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View Full Version : Game Thread: Xavier v. Wake Forest (Skip Prosser Classic) December 17, 2016



Muskie
12-12-2016, 11:05 AM
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCs2BgV9TJM54JChkoqOc8LpbyH_Jq8 dm53hwl4PNAyoWCu4R7hA
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2752.png&h=150&w=150vs.http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/154.png&h=150&w=150

December 17, 2016

Game Time: 8:00 p.m.
Cintas Center
Skip Prosser Classic
Radio: 700 WLW (http://www.iheart.com/live/700wlw-1713/?autoplay=true&pname=1209&campid=header&cid=index.html)

TV: FS1

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)
Live Stats (http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)

http://rushthecourt.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/ripskip2.jpg

Skip's Career at X (http://www.goxavier.com/news/2007/7/26/Xavier_University_Mourns_the_Loss_of_Beloved_Baske tball_Coach_Skip_Prosser.aspx)

E (http://enquirer.com/xavier/2001/04/25/xu_prossers_leaving.html)nquirer Coverage of Prosser resi (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjE0-H4g-_QAhXmxFQKHd_WCUoQjhwIBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fenquirer.com%2Fxavier%2F2001%2F04 %2F25%2Fxu_prossers_leaving.html&bvm=bv.141320020,d.cGw&psig=AFQjCNFn3K7RQRu_vJ0whsZN_vrYAoewpg&ust=1481645011396505)E (http://enquirer.com/xavier/2001/04/25/xu_prossers_leaving.html)gning at X (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjE0-H4g-_QAhXmxFQKHd_WCUoQjhwIBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fenquirer.com%2Fxavier%2F2001%2F04 %2F25%2Fxu_prossers_leaving.html&bvm=bv.141320020,d.cGw&psig=AFQjCNFn3K7RQRu_vJ0whsZN_vrYAoewpg&ust=1481645011396505)

Muskie
12-12-2016, 11:12 AM
Skip Prosser was one of the classiest and nicest people, I have ever met. He was also the Coach of Xavier during my entire undergraduate career. Most of what I knew of Xavier Basketball occurred while Skip was either the Coach or on the Coaching Staff. The game has missed him these past nine years.

RyanblockXU
12-14-2016, 10:13 PM
This will be a great matchup to see how Gaston handles John Collins.

Collins is a 6'10 sophmore for Wake and is ranked 4th in the country in Offensive rebounding percentage as well as 10th in defensive.
Gaston is a great rebounder as well with similar numbers (2nd in offensive but 75th in defensive).


Also Wake forest has a sneaky good offense. They are #25 in offensive efficiency which is just 1 place behind X who is 24th.


I expect Xavier to win but if we play bad, they can and will beat us. Especially since they shoot the 3 so well. We will need a good home court performance and for Gaston and Co. to keep Collins from grabbing 8 OR left he did against Northwestern on their home court.

This team has played 10, 6 of which has been away from home and they have 3 true road wins 2 of which were against top 150 teams.


We may end up wining by 20, but im just warning that we if see a dog fight, It wouldn't be unexpected from me

D-West & PO-Z
12-16-2016, 01:30 PM
Has anyone seen a point spread?

bobbiemcgee
12-16-2016, 06:11 PM
http://www.oddsshark.com/ncaab/odds/line-history/744085

What's the odds on Brad Redford vs Bill Cunningham in the 3 pt. contest?

gladdenguy
12-16-2016, 08:46 PM
Has anyone seen a point spread?

Xavier -10

Olsingledigit
12-16-2016, 08:46 PM
Opening Vegas line is X -9 to -10

Emp
12-16-2016, 11:12 PM
155 O/U seems steep for coming off exam week layoff. But maybe fresh legs is the reasoning?

gladdenguy
12-16-2016, 11:29 PM
155 O/U seems steep for coming off exam week layoff. But maybe fresh legs is the reasoning?

Or that Wake can't play defense. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

Lloyd Braun
12-17-2016, 12:10 AM
155 O/U seems steep for coming off exam week layoff. But maybe fresh legs is the reasoning?

It's my fault. I bet a rather substantial amount on the Wake/COC game to go OVER 136 in November and Vegas has pumped their lines up since. Their O/U with Charlotte was somewhere in the mid 160's.. and they pushed!

Xuperman
12-17-2016, 02:39 AM
Wake has a distinct size advantage in the front court. Rashid should be effective amongst the trees but I am really hoping to see Sean log some big minutes and have the breakout game we all have been waiting for. Also Kaiser should be ready to make an impact after the week off. Don't want to see that Crawford kid repeat last years performance! If X struggles to get the W or happen to lose it, I feel the full potential of this team will not be realized until Myles returns.

American X
12-17-2016, 07:40 AM
Gus Johnson ON. THE. CALL.

But they could not peal Raftery out of the saloon? Tarik Turner riding shotgun.

X-band '01
12-17-2016, 09:07 AM
Raftery is in Vegas for the OSU/UCLA and Kentucky/UNC doubleheader on CBS today.

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 07:03 PM
Gus Johnson ON. THE. CALL.

But they could not peal Raftery out of the saloon? Tarik Turner riding shotgun.

I am Trevon Bluiett and I. GET. BUCKETS!

Xpectations
12-17-2016, 07:17 PM
I'm out of town this weekend. Anyone know a streaming site to watch the game?

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 07:22 PM
I'm out of town this weekend. Anyone know a streaming site to watch the game?

I think Fox Sports Go app should have it.

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 08:08 PM
Good start.

Trevon is soooooooooooo good

GreatWhiteNorth
12-17-2016, 08:11 PM
Hot shooting to start the game. Keep it up!

XUFan09
12-17-2016, 08:19 PM
I'm convinced that something like a quarter of "travels" aren't travels at all. Refs just can't keep up with how quickly high-D1 perimeter players can move.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

letskeepitreal
12-17-2016, 08:21 PM
Our 2nd unit is just not good enough to keep leads. We need more from Gates, O'mara, Goodwin and Jones collectively, even just a little.

mistabeecee41
12-17-2016, 08:31 PM
Sean shouldn't see the court the rest of the game. He has been downright awful

drudy23
12-17-2016, 08:32 PM
Our 2nd unit is just not good enough to keep leads. We need more from Gates, O'mara, Goodwin and Jones collectively, even just a little.

Very limited offensively.

QueensbridgeMF
12-17-2016, 08:32 PM
O'm sucks tonight

kellernr
12-17-2016, 08:34 PM
Omara should never be allowed off of the bench. He goes to the rim extremely weak and gets blocked 90% of the time. Gaston and Jones should be the only ones getting minutes at the 5.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

GreatWhiteNorth
12-17-2016, 08:38 PM
X has to work on reducing the turnovers.

paulxu
12-17-2016, 08:43 PM
Sometimes we are a turnover machine.

paulxu
12-17-2016, 08:45 PM
The quality of our cheerleaders has improved remarkably since my time at X.

letskeepitreal
12-17-2016, 08:47 PM
This game making me nervous. Too many turnovers and we should be up big.

BandAid
12-17-2016, 08:47 PM
This team is playing like shit right now.

kellernr
12-17-2016, 08:47 PM
Sumner should have finished that drive. No one in front of him that could stop him without fouling and he decides to kick it out for an NBA 3.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

skyking
12-17-2016, 08:49 PM
Shooting well. Rebounding well. Turnovers are killing us.

Xville
12-17-2016, 08:49 PM
This team is playing like shit right now.

I think its becoming abundqntly clear that its more of a this is who this team is, more than we are playing awful.

xuwin
12-17-2016, 08:51 PM
No bench.

mohr5150
12-17-2016, 08:55 PM
3 turnovers and 1 assist for our supposed NBA point guard.

QueensbridgeMF
12-17-2016, 08:55 PM
Would be a shame to ruin a great day for the league.

X Factor
12-17-2016, 08:59 PM
Goodin is a turnover machine when he comes in; just throws the ball over the place, usually to the other team or out of bounds.

Gates hasn't made the leap everyone thought he would. I'm sure his knee has a lot to do with that though. He didn't practice much during the preseason.

scoscox
12-17-2016, 09:00 PM
I'm convinced that something like a quarter of "travels" aren't travels at all. Refs just can't keep up with how quickly high-D1 perimeter players can move.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Any moves from the triple threat have for some reason become an automatic call for no apparent reason.

paulxu
12-17-2016, 09:10 PM
We seem to do so much better when we push the tempo.

Also, we are way to sloppy with the ball. What the hell is wrong with us sometimes?

They've got 4 TO's. We've got 11.

kellernr
12-17-2016, 09:22 PM
Blueitt needs to quit disappearing in games. Hasn't scored since 8:30 left in the first. If he actually drove the ball he would score more. Instead he just floats are the 3pt line most of the game and drives the lane only 2 or 3 times.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 09:23 PM
Right now, when Gates, Goodin and Jones are on the floor together we have three offensive holes. This is the same thing we saw at Colorado when a 9 point lead turned into a 6 point deficit.

I don't know where Kaiser got the rep of best shooter on this team, but that term does not fit. Sorry

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:29 PM
Can't shake these clowns. Nervous.

skyking
12-17-2016, 09:30 PM
Sure wish we had a real point guard.

paulxu
12-17-2016, 09:30 PM
We just keep playing so much like we don't care about the ball.

BandAid
12-17-2016, 09:32 PM
Take care of the ball. Jimmeney christmas

GreatWhiteNorth
12-17-2016, 09:33 PM
I am nervous like hell about this game. We aren't playing like a top 25 team right now.

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:33 PM
The next reverse layup Gaston makes will be the first one.

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:34 PM
I am nervous like hell about this game. We aren't playing like a top 25 team right now.

Starting to think we aren't a Top 25 team.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 09:36 PM
Starting to think we aren't a Top 25 team.

We're NOT.....right now

kellernr
12-17-2016, 09:37 PM
Starting to think we aren't a Top 25 team.
The only guy that shows emotion and looks like he wants to win is JP. His shot hasn't been falling like it was to start the year but he's the heart and motor for this team. I was hoping Ed and Tre would step up as vocal leaders this year.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:37 PM
Dammit Sumner!!! Terrible pass!

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:39 PM
Nice airball Macura!

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:40 PM
We have no consistent outside threats besides Trevon...

paulxu
12-17-2016, 09:41 PM
Nice box out

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:41 PM
Another airball from X...this time from Edmond.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 09:43 PM
Once again...Forgetting to feed the post. Macura jacks up a ridiculous shot.

letskeepitreal
12-17-2016, 09:43 PM
Awful play guys. Let's get tough and take this game. Our bench has only contributed 4 points. Not exactly a recipe for success .

skyking
12-17-2016, 09:43 PM
The good news: Sumner should be back next year.

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:43 PM
Hope Mack has a good play handy out of this TO.

mohr5150
12-17-2016, 09:44 PM
Super smart offense with a five point lead. Jack up three straight threes, leading to long rebounds and easy buckets on the other end. This is one unintelligent group of players.

BandAid
12-17-2016, 09:44 PM
The only guy that shows emotion and looks like he wants to win is JP. His shot hasn't been falling like it was to start the year but he's the heart and motor for this team. I was hoping Ed and Tre would step up as vocal leaders this year.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Gaston's been manning up.

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 09:44 PM
Any Myles update??? :)

And yes, he will be playing PLENTY of PG on return.

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:44 PM
Could be another game under 30% from three for X! Unbelievable bad shooting team.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 09:45 PM
The book is becoming very clear on this team. Jam the lane where Ed can't drive and overplay Trevon. Not enough other scorers.

kellernr
12-17-2016, 09:45 PM
The good news: Sumner should be back next year.
If Sumner stays Q will probably leave with Scruggs coming in.

Both Sumner and Blueitt are not ready for the NBA. Even they play all 4 years they might be garbage time players in the nba.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

skyking
12-17-2016, 09:48 PM
God bless JP!

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 09:48 PM
If Sumner stays Q will probably leave with Scruggs coming in.

Both Sumner and Blueitt are not ready for the NBA. Even they play all 4 years they might be garbage time players in the nba.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

No way Sumner stays 4. He's only on 2 now.

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:48 PM
Can't believe that guy threw the ball right to JP. Thanks!

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 09:48 PM
Can't believe that guy threw the ball right to JP. Thanks!

Seriously!

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:50 PM
Trevon walked on that in bounds pass. Got a break.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 09:50 PM
If Sumner stays Q will probably leave with Scruggs coming in.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Scruggs is more of a 2 guard.

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:52 PM
Trevon walked on that in bounds pass. Got a break.

Watched the replay again, and he took about six steps. Can't believe the refs missed it. Thanks again.

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
Making a FT would help.

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
Definitely wouldnt hurt.

BandAid
12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
Smh

letskeepitreal
12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
Free throws are killings us!

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
Glad Trevon and Ed can make free throws with the game on the line... :rolleyes:

mohr5150
12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
Absolutely unreal. The NBA isn't hard up for two guards who can't make free throws when it matters.

skyking
12-17-2016, 09:55 PM
Wish we had Myles to shoot free throws at crunch time.

kellernr
12-17-2016, 09:55 PM
Our guards are pathetic at the line.

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kellernr
12-17-2016, 09:56 PM
Wish we had Myles to shoot free throws at crunch time.
Get the ball to JP. I'd rather have him at the line

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D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 09:57 PM
Why the constant NBA comments on Ed? He and Tre did what any smart player would do and went and got evaluated and got feedback? Give me a break people.

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 09:57 PM
Get the ball to JP. I'd rather have him at the line

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Not over Myles.

JP is 3rd in line to me at the line. Def before Ed tho.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 09:59 PM
Forget ranking with this team right now. Too many holes.
We'd better get guys to step up soon.

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 09:59 PM
Winner

X Factor
12-17-2016, 09:59 PM
Not over Myles.

JP is 3rd in line to me at the line. Def before Ed tho.

I would take JP over Trevon at the line.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 10:02 PM
Ugly win. I give a crap less about any ranking. Means nothing. This team had better get better....and quick.

letskeepitreal
12-17-2016, 10:02 PM
Man that game was awful. No energy. Either Wake is better than we thought or X just not as good as we think. Thoughts?

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 10:03 PM
I would take JP over Trevon at the line.

Yeah probably true.

Myles
JP
Tre

GreatWhiteNorth
12-17-2016, 10:06 PM
In spite of this win, I believe our ranking next week would/should drop, maybe to 20+. The only bright spot is the continued improvement of Gaston.

Strange Brew
12-17-2016, 10:07 PM
Roadkill.

mohr5150
12-17-2016, 10:07 PM
Yes

KabeX
12-17-2016, 10:07 PM
Ugly win. I give a crap less about any ranking. Means nothing. This team had better get better....and quick.

Pretty much my sentiments. Lots of work to do.

xu82
12-17-2016, 10:08 PM
Yeah probably true.

Myles
JP
Tre

I'll take all of them over our PG. Not hating, just saying.

Masterofreality
12-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Man that game was awful. No energy. Either Wake is better than we thought or X just not as good as we think. Thoughts?

Only mitigating factor was exams this week. I don't even know how many profs give final exams vs papers any more but it is definitely distracting from basketball

KabeX
12-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Ugly win but a win nonetheless. And Gus called it. Gotta like Gus.

D-West & PO-Z
12-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Not pretty. But, a win is a win regardless of how it is done. I'm not worried about ranking, doesnt matter where we are ranked, means nothing in grand scheme of things for this season. Lots of new parts and missing our leader and top 3 player. We will get better.

GoMuskies
12-17-2016, 10:12 PM
Roadkill.

Homekill

whopper
12-17-2016, 10:18 PM
Many of the turnovers were totally unforced. Extremely long entry passes that seemed unnecessary. Bluwett, Macura have too high a dribble to be an effective facilitator. Strange rebounding problem with at least 2 lost to multiple X players fighting for the ball. I hope they can clean it up..Myles will help a lot but Bernard and O'Mara (who seems too interested in being instant offense and needs to do some "little things" that will give him confidence) need confidence and hard to get once the Big East starts

letskeepitreal
12-17-2016, 10:19 PM
Candy playing Chattanooga now and Makonde London just posterized somebody. Sure wish he didn't leave as I think he could have helped us this year.

xu82
12-17-2016, 10:24 PM
Many of the turnovers were totally unforced. Extremely long entry passes that seemed unnecessary. Bluwett, Macura have too high a dribble to be an effective facilitator. Strange rebounding problem with at least 2 lost to multiple X players fighting for the ball. I hope they can clean it up..Myles will help a lot but Bernard and O'Mara (who seems too interested in being instant offense and needs to do some "little things" that will give him confidence) need confidence and hard to get once the Big East starts

Trevon is easy, if you dont want to try a little harder. Sorry, but...

scoscox
12-17-2016, 10:37 PM
Candy playing Chattanooga now and Makonde London just posterized somebody. Sure wish he didn't leave as I think he could have helped us this year.

Word. Myles would be huge as well.

Strange Brew
12-17-2016, 10:41 PM
Homekill

Well, this is awkward...

mirabilelectu
12-17-2016, 11:04 PM
Of the myriad issues this team has on offense, I keep coming back to the same issue: lack of play-calling variety. Is anyone else noticing this? We run a completely uninspired offense, predicated upon individual efforts to create space, and we run it EVERY POSSESSION. Mack called a time-out with 1:00 or so left, and we came out of the TO in the same offensive set which led to a missed FG. The general sentiment on this forum seems to be that our players are pressing, or we lack Myles, or people haven't progressed (very true in Ed's case); is anyone else, like me, wondering why we don't try to shake it up a little bit? It's hard to get open looks when the opposing D can anticipate every cut, pass, or drive.

xu82
12-17-2016, 11:10 PM
Is this the same........

OK, what do you actually propose?

mirabilelectu
12-17-2016, 11:31 PM
Is this the same........

OK, what do you actually propose?

Didn't really understand the "is this the same...." but if your implying that I'm echoing you, then my apologies! Personally, I'd like to see us run some plays with shooters coming off a screen, or even multiple screens, to effect an open look. I will admit that our bigs are open on rolls to the basket, but I have yet to see any of them receive a pass that I can remember. Bigger picture: I know Mack knows more about this team and it's individual parts than I ever will, and maybe this is the only offense they are capable of running, but it seems so odd to watch them struggle for 11 games without any ostensible attempts to remedy it. I liked Mack's decision to play Ed off the ball tonight, unfortunately Q had to take over at PG and he is a turnover machine.

Xville
12-18-2016, 01:07 AM
This team has zero depth right now and basically has 4 guys doing anything, and even those 4 are wildly inconsistent at this point. O'mara is a huge disappointment so far this year, gates is as well but at least he has an excuse. I hope this team gets a lot better quickly, because if not, they are going to struggle in conference play.

TUclutch
12-18-2016, 01:09 AM
Scruggs is more of a 2 guard.

xavier recruited him as a pg and thats where he'll play.

Harryfe
12-18-2016, 02:07 AM
Wake has a distinct size advantage in the front court. Rashid should be effective amongst the trees but I am really hoping to see Sean log some big minutes and have the breakout game we all have been waiting for. Also Kaiser should be ready to make an impact after the week off. Don't want to see that Crawford kid repeat last years performance! If X struggles to get the W or happen to lose it, I feel the full potential of this team will not be realized until Myles returns.
You should sure be disappointed tonight. Sean getting worse every game. Didn't even play 2nd half and Gates has shown nothing. I believe he has been playing a month now and just had MINOR knee surgery.

Xuperman
12-18-2016, 04:40 AM
Yes, disappointed but not at all surprised. Game played out exactly as I thought. Would have lost anywhere but Cintas. Wake looks pretty good to me, had the 2 best players on the floor tonite.

XUGRAD80
12-18-2016, 06:26 AM
People, y'all need to lighten up. I could have sworn that X WON that game, but after reading this thread I'm not so sure anymore.

By the way....did ya see this score?


#10 Creighton.....66
Oral Roberts........65


Let's try to keep things in perspective folks.

XfansinKy
12-18-2016, 07:57 AM
I'm not very concerned about Gates because he's too good to play bad for long if he's healthy. He looks like he's still getting himself in game shape to be honest. I've noticed he's on the blocks a lot more than I've ever seen him. That's not his game. My guess is it's because coach Mack is looking for anybody to be able to score down low besides Gaston. I believe when Gates is 100%, and coming in to play small forward, he will create mismatches again and be effective. I don't know what to think about big Shawn. He doesn't seem to have the muscle mass to carve out space like he did last year. I hope he's practicing well. If so, he can get it turned around

X-band '01
12-18-2016, 08:24 AM
Only mitigating factor was exams this week. I don't even know how many profs give final exams vs papers any more but it is definitely distracting from basketball

At least Xavier didn't pull a Georgetown and schedule a game during exams. Remember when they thought they could squeeze in a game against Monmouth last year at this time?

X-Fan
12-18-2016, 10:45 AM
I'm not very concerned about Gates because he's too good to play bad for long if he's healthy. He looks like he's still getting himself in game shape to be honest. I've noticed he's on the blocks a lot more than I've ever seen him. That's not his game. My guess is it's because coach Mack is looking for anybody to be able to score down low besides Gaston. I believe when Gates is 100%, and coming in to play small forward, he will create mismatches again and be effective. I don't know what to think about big Shawn. He doesn't seem to have the muscle mass to carve out space like he did last year. I hope he's practicing well. If so, he can get it turned around

Totally agree about Gates. Also, he was playing pretty good D. IMO, that's a good sign since it was one of his strengths from last year. No idea what's going in with Sean. I'm guessing he's practicing well, because Mack makes a point of trying to get him going and feed him early every game.

As Mack stated last night, the lack of quality play from the subs is killing this team. The starters will get a lead, and then the subs come in and let the opponent back in the game. That will improve.

Ed needs to slow down and the turnovers will mostly go away. In general, it seems the guys are pressing. This is even more glaring with how fluid last years team played. Gotta get it figured out before BE play because it's going to be brutal. It would be huge for this team if Myles could come back and somewhat stablize the PG position. Most of the roster just needs to be put in a good position to make a play.

bleedXblue
12-18-2016, 11:14 AM
I'm not very concerned about Gates because he's too good to play bad for long if he's healthy. He looks like he's still getting himself in game shape to be honest. I've noticed he's on the blocks a lot more than I've ever seen him. That's not his game. My guess is it's because coach Mack is looking for anybody to be able to score down low besides Gaston. I believe when Gates is 100%, and coming in to play small forward, he will create mismatches again and be effective. I don't know what to think about big Shawn. He doesn't seem to have the muscle mass to carve out space like he did last year. I hope he's practicing well. If so, he can get it turned around

I'm waiting for Gates to do something on the offensive end other than chuck up 3's. Starting to get concerned that he has little else to offer.

Xuperman
12-18-2016, 11:42 AM
No doubt, we already have enough guys chucking up 3's! But I don't think scoring in the paint is in his repertoire nor is rebounding. W/O anything from Sean we are in big trouble up front. I am sure Rashid was never expected to be our go to guy and top rebounder. When is the last time a Xavier team had such a soft front court? Year after the brawl I guess....maybe?

D-West & PO-Z
12-18-2016, 11:42 AM
Yes, disappointed but not at all surprised. Game played out exactly as I thought. Would have lost anywhere but Cintas. Wake looks pretty good to me, had the 2 best players on the floor tonite.

Really? Not sure who you could possible be referring to after Crawford for Wake. I sure hope you dont mean Collins who shot 31%.

Ridiculous.

D-West & PO-Z
12-18-2016, 11:43 AM
People, y'all need to lighten up. I could have sworn that X WON that game, but after reading this thread I'm not so sure anymore.

By the way....did ya see this score?


#10 Creighton.....66
Oral Roberts........65


Let's try to keep things in perspective folks.

People love to complain. If we would have won by 20 this thread would be 4 pages instead of 11.

GoMuskies
12-18-2016, 11:45 AM
And some people love to complain about people complaining. It's a vicious cycle, I tell ya.

D-West & PO-Z
12-18-2016, 11:48 AM
And some people love to complain about people complaining about people complaining. Vicious indeed.

drudy23
12-18-2016, 11:48 AM
We're going to end up 10-2 through non-conference. That's probably 1 game worse than most expected, so we're fine (I'm not including UC).

That being said, Creighton, Nova, Butler x2 are going to be wars. The other conference road games are going to be dog fights. We need to get better to keep a top 6 seed.

D-West & PO-Z
12-18-2016, 11:50 AM
We're going to end up 10-2 through non-conference. That's probably 1 game worse than most expected, so we're fine (I'm not including UC).

That being said, Creighton, Nova, Butler x2 are going to be wars. The other conference road games are going to be dog fights. We need to get better to keep a top 6 seed.

Yeah and we really need to hold serve at home. Too difficult to win on the road in this conference to give home games away.

Xuperman
12-18-2016, 11:51 AM
Yup, Collins. Double Double in 26 minutes. Played big. If he continues to developed at the rate from frosh to soph, looks like the association might be in his future.

bleedXblue
12-18-2016, 11:53 AM
Yeah and we really need to hold serve at home. Too difficult to win on the road in this conference to give home games away.

11-7, I would take that right now.

D-West & PO-Z
12-18-2016, 11:55 AM
Crawford and Trevon were the best players on the court.

Gaston didnt have one of his better rebounding games but he was way more efficient than Collins.

XUFan09
12-18-2016, 12:03 PM
Yup, Collins. Double Double in 26 minutes. Played big. If he continues to developed at the rate from frosh to soph, looks like the association might be in his future.
It took Collins 18 field goal attempts to get 12 points, and his offensive rating was 74 when 104 is the D1 average for a team. He had a good rebounding game, but that's simply a bad performance on the offensive end.

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Harryfe
12-18-2016, 12:08 PM
I'm not very concerned about Gates because he's too good to play bad for long if he's healthy. He looks like he's still getting himself in game shape to be honest. I've noticed he's on the blocks a lot more than I've ever seen him. That's not his game. My guess is it's because coach Mack is looking for anybody to be able to score down low besides Gaston. I believe when Gates is 100%, and coming in to play small forward, he will create mismatches again and be effective. I don't know what to think about big Shawn. He doesn't seem to have the muscle mass to carve out space like he did last year. I hope he's practicing well. If so, he can get it turned around
Chris concerned about Gates. " he had a scope, not an amputation ". Opponents drove around him at will

bobbiemcgee
12-18-2016, 04:30 PM
I've always liked Danny Manning as a player and a coach. Classy guy. Liked that they stayed around for the trophy presentation with Mrs. Prosser and clapped for our Muskies. His team couldn't throw it in the ocean the last few minutes or we would have had a different outcome. I think they'll cause some trouble in their conf. Glad to get this one behind us.

mistabeecee41
12-19-2016, 09:04 AM
Chris concerned about Gates. " he had a scope, not an amputation ". Opponents drove around him at will

Gates is supposed to be a knock down shooter and a guy who can guard all positions. Right now, he can't hit shots, bigs are scoring on him easily, and guards and driving right past him.

GoMuskies
12-19-2016, 09:39 AM
Gates is supposed to be a knock down shooter and a guy who can guard all positions. Right now, he can't hit shots, bigs are scoring on him easily, and guards and driving right past him.

Well sure, but other than that he's been excellent.

Masterofreality
12-19-2016, 10:35 AM
xavier recruited him as a pg and thats where he'll play.

Xavier recruited him as a combo guard. He'll play some at each position unless Ed comes back then he'll play the 2. Q will be the 1.
If Ed doesn't come back, Paul will alternate like Ed is doing now.
Q's just gotta learn the College game.

XUGRAD80
12-19-2016, 10:48 AM
While this is getting way off the OP, I'll give you my take.....

CMack is following the 'Nova model where you take a big man that can't be guarded one on one and stick him in the middle. You then surround him with 4 fairly interchangeable players that can all handle the ball, pass, drive, and shoot. You then let the opposition figure out what they want to try and take away...the inside game by double teaming, which leaves players open on the outside OR they can guard the outside players and try to control the big man one on one. Choose your poison. The old point guard, shooting/off guard, small/strong forward positions are somewhat outdated designations anymore.

Masterofreality
12-19-2016, 11:03 AM
While this is getting way off the OP, I'll give you my take.....

CMack is following the 'Nova model where you take a big man that can't be guarded one on one and stick him in the middle. You then surround him with 4 fairly interchangeable players that can all handle the ball, pass, drive, and shoot. You then let the opposition figure out what they want to try and take away...the inside game by double teaming, which leaves players open on the outside OR they can guard the outside players and try to control the big man one on one. Choose your poison. The old point guard, shooting/off guard, small/strong forward positions are somewhat outdated designations anymore.

This! Well said and reps!

GoMuskies
12-19-2016, 11:23 AM
CMack is following the 'Nova model where you take a big man that can't be guarded one on one and stick him in the middle.

I like Gaston, but I don't think he qualifies. And certainly none of our other bigs currently qualify.

bleedXblue
12-19-2016, 12:08 PM
Xavier recruited him as a combo guard. He'll play some at each position unless Ed comes back then he'll play the 2. Q will be the 1.
If Ed doesn't come back, Paul will alternate like Ed is doing now.
Q's just gotta learn the College game.

Most D1 "combo" guards can put the ball on the floor and score. Gates either can't do that, or he's just not comfortable enough to take his man off the dribble. He's purely one dimensional on the offensive end right now........and he's making 3's at an abysmal rate........I hope it can be chalked up to the injury and it just taking time for him to come back.

XUFan09
12-19-2016, 12:54 PM
Most D1 "combo" guards can put the ball on the floor and score. Gates either can't do that, or he's just not comfortable enough to take his man off the dribble. He's purely one dimensional on the offensive end right now........and he's making 3's at an abysmal rate........I hope it can be chalked up to the injury and it just taking time for him to come back.
They're talking about Scruggs, not Gates.

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bleedXblue
12-19-2016, 01:40 PM
They're talking about Scruggs, not Gates.

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oh, ok

XUGRAD80
12-19-2016, 06:21 PM
I like Gaston, but I don't think he qualifies. And certainly none of our other bigs currently qualify.

True....but I believe that he is hoping that Jones and/or Jones can be that player in the future. Gaston is merely a stopgap player while waiting for the current Jones to develop and the future Jones to arrive.

XUFan09
12-19-2016, 06:23 PM
True....but I believe that he is hoping that Jones and/or Jones can be that player in the future. Gaston is merely a stopgap player while waiting for the current Jones to develop and the future Jones to arrive.
That's not gonna be confusing at all next season.

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xu82
12-19-2016, 07:28 PM
That's not gonna be confusing at all next season.

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Big Jones, and BIGGER Jones?

Harryfe
12-19-2016, 08:20 PM
Most D1 "combo" guards can put the ball on the floor and score. Gates either can't do that, or he's just not comfortable enough to take his man off the dribble. He's purely one dimensional on the offensive end right now........and he's making 3's at an abysmal rate........I hope it can be chalked up to the injury and it just taking time for him to come back.
You say Gates is one dimensional. What dimension is that? I haven't even seen one dimension. And he has been back for a month!!!

xu82
12-19-2016, 08:29 PM
You say Gates is one dimensional. What dimension is that? I haven't even seen one dimension. And he has been back for a month!!!

Well, he thought they were talking about Gates when they were actually talking about Scruggs (as you could read up-thread), but is your point just to bitch? He'll get his game back in time.

Harryfe
12-19-2016, 09:22 PM
Well, he thought they were talking about Gates when they were actually talking about Scruggs (as you could read up-thread), but is your point just to bitch? He'll get his game back in time.
No. I think Tre, Ed, JP and Rashid have been very fine players. Malcolm has filled in adequately. But Gates and Sean have been very disappointing to date. I believe some fans have expected too much from Gates. You talk about him getting his game back but even Chris said "he had a scope not an amputation ". I guess he is just bitching also. He was very critical of the bench after the Wake game.

xu82
12-19-2016, 09:45 PM
Yes, Sean has had a disappointing start, and he no longer starts the games, with his minutes diminishing. Gates is slowly coming back after surgery. I'll give him time and allow for improvement. Do you trust coach Mack? I do.

Harryfe
12-19-2016, 10:34 PM
Yes, Sean has had a disappointing start, and he no longer starts the games, with his minutes diminishing. Gates is slowly coming back after surgery. I'll give him time and allow for improvement. Do you trust coach Mack? I do.
I do trust CM . He is disappointed in bench including Gates as am I

XUFan09
12-19-2016, 11:09 PM
Mack is disappointed in Gates' play so far (and I agree with him), but Gates has shown some reason why he belongs. I just wish he would show it more consistently.

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paulxu
12-20-2016, 06:43 AM
Xavier Scout
‏@musketeerreport

An hour after wrapping up a tough game personally, Kaiser Gates is currently in the aux gym at Cintas getting in a workout.

XUMIOH12
12-20-2016, 09:49 AM
No. I think Tre, Ed, JP and Rashid have been very fine players. Malcolm has filled in adequately. But Gates and Sean have been very disappointing to date. I believe some fans have expected too much from Gates. You talk about him getting his game back but even Chris said "he had a scope not an amputation ". I guess he is just bitching also. He was very critical of the bench after the Wake game.

This bolded part is VERY true. Some people were expecting him to all of a sudden become a star player.

markchal
12-20-2016, 09:58 AM
This bolded part is VERY true. Some people were expecting him to all of a sudden become a star player.

I feel guilty of this. I thought he might actually start for us. In flashes he showed some good defense last year, he has a decent handle which I thought might help him be a mismatch at the 4, and he's supposedly the best shooter on the team (which hasn't manifested itself much in a small sample size). I think he can be a good player for us, but he's a sophomore, so he's not going to be as consistent as I maybe thought.

XUMIOH12
12-20-2016, 10:04 AM
I feel guilty of this. I thought he might actually start for us. In flashes he showed some good defense last year, he has a decent handle which I thought might help him be a mismatch at the 4, and he's supposedly the best shooter on the team (which hasn't manifested itself much in a small sample size). I think he can be a good player for us, but he's a sophomore, so he's not going to be as consistent as I maybe thought.

the problem with expecting that is that he played just 10 minutes per game last year on a loaded team and wasn't asked to do much (which leads to fans only remembering the good things that he did, and then thinking he would do those things constantly with more minutes).

markchal
12-20-2016, 10:21 AM
the problem with expecting that is that he played just 10 minutes per game last year on a loaded team and wasn't asked to do much (which leads to fans only remembering the good things that he did, and then thinking he would do those things constantly with more minutes).

yeah, I have definitely realized the folly. Hopefully he, O'Mara and Bernard can be solid bench pieces for us (along with some spot production from Q/Jones).

xufan2434
12-20-2016, 11:07 AM
the problem with expecting that is that he played just 10 minutes per game last year on a loaded team and wasn't asked to do much (which leads to fans only remembering the good things that he did, and then thinking he would do those things constantly with more minutes).

Completely agree. I just remember Mack saying that he was an elite defender and can guard multiple positions (still true). But most of his offensive game was being a screener and popping out when open. This year he doesn't have that exact role because they need more scoring from him. Only problem is only way I've seen him score is catch and shoot 3's or the occasional offensive rebound put back. If he could somehow develop a mid-range game where he could face defenders up, then I think he would become really good.

It does look like he's gotten bigger since last year. I just have 0 clue what his possible post game would look like.

XUMIOH12
12-20-2016, 12:26 PM
Completely agree. I just remember Mack saying that he was an elite defender and can guard multiple positions (still true). But most of his offensive game was being a screener and popping out when open. This year he doesn't have that exact role because they need more scoring from him. Only problem is only way I've seen him score is catch and shoot 3's or the occasional offensive rebound put back. If he could somehow develop a mid-range game where he could face defenders up, then I think he would become really good.

It does look like he's gotten bigger since last year. I just have 0 clue what his possible post game would look like.

yeah his post game apparently is non-existent right now. At this point, offensively, he is pretty much an Ethan Wragge who can't shoot, aka worthless. I like Gates and he has definitely added some good weight this past offseason. I think he will be a better player throughout this season and a good player for Xavier in the near future.

XUMIOH12
12-20-2016, 12:28 PM
yeah his post game apparently is non-existent right now. At this point, offensively, he is pretty much an Ethan Wragge who can't shoot, aka worthless. I like Gates and he has definitely added some good weight this past offseason. I think he will be a better player throughout this season and a good player for Xavier in the near future.

i mean shit, all he has to do is knock down around 40% or better from 3 and play good D and he becomes a pretty good player.