Xavier v. Villanova (January 10, 2017) Big East Game #4

[drudy23]

The only other game where they shot more 3's was against Baylor. Coack Mack knows what he's talking about.

[xubrew]

Our ability to create shots through the offense was non existent. Pass it on the perimeter and chuck up a three. No one likes to go there, but Wright has Mack's number. He had no answers and the team made very few adjustments that worked. A shit sandwich for all involved. Oh well

Pretty much.

Things really aren't that bad. They're certainly not good, but the loss really doesn't mean anything or hurt anything. I do think we need to beat a tournament team on the road if we want to end up with a #4 seed or better, which we haven't done yet, but on paper we're no worse off now than we were before the game. Off paper, sometimes getting your nose bloodied motivates you to fight harder from that point on. We lost by even more a year ago.

[scoscox]

According to Banners, all of Sean's points came off putbacks. I mean that is just embarassing coaching. How do you not make that adjustment?

[xu82]

Yeah, but we looked similar to this vs Baylor and who knows how we'll look vs Butler, Creighton and UC on the road. I'm a tad bit concerned.

I'm more than a tad concerned, but trying to calm myself. I see positives, but also glaring weak points. We need more than Gaston scoring inside every third game. That takes the pressure off the 3 pointers.

[drudy23]

Sometimes you get blown out. Learn and be ready next time.

With that being said...I think we're going to struggle against good teams. We just don't have the balance after the big 3. They're good enough to carry us to victory, but not every game, especially against quality coaching. That doesn't bode well for getting to the 2nd weekend of the tournament.

[GoMuskies]

So....where does this leave us in the #1 seed conversation?

[scoscox]

Creighton concerns me more than Butler, but neither of them are the well-oiled machine that Nova is. Nova is so incredibly locked into their identities. Creighton has the talent, but I don't think they are on that level yet.

[xu82]

According to Banners, all of Sean's points came off putbacks. I mean that is just embarassing coaching. How do you not make that adjustment?

I'm not into coach bashing at this point. We lost a game on the road to the defending champs. Lost big, I don't like it, but I trust our coach.

[xu82]

So....where does this leave us in the #1 seed conversation?

Where we started, in the premature selection state.

(It can happen!)

[xubrew]

So....where does this leave us in the #1 seed conversation?

About where we were after the loss at Colorado.

[X-ceptional]

Where we started, in the premature selection state.

(It can happen!)

It happens to everyone!




Oh... premature SELECTION

[bleedXblue]

We don't commit to getting the ball inside. We made some 3's early and never went back. That's mainly on Mack.

Nova shot 70% from the field in the second half. I see vey little concern with the defense.

Mack's sit back and play man to man style has not worked. I think its more a result of personnel, but I wish we had a defense that really made an emphasis on pressuring the ball and creating more turnovers.

[IM4X]

Nova is not that good. we have made them look like unlv. so scared. so bad from deep. no inside attack. mack's been routinely embarassed by Wright

Agreed. While it's easy to blame the game on just the players (and there was plenty of bad playing) I was very disappointed with Mack's lack of coaching tonight and how poorly it appeared he prepared his team for this team. We can talk about players having an off game, but this was not just about X players all going cold. It's about our players taking bad shots and not hustling. It's about them being in a funk for long stretches and not playing smart or hustling for much of the game and with no real adjustments made by the coaches - Players just kept throwing up a bunch of 3s with along with no one crashing the boards. Mack looked as lethargic and unprepared during the game as the players did.

I am not even sure what we were doing on offense. If I am Chris Mack, I am owning much of this blowout- Not necessarily for the loss to a very good team on their home court- but for not being able to do much of anything to light a fire under my player's asses and for not having any answers for how to stop the bleeding other than continuing to allow them to launch 3s.

Everyone gave up for X tonight- including the coaches. Just embarrassing.

Though I think (at least I hope) everyone collectively will see how crappy an effort it was after the first 14 or so minutes... and start playing and coaching like every play matters- the way Villanova ALWAYS does.

[xu82]

It happens to everyone!




Oh... premature SELECTION

Just glad we got some action, really.....

[Caf]

Limited yes, but Nova puts up little to not resistance in the paint. Sean is excellent with his drop step and finish. It was pretty apparent they had no answer for him I thought.

I'm not putting much stock in this game though, just like last year. We shot 29% from the field and 18% from three. That's probably not happening again this year. Every single player with a ball-handling role got exposed. It was good to see Myles out there. Can't wait for those shots to start falling.

I really couldn't disagree with you more. I think both Gaston and O'Mara were non-factors. O'Mara's points were off of put backs or fumbled balls. We have absolutely no offense through our true big men. The 2 of them combined for just 7 shots. They didn't draw a single foul. I have seen no indication that Mack has any intent to run any of our offense through them.

What they do give this offense are second chances through rebounds. That's not enough. Especially if we want to give our guards more room to shoot.

[IM4X]

Ugh... Villanova teams (under Wright) always get better (crisper passes, better cuts, smarter shots, increased intensity, better strokes) as the game progresses... and X often seems to get flustered and lazy and sloppy and frustrated and tend to fizzle. X has plenty of talent and sure- a home court crowd would have helped a bit- But our guys need to play smarter, move better and anticipate better. Unfortunatley tonight they were often a step slow or we're caught off guard or were unsure of what to do on defense at times and especially on offense other than launching 3s.

It would be more comforting to hear Mack and players taking ownership of everything they collectively did not do well and then and then proving they know how to fix it.

[vee4xu]

The low post game is not good. Comparing O'Mara and Gaston of Farr and Reynolds is no comparison by any good measure. Not criticism, just fact.

[bleedXblue]

Agreed. While it's easy to blame the game on just the players (and there was plenty of bad playing) I was very disappointed with Mack's lack of coaching tonight and how poorly it appeared he prepared his team for this team. We can talk about players having an off game, but this was not just about X players all going cold. It's about our players taking bad shots and not hustling. It's about them being in a funk for long stretches and not playing smart or hustling for much of the game and with no real adjustments made by the coaches - Players just kept throwing up a bunch of 3s with along with no one crashing the boards. Mack looked as lethargic and unprepared during the game as the players did.

I am not even sure what we were doing on offense. If I am Chris Mack, I am owning much of this blowout- Not necessarily for the loss to a very good team on their home court- but for not being able to do much of anything to light a fire under my player's asses and for not having any answers for how to stop the bleeding other than continuing to allow them to launch 3s.

Everyone gave up for X tonight- including the coaches. Just embarrassing.

Though I think (at least I hope) everyone collectively will see how crappy an effort it was after the first 14 or so minutes... and start playing and coaching like every play matters- the way Villanova ALWAYS does.

Uh no.....gave up? Come on.

The only time I was pissed with effort was on a really bad turnover by Blueitt late in the game with a really lazy pass.. He should have been pulled from the game, but Mack did nothing,

[IM4X]

Our ability to create shots through the offense was non existent. Pass it on the perimeter and chuck up a three. No one likes to go there, but Wright has Mack's number. He had no answers and the team made very few adjustments that worked. A shit sandwich for all involved. Oh well

Bingo.

[xu82]

The low post game is not good. Comparing O'Mara and Gaston of Farr and Reynolds is no comparison by any good measure. Not criticism, just fact.

I think it's really just missing Farr, so I'm praying Gaston can do what we've seen in some games and Sean can slow his brain down to give us inside options when it counts.

[scoscox]

I really couldn't disagree with you more. I think both Gaston and O'Mara were non-factors. O'Mara's points were off of put backs or fumbled balls. We have absolutely no offense through our true big men. The 2 of them combined for just 7 shots. They didn't draw a single foul. I have seen no indication that Mack has any intent to run any of our offense through them.

What they do give this offense are second chances through rebounds. That's not enough. Especially if we want to give our guards more room to shoot.

You disagree that Sean has an excellent drop step? Because he does. You disagree that they had no answer for him? He had 6 and 6 in 13 minutes without getting a single ball thrown to him through the offense. I agree we need more from them, but they can't do anything without someone passing them the ball.

Everything you just said is an indictment on coaching and gameplan, not Sean or Gaston. I agree we need more from them. You need to convince our coaches and our guards who apparently don't agree.

[scoscox]

Uh no.....gave up? Come on.

The only time I was pissed with effort was on a really bad turnover by Blueitt late in the game with a really lazy pass.. He should have been pulled from the game, but Mack did nothing,

That's all that upset you? Not JP getting roasted and reaching on two straight possessions and giving up a two handed dunk to josh hart? Not the constant settling for threes instead of throwing it inside? There was plenty to be upset with effort wise.

[drudy23]

Reynolds and Farr were condors. They were big who played even bigger because of their wingspan and physicality. We don't have anything close to those two.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Yeah, but we looked similar to this vs Baylor and who knows how we'll look vs Butler, Creighton and UC on the road. I'm a tad bit concerned.

Yeah, X has yet to play well in a true road game. Obviously, played good enough to win at a mediocre G'Town, but even that game was closer than it should have.

Winning on the road is tough, but it's frustrating how poorly they've been in these road games. Hopefully it turns around on Saturday.

[scoscox]

Reynolds and Farr were condors. They were big who played even bigger because of their wingspan and physicality. We don't have anything close to those two.

Agreed. They were intimidators on both ends. Our 1-3-1 suffers too. Their length and mobility is what made it work.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Let's face it, our bigs are really NOT outstanding. Not bad, just average. So far, they've not shown that they can be counted on to win the game for us. I guess it is difficult to get good big players.

[Caf]

You disagree that Sean has an excellent drop step? Because he does. You disagree that they had no answer for him? He had 6 and 6 in 13 minutes without getting a single ball thrown to him through the offense. I agree we need more from them, but they can't do anything without someone passing them the ball.

Everything you just said is an indictment on coaching and gameplan, not Sean or Gaston. I agree we need more from them. You need to convince our coaches and our guards who apparently don't agree.

I don't see O'Mara having that offensive prowess nor do I think 6 points is enough to be considered unstoppable.

[IM4X]

Uh no.....gave up? Come on.

The only time I was pissed with effort was on a really bad turnover by Blueitt late in the game with a really lazy pass.. He should have been pulled from the game, but Mack did nothing,

Defense fell apart for much of the second half. I would say launching a bunch of fast 3s and not crashing the boards falls under the category of giving up. Or at least the category of "playing like I don't really care if we win."

Also- it sure looked like Mack gave up at about he 9 minute mark. There were several times where he could have called TO to try to light a fire under his players but just chose to let them play on aimlessly, taking low percentage shots with no team effort to crash the boards. Not saying X could have won but - watch it again- it sure looked like he just wanted to get out of there instead of fighting to the end.

[IM4X]

Reynolds and Farr were condors. They were big who played even bigger because of their wingspan and physicality. We don't have anything close to those two.

Good point.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's one game, and on the road against the defending champs. Maybe this butt kicking makes them more coachable, and we work Myles back into the picture. I regret the Colorado loss, but other than that a good season so far. They will learn from tonight.

This is about where I am at.

Can't say I am shocked. I also dont think this game has much bearing on the rest of the season. Move on and try and get a top 15 road win at Butler Saturday.

[IM4X]

The low post game is not good. Comparing O'Mara and Gaston of Farr and Reynolds is no comparison by any good measure. Not criticism, just fact.

This is true. Gaston and O'Mara and Jones are good enough at times- but they are clearly not farr and Reynolds in size and even overall ability.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Pretty much.

Things really aren't that bad. They're certainly not good, but the loss really doesn't mean anything or hurt anything. I do think we need to beat a tournament team on the road if we want to end up with a #4 seed or better, which we haven't done yet, but on paper we're no worse off now than we were before the game. Off paper, sometimes getting your nose bloodied motivates you to fight harder from that point on. We lost by even more a year ago.

Agree. I dont think this means a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Win at home and win on the road against bottom of conference and we are in good shape.

[scoscox]

I don't see O'Mara having that offensive prowess nor do I think 6 points is enough to be considered unstoppable.

You're not doing much for your credibility here. 6 points and 6 rebounds in 13 minutes is great production. Especially when he did not have the ball thrown to him on the block once. Can you not appreciate that? Sean is limited down low, but the one nice thing I'd say about him is that he is pretty effective at the drop step fwiw. He's also the most efficient offensive player on the team right now.

Add to that Nova is just one of the teams that Sean can go to work against. They don't have anyone big enough to bang with him. We should have utilized him more.

[paulxu]

I did not get to see this game. I'm glad I didn't.
This thread is too long to read to get any insight on what happened. We probably shot like shit.
And, there's got to be at least one or two Fire Mack posts.
I'm going to drink Bourbon and get ready for Butler.

[muskiefan82]

Sometimes you just get your ass kicked. That's it.

[X-ceptional]

Sometimes you're the windshield. Sometimes you're the bug. Sometimes you're Providence and you lose to Depaul.

[sgarcia]

Sometimes you just get your ass kicked. That's it.

Shouldn't happen in the same place every year.

[mistabeecee41]

I live in Philly and unfortunately, for the 2nd straight year, thought it was good idea to buy (way above face value) tickets.

Do you think Chris will reimburse me for having to sit through 80 minutes of that?

[sgarcia]

I live in Philly and unfortunately, for the 2nd straight year, thought it was good idea to buy (way above face value) tickets.

Do you think Chris will reimburse me for having to sit through 80 minutes of that?

Haha. This is the 2nd straight year I didn't buy tickets. The 1st 2 years were enough for me.
Me.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Shouldn't happen in the same place every year.

If it is though at least it is happening against arguable the best college basketball program in the country over the last 3 years.

We will get them there eventually, not that big of a deal.

[X Factor]

We will get them there eventually, not that big of a deal.

I'm sure that's what Dayton fans used to say about us.

[X-ceptional]

Welp, that's enough for me!

[xufan2434]

And I completely get that. Team was shook, hell I was shook. Just having gone back and watched what happened after the fall, they made the same mistakes over and over again that they had previously made the 2 trips there prior to that. I'm just hoping tonight has a different script instead of that becoming the narrative of Mack teams in the Pavillion. I'm confident they will, need to take care of the ball and obviously that starts with Ed who's playing his best in an X uni currently

Narrative.

[American X]

I wonder if the team got some bad Philly Cheesesteaks.

[xufan2434]

Let's just kick the shit out of Butler

[American X]

Sometimes you're the windshield. Sometimes you're the bug.

"Life is a fragile thing, Har. One minute you're chewin' on a burger, the next minute you're dead meat."

[paulxu]

I wonder if the team got some bad Philly Cheesesteaks.

Hah! Good times.

[Smails]

In the vacuum of Xavier fandom last night was an atrocity..in the larger picture it's a road loss to the number 3 team in the country. Look at what happened in college hoops last night:

#1 loses on the road to #10 by 21
#7 loses on the road to #9 by 16
#25 loses on the road to unranked
Indiana has a 1-4 record on the Big 10.

We're on to Butler

[Caf]

You're not doing much for your credibility here. 6 points and 6 rebounds in 13 minutes is great production. Especially when he did not have the ball thrown to him on the block once. Can you not appreciate that? Sean is limited down low, but the one nice thing I'd say about him is that he is pretty effective at the drop step fwiw. He's also the most efficient offensive player on the team right now.

Add to that Nova is just one of the teams that Sean can go to work against. They don't have anyone big enough to bang with him. We should have utilized him more.

Haha take it easy. I've seen Sean play plenty of basketball as I'm sure you have. He does have a nice drop step, but that is not enough of a reason to feed him on offense. 6 points is 13 minutes off of rebounds and fumbled balls is good, but I don't see him being able to do more. He dropped a few great passes and is not good enough at passing out of the post. Mack has always gotten big men involved with the offense. He hasn't this year and I think he has good reason for it.

[ammtd34]

I assumed there would be some overreaction here, but I didn't expect "Nova isn't that good" to be part of it.

They just won a national championship, including a Final Four win by 44 points. Their main loss was their PG, and they have a better PG this year. Is there something I'm missing?

[KabeX]

I think those saying Nova wasn't THAT good were more upset than anything. Rational minds can see that banner hanging in their rafters and Brunson is already as good or better than Arch IMO. They are indeed that good. But we did indeed play that bad last night. Anyone remember what happened after we got drilled last year in Philly? Now granted it's on the road this time and Butler is better but I'll take the same result. I'm actually a little more concerned with Creighton at home on Mon.

[KsMuskie]

A few things that trouble me with this team:

1) Little mental toughness. When things begin to unravel, we have no one to stop the bleeding.
2) Poor team defense. Last night, we were continually schooled by Nova when we hedged on their ball screens and didn't quickly recover or have any weak side defense (Kaiser was abysmal). This has to stop.
3) Individual defense isn't great and we have no defensive stopper. JP can't guard anyone. Malcolm is no Remy Abel.
4) the 1-3-1 defense shouldn't be used often as Gaston or O'Mara can't defend the inside.
5) Post play is extremely inconsistent. Gaston has trouble finishing. Sean is too predictable and too slow against more athletic bigs.
6) If we don't bury the three, we will lose.

Mack has plenty of things to work on. I hope he can coach us through this.

[GoMuskies]

I assumed there would be some overreaction here, but I didn't expect "Nova isn't that good" to be part of it.

They just won a national championship, including a Final Four win by 44 points. Their main loss was their PG, and they have a better PG this year. Is there something I'm missing?

I'm pretty sure it's not "Nova isn't that good." It's more, "Nova isn't THAT good." As in, they shouldn't be able to outscore us by 33 over the last 28 minutes.

[muethibp]

Reynolds and Farr were condors. They were big who played even bigger because of their wingspan and physicality. We don't have anything close to those two.

This is so true. In the run up to this year, and all the optimism and lofty rankings, I have always thought we were understating the level of losses off last year's team. Reynolds and Farr were HUGE, literally and figuratively. And Remy was an important defensive cog. Their replacements - and I don't mean this critically, just trying to be objective of it - are just not as physical or talented or athletic. I have a few concerns that the season could kind of get away.

[Xville]

I think those saying Nova wasn't THAT good were more upset than anything. Rational minds can see that banner hanging in their rafters and Brunson is already as good or better than Arch IMO. They are indeed that good. But we did indeed play that bad last night. Anyone remember what happened after we got drilled last year in Philly? Now granted it's on the road this time and Butler is better but I'll take the same result. I'm actually a little more concerned with Creighton at home on Mon.

yeah for those saying that "nova is not that good" Not sure what you think is good then. They are that good...maybe not as good as last year because I think Arc meant so much to that team. However, they are a legitimate top 5 team again.

Anyways, as far as the bolded part...i remember having a great regular season but then a flameout in the tourney. I really don't want to do that again. Though maybe that wouldn't be that bad, because my expectations for this team are nowhere near what they were for last years.

[Caf]

This is so true. In the run up to this year, and all the optimism and lofty rankings, I have always thought we were understating the level of losses off last year's team. Reynolds and Farr were HUGE, literally and figuratively. And Remy was an important defensive cog. Their replacements - and I don't mean this critically, just trying to be objective of it - are just not as physical or talented or athletic. I have a few concerns that the season could kind of get away.

Speaking strictly about Remy, I think Malcolm Bernard has done a sufficient job at replacing him. His stats are very comparable to Remy's last season and he's a much better rebounder.

[KabeX]

Agree but it was a fade away 3 ... Who knows what happens if that one missed. But your point is well taken. The expectation is certainly higher now. Anything less than a Sweet 16 is disappointing. And we're all wondering when that Final 4 door will be blown open. I will say this - while we have recruited really good players prior to joining the BE, we have a better shot at getting MORE of them now. Multiple 4 stars like this year and even (hopefully) some 5 stars. BUT - what is needed most are STEEL BALLS. You just can't replace that. And we need more than 1 player with STEEL BALLS. I know crap about recruiting but I think there should be a category for SBF - or STEEL BALL FACTOR. The higher STEEL content the better.

Wow that response quickly went off the STEEL rails. I do feel better though.

[GetUp5]

Did anyone REALLY think we'd win last night? I mean, REALLY, legitimately think we were going to win?

The first 10 minutes were great. The last 30, not so much. Nova is better. Very concerning that we GAVE UP the last 15 minutes of the game.

Beat Butler Saturday, beat Creighton Monday and all is right in the world. No one is going to hold a loss at Nova against us.

[Muskie]

This team get's frantic and their shot selection goes out the window. That's the difference between Baylor (along with missed lay-ups and 3 footers) and Villanova. You can't go 1-15 against a Top Ten Team. Part of that is horrible shot selection.

[mirabilelectu]

I'm pretty sure it's not "Nova isn't that good." It's more, "Nova isn't THAT good." As in, they shouldn't be able to outscore us by 33 over the last 28 minutes.

Couldn't agree more. I get that we console ourselves in different ways, with different rationales, but I don't understand how claiming that Nova is a top team (they are, not doubt) is any consolation. Maybe I was, and still am, too high on this team's potential, but this line of thinking seems to be "losing by 25 is okay because we aren't close to the caliber of these top teams." FWIW, we've played two top teams this season, albeit on their home courts, and have been completely dismantled. I guess I don't understand it because I think we have the talent to compete with those teams, at home or on the road. Just venting a little bit after that loss, no disrespect to anyone who takes solace in that rationale.

Onto the game; does anyone else think one of our biggest problems is that our offense (to a great extent) and sometimes defense (to a lesser extent) are too rigid? An example from last night's game; we run a good offense for the first few minutes, got a few open looks, got out in transition, and then Nova switched to zone (match-up and some traditional), and from there on out continued to switch up their defensive looks every so often. But we did not respond (seemingly, maybe someone saw something I didn't?) by switching up our offensive set, just kept running the same patterns very far out from the basket. I thought we played very good defense in the first half, they hit a couple of contested and tough shots, but for the most part our intensity was there. Nova adjusted at half. Even when we deployed the 1-3-1, they torched it, almost like they were licking their chops waiting for it.

IMO, Farr and Reynolds were our safety nets last year; not only did they eat up rebounds on misses, we also ran our offense through them a lot. Gaston and OM haven't filled that facilitating void (though I'm not sure we've seen our team give them an opportunity to do so FWIW), and unless Ed is getting into the middle (and our best opponents clog it up) we settle for contested jumpers.

Maybe Mack doesn't trust our guys to run other offensive sets? I just don't understand how a team with a few very good scorers is so rigid in its offensive philosophy.

[whopper]

In basketball the best players play as if everyone is their worst enemy. I have friends a long time ago that played some college and they would play against me(their friend) as if I was their enemy, which surprised me..I had to create enemies to be effective. Villanova plays against us as if they hated us, I don't get the impression that anyone on this team of nice guys really looks at the enemy as a junkyard dog looks at steak(my friend who made it had a screw loose by most standards on the court). Hart (who is Dennis Johnson reincarnated), Jenkins (who will find a spot like Draymon green who I hardly heard of in college), Brunson (who is already way better than his father) and even Bridges may get a taste at the next level and play like the opponent is their worst enemy . I don't know if you can coach that and a team of nice guys will make you proud and get a sweet 16 if you are lucky. I will say the 2 offensive fouls against Gaston(due to his inability to really lift) hurt momentum and JP 2nd foul early on a 3 (gates did the same) hurt more than statistically as it changed rotation. We shall see, goal is to make the dance and the good/great big East makes a 4 seed like gold now, not a given. One deserving big East team may get chopped due to numbers, let it not be X.

[ammtd34]

I don't have a need to justify losing by 25. To me, losing by 6 and losing by 25 are the same. If anyone is worried about the team's psyche, I give the players and coaching staff more credit than that. X was a 2 seed last year after losing at Villanova by 30 and went on a run that included beating Villanova at home (one of 3 teams to beat them in the calendar year).

They didn't hit shots last night.

[Woodburn]

One deserving big East team may get chopped due to numbers, let it not be X.

I just wanted you to know that I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

[Lamont Sanford]

Let me cut right to the chase, Jay Wright once again completely outcoached Mack. He once again made Xavier his bitch.

[X-ceptional]

Let me cut right to the chase, Jay Wright once again completely outcoached Mack. He once again made Xavier his bitch.

There's no shame in being outcoached by Jay Wright, but you're right, he took it to another level last night. Just one example (of the several already discussed)... those two dunks in a row on the 1-3-1. Nova couldn't wait for us to flash that.

[AviatorX]

In basketball the best players play as if everyone is their worst enemy. I have friends a long time ago that played some college and they would play against me(their friend) as if I was their enemy, which surprised me..I had to create enemies to be effective. Villanova plays against us as if they hated us, I don't get the impression that anyone on this team of nice guys really looks at the enemy as a junkyard dog looks at steak(my friend who made it had a screw loose by most standards on the court). Hart (who is Dennis Johnson reincarnated), Jenkins (who will find a spot like Draymon green who I hardly heard of in college), Brunson (who is already way better than his father) and even Bridges may get a taste at the next level and play like the opponent is their worst enemy . I don't know if you can coach that and a team of nice guys will make you proud and get a sweet 16 if you are lucky. I will say the 2 offensive fouls against Gaston(due to his inability to really lift) hurt momentum and JP 2nd foul early on a 3 (gates did the same) hurt more than statistically as it changed rotation. We shall see, goal is to make the dance and the good/great big East makes a 4 seed like gold now, not a given. One deserving big East team may get chopped due to numbers, let it not be X.

Nope.

Some people have a short memory. X was 19-12 in the regular season two years ago and got a 6 seed. But after losing to the best team in the country we're on the bubble? Jesus. Not sure how we can really talk seeding when there's still around 10 huge games left on the schedule.

[mirabilelectu]

I don't have a need to justify losing by 25. To me, losing by 6 and losing by 25 are the same. If anyone is worried about the team's psyche, I give the players and coaching staff more credit than that. X was a 2 seed last year after losing at Villanova by 30 and went on a run that included beating Villanova at home (one of 3 teams to beat them in the calendar year).

They didn't hit shots last night.

I agree, to players and the staff, I bet this loss isn't much different from a loss by 6. My larger point was that we are exhibiting some trends, both in losses and wins, that are a bit troubling. Shots don't really fall for this team at the rate that it seems some people think they do; most of the guys on our team have average to sub par 3 point shooting percentages. My question is, because I do think they are better shooters than that, why aren't we doing more to effect open shots?

[XU3232]

I really thought this team would eventually start shooting the ball better but I'm worried that will not happen. They had so many open looks last night and to finish the game 1 for their last 22 from 3 is a joke... even if it is on the road.

[bleedXblue]

There's no shame in being outcoached by Jay Wright, but you're right, he took it to another level last night. Just one example (of the several already discussed)... those two dunks in a row on the 1-3-1. Nova couldn't wait for us to flash that.

I knew the 1-3-1 was coming and called it with my buddies during the commercial break. If I know it........do you think Jay Wright knows it?

Mack and staff got steamrolled last night. Pummeled. As if we learned not one damn thing that's happened the last 3 times we've played there.

Its one thing to lose...its another to keep doing the same damn thing every time we go there and expect a different outcome.

[xufan2434]

Let me cut right to the chase, Jay Wright once again completely outcoached Mack. He once again made Xavier his bitch.

This has been the case since we got in the BE. And to be honest the way Mack talks about Nova, I'm pretty sure he's aware.

I've had my time already this morning, screw it. I'm sure Mack didn't sleep at all last night and I'll back our guy till he can figure it out. He's been all about the program since he took over and I truly believe he's the one to stay for a long long time. We're on to Butler. I'm so sick of those pretentious dbags calling X a dirty program. I hope JP and Ed dunk all over em. Let's get the real Myles Davis back this week and get rolling

[ammtd34]

Let me cut right to the chase, Jay Wright once again completely outcoached Mack. He once again made Xavier his bitch.

It still comes down to execution. If X made their season average from 3, they hit 11 instead of 6. Mack had a perfect set called early in the second half, but Rashid pushed off. It showed that Mack wanted to go inside early in the half, but that's not what happened on the floor. Players still have to make plays.

[scoscox]

I am embarrassed whenever we switch to the 1-3-1. Any well-coached team eats a 1-3-1 for lunch. They can't wait for it. The only reason it was relatively effective last year is because James and Jalen were long and athletic enough to defend and rebound well out of it better than most bigs. Our bigs this year are not nearly that same mold. I really wish we'd stop going to it. It's not a secret weapon anymore, we don't have the personnel to run it.

[XMuskieFTW]

It still comes down to execution. If X made their season average from 3, they hit 11 instead of 6. Mack had a perfect set called early in the second half, but Rashid pushed off. It showed that Mack wanted to go inside early in the half, but that's not what happened on the floor. Players still have to make plays.

And still lose by 14.

[scoscox]

What did everyone think of Jay Wright's postgame remarks? He said something like he admires that X goes guns blazing when they're losing and tries to make the big plays and either run you out o fthe gym or get run out of the gym.

[scoscox]

It still comes down to execution. If X made their season average from 3, they hit 11 instead of 6. Mack had a perfect set called early in the second half, but Rashid pushed off. It showed that Mack wanted to go inside early in the half, but that's not what happened on the floor. Players still have to make plays.

There are ways to incentivize execution. Even bad payers can execute.

[mirabilelectu]

It still comes down to execution. If X made their season average from 3, they hit 11 instead of 6. Mack had a perfect set called early in the second half, but Rashid pushed off. It showed that Mack wanted to go inside early in the half, but that's not what happened on the floor. Players still have to make plays.

I guess I fall into the other camp; how do we expect these guys to continually take their defenders off the dribble and create? I know I'm beating a dead horse, and I would only have very general suggestions for change, but what does executing our offense mean? Passing until someone just gets open? It's hard to "execute" when the defense can preempt your offense.

[novachap]

What did everyone think of Jay Wright's postgame remarks? He said something like he admires that X goes guns blazing when they're losing and tries to make the big plays and either run you out o fthe gym or get run out of the gym.

Hi folks, obviously will be a different story at cintas.

Jay's comments were interesting. Ironically, X's woes from 3 last night were exactly the same stat nova had against Oklahoma in their first game last year. 6/32, right? Your team, as crazy as this sounds, still makes me nervous. Ed and trevon are studs, they got taken out of the flow last night. It is about adjustments- you already know that. Good luck in Indy.

[scoscox]

Hi folks, obviously will be a different story at cintas.

Jay's comments were interesting. Ironically, X's woes from 3 last night were exactly the same stat nova had against Oklahoma in their first game last year. 6/32, right? Your team, as crazy as this sounds, still makes me nervous. Ed and trevon are studs, they got taken out of the flow last night. It is about adjustments- you already know that. Good luck in Indy.

I agree. If I remember correctly, last year we had miserable three point shooting/field goal shooting at the pavilion as well and turned it around. I'm just wondering what other people thought about that. It was interesting because to me it sounded like a backhanded compliment. If the opposing coach openly makes observations about your playing style after running you out of the gym it's usually not a good thing.

[Xville]

I guess I fall into the other camp; how do we expect these guys to continually take their defenders off the dribble and create? I know I'm beating a dead horse, and I would only have very general suggestions for change, but what does executing our offense mean? Passing until someone just gets open? It's hard to "execute" when the defense can preempt your offense.

Quite frankly I don't know either because outside of Sumner (who likes to turn the ball over quite a bit), we don't have anyone really athletic enough to take guys off the dribble. JP can do a little, myles can do a little, but the majority of the team can't especially against the good teams. There isn't a Josh Hart, Jalen Brunson or Kris Jenkins on this team. Our personnel makes us pretty limited offensively. If X isn't shooting well from outside, with the inconsistency of the inside game, there isn't much X can do.

[AviatorX]

I agree. If I remember correctly, last year we had miserable three point shooting/field goal shooting at the pavilion as well and turned it around. I'm just wondering what other people thought about that. It was interesting because to me it sounded like a backhanded compliment. If the opposing coach openly makes observations about your playing style after running you out of the gym it's usually not a good thing.

I think his comments were interesting and Wright gives an incredible amount of respect to Xavier (at least publicly) considering what the head to head has looked like. No point playing to lose by 10.

[bleedXblue]

Quite frankly I don't know either because outside of Sumner (who likes to turn the ball over quite a bit), we don't have anyone really athletic enough to take guys off the dribble. JP can do a little, myles can do a little, but the majority of the team can't especially against the good teams. There isn't a Josh Hart, Jalen Brunson or Kris Jenkins on this team. Our personnel makes us pretty limited offensively. If X isn't shooting well from outside, with the inconsistency of the inside game, there isn't much X can do.

Exactly. One guy who can really put the ball on the floor and create.....

So, with that its really important to be able to install an offense that get's guys in the right spots in order to take advantage of your strengths.

Now, what our strengths are offensively is anyone's guess......b/c we don't shoot it well from inside or outside the arc........

Gotta find a way to get easier shots and doing this consistently.

[AviatorX]

Also, FWIW (not much), as someone who also frequents IU boards -- XavierHoops definitely gave Hoosier Internet land a run for the money as far as post-loss meltdown last night, and IU is in way worse shape than X. So if nothing else, we're moving into blue blood message board territory.

[mirabilelectu]

Exactly. One guy who can really put the ball on the floor and create.....

So, with that its really important to be able to install an offense that get's guys in the right spots in order to take advantage of your strengths.

Now, what our strengths are offensively is anyone's guess......b/c we don't shoot it well from inside or outside the arc........

Gotta find a way to get easier shots and doing this consistently.

YES! SO often our offensive philosophy seems to be "Ok, who can create their own shot, get out there and do it!" My contention is that our shooting percentages are so low because we don't see any high percentage looks (i.e. wide open). If we installed some plays (variety!) to switch it up, maybe we actually get something other than step back threes and rushed shots at the end of the shot clock.

[xufan2434]

I'm laughing because reading these responses, I'm actually starting to think about it and I can't remember any exact sets they ran. Last year, and really ever year for Mack, they used to run the same sets all the time. And I used to always think, the other team has to know what's coming cause I've seen it so many times myself. But those sets were always about making reads and making the correct decision off the action.

And I agree with you all, I don't see that as much this year. I know Mack installs more and more offense as the year goes along. But he needs to get some of em going now. Because Butler is not going to just crumble off 1 on 1's. And I'll give him some benefit of the doubt because when Nova switches everything, it's hard to run a regular offense. But this is year 4 against the same defense and still have the same results

[atljar]

We have 3 losses, 2 of which are to teams that have been ranked #1 in the country this year. Yes we played terrible, yes we should have been better but its not the end of the world or our season.

My biggest concern is the 3 point attempts. Holy #(&$#*&$. At some point you have to stop shooting the ball when its not going in and try something else

[mirabilelectu]

I'm laughing because reading these responses, I'm actually starting to think about it and I can't remember any exact sets they ran. Last year, and really ever year for Mack, they used to run the same sets all the time. And I used to always think, the other team has to know what's coming cause I've seen it so many times myself. But those sets were always about making reads and making the correct decision off the action.

And I agree with you all, I don't see that as much this year. I know Mack installs more and more offense as the year goes along. But he needs to get some of em going now. Because Butler is not going to just crumble off 1 on 1's. And I'll give him some benefit of the doubt because when Nova switches everything, it's hard to run a regular offense. But this is year 4 against the same defense and still have the same results

Couldn't agree more. I'm not saying that our sets are bad but they are flex sets which require reads and court vision that our guys do not exhibit in our losses, and quite frankly, some of our wins. Yes, IMO, he needs to install some different looks, if for nothing else than to keep opposing defenses on their toes.

[xubrew]

Over the last three and a half years we've had three teams win the national title, and two teams win at Villanova.

Most people probably don't stop to think about this, but from a probability standpoint there are some regular season games that teams have a smaller chance of winning than they do of making the Final Four or even winning it all. Winning at Nova isn't quite up there with winning at Kansas, but it's close. Now, I know we lost by 25 and the way we lost is discouraging, but the loss in and of itself is not. You really are shooting for the moon in a game like that. And, IMHO, that's not a bad thing. We're no worse off now than we were 24 hours ago. Let's realize that if you don't play harder or better you're going to keep getting your nose bloodied whenever you go on the road, and just worry about winning Saturday, staying in the rankings, and staying atop the Big East standings.

It's okay. It really is. I'm a pessimist as most of you know, and even I think things are okay.

[nuts4xu]

The season is a lifetime.

Giggity.

[xavierj]

We have 3 losses, 2 of which are to teams that have been ranked #1 in the country this year. Yes we played terrible, yes we should have been better but its not the end of the world or our season.

My biggest concern is the 3 point attempts. Holy #(&$#*&$. At some point you have to stop shooting the ball when its not going in and try something else

Yes the shooting was really bad. 11-26 from 2 and 6-32 from 3. Yikes!

[whopper]

If Dee Davis does not hit the foul shots at Creighton in last game, X is 17-13 and in NIT. Remember many of the 7-16 seeds go to small conferences especially if a hot team in the MAAC or Big South or Horizon beats an undefeated team and 2 teams are let in You don't go from 6 to 7, you go from 6 to maybe out. I am a big fan with 2 kids at X and met Matt S in Conn(thanks to Dan Patrick) but these things can go the other way especially when every team including St Johns can beat you. Providence beat Depaul who lost at buzzer to Villanova at Villanova so you can see the danger of a lack of urgency. I trust Mack and this is a very good team but I am just speaking from experience(and I saw Lew Alcindor beat Dayton and Don May(my favorite Ohio player). Go X.

[ammtd34]

And still lose by 14.

Assuming that those points are the only thing that would have been different, it would have been 10. Obviously 5 more threes makes for a different game.

[IM4X]

I'm just wondering what other people thought about that. It was interesting because to me it sounded like a backhanded compliment. If the opposing coach openly makes observations about your playing style after running you out of the gym it's usually not a good thing.

Funny you brought this up. I was thinking about what Jay Wright said too. Apparently you and I were on the same page. It was like he was trying hard to find some way to let Mack save face, when actually his real feelings were that he thought Mack foolishly made few adjustments including allowing his players to throwing up what looked like desperation 3s again and again when it clearly was not working.

[AviatorX]

If Dee Davis does not hit the foul shots at Creighton in last game, X is 17-13 and in NIT. Remember many of the 7-16 seeds go to small conferences especially if a hot team in the MAAC or Big South or Horizon beats an undefeated team and 2 teams are let in You don't go from 6 to 7, you go from 6 to maybe out. I am a big fan with 2 kids at X and met Matt S in Conn(thanks to Dan Patrick) but these things can go the other way especially when every team including St Johns can beat you. Providence beat Depaul who lost at buzzer to Villanova at Villanova so you can see the danger of a lack of urgency. I trust Mack and this is a very good team but I am just speaking from experience(and I saw Lew Alcindor beat Dayton and Don May(my favorite Ohio player). Go X.

Sorry, but this is just not accurate. Even if that were the case, I don't believe this is a particularly strong year from the mid and low tier conferences, although I'm sure Brew can expound on that more.

[Caf]

We have 3 losses, 2 of which are to teams that have been ranked #1 in the country this year. Yes we played terrible, yes we should have been better but its not the end of the world or our season.

My biggest concern is the 3 point attempts. Holy #(&$#*&$. At some point you have to stop shooting the ball when its not going in and try something else

Very true. I'm just reviewing the Shot Chart from last night. Ed was the only one willing or able to attack the basket. Tre took 1 shot within the arc. We need something to happen inside if our shooters want any chance at a decent shot. Give it to the big men down low or have the guards drive more often. I think the latter is our better option.

[xufan2434]

Over the last three and a half years we've had three teams win the national title, and two teams win at Villanova.

Most people probably don't stop to think about this, but from a probability standpoint there are some regular season games that teams have a smaller chance of winning than they do of making the Final Four or even winning it all. Winning at Nova isn't quite up there with winning at Kansas, but it's close. Now, I know we lost by 25 and the way we lost is discouraging, but the loss in and of itself is not. You really are shooting for the moon in a game like that. And, IMHO, that's not a bad thing. We're no worse off now than we were 24 hours ago. Let's realize that if you don't play harder or better you're going to keep getting your nose bloodied whenever you go on the road, and just worry about winning Saturday, staying in the rankings, and staying atop the Big East standings.

It's okay. It really is. I'm a pessimist as most of you know, and even I think things are okay.

I'm with ya there. We still got some dogs on this team trying to figure it out. It's January 11th. Remember when there was a thread on this board during Dee Davis' senior year asking if we would ever win a road game??? Haha, God that sucked and even then we were so fortunate to be where we were and made the S16. Need the boys to put it together by Saturday cause if this truly is the last season for Tre and Ed, I'll be damned if they lose to Butler on the way out

[xubrew]

Sorry, but this is just not accurate. Even if that were the case, I don't believe this is a particularly strong year from the mid and low tier conferences, although I'm sure Brew can expound on that more.

It's not. There are two three teams that have a realistic shot at landing inside the bubble (Middle Tennessee, UNC Wilmington, and Oakland), and anything short of running the table (which all are good enough to do) will probably mean they'll need the auto bid.

[GoMuskies]

I would include Wichita State, Gonzaga and St. Mary's in that. MVC and WCC are definitely mid or lower tier conferences.

[AviatorX]

I would include Wichita State, Gonzaga and St. Mary's in that. MVC and WCC are definitely mid or lower tier conferences.

Good point. Although I'd argue the chances of St. Mary's and Gonzaga both NOT winning the WCC tournament is pretty low. I have heard BYU is fun to watch though so you never know.

[xubrew]

I would include Wichita State, Gonzaga and St. Mary's in that. MVC and WCC are definitely mid or lower tier conferences.

Agreed. I'm so used to the MVC getting two teams that I sometimes forget them.

The Mountain West will probably only get one unless Nevada runs the table. So, that will offset the MVC getting two if Wichita doesn't win the auto.

New Mexico State will most likely finish 28-2, but I think they'll still need the auto bid. I don't think it will matter to this year's edition of the committee how many you win if your best win is at home against a team that will struggle to make the NIT.

[XU 87]

Very true. I'm just reviewing the Shot Chart from last night. Ed was the only one willing or able to attack the basket. Tre took 1 shot within the arc. We need something to happen inside if our shooters want any chance at a decent shot. Give it to the big men down low or have the guards drive more often. I think the latter is our better option.

X had a lot of decent looks from the three, and simply didn't make them. That said, 32 of 58 total shots were from the three. Offensively yesterday, the second someone got remotely a decent look from the three, they launched it. That's a recipe for disaster, and it was a disaster.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't have a need to justify losing by 25. To me, losing by 6 and losing by 25 are the same. If anyone is worried about the team's psyche, I give the players and coaching staff more credit than that. X was a 2 seed last year after losing at Villanova by 30 and went on a run that included beating Villanova at home (one of 3 teams to beat them in the calendar year).

They didn't hit shots last night.

Totally agree

[muethibp]

What did everyone think of Jay Wright's postgame remarks? He said something like he admires that X goes guns blazing when they're losing and tries to make the big plays and either run you out o fthe gym or get run out of the gym.

I took it that he's a good dude and a coach-speak devotee, which means he's going to come to the post-game presser and praise X even as his team throttled us; and to make it sound credible, he can't come out and say, "wow, they're just fantastic." because we all see the score. So he comes up with a way to basically say, "they're great. don't fall for the score." the school and program up there is just pretty much all class.

[paulxu]

I have zero idea why our shooting %, especially 3's, sucked last night.
And I shouldn't take any consolation from the following, but I do:

#15 X goes into #3's house and loses by 25.
#1 Baylor goes into #10's house, and loses by 21.

Crap happens. I hope we are better than we showed. We sure have the chances coming up to prove it.

[atljar]

I have zero idea why our shooting %, especially 3's, sucked last night.

#1 Baylor goes into #10's house, and loses by 21.



But Vegas called that one, i Dont know how they do it

[paulxu]

But Vegas called that one, i Dont know how they do it

They consult with the firm of Nigel & Go, Inc.

[atljar]

"I think they play the game to win, and not to stay close," Wright said when asked for his opinion about the Musketeers' struggles at the Pavilion. "You can sense some teams, when they get down, they'll hang... When (Xavier) gets down, they're going for broke. They're gonna shoot three's. They're going to come after you. They're going to speed it up. And if it works, good. But if it doesn't, it looks bad. I respect that... That's how they beat us out there (last season at Cintas Center)."


Here is what Jay Wright said, in full. I dont think it was meant as any sort of backhanded knock or dig, its just that we go for broke, and it either results in an impressive win, or a really ugly loss without much inbetween

[xufan2434]

Here is what Jay Wright said, in full. I dont think it was meant as any sort of backhanded knock or dig, its just that we go for broke, and it either results in an impressive win, or a really ugly loss without much inbetween

I completely agree with every thing he said. It's actually one of the main reasons X has been so enjoyable the last year and a half when they're on. Mack preaches not taking the foot off the pedal and I think that's what Jay's talking about. Granted last night they stupid shots and just simply played bad. But that mentality and aggressiveness he's talking about scares the lights outta anyone in March if they get hot.... Can also lead to 1st round exit if they go cold

[ammtd34]

But Vegas called that one, i Dont know how they do it

They called X v Nova, too.

[XUglow]

I don't have an issue with launching 32 threes. I love it, but make the extra pass, drive and dish, etc. Give your team the best chance to make it.

[XUMIOH12]

a lot of the 3s were pretty open (which is fine obviously), but some were quick and would have been nice to get the ball in the lane more, whether by driving or by passing it inside to a big.

[XUMIOH12]

not bothering to read through this thread. Just gonna forget about this game and look forward to the next one.

[XUFan09]

a lot of the 3s were pretty open (which is fine obviously), but some were quick and would have been nice to get the ball in the lane more, whether by driving or by passing it inside to a big.
I agree, but it is usually the case that not every three is a great look. Sometimes, they just don't fall and the results are bad, as teams start clogging the lane challenging an opponent to make the outside shot that seems improbable after awhile.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[JEHARDI]

The early lead was fools gold, 20 of 28 1st half shots were 3's. Hope we never see that again.

[xu82]

I've convinced myself it was just a bad dream.....

[IM4X]

I've convinced myself it was just a bad dream.....

How frequently do you anticipate having these kind of bad dreams of yours?

[AviatorX]

Ed won't be the starting PG next year if he is here. He might play 2 but Scruggs is that big, muscular tough guy type player X has missed since TU. Add Naji and X has two tough guys that Xavier basketball is about.

Ed will be too busy being drafted/developing as an NBA PG to start at X.

Thought it's worth mentioning that Scruggs (in a similar fashion to Ed) is still learning how to play PG. He is a 2 playing the 1 now. PG feel is not why he is a highly touted recruit. If your expectations are that he is going to come in and run the team masterfully, you might want to change them. I'd say it's more likely Goodin is the PG day one.

[xu82]

How frequently do you anticipate having these kind of bad dreams of yours?

I'm convinced that will be the last time it ever happens. On a related note, I am also frequently disappointed.

[IM4X]

I'm convinced that will be the last time it ever happens. On a related note, I am also frequently disappointed.

I'm frequently disappointed too... Personally, I believe we should have won 3 national titles by now and that we should win one this year. Did I mention that I tend to have what one might call abnormally high expectations for my sports teams.

Okay coach Mack, let's crack that whip and "Win one for the Skip-per."


EDIT: That last sentence sounded so much better in my head.

[vee4xu]

How frequently do you anticipate having these kind of bad dreams of yours?

Here's hoping 82 doesn't have the same dream again both this Saturday and next Monday.

[vee4xu]

I'm convinced that will be the last time it ever happens. On a related note, I am also frequently disappointed.


Maybe you just need to try drinking more, more often!

[xu82]

Maybe you just need to try drinking more, more often!

Is that even possible???

[IM4X]

Here's hoping 82 doesn't have the same dream again both this Saturday and next Monday.

Yeah, I think we may need somebody to sit with him Saturday with a bucket of ice just in case he starts to doze off before the Butler game.

Any volunteers?

[xu82]

Yeah, I think we may need somebody to sit with him Saturday with a bucket of ice just in case he starts to dose off before the Butler game.

Any volunteers?

I'll be in Nashville, you might enjoy it!

[IM4X]

I'll be in Nashville, you might enjoy it!

I've only driven by it on my way to other cities but I've seen more than a few episodes of the TV show... and as luck would have it, I did write a country song I'm looking to get produced.