Big East transfers making a difference

[Xuperman]

With no game until the BE opener, thought it would be cool to shine some light on all the transfers in the conference. Marcus Foster seems to be the front runner for BE newcomer of the year. I think he is the sole reason CU has surprised to this point. Rodney Pryor has come out of no where and is currently the leagues top scorer. That will not last long as the BE slate begins, guy seems a bit frail. Holt for the Friars has helped make them competitive, thought Providence was gonna be cupcakes!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I went to the Creighton ASU game and Foster can play. If he keeps his head on his shoulders he will make a huge difference for them. However, Creighton relies on threes just like always. The big guy they have was easily bodied out of the lane even by smaller guards.


With no game until the BE opener, thought it would be cool to shine some light on all the transfers in the conference. Marcus Foster seems to be the front runner for BE newcomer of the year. I think he is the sole reason CU has surprised to this point. Rodney Pryor has come out of no where and is currently the leagues top scorer. That will not last long as the BE slate begins, guy seems a bit frail. Holt for the Friars has helped make them competitive, thought Providence was gonna be cupcakes!

[XUFan09]

I went to the Creighton ASU game and Foster can play. If he keeps his head on his shoulders he will make a huge difference for them. However, Creighton relies on threes just like always. The big guy they have was easily bodied out of the lane even by smaller guards.
They have a bunch of really good shooters, but they are actually below average in terms of three-point attempts per game (ranked 203rd). Most of their key players shoot more from within the arc than from outside (Huff and Zierden being the exceptions). Now, they're still relying on making field goals rather than getting to the line, as they don't draw a lot of fouls nor do they shoot free throws well.

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[Xuperman]

Foster is the poster boy for this thread. Stat wise, he mirrors our own TB. Both lead their teams in scoring and they both play similar roles offensively launching about 14 shots pg, tops in the BE. Trevon does rebound much better. Will be very interesting to compare the stats of these 2 as league play begins. Could be a fight for a spot on the All BE 1st team....:homer:

[bleedXblue]

When was the last time Xavier got a big time transfer? Crawford? Stainbrook was not all that heralded......

[muskiefan82]

When was the last time Xavier got a big time transfer? Crawford? Stainbrook was not all that heralded......

Drew Lavender was a big time transfer.

[Xuperman]

Crawford and Drew are definitely tops but X has had a lot of good ones. Loved Braggs and Myles came up big in 01, however I think both were JUCO's.

[muskiefan82]

Thornton was good from Vandy. Stan Kimbrough from Central Florida worked out too.

[XUFan09]

This year, Rashid Gaston appears to be the #2 rebounder in the Big East (behind Angel Delgado). Again, not highly heralded, just known to be good at the mid-major level.

[Xpectations]

I always thought Jeff Massey--who was a big-time contributor in both his seasons at X--was an underappreciated transfer. As a senior at X, he averaged 18.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.9 spg, while shooting 35% from beyond the arc and 81% from the line.

[Xuperman]

You have made the Gaston/Delgado comparison on another thread. It is not now or every will be a fair comparison. Delgado is the premiere rebounder in the BE as well as in the picture nationally. It is not a stretch to say he will double Rashid in total boards by years end. Rashid will do well to maintain his current avg. thru the league schedule and will struggle to be top 10 in total boards. Not hating on Gaston in advance, just being realistic. Providence forward Holt is a transfer that would be a interesting comparison for RG.

[XUFan09]

You have made the Gaston/Delgado comparison on another thread. It is not now or every will be a fair comparison. Delgado is the premiere rebounder in the BE as well as in the picture nationally. It is not a stretch to say he will double Rashid in total boards by years end. Rashid will do well to maintain his current avg. thru the league schedule and will struggle to be top 10 in total boards. Not hating on Gaston in advance, just being realistic. Providence forward Holt is a transfer that would be a interesting comparison for RG.
You talk about total boards but that is in a big way a function of minutes played. It's a raw statistic. It's like talking about points per game for a high-volume-low-efficiency player. That's why rebounding rates are simply better measures of rebounding success. It's rebounds divided by opportunities. Gaston is number 1 in offensive rebounding rate, number 3 in defensive rebounding rate, and number 2 in overall rebounding rate.

By the way, Holt's offensive rebounding rate is HALF of Gaston's and his defensive rebounding rate is two-thirds of Gaston's. He simply plays about one-third more minutes. Raw rebounding numbers are weak statistics.

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[Xuperman]

Nope, your are wrong on all of ur points. Any inflated stat per minutes played is for role players or underclassmen logging limited PT. unfortunately X will not have a true force on the glass that will be a consistent game changer in the league schedule unless O'mara is coached up to clear out space and be a rebounder first and forget about a post scorer. Thread is about TRANSFERS. Holt should have similar MPG but it will be tight for total rebounds vs Rashid.. Again, not hating on Gaston in advance:ok:

[AviatorX]

Nope, your are wrong on all of ur points. Any inflated stat per minutes played is for role players or underclassmen.. unfortunately X will not have a true force on the glass that will be a consistent game changer in the league schedule unless O'mara is coached up to clear out space and be a rebounder first and forget about a post scorer.

Please stop with this.

[Xuperman]

OK, keeping on topic, has anyone seen the Marquette transfer Rowsey? Looks to be quite the 3 bomber!

[XUFan09]

Nope, your are wrong on all of ur points. Any inflated stat per minutes played is for role players or underclassmen logging limited PT. unfortunately X will not have a true force on the glass that will be a consistent game changer in the league schedule unless O'mara is coached up to clear out space and be a rebounder first and forget about a post scorer. Thread is about TRANSFERS. Holt should have similar MPG but it will be tight for total rebounds vs Rashid.. Again, not hating on Gaston in advance:ok:

- I explicitly said it was a rate based on rebounding opportunities, not a rate based on minutes played. Please read others' posts properly if you're going to respond.

- The issues with stats for role players or underclassmen logging limited PT are not an issue of "inflated stats." It's an issue of wide variance due to a smaller sample size. Sometimes inflated, sometimes deflated, and sometimes close to expectations (just a bit less often)

- Still, that's not relevant here because we're talking about rebounding, not offensive stats, for a center averaging similar minutes to James Farr. In that context, he is not a role player, for starting bigs are key to rebounding.

- You are way to confident about statistics for someone who clearly has limited knowledge. Otherwise, you would recognize the nuances here and how raw rebounding numbers easily become a biased statistic.

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[Xuperman]

I know your trying to make a point but not sure what it is. You exposed yourself as having "limited knowledge" when you suggested our own RG as the #2 rebounder in the BE. Even if that was true before it is not now nor will it be again by any measure. Not to mention your multiple Delgado comparisons show you may be just a tad out of touch but anyway I digress...

[Juice]

I know your trying to make a point but not sure what it is. You exposed yourself as having "limited knowledge" when you suggested our own RG as the #2 rebounder in the BE. Even if that was true before it is not now nor will it be again by any measure. Not to mention your multiple Delgado comparisons show you may be just a tad out of touch but anyway I digress...

Gaston's offensive rebounding percentage is actually better than Delgado's right now. So yeah...

[XUFan09]

I know your trying to make a point but not sure what it is. You exposed yourself as having "limited knowledge" when you suggested our own RG as the #2 rebounder in the BE. Even if that was true before it is not now nor will it be again by any measure. Not to mention your multiple Delgado comparisons show you may be just a tad out of touch but anyway I digress...
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/585dd56e0a9d7/Screenshot_2016-12-23-20-52-44.jpg?
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/585dd57ac3e74/Screenshot_2016-12-23-20-52-11.jpg?

Number one in offensive rebounding rate in the Big East, number three in defensive rebounding rate. Kenpom doesn't list total rebounding rate, but it's easy to determine from the rankings that Delgado and Gaston are the only two who are highly ranked in both. One can eyeball the rankings for an approximate average to see that Delgado would get the edge. Thus, Gaston is number two in total rebounding rate in the Big East. Basketball Reference will have precise numbers on total rebounding rate a bit later in the season.

There's the measure for you, the same one I already referenced, and you can view the screenshots yourself. Also, this statistic is an unbiased statistic, as it is not influenced by minutes played, tempo, a player's opponents' field goal percentage (for defensive rebounding opportunities) or a player's own team's field goal percentage (for offensive rebounding opportunities).

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[Xuperman]

Jeez, this is silly. Rashid is a nice transfer and a respectable guy on the glass but rebounding percentage, rebounding rate? No one cares about his rebounding % unless he can get many more minutes. This just in- Delgado just got 16 more tonite and the W

[XUFan09]

Gaston's offensive rebounding percentage is actually better than Delgado's right now. So yeah...
Yeah, and he actually has a higher offensive rebounding rate than Farr did last season (16.9% of opponents' misses to Farr's 15.5%).
We need a good number of conference games to really make something close to an apples-to-apples comparison between the two, though.

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[Xuperman]

OK, let's leave it at that. I just am really bumming on the fact that team 95 doesn't have more to go to battle with as the conference slate begins. It's going to be a bumpy ride!

[XUFan09]

Jeez, this is silly. Rashid is a nice transfer and a respectable guy on the glass but rebounding percentage, rebounding rate? No one cares about his rebounding % unless he can get many more minutes. This just in- Delgado just got 16 more tonite and the W

Coaches care about these measures, because they better reflect rebounding ability than raw numbers. Also, the allocation of minutes between teams is far more complicated than rebounding, including things like scoring, defensive ability, depth, and coaching preferences on minutes played for players at certain positions. So, I don't know why you mention it. Also, he's also still earning starter minutes; it's not like he's coming off the bench for a few minutes per game.

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[Juice]

OK, let's leave it at that. I just am really bumming on the fact that team 95 doesn't have more to go to battle with as the conference slate begins. It's going to be a bumpy ride!

Yeah but Gaston isn't the cause of that as much as you want to push that narrative.

[Xuperman]

Well your right about that, sadly there is no one to keep him from getting more minutes.

[XUFan09]

One thing the team has done really well, actually, is rebounding. They are top 50 in the nation on both the offensive and defensive glass in terms of rate, the only team in the conference for which that is true.

Also, the defense has its flaws, but it's generally very good. The offense is so bipolar, though.

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[American X]

Indianapolis Star - Transfers have made the difference for Creighton, Butler (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/01/10/transfers-have-made-difference-creighton-butler/96365988/)

INDIANAPOLIS – Is bowl season finally over?

Maybe not. Wednesday’s Big East visit by No. 13 Butler to No. 8 Creighton could be the Transfer Bowl.

The Bulldogs and Bluejays would not be in college basketball’s top 15 without players who began their careers at other universities. Butler features three fifth-year senior guards who are transfers. Creighton’s all-transfer backcourt of Maurice Watson Jr. (Boston University) and Marcus Foster (Kansas State) could be the nation’s most potent.

[Xuperman]

Check out MU transfers Rowsey and Reinhardt in yesterdays beat down of DePaul. 16-20 combined for 43 pts.....9-12 from 3 land. Tack on 8 assists and that's basically 60 pts of production from the 2 transfers. Marquette looking very good lately.

[bleedXblue]

Check out MU transfers Rowsey and Reinhardt in yesterdays beat down of DePaul. 16-20 combined for 43 pts.....9-12 from 3 land. Tack on 8 assists and that's basically 60 pts of production from the 2 transfers. Marquette looking very good lately.

I was talking to a buddy yesterday and Mack and staffs track record lately of getting high caliber transfers has been pretty poor. Abel was decent. Bernard is ok. Gaston is ok. Nothing really to get excited about. Creighton has two tomorrow that are very likely going to be All Big East selections.

[Muskie]

I think Bernard has played pretty well this year. We didn't bring him in as scorer. He's played good D most of the season.


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[GoMuskies]

I was talking to a buddy yesterday and Mack and staffs track record lately of getting high caliber transfers has been pretty poor. Abel was decent. Bernard is ok. Gaston is ok. Nothing really to get excited about. Creighton has two tomorrow that are very likely going to be All Big East selections.

Stainbrook was pretty good.

[Juice]

I was talking to a buddy yesterday and Mack and staffs track record lately of getting high caliber transfers has been pretty poor. Abel was decent. Bernard is ok. Gaston is ok. Nothing really to get excited about. Creighton has two tomorrow that are very likely going to be All Big East selections.

Because we get high caliber recruits. No one is going to transfer here to not play and sit behind existing players.

[bleedXblue]

Because we get high caliber recruits. No one is going to transfer here to not play and sit behind existing players.

That's funny, both Gaston and Bernard are starting.......

[Juice]

That's funny, both Gaston and Bernard are starting.......

Yes but they didn't come here to be stars and become the focal point of the team. You can sell that at other schools who have big holes in their roster. And if Myles didn't eff up in the off season, Malcolm would arguably be the 6th man.

[bleedXblue]

Yes but they didn't come here to be stars and become the focal point of the team. You can sell that at other schools who have big holes in their roster. And if Myles didn't eff up in the off season, Malcolm would arguably be the 6th man.

I'm not buying your reasoning at all. Good D1 players looking for a better situation or fit think they can play anywhere. We're Xavier, not Duke or UK. We've not had THAT much talent in place the last 3-4 years to nab some better talented transfers. Hell, we have Semaj (a fringe NBA talent) in the league and that's it. It's really been since Crawford that we got a really high level transfer. Stain was from Central Michigan. Yes, a nice transfer but not that coveted. Drew Lavendar before Crawford. My only point is its been quite some time that we had a guy transfer in that helped immediately in a big way.

[AviatorX]

I'm not buying your reasoning at all. Good D1 players looking for a better situation or fit think they can play anywhere. We're Xavier, not Duke or UK. We've not had THAT much talent in place the last 3-4 years to nab some better talented transfers. Hell, we have Semaj (a fringe NBA talent) in the league and that's it. It's really been since Crawford that we got a really high level transfer. Stain was from Central Michigan. Yes, a nice transfer but not that coveted. Drew Lavendar before Crawford. My only point is its been quite some time that we had a guy transfer in that helped immediately in a big way.

Having Lavender, Crawford, and Stain all within the last decade puts X right up there with anyone as far as stud transfers, I'd argue.

I kinda see this as a good thing. Obviously if a game changer falls into your lap like Crawford you take that every time, but IMO it's better to build through recruiting. Creighton needed to patch up their recruiting (which has since really taken off, see Justin Patton and the guys they have coming in next year) to get to a BE level, so they were an attractive landing spot, and it worked out really really well with a couple of guys.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Having Lavender, Crawford, and Stain all within the last decade puts X right up there with anyone as far as stud transfers, I'd argue.

I kinda see this as a good thing. Obviously if a game changer falls into your lap like Crawford you take that every time, but IMO it's better to build through recruiting. Creighton needed to patch up their recruiting (which has since really taken off, see Justin Patton and the guys they have coming in next year) to get to a BE level, so they were an attractive landing spot, and it worked out really really well with a couple of guys.

Agree with all of this.