Politics Thread

[Xuperman]

No, it's not...all it is, is answering a topic with a different topic. It's basically gaslighting.

Evidently you have never participated in any organized debates. I have, although only in HS.

The most important thing is to establish "Hypocrisy" in your opposition FIRST.. Then use that as a key part of winning the argument. I was taught that early by my Scholastic Debate Coach. Just basic stuff V'ille.

Constantly used in Politics and Courtrooms for CENTURIES.

[Xville]

Evidently you have never participated in any organized debates. I have, although only in HS.

The most important thing is to establish "Hypocrisy" in your opposition FIRST.. Then use that as a key part of winning the argument. I was taught that early by my Scholastic Debate Coach. Just basic stuff V'ille.

Constantly used in Politics and Courtrooms for CENTURIES.

WTF are you talking about? Whataboutism isn't anything what you described in the above. It is essentially...he who lives in glass houses should not throw stones

and/or

answering a question or a topic with something that doesn't even debate it but deflects to another topic or question.

[Xuperman]

No, the key is always to establish Hypocrisy..... basically exposing the opposition for what they are accusing your stance to be. It's critical.

It is Politics 101.

[Xville]

No, the key is always to establish Hypocrisy..... basically exposing the opposition for what they are accusing your stance to be. It's critical.

It is Politics 101.

This is what you said:

And all you Leftist here stop with the "whataboutism".

It is PARAMOUNT to ANY DEBATE.


Whataboutism is not what you described above and politics 101 is just putting a bunch of ad hominem arguments together...basically exactly what you are doing---the person being democrats

[Strange Brew]

WTF are you talking about? Whataboutism isn't anything what you described in the above. It is essentially...he who lives in glass houses should not throw stones

and/or

answering a question or a topic with something that doesn't even debate it but deflects to another topic or question.

I always found the term "whataboutism" to be used to refute when someone's hypocrisy is exposed. Also known as deflection or gaslighting.

[paulxu]

Care to explain that one?

I don't think he understood your point.

[paulxu]

Florida reacts:

Local Venezuelan leaders and other immigration advocates gathered in Doral where they denounced what they call DeSanits' blatant disregard for human life and the lies he told to the Cuban and Venezuelan communities. They point to a September 7th press conference in Miami where they said he promised that neither Cubans nor Venezuelans would be sent out of the state.

Meanwhile on Martha's Vineyard:

Some of the migrants sent to Massachusetts told translators they didn't even know where they were.

State Rep. Dylan Fernandes, who represents Martha's Vineyard, tweeted: "Our island jumped into action putting together 50 beds, giving everyone a good meal, providing a play area for the children, making sure people have the healthcare and support they need. We are a community that comes together to support immigrants."

I wonder if DeSantis knows the Massachusetts' governor is a Republican.

[xuphan]

Or maybe bus them to locations where employers are having difficulty filling job positions.

Maybe have them apply for legal immigration?

[paulxu]

I would guess most from Venezuela and Cuba are seeking political asylum.

[bobbiemcgee]

Florida reacts:


Meanwhile on Martha's Vineyard:


I wonder if DeSantis knows the Massachusetts' governor is a Republican.

MA Gov should impound the planes.

[Xuperman]

This is what you said:

And all you Leftist here stop with the "whataboutism".

It is PARAMOUNT to ANY DEBATE.


Whataboutism is not what you described above and politics 101 is just putting a bunch of ad hominem arguments together...basically exactly what you are doing---the person being democrats

Ok, no problem, you squirrelly dude. If you refuse to acknowledge that your political opposition's history is not relevant in a debate, you are simply ignorant.....most rational people, IF they're paying attention, would consider a past political stance.

That said, the current, Far Left Progressive ideology is spiking the political punch bowl. The rational population of Dem voters are being "Hoodwinked".

The OLDER common Sense Dem voters can not grasp where their traditional Party is being taking. What is happening NOW, is full blown Obama "Fundamentally Transform America".

Can it not be more clear?

[X-band '01]

Florida reacts:


Meanwhile on Martha's Vineyard:


I wonder if DeSantis knows the Massachusetts' governor is a Republican.

Baker and Hogan barely register as Republicans in DeSantis's warped fantasy world.

[Xville]

Ok, no problem, you squirrelly dude. If you refuse to acknowledge that your political opposition's history is not relevant in a debate, you are simply ignorant.....most rational people, IF they're paying attention, would consider a past political stance.

That said, the current, Far Left Progressive ideology is spiking the political punch bowl. The rational population of Dem voters are being "Hoodwinked".

The OLDER common Sense Dem voters can not grasp where their traditional Party is being taking. What is happening NOW, is full blown Obama "Fundamentally Transform America".

Can it not be more clear?

Sure and you can say the same thing about trump and republicans. Trump has fucked the party up. Our entire political system is effed up right now, on both sides of the lane.

[Xuperman]

Sure and you can say the same thing about trump and republicans. Trump has fucked the party up. Our entire political system is effed up right now, on both sides of the lane.

I'll will raise a Glass to that!

Trump, MUST step aside, and rally his supporters behind a candidate that can continue his America First policies...........or this progressive weed strain will simply flourish and destroy our Country.

[Strange Brew]

I would guess most from Venezuela and Cuba are seeking political asylum.

Ha! Joke’s on them then..:)

[Caf]

Baker and Hogan barely register as Republicans in DeSantis's warped fantasy world.

I’d vote for Hogan over just about anyone these days but DeSantis’s view is no fantasy. I don’t think moderate Republicans stand a shot unless the Dems trot out their worst, then maybe they have a slight chance.

[Xuperman]

I’d vote for Hogan over just about anyone these days but DeSantis’s view is no fantasy. I don’t think moderate Republicans stand a shot unless the Dems trot out their worst, then maybe they have a slight chance.

"Trot out their worst?". Dare you to post your Dem 1st team for '24.

We need entertainment.

[Caf]

"Trot out their worst?". Dare you to post your Dem 1st team for '24.

We need entertainment.

I think it is well established that you are blind to the Democratic spectrum of moderate to progressive, but by worst I mean most progressive.

I do not know the hot names or if anyone would realistically consider trying to challenge Biden but people aligned with Biden, Klobuchar, Manchin, or Buttigieg would likely get an independent bump versus a DeSantis. The worst being AOC, Sanders and Warren. A moderate like Hogan could beat them by double digits.

I am personally conflicted on both sides. I am tired of establishment candidates. I would rather see more populist policies. We have a few issues where the status quo just sucks and we need to pick a path. An election with populists from each side would likely help with that. That said the existing populists tend to be more than a bit nuts and ignore basic reality like deficits or the constitution. Thus is the dilemma as someone without a party in America today.

[Xuperman]

Not sure what you're trying to say by listing those names. Manchin has always been perceived as moderate, but it appears West Virginians may go R for his seat next time. I don't see him backing any 2024 Presidential Candidate moving the needle at all. However, with the direction the Biden Administration is clearly taking us, and it will get worse, there should be a real chance that a vast amount of Dem voters will have had enough. If some young, charismatic Candidate emerges, campaigning center left, in the '24 Primaries it could get interesting.

Here's the thing though. I firmly believe the Democratic establishment has moved on from the Clintons and now is deeply influenced by Obama and his "Fundamentally Transform America" agenda. Unless a very high percentage of Dem Primary voters make it known they've had enough, your nominee will be an Obama backed Progressive.

[boozehound]

I think it is well established that you are blind to the Democratic spectrum of moderate to progressive, but by worst I mean most progressive.

I do not know the hot names or if anyone would realistically consider trying to challenge Biden but people aligned with Biden, Klobuchar, Manchin, or Buttigieg would likely get an independent bump versus a DeSantis. The worst being AOC, Sanders and Warren. A moderate like Hogan could beat them by double digits.

I am personally conflicted on both sides. I am tired of establishment candidates. I would rather see more populist policies. We have a few issues where the status quo just sucks and we need to pick a path. An election with populists from each side would likely help with that. That said the existing populists tend to be more than a bit nuts and ignore basic reality like deficits or the constitution. Thus is the dilemma as someone without a party in America today.

Isn't that kind of the problem with populism though? Candidates focus on telling a bunch of people everything they want to hear, regardless of feasibility or practicality? It's like Homer Simpson running for sanitation commissioner if anybody here is a Simpsons fan, or somebody running for class President on a 'free ice cream in the cafeteria' platform.

Under Obama I felt like the Democrats were the populists just offering everyone free stuff they couldn't pay for and the Republicans were more rational. Then Trump happened and the Republicans got even crazier than the Democrats.

I actually think that all the anti-woke stuff the Republicans are doing may very possibly bite them in the ass. They have given up virtually any middle ground that they were holding. I'm sure that the antics of DeSantis and Abbott play well with the base in their states, but the fact that they are making a national spectacle of themselves isn't going to help win over any moderates.

Abortion is the perfect example: Instead of taking the W when Roe got struck down and passing reasonable anti abortion laws with provisions for the health of the mother and/or baby, a bunch of deep red states rushed to enact the strictest and must punitive laws they could, then Lindsay Graham says they are going to introduce a national abortion ban. They immediately painted themselves as the radicals.

[Xuperman]

Again, I totally disagree.

Based on the tenor of your post, one would assume you are on board with this Progressive "Woke" movement. Would love to hear what aspects you agree with AND more importantly what you disagree with.

Also, can you post examples of Trump Republicans being crazier than what the Obama "Fundamentally Transform America" agenda has done in just 21 months.

[Xville]

I wish Desantis would chill out a bit. he's starting to show a little too much crazy, and a little too much Trumpish. While part of me likes the MA bit, it comes across as being something of a six year old tantrum. It's not going to play well to moderates and that is who he is going to need to win the presidency.

[Strange Brew]

I wish Desantis would chill out a bit. he's starting to show a little too much crazy, and a little too much Trumpish. While part of me likes the MA bit, it comes across as being something of a six year old tantrum. It's not going to play well to moderates and that is who he is going to need to win the presidency.

It will likely play better than an open border.

Don't change the focus on where the crazy originates.

[Xville]

It will likely play better than an open border.

Don't change the focus on where the crazy originates.

Two wrongs don't make a right. And here we go with the "but they thing" again. Neither thing plays well with moderates.

[Strange Brew]

Two wrongs don't make a right. And here we go with the "but they thing" again. Neither thing plays well with moderates.

That's what you're doing. The root cause is the Biden border policies. Address that. DeSantis' response is an outlying effect used to drawl attention to the real, root problem.

Frankly, there is nothing wrong with what DeSantis is doing. He's well within his authority as Gov.

[Xville]

That's what you're doing. The root cause is the Biden border policies. Address that. DeSantis' response is an outlying effect used to drawl attention to the real, root problem.

Frankly, there is nothing wrong with what DeSantis is doing. He's well within his authority as Gov.

Firstly, No that's not what I'm doing. I'm talking about a specific action Desantis made. You are the one who decided to then say "yeah but"

Desantis' response was an immature publicity political stunt that used human lives as props. There are other ways to get your point across without that action. Yes, these people are illegal, yes there shouldn't be open borders. Yes, the border states shouldn't be the only ones having to deal with this. No that's not the way to handle the issue.

Whether it's legal or not really isn't the issue. You are playing with human lives.

[GoMuskies]

You are playing with human lives.

Yes, the poor residents of Martha's Vinyard who had to contend with brown people for 36 hours!

[paulxu]

. Yes, these people are illegal,

I don't think so.
I'm guessing that all the immigrants that Abbott and DeSantis are moving about the country, are actually here "legally."
That legality is probably gained by coming into the country, and filing for asylum, and there-by being here "legally" at that point
If not, and they are aliens here illegally, the governors are in trouble under federal law:


Domestic Transporting -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(ii) makes it an offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law.

Some of what happened to get them there.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1570803548501446661

[paulxu]

Yes, the poor residents of Martha's Vinyard who had to contend with brown people for 36 hours!

Sounds like they lent a helping hand. I like DeSantis holding a presser to say he was going to send people to "greener pastures."
Wonder why he took people from Texas. And people will vote for this guy.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/16/us/marthas-vineyard-community-response-migrants/index.html

[GoMuskies]

Sounds like they lent a helping hand.

They sure helped get those brown people off their island ASAP!

Yes, people will vote for DeSantis in large numbers. This November even.

[xubrew]

This might be the most tone-deaf tweet I’ve ever seen from an actual news organization or a reporter. I’m not personally offended by any means, but I do think it says a lot about how whoever wrote it for NBC candidly feels about these immigrants when they (without meaning to insult them) compare them to trash when trying to make their point. Then again, he also compared Martha’s Vineyard to a trash can, so…not gonna argue with that…

https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1570846502309838848?s=46&t=H9zfYW0l6glrkrBEyg-NnQ

EDIT: To their credit it appears to have been deleted. I guess we all say things that come out the wrong way.

[noteggs]

For some reason this tweet has been deleted. Hmmm

[paulxu]

They sure helped get those brown people off their island ASAP!

Yes, people will vote for DeSantis in large numbers. This November even.

I'm curious. If you took a vote of all Floridians, and asked them if they wanted their tax dollars to go to moving immigrants from Texas to other parts of the country, rather than having their tax dollars be used in Florida for regular purposes...do you think the majority would say yes?

[Xuperman]

I'm curious. If you took a vote of all Floridians, and asked them if they wanted their tax dollars to go to moving immigrants from Texas to other parts of the country, rather than having their tax dollars be used in Florida for regular purposes...do you think the majority would say yes?

Yes. In huge numbers. Florida has their illegal Immigrant box checked already. Blue State city suburbs are where the need for maids, landscapers and pool boys are most in demand.

[xukeith]

This might be the most tone-deaf tweet I’ve ever seen from an actual news organization or a reporter. I’m not personally offended by any means, but I do think it says a lot about how whoever wrote it for NBC candidly feels about these immigrants when they (without meaning to insult them) compare them to trash when trying to make their point. Then again, he also compared Martha’s Vineyard to a trash can, so…not gonna argue with that…

https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1570846502309838848?s=46&t=H9zfYW0l6glrkrBEyg-NnQ

EDIT: To their credit it appears to have been deleted. I guess we all say things that come out the wrong way.

deleted, boo!

[xukeith]

There is a way to fix this immigration issue.

[noteggs]

For those interested in seeing original NBC text.

NM. Didn’t work

[Masterofreality]

I'm curious. If you took a vote of all Floridians, and asked them if they wanted their tax dollars to go to moving immigrants from Texas to other parts of the country, rather than having their tax dollars be used in Florida for regular purposes...do you think the majority would say yes?

Yeah. 100% since it was Biden who was flying plane loads of illegals from Texas into Florida and other parts of the country to lessen the crush in the “Concentration Camps” (AOC’s words) in border Texas.
Just redistributing the wealth, like the Democrats always want to do.

[Caf]

Isn't that kind of the problem with populism though? Candidates focus on telling a bunch of people everything they want to hear, regardless of feasibility or practicality? It's like Homer Simpson running for sanitation commissioner if anybody here is a Simpsons fan, or somebody running for class President on a 'free ice cream in the cafeteria' platform.

Under Obama I felt like the Democrats were the populists just offering everyone free stuff they couldn't pay for and the Republicans were more rational. Then Trump happened and the Republicans got even crazier than the Democrats.

I actually think that all the anti-woke stuff the Republicans are doing may very possibly bite them in the ass. They have given up virtually any middle ground that they were holding. I'm sure that the antics of DeSantis and Abbott play well with the base in their states, but the fact that they are making a national spectacle of themselves isn't going to help win over any moderates.

Abortion is the perfect example: Instead of taking the W when Roe got struck down and passing reasonable anti abortion laws with provisions for the health of the mother and/or baby, a bunch of deep red states rushed to enact the strictest and must punitive laws they could, then Lindsay Graham says they are going to introduce a national abortion ban. They immediately painted themselves as the radicals.

People want to hear it because it helps them. A government can only remain in power so long if it is unable to deliver for its people. We are in the most powerful country on Earth, what is feasible and practical is enormous and certainly more than we have. Populism is nothing more than policies for ordinary citizens. My baseline belief is that people know what's best for them and the two party system does a great job at suppressing them.

Think about the way each party has categorized things like bringing back production from China or improving healthcare. These are in no way mutually exclusive and would be fundamentally good for millions of people and the stability of America long-term. Our healthcare system is hugely inefficient from a cost and outcome basis, jobs are good for people and controlling production capability is good for everyone. Each party talks about these things like they're crazy and unachievable. There is no articulate productive conversation about how they could be achieved. Both of those simple topics generate massive amounts of profit from cheap labor and expensive healthcare.

And so the game goes on where you have to pick one of the major topics that could help you but eh probably won't ever happen because the other side will fight it tooth and nail. Oh and you have to get on board with a bunch of topics which have no impact to your life in anyway or other views you disagree with. Like Mar A Lago documents! or what Hunter Biden is up to! It's the blind men and the elephant. There are a lot of people who benefit from the current muck.

And on abortion I think Trump is a good barometer for this, he gets that his policies have to work for people and that the decision is plainly bad for a lot of people. His Christianity alignment was always a sham to get into the party, and he delivered for it, but he is bigger than the party now and I don't think you'll see him supporting going further on the topic.

[Caf]

That's what you're doing. The root cause is the Biden border policies. Address that. DeSantis' response is an outlying effect used to drawl attention to the real, root problem.

Frankly, there is nothing wrong with what DeSantis is doing. He's well within his authority as Gov.

Yeah, I don't think people get the point yet. They're not trying to catch the Democratic cities as being hypocritical or not caring about migrants. They'll take it if that happens, but the real point is the massive mobilization going on in these locales to deal with a fraction of what Texas deals with. The migrants are being moved to Joint Base Cape Cod by a NATIONAL GUARD mobilization.

Doing it the way they did is the only way the point works because it is the reality Texas deals with. A quick scroll on twitter and you'll see a lot of talk about how moving these people is illegal and how it could be reversed, stopped or punished. And maybe it is illegal, just like crossing the border...

[paulxu]

Frankly, there is nothing wrong with what DeSantis is doing. He's well within his authority as Gov.

Actually there's a lot wrong with what DeSantis is doing:


Florida's migrant relocation program, according to the budget language which DeSantis signed into law, says the program should move migrants who are "unlawfully present" in the United States "from this state," meaning the flights from Texas to Massachusetts would not have been covered by the budget, language and anyone relocated as part of the program was not legally allowed to be in the US.

The migrants moved by DeSantis were lawfully present, asylum seekers.
They were not "from this state" of Florida

But he wants to be mini-Trump, so he doesn't even have to obey the laws he, himself, signs. I understand that.

[Masterofreality]

Actually there's a lot wrong with what DeSantis is doing:



The migrants moved by DeSantis were lawfully present, asylum seekers.
They were not "from this state" of Florida

But he wants to be mini-Trump, so he doesn't even have to obey the laws he, himself, signs. I understand that.

Akshualli DeSantis is being “mini Biden” by doing exactly what Biden did- taking illegal migrants that originally crossed into Texas then flew them all over the country to other states to hide what overcrowded conditions there were at Border shelters. Some of those people were flown to Florida.
Oh, the horror of 50 people of color migrants in Lilly white Martha’s Vinyard- who ridded themselves of those interlopers as soon as possible!!!
Some “Sanctuary”!!!

[Xuperman]

It will likely play better than an open border.

Don't change the focus on where the crazy originates.

And everyone should focus on the cost of what Biden is allowing at the boarder, is to the American people. We're talking MILLIONS of illegals in just 21 months. The cost to feed and house that number is a massive burden on taxpayers. I'm going to assume that this administration has instructed them to go immediately to local Health and Family Services for Food Stamps, cash assistance and MEDICAID.....for MILLIONS (5?). Sadly, we're only 21 months into a FOUR YEAR term.

Now let's talk Fentanyl and what that is costing Americans. The cost is LIVES!

It is estimated that there was 100,000 overdose deaths of Fentanyl last year. That's hard to wrap your mind around folks. Especially with you consider that a very large percentage of those are young people just getting started in life. Yes, most of them are addicts that know the risks, but unfortunately it's an increasing problem on college campuses. These are our best and brightest, who's lives are being snuffed out using this poison recreationally or unknowingly disguised as something else.

How much longer will the American people stand for this madness? When will Dem voters view this as disqualifying for any politician in support of Biden and this crushing open boarder policy?

[paulxu]

Actually, federal law prohibits the transfer across state lines of "illegal" immigrants.
So, any that Biden (like DeSantis) transferred were asylum seekers, as their paper work in Massachusetts indicated.

Florida law (as I pointed out) prohibits what DeSantis did. I think he went for a refuel in Florida to probably claim he was removing them from Florida.
But I don't think that works when you brought them there in the first place.

And of course he's making great press out of promising to continue to break the law. You almost have to admire his candor...if it wasn't against the law.
Like Trump, breaking laws is not a concern.

[Xuperman]

I know you're a big Biden supporter Paul, but what do you think about his boarder policy and to what degree are you in favor of what's going on down there?

[paulxu]

I think the border policy (different than the last president because people aren't being turned away under the Covid rules) is an enormously difficult situation.
It would be nuts to think the current president is happy with how things are going, but there are only a limited number of available options when people arrive for asylum. Despite that, record numbers were returned last year:

But by the end of 2021, as apprehensions hit levels not seen in 20 years and over 1.5 million people arrived at the border and crossed for the first time, Border Patrol agents carried out over 1,000,000 expulsions and deportations,

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021

We are not unique; worldwide there have been massive migration situations that strain the countries who receive the migrants.
Millions from the civil war and famine in Syria were dispersed; millions more from Ukraine following the invasion.
And the thousands that show up on our border looking for work, seeking a better life, fleeing oppression.

It's a tough, tough situation for everyone involved. What I really dislike is it becoming a political football, rather than being treated as a humanitarian crisis.
Having people like DeSantis charter executive jets to play up some issue like a little dictator does not help the situation at all.

[Masterofreality]

Actually, federal law prohibits the transfer across state lines of "illegal" immigrants.
So, any that Biden (like DeSantis) transferred were asylum seekers, as their paper work in Massachusetts indicated.

Florida law (as I pointed out) prohibits what DeSantis did. I think he went for a refuel in Florida to probably claim he was removing them from Florida.
But I don't think that works when you brought them there in the first place.

And of course he's making great press out of promising to continue to break the law. You almost have to admire his candor...if it wasn't against the law.
Like Trump, breaking laws is not a concern.

Akshually, then, Biden has been violating the law by YOUR standards, which, of course, are barely above ground level.
Channel 4 in Jacksonville investigated and found 78 charter flights full of Illegal aliens that had landed at Jacksonville International Airport BY DARK OF NIGHT over 6 months in 2021 alone. Of course the lying Biden Admin claims that they are children but The I Team could not verify that claim. After these migrants landed there is no record of where they went. By the way, the Florida Attorney General said that what DeSantis is doing is PERFECTLY legal under Florida law.
Paul, you are blind to facts. All DeSantis is doing is helping Biden spread it around more, you know, to “Sanctuary Cities” that are allegedly “welcoming”.
Until they aren’t.

https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2021/11/16/i-team-documents-show-78-flights-carrying-migrants-landed-in-jacksonville-over-last-6-months/

And by the way. A Honduran migrant ... posed as a teenager at the U.S.-Mexico border and was put on a flight to Jacksonville in August. Medina-Ulloa is now accused of killing a father of four in Arlington last month.

Finally, per the Chair of Georgetown Law: Nothing that DeSantis has done is illegal.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3647169-no-desantis-is-not-a-human-trafficker-or-kidnapper/

“ In reality, if transporting undocumented migrants after they are released into the country is to be judged criminal, then the Biden administration would be the largest “coyote” in history.”

[Xuperman]

Actually, federal law prohibits the transfer across state lines of "illegal" immigrants.
So, any that Biden (like DeSantis) transferred were asylum seekers, as their paper work in Massachusetts indicated.

Florida law (as I pointed out) prohibits what DeSantis did. I think he went for a refuel in Florida to probably claim he was removing them from Florida.
But I don't think that works when you brought them there in the first place.

And of course he's making great press out of promising to continue to break the law. You almost have to admire his candor...if it wasn't against the law.
Like Trump, breaking laws is not a concern.

Again, to what degree are you in favor of Biden's boarder policy?

[STL_XUfan]

Again, to what degree are you in favor of Biden's boarder policy?
Is “boarder policy” some right wing turn of phrase? You have used it twice now, so I am not sure if I am missing a talking point here or it is just a typo?

[Xuperman]

Is “boarder policy” some right wing turn of phrase? You have used it twice now, so I am not sure if I am missing a talking point here or it is just a typo?

Huh?

Biden and his administration allowing illegals to pour over the boarder, is obviously his POLICY....... he's the freakin' President.

[paulxu]

If the migrants that anyone transported were not registered, and seeking asylum, than transporting them is against the law.
I'm assuming the migrants, especially the recent DeSantis transfers had papers indicating such. Reports are they had them.
So they were not "illegal immigrants." Or else he would be breaking federal law.

[UCGRAD4X]

Huh?

Biden and his administration allowing illegals to pour over the boarder, is obviously his POLICY....... he's the freakin' President.

I thimk he is also refering to you're speling.

[Xuperman]

I thimk he is also refering to you're speling.

Oh crap, your right!

[Strange Brew]

Akshually, then, Biden has been violating the law by YOUR standards, which, of course, are barely above ground level.
Channel 4 in Jacksonville investigated and found 78 charter flights full of Illegal aliens that had landed at Jacksonville International Airport BY DARK OF NIGHT over 6 months in 2021 alone. Of course the lying Biden Admin claims that they are children but The I Team could not verify that claim. After these migrants landed there is no record of where they went. By the way, the Florida Attorney General said that what DeSantis is doing is PERFECTLY legal under Florida law.
Paul, you are blind to facts. All DeSantis is doing is helping Biden spread it around more, you know, to “Sanctuary Cities” that are allegedly “welcoming”.
Until they aren’t.

https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2021/11/16/i-team-documents-show-78-flights-carrying-migrants-landed-in-jacksonville-over-last-6-months/

And by the way. A Honduran migrant ... posed as a teenager at the U.S.-Mexico border and was put on a flight to Jacksonville in August. Medina-Ulloa is now accused of killing a father of four in Arlington last month.

Finally, per the Chair of Georgetown Law: Nothing that DeSantis has done is illegal.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3647169-no-desantis-is-not-a-human-trafficker-or-kidnapper/

“ In reality, if transporting undocumented migrants after they are released into the country is to be judged criminal, then the Biden administration would be the largest “coyote” in history.”

Yep, Paul is wrong per usual.

[Masterofreality]

If the migrants that anyone transported were not registered, and seeking asylum, than transporting them is against the law.
I'm assuming the migrants, especially the recent DeSantis transfers had papers indicating such. Reports are they had them.
So they were not "illegal immigrants." Or else he would be breaking federal law.

Paul sure does “assume” a lot as opposed to citing facts. And we all know what “assume” means. “Making an ass of me”.
Good job again Paul. You’re doing great!!

[Masterofreality]

From Reporter Bill Melugin:
“ Happy Sunday from Eagle Pass, TX! This is a group of approx 150 that crossed illegally and then gathered along a local highway. A large majority of the migrants who cross in this Del Rio sector are released into the U.S. after processing. Some then accept TX buses to D.C. & NYC.”

Hmm. Sounds like ol’ Joe Biden is trafficking those people..right along with Abbot- who gets signed consents.

But “The Border is secure”. And “No one is walking across the Border” per Lyin’ Joe’s press Secretary

[paulxu]

I would like to apologize to all my fellow Muskies for posting language from Title 8 of the United States Code.
Apparently this is not a fact to cite.

I will try and do better. Perhaps Kellyanne can provide me with some alternate facts to post that will be more believable for you guys.

My bad.

[Masterofreality]

I would like to apologize to all my fellow Muskies for posting language from Title 8 of the United States Code.
Apparently this is not a fact to cite.

I will try and do better. Perhaps Kellyanne can provide me with some alternate facts to post that will be more believable for you guys.

My bad.

Title 8 has 15 chapters and 1778 sections.
How about citing what area you specifically are quoting so we can cross reference for accuracy?
Plus the point you are trying to make?
Point being. Whatever you are trying to pin on DeSantis, Biden is also doing it. Be careful what you are accusing who of.

[paulxu]

Title 8 has 15 chapters and 1778 sections.
How about citing what area you specifically are quoting so we can cross reference for accuracy?
Plus the point you are trying to make?
Point being. Whatever you are trying to pin on DeSantis, Biden is also doing it. Be careful what you are accusing who of.

See Post#14779 for the language and reasoning you are requesting.

[bobbiemcgee]

Point being. Whatever you are trying to pin on DeSantis, Biden is also doing it. Be careful what you are accusing who of.
Desatanis lies just like trump:


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/17/politics/desantis-florida-republicans-routine-migrant-flights-immigration/index.html

While DeSantis claimed the state was not notified, the Biden administration briefed the Florida governor’s office over the summer about the flights, according to a source with knowledge of the flights and confirmed by DeSantis’ press secretary Christina Pushaw.

I guess you'll say it was ok while trump was doing it.

[Masterofreality]

See Post#14779 for the language and reasoning you are requesting.

So, by your use of that part of the statute, you admit that what DeSantis and Abbott are doing is totally legal if it is legal when Biden moved those people to begin with…which he did by flying them all over the country to other cities and other states by dark of night. (See the story of 78 flights to Jacksonville Airport).
That is a fantastic Self-Own Paul! Congratulations!!
DESANTIS IS LEGAL!!!!!!!

[Masterofreality]

Desatanis lies just like trump:


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/17/politics/desantis-florida-republicans-routine-migrant-flights-immigration/index.html

While DeSantis claimed the state was not notified, the Biden administration briefed the Florida governor’s office over the summer about the flights, according to a source with knowledge of the flights and confirmed by DeSantis’ press secretary Christina Pushaw.

I guess you'll say it was ok while trump was doing it.

Then why are they flying them in by dark of night?
And when was Trump “doing it”?
By the way, why aren’t the centers in Texas called “Concentration Camps” now like they were under Trump?

[paulxu]

Good to see you caught up.

[Xuperman]

By the way, why aren’t the centers in Texas called “Concentration Camps” now like they were under Trump?

Because the MSM is the propaganda wing of the Democratic party.

[Masterofreality]

Good to see you caught up.

Just waiting for you to trap yourself, as you eventually do.

[paulxu]

Whatever are you talking about?
Many people, including the one I directly responded to, were saying the immigrants DeSantis and Abbott were moving about were "illegals."
I responded that IF they were illegals, those governors would be breaking the law.
Specifically a United States statute that I quoted from, and gave the number.

Then I noted that I "assumed" the immigrants were asylum seekers and therefore the governors would NOT be breaking the law by transferring them across state lines. Subsequent interviews with the Massachusetts immigrants revealed they did in fact, have the papers indicating they were seeking asylum.
Of course DeSantis had some of them directed to report to offices all over the country which they couldn't get to...but that's par for the course of someone trying to score political points on the backs of people who have spent months walking to reach our borders. Sort of like your tired, your poor, etc.

Now, how that equates to me "trapping" myself in anyone's mind, I can only wonder.

[Masterofreality]

Whatever are you talking about?
Many people, including the one I directly responded to, were saying the immigrants DeSantis and Abbott were moving about were "illegals."
I responded that IF they were illegals, those governors would be breaking the law.
Specifically a United States statute that I quoted from, and gave the number.

Then I noted that I "assumed" the immigrants were asylum seekers and therefore the governors would NOT be breaking the law by transferring them across state lines. Subsequent interviews with the Massachusetts immigrants revealed they did in fact, have the papers indicating they were seeking asylum.
Of course DeSantis had some of them directed to report to offices all over the country which they couldn't get to...but that's par for the course of someone trying to score political points on the backs of people who have spent months walking to reach our borders. Sort of like your tired, your poor, etc.

Now, how that equates to me "trapping" myself in anyone's mind, I can only wonder.

“Many people” who you definitely highlighted to try to make cheap political points, other wise why even comment unless it was an attempted “gotcha”?
You just can’t keep your mouth shut when it comes to trying to nail your opposition..and you are proven to be on the wrong side time and time again.
How about you highlighting and then disproving those from your side who kept claiming that DeSantis was illegal? That would have been respectable commentary. But naw. Always try to wrench into the angle that cast aspersions on the right.
Great Self own Paul. Glad you are enjoying the Bidenflationary Open border supply chain challenged country that the US has become in a year and a half. You should be happy that your state is represented by two Republican Senators- one an upstanding Man of Color as opposed to grandstanding do nothings like AOC and Adam Schiff(Ty).

[paulxu]

And keep wondering.

[bobbiemcgee]

Think tRump has gone completely off his rocker with the Q pin, Q music and salute.

[Masterofreality]

And keep wondering.

Sorry for your confused mind. You should get that looked at.

[xubrew]

Think tRump has gone completely off his rocker with the Q pin, Q music and salute.

I love a good hoax. The best one ever is still Orson Welles's War of the Worlds prank where he actually convinced people that we were being invaded by Martians. Excellent!! Simply amazing!!

I really want to believe that some day Q, whoever he/she/they are, will come out from behind the curtain and just say "GOTCHA!! YOU BUNCH OF FOOLS!" That would be incredible! I don't know if/when that is ever going to happen. For quite a while I thought it was a hoax because QAnon had "Anon" in the title, and those guys at Anonymous has pulled off some doozies! But now I'm not sure who it is, or why they're doing it, or really even what they're doing. I honestly haven't paid THAT much attention to it.

One thing I am rather certain of, though, is that Trump IS NOT Q! He can't be. He's not intelligent enough conceive of something like this, much less pull it off. And even if he was (which he CLEARLY isn't) he doesn't have the capabilities of waiting this long to reveal that it's him. He craves attention. He craves credit. He would have claimed it a long time ago.

I would love it if the world we lived in could set this up for Trump to try and claim he's Q even though he isn't, and then have Q come out and expose that fact in some sort of truly spectacular and hilarious way! That would change my entire outlook on society! That would simply be incredible!!

[94GRAD]

I love a good hoax. The best one ever is still Orson Welles's War of the Worlds prank where he actually convinced people that we were being invaded by Martians. Excellent!! Simply amazing!!

I really want to believe that some day Q, whoever he/she/they are, will come out from behind the curtain and just say "GOTCHA!! YOU BUNCH OF FOOLS!" That would be incredible! I don't know if/when that is ever going to happen. For quite a while I thought it was a hoax because QAnon had "Anon" in the title, and those guys at Anonymous has pulled off some doozies! But now I'm not sure who it is, or why they're doing it, or really even what they're doing. I honestly haven't paid THAT much attention to it.

One thing I am rather certain of, though, is that Trump IS NOT Q! He can't be. He's not intelligent enough conceive of something like this, much less pull it off. And even if he was (which he CLEARLY isn't) he doesn't have the capabilities of waiting this long to reveal that it's him. He craves attention. He craves credit. He would have claimed it a long time ago.

I would love it if the world we lived in could set this up for Trump to try and claim he's Q even though he isn't, and then have Q come out and expose that fact in some sort of truly spectacular and hilarious way! That would change my entire outlook on society! That would simply be incredible!!

Impractical Jokers are going to release a movie showing they've been behind this the whole time!

[STL_XUfan]

I love a good hoax. The best one ever is still Orson Welles's War of the Worlds prank where he actually convinced people that we were being invaded by Martians. Excellent!! Simply amazing!!

I really want to believe that some day Q, whoever he/she/they are, will come out from behind the curtain and just say "GOTCHA!! YOU BUNCH OF FOOLS!" That would be incredible! I don't know if/when that is ever going to happen. For quite a while I thought it was a hoax because QAnon had "Anon" in the title, and those guys at Anonymous has pulled off some doozies! But now I'm not sure who it is, or why they're doing it, or really even what they're doing. I honestly haven't paid THAT much attention to it.

One thing I am rather certain of, though, is that Trump IS NOT Q! He can't be. He's not intelligent enough conceive of something like this, much less pull it off. And even if he was (which he CLEARLY isn't) he doesn't have the capabilities of waiting this long to reveal that it's him. He craves attention. He craves credit. He would have claimed it a long time ago.

I would love it if the world we lived in could set this up for Trump to try and claim he's Q even though he isn't, and then have Q come out and expose that fact in some sort of truly spectacular and hilarious way! That would change my entire outlook on society! That would simply be incredible!!

If you are interested in it, Reply All did a few podcasts on it (they are a bit dated now): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/122-the-qanon-code/id941907967?i=1000413199507 https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/llhe5nm

Also there is a documentary about it on HBO called into the Storm.

Everyone is pretty confident that the current Q Annon is Ron Watkins or his father, but there is a lot of unknowns or whether they were the original or just stole the handle when the account was hacked a while back.

[xubrew]

Impractical Jokers are going to release a movie showing they've been behind this the whole time!

It would be the greatest, most hilarious, and perhaps the most historically significant movie ever made!!

[xubrew]

So Russia vs Ukraine (not sure if this should have it's own thread or not).....

In a statement of the obvious...Putin needs to go and needed to go a long time ago. The problem is that he is so insulated that there appears to be no mechanism to get rid of him. While he is still extremely popular in some circles, it is also somewhat of a mirage. His critics are silenced (and sometimes mysteriously killed). His opponents also seem to have a habit of disappearing. He controls the media. He's basically able to create his own narrative and force it upon people even though it is completely false.

Ukraine isn't folding. They've been able to hold off Russia's advances. The international community, which now even seems to include China, has condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and continue to view Ukraine as a sovereign nation (which it is), and dismiss Russia's claim that it is a part of Russia. And Ukraine suddenly seems to be winning!! But, this raises the questions...

Will Russia ever quit, or will they just continue to try and mount advance after advance after advance even if they lose over and over and over again??

Have the people of Russia figured out that they're not winning, and the news they are being fed is totally false??

And, perhaps most importantly, can anything be done to remove Putin?? I seriously doubt he would ever leave office. He'll either die, or literally be dragged out.

So, even though Russia is losing, what does that really even mean if Putin continues to be in power?? Cutting them off from the world economy is no small thing, but as hard as that's made things for many parts of the world, and as infinitely harder as it has made day-to-day life for the people of Russia, I seriously doubt it will persuade Putin to step down. I mean...OF COURSE IT WON'T!! So...how does this all end??

[bjf123]

I think there are only two ways for Putin to leave office, he simply dies, or a military coup. Other than that, I think he’s in for life. He certainly won’t be voted out of office.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boozehound]

I think there are only two ways for Putin to leave office, he simply dies, or a military coup. Other than that, I think he’s in for life. He certainly won’t be voted out of office.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep. Pretty much.

[paulxu]

Good luck in the "snake."

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-afghanistan-ohio-campaigns-e75d2566635f11f49332bd1c46711999

[Masterofreality]

Good luck in the "snake."

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-afghanistan-ohio-campaigns-e75d2566635f11f49332bd1c46711999

Wow!! Newsflash!! Politicians and Candidates “Misrepresent” or Lie.
Paul never seemed to want to comment on Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren’s heritage or Adam Schiff’s “indisputable evidence of Russian Collusion”. How about John Fedderman denying that he chased down an innocent black jogger and held a rifle to his chest?
Wonder why?

[paulxu]

I'll give Warren the benefit of the doubt as her grandmother told her she had Indian heritage.
Not sure about Schiff, but the Republican Senate committee said there was proof the Russians meddled in our election, and I think I'll trust them on that.
Fedderman seems to have screwed up, and also doesn't seem smart enough to admit it.

What that all has to do with your precinct I'm not quite sure. As a veteran, I'm upset by anyone who claims experiences in the Armed Services they didn't have, for political gain.

[Masterofreality]

I'll give Warren the benefit of the doubt as her grandmother told her she had Indian heritage.
Not sure about Schiff, but the Republican Senate committee said there was proof the Russians meddled in our election, and I think I'll trust them on that.
Fedderman seems to have screwed up, and also doesn't seem smart enough to admit it.

What that all has to do with your precinct I'm not quite sure. As a veteran, I'm upset by anyone who claims experiences in the Armed Services they didn't have, for political gain.

Of course you’ll give your side the “Benefit of the doubt”. But there is no doubt. Warren got into programs because she unequivocally claimed Native American heritage which was disproven by a DNA test. Sure! I’ll claim that I’m the nephew of a Nigerian Prince- so I can get my benefits!! Wild.
You keep going back to this “what the Republican Senate Committee” allegedly found. What they found was that Manafort, who was indicted for tax issues not sedition issues, had ties to UKRANIAN oligarchs, not “Russian” although Ukrainian & Russian were considered combined in the report. As has been seen, there is one helluva difference between the two countries, or have you not heard about a 7 month war that has gone on? The extent of “Russian Meddling” in the 2016 election was $1,300 worth of Facebook ads. “Meddling” does not equal “Collusion” no matter what kind of vocabulary gymnastics you try to put on it. Oh That’s it. Just stop.
You “aren’t sure” about Schiff because he has never produced a shred of evidence for his twice published claims and has never been called to account for his lies.
Fedderman speaks for himself.
Conclusion. Politicians and Candidates misrepresent & lie all the time. But you only point out the convenient ones for you.
Totally Disingenuous and Deceptive.

[xuphan]

Of course you’ll give your side the “Benefit of the doubt”. But there is no doubt. Warren got into programs because she unequivocally claimed Native American heritage which was disproven by a DNA test. Sure! I’ll claim that I’m the nephew of a Nigerian Prince- so I can get my benefits!! Wild.
You keep going back to this “what the Republican Senate Committee” allegedly found. What they found was that Manafort, who was indicted for tax issues not sedition issues, had ties to UKRANIAN oligarchs, not “Russian” although Ukrainian & Russian were considered combined in the report. As has been seen, there is one helluva difference between the two countries, or have you not heard about a 7 month war that has gone on? The extent of “Russian Meddling” in the 2016 election was $1,300 worth of Facebook ads. “Meddling” does not equal “Collusion” no matter what kind of vocabulary gymnastics you try to put on it. Oh That’s it. Just stop.
You “aren’t sure” about Schiff because he has never produced a shred of evidence for his twice published claims and has never been called to account for his lies.
Fedderman speaks for himself.
Conclusion. Politicians and Candidates misrepresent & lie all the time. But you only point out the convenient ones for you.
Totally Disingenuous and Deceptive.

100% agree with this and a major issue within our country.

[paulxu]

Not sure where you get your information:


The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence alleged Manafort collaborated with Russians, including oligarch Oleg Deripaska and “Russian intelligence officer” Konstantin Kilimnik, before, during, and after the election.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/senate-committee-concludes-russia-used-manafort-wikileaks-to-boost-trump-in-2016-idUSKCN25E1US

But I certainly agree politicians are notorious for stretching the truth.
You point out the Dems, and I'll point out the Republicans...especially ones who:

The panel found Manafort’s role and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence, saying his “high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services... represented a grave counterintelligence threat.”

Curiously it's not me pointing these things out which get you upset with me...but your fellow Republicans who are senators.
Maybe you should take up your dissatisfaction with them.

[Masterofreality]

Not sure where you get your information:



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/senate-committee-concludes-russia-used-manafort-wikileaks-to-boost-trump-in-2016-idUSKCN25E1US

But I certainly agree politicians are notorious for stretching the truth.
You point out the Dems, and I'll point out the Republicans...especially ones who:


Curiously it's not me pointing these things out which get you upset with me...but your fellow Republicans who are senators.
Maybe you should take up your dissatisfaction with them.

Paul. No one gives a shit about a dedunked “collusion” narrative. No. One, but you. No matter how much you keep trying to blame Republicans who only had flawed and compromised information to work from. But you just keep losing sleep over falsehoods. Not healthy. I’m done talking about something that was totally unproven. If there was proof, where is Schiff to produce it? “Crickets”.

But I will continue to rail about the horrible Iran nuclear deal that you do firmly support-in error.
From the Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-snapback-to-reality-in-the-iran-talks-russia-putin-weapons-oil-un-security-council-ukraine-nuclear-deal-11663794529

[paulxu]

Curiously it's not me pointing these things out which get you upset with me...but your fellow Republicans who are senators.
Maybe you should take up your dissatisfaction with them.

Bump.

[Strange Brew]

Bump.

Bounce. Liz Cheney.

[xubrew]

The NY AG is suing Trump. I don’t entirely understand what is happening. It’s a civil suit. Is she claiming that she was injured or damaged? Is she claiming NY was injured or damaged? If that’s the claim, is the claim legit?

If he did this so a bank would loan him money, shouldn’t the bank that loaned him the money be a part of the suit??

Is this just yet another case of a Democrat doing something incredibly stupid at the worst possible time that will ultimately backfire?? Or is their actually something to this??

[paulxu]

I would guess that she is claiming that NY lost tax revenue because he undervalued the properties for tax purposes.
Not sure about the overvaluing for more favorable loan treatment and how that "hurts" NY.

[xubrew]

I would guess that she is claiming that NY lost tax revenue because he undervalued the properties for tax purposes.
Not sure about the overvaluing for more favorable loan treatment and how that "hurts" NY.

Okay, this makes SOME sense. New York was injured because he undervalued his properties and paid less in taxes than what he should have. SOME of that makes sense. The part that doesn't make sense (at least to me) is that sounds more like a crime than anything else. So...why the CIVIL suit??

I really am just trying to understand what is going on with this. My gut reaction right now is that it's a bunch of bullshit and that nothing will be gained from pursuing this. My thoughts of feelings on Trump are pretty well documented, but let's stick to going after him for the laws that he actually broke and the damage that he actually caused. Bullshit litigation may end up backfiring. Having said that, though, I'm not a legal expert.

[Masterofreality]

Bump.

Hey. I’m not upset. I just continually laugh at your abject refusal to accept reality. I love batting away your misguided premises like mosquitos. You just keep serving up those softballs, and I’ll keep taking you deep.
And you have zero answer to my point.
If there akshually was collusion, and ya boi Schiff had all this proof (we know he hates Trump and would take him to the cleaners if he did), why hasn’t he produced anything????
As you say-“I assume” because it never happened and he has no proof.
The ultimate liar.

[Masterofreality]

I would guess that she is claiming that NY lost tax revenue because he undervalued the properties for tax purposes.
Not sure about the overvaluing for more favorable loan treatment and how that "hurts" NY.

Paul. Assuming and guessing again, because “Trump”.
You just can’t keep your mouth shut can you?
How about you stop “assuming” and guessing?

[Masterofreality]

Okay, this makes SOME sense. New York was injured because he undervalued his properties and paid less in taxes than what he should have. SOME of that makes sense. The part that doesn't make sense (at least to me) is that sounds more like a crime than anything else. So...why the CIVIL suit??

I really am just trying to understand what is going on with this. My gut reaction right now is that it's a bunch of bullshit and that nothing will be gained from pursuing this. My thoughts of feelings on Trump are pretty well documented, but let's stick to going after him for the laws that he actually broke and the damage that he actually caused. Bullshit litigation may end up backfiring. Having said that, though, I'm not a legal expert.

Please share what laws “he broke”.
I’m interested since there has been no prosecution or indictments.

[GoMuskies]

It can't be a tax issue. The state doesn't let you pick the value of your property for assessment purposes. I believe it relates to allegations that lenders were defrauded when providing loans to the Trump organization because real estate values/collateral were overstated.

[Masterofreality]

It can't be a tax issue. The state doesn't let you pick the value of your property for assessment purposes. I believe it relates to allegations that lenders were defrauded when providing loans to the Trump organization because real estate values/collateral were overstated.

But again. Why is it a civil case and why aren’t the lenders suing?

[GoMuskies]

But again. Why is it a civil case and why aren’t the lenders suing?

I don't know on the lenders part. Perhaps the lenders reached out to the AG on an unfair business practices claim? There's usually a statute in most states that allows AGs to pursue unfair business claims on behalf of private parties. But just a guess.

I try not to get too wrapped up in the circus that is all things Trump.

[xuwillie]

Wow!! Newsflash!! Politicians and Candidates “Misrepresent” or Lie.
Paul never seemed to want to comment on Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren’s heritage or Adam Schiff’s “indisputable evidence of Russian Collusion”. How about John Fedderman denying that he chased down an innocent black jogger and held a rifle to his chest?
Wonder why?

Fedderman, how is that guy going to win anything?! I wouldn't elect that dude to work at our local parks

[GoMuskies]

Fedderman, how is that guy going to win anything?!

His opponent is almost literally a snake oil salesman.

[xubrew]

Please share what laws “he broke”.
I’m interested since there has been no prosecution or indictments.

I don't know that he broke any. I asked a question. I didn't make an accusation. I said that if the allegation is that he devalued his property so he could cheat on his taxes, that doesn't sound like a civil suit. That sounds more like a criminal case (or I guess more specifically, a tax fraud case). So, why was a CIVIL suit filed??


It can't be a tax issue. The state doesn't let you pick the value of your property for assessment purposes. I believe it relates to allegations that lenders were defrauded when providing loans to the Trump organization because real estate values/collateral were overstated.

I don't see how this would be a case for the NY AG if it's a civil suit. And I know you're not saying that it is. I'm just restating what it is that I find puzzling about all this.

It seems to me if someone were to sue Trump and have a legit case against him, it would be the actual banks/lenders who loaned him the money on a false premise (if it even was a false premise) and not the AG. Is this type of thing normal? Do AG's routinely file civil suits?

[STL_XUfan]

I don't know that he broke any. I asked a question. I didn't make an accusation. I said that if the allegation is that he devalued his property so he could cheat on his taxes, that doesn't sound like a civil suit. That sounds more like a criminal case (or I guess more specifically, a tax fraud case). So, why was a CIVIL suit filed??



I don't see how this would be a case for the NY AG if it's a civil suit. And I know you're not saying that it is. I'm just restating what it is that I find puzzling about all this.

It seems to me if someone were to sue Trump and have a legit case against him, it would be the actual banks/lenders who loaned him the money on a false premise (if it even was a false premise) and not the AG. Is this type of thing normal? Do AG's routinely file civil suits?

Civil suits are regularly filed by a State AG's, especially against businesses. You cannot throw a business in jail, so you are suing for money damages or injunctive relief. Think of the suits against the tobacco companies, which were also civil suits.

This particular law suit seems to be under New York Executive Law § 63 (12) which provides:


12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwisedemonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction ofbusiness, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of NewYork, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an orderenjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts,directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificatefiled under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the formerpenal law [FN3] or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the courtmay award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word“fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice todefraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense,false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term “persistent fraud” or“illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent orillegal act or conduct. The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of anyseparate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than oneperson.In connection with any such application, the attorney general is authorized to take proofand make a determination of the relevant facts and to issue subpoenas in accordance withthe civil practice law and rules. Such authorization shall not abate or terminate by reasonof any action or proceeding brought by the attorney general under this section.

The full lawsuit can be found here: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-60c5-da48-a3e3-e0e5115d0000

It is seeking disgorgement of the profits from the alleged fraudulent activity and an injunction to preventing the Trump family members from operating a business in the State of New York.

[bobbiemcgee]

I would say that if you sign a document that your Apt. is 30,000 sq ft. and anybody with a tape measure determines it is 11,000 sq ft., a difference of $200 million, that could be considered fraudulent.

[paulxu]

It can't be a tax issue. The state doesn't let you pick the value of your property for assessment purposes. I believe it relates to allegations that lenders were defrauded when providing loans to the Trump organization because real estate values/collateral were overstated.

Sometimes it can be a tax issue when overvaluing gets you a break on your federal taxes.

https://www.eenews.net/articles/n-y-ag-trump-fraud-involved-conservation-easement-tax-break/

Or when you pay to have values lowered in other instances to reduce your tax burden.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trumps-company-paid-bribes-to-reduce-property-taxes-assessors-say

As to the potential criminal parts:
AG James said that her office had referred her findings to the US Attorney’s Office in NY and to the IRS.

[Masterofreality]

I don't know that he broke any. I asked a question. I didn't make an accusation. I said that if the allegation is that he devalued his property so he could cheat on his taxes, that doesn't sound like a civil suit. That sounds more like a criminal case (or I guess more specifically, a tax fraud case). So, why was a CIVIL suits?

Hmmm. Quote: “ pretty well documented, but let's stick to going after him for the laws that he actually broke and the damage that he actually caused.”
Sounds pretty accusatory and definitive to me.

[xubrew]

Hmmm. Quote: “ pretty well documented, but let's stick to going after him for the laws that he actually broke and the damage that he actually caused.”
Sounds pretty accusatory and definitive to me.

Oh, THAT. Okay, I thought you meant just with this particular suit.

Stealing presidential documents, some of which were classified, and the whole Jan 6th thing. He’s being investigated for both, and it’s highly probable he’ll be indicted in federal court for at least one of those, and perhaps eventually both of them.

[paulxu]

Unless you declassified them in your mind.

[noteggs]

Maybe there is something to these hearings on price gouging. Think they should also go after small businesses. Last night I had to pay $8.59 for a 4 way at Skyline. Are you kidding me! Hopefully X can see this atrocity and drop them as a sponsor. If not, I will be a one man boycott at games this year.

This is what I think of Letitia James political and theatrical civil suit against Trump. May have given her more credit if she didn’t run her campaign on suing this illegitimate president. Oh no…election denier!

[Masterofreality]

Oh, THAT. Okay, I thought you meant just with this particular suit.

Stealing presidential documents, some of which were classified, and the whole Jan 6th thing. He’s being investigated for both, and it’s highly probable he’ll be indicted in federal court for at least one of those, and perhaps eventually both of them.

He’s been indicted for nothing. Everything you cite is 100% partisanship.
Highly probable? Speculation. You sound like Paul.

[xubrew]

Unless you declassified them in your mind.

Yeah, well even if he had declassified them “with his mind” he is currently not the president and as per the PRA the files do not personally belong to him.

Going off of Trump’s own (stupid and incorrect) logic, if Biden, who is CURRENTLY the president, says they are classified (I guess even with just his mind), then they are CURRENTLY classified!! Hence, he is committing a crime by taking them and not giving them back.

[xubrew]

He’s been indicted for nothing. Everything you cite is 100% partisanship.
Highly probable? Speculation. You sound like Paul.

Yes, it is speculation, but I’d say it’s highly likely. I’d also question the common sense of anyone who says otherwise. He may not be indicted for anything for another full year. The feds take their time. I believe it took them four years to indict anyone for the Mississippi Burning murders. It oftentimes took them years to bring down indictments against mafia bosses. He’s being investigated, and quite frankly it’s not looking so good. The fact that he hasn’t been indicted is hardly an indication that he never will be.

[paulxu]

Somewhere there was a "highly probable" cause given to a judge that a crime(s) had been committed, and a search warrant was issued.

It's "speculation" that the 100 documents marked top secret and above were....well, you know...actually top secret.

Why, even the 3 judge panel over-ruling the former's hand picked judge (2 of them also picked by him), issued an order that was "100% partisanship."

So, watch yourself there Brew.

[STL_XUfan]

Unless you declassified them in your mind.

Clients making statements without running it by their attorneys first is why attorneys have a reputation of being heavy drinkers. I am sure his counsel poured a large glass of bourbon after seeing those statements.

[xubrew]

Clients making statements without running it by their attorneys first is why attorneys have a reputation of being heavy drinkers. I am sure his counsel poured a large glass of bourbon after seeing those statements.

Yeah, it must be rough having a former president as a client! They just say all kinds of crazy stuff!!

[UCGRAD4X]

It can't be a tax issue. The state doesn't let you pick the value of your property for assessment purposes. I believe it relates to allegations that lenders were defrauded when providing loans to the Trump organization because real estate values/collateral were overstated.

Do lenders also let you pick the value of your property?

[GoMuskies]

Do lenders also let you pick the value of your property?

2006 rules or 2009 rules?

[X-band '01]

I just want to know how hard the feds are laughing at Mike Lindell's lawsuit against them right now.

[Strange Brew]

I just want to know how hard the feds are laughing at Mike Lindell's lawsuit against them right now.

Probably hard. What else do you want to know?

[bobbiemcgee]

trump's declassifier:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmhpUjIlPY8

or maybe this guy:

https://www.zazzle.com/rodins_thinker_add_your_custom_thought_beverage_co aster-163395760851911330?rf=238241712444678626&tc=Cj0KCQjwj7CZBhDHARIsAPPWv3f1ynfJ-lBV5IoOL2C_O4nEEjBB25RIATvDhw-dcbB1f2JFof18MSoaAuCUEALw_wcB&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=us_shopping&utm_term=z163395760851911330&ca_chid=2001810&ca_source=gaw&ca_ace=&ca_nw=g&ca_dev=c&ca_pl=&ca_pos=&ca_cid=575710024785&ca_agid=129073930301&ca_caid=15866676415&ca_adid=575710024785&ca_kwt=&ca_mt=&ca_fid=&ca_tid=pla-1593874458415&ca_lp=9028805&ca_li=&ca_devm=&ca_plt=&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7CZBhDHARIsAPPWv3f1ynfJ-lBV5IoOL2C_O4nEEjBB25RIATvDhw-dcbB1f2JFof18MSoaAuCUEALw_wcB

[Strange Brew]

trump's declassifier:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmhpUjIlPY8

or maybe this guy:

https://www.zazzle.com/rodins_thinker_add_your_custom_thought_beverage_co aster-163395760851911330?rf=238241712444678626&tc=Cj0KCQjwj7CZBhDHARIsAPPWv3f1ynfJ-lBV5IoOL2C_O4nEEjBB25RIATvDhw-dcbB1f2JFof18MSoaAuCUEALw_wcB&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=us_shopping&utm_term=z163395760851911330&ca_chid=2001810&ca_source=gaw&ca_ace=&ca_nw=g&ca_dev=c&ca_pl=&ca_pos=&ca_cid=575710024785&ca_agid=129073930301&ca_caid=15866676415&ca_adid=575710024785&ca_kwt=&ca_mt=&ca_fid=&ca_tid=pla-1593874458415&ca_lp=9028805&ca_li=&ca_devm=&ca_plt=&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7CZBhDHARIsAPPWv3f1ynfJ-lBV5IoOL2C_O4nEEjBB25RIATvDhw-dcbB1f2JFof18MSoaAuCUEALw_wcB

Thanks Bobbie, hope that took a long time for you on the search engine thing.

[paulxu]

Ruh-roh. Saving money. Although you would think joining the insurrectionists on the 6th might disqualify you.

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/22/house-republicans-ohio-trump-majewski?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=editorial

[Masterofreality]

Ruh-roh. Saving money. Although you would think joining the insurrectionists on the 6th might disqualify you.

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/22/house-republicans-ohio-trump-majewski?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=editorial

Irrelevant. This is a gerrymandered Democrat district that runs from Toledo to here. Kaptur was never in danger of losing no matter what Axios claims. I live here. This is the Cuyahoga Socialist State. For Gawd sake. Dennis Kuchinich used to be the Rep here.
Nice try Paul. Stop having your fever dreams of what happened 20 months ago.
And Vance is going to win, by the way. Hope your head doesn’t explode.

[paulxu]

Wow! Somebody (National Republican Congressional Committee) must have thought the guy had a chance if they were prepared to dump a million on ads for him, before the service record stunt.

If Vance wins, Ohio might explode, not me.

[Masterofreality]

Wow! Somebody (National Republican Congressional Committee) must have thought the guy had a chance if they were prepared to dump a million on ads for him, before the service record stunt.

If Vance wins, Ohio might explode, not me.

And they didn’t spend it. Stop focusing on non events.

[bobbiemcgee]

Irrelevant. This is a gerrymandered Democrat district that runs from Toledo to here. Kaptur was never in danger of losing no matter what Axios claims. I live here. This is the Cuyahoga Socialist State. For Gawd sake. Dennis Kuchinich used to be the Rep here.
Nice try Paul. Stop having your fever dreams of what happened 20 months ago.
And Vance is going to win, by the way. Hope your head doesn’t explode.

In the past, you have expressed disdain for Vance. Are you going to write in the "my pillow guy" or hold your nose and vote for Vance?

[bobbiemcgee]

Rick Scott defrauded Medicare out of 1.7 billion dollars, looks like he's doing the same to Republicans:

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/rick-scott-facing-many-criticisms-party-rcna44198

[Xuperman]

Rick Scott defrauded Medicare out of 1.7 billion dollars, looks like he's doing the same to Republicans:

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/rick-scott-facing-many-criticisms-party-rcna44198

How about we stop posting links from sickening bias news sources....on BOTH SIDES.

Biased news networks, MSDNC, being the worst, doesn't properly serve the American people. I will personally try to refrain.

[xubrew]

Bill Maher said something last night that I completely agree with. Don't claim you love America if you hate half of the people who live here and then actively try to defy the customs and values we've always had in an attempt to disenfranchise them. Quite frankly, there's nothing LESS American than that.

And I like how he called out both the Left and the Right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNTBoY99c24

[paulxu]

Thanks Brew!

[paulxu]

It's fascinating. Whenever there is an actual case of tampering, it's the R's who are involved.
Why would you go into a secured area and copy the software of voting machines?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ap-us-georgia-elections-security-breach_n_632f544ee4b00f7fcb5325d6

[Masterofreality]

In the past, you have expressed disdain for Vance. Are you going to write in the "my pillow guy" or hold your nose and vote for Vance?

I never expressed “disdain” For Vance. I did express that I preferred Matt Dolan.
Any one of the Repubs are much more preferable than hypocrite Tim Ryan who was Pro Life.. until he wasn’t, then voted 98.5% of the time for Biden’s nutty agenda.

[Smails]

Bill Maher said something last night that I completely agree with. Don't claim you love America if you hate half of the people who live here and then actively try to defy the customs and values we've always had in an attempt to disenfranchise them. Quite frankly, there's nothing LESS American than that.

And I like how he called out both the Left and the Right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNTBoY99c24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJOLMgY4p0

Another good one

[bjf123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJOLMgY4p0

Another good one

Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, Nancy Pelops, and Kevin McCarthy should all have to watch this. They’re all so far out of touch with the majority of Americans. Maybe they’d learn something. Nah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

I never expressed “disdain” For Vance. I did express that I preferred Matt Dolan.
Any one of the Repubs are much more preferable than hypocrite Tim Ryan who was Pro Life.. until he wasn’t, then voted 98.5% of the time for Biden’s nutty agenda.

I believe you said Vance was an idiot. But I guess you'll vote for him anyway. .

[Masterofreality]

I believe you said Vance was an idiot. But I guess you'll vote for him anyway. .

Your belief, as all your “beliefs” are, is wrong.

[GoMuskies]

Feels like someone is about to Make Italy Great Again.

[xubrew]

Feels like someone is about to Make Italy Great Again.

I love Italy. I thought it was great the way it was. If I ever get to move to Europe for a year like I want to, Italy is one of the places I've considered moving to.

[paulxu]

All the talk about immigrants and what a great threat they are (sort of like Trump and the golden escalator), it turns out we might actually be able to use some of them to ease some of our economic pain:


Increasing immigration into the United States could be a better tool argues Bill Ackman, billionaire hedge fund manager and activist investor. In a series of tweets last week targeting the central bank, Ackman said, "Doesn't it make more sense to moderate wage inflation with increased immigration than by raising rates, destroying demand, putting people out of work, and causing a recession?"

That might be particularly helpful in Florida:

"We have a massive labor shortage in Florida in basically every industry here. It's hard to watch willing workers leave your state with tax dollars," said Jessica Cooper, owner of Sugar Top Farms just outside of Orlando.

Maybe DeSantis should have kept them in Florida and helped that lady, or Trump who gets worker visas for Mar-a-Lago help.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/26/business/desantis-florida-business-owners/index.html

[Strange Brew]

All the talk about immigrants and what a great threat they are (sort of like Trump and the golden escalator), it turns out we might actually be able to use some of them to ease some of our economic pain:



That might be particularly helpful in Florida:


Maybe DeSantis should have kept them in Florida and helped that lady, or Trump who gets worker visas for Mar-a-Lago help.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/26/business/desantis-florida-business-owners/index.html

I don't believe FL is losing population or workers.

[noteggs]

Just like clock work, the press is taking a perceived weakness of the democrats and trying to turn it into a positive. Shocker! And no, being critical or skeptical of the press is not the same thing as demonizing.

[xubrew]

Putin has granted Russian citizenship to Edward Snowden. I just felt that was at least noteworthy.

[paulxu]

I don't believe FL is losing population or workers.

Florida is probably gaining population. But those 75 year old retirees are not there to work.

[STL_XUfan]

Putin has granted Russian citizenship to Edward Snowden. I just felt that was at least noteworthy.

That decision seems to line up with Russia's mass conscription. He might not be as excited about this new found citizenship...

[Smails]

That decision seems to line up with Russia's mass conscription. He might not be as excited about this new found citizenship...

LOL.. "Congratulations Comrade Snowden! Here are your citizenship papers and complimentary rifle. Please board the 3rd train car"

[bobbiemcgee]

Democracy not looking so bad in Russia and Iran lately.

[Masterofreality]

Florida is probably gaining population. But those 75 year old retirees are not there to work.

“Probably gaining”. (Large Eye Roll)
Paul just can’t admit that DeSantis has it all going on- to the detriment of California and New York, especially, where people are moving from. And those aren’t just retirees. They are younger folks looking for freedom and school choice for their kids.
From Blue to Red- just bleeding people.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/28/new-census-data-shows-population-is-booming-in-florida/

[Masterofreality]

Democracy not looking so bad in Russia and Iran lately.

Meanwhile, Paul wants to let Iran off the hook by starting up a flawed nuclear deal that would drop sanctions and enrich that outlaw regime.
Uh huh.

[bobbiemcgee]

“Probably gaining”. (Large Eye Roll)
Paul just can’t admit that DeSantis has it all going on- to the detriment of California and New York, especially, where people are moving from. And those aren’t just retirees. They are younger folks looking for freedom and school choice for their kids.
From Blue to Red- just bleeding people.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/28/new-census-data-shows-population-is-booming-in-florida/

They're all moving to Ga this week.

[paulxu]

“Probably gaining”. (Large Eye Roll)
Paul just can’t admit that DeSantis has it all going on- to the detriment of California and New York, especially, where people are moving from. And those aren’t just retirees. They are younger folks looking for freedom and school choice for their kids.
From Blue to Red- just bleeding people.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/28/new-census-data-shows-population-is-booming-in-florida/

Thanks for proving my point (which I didn't bother to look up) that yes, in fact, Florida's population is growing.
Over 50% of the growth is over 60.
Older people have retired to Florida for decades. It's slowing down a little.
They could use some of those immigrants to do the work.

[X-band '01]

“Probably gaining”. (Large Eye Roll)
Paul just can’t admit that DeSantis has it all going on- to the detriment of California and New York, especially, where people are moving from. And those aren’t just retirees. They are younger folks looking for freedom and school choice for their kids.
From Blue to Red- just bleeding people.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/28/new-census-data-shows-population-is-booming-in-florida/

And people are also moving out of a red state like Ohio as well. Georgia, Arizona and Nevada are other hotspots where people are moving to and they're not exactly solid red states anymore.

[Masterofreality]

Thanks for proving my point (which I didn't bother to look up) that yes, in fact, Florida's population is growing.
Over 50% of the growth is over 60.
Older people have retired to Florida for decades. It's slowing down a little.
They could use some of those immigrants to do the work.

What point?
You said “probably”?
And nice age discrimination. Paul thinks that people sixty and over don’t work.
But, uh huh. Your side likes discriminations. How else to explain why all these Democrat run cities have had unchanged poverty pockets for decades?
By the way, how’s your Retirement Account doing under the White House Puppet?

[Masterofreality]

And people are also moving out of a red state like Ohio as well. Georgia, Arizona and Nevada are other hotspots where people are moving to and they're not exactly solid red states anymore.

The guy said Florida Band taking a shot at DeSantis. Focus

[bobbiemcgee]

Guess DeSatanis held up his texas immigrants trip to Delaware because he needed help from Biden.

[xuphan]

These idiots in congress can’t even keep the government from shutting down year after year. Yet these same idiots still get paid while other government officials don’t get paid during these shutdowns. I bet if these idiots didn’t get paid when the government shuts down that it wouldn’t shutdown. Corrupt politics at its finest.

[xubrew]

Meanwhile, in Brazil this weekend....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uySgklnlX3Y

[xubrew]

I never thought of Newt Gingrich as being a complete moron. But then I saw this...

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1574494476596396064

[xuwillie]

Meanwhile, in Brazil this weekend....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uySgklnlX3Y

I can only watch about 10 seconds of that guy before he annoys the hell out of me.

[bobbiemcgee]

Fascist who was cheered at CPAC is new Italian prime minister 100 years after Mussolini. Hope she doesn't reach a similar fate.

[Masterofreality]

Fascist who was cheered at CPAC is new Italian prime minister 100 years after Mussolini. Hope she doesn't reach a similar fate.

Hmmmm. Not quite. She’s Christian with moral Family values. But you do you Bobbie.

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/giorgia-meloni-is-no-springtime-for-italian-fascism/

[bobbiemcgee]

Haha did you even read the article? "goodbye to democracy", Brothers of Mussolini party'. Yes, Mussolini was a christian. Guess you love the Fascists?

[xubrew]

Meloni is definitely far right. I think comparing her to Mussolini is a bit of a stretch. She claims to support Ukraine and that she wants Italy to remain in the EU, although there is speculation as to whether or not those claims are genuine. I think her appeal is that there are groups of people in Italy that love them some Italy, and are afraid that the country is losing its identity. A lot of countries in Europe are like that. They love them some them and don't want the identity of their nation to change. Immigration is also a hot topic issue over there.

The thing is that the PM just doesn't have THAT much power. Italy is almost comedically bureaucratic, so any elected leader is going to have trouble getting anything done. When things don't get done, people blame them even though they've basically been placed in an impossible position. I don't think she'll end up quite like Mussolini, but it wouldn't shock me that if in a year everyone is ready to throw her out of office.

[GoMuskies]

Based on the people whose heads she's made explode, I kind of like her.

[noteggs]

Speaking of explosions, this may not turn at well.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1125401980/nord-stream-leaks-explosions-russia-natural-gas-sabotage

[paulxu]

5 vendors refuse to copy documents for the plaintiff in the Mar-a-Lago civil case.

What a surprise.

[Masterofreality]

Haha did you even read the article? "goodbye to democracy", Brothers of Mussolini party'. Yes, Mussolini was a christian. Guess you love the Fascists?

Yes I read the article. I have no idea where ur coming up with your BS.
It says clearly that her election is no “Springtime for Fascism”. It also says this:
“Meloni isn’t cozying up to Putin like her other potential coalition partners on the right. Instead, she says she believes in NATO. She’s shrewd enough to realize that there’s no point in joining the losing side. She wants to be a winner and knows that Vladimir Putin, mired in Ukraine, is history.”

Stop trying to rewrite an article

[xuwillie]

Yes I read the article. I have no idea where ur coming up with your BS.
It says clearly that her election is no “Springtime for Fascism”. It also says this:
“Meloni isn’t cozying up to Putin like her other potential coalition partners on the right. Instead, she says she believes in NATO. She’s shrewd enough to realize that there’s no point in joining the losing side. She wants to be a winner and knows that Vladimir Putin, mired in Ukraine, is history.”

Stop trying to rewrite an article

Don't know why you continue to argue with someone that has half brain if that. Just let Paul and bobbie do what the do and hopefully this thread will close soon.

[Masterofreality]

Fascist who was cheered at CPAC is new Italian prime minister 100 years after Mussolini. Hope she doesn't reach a similar fate.


Ha!. Interesting that Bobbie is so into the history of political parties. Since, you know, the US Democratic party that he supports is the party of the KKK, Slavery and lynchings years ago around the same time as Mussolini and before. That's a nice loooooooooooong history, there buddy.
I guess US history wasn't one of the subjects that Bobbie was interested in when he allegedly was educated at Xavier, but Italian history was?

[Masterofreality]

Don't know why you continue to argue with someone that has half brain if that. Just let Paul and bobbie do what the do and hopefully this thread will close soon.

I don't want to close soon. I want them to keep stepping on their dicks so the rational ones among us can call them to account.
The stupid garbage they post, and that they echo from ultra biased sources like WaPo, NY Times and MSNBC, cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged, or we fall into, errr, leftist Fascism.
You know, where opposition is suppressed like what the main stream media is doing today?

[paulxu]

Hmmmm. Not quite. She’s Christian with moral Family values.


Giorgia Meloni will be a minister-president whose political examples will be Viktor Orbàn and Donald Trump,” Katharina Barley, the vice-president of the European Parliament, declared. Maybe so, but will she actually be able to transform her country?

Fratelli d’Italia, the Brothers of Italy, is a nationalist party that traces its roots back to Mussolini and is led by...

Great; another fake Christian on the world stage.

[noteggs]

Interesting if we trace the “roots” (according to the quote) of the democrat party. You know that whole slavery and segregation thing like MOR pointed out. Weird how someone who’s VP of the EP would criticize a country first agenda.

Never seen someone get this much criticism before she takes her first day in office. Let us see how she governs and let the criticisms begin. Also, thought we were supposed to support the will of the people especially after our last election? Guess will of people argument only works if your side gets elected.

[Strange Brew]

Interesting if we trace the “roots” (according to the quote) of the democrat party. You know that whole slavery and segregation thing like MOR pointed out. Weird how someone who’s VP of the EP would criticize a country first agenda.

Never seen someone get this much criticism before she takes her first day in office. Let us see how she governs and let the criticisms begin. Also, thought we were supposed to support the will of the people especially after our last election? Guess will of people argument only works if your side gets elected.

Thank you, very measured post.

But that not how it works for some. The template is, "we don't like them or their politics. They're Mussolini or Hitler!"

[GoMuskies]

Thoughts and prayers to Karine Jean-Pierre's liquor stash as it is clearly going to be absolutely oblilterated tonight after she was forced to go in front of the press and pretend like Joe Biden looking for a dead Congresswoman in a crowd was no big deal.

[paulxu]

The analogy of her being Trump-like or Orban-like came from the Vice President of the European Union, not someone here.

Somehow I have a difficult time reconciling that sort of person as a "Christian with moral family values."

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't know why you continue to argue with someone that has half brain if that. Just let Paul and bobbie do what the do and hopefully this thread will close soon.

Didn't realize you and MOR were so Pro-Fascist. Thought you said you were moving to Florida. Now would be a good time. You live in a blue state where the vast majority don't agree with your bs. Move. Take Boebert with you.

[bobbiemcgee]

I don't want to close soon. I want them to keep stepping on their dicks so the rational ones among us can call them to account.
The stupid garbage they post, and that they echo from ultra biased sources like WaPo, NY Times and MSNBC, cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged, or we fall into, errr, leftist Fascism.
You know, where opposition is suppressed like what the main stream media is doing today?

You couldn't step on a dick because you're a pussy for Fascism and the ultra right. Keep reading breibart, Bannon and infowars until they get sued out of business or go to jail. Your the QB on Team Crazy, election deniers, sandy hook deniers, insurretionists and child abusers in Ohio. THE GOP is laughable.

[bobbiemcgee]

5 vendors refuse to copy documents for the plaintiff in the Mar-a-Lago civil case.

What a surprise.

Everyone knows the cheap bastard would try to stiff 'em. That's why his new atty got 3 million upfront (donated by the MOR's of the world) and then refused to defend the asshole with the special master because he had no case.

[Masterofreality]

You couldn't step on a dick because you're a pussy for Fascism and the ultra right. Keep reading breibart, Bannon and infowars until they get sued out of business or go to jail. Your the QB on Team Crazy, election deniers, sandy hook deniers, insurretionists and child abusers in Ohio. THE GOP is laughable.

I read none of those and YOUR party is the party of the KKK and slavery.
Stacy Abrams and Barbara Boxer denied elections. Both Democrats.
Hilary Clinton called Trump an “Illegitimate President”.
Et Tu Brute. (No question mark).

[Masterofreality]

The analogy of her being Trump-like or Orban-like came from the Vice President of the European Union, not someone here.

Somehow I have a difficult time reconciling that sort of person as a "Christian with moral family values."

Of course Paul in his Globalist view believes that the head of the European Union, which is in the process of falling apart, is someone to be quoted.
ITALY AND AMERICA FIRST!!

[bobbiemcgee]

The kkk votes 100% republican. Duh. Pubs started the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys. Same philosophy.

[noteggs]

Thoughts and prayers to Karine Jean-Pierre's liquor stash as it is clearly going to be absolutely oblilterated tonight after she was forced to go in front of the press and pretend like Joe Biden looking for a dead Congresswoman in a crowd was no big deal.

That was some crazy shit! Can’t believe he just lowered the flags at the wh and praised her life accomplishments last month.

Yea KJP should have said he screwed up. That attempted cover was embarrassing and binge worthy.

[Strange Brew]

That was some crazy shit! Can’t believe he just lowered the flags at the wh and praised her life accomplishments last month.

Yea KJP should have said he screwed up. That attempted cover was embarrassing and binge worthy.

It’s just gaslighting. It’s obvious he doesn’t know what’s going on but the WH can’t admit it.

He’ll probably declare emergency relief for SC instead of FL.

[paulxu]

It’s just gaslighting. It’s obvious he doesn’t know what’s going on but the WH can’t admit it.

He’ll probably declare emergency relief for SC instead of FL.

SC can always use relief, emergency or otherwise.

[GoMuskies]

He’ll probably declare emergency relief for SC instead of FL.

Strom? Where are you Strom? Is Strom here?

[Masterofreality]

The kkk votes 100% republican. Duh. Pubs started the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys. Same philosophy.

And leftists Dems started Antifa? What’s your point?
The Dems policies keep minorities trapped in dependence & poverty. *Kinda like Slavery still?
Not my fault you didn’t know history when trying to slam a position other than yours. Read up!

[Xville]

And leftists Dems started Antifa? What’s your point?
The Dems policies keep minorities trapped in dependence & poverty. *Kinda like Slavery still?
Not my fault you didn’t know history when trying to slam a position other than yours. Read up!

the point is that you said this:

I read none of those and YOUR party is the party of the KKK and slavery

When in fact the KKK votes strictly for your party. It's not really that hard to follow.

I really do wonder sometimes what world you live in. You continually disparage Paul and Bobbie for the exact same things you do but on the other side. I.E. Chastise everything the opposite side does and says while completely ignoring your own party's faults. Something about rocks and glass houses.

[Strange Brew]

the point is that you said this:

I read none of those and YOUR party is the party of the KKK and slavery

When in fact the KKK votes strictly for your party. It's not really that hard to follow.

I really do wonder sometimes what world you live in. You continually disparage Paul and Bobbie for the exact same things you do but on the other side. I.E. Chastise everything the opposite side does and says while completely ignoring your own party's faults. Something about rocks and glass houses.

Does somebody actually track the voting habits?

Like does every Klan member put it on their voter registration?

[xukeith]

The left offers hope and change to the poor but the poor stays poor and lives with very little change over the past 100 years.

[Smails]

You couldn't step on a dick because you're a pussy for Fascism and the ultra right. Keep reading breibart, Bannon and infowars until they get sued out of business or go to jail. Your the QB on Team Crazy, election deniers, sandy hook deniers, insurretionists and child abusers in Ohio. THE GOP is laughable.

LOL...I love when Bobbie gets his weed muscles on the internet. Great stuff here

[bobbiemcgee]

Try contributing to the discussion. If your constantly name calling, you're losing the argument.

[Masterofreality]

the point is that you said this:

I read none of those and YOUR party is the party of the KKK and slavery

When in fact the KKK votes strictly for your party. It's not really that hard to follow.

I really do wonder sometimes what world you live in. You continually disparage Paul and Bobbie for the exact same things you do but on the other side. I.E. Chastise everything the opposite side does and says while completely ignoring your own party's faults. Something about rocks and glass houses.

I was referring to the history of a Political Party- which Bobbie started when he tried to disparage Meloni’s party in Italy by going back in time.
Guess what his, (and your (?)) Democratic Party is the original party of slavery, the KKK and lynchings.
Keep up kid, or, at least read the entire series of posts before pulling one line “out of context”.

Finally. “My Party?” I’m an Independent who didn’t vote for Trump either time, and am not beholden to either side.
I do believe in fairness & freedom though. I vote candidates, not party narrative. Just stop
And, yeah. Show me the voter registrations of KKK members or you have zero verification.

[Masterofreality]

And, by the way- this from Democrat Nancy Pelosi TODAY!:
“ PELOSI: "In Florida, some of the farmers and the growers [are] saying 'why are you shipping these immigrants up north? We need them to pick the crops down here.'"

A) No “Farmer or Grower” has been quoted saying that.
B) Nancy Pelosi is promoting “crop picking” as the only thing that these folks can do? Reports are that many are professionals from Venenzuela who filed for asylum.
What a disgusting Elite Racist.

[Xville]

I was referring to the history of a Political Party- which Bobbie started when he tried to disparage Meloni’s party in Italy by going back in time.
Guess what his, (and your (?)) Democratic Party is the original party of slavery, the KKK and lynchings.
Keep up kid, or, at least read the entire series of posts before pulling one line “out of context”.

Finally. “My Party?” I’m an Independent who didn’t vote for Trump either time, and am not beholden to either side.
I do believe in fairness & freedom though. I vote candidates, not party narrative. Just stop
And, yeah. Show me the voter registrations of KKK members or you have zero verification.

Sure you are. You’re an independent and Kate upton wants to date me.

[X-band '01]

I was referring to the history of a Political Party- which Bobbie started when he tried to disparage Meloni’s party in Italy by going back in time.
Guess what his, (and your (?)) Democratic Party is the original party of slavery, the KKK and lynchings.
Keep up kid, or, at least read the entire series of posts before pulling one line “out of context”.

Finally. “My Party?” I’m an Independent who didn’t vote for Trump either time, and am not beholden to either side.
I do believe in fairness & freedom though. I vote candidates, not party narrative. Just stop
And, yeah. Show me the voter registrations of KKK members or you have zero verification.

You also conveniently left out the part where those same Democrats switched sides and are now part of today's Republican party.

Personally, I'd love to see Reader's Digest do a follow-up of independents they interviewed over a decade ago and ask why they became radicalized by the alt-right.

[Masterofreality]

Sure you are. You’re an independent and Kate upton wants to date me.

I believe in Policies, not party.
There is a Readers Digest edition from October 2008 where I and 6 other Independent voters are profiled. The title of the article is “The Supervoters” authored by Carl Cannon and Carol Kaufman-both of whom interviewed me- and my name is the first 2 words in the article. My views have been proudly published in a National Magazine.

What do you have???

[Masterofreality]

You also conveniently left out the part where those same Democrats switched sides and are now part of today's Republican party.

Personally, I'd love to see Reader's Digest do a follow-up of independents they interviewed over a decade ago and ask why they became radicalized by the alt-right.

Please name those “Democrats switched”. Let’s analyze their reasons, please.
Guess what? I WAS interviewed by Readers Digest as an Independent.
No one I know became alt right. Nice assumption.
You are being infected with Paul-sy.

By the way. Know who switched from the party supposedly of the working man? Democrats who are nothing more than lecturing know it all Coastal elitists who keep pushing radical issues like gender “affirmation”, denial of Honors Programs plus crazy curriculums and Police defunding that put underprivileged neighborhoods more at risk.
THEY have moved away from Middle America.

[xuwillie]

Sure you are. You’re an independent and Kate upton wants to date me.

And funny you claim to be middle of the road. You’re about as bad as Bobbie and Paul these days.

[bobbiemcgee]

Does somebody actually track the voting habits?

Like does every Klan member put it on their voter registration?



And, yeah. Show me the voter registrations of KKK members or you have zero verification.

Hahaha... I don't remember the KKK PAC for Obama and Harris. Do you think they were "getting out the vote for blacks?

[paulxu]

I think Trump has infected our national discourse with people feeling like they have to call others names to demean them.
It seemed to have begun with the Republican candidates debates, and has been picked up and followed whenever someone's ideas are questioned.

It's very childish and reminiscent of 3rd grade bullying.

[bobbiemcgee]

And funny you claim to be middle of the road. You’re about as bad as Bobbie and Paul these days.

Yeah, you're more of a banana republican....always RIGHT about everything.

https://www.amazon.com/Banana-Republicans-Turning-America-One-Party/dp/1585423424

[Xville]

I believe in Policies, not party.
There is a Readers Digest edition from October 2008 where I and 6 other Independent voters are profiled. The title of the article is “The Supervoters” authored by Carl Cannon and Carol Kaufman-both of whom interviewed me- and my name is the first 2 words in the article. My views have been proudly published in a National Magazine.

What do you have???

Good for you? You are always so proud of yourself for things that don’t have anything to do with the conversation. Maybe you were trying to explain that you were an independent thinker 14 years ago? Congrats?

If you actually were an independent at this period in time, you wouldn’t come on here day after day to vilify the other side, but instead have some actual political discourse.

[Masterofreality]

Good for you? You are always so proud of yourself for things that don’t have anything to do with the conversation. Maybe you were trying to explain that you were an independent thinker 14 years ago? Congrats?

If you actually were an independent at this period in time, you wouldn’t come on here day after day to vilify the other side, but instead have some actual political discourse.

You called me out. I answered.
I have receipts for my beliefs. You have nothing.
Interesting that you never call out Paul or Bobbie for “villifying the other side”.
Enough from you biased cretin.

[Xville]

You called me out. I answered.
I have receipts for my beliefs. You have nothing.
Interesting that you never call out Paul or Bobbie for “villifying the other side”.
Enough from you biased cretin.

Um good for you? 14 years ago is a long time ago, especially in todays climate.

You consistently call out Paul on every single post of his with a condescending attitude, he doesn’t do that to you. That’s the difference. You have little respect for views outside of your little world

[bobbiemcgee]

tRUMP sez Mitch has a death wish and called his wife Coco Chow. Geezus, who could vote for this idiot again.

[Strange Brew]

Um good for you? 14 years ago is a long time ago, especially in todays climate.

You consistently call out Paul on every single post of his with a condescending attitude, he doesn’t do that to you. That’s the difference. You have little respect for views outside of your little world

Careful MOR. He’s smarter than the PHDs who taught him..

Haha.

[Strange Brew]

tRUMP sez Mitch has a death wish and called his wife Coco Chow. Geezus, who could vote for this idiot again.

Jeez, who could vote for Joe, I see dead people Biden?

You’d have to be a special kind of stupid to vote for Joe again.

[Xville]

Careful MOR. He’s smarter than the PHDs who taught him..

Haha.

Careful everyone… here’s the scholar who still doesn’t understand what the Supreme Court actually does. Haha

Maybe you were one of my teachers

[Strange Brew]

Careful everyone… here’s the scholar who still doesn’t understand what the Supreme Court actually does. Haha

Maybe you were one of my teachers

I do. You clearly don’t.

You don’t know anything about how it is designed.

Read more, post less.

[Xville]

I do. You clearly don’t.

You don’t know anything about how it is designed.

Read more, post less.


I know exactly what the supreme courts role is. You clearly do not as you have illustrated here over and over. You somehow believe that just because your opinion is different than actual fact, that it’s not the way that it is. You can take your tone and shove it up your condescending ass.

[bobbiemcgee]

Jeez, who could vote for Joe, I see dead people Biden?

You’d have to be a special kind of stupid to vote for Joe again.

Wow. That's all you got. Your candidate has 20 or more suits for fraud, rape, insurrection, unlawful possession of top secrets docs, etc.,etc. He continues to antagonize the republican party with his insults and "death wishes". But apparently has your vote.

[Strange Brew]

I know exactly what the supreme courts role is. You clearly do not as you have illustrated here over and over. You somehow believe that just because your opinion is different than actual fact, that it’s not the way that it is. You can take your tone and shove it up your condescending ass.

You are a total waste of time.

I’m sure your teachers fell the same way as I do.

[Xville]

You are a total waste of time.

I’m sure your teachers fell the same way as I do.

Total waste of time yet you keep responding, and interjecting your all knowing self into other people’s conversations. You’re a pompous ass who thinks your opinions are worth more than actual fact. Maybe read up on the Supreme Court, you could learn a thing or two. You could start with their own website.

[Strange Brew]

Wow. That's all you got. Your candidate has 20 or more suits for fraud, rape, insurrection, unlawful possession of top secrets docs, etc.,etc. He continues to antagonize the republican party with his insults and "death wishes". But apparently has your vote.

That’s the thing about the law Bobbie. It’s not what you know or think about someone, it’s what you can prove.

I’m not a lawyer but my Dad was a damn good one. Still wondering if I could run a gas station? Haha.

[Strange Brew]

Total waste of time yet you keep responding, and interjecting your all knowing self into other people’s conversations. You’re a a pompous ass who thinks he knows way more than he actually does. At least someone thinks you are important.

Nope, I’m all in until you get it.

Pompous ass? That’s new. You can do better since I’m very sure you aced both AP English exams like me.

Let’s go kiddo.

[Xville]

Nope, I’m all in until you get it.

Pompous ass? That’s new. You can do better since I’m very sure you aced both AP English exams like me.

Let’s go kiddo.

Lol thank you for proving my point. By the way I aced my ap history class, which allowed me to understand what the Supreme Court does.

I understand what role you believe the Supreme Court should have, but that’s just the thing, facts get in the way.

[Strange Brew]

Lol thank you for proving my point. By the way I aced my ap history class, which allowed me to understand what the Supreme Court does.

Cool beans bro. Did you happen to read the Constitution? Still waiting. This is fun.

[xubrew]

Mitch McConnell probably won’t say it publicly, but he’s anxiously awaiting for when the Justice Dept will finally indict, and ultimately arrest, Donald Trump…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/01/trump-mcconnell-death-wish/

[Strange Brew]

Mitch McConnell probably won’t say it publicly, but he’s anxiously awaiting for when the Justice Dept will finally indict, and ultimately arrest, Donald Trump…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/01/trump-mcconnell-death-wish/

I’m sure he is. The turtle is way past his prime.

[xubrew]

I’m sure he is. The turtle is way past his prime.

He had a prime?

[Smails]

Try contributing to the discussion. If your constantly name calling, you're losing the argument.

LOL...have you met you? Here's some of your posts AFTER you posted this.

"Yeah, you're more of a banana republican"
"who could vote for this idiot again"
"You couldn't step on a dick because you're a pussy for Fascism and the ultra right."


Do you need clarification on what name calling is? If so, I can help you out.

[bobbiemcgee]

LOL...have you met you? Here's some of your posts AFTER you posted this.

"Yeah, you're more of a banana republican"
"who could vote for this idiot again"
"You couldn't step on a dick because you're a pussy for Fascism and the ultra right."


Do you need clarification on what name calling is? If so, I can help you out.

banana republican isn't an insult...fact. Yeah, i responded when MOR was talking about dicks and I called trump an idiot which is also fact. Meanwhile you made me laugh calling out name callers as you are the worst.

[xubrew]

banana republican isn't an insult...fact. Yeah, i responded when MOR was talking about dicks and I called trump an idiot which is also fact. Meanwhile you made me laugh calling out name callers as you are the worst.

Yeah, there is an actual political science definition to "Banana Republic." I don't think there's one for "idiot" but I still feel that it's a word that accurately describes Donald Trump. And, to be fair, a lot of Democratic strategists and leaders.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yeah, there is an actual political science definition to "Banana Republic." I don't think there's one for "idiot" but I still feel that it's a word that accurately describes Donald Trump. And, to be fair, a lot of Democratic strategists and leaders.

I think if he said you had a death wish and called your wife dog food, you might think an idiot was speaking. And the things he said about Cruz' wife and father might have earned him a punch in the mouth if Cruz had any balls.

[paulxu]

The analogy of her being Trump-like or Orban-like came from the Vice President of the European Union, not someone here.

Somehow I have a difficult time reconciling that sort of person as a "Christian with moral family values."


Of course Paul in his Globalist view believes that the head of the European Union, which is in the process of falling apart, is someone to be quoted.
ITALY AND AMERICA FIRST!!

I believe the European Union and NATO have gotten stronger under the current administration, after the prior one went to some lengths to disparage the alliance with the United States.
Then I wondered where I got the quote from the vice president of the European Union.

Then I realized where it came from.


Hmmmm. Not quite. She’s Christian with moral Family values. But you do you Bobbie.

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/giorgia-meloni-is-no-springtime-for-italian-fascism/

[xubrew]

I think if he said you had a death wish and called your wife dog food, you might think an idiot was speaking. And the things he said about Cruz' wife and father might have earned him a punch in the mouth if Cruz had any balls.

The proper response for anyone in the GOP that is attacked by Trump is...

"It is very likely the man will die in prison. More people voted against him than any other person in history, and he's about to lose his entire fortune. There has arguably never been a bigger loser in the history of humanity! No one has ever started out with so much and ended up in prison with nothing at the end of their life! But hey, he's good at impersonating a 5th grade bully and hurling insults all over the place! If he were on the playground, he'd get a lot of high fives! You gotta at least give that to the guy!"

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE from The Left, would consider any GOP candidate who said this to be a hero! They'd get 80 percent of the vote!!

I'm not even kidding. Any GOP candidate who openly turns on Trump will win over enough voters from The Left to win any election. Most Republicans would almost never vote for a Democrat. There are a lot of Democrats would almost never vote for a Republican, but there are also a lot of Democrats who would. The reason? A lot of people who vote for Democrats aren't REALLY Democrats.

[Smails]

Meanwhile you made me laugh calling out name callers as you are the worst.

Please cite some examples of me being the worst name caller on this forum. I'll hang up and listen.

For the record, calling someone an idiot is an opinion (regardless of how strong you feel) and most definitely name calling. As is calling someone a pussy. Again, I think you might not fully grasp the concept of name calling.

[Smails]

banana republican isn't an insult...fact.

Again, I think you have trouble seeing the difference in your strongly held opinions and what facts really are. We all know what a Banana Republic is, but to call someone a Banana Republican is to insinuate that someone favors a politically unstable country. Hence name calling. If you're going to rail against something as horrific as name calling, you should try to abstinence from said practice yourself. Be better.

[Strange Brew]

He had a prime?

Hmm, fair point. :)

[Masterofreality]

I believe the European Union and NATO have gotten stronger under the current administration, after the prior one went to some lengths to disparage the alliance with the United States.

Uh, the European Union has lost Britain and is on the verge of falling apart.
NATO has gotten stronger because Putin has presented a true tangible threat. The current administration had nothing to do with it- that is except tacitly encouraging Putin to invade when President Brandon said out loud in a press conference that the “US would not retaliate against a minor incursion”. The prior administration made NATO stronger by exposing the lack of payments that countries were making to it’s strength. It’s a damn good thing Trump called them out.
Paul with his incredible blue glassed statements in perfect context.

[paulxu]

Trump has regularly tried to claim credit for making NATO countries pay more, though the reality is more complex. NATO countries were already increasing their funding substantially before Trump’s presidency, following Russia’s annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014. The guidelines state that each should spend 2 percent of its gross domestic product on defense by 2024.


“By attacking Montenegro & questioning our obligations under NATO, the President is playing right into Putin’s hands,” McCain wrote.

From Wes Clark after Trump indicated he might not help defend another NATO member:

As former NATO Allied Commander, I know NATO’s Article 5 exists to PREVENT war. That’s why it’s only been invoked once – after 9/11. Montenegro is still sending troops to Afghanistan, for us. Worrying to hear Trump use Russian talking points with Tucker Carlson, about Montenegro.

[Masterofreality]

From Wes Clark after Trump indicated he might not help defend another NATO member:

Trump was a negotiator based on his real estate background. U and the mainstream press always take his statements as “what he will do” as opposed to what he “indicated” he might do. BIG difference.
And it was proven in the 2016 campaign that numerous Euro countries like France & Germany were underpaying their percent obligations. Even Obama accused them of that.
Wrong again Paul. Even Dem mouthpiece NBC news acknowledged their shortage-with excuses of course.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/five-reasons-why-nato-nations-don-t-always-pay-their-n619966

Oh, and as to a stronger EU? Paul’s wrong again too! Even Europeans think it will.

http://www.thetower.org/article/why-europe-is-falling-apart/

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/17/majority-of-europeans-think-the-eu-will-fall-apart-within-20-years.html

[bobbiemcgee]

Please cite some examples of me being the worst name caller on this forum. I'll hang up and listen.

For the record, calling someone an idiot is an opinion (regardless of how strong you feel) and most definitely name calling. As is calling someone a pussy. Again, I think you might not fully grasp the concept of name calling.

"Comrade" Snowden? 'Wackadoodle right wingers" ? "weed muscles"? I can go on and on. Pls explain the difference between "wackadoodle republicans" and "banana republicans". "MTG is a loon". "loser", "Liberal Hack Journalism", "Josh Hawley is an Idiot". Pls explain why you said he was an idiot but I can't say trump is. "Paul vomiting", "warped views", "you look like a fool", two posters described as "Frick & Frack". And finally,

"So you think someone needs to get their ass kicked for calling someone an idiot? Interesting take when preaching respect and telling others how they should treat one and other." haha

Your hypocritical words. I got tired of searching. Liar. (FACT)

[paulxu]

Those negotiating skills were so good he got impeached over them.

[Masterofreality]

Those negotiating skills were so good he got impeached over them.

But not convicted in a partisan procedure based on debunked info.
I still await Adam Schiff’s “verified collusion data”.
BTW. Since your side started this circus, wait until Biden is impeached over numerous REAL issues.

[bobbiemcgee]

"Comrade" Snowden? 'Wackadoodle right wingers" ? "weed muscles"? I can go on and on. Pls explain the difference between "wackadoodle republicans" and "banana republicans". "MTG is a loon". "loser", "Liberal Hack Journalism", "Josh Hawley is an Idiot". Pls explain why you said he was an idiot but I can't say trump is. "Paul vomiting", "warped views", "you look like a fool", two posters described as "Frick & Frack". And finally,

"So you think someone needs to get their ass kicked for calling someone an idiot? Interesting take when preaching respect and telling others how they should treat one and other." haha

Your hypocritical words. I got tired of searching. Liar. (FACT)
Called boozehound a "smug prick"
I'll hang up and listen.

[paulxu]

His impeachment had nothing to do with Russian election involvement in 2016.
It had to do with him abusing the power of his office in strong arming an ally (the Ukrainians) to do his bidding against his political opponent, and threatening to withhold Congressionally approved assistance.
And the second article was for obstructing the investigation.

Those were real issues, as were the issues in his second impeachment.

[XU_Lou]

Called boozehound a "smug prick"
I'll hang up and listen.

Was he wrong?

[Masterofreality]

His impeachment had nothing to do with Russian election involvement in 2016.
It had to do with him abusing the power of his office in strong arming an ally (the Ukrainians) to do his bidding against his political opponent, and threatening to withhold Congressionally approved assistance.
And the second article was for obstructing the investigation.

Those were real issues, as were the issues in his second impeachment.

Zelensky said numerous times it was a proper phone call. I’m REALLY glad you brought this up!!
The REAL issue was Hunter $80,000/month Biden, which the Dems were trying to shield by this sham procedure.
Yeah, Paul. In light of the Hunter Biden laptop story which has proven to be true, with the involvement of “The 10% Big Guy”, I really don’t think you want to go down this path. That’s one of the things Biden will be Impeached for soon.
Get ready for fun!!!!

And what about liar Adam Schiff, Paul?

[paulxu]

When your article of impeachment states you have abused the power of your office, then all you've got left is to talk about a laptop?

Seriously?

[Masterofreality]

When your article of impeachment states you have abused the power of your office, then all you've got left is to talk about a laptop?

Seriously?

What a weak ass response.
Yup. Because A. You refuse to acknowledge that it was a 100% partisan procedure, that the actual facts prove was irrelevant (The articles were 100% written by Democrats)
B. The laptop was a scandal (proven to be accurate now that even The NY Times admits it’s true) that the mainstream press, Facebook and Twitter surpressed the story in October 2020. You refuse to address the issue.
Hahaha. More to come.

[paulxu]

“The experts found the data had been repeatedly accessed and copied by people other than Hunter Biden over nearly three years,” our report explained, with those we spoke with being unable to “reach definitive conclusions about the contents as a whole, including whether all of it originated from a single computer or could have been assembled from files from multiple computers and put on the portable drive.”

For example:

“[An expert] also found records on the drive that indicated someone may have accessed the drive from a West Coast location in October 2020, little more than a week after the first New York Post stories on Hunter Biden’s laptop appeared.”
“Over the next few days, somebody created three additional folders on the drive, titled, ‘Mail,' ‘Salacious Pics Package’ and ‘Big Guy File’ — an apparent reference to Joe Biden.”

Good luck with your laptop deal. Sounds like a lot of people may have helped

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/12/now-warning-about-hunter-biden-laptop-disinfo-guy-who-leaked-it/

[Masterofreality]

Good luck with your laptop deal. Sounds like a lot of people may have helped

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/12/now-warning-about-hunter-biden-laptop-disinfo-guy-who-leaked-it/

This from another of your fave media: The biased Washington Post.
You got problems, and Hunter was dealing with an enemy- China

. In particular, there are verified emails illuminating a deal Hunter Biden developed with a fast-growing Chinese energy conglomerate, CEFC China Energy, for which he was paid nearly $5 million, and other business relationships. Those business dealings are the subject of a separate Washington Post story published at the same time as this one on the forensic examinations of the drive.
The drive also includes some verified emails from Hunter Biden’s work with Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company for which he was a board member.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/hunter-biden-laptop-data-examined/

[Smails]

"Comrade" Snowden? 'Wackadoodle right wingers" ? "weed muscles"? I can go on and on. Pls explain the difference between "wackadoodle republicans" and "banana republicans". "MTG is a loon". "loser", "Liberal Hack Journalism", "Josh Hawley is an Idiot". Pls explain why you said he was an idiot but I can't say trump is. "Paul vomiting", "warped views", "you look like a fool", two posters described as "Frick & Frack". And finally,

"So you think someone needs to get their ass kicked for calling someone an idiot? Interesting take when preaching respect and telling others how they should treat one and other." haha

Your hypocritical words. I got tired of searching. Liar. (FACT)

Ohhh Bobbie...bless your heart. How am I a liar? I never said I didn't call people names, only that I'm not the 'worst on the board' as you contend. You are missing my point as usual but that's a bit par for the course for you.

YOU are the one who called out the horror of name calling. I was simply pointing out that you are one of the biggest offenders on this board. See how that works? I never said I was not guilty of doing it..ever. Again, please prove your point that I am the biggest offender on this board. I'd like to see a tally of everyone that shows where they rank. Maybe a top ten or something like that. After all you are the accuser and the burden of proof lies with you. We can all cherry pick our arguments and find examples, but YOU decided to die on the hill of 'quit calling people names'. Personally I don't give a shit, but you seem to really care so you should consider practicing what you preach.

You know what I love about the little search you did? At the very least it proves that I am an equal opportunity name caller..calling out idiocy on both sides of the aisle. Keep up the research. I'm looking forward to the top 10 tally. Weed muscles...I get a chuckle every time I see that one again. Thanks

[paulxu]

So Biden's son had business dealings with China...and that's wrong because...China is "the enemy."

But Trump's daughter Ivanka had/has many business dealings with China...and that's OK because...reasons.

Got it.

[XU_Lou]

Ohhh Bobbie...bless your heart. How am I a liar? I never said I didn't call people names, only that I'm not the 'worst on the board' as you contend. You are missing my point as usual but that's a bit par for the course for you.

YOU are the one who called out the horror of name calling. I was simply pointing out that you are one of the biggest offenders on this board. See how that works? I never said I was not guilty of doing it..ever. Again, please prove your point that I am the biggest offender on this board. I'd like to see a tally of everyone that shows where they rank. Maybe a top ten or something like that. After all you are the accuser and the burden of proof lies with you. We can all cherry pick our arguments and find examples, but YOU decided to die on the hill of 'quit calling people names'. Personally I don't give a shit, but you seem to really care so you should consider practicing what you preach.

You know what I love about the little search you did? At the very least it proves that I am an equal opportunity name caller..calling out idiocy on both sides of the aisle. Keep up the research. I'm looking forward to the top 10 tally. Weed muscles...I get a chuckle every time I see that one again. Thanks

Careful Smails.... there are couple of posters on here that will accuse you of "whataboutism".... as if that's a legitimate argument.... (or is it the left's new way of suppressing opposing speech?)

[Masterofreality]

So Biden's son had business dealings with China...and that's wrong because...China is "the enemy."

But Trump's daughter Ivanka had/has many business dealings with China...and that's OK because...reasons.

Got it.

Stop deferring. I knew you’d just pull that little item out of the morass of criminality that Hunter has committed.

It’s not that Hunter had “business dealings” with China. It’s that he involved “The Big Guy” with payments that were going directly to Big Joe for influence and favors. All of that was displayed on emails and confirmed by former associate Tony Bobuluski in numerous interviews with authorities.
Hunter was also getting $80,000/month from Burisma as an “advisor”, although he had zero knowledge of the field.

Your cheap magician trick sleight of hand ain’t working here Houdini.
Impeachment coming- January 2023- Subject: Joe Biden

And, I must cite the Legitimate New York Post story that broke this mess.
You may not like the messenger, but the message is true. Deal with it.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/01/new-york-times-finally-admit-hunters-laptop-is-real-but-only-to-protect-joe-biden/

[paulxu]

For example:

“[An expert] also found records on the drive that indicated someone may have accessed the drive from a West Coast location in October 2020, little more than a week after the first New York Post stories on Hunter Biden’s laptop appeared.”
“Over the next few days, somebody created three additional folders on the drive, titled, ‘Mail,' ‘Salacious Pics Package’ and ‘Big Guy File’ — an apparent reference to Joe Biden.”

So the "Big Guy" file was created on the laptop AFTER the NY Post story. That makes a whole lot of sense.

Somehow I think you might have a little trouble using this laptop as evidence of anything except the son's stupidity.

Why...maybe you could even make a movie out of it that suckers would pay money to buy. Or something.....

[Masterofreality]

So the "Big Guy" file was created on the laptop AFTER the NY Post story. That makes a whole lot of sense.

Somehow I think you might have a little trouble using this laptop as evidence of anything except the son's stupidity.

Why...maybe you could even make a movie out of it that suckers would pay money to buy. Or something.....

Where does this conspiracy theory come from? You are awfully QAnon or actually BLUEaNON Paul.

There have been zero denials from the White House about the veracity of this story. No denial.
That speaks louder than the story itself.
Impeachment coming 2023

[paulxu]

The "conspiracy theory" comes from the same source that you quoted for your "Chinese business dealings."

You suppose those are a conspiracy too?

[Masterofreality]

The "conspiracy theory" comes from the same source that you quoted for your "Chinese business dealings."

You suppose those are a conspiracy too?

NY Post is clear in its reporting on the original Laptop contents. No White House denial.

“ Found no evidence? They must have missed the laptop e-mails about a 10% cut of one deal being reserved for “the big guy,” who Bobulinski confirmed was Joe Biden.

Not to mention the well-established fact that Hunter travelled to China with his dad, whom President Barack Obama had charged with overseeing relations with China, Ukraine and other nations where Hunter immediately started cutting deals.

In short, the WaPo and Times are still doing their best to suppress much of the story, even as they admit (begrudgingly, indirectly and with nary a hint of an apology to the folks who broke it all 18 months ago) that the laptop was real all along.”

Ivanka’s business was never tied to Donald, Mr Misdirection Houdini.

Keep yapping.
Just like you’ve been yapping for 6 years ignoring malfeasance and terrible Democrat representation while screaming “The Walls are Closing In!” Re Trump.
Result. Nothing close to a Trump conviction . The only Accusations/Impeachment attempts were from horribly partisan and biased sides. Trump remains free to run for office again. Cry more. Yap all you want into the void, I don’t care.
Meanwhile- Biden Impeachment 2023. Enjoy it.

[paulxu]

You quoted the Washington Post to point out Hunter's emails with China.

The same source noted the "big guy" file was put on the computer AFTER the NY Post story broke.

Not all that hard to imagine something doesn't add up.

[bobbiemcgee]

Please cite some examples of me being the worst name caller on this forum. .

I cited many examples. Guess you didn't notice. Nice deflection calling me a drug addict and laughing about it. Made my point. You got played.

[XU_Lou]

Democrat "equity" in real life:

"According to the Centers for Disease Control’s most recent data, Black women accounted for 33.6 percent of all reported abortions in 2018, even though they make up 13 percent of women in the United States. Black women also had the highest abortion rate (21.2 abortions per 1,000 women) and ratio (335 abortions per 1,000 live births)."

"The racial disparity in abortions is largely intentional: A study based on 2010 Census data shows that nearly eight out of ten Planned Parenthood abortion clinics are within walking distance of predominantly Black or Hispanic neighborhoods.

More specifically, Planned Parenthood intentionally located 86 percent of its abortion facilities in or near minority neighborhoods in the 25 U.S. counties with the most abortions.

These 25 counties contain 19 percent of the U.S. population, including 28 percent of the Black population and 37 percent of the Hispanic/Latino population. In 12 of these counties, Blacks and Hispanics/Latinos are more than 50 percent of the population."

https://pjmedia.com/culture/marktapscott/2022/10/04/liberty-counsel-exposes-eugenics-racism-inherent-in-pro-abortion-movement-n1634411

[Masterofreality]

You quoted the Washington Post to point out Hunter's emails with China.

The same source noted the "big guy" file was put on the computer AFTER the NY Post story broke.

Not all that hard to imagine something doesn't add up.

Keep yapping. An insider whistleblower Tony Bobulinski, who no one has claimed is lying, verified that “The Big Guy” reference was true. By the way. No White House denials, still.
I would think that since you always seemed to want to believe “whistleblowers” that were on your side against Trump, that you would also do the same thing here “in fairness”
Biden Indictment 2023 on the way. Lead witness? Tony Bobulinski et al.