Game Thread: Xavier v. Baylor (December 3, 2016)

[Muskie]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2752.png&h=150&w=150vs.http://www.xavierhoops.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2117&stc=1


December 3, 2016
Game Time: 3:30 p.m.
Ferrell Center
Waco, Texas
Radio:

TV: ESPN2

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

[MuskieCinci]

When does ESPN start doing it's College Game Days for basketball season? A Saturday top ten matchup being played in someone's actual gym instead of a neutral court must be pretty rare before conference play and would probably be a slam dunk decision, but I don't think it starts until football season ends.

This is a huge OOC matchup for us, and would be a big feather in the cap if we are looking to garner a number 1 or 2 seed. Baylor's can be very dangerous though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4vZvZ0Zv88

[sgarcia]

When does ESPN start doing it's College Game Days for basketball season? A Saturday top ten matchup being played in someone's actual gym instead of a neutral court must be pretty rare before conference play and would probably be a slam dunk decision, but I don't think it starts until football season ends.

This is a huge OOC matchup for us, and would be a big feather in the cap if we are looking to garner a number 1 or 2 seed. Baylor's can be very dangerous though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4vZvZ0Zv88

I think they do 8 of them or so starting around the 2nd weekend in January. I'm sure if you go look at the schedule of games for each Saturday you could probably figure out where they'll be. I believe Duke/UNC is always gameday the last weekend of the season.

[letskeepitreal]

Wow, this is going to be an incredible game. Baylor's length and athleticism up front may give us problems but I think we have a distinct advantage at guard play and on the wing. If we can pull this off it will shut up all the naysayers out there. I am amazed how much better I feel about our frontcourt depth with the return of Kaiser Gates. We will need his athleticism especially on defense this weekend. Let's go X!

[xufan2434]

Honestly, I don't expect X to win this game on the road. Baylor is the real deal and have already played far better competition than we have so far this year. I don't think it'll be a blow out, but I expect it to be a 10 point game by the end in favor of Baylor. I really do think X's bigs get exposed for the first time this game. Hope I'm wrong, but that's what I see. Win/Lose this is going to be great early season experience in a hostile environment for a team still trying to find themselves. It's going to go a go a long way towards the end goal

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wow, this is going to be an incredible game. Baylor's length and athleticism up front may give us problems but I think we have a distinct advantage at guard play and on the wing. If we can pull this off it will shut up all the naysayers out there. I am amazed how much better I feel about our frontcourt depth with the return of Kaiser Gates. We will need his athleticism especially on defense this weekend. Let's go X!

Are you seeing a lot of naysayers out there? I think mostly positive things are being said about X.

[xu82]

I'm obviously hoping for a great road win here, but there is a lot of value in this game regardless. This kind of a test in a hostile environment should help us later in the season regardless of outcome. And a loss wouldn't hurt nearly as much as dropping a game to Missouri. Boy am I glad we got through that!

[XUMIOH12]

if Xavier bigs play well and rebound, keep baylor off the O boards, then it will be a win. If not, Baylor will win.

[XUMIOH12]

I'm obviously hoping for a great road win here, but there is a lot of value in this game regardless. This kind of a test in a hostile environment should help us later in the season regardless of outcome. And a loss wouldn't hurt nearly as much as dropping a game to Missouri. Boy am I glad we got through that!

not sure i'd really label Baylor as a truly hostile environment

[xu82]

not sure i'd really label Baylor as a truly hostile environment

It's a big Saturday afternoon road game against an AP Top 10 program. It get that it may not be UK or Duke, but I'll take it as a good challenge and beneficial experience. It won't be friendly, despite our best efforts to fill some seats. (Glad so many of you will be attending!)

[XUMIOH12]

It's a big Saturday afternoon road game against an AP Top 10 program. It get that it may not be UK or Duke, but I'll take it as a good challenge and beneficial experience. It won't be friendly, despite our best efforts to fill some seats. (Glad so many of you will be attending!)

it'll definitely be a great road test against a very good team. If they can win this one, it will give a lot of confidence for the conference road games too.
I'll be interested to see how the crowd looks for this game. They only averaged 6,410 in attendance last season, but this is obviously a huge game, we'll see if their fans realize that.

[X-band '01]

Their arena holds 10,284 for basketball games - word on BaylorFans.com is that less than 2,000 tickets remain for Saturday's game.

[xu82]

The conflict with their football game at WV may help some. Let the drunk kids go sit in front of their TV's.

[GoMuskies]

less than 2,000 tickets remain for Saturday's game.

That's pathetic

[XMuskieFTW]

Me and my obnoxious voice will be there so that's at least a 2-3 point swing our way. Feeling cautiously optimistic.

[bleedXblue]

That's pathetic

they're a football school......

[bleedXblue]

I like our chances if we can stay out of foul trouble in the post.......

[xu82]

they're a football school......

Living in the south, that's about all that matters. Wonder if they're aware the football team hovers near .500 and they have a top 10 basketball team? WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[MauriceX]

if Xavier bigs play well and rebound, keep baylor off the O boards, then it will be a win. If not, Baylor will win.

In my opinion, the team that scores the most points is going to win the game. :happy:

[paulxu]

At the risk of overstating the obvious....for Xavier this game is HUGE.

[paulxu]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein · 50m50 minutes ago

In addition to 9 Big East road games, Xavier still has to play at Baylor, at Colorado, & at Cincinnati. Might be toughest road slate in CBB.

[X-ceptional]

In my opinion, the team that scores the most points is going to win the game. :happy:

Big, if true!

[XMuskieFTW]

Line at Baylor -4. About as expected.

[GoMuskies]

Line at Baylor -4. About as expected.

I'll be banging that money line hard core. Probably +160 or 180.

[bleedXblue]

if you look at the team stats, we are very close in just about every category.

FG% 3PT FG% FT% REB/Game PPG

X 47% 32% 72% 40 78
Baylor 47% 34% 74% 36 73

[paulxu]

if you look at the team stats, we are very close in just about every category.

PPG

X 78
Baylor 73

That would be a very acceptable result.

[xu82]

That would be a very acceptable result.

Glad you like it, I might win pick the score with that. At least I'd be in the ball park for a change! So......that won't be close at all.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'll be banging that money line hard core. Probably +160 or 180.

Hold off...the line has already jumped to -5.5. If that continues, you'll easily get 2/1.

[paulxu]

I'll be banging that money line hard core. Probably +160 or 180.


Hold off...the line has already jumped to -5.5. If that continues, you'll easily get 2/1.

I wish I knew what this stuff meant.

[GoMuskies]

I wish I knew what this stuff meant.

You're definitely better off not knowing.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You're definitely better off not knowing.

Ha, so true.

[paulxu]

Are we wearing white uniforms today because they are wearing green, or something?

[BMoreX]

Are we wearing white uniforms today because they are wearing green, or something?

I would bet so.

[X-band '01]

Maybe it's also a blackout game for them - I'd think Xavier would have work black if Baylor had the hi-lighter unis today.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Maybe it's also a blackout game for them - I'd think Xavier would have work black if Baylor had the hi-lighter unis today.

Yeah, I saw a post on BaylorFans mentioning it's a blackout game.

[THRILLHOUSE]

My view for today's festivities

http://i.imgur.com/ANI5lOH.jpg

[xu82]

Are people stuck outside in the security lines?

Sorry, just trying to make a little trouble with my nervous energy.

[paulxu]

We better bring the A game to this one. Sort of wish we had Myles.

Play Ball!

[X Factor]

Any live stream for this game?

[paulxu]

That tall guy is a mismatch for Bluiett.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Tre on fire!

[BMoreX]

Motley is abusing Blueitt.

[MarvAlbert]

Any live stream for this game?

Watch ESPN app or watchespn.com

[paulxu]

Won the first two 4 minute wars.

Keep it up!

[X-Men]

Motley could be a beast on the next level.

[Caf]

Let's see how long it takes for Baylor to realize Gates is dirty from 3.

[X Factor]

Kaiser!

[novachap]

Hello folks... X looking good. Different team with Gates on the floor. Good luck!

[X-Men]

Motley keeps creeping away from Kaiser in the corner and getting waved back.

[letskeepitreal]

I am just amazed how just having Gates back improves our front court so much.

[X Factor]

Big boy work on the glass by Tyrique!

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Still too many TO.

[letskeepitreal]

I am kinda amazed how well we are rebounding then Baylor seems bigger and more athletic. I really like Tyrique.

[bjf123]

Who are our bigs getting so many shots blocked?


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[X Factor]

We have 7 offensive rebounds...all from the bench.

[X-Men]

Gotta win the last war this half.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Way to many missed bunnies!!!

[X Factor]

Gaston cannot finish!

[X-Men]

Way to many missed bunnies!!!

I love Gaston's play so far, but that's 4 points we should have.

[X Factor]

JP is 2-10 from the field. Still winning.

[SlimKibbles]

The guy about five rows from the floor, right in line with the visitors coaching line, and constantly standing in the aisle jumping around waving a towel while wearing a Baylor jersey and white sleeves on his arms is annoying the hell out of me.

[letskeepitreal]

Not a bad first half but I worry a bit when scores are a little low as that means less transition points but overall gotta be happy

[BMoreX]

Limit the turnovers, keep the intensity on the glass, and we can win this thing.

[AviatorX]

Not a bad first half but I worry a bit when scores are a little low as that means less transition points but overall gotta be happy

Baylor plays at one of if not the slowest paces in the nation.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not bad overall, glad to be up but we should have at least 6-8 more points from missed bunnies.

Great on the boards though, need to clean up the turnovers.

[X-Men]

Handle the trap better and finish.

[X Factor]

So many layups missed.

[X-Men]

Baylor will be in the bonus before the first media timeout.

[X Factor]

If Gaston could finish, he would have 10-12 points

[D-West & PO-Z]

If Gaston could finish, he would have 10-12 points

Its not just him but he is the main culprit right now.

[letskeepitreal]

Man his pace of play sucks and I think problematic for us

[X Factor]

JP now 2-13 from the field.

[paulxu]

Sometimes I get frustrated.
We're winning the boards, but can't shoot 50% at the line.
Overall % at 37 versus their 47. If it wasn't for the 3's we'd be toast.

Come on Muskies!!! You can get this SOB.

[X Factor]

Guys need to start making some shots in a hurry

[X Factor]

Big three Trevon!

[X Factor]

JP's gonna keep jacking them up til the end. Like the confidence, but need to get Tre and Ed some shots.

[X-Men]

Let's keep fouling 90 feet away. This is a terrible swing for us. Had a chance to really get a decent lead.

[X Factor]

This sucks. Offense can't get anything going now. Turnovers are killing us.

[BMoreX]

Not playing well without Trevon in.

[D-West & PO-Z]

JP needs to sit down for a bit. When will he learn to value the ball? His passes have been horrific.

[mistabeecee41]

JP has the green light, but he's gotta start taking smarter shots to break out of this slump.

[nasdadjr]

This game is showing how much we miss Myles. Sumner is a 2 not a 1 and it doesn't help when he is so unconfident in his shot he won't take a wide open jumper.

[nasdadjr]

To me it is simple we win this game by 9 with Myles we are going to lose by 9 with him out

[X Factor]

To me it is simple we win this game by 9 with Myles we are going to lose by 9 with him out

Baseless statement.

[X Factor]

Killing ourselves

[RealDeal]

Jp got mauled.

[paulxu]

I blame Ken Starr.

[nasdadjr]

Baseless statement.

Like I care

[X Factor]

12-22 from the FT line! Are you kidding me?

[BMoreX]

Jp got mauled.

Yeah idk how you miss that.

[kellernr]

Can't have omara, Bernard and gaston in at the same time. Where is Jones?

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[Xville]

Well, didnt expect us to win this one and doesnt look like we will. Cant win when you shoot like this. Is what it is.

[X-Men]

Killing ourselves

Yup this is more about our sloppy play this half than Baylor's play. They certainly have more energy this half, but time after time we keep shooting ourselves in the foot. Poor FT shooting, not finishing, careless passing. Need a run real fast to get some confidence back.

[paulxu]

12-22 from the FT line! Are you kidding me?

Could cost us the game.

[BMoreX]

Yeah idk how you miss that.

omg hey called that on jp

[X Factor]

Gaston is just terrible around the rim.

[nasdadjr]

Let's see if history is any indicator Xavier should drop from number 7 to around 24 after this loss

[BandAid]

Cue Will Farrell from "Step Brothers": those game is horseshit!

[paulxu]

I think whoever commented earlier on the pace of play was spot on. W
We were doing a lot better when we pushed the pace in the first half.

Sloppy play has cost us even more. Got to drive Mack crazy.

[X Factor]

Not gonna win shooting 32% from the field and 54% from the FT line.

[xufan2020]

I know we still got a run in us. Omara cannot stay in this game though. Come on X

[GoMuskies]

Our offense is shifty when the threes don't fall. It's really shitty when we shoot FTs like this.

[kellernr]

I think whoever commented earlier on the pace of play was spot on. W
We were doing a lot better when we pushed the pace in the first half.

Sloppy play has cost us even more. Got to drive Mack crazy.
Mack putting in 3 guys that can't contribute offensively at the same time really hurt us too. The only offense we had on the court was Sumner and JP can't hit anything today.

I really hope our bigs spend some time shooting free throws because they are pathetic and not even close to making them.

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[X Factor]

JP has stunk today

[bjf123]

Stick us with a fork. We're done.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

JP has stunk today

Yeah not his day, he has killed us. Terrible passes and cant make anything.

We really miss Myles on a day like today where it would have been nice to sit JP for a bit. But have to keep him in hoping he makes better decisions and gets it going without Myles.

[mistabeecee41]

They're a better team than we are, as simple as that. Are they better than us when we have Myles and JP remembers how to play basketball? Probably not.

[BandAid]

Bluiett greeting his third foul and being taken out of the game was the "blood in he water" moment. Now the run is on.

[X-Men]

This just got embarrassing.

[paulxu]

With our schedule, we would win exactly 0 games if we shoot 30% like today. That simple.

Maybe a more telling stat is that we have 7 Asts and 15 TO's. That's some sloppy play.

[bjf123]

Should have gone with my head and not my heart in the pick the score thread, though I still wouldn't have picked this big of loss.


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[X Factor]

30% from the field...

[Xville]

We arent a top ten team...we just arent. Frontcourt doesnt allow us to be.

[X Factor]

Out scored 40-19 in the second half

[nasdadjr]

In the game got nine 3's and six 2 point baskets. How is that even possible

[X Factor]

We arent a top ten team...we just arent. Frontcourt doesnt allow us to be.

O'Mara is good against slow, nonathletic bigs. Gaston can't finish against anyone.

[xufan2020]

We arent a top ten team...we just arent. Frontcourt doesnt allow us to be.
Nonsense, they battled hard. Davis would've been huge in helping our stagnant offense.

[bjf123]

We arent a top ten team...we just arent. Frontcourt doesnt allow us to be.

I've thought we were overrated all along. Probably Top 20, but not Top 10.


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[nasdadjr]

Should have gone with my head and not my heart in the pick the score thread, though I still wouldn't have picked this big of loss.


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Can't say the same I knew we had no chance to win. The only positive is that young guys and transfers got big game experience before conference play. This ain't Norfolk St. or Florida Atlantic. Hope this helps our guys down the road.

Side note how about a little flak on Bernard. I'm gonna have to nickname him Houdini

[Xville]

Nonsense, they battled hard. Davis would've been huge in helping our stagnant offense.

I didnt realize davis can play forward? Myles is good but give me a break..we werent winning this game with him either. We arent a top ten team...we have a pretty glaring weakness

[SkyWalker]

Overrated!

[drudy23]

In the game got nine 3's and six 2 point baskets. How is that even possible

Because we live or die with 3 perimeter players.

[Blue Blobs Bro]

Dear Chris Mack, where the fuck was trevon bluiett in that second half

[D-West & PO-Z]

I didnt realize davis can play forward? Myles is good but give me a break..we werent winning this game with him either. We arent a top ten team...we have a pretty glaring weakness

Time will tell, didnt look like it today but Myles would have been a huge help with JP having his worst game ever as a Muskie.

Trevon's foul trouble was a turning point. Frontcourt is a weakness but I think it can be good enough. Jones will only improve and Gaston wont miss 6 layups again.

I think you are correct somewhat but overreacting overall.

[X Factor]

We led by 3 at the half. Second half was a disaster, but it was a true road in a pretty hard place to win.

I still think this team is Top 10 quality team. Need bigs to finish around the rim better. Need more than one guy to hit some threes in a game.

Good learning experience.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Dear Chris Mack, where the fuck was trevon bluiett in that second half

Foul trouble. He came back in and made a stupid decision to reach in on a drive and got 4 and had to come right back out.

[XU 87]

I didnt realize davis can play forward? Myles is good but give me a break..we werent winning this game with him either. We arent a top ten team...we have a pretty glaring weakness

Relax. X lost to a top ten team at their gym.

Davis would have made a difference today. They needed someone who could shoot threes today other than Bluiett. Macura couldn't throw the ball in the
ocean today.

I will say- big man free throw shooting is a concern. They need to at least make 50%. Not sure they made even one today.

[KFX]

man I love X bball but I cannot stand some of its fans Calling X overrated??? what the hell are you talking about? we got beat on the road by the 9 team in the country and had a horrible shooting night it happens -- Villanova beat us by 30 plus last year. complete assholes imho

[sirthought]

What a frustrating second half.

I know it will be unpopular, but I think Mack shoulders a lot of responsibility. He needed to call timeout and settle his team down, call some plays, and help them get organized.

So many three shots that had no one in place to rebound. Too many sketchy inside or baseline passes. Big men not going up strong enough.

This team obviously has tremendous talent, but not always the IQ to execute. That's where the coaching needs to step up and help.

[Xville]

Relax. X lost to a top ten team at their gym.

Davis would have made a difference today. They needed someone who could shoot threes today other than Bluiett. Macura couldn't throw the ball in the
ocean today.

I will say- big man free throw shooting is a concern. They need to at least make 50%. Not sure they made even one today.

Im fine...i just dont think this team is a top ten team. I think we were way overrated in the preseason based off of last year when we had a solid frontcourt to go along with our dynamic backcourt.

[drudy23]

We have zero people to throw the ball into to feel confident in getting a bucket. That makes u pretty easy to guard, especially against very good teams. Need Kaiser to play inside for the good of the team.

[SkyWalker]

Foul trouble. He came back in and made a stupid decision to reach in on a drive and got 4 and had to come right back out.

Not that the TV announcers ever mentions that.

[Cheesehead]

Really missed Myles today. Our bigs really need to pick it up or X will struggle this season. Too much perimeter and not enough inside outside action. The free throw shooting was atrocious and Gaston needs to learn how to catch and finish. It's early but definitely some room for improvement in a lot of areas. Second half made my eyes bleed.

[KFX]

man I love X bball but I cannot stand some of its fans Calling X overrated??? what the hell are you talking about? we got beat on the road by the 9 team in the country and had a horrible shooting night it happens -- Villanova beat us by 30 plus last year. complete assholes imho

sorry just realized one of the guys I'm reacting to has a star wars avatar -- says it all really

[Cheesehead]

Have you ever had worse announcers who did not provide any details of the actual game. All they did was tell stories. They were f-ing terrible. I had to switch to Joe and Byron even though it's not in sync with tv broadcast.

[drudy23]

Be honest, without a servicable big, are we really the 7th best team in the country? We're not bad, just not 7th. We'll be fine.

[scoscox]

Word ^. observations: coming out having bluiett guarding motley was not a good decision, boom easy foul trouble that benches our best player. Didn't utilize out perimeter length until the end of the game. Need to shoot free throws better. Could've really used myles today. Would've helped break the zone and opened up the lane for our slashers and big guys to work. Farnham and hollenberg called it like they were baylor's radio team. Farnham's always awful

[letskeepitreal]

We knew that this was a dangerous game and that Baylor was tough given everything they've done earlier this year. The disappointing thing was our inside game in the second half as well as rebounding. They were just tougher than us on the inside in the 2nd half and with the way JP was playing.....

[American X]

Baylor played great defense at home and won. Give them credit, they are a worthy opponent. This makes for a miserable December afternoon, but will make us better for conference play and March.

[scoscox]

Not that the TV announcers ever mentions that.

After Bluiett hit the three at the end "hasn't been enough of that". no shit cause he's been on the bench you freaking moron. Farnham is awful

[LA Muskie]

What a frustrating second half.

I know it will be unpopular, but I think Mack shoulders a lot of responsibility. He needed to call timeout and settle his team down, call some plays, and help them get organized.

So many three shots that had no one in place to rebound. Too many sketchy inside or baseline passes. Big men not going up strong enough.

This team obviously has tremendous talent, but not always the IQ to execute. That's where the coaching needs to step up and help.

The obligatory Timeout post. Phew! I was worried we were losing our mojo around here.


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[paulxu]

One of the big differences in this game was JP being out of sync.

He's a 43% shooter...and today was 2 for 16...12.5%.
He's a 34% shooter from 3...and today was 1-6.

He's really struggled the last 2 games. We need him to get back on track.

[sirthought]

I think the bigs do have to improve, but in some fairness to them, I'd say this Baylor team had a very impressive front court duo. And their bench had some matchup challenges as well (speed, outside shooting). I think the announcers got it right when they said X was great at getting the rebounds, but weren't tough enough going for the second chance points. They may not be athletic enough to get up and force those put backs and dunks.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not that the TV announcers ever mentions that.

Ugh dont get me started! They were horrible and didnt announce any of the fouls at all!!!

[PattyMac1021]

Trevon's foul trouble was a turning point. Frontcourt is a weakness but I think it can be good enough. Jones will only improve and Gaston wont miss 6 layups again.


Unfortunately I have to disagree with this. Really hoping for the best from Gaston moving forward, but the man cannot score. He routinely misses point blank shots, even against inferior bigs.

[bleedXblue]

We knew our post play was going to be a weakness to start the year. Gaston has shown some glimpses of playing well, but he has horrible hands and cant finish bunnies. I hope some of that is nerves still. Sean will be Sean. Jones is young and will be much better come mid January. Gates is still getting back into things. Tough "L" b/c of the second half. Need to bounce back quickly with Colorado.

[X Factor]

Mack has done a great job at recruiting long, athletic wings. I think he needs to do the same with bigs. O'Mara and Gaston are anchored to the floor.

[SkyWalker]

sorry just realized one of the guys I'm reacting to has a star wars avatar -- says it all really

Hey I love Xavier basketball. I have missed less than 10 Xavier home games in the last 20 years. I just don't think they are a top 10 team now. They have a very limited inside presence and it showed up today. As for the SkyWalker avatar. It's a tribute to Dexter "Skywalker" Bailey who helped start the turnaround of Xavier basketball in the early 80's.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Have you ever had worse announcers who did not provide any details of the actual game. All they did was tell stories. They were f-ing terrible. I had to switch to Joe and Byron even though it's not in sync with tv broadcast.

They were completely inattentive and not doing their job. They probably could have been decent if they decided to call the game instead of talk about whatever they wanted.

[scoscox]

I think our bigs are fine and will get better as kaiser settles in. Baylor is HUGE and they were playing a lot of two-3. Need to be more efficient, but they also destroyed a large Baylor team on the boards. Baylor is a good team and we still don't have myles. I have no doubt we are a top ten team

[XfansinKy]

Ed sure knows he's going to the NBA. Forcing bad shots all year and this one we lost. Almost lost a couple others too playing out of control shooting running, jumping, hook shots. Oh well, Baylor is good but no final 4 unless Ed gets reeled in.

[drudy23]

I think the bigs do have to improve, but in some fairness to them, I'd say this Baylor team had a very impressive front court duo. And their bench had some matchup challenges as well (speed, outside shooting). I think the announcers got it right when they said X was great at getting the rebounds, but weren't tough enough going for the second chance points. They may not be athletic enough to get up and force those put backs and dunks.

Very true...but these are the Sweet 16 / Elite 8 type of teams we will have to get past. X has enough talent to beat most teams...I don't know if they have the bigs to compete once it matters the most.

[X Factor]

Ed sure knows he's going to the NBA. Forcing mad shots all year band this one we lost. Almost lost a couple others too playing out of control shooting running, jumping, hook shots. Oh well, Baylor is good but know final 4 unless Edmonton gets reeled in.

Say what?

[Caf]

Relax. X lost to a top ten team at their gym.

Davis would have made a difference today. They needed someone who could shoot threes today other than Bluiett. Macura couldn't throw the ball in the
ocean today.

I will say- big man free throw shooting is a concern. They need to at least make 50%. Not sure they made even one today.

I don't think I can criticize JP's shooting today. He was the only one willing and able to shoot it today. Everyone has off days, but they get much worse when no one else can take shots. I think this can mostly be attributed to Tre's absence due to foul trouble.

Tre shot 60% from 3 and 2. He has to shoot more. We're not going to win many games when JP and Sumner are the only ones trying to make plays off of the dribble.

[sirthought]

The obligatory Timeout post. Phew! I was worried we were losing our mojo around here.


Okay, you're mocking my comment, but don't you think there were upteen bad possessions that he could have called time and gotten them in a better mindset to execute?

It's not exactly a bad coaching move. Mack wasn't doing it repeatedly. And yeah, I'm questioning him.

[scoscox]

Hey I love Xavier basketball. I have missed less than 10 Xavier home games in the last 20 years. I just don't think they are a top 10 team now. They have a very limited an inside presence and it showed up today. As for the SkyWalker avatar. It's a tribute to Dexter "Skywalker" Bailey who helped start the turnaround of Xavier basketball in the early 80's.

Dawg, they outrebounded baylor by twelve. They didn't convert well or hit free throws, but Baylor is probably the biggest/bet frontcourt team we'll play all year. you're overblowing it.

[XfansinKy]

Say what?

Haha had a lot of auto correcting to do.

[drudy23]

We're not going to win many games when JP and Sumner are the only ones trying to make plays off of the dribble.

Um...that's how we won the first 7.

[LA Muskie]

Today we all saw what we all knew about this team but which just hadn't yet been exposed.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

Unfortunately I have to disagree with this. Really hoping for the best from Gaston moving forward, but the man cannot score. He routinely misses point blank shots, even against inferior bigs.

He averaged 16 points against inferior bigs at Norfolk. He obviously cant and wont do that but he can be much better scoring down low than he has shown. We dont need him to be an alll conference player down there just somewhat better. Hopefully he continues to adjust.

[KFX]

Hey I love Xavier basketball. I have missed less than 10 Xavier home games in the last 20 years. I just don't think they are a top 10 team now. They have a very limited an inside presence and it showed up today. As for the SkyWalker avatar. It's a tribute to Dexter "Skywalker" Bailey who helped start the turnaround of Xavier basketball in the early 80's.

fair enough but your post said "overrated" that was it I'm happy our program started the season ranked top ten -- I think we deserve that ranking I used to watch the team at Schmidt these are good times for X calling them overrated is something other fans should be doing imho we have one of the best coaches and programs in the country I'm proud of that

[SkyWalker]

Dawg, they outrebounded baylor by twelve. They didn't convert well or hit free throws, but Baylor is probably the biggest/bet frontcourt team we'll play all year. you're overblowing it.

When you get an offensive rebound two feet from the basket you need to finish or make the free throws. Our inside players did neither. Gotta step up in big games.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't think I can criticize JP's shooting today. He was the only one willing and able to shoot it today. Everyone has off days, but they get much worse when no one else can take shots. I think this can mostly be attributed to Tre's absence due to foul trouble.

Tre shot 60% from 3 and 2. He has to shoot more. We're not going to win many games when JP and Sumner are the only ones trying to make plays off of the dribble.

JP's passing is what drives me crazy with him at times, he does not value the ball even in crucial possessions, he needs to improve that. He is going to have off shooting nights. Definitely his worst game as a Muskie.

[bjf123]

man I love X bball but I cannot stand some of its fans Calling X overrated??? what the hell are you talking about? we got beat on the road by the 9 team in the country and had a horrible shooting night it happens -- Villanova beat us by 30 plus last year. complete assholes imho

Overrated at #7? Yes. I think we were. Will we continue to improve and be a Top 10 team late in the year? Yes. I think we will.


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[SkyWalker]

fair enough but your post said "overrated" that was it I'm happy our program started the season ranked top ten -- I think we deserve that ranking I used to watch the team at Schmidt these are good times for X calling them overrated is something other fans should be doing imho we have one of the best coaches and programs in the country I'm proud of that

I am happy with our start too. I just don't think we are top ten right now. This was our first big test and we played well in the first half. Baylor made half time adjustments and took everything away from us in the second half. Top 15-20 probably and we can definitely improve.

[Cheesehead]

The free throws reallly killed our momentum. There were two trip where X missed both free throws and then fouled. Double whammy. It's just like a turnover.

[LA Muskie]

Okay, you're mocking my comment, but don't you think there were upteen bad possessions that he could have called time and gotten them in a better mindset to execute?

It's not exactly a bad coaching move. Mack wasn't doing it repeatedly. And yeah, I'm questioning him.

I hear what you're saying. But it's pretty obvious to me that Mack intentionally forces his team to play through rough patches without timeouts in the OOC. To the point that I'm actually surprised when he calls TO's. As a fan it can be tough to handle, but I do think it pays dividends down the road.


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[LA Muskie]

Unless Myles suddenly grew 6 inches and developed a post game during his suspension, he wouldn't have made a difference today.


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[SkyWalker]

Unless Myles suddenly grew 6 inches and developed a post game during his suspension, he wouldn't have made a difference today.


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He would be another outside option but you are probably correct.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Unless Myles suddenly grew 6 inches and developed a post game during his suspension, he wouldn't have made a difference today.


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Disagree big time.

[D-West & PO-Z]

People act like our bigs are the only ones we got nothing out of today. Our backcourt was not good. Did Bernard even score? We know JP was terrible.

[LA Muskie]

Disagree big time.

What would he have done? He would have had to jack contested 3s or off the dribble mid-range shots -- neither of which is his forte.


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[xudash]

Here's my two cents:

Moving on.

[LA Muskie]

People act like our bigs are the only ones we got nothing out of today. Our backcourt was not good. Did Bernard even score? We know JP was terrible.

A big reason why they struggled is because they had no room to breathe.


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[scoscox]

When you get an offensive rebound two feet from the basket you need to finish or make the free throws. Our inside players did neither. Gotta step up in big games.

Very true, but I stand by what I said and I think those shots will fall as our bigs get more comfortable, so I guess I'm just looking at it from a more positive viewpoint. I didn't expect to dominate the boards like that against a massive baylor frontline. The difference in the game, I thought, was free throw shooting, Tre being in foul trouble, and shooting both inside and from deep. Also, turnovers were a huge problem. Ans Myles wouldve been HUGE when Tre was out in the second half

[scoscox]

A big reason why they struggled is because they had no room to breathe.


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YES! We were getting hammered, but see this is why myles could help. Baylor sat in the zone and packed it in on our bigs and slashers. Myles could've made them pay big time, which was frequently his specialty last year. could've settled the team down, scored slashing or from deep.

[LA Muskie]

YES! We were getting hammered, but see this is why myles could help. Baylor sat in the zone and packed it in on our bigs and slashers. Myles could've made them pay big time, which was frequently his specialty last year.

I didn't see them packing it in all that much. We had very few uncontested shots, particularly in the 2nd half. Even Trevon's shots were mostly well-defended. I think it just seems like they packed it in because they shut down our bigs and limited the dribble drive. But I attribute that much more to their elite athleticism than just packing it in.


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[IM4X]

What a frustrating second half.

I know it will be unpopular, but I think Mack shoulders a lot of responsibility. He needed to call timeout and settle his team down, call some plays, and help them get organized.

So many three shots that had no one in place to rebound. Too many sketchy inside or baseline passes. Big men not going up strong enough.

This team obviously has tremendous talent, but not always the IQ to execute. That's where the coaching needs to step up and help.

I agree.

They lost to a top ten team they could have beaten... and in an embarrassing way.

Players that played well in the first half got away from their game in the second half- looked out of sync and lost their swagger-and then started forcing some bad passes and a bunch of quick low percentage (including two 3 pt attempts by Bernard). The team today really could have used a little more leadership during the last 10-12 minutes from their coach. Unfortunately, he didn't do much to help the situation.

It's not at all a bad loss, but there should never have been that sputter of a finish. Mack spent too much time with his hands on his hips (IMO) allowing his players to do whatever they felt like on offense- which was not much of anything.

[bleedXblue]

Missed FT's, some really bad calls and the inability to take care of the ball were killers. Add to that a bunch of missed oppty in the first half to stretch the lead to double digits. Baylor is good, but we certainly didn't do ourselves any favors. The offense in the second half was abysmal. Give Baylor some credit.

[sirthought]

JPs passing and decision making is a regular concern. He just acts without thinking about his movement.

[scoscox]

I think it was a combination of both, but they were pretty focused on protecting the rim and daring JP and everyone not named Trevon to pull it. And it worked. We lost the game in the stretch where trevon was out because no one could stretch the defense. JP would jack a three or we turned the ball over because they could sit in passing lanes and swat anything at the rim. An experienced ball-handler and excellent three point shooter and distributor would've helped greatly

The defense disappeared in that stretch too

[LA Muskie]

Missed FT's, some really bad calls and the inability to take care of the ball were killers. Add to that a bunch of missed oppty in the first half to stretch the lead to double digits. Baylor is good, but we certainly didn't do ourselves any favors. The offense in the second half was abysmal. Give Baylor some credit.
I think the bold part is a bit of a stretch. It certainly wouldn't have been at the top of my list of the reasons we lost.

[LA Muskie]

JPs passing and decision making is a regular concern. He just acts without thinking about his movement.
I think this is a fair criticism today. But I think he was otherwise our best playmaker through the first 7 games of the season.

[LA Muskie]

I think it was a combination of both, but they were pretty focused on protecting the rim and daring JP and everyone not named Trevon to pull it. And it worked. We lost the game in the stretch where trevon was out because no one could stretch the defense. JP would jack a three or we turned the ball over because they could sit in passing lanes and swat anything at the rim. An experienced ball-handler and excellent three point shooter and distributor would've helped greatly

The defense disappeared in that stretch too
I think what we needed was a post presence. They were able to contest the perimeter because we weren't a risk down low.

[vee4xu]

No inside game reduced X to chucking 3-pointers over Baylor's zone. Result: Baylor 76 Xavier 61.

They better figure that out or others will use it as a blueprint going forward. I'm on the verge of suggesting that Drew out-coached Mack because Mack didn't adjust to Baylor's zone, but since X is such a young team, playing in a tough venue, I won't do so.

[XUGRAD80]

FIRE MACK!

He obviously doesn't know when to call a timeout, can't recruit or coach bigs, has no control over the players on the floor. Heck he probably can't even get the managers organized. Might as well just drop the program and cancel the season while we are at it. Xavier is never going to have any success. I can't even see them winning another game the rest of the year, so why play them?

I've been just waiting for the pessimists to start sprewing this stuff. Just knew that it was going to start up as soon as a loss came about. So now that it's been said, can't we just all take a deep breath, smille, and laugh at our own foolishness? They had a bad half, against a good team, on the other team's floor, in front of national audience, early in DECEMBER. Games like this can pay off big time later in the year. This one should too.

NO team is perfect, especially this time of year. (Notice the KY score? Most point Calipari team has ever given up at UK) '

A....the players need to understand their weaknesses and work to develop them
B....the coaching staff needs to develop plans to put the players into situations where they can succeed.

Based on what we have seen out of many of the players and the coaches, I'm confident this will happen.

[vee4xu]

FIRE MACK!

He obviously doesn't know when to call a timeout, can't recruit or coach bigs, has no control over the players on the floor. Heck he probably can't even get the managers organized. Might as well just drop the program and cancel the season while we are at it. Xavier is never going to have any success. I can't even see them winning another game the rest of the year, so why play them?

I've been just waiting for the pessimists to start sprewing this stuff. Just knew that it was going to start up as soon as a loss came about. So now that it's been said, can't we just all take a deep breath, smille, and laugh at our own foolishness? They had a bad half, against a good team, on the other team's floor, in front of national audience, early in DECEMBER. Games like this can pay off big time later in the year. This one should too.

NO team is perfect, especially this time of year. (Notice the KY score? Most point Calipari team has ever given up at UK) '

A....the players need to understand their weaknesses and work to develop them
B....the coaching staff needs to develop plans to put the players into situations where they can succeed.

Based on what we have seen out of many of the players and the coaches, I'm confident this will happen.

You need to take a deep breath, switch to decaf or both.

[XU 87]

Unless Myles suddenly grew 6 inches and developed a post game during his suspension, he wouldn't have made a difference today.


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We could have used him on the baseline shooting threes against their zone. Broering noted on Scout in his pre-game that the baseline was the weakness of their zone. Once Bluiett left, we had no offense, particularly since Macura couldn't make a shot.

[xukeith]

Overrated at #7? Yes. I think we were. Will we continue to improve and be a Top 10 team late in the year? Yes. I think we will.


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I hope so.

We did out rebound BU after we were pretty bad for last 6 minutes of the game.
Defense was good and rebounding was good.
BU was more athletic in front court.
Imagine XU playing front courts of Duke, UNC, Kansas.
That is what is good about NCAA. It is about match ups and hot shooting. Maybe X will get things resolved (FT shooting, Inside scoring, and TO's).
With Myles in it will help, can't hurt. Even with a cold JP, Mack would have kept him in there as he believes players will get hot.

I predicted a closer loss. But at Colorado and remaining non-conference games are must wins if X wants a top 1-3 seed.

[xukeith]

No inside game reduced X to chucking 3-pointers over Baylor's zone. Result: Baylor 76 Xavier 61.

They better figure that out or others will use it as a blueprint going forward. I'm on the verge of suggesting that Drew out-coached Mack because Mack didn't adjust to Baylor's zone, but since X is such a young team, playing in a tough venue, I won't do so.

100% agree. Good points.

[IM4X]

Ugh dont get me started! They were horrible and didnt announce any of the fouls at all!!!

Agreed. It was as if they were two casual spectators sitting there with headsets- with no real obligation to pass along any relevant info during the game.

[XU 87]

People act like our bigs are the only ones we got nothing out of today. Our backcourt was not good. Did Bernard even score? We know JP was terrible.

Bernard didn't score. JP was 2-16 from the field. On top of that, Bluiett got into foul trouble, and the bigs missed 5 free throws in a row (I think) in the second half.

This was not a good situation for Bernard- he's a 6'3" slasher and wasn't effective going against a tall, athletic zone.

Here's the box score:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400916160

In 40 combined minutes, our three bigs had 7 points and 15 rebounds. Their scoring was affected by our bigs shooting 1-8 from the line. That just can't happen, and the missed free throws was the beginning of the end in this game. 15 rebounds is impressive. Gaston needs to figure how to score right around the hoop when he gets these offensive boards.

Seventeen turnovers also hurt. Take care of the ball. Some dumb turnovers today and some caused by Baylor defense.

[xu82]

It's over. We will move on......and I hope to get them again with Myles on a neutral court - in the Final Four.

Despite today, both teams are good enough to be there.

[IM4X]

No inside game reduced X to chucking 3-pointers over Baylor's zone. Result: Baylor 76 Xavier 61.

They better figure that out or others will use it as a blueprint going forward. I'm on the verge of suggesting that Drew out-coached Mack because Mack didn't adjust to Baylor's zone, but since X is such a young team, playing in a tough venue, I won't do so.

Fair assessment.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I noticed that our bigs never pump fake...pump fakes and mid range jump shots....lost arts in basketball.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What would he have done? He would have had to jack contested 3s or off the dribble mid-range shots -- neither of which is his forte.


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If you dont think our best (or 2nd best) 3 point shooter, our team leader, who avg 10 pts and 4 assists last year, and was great at driving to the bucket and maybe our best finisher at the rim (in a game where multiple bunnies were missed) would have helped us, we willl just have to agree to disagree.

[markchal]

I think we definitely missed Myles for this one. Especially for his leadership. Bernard and Gaston haven't played in games like this, so they were totally ineffective. Same for Goodin (although he didn't play much). JP had a bad day, which put too much of the weight on Tre and Sumner (who could've played much better). Sumner just doesn't seem quite as decisive as he did in his first few games of the season. At times, it looked like we were afraid to take a shot or make a play. Myles has the experience to not be intimidated by the moment, and we were desperately searching for ANYONE to step up while Tre was on the bench with foul trouble.

Overall, though, I agree with the people who see us more in the 15-20 range. I think we missed our shot last year, and even with some improvements, I don't think we can be as good as we were last season. I like Jones (although raw) and I think Gates will be a key player in some games for us this year, but it's just too hard to replacing the size/rebounding/athleticism we lost in Farr/Reynolds (I also miss having bigs that could hit fts).

[XUGRAD80]

You need to take a deep breath, switch to decaf or both.

You do realize in the first part I was being sarcastic, don't you? LOL

[Xville]

I dont understand why some people get so bent out of shape when others like myself believe the team was a bit overrated and not a top 10 team. I see a glaring weakness this year...something we really didnt have last year. We were a top 10 team last year...you think this team is as good as that one? Sorry but i dont see it. Not saying we are terrible or wont make the dance, i just think last year was a really good final four shot, and they kind of blew it. This year, i dont expect aa good a season.

[X-band '01]

To their credit, the Baylor fans weren't chanting "Overrated" - they were chanting "We Want Kansas" instead.

That said, it was frightening to watch the team shoot FTs if you're not Trevon Bluiett or Ed Sumner. Once Baylor adjusted to stop Bluiett and Sumner in the open floor, Xavier was doomed. I did feel better about how they played today than I did when they played at Nova, Seton Hall and Creighton. Those were the only matchups that I didn't like Xavier's chances last season.

Colorado is another winnable game - we'll see how well their conditioning pays off at mile-high altitude.

[JEHARDI]

No inside game reduced X to chucking 3-pointers over Baylor's zone. Result: Baylor 76 Xavier 61.

They better figure that out or others will use it as a blueprint going forward. I'm on the verge of suggesting that Drew out-coached Mack because Mack didn't adjust to Baylor's zone, but since X is such a young team, playing in a tough venue, I won't do so.

Bigs have to be able to finish and hit FT's. Outside of doing those things for them, not sure what adjustments Mack could make.Bigs had plenty of opportunities.

[Lloyd Braun]

Geez... lose a game and then negative nellies have a field day. This was a really really close game until Trevon got in foul trouble. The game would have had a different course if Lecomte was called for the reach in on Ed that turned into the 3-1 against JP. Baylor didn't score but that Lecomte in foul trouble would have been the equalizer as he killed us down the stretch. Baylor is really good and this was a very competitive game for the majority.

[XUGRAD80]

I really thought this would be their toughest OCC game...stated so in another thread after watching the 1st half of them against L'ville....just a bad matchup in style of play and team strengths.

I was very pleased to see that X was able to out rebound a taller front line by 15. I give a lot of that credit to Gaston and the guards. Xavier's guards really do a good job of rebounding.

However, I suspected that those same guards would be prone to turnovers against the Baylor defense, especially after watching them against the Ville. Unfortunately, my fears were not ungrounded. But I suspect that this is more a case of missing Myles and some new pieces getting integrated than actual lack of talent or inability.

When their leader went out of the game they lost their composure and started chucking up bad shots, making bad passes, and panicking. All signs of a team that was making mental mistakes. I also suspect that this will improve and lessons will be learned from the experience. Many of the players have never been in a situation like this, against talent like this.

The game showed some problems that are easily correctable along with some reasons for optimism. It's a loss, but it's a loss to one of the top teams in the country on their home floor, and really the first true road game of the year for Xavier. No reason to panic.

[paulxu]

Over thinking this thing.
Pretty simple. You can't have twice as many TO's as assists, shoot 31% from the floor...and expect to beat a ranked team.
Not going to happen.

[PM Thor]

Over thinking this thing.
Pretty simple. You can't have twice as many TO's as assists, shoot 31% from the floor...and expect to beat a ranked team.
Not going to happen.

On the road, and have bigs go 1-9 from the line too.

I'm not overly upset. What I saw is coachable. It's not like we were athletically outclassed, we just lost because of ourselves. Learn and move forward.

[X-Fan]

Very frustrating game today. I echo the annoyance of the announcers not giving any useful play by play. I was surprised that the guys weren't able to attack the zone better. Only once did JP flash to the middle for a quick jumper. The big men were overwhelmed, but many times I felt BU got away with overly aggressive play that should have been called as fouls. Same goes for BUs constant body checks and reach ins. Not totally why X lost, but when you drive the lane, get hacked/turned over/can't get a call, it severely impacts the effectiveness on offense. That X had more FTs is besides the point. There were many no-calls.

All that said, X's offense is just not "right" right now. Hasn't been the whole season. Myles gone, Kaiser rusty, James/Jalen gone, no true PG, inexperienced big men. I'm confident they'll get it figured out. Lots of talent on this team, just need some pieces to fall into place.

[xu82]

A season is a lifetime.....

This was a good learning experience and will benefit us later.

[Blue Blooded-05]

On December 7th of last year, Villanova lost to Oklahoma 78-55 and then lost 86-75 at Virginia 12 days later. Two double digit losses in the pre-conference that did not derail their season.

[X Factor]

This was not a good situation for Bernard- he's a 6'3" slasher and wasn't effective going against a tall, athletic zone.

Bernard is every bit of 6'6. I don't think their zone had much to do with Bernard's poor game. He just didn't play very well. Missed some threes that he knocked down at the Cintas Center. Missed a couple in close too.

[Harryfe]

Bernard is every bit of 6'6. I don't think their zone had much to do with Bernard's poor game. He just didn't play very well. Missed some threes that he knocked down at the Cintas Center. Missed a couple in close too.

I don't think Bernard will get many minutes when MD returns

[Strange Brew]

On December 7th of last year, Villanova lost to Oklahoma 78-55 and then lost 86-75 at Virginia 12 days later. Two double digit losses in the pre-conference that did not derail their season.

Darn you and your voice of reason...

The bear bit the boys today but they don't have to like it.

LET'S GO X! Exterminate the Buff like it's the 19th century!

[Harryfe]

X has 3 very good players. (JP had a bad game today). Our others are very mediocre to poor. Perhaps with MD and rejuvenation of KG we can be final four capable. Outside of the big 3 the rest are hitting 50% from the line and they look horrible doing in. No form.

[nasdadjr]

Way too much to read but I'm only making one more point about this game. To those who think we still don't win without Myles. You may be right but I think we win with him. Does he provide the 15 pts difference??? Yes he does. However he doesn't do that by scoring 40 he does that by calming the offense down... by picking the right moments when to push and when to speed up...by being able to reel in a chucking JP when it just isn't his night...and most importantly by not turning the darn ball over. There was an 8 minute stretch in that game where we couldn't get out of our own way. He puts a stop to that. That is why Myles is missed..he is the leader... Sumner may have taken theatre classes and has the physical talent however he still can't lead a team when it needs that one guy the most. This was on full display Saturday

[American X]

Perhaps with MD and rejuvenation of KG we can be final four capable.

What the hell are a doctor and Kevin Garnett going to do for us?

[American X]

Colorado is another winnable game - we'll see how well their conditioning pays off at mile-high altitude.

I hear Jennings has them on the right training regimen:

http://statcdn.fandango.com/MPX/image/NBCU_Fandango/83/219/RockyIV_TrainingInRussia.jpg

[XfansinKy]

It's not the end of the world. What does Bernard do? I see him out there guarding players but he's not exactly The Glove. I would like to see big Tyrique Jones out there instead. At least until he gets in foul trouble. At this D1 level, which is as high as it gets, Bernard is a guy that's good to give guards a breather here n there for about 8-10 minutes a game. Get the man child in Tyrique developing.

[Caf]

Um...that's how we won the first 7.

I disagree. In the second half, Tre passed every chance he got, and the bigs never had a hope at scoring off the dribble.

[MauriceX]

This is my first chance to check the board since the game, and, while the end result was less than desirable, there is a lot more negativity than I was expecting!

Sure there were issues. FT shooting and turnovers are correctable though. We won't shoot 23% in many halves like we did in the 2nd of this one. We were winning at the half, and I think the first half team is a good showing of what we are capable of. ("Of that which we are capable" for you grammarians out there)

My takeaway is that we were able to stick with a Top 10 team on their home court for 30 minutes despite not playing very well. If we correct those mistakes though, look out! We are gonna be good.

[LA Muskie]

If you dont think our best (or 2nd best) 3 point shooter, our team leader, who avg 10 pts and 4 assists last year, and was great at driving to the bucket and maybe our best finisher at the rim (in a game where multiple bunnies were missed) would have helped us, we willl just have to agree to disagree.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I'm saying he likely would not have tilted the result in our favor.

Myles is a great spot-up shooter, but he doesn't create his own shot, he doesn't shoot over defenders, and he doesn't shoot contested shots particularly well. I doubt he would have been as ice cold as JP, but with the way they were able to contest the perimeter in the 2nd half (because we couldn't penetrate the zone and lacked a post presence) I suspect he would have struggled to make shots as well.


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[nasdadjr]

I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I'm saying he likely would not have tilted the result in our favor.

Myles is a great spot-up shooter, but he doesn't create his own shot, he doesn't shoot over defenders, and he doesn't shoot contested shots particularly well. I doubt he would have been as ice cold as JP, but with the way they were able to contest the perimeter in the 2nd half (because we couldn't penetrate the zone and lacked a post presence) I suspect he would have struggled to make shots as well.


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Once again it's not about his scoring... it's about his ability to run the team and keep its composure. Sumner can't do that he gets flustered and forces things. Myles runs the show limits turnovers and in turn limits transition points which killed us in the second half

[Juice]

I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I'm saying he likely would not have tilted the result in our favor.

Myles is a great spot-up shooter, but he doesn't create his own shot, he doesn't shoot over defenders, and he doesn't shoot contested shots particularly well. I doubt he would have been as ice cold as JP, but with the way they were able to contest the perimeter in the 2nd half (because we couldn't penetrate the zone and lacked a post presence) I suspect he would have struggled to make shots as well.


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You penetrate a zone by putting shooters, i.e. Myles, out there to stretch the zone and open it up for players like Edmond to attack it.

[Masterofreality]

My two cents.

We won the first half because Baylor gave us more opps to score outside through their zone. That was one reason why we had a rebounding advantage because it is hard to rebound out of a zone defense...which we have seen with our own team at times.

In the second half, Drew decided to man up closer and press our outside guys...basically challenging our bigs to beat them. Ours could not either because they couldn't finish or, more appropriately, MAKE A DAMN FREE THROW. Sean, Rashid and Bernard were absolutely horrific from the line and we left big points behind there....at a critical time in the game. Because our front line guys couldn't convert, they just kept pressing our outside guys- who got way fewer 2nd half looks that in half 1. If this is what we're going to get against quality front lines this year, we'll be in trouble. Luckily, not too many teams have the type of guy at the 4 & 5 like Baylor does.

The sky is not falling. I recall that we got smoked at Kansas State a few years ago then came back with that classic game against them in the Sweet 16 that same year. Stuff happens and lessons are learned, but I'm not sure yet that our bigs have enough stuff to act on those lessons. Jury is out.

[nasdadjr]

My two cents.

We won the first half because Baylor gave us more opps to score outside through their zone. That was one reason why we had a rebounding advantage because it is hard to rebound out of a zone defense...which we have seen with our own team at times.

In the second half, Drew decided to man up closer and press our outside guys...basically challenging our bigs to beat them. Ours could not either because they couldn't finish or, more appropriately, MAKE A DAMN FREE THROW. Sean, Rashid and Bernard were absolutely horrific from the line and we left big points behind there....at a critical time in the game. Because our front line guys couldn't convert, they just kept pressing our outside guys- who got way fewer 2nd half looks that in half 1. If this is what we're going to get against quality front lines this year, we'll be in trouble. Luckily, not too many teams have the type of guy at the 4 & 5 like Baylor does.

The sky is not falling. I recall that we got smoked at Kansas State a few years ago then came back with that classic game against them in the Sweet 16 that same year. Stuff happens and lessons are learned, but I'm not sure yet that our bigs have enough stuff to act on those lessons. Jury is out.

Couldn't agree more. If we are playing like this in Feb then there is room to worry. There is still way too much time for this team to evolve to worry now. If any fan base should know that a team changes throughout the course of the year it should be this fan base. He saw 10-9 to "The Run." We saw the Kstate rematch...we saw the Kenny Frease senior team that evolved to be able to beat Notre Dame in the tournament. Now is not the time to panic at least flaws were exposed to be fixed

[XUMIOH12]

i thought our bigs might get exposed in this game, and it happened in a pretty bad way. There is just no threat to score down low. The play of our bigs this year compared to what reynolds and farr provided last year is the difference between Xavier being a legit final four contender and "just" being a top 10-20 team. Still hoping to see improvement from our bigs throughout the season though. Plenty of time.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I'm saying he likely would not have tilted the result in our favor.

Myles is a great spot-up shooter, but he doesn't create his own shot, he doesn't shoot over defenders, and he doesn't shoot contested shots particularly well. I doubt he would have been as ice cold as JP, but with the way they were able to contest the perimeter in the 2nd half (because we couldn't penetrate the zone and lacked a post presence) I suspect he would have struggled to make shots as well.


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You said he wouldnt have made a difference today. That is what I said I disagree big time with, if you are clarifying your statement that is fine because I am also not saying we definitely win with Myles there but he does a lot of things in my opinion that would have specifically helped X win that game.

Myles may not create his own shot in the sense that Trevon does (meaning jump shot) but he is like our best driver and finisher at the rim (untile Ed starts to finish more consistently) that is certainly creating his own shot. He also, again, is the team leader (or at least was) who no doubt has the ability to be an on court coach and calm guys down. How many times last year did Myles hit a big shot in the lane to stop runs? A lot from what I can remember.

Obviously this is a moot point but just my thoughts on how Myles could have made a difference.

[Xville]

You penetrate a zone by putting shooters, i.e. Myles, out there to stretch the zone and open it up for players like Edmond to attack it.

Baylor did stretch the zone in the second half and Xavier couldn't exploit it because our front court isn't good enough right now. Myles might have helped a bit because he is a senior and a bit more composed than Sumner at this stage, but we weren't going to win that game even with Myles in my opinion.

[xufan2434]

i thought our bigs might get exposed in this game, and it happened in a pretty bad way. There is just no threat to score down low. The play of our bigs this year compared to what reynolds and farr provided last year is the difference between Xavier being a legit final four contender and "just" being a top 10-20 team. Still hoping to see improvement from our bigs throughout the season though. Plenty of time.

It's going to be interesting how the coaching staff is able to work with the bigs to help them finish better. That's really what was so frustrating. They were getting offensive boards and open dump offs. But the second someone came to challenge them or alter the shot, then they were screwed. Was so convenient that James/Jalen would pretty much be able to just dunk anything within 3 feet of the basket and didn't care who was in their way. Gaston especially cannot do that. Combine that with fumbling the ball in the post and not being able to grab it at times, I thought they were just flustered. Which is fine in early December, would rather have it now than later. My spin zone for them other than it's early would be that James was nowhere near the player he was last year during his first 3 and then look what he was able to do. This staff can help and develop big men. Trust em for now

[XU 87]

It's going to be interesting how the coaching staff is able to work with the bigs to help them finish better. That's really what was so frustrating. They were getting offensive boards and open dump offs. But the second someone came to challenge them or alter the shot, then they were screwed.


One problem as I see it- how do you get a guy like Gaston, in the middle of his 5th year season, to learn new ways to get his shot off, such as using the rim for protection?

[xufan2434]

One problem as I see it- how do you get a guy like Gaston, in the middle of his 5th year season, to learn new ways to get his shot off, such as using the rim for protection?

Haha, that I do not know. Was more me of just trying to be positive with it. Maybe because he hasn't played against this kind of competition before or been to exposed to that kind of defense he hasn't had to? Maybe now with the film on it they can point some things out and open his game up a little bit.

Although on the other hand, maybe not...

[Muskie]

Does anyone know of a site that keeps track of how many shots are made and missed from certain distances? My eyes tell me we are missing a bunch of bunnies, but I want to see if that's really the case.

[xu82]

One problem as I see it- how do you get a guy like Gaston, in the middle of his 5th year season, to learn new ways to get his shot off, such as using the rim for protection?

While I fully understand the benefits of technique and finesse around the rim, I wish his finish more often looked like he was trying to tear the rim down!

[xu82]

Does anyone know of a site that keeps track of how many shots are made and missed from certain distances? My eyes tell me we are missing a bunch of bunnies, but I want to see if that's really the case.

It certainly did seem that way. One reason for that is it also seemed that Gaston and Jones did a very good job grabbing offensive rebounds. There is hope! Now only if they could make it pay off...

[D-West & PO-Z]

Does anyone know of a site that keeps track of how many shots are made and missed from certain distances? My eyes tell me we are missing a bunch of bunnies, but I want to see if that's really the case.

Yeah that would be nice. The box score doesnt tell the full story either because there were a couple misses down low on fouls (but ticky tack ones that should have prevented the made bucket) that dont count as actual misses. I can recall at least 2 where our bigs got fouled going up after an offensive board and the foul really shouldnt have prevented the shot from going in.

[XU 87]

Haha, that I do not know. Was more me of just trying to be positive with it. Maybe because he hasn't played against this kind of competition before or been to exposed to that kind of defense he hasn't had to? Maybe now with the film on it they can point some things out and open his game up a little bit.

Although on the other hand, maybe not...

I agree with your initial post. I just think it's gong to be tough to get a fifth year senior in the middle of the season to learn some new skills on offense.

Gaston is tough on the offensive boards. He just needs to turn that into more points. We'll see.

[Muskie]

While I fully understand the benefits of technique and finesse around the rim, I wish his finish more often looked like he was trying to tear the rim down!

I was at the Indy Watch Party. Many of us wondered why Gaston could not have dunked some of those shots instead of going for a lay up.


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[MauriceX]

Does anyone know of a site that keeps track of how many shots are made and missed from certain distances? My eyes tell me we are missing a bunch of bunnies, but I want to see if that's really the case.

The closest thing I can think of it the shot chart that is in the ESPN box score. It gives a nice graphical display that yes, we missed a ton of inside shots.

Link (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400916160)

[paulxu]

Does anyone know of a site that keeps track of how many shots are made and missed from certain distances? My eyes tell me we are missing a bunch of bunnies, but I want to see if that's really the case.

Someplace (and I thought it was on ESPN) I remember seeing a floor chart, with dots of where shots were taken/made/missed.
Can not remember where, and can't find on ESPN. But I know it's out there somewhere.
Would also be interested in seeing it for the Baylor game.

[paulxu]

Hah! Thanks Maurice. I was typing while you were posting.

[Muskie]

The closest thing I can think of it the shot chart that is in the ESPN box score. It gives a nice graphical display that yes, we missed a ton of inside shots.

Link (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400916160) Thanks. I was hoping to compare a bunch of games. I suppose these might be found on ESPN.

[GoMuskies]

The closest thing I can think of it the shot chart that is in the ESPN box score. It gives a nice graphical display that yes, we missed a ton of inside shots.

Link (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400916160)

Yikes. Good thing it doesn't include FT misses. Our miss circles might have cracked Baylor's floor.

[paulxu]

The interesting thing about those charts is that you can click on/off the makes/misses to see just what you are doing.

What we did was make 9 shots beyond the arc...and miss 19 others.
We made 9 shots in the paint...and missed 19 others...and missed 2, count 'em 2...shots that weren't under the basket.
2 "mid-range" jumper were taken the whole game. Lost art...playing to the percentage game I guess.
Curiously, Baylor made a few of those.

Also, we actually were in the game until the half way point of the second half. Then the wheels came off, going about 9 minutes without a basket.

[Muskie]

The interesting thing about those charts is that you can click on/off the makes/misses to see just what you are doing.

What we did was make 9 shots beyond the arc...and miss 19 others.
We made 9 shots in the paint...and missed 19 others...and missed 2, count 'em 2...shots that weren't under the basket.
2 "mid-range" jumper were taken the whole game. Lost art...playing to the percentage game I guess.
Curiously, Baylor made a few of those.

Also, we actually were in the game until the half way point of the second half. Then the wheels came off, going about 9 minutes without a basket. I did a comparison of misses for all the Big's vs the Makes for all of Baylor's Big's. It's the difference in the game.

[LA Muskie]

You penetrate a zone by putting shooters, i.e. Myles, out there to stretch the zone and open it up for players like Edmond to attack it.
You realize Baylor doesn't play a typical pack-it-in zone, right? They weren't daring our shooters to shoot. They contested just about every perimeter shot in the 2nd half. Even Mack admitted in his post-game presser that he wishes he had more time to figure out their zone.

[LA Muskie]

You said he wouldnt have made a difference today. That is what I said I disagree big time with, if you are clarifying your statement that is fine because I am also not saying we definitely win with Myles there but he does a lot of things in my opinion that would have specifically helped X win that game.

Myles may not create his own shot in the sense that Trevon does (meaning jump shot) but he is like our best driver and finisher at the rim (untile Ed starts to finish more consistently) that is certainly creating his own shot. He also, again, is the team leader (or at least was) who no doubt has the ability to be an on court coach and calm guys down. How many times last year did Myles hit a big shot in the lane to stop runs? A lot from what I can remember.

Obviously this is a moot point but just my thoughts on how Myles could have made a difference.
By "make a difference" I meant change the outcome -- the only difference that matters. Myles is among my favorite all-time Muskies. I certainly would have loved to see him on the court, and I do believe he would have helped. I just don't think it would have been enough under the circumstances. I believe our 2nd half perimeter issues were a mere symptom of our deficiencies in the post, not the cause of the loss itself.

[LA Muskie]

I did a comparison of misses for all the Big's vs the Makes for all of Baylor's Big's. It's the difference in the game.
I neither did, nor have seen, your analysis. But I would have to agree.