Politics Thread

[Juice]

What does that have to do with Ken Blackwell's "faulty logic"? I mean, he was Ohio Secretary of State?! If there was such a concern, especially since he touted his ability to work in a bipartisan manner so effectively, why didn't he fix the problems here, in the state he used as an example?

Because he held that position ten plus years ago

[KC4X]

Because he held that position ten plus years ago

1. He used the Jimmy Carter election as the example.
2. He stated that it's been an issue for years.

Apparently, republicans want to cede as much power and responsibility to the states unless they can use it to influence elections. Why,for example, would they ever need party?

To clarify and in fairness, both parties do everything they can to gain advantages, such as gerrymandering. Democrats certainly aren't innocent.

[Juice]

Donld Trump Jr. joins the CNN fun

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWSzpZGDZ5S/

[bobbiemcgee]

Donld Trump Jr. joins the CNN fun

YEP, met with the ruskies to get dirt on Hillary.

[paulxu]

That was the third story...right after "no meeting" and "meeting for adopting kids."

[Caf]

Yet another report that means nothing on its own but raises more questions. Apparently Mueller is now looking into possible Russian financial contributions to the campaign.

[Snipe]

Investigating Russian connections for close to a year now. So much to show for it.

It will be nice when the election is over.

[SemajParlor]

Donld Trump Jr. joins the CNN fun

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWSzpZGDZ5S/


Switch out CNN for Treason.

[Caf]

I think Donald Trump Jr. is officially the most damaging leaker of private information.

[SemajParlor]

Donnie!!!!

[STL_XUfan]

I think Donald Trump Jr. is officially the most damaging leaker of private information.
All I can think of while reading this story:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/d2b568811dedffd0eed0e82ef3a1012b/tumblr_n6gkqjehIm1td0mfho1_1280.jpg

[XUFan09]

All I can think of while reading this story:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/d2b568811dedffd0eed0e82ef3a1012b/tumblr_n6gkqjehIm1td0mfho1_1280.jpg
Hahahaha that scene was perfect.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump sez family finances are off limits. Mueller sez "Hold my Beer". Get the Popcorn.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Trump sez family finances are off limits. Mueller sez "Hold my Beer". Get the Popcorn.

Why do I think this is another Whitewater coming around?

When I read this all I could think of was the scene in the Dragon Tattoo...Daniel Craig wants access to company records and the old man tells his lawyer hey what could possible be in there? The lawyer responds, 50 years of doing business so probably a lot.

[bobbiemcgee]

Looks like Mc Cain stuck it to the Trumpster.

[Juice]

Looks like Mc Cain stuck it to the Trumpster.

The roller coaster of emotions of people who were praying for McCain, then wished he would have died instead, and now are calling him a hero again has been something fun to watch.

[Lloyd Braun]

The roller coaster of emotions of people who were praying for McCain, then wished he would have died instead, and now are calling him a hero again has been something fun to watch.

Who wished him dead? Cmon.

It's way more entertaining to watch him be a "loser", then a "hero" for coming back to vote, and now a loser again.

[X-man]

Who wished him dead? Cmon.

It's way more entertaining to watch him be a "hero", then a "loser" for coming back to vote, and now a "hero" again.

Fixed that for you.

[Juice]

Who wished him dead? Cmon.

It's way more entertaining to watch him be a "loser", then a "hero" for coming back to vote, and now a loser again.

I can find you 100 plus examples of people on Twitter who wished him dead. A lot of them were writers for liberal rags.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/07/no-time-civility-towards-republicans-even-john-mccain


On Tuesday, Senator John McCain took time out from state-funded brain cancer treatment to vote to aid a bill that will deny that same medical care to millions of poorer citizens. In response, ordinary US citizens cursed and insulted him and in some cases wished him dead.

[Lloyd Braun]

I can find you 100 plus examples of people on Twitter who wished him dead. A lot of them were writers for liberal rags.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/07/no-time-civility-towards-republicans-even-john-mccain

I didn't say nobody wished him dead. I said "who wished him dead?" People on twitter wished him dead... nobody who has a brain or was legitimately praying for him the wished him dead. However on the flip side our president (!) called him a loser then a hero. If McCain didn't have cancer I could guarantee he would be a loser today too.

[STL_XUfan]

I can find you 100 plus examples of people on Twitter who wished him dead. A lot of them were writers for liberal rags.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/07/no-time-civility-towards-republicans-even-john-mccain

And this morning I can find you a similar number of people on Twitter wishing him dead for the exact opposite reason. I think we can all agree that we should ignore the insane people on Twitter yelling into the void.

[Caf]

I can find you 100 plus examples of people on Twitter who wished him dead. A lot of them were writers for liberal rags.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/07/no-time-civility-towards-republicans-even-john-mccain

More numerous were the people saying he was cutting other people's cancer treatments as he was receiving them.

Agree or disagree with him, his past week is the stuff of Profiles in Courage.

[XUFan09]

And this morning I can find you a similar number of people on Twitter wishing him dead for the exact opposite reason. I think we can all agree that we should ignore the insane people on Twitter yelling into the void.

But then we wouldn't have the opportunity to feel so self-righteous about the other side. Doesn't everyone like to engage in ad hominem fallacies?

[Caf]

But then we wouldn't have the opportunity to feel so self-righteous about the other side. Doesn't everyone like to engage in ad hominem fallacies?

Big nerd post alert. I'm very interested to see how historians measure the impact the internet had on this era. Internet echo chambers, people only reading what they agree with, and talking to who they agree with is obviously causing enormous polarization. It's probably also making people dumber while they think they're getting smarter.

[STL_XUfan]

Big nerd post alert. I'm very interested to see how historians measure the impact the internet had on this era. Internet echo chambers, people only reading what they agree with, and talking to who they agree with is obviously causing enormous polarization. It's probably also making people dumber while they think they're getting smarter.

Are you trying to tell me there is a chance that Brawndo doesn't have what plants crave?

[muskiefan82]

Are you trying to tell me there is a chance that Brawndo doesn't have what plants crave?

Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got Electrolytes.

[X-band '01]

While John Kelly Jr. replaces Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff, it's possible that Priebus may or may not have gotten the Lane Kiffin treatment on a tarmac.

[Lloyd Braun]

Big nerd post alert. I'm very interested to see how historians measure the impact the internet had on this era. Internet echo chambers, people only reading what they agree with, and talking to who they agree with is obviously causing enormous polarization. It's probably also making people dumber while they think they're getting smarter.

It is fascinating. The question really is: will there be any historians? If so I don't think anyone will really care unfortunately.

[Muskie]

Scarmucci Out (ten days after being hired).

[Caf]

NY Post cover 7/28 (http://nypost.com/cover/covers-for-july-28-2017/)

This is now the best timed newspaper cover ever. 2 of 7 down since it was published, on Friday....

[STL_XUfan]

Scarmucci Out (ten days after being hired).

And yet still 16 days from his "official" start date.

[bobbiemcgee]

Scarmucci Out (ten days after being hired).

Lovefest over. Maybe he told Trump to F* off and s* his baloney.

[GoMuskies]

We fucked around with Korea for how many years? Now, when it looks like we actually HAVE to do something, we have Donald Trump in the White House. Sweet.

[GoMuskies]

Scarmucci Out (ten days after being hired).

Maybe Kelly actually knows what he's doing and is doing a full reset now that he's Chief of Staff to clean up this White House (Mr. President, please report to the golf course for the next 42 months).

But probably not.

[Caf]

Force Reince Priebus out, get fired by his replacement. Congratulations, you played yourself.

[Caf]

I still wonder why past administrations let China get away with so much.... Hm it must be because they were softy cucks. OR maybe they were smart enough to know China was the only nation that could pacify the North Korean threat.

Trump lambasted China for over a year on the campaign trail, got elected and informed that we need them to prevent a second Korean War, and just tweets that they should help us. Where are the trade wars you repeatedly promised Donnie? This temperamental moron only understands intimidation and force.

Get ready for war ladies and gentlemen. China is going to flip the bird to this fool and laugh knowing they now have a strategic advantage on the world stage for the next decade. I hope you morons that voted for DJT feel safe knowing transgenders will sit this one out.

[bobbiemcgee]

Damn. I knew I should have moved to Grand Cayman instead of Guam!:stop:

[SemajParlor]

I'm going to be so pissed if we don't see Blueitt and Macura's senior year because of a nuclear holocaust.

[Snipe]

The roller coaster of emotions of people who were praying for McCain, then wished he would have died instead, and now are calling him a hero again has been something fun to watch.

John McCain is not a hero in my book. I think he is a dirtbag. One of my most hated men in politics. I seriously think he sold out the POWs and undercut the investigations into finding out who we left behind in Nam. He and the POS Kerry. They both could die and I wouldn't care.

[muskiefan82]

I met McCain years ago while I was in the Army. I thought he was a dick then. My opinion hasn't changed. It has nothing to do with his politics. I just found HIM to be a dick.

[bobbiemcgee]

You know that Trump played 16 years of sports and went to military school, then evaded for a bone scrap on his tootsie. I'll take the guys who served.

[SemajParlor]

Yeesh.

[muskiefan82]

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Donald Trump believes that white people are superior to all other people. I know it's a big leap, but let's make that assumption (all in sarcasm font). If so, then how colossally stupid is he? He has to know that these types of statements will never fly, but he just makes them. Again and again. So, even if, for WHATEVER reason, you voted for this pathetic person, you have to acknowledge that he is clearly the stupidest, most idiotic president that this country has ever had. If your agenda is hate, you have to know that you can't acknowledge it so openly, right? Especially as a politician, unless you're a total idiot. I just don't get it. Or is this country no better now than it was 150 years ago? Or even 50? I can only hope that this type of language will finally be the thing that makes Congress get it and come together. This has to stop. Crazy times.

[GoMuskies]

Trump is a political buffoon, but he also isn't exactly wrong here. The white nationalists are pieces of shit. Some of the people who came to counter-protest aren't much if any better, quite frankly. The alt-right and antifa can both get fucked.

The only people coming out of this looking good in my eyes (and they're getting a ton of shit) are the ACLU. Bravo to them for their consistency in standing up for the civil liberties of ALL Americans. Even the ones they despise.

[paulxu]

I'm reminded why it is not good to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.

[Caf]

Trump is a political buffoon, but he also isn't exactly wrong here. The white nationalists are pieces of shit. Some of the people who came to counter-protest aren't much if any better, quite frankly.

Even if you take this angle you have to acknowledge that Trump is wrong to even try and clarify the situation. Someone died at the hands of a white supremacist, there is no need for the President of our country to play devil's advocate here. Express your sympathy to the deceased and their family, condemn violence, call for peace and shut up. That person didn't die because the counter protest got out of hand. Sure there were brawls and assaults both ways, but there was one person who crossed the line to terrorism and intentionally took a life. It's by the grace of God that he didn't take more. He must've hit 10 people at least.

Also your angle is absolute bull. We all know this man and his insistence on calling out violence "for what it is" when it's convenient for his agenda.

[GoMuskies]

Even if you take this angle you have to acknowledge that Trump is wrong to even try and clarify the situation.

That's why I said he's a political buffoon. He can "not be wrong" and still be saying something he shouldn't. Does him no good.

[chico]

I tell my kids there's a time and a place for things. This was not the time nor the place for Trump to go off on the left wing wackos. He's had ample chance to do so, and if he had come out at the beginning and denounced the rally there would have been enough distance that he could have easily denounced the yahoos who took down the monument - notwithstanding the unintentional comedy of people trying to kick the statue. When someone dies it's not really a good idea to lead with "yeah, but."

Neither he nor anyone else in his inner circle have any concept of context.

[SemajParlor]

Neither he nor anyone else in his inner circle have any concept of context.

No, some of them do.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/897616420854317056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.news.yahoo.com%2Ftrump-apos-chief-staff-grimaces-153835570.html

[Caf]

That's why I said he's a political buffoon. He can "not be wrong" and still be saying something he shouldn't. Does him no good.

I read that part, still disagree. It is inaccurate to point to counter protests and "many sides", because they didn't put the pedal to the metal into a group of people. Unless his point is they are partly responsible because they were there in the first place? In which case he is still wrong. He's wrong literally as well as ethically/morally, and yes, politically.

[GoMuskies]

One dude put the pedal to the medal. He's the biggest asshole. But he certainly wasn't the only asshole involved. There were assholes all around C-ville this past weekend, and to no one's surprise it led to a situation that really stunk.

[Mrs. Garrett]

One dude put the pedal to the medal. He's the biggest asshole. But he certainly wasn't the only asshole involved. There were assholes all around C-ville this past weekend, and to no one's surprise it led to a situation that really stunk.

I have a hard time classifying people protesting nazi's as assholes.

[GoMuskies]

I have a hard time classifying people protesting nazi's as assholes.

People just protesting Nazis? No. People who come with weapons with every intention of getting into a violent confrontation with them? Definitely.

[Mrs. Garrett]

People just protesting Nazis? No. People who come with weapons with every intention of getting into a violent confrontation with them? Definitely.

So you side with nazis? That's good look for this message board.

Both my grandfathers fought in WWII. I guess you learned nothing from what happened in Germany.

[Caf]

One dude put the pedal to the medal. He's the biggest asshole. But he certainly wasn't the only asshole involved. There were assholes all around C-ville this past weekend, and to no one's surprise it led to a situation that really stunk.

I can't fathom why anyone would feel the need to clarify that there were other bad people there. wtf does that have to do with driving a car into a crowd?

[GoMuskies]

So you side with nazis?

LOL. Give me a break.

This has nothing to do with what happened in Germany. These are a couple hundred pasty white dudes who needed a break from playing Call of Duty in their parents' basements. But they ARE American ciitzens. Thus, they do have the right to assemble without being physically attacked.

[GoMuskies]

I can't fathom why anyone would feel the need to clarify that there were other bad people there. wtf does that have to do with driving a car into a crowd?

It doesn't have anything to do with driving a car into a crowd. But that's not the only thing that happened in C-ville on Saturday.

[SemajParlor]

If the 2016 election taught me anything, it's that there are only a couple hundred pasty white dudes that share these sentiments.

[Caf]

It doesn't have anything to do with driving a car into a crowd. But that's not the only thing that happened in C-ville on Saturday.

Tbh if no one died and Trump came out and said "many sides" he probably would have gotten away with it. However, to say that after what happened is an absolute disgrace. To even bring anything else up is to either diminish the significance of lost life, or to conflate aggressive protesting and murder.

[GoMuskies]

If it's all (and only) about the woman being killed, then just this one asshole should be singled out for blame.

[SemajParlor]

So you side with nazis? That's good look for this message board.

I may disagree with Go on some things, but he's the least of the problems with some posters on this board. Have to defend him there.

[GetUp5]

Pasty white dudes, who are reprehensible human beings, assemble for a white supremacist rally, in which they had a permit for.

All 50 alt-left groups violently attack said assembly.

Pasty white dude drives car into crowd and kills someone.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills these days. Looking at that objectively, both sides are to blame. Is it 60/40? 70/30? 50/50? I don't know, and don't think it matters, but both sides are definitely to blame.

The alt-left and alt-right are like 5% of the population with the 95% of normal people stuck in the middle looking at everything going on like, WTF? Let's hope those 95% stay in the middle. The worst thing that could happen is either side gaining support and numbers.

[GoMuskies]

The alt-left and alt-right are like 5% of the population

Good god let's hope it's less than that!

[GetUp5]

Good god let's hope it's less than that!

Round numbers are easy to visualize.

[GoMuskies]

Round numbers are easy to visualize.

Let's use 1.0% (nice and round!) to help me sleep better at night. :)

[SemajParlor]

Blaming all sides for this feels like making the student section go to a reflection session.

[SemajParlor]

Ignoring that a lot of Trump’s campaign rhetoric was being the voice for people with these beliefs, filled with hatred and fear mongering continues to be a historically poor stance. It doesn’t take a genius to understand most people who supported him are not extremist hateful people. But casting those people who were in Charlottesville off to the side as coincidences to the Trump hate spewing, fear instilling bullshit that runs this country is something I don’t agree with. Trump not making a statement until “waiting for the facts” has never been in his decision making strategy. Whether you like or dislike our President- this is some of the baggage that comes along with it.

https://twitter.com/markberman/status/897631332687384577

[Caf]

A quote I read in WSJ put it well.


Eli Mosley, director of events for Identity Evropa—a group describing itself as “a generation of awakened Europeans”—and one of the Charlottesville rally’s organizers, said Mr. Trump gave groups like his “a megaphone” for their “message and ideas.”

“I would say Trump is not one of us, however he does have an implicit sense of white identity,” he said. “Maybe he doesn’t realize it, but he’s distinctly implying it.”

[paulxu]

Let's use 1.0% (nice and round!) to help me sleep better at night. :)

Let's not, and say we did. 1.0% is 3.2 million. Ack!

[Nigel Tufnel]

Anyone watch Vice News on the protests? Vice is left...but after having watching their footage from the rallies....man...it appeared the white supremacists came prepared. They had shields and helmets...and most of the altercations on Vice's show were started by the counter protesters. I think this is exactly what those reprehensible turds wanted.

I just don't know why people can't ignore a bunch of pasty redneck racists. If nobody showed up and the media didn't acknowledge them...it would have just been a bunch of smelly fat racists chanting together with nobody paying the least bit of attention to them.

[bobbiemcgee]

Anyone watch Vice News on the protests? Vice is left...but after having watching their footage from the rallies....man...it appeared the white supremacists came prepared. They had shields and helmets...and most of the altercations on Vice's show were started by the counter protesters. I think this is exactly what those reprehensible turds wanted.

I just don't know why people can't ignore a bunch of pasty redneck racists. If nobody showed up and the media didn't acknowledge them...it would have just been a bunch of smelly fat racists chanting together with nobody paying the least bit of attention to them.

https://watchingthewheelsdad.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/11217552_1007373069283280_1405110123853804510_n.jp g

[Caf]

If it's all (and only) about the woman being killed, then just this one asshole should be singled out for blame.

Man he didn't even mention the death in his initial comments.

[bobbiemcgee]

The Nazi's killed millions in WWII. I wouldn't classify them as "fine people" as trump did.

[paulxu]

Anyone watch Vice News on the protests?

If you watched it, you remember the guy with all the guns talking about what he was going to do?

Here's what he's doing now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyeTj002DCo

[Nigel Tufnel]

If you watched it, you remember the guy with all the guns talking about what he was going to do?

Here's what he's doing now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyeTj002DCo

I think that's probably propaganda. These turds came prepared. They are wanting to incite violence from the left....or who the fuck ever. But they are succeeding in making this a media circus. Why can't everyone come to their senses and just ignore these morons? Ignore them....they go away.

[Caf]

Why can't everyone come to their senses and just ignore these morons? Ignore them....they go away.

Well I don't know your race, but let's just say you're not white, or that you're Jewish. These guys come into your neighborhood and protest your very presence in your home country. I agree that it would be wise not to react, but I can't pretend to be able to relate to that situation.

For sympathizers it's a case of, "first they came for the... and I did not speak out". People don't take kindly to the rhetoric of some of the worst atrocities in human history.

[GoMuskies]

Came across this on another board. It's fairly awesome.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHXo7E7V0AAyaTs.jpg:large
https://twitter.com/search?q=cleve%20jones&src=typd
Nazis coming to town? Here's a positive and creative response.

[kyxu]

Well I don't know your race, but let's just say you're not white, or that you're Jewish. These guys come into your neighborhood and protest your very presence in your home country. I agree that it would be wise not to react, but I can't pretend to be able to relate to that situation.

For sympathizers it's a case of, "first they came for the... and I did not speak out". People don't take kindly to the rhetoric of some of the worst atrocities in human history.

This. Which is why I won't accept the "ignore them and they'll go away" advice.

[Snipe]

People just protesting Nazis? No. People who come with weapons with every intention of getting into a violent confrontation with them? Definitely.


So you side with nazis? That's good look for this message board.

Both my grandfathers fought in WWII. I guess you learned nothing from what happened in Germany.

GoMuskies is a Nazi! Punish him!

[Snipe]

I side with the ACLU and the First Amendment on this one. Free speech for Nazis is free speech for everyone.

I believe the violence at the riot was because of the leftist anarchists ANTIFA. It isn't the first time that they have used violent means to shut down other's freedom of expression. And not all of the people that they have assaulted are Nazis. I think they are a terrorist organization. The media don't report about that side much, and nobody is asked to disown or condemn them. The Virginia Governors own son has been arrested for being one of them.

Antifa has been at this for some time. When the press doesn't report it, it encourages them and makes society more dangerous. Think about this specific incident. How is this not a win for Antifa? And they were at it again right after this event, destroying property and assaulting cops.

[GoMuskies]

Why is Trump talking about Confederate statues now? I can't think of an issue more local than this one. If the people that live somewhere want them up, leave them up. If they want them down, take them down. Pretty easy.

[Snipe]

I think that they are all coming down. And not just Confederate statues. In that same park is a statue of Jefferson and one day that will come down as well. He is a slave owning rapist, and if you protest ripping down Jefferson you will be declared a Nazi and an enemy of the people.

Lincoln was a racist who openly believed that black people were inferior and would never be equal to whites. Washington was another Virginia slave holder like Jefferson. Teddy Roosevelt was an ardent supporter of eugenics and White Supremacy. There, I just took down Mt Rushmore.

I think they are all coming down, and anyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi racist.

[Snipe]

It is easy to see where this is going. Again, I don't see how any of it ends well.

Multiculturalism!

[GoMuskies]

Well, you already know that I side with the Nazis....

[Caf]

It is easy to see where this is going. Again, I don't see how any of it ends well.

Multiculturalism!

Where is this going? To a place with less statues?

[Snipe]

yes

[Caf]

yes

We must act!

[Caf]

yes

btw, what do you think the National Language should be?

[Caf]

yes

oh and should we remove the word "God" from of the pledge of allegiance?

[Snipe]

btw, what do you think the National Language should be?


oh and should we remove the word "God" from of the pledge of allegiance?

English, and No. Unless the unruly mob wants otherwise.

[GoMuskies]

btw, what do you think the National Language should be?

"Murican. Duh.

[Caf]

English, and No. Unless the unruly mob wants otherwise.

Ok good. Let's hold the line on these to ensure they don't take our country!!

[Snipe]

I say we take down lady liberty...


Immigrants did not actually see the Statue of Liberty in large numbers until after its unveiling. In the early twentieth century, the statue became a popular symbol for nativists and white supremacists.


for black Americans the Statue of Liberty has also long symbolized America's failure to protect their civil rights. In the early 1900s, many African Americans were victims of white supremacists and nativists who used the statue to represent their exclusionary views. Since then, continuing ambiguity among African Americans about whether to embrace “Liberty” hopefully or scorn it as a symbol of American hypocrisy has been expressed in numerous works of art, political debates, and, on at least one occasion, violent protest.


In the early 20th century, African Americans died because of the perverse appropriation of the statue’s symbolism by white racists.

Lady Liberty is a tool of White Supremacy! They should dynamite that witch! And if you don't agree with me you are a Nazi.

Quotes are from the National Park Service btw

[Caf]

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/898264266070908929

[bobbiemcgee]

I say we take down lady liberty...







Lady Liberty is a tool of White Supremacy! They should dynamite that witch! And if you don't agree with me you are a Nazi.


We should get General Pershing on that right away.

[94GRAD]

We should get General Pershing on that right away.

He should have never invented his rifle!

[GoMuskies]

Ok good. Let's hold the line on these to ensure they don't take our country!!

I think most of "they" would be good with the God. Less so with the English.

[BandAid]

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/898264266070908929

Now this is funny.

[Caf]

ACLU announced they won't defend protesters looking to carry firearms anymore.

[GoMuskies]

ACLU announced they won't defend protesters looking to carry firearms anymore.

ACLU pussing out. Sad.

[Juice]

ACLU announced they won't defend protesters looking to carry firearms anymore.

ACLU - we now defend most civil liberties

[bobbiemcgee]

Yates, Comey, Short, Dubke, Christie, Flynn, Bharara, Shaub, Walsh, Mooch, Priebus, Spicey, and Bannon in 7 months.. Can he fire Pence?

[GoMuskies]

No one killed in a very bizarre rally in Boston over the weekend. The "counter protesters" were very violent, though. They were apparently pissed no Nazis showed up.

[Masterofreality]

The ACLU got a taste of what it's like when they're "Racist" (SMH)

The response tweets to their original "White Kid Picture Tweet" are exactly why this country is doomed. If you want a Sociology lesson find that tweet and read the ridiculous accusatory responses.

2192

[GoMuskies]

I read some of the replies to that tweet. People are insane.

The ACLU clearly isn't left leaning enough. They are going to be punished.

[Snipe]

The ACLU got a taste of what it's like when they're "Racist" (SMH)

The response tweets to their original "White Kid Picture Tweet" are exactly why this country is doomed. If you want a Sociology lesson find that tweet and read the ridiculous accusatory responses.

2192

A growing segment of the population does not like White people.

[bobbiemcgee]

A growing segment of the population does not like White people.


We should build a wall and gets Black Lives Matter to pay for it.

[Caf]

I've seen this making the rounds of conservative snow flakes AND liberal snowflakes. That's pretty rare.

Definitely some crazily heavy handed responses but also a head scratching tweet. I still don't know exactly what they were going for. Assuming they're selling the kids shirt? Weird wording

[Masterofreality]

I've seen this making the rounds of conservative snow flakes AND liberal snowflakes. That's pretty rare.

Definitely some crazily heavy handed responses but also a head scratching tweet. I still don't know exactly what they were going for. Assuming they're selling the kids shirt? Weird wording

What is "head scratching" about it? They are clearly supporting free speech forever. They just made the errrrr, *mistake* of putting the *wrong* racial type on there.

The reacts are ludicrous.

[Emp]

I'm troubled as well by the ACLU turn to the left. I'm a card carrier.

And yet........They're still defending the Confederate memorials protesters right to assemble. I'm troubled by the guns, but there is still a Second Amendment, as loathsome as armed protesters are. And as troubling as the anti gay military funeral protesters are, the ACLU has defended them.
The First Amendment covers us all.

I don't see any other non governmental orgs stepping up to broadly protect the right to assemble. Am I missing something?

The consequences of armed right wing protestors could be....armed left wing protesters. Is this what we want?

[GoMuskies]

And yet........They're still defending the Confederate memorials protesters right to assemble.

They did last time, and I thought they were the only good guys in the whole situation. But they seem to be wavering post-C'ville.

[Caf]

What is "head scratching" about it? They are clearly supporting free speech forever. They just made the errrrr, *mistake* of putting the *wrong* racial type on there.

The reacts are ludicrous.

I agree that the reactions are ridiculous, but not surprising given the content. What I think is head scratching is the tweet just doesn't even make sense. They clarified that the future they want is babies in ACLU onesies. What an ineffective way of communicating that.

Probably the only thing dumber than getting upset about that tweet, is getting upset about people getting upset about that tweet.

[GoMuskies]

I think it's just frightening how fucking crazy way too many people are.

[Caf]

I think it's just frightening how fucking crazy way too many people are.

There's not that many crazy people. Twitter, white nationalist rallies, etc. are just self selecting samples of pissed off crazy people.

[bobbiemcgee]

"Our only choice - our only choice is to live together as sisters and brothers or perish as fools" - MLK

Related:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/24/our-only-way-forward-is-together/

[paulxu]

Appreciate the link, Bobbie.

[Snipe]

I think that they are all coming down. And not just Confederate statues. In that same park is a statue of Jefferson and one day that will come down as well. He is a slave owning rapist, and if you protest ripping down Jefferson you will be declared a Nazi and an enemy of the people.

Lincoln was a racist who openly believed that black people were inferior and would never be equal to whites. Washington was another Virginia slave holder like Jefferson. Teddy Roosevelt was an ardent supporter of eugenics and White Supremacy. There, I just took down Mt Rushmore.

I think they are all coming down, and anyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi racist.


I still think they are all coming down. That is my future prediction. I can't see how anyone can justify statues of slave owners when the mob gets angry at them. White people don't want to be racist in the face of angry minorities. The only people defending them will be labeled Nazis and White Supremacists.

Abe Lincoln said horrible things about Black people. He really did. How can the mob let that stand? They won't.

This has been in the works for awhile. White Supremacy is everywhere, even the ACLU has had to apologize for it. If the ACLU has to apologize to the mob there is no hope for you. White people are evil. We came here and killed the natives. We enslaved the black man. We took the brown man's California and repressed him. We excluded the yellow man. And we are even guilty of colonialism even though we didn't have many colonies.

The White man is becoming a minority in the country, and our Universities have been teaching about the wrongs of the White man for quite some time.

To confess, I really had nothing to do with slavery. Not one thing. I can even show you a timeline. But people are pissed about slavery in 2017. I am pretty sure people will be pissed about slavery in 2027 & and 2037. Silly me, I thought Bill Clinton had already apologized for it.

White guilt is for White people to be ashamed of their ancestors from people who take no responsibility over their own children. Can't see how this ends well. Don't see it getting better next year, when we ring in 2018. I can't imagine these arguments ever going away. I will be dead and gone and my children will be hounded by the same arguments. Get used to it, it is only going to expand and continue. For my take, I say tear it all down, even the racist Statue of Liberty. The Lincoln Monument needs a recking ball. Mt Rushmore needs to be eradicated. I am on the right side of history, and I wanted it to be documented before the purge.

The esteemed Bolshevik Vladimir Lenin said that all politics comes down to the question of Who/Whom? Who gets to do what to Whom? And that isn't a bad distillation of tribal politics in a multi-cultural society. They are taking down Confederate monuments but calling for Jefferson, Washington and Mt Rushmore. An Ohio town had a statue of the revolutionary war hero decapitated yesterday. A Catholic School in San Antonio just took down statues of Mary and Jesus as to not provide offense. A little baby wearing a free speech onesie with a flag marks the ACLU as a White Supremacist organization.

Things are accelerating fast. Society may be near collapse. People are talking about Civil War and the failure of Democracy. I am not sure how and when this ends, but again, I don't think it ends well.

[vee4xu]

Wow, 3:36 a.m. I think I got up to pee about that time. At any rate, I prefer to think it's always darkest before the dawn. This stuff going on today has been bubbling beneath the surface for decades and the current President has provided an opportunity to finally spill out into the open. For the record, I am no Trump supporter or apologist, but the pragmatist in me says that his lunacy has brought the topic front and center, hopefully to be addressed and put to bed once and for all. I have no idea how this whole shit-storm ends, but the optimist in me wants to believe it will address the wounds and over time (probably a long time) allow them to heal. The old saying is that the first step to overcoming any problem is to first admit it exists. Well, I pretty sure that Charlottesville and Mr. Trump's response to it in Trump Tower achieved that much. Now, hopefully we heal.




I still think they are all coming down. That is my future prediction. I can't see how anyone can justify statues of slave owners when the mob gets angry at them. White people don't want to be racist in the face of angry minorities. The only people defending them will be labeled Nazis and White Supremacists.

Abe Lincoln said horrible things about Black people. He really did. How can the mob let that stand? They won't.

This has been in the works for awhile. White Supremacy is everywhere, even the ACLU has had to apologize for it. If the ACLU has to apologize to the mob there is no hope for you. White people are evil. We came here and killed the natives. We enslaved the black man. We took the brown man's California and repressed him. We excluded the yellow man. And we are even guilty of colonialism even though we didn't have many colonies.

The White man is becoming a minority in the country, and our Universities have been teaching about the wrongs of the White man for quite some time.

To confess, I really had nothing to do with slavery. Not one thing. I can even show you a timeline. But people are pissed about slavery in 2017. I am pretty sure people will be pissed about slavery in 2027 & and 2037. Silly me, I thought Bill Clinton had already apologized for it.

White guilt is for White people to be ashamed of their ancestors from people who take no responsibility over their own children. Can't see how this ends well. Don't see it getting better next year, when we ring in 2018. I can't imagine these arguments ever going away. I will be dead and gone and my children will be hounded by the same arguments. Get used to it, it is only going to expand and continue. For my take, I say tear it all down, even the racist Statue of Liberty. The Lincoln Monument needs a recking ball. Mt Rushmore needs to be eradicated. I am on the right side of history, and I wanted it to be documented before the purge.

The esteemed Bolshevik Vladimir Lenin said that all politics comes down to the question of Who/Whom? Who gets to do what to Whom? And that isn't a bad distillation of tribal politics in a multi-cultural society. They are taking down Confederate monuments but calling for Jefferson, Washington and Mt Rushmore. An Ohio town had a statue of the revolutionary war hero decapitated yesterday. A Catholic School in San Antonio just took down statues of Mary and Jesus as to not provide offense. A little baby wearing a free speech onesie with a flag marks the ACLU as a White Supremacist organization.

Things are accelerating fast. Society may be near collapse. People are talking about Civil War and the failure of Democracy. I am not sure how and when this ends, but again, I don't think it ends well.

[STL_XUfan]

Looks like Ted Cruz needs a lesson that your "favorites" on Twitter are public.

Do you think he goes with the "I was hacked" excuse or are interns drawing straws this morning to see who is the sacrificial lamb?

[Juice]

Looks like Ted Cruz needs a lesson that your "favorites" on Twitter are public.

Do you think he goes with the "I was hacked" excuse or are interns drawing straws this morning to see who is the sacrificial lamb?

The hacked excuse. No one needs to be fired over something that is more funny than something that actually matters.

[Juice]

The hacked excuse. No one needs to be fired over something that is more funny than something that actually matters.

I stand corrected.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) says that “a staffing issue” led to his official Twitter account “liking” a pornographic image overnight.

[SemajParlor]

I stand corrected.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) says that “a staffing issue” led to his official Twitter account “liking” a pornographic image overnight.

Considering he tweeted at Pardon My Take last night before this unfolded.... this is actually believable.

[STL_XUfan]

I stand corrected.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) says that “a staffing issue” led to his official Twitter account “liking” a pornographic image overnight.


Did he say whose "staff" led to the issue?

(ok ill just show myself out for that one)

[Muskie in dayton]

Considering he tweeted at Pardon My Take last night before this unfolded.... this is actually believable.

No, it's not believable. He should have just said, "Yes, I like porn. Who doesn't"?

That would have been believable, and the first truthful thing he's ever said. I would gained some respect for him, and actually found I have something in common with him!

[GoMuskies]

If we decided collectively that the 2016 Presidential election should be a do-over, and we held the election again today, would the result come out differently? Here's an interesting stat from a WSJ editorial:

Just like Mrs. Clinton, the voters of America have now had plenty of time to reflect on what happened. And based on a recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, they appear increasingly comfortable with their collective 2016 decision to make Donald Trump America’s 45th President. One might never know it from much of Mr. Trump’s media coverage, but he’s actually become more popular than he was during most of the campaign, while Mrs. Clinton has become less popular.

In August, 36% of respondents said they had a somewhat or very positive view of Mr. Trump, compared to 52% with a somewhat or very negative view. These numbers look terrible, until you see Mrs. Clinton’s. Just 30% of respondents said they had a somewhat or very positive view of her, compared to 53% with a somewhat or very negative view—23 percentage points underwater.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-happening-1505323901

[Snipe]

Good point with that Go.

I think I am witty when I tell people in social settings that I will be glad when this election is finally over.

Lets make that into a question.

Q: Will you be glad when this election is finally over?

A: The permanent election will never be over.

[Caf]

If we decided collectively that the 2016 Presidential election should be a do-over, and we held the election again today, would the result come out differently? Here's an interesting stat from a WSJ editorial:

Just like Mrs. Clinton, the voters of America have now had plenty of time to reflect on what happened. And based on a recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, they appear increasingly comfortable with their collective 2016 decision to make Donald Trump America’s 45th President. One might never know it from much of Mr. Trump’s media coverage, but he’s actually become more popular than he was during most of the campaign, while Mrs. Clinton has become less popular.

In August, 36% of respondents said they had a somewhat or very positive view of Mr. Trump, compared to 52% with a somewhat or very negative view. These numbers look terrible, until you see Mrs. Clinton’s. Just 30% of respondents said they had a somewhat or very positive view of her, compared to 53% with a somewhat or very negative view—23 percentage points underwater.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-happening-1505323901

"He's actually becoming more popular...36% have a positive view." 36% is up from his low of 34% in August...

[muskienick]

"He's actually becoming more popular...36% have a positive view." 36% is up from his low of 34% in August...

That bump upward is likely the result of Trump "rubbing shoulders" with Congressional Dems rather than him making any headway on his own campaign promises.

[Caf]

That bump upward is likely the result of Trump "rubbing shoulders" with Congressional Dems rather than him making any headway on his own campaign promises.

The margin of error on these polls is +/- 3% so statistically speaking it's not likely the result of anything.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

That bump upward is likely the result of Trump "rubbing shoulders" with Congressional Dems rather than him making any headway on his own campaign promises.

The fact that it was close and he actually had fewer votes says a lot about the candidate Trump. Hillary was that bad of a candidate. We are talking about a guy who is a misogynist, racist, one who pokes fun of disabled reporters, I mean the guy is about as big of an A-hole as there is. All of that AND she still lost the electoral and barely nudged past him in the final vote count. I think Hillary writing a book and strolling around thinking people actually like her is more off putting than Trump being the same giant A-hole.

Drink it in people, this is the state of affairs in the US. Make 'Merica Great Again!!!! Lol, we are the joke of the world.

[Juice]

The fact that it was close and he actually had fewer votes says a lot about the candidate Trump. Hillary was that bad of a candidate. We are talking about a guy who is a misogynist, racist, one who pokes fun of disabled reporters, I mean the guy is about as big of an A-hole as there is. All of that AND she still lost the electoral and barely nudged past him in the final vote count. I think Hillary writing a book and strolling around thinking people actually like her is more off putting than Trump being the same giant A-hole.

Drink it in people, this is the state of affairs in the US. Make 'Merica Great Again!!!! Lol, we are the joke of the world.

And Hillary can be accused of the same things

[XU 87]

Drink it in people, this is the state of affairs in the US. Make 'Merica Great Again!!!! Lol, we are the joke of the world.

There's another problem I have with liberals. You seem to be concerned with how people from countries like France and Greece think about us.

[GoMuskies]

I love America. Did with Obama in charge, do with Trump in charge. I've lived in Louisville, Cincinnati, Charlotte, Chapel Hill, Boston and Wichita. I've enjoyed all of them. Liked the people in all of those places. Wouldn't hesitate to live in any of them again. America is fantastic, and some shitty politicians can't ruin that. I've been to quite a few places around the world, and I've enjoyed most of them, too. But I wouldn't trade places with the people in any of them (note: I haven't been to Bora Bora yet, so I guess it's subject to change!).

The question I had from the article is this: whose mind has changed? Would anyone on this board vote differently if the election was held again today? I know my vote would be the same. I suspect that's generally true, but I'm interested in others' thoughts. I guess the only group I'm not sure on are Jill Stein voters. They might vote differently now.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

There's another problem I have with liberals. You seem to be concerned with how people from countries like France and Greece think about us.

Last time I checked, it's still one world which we are all citizens.

[XU 87]

Last time I checked, it's still one world which we are all citizens.

Huh? So you consider yourself a citizen of planet Earth?

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Huh? So you consider yourself a citizen of planet Earth?

The us vs. them mentality is getting us into the mess we are in. If we thought more about how what we do affects the planet as a whole, the world wouldn't be such a bad place.

To Juice's earlier post, just because Hillary could be accused of the same things doesn't absolve Trump. Why do people continue to use this logic of a child? Can you explain it to me?

[Caf]

I love America. Did with Obama in charge, do with Trump in charge. I've lived in Louisville, Cincinnati, Charlotte, Chapel Hill, Boston and Wichita. I've enjoyed all of them. Liked the people in all of those places. Wouldn't hesitate to live in any of them again. America is fantastic, and some shitty politicians can't ruin that. I've been to quite a few places around the world, and I've enjoyed most of them, too. But I wouldn't trade places with the people in any of them (note: I haven't been to Bora Bora yet, so I guess it's subject to change!).

The question I had from the article is this: whose mind has changed? Would anyone on this board vote differently if the election was held again today? I know my vote would be the same. I suspect that's generally true, but I'm interested in others' thoughts. I guess the only group I'm not sure on are Jill Stein voters. They might vote differently now.

In general, I think people are incredibly unlikely to change their political position or admit they're wrong. Even those who voted for Trump and disapprove of what he's done would likely say he's still better than Clinton and vice versa. I would be more interested in people's primary vote choices. I think there's probably a huge amount of HRC primary voters who wish they went Bernie and Trump voters who wish they went Rubio, Cruz, Kasich etc.

[GoMuskies]

Kansas has a caucus system, so I did not participate in the primaries. I'm all for democracy, but I've got more important things to do than waste a whole fucking day on that shit. Like post here!

[XU 87]

The us vs. them mentality is getting us into the mess we are in. If we thought more about how what we do affects the planet as a whole, the world wouldn't be such a bad place.

To Juice's earlier post, just because Hillary could be accused of the same things doesn't absolve Trump. Why do people continue to use this logic of a child? Can you explain it to me?

Once again, huh? I just asked if you consider yourself a citizen of planet Earth. You're now talking about Trump and Hillary. As one great poster used to say, "Stay on topic."

[GoMuskies]

As one great poster used to say, "Stay on topic."

Perfect try!

[Caf]

Once again, huh? I just asked if you consider yourself a citizen of planet Earth. You're now talking about Trump and Hillary. As one great poster used to say, "Stay on topic."

Earth is on planet America so teknikly were citizins of both.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Earth is on planet America so teknikly were citizins of both.

Semantics, too many of us see the world as French, Irish, South African, Japanese, and straight on down the list of 200 or so countries. In reality it's one world, if we mess it up for one it's going to go down for us all.

So yeah, I view myself as just another human on this Earth. Now my Trump/Hillary piece of my post pertained to a previous post. You can address two posts in the same one you do....that's ok right?

[bobbiemcgee]

Nikki Haley would make a great President. Just saying.....

[Caf]

Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manafort-offered-to-give-russian-billionaire-private-briefings-on-2016-campaign/2017/09/20/399bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html?utm_term=.f22bb2df6d9d)

Manafort is looking more and more like the fall guy.

[GoMuskies]

I'm no Donald Trump as president fan, but him calling Kim Jong-Whatshisname "Rocket Man" at the UN was the kind of comedy gold I counted on out of a Trump presidency.

Also, Ta-Nehisi Coates can eat a bag of dicks.

[xu82]

I'm no Donald Trump as president fan, but him calling Kim Jong-Whatshisname "Rocket Man" at the UN was the kind of comedy gold I counted on out of a Trump presidency.

Also, Ta-Nehisi Coates can eat a bag of dicks.


I thought we'd be more likely to see that in a Saturday Night Live skit, but never underestimate the Trumpster!

[boozehound]

Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manafort-offered-to-give-russian-billionaire-private-briefings-on-2016-campaign/2017/09/20/399bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html?utm_term=.f22bb2df6d9d)

Manafort is looking more and more like the fall guy.

I don't really know a lot about the guy, but the stock photo they keep using definitely ranks in the top 10 of assholish-looking photos. It will be interesting to see (1) if he snitches and (2) if that gets anywhere.

At this point it would be pretty tough news to deal with if there was concrete evidence of collusion on a criminal level. We also don't really have a mechanism to deal with that sort of thing in America. Do you just invalidate the the whole election like we are some kind of African Republic? Then what?

[Caf]

I don't really know a lot about the guy, but the stock photo they keep using definitely ranks in the top 10 of assholish-looking photos. It will be interesting to see (1) if he snitches and (2) if that gets anywhere.

At this point it would be pretty tough news to deal with if there was concrete evidence of collusion on a criminal level. We also don't really have a mechanism to deal with that sort of thing in America. Do you just invalidate the the whole election like we are some kind of African Republic? Then what?

The campaign manager giving private access to foreign oligarchs looks pretty concrete. I think the question is more 'who done it?' now. It's totally possible that Manafort acted completely alone or that the team insulated Trump. Either way Manafort is toast.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The campaign manager giving private access to foreign oligarchs looks pretty concrete. I think the question is more 'who done it?' now. It's totally possible that Manafort acted completely alone or that the team insulated Trump. Either way Manafort is toast.

To think Trump had no idea this was happening is head in the sand stuff. A guy with an ego like his knew all the minutiae in his campaign. That said, this is looking like Manafort will probably take the fall leaving the administration out of it. Trump already pardoned Arpaio, why not pardon Manafort if jail time is a possibility. His supporters won't budge, they just don't care.

[STL_XUfan]

To think Trump had no idea this was happening is head in the sand stuff. A guy with an ego like his knew all the minutiae in his campaign. That said, this is looking like Manafort will probably take the fall leaving the administration out of it. Trump already pardoned Arpaio, why not pardon Manafort if jail time is a possibility. His supporters won't budge, they just don't care.

Is Manafort still in the USA? You have to imagine that he can see the writing on the wall and is hopping a plane out of the country.

Maybe him and Snowden can be roommates? Would make for a great reality TV show.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Is Manafort still in the USA? You have to imagine that he can see the writing on the wall and is hopping a plane out of the country.

Maybe him and Snowden can be roommates? Would make for a great reality TV show.

Lol, I bet he was told after the FBI raided his office not to leave the country or was at least put on a travel restriction.

[Smails]

To think Trump had no idea this was happening is head in the sand stuff. A guy with an ego like his knew all the minutiae in his campaign. That said, this is looking like Manafort will probably take the fall leaving the administration out of it. Trump already pardoned Arpaio, why not pardon Manafort if jail time is a possibility. His supporters won't budge, they just don't care.

Like Chris Carter told the rookies a few years ago....."if you got a crew...you got to have a fall guy"

Manafort aint the first and he certainly won't be the last person to take a grenade for a President.

[GoMuskies]

If tax reform gets done, all the other bullshit with Trump will have been worth it.

[Snipe]

I would be happy with a wall and border enforcement. I have low expectations of Presidents and I still get let down. I can't imagine Trump being any worse than Obama or Bush.

I heard someone suggest an alternate reality where we had McCain and then Hillary, and that we should all be happy with what we got. It made me cringe. We may be living in the optimal timeline! This is as good as it gets!

[Nigel Tufnel]

Not a Republican, not a Democrat....but Trump in Puerto Rico today was just brutal.

[GoMuskies]

Not a Republican, not a Democrat....but Trump in Puerto Rico today was just brutal.

Didn't see, but least surprising thing ever. When he goes to Vegas tomorrow, let's see how many times he mentions his beautiful hotel that you can see right over there. See all that gold!!!!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Didn't see, but least surprising thing ever. When he goes to Vegas tomorrow, let's see how many times he mentions his beautiful hotel that you can see right over there. See all that gold!!!!

I thought he sold that hotel. I think it just kept his name.

[GoMuskies]

I thought he sold that hotel. I think it just kept his name.

That may be. If he sold it, then he clearly won't talk about how wonderful it is. He may mention that he used to have a beautiful hotel there, but now it's shoddy. It's not even nice enough anymore to break out the windows and shoot people. You need a wonderful property like the Mandalay Bay if you're going to do that. Tell them Gen. Kelly. Did you know he was four stars?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not a Republican, not a Democrat....but Trump in Puerto Rico today was just brutal.

He was a disgrace. Cringeworthy watching his comments.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Joking about how Puerto Rico has hurt the budget...comparing it to Katrina and saying it wasn't as catastrophic in comparison..."basketball shooting" paper towels into the crowd. Just horrific. People in Puerto Rico have every reason to be offended by his behavior today. I've never seen anyone who could make a country hit by 2 hurricanes make it all about himself. He went down there and talked about how great he did providing them relief. It was another Trump surreal moment.

[bobbiemcgee]

Like Chris Carter told the rookies a few years ago....."if you got a crew...you got to have a fall guy"

Manafort aint the first and he certainly won't be the last person to take a grenade for a President.

No grenade. Trump will pardon him instantly.

[Snipe]

.......................

[bobbiemcgee]

.......................

You won't have to wait long. PR has no money and zero tax income for months. Miami and NY get ready.

[paulxu]

The Republican Senator from Tennessee injects a little humor into Sunday morning:


Senator Bob Corker
✔
@SenBobCorker

It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.

[Caf]

THE DRUG INDUSTRY’S TRIUMPH OVER THE DEA - WP (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/dea-drug-industry-congress/?utm_term=.e93d90f4f3bb)

I'm posting this in case anyone hasn't seen the 60 minutes story. A really outrageous failure of government at many levels.

[waggy]

US government is a failure?

[Masterofreality]

THE DRUG INDUSTRY’S TRIUMPH OVER THE DEA - WP (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/dea-drug-industry-congress/?utm_term=.e93d90f4f3bb)

I'm posting this in case anyone hasn't seen the 60 minutes story. A really outrageous failure of government at many levels.

I love the way the Washington Post, which has lost all sense of objectivity, tries to blame this whole mess on Congress.
You do know that all this ish happened under Obama's DOJ, right? Trump is inheriting the problem that Obama's incompetent crew like Holder and Lynch allowed to happen. I guess they were too busy trying to prosecute and persecute Cops who were just trying to enforce the law. The 60 Minutes report made it clear that this garbage started back when the watchdogs were called off the scent of the drug distributors like McKesson in 2009. This whole thing was allowed to fester and grow under an incompetent administration. Now the piper is being paid, but those that perpetrated the mess aren't called to account.

" The White House was equally unaware of the bill’s import when President Barack Obama signed it into law, according to interviews with former senior administration officials.

Top officials at the White House and the Justice Department have declined to discuss how the bill came to pass."

And...

"Loretta E. Lynch, who was attorney general at the time, declined a recent interview request.

Obama also declined to discuss the law. His spokeswoman, Katie Hill, referred reporters to Botticelli’s statement."

[Caf]

I love the way the Washington Post, which has lost all sense of objectivity, tries to blame this whole mess on Congress.
You do know that all this ish happened under Obama's DOJ, right? Trump is inheriting the problem that Obama's incompetent crew like Holder and Lynch allowed to happen. I guess they were too busy trying to prosecute and persecute Cops who were just trying to enforce the law.

" The White House was equally unaware of the bill’s import when President Barack Obama signed it into law, according to interviews with former senior administration officials.

Top officials at the White House and the Justice Department have declined to discuss how the bill came to pass."

And...

"Loretta E. Lynch, who was attorney general at the time, declined a recent interview request.

Obama also declined to discuss the law. His spokeswoman, Katie Hill, referred reporters to Botticelli’s statement."

I do know that, and as those quotes you pasted show, so do the authors. Obama being unaware of the bill's impact, signing it anyway, then refusing to comment is damning and inexcusable. What more should the authors have said about Obama's involvement other than he signed something he didn't understand?

[Masterofreality]

Well, this is kind of a problem.... unlike the "Russian influence over Trump-where nothing at all has been discovered.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration?amp

[Strange Brew]

Just so long as you also credit Trump when the market corrects.

BOOM! 23,000!

Oh, not the correction to which you were eluding?..

[Caf]

Well, this is kind of a problem.... unlike the "Russian influence over Trump-where nothing at all has been discovered.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration?amp

That was a hell of an investigative piece by The Hill. Still not getting any air time. It's nowhere to be seen on WSJ and is just a side note on Fox. That's a big deal.

Russia has had their hands in everything.

[Caf]

BOOM! 23,000!

Oh, not the correction to which you were eluding?..

https://twitter.com/StockTwits/status/921014752876290048

This is a fitting discussion to have on the 30th anniversary of Black Monday. Fun fact: every Republican President since Theodore Roosevelt has endured a recession in their first term.

[GoMuskies]

Now the markets seems like it's in a big damn hurry to get to 24,000. I don't get it.

Bad day for Cincinnati investors, though. Market up huge, but P&G down huger.

[Masterofreality]

https://twitter.com/StockTwits/status/921014752876290048

This is a fitting discussion to have on the 30th anniversary of Black Monday. Fun fact: every Republican President since Theodore Roosevelt has endured a recession in their first term.

Well, the long term recession happened for 8 years under Obama's lousy presidency. This is pent up demand with an almost full employment economy. Consumer confidence is at an all time high. Trump has enabled business to spend and expand. This is not some internet bubble.

[Caf]

Well, the long term recession happened for 8 years under Obama's lousy presidency. This is pent up demand with an almost full employment economy. Consumer confidence is at an all time high. Trump has enabled business to spend and expand. This is not some internet bubble.

Time will tell.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

If you don’t put money in the hands of people who create demand it’s a bubble.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Well, the long term recession happened for 8 years under Obama's lousy presidency. This is pent up demand with an almost full employment economy. Consumer confidence is at an all time high. Trump has enabled business to spend and expand. This is not some internet bubble.

Lousy? Do you lack some kind of understanding of what he walked into? We were day to day and he pulled us out of that.

[Masterofreality]

Lousy? Do you lack some kind of understanding of what he walked into? We were day to day and he pulled us out of that.

For eight freaking years? Companies were afraid to invest over uncertainty over what Executive Order Obama would issue next.

[Masterofreality]

If you don’t put money in the hands of people who create demand it’s a bubble.

What? I have zero understanding of what you are talking about.

[bobbiemcgee]

For eight freaking years? Companies were afraid to invest over uncertainty over what Executive Order Obama would issue next.

The Bull Market is 103 months old.

[Caf]

They need to start getting more information about the Niger incident out. Dems are going to try to make this Trump's Benghazi otherwise.

[Lamont Sanford]

They need to start getting more information about the Niger incident out. Dems are going to try to make this Trump's Benghazi otherwise.

But ask any Libtard and they would say there's nothing to say about Benghazi in the first place.

[Caf]

But ask any Libtard and they would say there's nothing to say about Benghazi in the first place.

Bias cuts both ways. Anyone who thinks their side of the aisle is more ethical is a sanctimonious fool.

[paulxu]

The Bull Market is 103 months old.

That has to be fake news. The Donald's only been in office for 9 months.

[bobbiemcgee]

That has to be fake news. The Donald's only been in office for 9 months.

He said the stock market was in a bubble and "people will get wiped out" almost exactly two years ago.

[Muskie]

Jeff Flake's entire speech. Haven't seen anything like this on the Senate Floor since the Watergate Era. (Link (http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2017/10/24/sen-jeff-flake-senate-speech-full-text/794958001/))

[chico]

Jeff Flake's entire speech. Haven't seen anything like this on the Senate Floor since the Watergate Era. (Link (http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2017/10/24/sen-jeff-flake-senate-speech-full-text/794958001/))

Wow - good for him! It's something that has been needed to be said for quite some time.

[Caf]

Jeff Flake's entire speech. Haven't seen anything like this on the Senate Floor since the Watergate Era. (Link (http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2017/10/24/sen-jeff-flake-senate-speech-full-text/794958001/))

I really thought this line hit the nail on the head:


To be clear, the anger and resentment that the people feel at the royal mess we have created are justified. But anger and resentment are not a governing philosophy.

[bjf123]

Anger and resentment might not be a governing philosophy, but if our out of touch representatives had any clue, they’d actually try working together instead of sticking with partisan politics. Personally, I like the fact that Trump has angered the clowns in DC on both sides of the aisle. If they were doing their jobs, it wouldn’t be so easy to get them so upset.

[BandAid]

I’m not a Trump sycophant, but I’m a little unimpressed with Flake’s speech precisely because he’s been a falling meteor for a while. This article from The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/04/jeff-flake-most-unpopular-senator-america/315763/) from 2013 (before Trump) spells out some of his troubles. As it is, it might as well be a guy flipping off his boss as he quits. We might nod and agree because the boss is a jerk, but we’ll walk into work tomorrow and the boss is still a jerk.

[boozehound]

For eight freaking years? Companies were afraid to invest over uncertainty over what Executive Order Obama would issue next.

What specifically do you mean by that statement?

I'm not sure how much truth there is to this. In fact I think there is very little truth to it. So I fact-checked, which is a relatively easy thing to do these days.

Barack Obama issued 276 executive orders compared to 291 for George (W) Bush and 364 for Clinton. George HW Bush issued 166 in 1 term. Reagan issued a whopping 381. In fact, you have to go back a long while to find a two term president that has issued fewer EO's that Obama.

There are plenty of things to criticize Obama for without making things up.

[Pete Delkus]

Ok, shifting gears to a story that has become political - Sexual Harassment.

I presented a theory to my wife that IF Harvey Weinstein, James Toback & Bill O'Reilly were Brad Pitt, George Clooney & Tom Cruise, there would be lesser chance that this would become a story...from a female reporting it, perspective.

She replied that "a creeper is a creeper" and would be outed as such, regardless of looks, thus making it bigger story. She's right, but I still contend that males, in terms of biological drive, have much more to stifle, in aggregate, relative to women. Add power, vanity & insecurities of "ugliness" to this equation & it's not surprising these situations happen, especially in Hollywood.

Would I want my wife's Boss jerking off into potted plants in front of her?...of course not. I'm not excusing this behavior at all, especially since I've never done anything similar, or cheated on my wife.

However, when I read the story this AM that a lady accused 185 year old George HW Bush of Sexual Assault, I think it has gotten out of hand. He touched her butt from his wheel chair.

[SemajParlor]

I love the way the Washington Post, which has lost all sense of objectivity, tries to blame this whole mess on Congress.
"

Jeez, we even got people talking like him now.

[Masterofreality]

What specifically do you mean by that statement?

I'm not sure how much truth there is to this. In fact I think there is very little truth to it. So I fact-checked, which is a relatively easy thing to do these days.

Barack Obama issued 276 executive orders compared to 291 for George (W) Bush and 364 for Clinton. George HW Bush issued 166 in 1 term. Reagan issued a whopping 381. In fact, you have to go back a long while to find a two term president that has issued fewer EO's that Obama.

There are plenty of things to criticize Obama for without making things up.

Not making anything up. See Obama was a master of deception. He avoided calling his actions "Executive Orders". That allowed him to appear more restrained. What he did more than any President though was issue "Executive Memorandums", which are basically the same thing but allowed him to avoid some criticism. You need to count ALL of his "Executive Actions" which were more than almost all Presidents- and many of which skirted,or were in fact, a violation of the law.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/18/obama-executive-action-presidential-memoranda/20590037/

[Masterofreality]

The Bull Market is 103 months old.

Brother, the Market (DJIA) is up 29% since Trump's election. For the year and a half before the election, it was up 6%.

[bobbiemcgee]

Let me know when he gets to 235%

[paulxu]

Our fellow Muskie is not a happy camper.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-unloads-chaffetz-jordan-hannity

[STL_XUfan]

Our fellow Muskie is not a happy camper.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-unloads-chaffetz-jordan-hannity

Sounds like he may have had a few adult beverages before and during the interview.

[Caf]

Sounds like he may have had a few adult beverages before and during the interview.

Really recommend everyone read the Politico article. It's awesome, plus some great pictures of him rocking a Xavier shirt.

I was wondering if Xavier will name a school after him, most likely political science. They'd be idiots not too. Just might need to give it a few years for his legacy to settle.

[STL_XUfan]

Paul Manafort is not having a good morning. Every posse needs a fall guy, do we think Manafort is ok being Trump's fall guy?

[Caf]

Paul Manafort is not having a good morning. Every posse needs a fall guy, do we think Manafort is ok being Trump's fall guy?

Trump's response to this was literally, "but what about Hillary".

[SemajParlor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAzMIgJaPMI

[Masterofreality]

Paul Manafort is not having a good morning. Every posse needs a fall guy, do we think Manafort is ok being Trump's fall guy?

This is a big nothing. Manafort's transgressions predated the campaign. He's was fired in June. Sure nothing that would implicate Trump and nothing that would have made a difference in the election- which, of course, was supposedly why the Dems called for this witch hunt to begin with.

Sure nothing like influence peddling and pay to play like the Clinton/Obama/Russia Uranium 1 deal.

[XU 87]

Really recommend everyone read the Politico article. It's awesome, plus some great pictures of him rocking a Xavier shirt.

I was wondering if Xavier will name a school after him, most likely political science. They'd be idiots not too. Just might need to give it a few years for his legacy to settle.

I just read the article. It's good a read. And he takes shots at both democrats and republicans, including Trump.

[GoMuskies]

Our fellow Muskie is not a happy camper.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-unloads-chaffetz-jordan-hannity

The comments section on this thing. Yikes. They definitely think Boehner is half right. LOL

[bobbiemcgee]

This is a big nothing. Manafort's transgressions predated the campaign. He's was fired in June. Sure nothing that would implicate Trump and nothing that would have made a difference in the election-


Makes me wonder who is doing the backgrounds checks for Trump. The Mafia?

[Caf]

This is a big nothing. Manafort's transgressions predated the campaign. He's was fired in June. Sure nothing that would implicate Trump and nothing that would have made a difference in the election- which, of course, was supposedly why the Dems called for this witch hunt to begin with.

Sure nothing like influence peddling and pay to play like the Clinton/Obama/Russia Uranium 1 deal.

An aide plead guilty to lying about contact with Putin's family! How can you be concerned about the Uranium deal but not about what's being uncovered by Mueller?

[XU 87]

Makes me wonder who is doing the backgrounds checks for Trump. The Mafia?

Fusion GPS.

[Caf]

Are we as a nation really so stupid that we are incapable of being concerned about BOTH Trump and Clinton's dealings with Russia? Does everyone really care about one of these scumbags more than our country? They both suck.

[SemajParlor]

Are we as a nation really so stupid that we are incapable of being concerned about BOTH Trump and Clinton's dealings with Russia?

Yes.

[GoMuskies]

I just read the article. It's good a read. And he takes shots at both democrats and republicans, including Trump.

Officially my favorite part of the article. Awesome.

Boehner never accepted an earmark in Congress—and he enjoyed railing against those who did. His heckling once provoked Don Young, an Alaskan himself, to pin Boehner against a wall inside the House chamber and hold a 10-inch knife to his throat. Boehner says he stared Young in the eyes and said, “Fuck you.” (Young says this account is “mostly true,” but notes that the two became good friends, with Boehner later serving as his best man.)

[STL_XUfan]

This is a big nothing. Manafort's transgressions predated the campaign. He's was fired in June. Sure nothing that would implicate Trump and nothing that would have made a difference in the election- which, of course, was supposedly why the Dems called for this witch hunt to begin with.

Sure nothing like influence peddling and pay to play like the Clinton/Obama/Russia Uranium 1 deal.

Of the unsealed documents today, Papadopoulos plea deal seems much more troublesome for the administration. However, if Manafort has a story to tell, he is going to be given the chance to tell it in order to avoid jail time. Only time will tell if Manafort has something on Trump worth an immunity deal.

[XU 87]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453244/manafort-indictment-no-signs-trump-russia-collusion

Here's another article:

http://theweek.com/articles/734070/mueller-running-amok

And I can honestly say, "I'm no fan of Trump."

[chico]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453244/manafort-indictment-no-signs-trump-russia-collusion

What I gather from the article is that they were indicted for failure to be FuBAR(ed). Pussies.

[Masterofreality]

[/URL]
Let me know when he gets to 235%

“@BloombergBusiness U.S. consumer confidence just hit its highest level in almost 17 years bloom.bg/2iiXDrk“

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-10-31/u-s-consumer-confidence-index-rises-to-highest-level-since-2000

[STL_XUfan]

Steve Kerr was on 'Pod Save America' Monday and talked a decent amount about David West possibly having a political or public service life after the NBA.

[GoMuskies]

Steve Kerr was on 'Pod Save America' Monday and talked a decent amount about David West possibly having a political or public service life after the NBA.

Based on his Twitter feed...meh. I hope he goes into coaching instead.

[bobbiemcgee]

Of the unsealed documents today, Papadopoulos plea deal seems much more troublesome for the administration. However, if Manafort has a story to tell, he is going to be given the chance to tell it in order to avoid jail time. Only time will tell if Manafort has something on Trump worth an immunity deal.

Manafort's going down - he's not going to beat the money laundering and tax evasion charges. He spent a million bucks in a rug store and another million on his clothes. Geez, how many suits do you need? Almost another million for trees and shrubs. I can't imagine anybody hiring this guy without checking up on him first.

[Masterofreality]

Of the unsealed documents today, Papadopoulos plea deal seems much more troublesome for the administration. However, if Manafort has a story to tell, he is going to be given the chance to tell it in order to avoid jail time. Only time will tell if Manafort has something on Trump worth an immunity deal.

George Papadopoulos’ day: Wakes up to US president calling him a liar, dismissing him as a nobody; ex-professor says he’s ‘a bit simple’.
Dude with no resume to speak of joins a campaign, claims influence far greater than he actually has, gets more than he bargained for.

This guy is a small fish red herring with nothing. Meh.

[XU 87]

Manafort's going down - he's not going to beat the money laundering and tax evasion charges. He spent a million bucks in a rug store and another million on his clothes. Geez, how many suits do you need? Almost another million for trees and shrubs. I can't imagine anybody hiring this guy without checking up on him first.

I just read that it was well known in DC that Manafort was shady. The article also said that the reason Trump hired him was because nobody else would be his campaign manager.

[bobbiemcgee]

George Papadopoulos’ day: Wakes up to US president calling him a liar, dismissing him as a nobody; ex-professor says he’s ‘a bit simple’.
Dude with no resume to speak of joins a campaign, claims influence far greater than he actually has, gets more than he bargained for.

This guy is a small fish red herring with nothing. Meh.

I agree unless Mueller had him wearing a wire for a while.

[Caf]

I'm pretty impressed by the tax package. I think they've done a good job on it and have gone about it in the right way. The property tax write-off is going to be a huge battle though, as it should be.

[X-man]

I'm pretty impressed by the tax package. I think they've done a good job on it and have gone about it in the right way. The property tax write-off is going to be a huge battle though, as it should be.

So will getting rid of the state and local tax deductions.

[Masterofreality]

I'm pretty impressed by the tax package. I think they've done a good job on it and have gone about it in the right way. The property tax write-off is going to be a huge battle though, as it should be.


So will getting rid of the state and local tax deductions.

I suppose it depends how the new tax brackets fall. If your bracket is significantly lower than your previous one, the deductions are moot.

[boozehound]

I'm pretty impressed by the tax package. I think they've done a good job on it and have gone about it in the right way. The property tax write-off is going to be a huge battle though, as it should be.

I'm in the process of combing through the details, but so far it seems reasonable. Many media outlets are sensationalizing it, but quite a few of the 'scary' things get less scary when you dig into the details.

For example:
Talking Point: "Tax plan eliminates mortgage interest deduction"
Reality: "Tax plan eliminates mortgage interest deduction on mortgage amounts over $500K

I still worry about the deficit and National debt though. Specifically, the plan seems to rely on some robust assumptions on the amount of growth that the tax cuts will generate. If those assumptions are significantly overblown we will end up with a major tax cut that adds significantly to the national debt, but will also be extremely difficult / impossible to roll back.

[boozehound]

Not making anything up. See Obama was a master of deception. He avoided calling his actions "Executive Orders". That allowed him to appear more restrained. What he did more than any President though was issue "Executive Memorandums", which are basically the same thing but allowed him to avoid some criticism. You need to count ALL of his "Executive Actions" which were more than almost all Presidents- and many of which skirted,or were in fact, a violation of the law.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/18/obama-executive-action-presidential-memoranda/20590037/

Thanks for the clarification. I did not realize that executive memoranda were functionally the same as EO's, and it certainly does paint a different picture when you look at total executive actions. I still disagree with your premise, but I do want to take the time to acknowledge this post as it appears I was misinformed.

[boozehound]

Are we as a nation really so stupid that we are incapable of being concerned about BOTH Trump and Clinton's dealings with Russia? Does everyone really care about one of these scumbags more than our country? They both suck.


Yes.

F*ck, yes. Apparently. This is making me exponentially more cynical about America's future. If we can't agree as a country that we would at least like to know if our President, or his campaign, colluded with Russia to influence the election I'm not really sure what we are going to agree on. I understand not voting for Hillary Clinton. I understand voting for Donald Trump because you think he is a better option than Hillary Clinton. I do not understand deifying Donald Trump because you voted for him. We are basically treating our political party like our sports teams, and putting about as much thought into it.

The Boehner article linked to in this thread pretty much sums up my feelings on the political state of this country.

[paulxu]

Specifically, the plan seems to rely on some robust assumptions on the amount of growth that the tax cuts will generate. If those assumptions are significantly overblown we will end up with a major tax cut that adds significantly to the national debt, but will also be extremely difficult / impossible to roll back.

See Reagan and Bush tax cuts. At least Reagan woke up and roll some of them back. We are all slow learners.

[GoMuskies]

I think they actually have this pretty close to right, honestly. Individual income taxes only need some modest tweaking. I don't know if what they're tweaking is the right stuff to tweak, but it didn't need to be overhauled anyway.

Corporate taxes need to be slashed, and that seems to be the main focus. If they take the corporate rate down to 20%, it's going to be a good plan almost irregardless of whatever else they do.

[GoMuskies]

Busy weekend, what with the Texas shooting (which Drew thought was hilarious) and Rand Paul getting attacked by his liberal neighbor. Crazy world we live in.

[Caf]

Busy weekend, what with the Texas shooting

3 of the worst 5 shootings have happened in the last 17 months.

[Masterofreality]

3 of the worst 5 shootings have happened in the last 17 months.

There were 24 mass shootings during Obama’s Administration. 6 happened while the Dems had total control from 2008 to 2010. They did nothing but jabber. Oh, but they passed Obamacare- which was supposed to help with Mental Illness treatment. Biggest sham program of all timE and it sure did nothing to treat Devin Kelley, despite numerous indicators- including his Air Force tenure.

Now all they do is name call and cry gun control. The Texas shooter wasn’t even supposed to be able to get one. Wasn’t issued a license.

These asswipes in Washington- and the garbage media as well- need to stop accusing and pointing fingers and start proposing real solutions.

[GoMuskies]

Did Rand Paul get hit by a baseball bat?

[STL_XUfan]

There were 24 mass shootings during Obama’s Administration. 6 happened while the Dems had total control from 2008 to 2010. They did nothing but jabber.

Now all they do is name call and cry gun control. The Texas shooter wasn’t even supposed to be able to get one. Wasn’t issued a license.

There is no requirement to have a license to purchase a gun in Texas. I think the license you are referring to was the conceal carry license that he was denied.

Further, a background check is only required for a gun sale from a licensed dealer, not for a private sale in Texas.

[Juice]

There is no requirement to have a license to purchase a gun in Texas. I think the license you are referring to was the conceal carry license that he was denied.

Further, a background check is only required for a gun sale from a licensed dealer, not for a private sale in Texas.

It wasn't a private sale. The gun was purchased at a Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio. Also, he was prohibited by federal law from owning a firearm because of his court martial during his time in the military and his domestic violence conviction, which was all related.

[Caf]

Did Rand Paul get hit by a baseball bat?

There has to be more to this story. It is way too weird and quiet.

[GoMuskies]

There has to be more to this story. It is way too weird and quiet.

The fact that someone did that to a US Senator and got out on $7500 bail leads me to believe that you are right about there being more to this story than meets the eye.

[paulxu]

The fact that someone did that to a US Senator and got out on $7500 bail leads me to believe that you are right about there being more to this story than meets the eye.

Maybe it was a liberal judge.

[paulxu]

These asswipes in Washington- and the garbage media as well- need to stop accusing and pointing fingers and start proposing real solutions.

They tried to get background checks on mentally ill people, but Trump rescinded the rule.
And then, of course, blamed the shooting on mental health issue.

[Juice]

They tried to get background checks on mentally ill people, but Trump rescinded the rule.
And then, of course, blamed the shooting on mental health issue.

This is completely false.


This month, Congress repealed a rule that would have registered thousands of Social Security recipients with mental disabilities, who have others manage their benefits, into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System to prevent them from owning firearms.

The American Civil Liberties Union does not oppose gun control laws. As an organization dedicated to defending all constitutional rights, we believe the Second Amendment allows reasonable restrictions to promote public safety.

But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair

When the ACLU agrees with Trump, you know it was a stupid law.

[Masterofreality]

It wasn't a private sale. The gun was purchased at a Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio. Also, he was prohibited by federal law from owning a firearm because of his court martial during his time in the military and his domestic violence conviction, which was all related.

This is correct. There were already laws in place to keep this assclown from getting a gun. Somebody messed up and sold him one anyway. That store should be padlocked and never reopened.

There are already laws in place. Enforce them.

[BandAid]

This is correct. There were already laws in place to keep this assclown from getting a gun. Somebody messed up and sold him one anyway. That store should be padlocked and never reopened.

There are already laws in place. Enforce them.

Turns out it was the Air Force who didn't properly file his discharge with the FBI. The background checks came back clean. According to NPR (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/06/562320017/the-texas-church-shooter-should-have-been-legally-barred-from-owning-guns)

I also heard the shooter's ex-wife's mother attended that particular church, but I can't find the article stating that at the moment. If so, there's likely a personal element tied to this rampage.

[Juice]

Turns out it was the Air Force who didn't properly file his discharge with the FBI. The background checks came back clean. According to NPR (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/06/562320017/the-texas-church-shooter-should-have-been-legally-barred-from-owning-guns)

I also heard the shooter's ex-wife's mother attended that particular church, but I can't find the article stating that at the moment. If so, there's likely a personal element tied to this rampage.

A Texas background check stopped this shooter from getting a license but the Air Force screwed up federal check.

And the FBI f*cked up Dylan Roof's background check.

It's almost as if the federal government is incompetent and should start enforcing current laws first before everyone claims this is the NRA's fault.

[paulxu]

This is completely false.

What's false? Trump said the issue was one of mental health.

If the reason he rescinded the rule was because it wasn't a mental health issue, why is it all of a sudden a mental health issue?

You can't have it both ways. Well...unless you're Trump I guess.

[Juice]

What's false? Trump said the issue was one of mental health.

If the reason he rescinded the rule was because it wasn't a mental health issue, why is it all of a sudden a mental health issue?

You can't have it both ways. Well...unless you're Trump I guess.

1) Congress repealed the rule
2) Denying rights, in this case the run to own a firearm, without a hearing is violation of due process and therefore unconstitutional. Congress, Trump, and the ACLU all agreed on this. And they agreed that the rule used a broad brush to paint many people as having mental illnesses and declaring them unfit to own a gun when they didn't have a mental illness that would negatively affect them or the public if they owned a gun.
3) This rule that you love so much wouldn't have applied in this situation to my knowledge.
4) There were state and federal prohibitions that should have precluded this man from owning a gun. Texas did it's job. The Air Force didn't. Enforce the current laws. Don't just call for new laws that already actually exist. And don't call for new laws that violate people's rights.

You can have it both ways. Help people with mental health but don't enact laws that violate people's rights without due process. Everyone loves to shout about due process when it comes to the other rights in the Constitution except for the 2nd Amendment.

[paulxu]

I disagree. You can't have it both ways.
The ACLU was on board because statistics don't support people with mental health issues committing more violent crimes than others.
Fine. So don't have that law.
But then don't turn around and blame this latest tragedy on mental health.
And don't cut funding for mental health if you really believe it's a problem.

The most basic thing we should be able to agree upon and control is that assault rifles are a part of our problem.
You can hunt, sport shoot and defend yourself without those types of weapons.
Why don't we start there, and at least try and lower the casualty counts in these senseless killings of the innocent.

[Caf]

These asswipes in Washington- and the garbage media as well- need to stop accusing and pointing fingers and start proposing real solutions.

Not sure if it's your intention, but this reads as you saying Dems and the liberal media need to take care of this since their idea of gun control obviously doesn't work. If it is what you mean, please name one tangible solution proposed by any Republican politician.

[X-man]

Here's a piece in today's NYT on this issue: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news. Fire away, everybody.

[Juice]

I disagree. You can't have it both ways.
The ACLU was on board because statistics don't support people with mental health issues committing more violent crimes than others.
Fine. So don't have that law.
But then don't turn around and blame this latest tragedy on mental health.
And don't cut funding for mental health if you really believe it's a problem.

The most basic thing we should be able to agree upon and control is that assault rifles are a part of our problem.
You can hunt, sport shoot and defend yourself without those types of weapons.
Why don't we start there, and at least try and lower the casualty counts in these senseless killings of the innocent.

Why don't we start with the federal government actually enforcing it's own laws before we curb the rights of others?

[xudash]

I disagree. You can't have it both ways.
The ACLU was on board because statistics don't support people with mental health issues committing more violent crimes than others.
Fine. So don't have that law.
But then don't turn around and blame this latest tragedy on mental health.
And don't cut funding for mental health if you really believe it's a problem.

The most basic thing we should be able to agree upon and control is that assault rifles are a part of our problem.
You can hunt, sport shoot and defend yourself without those types of weapons.
Why don't we start there, and at least try and lower the casualty counts in these senseless killings of the innocent.

I could not agree with you more on the matter of assault rifles. It is simply ridiculous to allow them in society the way we do.

The second amendment should stand today for the very reasons it was put in place originally. The problem now is that nobody back then who at the time used "pellet guns" could ever envision gun technology as it has evolved to today.