Politics Thread

[Xuperman]

49% say trump should drop out of his campaign for President.

49% are 1000% right. Step back and endorse a Rubio/Gabbard ticket. Nightmare over.

[Strange Brew]

49% are 1000% right. Step back and endorse a Rubio/Gabbard ticket. Nightmare over.

Trump is up in the polls and getting support from former Dem donors. Why step down?

Heck, I’m reading Virginia may be in play (however unlikely).

[bjf123]

49% say trump should drop out of his campaign for President.

You could probably find a poll saying 49% think Biden should drop out. The country is royally screwed whoever wins.


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[xuphan]

You could probably find a poll saying 49% think Biden should drop out. The country is royally screwed whoever wins.


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Wonder what percent thinks Biden and Trump should BOTH drop out for the good of the country?

[Strange Brew]

Wonder what percent thinks Biden and Trump should BOTH drop out for the good of the country?

Haley, DeSantis or Hogan (for Ville :) ) vs. ?

[Xuperman]

Trump is up in the polls and getting support from former Dem donors. Why step down?

Heck, I’m reading Virginia may be in play (however unlikely).

Because Trump, the man, is a degenerate. The office of the Presidency of the United States is a GLOBAL INFLUENCE that is not providing traditional leadership with Biden.....a royally pissed off Trump won't change that.

[bjf123]

Wonder what percent thinks Biden and Trump should BOTH drop out for the good of the country?

Take out the hard line people from both parties and I’d say almost 100% of everyone else.


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[Xville]

Have the trump family be in charge of the RNC what could go wrong? ...Trump fam, your fascism is showing:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rnc-co-chair-says-larry-183720954.html

[xubrew]

Wonder what percent thinks Biden and Trump should BOTH drop out for the good of the country?

I would hope upwards of 90 percent. Which begs the question...is there a way to make that happen?

[paulxu]

Facts rather than histrionics:

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/debunking-myth-migrant-crime-wave

[bjf123]

Real wages are up more than inflation, but people have been convinced that the economy is bad.

On what planet are real wages up more than inflation? My utility bill is up about 70% from 3 years ago. Groceries are up more than 30%. Mortgage rates are way up, though they have dropped a little from the high. Other consumer categories are up similarly. Are you saying people have gotten raises the last few years more than the amount these things have gone up? I know I haven’t. Last year was a whopping zero increase throughout the company. Our industry struggled last year. I’m hoping for 3-4% this year. That still has me way behind compared to pre-Biden.


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[Xville]

On what planet are real wages up more than inflation? My utility bill is up about 70% from 3 years ago. Groceries are up more than 30%. Mortgage rates are way up, though they have dropped a little from the high. Other consumer categories are up similarly. Are you saying people have gotten raises the last few years more than the amount these things have gone up? I know I haven’t. Last year was a whopping zero increase throughout the company. Our industry struggled last year. I’m hoping for 3-4% this year. That still has me way behind compared to pre-Biden.


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Yep. This is where stats can lie, or tell a story that you want it to tell in Paul's case. Any person in the low to upper middle class with a brain, knows that they are paying more for every need or want in their life than they did two years ago. Yeah, maybe now those target and mcdonald's workers went from 10 or 14 dollars an hour to 20 now, but for the rest of America, wages have not kept up.

With all that said, I don't think who is President matters...whether it was Trump, Biden or some other jag off, inflation was going to happen due to 2020-2021, and most companies outside of the Targets/Mcdonalds of the world were going to struggle to keep up.

[xubrew]

The costs of goods is definitely up. My question is are the profits of those companies also up? And, is the REAL reasons the price of goods have gone up because of a failure on the part of our elected officials, or because the companies simply decided to increase their prices in order to increase their profits??

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Both seem very plausible.

[bobbiemcgee]

Locally, Kroger made 33B and Walmart 157b 7% increase.

[Xville]

The costs of goods is definitely up. My question is are the profits of those companies also up? And, is the REAL reasons the price of goods have gone up because of a failure on the part of our elected officials, or because the companies simply decided to increase their prices in order to increase their profits??

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Both seem very plausible.

I think in some cases, it's both. I think it most cases though, it depends on the industry. The health and insurance industry sure is doing alright for instance.....

[Strange Brew]

I think in some cases, it's both. I think it most cases though, it depends on the industry. The health and insurance industry sure is doing alright for instance.....

I don’t think companies are price gouging. COGS are up for any company that trades in US dollars.

[GoMuskies]

The costs of goods is definitely up. My question is are the profits of those companies also up? And, is the REAL reasons the price of goods have gone up because of a failure on the part of our elected officials, or because the companies simply decided to increase their prices in order to increase their profits??

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Both seem very plausible.

Yes, corporations only figured out 3 years ago that if they raise prices they can make more money. It's wild really.

[Xville]

I don’t think companies are price gouging. COGS are up for any company that trades in US dollars.

Can you honestly say with a straight face that for instance health insurance companies, hospitals, pharma etc are not price gouging?

[xubrew]

Yes, corporations only figured out 3 years ago that if they raise prices they can make more money. It's wild really.

Yeah, that's wild!!

Are their profits increasing at a rate that is proportionate to the increase of the cost of their goods? Or, are their profits not increasing at all and the price increases are related to something else?? Like...I don't know...the supply chain? Or trade regulations? Or anything else that might be the result of our elected officials and not the result of the companies simply deciding to increase prices?

I really don't know enough about this. Obviously.

Everyone is blaming our elected officials for the increase in the cost of goods, particularly Biden. Should they be?? That's my question. If there is a profit increase that is directly proportional to the price increases, then I would say there isn't much that any elected official could have done. How are they supposed to stop a company from increasing their prices simply because they know that doing so will make them more money?

[GoMuskies]

How are they supposed to stop a company from increasing their prices simply because they know that doing so will make them more money?

Totally, I'm just glad the corporations are so noble and didn't raise prices more! It's so easy, you know?

[Strange Brew]

Can you honestly say with a straight face that for instance health insurance companies, hospitals, pharma etc are not price gouging?

No. That’s a whole other animal however they are likely covering a larger risk pool than ever.

[Strange Brew]

Totally, I'm just glad the corporations are so noble and didn't raise prices more! It's so easy, you know?

Yeah, there’s no such thing as an equilibrium price point! :)

[xubrew]

Totally, I'm just glad the corporations are so noble and didn't raise prices more! It's so easy, you know?

I probably know less about national and global economics and the things that impact it than I do about the mating habits of starfish.

[GoMuskies]

I can't claim to know much about macroeconomics either. I'm sure my Xavier economics professor would be ashamed. But a corporation's job is (and has been for much longer than three years) to charge the amount for its products and services that will maximize profits. If there is an environment that allows corporations to raise their prices and increase profits, that's (initially at least) an effect of the macroeconomic environment and not the cause of it. Sure, those price/profits increases will have ripple effects, but corporate officers can't just wake up one day and decided to raise prices and boost profits. If they could, they should be fired, because they should have raised prices earlier.

[STL_XUfan]

Yes, corporations only figured out 3 years ago that if they raise prices they can make more money. It's wild really.

It isn't that they discovered it, it was that Covid gave them an excuse to jack the prices up at the same time as their competitors without it looking like price fixing. Now companies are slow to reduce their prices as people have got used to paying the higher prices and they are seeing more profit from it.

[GoMuskies]

If a corporation's leadership team suggested a pricing strategy that was expected to reduce their profits, that leadership team should be fired.

[Strange Brew]

It isn't that they discovered it, it was that Covid gave them an excuse to jack the prices up at the same time as their competitors without it looking like price fixing. Now companies are slow to reduce their prices as people have got used to paying the higher prices and they are seeing more profit from it.

Not sure there’s evidence to back that up.

It is however hard to ignore the effect the record levels of inflation the last 2 years have had on prices. In fact, it’s lazy to blame Corporations for being “all corporationy”.

[Xville]

If a corporation's leadership team suggested a pricing strategy that was expected to reduce their profits, that leadership team should be fired.

Just because you lower prices doesn’t mean you lower profits.

[Strange Brew]

Just because you lower prices doesn’t mean you lower profits.

Volume/growth strategy.

However I’d imagine most companies have switch to an EBITA model considering the current borrowing rates.

[GoMuskies]

Just because you lower prices doesn’t mean you lower profits.

If you find where I said it did, I'll go back and correct myself.

[Xville]

If you find where I said it did, I'll go back and correct myself.

that's my bad. i read your response wrong.

[Xville]

Not sure there’s evidence to back that up.

It is however hard to ignore the effect the record levels of inflation the last 2 years have had on prices. In fact, it’s lazy to blame Corporations for being “all corporationy”.

I mean there is evidence if you look at certain industries...again anything health related etc.

However, let's just say there wasn't any evidence and look at it from a common-sense perspective. Any of us think that leaders at corporations are just full of really good people that wouldn't take advantage of certain market conditions to increase profits and their own wallets?

[GoMuskies]

Any of us think that leaders at corporations are just full of really good people that wouldn't take advantage of certain market conditions to increase profits and their own wallets?

100% they would (and should!). But those same people (or types of people) were in corporate offices for all the years of low inflation that preceded the more recent rise. They took advantage of a situation, sure. They didn't cause it, though, or they would have done it sooner.

[xubrew]

Is it fair to blame Joe Biden for the rise in the cost of goods?? I know the cost of goods have gone up while he has been in office. That doesn't necessarily mean it had anything to do with him. I'm not saying it did or didn't. I'm saying I really don't know.

When W was in office, Xavier made it to the Elite Eight twice. But, that doesn't mean it had anything to do with W.

[GoMuskies]

Fair or foul, the sitting President always gets blamed for the economic conditions during his Presidency.

[Xville]

Is it fair to blame Joe Biden for the rise in the cost of goods?? I know the cost of goods have gone up while he has been in office. That doesn't necessarily mean it had anything to do with him. I'm not saying it did or didn't. I'm saying I really don't know.

When W was in office, Xavier made it to the Elite Eight twice. But, that doesn't mean it had anything to do with W.

Well, he and Trump decided to help pass a lot of bills that required a whole lot of printing of money, which helped cause a tight labor market, that enhanced the supply chain issues and so on and so forth. So yeah, both politicians were contributing factors to the inflation we are still experiencing today.

[Strange Brew]

Well, he and Trump decided to help pass a lot of bills that required a whole lot of printing of money. So yeah, both politicians were contributing factors to the inflation we are still experiencing today.

It was 1.9% after Trump left office. After nearly a year of the pandemic. The blame is not equal here.

[Xville]

It was 1.9% after Trump left office. After nearly a year of the pandemic. The blame is not equal here.

Not like someone makes a decision and then poof! immediate record high inflation...it takes a bit. Both of them helped to pass legislation that in my mind wasn't needed. Whether someone deserves more blame over the other is irrelevant. They both contributed.

[bobbiemcgee]

It was 1.9% after Trump left office. After nearly a year of the pandemic. The blame is not equal here.

Not surprising since everyone was home.

[xubrew]

It was 1.9% after Trump left office. After nearly a year of the pandemic. The blame is not equal here.


Not like someone makes a decision and then poof! immediate record high inflation...it takes a bit. Both of them helped to pass legislation that in my mind wasn't needed. Whether someone deserves more blame over the other is irrelevant. They both contributed.

What was it that was within Trump’s or Biden’s countrol that they either did, or should have done but didn’t, that caused the price of goods to increase like they have??

You’ll have to explain it to me like I’m a first grader because I don’t understand how this all works. But if you can explain how they are responsible, it very well could influence how I vote.

Thank you.

[Xville]

What was it that was within Trump’s or Biden’s countrol that they either did, or should have done but didn’t, that caused the price of goods to increase like they have??

You’ll have to explain it to me like I’m a first grader because I don’t understand how this all works. But if you can explain how they are responsible, it very well could influence how I vote.

Thank you.

They were both very influential in passing legislation like the Cares act (among other Covid related bills) that added about 5 trillion to the deficit. Where did that money come from? Printing it! So now there’s more money in our system (devaluing the dollar) and people were given money they didn’t need as well as some businesses that didn’t need it. This caused many people to not even work since they were getting free money anyway, which caused an already tight labor market to get even tighter, which put a bigger strain on the supply chain.

People were now at home, with all this money, but no where to really go because as you remember things were even closed or severely limited, so they bought a bunch of stuff or renovated their house further straining the supply chain.

I’m rambling but if you think about it in basic economic terms.. low supply, high demand—-prices go up… and it can all be traced to legislation that was passed stupidly.

[Strange Brew]

They were both very influential in passing legislation like the Cares act (among other Covid related bills) that added about 5 trillion to the deficit. Where did that money come from? Printing it! So now there’s more money in our system (devaluing the dollar) and people were given money they didn’t need as well as some businesses that didn’t need it. This caused many people to not even work since they were getting free money anyway, which caused an already tight labor market to get even tighter, which put a bigger strain on the supply chain.

People were now at home, with all this money, but no where to really go because as you remember things were even closed or severely limited, so they bought a bunch of stuff or renovated their house further straining the supply chain.

I’m rambling but if you think about it in basic economic terms.. low supply, high demand—-prices go up… and it can all be traced to legislation that was passed stupidly.

You got deficit spending right. Add on the infrastructure bills and the budget (continuing resolutions) since the Obama years (And maybe Bush. I’d have to check) have caused the Fed (not part of the Gov’t by the way) to print or create trillions of new dollars. More dollars equals less purchasing power in your pocket.

The dollar you have right now buys 30-40% less value than 5 years ago because of this. There is no other driver of inflation. Prices in the private sector are driven by supply/demand. Price fixing within the same/similar industry is illegal.

The Federal Gov’t through the Federal Reserve is the only entity that can create money/value from nothing. It has been the case since the Wilson Admin and was made worse when we went off the gold standard under Nixon.


Also GDP formula: GDP=C+I+G+NX. The G has exploded which is mainly why we haven’t seen a recession in normal terms. However, we have been in a private sector recession since Q422/Q123. That said, G driven growth through deficit spending leads to high interest rates which adversely affects the other variables. We could also talk about the Petro-dollar and BRICS+ however this post is depressing enough as it is. :)

Edit: For the record Trump threatened to veto Dem spending bills which would’ve shut down the Gov’t which really isn’t a big deal at all. The media and some on this board went nuts however.

[X-band '01]

Have the trump family be in charge of the RNC what could go wrong? ...Trump fam, your fascism is showing:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rnc-co-chair-says-larry-183720954.html

Lara Trump would be committing political malpractice if the RNC decided not to donate to the Hogan campaign, although I'm pretty sure it's just talk and trying to intimidate him to fall in line. Why would you not put money in a very winnable race? Democrats never envisioned Maryland as a competitive race, and it's expensive to campaign in Baltimore/DC suburbs. Dollars spent in Maryland cannot be spent in places like Ohio, Nevada and Montana where they have to defend Senate seats this cycle. (Opportunity cost for all of you Economics students)

[Strange Brew]

I probably know less about national and global economics and the things that impact it than I do about the mating habits of starfish.

The mating habits of starfish would be way more fun to study/read about. ;)

[Strange Brew]

“Science” had a rough day on Cap Hill…:)

Come on Lou. If there ever was a time for a bat flipping walk-off, it’s now. :)

[bobbiemcgee]

Diidn:t Fauci deny everything?

[Strange Brew]

Diidn:t Fauci deny everything?

But he’s “Science”….. haha.

[bobbiemcgee]

Does anyone besides you care anymore ?

[Strange Brew]

Does anyone besides you care anymore ?

I hope so Bobbie.

I sincerely hope so as a (Catholic) Christian and a man. No matter what, I hope I’ve left things better off than I found it. :)

[murray87]

I care deeply about getting to the bottom of all the lies told by Fauci and his minions. Millions/billions of lives needlessly turned upside down, phony guidance for how to live and work dictated in the name of "science" and then coercing millions/billions into taking a shot of unknown safety and effectiveness. Denying responsibility and hiding behind "to the best of my knowledge" isn't going to fly.

[GoMuskies]

Can someone explain to me like I'm a toddler how electing Donald Trump in a free and fair election will "destroy democracy"?

[xuwillie]

I care deeply about getting to the bottom of all the lies told by Fauci and his minions. Millions/billions of lives needlessly turned upside down, phony guidance for how to live and work dictated in the name of "science" and then coercing millions/billions into taking a shot of unknown safety and effectiveness. Denying responsibility and hiding behind "to the best of my knowledge" isn't going to fly.

And young healthy people are still wearing masks today. “Science “ took a huge hit yesterday but of course all the dems still tried to glorify his work. Amazing

[xubrew]

Can someone explain to me like I'm a toddler how electing Donald Trump in a free and fair election will "destroy democracy"?

Electing him in a free and fair election wouldn't.

But AFTER he's elected, would HE destroy it? Is he such a narcissist that he'd put his own self interests above everything else and try to defy the checks and balances that our democracy depends on? I don't think our democracy would be destroyed if he wins, but I also don't think it's completely unreasonable to be concerned. J6 kind of flew completely in the face of what we know our Democracy to be.

And, it's also fair to ask if our democracy is currently working the way that it should be. If we live in a democracy, and the vast majority of the people don't want an election between Trump and Biden (which it seems pretty clear that they don't), then why did we end up with an election between Trump and Biden?

[GoMuskies]

How would he destroy it after being elected? That's why we have checks and balances. So no one can destroy it.

[xubrew]

How would he destroy it after being elected? That's why we have checks and balances. So no one can destroy it.

Good question! The concern is that he would try and bypass/ignore the checks and balances if they ever kept him from doing what he wanted to do. Would he succeed? I'm guessing not. But, I understand the concern, especially after how he responded to the last free and fair election we had.

[GoMuskies]

By losing, throwing a temper tantrum, having all the checks and balances work perfectly, and walking out of office on Inauguration Day?

[bobbiemcgee]

He has stated many times it won:t be a fair election if he loses. He has promised to be a Dictator and will suspend the constitution.

[Xville]

By losing, throwing a temper tantrum, having all the checks and balances work perfectly, and walking out of office on Inauguration Day?

Just throwing a temper tantrum? I mean Jan 6th was kind of a big deal, what if there was four years of that? I'm not interested in four more years of retribution politics---and that could certainly equate to the possibility of acting more like a dictator than a President.

[STL_XUfan]

How would he destroy it after being elected? That's why we have checks and balances. So no one can destroy it.
I think the issue with checks and balances is that there has to be buy in from all of the branches.

There is the probably apocryphal statement from Andrew Jackson on the Supreme Court "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." If he just openly ignores the checks and balances, who is going to enforce them against him? His first term felt like the velociraptors testing the fence. He will not make the mistake again of having anyone in the DOJ or in other high ranking positions that will honor and uphold the constitution over their fidelity to Trump.

[xubrew]

By losing, throwing a temper tantrum, having all the checks and balances work perfectly DESPITE HIM TRYING TO OVERTHROW THE ELECTION RESULTS, and walking out of office on Inauguration Day?

The bolden part that I added is the concern. If he tries to run over the checks and balances again, will he succeed and will he damage our democracy in the process?? Perhaps not. The checks and balances held firm the last time. But, I can at least understand why people would be concerned.

[xubrew]

He has stated many times it won:t be a fair election if he loses. He has promised to be a Dictator and will suspend the constitution.

Okay, when did he actually say this?? I missed when he said he would be a dictator and suspend the Constitution. I don't doubt that he'd LIKE to do that, but I don't think he's actually ever stated it that pointedly.

[GoMuskies]

Just throwing a temper tantrum? I mean Jan 6th was kind of a big deal, what if there was four years of that? I'm not interested in four more years of retribution politics---and that could certainly equate to the possibility of acting more like a dictator than a President.

I'm not particularly interested in it, either, but I'm not particularly interested in four more years of whatever Joe Biden and the gang have to offer either. I just haven't seen a remotely compelling argument for electing Trump being the end of democracy (or our republican form of government). I've seen a lot of fear porn and people repeating the line over and over.

[bobbiemcgee]

HA he's already been convicted in the porn case.

[xubrew]

The fringe on one side believes men can get pregnant and that a terrorist organization that Amnesty International has called out for its flagrant violations of international law deserves our support and protests in favor of them.

The fringe on the other side believes that any election they lose is not free and fair and that any books they decide they don't like should be banned.

The one thing that both sides have in common is an opposition to free speech. They want to cancel anyone/anything they don't like hearing.

GOOD JOB AMERICA!!

[GoMuskies]

What is apparently NOT a threat to democracy is Michigan and Colorado Democrats attempting to prevent the leading candidate in the Presidential election from being on the ballot (but it probably IS a threat to democracy when Republicans threaten to enforce a dumb rule to keep Biden off the ballot in Ohio).

[GoMuskies]

The fringe on the other side believes that any election they lose is not free and fair and that any books they decide they don't like should be banned.


I believe you'll find that BOTH sides have made plenty of claims that elections they've lost were not free and fair (see, eg. Gore, Al; Clinton, Hillary; Abrams, Stacey for a few examples on the "other" side) and have attempted to censor books/ideas they don't like (see the reaction to Abigail Shrier for an example).

[bobbiemcgee]

I believe you'll find that BOTH sides have made plenty of claims that elections they've lost were not free and fair (see, eg. Gore, Al; Clinton, Hillary; Abrams, Stacey for a few examples on the "other" side) and have attempted to censor books/ideas they don't like (see the reaction to Abigail Shrier for an example).

Difference being they all conceded. Still waiting for Trump to make the call

[paulxu]

Don’t hold your breath.
And what about Washington State? Apparently convicted felons can’t be on the ballot.

[Strange Brew]

I think the issue with checks and balances is that there has to be buy in from all of the branches.

There is the probably apocryphal statement from Andrew Jackson on the Supreme Court "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." If he just openly ignores the checks and balances, who is going to enforce them against him? His first term felt like the velociraptors testing the fence. He will not make the mistake again of having anyone in the DOJ or in other high ranking positions that will honor and uphold the constitution over their fidelity to Trump.

Haha, sounds like Joe on the student loan bailout or Obama executing an American citizen without trial.

The Left loves dictators.

[STL_XUfan]

Haha, sounds like Joe on the student loan bailout or Obama executing an American citizen without trial.

The Left loves dictators.
I don’t remember Biden overruling the Supreme Court and forgiving my students loans.

[Strange Brew]

I don’t remember Biden overruling the Supreme Court and forgiving my students loans.

The Court ruled he couldn’t and he recently did it. Probably because it would have saved his Uncle from cannibals..:)

Edit: No comment on the Obama drone strike?

[STL_XUfan]

The Court ruled he couldn’t and he recently did it. Probably because it would have saved his Uncle from cannibals..:)

Edit: No comment on the Obama drone strike?

That is not what happened. They ruled he couldn’t do it under a specific law, so they have used other laws to forgive the loans you have seen in the news. Nothing he has done has been in contradiction to the Supreme Court’s ruling.

As far as why I didn’t comment on Obama, it is because I don’t know shit about the rules of engagement. I do know something about the Supreme Court so I choose to call out your bullshit on the subject when it appears.

[bobbiemcgee]

Edit: No comment on the Obama drone strike?

63 soldier suckers"died under trump

[Strange Brew]

That is not what happened. They ruled he couldn’t do it under a specific law, so they have used other laws to forgive the loans you have seen in the news. Nothing he has done has been in contradiction to the Supreme Court’s ruling.

As far as why I didn’t comment on Obama, it is because I don’t know shit about the rules of engagement. I do know something about the Supreme Court so I choose to call out your bullshit on the subject when it appears.

Bullshit. The Court said no and Biden did it anyway.

Yes. Obama killed an American Citizen (not a good dude btw) on foreign soil without trial. You can hide behind your garbage all you want. Please stop talking about dictators and Justice.


I’d have more respect for you if you’d just admit it.

Edit: How do you feel about Biden’s EO? Is there going to be a bouncer at the border with a “clicker”.


Absolute clown show.

[Strange Brew]

63 soldier suckers"died under trump

How many died needlessly during the incompetent Afghan pullout?

How many Americans are still held hostage in Hamas?

Clown show.

Edit: Hunter’s laptop is in evidence in DE. Weird, because we were told it was Russian disinfo.

Clown show.

Edit: only 63 KIA under Trump? That has to be a record low over the past 70 years.

[STL_XUfan]

Bullshit. The Court said no and Biden did it anyway.

I mean that isn’t what happened or what they said. From the syllabus of the court “The text of the HEROES Act does not authorize the Secretary’s loan forgiveness program. The Secretary’s power under the Act to “modify” does not permit “basic and fundamental changes in the scheme” designed by Congress. MCI Telecommunications Corp. v. American Telephone & Telegraph Co., 512 U. S. 218, 225. Instead, “modify” carries “a connotation of increment or limitation,” and must be read to mean “to change moderately or in minor fashion.” Ibid. That is how the word is ordinarily used and defined, and the legal def- inition is no different.”

Ruling concerned the right to forgive loans under the HEROS act. Didn’t say that the federal government could not forgive loans under other programs such as the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Act, which is a lot of the forgiveness you have seen in the media.

You can read the opinion here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf

[Strange Brew]

I mean that isn’t what happened or what they said. From the syllabus of the court “The text of the HEROES Act does not authorize the Secretary’s loan forgiveness program. The Secretary’s power under the Act to “modify” does not permit “basic and fundamental changes in the scheme” designed by Congress. MCI Telecommunications Corp. v. American Telephone & Telegraph Co., 512 U. S. 218, 225. Instead, “modify” carries “a connotation of increment or limitation,” and must be read to mean “to change moderately or in minor fashion.” Ibid. That is how the word is ordinarily used and defined, and the legal def- inition is no different.”

Ruling concerned the right to forgive loans under the HEROS act. Didn’t say that the federal government could not forgive loans under other programs such as the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Act, which is a lot of the forgiveness you have seen in the media.

You can read the opinion here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf

Yeah, cute. The Court said no and your dear leader did it anyway.

I’ll pivot. Do you believe the average taxpayer should be on the hook for someone’s else’s loan?

Who is your preferred dictator? Mao, Stalin (the American Left loved that guy), or Che?


Edit: Did you mean synopsis rather than a syllabus?….

[paulxu]

I’ll pivot. Do you believe the average taxpayer should be on the hook for someone’s else’s loan?

Were you this upset about the $700+billion of the paycheck loans that were forgiven? Including the ones that went to members of Congress?

Or is it a Biden hangup?

[bjf123]

Were you this upset about the $700+billion of the paycheck loans that were forgiven? Including the ones that went to members of Congress?

Or is it a Biden hangup?

Wasn’t the PPP loan forgiveness part of the legislation passed by Congress, the group that controls the purse strings? Congress didn’t authorize any forgiveness of student loan debt. Big difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

The point was "should the average taxpayer be on the hook for someone else's loan."

Both actions accomplished that. Congress and the president.

[paulxu]

Let's help the Russians undermine NATO.

Jared Kushner’s investment fund made its first big splash last month when it announced it had signed a $500 million deal with the Serbian government to develop a high end real estate project

a pledge by Kushner’s firm, Affinity Partners, to construct a “memorial dedicated to all the victims of NATO aggression


Gen. Wesley Clark, who served as NATO Supreme Allied Commander during the war.

While he has no objection to a U.S. firm investing in Serbia, the planned revisionist memorial—officially proclaiming America’s adversary in the war to have been a victim of “aggression”— “is worse than a reversal” of U.S. policies in the region, said Clark in an interview with SpyTalk. “It’s a betrayal of the United States, its policies and the brave diplomats and airmen who did what they could to stop Serb ethnic cleansing.”

https://www.spytalk.co/p/kushners-deal-with-pro-russia-serbs?triedRedirect=true

[STL_XUfan]

I’ll pivot. Do you believe the average taxpayer should be on the hook for someone’s else’s loan?

Edit: Did you mean synopsis rather than a syllabus?….

As to your edit, no. The syllabus is a summary at the top of every supreme court decision that is not part of the actual opinion but summarizes the holdings. If you clicked on the link you would see that it is the first 5 pages prior to the opinion starting on page 6.

The average tax payer is on the hook for all sorts of things they may or may not agree with or personally qualify for. Subsidies, tax breaks, stimulus, preferential loan terms, etc. are given out all of the time. The hope is that it will have a net benefit.

If providing some loan relief increases the financial stability of a younger portion of our population and makes them more confident to purchase a home, get married, or start a family, then I think the trade off could be a net positive.

[Xville]

As to your edit, no. The syllabus is a summary at the top of every supreme court decision that is not part of the actual opinion but summarizes the holdings. If you clicked on the link you would see that it is the first 5 pages prior to the opinion starting on page 6.

The average tax payer is on the hook for all sorts of things they may or may not agree with or personally qualify for. Subsidies, tax breaks, stimulus, preferential loan terms, etc. are given out all of the time. The hope is that it will have a net benefit.

If providing some loan relief increases the financial stability of a younger portion of our population and makes them more confident to purchase a home, get married, or start a family, then I think the trade off could be a net positive.

I'd rather have us as a country fix the problem, rather than put a band-aid on it. When the government put band-aids on things, it generally causes more problems rather than fix the issue.

So, what's the actual problem? 1.) "Higher Education" is way too damn expensive. 2.) There are a lot of people that don't need to go to college that do because it's just what they have been told. We need to "educate" people that there are other avenues. 3.) Loan companies are predatory.

[xubrew]

I'd rather have us as a country fix the problem, rather than put a band-aid on it. When the government put band-aids on things, it generally causes more problems rather than fix the issue.

So, what's the actual problem? 1.) "Higher Education" is way too damn expensive. 2.) There are a lot of people that don't need to go to college that do because it's just what they have been told. We need to "educate" people that there are other avenues. 3.) Loan companies are predatory.

When was the last time we really fixed anything??

[Xuperman]

Facts rather than histrionics:

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/debunking-myth-migrant-crime-wave

Posting something like this says a lot about how the Progressive Left views this disaster....foolishly whistling past the grave yard.

Where is the reference to law enforcement policy in sanctuary cities that prohibit even questioning a suspect's immigration status? Where is the statistical info on social justice policies in these cities, that have drastically reduced police engagement and crimes that are prosecuted?

Because here are the people responsible for this Leftist spin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brennan_Center_for_Justice

We are talking about an estimated 10 million loosely documented illegals. A very high percentage of that number, unattached military aged males. Even if just 1% of the 10 mil, have, will or intend to commit crime is just a devastating reality. "Google" New York mayor Adams and educate yourself. Better yet, go to Merit Street Media. Watch the recent 2 part deep dive into this out of control crime in NY by these illegals. It features officials at the very top and on the frontline in the city.

You have to take the blinders off and educate yourself on how the cartels and organized gang activity has big numbers among these illegals. Otherwise, stop posting things that are nothing but leftist deflection.

[Smails]

So, what's the actual problem? 1.) "Higher Education" is way too damn expensive. 2.) There are a lot of people that don't need to go to college that do because it's just what they have been told. We need to "educate" people that there are other avenues. 3.) Loan companies are predatory.

I'll add- What does Biden's forgiveness plan teach this generation about financial accountability?

I think any loan 'relief' is completely offset by instilling a 'government will bail me out' mentality for thousands and thousands of people. These adults and their parents entered into a covenant with financial institutions and instead of honoring their commitment, POTUS sweeps in and bails them out. Anyone who doesn't think this is anything other than a massive voter registration drive has their head purposefully in the sand.

Also- why is providing financial stability only important for people in college? Where's the relief for trade workers? How about throwing in some cash for those who opt to go into the military? How about those students who don't take loans but work full time and go to night school? All of those people could also use some relief to help purchase a home, start a family... Mike the welder busts his ass in a 5 year apprenticeship and gets zilch. However, Ethan the Art History Major at Oberlin gets loan forgiveness? PLEASE make it make sense

[Xville]

Posting something like this says a lot about how the Progressive Left views this disaster....foolishly whistling past the grave yard.

Where is the reference to law enforcement policy in sanctuary cities that prohibit even questioning a suspect's immigration status? Where is the statistical info on social justice policies in these cities, that have drastically reduced police engagement and crimes that are prosecuted?

Because here are the people responsible for this Leftist spin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brennan_Center_for_Justice

We are talking about an estimated 10 million loosely documented illegals. A very high percentage of that number, unattached military aged males. Even if just 1% of the 10 mil, have, will or intend to commit crime is just a devastating reality. "Google" New York mayor Adams and educate yourself. Better yet, go to Merit Street Media. Watch the recent 2 part deep dive into this out of control crime in NY by these illegals. It features officials at the very top and on the frontline in the city.

You have to take the blinders off and educate yourself on how the cartels and organized gang activity has big numbers among these illegals. Otherwise, stop posting things that are nothing but leftist deflection.

While I agree regarding spin, attacking where Paul's information comes from and in the same breath, championing a Dr. Phil media company, is ironic.

[Xville]

I'll add- What does Biden's forgiveness plan teach this generation about financial accountability?

I think any loan 'relief' is completely offset by instilling a 'government will bail me out' mentality for thousands and thousands of people. These adults and their parents entered into a covenant with financial institutions and instead of honoring their commitment, POTUS sweeps in and bails them out. Anyone who doesn't think this is anything other than a massive voter registration drive has their head purposefully in the sand.

Also- why is providing financial stability only important for people in college? Where's the relief for trade workers? How about throwing in some cash for those who opt to go into the military? How about those students who don't take loans but work full time and go to night school? All of those people could also use some relief to help purchase a home, start a family... Mike the welder busts his ass in a 5 year apprenticeship and gets zilch. However, Ethan the Art History Major at Oberlin gets loan forgiveness? PLEASE make it make sense

I agree with most of this. How anyone in general can think "loan forgiveness" by the government is a good thing is beyond me.

We need to fix the actual problems, instead of digging a deeper grave.

[STL_XUfan]

Also- why is providing financial stability only important for people in college? Where's the relief for trade workers? How about throwing in some cash for those who opt to go into the military? How about those students who don't take loans but work full time and go to night school? All of those people could also use some relief to help purchase a home, start a family... Mike the welder busts his ass in a 5 year apprenticeship and gets zilch. However, Ethan the Art History Major at Oberlin gets loan forgiveness? PLEASE make it make sense

I believe Military still gets free college education under the GI Bill, right?

I believe students going to night school still qualify for student loans and would be protected under the new policies concerning only having to pay back a portion of the disposable income.

Mike the Welder would be eligible for other type of grants, such as an SBA loan to help fund his business venture that would be too risky for other banks to touch (not to mention it would be eligible for a discharge in bankruptcy if Mike's business fails, unlike student loans).

They would all be eligible for things such FHA loans to assist in buying their first home.

The student loan issue is a unique issue in that the standard solution to individuals that make a bad business decision, bankruptcy, is not available to the borrowers. So instead the problem will keep snowballing as they fall further and further behind debt.

[Smails]

I believe Military still gets free college education under the GI Bill, right?

I believe students going to night school still qualify for student loans and would be protected under the new policies concerning only having to pay back a portion of the disposable income.

Mike the Welder would be eligible for other type of grants, such as an SBA loan to help fund his business venture that would be too risky for other banks to touch (not to mention it would be eligible for a discharge in bankruptcy if Mike's business fails, unlike student loans).

They would all be eligible for things such FHA loans to assist in buying their first home.

The student loan issue is a unique issue in that the standard solution to individuals that make a bad business decision, bankruptcy, is not available to the borrowers. So instead the problem will keep snowballing as they fall further and further behind debt.

Okay, you missed my point.. which was in response to that it was a 'net positive' to forgive student loans in the name of providing financial stability.

I'm not advocating for servicemen to go to college after their active duty obligation is complete. Nor am I advocating for night school students to borrow money.

To your other point yes, students and their co-signers can absolutely file for personal bankruptcy if they meet the criteria. That protection does exist, but it's a damn near permanent stain on their credit history (ie a tough lesson to learn). The borrower would have to file an adversary proceeding to have their loans discharged via bankruptcy. To avoid that, the govt can just sweep in and just forgive the loans with no lessons learned and zero accountability. What a terrible message IMO. If your student loan is in good standing when it's forgiven, there is a minimal impact on your credit score (averages about a 3-5 point drop). There is no equivalence to this loan forgiveness and business or personal bankruptcy protection.

The majority of the borrowers receiving forgiveness are in good standing and not in default. Many that are in default are there because they simply stopped paying once they heard POTUS tell the world that he's forgiving loans.

In today's world I think college, specifically private institutions are overpriced and don't provide the benefit they once did. But people have to weigh the financial burden with the potential long-term rewards and make good decisions. There has to be some consequence for taking money you can't afford to pay back.

[xubrew]

I don't know the specifics of the loan forgiveness. I saw it explained in a way that said it was not preventing the borrowers from having to pay back what they borrowed, but it prevented them from having to pay back two and three times what they borrowed due to inflated interest rates from predatory lenders. Is that not correct? I take it that it's not given some of the replies in this thread.

[Xuperman]

While I agree regarding spin, attacking where Paul's information comes from and in the same breath, championing a Dr. Phil media company, is ironic.

Well, just invest 10 minutes here and you will instantly become accurately informed. This is not political. It's not opinion. It's a detailed INTERVIEW with the NYPD CHIEF OF PATROL. The guy in charge of all of the "beat" cops in the entire city. Found it on YouTube for your convenience.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6vizm-hhOGE

Kinda blows a hole in your Leftist narrative that tries to "sugar coat" the chaos created by these O'Biden illegals. You guys need to get real and acknowledge the severity of the problem......my guess is that you just start avoiding the reality altogether. That's what the DEM propaganda agents in the MSM do constantly.

[Xville]

Well, just invest 10 minutes here and you will instantly become accurately informed. This is not political. It's not opinion. It's a detailed INTERVIEW with the NYPD CHIEF OF PATROL. The guy in charge of all of the "beat" cops in the entire city. Found it on YouTube for your convenience.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6vizm-hhOGE

Kinda blows a hole in your Leftist narrative that tries to "sugar coat" the chaos created by these O'Biden illegals. You guys need to get real and acknowledge the severity of the problem......my guess is that you just start avoiding the reality altogether. That's what the DEM propaganda agents in the MSM do constantly.

oh you mean this guy?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/john-chell-nypd-chief-who-killed-ortanzso-bovell-helps-oversee-cops-probing-murder-of-his-brother-orenzso

https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/04/15/nypd-accidental-killers-rise-to-brooklyn-chief-questioned/

Yeah forgive me if I don't believe that dude, or Dr. Phil Medicine Woman. Cops lie man...all the time. I've seen it firsthand. No different than anyone else.

You Post "facts" like 10 million, which isn't true....10 million encounters, yes but maybe since you like to say "educate yourself" so much...go ahead and heed your own advice and figure out what that means.

Here's most likely the reality of the situation--- the middle of your extreme, and Paul's...just like most things.

[bjf123]

The point was "should the average taxpayer be on the hook for someone else's loan."

Both actions accomplished that. Congress and the president.

No. The point is Congress is allowed to do that. The President is not. Whether Congress should have done that is a completely different question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smails]

I don't know the specifics of the loan forgiveness. I saw it explained in a way that said it was not preventing the borrowers from having to pay back what they borrowed, but it prevented them from having to pay back two and three times what they borrowed due to inflated interest rates from predatory lenders. Is that not correct? I take it that it's not given some of the replies in this thread.

You're partially right on the first part in that a lot of the forgiveness is tied to long-term pay back schedules (20-25 years) which set up lower monthly payments for affordability but hammers the borrower in the total payoff.

I agree it's not a great practice but the borrowers receive full disclosure of what they are signing up for and they sign up anyway.

[paulxu]

No. The point is Congress is allowed to do that. The President is not. Whether Congress should have done that is a completely different question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This was the question I was addressing from another poster:

Do you believe the average taxpayer should be on the hook for someone’s else’s loan?
I pointed out there were other places the average taxpayer was on the hook for someone else's loan besides the student loans.

You decided to make it a question about Congress and the President, not me,

[xubrew]

You're partially right on the first part in that a lot of the forgiveness is tied to long-term pay back schedules (20-25 years) which set up lower monthly payments for affordability but hammers the borrower in the total payoff.

I agree it's not a great practice but the borrowers receive full disclosure of what they are signing up for and they sign up anyway.

I agree with this. Here is my question...

Is the excess debt that's built up through high interest rates cancelled altogether, or is it passed along to the taxpayers and the lenders are still paid off in full?

If it's the latter, then I understand why everyone is pissed. They should be! It's not their debt! If it's the former, then that might not be entirely fair to the lenders, but it's not as if the rest of the American public is stuck picking up the tab, so why would they be THIS upset?? And, while I can agree with what you said, I also agree with the first part. It's not a great practice in the first place to loan someone money with interest rates that totally hammer the borrower.

[Strange Brew]

Difference being they all conceded. Still waiting for Trump to make the call

So conceded however still to this day calls him illegitimate.

Yeah, old Hill sure has gracefully accepted that loss…..:)

[Strange Brew]

The point was "should the average taxpayer be on the hook for someone else's loan."

Both actions accomplished that. Congress and the president.

No dumbass the point was about dictators and your love of them.

[Strange Brew]

The point was "should the average taxpayer be on the hook for someone else's loan."

Both actions accomplished that. Congress and the president.

No dumbass the point was about dictators and your love of them.

[Smails]

This was the question I was addressing from another poster:

I pointed out there were other places the average taxpayer was on the hook for someone else's loan besides the student loans.



I give you credit where credit is due...you have a playbook and you stick to it no matter what. This discussion and the question posed was specific to student loan forgiveness and your opinion of whether or not taxpayers should be on the hook for that specific program. Do you or do you not support that program? It's pretty simple

[Smails]

I agree with this. Here is my question...

It's not a great practice in the first place to loan someone money with interest rates that totally hammer the borrower.

Morally no..but we're talking about lenders here and they aren't exactly in the business of not maximizing profits. It's what they do and some are more greedy than others. Institutions who extend credit don't do it for the betterment of mankind..they do it to make money. Capitalism can get pretty smelly at times but at the end of the day people need to be held accountable for the choices they make.

[Strange Brew]

Morally no..but we're talking about lenders here and they aren't exactly in the business of not maximizing profits. It's what they do and some are more greedy than others. Institutions who extend credit don't do it for the betterment of mankind..they do it to make money. Capitalism can get pretty smelly at times but at the end of the day people need to be held accountable for the choices they make.

I hope we don’t see a repeat of ‘08-‘09 however the conditions are there and likely worse than back then.

[noteggs]

Let’s not forget 95% of all student loans are Federal. Hence the reason tuition will never go down. Why would they with this backstop along with forgiveness.

I paid 1st - 12 private school tuition for my kids. Yes my choice. Just paid my last college tuition bill for my youngest in January. Now my taxes are going to pay for others tuition? Not my choice. Actually BS.

[Strange Brew]

Let’s not forget 95% of all student loans are Federal. Hence the reason tuition will never go down. Why would they with this backstop along with forgiveness.

I paid 1st - 12 private school tuition for my kids. Yes my choice. Just paid my last college tuition bill for my youngest in January. Now my taxes are going to pay for others tuition? Not my choice. Actually BS.

Yes’s, thanks to the ACA.

You conveniently forgot to mention that provision.

Clown show.

[noteggs]

Yes’s, thanks to the ACA.

You conveniently forgot to mention that provision.

Clown show.

I’m sorry conveniently? Thought we talked about that last week? Consider me lost on your post.

[paulxu]

I’ll pivot. Do you believe the average taxpayer should be on the hook for someone’s else’s loan?

That's your quote. You "pivoted" from a discussion of the courts, and the president authorizing student loan forgiveness.

YOU, not me, asked if the average taxpayer should be on the hook. I pointed out paycheck loans forgiven.


No dumbass the point was about dictators and your love of them.

You decided to ignore your pivot, and move the goal posts to your comment about dictators. Totally ignoring your own question about the average taxpayer.

I guess you had forgotten that the average taxpayer is on the hook for a lot of forgiven loans. Sorry to be the one who had to remind you.

[Xville]

That's your quote. You "pivoted" from a discussion of the courts, and the president authorizing student loan forgiveness.

YOU, not me, asked if the average taxpayer should be on the hook. I pointed out paycheck loans forgiven.



You decided to ignore your pivot, and move the goal posts to your comment about dictators. Totally ignoring your own question about the average taxpayer.

I guess you had forgotten that the average taxpayer is on the hook for a lot of forgiven loans. Sorry to be the one who had to remind you.

He seems to be forgetting a lot of things recently. Supreme Court decisions, his own questions etc. yikes

[Muskie in dayton]

Here’s a replay of the Feds interfering in the 2020 election with the cover of the mainstream media.
https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1798457753779990987?s=46 (https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1798457753779990987?s=46)

Hillary being behind the “Russian interference”, Covid origins, natural immunity, now the Hunter laptop.
I wonder what the next “conspiracy theory” is to become reality. I have some ideas.

[Strange Brew]

Here’s a replay of the Feds interfering in the 2020 election with the cover of the mainstream media.
https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1798457753779990987?s=46 (https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1798457753779990987?s=46)

Hillary being behind the “Russian interference”, Covid origins, natural immunity, now the Hunter laptop.
I wonder what the next “conspiracy theory” is to become reality. I have some ideas.

Reps.

[Xuperman]

All this discussion and concern about the American taxpayer on the hook for loan forgiveness. That is penny ante poker compared to the estimated $450 BILLION per year price tag for O'Biden's illegal immigrant invasion. Let's get real here folks, this EXORBITANT amount of FANTASY cash can not possibly be generated by the American taxpayer. Actual "taxpayer" money is spent long before the IRS collects it. These absurd amounts will have to be borrowed or "printed".

Can we keep our eye on the ball here people? November 5th is for all the marbles. What does your Country look like with 4 more years of this?

[Smails]

I guess you had forgotten that the average taxpayer is on the hook for a lot of forgiven loans. Sorry to be the one who had to remind you.

Do you support this administration's student loan forgiveness plan?

[Xville]

The estimates for the student loan forgiveness program cost is anywhere from about 850 billion to 1.4 trillion dollars.

The estimate cost of universal pre school and universal affordable child care is 750 billion.

So, imo we could have fixed a major problem in this country (especially when it comes to affordable child care), but instead chose to put a bandaid on something else that will only further exacerbate the problem.

Genius.

[xuwillie]

We still can't figure out affordable healthcare, how on earth can we figure out affordable child care? Side note, Biden was an absolute mess today in France.

[Xville]

We still can't figure out affordable healthcare, how on earth can we figure out affordable child care? Side note, Biden was an absolute mess today in France.

Oh we can figure out affordable healthcare. There are just too many hands in the profit cookie jar, some of them being politicians to care about fixing the problems.

[xuwillie]

Oh we can figure out affordable healthcare. There are just too many hands in the profit cookie jar, some of them being politicians to care about fixing the problems.

Just like gun control.

[Xville]

Just like gun control.

true

[Strange Brew]

Oh we can figure out affordable healthcare. There are just too many hands in the profit cookie jar, some of them being politicians to care about fixing the problems.

How? Do you have a proposal or is it always about “evil profits”?

[Xville]

How? Do you have a proposal or is it always about “evil profits”?

I have several suggestions that would help lower the overall cost of care and improve outcomes:

1.) get rid of pbms. They are completely unnecessary and the big three are controlled by the biggest pharmacies in the world that work directly with the mfgs of the drugs.
2.) direct primary care for every primary care giver and get rid of things like copay, coinsurance. Basically get insurance out of those settings for the most part. Subscription models allow primary care givers to actually spend time with their clients and figure out what is going on rather than spending five minutes and subscribing a pill because hospital system a or b told them they need to write a certain number of scripts for medicine a or b a month. Yes this happens.
This subscription model should also help getting people to their primary care before a real problem exists or at least catch things early before they get cost prohibitive. The percentage of people with a primary care giver is extremely small
3.) price transparency for surgeries, imaging etc. this is starting to happen in some places and makes a substantial difference. UHC has a product thatÂ’s outstanding in this area.
4.) surgical centers for outpatient surgeries that arenÂ’t tied to hospital networks or systems. This also for the most part keeps insurance out. Again a substantial cost savings. There needs to be more of these.

I have a ton moreÂ… that are more drastic and would be a complete overhaul of our system but if these four things occurred, weÂ’d see a drastic reduction of costs across the board.


A big problem for a lot of my suggestions is that 1.) too much money, lobbying and profit for insurance companies. It’s not “evil profit” it’s the reality of the situation. Pharmacy is in general the only remaining industry with little to no regulation. 2.) the majority of the population has a very ingrained idea of how healthcare works in our country, and a lot of these changes may seem basic, but in practice they are scary for a lot of people. 3.) we are a very sick country due to our lifestyles and wants/needs/ food supplies/ quick fixes. brief example look at the explosion of semaglutide in this country. The impact of just those drugs on heath plans are astronomical, and in most cases, there is zero reason a person should be taking it.

Anyways I could write a novel on here and I have already wasted enough of my time.

[Strange Brew]

I have several suggestions that would help lower the overall cost of care and improve outcomes:

1.) get rid of pbms. They are completely unnecessary and the big three are controlled by the biggest pharmacies in the world that work directly with the mfgs of the drugs.
2.) direct primary care for every primary care giver and get rid of things like copay, coinsurance. Basically get insurance out of those settings for the most part. Subscription models allow primary care givers to actually spend time with their clients and figure out what is going on rather than spending five minutes and subscribing a pill because hospital system a or b told them they need to write a certain number of scripts for medicine a or b a month. Yes this happens.
This subscription model should also help getting people to their primary care before a real problem exists or at least catch things early before they get cost prohibitive. The percentage of people with a primary care giver is extremely small
3.) price transparency for surgeries, imaging etc. this is starting to happen in some places and makes a substantial difference. UHC has a product thatÂ’s outstanding in this area.
4.) surgical centers for outpatient surgeries that arenÂ’t tied to hospital networks or systems. This also for the most part keeps insurance out. Again a substantial cost savings. There needs to be more of these.

I have a ton moreÂ… that are more drastic and would be a complete overhaul of our system but if these four things occurred, weÂ’d see a drastic reduction of costs across the board.


A big problem for a lot of my suggestions is that 1.) too much money, lobbying and profit for insurance companies. It’s not “evil profit” it’s the reality of the situation. Pharmacy is in general the only remaining industry with little to no regulation. 2.) the majority of the population has a very ingrained idea of how healthcare works in our country, and a lot of these changes may seem basic, but in practice they are scary for a lot of people. 3.) we are a very sick country due to our lifestyles and wants/needs/ food supplies/ quick fixes. brief example look at the explosion of semaglutide in this country. The impact of just those drugs on heath plans are astronomical, and in most cases, there is zero reason a person should be taking it.

Anyways I could write a novel on here and I have already wasted enough of my time.

You’re not wrong friend.

[Muskie in dayton]

I have several suggestions that would help lower the overall cost of care and improve outcomes:

1.) get rid of pbms. They are completely unnecessary and the big three are controlled by the biggest pharmacies in the world that work directly with the mfgs of the drugs.
2.) direct primary care for every primary care giver and get rid of things like copay, coinsurance. Basically get insurance out of those settings for the most part. Subscription models allow primary care givers to actually spend time with their clients and figure out what is going on rather than spending five minutes and subscribing a pill because hospital system a or b told them they need to write a certain number of scripts for medicine a or b a month. Yes this happens.
This subscription model should also help getting people to their primary care before a real problem exists or at least catch things early before they get cost prohibitive. The percentage of people with a primary care giver is extremely small
3.) price transparency for surgeries, imaging etc. this is starting to happen in some places and makes a substantial difference. UHC has a product thatÂ’s outstanding in this area.
4.) surgical centers for outpatient surgeries that arenÂ’t tied to hospital networks or systems. This also for the most part keeps insurance out. Again a substantial cost savings. There needs to be more of these.

I have a ton moreÂ… that are more drastic and would be a complete overhaul of our system but if these four things occurred, weÂ’d see a drastic reduction of costs across the board.


A big problem for a lot of my suggestions is that 1.) too much money, lobbying and profit for insurance companies. It’s not “evil profit” it’s the reality of the situation. Pharmacy is in general the only remaining industry with little to no regulation. 2.) the majority of the population has a very ingrained idea of how healthcare works in our country, and a lot of these changes may seem basic, but in practice they are scary for a lot of people. 3.) we are a very sick country due to our lifestyles and wants/needs/ food supplies/ quick fixes. brief example look at the explosion of semaglutide in this country. The impact of just those drugs on heath plans are astronomical, and in most cases, there is zero reason a person should be taking it.

Anyways I could write a novel on here and I have already wasted enough of my time.
Another, much more realistic and effective way would be one term lifetime limits for all Federal offices. #COS

[Muskie in dayton]

Even a Democrat thinks the Trump trial was FUBAR: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/31/rfk-jr-trump-verdict-undemocratic-00161065

[paulxu]

I'm pretty sure that guy's not a real democrat.

[bobbiemcgee]

Just like gun control.

Well trump and Hunter can't have one so that:s a start.

[GoMuskies]

Think there's enough white trash to go around in this Presidential election? Hilarious wording in this news blurb I read about the Hunter Biden case:

Hunter Biden's former sister-in-law and ex-girlfriend told a Delaware federal jury Thursday that she "panicked" when she found a gun and a box of bullets in his truck and threw the gun in a grocery store trash can because she was afraid he might hurt himself.

[Xuperman]

Our citizenry is profoundly conflicted. Those that choose to engage here (and everywhere) are certainly polarized, but at the same time express a desire to find a balanced news source. That is NOT their actual "news craving", because if it was, NEWS NATION reporting would be a big part of this thread. They are absolutely blasting the ratings of the MSM DEM/FOX propaganda complex.

Please....watch the 7,8,9 weekly time slots on News Nation BEFORE you vote!

[Muskie in dayton]

I'm pretty sure that guy's not a real democrat.
I’m completely sure that guy’s an actual Democrat. Not the shot hole, communist, authoritarian, pedophiliac heap is shit the Democrats are today.

RFK Jr. ‘24.

[bobbiemcgee]

[QUOTE=

RFK Jr. ‘24.[/QUOTE]

Not a trumper anymore? May as well not vote.

https://thehill.com/elections/4708290-donald-trump-joe-biden-poll-lead-hush-money-conviction/

[Muskie in dayton]

Not a trumper anymore? May as well not vote.

https://thehill.com/elections/4708290-donald-trump-joe-biden-poll-lead-hush-money-conviction/
Never been one. Just because I voted for him in ‘20 doesn’t make me a “Trumper”. No, what I am is an American that loves freedom, and I hate the Democrats for destroying America. Why do you hate America?

[Smails]

I'm pretty sure that guy's not a real democrat.

I'm pretty sure someone can't be a real democrat and question the merits of that trial...correct? The Dems are headed to a weird place in that they are now denouncing people who don't 100% tow the line on messaging. Diversity of thought seems to be getting pushed aside more and more each day.

[paulxu]

The positions that RFK jr. takes are not in line with the Democratic positions.
Therefore, I don't think of his as a "real" democrat.

Question the merits of the trial, but be rational about it.
It was not Biden weaponizing the DOJ. It was an action in the State of New York court system...not the federal courts where the DOJ operates.

[Xville]

I'm pretty sure someone can't be a real democrat and question the merits of that trial...correct? The Dems are headed to a weird place in that they are now denouncing people who don't 100% tow the line on messaging. Diversity of thought seems to be getting pushed aside more and more each day.

That’s not a problem exclusive to democrats.

[bobbiemcgee]

[QUOTE=Muskie in dayton;785389]Never been one. Just because I voted for him in ‘20 doesn’t make me a “Trumper”. No, what I am is an American that loves freedom, and I hate the Democrats for destroying America. Why do you hate America?[/Q

What a dumb ass. You hate democrats but are going to vote for one. Duh. .What a hypocrite. You don't know shit about freedom or my patriotism. I have a public service resume longer than your arm. You are just as delusional as your Dayton fanbase..You live in "armpit of america".

[Xuperman]

Never been one. Just because I voted for him in ‘20 doesn’t make me a “Trumper”. No, what I am is an American that loves freedom, and I hate the Democrats for destroying America. Why do you hate America?

IF....I MEAN IF? IF there is a segment of this country that truly HATES AMERICA....it has been propagated and exists EXCLUSIVELY in the DEMOCRAT PARTY.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/school-district-dei-trainer-explains-why-american-flag-is-becoming-hate-symbol/ar-BB1nLwFk?ocid=BingNewsSerp

These BLM Marxist are hell bent on taking full advantage of our sick/forced DEI mentality.

This is where we are.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4314760&page=1

[Xuperman]

[QUOTE=Muskie in dayton;785389]Never been one. Just because I voted for him in ‘20 doesn’t make me a “Trumper”. No, what I am is an American that loves freedom, and I hate the Democrats for destroying America. Why do you hate America?[/Q

What a dumb ass. You hate democrats but are going to vote for one. Duh. .What a hypocrite. You don't know shit about freedom or my patriotism. I have a public service resume longer than your arm. You are just as delusional as your Dayton fanbase..You live in "armpit of america".

Dumb Ass? Have a mirror handy?

[bobbiemcgee]

Nm

[paulxu]

President Joe Biden on Sunday is set to visit the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery, the burial place for 1,800 U.S. Marines, whom Donald Trump famously called “suckers” and “losers” and had refused to honor with a visit in 2018 because it had been raining.

Trump, president at the time, had been scheduled to visit the cemetery about 60 miles from Paris but canceled because of the rain. He told his then-chief of staff John Kelly: “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” Later on the same trip, he called servicemembers who died for their country “suckers.”

Kelly, a retired Marine general whose son, also a Marine, died in Afghanistan, went to the cemetery in Trump’s place. Photos from the visit show no rain falling as he walked amid the gravestones.

I don't think John Kelly, or his dead son, are suckers or losers.

[Xuperman]

I don't think John Kelly, or his dead son, are suckers or losers.

One of the top reasons Trump is a very well defined ass hole.

[Xuperman]

Question the merits of the trial, but be rational about it.
It was not Biden weaponizing the DOJ. It was an action in the State of New York court system...not the federal courts where the DOJ operates.

Read this and make that ridiculous statement again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/scrutiny-of-prosecutor-matthew-colangelo-intensifies-after-trump-conviction/ar-BB1ntFhn

[Xuperman]

Most certainly the merits are questionable and I'll tell you what is rational reasoning.

An argument could be easily made that this "zombie case" was resurrected specifically to manufacture a key component for the DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

[bjf123]

Most certainly the merits are questionable and I'll tell you what is rational reasoning.

An argument could be easily made that this "zombie case" was resurrected specifically to manufacture a key component for the DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

There’s doubt about that????????


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

Cohen had already gone to jail for the same set of facts.
Barr killed the Trump part, and the statute of limitations made federal prosecution unlikely.
So, the state proceeded. Smart of Bragg to get seasoned help.

Despite all the whining by you guys, a jury unanimously convicted him of all charges, after being presented with the facts.
Gag orders are to prevent idiots like Trump from inciting violence (see January 6th and the attack on FBI office in Cincinnati).
That didn't harm his defense. He was too chicken to take the stand...all he can do is whine like a little baby.

If Biden was really using the DOJ, he'd certainly stop the prosecution of his son. Despite the questionable tactics in that case, he is letting it play out.

[Muskie in dayton]

Cohen had already gone to jail for the same set of facts.
Barr killed the Trump part, and the statute of limitations made federal prosecution unlikely.
So, the state proceeded. Smart of Bragg to get seasoned help.

Despite all the whining by you guys, a jury unanimously convicted him of all charges, after being presented with the facts.
Gag orders are to prevent idiots like Trump from inciting violence (see January 6th and the attack on FBI office in Cincinnati).
That didn't harm his defense. He was too chicken to take the stand...all he can do is whine like a little baby.

If Biden was really using the DOJ, he'd certainly stop the prosecution of his son. Despite the questionable tactics in that case, he is letting it play out.
Let's say for argument's sake that the trial was completely fair. Fine. But would the nature of the crime really be worth spending the time and money pursuing, when so many violent crimes go unprosecuted in NY? Is this worth the opportunity cost of further compromising public safety? Is it also worth the damage prosecuting a former President would do to the function of our political system? If you say yes, you are nothing but the authoritarian Marxist your party has become. Stop destroying America.

Paul, mark this down now: Hunter Biden will be found guilty, and your media will blast the shit out of this story along with: "clearly contrary to the right-wing conspiracy theory that the DoJ is biased...". Then he'll get some joke sentence like 6-months' probation which only Fox will talk about how lopsided it is.

[Muskie in dayton]

[QUOTE=Muskie in dayton;785389]Never been one. Just because I voted for him in ‘20 doesn’t make me a “Trumper”. No, what I am is an American that loves freedom, and I hate the Democrats for destroying America. Why do you hate America?[/Q

What a dumb ass. You hate democrats but are going to vote for one. Duh. .What a hypocrite. You don't know shit about freedom or my patriotism. I have a public service resume longer than your arm. You are just as delusional as your Dayton fanbase. You live in "armpit of america".
I hate TODAY'S Democrat party, because they are pieces of shit who are destroying our country. I was a Democrat 20+ years ago, and RFK is a relic of that party. That's not hypocritical at all. And don't worry, Bobbie, I don't question your love for America. I understand that those supporting today's Dems either hate America or have been hopelessly brainwashed by the media, and you are clearly the latter.

We can agree on Dayton's fan base and the City being the armpit of America.

Just like today's Democrats. lol

[UCGRAD4X]

Cohen had already gone to jail for the same set of facts.
Barr killed the Trump part, and the statute of limitations made federal prosecution unlikely.
So, the state proceeded. Smart of Bragg to get seasoned help.

Despite all the whining by you guys, a jury unanimously convicted him of all charges, after being presented with the facts.
Gag orders are to prevent idiots like Trump from inciting violence (see January 6th and the attack on FBI office in Cincinnati).
That didn't harm his defense. He was too chicken to take the stand...all he can do is whine like a little baby.

If Biden was really using the DOJ, he'd certainly stop the prosecution of his son. Despite the questionable tactics in that case, he is letting it play out.

It is possible they were not presented with all the facts from the defense, and many of the facts presented by the prosecution were irrelevant, prejudicial and not permitted to be refuted nor objection given any regard.

[bobbiemcgee]

[QUOTE=bobbiemcgee;785394]
I hate TODAY'S Democrat party, because they are pieces of shit who are destroying our country. I was a Democrat 20+ years ago, and RFK is a relic of that party. That's not hypocritical at all. And don't worry, Bobbie, I don't question your love for America. I understand that those supporting today's Dems either hate America or have been hopelessly brainwashed by the media, and you are clearly the latter.

We can agree on Dayton's fan base and the City being the armpit of America.

Just like today's Democrats. lol

We can agree to disagree but don't ever challenge my patriotism. Apparently 50% of the country is brainwashed One way or the other, so deal with it.

[paulxu]

Let's say for argument's sake that the trial was completely fair. Fine. But would the nature of the crime really be worth spending the time and money pursuing, when so many violent crimes go unprosecuted in NY? Is this worth the opportunity cost of further compromising public safety? Is it also worth the damage prosecuting a former President would do to the function of our political system? If you say yes, you are nothing but the authoritarian Marxist your party has become. Stop destroying America.

Paul, mark this down now: Hunter Biden will be found guilty, and your media will blast the shit out of this story along with: "clearly contrary to the right-wing conspiracy theory that the DoJ is biased...". Then he'll get some joke sentence like 6-months' probation which only Fox will talk about how lopsided it is.

See how nuts you've become? Biden didn't pay some 1.4 million or something in taxes. And may have already paid them back. Trump's DOJ let a guy off after missing $200 million, and he paid back $139 million...no trial like Hunter has.

The gun was bought when he was an addict (and lied on the purchase form; although there is a question about the gun shop's owner's handling of the paperwork) and had it for 11 days. Most federal prosecutors, including Fox's own Trey Gowdy, say they'd never prosecute. It wasn't used in a crime.

If he's found guilty, he'll get whatever the judge decides...just like Trump. Wake up and don't be so closed minded.
Maybe this will help.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/07/hunter-biden-trial-truths-column-00162083

[bjf123]

I think one of the reasons they might be prosecuting Hunter is because of the plea deal his lawyers tried to sneak through. Wasn’t it absolving him of a number of charges?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Actually there was no "sneaking" Weiss a republican and Hunter's attorneys agreed to a deal and the Republicans put heat on the judge to reject it which she did.

[Strange Brew]

Actually there was no "sneaking" Weiss a republican and Hunter's attorneys agreed to a deal and the Republicans put heat on the judge to reject it which she did.

How did that Judge get appointed again?

I believe it was a compromise with the 2 D Senators. No?

[bobbiemcgee]

I think she did the right thing.

[Xuperman]

Actually there was no "sneaking" Weiss a republican and Hunter's attorneys agreed to a deal and the Republicans put heat on the judge to reject it which she did.

"Actually" to describe it as "sneaking" is putting it mildly. Let's review.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-plea-deal-court-judge/

Both Legal teams obviously worked together to craft this plea deal. It would take an idiot to think that there was not significant pressure, from high places, insisting on some Pro Biden "creativity"!

Let me point out what is obvious to anyone paying attention. It is the possible FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act) CHARGES that scare the hell out of ALL THE BIDENS. The Plea deal effectively implied IMMUNITY from ANY prosecution on ANY charges brought via ongoing/future investigations....in exchange for a guilty plea on the existing tax charges. Knowing that the 2 IRS WHISTLE BLOWERS had emerged, real trouble for the "Family Syndicate" is now a reality. The Judge was asked to "Rubber stamp" the deal immediately upon being presented with it. Fortunately she smelled a rat, reviewed the plea and said "I have never heard of any deal like this!". How can you say "Republican heat" caused her to reject it?

If Comer can overcome the massive political forces that are stonewalling his investigation, get the whistle blowers testimony on record, some people are going down in EPIC fashion.

[paulxu]

If Comer can overcome the massive political forces that are stonewalling his investigation, get the whistle blowers testimony on record, some people are going down in EPIC fashion.

Yes, he needs some more Russian intelligence operatives like Smirnov to make up more junk and help his nonsense of a hearing.

[bobbiemcgee]

"Actually" to describe it as "sneaking" is putting it mildly. Let's review.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-plea-deal-court-judge/

Both Legal teams obviously worked together to craft this plea deal. It would take an idiot to think that there was not significant pressure, from high places, insisting on some Pro Biden "creativity"!

Let me point out what is obvious to anyone paying attention. It is the possible FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act) CHARGES that scare the hell out of ALL THE BIDENS. The Plea deal effectively implied IMMUNITY from ANY prosecution on ANY charges brought via ongoing/future investigations....in exchange for a guilty plea on the existing tax charges. Knowing that the 2 IRS WHISTLE BLOWERS had emerged, real trouble for the "Family Syndicate" is now a reality. The Judge was asked to "Rubber stamp" the deal immediately upon being presented with it. Fortunately she smelled a rat, reviewed the plea and said "I have never heard of any deal like this!". How can you say "Republican heat" caused her to reject it?

If Comer can overcome the massive political forces that are stonewalling his investigation, get the whistle blowers testimony on record, some people are going down in EPIC fashion.

The article sez "the plea deal came under intense scrutiny by republicans in Congress".

[Xuperman]

Yes, he needs some more Russian intelligence operatives like Smirnov to make up more junk and help his nonsense of a hearing.

That's just foolish deflection. The whistle blowers are 100% credible, but getting sworn testimony has so far been blocked. Look for a streaming repeat of Sunday's Full Measure with Sharyl Attkisson for a highly detailed interview. Educate yourself.

[Xuperman]

The article sez "the plea deal came under intense scrutiny by republicans in Congress".

Of course they intensely scrutinized the details of the plea. ONLY because they had time to do so......thanks to the Judge refusing that ridiculous instant approval attempt.

She didn't need any pressure from them to make this easy call.

[bobbiemcgee]

"In an unusual move" house Republicans filed motions on the Eve before the hearing. Probably nothing.

[xubrew]

Let's say for argument's sake that the trial was completely fair. Fine. But would the nature of the crime really be worth spending the time and money pursuing, when so many violent crimes go unprosecuted in NY? Is this worth the opportunity cost of further compromising public safety? Is it also worth the damage prosecuting a former President would do to the function of our political system? If you say yes, you are nothing but the authoritarian Marxist your party has become. Stop destroying America.

Paul, mark this down now: Hunter Biden will be found guilty, and your media will blast the shit out of this story along with: "clearly contrary to the right-wing conspiracy theory that the DoJ is biased...". Then he'll get some joke sentence like 6-months' probation which only Fox will talk about how lopsided it is.

Please validate this.

It's my understanding that crime isn't just down in NYC in 2024, but it's down by A TON!! And this claim that they don't prosecute violent crimes. What is that based on?? Maybe they don't. Maybe the reason crime is down is because they're just ignoring all of it. But, one of my best friends is from Brooklyn and still lives there, his whole family has always lived there, he doesn't work in law enforcement (he's a teacher), but many of his friends do, and while I've never lived there for an extended period of time, I do try and get there for a week or two every year, and NO ONE that I've every come across that actually lives and works in NYC, even those who work in law enforcement, seem to think that violent crime is out of control and is never prosecuted. Truth be told I feel a lot safer in NYC than I do a lot of other places.

Yet people are always claiming that violent crime is out of control and is never prosecuted. What are you basing that on?? What actual data suggests that?? NYC isn't a place that has a reputation of being easy on crime, be it white collar crimes or violent crimes. At least not from what I've seen. Many who say they're afraid to go there because it's not safe have never gone there. Maybe in 1984 that was the case, but if they actually went there in 2024, they wouldn't feel unsafe.

[xubrew]

Cohen had already gone to jail for the same set of facts.
Barr killed the Trump part, and the statute of limitations made federal prosecution unlikely.
So, the state proceeded. Smart of Bragg to get seasoned help.

Despite all the whining by you guys, a jury unanimously convicted him of all charges, after being presented with the facts.
Gag orders are to prevent idiots like Trump from inciting violence (see January 6th and the attack on FBI office in Cincinnati).
That didn't harm his defense. He was too chicken to take the stand...all he can do is whine like a little baby.

If Biden was really using the DOJ, he'd certainly stop the prosecution of his son. Despite the questionable tactics in that case, he is letting it play out.

I guess when you turn 50, your parents finally decide you're on your own.

[xubrew]

I have a lot of issues with Trump, but the fact that he slept with a porn star and paid her off doesn't bother me. And I know that wasn't the actual crime in the actual courts, that's the crime in the court of public opinion. There are plenty of things to criticize Trump for. Sleeping with a porn star and giving her money to hush it up isn't one of them. Who cares??

I have a lot of issues with Biden, but his son being an addict and doing the kinds of things that are typical of addicts isn't one of them. If anything I think addiction among former servicemen/women is something we should take more seriously and do more to help those who suffer from it. Now Hunter Biden has access to far more resources than just about any other veteran that deals with addiction does, but still. I'd like to seem more of them in VA hospitals than in prisons. There are plenty of things to criticize Biden for. His son being an addict isn't one of them. Who cares??

The fact that so many people are jumping on these two waves demonstrates how fucked we all are.

[bobbiemcgee]

I would agree.,Prosecution for either offense is rare.

[bobbiemcgee]

"I don:t. Care about you, , I just want your vote".

And now we have J6, " warriors". Disgusting!

[GoMuskies]

"I don:t. Care about you, , I just want your vote".

Is this a quote from the mind of every politician ever?

[Xville]

I have a lot of issues with Trump, but the fact that he slept with a porn star and paid her off doesn't bother me. And I know that wasn't the actual crime in the actual courts, that's the crime in the court of public opinion. There are plenty of things to criticize Trump for. Sleeping with a porn star and giving her money to hush it up isn't one of them. Who cares??

I have a lot of issues with Biden, but his son being an addict and doing the kinds of things that are typical of addicts isn't one of them. If anything I think addiction among former servicemen/women is something we should take more seriously and do more to help those who suffer from it. Now Hunter Biden has access to far more resources than just about any other veteran that deals with addiction does, but still. I'd like to seem more of them in VA hospitals than in prisons. There are plenty of things to criticize Biden for. His son being an addict isn't one of them. Who cares??

The fact that so many people are jumping on these two waves demonstrates how fucked we all are.

Agree. It’s funny watching the two sides on here though.

[bobbiemcgee]

Is this a quote from the mind of every politician ever?

Trump this weekend

[xuphan]

Is this a quote from the mind of every politician ever?

“I don’t care about you. I just want your vote and your monetary campaign contribution”. This is the mind quote from every politician.

[bobbiemcgee]

Never heard anyone just come out and say they don't give a shit about the constituents but then we are dealing with an idiot. And a convicted felon who may get nuclear secrets when he can:t have a gun.HAHA HA. Sad country.

[Muskie in dayton]

Please validate this.

It's my understanding that crime isn't just down in NYC in 2024, but it's down by A TON!! And this claim that they don't prosecute violent crimes. What is that based on?? Maybe they don't. Maybe the reason crime is down is because they're just ignoring all of it. But, one of my best friends is from Brooklyn and still lives there, his whole family has always lived there, he doesn't work in law enforcement (he's a teacher), but many of his friends do, and while I've never lived there for an extended period of time, I do try and get there for a week or two every year, and NO ONE that I've every come across that actually lives and works in NYC, even those who work in law enforcement, seem to think that violent crime is out of control and is never prosecuted. Truth be told I feel a lot safer in NYC than I do a lot of other places.

Yet people are always claiming that violent crime is out of control and is never prosecuted. What are you basing that on?? What actual data suggests that?? NYC isn't a place that has a reputation of being easy on crime, be it white collar crimes or violent crimes. At least not from what I've seen. Many who say they're afraid to go there because it's not safe have never gone there. Maybe in 1984 that was the case, but if they actually went there in 2024, they wouldn't feel unsafe.
If criminal acts aren’t prosecuted, they aren’t crimes. Think about it.

[Muskie in dayton]

See how nuts you've become? Biden didn't pay some 1.4 million or something in taxes. And may have already paid them back. Trump's DOJ let a guy off after missing $200 million, and he paid back $139 million...no trial like Hunter has.

The gun was bought when he was an addict (and lied on the purchase form; although there is a question about the gun shop's owner's handling of the paperwork) and had it for 11 days. Most federal prosecutors, including Fox's own Trey Gowdy, say they'd never prosecute. It wasn't used in a crime.

If he's found guilty, he'll get whatever the judge decides...just like Trump. Wake up and don't be so closed minded.
Maybe this will help.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/07/hunter-biden-trial-truths-column-00162083
“Wake up and don’t be so closed-minded”, says one of the most closed-minded people on this board while citing a left-wing publication. How apropos.

[Xville]

If criminal acts aren’t prosecuted, they aren’t crimes. Think about it.

In other words you’re basing your opinion on feelings and your narrative.

From a factual perspective, it’s one of the safest large cities in the country, if not the world.

From a personal standpoint, I’ve been to New York a ton over the last decade as a brother went to college, law school and lived there. Bronx, queens and manhattan. Never felt unsafe there ever. More nervous in downtown Louisville or St. Louis than there.

[xubrew]

If criminal acts aren’t prosecuted, they aren’t crimes. Think about it.

Yes, I understand that. I even said as much in the post you quoted. Now, what data suggests NYC is not prosecuting criminal acts? What is the basis of your statement?

[Xuperman]

Yes, I understand that. I even said as much in the post you quoted. Now, what data suggests NYC is not prosecuting criminal acts? What is the basis of your statement?

Allow me. I've got some time on my hands.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00056/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-july-2022#:~:text=Overall%20index%20crime%20in%20New%20 York%20City%20increased,a%2025.6%25%20rise%20in%20 burglary%20%281%2C325%20v.%201%2C055%29.

https://nypost.com/2024/04/03/us-news/crime-was-in-fact-up-year-as-mayor-adams-tries-to-downplay-disorder/

https://www.newsweek.com/alvin-braggs-soft-crime-policies-face-scrutiny-manhattan-da-goes-after-trump-1789040

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/24/1009578809/cops-say-low-morale-and-department-scrutiny-are-driving-them-away-from-the-job

The "whistling past the graveyard" analogy is a perfect fit here......again. You people are going to get a real wake up call if this Big City progressive criminal justice trend continues. Do you not realize that normal Law Enforcement engagements with criminal activity is negatively effected do to the NEW high risk elements envolved? Do you not understand that the entire playbook of any Criminal Justice prosecutor is to drastically reduce overall prosecutions? Obviously not because you think crime is down.

Having that mindset AND the ability to vote is just plain dangerous.

[Xville]

Look ma I can find stuff on the internet that fits a narrative to.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna146904

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/nyc-march-2024-crime-statistics.amp

https://www.amny.com/news/crime-up-nyc-still-safer/

Must have been all those conservative Giuliani and Republican lawmakers policies to make crime so bad back in 2000 yada yada yada....


Some of you all need to get out more and realize you can literally find anything on the internet to support a narrative.

I do love though that one link of “evidence” was that trump and his allies said so. We may as well close the book on it then. Trump said so, so it must be true.

[Smails]

Wake up and don't be so closed minded.



Comedy gold right here.

Hi Paul, my name is self-awareness.....have me met?

[xubrew]

Allow me. I've got some time on my hands.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00056/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-july-2022#:~:text=Overall%20index%20crime%20in%20New%20 York%20City%20increased,a%2025.6%25%20rise%20in%20 burglary%20%281%2C325%20v.%201%2C055%29.

https://nypost.com/2024/04/03/us-news/crime-was-in-fact-up-year-as-mayor-adams-tries-to-downplay-disorder/

https://www.newsweek.com/alvin-braggs-soft-crime-policies-face-scrutiny-manhattan-da-goes-after-trump-1789040

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/24/1009578809/cops-say-low-morale-and-department-scrutiny-are-driving-them-away-from-the-job

The "whistling past the graveyard" analogy is a perfect fit here......again. You people are going to get a real wake up call if this Big City progressive criminal justice trend continues. Do you not realize that normal Law Enforcement engagements with criminal activity is negatively effected do to the NEW high risk elements envolved? Do you not understand that the entire playbook of any Criminal Justice prosecutor is to drastically reduce overall prosecutions? Obviously not because you think crime is down.

Having that mindset AND the ability to vote is just plain dangerous.

Thanks for sharing these.

The first article is from 2022.

The last article is from 2021, and indicates that there was a spike in crime, which there was. After COVID, crime went up once people started going outside again.

The other two seem to indicate that MORE (not less) of the reported felonies are being prosecuted.


I'm not coming at this from a political point of view. I'm coming at this as someone who likes going to NYC, and who once actually considered moving to NYC, and who has a lot of friends who live there. Everyone says that NYC is this dangerous place, and that crime is out of control, and that nothing is done to combat the out of control violent crime. That is just CATEGORICALLY not true! It's safe! it's VERY safe! The streets feel safe. The subways feel safe. The bars feel safe. Most people don't think of NYC as having nice beaches, but they actually do, and those are safe as well. People who say NYC is dangerous all seem to have one thing in common. They've NEVER actually been there.

[Xville]

Thanks for sharing these.

The first article is from 2022.

The last article is from 2021, and indicates that there was a spike in crime, which there was. After COVID, crime went up once people started going outside again.

The other two seem to indicate that MORE (not less) of the reported felonies are being prosecuted.


I'm not coming at this from a political point of view. I'm coming at this as someone who likes going to NYC, and who once actually considered moving to NYC, and who has a lot of friends who live there. Everyone says that NYC is this dangerous place, and that crime is out of control, and that nothing is done to combat the out of control violent crime. That is just CATEGORICALLY not true! It's safe! it's VERY safe! The streets feel safe. The subways feel safe. The bars feel safe. Most people don't think of NYC as having nice beaches, but they actually do, and those are safe as well. People who say NYC is dangerous all seem to have one thing in common. They've NEVER actually been there.

Or listen to people like Cruz and Trump and believe everything they say.

[xubrew]

In other words you’re basing your opinion on feelings and your narrative.

From a factual perspective, it’s one of the safest large cities in the country, if not the world.

From a personal standpoint, I’ve been to New York a ton over the last decade as a brother went to college, law school and lived there. Bronx, queens and manhattan. Never felt unsafe there ever. More nervous in downtown Louisville or St. Louis than there.

I agree completely!!

I'm going to be in Rome in a couple of weeks. I've been there before. It doesn't feel as safe as NYC. I have some friends who live near Rome and they feel the same way.

[xuphan]

I agree completely!!

I'm going to be in Rome in a couple of weeks. I've been there before. It doesn't feel as safe as NYC. I have some friends who live near Rome and they feel the same way.

Maybe Trump and Hunter can be cell mates.

[paulxu]

Is this the point where someone runs around shouting fake trial, weaponized justice system, sham trial, revenge coming, etc.?

[paulxu]

See how nuts you've become? ....... Most federal prosecutors, including Fox's own Trey Gowdy, say they'd never prosecute. It wasn't used in a crime........

If he's found guilty, he'll get whatever the judge decides...just like Trump. Wake up and don't be so closed minded.
Maybe this will help.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/07/hunter-biden-trial-truths-column-00162083

Bump
Guess it didn't help you guys. Sad.

[GoMuskies]

It's early to be on the bourbon, paul.

[paulxu]

I need it to keep up with some of this. It'll wear you right out.

[STL_XUfan]

It's early to be on the bourbon, paul.

Well that is just silly. It is a gorgeous day outside to enjoy some patio drinking.

[GoMuskies]

Well that is just silly. It is a gorgeous day outside to enjoy some patio drinking.

Yeah, as soon as I typed it I was wondering who had invaded my body. Too early for bourbon?!? Dumbest thing I've ever said, and I apologize to all of you who had to read it!

[bjf123]

Yeah, as soon as I typed it I was wondering who had invaded my body. Too early for bourbon?!? Dumbest thing I've ever said, and I apologize to all of you who had to read it!

It’s five o’clock somewhere!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[STL_XUfan]

Yeah, as soon as I typed it I was wondering who had invaded my body. Too early for bourbon?!? Dumbest thing I've ever said, and I apologize to all of you who had to read it!

Glad to see that there has finally been some agreement in this thread:

https://i.imgur.com/r6N6CQu.gif

[Xville]

Maybe Trump and Hunter can be cell mates.

That’s funny. Neither will ever spend a minute in jail

[Smails]

Yeah, as soon as I typed it I was wondering who had invaded my body. Too early for bourbon?!? Dumbest thing I've ever said, and I apologize to all of you who had to read it!

Solidarity!

[Strange Brew]

So wait. Pelosi admitted it was her responsibility to call in the Nat’l Guard on Jan 6th? Huh.

[bjf123]

So wait. Pelosi admitted it was her responsibility to call in the Nat’l Guard on Jan 6th? Huh.

Yep. And the J6 committee would not permit any testimony about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XU_Lou]

Yep. And the J6 committee would not permit any testimony about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just like Merchan wouldn't allow former FEC Commissioner Bradley Smith to testify.

Do you see a pattern?

[bobbiemcgee]

Lindsay Graham said D Day was as failure.

[bjf123]

Just like Merchan wouldn't allow former FEC Commissioner Bradley Smith to testify.

Do you see a pattern?

You’d have to be brain dead not to see it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xuperman]

I'm not coming at this from a political point of view. I'm coming at this as someone who likes going to NYC, and who once actually considered moving to NYC, and who has a lot of friends who live there. Everyone says that NYC is this dangerous place, and that crime is out of control, and that nothing is done to combat the out of control violent crime. That is just CATEGORICALLY not true! It's safe! it's VERY safe! The streets feel safe. The subways feel safe. The bars feel safe. Most people don't think of NYC as having nice beaches, but they actually do, and those are safe as well. People who say NYC is dangerous all seem to have one thing in common. They've NEVER actually been there.

I lived in and around NYC for 7 years....'97-'04. My son was born in Port Jervis NY. My brother in law lives on Long Island. I know the area really well and still go there on occasion. Glad to hear the city has provided a good experience for you, but I am guessing those experiences were not in Alphabet City Manhattan, Jamaica Queens or Flatbush in Brooklyn.

Look, the "Criminal Justice Reform" movement is relatively new. The "Defund the Police" concept would have been considered INSANE 15 years ago. Widespread prosecution of rank and file police officers has become common since Obama. This stuff has been firmly implemented in nearly ALL of our BIG CITIES....especially those under Dem control.

I would love to hear any coherent reasoning that this anti-law enforcement shift reduces crime, but making that argument doesn't seem possible. These practices do nothing but create a mass exodus in existing police forces and severely demoralize those that stay. Orders to not engage certain criminal activity has become common. Progressive prosecutors are actively working with a "Criminal Justice" mindset resulting in decreases in crimes prosecuted, with little to NO BOND for large numbers that are. Shoplifting and other petty crimes are now LEGAL!

Believing crime is down is just not logical. Insisting it is.....along with having the ability to vote.....is dangerous.

[Xville]

I lived in and around NYC for 7 years....'97-'04. My son was born in Port Jervis NY. My brother in law lives on Long Island. I know the area really well and still go there on occasion. Glad to hear the city has provided a good experience for you, but I am guessing those experiences were not in Alphabet City Manhattan, Jamaica Queens or Flatbush in Brooklyn.

Look, the "Criminal Justice Reform" movement is relatively new. The "Defund the Police" concept would have been considered INSANE 15 years ago. Widespread prosecution of rank and file police officers has become common since Obama. This stuff has been firmly implemented in nearly ALL of our BIG CITIES....especially those under Dem control.

I would love to hear any coherent reasoning that this anti-law enforcement shift reduces crime, but making that argument doesn't seem possible. These practices do nothing but create a mass exodus in existing police forces and severely demoralize those that stay. Orders to not engage certain criminal activity has become common. Progressive prosecutors are actively working with a "Criminal Justice" mindset resulting in decreases in crimes prosecuted, with little to NO BOND for large numbers that are. Shoplifting and other petty crimes are now LEGAL!

Believing crime is down is just not logical. Insisting it is.....along with having the ability to vote.....is dangerous.

What's dangerous to me is just insisting on things because you "feel" a certain way no matter how many stats are put in front of you. Take a look at numbers from 2022-2024 in New York City and compare that to Guiliani's New York in 2000.

Hell, take a look at Cincinnati...the latest numbers of 2022 was that the city was at a ten year low for crime. Democratic run city by the way.

The rest of your fear stoking Anti-police, Defund the police, "Criminal Justice Reform" I'd like to see some actual proof, not media talking points from Trump, his followers or biased BLM agenda nonsense.

[xuphan]

Lindsay Graham said D Day was as failure.

Did he really? Do you have a link with what he said?

[Xville]

Did he really? Do you have a link with what he said?

Yep. Hes another that needs to be put out to pasture just like Trump, Biden.

https://www.allsides.com/news/2024-06-09-1016/politics-he-s-truly-lost-his-mind-lindsey-graham-ripped-after-calling-d-day

[Smails]

What's dangerous to me is just insisting on things because you "feel" a certain way no matter how many stats are put in front of you. Take a look at numbers from 2022-2024 in New York City and compare that to Guiliani's New York in 2000.

Hell, take a look at Cincinnati...the latest numbers of 2022 was that the city was at a ten year low for crime. Democratic run city by the way.

The rest of your fear stoking Anti-police, Defund the police, "Criminal Justice Reform" I'd like to see some actual proof, not media talking points from Trump, his followers or biased BLM agenda nonsense.

I agree anecdotal stories about "I know someone who got jumped in Cincinnati" don't hold any water. That being said, there needs to be more transparency about crime statistics and how they are formulated.

I don't subscribe to the theory that police aren't reporting and investigating crimes or that DA's aren't prosecuting, but there is a HUGE problem with cities and counties just flat out not reporting any data. Some states have even reported less than 60% of crime data. I don't think it's a stretch to to theorize that cities with bad crime numbers are't going to jump to the front of the line to send their information to the FBI. Interesting read here:

https://kansasreflector.com/2023/10/29/politicians-love-to-cite-crime-data-its-often-wrong/

[Xville]

I agree anecdotal stories about "I know someone who got jumped in Cincinnati" don't hold any water. That being said, there needs to be more transparency about crime statistics and how they are formulated.

I don't subscribe to the theory that police aren't reporting and investigating crimes or that DA's aren't prosecuting, but there is a HUGE problem with cities and counties just flat out not reporting any data. Some states have even reported less than 60% of crime data. I don't think it's a stretch to to theorize that cities with bad crime numbers are't going to jump to the front of the line to send their information to the FBI. Interesting read here:

https://kansasreflector.com/2023/10/29/politicians-love-to-cite-crime-data-its-often-wrong/

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

[XU_Lou]

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

Maybe you should get out more and read things outside of your biased cocoon.

The news in Smails article has been widely reported and discussed for months.

Also, crime did not come down in NYC in 2023. Dig a little deeper....

[Xville]

Maybe you should get out more and read things outside of your biased cocoon.

The news in Smails article has been widely reported and discussed for months.

Also, crime did not come down in NYC in 2023. Dig a little deeper....

So much irony in that first statement.

Point me to where I said it did genius.

[xuphan]

Yep. Hes another that needs to be put out to pasture just like Trump, Biden.

https://www.allsides.com/news/2024-06-09-1016/politics-he-s-truly-lost-his-mind-lindsey-graham-ripped-after-calling-d-day

Wow! Politics aside what an idiot. Hope he gets an earful from the brave women and men who defend this country. Wonder if he thinks the Boston Tea Party was a disaster as well?

[Xuperman]

Discussing America's big city crime and law enforcement/criminal justice reform, is probably the most dishonest political discussion going.....and discussing it here is no different.

Example: Criminal statistics. The genesis of most crime stats is law enforcement arresting individuals for suspected criminal activity and charging the perpetrators with crimes. The following can not be debated.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-nypd-needs-more-cops-after-years-of-officers-exiting-mayor-adams/ar-AA1ijdSm

This is a very serious problem coast to coast. However, what can not be statistically recorded is the officers (that somehow manage to stick) willingness to engage suspected criminal activity. There is some actual policy being implemented that discourages police engaging certain crimes, while there is an increasing amount of rumors that some police are CHOOSING not to engage because of NEWLY created risks involved.

So, if those here who insist stats show crime is no big issue, post something, anything, that would explain the mass exodus of cops from our biggest cities. Only then can an honest discussion take place.

[Xville]

Uh police are leaving the job because the job sucks and you don’t make good money doing it. Didnt know that had to be pointed out.

If I have the chance of dying or getting shot at, I better be getting paid accordingly.

No one is saying crime isn’t a problem, you, like many here, just take issues to such an extreme that no one can have a reasonable discussion with you.

[Xuperman]

Uh police are leaving the job because the job sucks and you don’t make good money doing it. Didnt know that had to be pointed out.

Thanks for making my point. That response could not be more dishonest. You've really out done yourself.... and that's saying something.

Being a police officer in this country has always been a highly respected profession held in the highest esteem. These heroes have a calling to protect and serve. Money has never been much of a factor, and you know it.

There has NEVER been this type of widespread exodus of officer ranks in the history of American Law Enforcement.This is a disturbing trend that has gained mass momentum due to the drastic law enforcement changes of the last decade. So, absolutely the job sucks now...as opposed to how it was a proud profession prior to BLM.

How can constant reduction in police rolls, dismal recruiting numbers, demoralized officers working a job that sucks, with low pay, and can get you killed, magically reduce crime?

You post in ridiculous numbers here, but never really add anything of substance. Why not expose yourself occasionally with some detail with your position on issues?

[Xville]

Thanks for making my point. That response could not be more dishonest. You've really out done yourself.... and that's saying something.

Being a police officer in this country has always been a highly respected profession held in the highest esteem. These heroes have a calling to protect and serve. Money has never been much of a factor, and you know it.

There has NEVER been this type of widespread exodus of officer ranks in the history of American Law Enforcement.This is a disturbing trend that has gained mass momentum due to the drastic law enforcement changes of the last decade. Would you care to explain why the job sucks now, as opposed to how it was a proud profession prior to BLM?

No one was anrguing about the job being some highly respected profession held in high esteem but thank you for the tangent. The job has always sucked. It’s always been low pay with a chance of dying and getting shot at. The fact the job sucks is magnified now because a lot of people have realized that cops aren’t infallible and there are a lot of bad ones out there who make not only bad decisions, but horrible life threatening decisions and escalate things that don’t need to be escalated. Due to that, the good ones’ jobs have been made more difficult and just say f it I’m done. That, combined with low pay, and chance of dying or getting shot at = job suckage.


You clearly have a narrative you are trying to push with opinionated feelings and maybes with zero proof and I’m not interested in following you down some narrative wormhole.

You tried to push the nyc crime narrative with zero proof and got it handed to you and now you’re moving on to something else. I’m disinterested, you don’t want to debate, you just want lou or one of your extremist buddies on here to say you’re right, so you can feel better.

[Xuperman]

You clearly have a narrative you are trying to push with opinionated feelings and maybes with zero proof and I’m not interested in following you down some narrative wormhole.

I don't know what the hell your talking about. Your calling this ZERO proof?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-nypd-needs-more-cops-after-years-of-officers-exiting-mayor-adams/ar-AA1ijdSm

You're a complete nut.

[XU_Lou]

I don't know what the hell your talking about. Your calling this ZERO proof?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-nypd-needs-more-cops-after-years-of-officers-exiting-mayor-adams/ar-AA1ijdSm

You're a complete nut.

He got his ass whooped again, and he can't admit it.

You, MID and others have pointed out hard statistics, but since Rachel Madcow doesn't talk about it, it's not a problem in Ville's little cocoon. He can't admit that the Democrats have completely fucked our police and judicial system.

Cause and effect is a thought process beyond his capabilities....

He owes you an apology.

[paulxu]

He got his ass whooped again, and he can't admit it.

You, MID and others have pointed out hard statistics, but since Rachel Madcow doesn't talk about it, it's not a problem in Ville's little cocoon. He can't admit that the Democrats have completely fucked our police and judicial system.

Cause and effect is a thought process beyond his capabilities....

He owes you an apology.

Democrats completely fucking our police.


https://x.com/i/status/1801234056002019455

[Xville]

He got his ass whooped again, and he can't admit it.

You, MID and others have pointed out hard statistics, but since Rachel Madcow doesn't talk about it, it's not a problem in Ville's little cocoon. He can't admit that the Democrats have completely fucked our police and judicial system.

Cause and effect is a thought process beyond his capabilities....

He owes you an apology.

lol you’re such a dork. Show me again where I talked about 2023 in nyc, Lou? You make shit up in your own head.

Where are all these hard core stats you and mid have brought to the table? lol. I am the one who has brought the stats looney lou. Go crawl back to your hole.

[Xville]

I don't know what the hell your talking about. Your calling this ZERO proof?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-nypd-needs-more-cops-after-years-of-officers-exiting-mayor-adams/ar-AA1ijdSm

You're a complete nut.

No. Is it a fact that police have resigned and/or retired? Yeah. Where we disagree apparently is the why. You have a narrative because you like to blame one side for everything just like looney lou, I don’t.

Bad police have fucked up the profession, extremists have fucked up the profession. The job has always sucked, it just sucks more now.

[XU_Lou]

Hey Ville, I know you're pretty slow-witted (after all, you're literally the last person in America to realize Nikki Haley is a war-mongering whore, or the FBI's crime stats are totally bogus), but is it possible for you to comment without having to edit yourself all the time?




I’m reminded of an old adage as well:

Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

I know it’s not this simple and I don’t know the particulars of this case, because frankly I don’t care. However, isn’t it funny that if the guy you like is convicted, he’s wrongly convicted and if the guy you like doesn’t win an election, the election is questioned?

Maybe it’s time for all of us to come together and frankly say enough… trump and his clown supporters need to take their ball and go home and while you’re at, take the old senile can’t complete a sentence president with you.

I thought this was just a trend, but actually it's the rule with you. As you just admitted here, don't know shit, but your pompous ass feels the need to opine on every single topic that comes up on this board - as if you're some type of unbiased expert. Didn't someone tell you to "read more, comment less"?

[Xville]

Hey Ville, I know you're pretty slow-witted (after all, you're literally the last person in America to realize Nikki Haley is a war-mongering whore, or the FBI's crime stats are totally bogus), but is it possible for you to comment without having to edit yourself all the time?





I thought this was just a trend, but actually it's the rule with you. As you just admitted here, don't know shit, but your pompous ass feels the need to opine on every single topic that comes up on this board - as if you're some type of unbiased expert. Didn't someone tell you to "read more, comment less"?

And yet, you’re one of the people that go 6 to midnight on anything trump, and will gladly vote for him. You, and your kind are part of the problem.

[Xville]

Hey Lou! How about those 2023 NYC crime stats? Did you see where I said anything about them yet?

[bobbiemcgee]

trump sez Milwaukee is a "horrible city". Way to piss off 500k voters.

[paulxu]

All the supposed law and order types should be happy...bump stocks are back.

[xuphan]

All the supposed law and order types should be happy...bump stocks are back.

Party at the NRA!

[bobbiemcgee]

Clarence Thomas was raised in the "Harlan Crow" era.

[bjf123]

All the supposed law and order types should be happy...bump stocks are back.

From what I’ve read, which is not the full decision, they ruled correctly. The ATF banned them for turning rifles into machine guns, though machine guns are apparently defined as weapons where one trigger pull results in multiple rounds fired. That’s not what a bump stock does, so the ban needed to go.

Do I think anyone needs to own a bump stock? Not really. The answer is to change the law / regulation, not rely on the SCOTUS to make a wrong ruling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smails]

From what I’ve read, which is not the full decision, they ruled correctly. The ATF banned them for turning rifles into machine guns, though machine guns are apparently defined as weapons where one trigger pull results in multiple rounds fired. That’s not what a bump stock does, so the ban needed to go.

Do I think anyone needs to own a bump stock? Not really. The answer is to change the law / regulation, not rely on the SCOTUS to make a wrong ruling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How dare you show the logic of the ruling! It gets in the way of slow witted jabs and ignorant narratives....be better

[paulxu]

How dare you show the logic of the ruling! It gets in the way of slow witted jabs and ignorant narratives....be better

Well, that explains why Trump signed the ban I guess.

[GoMuskies]

Shit, you must be thrilled then. If Trump was for it, you must be against it.

[Smails]

Well, that explains why Trump signed the ban I guess.

Totally. I thought it was dumb when it happened and he caved to public outcry. See how that works, Paul? It's okay to criticize someone in the party you support. It's a level of emotional and intellectual maturity that I reached in my 30's.

[bobbiemcgee]

Totally. I thought it was dumb when it happened and he caved .

58 people in Vegas would disagree.

[paulxu]

I'm happy he signed it. No need for anyone to own anything like that.
Rifles, shotguns and hand guns should satisfy sport and protection.

I feel quite sure he didn't sign out of any feeling of commitment on the issue.
Like abortion, he was following which ever way the wind was blowing.
Like Bobbie note, Las Vegas was a strong wind.

[paulxu]

Totally. I thought it was dumb when it happened and he caved to public outcry. See how that works, Paul? It's okay to criticize someone in the party you support. It's a level of emotional and intellectual maturity that I reached in my 30's.

If you support bump stocks, you emotional and intellectual "maturity" need a lot of work.

[GoMuskies]

Can you ackowledge that it is POSSIBLE (not saying it is necessarily true in this case) that all 9 justices could oppose bump stocks and the Court STILL may have made the correct decision here?

Just like I'm sure all the Justices were against Nazis but still correctly decided Skokie.

[bobbiemcgee]

This SCOTUS is farther right than trump and mtg.

[GoMuskies]

I don't like Trump, but his SC is the gift that keeps on giving. I do enjoy that fruit of his administration.

[paulxu]

Can you ackowledge that it is POSSIBLE (not saying it is necessarily true in this case) that all 9 justices could oppose bump stocks and the Court STILL may have made the correct decision here?

Just like I'm sure all the Justices were against Nazis but still correctly decided Skokie.

Sure, and unhappy our dysfunctional legislatures couldn't write reasonable gun control laws where the executive action wasn't necessary.
That would have solved the whole damn thing.

[GoMuskies]

I agree. I have no idea, honestly, if the case was correctly decided. I DO wish bump stocks were outlawed.

[bobbiemcgee]

I don't like Trump, but his SC is the gift that keeps on giving. I do enjoy that fruit of his administration.

More like fruit loops.

[Muskie in dayton]

More like fruit loops.
Why do you hate our constitution?

[bobbiemcgee]

Not me, trump sez he wants to suspend it..Try to keep up.

[Muskie in dayton]

Not me, trump sez he wants to suspend it..Try to keep up.
No he didn’t.

Why did the 3 liberal Justices vote against the Constitution?

[Xville]

No he didn’t.

Why did the 3 liberal Justices vote against the Constitution?

Please cite in the constitution where it mentions bump stocks.

[bobbiemcgee]

No he didn’t.

Why did the 3 liberal Justices vote against the Constitution?

In 2022, trump suggested that "alll rules, even those in the constitution, be terminated"

[paulxu]

Sycophants applauding:

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1801612280850706432/Dl0iQ6Xz?format=jpg&name=900x900

CEO's commenting:


Key Points

Former President Donald Trump failed to impress everyone in a room full of top CEOs this week, multiple attendees told CNBC.

“Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” said one CEO who was in the room.

Several CEOs “said that [Trump] was remarkably meandering, could not keep a straight thought [and] was all over the map,” Andrew Ross Sorkin, co-host of CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” reported.

[GoMuskies]

That would be pretty damning if the other choice wasn't, you know, Joe Biden.

[Muskie in dayton]

In 2022, trump suggested that "alll rules, even those in the constitution, be terminated"
No he didn’t. And you didn’t answer my question.

[Muskie in dayton]

Happy Father’s Day to all who it applies.

And seems like a good time to remind everyone that incentivizing strong family structure including father’s participation would go a long way to solve poverty. However, Democrat policy promotes the opposite.

Why do the Dems hate family? Because it keeps the poor dependent on their government.

[paulxu]

In 2022, trump suggested that "alll rules, even those in the constitution, be terminated"


No he didn’t. And you didn’t answer my question.

Trump on Truth (?) Social


“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

Yes he did. Why do you hate the Truth so much?

[Smails]

If you support bump stocks, you emotional and intellectual "maturity" need a lot of work.

I don't support bump stocks ( I think they are useless), but I'm smart enough to tell when something is poorly written and should be overturned. Try to look at things objectively and not through the lens of outrage and emotion. Check out some books on EQ.

[paulxu]

I noted that I understood how the court could rule as it did, and that the legislature should write good legislation, and not depend on Trump’s executive order.

[bobbiemcgee]

Confusing: They loved the bump stock rule 5 yrs. ago, now they hate it.

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-cheer-end-donald-trump-policy-1913155

[xubrew]

Trump is going to win, largely because of how stupid the Democrats are. He will have a platform that's mostly motivated by revenge. That's not a good thing.

Anyway, carry on...

[bjf123]

Trump is going to win, largely because of how stupid the Democrats are. He will have a platform that's mostly motivated by revenge. That's not a good thing.

Anyway, carry on...

While I hope he does, I just don’t see Trump winning. I also don’t think Biden will be the Democratic candidate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

While I hope he does, I just don’t see Trump winning. I also don’t think Biden will be the Democratic candidate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see Biden winning, and if you were to collectively combine all of the intelligence that exists amongst the leadership of the Democratic Party I think it would be less than the brain power of what a hamster has. They won't choose another candidate. They should, but they won't.

[Leghorn]

Not trying to be sarcastic, but aren't the primaries selecting the candidate and not the leadership of the Democratic party?

[Muskie in dayton]

Trump on Truth (?) Social


Yes he did. Why do you hate the Truth so much?

Gotcha. You are duped by your leftist media friends hoax (again). Where did you lift that? CNN? Vox? Here is the full post:
”So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great “Founders” did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

Exactly like the “fine people”, “bloodbath”, and “animals” hoaxes. Plus many other.

Why do you hate the truth so much?

Just wait until you find out all the other truths that leftists have covered up.