Politics Thread

[Xville]

I think its an awful bill. I'm all for legal entry but There should be zero undocumented crossings (I know unrealistic) but we are going to allow 5k a day or 1.8m a year?! Also, I don't understand why Ukraine has to be tied to this bill. 62billion?? So far we have given them 74billion and we want to almost double that on this bill alone

I think the number is high, but it is much lower than what has been occurring (I know not exactly a ringing endorsement.) However, again that doesn't mean 5k are going to enter and stay. A significant amount are going to be turned right back around and sent home.

Regarding Ukraine, I'm not going to pretend the foreign policy ins and outs here. However, what I do know is that China and Iran are watching, and Putin is a despicable human being. If giving money, keeps the US out of war, then there are worse things that our government spends money on.

[XU_Lou]

Two things:

* Lankford is now a proven liar

* Ville got hoodwinked by RINOs, again


From the bill itself:

Creates Sec. 244B of the Immigration and Nationality Act which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security new emergency authority to respond to extraordinary migration circumstances. The “border emergency authority” may be exercised if the 7-day average number of cumulative encounters of inadmissible aliens is between 4,000 and 5,000 per day and must be exercised if the 7-day average is above 5,000 per day. Exercise of the authority is also required if the number of encounters on a single day exceeds 8,500. Unaccompanied minors from non-contiguous countries are not included in the total number of encounters for the purposes of this section


https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/emergency_national_security_supplemental_section-by-section.pdf

[Xville]

Two things:

* Lankford is now a proven liar

* Ville got hoodwinked by RINOs, again


From the bill itself:

Creates Sec. 244B of the Immigration and Nationality Act which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security new emergency authority to respond to extraordinary migration circumstances. The “border emergency authority” may be exercised if the 7-day average number of cumulative encounters of inadmissible aliens is between 4,000 and 5,000 per day and must be exercised if the 7-day average is above 5,000 per day. Exercise of the authority is also required if the number of encounters on a single day exceeds 8,500. Unaccompanied minors from non-contiguous countries are not included in the total number of encounters for the purposes of this section


https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/emergency_national_security_supplemental_section-by-section.pdf

This will be good. What did Lankford lie about? You think that 5,000 number is just being led in with open arms and are allowed to move about the country dontcha? Lol.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4448612-lankford-defends-border-bill/

https://www.newsweek.com/senate-border-security-bill-aid-1866774

[xuwillie]

I think the number is high, but it is much lower than what has been occurring (I know not exactly a ringing endorsement.) However, again that doesn't mean 5k are going to enter and stay. A significant amount are going to be turned right back around
Regarding Ukraine, I'm not going to pretend the foreign policy ins and outs here. However, what I do know is that China and Iran are watching, and Putin is a despicable human being. If giving money, keeps the US out of war, then there are worse things that our government spends money on.

That makes sense and sounds like we are flying back illegals now. But what do we do when Taiwan is invaded? They’ll need a lot of help also. We can’t be the only country helping everyone. Just look at the Ukraine aid numbers. Closest other county giving aid is Germany at 21b total.

[Xville]

That makes sense and sounds like we are flying back illegals now. But what do we do when Taiwan is invaded? They’ll need a lot of help also. We can’t be the only country helping everyone. Just look at the Ukraine aid numbers. Closest other county giving aid is Germany at 21b total.

I hear ya. The amount of money this is taking is pretty astronomical and as you and I know, we have our own domestic problems. It does beg the question of where/when is the end? Russia, China and Iran are all major problems.

[XU_Lou]

This will be good. What did Lankford lie about? You think that 5,000 number is just being led in with open arms and are allowed to move about the country dontcha? Lol.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4448612-lankford-defends-border-bill/

https://www.newsweek.com/senate-border-security-bill-aid-1866774

Are you really that naive?

In your own article your boy Lankford is bragging that the bill drops the numbers of illegals flowing over the border from 10K to 5K per day. What sane person would think this is a positive, or a good compromise?

What will change on the ground (in reality) if this bill is passed, other than the number per day? And do you really think someone like Biden would abide by those numbers - let alone accurately tally them?


"You think that 5,000 number is just being led in with open arms and are allowed to move about the country dontcha?"

Uh, yes.

Blue states and cities continue to provide financial incentives for illegals to come to the US. Prosecution of crimes such as DUIs, beating up cops, or faking social security numbers to gain access to free healthcare aren't pursued. Once in the country, they're free to move about while they wait for their court hearings. Then, years later when the court hearing date arrives, only a tiny percentage of illegals actually show up.


Moreover, this bill could make things worse: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1754315351855100084.html?utm_campaign=topunroll

[Xville]

Are you really that naive?

In your own article your boy Lankford is bragging that the bill drops the numbers of illegals flowing over the border from 10K to 5K per day. What sane person would think this is a positive, or a good compromise?

What will change on the ground (in reality) if this bill is passed, other than the number per day? And do you really think someone like Biden would abide by those numbers - let alone accurately tally them?


"You think that 5,000 number is just being led in with open arms and are allowed to move about the country dontcha?"

Uh, yes.

Blue states and cities continue to provide financial incentives for illegals to come to the US. Prosecution of crimes such as DUIs, beating up cops, or faking social security numbers to gain access to free healthcare aren't pursued. Once in the country, they're free to move about while they wait for their court hearings. Then, years later when the court hearing date arrives, only a tiny percentage of illegals actually show up.


Moreover, this bill could make things worse: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1754315351855100084.html?utm_campaign=topunroll

this bill changes that. If you choose to Ted Cruz everything that's fine. I'm well aware you're not a serious debater and just throw out fringe right talking points as your "evidence."

The asylum process would be completely overhauled as I indicated and so would the deportation process. I guess you chose to ignore that since it's not part of your vernacular.

Moving on.

So again, where did Lankford lie?

[XU_Lou]

So again, where did Lankford lie?

OMG, you can't be serious? We're already at the point where you begin to play your games of denying facts and what's been said?



For those who want to make shit up ( like Cruz and trump). Here’s the truth from one of the actual writers of the legislation:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gop-senator-flat-out-accuses-his-republican-colleagues-of-tanking-border-deal-because-its-a-presidential-election-year/

From your own link:

“Right now these internet rumors is all the people are running on,” Lankford said. It would be absolutely absurd for me to agree to 5,000 people a day. This bill focuses on getting us to zero illegal crossings a day. There’s no amnesty. It increases the number of border patrol agents, increases asylum officers. It increases detention beds so we can quickly detain and then deport individuals. It ends catch and release. It focuses on additional deportation flights out. It changes our asylum process so that people get a fast asylum screening at a higher standard, and then get returned back to their home country. This is not about letting 5,000 people in a day. This is the most misunderstood section of this proposal.”



Two things:

* Lankford is now a proven liar

* Ville got hoodwinked by RINOs, again


From the bill itself:

Creates Sec. 244B of the Immigration and Nationality Act which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security new emergency authority to respond to extraordinary migration circumstances. The “border emergency authority” may be exercised if the 7-day average number of cumulative encounters of inadmissible aliens is between 4,000 and 5,000 per day and must be exercised if the 7-day average is above 5,000 per day. Exercise of the authority is also required if the number of encounters on a single day exceeds 8,500. Unaccompanied minors from non-contiguous countries are not included in the total number of encounters for the purposes of this section


https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/emergency_national_security_supplemental_section-by-section.pdf

[Xville]

OMG, you can't be serious? We're already at the point where you begin to play your games of denying facts and what's been said?




From your own link:

“Right now these internet rumors is all the people are running on,” Lankford said. It would be absolutely absurd for me to agree to 5,000 people a day. This bill focuses on getting us to zero illegal crossings a day. There’s no amnesty. It increases the number of border patrol agents, increases asylum officers. It increases detention beds so we can quickly detain and then deport individuals. It ends catch and release. It focuses on additional deportation flights out. It changes our asylum process so that people get a fast asylum screening at a higher standard, and then get returned back to their home country. This is not about letting 5,000 people in a day. This is the most misunderstood section of this proposal.”

So nothing he said there is a lie. 5,000 are not going to be entering the country per day. A significant number will be turned right back around and deported. Another section will be held in camps. If you can't understand all of that, you don't understand what happens at the border and I can't help you.

[XU_Lou]

The asylum process would be completely overhauled as I indicated and so would the deportation process. I guess you chose to ignore that since it's not part of your vernacular.


No, actually you did none of the above.

Actually, you're regurgitating fringe left talking points as your "evidence."

Show me in the bill - not some leftwing fringe website you're now in the habit of quoting - where it proves what you said.

Show me where it says that when those 4999 people per day come over the border in between ports of entry that they will be denied access to the country, or will be deported immediately after being found wandering within our borders.

[Xville]

No, actually you did none of the above.

Actually, you're regurgitating fringe left talking points as your "evidence."

Show me in the bill - not some leftwing fringe website you're now in the habit of quoting - where it proves what you said.

Show me where it says that when those 4999 people per day come over the border in between ports of entry that they will be denied access to the country, or will be deported immediately after being found wandering within our borders.

ok so you don't understand how the border works. That's fine, just stop talking out your ass.

you still don't understand the 5k a day number. It is encounters, not crossings. You have a very serious reading comprehension problem. First, a few days ago you link to an article all mad about the potential bill which turned out to be something from 4 years ago, and now this.

Next

[bobbiemcgee]

Face it. This is a republican bill proposed by Republicans. Should end years of bitching but the,Orange man needs it be an issue.

[XU_Lou]

From the Center for Immigration Studies:

Senate negotiators have finally released the text of a “deal” they’ve been hashing out for two months to trade $61 billion in foreign aid to Ukraine for border “reforms”. There’s some good in that bill and a lot of bad — much of it so expertly written that it would take thousands of words to explain why it’s bad. Here’s a brief taste.

Doesn’t Close the Loopholes. Anyone familiar with the border crises that have confronted not only President Biden, but also presidents Trump and Obama, understands that there are three loopholes that smugglers have exploited for over a decade: an exception for the quick removal of unaccompanied alien children (UACs) from non-contiguous countries in a poorly thought-out 2008 bill; a 20-day release requirement for adults who enter illegally with children in “family units” (FMUs), the product of a poorly though-out 2015 district court decision; and the low “credible fear” standard for border migrants seeking asylum.

This bill not only does little to close the second and third loopholes, it actually makes the first worse. It increases the perverse incentives that encourage parents to entrust their children with rapacious smugglers to begin with by ensuring that the ones aged 13 and younger receive free, taxpayer-funded legal counsel (sec. 3512).

Family Units and Credible Fear. The FMU issue and the credible-fear loophole are tied together to a degree in the bill, starting with section 3141, which would add a new section 235B to the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and create something called “Provisional Noncustodial Removal Proceedings” (PNRP).

That section would allow the DHS secretary — based only on undefined “operational circumstances” — to send migrants to PNRP if they express a fear of persecution or request asylum. Those are the exact same triggers for credible fear interviews in the current section 235(b)(1) of the INA for aliens at the borders and the ports who have either fraudulent admission documents or no documents at all (including illegal migrants).

Unlike section 235(b)(1) of the INA — which mandates detention for illegal migrants who are subject to expedited removal, including those found to have valid credible fear claims — that PNRP process under proposed section 235B of the INA mandates release. Not “authorizes” release — mandates it.

Release for the adults in PNRPs would be premised on those aliens being placed on “alternatives to detention” (ATD), but even that rule is not absolute. Only the adult head of a household released under PNRP is subject to ATD, not other adults and not the children. That ATD is a costly failure that does nothing to ensure that aliens appear for removal has been seemingly ignored.

In any event, once those aliens are released from custody under PNRP, they’re expected to appear within 90 days at a “protection determination interview” (PDI). There is a load of protections for the alien in that process — including the right to counsel and a provision barring that interview from occurring at an ICE office — and none for the American people or the rule of law.

At that PDI, the asylum officer may decide whether the alien should be granted asylum or another form of humanitarian relief (withholding of removal —“statutory withholding” — under section 241(b)(3) of the INA or protection under CAT — the “Convention Against Torture”).

That essentially combines the current credible fear interview process under section 235(b)(1) of the INA with the asylum adjudication process into one — without any of the protections immigration courts offer to ensure that bogus or fraudulent claims don’t result in asylum grants.


https://cis.org/Arthur/Good-and-Lot-Bad-Senate-Border-Deal

[XU_Lou]

From the Federation for American Immigration Reform:


The long-awaited ‘border security’ agreement negotiated by the Senate Working Group would bring neither border security nor relief from the unprecedented wave of illegal immigration that began the day President Biden took office, charged the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). Rather, the proposal would ratify ongoing illegal immigration at historically high levels.

“The Senate plan does nothing to end the incentives to illegally immigrate to the United States that have resulted in some 10 million people crossing our borders illegally over the past three years. The proposal does not stop mass catch-and-release or end asylum abuse. Instead, it actually codifies a process to automatically release anyone claiming asylum, encouraging more abuse of the system. In addition, the immigration package does nothing to limit the parole authority that has been abused by Secretary Mayorkas, and in fact allows the illegal parole programs and the CBP One App scheme to continue unabated.

“The Working Group plan would actually codify the acceptance of staggering levels of illegal immigration that exceed the number of legal immigrants we admit each year. DHS’s authority to expel people entering the country illegally, which was touted as revolutionary, is actually discretionary and sunsets after three years. The border will remain open, despite what the working group says, and this bill declares that 4,000 or 5,000 encounters a day is acceptable. The Senate plan would sanction illegal immigration levels of up to 1,825,000 a year – which is beyond crisis levels.

“Worse yet, the Senate plan further incentivizes illegal immigration by granting asylum-seekers work permits nearly immediately, allowing certain aliens who have been paroled to gain citizenship, increasing green card numbers and providing taxpayer funding for legal counsel for illegal aliens.

“The bill fails at every level and is a massive giveaway to illegal aliens, which was completely predictable given that they negotiated with the Secretary who willfully and knowingly created this border crisis.”

Additionally, the Senate proposal:

* Incentivizes more asylum abuse by near-immediate issuance of work permits to ‘asylum-seekers,’ rather than requiring them to wait and ensure that their claims are not frivolous.

* Relaxes work permits for those claiming asylum and extends their validity to two years.

* Codifies the Biden Administration asylum rule allowing asylum officers – instead of immigration judges – to decide the merits of asylum cases.

* Allows those denied asylum to appeal their decision over and over, even creating new bureaucratic processes to ensure they are not removed in a timely manner.

* Provides taxpayer-funded legal representation to unaccompanied minors.

* Appropriates $2.3 billion for refugee programs (primarily for illegal aliens arriving from Cuba and Haiti), $850 million for State to address humanitarian needs in Central and South America, $415 million to address irregular migration and provide funds to foreign countries to receive and integrate their illegal aliens, and nearly $4 billion for USCIS, including half a billion dollars for facilities.

* Directs $1.4 billion to the Shelter and Services Program (SSP), which awards grants to nongovernmental organizations that facilitate illegal immigration.

* Prohibits protection determinations of illegal aliens in ICE and CBP facilities, forcing USCIS to construct new facilities to carry out its new duties, thus delaying the effective date of the new policies.

* Provides a path to citizenship for those illegally paroled in from Afghanistan while not ending the ability of the Secretary to repeat the abuse in the future.

* Requires USCIS officers that deny a protection claim to also provide the alien with options on departing the United States.

* Requires the Secretary to issue reports on parole – rather than reining in his abuse – requirements which he has clearly ignored the last three years.

* Contains provisions that have nothing to do with securing our border, such as adding 50,000 new green cards per year for five years and granting work authorization to the spouses and children of H-1B workers.

“The Senate plan is nothing more than a capitulation to mass illegal immigration, rather than a credible plan to regain control of our borders and immigration system,” Stein charged. “We urge the full Senate to reject the Working Group’s proposal and the House to remain steadfast in its insistence that aid to our allies, in their efforts to protect their security, be contingent on real policy changes to secure our own borders and protect the security of the United States,” Stein concluded.

https://www.fairus.org/fair-senate-immigration-package-not-credible-or-serious-solution-biden-border-crisis

[Xville]

Quoting white supremacist anti immigration hate groups founded by John tanton. That’s a new one

A normal person would be embarrassed by continuing to be proven wrong over and over, but not you. You are “resilient” that’s for sure.

[XU_Lou]

Congressman Byron Donalds: The Senate deal is TERRIBLE:

1–Codifies Catch & Release
2–Lets in 1.8M Illegals
3–Funds Sanctuary Cities
4–Funds NGOs Moving Illegals
5–Taxpayer-Funded Lawyers to Illegals
6–Work Permits to Illegals
7–Nothing To Deport Illegals
8–No Immediate Wall Funds
9–Weaker Asylum Screening


Sen J.D. Vance: "Granting Mayorkas the ability to grant asylum claims without going through immigration court is perhaps the worst provision of the bill."


Sen Mike Lee: "Here are a “dirty dozen” of disasters I’ve found in this terrible border bill… and this is just the beginning": https://twitter.com/SenMikeLee/status/1754614493483515974/photo/1


Sen Tom Cotton: "I’ve reviewed the bill, I don’t think it will solve our border crisis, and might make it worse. I will oppose it. Joe Biden created this crisis by design. He can and should reverse his open border policies today. Here are a few of my concerns: https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1754546276660588752


Rep. Mark Green, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said in a written statement Sunday night that he “will vehemently oppose any agreement that legitimizes or normalizes any level of illegal immigration.”


Sen. Steve Daines, R-Mont., chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, said he “can’t support a bill that doesn’t secure the border, provides taxpayer-funded lawyers to illegal immigrants, and gives billions to radical open borders groups.” “I’m a no,” Daines added.


U.S. Rep. Dale Strong (R-Huntsville) believes the legislation will not actually solve the current crisis. “After reviewing the 370 pages released by the Senate, I am concerned that the emergency authorities are so riddled with exceptions, loopholes, and waivers that it will not meaningfully improve our border crisis,” Strong said in a statement. “For example, the bill creates a new ‘Border Emergency Authority,’ but only allows the President to use it for under nine months of the year, and only after at least 4,000 illegal aliens cross in a day. I don’t believe that the Senate proposal even represents incremental progress.”


U.S. Rep. Jerry Carl (R-Mobile): “The Senate ‘border bill’ allows 5,000 immigrants a day into our country…and that’s just the beginning,” Carl said. “This bill does nothing but reward illegal immigration into the U.S. We need to finish the wall and end the border crisis. The Senate MUST pass HR 2.”


Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Ariz., called the bill “the worst idea on border ‘security’— EVER” and “a disaster.”

[paulxu]

The US Border Patrol union endorsed the bi-partisan bill.

Meanwhile, another example of this continues:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcREibYt70jxoOtkScMc-9OBTLfFGc73OYlg&usqp=CAU

[xuphan]

Congressman Byron Donalds: The Senate deal is TERRIBLE:

1–Codifies Catch & Release
2–Lets in 1.8M Illegals
3–Funds Sanctuary Cities
4–Funds NGOs Moving Illegals
5–Taxpayer-Funded Lawyers to Illegals
6–Work Permits to Illegals
7–Nothing To Deport Illegals
8–No Immediate Wall Funds
9–Weaker Asylum Screening


Sen J.D. Vance: "Granting Mayorkas the ability to grant asylum claims without going through immigration court is perhaps the worst provision of the bill."


Sen Mike Lee: "Here are a “dirty dozen” of disasters I’ve found in this terrible border bill… and this is just the beginning": https://twitter.com/SenMikeLee/status/1754614493483515974/photo/1


Sen Tom Cotton: "I’ve reviewed the bill, I don’t think it will solve our border crisis, and might make it worse. I will oppose it. Joe Biden created this crisis by design. He can and should reverse his open border policies today. Here are a few of my concerns: https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1754546276660588752


Rep. Mark Green, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said in a written statement Sunday night that he “will vehemently oppose any agreement that legitimizes or normalizes any level of illegal immigration.”


Sen. Steve Daines, R-Mont., chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, said he “can’t support a bill that doesn’t secure the border, provides taxpayer-funded lawyers to illegal immigrants, and gives billions to radical open borders groups.” “I’m a no,” Daines added.


U.S. Rep. Dale Strong (R-Huntsville) believes the legislation will not actually solve the current crisis. “After reviewing the 370 pages released by the Senate, I am concerned that the emergency authorities are so riddled with exceptions, loopholes, and waivers that it will not meaningfully improve our border crisis,” Strong said in a statement. “For example, the bill creates a new ‘Border Emergency Authority,’ but only allows the President to use it for under nine months of the year, and only after at least 4,000 illegal aliens cross in a day. I don’t believe that the Senate proposal even represents incremental progress.”


U.S. Rep. Jerry Carl (R-Mobile): “The Senate ‘border bill’ allows 5,000 immigrants a day into our country…and that’s just the beginning,” Carl said. “This bill does nothing but reward illegal immigration into the U.S. We need to finish the wall and end the border crisis. The Senate MUST pass HR 2.”


Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Ariz., called the bill “the worst idea on border ‘security’— EVER” and “a disaster.”

Had to laugh on this one. Is he saying this bill drafted by both democrats and republicans is worse than the current state of affairs on the border?

In all seriousness, if people cross the border, they should be detained and deported back to their country. Crossing illegally should be met with strong and swift action. Not sure why this is so difficult for these politicians to understand. Put the funding and enforcement in place to fix this problem moving forward. I agree that there are to many loopholes and added language within this proposed bill that are not needed and won’t fix the border.

[Xville]

So Lou where did lankford lie again? Do you need a dictionary to understand the difference between crossing and encounter? I could send you one free of charge since you must be in dire financial shape.

[Xville]

Found this to be quite comical. It's clear she hadn't read one part of it. Guessing that's the case with most of the MAGA crew.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/it-s-exactly-the-opposite-fox-host-shuts-down-nancy-mace-for-border-bill-lies/ar-BB1hPaa4?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=423f64d0d0bc41b4b995c1fa5ead9cfa&ei=11

[XU_Lou]

Had to laugh on this one. Is he saying this bill drafted by both democrats and republicans is worse than the current state of affairs on the border?

In all seriousness, if people cross the border, they should be detained and deported back to their country. Crossing illegally should be met with strong and swift action. Not sure why this is so difficult for these politicians to understand. Put the funding and enforcement in place to fix this problem moving forward. I agree that there are to many loopholes and added language within this proposed bill that are not needed and won’t fix the border.

1) The truth of the matter is that they're allowing this to happen on purpose. And I think we all know why.

2) This so-called border bill isn't needed - the president already has the power to shut down illegal entries. Biden has chosen not to enforce any of the laws on the book.

3) Moreover, since Biden won't enforce the current laws, why in the hell would anyone think that he would abide by or enforce a new set of laws?

[XU_Lou]

Watch and learn, instead of screaming nonsense you have no idea what you're talking about:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMqwWOn0I_U

[Xville]

Pesky facts allude Lou. When are you going to learn that just because Trump says it, doesn't make it true?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/05/us/politics/biden-limits-border-shutdown.html

[Xville]

Watch and learn, instead of screaming nonsense you have no idea what you're talking about:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMqwWOn0I_U

So Ingraham doesn't understand the 5k number either. Now it makes sense that you don't.

[GoMuskies]

XVille - paywall

Lou - If someone came here and posted a Rachel Maddow video, do you think there's any chance it would ever persuade you? I'm pretty sure the people you're tring to convince are going to have the same issue with Laura Ingraham that I'm guessing you'd have with Maddow.

[Xville]

XVille - paywall

Lou - If someone came here and posted a Rachel Maddow video, do you think there's any chance it would ever persuade you? I'm pretty sure the people you're tring to convince are going to have the same issue with Laura Ingraham that I'm guessing you'd have with Maddow.

This article isn't as good, but it highlights some points:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/01/31/why-biden-cant-easily-shut-down-the-border-as-both-he-and-trump-have-suggested/?sh=65bda47b4d27

[GoMuskies]

This article isn't as good, but it highlights some points:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/01/31/why-biden-cant-easily-shut-down-the-border-as-both-he-and-trump-have-suggested/?sh=65bda47b4d27

This linked article is about Israel/Hamas.

[Xville]

This linked article is about Israel/Hamas.

Changed

[GoMuskies]

From your article. It seems like Trump is taking a HUGE risk on this dynamic with his stance here. Could pay off big for him, or it could completely blow up in his face. But it's clearly political as opposed to actually trying to solve a problem.

BIG NUMBER
52%. That’s the share of voters who trust Trump more than Biden (30%) to handle immigration, according to a Bloomberg-Morning Consult poll released Wednesday. The survey found 59% of voters rate immigration as a “very important” issue in the presidential election.

[GoMuskies]

We are officially less than 9 months from election day, by the way.

[paulxu]

Much the same way as 2016 when Muslims were the fear factor driving the GOP's outreach for voters, this year the fear factor is immigration at the southern border.

It's all about ginning up votes, not reasonable approaches to try and handle a very difficult situation.
Compounded now by adding funding for Ukraine and Israel.

The R's got what they wanted in the legislation, but then Trump decided for them that it was better to preserve the issue for November.
Meanwhile, Ukraine and Israel suffer. And the Border Patrol doesn't get the bill they endorsed.

I'm pretty sure the WSJ isn't liberal, and the headline of their editorial board's article says it all:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-border-security-bill-james-lankford-republicans-immigration-biden-border-patrol-asylum-bc2f9543

[Xville]

Let's also stop making stuff up like "Trump shut down and secured the border." It's factually false.

https://www.cato.org/blog/trumps-border-policies-let-more-immigrants-sneak

[Smails]

We are officially less than 9 months from election day, by the way.

That's great it starts with an earthquake..birds and snakes and airplanes...

[xubrew]

Trump is going to get convicted, and then he will win the election. The rest of the world will conclude that we have taken reality TV entirely too far.

[GoMuskies]

Trump is going to get convicted, and then he will win the election. The rest of the world will conclude that we have taken reality TV entirely too far.

Well, at least we get a Season 4 of Prison Break if that happens.

[STL_XUfan]

Well, at least we get a Season 4 of Prison Break if that happens.

They actually released a Season 4 and 5, plus a movie. They are bad, but they are out there if you need to kill time between now and the election.

[X-band '01]

Trump is going to get convicted, and then he will win the election. The rest of the world will conclude that we have taken reality TV entirely too far.

The major thing that happened today was the DC Court of Appeals flatly telling Trump that he can be prosecuted for crimes committed while he was President. I don't know how many more appeals he'll be able to squeeze out of this, especially if the Supreme Court decides not to step in. However, the DC court case is still paused while he tries to run out the clock on further appeals.

[X-band '01]

Edit that. The House failed to impeach Mayorkas. They couldn't even be bothered to hold a vote when their members were actually present.

Anyone else they should try impeaching next?

[xuphan]

The major thing that happened today was the DC Court of Appeals flatly telling Trump that he can be prosecuted for crimes committed while he was President. I don't know how many more appeals he'll be able to squeeze out of this, especially if the Supreme Court decides not to step in. However, the DC court case is still paused while he tries to run out the clock on further appeals.

Poor Trump. Trouble just seems to follow that guy everywhere he goes. Why won’t the libs just leave him alone. He’s innocent I tell ya. Poor guy has to ask for total immunity so the lefties will leave him alone. Please consider making a campaign donation to MAGA so Trump can pay off all these legal debts that continue to build up.

[paulxu]

So, Dems want an aid package for Ukraine and Israel.
Repubs say no aid package without border issues addressed.
McConnell tasks Lankford to get that done.
Lankford gets Dems to make all kinds of concessions to get a deal, getting what the Repubs want.
Dems agree so they can move forward.
Border Patrol supports.
Trump tells House to turn it down.
McConnell says it needs to pass. Trump calls McConnell.
McConnell changes his mind (within the space of an hour or so). Deal dies.
House trys to impeach Mayorkas (strange since the Repubs wanted changes and funding that would have helped him...until Trump intervened.)
House fails on impeachment vote. First one to fail since the 1860's.
Now Senate may try to get original Dem bill back to the table to fund Ukraine and Israel.

It's a circus. The Repubs are apparently incapable of governing.

[STL_XUfan]

The major thing that happened today was the DC Court of Appeals flatly telling Trump that he can be prosecuted for crimes committed while he was President. I don't know how many more appeals he'll be able to squeeze out of this, especially if the Supreme Court decides not to step in. However, the DC court case is still paused while he tries to run out the clock on further appeals.
There is no way the Supreme Court doesn’t grant writ. It is an important question that should be answered definitively, even if the answer is quite obvious. While I hope they give it an accelerated hearing, I doubt this court will.

[paulxu]

I wonder if they'll just let the Circuit Court ruling stand? It's possible.

It's been traditionally accepted that you can't try a president while in office for criminal acts, but civil you can (see Clinton).
And you are suppose to wait until he's out of office and then try him if the facts support a case.
Just like Mitch says:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5-lOAvnxfs

[Xville]

So, Dems want an aid package for Ukraine and Israel.
Repubs say no aid package without border issues addressed.
McConnell tasks Lankford to get that done.
Lankford gets Dems to make all kinds of concessions to get a deal, getting what the Repubs want.
Dems agree so they can move forward.
Border Patrol supports.
Trump tells House to turn it down.
McConnell says it needs to pass. Trump calls McConnell.
McConnell changes his mind (within the space of an hour or so). Deal dies.
House trys to impeach Mayorkas (strange since the Repubs wanted changes and funding that would have helped him...until Trump intervened.)
House fails on impeachment vote. First one to fail since the 1860's.
Now Senate may try to get original Dem bill back to the table to fund Ukraine and Israel.

It's a circus. The Repubs are apparently incapable of governing.

Unfortunately, Mitch doesn't have a spine anymore. After the comments Trump made about his wife, you'd have thought Mitch would have clocked him, but nope he bent the knee and kissed the ring.

[Xville]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-democrats-strike-fast-after-gop-s-border-deal-implosion/ar-BB1hVhWq?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=9f12075f707f4ffd8977ae5b9674c080&ei=11

Got to say the republicans could look really really stupid here. They already look kind of stupid, but if the Dem Senators are able to push the aid thru, the amount of stupid on the part of the republicans would take it to another level.

[XU_Lou]

How embarrassing it must be to keep hitching your wagon to losing horses. Taking that big fat L on that loser border bill, and then this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFul0FTWQAAQLLU.jpg

[Xville]

The loser in this is the American people. I thought there was a crisis at the border? Not much of a crisis if your lemming friends continue to let it go at minimum another 18 months.

You should be used to losing. Trump and his cronies have been doing it for 4 years now.

[paulxu]

Maybe it's time for another motion to vacate.

[bjf123]

Couple of questions. Wouldn’t the proposed bill codify into law (is that redundant?) that 5,000 illegal aliens crossing the border would be legal and allowed into the country subject to certain conditions? Isn’t the current law zero? Also, I think unaccompanied minors from Mexico and Canada don’t count towards the 5,000.

Didn’t Biden recently say he had just spoken with the late president of France who died almost 20 years ago? Where’s the media outcry? Whenever President Trump misspoke, there were psychologists and psychiatrists on the MSM talking about his mental capacity. Hypocritical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

Couple of questions. Wouldn’t the proposed bill codify into law (is that redundant?) that 5,000 illegal aliens crossing the border would be legal and allowed into the country subject to certain conditions? Isn’t the current law zero? Also, I think unaccompanied minors from Mexico and Canada don’t count towards the 5,000.

Didn’t Biden recently say he had just spoken with the late president of France who died almost 20 years ago? Where’s the media outcry? Whenever President Trump misspoke, there were psychologists and psychiatrists on the MSM talking about his mental capacity. Hypocritical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In regards to the bill, first, the 5k number is encounters not crossings; if they do "cross," I do not believe that means they are suddenly legal. Not sure where you are getting that information. They'd go thru the asylum process (which is what happens today) which would have been completely revamped and money funneled into it with more funding for detention camps, etc. Under US Immigration law, if you do get asylum, then yes you are considered legal. However, what this bill would have done is make it harder for asylum to be accepted.

Hopefully this is not behind a paywall. If it is, I can try to quote it. It does answer some questions:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/05/us/politics/border-deal-immigration.html

As far as Sleepy Joe. Yeah he's a dementia patient. Neither Biden nor Trump are fit to run, and we really need age limits.

[STL_XUfan]

Couple of questions. Wouldn’t the proposed bill codify into law (is that redundant?) that 5,000 illegal aliens crossing the border would be legal and allowed into the country subject to certain conditions? Isn’t the current law zero? Also, I think unaccompanied minors from Mexico and Canada don’t count towards the 5,000.

Under existing US law we have an absolute obligation to process asylum seekers. There is not currently a policy that allows the executive to shut down the border and not process those asylum seekers. This bill, as I understand it, would set a bench mark that if the daily encounter number averages over 5,000 the executive can then shutdown the border and stop processing the asylum seekers until the average drops below that number.

More importantly, it would provide funds to the Courts to speed up the time it takes for an asylum case to be heard, so those that don't qualify are quickly turned away instead of being permitted to remain until their claim is processed.

[Strange Brew]

Under existing US law we have an absolute obligation to process asylum seekers. There is not currently a policy that allows the executive to shut down the border and not process those asylum seekers. This bill, as I understand it, would set a bench mark that if the daily encounter number averages over 5,000 the executive can then shutdown the border and stop processing the asylum seeks until the average drops below that number.

More importantly, it would provide funds to the Courts to speed up the time it takes for an asylum case to be heard, so those that don't qualify are quickly turned away instead of being permitted to remain until their claim is processed.

True, however there are rules about whom qualifies for asylum and in which country that are not being enforced.

[bobbiemcgee]

Meanwhile Halley loses to Nobody 62 to 30.

[Smails]

True, however there are rules about whom qualifies for asylum and in which country that are not being enforced.

Admittedly have not read the bill hence I haven't rendered any type of opinion. Question to those who have: Does the bill require asylum seekers to go through an established port of entry, which I believe is a requirement today. Did it address those who cross illegally (no POE) and then claim asylum?

[STL_XUfan]

Admittedly have not read the bill hence I haven't rendered any type of opinion. Question to those who have: Does the bill require asylum seekers to go through an established port of entry, which I believe is a requirement today. Did it address those who cross illegally (no POE) and then claim asylum?

This is based on a report of the bill by NBC (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/new-immigration-asylum-reform-bill-released-senate-text-rcna136602), but it appears to address it:

"The bill would also end the practice of “catch and release.” If passed into law, the bill would allow migrants who come to the border through lawful ports of entry and families to enter the U.S. under federal supervision for 90 days while they complete asylum interviews. Those who pass would receive work permits as they await adjudication of their claims. Those who fail would be removed from the U.S. and repatriated to their home countries or to Mexico.
The bill would mandate detaining migrants who try to enter the U.S. outside of official ports of entry, pending any asylum claims. Those who fail would also be removed."

So migrants who request asylum at ports of entry would be permitted to stay for 90 days, while those caught at non-port of entries would be detained until their hearing.

[Strange Brew]

This is based on a report of the bill by NBC (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/new-immigration-asylum-reform-bill-released-senate-text-rcna136602), but it appears to address it:

"The bill would also end the practice of “catch and release.” If passed into law, the bill would allow migrants who come to the border through lawful ports of entry and families to enter the U.S. under federal supervision for 90 days while they complete asylum interviews. Those who pass would receive work permits as they await adjudication of their claims. Those who fail would be removed from the U.S. and repatriated to their home countries or to Mexico.
The bill would mandate detaining migrants who try to enter the U.S. outside of official ports of entry, pending any asylum claims. Those who fail would also be removed."

So migrants who request asylum at ports of entry would be permitted to stay for 90 days, while those caught at non-port of entries would be detained until their hearing.

Doesn’t matter. Bill died in the Senate.

[XU_Lou]

Under existing US law we have an absolute obligation to process asylum seekers. There is not currently a policy that allows the executive to shut down the border and not process those asylum seekers. This bill, as I understand it, would set a bench mark that if the daily encounter number averages over 5,000 the executive can then shutdown the border and stop processing the asylum seekers until the average drops below that number.

More importantly, it would provide funds to the Courts to speed up the time it takes for an asylum case to be heard, so those that don't qualify are quickly turned away instead of being permitted to remain until their claim is processed.

Therein lies the loophole - the type that RINOs always fall for. Claiming asylum is not an issue with someone like Biden or Mayorkas controlling the border.

It's called the “credible fear” standard.

Exceptions to Expedited Removal
An alien subject to expedited removal typically will be
ordered removed without further hearing or the ability to
contest a removal determination. Exceptions exist for
certain categories of aliens.

Credible Fear Determinations
An alien otherwise subject to expedited removal who
expresses an intent to apply for asylum or a fear of
persecution if returned to a particular country is entitled to
administrative review of that claim before being removed.
INA § 235(b)(1) instructs that the examining immigration
officer must refer the alien for an interview with an asylum
officer to determine whether the alien has a “credible fear”
of persecution or torture.

A credible fear determination is a screening process that
evaluates whether an alien might qualify for one of three
forms of relief from removal: asylum, withholding of
removal, and protection under the Convention Against
Torture (CAT). Asylum is the only form of relief that gives
the alien a permanent legal foothold in the United States.
The credible fear determination is not intended fully to
assess the alien’s claims, but only to determine whether
they are sufficiently viable to warrant more thorough
review.

An alien who shows a credible fear of persecution is placed
in formal removal proceedings rather than expedited
removal. There, the alien may pursue applications for
asylum, withholding of removal, and CAT protection.
If an asylum officer determines that an alien does not have
a credible fear of persecution, the alien may request review
of that determination before an IJ. If the IJ concurs with the
negative credible fear finding, the alien will be subject to
expedited removal. If the IJ finds that the alien has a
credible fear of persecution, the IJ will vacate the asylum
officer’s determination and the alien will be placed in
formal removal proceedings.


So who will oversee these cases? Judges appointed by Biden. What do you really think is going to happen?


https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11357#:~:text=Credible%20Fear%20Determinations&text=INA%20%C2%A7%20235(b)(1)%20instructs%20that%2 0the%20examining,fear%E2%80%9D%20of%20persecution% 20or%20torture.



Thank God it's dead.

[paulxu]

No aid for Ukraine/Israel without border deal.
OK, here's the border deal you want and you created.
Wait...some private citizen doesn't like it.
Kill it. Now let's just do Ukraine/Israel aid.
Wait...no aid for Ukraine/Israel without border deal.

Idiots.

[paulxu]

It's possible this might another typical Maga grift; seems like people paid a lot for some beer and aren't getting it:

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/woke-free-beer-venture-earns-f-rating-with-bbb

But...not to worry. Some Anheuser-Busch lobbyist is hosting a fund raiser for the sexual assault guy...so he's lifting the boycott on Bud Light.
You can now drink it without being woke. Aren't you happy?

[Xville]

Unfortunately members of our government are more interested in being reality tv stars than actually legislating

[Strange Brew]

You, Paul and Chuck Schumer seem upset.

[XU_Lou]

You, Paul and Chuck Schumer seem upset.

Francois Mitterrand is as well.

I wonder what Generalissimo Francisco Franco is doing these days?

[xuphan]

You, Paul and Chuck Schumer seem upset.

Here is another guy who seems upset as well for some reason.

https://youtu.be/yERpDYv0WwY?si=m9kMHBWosbOWZOp1

[Xville]

Here is another guy who seems upset as well for some reason.

https://youtu.be/yERpDYv0WwY?si=m9kMHBWosbOWZOp1

Guessing hannity.. he seems like he’d be a real ass in real life.

[bjf123]

Francois Mitterrand is as well.

I wonder what Generalissimo Francisco Franco is doing these days?

In my best Chevy Chase impression, “He’s still dead.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

You, Paul and Chuck Schumer seem upset.

I'm certainly bothered by what is going on. We have dementia patient vs dementia patient running for the Presidency, and we have a congress that doesn't do shit. Our governing body went off the rails about 15 years ago, it's a little disconcerting.

[94GRAD]

Posted without comment

https://twitter.com/Danagardens/status/1755601031566864640

[Xville]

Posted without comment

https://twitter.com/Danagardens/status/1755601031566864640

Thank you for the post. I read yesterday that there has been zero legislation on illegal immigration passed since 1985. This bill wasn't perfect, no bill is, but it would have made things better, and Republicans are not likely to ever get these kinds of concessions again. Hopefully they wake the f up when Trump either goes to jail and/or loses again.

[STL_XUfan]

Listening into the oral arguments on the Ballot exclusion case. You can tell that the Trump team is taking this seriously based on the quality of lawyer they retained. Jonathan Mitchell was really sharp and was great at knowing which battles to fight. Night and day compared to the attorneys on his other cases.

[Smails]

Thank you for the post. I read yesterday that there has been zero legislation on illegal immigration passed since 1985. This bill wasn't perfect, no bill is, but it would have made things better, and Republicans are not likely to ever get these kinds of concessions again. Hopefully they wake the f up when Trump either goes to jail and/or loses again.

This

If Trump wins the WH, does he think that congressional dems are going to all of the sudden say 'now you can get what you want'..seriously? What will most likely happen is they'll put together a bill and say, "here are your border concessions... and 200 other things we have added to suit our causes" The door will continue to revolve..

[GoMuskies]

Listening into the oral arguments on the Ballot exclusion case. You can tell that the Trump team is taking this seriously based on the quality of lawyer they retained. Jonathan Mitchell was really sharp and was great at knowing which battles to fight. Night and day compared to the attorneys on his other cases.

This decision needs to be 9-0 in favor of allowing him on the ballot.

Also would be nice to be 9-0 agreeing Trump can be prosecuted once the Court grants cert on that one. I'm sure they'll play with the standard the DC Circuit set out in its decision, but all of the Justices should agree with the result.

[paulxu]

All this nonsense for the last 3 years, and all these cases, and the border/Ukraine/Israel issues would all be so much better if a few senators had the balls to vote to convict on the impeachment.
Our country would be so much better, as a rational Republican would be running against an old Democrat; and could probably easily win.

[94GRAD]

all this nonsense for the last 3 years, and all these cases, and the border/ukraine/israel issues would all be so much better if a few senators had the balls to vote to convict on the impeachment.
Our country would be so much better, as a rational republican would be running against an old democrat; and could probably easily win.

This!!!!!!

[STL_XUfan]

This decision needs to be 9-0 in favor of allowing him on the ballot.

Also would be nice to be 9-0 agreeing Trump can be prosecuted once the Court grants cert on that one. I'm sure they'll play with the standard the DC Circuit set out in its decision, but all of the Justices should agree with the result.

It seemed like they were all looking for an off ramp that allowed a 9-0 decision that didn't have to really touch on the underlying facts (was it an insurrection or not).

Maybe the trade off is the 3 liberal justices sign onto a 9-0 decision and then the Chief lobbies 2 votes to deny Cert. on the DC appeal.

[Strange Brew]

This decision needs to be 9-0 in favor of allowing him on the ballot.

Also would be nice to be 9-0 agreeing Trump can be prosecuted once the Court grants cert on that one. I'm sure they'll play with the standard the DC Circuit set out in its decision, but all of the Justices should agree with the result.

Prosecuted for what?

[GoMuskies]

I'm not saying he SHOULD be prosecuted or convicted. Just that the Court should decide that he doesn't have absolute immunity and CAN be prosecuted.

[Strange Brew]

I'm not saying he SHOULD be prosecuted or convicted. Just that the Court should decide that he doesn't have absolute immunity and CAN be prosecuted.

That’s a good/fair point.

Hur’s statement today….. wowza!

[X-band '01]

Listening into the oral arguments on the Ballot exclusion case. You can tell that the Trump team is taking this seriously based on the quality of lawyer they retained. Jonathan Mitchell was really sharp and was great at knowing which battles to fight. Night and day compared to the attorneys on his other cases.

In other words, an actual lawyer and not a TV lawyer like Alina Habba?

[XU_Lou]

So, Dems want an aid package for Ukraine and Israel.
Repubs say no aid package without border issues addressed.
McConnell tasks Lankford to get that done.
Lankford gets Dems to make all kinds of concessions to get a deal, getting what the Repubs want.
Dems agree so they can move forward.
Border Patrol supports.
Trump tells House to turn it down.
McConnell says it needs to pass. Trump calls McConnell.
McConnell changes his mind (within the space of an hour or so). Deal dies.
House trys to impeach Mayorkas (strange since the Repubs wanted changes and funding that would have helped him...until Trump intervened.)
House fails on impeachment vote. First one to fail since the 1860's.
Now Senate may try to get original Dem bill back to the table to fund Ukraine and Israel.

It's a circus. The Repubs are apparently incapable of governing.


No aid for Ukraine/Israel without border deal.
OK, here's the border deal you want and you created.
Wait...some private citizen doesn't like it.
Kill it. Now let's just do Ukraine/Israel aid.
Wait...no aid for Ukraine/Israel without border deal.

Idiots.


All this nonsense for the last 3 years, and all these cases, and the border/Ukraine/Israel issues would all be so much better if a few senators had the balls to vote to convict on the impeachment.
Our country would be so much better, as a rational Republican would be running against an old Democrat; and could probably easily win.

Are you writing the script for The History of the World Part 3?

[noteggs]

Speaking of Hur’s statement. This is a funny but very sad headline from the Bee


Man Ruled Too Senile To Stand Trial Still Fine To Run Country

[Strange Brew]

Speaking of Hur’s statement. This is a funny but very sad headline from the Bee

Haha!

This press conference should be considered a violation of the ADA.

So, Biden is making the point that he is competent to stand trial. Interesting move.

[STL_XUfan]

In other words, an actual lawyer and not a TV lawyer like Alina Habba?
There was a great exchange with Justice Jackson concerning an argument that could have appeared to strengthen his case, but saw where the road ended and expertly called it out. Page 60-64 of the transcript. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24414215-trump-ballot-case-scotus-transcript

I didn’t agree with everything he said, but objectively he was incredibly well prepared and just came off as genuine. I am sure Trump hated it cause he didn’t just loudly repeat the party line in hopes that if he said it enough that it could somehow become true.

[Strange Brew]

There was a great exchange with Justice Jackson concerning an argument that could have appeared to strengthen his case, but saw where the road ended and expertly called it out. Page 60-64 of the transcript. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24414215-trump-ballot-case-scotus-transcript

I didn’t agree with everything he said, but objectively he was incredibly well prepared and just came off as genuine. I am sure Trump hated it cause he didn’t just loudly repeat the party line in hopes that if he said it enough that it could somehow become true.

He did well. We agree on that.

I thought Trump expressed his feelings on the proceedings well this afternoon. Very measured.

[Strange Brew]

On a side note. This did take the air out of Tucker’s interview with Putin….:)

[GoMuskies]

Don't worry about Biden's memory. He's working on a hostage deal in Gaza with Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. You know, the President of Mexico.

[GoMuskies]

By the way, betting odds of Joe Biden winning re-election went WAY down today. From +165 to +225. He's only -250 to be the Democrat nominee. Today is so bad I almost wonder if it was on purpose to get himself off the hook from having to run for re-election.

[Strange Brew]

Don't worry about Biden's memory. He's working on a hostage deal in Gaza with Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. You know, the President of Mexico.

He’s got this…..

At the same time the British “King” is going down fast.

My Irish/German roots would laugh if it weren’t so serious.

[xuwillie]

No way Biden makes it to the next election. He may still be alive but his memory is completely gone.

[Strange Brew]

No way Biden makes it to the next election. He may still be alive but his memory is completely gone.

Don’t be so sure. 80+M votes the last time. ;)

[Xuperman]

No way Biden makes it to the next election. He may still be alive but his memory is completely gone.

I can't believe so many people still thinks he will. When will '24 election coverage and discussion face that reality? The only question now is who Obama wants to replace him.

[Xville]

And I still can’t believe there are people floating Michelle Obama name out there. She literally hates politics and everything about it. 0.0% chance she ever runs for anything.

Biden will be the candidate unless he’s dead or in a nursing home. It’s too late in the game.

[Xuperman]

She will personally do very little that involves politics, because she won't be there long enough. Besides, Barack will be behind the curtain doing that for her. All she will be ask to do is campaign against Trump after the convention....one would think she would enjoy that. Just imagine a Trump style attack on HER in a debate!

Here is the America killing scenario that patriotic folks should fear.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_

Obama convinces Michele to accept the nomination. He pairs her with Newsome. That ticket DESTROYS the Trump ticket. Michele resigns when Obama thinks the time is right, citing "personal reasons". Newsome becomes POTUS and all of America becomes California.

"Fundamentally Transform America" is complete.

[Xville]

She will personally do very little that involves politics, because she won't be there long enough. Besides, Barack will be behind the curtain doing that for her. All she will be ask to do is campaign against Trump after the convention....one would think she would enjoy that. Just imagine a Trump style attack on HER in a debate!

Here is the America killing scenario that patriotic folks should fear.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_

Obama convinces Michele to accept the nomination. He pairs her with Newsome. That ticket DESTROYS the Trump ticket. Michele resigns when Obama thinks the time is right, citing "personal reasons". Newsome becomes POTUS and all of America becomes California.

"Fundamentally Transform America" is complete.

Really hope this is tongue in cheek, otherwise please seek professional help. This is lou style conspiracy theory

[STL_XUfan]

She will personally do very little that involves politics, because she won't be there long enough. Besides, Barack will be behind the curtain doing that for her. All she will be ask to do is campaign against Trump after the convention....one would think she would enjoy that. Just imagine a Trump style attack on HER in a debate!

Here is the America killing scenario that patriotic folks should fear.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_

Obama convinces Michele to accept the nomination. He pairs her with Newsome. That ticket DESTROYS the Trump ticket. Michele resigns when Obama thinks the time is right, citing "personal reasons". Newsome becomes POTUS and all of America becomes California.

"Fundamentally Transform America" is complete.

I thought recreational use didn’t start until August.

[GoMuskies]

Michelle is +375 to be the nominee.

[Xville]

Michelle is +375 to be the nominee.

So you're telling me that there are a lot of suckers out there.

Not that I don't think Biden is a dementia patient, but I'd find the report a bit more believable if it wasn't investigated by a former Trump Admin.

[Xuperman]

Not a conspiracy theory at all. I consider those as outlandish explanations of a past event, like "who really killed JFK".

This is simply a horrific "WHAT IF".

[GoMuskies]

So you're telling me that there are a lot of suckers out there.

Not that I don't think Biden is a dementia patient, but I'd find the report a bit more believable if it wasn't investigated by a former Trump Admin.

That leaves free -250 Biden money for you, then.

+225 to win the general.

[Xville]

That leaves free -250 Biden money for you, then.

+225 to win the general.

The only thing I am 100% on is that Michelle Obama will never be the candidate.

[GoMuskies]

Also, you say he's a dementia patient but DON'T believe a report that he presents as an elderly man who struggles with his memory?!?

[GoMuskies]

The only thing I am 100% on is that Michelle Obama will never be the candidate.

Straight to Newsom is +650.

[Xville]

Straight to Newsom is +650.

This is why I think Biden will be the nominee unless the guy literally dies. Newsom has said he will 100% not run this cycle. There just isn't anyone at this conjuncture on that side that can run, plus its very late.

I wish it was a year ago and this was happening, then maybe Manchin could have run on the d ticket. At least he's a normal human being.

[bjf123]

I’d vote for Manchin in a heartbeat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xuperman]

There are a lot of people that don't seem to understand the magnitude of the Left's "Trump Derangement Syndrome". He CAN NOT permitted to take back POTUS, and anything/everything will be done to make that happen.

It's not that the Obama Power Cabal thinks Biden is not mentally capable for another term because he's really just a figure head anyway. It's that polling continues to show Trump with significant leads in key battleground states, key demographics and the general election. They simply CAN NOT RISK these numbers to be accurate, giving DJT back the White House.

This is solely the reason why sleepy Joe will not be the nominee. The only question is, who will it be? Who does the Left have that would blow out Trump?

[xuwillie]

Don’t be so sure. 80+M votes the last time. ;)

True but he's completely gone now. Sure they have a plan so Harris can be President which is scary as shit.

[STL_XUfan]

There are a lot of people that don't seem to understand the magnitude of the Left's "Trump Derangement Syndrome". He CAN NOT permitted to take back POTUS, and anything/everything will be done to make that happen.

It's not that the Obama Power Cabal thinks Biden is not mentally capable for another term because he's really just a figure head anyway. It's that polling continues to show Trump with significant leads in key battleground states, key demographics and the general election. They simply CAN NOT RISK these numbers to be accurate, giving DJT back the White House.

This is solely the reason why sleepy Joe will not be the nominee. The only question is, who will it be? Who does the Left have that would blow out Trump?

I wish the Democratic Party was 1/100th as organized as you believe they are.

[Xville]

There are a lot of people that don't seem to understand the magnitude of the Left's "Trump Derangement Syndrome". He CAN NOT permitted to take back POTUS, and anything/everything will be done to make that happen.

It's not that the Obama Power Cabal thinks Biden is not mentally capable for another term because he's really just a figure head anyway. It's that polling continues to show Trump with significant leads in key battleground states, key demographics and the general election. They simply CAN NOT RISK these numbers to be accurate, giving DJT back the White House.

This is solely the reason why sleepy Joe will not be the nominee. The only question is, who will it be? Who does the Left have that would blow out Trump?

Pretty much anyone would blow out trump. Trump can only potentially beat Biden and that’s it

[Xville]

I’d vote for Manchin in a heartbeat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So would most of america

[GoMuskies]

Pretty much anyone would blow out trump. Trump can only potentially beat Biden and that’s it

And pretty much anyone could beat Biden. Biden can only potentially beat Trump.

Isn't it hilarious that despite these "facts" (they're not quite facts but pretty close), the two parties seem bound and determined to put those two up for November? Trump is definitely going to be up there. I think yesterday may have finally been the turning point on the Dem side to put Biden out to pasture.

[xuwillie]

The only thing I am 100% on is that Michelle Obama will never be the candidate.

Yeah I don’t see that happening as well. I think they really want Harris as Pres for some reason and this is the easiest way to have that happen with Biden moving to assisted living nov ‘24

[Xville]

And pretty much anyone could beat Biden. Biden can only potentially beat Trump.

Isn't it hilarious that despite these "facts" (they're not quite facts but pretty close), the two parties seem bound and determined to put those two up for November? Trump is definitely going to be up there. I think yesterday may have finally been the turning point on the Dem side to put Biden out to pasture.

hilarious or sad as f?

[Xuperman]

Yeah I don’t see that happening as well. I think they really want Harris as Pres for some reason and this is the easiest way to have that happen with Biden moving to assisted living nov ‘24

So, your predicting Biden wins the election, then resigns and Harris takes over?

[Xville]

If the Dems were smart, they'd push Harris to the side and put someone that is actually moderate on the VP ticket with Biden.

[Smails]

Not that I don't think Biden is a dementia patient, but I'd find the report a bit more believable if it wasn't investigated by a former Trump Admin.

Do you think Hur made things up? I haven't heard anyone from either side of the aisle harshly dispute his findings. If anything, the Pubs wanted the report to be more damning than it was. Everyone knows Biden is losing his mind...literally everyone. I actually think the report gave the President a pretty soft landing considering he's been on record lately having multiple conversations with dead people.

I seriously doubt that Merrick Garland would appoint someone who he thought would do a hit job on the President.

[Smails]

If the Dems were smart, they'd push Harris to the side and put someone that is actually moderate on the VP ticket with Biden.

Completely agree, but the backlash from the DEI crowd would be more than the Dems want to deal with. If Biden gets the nod I truly hope he makes it for the next four years because that woman is an absolute disaster.

[Xville]

Do you think Hur made things up? I haven't heard anyone from either side of the aisle harshly dispute his findings. If anything, the Pubs wanted the report to be more damning than it was. Everyone knows Biden is losing his mind...literally everyone. I actually think the report gave the President a pretty soft landing considering he's been on record lately having multiple conversations with dead people.

I seriously doubt that Merrick Garland would appoint someone who he thought would do a hit job on the President.

I don’t think it’s too much of a leap to believe he may have made some shit up to make Biden look bad. Biden does that a lot on his own, but still.

[D-West & PO-Z]

And pretty much anyone could beat Biden. Biden can only potentially beat Trump.

Isn't it hilarious that despite these "facts" (they're not quite facts but pretty close), the two parties seem bound and determined to put those two up for November? Trump is definitely going to be up there. I think yesterday may have finally been the turning point on the Dem side to put Biden out to pasture.

What a sad reality.

[Xuperman]

What a sad reality.

Not really. Dem propaganda agent Chris Hahn, on NewsNation, just stated that Biden is possibly unfit to get the party's nomination. Tossed out Gretchen Whitmer as an excellent choice.

Please let that happen.

[X-band '01]

Meanwhile, Xville's friend Larry Hogan jumping in Maryland's Senate race for 2024. He was a popular governor in Maryland, but this would be a monster pickup for the Republicans should he win that seat. Even if he's not a MAGA Republican.

[Xville]

Meanwhile, Xville's friend Larry Hogan jumping in Maryland's Senate race for 2024. He was a popular governor in Maryland, but this would be a monster pickup for the Republicans should he win that seat. Even if he's not a MAGA Republican.

He will probably win. Both aisles minus the maga freaks and the squad love him. Pragmatist and common sense. Something missing from those two groups.

[bobbiemcgee]

Meanwhile, Xville's friend Larry Hogan jumping in Maryland's Senate race for 2024. He was a popular governor in Maryland, but this would be a monster pickup for the Republicans should he win that seat. Even if he's not a MAGA Republican.

Wish he had run for Pres.

[Strange Brew]

He will probably win. Both aisles minus the maga freaks and the squad love him. Pragmatist and common sense. Something missing from those two groups.

“MAGA freaks”? Not very moderate of you.

Hope Hogan wins the seat.

[Xville]

“MAGA freaks”? Not very moderate of you.

Hope Hogan wins the seat.

It’s very moderate to call out the extremists but thank you for your input. Interesting you said nothing about what I called the other side. Shocking.

[Strange Brew]

It’s very moderate to call out the extremists but thank you for your input. Interesting you said nothing about what I called the other side. Shocking.

Because you called the Squad what they call themselves?

You’re kind of an extremist about your candidates.

[Xville]

Because you called the Squad what they call themselves?

You’re kind of an extremist about your candidates.

Good to know your thoughts on the matter

[Strange Brew]

Good to know your thoughts on the matter

Thanks Ville.

Always here to help you continue to be the moderate voice of reason here.

[noteggs]

For those who think it’s too late for Joe to step down, it wouldn’t be the first at this stage. Lyndon Johnson walked away March 31, 1068 during an election year.

[Strange Brew]

For those who think it’s too late for Joe to step down, it wouldn’t be the first at this stage. Lyndon Johnson walked away March 31, 1068 during an election year.

If he does I hope Ford Jr. runs.

[noteggs]

Do you think Hur made things up? I haven't heard anyone from either side of the aisle harshly dispute his findings. If anything, the Pubs wanted the report to be more damning than it was. Everyone knows Biden is losing his mind...literally everyone. I actually think the report gave the President a pretty soft landing considering he's been on record lately having multiple conversations with dead people.

I seriously doubt that Merrick Garland would appoint someone who he thought would do a hit job on the President.

Actually, Garland said Hur had the upmost integrity when appointed. Funny how his integrity is now being challenged. Wonder what happened?

[X-band '01]

He will probably win. Both aisles minus the maga freaks and the squad love him. Pragmatist and common sense. Something missing from those two groups.

He's going to have to win with a higher voter turnout than what you'd see in a typical governor's election in Maryland.

I'll use another analogy - I know that Steve Beshear beat Daniel Cameron somewhat comfortably for governor in Kentucky, but if those two guys ran for a Senate seat, I'd wager on Daniel Cameron winning a head-to-head matchup there.

[Xville]

He's going to have to win with a higher voter turnout than what you'd see in a typical governor's election in Maryland.

I'll use another analogy - I know that Steve Beshear beat Daniel Cameron somewhat comfortably for governor in Kentucky, but if those two guys ran for a Senate seat, I'd wager on Daniel Cameron winning a head-to-head matchup there.

Understand what you’re saying… Steve was his dad though :) .

I don’t think he ever has intention of doing it, but I wouldn’t mind Andy on the d side as a presidential candidate. He’s probably too moderate and normal though

[paulxu]

For those who think it’s too late for Joe to step down, it wouldn’t be the first at this stage. Lyndon Johnson walked away March 31, 1068 during an election year.

Roughly 2 years after the Battle of Hastings.

[noteggs]

Roughly 2 years after the Battle of Hastings.

Hey what can I say, I was just toddler when Johnson was president. He just seemed 900 years old.

[Xuperman]

This could explain why the border is such an "over the top" fiasco.

https://thelibertyloft.com/2021/03/23/the-alinsky-factor-overwhelm-the-system/

There are a considerable number of political thinkers in the media that believe Obama and former Obama officials serving in the current administration, are actively influencing Biden policy. In theory, is this illegal immigration catastrophe a product of the points made in the article? Biden DID make scores of executive orders pertaining to the border/immigration, IMMEDIATELY upon taking office. Literally putting out the "Welcome mat" creating the mass migration lunacy we've seen for over 3 years now.

Look at the timing of this current immigration reform legislation. How convenient for Dems to rage Republican obstruction after the intended damage is irreversible.

Is it that far of a stretch to suggest that this 3 year surge has been intentional from the beginning and this election year border legislation is a planned way for Biden to save face with '24 voters?

This is also something to ponder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

[bjf123]

At least someone on the Left finally admits that the MSM narrative regarding Trump and Charlottesville, which is still repeated, was false.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-michael-rapaport-admits-narrative-on-trumps-charlottesville-comments-was-totally-fake


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UCGRAD4X]

At least someone on the Left finally admits that the MSM narrative regarding Trump and Charlottesville, which is still repeated, was false.
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-michael-rapaport-admits-narrative-on-trumps-charlottesville-comments-was-totally-fake

That horse left the barn at a full gallop and is still being beaten long after lying dead half a nation away.

I'm reminded of toothpaste and tubes as well.

[bobbiemcgee]

Fake news nowadays.. Who'd have thunk.

[bobbiemcgee]

When will this shit ever end.

[xuphan]

When will this shit ever end.

How much is gas at Costco in Denver? Had to pay 3.39 a gallon here in Ohio. A 40 cent jump from just 2 weeks ago.

[bobbiemcgee]

Was referring to KC

[GoMuskies]

Jon Stewart summed our political situation up pretty well (starting around 2:25).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpBPm0b9deQ

[X-band '01]

Indecision 2024: Antiques Roadshow was fantastic.

[paulxu]

Sometimes I'm just amazed at how millions of people were taken in, and continue to be taken in, but the lies and the grift.


The group that Dinesh D’Souza replied upon for his 2000 Mules movie that Trump hyped was ordered by a judge to produce their evidence under oath in a court of law. They had nothing.

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-elections-true-vote-ballot-stuffing-199113b47bc2df79c63fdf007cd23115

[bobbiemcgee]

Putin kills Navalny.

[GoMuskies]

Putin kills Navalny.

Sure, but that subway station in Moscow.....

[bobbiemcgee]

The one built by slaves?

[paulxu]

Ouch. $355 million.

[noteggs]

I’m sure the victims are relieved

[bobbiemcgee]

Ouch. $355 million.

Plus 83 million. Bad month. Lou and Uncle Joe need to up their donations.

[X-band '01]

There was one silver lining for Trump - he's been suspended for 3 years from serving as an officer for Trump Corp (or any other corp/business for that matter), but Trump Corporation will not be dissolved as Judge Arthur Engoron initially tried to do early on. Upon further review, he realized he didn't have the authority to do so in this instance.

[xuphan]

Plus 83 million. Bad month. Lou and Uncle Joe need to up their donations.

Wonder if he will also declare bankruptcy like Rudy and Alex Jones?

[GoMuskies]

Wonder if he will also declare bankruptcy like Rudy and Alex Jones?

If he does it, I bet he does it more like Michael Scott.

[X-band '01]

I need to start counting the number of time Trump flaps his arms during his speeches on TV. Are we sure he wasn't the Saint Joe's mascot in a previous life?

[xuphan]

Putin kills Navalny.

Thought Navalny was locked up. Why would Putin wait all this time to do it now? Wonder if Tucker knew this was coming from his interview.

[bobbiemcgee]

I need to start counting the number of time Trump flaps his arms during his speeches on TV. Are we sure he wasn't the Saint Joe's mascot in a previous life?

If he's flapping, he's lying.

[Strange Brew]

Ouch. $355 million.

I’m beginning to question the Country I once knew.

Who is John Galt.

[UCGRAD4X]

I need to start counting the number of time Trump flaps his arms during his speeches on TV. Are we sure he wasn't the Saint Joe's mascot in a previous life?

Reps
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia3.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FfAUxIi NIvvAu6u5WOV%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4540e69a5232c927247935b0ffd8959d9d02e4ae053f29 ba528e8d9aab5e19b5&ipo=images

[xuwillie]

I’m beginning to question the Country I once knew.

Who is John Galt.

Whether you love or hate trump what happened in NY these past two lawsuits is pretty disgusting and concerning. The judicial system is a complete mess, The immagrants who beat up the cop got $1 bail! Thank god I don’t live in NY

[paulxu]

What's "disgusting and concerning" about having a convicted sexual offender pay for defaming the person he abused?

What's disgusting and concerning is that anyone thinks a convicted sexual offender should actually be president of our country.

[STL_XUfan]

It really wasn’t. He got hit with a $5 million dollar verdict for defaming someone, and in response continued to defame her. So the second verdict upped that amount, and guess what it seemed to have worked, cause he ain’t said shit yet.

His over the top exaggerations finally caught up with him on the civil fraud trials.

He is constantly stepping on rakes and acts shocked when he finally experiences a consequence. Look at the classified documents case, if he just gave them back nothing would have come of it. Instead he lied, falsified information, and tried to destroy evidence.

[paulxu]

The immagrants who beat up the cop got $1 bail! Thank god I don’t live in NY

Where do you get your news? They have all been detained and bails have been set between $15,000 and $100,000.
The one guy with the $1.00 bail is currently in detention by ICE and didn't need to have a high bail. He's not going anywhere, and didn't take part in the beating.

Hopefully they'll get long sentences for attacking cops.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/5-more-migrants-accused-of-attack-on-nypd-cops-are-sent-to-rikers/

[Strange Brew]

It really wasn’t. He got hit with a $5 million dollar verdict for defaming someone, and in response continued to defame her. So the second verdict upped that amount, and guess what it seemed to have worked, cause he ain’t said shit yet.

His over the top exaggerations finally caught up with him on the civil fraud trials.

He is constantly stepping on rakes and acts shocked when he finally experiences a consequence. Look at the classified documents case, if he just gave them back nothing would have come of it. Instead he lied, falsified information, and tried to destroy evidence.

Um, who exactly was the defrauded party? The State? That’s interesting especially since the Judge made the ruling before the trial started. Don’t make a joke of yourself defending the State of NY.

[X-band '01]

Keep in mind this was a civil case without a jury; there was enough evidence from the filings that Trump was liable for fraud. The only question was for how much he would have to pay back in engorgement (i.e. ill-gotten gains through said fraud).

Then again, Trump probably saw the writing on the wall, said Damn the Torpedoes and has pretty much used his trials as de facto campaign rallies for free publicity.

[Strange Brew]

Wonder if he will also declare bankruptcy like Rudy and Alex Jones?

At least he’s “mentally competent” enough to stand trial…

[Strange Brew]

Keep in mind this was a civil case without a jury; there was enough evidence from the filings that Trump was liable for fraud. The only question was for how much he would have to pay back in engorgement (i.e. ill-gotten gains through said fraud).

Then again, Trump probably saw the writing on the wall, said Damn the Torpedoes and has pretty much used his trials as de facto campaign rallies for free publicity.

Again, who was the injured party claiming fraud? This is a Civil case without a civil complaint.

[STL_XUfan]

Um, who exactly was the defrauded party? The State? That’s interesting especially since the Judge made the ruling before the trial started. Don’t make a joke of yourself defending the State of NY.
I don’t know what is so confusing about the court ruling on a motion for summary judgment, especially considering your expertise on the law. But in laymen’s terms, the evidence, even when giving every reasonable inference to the non-moving party, was so clear that was no question that the moving party proved their case. This is a pretty standard motion in civil cases.

As far as who he defrauded, it was alleged that it was the banks and insurance companies he did business with.

If Trump doesn’t like New York law, he is in luck, he won’t be allowed to run a business there for 3 years.

[Strange Brew]

I don’t know what is so confusing about the court ruling on a motion for summary judgment, especially considering you expertise on the law. But in laymen’s terms, the evidence, even when giving every reasonable inference to the non-moving party, was so clear that was no question that the moving party proved their case. This is a pretty standard motion in civil cases.

As far as who he defrauded, it was alleged that it was the banks and insurance companies he did business with.

If Trump doesn’t like New York law, he is in luck, he won’t be allowed to run a business there for 3 years.

Yeah, no shit on summary judgement.

And that’s bullshit and you know it. The banks and insurance companies didn’t file a complaint. Therefore, no fraud.

Tell me. To whom will Trump be paying the damages since there wasn’t a plaintiff?

What it sounds like to me is the State of NY wanted to invent a crime and found a pop Tort.

[STL_XUfan]

Yeah, no shit on summary judgement.

And that’s bullshit and you know it. The banks and insurance companies didn’t file a complaint. Therefore, no fraud.

Tell me. To whom will Trump be paying the damages since there wasn’t a plaintiff?

What it sounds like to me is the State of NY wanted to invent a crime and found a pop Tort.
“Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal
acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the
carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general
may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the
supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an
order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any
fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an
appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue
of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law
or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court
may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem
proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include
any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception,
misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false
promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent
fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or
carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term
"repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and
distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than
one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies
recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state
official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject
to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.”

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

[bjf123]

Has anyone else ever been prosecuted under that law in the State of NY? I’m not sure, but I don’t think so. If they want to show this to be anything but a political hit job, they need to go after more people under the same law. I’m 100% sure there are other NY real estate developers who’ve grossly misrepresented the value of their properties.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

“Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal
acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the
carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general
may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the
supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an
order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any
fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an
appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue
of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law
or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court
may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem
proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include
any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception,
misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false
promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent
fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or
carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term
"repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and
distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than
one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies
recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state
official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject
to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.”

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63




Thanks. So if it were illegal why not a criminal trial. Oh wait, because no actual law was broken.

Unless, the AG gets to invent crimes at his/her/their discretion.

[STL_XUfan]

Thanks. So if it were illegal why not a criminal trial. Oh wait, because no actual law was broken.

Unless, the AG gets to invent crimes at his/her/their discretion.
You are correct that no criminal charges were brought. However, the company and Trump were found liable for in excess of $350 million dollars for their actions in violation of New York law, so I don’t think avoiding a criminal complaint was much of a win here.

[Strange Brew]

You are correct that no criminal charges were brought. However, the company and Trump were found liable for in excess of $350 million dollars for their actions in violation of New York law, so I don’t think avoiding a criminal complaint was much of a win here.

What law was broken? And liable for harm to whom?

That is the problem here STL.

[paulxu]

What law was broken? And liable for harm to whom?

That is the problem here STL.

He already answered. The law is Executive Law § 63(12) of the State of New York.
Perhaps if you read the opinion you'll get a better idea of the facts:

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/02/nyag-v-trump-verdict-20240216.pdf

[xuphan]

At least he’s “mentally competent” enough to stand trial…

He probably wishes he wasn’t at this point.

[xuphan]

Putin kills Navalny.

Did he though? I say if the family gets his body back intact, Putin wasn’t involved. If the family doesn’t get his body back, than Putin had something to do with it. Especially since Russia State media said he collapsed during a walk.

[Strange Brew]

He already answered. The law is Executive Law § 63(12) of the State of New York.
Perhaps if you read the opinion you'll get a better idea of the facts:

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/02/nyag-v-trump-verdict-20240216.pdf

So yes, no crime was committed yet the DA decided civil fraud happened however was no one harmed.

So, who collects the money? The State? If so, that’s tragically hilarious.

[STL_XUfan]

So yes, no crime was committed yet the DA decided civil fraud happened however was no one harmed.

So, who collects the money? The State? If so, that’s tragically hilarious.
The DA didn’t bring charges. The State AG did. And the collection of funds is stated in the statute that was already provided.

[bobbiemcgee]

What law was broken? And liable for harm to whom?

That is the problem here STL.

I think that in just one case that your appraisal
Is 570 million off the actual you could allege fraud.

[UCGRAD4X]

I think that in just one case that your appraisal
Is 570 million off the actual you could allege fraud.

I'm curious. In this sort of deal, why wouldn't the lending institution do their own appraisal? They would be stupid and probably irresponsible and perhaps negligent to depend on the owners somewhat subjective appraisal. There are probably not a lot of 'comperables' in this particular situation. Sure, I would like to think my property is worth a lot more if I were selling or borrowing. Why in the hell would they take my word for it and not do their due diligence? What am I missing? I'm sure there are many on here that would be more than happy to tell me.

[XU_Lou]

I'm curious. In this sort of deal, why wouldn't the lending institution do their own appraisal? They would be stupid and probably irresponsible and perhaps negligent to depend on the owners somewhat subjective appraisal. There are probably not a lot of 'comperables' in this particular situation. Sure, I would like to think my property is worth a lot more if I were selling or borrowing. Why in the hell would they take my word for it and not do their due diligence? What am I missing? I'm sure there are many on here that would be more than happy to tell me.

Please, don't go there. Logic isn't everyone's thing around here.

[bjf123]

The banks had no problem with Trump’s loan. They were paid back in full and I believe on time. This whole thing is a political attack. Nothing more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xuphan]

The banks had no problem with Trump’s loan. They were paid back in full and I believe on time. This whole thing is a political attack. Nothing more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe he could finally pay contractors who he still owes for the Taj Mahal. Unless you think that is political as well.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/columnists/mike-kelly/2020/01/24/donald-trump-still-owes-money-to-contractors-who-built-taj-mahal-atlantic-city/4547037002/

[bjf123]

Maybe he could finally pay contractors who he still owes for the Taj Mahal. Unless you think that is political as well.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/columnists/mike-kelly/2020/01/24/donald-trump-still-owes-money-to-contractors-who-built-taj-mahal-atlantic-city/4547037002/

Unrelated to this issue, but those contractors should be able to file a lien against the property to get paid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

The banks had no problem with Trump’s loan. They were paid back in full and I believe on time. This whole thing is a political attack. Nothing more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The laws he broke were broken by other people before; and they were held accountable.
He just ran into a situation where he was held accountable. If you want to understand it, here's the opinion with annotations to help:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/16/nyregion/trump-fraud-engoron-decision-annotated.html

[bjf123]

Paywall. Also, anything from the NYT regarding a Republican is hardly going to be a fair or accurate bit of writing. Might be some truths in there, but it will be spun to fit the narrative and you won’t know what truths that help the other side are conveniently ignored.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

400 bucks lighter today, but at least I've got some Trump sneaks on the way....probably.

[94GRAD]

400 bucks lighter today, but at least I've got some Trump sneaks on the way....probably.

You ever get your Big Baller Brand kicks?

[GoMuskies]

No, they appear to have products for as low as $155. What's big baller about that?

To actually be baller, you need $400 gold shoes. Obviously.

[paulxu]

Paywall. Also, anything from the NYT regarding a Republican is hardly going to be a fair or accurate bit of writing. Might be some truths in there, but it will be spun to fit the narrative and you won’t know what truths that help the other side are conveniently ignored.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't have an account and when I click the link it goes through. Did you try it?
It's hard to spin a "narrative" when you are printing an opinion from the court.
They annotate it, but don't (obviously) change it.
Here it is from another link:

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/02/nyag-v-trump-verdict-20240216.pdf

[bobbiemcgee]

And I still can’t believe there are people floating Michelle Obama name out there. She literally hates politics and everything about it. 0.0% chance she ever runs for anything.

Biden will be the candidate unless he’s dead or in a nursing home. It’s too late in the game.

LBJ quit March 31st

[Xville]

LBJ quit March 31st

And howd that work out for the dems? That's my point, well that, and suggesting that Michelle Obama would run is complete nonsensical.

[X-band '01]

No, they appear to have products for as low as $155. What's big baller about that?

To actually be baller, you need $400 gold shoes. Obviously.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ6K59vc_HQ

He's stealing Al Bundy's idea for God-like shoes!

[xuphan]

400 bucks lighter today, but at least I've got some Trump sneaks on the way....probably.

You should have done the 4 easy payment plan of 100 bucks. You get a free MAGA sticker for your car if you go that route.

[bobbiemcgee]

That 45 on the trump hat has new meaning. Rated dead last in Presidents.

[paulxu]

400 bucks lighter today, but at least I've got some Trump sneaks on the way....probably.

Go, I'm worried. You may have stumbled into another beer-like scam, or heaven forbid a Trump University scam.
They got your $, and who knows when you might get your shoes.


Trump Sneakers are expected to start shipping July 2024 for the gold High-Tops, and the Potus 45 White Knit & Red Wave Knit are expected to ship in August 2024

https://gettrumpsneakers.com/pages/faq

We'll check back with you in July to see if you have received your order. Good luck.

[paulxu]

Comer and Jordan's witness who was the confidential FBI informant alleging Bidens got millions in Ukraine, turns out to have been funneling lies from the Russians.
Quelle surprise.

[Strange Brew]

Comer and Jordan's witness who was the confidential FBI informant alleging Bidens got millions in Ukraine, turns out to have been funneling lies from the Russians.
Quelle surprise.

Who is this guy and why now? Weird…

We still have a President deemed mentally unfit to stand trial but sure Paul, thanks from left field.

I’m sure you’re enjoying old ass John Stewart’s takes on old people running. Haha.

Did you ever see the back of a $20 bill, on weed. That’s Jon Stewart in his 40’s.

[Xville]

Don't think this is political but didn't know where else to put it. We now know that the people who decided to start shooting each other at the KC Chiefs parade did so because they looked at each other weird. I mean why else would you decide to pull out a gun and just start shooting?

WTF is wrong with people.

[bobbiemcgee]

Who is this guy and why now? Weird…

Alexander Smirnov, Comet's chief witness against the Biden's got arrested for lying by the pub special prosecutor Weiss lol. Has Russian ties

[paulxu]

Of course, the whole Joe Biden got $5 million from Burisma (key to supposed impeachment) turns out to be another Russian disinformation campaign.
One of many.

[xuphan]

Don't think this is political but didn't know where else to put it. We now know that the people who decided to start shooting each other at the KC Chiefs parade did so because they looked at each other weird. I mean why else would you decide to pull out a gun and just start shooting?

WTF is wrong with people.

No offense but do you live in a bubble? Just spend a few hours in your local Walmart and you will for sure see what is wrong with people. People have no shame on how they act in society and there are a severe lack of consequences in our society.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Skip this thread now because it's toxic, but if any of you get a chance take a peek at Alabama's ruling regarding IVF frozen embryos. It is a doozy of a decision.

I can take it personal because my wife and I had to use IVF to have any children at all. We had three remaining embryos that we chose to have destroyed after our children reached over a year old. Storage fees were $500/year. We actually forgot the first year and had to pay in arrears.

I am curious how Alabama will choose to legislate this ruling. Do they want to just penalize storage facilities? Will it hit the people like my family?

My hope is they choose to do nothing. IVF is cost prohibitive and families go into it trying to make the best odds they can in one shot. That typically means as many fertilized embryos as possible. This decision severely complicates this process.

[Xuperman]

No offense but do you live in a bubble? Just spend a few hours in your local Walmart and you will for sure see what is wrong with people. People have no shame on how they act in society and there are a severe lack of consequences in our society.

Yeah, because the radical progressive left has won.

They have successfully NORMALISED.....DEI, CRT and all of the nasty post George Floyd BLM RIOTS....no problem. NO BOND for violent felonies and NO PROSECUTION for people of color criminals are the NEW NORM. ALL Big DEM city law enforcement has become castrated and demoralised.

The radical progressives now know the "brain dead" liberal "white guilt" population is sleepwalking. This O'Biden radical progressive ideology will continue to take all of us down in this toxic insanity.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ben-crump-says-ending-crime-us-easy-changing-definition-crime-dr-swain-says-thats-ludicrous

This is an unconscious attempt to further the "Fundamentally Transform America" agenda.

I simply CAN NOT understand why anyone votes Dem.

[xuphan]

Yeah, because the radical progressive left has won.

They have successfully NORMALISED.....DEI, CRT and all of the nasty post George Floyd BLM RIOTS....no problem. NO BOND for violent felonies and NO PROSECUTION for people of color criminals are the NEW NORM. ALL Big DEM city law enforcement has become castrated and demoralised.

The radical progressives now know the "brain dead" liberal "white guilt" population is sleepwalking. This O'Biden radical progressive ideology will continue to take all of us down in this toxic insanity.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ben-crump-says-ending-crime-us-easy-changing-definition-crime-dr-swain-says-thats-ludicrous

This is an unconscious attempt to further the "Fundamentally Transform America" agenda.

I simply CAN NOT understand why anyone votes Dem.

I simply CAN NOT understand how anyone can defend either party at this point. Both are now controlled by the radicals in their party. Joe Biden owns the left even though moderates have made it clear that he is too old and mentally unfit to serve another term. The right is owned by Donald Trump who seems to live in court rooms and has a screw loose in his brain. Either side could easily win the 2024 election if they put a competent candidate yet neither will for some odd reason. Why? Why are both sides scared of these old men? I am at the point where I will not vote for either Biden or Trump if those are the options in November. Not putting my name for either of these unfit candidates.

[Xville]

Skip this thread now because it's toxic, but if any of you get a chance take a peek at Alabama's ruling regarding IVF frozen embryos. It is a doozy of a decision.

I can take it personal because my wife and I had to use IVF to have any children at all. We had three remaining embryos that we chose to have destroyed after our children reached over a year old. Storage fees were $500/year. We actually forgot the first year and had to pay in arrears.

I am curious how Alabama will choose to legislate this ruling. Do they want to just penalize storage facilities? Will it hit the people like my family?

My hope is they choose to do nothing. IVF is cost prohibitive and families go into it trying to make the best odds they can in one shot. That typically means as many fertilized embryos as possible. This decision severely complicates this process.

My wife and I too were only able to conceive thru IVF as well. We had one embryo left that we kept for I believe either one or two years that we ultimately destroyed which honestly really saddens me to this day but after twins, we decided that we couldn't take on a third.

Anyways, it sounds like the Dems and Pubs in the state government are actually working together to fix the issue. For the time being though, it sucks for those families who are in the middle of this.

[Smails]

I simply CAN NOT understand how anyone can defend either party at this point. Both are now controlled by the radicals in their party. Joe Biden owns the left even though moderates have made it clear that he is too old and mentally unfit to serve another term. The right is owned by Donald Trump who seems to live in court rooms and has a screw loose in his brain. Either side could easily win the 2024 election if they put a competent candidate yet neither will for some odd reason. Why? Why are both sides scared of these old men? I am at the point where I will not vote for either Biden or Trump if those are the options in November. Not putting my name for either of these unfit candidates.

All of this. My father who is a life long Dem and thinks Donald Trump is the devil, told me that for the first time since he was eligible he will not be casting a ballot in the general if Biden is on the ticket. Voting GOP was never going to be an option for him, but he said he just can't bring himself to vote for an unfit candidate. I told him that not voting was basically giving a vote to Trump in Ohio and he said he doesn't give a rip. "I've never voted against anyone in my life and I'm too old to start now" Boomers and their principles..

[Xville]

All of this. My father who is a life long Dem and thinks Donald Trump is the devil, told me that for the first time since he was eligible he will not be casting a ballot in the general if Biden is on the ticket. Voting GOP was never going to be an option for him, but he said he just can't bring himself to vote for an unfit candidate. I told him that not voting was basically giving a vote to Trump in Ohio and he said he doesn't give a rip. "I've never voted against anyone in my life and I'm too old to start now" Boomers and their principles..

I'm right there with him. Not that my vote matters in Kentucky, but for the second consecutive election, it doesn't look like I'll be voting. I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils whoever that may be.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

My wife and I too were only able to conceive thru IVF as well. We had one embryo left that we kept for I believe either one or two years that we ultimately destroyed which honestly really saddens me to this day but after twins, we decided that we couldn't take on a third.

Anyways, it sounds like the Dems and Pubs in the state government are actually working together to fix the issue. For the time being though, it sucks for those families who are in the middle of this.

Careful, if I read it correct the Supreme Court of Alabama only called an embryo a child. There is no criminal law on the books yet to my knowledge. I was more curious what people thought on here about the possibility of laws in Alabama and how they might spread across more conservative states. Also the ramifications of such laws.

[STL_XUfan]

Careful, if I read it correct the Supreme Court of Alabama only called an embryo a child. There is no criminal law on the books yet to my knowledge. I was more curious what people thought on here about the possibility of laws in Alabama and how they might spread across more conservative states. Also the ramifications of such laws.

Thomas pretty well guaranteed it in his concurring opinion in Dobbs. He is openly inviting challengers so the Court could reconsider it positions on birth control, private consensual sex, and gay marriage ("For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell.")

I think there is a real fear of certain parts of the Country, especially in the South, becoming a theocracy.

Finally, the Alabama court ruling is so scary because it found that an embryo is a child in terms of an already written wrongful death statute. It is not a far leap to find those same embyos are children under the already written murder statute. It would make the actions taken by you and Xville murder. That is just fucking bat shit insane and a slap in the face of the countless numbers of families that have gone through this process in the hope of becoming parents or growing their family.

[Xville]

Thomas pretty well guaranteed it in his concurring opinion in Dobbs. He is openly inviting challengers so the Court could reconsider it positions on birth control, private consensual sex, and gay marriage ("For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell.")

I think there is a real fear of certain parts of the Country, especially in the South, becoming a theocracy.

Finally, the Alabama court ruling is so scary because it found that an embryo is a child in terms of an already written wrongful death statute. It is not a far leap to find those same embyos are children under the already written murder statute. It would make the actions taken by you and Xville murder. That is just fucking bat shit insane and a slap in the face of the countless numbers of families that have gone through this process in the hope of becoming parents or growing their family.

I may be wrong but I think this is the part the Alabama Dems and the Pubs saw in the ruling that they are quickly trying to legislate against. Correct? I thought that's what i read but maybe I dreamt that lol.

[STL_XUfan]

I may be wrong but I think this is the part the Alabama Dems and the Pubs saw in the ruling that they are quickly trying to legislate against. Correct? I thought that's what i read but maybe I dreamt that lol.
I do not know the ins and outs of Alabama law, but it would seem to me if it is based on an interpretation of the Alabama constitution, it would take a constitutional amendment to fix it (which may be possible through just the legislature, but I do not know).

[Xville]

I do not know the ins and outs of Alabama law, but it would seem to me if it is based on an interpretation of the Alabama constitution, it would take a constitutional amendment to fix it (which may be possible through just the legislature, but I do not know).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/alabama-gov-kay-ivey-we-are-working-on-a-solution-to-ivf-issues/ar-BB1iMu7v


This is something that I found.

[bobbiemcgee]

Sick wackos have a 1/6 pinball machine At Cpac

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I may be wrong but I think this is the part the Alabama Dems and the Pubs saw in the ruling that they are quickly trying to legislate against. Correct? I thought that's what i read but maybe I dreamt that lol.

I read through some of the opinion and I am not sure how they could legislate a fix. The opinion directly references embryos in or outside a womb. What makes this more interesting is that in my case I believe the storage facility was not in my home state. What is there are storage facilities in Alabama for patients not in that state and vice versa.

The other obvious issue I think the justice did not consider is whether residents could claim embryos on their state taxes as dependents and take the child tax credit. I knew instances of couples with one all the way up to ten embryos. Wife and I had I believe 14 eggs but just five embryos. The net gain on taxes would far exceed the storage fees.

What if a storage facility has a power outage caused by a severe storm/hurricane/tornado? Is that murder or manslaughter? I am having a real hard time understanding this decision.

FWIW, I am avoiding citations of the bible intentionally so the discussion doesn't go off the rails.

Basically in Alabama if you get IVF and succeed immensely with many embryos, you are on the hook for storage fees for life. Or, you have to donate/give your embryos up but have to understand you have children out in the world and know nothing of their care. Do those families have to sign away any parenting rights?

The issues are a massive quagmire of things to consider that would make the most intelligent lawmaker cringe.

[STL_XUfan]

I read through some of the opinion and I am not sure how they could legislate a fix. The opinion directly references embryos in or outside a womb. What makes this more interesting is that in my case I believe the storage facility was not in my home state. What is there are storage facilities in Alabama for patients not in that state and vice versa.

The other obvious issue I think the justice did not consider is whether residents could claim embryos on their state taxes as dependents and take the child tax credit. I knew instances of couples with one all the way up to ten embryos. Wife and I had I believe 14 eggs but just five embryos. The net gain on taxes would far exceed the storage fees.

What if a storage facility has a power outage caused by a severe storm/hurricane/tornado? Is that murder or manslaughter? I am having a real hard time understanding this decision.

FWIW, I am avoiding citations of the bible intentionally so the discussion doesn't go off the rails.

Basically in Alabama if you get IVF and succeed immensely with many embryos, you are on the hook for storage fees for life. Or, you have to donate/give your embryos up but have to understand you have children out in the world and know nothing of their care. Do those families have to sign away any parenting rights?

The issues are a massive quagmire of things to consider that would make the most intelligent lawmaker cringe.

The answers to question is there simply will not be IVF in Alabama anymore. Further, I think in a number of states taking hard stances on abortion you are going to have trouble finding competent pregnancy care, as those doctors will simply not want to risk their livelihood (and in the case of Texas) their freedom to provide necessary medical care.

[Muskie in dayton]

It’s not Democrats vs. Republicans. It’s the Government vs. the People.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm right there with him. Not that my vote matters in Kentucky, but for the second consecutive election, it doesn't look like I'll be voting. I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils whoever that may be.

I voted for Biden last go around, don't think I can vote for either guy this time. Will still go vote but will either skip that one or write in a name.

[GoMuskies]

I voted for Biden last go around, don't think I can vote for either guy this time. Will still go vote but will either skip that one or write in a name.

I voted Johnson in 2016 and wrote in Yang in 2020. No idea what I'll do this time, but given that I live in Kansas my vote doesn't really matter. Trump will get 60+% of the vote. Hell, if Biden is on the Dem line and there's no decent third party entrant, I might even join those 60%

[Xuperman]

I voted Johnson in 2016 and wrote in Yang in 2020. No idea what I'll do this time, but given that I live in Kansas my vote doesn't really matter. Trump will get 60+% of the vote. Hell, if Biden is on the Dem line and there's no decent third party entrant, I might even join those 60%

This country is in dire straits. Are we in a situation where the POTUS candidates have no universal public appeal? We are in a time where both candidates are personally unelectable, so your vote should be based on the party policies/agenda.

[GoMuskies]

This country is in dire straits. Are we in a situation where the POTUS candidates have no universal public appeal? We are in a time where both candidates are personally unelectable, so your vote should be based on the party policies/agenda.

That would mean Forward Party, I suppose.

[paulxu]

Many people are voting 3rd party this time, as our leading national party candidates have a total of 91 felony indictments between them.

[X-band '01]

Maybe 92 if Trump and Biden have a debate while Commander is present.

[STL_XUfan]

Maybe 92 if Trump and Biden have a debate while Commander is present.
I’m just waiting for the congressional hearing into the activities of Commander. He should be forced to answer MTG’s questions. The American people have a right to know if the presidents dog is in fact, a good boy.

[paulxu]

Who is Mercedes?

[bobbiemcgee]

The next Stormy trial will be extremely embarrassing for her.

[bobbiemcgee]

Banning "Welcome to the end of democracy"

[XU_Lou]

"The number of immigrants working over this period is up by 2.9 million, while 183,000 fewer US-born Americans are working."

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/02/immigration-job-gains-web.jpg?resize=1024,682&quality=75&strip=all


And Dems wonder why they're losing middle America:

https://nypost.com/2024/02/13/opinion/job-gains-are-going-to-immigrants-and-keeping-young-us-born-men-out-of-the-workforce/

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe Mike Johnson can get off his ass while children die. All sides have agreed on the border , ukraine , etc. except this motherfucker wants to keep his phony baloney job.

[XU_Lou]

Maybe Mike Johnson can get off his ass while children die. All sides have agreed on the border , ukraine , etc. except this motherfucker wants to keep his phony baloney job.

It's a bullshit bill and you know it. It's already been litigated on this board - go back a few pages. You lost that argument.

[paulxu]

Do you suppose that since 4 MILLION people reach retirement age this year, that it might have something to do with the number of US born people in the workforce?

[XU_Lou]

Do you suppose that since 4 MILLION people reach retirement age this year, that it might have something to do with the number of US born people in the workforce?

No

https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2023-08/camarota-lf-f6.jpg

https://cis.org/Report/WorkingAge-Not-Working

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

[paulxu]

Some folks don’t understand the difference between retirement age and working age.

[XU_Lou]

Some folks don’t understand the difference between retirement age and working age.

Some folks don't understand that younger generations come in and replace retirees. Sheesh! Really?

[paulxu]

I won’t try to explain to you negative birth rate, or how the boomer cohort is so much larger.
Maybe you’ll figure it out.

[XU_Lou]

I know perfectly well what you're talking about. However, charts 6 and 11 totally destroy your argument. There's virtually nothing to support your premise.

The labor participation rate of working age US-born men has declined significantly in recent decades. That rate, BTW, took a significant nose-dive during Obama's reign. It then made a decent improvement under Trump.

The labor participation rate of working age immigrants, on the other hand, has remained elevated - and has actually increased during Biden's tenure (these figures include illegal immigrants). This trend is also reflected in my original graph/post. Again, look at chart 11 (or do you not know how to read a graph?): https://cis.org/Report/WorkingAge-Not-Working


Additionally, the total population of working age US-born citizens has only declined by 67,000 from the prior year. So, apparently, there must be a helluva lot more 16 year-olds than you think (or, again, is this beyond your understanding of numbers and statistics?). See Table A-7: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

That same chart also shows labor participation rates for US citizens as being flat TY vs LY, while foreign-borns increased by a half percent.


Sorry, Paul, the NY Post article is correct: jobs are going to illegals under Bidenomics.

[Xville]

Oh no guys!! These immigrants are working!! They are Working the jobs that our uneducated us born guys don’t want to do! The horror!

[Xuperman]

They're here, so they need to be given the opportunity to work.....but easier said than done. For one, how would income tax and FICA apply? Maybe the 1099 option could work.

There are also some additional positives gained. It would give us an idea of the percentage willing to work, because the "Biden deal" is unsustainable. Also, and this is a big one, it would make it necessary to provide further documentation and some degree of a "paper trail". That will make mass deportation much easier, if common sense Americans can vote out this "Fundamentally Transform America" madness in November.

[xuwillie]

Oh no guys!! These immigrants are working!! They are Working the jobs that our uneducated us born guys don’t want to do! The horror!

Yes but that means the uneducated us born are sitting on their asses at home getting money from the government. That’s the problem

[xuwillie]

Oh no guys!! These immigrants are working!! They are Working the jobs that our uneducated us born guys don’t want to do! The horror!

Yes but that means the “uneducated” (I’d say smart and figured it out) us born are sitting on their asses at home getting paid by the government. That’s the problem

[Xville]

Yes but that means the “uneducated” (I’d say smart and figured it out) us born are sitting on their asses at home getting paid by the government. That’s the problem

Fair but that’s a different argument. Not a immigrant problem that buddy Lou is trying to convey

[XU_Lou]

The real questions are:

Why has the labor participation rate among working age US-born citizens declined in recent decades? Why has there been a net loss of 1.23 million jobs among US-born citizens since covid? During that same time period immigrant employment had a net increase of 3 million. Why?

Is it because US-born citizens are lazy? Are they still taking advantage of incentives to remain unemployed? How many of those are now part of the homeless crisis? How many have gone underground and become part of the criminal problem? Are US corporations taking advantage of lower wages and employment costs, and thus crowding Americans out of jobs?

Why did the labor participation rate among working age US-born citizens take a precipitous decline during the Obama years, and then remain at some of the lowest rates in US history during his entire tenure?

If illegals are taking jobs that Americans don't want, why isn't that reflected in the overall GDP? Why did the economy take a sub-par trajectory during the Obama years - at the same time Americans stopped working - and then never really recovered?

There was a 3.1% GDP growth trend that prevailed from 1965 through 2007 - then Obama broke it:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhguCOauhuRqPvDsEJ6wZc241Lg_W3DnzB4bRy1G4tgu-NQTgxjJ931pR2hFwxTCrImZLtUHJgTx5YnfW4NucVmkYAzFUOg i2-XCNp9nJQYXkUxeLbYNf0GHJI0HG4ibISHr7VmcHOv5nq4OmnjT xdsp4SdSRFS1ECkVJIj80o0hUtRvJOfc4iPiWc0IXY/s2379/2%20and%203%25%20trends.jpg


https://scottgrannis.blogspot.com/2023/10/growth-and-inflation-update-not-much-to.html

[bjf123]

Looks like Mitch McConnell will be stepping down from his leadership role in the Senate in November. Now, if we can only get Schumer to do that same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

The real questions are:

Why has the labor participation rate among working age US-born citizens declined in recent decades? Why has there been a net loss of 1.23 million jobs among US-born citizens since covid? During that same time period immigrant employment had a net increase of 3 million. Why?

Is it because US-born citizens are lazy? Are they still taking advantage of incentives to remain unemployed? How many of those are now part of the homeless crisis? How many have gone underground and become part of the criminal problem? Are US corporations taking advantage of lower wages and employment costs, and thus crowding Americans out of jobs?

Why did the labor participation rate among working age US-born citizens take a precipitous decline during the Obama years, and then remain at some of the lowest rates in US history during his entire tenure?

If illegals are taking jobs that Americans don't want, why isn't that reflected in the overall GDP? Why did the economy take a sub-par trajectory during the Obama years - at the same time Americans stopped working - and then never really recovered?

There was a 3.1% GDP growth trend that prevailed from 1965 through 2007 - then Obama broke it:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhguCOauhuRqPvDsEJ6wZc241Lg_W3DnzB4bRy1G4tgu-NQTgxjJ931pR2hFwxTCrImZLtUHJgTx5YnfW4NucVmkYAzFUOg i2-XCNp9nJQYXkUxeLbYNf0GHJI0HG4ibISHr7VmcHOv5nq4OmnjT xdsp4SdSRFS1ECkVJIj80o0hUtRvJOfc4iPiWc0IXY/s2379/2%20and%203%25%20trends.jpg


https://scottgrannis.blogspot.com/2023/10/growth-and-inflation-update-not-much-to.html

hey genius, what happened in 2007 thru about the middle of 2009? Let you in on a little secret, it wasn't Obama's fault though I know you love to blame the dems for everything bad thats ever happened to you.

[XU_Lou]

hey genius, what happened in 2007 thru about the middle of 2009? Let you in on a little secret, it wasn't Obama's fault though I know you love to blame the dems for everything bad thats ever happened to you.

Yes, you are correct about that the original crisis wasn't Obama's fault, but it was definitely the fault of Democrats and their liberal and foolish lending policies. Then, your boy Obama, who you think represents "normal times" (15 years ago = the beginning of Obama's tenure, LOL) did absolutely nothing to fix the economy during the next 8 years. As a result, we got Trump.

BTW, I'm sorry to hear you don't have any lead in your pencil. I wouldn't think that it would affect your ability to think, or cause you to become a bleeding heart liberal.

[Xville]

Yes, you are correct about that the original crisis wasn't Obama's fault, but it was definitely the fault of Democrats and their liberal and foolish lending policies. Then, your boy Obama, who you think represents "normal times" (15 years ago = the beginning of Obama's tenure, LOL) did absolutely nothing to fix the economy during the next 8 years. As a result, we got Trump.

BTW, I'm sorry to hear you don't have any lead in your pencil. I wouldn't think that it would affect your ability to think, or cause you to become a bleeding heart liberal.

You really don't understand economics and you really don't understand what actually happened. But it is hysterical having you complain about deregulation and not enough government. lol

And again, just because I don't blame one side for every one of my problems doesn't mean I represent the other side. I use facts not biased out of context nonsense for how things occur.

[xuphan]

Looks like Mitch McConnell will be stepping down from his leadership role in the Senate in November. Now, if we can only get Schumer to do that same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ya, amazing that with all the political divide on this board and across the country that the average Americans canÂ’t come together and pressure Congress on term limits. Lou and Paul go round and round on the same issues but donÂ’t both jointly agree on widely supported issues like mandating term limits in Congress. Who wants Pelosi and McConnell still in congress at their ages?

[XU_Lou]

I'm not sure which of the last two posts are more insane...

[Xville]

I'm not sure which of the last two posts are more insane...

Look inward

[Xville]

Ya, amazing that with all the political divide on this board and across the country that the average Americans canÂ’t come together and pressure Congress on term limits. Lou and Paul go round and round on the same issues but donÂ’t both jointly agree on widely supported issues like mandating term limits in Congress. Who wants Pelosi and McConnell still in congress at their ages?

Lou likes them senile. Makes them relatable.

[94GRAD]

I'm not sure which of the last two posts are more insane...

It's this one!!!!

[XU_Lou]

all the libs be like flailing lately...

can any of you make a cogent argument?