Politics Thread

[X-band '01]

Is Arizona an open primary state? I honestly think a number of Democrats are just trying to get the most extremist Republicans nominated in the hopes of winning the general election. That's the kind of strategy that would likely work in a state like Pennsylvania (see Josh Shapiro and John Fetterman) but could backfire badly in a state like Arizona.

[bobbiemcgee]

"Arizona state law provides for semi-closed primaries, meaning that a voter generally must be registered as a party member in order to participate in that party's primary. A previously unaffiliated voter can participate in the primary of his or her choice."

[Masterofreality]

Didn't know he was a racist. Just another reason not to elect.

Amazing how a alleged Xavier educated man cannot comprehend simple statements.
BTW, by your side’s rules Black folks CAN’T be Racist.

[paulxu]

Economy adds over 500K jobs.
Unemployment at 3.46% (lowest rate in 50 years)
Under employed at lowest rate ever recorded.

Just thought a little good news might help.

[GoMuskies]

It is good news....kind of. As long as GDP is contracting, it's unsustainable and will kill real wages. But lower real wages>>>>>>>>>>being unemployed.

[UCGRAD4X]

Economy adds over 500K jobs.
Unemployment at 3.46% (lowest rate in 50 years)
Under employed at lowest rate ever recorded.

Just thought a little good news might help.

With the tremendous number of people leaving the workforce in prior years, are these really new jobs or just jobs finally returning? Is the low % a result of fewer looking to get back to work after leaving?

[bobbiemcgee]

Amazing how a alleged Xavier educated man cannot comprehend simple statements.
BTW, by your side’s rules Black folks CAN’T be Racist.

Racism refers to any discrimination by people of one race against another. Simple statement.

[paulxu]

With the tremendous number of people leaving the workforce in prior years, are these really new jobs or just jobs finally returning? Is the low % a result of fewer looking to get back to work after leaving?

I think it's primarily returning to the employment numbers from before. But the underemployed number includes people out of work for all the reasons, so that's positive.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Racism refers to any discrimination by people of one race against another. Simple statement.

There are absolutely people on the far left (and I even know some on the not so far left) that believe that black people cannot be racist. Something to do with power structure. There are also those who believe every white person is racists by nature. I have a cousin who is pretty far left who is white herself and engaged to a black man who would tell you she is inherently racist because she is white.

[GoMuskies]

Racism refers to any discrimination by people of one race against another. Simple statement.

In 2022? What are you, a fascist?

[bobbiemcgee]

In 2022? What are you, a fascist?

no, think he lost the last election.

[Masterofreality]

“ The FBI has sounded the alarm about white supremacists and far-right extremists, but the bureau’s own Top 10 “most wanted domestic terrorists” list includes at least two Communists, three black nationalists, one anti-war activist, and a vegan eco-terrorist.

While the diverse roster doesn’t purport to capture the breadth of domestic terror, it seems at odds with federal law enforcement’s claims that white supremacists pose the biggest threat facing the nation. Some skeptics are accusing the bureau of exaggerating the threat by adopting a misleading definition of such ideologies”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/leftists-dominate-fbi-top-10-domestic-terror-list-despite-warnings-about-far-right

[Masterofreality]

Economy adds over 500K jobs.
Unemployment at 3.46% (lowest rate in 50 years)
Under employed at lowest rate ever recorded.

Just thought a little good news might help.

It only took Biden 18 months to restore the employment level to it’s pre-pandemic number…..which was under TRUMP!!
Let’s Go Brandon!!

[Caf]

It is good news....kind of. As long as GDP is contracting, it's unsustainable and will kill real wages. But lower real wages>>>>>>>>>>being unemployed.

Yup, all the jobs news means is the Fed will need to be more aggressive with interest rates. We're not getting out of this rut for awhile. It's just a matter of what mix of inflation or rate hikes will kill growth and inflation. Something tells me it's going to be the one which hurts capital less...

And to UCGRAD4X's point, labor participation is still 1% under pre-pandemic.

[bobbiemcgee]

It ONLY took Biden 18 months to restore the employment level to it’s pre-pandemic number…..which was under TRUMP!!
Let’s Go Brandon!!

Yep. Biden having a good week. trump said they were "phony numbers".

[bobbiemcgee]

Paid 3.45 for gas this a.m. @ Costco - 5% cashback on cc = 3.27

lowest In CO is $3.04

https://kdvr.com/news/local/gas-prices-dropped-again-fill-up-at-4-places-for-under-3-10-per-gallon/

[Masterofreality]

Yep. Biden having a good week. trump said they were "phony numbers".

All I know is that Biden has “created” zero. Only “replaced”. And it took his garbage Econ policies a a year and a half to do that.
Plus the labor participation rate is still 1% below pre pandemic as pointed by Caf & UCGrad.
All those inflationary “stimulus checks” that kept people out of the labor force sure did their job!!

[X-band '01]

“ The FBI has sounded the alarm about white supremacists and far-right extremists, but the bureau’s own Top 10 “most wanted domestic terrorists” list includes at least two Communists, three black nationalists, one anti-war activist, and a vegan eco-terrorist.

While the diverse roster doesn’t purport to capture the breadth of domestic terror, it seems at odds with federal law enforcement’s claims that white supremacists pose the biggest threat facing the nation. Some skeptics are accusing the bureau of exaggerating the threat by adopting a misleading definition of such ideologies”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/leftists-dominate-fbi-top-10-domestic-terror-list-despite-warnings-about-far-right

I thought they were just "peaceful protestors"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePyioRZNABc

[bobbiemcgee]

All I know is that Biden has “created” zero. Only “replaced”. And it took his garbage Econ policies a a year and a half to do that.
Plus the labor participation rate is still 1% below pre pandemic as pointed by Caf & UCGrad.

It was 60.2 in March 2020, now 62.1

[Masterofreality]

It was 60.2 in March 2020, now 62.1

March 2020 was 62.7, February, 2020 was 63.4 per the Fed. Liar

[bjf123]

I thought they were just "peaceful protestors"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePyioRZNABc

It’s Cleveland, so…….

https://youtu.be/yJMa20xXykI


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Caf]

All I know is that Biden has “created” zero. Only “replaced”. And it took his garbage Econ policies a a year and a half to do that.
Plus the labor participation rate is still 1% below pre pandemic as pointed by Caf & UCGrad.
All those inflationary “stimulus checks” that kept people out of the labor force sure did their job!!

I don’t think you’d be happy if we were all the way back to that state or beyond already. If we were back at prepandemic participation and unemployment inflation would be even worse. Recovery is a really tough thing to get right. You can go to fast and get inflation or too slow and risk losing the production capacity long term.

[noteggs]

I don’t think you’d be happy if we were all the way back to that state or beyond already. If we were back at prepandemic participation and unemployment inflation would be even worse. Recovery is a really tough thing to get right. You can go to fast and get inflation or too slow and risk losing the production capacity long term.

Since I respect your handle on the economic front, wanted to pick your brain and get some thoughts. With all the assumed new spending the last couple of weeks (close to 2T with the chips, burn pit, and a gutted BBB bill), how can this possibly decrease inflation in the short term? Not here to discuss merits of bills, but economic effects of doing so. Also, despite who you talk to on the definition of a recession, is now a good time to raise taxes on anyone?

[Masterofreality]

I don’t think you’d be happy if we were all the way back to that state or beyond already. If we were back at prepandemic participation and unemployment inflation would be even worse. Recovery is a really tough thing to get right. You can go to fast and get inflation or too slow and risk losing the production capacity long term.

I respect your statement.
But: A. Didn’t sending “Stimulus Checks” to uneeeded population in unneeded amounts juice demand and disincentivize labor thereby setting off inflation?
B. Didn’t Printing massive amounts of money from the Fed with nothing to back it up also incite inflation?
C. Didn’t the war on fossil fuels “Fuel” the inflationary state by making EVERYTHING more expensive regardless of labor?
Maybe if neither of those things happened, the labor participation rate would be just fine more quickly?

[XU_Lou]

I respect your statement.
But: A. Didn’t sending “Stimulus Checks” to uneeeded population in unneeded amounts juice demand and disincentivize labor thereby setting off inflation?
B. Didn’t Printing massive amounts of money from the Fed with nothing to back it up also incite inflation?
C. Didn’t the war on fossil fuels “Fuel” the inflationary state by making EVERYTHING more expensive regardless of labor?
Maybe if neither of those things happened, the labor participation rate would be just fine more quickly?


A) Spot on
B) Spot on
C) Spot on

[Caf]

Since I respect your handle on the economic front, wanted to pick your brain and get some thoughts. With all the assumed new spending the last couple of weeks (close to 2T with the chips, burn pit, and a gutted BBB bill), how can this possibly decrease inflation in the short term? Not here to discuss merits of bills, but economic effects of doing so. Also, despite who you talk to on the definition of a recession, is now a good time to raise taxes on anyone?

It wonÂ’t tamp down inflation in the short term, just the opposite, but it will theoretically increase growth. Chips could maybe help lower inflation long term but American labor is more costly, so probably not. The supply chain argument is weak, even if Nance made it stronger. IÂ’d personally like to see technology capability encouraged/protected like the automotive industry has been. It has strategic and security importance long term.

I would have liked to have seen the carried interest loop closed but thatÂ’s all. ThereÂ’s an economic case to be made but you wonÂ’t hear it from me

[Caf]

I respect your statement.
But: A. Didn’t sending “Stimulus Checks” to uneeeded population in unneeded amounts juice demand and disincentivize labor thereby setting off inflation?
B. Didn’t Printing massive amounts of money from the Fed with nothing to back it up also incite inflation?
C. Didn’t the war on fossil fuels “Fuel” the inflationary state by making EVERYTHING more expensive regardless of labor?
Maybe if neither of those things happened, the labor participation rate would be just fine more quickly?

Hindsight is 2020. No pun intended. It was definitely too much but again undershooting it has its own set of terrible problems. 100% with you on C. The private investing obsession with ESG also deserves credit.

It’s also worth noting we’ve been causing inflation in risk assets with reckless abandon to the benefit of capital for 14 years. Labor and the people get benefit from it for the first time in that period, like 4% versus hundreds of %, and now it’s way too far.

[bobbiemcgee]

March 2020 was 62.7, February, 2020 was 63.4 per the Fed. Liar

April 2020 was 60.2, may have missed it by a month altho many say march, go read the graph dummy;

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

[X-band '01]

I respect your statement.
But: A. Didn’t sending “Stimulus Checks” to uneeeded population in unneeded amounts juice demand and disincentivize labor thereby setting off inflation?
B. Didn’t Printing massive amounts of money from the Fed with nothing to back it up also incite inflation?
C. Didn’t the war on fossil fuels “Fuel” the inflationary state by making EVERYTHING more expensive regardless of labor?
Maybe if neither of those things happened, the labor participation rate would be just fine more quickly?

I don't dispute that sending large stimulus checks to the country helped contribute to inflation (along with extended unemployment to those who needed it), but it may have been the lesser of two evils. Would you have rather had a full-scale depression with people not getting paid while unable to work while governments were trying to figure out how to get back to normal?

I was fortunate in a sense that I started a second job at Amazon right before the pandemic exploded. Once people were isolated and quarantined, that was a business that exploded in volume for a few months. It's obviously leveled off, and I quit that second job back in April. At least I got some extra money out of that and part of the reward is being able to get back in the season ticket club with you lads.

[Masterofreality]

April 2020 was 60.2, may have missed it by a month altho many say march, go read the graph dummy;

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

I read the graph liar. And that’s why you’re a liar
And I was in New York in March 2020 during which the official. Pandemic Panic officially started.

[bobbiemcgee]

Mar/apr 62.7 Jul 2022 62.1 bone up on your reading comprehension. Gesuz, no wonder we have a problem on the right with lying. One of your no good bastard buddies just got fined 50 million.

Apparently your 'puter or your brain are on the fritz or both. And who gives a dump where you were in Mar.

[Caf]

Really bobbie? 63.4 in Feb. firmly pre pandemic. Why did the rate drop 0.7% between Feb and March if not the pandemic?

[bobbiemcgee]

My point was it is nearly back from the pandemic lows @ 62.1, the 1% you noted.

"From 2013 on, the monthly figures held steady in the vicinity of 63%, after a sharp decline in the wake of the Great Recession. However, in early 2020, the labor force participation rate fell markedly, dropping from 63.4% to 61.4% in the first half of the year, as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Its low point was reached in April 2020, when the rate sank to 60.2%.
_Investopia

[paulxu]

Ohio politics. Long but informative read. Doesn't seem like the Ohio legislature does what the majority of Ohioans would like it to do.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/state-legislatures-are-torching-democracy

[bjf123]

Ohio politics. Long but informative read. Doesn't seem like the Ohio legislature does what the majority of Ohioans would like it to do.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/state-legislatures-are-torching-democracy

I think you could say that about most state legislatures, left or right. They all pander to the extremes of their party, ignoring the fact that most people are much closer to the middle, conservative on some items and liberal on others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

I think you could say that about most state legislatures, left or right. They all pander to the extremes of their party, ignoring the fact that most people are much closer to the middle, conservative on some items and liberal on others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, I'm living in one of the most conservative ones here in South Carolina.
What was fascinating were the efforts by Ohioans to reverse some of the effects of the extremes in gerrymandering.
1 - They passed an amendment to their constitution for districts to be more representative
2 - They took the new, bad maps to court and their own Supreme Court rejected 5 efforts that were still didn't meet the test

They ran out the clock so ended up with the bad maps from a Federal court intervention, but there is some hope for the future.

[GoMuskies]

This Cale Gundy resignation from Oklahoma is the weirdest shit ever.

[STL_XUfan]

This Cale Gundy resignation from Oklahoma is the weirdest shit ever.

Negative recruiting is a real thing.

If his side of the story is true, and I haven't heard anything to say it isn't, an apology to the players involved should be sufficient. However, his name doesn't carry enough weight to make up for the baggage that will get associated to the program by the other schools using this incident to negatively recruit.

[GoMuskies]

I guess. Weird world when a kid might actually count it against a school that an assistant coach read the word "[Voldemort]" off a kid's iPad.

[Smails]

This Cale Gundy resignation from Oklahoma is the weirdest shit ever.

Yeah..I don't buy it. Apparently the team held a vote and were unanimous in wanting to keep him around. Sounds to me like he wasn't that interested in saving his job. Very odd situation

[STL_XUfan]

I guess. Weird world when a kid might actually count it against a school that an assistant coach read the word "[Voldemort]" off a kid's iPad.

That isn't how Texas, Alabama, OSU and the likes are going to spin it.

The first I saw of this story was his resignation. I did some googling and I couldn't even find anyone initially reporting it or any sort of groups calling for his firing. Was there any outcry, or was this decision made before the story even got out?

[paulxu]

Maybe you shouldn't take boxes of classified documents with you to Florida when you leave the WH. Just a thought.

[bobbiemcgee]

Embarrassing for a ex US President and the Nation.

[Caf]

Time is a flat circle. Sounds like we're in for the 'Clinton emails' 2.0. I'm curious if the timing of this has to do with this story: Exclusive photos: Trump's telltale toilet - Axios (https://www.axios.com/2022/08/08/trump-toilet-photos-maggie-haberman) Hopefully not

[UCGRAD4X]

Time is a flat circle. Sounds like we're in for the 'Clinton emails' 2.0. I'm curious if the timing of this has to do with this story: Exclusive photos: Trump's telltale toilet - Axios (https://www.axios.com/2022/08/08/trump-toilet-photos-maggie-haberman) Hopefully not

At one point it is referred to as a document dump!

[Masterofreality]

Ohio politics. Long but informative read. Doesn't seem like the Ohio legislature does what the majority of Ohioans would like it to do.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/state-legislatures-are-torching-democracy

See? If the elected officials don’t do what the majority of people want, they can vote them out in those things called ELECTIONS! The Legislature was voted in by the People in a majority basis. Too bad a left wing publication like the New Yorker doesn’t like it and create a narrative about “gerrymandering”.
Ha! The most “gerrymandered” district is the one I live in BY THE DEMOCRATS!. It stretches all the way from Toledo- 100 miles away- through Lakewood to make it sure that a Dem like Marcy Kaptur- from TOLEDO- is my rep in a west side Cleveland town.
We have a Democratic Republic, which is what we have and working. We also have a very effective Republican Governor and Legislature who will be re-elected by large margins. Leave us alone New Yorker. You have your own raft of problems- including Democrat gerrymandering.
I guess Paul would rather have the People ruled by Court Fiat and not the Electoral system set up by the Constitution.

[Masterofreality]

Well, I'm living in one of the most conservative ones here in South Carolina.
What was fascinating were the efforts by Ohioans to reverse some of the effects of the extremes in gerrymandering.
1 - They passed an amendment to their constitution for districts to be more representative
2 - They took the new, bad maps to court and their own Supreme Court rejected 5 efforts that were still didn't meet the test

They ran out the clock so ended up with the bad maps from a Federal court intervention, but there is some hope for the future.

Actually they are good maps.
Again. Democracy is not ruled by Judicial Fiat, or shouldn’t be.
So, the GOOD MAPS stand despite Dems trying once again to have a court do their work for them.

[paulxu]

It stretches all the way from Toledo- 100 miles away- through Lakewood to make it sure that a Dem like Marcy Kaptur- from TOLEDO- is my rep in a west side Cleveland town.


Due to redistricting by the Republican-controlled state legislature following the 2010 state elections, the 9th district absorbed part of western Cuyahoga County[3] pitting 10th district Democratic incumbent Dennis Kucinich against Kaptur in the 2012 Democratic primary

Talk to your Republican buddies in the state house.

[xuphan]

Political maps drawn by politicians. What ever could go wrong?

[Masterofreality]

Talk to your Republican buddies in the state house.

So basically preserving a safe Dem district after Ohio lost a seat. Isn’t that what you want?
If you don’t like it, get better Dem candidates who don’t want to brainwash kids, want to lower taxes and inflation and don’t hate America.
Pretty simple there, Sir.

[paulxu]

I find it hard to imagine republicans preserving a democratic seat.

That wouldn't happen in South Carolina...maybe in Ohio.

Or maybe it was to pit Kucinich against Kaptur. Didn't the 10th use to have part of Cleveland, and now is down in mid-Ohio with Dayton?

[Masterofreality]

I find it hard to imagine republicans preserving a democratic seat.

That wouldn't happen in South Carolina...maybe in Ohio.

Or maybe it was to pit Kucinich against Kaptur. Didn't the 10th use to have part of Cleveland, and now is down in mid-Ohio with Dayton?

With your one sided outlook, you seem to have a hard time imagining anything balanced. Oh, well…

[bobbiemcgee]

With your one sided outlook, you seem to have a hard time imagining anything balanced. Oh, well…

Y'know you talk about balance. I went to the Rockies game last night. They won 16-5. I stayed until the end watching every pitch. Let's say later at the bar, a group of Cardinal fans were insisting the Cardinals won. I say "No" I watched every one of the Rockies 22 hits to win. Maybe I missed the Umpires declaring victory for the Redbirds.
Such a scenario is now playing out in America. Half a political party is denying the obvious outcome of an election in 7 states. Yes, it sounds ridiculous but true and now we have these idiots who may get elected and throw the games in their favor. Absurd.

[STL_XUfan]

Y'know you talk about balance. I went to the Rockies game last night. They won 16-5. I stayed until the end watching every pitch. Let's say later at the bar, a group of Cardinal fans were insisting the Cardinals won. I say "No" I watched every one of the Rockies 22 hits to win. Maybe I missed the Umpires declaring victory for the Redbirds.
Such a scenario is now playing out in America. Half a political party is denying the obvious outcome of an election in 7 states. Yes, it sounds ridiculous but true and now we have these idiots who may get elected and throw the games in their favor. Absurd.

I am happy to hear the Cardinals pulled it out. I turned it off around the 5th.

[bobbiemcgee]

"If your innocent, why would you take the fifth, only the Mob takes the fifth". Trump took the fifth this morning. Hypocrite.

[Masterofreality]

Small overlooked fact:
The same night Mar-a-Lago was raided, DHS quietly announced it will end Remain in Mexico. This decision, like the rest of Biden's open border approach, is a disaster, elite cruelty—to migrants & our own working class—masquerading as compassion.
Oh, and when Texas decides to bus load migrants to “Sanctuary Cities”, those “Sanctuary Cities” doth protest and don’t want them there! Sanctuary in word only.
Yeah. “We’re all for the Sanctuary of migrants until those migrants need Sanctuary. TEXAS should be willing to handle all of them!!
(This despite the fact that Federal Government Fuckery is allowing them to stream in)
I think Abbot is a genius doing this. Sending a Federal caused problem into a Federal District and another “Sanctuary” place.
The ultimate example of hypocrisy! “Yeah we’re all for them…..uhhh… but not in OUR backyard Sanctuary”.

[94GRAD]

This might be just me, but can people please stop saying Mar-A-Lago was raided. Raids happen first thing in the morning, without warning, and they bust the door down. The FBI let the Secret Service know ahead of time they were coming and were let in.

[Masterofreality]

The IRS is hiring new special agents!

Requirements include working min “50 hours per week, which may include irregular hours, and be on-call 24/7, including holidays and weekends” and “Carry a firearm and be willing to use deadly force, if necessary.”

Sounds an awful lot like Gestapo resurrected!!! Yay Freedom!!
By the way. There are 1,000 billionaires in the US. Why would it take 87,000 new IRS agents to police them?

[paulxu]

Up until this year, from 2010 on, the IRS lost 1/3rd of its enforcement staff, and is still using antiquated computer programing.
They need a lot of money to catch up.
Estimates of lost taxes due to lack of enforcement are at $600 billion/year. That might just pay for the agents.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093380881/on-tax-day-the-treasury-department-urges-for-more-funding-to-the-irs

[UCGRAD4X]

The IRS is hiring new special agents!

Requirements include working min “50 hours per week, which may include irregular hours, and be on-call 24/7, including holidays and weekends” and “Carry a firearm and be willing to use deadly force, if necessary.”

Sounds an awful lot like Gestapo resurrected!!! Yay Freedom!!
By the way. There are 1,000 billionaires in the US. Why would it take 87,000 new IRS agents to police them?

So Biden can say he created 87,000 new jobs.

[Masterofreality]

Up until this year, from 2010 on, the IRS lost 1/3rd of its enforcement staff, and is still using antiquated computer programing.
They need a lot of money to catch up.
Estimates of lost taxes due to lack of enforcement are at $600 billion/year. That might just pay for the agents.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093380881/on-tax-day-the-treasury-department-urges-for-more-funding-to-the-irs

*Maybe pay for the new agents…but what of this alleged “Deficit Reduction” if it only pays for the agents. Hahahaha. BS.
Which, with 87k new agents, that means that “Average Joe”, making $100k or less a year will be targeted as much as Mr. Billionaire- of which there are only 1,000 in the country.
But yeah, Dems. Make sure that you protect the Private Equity carry forward interest Big Money guys!!! Well done.

[bjf123]

The IRS is hiring new special agents.

Many many years ago, I was at a seminar about tax law. One of the speakers was a CPA and tax attorney. He said if an IRS special agent ever shows up at an audit, call your attorney immediately and shut up. Special agents are only there for serious, criminal, tax investigations that could lead to jail time. If it’s a revenue agent, it could just be a randomly selected audit and you could let your CPA handle it.

[paulxu]

*Maybe pay for the new agents…but what of this alleged “Deficit Reduction” if it only pays for the agents. Hahahaha. BS.
Which, with 87k new agents, that means that “Average Joe”, making $100k or less a year will be targeted as much as Mr. Billionaire- of which there are only 1,000 in the country.
But yeah, Dems. Make sure that you protect the Private Equity carry forward interest Big Money guys!!! Well done.

Facts, stubborn facts:


"This means that, contrary to the misinformation from opponents of this legislation, small business or households earning $400,000 per year or less will not see an increase in the chances that they are audited."
Enforcement resources, Yellen said, will instead "focus on high-end noncompliance."


Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, claim the new funding will create 87,000 new IRS agents. But that number is misleading. Treasury did estimate in 2021 that a nearly $80 billion investment in the IRS could allow the agency to hire 86,852 full-time employees over the course of a decade. But that figure accounts for all workers, not solely enforcement agents. Rettig also told lawmakers that the IRS would need to hire 52,000 people over the next six years just to maintain current staffing level to replace those who retire or otherwise leave.

[X-band '01]

Many many years ago, I was at a seminar about tax law. One of the speakers was a CPA and tax attorney. He said if an IRS special agent ever shows up at an audit, call your attorney immediately and shut up. Special agents are only there for serious, criminal, tax investigations that could lead to jail time. If it’s a revenue agent, it could just be a randomly selected audit and you could let your CPA handle it.

I'd tend to think that certain types of income are more likely to be audited (or "examined" as the IRS would officially call it) than others.

If you're not reporting income that shows up on a W-2 or 1099, for example (i.e. rental income), that's a potential audit trigger. Amending tax returns with a big difference in reported income from the original return will also raise flags with the IRS.

[Smails]

I can't fathom the lunacy of thinking that adding 87,000 new tax collectors is a good idea. Novel idea: How about hiring 50,000 border agents to stem the flow of illegal, lethal fentanyl that literally kills over 100,000 Americans every year.

[Xville]

I can't fathom the lunacy of thinking that adding 87,000 new tax collectors is a good idea. Novel idea: How about hiring 50,000 border agents to stem the flow of illegal, lethal fentanyl that literally kills over 100,000 Americans every year.

Here’s my feeeligs on that…. You know you could just not ingest the fentanyl? That’s still possible, right? Sorry but if people are choosing to put fentanyl in their body, that’s their problem and I don’t think dollars should be spent on keeping that from coming in. Call me crazy, but i think money should be spent on the reasons for why people think it’s a good idea to out fentanyl in their body. In other words—-we have to do more in terms of mental health, outreach etc in this country. Stop putting bandaids on shit.

[Masterofreality]

Facts, stubborn facts:

“Facts” from where? The Dems said there would be 87,000 new agents. The hiring will be accelerated to again , fake signal that they can magically create revenue to allegedly pay for this legislative boondoggle.
Rather than posting screenshots, how about citing where these “articles” come from with links.
Stop the disingenuous cherry picking.
There will be little “high end noncompliance”. Know why? Because high end million. & Billionaires have tax accountants & lawyers to make sure that everything is within the law. You’ve been duped by your liars again.
And yeah. Biden is lying again. Get your tax accountant ready Paul. The list comes for all.

Oh, and:

Just 12 Percent of Americans Believe That the Inflation Reduction Act Will Reduce Inflation

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/just-12-percent-of-americans-believe-that-the-inflation-reduction-act-will-reduce-inflation/

[bobbiemcgee]

The 87k is over 10 years. For each dollar of additional spending on enforcement, the IRS estimates that it collects an average of $5 of revenue.

[paulxu]

“Facts” from where?
Rather than posting screenshots, how about citing where these “articles” come from with links.
Stop the disingenuous cherry picking.

I assumed you knew who Janet Yellen is in my first quote. My bad. She's the United States Secretary of the Treasury.

Here's some backup from the Fiscal Times regarding the agents and who they will be auditing.

https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/newsletter/20220810-IRS-Coming-Middle-Class-Taxpayers

[Smails]

Here’s my feeeligs on that…. You know you could just not ingest the fentanyl? That’s still possible, right? Sorry but if people are choosing to put fentanyl in their body, that’s their problem and I don’t think dollars should be spent on keeping that from coming in. Call me crazy, but i think money should be spent on the reasons for why people think it’s a good idea to out fentanyl in their body. In other words—-we have to do more in terms of mental health, outreach etc in this country. Stop putting bandaids on shit.

Let's just make it legal and tell people not to take it..problem solved. You know most fentanyl overdoses are accidental, right? Remember the opioid crisis that was spinning our of control 10 years ago? Well, the US government took steps to mitigate the flooding of the market by going after the pharma companies and it worked. It's quite possible to attack the supply lines and offer outreach at the same time. My feelings are that I would rather send more support to our southern border than hire 80,000+ tax collectors.. To each their own.

[Masterofreality]

I assumed you knew who Janet Yellen is in my first quote. My bad. She's the United States Secretary of the Treasury.

Here's some backup from the Fiscal Times regarding the agents and who they will be auditing.

https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/newsletter/20220810-IRS-Coming-Middle-Class-Taxpayers

Janet Yellen is a partisan hack who called Inflation “Transitory”. Forgive me if I have zero confidence in anything she has to say. Our economy is in such SUPERB SHAPE NOW! But hitch your wagon to someone who is correct about things as often as Paul Krugman.

[XU_Lou]

Speaking of zero - didn't Biden just tell us yesterday that "inflation was at zero"?

That's really strange, so why does he feel the need to pass the "Inflation Reduction Act"?

[bjf123]

If Bari Weiss’s comments are correct, the NYT should rebrand themselves the Democrat Party Times. I know some will immediately discount this because it’s being reported by Fox News. They’re simply reporting what Bari said in her podcast.

In a nutshell, the Times was considering running an Op-Ed by Senator Tim Scott, a black Republican. A senior staffer at the Times suggested they run it by Senator Schumer before publication. WTF? That apparently did not happen, but the Op-Ed never ran.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ny-times-staffer-wanted-check-schumer-before-running-sen-tim-scott-op-ed-bari-weiss-says


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[Masterofreality]

If Bari Weiss’s comments are correct, the NYT should rebrand themselves the Democrat Party Times. I know some will immediately discount this because it’s being reported by Fox News. They’re simply reporting what Bari said in her podcast.

In a nutshell, the Times was considering running an Op-Ed by Senator Tim Scott, a black Republican. A senior staffer at the Times suggested they run it by Senator Schumer before publication. WTF? That apparently did not happen, but the Op-Ed never ran.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ny-times-staffer-wanted-check-schumer-before-running-sen-tim-scott-op-ed-bari-weiss-says


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which is exactly why the Liberal but ultra fair Journalist Bari Weiss resigned from her Editor position at the New York Times.

[bobbiemcgee]

If Bari Weiss’s comments are correct, the NYT should rebrand themselves the Democrat Party Times. I know some will immediately discount this because it’s being reported by Fox News. They’re simply reporting what Bari said in her podcast.

In a nutshell, the Times was considering running an Op-Ed by Senator Tim Scott, a black Republican. A senior staffer at the Times suggested they run it by Senator Schumer before publication. WTF? That apparently did not happen, but the Op-Ed never ran.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ny-times-staffer-wanted-check-schumer-before-running-sen-tim-scott-op-ed-bari-weiss-says


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NYT said it never happened.

[X-band '01]

Thank Gawd for Joe Manchin who saved even more inflation. Even the last stimulus plan was too big because it contained $375 million to state & local governments to bail them out.

This. And now the Inflation Reduction Act will become law with Joe Biden's signature.

[bjf123]

NYT said it never happened.

What do you expect them to say? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

This. And now the Inflation Reduction Act will become law with Joe Biden's signature.

The “Inflation Reduction Act” that almost all economists say will do nothing to stem inflation.
Even the press knows it. Almost every story is calling it a “Climate & Healthcare” Bill.
The lying and misrepresentations of this Adminstration are astounding.
Two quarters of negative growth aren’t a Recession anymore, huh?

[bjf123]

The “Inflation Reduction Act” that almost all economists say will do nothing to stem inflation.
Even the press knows it. Almost every story is calling it a “Climate & Healthcare” Bill.
The lying and misrepresentations of this Adminstration are astounding.
Two quarters of negative growth aren’t a Recession anymore, huh?

I’m sure if everything was the same right now except Trump, or any Republican, was in office, the lead story from every MSM outlet would be how bad the recession is.


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[Masterofreality]

The “Inflation Reduction Act” does not cause a “Reduction of Inflation”, per Wharton Business School.
Joe BLiar-den.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-may-not-lower-inflation-penn-wharton/

[paulxu]

That seems like a good indicator of what might happen, the Penn Wharton Budget Model.
They do note that:


But the impact on inflation "is statistically indistinguishable from zero," the Penn Wharton Budget Model said on Friday.

Buried in the bill is a provision almost 20 years overdue. The Part D drug plan was passed in 2003, but Republicans prevented Medicare from negotiating with drug companies on drug pricing. Insurance companies could, but not the government.Tthat was finally changed.

The Wharton model has a good track record; they noted about the latest trickle down attempt passed in 2017:


Put simply, the model’s analysis finds that not only will the Senate tax plan not pay for itself, but it will add more than $1 trillion to the nation’s deficit in the next ten years.

They were right about that.

[Masterofreality]

That seems like a good indicator of what might happen, the Penn Wharton Budget Model.
They do note that:



Buried in the bill is a provision almost 20 years overdue. The Part D drug plan was passed in 2003, but Republicans prevented Medicare from negotiating with drug companies on drug pricing. Insurance companies could, but not the government.Tthat was finally changed.

The Wharton model has a good track record; they noted about the latest trickle down attempt passed in 2017:



They were right about that.

There is zero guarantee that having the GOVERNMENT negotiate drug prices that it will bring them down. In fact some analysts say that this may actually increase either the prices for some drugs or medical insurance premiums.
On the 2017 tax bill. So. Since it is so terrible Paul, and since YOUR side is in total control of all 3 legislative and executive branches,
How come that there has been no legislation proposed to change that 2017 bill? Huh?
Know why? Because it caused great economic growth, is popular, and is electoral suicide to change it. “Trickle Down” Economic Growth indeed!
You need to really improve your responses.

[bjf123]

Anyone care to guess what will happen when the government negotiates lower drug prices for Medicare? The drug companies aren’t going to simply accept lower selling prices on a boatload of sales and the related hit to earnings per share. They’ll make up the revenue somehow. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the prices everyone else pays will go up.


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[bobbiemcgee]

Seems simple to me. Medicare pays the same as VA pays, not double or triple.

[paulxu]

There is zero guarantee that having the GOVERNMENT negotiate drug prices that it will bring them down. In fact some analysts say that this may actually increase either the prices for some drugs or medical insurance premiums.
On the 2017 tax bill. So. Since it is so terrible Paul, and since YOUR side is in total control of all 3 legislative and executive branches,
How come that there has been no legislation proposed to change that 2017 bill? Huh?
Know why? Because it caused great economic growth, is popular, and is electoral suicide to change it. “Trickle Down” Economic Growth indeed!
You need to really improve your responses.

Perhaps you should read the Penn Wharton budget analysis on the bill just passed, that you provided?

Trying to claw back some of the give away to the super high income groups.


Most, but not all, of the tax increases fall on higher income households. However, future generations, including higher-income households, gain from the improved economy, including a reduction in carbon emissions.


https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/8/12/senate-passed-inflation-reduction-act

[bobbiemcgee]

Know why? Because it caused great economic growth, is popular, and is electoral suicide to change it. “Trickle Down” Economic Growth indeed!
You need to really improve your responses.

Wrong as usual

https://www.thebalance.com/cost-of-trump-tax-cuts-4586645

[Strange Brew]

Perhaps you should read the Penn Wharton budget analysis on the bill just passed, that you provided?

Trying to claw back some of the give away to the super high income groups.


https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/8/12/senate-passed-inflation-reduction-act

They included reduced carbon emissions as an economic benefit? Seems like a soft analysis if so.

[Strange Brew]

Wrong as usual

https://www.thebalance.com/cost-of-trump-tax-cuts-4586645

Tax cuts are not a “cost”. Erroneous far Left way of thinking.

[bobbiemcgee]

Tax cuts are not a “cost”. Erroneous far Left way of thinking.

Rated "least biased" but then it won't make any difference to you, everybody's a leftist.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-balance/

"Overall, we rate The Balance Least Biased based on minimal use of loaded language and balanced reporting of financial news. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to excellent sourcing and a clean fact check record".

[Caf]

Anyone care to guess what will happen when the government negotiates lower drug prices for Medicare? The drug companies aren’t going to simply accept lower selling prices on a boatload of sales and the related hit to earnings per share. They’ll make up the revenue somehow. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the prices everyone else pays will go up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or worse they'll lower their costs aka research and development into cures for diseases or maybe even quality ~yeesh~. I know this doesn't fit into some of your narratives, if you were reasonable it would, the US pharmaceutical environment and industry have saved millions of lives from the covid vaccine development alone. Changing anything about it is a dangerous game, and we're doing it when their impact is as plain to see as ever. There's definitely not enough talk about the 95% excise tax buried in this bill.

Funny you mention everyone else's costs would go up as well, that's what Trump wanted to do, peg our costs to other countries'. Those countries are able to negotiate more aggressively as they know we'll bankroll the companies so they don't have to own the consequences of restricting their revenue.

[Strange Brew]

Rated "least biased" but then it won't make any difference to you, everybody's a leftist.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-balance/

"Overall, we rate The Balance Least Biased based on minimal use of loaded language and balanced reporting of financial news. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to excellent sourcing and a clean fact check record".

Tax cuts aren't "costs" regardless of source.

[noteggs]

Or worse they'll lower their costs aka research and development into cures for diseases or maybe even quality ~yeesh~. I know this doesn't fit into some of your narratives, if you were reasonable it would, the US pharmaceutical environment and industry have saved millions of lives from the covid vaccine development alone. Changing anything about it is a dangerous game, and we're doing it when their impact is as plain to see as ever. There's definitely not enough talk about the 95% excise tax buried in this bill.

Funny you mention everyone else's costs would go up as well, that's what Trump wanted to do, peg our costs to other countries'. Those countries are able to negotiate more aggressively as they know we'll bankroll the companies so they don't have to own the consequences of restricting their revenue.

This is pretty much spot on.

What I don’t get is why people think Medicare/federal government doesn’t already directly negotiate with drug companies because it has happened for years. One example, a little over a decade ago Medicare asked pharma if they wanted their branded drugs covered. Of course they did, so Medicare made pharma pay a percentage of the patients donut hole. Today, pharma covers 75% of that coverage.

A very simple solution to lowering branded drug cost for Medicare patients would be to allow them to use co-pay cards. Unfortunately, the feds look at this as a bribe to stay on that particular medication. So much for allowing the patient and their doctor making the decisions.

[paulxu]

I think people believe the government couldn't negotiate drug pricing for seniors, is because it was in the original bill:


In 2003, the Bush administration passed Medicare prescription drug benefits, but prohibited the government from negotiating the price of medications for seniors.

https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/1748/Medicare-Drug-Price-Negotiation-Plan-Continues-to?searchresult=1

I think that has been the case from then until now; but stand to be corrected if I missed where they were allowed to negotiate.

[XU 23]

https://justthenews.com/nation/crime/major-us-cities-capita-murder-rate-outpaces-ukraines-recorded-civilian-death-rate

Murder rates per capita in Chicago, St. Louis, and Baltimore are now higher than the civilian death rate in Ukraine. Why does the media not report this?

[bjf123]

I’m not sure why they think this will survive a court challenge, which is probably already being prepared.

https://news.yahoo.com/minneapolis-teachers-outraged-union-contract-144509410.html


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[paulxu]

Looks like Weisselberg, like a good consigliere, will be falling on his sword.

I'm guessing his family will be taken care of, as he's not "cooperating."

[XU_Lou]

"Mice die in mouse traps because they don't understand why the cheese is free.

The same thing happens with socialism."

[noteggs]

I think people believe the government couldn't negotiate drug pricing for seniors, is because it was in the original bill:



https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/1748/Medicare-Drug-Price-Negotiation-Plan-Continues-to?searchresult=1

I think that has been the case from then until now; but stand to be corrected if I missed where they were allowed to negotiate.

Assume you didn’t see my example or are you just messing with me? Is this not a negotiation for the cost of drugs? Again the government and pharma negotiated the out of pocket costs for drugs in return for access to sell their branded drugs. Think this started around 2013ish?

This is the same type of negotiations pharma has been doing with private insurers for decades. Insurers ask for discounts from pharma in return to put their drug on formulary (access).

This negotiation was made in good faith for two reasons. 1) The donut hole was the most expensive part the the patients Medicare PDP (see attached on how the donut hole works) and lowers it by 75%. 2) so the government would not do cost control on drugs overall. Big difference between controlling and negotiating.

If this not an example of negotiating the price of drugs, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

https://www.medicare.gov/drug-coverage-part-d/costs-for-medicare-drug-coverage/costs-in-the-coverage-gap

[paulxu]

I guess this is more my idea of "negotiating."


In our sample of 399 brand-name and generic prescription drugs, the VA paid an average of 54% less per unit than Medicare, even after taking into account rebates and discounts.

The programs pay for drugs differently. Medicare reimburses the Part D plan sponsors to pay pharmacies, but the VA buys drugs directly from manufacturers. The VA may be able to get lower prices because it can:

Negotiate as a single health system with a unified list of covered drugs

Use discounts defined by law that Medicare doesn't have

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-111


Federal law allows the government to negotiate Medicare drug prices only for veterans and Medicaid beneficiaries. Specifically, the 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act (MMA)(P.L. 108-173) noninterference provision prohibits the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) from negotiating Medicare drug prices or establishing a preferred drug list.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2016/rpt/2016-R-0245.htm

Maybe if they had real negotiating, they would lower the Medicare Drug costs by 54% to be the same as the VA?

[bobbiemcgee]

Big Pharma has 1700 lobbyists, 3 for every member of Congress. They'll find a way to keep screwing us.

[Strange Brew]

Big Pharma has 1700 lobbyists, 3 for every member of Congress. They'll find a way to keep screwing us.

So do the Greens. You tend to focus on odd things.

[bobbiemcgee]

So do the Greens. You tend to focus on odd things.

Special interest groups are odd? If you say so.

[Strange Brew]

Special interest groups are odd? If you say so.

Agree. Not a fan of SIGs on both sides. You focus on very interesting things. Oil, Pharma, etc...

[XU_Lou]

“I was afraid they were going to set off an explosion on one of the side streets. So we tried to stay in the middle, tried to get there early, tried to stay away from the sides. And if something like that happened, I had a first-aid kit. I could help out.”

- Ray Epps, from an interview with the FBI


Who the hell is Ray Epps? More importantly, why isn't he in jail?


Ray Epps was seen in multiple video clips the day before and the day of the Jan 6 demonstrations trying to rally people to go into the Capitol. Shortly after those videos emerged, he was placed on the FBIs Most Wanted List. Strangely, his name disappeared from that list after a short time. Now we find out that he's admitting that he was apparently aware of the pipe bombs that were found near the Capitol. He should be one of the top suspects in this event, right? And yet the FBI has apparently let him slide. Why? Does he actually work for or with the FBI?


And what about those pipe bombs? There are five facts about the pipe bombs that are particularly strange:

1) The pipe bombs — according to the Capitol Police Chief Stephen Sund and Inspector General — were planted as a “diversion” to distract law enforcement shortly before 1 p.m., when the breach of the Capitol’s perimeter was just getting started. According to the official timeline, the breach started just one minute after Capitol Police were informed about the pipe bombs just two to three city blocks away.

2) The pipe bomber used an old-fashioned mechanical timer with a one hour max time setting, but planted the bombs at roughly 8 p.m. the night before January 6 — 17 hours before they were found.

3) The pipe bombs were constructed with no remote detonation ability, meaning their purpose as a diversion relied solely on the “luck” of being found at the right time, between noon and 1 p.m., to match the one-hour timer appearing to target the 1 p.m. Congressional certification vote.

4) The first pipe bomb was found at 12:40 p.m., with 20 minutes left on the timer, perfectly matching the exact timing needed both to “divert” police as the breach began at 12:50 p.m., and to convince police the bomb was timed to the 1 p.m. Congressional vote.

5) The timer didn’t just have 20 minutes left. It was left stuck on the 20 minute dial.


Where's the surveillance footage of the pipe bomber planting the DNC pipe bomb?


https://www.revolver.news/2022/08/jan-6-pipe-bombers-mechanical-timer-detonates-fedsurrection-lie/

[bobbiemcgee]

Liz loses to a lying election denier. Wonder how many votes she can steal from trump running as an independent?

[X-band '01]

If she goes independent, it'll be a chore for her just to get on the ballot in all 50 states. Doubt she'd consider herself Libertarian, but you never know.

[Strange Brew]

Liz loses to a lying election denier. Wonder how many votes she can steal from trump running as an independent?

None.

However, she may steal some from Biden if she runs as an I.

[Xuperman]

If she goes independent, it'll be a chore for her just to get on the ballot in all 50 states. Doubt she'd consider herself Libertarian, but you never know.

Maybe Yang's "Forward" party would come a callin'.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe Yang's "Forward" party would come a callin'.

Fuck no

[Caf]

So excited to see what Liz does next [Sarcasm font]! Not supporting Donald Trump, what an exciting vision for the future of the nation. How long will our political parties be defined by their opinion of DJT? It's clearly what will define this election.

[noteggs]

I guess this is more my idea of "negotiating."



https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-111



https://www.cga.ct.gov/2016/rpt/2016-R-0245.htm

Maybe if they had real negotiating, they would lower the Medicare Drug costs by 54% to be the same as the VA?

We are talking around each other. You keep showing examples of negotiating the actual price the government pays for drugs. And yes before yesterday, the government couldn’t do that directly with Medicare.

However, I’m referring to how much money the Medicare patient is saving now based off their negotiations with pharma. If these negotiations didn’t take place today, the patient would still be on the hook for over $11,000 out of pocket costs annually. That is how the Medicare PDP was designed. Now, that burden has decreased by 50%. I’m sorry, but this sounds like “real” negotiations to me.

Why do you think Congress put a cap on out of pocket pocket costs with this new bill (gee, wonder where they got this idea)? They knew just lowering what they pay would not guarantee to be a cost saver for the patient. Nothing like telling the patient I got mine but you are out of luck.

You have an uncanny ability to have me defend industries and people that I don’t necessary like to.

[bobbiemcgee]

So excited to see what Liz does next [Sarcasm font]! Not supporting Donald Trump, what an exciting vision for the future of the nation. How long will our political parties be defined by their opinion of DJT? It's clearly what will define this election.

I think it's obvious that tRump will organize his merry band of election deniers and try to fix the election again.

[bobbiemcgee]

None.

However, she may steal some from Biden if she runs as an I.

She voted with tRump 93% of the time. Dems won't vote for her.

[paulxu]

You have an uncanny ability to have me defend industries and people that I don’t necessary like to.

Not intentional. While there were some cost saving measures before, nothing like the direct negotiating could get you like it got the veterans.

Hopefully all seniors can now benefit at that level.

[Strange Brew]

She voted with tRump 93% of the time. Dems won't vote for her.

She’ll likely be on The View next.

[X-band '01]

Maybe Yang's "Forward" party would come a callin'.

Not sure how many states the Forward party would even be on the ballot, but I doubt it's all 50 at this point.

[Masterofreality]

She’ll likely be on The View next.

Yeah…or MSNBC

[noteggs]

Not intentional. While there were some cost saving measures before, nothing like the direct negotiating could get you like it got the veterans.

Hopefully all seniors can now benefit at that level.

Well if you take in consideration 43 million people are enrolled in a plan d program and $5,250 per patient is a pretty big chunk of change. If you do the math, that’s $215 billion in potential savings to the patient in out of pocket costs.

Also, any comparison to VA benefits is apples to oranges. Ask any healthcare professional. Yes I know, in your mind there shouldn’t be.

[bobbiemcgee]

Very few ever reach the max out of pocket on Part D. 1.5 million in 2019.

[noteggs]

Very few ever reach the max out of pocket on Part D. 1.5 million in 2019.

Well if ask any physician, they will tell you all their seniors are in the donut hole lol. On a serious note, there is a reason because your number leaves out one important number, those who became dual eligible or low income subsidy patients. Those people are not included in the number you presented.

That number fluctuates yearly, but is roughly between 29-30% of the plan d patients. The percentage should drop because of number of patients entering Medicare age.

If you become dual eligible by hitting the donut hole, your benefits moves over to the State and they will cover your drug costs. As you can imagine, drugs become extremely inexpensive because now they will be using Medicaid out of pocket costs. Each State each year negotiates directly with the manufacturer on price (Paul would be proud - real negotiating).

The only problem with the States is they normally only include one drug per class to be on their formulary. So a patient may be switched from a drug that is currently working.

As you can see from my last post, I used the word potential because there no way to know and so many moving parts. Is it only 8 billion, 100 billion, or more? No one really knows. Only the government could come up with a plan so complicated.

[noteggs]

Double post

[bobbiemcgee]

Mitch laments his senate candidates are "low quality".

[Smails]

Mitch laments his senate candidates are "low quality".

I agree..bad batch in Ohio, PA and GA.

[X-band '01]

She’ll likely be on The View next.

Republicans might wish she goes there instead of potentially being part of Joe Biden's cabinet beginning in 2023. Especially if she winds up in a position where she could do more damage than a simple member of the House.


I agree..bad batch in Ohio, PA and GA.

At least Republicans in Missouri dodged the Eric Greitens landmine.

I'd also add Arizona to the list of places where they nominated someone bad.

[Strange Brew]

Republicans might wish she goes there instead of potentially being part of Joe Biden's cabinet beginning in 2023. Especially if she winds up in a position where she could do more damage than a simple member of the House.



At least Republicans in Missouri dodged the Eric Greitens landmine.

I'd also add Arizona to the list of places where they nominated someone bad.

Couldn’t do much worse than the current members of Biden’s cabinet…

[bobbiemcgee]

I agree..bad batch in Ohio, PA and GA.

Looks like they are running out of money. Not surprised as Scott is a criminal. Stole all his money from Medicare fraud:

https://www.newsweek.com/rick-scotts-fraud-settlement-resurfaces-senate-gop-runs-low-cash-1735418

[Strange Brew]

Looks like they are running out of money. Not surprised as Scott is a criminal. Stole all his money from Medicare fraud:

https://www.newsweek.com/rick-scotts-fraud-settlement-resurfaces-senate-gop-runs-low-cash-1735418

Haha, you’re worried about graft in gov’t but support Biden. It’s beyond ironic.

[bobbiemcgee]

graft? Nope. Scott is a thief. They put cookie monster in charge of the cookie jar.:pointandlaugh:

[Strange Brew]

graft? Nope. Scott is a thief. They put cookie monster in charge of the cookie jar.:pointandlaugh:

Yep, like putting a Biden in charge of Ukraine or China.

[bobbiemcgee]

King of whataboutism.

[Strange Brew]

King of whataboutism.

You started it..��

[Masterofreality]

Looks like they are running out of money. Not surprised as Scott is a criminal. Stole all his money from Medicare fraud:

https://www.newsweek.com/rick-scotts-fraud-settlement-resurfaces-senate-gop-runs-low-cash-1735418

Ya know. Graft isn’t limited to Republicans. Count TJ Cox a California Democrat in on the fraud corruption train too.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ex-congressman-indicted-on-fraud-charges-11660687938

[Xuperman]

graft? Nope. Scott is a thief. They put cookie monster in charge of the cookie jar.:pointandlaugh:

Are you completely out of touch with reality?

Who's son was paid millions for something he ADMITS he knew nothing about?

��

[xuwillie]

Are you completely out of touch with reality?

Who's son was paid millions for something he ADMITS he knew nothing about?

��

I cringe every time I see bobbie has posted something.

[Masterofreality]

Never forget St. Louis Police Captain David Dorn.
You want “Graft and Grift” Bobbie? BLM is it.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/husband-dorn-murdered-riots-killer-help-dividing-america

“ David didn’t agree with or support Black Lives Matter. He never understood Black Lives Matter, because it never actually did anything to help Black lives. The same year David was killed, over a dozen children were shot in St. Louis, and never once did Black Lives Matter show up. Their lives mattered. Fifty-five businesses were looted or destroyed the night David was murdered, many of them Black-owned. Their livelihoods mattered. My husband was a Black man who selflessly served his community for over 40 years. His life mattered.”

[paulxu]

The editor of Cleveland's newspaper decides that DeSantis and Vance may be a little too fascist for his liking.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/08/we-reject-the-free-speech-trampling-rules-set-by-jd-vance-and-ron-desantis-for-covering-their-rally-letter-from-the-editor.html

[noteggs]

Ok, a liberal newspaper (maybe the most in Ohio) states this?? Carry on…

[paulxu]

It was an editorial opinion. But I'm assuming what he related about attempting to cover the DeSantis/Vance rally was true. Maybe not.

[Masterofreality]

It was an editorial opinion. But I'm assuming what he related about attempting to cover the DeSantis/Vance rally was true. Maybe not.

I live in the Cuyahoga Socialist State…a speck of blue in a sea of red.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer and Cleveland.com have become unreadable. Every opinion piece is from the trash Washington Post and it is horribly unfairly biased.
The paper is barely alive. Don’t take a single thing it says with any seriousness. Their mission is to besmirch all Republicans whether local or National. 4 years ago Republican Jack Schrom, a highly successful businessman and philanthropist who was serving on the county council ran for County Executive vs Armond Budish- longtime Democrat bagman. It should have been no contest for Schrom based on qualifications but guess who the Plain Dealer endorsed, and who won? Now Budish is leaving in disgrace after screwing up the county budget and corruption is rampant, but you have to read other publications to hear about it.
And Quinn is the worst Garbage man. Un salvageable garbage.
The Plain Dealer itself silences free speech by refusing to print opposition Letters to The Editor. And Quinn has never once criticized Joe Biden for not taking questions at his little “program updates” or not being available to the press for questions during his campaign. A toilet of sleaze and pot meet kettle.
Republicans up here know that they will never get a fair shake in that fish wrap so why give it anything that it will surely spin negative?
This is a one newspaper town with biased one side reporting. Repubs have zero chance of winning anything in this county so no reason to give Quinn the time of day.

[Xuperman]

Biden must have taken a political Blue Pill.....US launches air strikes in Syria.

[bjf123]

Biden is supposed to be announcing his plan to forgive $10,000 of federal student debt for those making less than $125K. Three questions.

1. Will the IRS consider this taxable income to the person whose debt is forgiven? Probably not.
2. Can Biden even do this? Aren’t the federal purse strings the responsibility of Congress? (Ok, that’s an extra question)
3. How does this address the underlying problem, the outlandish tuition being charged by colleges and universities? If you don’t do that, the problem just continues for the next students applying for college loans. I guess they’ll have part of their loans forgiven, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[STL_XUfan]

Biden is supposed to be announcing his plan to forgive $10,000 of federal student debt for those making less than $125K. Three questions.

1. Will the IRS consider this taxable income to the person whose debt is forgiven? Probably not.
2. Can Biden even do this? Aren’t the federal purse strings the responsibility of Congress? (Ok, that’s an extra question)
3. How does this address the underlying problem, the outlandish tuition being charged by colleges and universities? If you don’t do that, the problem just continues for the next students applying for college loans. I guess they’ll have part of their loans forgiven, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

Obviously a press release, so take it with a huge grain of salt.

Looks like this will be coupled with changes to the income driven repayment programs, including not having interest compound if you are making the income driven repayment, at least on undergrad loans. It also discusses stricter rules cracking down on for-profit type colleges. Not really seeing any limits on controlling not-for-profit colleges tuitions, which they need to find a way to address or this whole bubble will just repeat itself.

[noteggs]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

It also discusses stricter rules cracking down on for-profit type colleges. Not really seeing any limits on controlling not-for-profit colleges tuitions, which they need to find a way to address or this whole bubble will just repeat itself.

Yea those rascally 5% of the schools need to be held in check! Agree with you on the other 95%.

[xubrew]

Biden is supposed to be announcing his plan to forgive $10,000 of federal student debt for those making less than $125K. Three questions.

1. Will the IRS consider this taxable income to the person whose debt is forgiven? Probably not.
2. Can Biden even do this? Aren’t the federal purse strings the responsibility of Congress? (Ok, that’s an extra question)
3. How does this address the underlying problem, the outlandish tuition being charged by colleges and universities? If you don’t do that, the problem just continues for the next students applying for college loans. I guess they’ll have part of their loans forgiven, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've got a follow-up question to your third question...

How many colleges will now jack their tuition up by $10,000?

[STL_XUfan]

Yea those rascally 5% of the schools need to be held in check! Agree with you on the other 95%.
To be fair, those 5% were really really really bad.

https://c.tenor.com/rwplrVlY2xoAAAAd/letterkenny-to-be-fair.gif

[GoMuskies]

I've got a follow-up question to your third question...

How many colleges will now jack their tuition up by $10,000?

Pretty much all of them, but it's completely unrelated to this. They generally just suck and are completely bloated.

[xubrew]

pretty much all of them, but it's completely unrelated to this. They generally just suck and are completely bloated.

^^^^accurate^^^^

[noteggs]

To be fair, those 5% were really really really bad.

https://c.tenor.com/rwplrVlY2xoAAAAd/letterkenny-to-be-fair.gif

Ok that’s funny…to be fair.

[bobbiemcgee]

I agree..bad batch in Ohio, PA and GA.

Vance sez your wife should stay if you abuse her, OZ shopping for "Crudites" at Wegners (Wegmans), and poor 'ol Herschel sez there are "too many trees", and he can't attend the debate bcuz it's the same time as Sunday Night Football. Hey herschel, the debate is on Thursday.

[Strange Brew]

Pretty much all of them, but it's completely unrelated to this. They generally just suck and are completely bloated.

Wonder how University officials and professors tend to vote….?

Good news is this will cover more money to the Sociology Depts, leading for more junk for people to quote here. :)

[bobbiemcgee]

Gov Polis sent me $1500.00. Maybe Biden was just trying to buy 40 million votes for the midterms.

[Masterofreality]

Vance sez your wife should stay if you abuse her, OZ shopping for "Crudites" at Wegners (Wegmans), and poor 'ol Herschel sez there are "too many trees", and he can't attend the debate bcuz it's the same time as Sunday Night Football. Hey herschel, the debate is on Thursday.

Have fun paying for someone else’s college “fun”
Hello more inflation!!

[Masterofreality]

Biden’s unilateral bailout (That Pelosi says is illegal) will cost $1 trillion as to Penn-Wharton Business School.
Insanity rules on the left. Bankrupting the country, one decree at a time.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/08/26/breaking-penn-wharton-pegs-bidens-academia-bailout-potential-cost-at-1-trillion-n492546

[xubrew]

So I saw that Trump is now calling out Mitch McConnell and wanting him removed?? Is that correct??

[bobbiemcgee]

Yep. he called Mitch a "broken down hack" and an "Old Crow" while saying his wife "Coco" is crazy. He didn't like Mitch's comment on his crappy candidates.

[paulxu]

Trump admits today that the second FBI investigation into Hillary was a fake investigation and handed him the election in 2016.

Quelle surprise !

https://images.dailykos.com/images/1106980/large/download5.jpg?1661626650

[Masterofreality]

Trump admits today that the second FBI investigation into Hillary was a fake investigation and handed him the election in 2016.

Quelle surprise !

https://images.dailykos.com/images/1106980/large/download5.jpg?1661626650

No. He doesn’t actually say that.
Hilary should have been prosecuted- You know, Classified Documents winding up on Weiner Wiener’s computer due to sloppy incompetence- but some people actually have respect for Norms, unlike Merrick Garland and the Left.

[paulxu]

Trump says it was a fake investigation.
Trump says the end result is he won in 2016.
Somehow he doesn't really say those two things, although they appear to be from him.
Oh well.

[Strange Brew]

Trump says it was a fake investigation.
Trump says the end result is he won in 2016.
Somehow he doesn't really say those two things, although they appear to be from him.
Oh well.

You see what you want to see but you likely think there still was Russian collusion and the Feds didn’t push Social media to bury the Hunter stories to collude with Biden to win 2020 (Zuck admitted it on Rohan’s show).

I think he meant there was no real effort to investigate Clinton and that it was a sham. On the flip side Trump (fPOTUS not fSoS, big difference in terms of rights/need to know) had his home searched/raided. I’d prefer the FBI indict Trump so his lawyers can obtain the redacted docs.

Also remember, with Clinton it was Obama’s AG and dept’s doing the investigating so likely not a hard hitting investigation.

[Masterofreality]

You see what you want to see but you likely think there still was Russian collusion and the Feds didn’t push Social media to bury the Hunter stories to collude with Biden to win 2020 (Zuck admitted it on Rohan’s show).

I think he meant there was no real effort to investigate Clinton and that it was a sham. On the flip side Trump (fPOTUS not fSoS, big difference in terms of rights/need to know) had his home searched/raided. I’d prefer the FBI indict Trump so his lawyers can obtain the redacted docs.

Also remember, with Clinton it was Obama’s AG and dept’s doing the investigating so likely not a hard hitting investigation.

Thank you Strange. Expressed it better than I could.
Paul’s obsession with a guy who is out of office while ignoring the Clusterf&@k Thant is IN office must be exhausting for him.
Oh well…..

[Masterofreality]

If you have Twitter, you have to read through this thread.
It. Is. Golden!!

https://twitter.com/annbauerwriter/status/1563533751120203778?s=21&t=hN9WvTt9jn9YCLpxi-0UPw

[paulxu]

I’d prefer the FBI indict Trump so his lawyers can obtain the redacted docs.

The lawyers don't seem to be quite up to it in this instance. One might even be a witness in subsequent proceedings.
The judge has tried to help them out, telling them what basic things they have overlooked, where to go find sample forms to file, reminding them they have to complete service, etc.
As to the redacted "docs," if you are talking about the affidavit items, they can get those if an indictment results; this keeps witnesses from being unduly publicized, sources and methods held close, any classified information kept secret.

If you are talking about the "docs" that were picked up from the warrant, they could always ask Trump what he had on the premises that he shouldn't have had.

[UCGRAD4X]

I wonder if a continued awakening of ultra liberals like Bill Maher are speculating about a conspiracy to steal an election.

https://freedomnewsusa.com/watch-bill-maher-reveals-conspiracy-between-mainstream-media-and-big-tech-to/

[Strange Brew]

The lawyers don't seem to be quite up to it in this instance. One might even be a witness in subsequent proceedings.
The judge has tried to help them out, telling them what basic things they have overlooked, where to go find sample forms to file, reminding them they have to complete service, etc.
As to the redacted "docs," if you are talking about the affidavit items, they can get those if an indictment results; this keeps witnesses from being unduly publicized, sources and methods held close, any classified information kept secret.

If you are talking about the "docs" that were picked up from the warrant, they could always ask Trump what he had on the premises that he shouldn't have had.

Thanks, I meant unredacted docs. The affidavit, which is why I said I hope they indict him because that makes everything (potentially) public. The obfuscation makes this look political.

[Masterofreality]

Thanks, I meant unredacted docs. The affidavit, which is why I said I hope they indict him because that makes everything (potentially) public. The obfuscation makes this look political.

Even “The Hill” thinks this was political BS.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3618515-unsealed-mar-a-lago-search-warrant-affidavit-reveals-the-government-has-no-case-against-trump/

[STL_XUfan]

Even “The Hill” thinks this was political BS.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3618515-unsealed-mar-a-lago-search-warrant-affidavit-reveals-the-government-has-no-case-against-trump/


"THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL"

Also, do you think the Hill is a left wing publication?

[Strange Brew]

"THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL"

Also, do you think the Hill is a left wing publication?



Not sure if more does but those who lean Left on the board have found it credible in the past.

[Xuperman]

So, the couple that sold Biden's daughter's diary to Project Veritas have plead guilty to crimes that carry up to 5 years.

This situation is hard to get a handle on. I believe they were charged with Federal crimes, so the Biden DOJ could prosecute the case. One would think that a plea bargain will be made, for cooperation in building a case against O'Keefe and PV.

Obviously, the Dems would like nothing more than to get something criminal on O'Keefe. However, Biden damn sure doesn't want the contents of the diary to become a bigger story....but wouldn't Ashley Biden simply say the shower stuff was not true?

This story is complicated. I believe the FBI has made contact with PV employees. Apparently journalists can possess stolen material, but it looks like the DOJ legal argument will be that Project Veritas is not that type of "journalism". Can someone clarify the legalities here?

[Masterofreality]

Hilary should have been prosecuted. But she wasn’t so Trump shouldn’t be either.

Wall Street Journal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-comey-clinton-document-standard-fbi-investigation-donald-trump-mar-a-lago-classified-prosecution-justice-department-11661711673?st=wxws0h0heiqe9id&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

[paulxu]

This story is complicated. I believe the FBI has made contact with PV employees. Apparently journalists can possess stolen material, but it looks like the DOJ legal argument will be that Project Veritas is not that type of "journalism". Can someone clarify the legalities here?

I'm not that I'm someone to help you.
But, I'll note that Project Veriitas apparently paid money for it and for them to steal other stuff.
I wouldn't suspect the journalistic exception to hold up under those conditions.

[Strange Brew]

So, the couple that sold Biden's daughter's diary to Project Veritas have plead guilty to crimes that carry up to 5 years.

This situation is hard to get a handle on. I believe they were charged with Federal crimes, so the Biden DOJ could prosecute the case. One would think that a plea bargain will be made, for cooperation in building a case against O'Keefe and PV.

Obviously, the Dems would like nothing more than to get something criminal on O'Keefe. However, Biden damn sure doesn't want the contents of the diary to become a bigger story....but wouldn't Ashley Biden simply say the shower stuff was not true?

This story is complicated. I believe the FBI has made contact with PV employees. Apparently journalists can possess stolen material, but it looks like the DOJ legal argument will be that Project Veritas is not that type of "journalism". Can someone clarify the legalities here?

Comes down to the gov’t deciding who is or isn’t a journalist. Not a power it has but I’m sure some will now say, “the Founders couldn’t have envisioned the Internet when the wrote the 1A”.

[paulxu]

If the former president has an issue with executive privilege of records from his administration, the PRA requires it be brought to the District Court in the DC, not to a judge in Florida.

The WSJ misses the point that the crimes noted in the warrant are primarily Obstruction of Justice, and Espionage.
The FBI had great concern from early documents that highly classified US intelligence could fall into the wrong hands, and moved to secure them after a number of attempts and 18 months of trying.

[Strange Brew]

If the former president has an issue with executive privilege of records from his administration, the PRA requires it be brought to the District Court in the DC, not to a judge in Florida.

The WSJ misses the point that the crimes noted in the warrant are primarily Obstruction of Justice, and Espionage.
The FBI had great concern from early documents that highly classified US intelligence could fall into the wrong hands, and moved to secure them after a number of attempts and 18 months of trying.

You say this but none of “us” have any idea what the actual documents are. Just what the media says they are. No one has been charged with anything yet. I’ll wait.

We had the Clinton emails (not from Russians before you start).

[paulxu]

Well, we actually have some idea because of what they discovered in the earlier 2 sets of boxes picked up, and also from the receipts provided on this search.

They noted 11 sets of classified information were picked up this time.

[Xuperman]

I'm not that I'm someone to help you.
But, I'll note that Project Veriitas apparently paid money for it and for them to steal other stuff.
I wouldn't suspect the journalistic exception to hold up under those conditions.

I spent the morning reading the most recent developments, but there is so much gray area.

Ashley Biden left stuff behind at some rehab facility for sexual addiction?

The woman that has been charged ended up in the same room and found the stuff, including the diary under a mattress?

Keeping the stuff without attempting to return it is theft? Also, why didn't Ashley realize she forgot those personal belongings? Strange.

Yes, PV admits paying for the stuff, but the big question is, why in the world would Joe Biden want to shine any additional light on this story? The "shower" memories described in the diary are beyond serious and conservative media would certainly run with it if any serious charges were brought against O'Keefe and PV.

None of this makes any sense. There is no way Ashley Biden will confirm the allegations are true, BUT a very large percentage of Americans would find that very hard to swallow.

[Strange Brew]

Well, we actually have some idea because of what they discovered in the earlier 2 sets of boxes picked up, and also from the receipts provided on this search.

They noted 11 sets of classified information were picked up this time.

Who is they Paul?

The potential prosecution and/or those who sought the warrant?

[Masterofreality]

If the former president has an issue with executive privilege of records from his administration, the PRA requires it be brought to the District Court in the DC, not to a judge in Florida.

The WSJ misses the point that the crimes noted in the warrant are primarily Obstruction of Justice, and Espionage.
The FBI had great concern from early documents that highly classified US intelligence could fall into the wrong hands, and moved to secure them after a number of attempts and 18 months of trying.

I don’t think that the Wall Street Journal missed a thing…except what you HOPED to happen.
And, nah. There are no “crimes”, only allegations. Again, you say what you HOPE to happen, but there is no arrest, no indictment, nothing. The President has the power to declassify anything he wants and there is still the issue of attorney client privilege.
How many times are you gonna get hot and bothered over the guy who lives rent free in your head? How many times can you keep delusioning that “The Walls Are Closing In” with Nothingburgers as a result?
This obsession is not good for your health.

[Masterofreality]

Comes down to the gov’t deciding who is or isn’t a journalist. Not a power it has but I’m sure some will now say, “the Founders couldn’t have envisioned the Internet when the wrote the 1A”.

Welp. Most people consider BuzzFeed, that published the debunked Steele Dossier as a journalistic site & it’s only on line. Same with Project Veritas.
You can’t draw a line between whether something that is only “on line” like The Drudge Report or Huffington Post vs The Chicago Tribune is or is not journalistic endeavor IMO.

[bobbiemcgee]

I don’t think that the Wall Street Journal missed a thing…except what you HOPED to happen.
And, nah. There are no “crimes”, only allegations. Again, you say what you HOPE to happen, but there is no arrest, no indictment, nothing. The President has the power to declassify anything he wants and there is still the issue of attorney client privilege.
How many times are you gonna get hot and bothered over the guy who lives rent free in your head? How many times can you keep delusioning that “The Walls Are Closing In” with Nothingburgers as a result?
This obsession is not good for your health.

Yeah he can just wave his magic wand over the docs. Poof! Everybody can read them!

[Masterofreality]

Yeah he can just wave his magic wand over the docs. Poof! Everybody can read them!

You must be referring to Paul. Since he’s convinced he is clairvoyant and knows everything that is there.

[paulxu]

Not at all. But I can read reports of what's actually been released, as available on the District Court's website.
Like the attached, listing the items that were taken pursuant to the warrant, including classified documents:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22131379-220805-trump-warrant#document/p5/a2141024

[Strange Brew]

Not at all. But I can read reports of what's actually been released, as available on the District Court's website.
Like the attached, listing the items that were taken pursuant to the warrant, including classified documents:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22131379-220805-trump-warrant#document/p5/a2141024

So not the actual docs just what is said was there by the prosecution or warrant seekers...

[paulxu]

So not the actual docs just what is said was there by the prosecution or warrant seekers...

Or the filter team.
Yes, I'm making the assumption that when they marked something "secret" or "top secret" or "confidential" that they were not making it up.
That stuff has already been turned over to the services to determine the extent of damage to national security.
And the attorney for Trump Properties that was on site signed the receipt indicating those listings. Maybe she's in on the whole deal too?

Then again, perhaps it's all fake news.

[XU_Lou]

Umm, yea, what Catholic religion is ole crazy Nancy getting her doctrine from:

"But one word that pervade through all of the discussion was the word ‘justice.’ The fact that this is such an assault on women of color and women – lower income families is just sinful. It’s sinful. It's wrong that they would be able to say to women what they think women should be doing with their lives and their bodies. But it's sinful, the injustice of it all."

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/82622-0

[Strange Brew]

Or the filter team.
Yes, I'm making the assumption that when they marked something "secret" or "top secret" or "confidential" that they were not making it up.
That stuff has already been turned over to the services to determine the extent of damage to national security.
And the attorney for Trump Properties that was on site signed the receipt indicating those listings. Maybe she's in on the whole deal too?

Then again, perhaps it's all fake news.

They're considering espionage. Let's see what the docs actually are and they DOJ will have to prove intent.

[Masterofreality]

Or the filter team.
Yes, I'm making the assumption that when they marked something "secret" or "top secret" or "confidential" that they were not making it up.
That stuff has already been turned over to the services to determine the extent of damage to national security.
And the attorney for Trump Properties that was on site signed the receipt indicating those listings. Maybe she's in on the whole deal too?

Then again, perhaps it's all fake news.

Paul “assuming” and “perhapsing” is hilarious to create a 2+2 = 5 posit.
My guffawing is too loud for the wife to take.

[paulxu]

That explains it then.
Documents marked Top Secret were not really marked that way, but on the receipt that goes to the court it says that.

Trump's attorney is in on the scam; she signed off on the property receipt.

[Caf]

Umm, yea, what Catholic religion is ole crazy Nancy getting her doctrine from:

"But one word that pervade through all of the discussion was the word ‘justice.’ The fact that this is such an assault on women of color and women – lower income families is just sinful. It’s sinful. It's wrong that they would be able to say to women what they think women should be doing with their lives and their bodies. But it's sinful, the injustice of it all."

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/82622-0

I wonder how many republicans have made their careers and won races based on their abortion stance? That’s gone. The exact opposite is going to happen for the Dems now. They’re going to love being able to raise this issue and the GOP is going to have to own or answer all of the negative stories. Regardless of whether or not they and their voters are happy with the outcome, the very real and public struggles of women to get these services will turn voters out more than the hidden impact of abortions ever did. ‘We did it’ will not turn out votes. Trump knows this and it’s why he’s not owning the overturn. The Dems have won scores of elections on social/culture issues alone, SCOTUS just allowed them to put trans rights, a very weak polling calling card, aside and scream about this. I think it’s going to be a disaster for the GOP this midterm and beyond.

Inflation cooling, jobs hanging in (for now), student debt relief, and abortion. Meanwhile the GOP is stuck on Trump. There should have been a red tidal wave, itÂ’s losing steam fast.

[xubrew]

I've decided that from now on I will always vote for the most boring candidate. Regardless of party or policy, I just want boring people in office. I want politics to be as uninteresting as it can possibly be. Who puts people to sleep the fastest?? That's all I care about now!!

[GoMuskies]

I've decided that from now on I will always vote for the most boring candidate.

Solid plan. Andrew Yang is boring as shit. Just saying!

[xubrew]

Solid plan. Andrew Yang is boring as shit. Just saying!

Then he's got my vote!!

[Masterofreality]

I wonder how many republicans have made their careers and won races based on their abortion stance? That’s gone. The exact opposite is going to happen for the Dems now. They’re going to love being able to raise this issue and the GOP is going to have to own or answer all of the negative stories. Regardless of whether or not they and their voters are happy with the outcome, the very real and public struggles of women to get these services will turn voters out more than the hidden impact of abortions ever did. ‘We did it’ will not turn out votes. Trump knows this and it’s why he’s not owning the overturn. The Dems have won scores of elections on social/culture issues alone, SCOTUS just allowed them to put trans rights, a very weak polling calling card, aside and scream about this. I think it’s going to be a disaster for the GOP this midterm and beyond.

Inflation cooling, jobs hanging in (for now), student debt relief, and abortion. Meanwhile the GOP is stuck on Trump. There should have been a red tidal wave, itÂ’s losing steam fast.

“Services” = not a human baby.
Way to dehumanize a killing.
“Losing steam” as to the media. Voters and parents remember.

[Masterofreality]

From The NY Times:
“ SCOOP: The Washington Post is on track to lose money this year, sources say. It been unable to boost subscribers back to the 3 million it had in 2020 -- and CEO Fred Ryan has floated cutting 100 newsroom positions. Story here from me and @BenMullin”

Amazing that when you peddle shit instead of actual balanced journalism that you *might* lose money & subscribers.
Start searching for more biased hacks Paul.

[paulxu]

Exactly what do I have to do with the Washington Post?



Former president Donald Trump's conservative social media safe haven, Truth Social, is being accused by a vendor of nonpayment of upwards of $1 million in hosting fees, according to a report from Fox Business on Thursday.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/trump-social-media-app-facing-financial-fallout

All you Trumpsters "start searching for more biased hacks."

[bobbiemcgee]

Doesn't moneybags Bezos own Wapo? He could toss them a billion or two.

[X-band '01]

Exactly what do I have to do with the Washington Post?



https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/trump-social-media-app-facing-financial-fallout

All you Trumpsters "start searching for more biased hacks."

Then again, I thought our resident Trumpers moved on to Newsmax and OANN. Apparently Fox is getting off his bandwagon.

[Caf]

“Services” = not a human baby.
Way to dehumanize a killing.
“Losing steam” as to the media. Voters and parents remember.

Call it whatever you want. I genuinely couldn't care less which party wins. Gridlock sounds good to me.

The GOP always has good turnout, the Dems is much more volatile so an added interest group/incentive has greater impact to their benefit. I could not have come up with a single tailwind for them a few months ago. This is now one regardless of your beliefs

[noteggs]

Call it whatever you want. I genuinely couldn't care less which party wins. Gridlock sounds good to me.

The GOP always has good turnout, the Dems is much more volatile so an added interest group/incentive has greater impact to their benefit. I could not have come up with a single tailwind for them a few months ago. This is now one regardless of your beliefs

Yea saw a poll the other day which states what you commented on earlier. New question - threat to democracy. Both scored high on both sides of the aisle (actually scored higher than economy).

I would assume Democrats agreed because of abortion and Trump stuff. On the Republican side is probably due to Trump stuff. Both sides love to play the victim card. Democrats are masters at this and Republicans are not very good historically.

Oh and BTW, threat to democracy is going to be a rally cry for Democrats now until November. Apparently phrase scored well in focus groups. Guess defund police didn’t fair as well. Who knew.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yea saw a poll the other day which states what you commented on earlier. New question - threat to democracy. Both scored high on both sides of the aisle (actually scored higher than economy).

I would assume Democrats agreed because of abortion and Trump stuff. On the Republican side is probably due to Trump stuff. Both sides love to play the victim card. Democrats are masters at this and Republicans are not very good historically.

Oh and BTW, threat to democracy is going to be a rally cry for Democrats now until November. Apparently phrase scored well in focus groups. Guess defund police didn’t fair as well. Who knew.

Joe wants to hire 100,000 cops.

[Strange Brew]

Joe wants to hire 100,000 cops.

At the Federal level?

And the past few years of police hating from the Left has caused the forces to be understaffed and underfunded. It will take years to train those new officers.

[noteggs]

Joe wants to hire 100,000 cops.

Again, Democrats got the message that defund was not a great message based off focus groups and polling. Who knew…

[Strange Brew]

Again, Democrats got the message that defund was not a great message based off focus groups and polling. Who knew…

Weird right, it’s almost like they wanted to destabilize major metros to blame the former Prez and then be the “savior” when they’re in power. Been their calling card my entire adult life.0

[Caf]

Yea saw a poll the other day which states what you commented on earlier. New question - threat to democracy. Both scored high on both sides of the aisle (actually scored higher than economy).

I would assume Democrats agreed because of abortion and Trump stuff. On the Republican side is probably due to Trump stuff. Both sides love to play the victim card. Democrats are masters at this and Republicans are not very good historically.

Oh and BTW, threat to democracy is going to be a rally cry for Democrats now until November. Apparently phrase scored well in focus groups. Guess defund police didn’t fair as well. Who knew.

Not meant as a slight, I think you’re lying to yourself about the democrats mastering the threat to democracy versus the republicans. I can give you 50/50 because I think the Dems wouldn’t have respected the result either, but one side got people to storm the capitol so I think they’re pretty good at it. It and they are all the same, just different birthplaces.

[X-band '01]

Again, Democrats got the message that defund was not a great message based off focus groups and polling. Who knew…

Which made the cry from far-right Republicans to defund the FBI even more ironic.

[Xuperman]

Which made the cry from far-right Republicans to defund the FBI even more ironic.

Look, this country can not properly function if there is the slightest perception that Federal Law Enforcement is politically bias. Unfortunately, we are most definitely here.....and the perception of bias is nothing but Trump stone cold hatred.

[xubrew]

Look, this country can not properly function if there is the slightest perception that Federal Law Enforcement is politically bias. Unfortunately, we are most definitely here.....and the perception of bias is nothing but Trump stone cold hatred.

Look, this country cannot properly function if so many people are stupid enough to have the perception that federal law enforcement is politically biased, and then decided not to act simply to accommodate the morons who think that.

It's actually easier to argue that he was shown far more leniency and given far more chances than nearly anyone else in the country ever would have been given.

[noteggs]

Double post

[XU_Lou]

Look, this country cannot properly function if so many people are stupid enough to have the perception that federal law enforcement is politically biased, and then decided not to act simply to accommodate the morons who think that.

It's actually easier to argue that he was shown far more leniency and given far more chances than nearly anyone else in the country ever would have been given.

Really? Is that what NPR or your FB feed told you? This is totally delusional and factually incorrect.

[xubrew]

Really? Is that what NPR or your FB feed told you? This is totally delusional and factually incorrect.

I don't use Facebook. In fact I hate it. I think we'd be much better off without it. And if I wanted to listen to NPR, I wouldn't even know where to find it on the dial.

What I did do is something that I am certain you did not. I read the actual filing.

[XU_Lou]

I don't use Facebook. In fact I hate it. I think we'd be much better off without it. And if I wanted to listen to NPR, I wouldn't even know where to find it on the dial.

What I did do is something that I am certain you did not. I read the actual filing.

You may have read the filing, but you obviously didn't read my post - because that's not what I was commenting on.

[noteggs]

Not meant as a slight, I think you’re lying to yourself about the democrats mastering the threat to democracy versus the republicans. I can give you 50/50 because I think the Dems wouldn’t have respected the result either, but one side got people to storm the capitol so I think they’re pretty good at it. It and they are all the same, just different birthplaces.

Agree with you statement about the threat to democracy and J6 certainly was. If you reread my masters at it comment, you’ll see I’m was talking about creating victim hood. Maybe you look at them as the same thing, I do not…I think. Guess someone can make a good argument they are.

[xubrew]

You may have read the filing, but you obviously didn't read my post - because that's not what I was commenting on.

Okay, name another elected official in the entire history of the United States that....

-took records,
-had the NARA ask for them back and didn't give them back,
-had the NARA ask a second time before going to the FBI,
-then had it be discovered that some of the documents were classified,
-then when asked for the rest of them back claimed that there were no more,
-then when the FBI issued a subpoena STILL delayed in complying
-then gave some of them back while falsely claiming they were no longer in possession of any documents when they absolutely were and some of those documents were classified.

Who has ever done anything like that and not been indicted?? It's not that he took documents. It's that he took documents, had a chance to give them back and didn't, then gave some of them back and kept the rest, then gave some more back and lied about how he didn't have anymore, and AFTER ALL THAT was STILL found to be in possession of classified documents.

Had the idiot just given them back the first time, or the second time, or even the THIRD time, we're not having this discussion. That would have been it. It's my opinion that virtually no one who has ever lived in this country would have been given as many chances as he was, over the course of a year, to return stolen classified documents. If I'm wrong, then give an example of this ever happening before...

[XU_Lou]

Okay, name another elected official in the entire history of the United States that....

-took records,
-had the NARA ask for them back and didn't give them back,
-had the NARA ask a second time before going to the FBI,
-then had it be discovered that some of the documents were classified,
-then when asked for the rest of them back claimed that there were no more,
-then when the FBI issued a subpoena STILL delayed in complying
-then gave some of them back while falsely claiming they were no longer in possession of any documents when they absolutely were and some of those documents were classified.

Who has ever done anything like that and not been indicted?? It's not that he took documents. It's that he took documents, had a chance to give them back and didn't, then gave some of them back and kept the rest, then gave some more back and lied about how he didn't have anymore, and AFTER ALL THAT was STILL found to be in possession of classified documents.

Had the idiot just given them back the first time, or the second time, or even the THIRD time, we're not having this discussion. That would have been it. It's my opinion that virtually no one who has ever lived in this country would have been given as many chances as he was, over the course of a year, to return stolen classified documents. If I'm wrong, then give an example of this ever happening before...

Diversion? Or reading comprehension issues?

[noteggs]

Look, this country can not properly function if there is the slightest perception that Federal Law Enforcement is politically bias. Unfortunately, we are most definitely here.....and the perception of bias is nothing but Trump stone cold hatred.

Can’t argue with your first sentence. However, Band is right. Proposing reforms is a better way to go and less hypercritical.

[Masterofreality]

Lyin’ Biden.

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/why-biden-keeps-lying-about-energy?s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct

[Masterofreality]

Exactly what do I have to do with the Washington Post?
"

It’s your Bible.

[Masterofreality]

Look, this country cannot properly function if so many people are stupid enough to have the perception that federal law enforcement is politically biased, and then decided not to act simply to accommodate the morons who think that.

It's actually easier to argue that he was shown far more leniency and given far more chances than nearly anyone else in the country ever would have been given.

Except Hilary Clinton.

[xubrew]

Except Hilary Clinton.

Are you suggesting that she was given three chance to turn over stolen classified documents and lied each time she was given the chance?

That's not the same. The difference is that when she was given a chance to hand over her emails, she did. Had Trump done the same, even had it been on the second or third request, we're not having this conversation. That's why I find what he did to be, more than anything else, so unbelievably stupid

[paulxu]

Hillary, like Powell before here, and Ivanka and Jared after her, improperly used a personal device for government work.
In looking at her case, it's good to note that "if" someone sent her a classified document, evidence of that would be on the government servers in the state department that sent it to her private server, where it could be discovered.

In her actual server emails, 3 documents are noted as possibly being important.
2 of them had a "C" for confidential buried somewhere in them, the third we don't know about.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisiting-clinton-and-classified-information/

But at any rate, nothing near what Brew describes above and the pictures from Mar-a-Lago show of documents with the Top Secret, etc. cover sheets.
I agree with you Brew. He had a lot of chances to return these and who the hell knows why he didn't. This would all be over long ago.

[Masterofreality]

Are you suggesting that she was given three chance to turn over stolen classified documents and lied each time she was given the chance?

That's not the same. The difference is that when she was given a chance to hand over her emails, she did. Had Trump done the same, even had it been on the second or third request, we're not having this conversation. That's why I find what he did to be, more than anything else, so unbelievably stupid

One word makes your entire post invalid. Stolen.
Nothing was “Stolen”. He’s a former President. He and previous Presidents can remove documents and Presidents can declassify anything they want. Hilary was not a President. She had no power to do anything, but she screwed up anyway.
The FBI has created this tempest. But it is in a teapot

[xubrew]

One word makes your entire post invalid. Stolen.
Nothing was “Stolen”. He’s a former President. He and previous Presidents can remove documents and Presidents can declassify anything they want. Hilary was not a President. She had no power to do anything, but she screwed up anyway.
The FBI has created this tempest. But it is in a teapot

Uhh, no he can’t. They weren’t his personal files. He cannot just arbitrarily remove them as evidenced by the fact that he was ordered under subpoena (multiple times) to give them back. And didn’t. Multiple times.

And they WERE NOT declassified!! Whether you believe he could or couldn’t declassify them, HE DIDN’T!! And even if he had, I think it’s safe to say that once he left office they were considered to be re-classified by the next administration.

But the reason they were stolen WAS BECAUSE THEY CLEARLY WERE NOT HIS!!! No one, regardless of where they work, can just walk out with company or department files on their last day on the job and not expect a visit from the police. Classified or not.

I mean…ARE YOU SERIOUS!!???

[bobbiemcgee]

MOR gets his info from Lying Social. Everybody agrees with him there.

[xubrew]

MOR gets his info from Lying Social. Everybody agrees with him there.

I’ve met MOR. I like MOR. He doesn’t strike me as being a mental case. But it is a little surprising that anyone with any sense would think Trump can just walk out of the White House with files that don’t belong to him, and then refuse multiple times to give them back, and think of them as not being stolen. The fact that they were classified makes it infinitely worse, but even if they weren’t it’d still be an issue. Albeit a smaller one; but ah issue nonetheless.

[XU_Lou]

Uhh, no he can’t. They weren’t his personal files. He cannot just arbitrarily remove them as evidenced by the fact that he was ordered under subpoena (multiple times) to give them back. And didn’t. Multiple times.

And they WERE NOT declassified!! Whether you believe he could or couldn’t declassify them, HE DIDN’T!! And even if he had, I think it’s safe to say that once he left office they were considered to be re-classified by the next administration.

But the reason they were stolen WAS BECAUSE THEY CLEARLY WERE NOT HIS!!! No one, regardless of where they work, can just walk out with company or department files on their last day on the job and not expect a visit from the police. Classified or not.

I mean…ARE YOU SERIOUS!!???

I mean, seriously, you should stop getting all your info/wishful thinking from NPR and your FB feed.

From Mike Davis, a former law clerk for Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch:

"Biden DOJ has a fundamental misunderstanding of the law.

The President has the power to declassify records and take personal copies when he leaves office.

Commander-in-Chief Clause trumps Espionage Act.

Presidential Records Act trumps general statutes on government property."

You can read Davis's full thread here: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/08/31/latest-trump-raid-update-exposes-biden-dojs-fundamental-misunderstanding-of-the-n2612495

[xubrew]

He didn’t take personal copies and he didn’t declassify them. He took the original hard copies that were classified.

But I do find it funny that a former law clerk is saying the attorney general doesn’t understand the law. Has Gorsuch himself weighed in??

[XU_Lou]

He didn’t take personal copies and he didn’t declassify them. He took the original hard copies that were classified.

But I do find it funny that a former law clerk is saying the attorney general doesn’t understand the law. Has Gorsuch himself weighed in??

C'mon, are you being freaking serious? When have SC justices ever weighed in on a case?

How the hell would you know what Trump took and what he declassified? I think a SC clerk is going to know a helluva lot more than some twerp from MSNBC, or some corrupt FBI cop.

And when has the law ever mattered to the DOJ when it comes to Trump?? See Russiagate. See lack of investigation into Hunter laptop before the election - as well as the FBI "asking" social media to suppress the story.

Is it willful ignorance or wishful thinking on your part and the other libs on this board?

[Xville]

Your schtick is tired lou, go to bed.

[XU_Lou]

Your schtick is tired lou, go to bed.

As soon as your wife gets over here I will...

[bobbiemcgee]

"There was no danger of whatever the FBI alleges was at Mar-a-Lago falling into unsavory hands". BS 58 bedrooms and 33 bathrooms and who knows how many storage closets. I'm sure they checked them all everyday.

Also the FBI found a box of classified docs in trump's office and in his desk. One of his lawyers said he had "frequent visitors to the office." Some "unsavory hands" could have easily got into these docs.

[Caf]

Agree with you statement about the threat to democracy and J6 certainly was. If you reread my masters at it comment, you’ll see I’m was talking about creating victim hood. Maybe you look at them as the same thing, I do not…I think. Guess someone can make a good argument they are.

See that now - agreed, no debate here. A similar dynamic I can't stand is the idea that none of our problems are the lesser of evils or side effects worth dealing with. It's always someone else's fault for not doing the obvious perfect solution.

[bobbiemcgee]

Another 1/6 "peaceful protester" gets 10 years in the federal slammer.

[noteggs]

See that now - agreed, no debate here. A similar dynamic I can't stand is the idea that none of our problems are the lesser of evils or side effects worth dealing with. It's always someone else's fault for not doing the obvious perfect solution.

Agree. Deficit comes to mind.

What is also interesting, is how people are arguing who was less wrong with governmental documents. If people were somewhat objective, they should realize both sides had areas of being worse than the other. No winners here.

Kinda why I’ve avoided the MAL thread as of late. Seems like we have bigger fish to fry as a country. Yes I can hear some now, “what about the potential espionage!” If it comes to this, then there’ll have my ear.

[XU_Lou]

The second coming of Adolph Hitler spoke tonight.

What an absolutely disgusting human being.

I wonder what all the people who whine about Trump's mean Tweets will have to say....

[Strange Brew]

What was with the backdrop? Jeez.

[noteggs]

What was with the backdrop? Jeez.

That was rather puzzling…

[paulxu]

A long but thoughtful article on Christianity in our country today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/01/michael-gerson-evangelical-christian-maga-democracy/

[XU_Lou]

After that speech last night, I don't want to ever hear anymore bullshit about J6. That fucker slandered, and then incited violence against half the country.

It was probably the most shameful speech ever given by a president.

Don't forget, this wasn't a one-off - this comes after Kathy Hochul's and Charlie Crist's recent comments.

Biden must be impeached!!

[Strange Brew]

A long but thoughtful article on Christianity in our country today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/01/michael-gerson-evangelical-christian-maga-democracy/

The WaPo still doesn’t get it.

The Biden WH labeled pro-lifers as extremist and semi-fascist. Basically alienating most Christians.

[Xville]

Biden finally accomplished something worthwhile last night…calling trump and his followers what they are..extremists and threats to democracy. No fan of Biden but he’s absolutely correct.

Time for republicans to get rid of trump and start winning elections.

[Smails]

A long but thoughtful article on Christianity in our country today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/01/michael-gerson-evangelical-christian-maga-democracy/

Any thoughts on Biden's speech last night?

[Strange Brew]

Biden finally accomplished something worthwhile last night…calling trump and his followers what they are..extremists and threats to democracy. No fan of Biden but he’s absolutely correct.

Time for republicans to get rid of trump and start winning elections.

How is the average Trump voter a threat to democracy? What do you and he define as democracy because the United States is not a democracy.

Ville this comment is extreme even for you.

[Xville]

How is the average Trump voter a threat to democracy? What do you and he define as democracy because the United States is not a democracy.

Ville this comment is extreme even for you.

How? Because they vote for trump who is a threat, and fine a threat to a constitutional republic.

[Strange Brew]

How? Because they vote for trump who is a threat, and fine a threat to a constitutional republic.

How so?

[Smails]

How? Because they vote for trump who is a threat, and fine a threat to a constitutional republic.

Are you saying that those who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 are extremists?

[paulxu]

Any thoughts on Biden's speech last night?

I think he pointed out there are many, perhaps the majority of Republicans who believe in the rule of law, peaceful transfer of power, etc.
But unfortunately the party is being steered by the last president and some extremist elements who believe things like violence being the answer to an election you lost...and that is not good for our country.

[Strange Brew]

I think he pointed out there are many, perhaps the majority of Republicans who believe in the rule of law, peaceful transfer of power, etc.
But unfortunately the party is being steered by the last president and some extremist elements who believe things like violence being the answer to an election you lost...and that is not good for our country.

What violence are you referencing? ONE riot at the capitol. Remove the plank from your eyes Paul.

[paulxu]

What violence are you referencing? ONE riot at the capitol. Remove the plank from your eyes Paul.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-mar-a-lago-search-republican-reaction/671104/

[Strange Brew]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-mar-a-lago-search-republican-reaction/671104/

Users on social media platforms. Keep reaching, you're sure to grab onto something. I'll see you when you get there Paul.

Edit: This is lazy journalism. Biden gives speech. Atlantic scours the internet to find posts to back up the speech. Meanwhile, we had an assassination attempt on a SCOTUS Judge and meh, nothing to see here. This is first class gaslighting Paul. Get smarter.

[paulxu]

Didn't take much "scouring" on their part. Ted Cruz, Steve Bannon, Gateway Pundit, Gingrich...and the list goes on.

[Strange Brew]

Didn't take much "scouring" on their part. Ted Cruz, Steve Bannon, Gateway Pundit, Gingrich...and the list goes on.

Calling for actual or metaphorical violence? I'm old enough to remember D's telling supporters to get in the face of/assault political opponents. Neither is right and it's interesting you focus on one side only. It could be just as easily said the Left is a threat to the Republic but that is not productive.