Politics Thread

[xubrew]

I think MOR is a little over the top, but having said that people have a right to be frustrated. DEMOCRATS have a right to be frustrated!! They SHOULD be frustrated! They have control over all three branches of government, they got there in large part because of the vision they sold. Well...the current reality doesn't match the vision. So...people should be pissed!!

Democrats are big on selling a vision and small on actually delivering on it. That's how I feel. And...I'm kinda tired of it. They're good at rallying around something that they think is unfair, or wrong, or some sort of social injustice and gaining votes to win elections. They suck once they're elected. I'm going to have a hard time voting for very many Democrats this next time around.

[XU_Lou]

I think MOR is a little over the top, but having said that people have a right to be frustrated. DEMOCRATS have a right to be frustrated!! They SHOULD be frustrated! They have control over all three branches of government, they got there in large part because of the vision they sold. Well...the current reality doesn't match the vision. So...people should be pissed!!

Democrats are big on selling a vision and small on actually delivering on it. That's how I feel. And...I'm kinda tired of it. They're good at rallying around something that they think is unfair, or wrong, or some sort of social injustice and gaining votes to win elections. They suck once they're elected. I'm going to have a hard time voting for very many Democrats this next time around.

IMHO, the reason we are at each other's throats is because of big gov't intrusion into our lives. One side wants things done one way, and the other wants it another way. More gov't / more laws = more conflict. If the gov't backed off and let us make our own decisions, we wouldn't have anything (or little) to bitch about. As Reagan said, "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."

[paulxu]

I've had a drink with MOR. He is a great supporter of Xavier and our Musketeers.
I couldn't disagree with the policies he supports more. That's the nature of politics.

In a time of economic challenge, the party in power is often kicked out, whether or not they are responsible/can do anything. That's the nature of our system.
We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions.
People are prone to ignore facts when it suits their purpose. For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake) and it is a global product, often subject to forces outside our country.
We are in a perfect example of that place. We are still a net exporter of petroleum products...that hasn't changed in the last year, whatever Biden has done.
On the global market we still import a lot of foreign oil...it's different than shale and better for some products. That hasn't changed.
Unfortunately, Saudi has not increased production, and our facilities are slow coming back after the pandemic. Nothing Biden has done has affected that.
There are leases to use, and perhaps now will be used with the price per barrel. If the 2nd Keystone was still on line, it would be no where near being completed to be of any benefit.
So far, and yes it might change, there is no supply problem as we experienced decades ago.
So oil companies are free to make record profits and buy back their shares. But we want to blame politicians.
Democratic proposals to address this are filibustered.

That's just one example. There are many. I expect Biden and his decisions to be criticized: that's what people who oppose his should do.
Just like I did for Trump's policies. I think, as many, that his time in office was incredibly destructive to our country, and we continue to be at peril for the forces he unleashed. 2/3rds of Republicans still believe the big lie.
That will continue to tear our country apart. We have never before had a disruption in the peaceful transfer of power until last year. I don't think people fully appreciate that, and probably won't for a long time.

So, I'll try to support my opinions with facts...and feel confident that Biden's opposition on this board will continue to disagree with him, the Democrats, and their policies. I hope their opinions are also grounded in facts.

Brew, I share your frustration that the Democrats haven't done more to bring their polices to fruition. Many of them even get bi-partisan support but die in the black hole of the Senate filibuster. As to them controlling all 3 branches of government as you indicated...I'm pretty sure the current make up of one of our 3 branches (the highest court) is decidedly Conservative.

[Masterofreality]

I've had a drink with MOR. He is a great supporter of Xavier and our Musketeers.
I couldn't disagree with the policies he supports more. That's the nature of politics.

In a time of economic challenge, the party in power is often kicked out, whether or not they are responsible/can do anything. That's the nature of our system.
We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions.
People are prone to ignore facts when it suits their purpose. For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake) and it is a global product, often subject to forces outside our country.
We are in a perfect example of that place. We are still a net exporter of petroleum products...that hasn't changed in the last year, whatever Biden has done.
On the global market we still import a lot of foreign oil...it's different than shale and better for some products. That hasn't changed.
Unfortunately, Saudi has not increased production, and our facilities are slow coming back after the pandemic. Nothing Biden has done has affected that.
There are leases to use, and perhaps now will be used with the price per barrel. If the 2nd Keystone was still on line, it would be no where near being completed to be of any benefit.
So far, and yes it might change, there is no supply problem as we experienced decades ago.
So oil companies are free to make record profits and buy back their shares. But we want to blame politicians.
Democratic proposals to address this are filibustered.

That's just one example. There are many. I expect Biden and his decisions to be criticized: that's what people who oppose his should do.
Just like I did for Trump's policies. I think, as many, that his time in office was incredibly destructive to our country, and we continue to be at peril for the forces he unleashed. 2/3rds of Republicans still believe the big lie.
That will continue to tear our country apart. We have never before had a disruption in the peaceful transfer of power until last year. I don't think people fully appreciate that, and probably won't for a long time.

So, I'll try to support my opinions with facts...and feel confident that Biden's opposition on this board will continue to disagree with him, the Democrats, and their policies. I hope their opinions are also grounded in facts.

Brew, I share your frustration that the Democrats haven't done more to bring their polices to fruition. Many of them even get bi-partisan support but die in the black hole of the Senate filibuster. As to them controlling all 3 branches of government as you indicated...I'm pretty sure the current make up of one of our 3 branches (the highest court) is decidedly Conservative.

I would love to have a drink with Paul again, so I can totally refute his political idiocy in person and maybe even turn his twisted mind straight.
“The Filibuster is a roadblock”
Exactly why the Founding Fathers put it in. To rid the Legislature of it is a fundamental blow to the system.
How well did it work when Harry Ried broke precendent on Judicial Appointment Filibuster? Welp, it gave the majority party-Republicans-3 Supreme Court Justices. You probably do not want to go down that road to utter chaos on Bills.
How much more radical, and not respectful of US systems can someone be? Right to my point.

As to Paul’s citing of “facts”. Huh. Biden has discouraged domestic energy production ever since the pre election debates: To wit:
-Joe Biden tweet: 3/15/20:
We have to treat climate change like the existential threat it is. As president, I will:

- End subsidies for fossil fuel corporations
- Ban new drilling on federal lands & waters
- Hold oil executives accountable

-Joe Biden in 2020 debates: "No more subsidies for the fossil fuel industry. No more drilling including offshore. No ability for the oil industry to continue to drill period. It ends."
After election Biden issued his EO 13990, , which was the arrow he shot directly at the oil and gas industry on his first day in office.

-Then Biden called Saudi Arabia a “Pariah State” and tried to kow tow to a true Pariah State- Iran. Now he’s begging the Saudis to bail him out of his self created mess. As we’ve said, it is, at least, a 15 -20 year process to transition power & fuel systems. Biden radically tried to do it in 2 years totally unprepared. The transition was already in the works before & under Trump. How do you think that Ford & Tesla have been able to introduce new electric vehicles in the last couple of years? But the Infrastructure is not in place and won’t be.
Biden totally screwed this up as he would have even more with his stupid BBB plan. Thank Gawd for Joe Manchin who saved even more inflation. Even the last stimulus plan was too big because it contained $375 million to state & local governments to bail them out.
Paul has proven himself to be a radical extremist in this post. Not “reasonable” or “respectful”. Push back is required.

[XU_Lou]

I've had a drink with MOR. He is a great supporter of Xavier and our Musketeers.
I couldn't disagree with the policies he supports more. That's the nature of politics.

In a time of economic challenge, the party in power is often kicked out, whether or not they are responsible/can do anything. That's the nature of our system.
We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions.
People are prone to ignore facts when it suits their purpose. For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake) and it is a global product, often subject to forces outside our country.
We are in a perfect example of that place. We are still a net exporter of petroleum products...that hasn't changed in the last year, whatever Biden has done.
On the global market we still import a lot of foreign oil...it's different than shale and better for some products. That hasn't changed.
Unfortunately, Saudi has not increased production, and our facilities are slow coming back after the pandemic. Nothing Biden has done has affected that.
There are leases to use, and perhaps now will be used with the price per barrel. If the 2nd Keystone was still on line, it would be no where near being completed to be of any benefit.
So far, and yes it might change, there is no supply problem as we experienced decades ago.
So oil companies are free to make record profits and buy back their shares. But we want to blame politicians.
Democratic proposals to address this are filibustered.

That's just one example. There are many. I expect Biden and his decisions to be criticized: that's what people who oppose his should do.
Just like I did for Trump's policies. I think, as many, that his time in office was incredibly destructive to our country, and we continue to be at peril for the forces he unleashed. 2/3rds of Republicans still believe the big lie.
That will continue to tear our country apart. We have never before had a disruption in the peaceful transfer of power until last year. I don't think people fully appreciate that, and probably won't for a long time.

So, I'll try to support my opinions with facts...and feel confident that Biden's opposition on this board will continue to disagree with him, the Democrats, and their policies. I hope their opinions are also grounded in facts.

Brew, I share your frustration that the Democrats haven't done more to bring their polices to fruition. Many of them even get bi-partisan support but die in the black hole of the Senate filibuster. As to them controlling all 3 branches of government as you indicated...I'm pretty sure the current make up of one of our 3 branches (the highest court) is decidedly Conservative.


"We (both sides) are unable to recognize the impact of something like the filibuster as a roadblock to solutions."

- you understand why the filibuster exists, right? To prevent one side from ramming down their policies on the rest of the country. It's an extremely important aspect of our system that prevents the citizens from being whipsawed from one side's policies to the other. Do you really want the filibuster removed when the Republicans takeover???



"For example: the Democrats have long pushed for policies that take us away from fossil fuels eventually. Why? Simple...there's a finite supply (so for our grandchildren's sake)"

- yes, the supply is finite, but it will last far longer than just two generations. Just in the US alone we have hundreds of years worth of oil and gas. The problem is that the Dems are moving way too fast on this before we're ready - thus your policies are causing harm to the poor and middle class through higher prices, while also raising the threats of widespread blackouts this summer. The Democrats are completely irrational on solving this problem (if you thinks it's a problem, which I don't -- bring on LNG and nuclear to solve global warming - that will also make electric cars more viable)

[paulxu]

As to Paul’s citing of “facts”. Huh. Biden has discouraged domestic energy production ever since the pre election debates: To wit:
-Joe Biden tweet: 3/15/20:
We have to treat climate change like the existential threat it is. As president, I will:

- End subsidies for fossil fuel corporations
- Ban new drilling on federal lands & waters
- Hold oil executives accountable-

Biden's has NOT discouraged "domestic energy production." He has been very supportive of alternative energy solutions to fossil fuels.
As to his tweet:
1 - oil companies don't need the continuance of decades long subsidies when they are making record profits every year. Why use our taxpayer dollars to subsidize them? That doesn't seem very reasonable
2 - as for banning more drilling on federal land...there are 9000 existing federal leases unused. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to use those that can be productive first?
3 - perhaps there are some oil executives (like the robber barons of old) who should be held accountable for price gouging. That seem at least reasonable enough to consider in the face of recent pricing/profit realities

As to the price of gas, it'll cost the Dems in November. Curiously enough, adjusted for inflation, we have seen this price before.
And if I see you at Dana's, the first round is on me:

https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Inflation-Adj-Gasoline-Prices-June-2022a.png?ezimgfmt=ng:webp/ngcb1

[XU_Lou]

From Kiplinger:

"First, blame the COVID-19 pandemic, which threw oil markets severely out of whack two years ago. They still haven’t fully recovered from the damage the virus inflicted.

When COVID first hit, it put a deep dent in global oil demand as many normal activities shut down and millions of people who usually drive to work stayed home. As a result, crude oil prices plunged. In fact, at one point in April 2020, benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude prices actually fell below $0 – something that would normally seem impossible.

With oil demand so weak due to COVID-19 restrictions, places to store unwanted crude filled up, and traders in oil futures scrambled to unload their positions in crude. Eventually, some had to pay buyers to take future oil deliveries off their hands.

Negative prices didn’t last long, but oil stayed very cheap for much of 2020. That led energy companies and major oil exporting countries in OPEC to slash their production because no one wanted to give away barrels of oil at such rock-bottom prices.

Since then, the world has slowly gotten through the pandemic, and oil demand has come roaring back, especially in the U.S. Unsurprisingly, consumers who missed out on travel and other normal activities in 2020 and 2021 are making up for lost time now. U.S. oil demand is about back to where it was pre-COVID. But oil production takes a lot longer to restart than oil consumption.

Idled wells can’t be easily restarted. Drilling new wells takes time. And oil producers have been cautious about opening the taps quickly, lest a new price drop burn them again. Here in the U.S., oil output has only partially recovered from its 2020 drop. OPEC and its partner nations are only gradually restoring the exports they took off the market during the worst of the pandemic."

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/spending/604644/why-are-gas-prices-still-going-up

Again, this is another manmade disaster, mostly at the hands of Democrats who pushed for lockdowns (I Know there were Republicans guilty of this, but it was mostly Dems who lockdowned their states too hard, and for far too long). High gas prices, inflation, looming food shortages, and persistent supply chain issues are all a direct result of the ridiculous response to Covid. It will go down as one of the greatest mistakes ever made by leaders across the globe.

[Muskie in dayton]

It's happening because of people like you who are susceptible to the appeals of the polarizing political and media complex. Find people with views opposite to yours and talk to them. If anyone thinks that one side versus the other is more to blame for any issue in the country, they are part of the problem.
So, like like we do on this thread? The problem, I believe, is much more related to the rhetoric and gaslighting used in discussion. Calling someone a “tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist” for presenting info contrary to the mainstream narrative. That not only lends nothing to a debate, it is also an attempt to delegitimize a the person’s creditability. Similarly, categorizing information as “misinformation” and calling for censorship creates furthers division. Also kind of like we do on this thread.

On the topic of censorship, remember that misinform does not need to be censored, as it can easily be refuted with facts. Only facts need to be censored, as they cannot be refuted.

[Muskie in dayton]

I'm not just referring to suppression of fossil fuels/energy policy, I'm referring to everything that's going on: rampant crime as a result of Democrat DAs refusing to prosecute, rampant spending resulting in inflation, looming food shortages, supply chain destruction, inciting a totally avoidable war with Russia, Covid lockdowns and mitigation efforts that haven't worked, transgender mania and the sexual grooming of kids, a two-tiered justice system, a wide open border and illegal alien invasion....

----- the list goes on and on - that's at the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others.

What is the purpose of all this? Why is this happening?
It is truly beyond comprehension. I’m honestly starting to believe the Biden Admin just wants to destroy America. There is no other reason they can justify the policy decisions they make. It is like their goal is to continue a scorched approach for 2 years and have no concerns about re-election. Scary.

[Masterofreality]

Biden's has NOT discouraged "domestic energy production." He has been very supportive of alternative energy solutions to fossil fuels.
As to his tweet:
1 - oil companies don't need the continuance of decades long subsidies when they are making record profits every year. Why use our taxpayer dollars to subsidize them? That doesn't seem very reasonable
2 - as for banning more drilling on federal land...there are 9000 existing federal leases unused. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to use those that can be productive first?
3 - perhaps there are some oil executives (like the robber barons of old) who should be held accountable for price gouging. That seem at least reasonable enough to consider in the face of recent pricing/profit realities

As to the price of gas, it'll cost the Dems in November. Curiously enough, adjusted for inflation, we have seen this price before.
And if I see you at Dana's, the first round is on me:

https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Inflation-Adj-Gasoline-Prices-June-2022a.png?ezimgfmt=ng:webp/ngcb1

“Price gouging” is not a fact but an out and out lie. Biden has totally discouraged the domestic energy system in this country as we know it. and he embarrassed the Saudis, who could have been a backstop, who have been working with Israel on reapproachment and Middle East peace deals.
Exploration for energy is risky, hence the subsidies. How come we aren’t more all in on nuclear? Because that isn’t an “approved” clean energy source per progressives like Paul.
As to the “9,000 unused leases” on Federal lands, I refer you to this “fact check” :

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/oil-permits-9000-unused-fact-check/536-2a657e09-856b-436c-a55d-df1cdf2acb3f

And also this. Biden’s attempt to blame oil companies for the unused leases are a red herring.
https://www.iwf.org/2022/03/31/fact-check-is-the-oil-gas-industry-to-blame-for-unused-leases/

Biden’s regulatory bullshit has made it more difficult to start and held up many of the chances to drill. He caused this by his EO’s.

How many times does it have to be said that this was an abomination of planning…just like the Afghanistan embarrassment and the handling of the border among other things.
By the way, from Paul’s favorite site Politifact:
“ Record oil company profits followed losses
Oil companies did announce record breaking profits earlier this year.
Exxon Mobil made $23 billion in profit for 2021. But that came after suffering $22.4 billion in losses the previous year because of the pandemic-fueled economic downturn. The New York Times reported the company's profit was the highest it had been since 2014.
Chevron also experienced its most profitable year since 2014, with the company reporting in January that it made $15.6 billion in revenue for 2021, according to the Wall Street Journal. That followed a loss of $5.5 billion in 2020.” and on and on.

Paul is a fountain of deference , half of the story truths and bullshit.

[Xville]

So, like like we do on this thread? The problem, I believe, is much more related to the rhetoric and gaslighting used in discussion. Calling someone a “tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist” for presenting info contrary to the mainstream narrative. That not only lends nothing to a debate, it is also an attempt to delegitimize a the person’s creditability. Similarly, categorizing information as “misinformation” and calling for censorship creates furthers division. Also kind of like we do on this thread.

On the topic of censorship, remember that misinform does not need to be censored, as it can easily be refuted with facts. Only facts need to be censored, as they cannot be refuted.

Posting links that are nonsense and presenting them as facts is what causes division. There are far too many on here that like to believe everything they read on the internet is true——as long as it coincides with their particular beliefs on a subject.

[X-band '01]

I think MOR is a little over the top, but having said that people have a right to be frustrated. DEMOCRATS have a right to be frustrated!! They SHOULD be frustrated! They have control over all three branches of government, they got there in large part because of the vision they sold. Well...the current reality doesn't match the vision. So...people should be pissed!!

Democrats are big on selling a vision and small on actually delivering on it. That's how I feel. And...I'm kinda tired of it. They're good at rallying around something that they think is unfair, or wrong, or some sort of social injustice and gaining votes to win elections. They suck once they're elected. I'm going to have a hard time voting for very many Democrats this next time around.

They have what we call the "AOC trifecta" of the White House/US House/Senate (albeit a 50/50 split), but the Judicial Branch is very deep in the Republican pockets. Not just the Supreme Court, but Courts of Appeals and just about every federal level of courts has a heavy percentage of Trump appointees because one of the major points of emphasis of Trump's presidency was pushing through nominees as long as he and Mitch McConnell were rubber-stamping nominees.

If Trump or DeSantis (or someone else in the GOP) gets the keys to the White House in 2024, you can bet the farm they'll do everything in their power to convince Clarence Thomas to retire by then if they get the keys back to the Senate by then. John Roberts and Samuel Alito will also be creeping close to two decades of service, so that will offer a litle bit of a long-term outlook at least as far as the Supreme Court is concerned.

As for 2022, we could still see a 50/50 Senate even while the House is likely to flip red. Democrats have to defend seats in Georgia, Arizona and even Nevada won't be easy. The GOP has to defend Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and even Ohio is not a complete gimmie.

[X-band '01]

Biden's has NOT discouraged "domestic energy production." He has been very supportive of alternative energy solutions to fossil fuels.
As to his tweet:
1 - oil companies don't need the continuance of decades long subsidies when they are making record profits every year. Why use our taxpayer dollars to subsidize them? That doesn't seem very reasonable
2 - as for banning more drilling on federal land...there are 9000 existing federal leases unused. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to use those that can be productive first?
3 - perhaps there are some oil executives (like the robber barons of old) who should be held accountable for price gouging. That seem at least reasonable enough to consider in the face of recent pricing/profit realities

As to the price of gas, it'll cost the Dems in November. Curiously enough, adjusted for inflation, we have seen this price before.
And if I see you at Dana's, the first round is on me:

https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Inflation-Adj-Gasoline-Prices-June-2022a.png?ezimgfmt=ng:webp/ngcb1

One of the things that the first infrastructure package included was a network of about 50,000 EV charging stations throughout the country. It'll take years to implement, but it will be a big deal for people that don't have access to a charging station at home, for example.

A lack of computer chips is also driving vehicle prices through the roof for both gas, electric and hybrids for example. That's another reason why the announcement of a new Intel plant opening in Ohio is a big deal (although again, this is years down the road). A lot of computer chips are made in China, but they've been badly shuttered b/c China is overaggressively trying out their zero-Covid policy.

[Masterofreality]

One of the things that the first infrastructure package included was a network of about 50,000 EV charging stations throughout the country. It'll take years to implement, but it will be a big deal for people that don't have access to a charging station at home, for example.

A lack of computer chips is also driving vehicle prices through the roof for both gas, electric and hybrids for example. That's another reason why the announcement of a new Intel plant opening in Ohio is a big deal (although again, this is years down the road). A lot of computer chips are made in China, but they've been badly shuttered b/c China is overaggressively trying out their zero-Covid policy.

Which, once again means that Biden is forcing iish to happen before it possibly can and is absolutely stupid policy.
Plus, ya gotta import the rare earth materials for batteries, and Computer chips too from….China, thereby doubling the idiocy.

[Muskie in dayton]

Posting links that are nonsense and presenting them as facts is what causes division. There are far too many on here that like to believe everything they read on the internet is true——as long as it coincides with their particular beliefs on a subject.
The opportunity is there to refute those links… if you can. I would love for you to try.

[Xville]

The opportunity is there to refute those links… if you can. I would love for you to try.

There is an opportunity for people to not post insane links and present them as fact. I’d like to see several people try that instead.

Pretty easy to refute insane links.. I’ll just go to the opposite view insane link and post that. There, done. Instead, we could just stop posting insane opinionated links.

[paulxu]

The top spreaders of misinformation in just a brief window of time. 49 million tweets:

https://techpolicy.press/researchers-release-comprehensive-twitter-dataset-of-false-claims-about-the-2020-election/

[XU_Lou]

There is an opportunity for people to not post insane links and present them as fact. I’d like to see several people try that instead.

Pretty easy to refute insane links.. I’ll just go to the opposite view insane link and post that. There, done. Instead, we could just stop posting insane opinionated links.

oooh, "insane links".... sounds ominous....

Well, we could always just go to Larry Hogan's website and get his opinion, because, you know, we can't think for ourselves...

[XU_Lou]

The opportunity is there to refute those links… if you can. I would love for you to try.

You're asking a lot!!!

[Xville]

oooh, "insane links".... sounds ominous....

Well, we could always just go to Larry Hogan's website and get his opinion, because, you know, we can't think for ourselves...

Lol you’re hilarious. Says the guy who is the Member of the Alex Berenson, gateway pundit and Breitbart fan club.

I used hogan as an example of the type of politician we need.. someone who is pragmatic and makes decisions based on reasoning, not looking up what the “platform” is and then regurgitating it. Something you are a huge fan of.

[XU_Lou]

Lol you’re hilarious. Says the guy who is the Member of the Alex Berenson, gateway pundit and Breitbart fan club.

Wow, have you been working on that one for a couple of days!?! You gotta love your originality!

[XU_Lou]

I used hogan as an example of the type of politician we need.. someone who is pragmatic and makes decisions based on reasoning, not looking up what the “platform” is and then regurgitating it. Something you are a huge fan of.

You mean, YOUR platform, right?

Edit: What a total and complete sanctimonious phoney.... oh yeah, you and your milquetoast hero's opinions are all so impartial and magnanimous...

[Masterofreality]

The top spreaders of misinformation in just a brief window of time. 49 million tweets:

https://techpolicy.press/researchers-release-comprehensive-twitter-dataset-of-false-claims-about-the-2020-election/

Remaining fixated on an event…that is over…from almost 2 years ago while the country burns from the guy who was “elected”.
Typical head in the sand idiocy.
By the way, when will Stacy Abrams admit that she lost the Georgia Gubernatorial election?

[bjf123]

2 - as for banning more drilling on federal land...there are 9000 existing federal leases unused. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to use those that can be productive first?
3 - perhaps there are some oil executives (like the robber barons of old) who should be held accountable for price gouging. That seem at least reasonable enough to consider in the face of recent pricing/profit realities


2 - I could be wrong, but it’s my understanding that even if you have a lease, you still need a permit to drill and the Biden administration has effectively stopped issuing those. If they do issue them, it takes a LONG time to actually get them.
3 - We’ve seen this play before. Congress has called the oil company CEO’s to testify a number of times when prices have risen quickly, accusing them of “price gouging”. What happened every time? Not a damned thing, because they’re not gouging. All it does is prove that Congress is clueless about supply and demand, and how businesses actually function.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Xville]

The top spreaders of misinformation in just a brief window of time. 49 million tweets:

https://techpolicy.press/researchers-release-comprehensive-twitter-dataset-of-false-claims-about-the-2020-election/

Why are you so obsessed with trump?

[XU_Lou]

From Saleha Mohsin of Bloomberg News:

"Some Biden officials privately express concern that rather than dissuade the Kremlin as intended, US sanctions have instead exacerbated inflation, worsened food insecurity and punished ordinary Russians more than Putin or his allies"


(Bloomberg) -- The US government is quietly encouraging agricultural and shipping companies to buy and carry more Russian fertilizer, according to people familiar with the efforts, as sanctions fears have led to a sharp drop in supplies, fueling spiraling global food costs.


Meanwhile, the Ruble has strengthened significantly against the dollar. Wasn't it supposed to do the opposite?


What a total cluster....



https://twitter.com/SalehaMohsin/status/1536797238340603904

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-quietly-urges-russia-fertilizer-161813278.html

https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/RUB-USD-exchange-rate-history.html

[Masterofreality]

2 - I could be wrong, but it’s my understanding that even if you have a lease, you still need a permit to drill and the Biden administration has effectively stopped issuing those. If they do issue them, it takes a LONG time to actually get them.
3 - We’ve seen this play before. Congress has called the oil company CEO’s to testify a number of times when prices have risen quickly, accusing them of “price gouging”. What happened every time? Not a damned thing, because they’re not gouging. All it does is prove that Congress is clueless about supply and demand, and how businesses actually function.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This!! ^^^^^^

[paulxu]

Why are you so obsessed with trump?

I'm just trying to understand how the majority of a major political party believes a lie.
Technically it's fascinating. And yes, it has consequences.
But the pure ability to convince millions of people in a lie, is quite a feat.
Massive exposure through twitter and the media from a select number of sources seems to be one answer.

[Xville]

I'm just trying to understand how the majority of a major political party believes a lie.
Technically it's fascinating. And yes, it has consequences.
But the pure ability to convince millions of people in a lie, is quite a feat.
Massive exposure through twitter and the media from a select number of sources seems to be one answer.

That’s where stats can say whatever one wants then to say and why I think these types of polls are mostly crap. I highly doubt the majority of republicans believe this and this is an example into what caf was saying in his post. These type of things are thrown out for clicks, and thus further consumption of polarizing one sided nonsense that causes more division in this country.

[Strange Brew]

I'm just trying to understand how the majority of a major political party believes a lie.
Technically it's fascinating. And yes, it has consequences.
But the pure ability to convince millions of people in a lie, is quite a feat.
Massive exposure through twitter and the media from a select number of sources seems to be one answer.

Many of us felt the same about the Russian collusion lie but we’re past it.

[XU_Lou]

That’s where stats can say whatever one wants then to say and why I think these types of polls are mostly crap. I highly doubt the majority of republicans believe this and this is an example into what caf was saying in his post. These type of things are thrown out for clicks, and thus further consumption of polarizing one sided nonsense that causes more division in this country.

Okay everybody, I guess it's time to shut this thread down. Ville has had enough of this foolishness. We're apparently not allowed to have opinions here, nor discuss any issues, nor cite any unapproved media sources or politicians. Apparently truth doesn't exist (unless of course Larry Hogan makes some type of utterance) - it's all gray, therefore not worthy of debate.

We're so sorry Ville, for upsetting you, and wasting your time.

[Xville]

Okay everybody, I guess it's time to shut this thread down. Ville has had enough of this foolishness. We're apparently not allowed to have opinions here, nor discuss any issues, nor cite any unapproved media sources or politicians. Apparently truth doesn't exist (unless of course Larry Hogan makes some type of utterance) - it's all gray, therefore not worthy of debate.

We're so sorry Ville, for upsetting you, and wasting your time.

Sorry to trigger you, hope you feel better

[paulxu]

That’s where stats can say whatever one wants then to say and why I think these types of polls are mostly crap. I highly doubt the majority of republicans believe this and this is an example into what caf was saying in his post. These type of things are thrown out for clicks, and thus further consumption of polarizing one sided nonsense that causes more division in this country.

I was noting the technical reality of millions of tweets of misinformation. In the real world they unfortunately have consequences.
For example in Nevada on Tuesday:

Nevada Republicans’ nominee to be the state’s next top e4lection officials thinks Donald Trump won the 2020 election and says he would not have certified Joe Biden’s victory in the state, even though the Democrat won with more than a 2% margin.

Marchant was on hand for the signing of a slate of fake Trump electors in 2020, and later told The Guardian that he would support another slate of presidential electors contrary to the actual presidential election results in 2024: “That is very possible, yes,” Marchant said.
Can you imagine the mess in '24 if real results aren't certified, and fake electors are put forth the way it was tried in '20?

[Smails]

Many of us felt the same about the Russian collusion lie but we’re past it.

Yes, it's called being a grown up.

[Smails]

I was noting the technical reality of millions of tweets of misinformation. In the real world they unfortunately have consequences.
For example in Nevada on Tuesday:


LOL..you realize that twitter is not the real world , right?. I don't think you do. 21% of US adults use twitter..of that 21%, the top 25% make 98% of the tweets.

[Masterofreality]

LOL..you realize that twitter is not the real world , right?. I don't think you do. 21% of US adults use twitter..of that 21%, the top 25% make 98% of the tweets.

That’s a big problem with this White House. They actually think that Twitter is the real world and GOVERN by it.
Whenever there is an Adminstration screw up- which happens almost daily- Ron Klain, and Psaki before she left, just Tweets through it.
Those tweets don’t age well.

[Masterofreality]

A response to the bullshit that oil companies are price gouging and not drilling.

https://cnsnews.com/index.php/article/national/susan-jones/biden-writes-us-oil-executives-urging-immediate-action-increase-supply

“ Forbes magazine reporter David Blackmon asked ExxonMobil for a response to Biden's criticism and received this reply:

"We have been in regular contact with the administration, informing them of our planned investments to increase production and expand refining capacity in the United States.

We increased production in the Permian Basin by 70%, or 190,000 barrels per day, between 2019 and 2021. We expect to increase production from the Permian by another 25% this year. We’re spending 50% more in capital expenditures in the Permian in 2022 vs 2021 and are increasing refining capacity to process U.S. light crude by about 250,000 barrels per day – which is the equivalent of adding a new medium sized refinery.

"We reported losses of more than $20 billion in 2020, and we borrowed more than $30 billion in 2019 and 2020 to support our investments in production around the world. In 2021, total taxes on the company’s income statement were $40.6 billion, an increase of $17.8 billion from 2020."

[Xuperman]

Nice post MOR! That has to be factual and blows up any "gouging" BS. Again, Paul is just parroting the Political "shell game" perpetrated by the propaganda arm of the Democrat Party.....the MSM.

Here's something I believe to be factual, or at least the way I understand it.

The Feds issue leases, then the Oil Companies apply for the leases that have good profit possibilities. They then send in their team of experts to determine if crude, is in fact, there AND IF there is enough to make a profit.....because obviously it is very expensive to start up drilling on untouched land.

If it is deemed to be a "Go" and a high chance for profitability, the Drilling Permits are applied for.

Problem is, those permits can always be denied AND Biden and his party are operating on the Obama Doctrine fossil fuel agenda. I am guessing any NEW Leases approved by this Administration is on lands that are known to be void of any significant amounts of Crude. That is why the Oil Companies are asking for more NEW leases in specific areas known to contain large amounts of crude.

The game that is being played here is that Biden says NO to these requests, and points to the "9000" existing leases available. When the Oil Companies balk for the above reasons, he's able to tell the American people they refuse to drill.

[Masterofreality]

Nice post MOR! That has to be factual and blows up any "gouging" BS. Again, Paul is just parroting the Political "shell game" perpetrated by the propaganda arm of the Democrat Party.....the MSM.

Here's something I believe to be factual, or at least the way I understand it.

The Feds issue leases, then the Oil Companies apply for the leases that have a good possibility profitability. They then send in their team of experts to determine if crude, is in fact, there AND IF there is enough to make a profit.....because obviously it is very expensive to start up drilling on untouched land.

If it is deemed to be a "Go" and a high chance for profitability, the Drilling Permits are applied for.

Problem is, Biden and his party are operating on the Obama Doctrine fossil fuel agenda. I am guessing any NEW Leases approved by this Administration is on lands that are known to be void of any significant amounts of Crude. That is why the Oil Companies are asking for more NEW leases in specific areas known to contain large amounts of crude.

The game that is being played here is that Biden says NO to these requests, and points to the "9000" existing leases available. When the Oil Companies balk for the above reasons, he's able to tell the American people they refuse to drill.

Truth Xuper. Thanks for the amplification!
All those lands are not necessarily abundant with crude, or easy to extract.

And there’s this too:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/02/24/biden-administration-pausing-new-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html

“ The Biden administration is delaying decisions on new oil and gas leases and permits after a Louisiana federal judge blocked officials from using higher cost estimates of climate change when making rules for polluting industries.

The leasing pause is an unintended result of the Feb. 11 decision by U.S. District Judge James Cain, who sided with a group GOP-led states and argued that the Biden administration's attempt to raise the real cost of climate change would hike energy costs and hurt state revenues from energy production.”

[Xuperman]

Truth Xuper.
All those lands are not necessarily abundant with crude, or easy to extract.

Right, and I will elaborate on my suspicions.

"Necessarily abundant"? Why would Biden issue ANY NEW LEASES that had any chance of having an abundant amount of crude? He, and especially the GND cultist that have him by the nuts, DO NOT want this stuff coming out of the ground....period.

Let Saudi Arabia do the dirty work, so these Green wackos can continue to cram " alternative energy viability" down our throats. They simply can not be Pro-Domestic drilling and propagate this lunacy at the same time!

[XU_Lou]

From Kiplinger:

"First, blame the COVID-19 pandemic, which threw oil markets severely out of whack two years ago. They still haven’t fully recovered from the damage the virus inflicted.

When COVID first hit, it put a deep dent in global oil demand as many normal activities shut down and millions of people who usually drive to work stayed home. As a result, crude oil prices plunged. In fact, at one point in April 2020, benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude prices actually fell below $0 – something that would normally seem impossible.

With oil demand so weak due to COVID-19 restrictions, places to store unwanted crude filled up, and traders in oil futures scrambled to unload their positions in crude. Eventually, some had to pay buyers to take future oil deliveries off their hands.

Negative prices didn’t last long, but oil stayed very cheap for much of 2020. That led energy companies and major oil exporting countries in OPEC to slash their production because no one wanted to give away barrels of oil at such rock-bottom prices.

Since then, the world has slowly gotten through the pandemic, and oil demand has come roaring back, especially in the U.S. Unsurprisingly, consumers who missed out on travel and other normal activities in 2020 and 2021 are making up for lost time now. U.S. oil demand is about back to where it was pre-COVID. But oil production takes a lot longer to restart than oil consumption.

Idled wells can’t be easily restarted. Drilling new wells takes time. And oil producers have been cautious about opening the taps quickly, lest a new price drop burn them again. Here in the U.S., oil output has only partially recovered from its 2020 drop. OPEC and its partner nations are only gradually restoring the exports they took off the market during the worst of the pandemic."

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/spending/604644/why-are-gas-prices-still-going-up

Again, this is another manmade disaster, mostly at the hands of Democrats who pushed for lockdowns (I Know there were Republicans guilty of this, but it was mostly Dems who lockdowned their states too hard, and for far too long). High gas prices, inflation, looming food shortages, and persistent supply chain issues are all a direct result of the ridiculous response to Covid. It will go down as one of the greatest mistakes ever made by leaders across the globe.


A response to the bullshit that oil companies are price gouging and not drilling.

https://cnsnews.com/index.php/article/national/susan-jones/biden-writes-us-oil-executives-urging-immediate-action-increase-supply

“ Forbes magazine reporter David Blackmon asked ExxonMobil for a response to Biden's criticism and received this reply:

"We have been in regular contact with the administration, informing them of our planned investments to increase production and expand refining capacity in the United States.

We increased production in the Permian Basin by 70%, or 190,000 barrels per day, between 2019 and 2021. We expect to increase production from the Permian by another 25% this year. We’re spending 50% more in capital expenditures in the Permian in 2022 vs 2021 and are increasing refining capacity to process U.S. light crude by about 250,000 barrels per day – which is the equivalent of adding a new medium sized refinery.

"We reported losses of more than $20 billion in 2020, and we borrowed more than $30 billion in 2019 and 2020 to support our investments in production around the world. In 2021, total taxes on the company’s income statement were $40.6 billion, an increase of $17.8 billion from 2020."


Nice post MOR! That has to be factual and blows up any "gouging" BS. Again, Paul is just parroting the Political "shell game" perpetrated by the propaganda arm of the Democrat Party.....the MSM.

Here's something I believe to be factual, or at least the way I understand it.

The Feds issue leases, then the Oil Companies apply for the leases that have good profit possibilities. They then send in their team of experts to determine if crude, is in fact, there AND IF there is enough to make a profit.....because obviously it is very expensive to start up drilling on untouched land.

If it is deemed to be a "Go" and a high chance for profitability, the Drilling Permits are applied for.

Problem is, those permits can always be denied AND Biden and his party are operating on the Obama Doctrine fossil fuel agenda. I am guessing any NEW Leases approved by this Administration is on lands that are known to be void of any significant amounts of Crude. That is why the Oil Companies are asking for more NEW leases in specific areas known to contain large amounts of crude.

The game that is being played here is that Biden says NO to these requests, and points to the "9000" existing leases available. When the Oil Companies balk for the above reasons, he's able to tell the American people they refuse to drill.


Truth Xuper. Thanks for the amplification!
All those lands are not necessarily abundant with crude, or easy to extract.

And there’s this too:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/02/24/biden-administration-pausing-new-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html

“ The Biden administration is delaying decisions on new oil and gas leases and permits after a Louisiana federal judge blocked officials from using higher cost estimates of climate change when making rules for polluting industries.

The leasing pause is an unintended result of the Feb. 11 decision by U.S. District Judge James Cain, who sided with a group GOP-led states and argued that the Biden administration's attempt to raise the real cost of climate change would hike energy costs and hurt state revenues from energy production.”

Will Paul recognize any of this, or will he ignore for a few days, and then come back and start with the gaslighting talking points once again?

[Masterofreality]

LOL..you realize that twitter is not the real world , right?. I don't think you do. 21% of US adults use twitter..of that 21%, the top 25% make 98% of the tweets.


That’s a big problem with this White House. They actually think that Twitter is the real world and GOVERN by it.
Whenever there is an Adminstration screw up- which happens almost daily- Ron Klain, and Psaki before she left, just Tweets through it.
Those tweets don’t age well.

Example:
The Biden regime marches to the tune of Twitter optics, thanks to the way-too-online tendencies of White House chief of staff Ron Klain and former press secretary Jen Psaki. They're getting DHS to punish border agents over a hoax. No agent “whipped” any illegals. It has been confirmed. But Biden is disciplining them anyway. Great job Brandon!!

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/governed-twitter-border-patrol-fake-whipping/

[paulxu]

"We reported losses of more than $20 billion in 2020, and we borrowed more than $30 billion in 2019 and 2020 to support our investments in production around the world. In 2021, total taxes on the company’s income statement were $40.6 billion, an increase of $17.8 billion from 2020."[/B]

I'm not going to feel sorry for the oil companies.
Can't find the 2021 total taxes of 40 billion on their statements. Their statements show $7.6 billion in taxes. However, on 280 billion in sales, 40 would only be 14%.
In the year they show a loss of $20 billion, they also have an "unusual" charge of $25 billion. Can't find an explanation for that so far.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/XOM/financials/annual/income-statement

[noteggs]

After watching about 15 minutes of the J6 hearings (OK guess I care a little), does anyone know when the defense will get their turn. Now I know why we have the justice system we have.

[paulxu]

When they stop refusing invitations to appear, and/or ignoring subpoenas?

I feel confident that any of them would get the chance to speak before the committee if they wanted to really do so.

[Strange Brew]

When they stop refusing invitations to appear, and/or ignoring subpoenas?

I feel confident that any of them would get the chance to speak before the committee if they wanted to really do so.

I think he means a defense team not the defendants. In this case that's the role of Cheney and Kissinger so no, there will be no other side presented.

[Masterofreality]

LOL..you realize that twitter is not the real world , right?. I don't think you do. 21% of US adults use twitter..of that 21%, the top 25% make 98% of the tweets.


I'm not going to feel sorry for the oil companies.
Can't find the 2021 total taxes of 40 billion on their statements. Their statements show $7.6 billion in taxes. However, on 280 billion in sales, 40 would only be 14%.
In the year they show a loss of $20 billion, they also have an "unusual" charge of $25 billion. Can't find an explanation for that so far.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/XOM/financials/annual/income-statement

Again, to refute Paul’s constant spraying of bull shit with a firehose, this from today’s Wall Street Journal:
” What do you know? President Biden has suddenly discovered that a refinery shortage is driving up fuel prices. Naturally, he’s blaming refiners, even as his Administration doubles down on the policies that created the shortage.

In a remarkable and threatening letter to oil and gas CEOs this week, Mr. Biden seems stunned to learn that prices rise when supply doesn’t meet demand. He’s aghast that gas prices are still rising above $5 a gallon even as oil prices have stabilized at $120 a barrel. Ergo, he says, the problem must be greedy oil companies making too much money.

At least he’s finally noticed the dearth of refining capacity to process crude, which some of us have warned about for years. The U.S. has lost about one million barrels a day of refining capacity in the pandemic. Some new refineries have opened in Asia, but the International Energy Agency recently reported that global capacity last year fell by 730,000 barrels a day.

A major culprit is U.S. government policy. Some older refineries have closed because companies couldn’t justify spending on upgrades as government forces a shift from fossil fuels. They also have to account for the Environmental Protection Agency’s tighter permitting requirements—the agency recently challenged a permit for an Indi*lana refinery—and steeper biofuel mandates. ”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-6-a-gallon-gasoline-next-gas-prices-refining-shortage-fossil-fuels-11654806637?st=tov3jh8im3r0ues&reflink=article_copyURL_share

The “unusual charges” are for EPA required refinery upgrades that are further designed to crimp fossil fuel production.
Stop the bull shit Paul. You are obviously lobbying for a Venenzuela like Nationalizing of the energy industry.
By the way, most of the energy company profits have come from natural gas sales, not gasoline and oil.

[paulxu]

Gotcha.
Not sure what the other side really would be. That the activities on Jan 6th and the planning that lead up to them are somehow OK?
I'm thinking that would be difficult. Some of the rioters are trying that strategy in federal court, but I don't think it's going so well.

[paulxu]

Wait...my posting of Exxon's profit statements from the Wall Street Journal is "spraying bullshit with a firehouse?"

Who knew.

Interesting about their unusual charge being a refinery upgrade required by the EPA. Would love a link to that.

[Strange Brew]

Gotcha.
Not sure what the other side really would be. That the activities on Jan 6th and the planning that lead up to them are somehow OK?
I'm thinking that would be difficult. Some of the rioters are trying that strategy in federal court, but I don't think it's going so well.

Whether the Guard request was denied.

Other than that I'd like to know what the Committee is actually trying to prove. It's really not clear.

[GoMuskies]

Wait...my posting of Exxon's profit statements from the Wall Street Journal is "spraying bullshit with a firehouse?"

Who knew.

Interesting about their unusual charge being a refinery upgrade required by the EPA. Would love a link to that.

The $7.6 million is income taxes. Look up a few lines to the $30.2 billion in other taxes and duties. The $7.6 on income taxes is on $31.2 of income, so 24.4%.

Here are the notes from the financials on the unusual charges:

"Mainly as a result of declines in prices for crude oil, natural gas and petroleum products and a significant decline in its market capitalization at the end of
the first quarter of 2020, the Corporation recognized before-tax goodwill impairment charges of $611 million in Upstream, Downstream, and Chemical
reporting units. Fair value of the goodwill reporting units primarily reflected market-based estimates of historical EBITDA multiples at the end of the first
quarter. Charges related to goodwill impairments in 2020 are included in “Depreciation and depletion” on the Consolidated Statement of Income"

"In 2020, as part of the Corporation's annual review and approval of its business and strategic plan, a decision was made to no longer develop a significant
portion of the dry gas portfolio in the U.S., Canada and Argentina. The impairment of these assets resulted in before-tax charges of $24.4 billion in
Upstream. Other before-tax impairment charges in 2020 included $0.9 billion in Upstream, $0.5 billion in Downstream, and $0.1 billion in Chemical. In
2019, before-tax impairment charges were $0.1 billion"

[paulxu]

So, the 25 billion unusual charge on their income statement, which resulted in a paper loss, was really from writing off the worthless goodwill value of assets on their books, not for "EPA required refinery upgrades that are further designed to crimp fossil fuel production."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2021/03/11/hidden-impairment-charges-in-exxon-mobils-earnings--other-findings-from-the-real-earnings-season/?sh=7c0ac3336980

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure I'd call them paper losses. Those were actual investments that were capitalized and were being written down to their current value. The $25 billion represented cash that actually left the building.

[Strange Brew]

I'm not sure I'd call them paper losses. Those were actual investments that were capitalized and were being written down to their current value. The $25 billion represented cash that actually left the building.

Quick question. Were the write downs because those investments lost value due to EPA required upgrades?

[GoMuskies]

Quick question. Were the write downs because those investments lost value due to EPA required upgrades?

Unlikely

[Strange Brew]

Unlikely

Thanks Go! Appreciate it.

Sometimes you know enough to ask the question but not enough to answer it. :)

[paulxu]

I'm not sure I'd call them paper losses. Those were actual investments that were capitalized and were being written down to their current value. The $25 billion represented cash that actually left the building.

Good point. Although the investment could have been years ago, certainly some depreciation benefits incurred, but no impact on cash flow in 2020 (I don't think). Maybe it even helped their 2020 tax situation; I don't understand this stuff enough to know.

[noteggs]

I think he means a defense team not the defendants. In this case that's the role of Cheney and Kissinger so no, there will be no other side presented.

This correct. Sarcasm goes unnoticed at times.

[Masterofreality]

Unlikely

But they were actual investments that were capitalized. $25 billion “left the building”
It cannot be 100% tracked that all of those investments went into required refinery upgrades, but to keep up with “Climate Change Required” moving targets, it is reasonable that money was invested in that vein. If you don't upgrade, you can't keep producing product. And then companies are forced to by these ludicrous rules that do nothing to help "the climate" but drive up costs.

Bottom line. Paul continues to spew Bullshit that the oil companies are sitting on piles of cash and gouging the public. Untrue

[Masterofreality]

Good point. Although the investment could have been years ago, certainly some depreciation benefits incurred, but no impact on cash flow in 2020 (I don't think). Maybe it even helped their 2020 tax situation; I don't understand this stuff enough to know.

"Could have been". "I don't think". "I don't understand this stuff to know."

Very convincing.

[paulxu]

You probably have extra cash lying around if you are buying back your own stock.

The Exxon write down was for dry gas assets they had purchased in the past, that exist in the lower 48 states. No mention of refineries, or refinery upgrades.

https://www.naturalgasintel.com/exxonmobil-retreats-on-spending-with-significant-natural-gas-development-off-the-table/

[Masterofreality]

You probably have extra cash lying around if you are buying back your own stock.

The Exxon write down was for dry gas assets they had purchased in the past, that exist in the lower 48 states. No mention of refineries, or refinery upgrades.

https://www.naturalgasintel.com/exxonmobil-retreats-on-spending-with-significant-natural-gas-development-off-the-table/

Hmmmm. That is a 100% scurrilous connection with that link. That proves nothing.
Check page 61 of Exxon’s 2021 Financial Report. The stock buy back is a red herring.
They spend in the Billions on yearly environmental infrastructure including and especially Refineries.
To wit:
” Throughout ExxonMobil’s businesses, new and ongoing measures are taken to prevent and minimize the impact of our operations on air, water and ground. These include a significant investment in refining infrastructure and technology to manufacture clean fuels, as well as projects to monitor and reduce nitrogen oxide, sulfur oxide and greenhouse gas emissions, and expenditures for asset retirement obligations. Using definitions and guidelines established by the American Petroleum Institute, ExxonMobil’s 2021 worldwide environmental expenditures for all such preventative and remediation steps, including ExxonMobil’s share of equity company expenditures, were $4.6 billion, of which $3.4 billion were included in expenses with the remainder in capital expenditures. The total cost for such activities is expected to increase to approximately $5.3 billion in 2022, with capital expenditures expected to account for approximately 30 percent of the total. Costs for 2023 are anticipated to be higher as the Low Carbon Solutions business matures and the Corporation progresses its emission-reduction plans.”

And Paul doesn’t think that any of this $4.6 billion is due to oppressive EPA regulations.
Wild.

[paulxu]

It's difficult to have these sorts of discussions.
I never said Exxon didn't spend money on meeting EPA regulations.
I never commented on any 4.6 billion dollar figure, for anything.

I noted they wrote off 25 billion, which proved to be for dry gas reserves that were overvalued on their books, NOT for refineries or anything connected to EPA regulations.

Why do you conflate these issues? It doesn't make sense. Exxon is buying back stock...a lot of stock. $30 billion in cash to buy it back is no "red herring."


Exxon began $30B in stock buybacks in 2022 (through 2023) thanks to its high profits, repurchasing $2.1B shares in the first three months of the year. This is a $20B increase from its estimate in December 2021

https://www.accountable.us/news/exxon-chevron-rake-in-over-12b-in-first-three-months-of-2022/

[Masterofreality]

It's difficult to have these sorts of discussions.
I never said Exxon didn't spend money on meeting EPA regulations.
I never commented on any 4.6 billion dollar figure, for anything.

I noted they wrote off 25 billion, which proved to be for dry gas reserves that were overvalued on their books, NOT for refineries or anything connected to EPA regulations.

Why do you conflate these issues? It doesn't make sense. Exxon is buying back stock...a lot of stock. $30 billion in cash to buy it back is no "red herring."



https://www.accountable.us/news/exxon-chevron-rake-in-over-12b-in-first-three-months-of-2022/

You cannot verify that. It’s scurrilous. It cannot be proved it was a write off for dry gas reserves. Go made it clear that it was “Actual Investments that were Capitalized” and that “capital that left the building” not write offs. I will pull the 2020 annual report. It may not all have been for refineries but some of it has to be.

Hey, don’t make trash accusations against a company that you say is “Price Gouging” and screwing the fuel supply with buy backs if the discussion is “Difficult to have.”
Typical lib. Stand there and throw stones and at American corporations who are being slandered and hindered by present governmental policy. Policy that CAUSED the current problems. But nah. Don’t admit that the Libs are responsible.

[paulxu]

You cannot verify that. It’s scurrilous. It cannot be proved it was a write off for dry gas reserves.

You think I just make this stuff up? Why don't you take it up with Exxon. Good grief.


Another action ExxonMobil is planning to take involves the removal of less strategic assets from its development plan as a result of the growing strength of its portfolio.

Assets removed include certain dry gas resources in the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana and Arkansas in the United States, and in western Canada and Argentina.

The decision will result in a non-cash, after-tax fourth-quarter impairment charge of approximately $17 billion to $20 billion.

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/exxonmobil-to-write-off-up-to-20-billion-of-assets-in-its-biggest-impairment-ever/

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump crazy his advisors say, but then 60% we already knew that :

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article262566032.html

[X-band '01]

Barry Loudermilk is going to have to answer a few awkward questions about a tour he was giving of the Capitol the day before (while the building was closed to the public due to Covid protocols).

That said, there have been threatening letters and calls made to his office once this revelation went public. It is equally inexcusable and repugnant.

[XU_Lou]

Barry Loudermilk is going to have to answer a few awkward questions about a tour he was giving of the Capitol the day before (while the building was closed to the public due to Covid protocols).


Why? Please tell me you're not falling for this BS.

[Masterofreality]

You think I just make this stuff up? Why don't you take it up with Exxon. Good grief.

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/exxonmobil-to-write-off-up-to-20-billion-of-assets-in-its-biggest-impairment-ever/

Yeah, you do make it up. You have only spewed BullShit trying to connect some “write off” of “Dry Gas resources” that aren’t even near the number. Good Grief, indeed!!
I don’t have to “Take it up with Exxon”. All I have to do is research their 2020 Annual Report.
Your numbers in whatever the hell you tried to cite don’t even equate to the “mystery” $25 billion. This does:
From the 2020 Exxon Annual report:
Page 64:
“ XON 2020 Annual Report: Page 64:
Impairment Assessment of Certain Upstream Property, Plant and Equipment, Net
…..the Corporation’s consolidated upstream property, plant and equipment (PP&E), net balance was $167.5 billion as of December 31, 2020, and related impairment expense for the year ended December 31, 2020 was $25.3 billion.”
Page 72(Explanation of Impairment):
“ Impairment Assessment. The Corporation tests assets or groups of assets for recoverability on an ongoing basis whenever events or changes in circumstances indicate that the carrying amounts may not be recoverable. Among the events or changes in circumstances which could indicate that the carrying value of an asset or asset group may not be recoverable are the following:
• a significant decrease in the market price of a long-lived asset;
• a significant adverse change in the extent or manner in which an asset is being used or in its physical condition including a
significant decrease in current and projected reserve volumes;
• a significant adverse change in legal factors or in the business climate that could affect the value, including an adverse action
or assessment by a regulator;
• an accumulation of project costs significantly in excess of the amount originally expected;
• a current-period operating loss combined with a history and forecast of operating or cash flow losses; and
• a current expectation that, more likely than not, a long-lived asset will be sold or otherwise disposed of significantly before
the end of its previously estimated useful life.”

Hey, I’m no accountant but It sure does look like “Plant and Equipment” was related to a $25 billion “impairment expense”.
I’ll admit that I cannot say that the $25 billion was necessarily used to “upgrade” the refineries, but it logical to say that Exxon, because of excess and oppressive EPA regulation caused them to have to spend $25 billion to either change or take those properties off line or take a charge for them which reduced capacity and crimped supply. See my post #13798 where the Wall Street Journal laid this out clearly. Plant & Equipment Paul!’
Interestingly enough, despite the charges leveled at them by this Adminstration, Exxon drilled more wells in the US in 2020 than they had in previous years. Ostensibly because Trump encouraged production. That number dropped precipitously in 2021 due, I suppose, to Biden’s opposition to issuing permits and the red tape to get through to get them.
1 well drilled in the US in 2021. Disgusting.

[Strange Brew]

You probably have extra cash lying around if you are buying back your own stock.

The Exxon write down was for dry gas assets they had purchased in the past, that exist in the lower 48 states. No mention of refineries, or refinery upgrades.

https://www.naturalgasintel.com/exxonmobil-retreats-on-spending-with-significant-natural-gas-development-off-the-table/

Pretty common thing to do buybacks Paul. Nothing nefarious to see here.

[paulxu]

Yeah, you do make it up. You have only spewed BullShit trying to connect some “write off” of “Dry Gas resources” that aren’t even near the number. Good Grief, indeed!!
I don’t have to “Take it up with Exxon”. All I have to do is research their 2020 Annual Report.

I’ll admit that I cannot say that the $25 billion was necessarily used to “upgrade” the refineries, but it logical to say that Exxon, because of excess and oppressive EPA regulation caused them to have to spend $25 billion to either change or take those properties off line or take a charge for them which reduced capacity and crimped supply.

I'm going to try one more, and for the last time, to straighten this out.
I am not spewing bullshit to connect some number to a write off of dry gas reserves. I am quoting directly from Exxon.
If you cannot understand that, I don't know what the hell to do.
This is their 8 K from November 30, 2020:

https://ir.exxonmobil.com/node/31031/html#xomexhibit9911302020.htm

In that statement for the SEC, they note:

This effort included a re-assessment of dry gas assets, primarily in North America, which previously had been included in the Company’s future development plans. Under the plan as approved, the Company no longer plans to develop a significant portion of its dry gas portfolio, including a portion of the Company’s resources in the Appalachian, Rocky Mountains, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, and Arkansas regions of the U.S. as well as resources in Western Canada and Argentina. The
decision not to develop these assets will result in non-cash, after-tax charges of approximately $17 billion to $20 billion in the Company’s fourth quarter 2020 results. The Company does not expect any material future cash expenditures related to these impairments.


They took the $20 billion dollar "impairment" in 2020 on their "dry gas reserves." They may have taken other write-offs on equipment, but this is what we've been talking about. I hope you can take their publicized word for it.

Edit: from their year end report, dry gas reserves would be "property" and the impairment would be "• a significant decrease in the market price of a long-lived asset;". The assets were over-valued on their books.

[paulxu]

Pretty common thing to do buybacks Paul. Nothing nefarious to see here.

Good point. I wasn't ascribing a nefarious intention. Was commenting on their nice cash position after record profits, that led them to start buying stock back.

[Masterofreality]

I'm not going to feel sorry for the oil companies.
Can't find the 2021 total taxes of 40 billion on their statements. Their statements show $7.6 billion in taxes. However, on 280 billion in sales, 40 would only be 14%.
In the year they show a loss of $20 billion, they also have an "unusual" charge of $25 billion. Can't find an explanation for that so far.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/XOM/financials/annual/income-statement


I'm going to try one more, and for the last time, to straighten this out.
I am not spewing bullshit to connect some number to a write off of dry gas reserves. I am quoting directly from Exxon.
If you cannot understand that, I don't know what the hell to do.
This is their 8 K from November 30, 2020:

https://ir.exxonmobil.com/node/31031/html#xomexhibit9911302020.htm

In that statement for the SEC, they note:


They took the $20 billion dollar "impairment" in 2020 on their "dry gas reserves." They may have taken other write-offs on equipment, but this is what we've been talking about. I hope you can take their publicized word for it.

Nice try but now you are bullshitting yourself. Last I checked , $20 billion is not $25 billion. Did you flunk math??
In your original post of ‘not feeling sorry for the oil companies, YOU yourself cited an unexplained $25 billion unusual charge, not $20 billion. Nowhere in there is an “dry gas reserve” charge of $25 billion in that report. I combed through the Exxon 2020 Annual report and have clearly pointed out to you what the $25 billion impairment was for to explain it to you but you just can’t accept that you are full of it. It is right in the annual report that a $25.3 billion impairment was taken in PP&E. It’s on page 64. Pretty damn clear.
Your numbers don’t add up Paul and you started this circus trying to trash an oil company for price gouging when there is nothing of the sort going on.
It is clear that the $25 billion number that you could not explain was for PP&E impairment which is Property Plant & Equipment. I even explained the Impairment definition. THAT is your mystery $25 billion charge. Your attempt at tying it to some nebulous “dry gas” write off is just that- hot gas.
The link between the Wall Street Journal report about how your boy Biden has discouraged oil supply, and production, and Exxon having to reduce refinery capacity because of onerous EPA regulations and Biden’s orders are direct. Like all Libs you try to blame a company for a problem that your Lib policies created, but it’s not working this time, if it ever does.
Give it up. Your numbers don’t add up and you have proven zero. The charade is over. Don’t open Pandora’s box unless you are willing to deal with the consequences.

I admitted my mistake when I postured that the $25 billion was for refinery upgrades BUT, it was still Facility impairment related thereby reducing refinery capacity partially causing the current situation. Why don’t you admit that you are totally off base in your posturing here and your number mis-connection?

[paulxu]

I admitted my mistake when I postured that the $25 billion was for refinery upgrades BUT, it was still Facility impairment related thereby reducing refinery capacity partially causing the current situation. Why don’t you admit that you are totally off base in your posturing here and your number mis-connection?

This all started when I noted that their "loss" on the 2020 income statement of 20 billion might not have happened without an unusual charge of 25 billion.
I have found 20 of the 25 billion unusual charge. It was for an impairment of their natural gas reserves (can't you read their 8K statement?).
Not sure what the other 5 billion was for, but I'm damn sure that 20 billion of the total 25 was for "dry gas reserves" as noted directly from Exxon
I'm going to take their word for it, not yours. I don't know how to help you read:

The decision not to develop these assets will result in non-cash, after-tax charges of approximately $17 billion to $20 billion
Those are Exxon's words...not mine.
They took a 20 billion impairment in 2020 on the write down of these dry gas reserves. They said they would, and did.
It had absolutely nothing to do with plant, equipment, EPA regulations or anything except bringing an asset to fair market value.
I don't know what the other 5 billion is for.
I stand by my original point that they would not have had a (paper) loss without these gas reserve write down. They didn't "lose" any money .
Impairments have no direct impact on cash on hand.

And then I went back and looked at Forbes.
In fact, the Forbes analysis of Exxon's 10 K for 2020 here, noted the impairment for gas reserves as over 24 billion:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2021/03/11/hidden-impairment-charges-in-exxon-mobils-earnings--other-findings-from-the-real-earnings-season/?sh=7c0ac3336980
A fact they pointed to directly in the 10 K here:
https://www.newconstructs.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NewConstructs_Models_XOM_UpstreamCarryingValueRedu ction_2020-10-K.png

The bottom line is that they seemed to have increased their 20 billion estimate from Nov 2020, to an actual impairment of 24 billion by the end of the year, as duly noted in their 10 K...almost all of the 25 billion "unusual" charge. None of the 24 billion had anything to do with plant, equipment or EPA regulations.

[Masterofreality]

This all started when I noted that their "loss" on the 2020 income statement of 20 billion might not have happened without an unusual charge of 25 billion.
I have found 20 of the 25 billion unusual charge. It was for an impairment of their natural gas reserves (can't you read their 8K statement?).
Not sure what the other 5 billion was for, but I'm damn sure that 20 billion of the total 25 was for "dry gas reserves" as noted directly from Exxon
I'm going to take their word for it, not yours. I don't know how to help you read:

Those are Exxon's words...not mine.
They took a 20 billion impairment in 2020 on the write down of these dry gas reserves. They said they would, and did.
It had absolutely nothing to do with plant, equipment, EPA regulations or anything except bringing an asset to fair market value.
I don't know what the other 5 billion is for.
I stand by my original point that they would not have had a (paper) loss without these gas reserve write down. They didn't "lose" any money .
Impairments have no direct impact on cash on hand.

And then I went back and looked at Forbes.
In fact, the Forbes analysis of Exxon's 10 K for 2020 here, noted the impairment for gas reserves as over 24 billion:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2021/03/11/hidden-impairment-charges-in-exxon-mobils-earnings--other-findings-from-the-real-earnings-season/?sh=7c0ac3336980
A fact they pointed to directly in the 10 K here:
https://www.newconstructs.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NewConstructs_Models_XOM_UpstreamCarryingValueRedu ction_2020-10-K.png

The bottom line is that they seemed to have increased their 20 billion estimate from Nov 2020, to an actual impairment of 24 billion by the end of the year, as duly noted in their 10 K...almost all of the 25 billion "unusual" charge. None of the 24 billion had anything to do with plant, equipment or EPA regulations.

STILL DOESN’T add up! For Gawd’s sake STOP IT. “Exxon’s “Words” are laid out in the Annual Report. Not Forbes.
$20 million, $24 million whatever in Paul’s twisted pretzel logic. The Annual report page 64 clearly shows PP&E impairment of $25.3 billion.
Keep shouting all you want. Your President is a screw up and so are his minions causing $6.00 gas to soon be a reality due to their idiotic policies.
I am done with this ponderous garbage topic. I’ve proven my statement. Case closed.

[GoMuskies]

Here are the notes from the financials on the unusual charges:

"Mainly as a result of declines in prices for crude oil, natural gas and petroleum products and a significant decline in its market capitalization at the end of
the first quarter of 2020, the Corporation recognized before-tax goodwill impairment charges of $611 million in Upstream, Downstream, and Chemical
reporting units. Fair value of the goodwill reporting units primarily reflected market-based estimates of historical EBITDA multiples at the end of the first
quarter. Charges related to goodwill impairments in 2020 are included in “Depreciation and depletion” on the Consolidated Statement of Income"

"In 2020, as part of the Corporation's annual review and approval of its business and strategic plan, a decision was made to no longer develop a significant
portion of the dry gas portfolio in the U.S., Canada and Argentina. The impairment of these assets resulted in before-tax charges of $24.4 billion in
Upstream. Other before-tax impairment charges in 2020 included $0.9 billion in Upstream, $0.5 billion in Downstream, and $0.1 billion in Chemical. In
2019, before-tax impairment charges were $0.1 billion"

Why are we still fighting about this? These are literally quotes from notes 3 and 9 to the 2020 financial statements. They add up to $25 billion.

[paulxu]

Why are we still fighting about this? These are literally quotes from notes 3 and 9 to the 2020 financial statements. They add up to $25 billion.

Because, as you note:

"In 2020, as part of the Corporation's annual review and approval of its business and strategic plan, a decision was made to no longer develop a significant
portion of the dry gas portfolio in the U.S., Canada and Argentina. The impairment of these assets resulted in before-tax charges of $24.4 billion in Upstream"

And apparently that isn't good enough, and it must have been for plant and equipment charges due to the EPA, even if Exxon says it's not. It may be due to not understanding the PP&E includes "property" as well as plant and equipment.

[GoMuskies]

$25 billion would be a serious refinery upgrade! Like, upgrading to a new refinery!

[XU_Lou]

Because, as you note:

"In 2020, as part of the Corporation's annual review and approval of its business and strategic plan, a decision was made to no longer develop a significant
portion of the dry gas portfolio in the U.S., Canada and Argentina. The impairment of these assets resulted in before-tax charges of $24.4 billion in Upstream"

And apparently that isn't good enough, and it must have been for plant and equipment charges due to the EPA, even if Exxon says it's not. It may be due to not understanding the PP&E includes "property" as well as plant and equipment.

Good grief Paul, just admit you're wrong! Just admit you fell for another lie!

This horse has been dead for days now....

[paulxu]

$25 billion would be a serious refinery upgrade! Like, upgrading to a new refinery!

Don't tell Lou. Also, that dry gas portfolio must have been carrying serious value.

[GoMuskies]

Don't tell Lou. Also, that dry gas portfolio must have been carrying serious value.

I'd say....about $25 billion worth!

[XU_Lou]

Don't tell Lou. Also, that dry gas portfolio must have been carrying serious value.

LOL, tell me what? That there's nothing nefarious going on?

So if you think that it's immoral for these companies to reap these profits, and that they should somehow give some of those profits back to the public, then should the public be forced to repay the oil companies the equally massive losses they realized in 2020?

And BTW, I don't recall any criticism from you when Amazon cashed in on the Covid shutdowns....

If you have a problem with the tax code, maybe you should talk to your congressman....

[paulxu]

Nothing illegal about profits, nor most of the time immoral.
Just don't expect me to feel sorry for the poor oil companies.
BTW, their "massive" losses in 2020 were on paper; cash position unaffected.
The "loss" came from the impairments. Read the info in this thread.

[XU_Lou]

Nothing illegal about profits, nor most of the time immoral.
Just don't expect me to feel sorry for the poor oil companies.
BTW, their "massive" losses in 2020 were on paper; cash position unaffected.
The "loss" came from the impairments. Read the info in this thread.

So what the hell was the point of this weeks-long discussion then?

[XU_Lou]

Will Adam Schiff be hauled up in front of a Congressional tribunal for his role in the Stephen Colbert break-in and insurrection at the Capitol last night?

[XU_Lou]

Why did Joe Biden take showers with his daughter?

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped

[XU_Lou]

Louisville devolves into more of a shithole than ever. This is the bed Fischer made:

https://www.wdrb.com/news/louisville-mayor-greg-fischer-punched-at-fourth-street-live/article_ca04cab0-ef69-11ec-b93e-5b5608faaae8.html

[paulxu]

The historian Heather Cox Richardson has a column today about the advice from Judge Luttig. Worth a read:

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-18-2022

To everyone who is lucky enough to have children, Happy Father's Day.

[Muskie in dayton]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped
Yep, Trump is human scum. A vile, nasty person with a dick personality to match.

I’d take his Presidency in a heartbeat over the current shitshow.

[xubrew]

Yep, Trump is human scum. A vile, nasty person with a dick personality to match.

I’d take his Presidency in a heartbeat over the current shitshow.

...and if the GOP nominates literally anyone else other than Trump, they'll win the presidency by perhaps a historic margin.

[94GRAD]

...and if the GOP nominates literally anyone else other than Trump, they'll win the presidency by perhaps a historic margin.

No one will ever beat Reagan(359) v. Mondale(3)

[paulxu]

History is replete with cases where a big lie triumphs over rational thought.

[bjf123]

History is replete with cases where a big lie triumphs over rational thought.

Like the incontrovertible proof that Adam Schiff says he has proving Trump colluded with Russia? We’re still waiting to see that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[noteggs]

No one will ever beat Reagan(359) v. Mondale(3)

Don’t remembering being that close lol.

[paulxu]

Schiff said:

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff on Sunday said he thinks there is “ample” evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians but that it’s not the same as conduct that rises to the level of criminality.

I think the Senate Intelligence Committee report adequately documents "collusion" between Trump campaign staff and Russia. Not apparently to the level of "conspiracy",a crime... but certainly to the normally understood meaning of collusion:

secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/513499-republicans-incriminate-trump-decimate-his-russia-hoax-narrative/

[XU_Lou]

History is replete with cases where a big lie triumphs over rational thought.

You voted for a guy that took showers with his daughter.... think about that...

[X-band '01]

No one will ever beat Reagan(359) v. Mondale(3)

I forget what the final score was that year, but Mondale's only wins were in DC and Minnesota.

[Strange Brew]

Schiff said:


I think the Senate Intelligence Committee report adequately documents "collusion" between Trump campaign staff and Russia. Not apparently to the level of "conspiracy",a crime... but certainly to the normally understood meaning of collusion:

secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/513499-republicans-incriminate-trump-decimate-his-russia-hoax-narrative/

Yet nothing illegal happened.

Can’t believe you, a college educated person, fell for the “Big Lie”.

[paulxu]

I guess all the indictments from the Mueller investigation (The DOJ prosecutes crimes, not the Senate) were for legal activities.

[Strange Brew]

I guess all the indictments from the Mueller investigation (The DOJ prosecutes crimes, not the Senate) were for legal activities.

No one was indicted for collusion.

[paulxu]

No one was indicted for collusion.

It's not a crime with a law against it under which you could be prosecuted.
But there was collusion as evidenced by Trump campaign people coordinating with Russians.

[xubrew]

No one will ever beat Reagan(359) v. Mondale(3)

If Reagan were to run against Biden he'd win by at least that margin. And that's with him being in the condition that he's in right now.

[Strange Brew]

It's not a crime with a law against it under which you could be prosecuted.
But there was collusion as evidenced by Trump campaign people coordinating with Russians.

Coordinated what Paul?

So no crime was committed but you bought the lie that one was.

Speaking collusion, the MO AG just filed a lawsuit against the current POTUS for colluding with big tech.

[paulxu]

Coordinated what Paul?

So no crime was committed but you bought the lie that one was.

Speaking collusion, the MO AG just filed a lawsuit against the current POTUS for colluding with big tech.

Coordinated with Russians by giving them campaign data to us to promote Trump, especially in key states.
Meeting with Russians to accept "dirt" on opponents.
Meetings with Russians in advance of inauguration to discuss sanctions.
There was lots of "coordinating" with a foreign enemy.

Multiple crimes were committed with indictments handed down.
Many people plead guilty to lying and were subsequently pardoned; including campaign advisors, national security advisors, etc.

The MO lawsuit is against government officials for allegedly suppressing protected speech.

[Strange Brew]

Coordinated with Russians by giving them campaign data to us to promote Trump, especially in key states.
Meeting with Russians to accept "dirt" on opponents.
Meetings with Russians in advance of inauguration to discuss sanctions.
There was lots of "coordinating" with a foreign enemy.

Multiple crimes were committed with indictments handed down.
Many people plead guilty to lying and were subsequently pardoned; including campaign advisors, national security advisors, etc.

The MO lawsuit is against government officials for allegedly suppressing protected speech.

Don’t think any of that coordination was ever proven. Those charged were caught in perjury traps.

Pretty sure the Obama/Biden WH did not consider Russia a threat so it’s laughable for you to call them a foreign enemy now.

Still like to know why the Obama admin was meddling in the Trump campaign. Very Nixon esque stuff there.

Keep your “big lie” going Paul. It’s humorous.

[paulxu]

Coordinated with Russians by giving them campaign data to us to promote Trump, especially in key states.
Meeting with Russians to accept "dirt" on opponents.
Meetings with Russians in advance of inauguration to discuss sanctions.


Don’t think any of that coordination was ever proven.

You're kidding, right? All of those things were proven.

Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnik and handed over polling data.
Trump Jr, Kushner and Manafort met with Russians in Trump tower to get dirt on Clinton.
They've got tapes of Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador.

[XU_Lou]

Coordinated with Russians by giving them campaign data to us to promote Trump, especially in key states.
Meeting with Russians to accept "dirt" on opponents.
Meetings with Russians in advance of inauguration to discuss sanctions.
There was lots of "coordinating" with a foreign enemy.

Multiple crimes were committed with indictments handed down.
Many people plead guilty to lying and were subsequently pardoned; including campaign advisors, national security advisors, etc.

The MO lawsuit is against government officials for allegedly suppressing protected speech.


Paul....did you forget this:


"Now we discover what that price is.

The Obama presidential election team has set up camp in Tel Aviv with the mission to defeat Netanyahu in our upcoming election.

The “Anyone but Bibi” mission is headed by Jeremy Bird, Obama’s National Field Director in his successful presidential campaigns.

Under Bird, a group called “Victory 15” has been set up. It has recruited the young activists from Israel’s 2013 social protest movement and will man a massive social network and personal contact campaign to defeat Bibi. V15 is financed by an NGO called “One Voice” whose motto is to be “the voice of mainstream Israelis and Palestinians.” Research finds that One Voice is funded by John Kerry’s State Department.

In its press release, V15 calls itself “non partisan” which is clearly a lie. Its aim is solely to defeat Bibi,

Can we really call that “non partisan”?

In its 2014 annual report is describes its actions as “promoting popular resistance, state-building, and the Arab Peace Initiative, while advocating for an end to the conflict and a two-state solution along the 1967 borders.”

Does Israel really need this outsider that advocates “popular resistance” to impose the Arab Peace Initiative on to Israel? There is grave danger in the intent of this American interference into our political system.

It is no coincidence that the headquarters of the V15 campaign is right next door to the Tel Aviv offices of One Voice.

One Voice was formed in 2003, its inaugural board of advisers included Gary Gladstein who used to be the chief operations officer of Soros Fund Management. As in George Soros.

The major consulting firm working on the Israeli elections is “270 Strategies” which is also headed by Bird. This company operates in elections on the principle of grassroots community organization, dividing the countries into local zones and working them incessantly and efficiently. It was the tactics that drove Obama into the White House in 2008 and kept him there in 2012.

According to World Net Daily, 270 Strategies has a team of 45 in Israel; sixteen of them are former Obama staffers who have been parachuted into Tel Aviv to lead the local workers with their experience.

One of the top men is Mitch Steward, a 270 Strategies founding partner who helped the Obama campaign build what the U.K. Guardian newspaper called “a historic ground operation that will provide the model for political campaigns in America and around the world for years to come.”

Obama’s excuse for not meeting with Netanyahu in Washington was that he couldn't be seen interfering in the Israeli election process. But the White House and the State Department is now exposed as seriously interfering in Israeli politics with the Obama team, financed by the Obama Administration, working to unseat Benjamin Netanyahu and his party in Israel’s upcoming election.

In Congress, Netanyahu will receive more standing ovations than Obama received when he addressed Congress. In Israel, the big question is will he receive more votes in our election than any other party. Or will he pay the political price for defying Obama?

Whatever the result, this is a major attack by America on our electoral system and a further deterioration in America’s attachment to Israel."


https://www.jpost.com/blogs/the-view-from-israel/obamas-shocking-interference-into-israels-election-process-389858

[Strange Brew]

You're kidding, right? All of those things were proven.

Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnik and handed over polling data.
Trump Jr, Kushner and Manafort met with Russians in Trump tower to get dirt on Clinton.
They've got tapes of Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador.

Really? Any of this proven in Court or just with your “college educated” friends?

[GoMuskies]

Good for Forest Hills schools. They'll take a lot of heat for what they did but anti-racism is actually racist poison pushed by grifters like Kendi.

[XU_Lou]

"The precipitous and chaotic American abandonment of Afghanistan, without proper consultation and support for allies, less than a year ago was a great shock to the NATO alliance, raising grave doubts about the judgment, stability and reliability of the U.S. as leader of the free world.

Now, in the rapidly changing landscape of the Ukraine war, we are seeing ominous signs that the U.S. may be leading NATO in the direction of an even worse strategic humiliation — one that can result in a dramatic reconfiguration of the world’s geopolitical structure."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-ukraine-war-response-is-fast-becoming-biden-s-second-blunder/ar-AAYKASm

Do you remember just a few weeks ago when all the Democrats were all gung ho about the prospect of going to war with Russia? How's that going for you now? How's the Ruble?

Oh yea, thanks for the inflation and high gas prices for this little adventure of yours...

[noteggs]

Good for Forest Hills schools. They'll take a lot of heat for what they did but anti-racism is actually racist poison pushed by grifters like Kendi.

Wow the school district that had me read Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 is getting their mojo back!

[paulxu]

Really? Any of this proven in Court or just with your “college educated” friends?

Well, I'll use one example.
They had tapes of Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador.
He plead guilty in court to lying about those conversations (hard to say you didn't have them when the FBI has you on tape).

Does that count, or are you still confused? I'm guessing the FBI guys and the judge were "college educated."
Then again, maybe not.

[Strange Brew]

Well, I'll use one example.
They had tapes of Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador.
He plead guilty in court to lying about those conversations (hard to say you didn't have them when the FBI has you on tape).

Does that count, or are you still confused? I'm guessing the FBI guys and the judge were "college educated."
Then again, maybe not.

So a general in the incoming administration can’t talk to a foreign Ambassador?

Who set up the recording and why? Are you still confused?

I’ll help, talking to an Ambassador of a foreign country during the transition of power is not illegal. Recording it potentially is..

Like I said, perjury trap. Try to keep up Paul.

[paulxu]

Sounds like you and the FBI should have a chat.

[Strange Brew]

Sounds like you and the FBI should have a chat.

About what Paul?

[paulxu]

About what Paul?

They're the ones with the tape recorders you think may be illegal.

[Strange Brew]

They're the ones with the tape recorders you think may be illegal.

Maybe, maybe not illegal but the reason they did it was based on a big lie from the Clinton campaign.

[paulxu]

Maybe, maybe not illegal but the reason they did it was based on a big lie from the Clinton campaign.

I think Flynn was caught on tape with the Russian ambassador, because the FBI routinely tapes Russian officials in our country.
Not sure if the Clinton campaign had anything to do with that routine taping. Hadn't heard that.
And if talking to the Russian ambassador at that point was legal, why did the National Security Advisor lie about it?
If it was legal, why did he lie to Pence about it, which Trump used as a reason to fire him?

[Strange Brew]

I think Flynn was caught on tape with the Russian ambassador, because the FBI routinely tapes Russian officials in our country.
Not sure if the Clinton campaign had anything to do with that routine taping. Hadn't heard that.
And if talking to the Russian ambassador at that point was legal, why did the National Security Advisor lie about it?
If it was legal, why did he lie to Pence about it, which Trump used as a reason to fire him?

The FBI opened the investigation based off the Steele dossier. The CIA would handle International comms not the FBI.

Don’t know, maybe he didn’t trust the Obama FBI or Spence. He’s a General, he’s going to not trust a whole lot of people with info.

[paulxu]

The FBI handles communication intercepts within the United States, like Flynn's call. The CIA is precluded from doing that.
If Flynn's communications with the Russian ambassador were on the up and up, were legal, etc...why did he lie?
He was the f...ing National Security Advisor. He could have easily said...my talks were legal. Why did he lie?

[Strange Brew]

The FBI handles communication intercepts within the United States, like Flynn's call. The CIA is precluded from doing that.
If Flynn's communications with the Russian ambassador were on the up and up, were legal, etc...why did he lie?
He was the f...ing National Security Advisor. He could have easily said...my talks were legal. Why did he lie?

You clearly don’t know how this all works and I’ll just leave it at that.

[XU_Lou]

Ooops! It looks like the Democrat 1/6 witch hunt is totally bogus:

Investigators: Pelosi Responsible For Jan. 6 Security Breakdown At U.S. Capitol

"Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi shoulders much of the blame for the security breakdown at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, a preliminary report from Republican investigators Reps. Jim Banks and Rodney Davis determined.

The Capitol Police (USCP) were half-staffed on Jan. 6, Pelosi’s House Sergeant at Arms denied multiple requests for National Guard assistance from the Pentagon and the USCP Chief in the days leading up to Jan. 6, officers were poorly equipped and had insufficient riot shields and helmets, and they were never trained to handle a riot even after the riots of 2020, the investigation shows, according to Banks."

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/23/investigators-pelosi-responsible-for-jan-6-security-breakdown-at-u-s-capitol/

Sorry about that bad news Paul!!

[bjf123]

Too bad that will never be looked into by the January 6 Commission. It’s been specifically deemed off limits. What a surprise!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Ooops! It looks like the Democrat 1/6 witch hunt is totally bogus:

Investigators: Pelosi Responsible For Jan. 6 Security Breakdown At U.S. Capitol

"Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi shoulders much of the blame for the security breakdown at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, a preliminary report from Republican investigators Reps. Jim Banks and Rodney Davis determined.

The Capitol Police (USCP) were half-staffed on Jan. 6, Pelosi’s House Sergeant at Arms denied multiple requests for National Guard assistance from the Pentagon and the USCP Chief in the days leading up to Jan. 6, officers were poorly equipped and had insufficient riot shields and helmets, and they were never trained to handle a riot even after the riots of 2020, the investigation shows, according to Banks."

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/23/investigators-pelosi-responsible-for-jan-6-security-breakdown-at-u-s-capitol/

Sorry about that bad news Paul!!

Glad you admit finally it was a riot. Liked the golf tips. Tell SB.

[Strange Brew]

Glad you admit finally it was a riot. Liked the golf tips. Tell SB.

Agree the events that happened during the summer of 2020 were riots. You don’t read well..

[paulxu]

Why do you suppose some Republican congress people asked for preemptive pardons?

[bobbiemcgee]

So they wouldn't go to jail for corruption.:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/06/donald-trump-john-eastman-january-6-strategy

[Strange Brew]

Why do you suppose some Republican congress people asked for preemptive pardons?

Don’t know, ask them. Maybe they thought the charges were politically motivated garbage.

[Strange Brew]

So they wouldn't go to jail for corruption.:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/06/donald-trump-john-eastman-january-6-strategy

Vanity Fair? Haha, now I know why you don’t read so well…

[bjf123]

Don’t know, ask them. Maybe they thought the charges were politically motivated garbage.

That would never happen in DC! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XU_Lou]

Department of Homeland Security is Warning Catholic Churches and Pregnancy Centers to be Prepared for “Night of Rage” by Pro-Abortion Terrorist Groups.

"In a June 7 bulletin from the National Terrorism Advisory System (NTAS), the department responsible for public security said: “In the coming months, DHS expects the threat environment to become more dynamic as several high-profile events could be exploited to justify acts of violence against a range of possible targets.”

“These targets could include public gatherings, faith-based institutions, schools, racial, ethnic, and religious minorities, government facilities and personnel, U.S. critical infrastructure, the media, and perceived ideological opponents.”

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251485/dhs-warns-that-faith-based-institutions-could-be-targeted-amid-heightened-threat-environment

The good news, I'm about 100% certain they will all be "mostly peaceful".....

P.S. - also good to know that Merrick Garland is keeping his eyes on the REAL threats to America....those damn white nationalists

[GoMuskies]

I guess I'll have to skip church on Sunday. Darn it.

[Caf]

Department of Homeland Security is Warning Catholic Churches and Pregnancy Centers to be Prepared for “Night of Rage” by Pro-Abortion Terrorist Groups.

"In a June 7 bulletin from the National Terrorism Advisory System (NTAS), the department responsible for public security said: “In the coming months, DHS expects the threat environment to become more dynamic as several high-profile events could be exploited to justify acts of violence against a range of possible targets.”

“These targets could include public gatherings, faith-based institutions, schools, racial, ethnic, and religious minorities, government facilities and personnel, U.S. critical infrastructure, the media, and perceived ideological opponents.”

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251485/dhs-warns-that-faith-based-institutions-could-be-targeted-amid-heightened-threat-environment

The good news, I'm about 100% certain they will all be "mostly peaceful".....

P.S. - also good to know that Merrick Garland is keeping his eyes on the REAL threats to America....those damn white nationalists

You mean like Dylann Roof?

[GoMuskies]

Somewhere in this 1400 page behemoth of a thread is LA Muskie telling me Roe v. Wade would never be overturned.

Incorrect.

[xuphan]

Somewhere in this 1400 page behemoth of a thread is LA Muskie telling me Roe v. Wade would never be overturned.

Incorrect.

A majority conservative court with the republicans targeting abortion. Surprised it took this long for Roe to be overturned.

[Strange Brew]

A majority conservative court with the republicans targeting abortion. Surprised it took this long for Roe to be overturned.

Originalist, please.

This actually makes unrestricted abortion legal in the States that choose that route. Don’t know why anyone is upset by this.

[xuphan]

Originalist, please.

This actually makes unrestricted abortion legal in the States that choose that route. Don’t know why anyone is upset by this.

Conservative states will ban Abortion and liberal states will allow it. Guess planned parenthood will turn into a transportation agency soon.

[bobbiemcgee]

Sale:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/17-steel-hanger-chrome-pkg-qty-6?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJEIOQByAGjbX2ImvNLqwd vGIj5RekFbIRk4IwcaaUzSkGmza-FPFZIBoCApsQAvD_BwE

[Strange Brew]

Conservative states will ban Abortion and liberal states will allow it. Guess planned parenthood will turn into a transportation agency soon.

Likely. It’s a good ruling on law and it really allows people to live where and how they want within the States.

[noteggs]

Conservative states will ban Abortion and liberal states will allow it. Guess planned parenthood will turn into a transportation agency soon.

Sounds like the private sector is already taking care of the transportation issue.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/03/business/amazon-abortion-costs/index.html

[GoMuskies]

The carbon footprint of these people!

[xuphan]

Sale:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/17-steel-hanger-chrome-pkg-qty-6?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJEIOQByAGjbX2ImvNLqwd vGIj5RekFbIRk4IwcaaUzSkGmza-FPFZIBoCApsQAvD_BwE

Yikes!

[paulxu]

P.S. - also good to know that Merrick Garland is keeping his eyes on the REAL threats to America....those damn white nationalists

That is good news.

[bobbiemcgee]

"Clarence Thomas, writing separate in the abortion ruling, says the Supreme Court should now "reconsider" its decisions that found a right to contraception, sex between consenting adult men, and same-sex marriage — and "correct the error" it made in those cases."

Time to throw out the pills and rubbers?
Maybe ban interracial marriage while you at it so you can get rid of your dumbo wife.

[GoMuskies]

Clarence Thomas is based. But while he's probably right on the actual law, it's really not a good idea in 2022.

[STL_XUfan]

Going to be interesting to see the impact of all of these terribly worded laws in these states. Oklahoma's law technically bans IUDs. So do all of the women that have IUDs right now have to go get them removed? I am not sure how anyone will provide IVF treatments in most of these states. I do not think some of these states realize the size of the car they just caught. It will be a clusterfuck.

[bobbiemcgee]

Felony in michigan - 4 yrs. in jail.

[paulxu]

"In future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell," Thomas wrote, referring to decisions on contraception, sodomy and same-sex marriage.

Forgot Loving case somehow.

[xubrew]

I wonder what this will actually do to the number of abortions that are performed in the United States. I imagine it will go down some, but probably not by much. Most people will still be within driving distance of being able to get an abortion.

I've heard some say that states will pass laws making it illegal to get an abortion even if it's in another state. I fail to see how this is even remotely enforceable. The demographic I'm most familiar with is college students and young adults, and I realize that's a limited demographic, but VERY often their parents don't know, the father doesn't know, their own roommates sometimes don't know, and pretty much no one knows. So...how the hell is this enforceable?? It isn't. The chances that at least one person reading this fathered a child and never knew that the mother decided to abort it are pretty close to 100%. The chances that everyone reading this knows someone who terminated a pregnancy and virtually no one knows about it but her are also pretty close to 100%. So I don't know who the hell is going to be tasked with catching people who travel out of state for an abortion. That's impossible.

[xuphan]

"Clarence Thomas, writing separate in the abortion ruling, says the Supreme Court should now "reconsider" its decisions that found a right to contraception, sex between consenting adult men, and same-sex marriage — and "correct the error" it made in those cases."

Time to throw out the pills and rubbers?
Maybe ban interracial marriage while you at it so you can get rid of your dumbo wife.

I just can’t see the Supreme Court even as conservative as it is getting rid of Gay marriage.

[Caf]

Sounds like the private sector is already taking care of the transportation issue.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/03/business/amazon-abortion-costs/index.html

I am sure companies have already started threatening to move themselves instead of women. Maybe Ohio should mention their inevitable ban on their stupid billboards asking people in cities to move there.

[Strange Brew]

I just can’t see the Supreme Court even as conservative as it is getting rid of Gay marriage.

The only thing they can do is turn it back to the States as there is no Federal law on it either way.

[XU_Lou]

Dear Democrats,

I know this has been a tough few months for you all. Let me explain this in terms you might be able to understand. Think of your situation as that of this being the first year of Travis Steele....only except that Sean Miller will never ever be available....

Oh wait, John Brannen might be a possibility....

[noteggs]

I am sure companies have already started threatening to move themselves instead of women. Maybe Ohio should mention their inevitable ban on their stupid billboards asking people in cities to move there.

Yes I’m sure this has happened as well. Definitely going to be interesting to see what kind of corporate clout they have on this, especially in fly over states. Obviously lots of things to be considered vs one issue.

[X-band '01]

I just can’t see the Supreme Court even as conservative as it is getting rid of Gay marriage.

Keep in mind that decision was decided 5-4 with John Roberts siding with the liberal justices. Now you've got an extra conservative justice; I can't imagine a scenario where Gorsuch, Kavanaugh or Barrett decide to keep this ruling in place.

[bjf123]

I just can’t see the Supreme Court even as conservative as it is getting rid of Gay marriage.

It would really depend on the Constitutional basis for the original ruling and the issues that would result in a case ending up before the SCOTUS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Caf]

Blame for ANY issue?

Please explain how any Republican is responsible for the disaster at our Southern Border, because one of the central cornerstones of the Party platform is the exact opposite of what the Dems are allowing to happen.

What about surging crime in our Big Cities? These are all DEEP BLUE cities, run by progressive Mayors and DAs, most with defund Police agendas. Not to mention the Dems control all 3 houses in DC and are doing ZERO to combat this at the Federal level AND their allies in the MSM refuse to cover the problem. Not to mention, which Party tried to sugarcoat the ANTIFA/BLM looting and violence? This shitshow is most certainly one sided.

How about our embarrassing Public School Systems in those very same cities? The heavily progressive Teachers Unions have to be one of the most corrosive institutions in the country. Where are the Conservative politicians adding to this massive problem?

What about "Wokeness" and pushing all these over the top social issues? Now you probably have no problem with this stuff but a vast majority does IMO. Regardless, it's the Dems and the far left wing of the Party, championing this stuff. Again, almost entirely one sided.

Probably the most serious situation is what Biden and the Dems have done to our Energy Sector through his DAY ONE Executive orders. There are no Green New Deal Republicans that I'm aware of. The havoc to the economy, brought on by this agenda is undeniable. Is there any argument that this is not a HUGE problem?

Blame for ANY issue? I don't see how both sides are to blame for the above, but I would really like to hear how you connect the dots.

Because once upon a time we had leaders who compromised and cared about the whole rather than the extremes which kept them in power. Cared about wins for people rather than their party. Both parties are more extreme than ever, liberal and conservative localities are drifting further from the majorities. The federal government is just a pendulum. If you look back at 2018 people the opposite of you would say the same thing you’re saying but about Trump and the GOP. Zoom out. The country is too stupid to see the elite is hitting them back and forth like a ping pong ball profiting with every swing. Views which are truly mutually exclusive are extremely rare and inconsequential to the masses but they’re all people care about.

[XU_Lou]

Because once upon a time we had leaders who compromised and cared about the whole rather than the extremes which kept them in power. Cared about wins for people rather than their party. Both parties are more extreme than ever, liberal and conservative localities are drifting further from the majorities. The federal government is just a pendulum. If you look back at 2018 people the opposite of you would say the same thing you’re saying but about Trump and the GOP. Zoom out. The country is too stupid to see the elite is hitting them back and forth like a ping pong ball profiting with every swing. Views which are truly mutually exclusive are extremely rare and inconsequential to the masses but they’re all people care about.

A lot of what you say is 100% correct. But it's kind of weird that you never call out the Democrats on this board....

[xuphan]

Sounds like the private sector is already taking care of the transportation issue.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/03/business/amazon-abortion-costs/index.html

Will be interesting to see if Disney takes a similar stance and if DeSantos retaliates against them like he did when they objected to Florida’s so called “don’t say gay” bill.

[bjf123]

Disney, Apple, Amazon, etc., have all said they’ll provide transportation and housing to blue states where abortion is legal.

What I find hypocritical about Disney is they edited the new Buzz Lightyear movie to remove the same sex kiss scene between two characters in the version that’s released in countries where same sex relationships are banned.

If they were true to their stated company philosophy, they’d tell those countries to take a hike and say the scene stays. Instead, they cave in pursuit of the almighty dollar.


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[xubrew]

Disney, Apple, Amazon, etc., have all said they’ll provide transportation and housing to blue states where abortion is legal.

What I find hypocritical about Disney is they edited the new Buzz Lightyear movie to remove the same sex kiss scene between two characters in the version that’s released in countries where same sex relationships are banned.

If they were true to their stated company philosophy, they’d tell those countries to take a hike and say the scene stays. Instead, they cave in pursuit of the almighty dollar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This was predictable. Other businesses will likely follow suit. What about private liberal arts colleges? Will they start providing resources to students who want to terminate a pregnancy? If so, what's to stop them?

What is also likely is that more places that perform abortions will open in the states where it is legal. The majority of abortions performed now do not even require a surgical procedure. It's a combination of pills. I think it's also possible that sooner or later (and perhaps sooner) doctors will begin to prescribe the pills to people who live out of state for...I don't know..."ulcerative pains" or something like that, and send them in the mail. An abortion typically costs between $700 and $800 dollars without insurance. Most people who decide they want one and are willing to pay for one will also find a way to drive to another state or find a way to get themselves there.

When the dust settles (which I suppose could take a while), I really don't know how much the number of abortions performed in this country will actually decline. It will probably decline some, but perhaps not by a substantial amount. A lot of people who are happy about the ruling probably don't realize how small the reduction in abortions will actually be. A lot of people who are hopping mad about this probably don't realize that most people who decide they want an abortion will still be able to get one.

If you're really pro-life, shouldn't the primary concern be reducing the number of abortions that are performed?? I think the best way to do that is to look at what makes people decide to get an abortion, and then offering to help them with those issues. I know that's a very radical concept. Overturning Roe v Wade is not the best way to do that. People can still get abortions regardless of what states they live in. There will start to be resources available to them that weren't available before. In fact we are already starting to see that.

[xubrew]

Praying at sporting events is kind of dumb. I'm pretty sure God doesn't care who wins...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court-coach-prayers.html

[GoMuskies]

Pretty sure the prayers are after the game.

[paulxu]

Pretty sure the prayers are after the game.

It's too late then. :facepalm:

[GoMuskies]

"Thanks God for winning that game for us" or

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

[paulxu]

"Thanks God for winning that game for us" or

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"


I'm pretty sure God doesn't care who wins...

:read:

[XU_Lou]

Praying at sporting events is kind of dumb. I'm pretty sure God doesn't care who wins...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court-coach-prayers.html


:read:

Why do presume to know what he prays for?

[bobbiemcgee]

Had to decide which election denier got my vote today.

[Muskie in dayton]

This was predictable. Other businesses will likely follow suit. What about private liberal arts colleges? Will they start providing resources to students who want to terminate a pregnancy? If so, what's to stop them?

What is also likely is that more places that perform abortions will open in the states where it is legal. The majority of abortions performed now do not even require a surgical procedure. It's a combination of pills. I think it's also possible that sooner or later (and perhaps sooner) doctors will begin to prescribe the pills to people who live out of state for...I don't know..."ulcerative pains" or something like that, and send them in the mail. An abortion typically costs between $700 and $800 dollars without insurance. Most people who decide they want one and are willing to pay for one will also find a way to drive to another state or find a way to get themselves there.

When the dust settles (which I suppose could take a while), I really don't know how much the number of abortions performed in this country will actually decline. It will probably decline some, but perhaps not by a substantial amount. A lot of people who are happy about the ruling probably don't realize how small the reduction in abortions will actually be. A lot of people who are hopping mad about this probably don't realize that most people who decide they want an abortion will still be able to get one.

If you're really pro-life, shouldn't the primary concern be reducing the number of abortions that are performed?? I think the best way to do that is to look at what makes people decide to get an abortion, and then offering to help them with those issues. I know that's a very radical concept. Overturning Roe v Wade is not the best way to do that. People can still get abortions regardless of what states they live in. There will start to be resources available to them that weren't available before. In fact we are already starting to see that.

Your ideas are not radical, but very common-sense amidst an issue that is driven almost entirely by emotion. You are correct that this will have little impact on abortions, and nothing about it is intended to reduce abortion (though I’d suspect that would be the hope for many). The ruling is a good thing in that it de-federalizes the issue and gives power to the States. That is a good thing - the less Federal government the better of the Republic, and now this can go to the will of the States’ voters.

As to your first paragraph, the answer is money. Employers paying a few $K for an abortion is a lot cheaper than paying maternity leave and having to hire/train someone else to cover. If private, liberal arts colleges crunch the numbers and find it’s cheaper to fund an abortion, it will happen.

[xubrew]

Praying at sporting events is kind of dumb. I'm pretty sure God doesn't care who wins...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court-coach-prayers.html


:read:


Why do presume to know what he prays for?

I've been in a lot of those prayer sessions. I was also kidding.

Now let me be at least a little bit more serious. How long before a HS coach or AD decides they want to pray after a football or basketball game, and another group of players, or band members, or cheerleaders, or whoever decide they want to also gather on the field with a pride flag right next to those who are praying?? I'm placing the over/under at a year. I'm betting it will happen some where in this country in the 2022-2023 year.

Now I don't even know what that means. I just believe that it's going to happen. The way the decision was written they'd have every much of a right to do it as those who are praying. I do think people get way too emotionally wrapped up in ceremony and symbolism and now we have even more opportunities for more people to get mad at symbols and ceremonies. Other than that, though, I don't really know how I even feel about it.

[Xuperman]

Employers paying a few $K for an abortion is a lot cheaper than paying maternity leave and having to hire/train someone else to cover.

And obviously Company paid insurance premiums would increase with a new addition to the family. Also daycare costs could come into play.

[xubrew]

Your ideas are not radical, but very common-sense amidst an issue that is driven almost entirely by emotion. You are correct that this will have little impact on abortions, and nothing about it is intended to reduce abortion (though I’d suspect that would be the hope for many). The ruling is a good thing in that it de-federalizes the issue and gives power to the States. That is a good thing - the less Federal government the better of the Republic, and now this can go to the will of the States’ voters.

As to your first paragraph, the answer is money. Employers paying a few $K for an abortion is a lot cheaper than paying maternity leave and having to hire/train someone else to cover. If private, liberal arts colleges crunch the numbers and find it’s cheaper to fund an abortion, it will happen.

I believe you are largely correct. At least a part of the reason they're doing it is because feel it's the right thing to do, but I think the much bigger part of the reason they're doing it is because it makes more financial sense.

You know who else is probably a big fan of Roe v Wade being overturned? Those who own/operate privately owned abortion clinics in states where it will remain legal. More patients/customers for them!!

[Smails]

Had to decide which election denier got my vote today.

If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

[XU_Lou]

BREAKING NEWS:

A new star witness in the J6 hearing is claiming she personally saw Donald Trump commandeer the USS McCain, and was within seconds of launching a missile barrage on Congress.

[XU_Lou]

51 people died the other day because of Joe Biden's open border policy, and not a peep on this board about it.

I bet if they were gunned down the libs would be flipping out about the need for gun control. Why aren't they demanding that the border be secured????

If you think these are the only people that have died crossing the border, then you're not paying attention.

[Xville]

So lou.. you are whining about the other side pointing fingers when an event happens, while you yourself point fingers in this instance. Makes sense.

[XU_Lou]

So lou.. you are whining about the other side pointing fingers when an event happens, while you yourself point fingers in this instance. Makes sense.

Wow, Ville, you’re back again! How many times have you left me? But for some reason you always come back to this abusive relationship. This is truly a classic sign of low self-esteem, is it not?

[xubrew]

I fail to see how an open border policy contributed to this since they were all in the country illegally. It's not that the border was open. It's that it was closed and they came across anyway. Had they not been here illegally they probably wouldn't have felt compelled to pile into the back of a truck the way that they did.

I'm not saying it wasn't a tragedy and I'm not trying to assess the blame. All I'm saying is I fail to see how you're connecting those two dots of open borders and what happened.

[XU_Lou]

I fail to see how an open border policy contributed to this since they were all in the country illegally. It's not that the border was open. It's that it was closed and they came across anyway. Had they not been here illegally they probably wouldn't have felt compelled to pile into the back of a truck the way that they did.

I'm not saying it wasn't a tragedy and I'm not trying to assess the blame. All I'm saying is I fail to see how you're connecting those two dots of open borders and what happened.

Biden is tacitly, if not openly encouraging illegals to come across the border. The idea that the border is closed is a farce. Who is the government flying and busing all across the country?

[xubrew]

Biden is tacitly, if not openly encouraging illegals to come across the border. The idea that the border is closed is a farce. Who is the government flying and busing all across the country?

Even if what you say was true (which is A LOT to just suppose), then it's obvious the people that the government are helping out by flying and busing all over the country did not include the 51 people who died crammed into the back of an abandoned truck.

[paulxu]

I fail to see how an open border policy contributed to this since they were all in the country illegally. It's not that the border was open. It's that it was closed and they came across anyway. Had they not been here illegally they probably wouldn't have felt compelled to pile into the back of a truck the way that they did.

I'm not saying it wasn't a tragedy and I'm not trying to assess the blame. All I'm saying is I fail to see how you're connecting those two dots of open borders and what happened.

You should know better by now than to try and inject common sense into these types of discussions.

[Strange Brew]

Even if what you say was true (which is A LOT to just suppose), then it's obvious the people that the government are helping out by flying and busing all over the country did not include the 51 people who died crammed into the back of an abandoned truck.

It is true. And yes it did not help those people.

A sound border policy and not encouraging people to come to the US illegally might have helped them.

[XU_Lou]

Oh, the humanity!!!

10 minutes of Democrats denying the presidential election results of 2000, 2004, and 2016:

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1541828714761277440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1541828714761277440%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthelibertydaily.com%2Fhere-are-so-many-examples-of-democrats-denying-election-results-that-your-head-will-spin%2F

In print, with links to sources:

https://thelibertydaily.com/here-are-so-many-examples-of-democrats-denying-election-results-that-your-head-will-spin/

[XU_Lou]

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is preparing to cite the United States’ largest oil field for violating ozone pollution standards, a move that will threaten the end of oil and gas production in the region.

According to the Texas Governor’s Office, the proposed regulations will directly affect the Permian Basin, the largest oil field in the United States, accounting for 95,000,000 gallons of gasoline per day or 40% of the oil produced domestically.

This would be just one more move from Biden’s administration to impact the lives of every American by reducing the fuel supply and causing gas prices to soar well beyond Biden’s record of $5 per gallon.

https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=202204&RIN=2060-AV68

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-24/world-s-biggest-oil-field-permian-basin-faces-new-air-pollution-curbs#xj4y7vzkg

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/biden-takes-aim-americas-largest-oil-field-threatening-stop-production-sending-gas-prices-soaring/

Joseph Stalin Biden is a complete idiot who obviously hates America.

[STL_XUfan]

I have decided to become a 1 issue voter, and that issue is to abolish the 4th of July and replace it with Independence day. Independence day will be the first Thursday in July each year, and much like Thanksgiving, everyone will get the Thursday and Friday off so it is always a 4 day weekend. If you can promise me that, you will have my vote.

[Strange Brew]

I have decided to become a 1 issue voter, and that issue is to abolish the 4th of July and replace it with Independence day. Independence day will be the first Thursday in July each year, and much like Thanksgiving, everyone will get the Thursday and Friday off so it is always a 4 day weekend. If you can promise me that, you will have my vote.

I'm in only if all fireworks displays are required to start with a viewing of Bill Pullman's speech.

[Xville]

I have decided to become a 1 issue voter, and that issue is to abolish the 4th of July and replace it with Independence day. Independence day will be the first Thursday in July each year, and much like Thanksgiving, everyone will get the Thursday and Friday off so it is always a 4 day weekend. If you can promise me that, you will have my vote.

I’m down… may go to two issues though if they can also promise me to not do the daylight savings to standard time switch and vice versa ever again

[94GRAD]

I’m down… may go to two issues though if they can also promise me to not do the daylight savings to standard time switch and vice versa ever again

That is actually starting in Nov of '23

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-that-would-make-daylight-savings-time-permanent-2023-2022-03-15/

[Xville]

That is actually starting in Nov of '23

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-that-would-make-daylight-savings-time-permanent-2023-2022-03-15/

Did it pass the house and did Biden actually do something good and sign it?

[STL_XUfan]

That is actually starting in Nov of '23

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-that-would-make-daylight-savings-time-permanent-2023-2022-03-15/

The House hasn't taken up the bill yet: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-news/latest-updates-daylight-saving-time-legislation-change

The story about how it passed the senate is also hilarious. Apparently Rubio and Sinema pulled a fast one while no one was paying attention: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/18/senate-daylight-saving-time-vote-accident/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/18/senate-daylight-saving-time-vote-accident/)

[GoMuskies]

I read the column, a few of the comments to it and the posts on this thread, and....I had no idea people had such strong feelings about DST vs. standard time. Wow.

[bjf123]

I read the column, a few of the comments to it and the posts on this thread, and....I had no idea people had such strong feelings about DST vs. standard time. Wow.

The time change doesn’t really bother me. If I had to pick, I guess I’d prefer DST and the extra hour of daylight in the evening. Again, not really a big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XU_Lou]

The dictator wannabe, Joseph Stalin Biden, issued this edict earlier today:

"My message to the companies running gas stations and setting prices at the pump is simple: this is a time of war and global peril.

Bring down the price you are charging at the pump to reflect the cost you’re paying for the product. And do it now."


This moron doesn't have a clue how the economy or small businesses work. God save us from this total imbecile.

https://thelibertydaily.com/gaslighting-tweet-of-the-decade-delusional-dictator-biden-picks-a-new-target-to-blame-for-gas-price-crisis/


Some replies:

"My message to the @POTUS running the country who cancelled domestic pipelines, drilling, and oil leases on Day 1 is simple: Stop gaslighting the American people with lies & stop putting America Last. And do it now."



"They are charging a price that reflects what they are paying for gas. The US government makes more on each gallon of gas sold than the oil companies do."



"Somebody in the regime thought it was a good idea to play tough guy against small business owners in a collapsing economy that the regime created.

BRILLIANT!"

[94GRAD]

The dictator wannabe, Joseph Stalin Biden, issued this edict earlier today:

My message to the companies running gas stations and setting prices at the pump is simple: this is a time of war and global peril.

Bring down the price you are charging at the pump to reflect the cost you’re paying for the product. And do it now."


This moron doesn't have a clue how the economy or small businesses work. God save us from this total imbecile.

https://thelibertydaily.com/gaslighting-tweet-of-the-decade-delusional-dictator-biden-picks-a-new-target-to-blame-for-gas-price-crisis/


Some replies:

"My message to the @POTUS running the country who cancelled domestic pipelines, drilling, and oil leases on Day 1 is simple: Stop gaslighting the American people with lies & stop putting America Last. And do it now."



"They are charging a price that reflects what they are paying for gas. The US government makes more on each gallon of gas sold than the oil companies do."



"Somebody in the regime thought it was a good idea to play tough guy against small business owners in a collapsing economy that the regime created.

BRILLIANT!"

This is hyperbole at its finest. PLEASE show us a single example of President Biden wanting to be a dictator compared to Trump! I'm a registered Independent with Liberal social ideals and Conservative spending ideals. Trump wanted to be and stay in power no matter what the majority of the voters say.

[XU_Lou]

This is hyperbole at its finest. PLEASE show us a single example of President Biden wanting to be a dictator compared to Trump! I'm a registered Independent with Liberal social ideals and Conservative spending ideals. Trump wanted to be and stay in power no matter what the majority of the voters say.

You mean, besides the quote above? Or the edicts he gave on day 1 shutting down Keystone, and effectively stifling the US oil industry? How about threatening to end the Filibuster, or stuff the Supreme Court so that he can ram down his policies that no one wants. How about his failed attempt at forcing the entire population to get a vax? How about his Stalinesque "Ministry of Truth"?


From the New York Times:

“Ease Up on the Executive Actions, Joe,” reads the Thursday headline. “President Biden is right to not let his agenda be held hostage, but legislating through Congress is a better path.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/536317-by-his-own-definition-biden-is-already-governing-like-a-dictator/

https://www.newsweek.com/tulsi-gabbard-compares-biden-admin-dictatorship-over-ministry-truth-1702267


Have you seen 2000 Mules yet?

[94GRAD]

You mean, besides the quote above? Or the edicts he gave on day 1 shutting down Keystone, and effectively stifling the US oil industry? How about threatening to end the Filibuster, or stuff the Supreme Court so that he can ram down his policies that no one wants. How about his failed attempt at forcing the entire population to get a vax? How about his Stalinesque "Ministry of Truth"?


From the New York Times:

“Ease Up on the Executive Actions, Joe,” reads the Thursday headline. “President Biden is right to not let his agenda be held hostage, but legislating through Congress is a better path.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/536317-by-his-own-definition-biden-is-already-governing-like-a-dictator/

https://www.newsweek.com/tulsi-gabbard-compares-biden-admin-dictatorship-over-ministry-truth-1702267


Have you seen 2000 Mules yet?

You are conflating liberal policies/ideals with dictatorship. Dictators want to be and stay in power, like Donald and saying there was election fraud and he won the election. Your arguments are silly.

[XU_Lou]

You are conflating liberal policies/ideals with dictatorship. Dictators want to be and stay in power, like Donald and saying there was election fraud and he won the election. Your arguments are silly.

Perhaps you need to remove the blinders....

[94GRAD]

Perhaps you need to remove the blinders....

This response is both fun and funny. That's the best you can do with a rational debate? Take my blinders off?

[XU_Lou]

This response is both fun and funny. That's the best you can do with a rational debate? Take my blinders off?

I gave you several solid examples, and you fail to see them for what they are. That's your problem. What democracy has ever had a "Ministry of Truth"? This was quite in line with the Democrats anti-free speech goals which I'm sure you're unaware of as well.

Why does he want to stuff the Supreme Court? Is there any rational reason other than so that he can dictate his agenda? Again, take the freaking blinders off....

[94GRAD]

I gave you several solid examples, and you fail to see them for what they are. That's your problem. What democracy has ever had a "Ministry of Truth"? This was quite in line with the Democrats anti-free speech goals which I'm sure you're unaware of as well.

Why does he want to stuff the Supreme Court? Is there any rational reason other than so that he can dictate his agenda? Again, take the freaking blinders off....

Do you mean what Trump and the Rebublicans did with the last 3 Justices? Please expand on that.

[XU_Lou]

Do you mean what Trump and the Rebublicans did with the last 3 Justices? Please expand on that.

What the hell are you talking about?

Edit: Do you understand what stuffing/packing the Supreme Court means?

[94GRAD]

What the hell are you talking about?

Really? I have obviously made poor life choices today wasting my time on a message board with you. Have a great 4th of July weekend.

[XU_Lou]

Really? I have obviously made poor life choices today wasting my time on a message board with you. Have a great 4th of July weekend.

Do you understand what stuffing/packing the Supreme Court means?

[Xville]

Do you understand what stuffing/packing the Supreme Court means?

At no point has Biden said he will do that, so how about stop making shit up

[XU_Lou]

At no point has Biden said he will do that, so how about stop making shit up

Really, so why did he set-up a commission to look into it? Just for the hell of it????

[Xville]

Really, so why did he set-up a commission to look into it? Just for the hell of it????

Again, he has not said he would do it, so stop lying and gaslighting (your favorite term.) he set up a commission to look into several things regarding the court. Again, stop making things up, and maybe get out of your basement every once in a while.

[XU_Lou]

Again, he has not said he would do it, so stop lying and gaslighting (your favorite term.) he set up a commission to look into several things regarding the court. Again, stop making things up, and maybe get out of your basement every once in a while.

Liar:

https://news.yahoo.com/biden-commission-packing-supreme-court-211028704.html

[Xville]

Liar:

https://news.yahoo.com/biden-commission-packing-supreme-court-211028704.html

He has yet to say he would do it. That article didn’t provide anything like you somehow believe it does

[XU_Lou]

Again, he has not said he would do it, so stop lying and gaslighting (your favorite term.) he set up a commission to look into several things regarding the court. Again, stop making things up, and maybe get out of your basement every once in a while.

He clearly set-up the commission to look into packing the court - that is undeniable, and you, therefore are a liar (but we already knew that).

Either he looked into it to ultimately follow through, or he was placating his voting base, who would implement packing the court in a heart beat to get what they want, damned what the rest of the country wants.

[Xville]

He clearly set-up the commission to look into packing the court - that is undeniable, and you, therefore are a liar (but we already knew that).

Either he looked into it to ultimately follow through, or he was placating his voting base, who would implement packing the court in a heart beat to get what they want, damned what the rest of the country wants.

Again, show me where he said he was going to go pack the court like you said he did. You sir are the liar, per usual. And again show me where he said he put a commission together to pack the court. Spoiler alert, he didn’t. Lying lou at it again

[XU_Lou]

Again, show me where he said he was going to go pack the court like you said he did. You sir are the liar, per usual. And again show me where he said he put a commission together to pack the court. Spoiler alert, he didn’t. Lying lou at it again

You ain't too smart, are you ville. Soooo easy to show how ill-informed you really are.... or you're just plain lyin as usual:

Straight from the horses mouth:

"President Biden will today issue an executive order forming the Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court of the United States, comprised of a bipartisan group of experts on the Court and the Court reform debate. In addition to legal and other scholars, the Commissioners includes former federal judges and practitioners who have appeared before the Court, as well as advocates for the reform of democratic institutions and of the administration of justice. The expertise represented on the Commission includes constitutional law, history and political science.

The Commission’s purpose is to provide an analysis of the principal arguments in the contemporary public debate for and against Supreme Court reform, including an appraisal of the merits and legality of particular reform proposals. The topics it will examine include the genesis of the reform debate; the Court’s role in the Constitutional system; the length of service and turnover of justices on the Court; the membership and size of the Court; and the Court’s case selection, rules, and practices."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/09/president-biden-to-sign-executive-order-creating-the-presidential-commission-on-the-supreme-court-of-the-united-states/

But, after Ginsburg’s death, Biden, under pressure from the left, promised to appoint a panel that would examine a range of reforms, including court-packing,

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/26/biden-inherits-fdrs-supreme-court-problem

President Biden ordered a commission to study Supreme Court changes such as adding seats,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-to-sign-executive-order-creating-commission-on-supreme-court-changes-11617983199


Good God, are you really that obtuse?

[Xville]

Lou thank you for proving my point that he never said he was for it (even though earlier you said he did.) At no point did he say he was for it and at no point did he put a commission together for the purpose of packing the court but instead analyzing it among other possible reforms. Thank you for admitting you are a liar. Somehow you confused studying and analyzing with saying he was for it.

[XU_Lou]

Lou thank you for proving my point that he never said he was for it (even though earlier you said he did.) At no point did he say he was for it and at no point did he put a commission together for the purpose of packing the court but instead analyzing it among other possible reforms. Thank you for admitting you are a liar. Somehow you confused studying and analyzing with saying he was for it.

Keep grasping at straws, Sir Black Knight!

[Xville]

Keep grasping at straws, Sir Black Knight!

Show me where he said he wanted to pack the court like you said he did in #13951. Talk about grasping at straws big guy.

[Xville]

He clearly set-up the commission to look into packing the court - that is undeniable, and you, therefore are a liar (but we already knew that).

Either he looked into it to ultimately follow through, or he was placating his voting base, who would implement packing the court in a heart beat to get what they want, damned what the rest of the country wants.

Ah so even in your second paragraph you admit that maybe he didn’t want it… weird since you were so sure that he did want it in post 13951. Which is it lyin lou?

[XU_Lou]

Ah so even in your second paragraph you admit that maybe he didn’t want it… weird since you were so sure that he did want it in post 13951. Which is it lyin lou?

Are we getting close to that point where you throw your usual temper tantrum and claim that you're going to put me on ignore and say that you'll never talk to me again?

[XU_Lou]

Are we getting close to that point where you throw your usual temper tantrum and claim that you're going to put me on ignore and say that you'll never talk to me again?

As much as Joe Biden is a complete and total imbecile, even he could recognize when he's lost an argument when the facts have been so clearly presented to him.

Keep swinging at those windmills, ville!!!

[Xville]

Are we getting close to that point where you throw your usual temper tantrum and claim that you're going to put me on ignore and say that you'll never talk to me again?

Again, point me to where he said he wants to pack the court like you said he did in post 13951. It’s interesting your response above. A real man would just admit he was wrong, you should be used to it by now.

[Xuperman]

Lou thank you for proving my point that he never said he was for it (even though earlier you said he did.) At no point did he say he was for it and at no point did he put a commission together for the purpose of packing the court but instead analyzing it among other possible reforms. Thank you for admitting you are a liar. Somehow you confused studying and analyzing with saying he was for it.

C'mon man, whether he said it publicly or not has little to do with his desired outcome. Of course, he like all Libs want a Justice advantage in the SCOTUS. However, they all realize that the 6-3 conservative majority will take DECADES to overcome. I'm thinking Thomas will step down when the Republicans take the White House, so that a younger Justice can take his place......the other 5 have plenty of miles left. Yes, they would love to pack the court, but obviously it sets a unwinnable precedent.

Now, the factual reality is that Biden's DOJ has shown ZERO interest in eliminating ILLEGAL protests at conservative Justices homes. Soooo, I suppose in a "ends justify the means" scenario a couple of spots could open up for Biden to fill. I mean in a world where men can get pregnant anything is possible.

[bjf123]

Again, point me to where he said he wants to pack the court like you said he did in post 13951. It’s interesting your response above. A real man would just admit he was wrong, you should be used to it by now.

Maybe I’m missing something. While Biden might not have publicly said the words “I’m in favor of packing the SCOTUS”, isn’t it reasonable to infer that he’s in favor of it by his creating a panel or commission to study the court, with one of the items examined being the number of seats on the court? He certainly isn’t going to create a panel to look into something he’s firmly against.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xuperman]

Maybe I’m missing something. While Biden might not have publicly said the words “I’m in favor of packing the SCOTUS”, isn’t is reasonable to infer that he’s in favor of it by his creating a panel or commission to study the court, with one of the items examined being the number of seats on the court? He certainly isn’t going to create a panel to look into something he’s firmly against.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, you can't have a reasonable debate with these leftist because their arguments are usually so disingenuous.

[Muskie in dayton]

Do you mean what Trump and the Rebublicans did with the last 3 Justices? Please expand on that.
Wait, are you suggesting that appointing, holding hearings, then confirming someone to fill SCOTUS vacancies was "stuffing the court"?

And yes, there are plenty of Dems (but I don't know Biden specifically) have suggested expanding the SCOTUS by 4 to regain the majority. But the Republicans can then appoint 4, 6, maybe even 100 more justices in 2025. Stupid games.

[Xville]

Yeah, you can't have a reasonable debate with these leftist because their arguments are usually so disingenuous.

First of all I’m not a leftist.

Second of all, it’s a bipartisan commission.

Third of all, you can infer all all you want but he never said he wanted it, which is what lou said he did.

[STL_XUfan]

Maybe I’m missing something. While Biden might not have publicly said the words “I’m in favor of packing the SCOTUS”, isn’t it reasonable to infer that he’s in favor of it by his creating a panel or commission to study the court, with one of the items examined being the number of seats on the court? He certainly isn’t going to create a panel to look into something he’s firmly against.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean the report is public, so we don't have to guess at what they recommended. It contains such sweeping takes as:

"As we noted at the outset of this Part, there is profound disagreement amongCommissioners over whether adding Justices to the Supreme Court at this moment in time would be wise. As a Commission we have endeavored to articulate the contours of that debateas best as we understand them, without purporting to judge the weight of any of the argumentsoffered in favor or against calls to increase the size of the Court."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/SCOTUS-Report-Final.pdf

I would assume if he wanted to expand the Supreme Court, and had the votes to do it, he would just do it. Retaining a bi-partisan commission to analyze potential reforms to safe guard the court from either party playing politics with it likely would do nothing to help, as it would (and it does) articulate all of the arguments against that position.

[Xuperman]

First of all I’m not a leftist.

Second of all, it’s a bipartisan commission.

Third of all, you can infer all all you want but he never said he wanted it, which is what lou said he did.

So, you want us here to think you are a middle of the road Blue Dog? Stop the charade or start being pragmatic with common sense and stop with the MSM shell game.

[Xville]

So, you want us here to think you are a middle of the road Blue Dog? Stop the charade or start being pragmatic with common sense and stop with the MSM shell game.

I already said I wasn’t a “lefty.” Whether you choose to believe it or not is your issue.

By pragmatic and common sense, do you mean believing everything the rnc and newsmax tells you?

[Xuperman]

I already said I wasn’t a “lefty.” Whether you choose to believe it or not is your issue.

By pragmatic and common sense, do you mean believing everything the rnc and newsmax tells you?

WTF...Newsmax? Never spent 1 minute there. I am FAR more interested in what the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party (MSM) regurgitates on a 24 hr cycle. The radical left agenda is up front and personal....ZERO attempt to deceive any longer these days.

That said, can you point to any posts here where you are not FIRMLY on team LIB?

[paulxu]

Happy 4th of July!

Here's some holiday wishes from the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party (MSM) from the noted and biased LIB writer in the WSJ.


Happy 246th Fourth of July to the great and fabled nation that is still, this day, the hope of the world.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/courage-cassidy-hutchinson-testify-ketchup-wall-steering-wheel-meadows-jan-6-11656626001

[XU_Lou]

That said, can you point to any posts here where you are not FIRMLY on team LIB?

Exactly!

Next he's going to tell us that Andrew Yang ran as a Republican in 2020.

[Xuperman]

Happy 4th of July!

Here's some holiday wishes from the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party (MSM) from the noted and biased LIB writer in the WSJ.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/courage-cassidy-hutchinson-testify-ketchup-wall-steering-wheel-meadows-jan-6-11656626001

Personally I couldn't care less what happens to Trump. In fact, I just want him to go away and criminal prosecution is probably the only way that happens. His personality is toxic to the party, so there has to be someone else in '24 to build on his policies. Trump is the gift that keeps on giving for the Dems and the MSM. With no Trump, they can laser focus on winning issues like, Abortion rights, gun control, CTR, racist Cops, transgender rights and wind mills.

[xuphan]

Personally I couldn't care less what happens to Trump. In fact, I just want him to go away and criminal prosecution is probably the only way that happens. His personality is toxic to the party, so there has to be someone else in '24 to build on his policies. Trump is the gift that keeps on giving for the Dems and the MSM. With no Trump, they can laser focus on winning issues like, Abortion rights, gun control, CTR, racist Cops, transgender rights and wind mills.

Would you vote for a Trump DeSantis ticket in 2024?

[Muskie in dayton]

Would you vote for a Trump DeSantis ticket in 2024?
That will never happen. DeSantis will be on top of the ticket or remain Governor of FL.

[Muskie in dayton]

Speaking of Florida and presidential tickets, Gavin Newsome is apparently testing the waters, and is running adds in FL lecturing about how DeSantis is stripping Floridians of freedoms. Yes, really. Newsome lecturing on freedoms is the equivalent of Hitler lecturing on tolerance. Satire meet reality.

[xuphan]

Speaking of Florida and presidential tickets, Gavin Newsome is apparently testing the waters, and is running adds in FL lecturing about how DeSantis is stripping Floridians of freedoms. Yes, really. Newsome lecturing on freedoms is the equivalent of Hitler lecturing on tolerance. Satire meet reality.

Ads paid by the Democratic Party through funding by political donations from the average Joe and corporations. Why do people keep giving these lobbyists parties money?

[Xuperman]

Would you vote for a Trump DeSantis ticket in 2024?

That would be a game day decision for me. The running mate would not necessarily be a part of that decision. If Trump could greatly tone down his ridiculous rhetoric.....maybe. However, it would be VASTLY entertaining to see the Leftist hacks in total meltdown 2.0!!

Again, I am hoping that something happens to prevent him from seeking the nomination. There is absolutely nothing appealing about the person, the man. He is for the most part repulsive with the charm of a pimple faced adolescent. He has to go away so Republicans can be themselves again and build on his policies.

[Xville]

WTF...Newsmax? Never spent 1 minute there. I am FAR more interested in what the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party (MSM) regurgitates on a 24 hr cycle. The radical left agenda is up front and personal....ZERO attempt to deceive any longer these days.

That said, can you point to any posts here where you are not FIRMLY on team LIB?

13527

The “msm” “ propaganda” nonsense is such a tired argument. Both sides do it to a ridiculous amount…let’s not act oblivious and think it’s all on one side.

[Xuperman]

13527

The “msm” “ propaganda” nonsense is such a tired argument. Both sides do it to a ridiculous amount…let’s not act oblivious and think it’s all on one side.

Thanks 'ville,
Obviously true journalism has long been a rotting corpse, but Fox News and conservative talk radio vs the ENTIRE main stream media establishment AND Hollywood AND our pathetic BLM/LBGTQ sports infrastructure is an all encompassing advantage that sickens most people like me.

[XU_Lou]

Q:


That said, can you point to any posts here where you are not FIRMLY on team LIB?


A:


13527


Wow, really, this is your one and only example that you can cite. You really went out on a limb here by not toting the liberal line.... versus the majority of all your other posts!

1) Hell, Larry Summers of the Obama admin said the same thing with regards to spending (which is really the main driver of inflation, but that's besides the point here).

2) "Basically the last 4-5 years Washington has effed up" - so you're blaming both Trump and Biden here.

How in the hell is this not agreeing with the libs???



There was not one main driver for the inflation we are experiencing today..there are a number of factors as to why we are experiencing this:

---interest rates being kept low while the economy was absolutely booming...causing real estate to absolutely soar----the bust was going to come, just a matter of when. Interest rates should have been risen years ago.

---Covid

---War in Ukraine

---Keystone Pipeline being shut down

---Pumping stimulus money out the wazoo into the country at a time that was not needed----which drove consumer spending at a time when there were supply issues.

Basically the last 4-5 years Washington has effed up at every single turn, and that is thru both administrations.

[Xville]

Thanks 'ville,
Obviously true journalism has long been a rotting corpse, but Fox News and conservative talk radio vs the ENTIRE main stream media establishment AND Hollywood AND our pathetic BLM/LBGTQ sports infrastructure is an all encompassing advantage that sickens most people like me.

I can understand a bit of that, and I appreciate your response. I really wish we could go back to a world where the news is just reported, there was some kind of compromise in Washington, and social media didn’t exist.

[Xuperman]

I can understand a bit of that, and I appreciate your response. I really wish we could go back to a world where the news is just reported, there was some kind of compromise in Washington, and social media didn’t exist.

Spot on 'ville,
This country would be in a very different place if the Floyd riots were reported on with the same horror as the MSM portrayed J6. Not to mention the appalling void of coverage by the MSM on the Big City black on black bloodbath. There is ZERO interest unless a white guy is involved....this crap has to have maximum push back by ALL of us! The current Democratic Party has been infiltrated by so many far left lunatics completely determined to divide us, in an attempt to force this country to pay for perceived past sins. It's not sustainable in the long term, and the vast majority will not take it much longer. The progressive left is on death row.

[Xuperman]

Right on cue.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/espn-hates-america-july-4th-loves-woke-columnist-arrested-choking-wife

This type of sh!t is officially a national cancer. I predict in 10 years, all traditional American sports will die of self inflicted political trauma. Only soccer and trans beach volleyball will survive.

[Muskie in dayton]

Spot on 'ville,
This country would be in a very different place if the Floyd riots were reported on with the same horror as the MSM portrayed J6. Not to mention the appalling void of coverage by the MSM on the Big City black on black bloodbath. There is ZERO interest unless a white guy is involved....this crap has to have maximum push back by ALL of us! The current Democratic Party has been infiltrated by so many far left lunatics completely determined to divide us, in an attempt to force this country to pay for perceived past sins. It's not sustainable in the long term, and the vast majority will not take it much longer. The progressive left is on death row.
Exactly. The media is the enemy of America, and most people have caught on.

Has anyone seen the "Both Sides" app? It presents how Left, Center, and Right media outlets report the same event so wildly differently. It also provides a L/R bias rating for dozens of news sources.

[xubrew]

Right on cue.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/espn-hates-america-july-4th-loves-woke-columnist-arrested-choking-wife

This type of sh!t is officially a national cancer. I predict in 10 years, all traditional American sports will die of self inflicted political trauma. Only soccer and trans beach volleyball will survive.

The article was objectively shit, but I (sort of) actually agree with one of his points. Actually, I don't even know if this was the point he was trying to make, but he at least touch on it...

Symbolism and ceremony have become overvalued. People think they are actually supporting and/or helping something simply by participating in a ceremony or sporting some sort of symbol.

Big conservative patriot guy: "I SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! I STAND FOR THE FLAG!!!"

Well, that's great. But, did you speak up when the budget cuts slashed the benefits for vets by over 40 percent a few years ago?? Did you even know that happened?? Do you donate, or even visit, veterans hospitals?? Do you have an opinion on the high substance abuse rate and suicide rate among veterans?? Have you called out the elected officials (who have ties to both parties) for not supporting these causes?? Standing for the flag in and of itself doesn't do anything.

And then the guys on the other side. "I KNEEL DURING THE ANTHEM."

Well, okay, that's great too. But do you ever donate to public schools or social service agencies? Do you ever volunteer? Do you ever reach out to your elected representatives and express how you want more money be spent on inner city public schools and after school programs? Do you support community policing, and have you noticed that the few cities that seem to have taken it on have actually experienced some success??

So, we now have people on both sides fighting each other over something that really doesn't amount to anything at all. "They won't stand for the Anthem!!" Well...at the end of the day, so what?? Standing or kneeling isn't tangible. If that's all someone is willing to do, then they're really not doing anything. Don't "support the troops" by standing for The Anthem and yelling at the people who don't. That's not doing anything to tangibly support anyone. And don't kneel for The Anthem and then yell at the people who are telling you that you should stand. That isn't tangibly supporting anyone either.

And...neither do BLM flags, Blue Lives Matter flags, Flag flags, Pride flags, or anything else that you see.

Now, don't get me wrong. I really don't have an issue with any of that in and of itself. I'm not saying we need to get rid of all symbols and ceremonies. I am saying that we need to stop thinking that symbols and ceremonies in and of themselves actually tangibly do anything. Because they don't. The NFL and MLB spent a fortune on these patriotic spectacles to "Support the Troops." None of that money actually went to the troops. In fact much of htis was happening at a time when benefits were being significantly cut. THAT SHOULD BOTHER PEOPLE!!!!!! To be bothered by someone who kneels and to not be bothered at all by things that actually hurt the troops/vets seems way off base to me.

[xubrew]

You know, I hate to say this, but I question whether or not we are going to make it. Much of what we fight over now are things that didn't matter to anyone as recently as ten years ago. We invent ways to divide ourselves, and in the grand scheme of it most of it really doesn't matter or shouldn't matter. It's as if we're doing it because we actually want to fight with one another. That doesn't strike me as being a sign of long term stability.

[XU_Lou]

Exactly. The media is the enemy of America, and most people have caught on.

Has anyone seen the "Both Sides" app? It presents how Left, Center, and Right media outlets report the same event so wildly differently. It also provides a L/R bias rating for dozens of news sources.

Agree. The media is supposed to protect the citizenry against the government regardless of who's in office. They have failed miserably over the last several decades and have become progressively worse.

Additionally, and more importantly, I would argue the government and the elites are at war with the American people. Unfortunately, I don't think most people have caught on to this. They see this as mostly a left-right dynamic, when in reality it's become more of a Goliath versus David dynamic in recent years/decades.

[XU_Lou]

Agree. The media is supposed to protect the citizenry against the government regardless of who's in office. They have failed miserably over the last several decades and have become progressively worse.

Additionally, and more importantly, I would argue the government and the elites are at war with the American people. Unfortunately, I don't think most people have caught on to this. They see this as mostly a left-right dynamic, when in reality it's become more of a Goliath versus David dynamic in recent years/decades.

Alright, Ill reply to my own post. As a perfect example of what I'm talking about, there are massive protests going on in the Netherlands over a proposed law that would effectively put 30% of all farms and their livestock out of business:

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/dutch-protesters-pour-manure-government-offices-over-industry-killing-regulations

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/revolution-netherlands-farmers-plan-july-4th-protests-supported-huge-crowds-video/

[Muskie in dayton]

Alright, Ill reply to my own post. As a perfect example of what I'm talking about, there are massive protests going on in the Netherlands over a proposed law that would effectively put 30% of all farms and their livestock out of business:

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/dutch-protesters-pour-manure-government-offices-over-industry-killing-regulations

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/revolution-netherlands-farmers-plan-july-4th-protests-supported-huge-crowds-video/
Pretty big story, and not a peep from MSM because it is counter to their agenda. This also was reflected in the fact that almost no one here was aware of the Australian Covid interment camps or Trudeau seizing assets of political opponents. Something is going to have to give soon.

[Xville]

]Pretty big story, and not a peep from MSM because it is counter to their agenda.[/B] This also was reflected in the fact that almost no one here was aware of the Australian Covid interment camps or Trudeau seizing assets of political opponents. Something is going to have to give soon.

Ugh...a simple google search turned up plenty of stories regarding this from what you call MSM. Be better.

How it was reported is significantly different considering those two links are from far right sources and ABC and Washington Post are on the other spectrum.

My assumption based on that, and like most everything else, is that the actual story is somewhere in the middle.

[xubrew]

Pretty big story, and not a peep from MSM because it is counter to their agenda. This also was reflected in the fact that almost no one here was aware of the Australian Covid interment camps or Trudeau seizing assets of political opponents. Something is going to have to give soon.


Ugh...a simple google search turned up plenty of stories regarding this from what you call MSM. Be better.

How it was reported is significantly different considering those two links are from far right sources and ABC and Washington Post are on the other spectrum.

My assumption based on that, and like most everything else, is that the actual story is somewhere in the middle.

I'm going to the Netherlands next week to visit some friends. She has yet to mention this. This is the first I've heard of it.

Another friend I have from Australia, who contracted COVID while she was physically in Australia, didn't mention anything about being taken to an internment camp either.

I'm not saying there's NO truth to these stories. I'm just saying that PERHAPS they are somewhat exaggerated. Just a little bit. Maybe.