!
And I respect your consistency....except after the SucKS game his Senior year! :laugh:
Masterofreality
02-24-2017, 10:59 AM
Wow, Byron and Mack described Q as lacking the innate skills required to be a PG?
.
No, but they made huge and continual points about Q having the ball in his hands at the end of the shot clock and rather than being aggressive to score or go to the hoop when refs are calling everything on a drive, Q defers and gives the ball up to a teammate in a difficult position. Not good instincts.
Some of this is a freshman dealing with a shot clock for the first time in his life, but aggressiveness is an instinct.
AviatorX
02-24-2017, 11:03 AM
No, but they made huge and continual points about Q having the ball in his hands at the end of the shot clock and rather than being aggressive to score or go to the hoop when refs are calling everything on a drive, Q defers and gives the ball up to a teammate in a difficult position. Not good instincts.
Some of this is a freshman dealing with a shot clock for the first time in his life, but aggressiveness is an instinct.
Ok, fair enough, I definitely agree with some of that. But I still see serious PG potential, which of the two, was by far the biggest question of Q at this level. Maybe I am overly optimistic, but I feel it's very likely that Q will recapture the aggressiveness and finishing he showed in HS. Frankly, based on what I had seen/heard about him coming in, I was worried he would have zero chops as a PG and basically just look like a slashing SG out there.
D-West & PO-Z
02-24-2017, 11:14 AM
Q has things to work on, to me passing isnt one of them.
He's avergaing 6.4 assists/game as a starter. That would be more than anyone at X in (at least) the last 16 years.
One one hand we have people complaining X doesnt run an offense and mad Mack doesnt run any sets and the other we have people saying Q's assists are misleading because most come from plays called from the bench? Does our offense run set plays or not?
I've seen several games where I though Q did a good job with setting up guys for easy buckets down low. Our big guys seem to have become more productive since he has started, some of that I get is necessity though.
Q has a lot to improve on, he is frustrating at times and makes stupid passes at times and does need to be more aggressive and finish but as freshman PGs at X goes he has to be one of the better ones we've had. How anyone can look at him and not be excited about his potential I dont understand.
Harryfe
02-24-2017, 11:50 PM
Q has things to work on, to me passing isnt one of them.
He's avergaing 6.4 assists/game as a starter. That would be more than anyone at X in (at least) the last 16 years.
One one hand we have people complaining X doesnt run an offense and mad Mack doesnt run any sets and the other we have people saying Q's assists are misleading because most come from plays called from the bench? Does our offense run set plays or not?
I've seen several games where I though Q did a good job with setting up guys for easy buckets down low. Our big guys seem to have become more productive since he has started, some of that I get is necessity though.
Q has a lot to improve on, he is frustrating at times and makes stupid passes at times and does need to be more aggressive and finish but as freshman PGs at X goes he has to be one of the better ones we've had. How anyone can look at him and not be excited about his potential I dont understand.
One of the reasons he gets more assists is that he rarely shoots and therefore passes and sometimes this leads to an assist. He is by far the worst shooting pg we have had in my memory. I know he is just a freshman but he has shown no ability to make shots and non shooters frequently do not improve a great deal. He is a terrible ft shooter and many of his fg attempts are "air balls" including lay ups. I am not optimistic about his improvement in the coming years. If the defense knows he can't shoot they will just back off him.
TUclutch
02-25-2017, 01:05 AM
One of the reasons he gets more assists is that he rarely shoots and therefore passes and sometimes this leads to an assist. He is by far the worst shooting pg we have had in my memory. I know he is just a freshman but he has shown no ability to make shots and non shooters frequently do not improve a great deal. He is a terrible ft shooter and many of his fg attempts are "air balls" including lay ups. I am not optimistic about his improvement in the coming years. If the defense knows he can't shoot they will just back off him.
If this is true, you are an idiot
xavierj
02-25-2017, 06:19 AM
One of the reasons he gets more assists is that he rarely shoots and therefore passes and sometimes this leads to an assist. He is by far the worst shooting pg we have had in my memory. I know he is just a freshman but he has shown no ability to make shots and non shooters frequently do not improve a great deal. He is a terrible ft shooter and many of his fg attempts are "air balls" including lay ups. I am not optimistic about his improvement in the coming years. If the defense knows he can't shoot they will just back off him.
I wouldn't say he rarely shoots, he has taken close to 9 a game, he is just not making them, but he is missing layups. As for free throws, he is better than bad. He shot over 72% in 5 years of high school ball. If you can make over 70 out of 100 for 5 years, you are not a horrible free throw shooter. Averages, average out. I bet he is around 70% next year. I also bet he makes more of his layups too.
Xavier
02-25-2017, 08:08 AM
One of the reasons he gets more assists is that he rarely shoots and therefore passes and sometimes this leads to an assist. .
"One reason he gets so many assists is because he passes (which leads to buckets) instead of shoots".
Yeah...thats how you get an assist.
GoMuskies
02-25-2017, 08:51 AM
Q shot 17 times in one game.
XfansinKy
02-25-2017, 08:52 AM
In high school, when Q went left to the basket he was so much more athletic than the defenders that he could lean right, and finish with his right hand. He was usually just too much of a leaper to get his shot blocked. He didn't need to finish with his off hand. Now I'm seeing him leaning in the air instead of going straight at the basket, causing him to awkwardly use his right hand and missing. That can be fixed. Practice, practice, practice.
xuwin
02-25-2017, 09:03 AM
In high school, when Q went left to the basket he was so much more athletic than the defenders that he could lean right, and finish with his right hand. He was usually just too much of a leaper to get his shot blocked. He didn't need to finish with his off hand. Now I'm seeing him leaning in the air instead of going straight at the basket, causing him to awkwardly use his right hand and missing. That can be fixed. Practice, practice, practice.
I would agree with you. With Q's body and strength he needs to invite contact when he drives to the basket instead of leaning to avoid getting hit. I think that will come with experience.
Irishjohn68
02-25-2017, 09:38 AM
He needs to become a better free throw shooter. 50% from the line will not cut it.
Harryfe
02-25-2017, 09:56 AM
I wouldn't say he rarely shoots, he has taken close to 9 a game, he is just not making them, but he is missing layups. As for free throws, he is better than bad. He shot over 72% in 5 years of high school ball. If you can make over 70 out of 100 for 5 years, you are not a horrible free throw shooter. Averages, average out. I bet he is around 70% next year. I also bet he makes more of his layups too.
There is all of this optimism for improvement in the coming years. How come he has gotten worse at free throws since h.s. ? The line is still 15' feet away with no one guarding you. All players don't improve in succeeding years. i e. Big Sean. Although I concede that most do. The best scenario is that Ed returns and either Q or Scruggs is back up. I guess Scruggs is a combo guard.
bjf123
02-25-2017, 10:14 AM
I wouldn't say he rarely shoots, he has taken close to 9 a game, he is just not making them, but he is missing layups. As for free throws, he is better than bad. He shot over 72% in 5 years of high school ball. If you can make over 70 out of 100 for 5 years, you are not a horrible free throw shooter. Averages, average out. I bet he is around 70% next year. I also bet he makes more of his layups too.
70% from the charity stripe is not enough from a starting PG. That's usually the guy you want to get fouled late in the game. He needs to be 80% at a minimum. Between 85-90% is ideal, thought there aren't too many of those.
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Juice
02-25-2017, 11:03 AM
70% from the charity stripe is not enough from a starting PG. That's usually the guy you want to get fouled late in the game. He needs to be 80% at a minimum. Between 85-90% is ideal, thought there aren't too many of those.
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Those are insane expectations.
xavierj
02-25-2017, 12:07 PM
70% from the charity stripe is not enough from a starting PG. That's usually the guy you want to get fouled late in the game. He needs to be 80% at a minimum. Between 85-90% is ideal, thought there aren't too many of those.
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Really? Chris Dunn never got out of the 60's in college, Russell Westbrook shot. 55% as a freshman from the line, Michael Jordan was never better than 74%, Rajon Rondo never got of the 50's, Isaiah Thomas shot 29% from 3 and 68% from the line his freshman year, Mike Conley was 68% at OSU, Allen Iverson 68% in college, and Markelle Fultz 64% to name a few. You will find more less than 80% than over.
xavierj
02-25-2017, 12:13 PM
There is all of this optimism for improvement in the coming years. How come he has gotten worse at free throws since h.s. ? The line is still 15' feet away with no one guarding you. All players don't improve in succeeding years. i e. Big Sean. Although I concede that most do. The best scenario is that Ed returns and either Q or Scruggs is back up. I guess Scruggs is a combo guard.
He has gotten worse because of a small sample size. I would lean on 5 years vs three months. He has only attempted 53 free throws this year. He was over 70% in high school with over 1000 attempts. As for him missing shots, I would be more concerned if he was nothing but a jump shooter. His game is in the lane and his FG% will go up when the game slows down and he gains confidence. He will never be a great three shooter so if he can improve to 35% as he gets older, that would be a huge plus.
Muskie
02-25-2017, 01:52 PM
It seems a little overly critical to complain about Q missing lay-ups. The whole team is shooting poorly inside 3 ft. That's been a year long problem.
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It seems a little overly critical to complain about Q missing lay-ups. The whole team is shooting poorly inside 3 ft. That's been a year long problem.
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On the bright side, we often get that offensive rebound......so we can miss again. I guess not that bright.
GIMMFD
02-25-2017, 10:36 PM
He has gotten worse because of a small sample size. I would lean on 5 years vs three months. He has only attempted 53 free throws this year. He was over 70% in high school with over 1000 attempts. As for him missing shots, I would be more concerned if he was nothing but a jump shooter. His game is in the lane and his FG% will go up when the game slows down and he gains confidence. He will never be a great three shooter so if he can improve to 35% as he gets older, that would be a huge plus.
Plus I also think that the tiredness in a Division I game is higher than in HS, I mean, these guys are athletic freaks he's going up against and he's playing a lot of minutes, so I'm sure that's not helping much out either.
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