Politics Thread

[Masterofreality]

By the way, on the issue of BothSidesIsms:

Democrat Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer on the steps of the Supreme Court in December 2021:

"I want to tell you Gorsuch! I want to tell you Kavanugh! You have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price! You won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions!"

Nothing like threatening Supreme Court Justices with “you’ll pay the price” and “you’re gonna get hit” if they follow the Constitution and don’t give Chucky his way.
I’ve never heard a Republican threaten the Judicial Branch of the US Government like that.
Sounds awfully Insurrectionny

[xuphan]

Trump: -No new wars started under his administration.
-Lowered taxes causing an economic boom.
-Low inflation
- The Abraham Accords
- Defeated ISIS
-Lowest minority unemployment in history
-Appointed qualified Followers of the Constitution to the Supreme Court and didn’t virtue signal.
- Russia and a “Ukrainian influence call” re Hunter Biden were a hoax.
- Policies caused a real wage increase after inflation.
-Made America energy independent.
- Shamed NATO countries into actually spending their fair share on defense. Which, by the way, is helping to stop Russian aggression.

That is a damn good four year record for a “bad president”. A helluva lot better than 8 years of Charlatan Obama and this ludicrous period of Potemkin Biden.
You are who is hilarious with your attempts to fence sit. I deal in Reality.

Look, I am not going to continue to go back and forth with a Trump Propaganda Troll. I feel sorry for you and Lou. I don’t mind having debates but not with trolls. I’ll be praying for you. Hope you find peace in this world buddy. See ya!

[XU_Lou]

Look, I am not going to continue to go back and forth with a Trump Propaganda Troll. I feel sorry for you and Lou. I don’t mind having debates but not with trolls. I’ll be praying for you. Hope you find peace in this world buddy. See ya!

LOL, "Mr. Centrist", we're all still waiting for the very first "extremist" speech from you on something Bobbie or Paul posts.

You're not fooling anyone, you're a radical lib from a radical public teachers union.

[paulxu]

Come to our "peaceful protest"...it's going to be "wild."

(Mark, get me the Proud Boys on the phone. We'll blame it on the FBI. Then let's bomb Mexico.)

[Masterofreality]

Look, I am not going to continue to go back and forth with a Trump Propaganda Troll. I feel sorry for you and Lou. I don’t mind having debates but not with trolls. I’ll be praying for you. Hope you find peace in this world buddy. See ya!

Nothing I said above is untrue.
By the way, I did NOT vote for Trump either time..but not for the Democrat candidate either.
But you cannot ignore the facts. All you can do is name call, which, by the way, is a very leftist thing to do when you have no counter argument.
Hmmmmm.

[xuphan]

Come to our "peaceful protest"...it's going to be "wild."

(Mark, get me the Proud Boys on the phone. We'll blame it on the FBI. Then let's bomb Mexico.)

Trump said that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Don’t bomb them until we get the money for the wall.

[XU_Lou]

Mostly peaceful Democrats have now bombed two Pro-Life offices.

[Masterofreality]

Trump said that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Don’t bomb them until we get the money for the wall.

And then he worked out the “Remain in Mexico” agreement and was on good terms with Mexico’s President.
Even Dem Representatives along the border are now saying that there needs to be some additional security. The Democrats have refused to address the immigration issue through legislation, so….

From RollCall.com:

Biden struck a noticeably different tone on immigration in March 2022 than he did a year earlier, when he had touted a sweeping overhaul of immigration policy that would legalize millions. The change reflects a sober reality for a party that has yet to accomplish its legislative immigration goals and faces tough electoral headwinds this fall.

It also comes as moderate Democrats, especially those facing reelection, emphasize border security as a key part of their immigration message.

“We've got a crisis on the southern Arizona border,” said Sen. Mark Kelly, D-Ariz. “I talk about it, because it's an issue for my state and for my constituents. And I also think it's a national security issue.”

[Xville]

Mostly peaceful Democrats have now bombed two Pro-Life offices.

Where’s the link that says they were democrats?

[XU_Lou]

In addition to the laundry list of catastrophes that is Biden's America:



Inflation is raging, the stock market is tanking, the economy is on the precipice of recession (or worse), there are looming food shortages, the supply chain is not improving, there are already baby formula shortages, there are constant attacks on free speech, and the freaking idiots in the Whitehouse are hell bent on starting WWIII - and by all means, so that they can get their revenge on Putin because they still believe he helped get Trump elected.


The economy is about to take another body blow, and will make shortages even more likely: east coast diesel inventories are now less than half their 5-year average:

https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1523329724792991747

Is anything going right in Biden's America?

What the hell is Pete Buttplug doing about this? Is he finished breast-feeding his baby yet? Or does he have his own secret cache of baby formula?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/07/diesel-fuel-is-in-short-supply-as-prices-surge-heres-what-that-means-for-inflation.html



Oh yea, not to mention the electricity shortage (Thanks to all the lunatic Democrats): https://archive.ph/ujRqu

[bobbiemcgee]

Mostly peaceful Democrats have now bombed two Pro-Life offices.

50 YEARS of exploding clinics.

[xuphan]

Where’s the link that says they were democrats?

I still want to know when Trump is going to live up to his campaign promise of making Mexico pay for the construction of the border wall. Can we get a link that tells us when this will happen? Anyone?

[XU_Lou]

I still want to know when Trump is going to live up to his campaign promise of making Mexico pay for the construction of the border wall. Can we get a link that tells us when this will happen? Anyone?

We're all still waiting for you to come out and admit you're a Democrat instead of pretending you're some kind of "holier-than-thou centrist".

[Masterofreality]

I still want to know when Trump is going to live up to his campaign promise of making Mexico pay for the construction of the border wall. Can we get a link that tells us when this will happen? Anyone?

Do you ever want to address Post #13259 on this thread or are you just selective in your responses right now, name caller?
Why don’t you send Trump an email expressing your concerns, like you wanted all of us to do with Greg Christopher?

[Strange Brew]

I still want to know when Trump is going to live up to his campaign promise of making Mexico pay for the construction of the border wall. Can we get a link that tells us when this will happen? Anyone?

It’s not going to happen and it never was. Most people understood it was hyperbole. He did however start building a fence to help things and reached an agreement with Mexico that seemed to work pretty well. So that was nice.

[xuwillie]

50 YEARS of exploding clinics.

See this is where we are...Republican protestors are racist and Liberals are justified for their actions. You can thank the media for most of this and why centrists are done with the far left liberal party. 6 more months and it will all be over

[UCGRAD4X]

50 YEARS of exploding clinics.

I would be interested on the source for this.

I will track down the attorney who said it is a federal offense to gather outside a judges home or place of work with the intent to influence the outcome of a pending case.

Meanwhile, parents are termed terrorists for questioning a school board by a federal government who has no jurisdiction over a state legislated issue/law.

[paulxu]

Timely question:

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2022/05/eric-robert-rudolph-appeals-sentence-for-deadly-birmingham-abortion-clinic-olympic-bombings.html

[XU_Lou]

Meanwhile, the Democrat mayor of Chicago just called for a violent insurrection:

"To my friends in the LGBTQ+ community—the Supreme Court is coming for us next. This moment has to be a call to arms."

-and-

"We will not surrender our rights without a fight—a fight to victory!"

This is a mayor of a major city calling for violence. But should we be surprised? This has been the M.O. of Democrats and leftists worldwide since Marx.


https://twitter.com/LoriLightfoot/status/1523844510735908864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1523844511658647553%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fpolitics %2F2022%2F05%2F10%2Fchicago-mayor-lori-lightfoot-issues-lgbtq-call-to-arms-over-supreme-court-leak%2F

[Masterofreality]

Timely question:

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2022/05/eric-robert-rudolph-appeals-sentence-for-deadly-birmingham-abortion-clinic-olympic-bombings.html

What exactly is the question Paul?
That guy deserves to pay a long sentence no matter what you think of abortion. Put him in solitary under the prison
Are you saying you are pro Baby Killing?

[paulxu]

Link to source on exploding clinics.

[Masterofreality]

Link to source on exploding clinics.

Like the Right to Life Clinic in Wisconsin that was firebombed.

[XU_Lou]

Anyone who says there was no organized voter fraud by Democrats in the 2020 election is lying to you, or you're lying to yourself:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c69MN8qpEI

[XU_Lou]

The mouth piece for Joe Biden, Jen Psaki, continues to tell Democrats to break the law: “We certainly continue to encourage [protests] outside of judges’ homes”

Where in the hell is our "supposed," our "alleged," Department of "Justice"??

Title 18, Section 1507 of the U.S. Code

Thank God Mitch McConnel blocked Merrick Garland from the SC - what a total fraud this moron is.


https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1524104592983744513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524104592983744513%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.toddstarnes.com%2Fcancel-culture%2Fstarnes-will-jen-psaki-be-charged-for-encouraging-scotus-mob-to-break-federal-law%2F

Meanwhile, "Bullet Travels Through Virginia AG’s Window After Promise to Prosecute Left-Wing Extremists"

https://nationalfile.com/bullet-travels-through-virginia-ags-window-after-promise-to-prosecute-left-wing-extremists/

[paulxu]

Anyone who says there was no organized voter fraud by Democrats in the 2020 election is lying to you, or you're lying to yourself:

Oh good; a movie by someone who plead guilty to a campaign finance felony, who the former president pardoned.
And that is a person who will tell us about voter fraud?
Well, OK then.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/04/faulty-premise-2000-mules-trailer-about-voting-mai/

[XU_Lou]

Oh good; a movie by someone who plead guilty to a campaign finance felony, who the former president pardoned.
And that is a person who will tell us about voter fraud?
Well, OK then.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/04/faulty-premise-2000-mules-trailer-about-voting-mai/

Facts are facts, despite your best efforts to obfuscate and smear.... Like I said Paul, you're lying to yourself.

Fact Checking the Fact Checkers:

https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2022/05/10/fact-checking-the-fact-checkers-2000-mules-n561941

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1522034716840452096.html

[xuphan]

Oh good; a movie by someone who plead guilty to a campaign finance felony, who the former president pardoned.
And that is a person who will tell us about voter fraud?
Well, OK then.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/04/faulty-premise-2000-mules-trailer-about-voting-mai/

What movie?

[paulxu]

Facts are facts, despite your best efforts to obfuscate and smear.... Like I said Paul, you're lying to yourself.


During the plea proceeding today, D’Souza admitted before the court that he caused two close associates to contribute $10,000 each to the Long Campaign with the understanding that he would reimburse them for their contributions and that he did reimburse them. D’Souza also admitted that he knew that what he was doing was wrong and something the law forbids. The court then accepted the guilty plea.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-in-manhattan-federal-court-to-campaign-finance-fraud

Facts...damn facts.

[Strange Brew]

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-in-manhattan-federal-court-to-campaign-finance-fraud

Facts...damn facts.

I don’t think D’Souza’s case are the facts he was talking about.

[XU_Lou]

I don’t think D’Souza’s case are the facts he was talking about.

He knows that - he's just practicing his own special art of obfuscation....

[xuphan]

Where’s the link that says they were democrats?

Who else would they be?

[Strange Brew]

“Great MAGA King”? Thank you Joe. Trump will run on the best, most wonderful nickname ever. It has great in it twice and America. It’s beautiful, written by the smartest people.

I don’t know what’s funnier, that Joe said it or how Trump will react to it…

[Masterofreality]

After a short pause, I submit this excellent article by a Former Princeton Professor, Michael Doran, now the Senior Fellow and Director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute, on the foibles of an Iran Nuclear “Deal” that Obama, and now Biden continue to foist upon the public.
Paul, in all of his continual delusions, still think that Iran is a responsible actor, despite the fact that it still proclaims “Desth to America and Israel” and aligns itself with bad guys like Putin and and Xi.
Progressive Paul will never agree with this well written piece. But Paul’s ways will lead this country down the path of Unexceptionalism. If it continues I fear deeply for my Grandchildren’s future..

Paul is wrong about Iran. Period.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-doctrine-of-american-unexceptionalism?r=et72d&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

[bobbiemcgee]

“Great MAGA King”? Thank you Joe. Trump will run on the best, most wonderful nickname ever. It has great in it twice and America. It’s beautiful, written by the smartest people.

I don’t know what’s funnier, that Joe said it or how Trump will react to it…

None of you guys say you voted for tRump so why would you care?

[Strange Brew]

None of you guys say you voted for tRump so why would you care?

Doesn’t matter for whom you voted, that is a funny as hell from Joe.

[bobbiemcgee]

Doesn’t matter for whom you voted

160 million would disagree.

[bobbiemcgee]

Oh good; a movie by someone who plead guilty to a campaign finance felony, who the former president pardoned.
And that is a person who will tell us about voter fraud?
Well, OK then.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/04/faulty-premise-2000-mules-trailer-about-voting-mai/

Looks like Lou's favorite network finally came clean on voter fraud. Of course they had to get sued to do it.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/pro-trump-network-finally-walks-back-bogus-claims-of-voter-fraud-139774021724

[noteggs]

I will track down the attorney who said it is a federal offense to gather outside a judges home or place of work with the intent to influence the outcome of a pending case.

Meanwhile, parents are termed terrorists for questioning a school board by a federal government who has no jurisdiction over a state legislated issue/law.

Irony here:

People on one side care about their children and how they are educated.

Other side, well you know the aborting stuff of children. Sorry, fetus termination

[Strange Brew]

160 million would disagree.

That’s nice Bobbie. It’s still funny.

[paulxu]

I've been wrong about a lot of things in my life...and I'm sure there are more to come.

For now I'll stand on the position that Trump screwed up a great opportunity to minimize the risk of Iran getting full nuclear bomb capabilities by backing out of the JCPOA when we had inspectors on the ground. Now we are trying hard to repair the damage.

Reminds me of Bush going to war about WMD's when we had inspectors in Iraq saying they couldn't find any. He convinced the country and it was a tragic and costly mistake.
So was backing out of the JCPOA.

[Masterofreality]

I've been wrong about a lot of things in my life...and I'm sure there are more to come.

For now I'll stand on the position that Trump screwed up a great opportunity to minimize the risk of Iran getting full nuclear bomb capabilities by backing out of the JCPOA when we had inspectors on the ground. Now we are trying hard to repair the damage.

Reminds me of Bush going to war about WMD's when we had inspectors in Iraq saying they couldn't find any. He convinced the country and it was a tragic and costly mistake.
So was backing out of the JCPOA.

From the article I posted:

“ But even the most cursory examination of the deal reveals that it resolves nothing. On the contrary, it permits Tehran to keep everything it needs to build a nuclear bomb, even including, for example, the secure bunker dug deep under a mountain near Fordow. Designed to shield Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities from attack, Fordow’s sole purpose is military in nature. We know this with certainty thanks to the nuclear archive that the Israelis captured in a Tehran warehouse in 2018. What’s more, the deal permits Tehran to make advances in its weapons program—by, for example, developing advanced centrifuges—even while its nuclear activities are still formally under international restrictions.

The upshot is this: By 2031, under the terms of this supposedly excellent deal, Iran will have a major, unfettered nuclear weapons program.”

Damage? Huh! The “Damage” that has been done is to the US relationship with Israel and Saudi Arabia which have big problems with Iran.
I suppose Paul would rather be friends with a regime that is supportive with Putin & Xi rather than ally like Israel, which is the Bulwark vs all aggression in the Middle East. Strange Bedfellows you prefer Paul.

And finally there is this from the article:

“
Among themselves, America’s allies wonder how such a crackpot idea (of the Iran deal & American Unexceptionalism) ever became the guiding concept of American foreign policy. Senior leaders in both Israel and the Gulf have told me personally that they find the Biden team’s policies incomprehensible and its explanations of those policies fundamentally incoherent, if not dishonest. In quiet voices in Tel Aviv, Israeli leaders are now talking about when, not if, they will have to take major military action to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.”

The “Deal” was badly designed from the start and based upon faulty assumptions. Iran will do what it does. It never stopped developing nuclear, just went underground.
Paul you are dead wrong

[XU_Lou]

Thank God for Joe Manchin.... again.

[paulxu]

The “Deal” was badly designed from the start and based upon faulty assumptions. Iran will do what it does. It never stopped developing nuclear, just went underground.
Paul you are dead wrong

Your "article" overlooks some basic facts. We knew about Fordow in 2008 when US, Britain and France announced it. The province of the captured documents has never been established but they indicate what happens when you pull out of an agreement you've signed...they began enriching to a higher level.
Prior to pulling out,there were inspectors in Fordow and the other facilities, monitoring activity.
Once we pulled out of the agreement, they started enriching towards weapons grade. Now we're trying to stop that.
You would think we would want to do that, not encourage them towards a nuclear weapon.

[XU_Lou]

Where's the baby formula, Joe?

[xuphan]

I've been wrong about a lot of things in my life...and I'm sure there are more to come.

For now I'll stand on the position that Trump screwed up a great opportunity to minimize the risk of Iran getting full nuclear bomb capabilities by backing out of the JCPOA when we had inspectors on the ground. Now we are trying hard to repair the damage.

Reminds me of Bush going to war about WMD's when we had inspectors in Iraq saying they couldn't find any. He convinced the country and it was a tragic and costly mistake.
So was backing out of the JCPOA.

Donald Trump, Joe Biden and the extreme left and right are never wrong in their eyes on anything they do. I commend you for admitting that you can be wrong at times. We all are wrong at times. Just funny to see people dig a deeper hole trying to defend themselves.

[bjf123]

Donald Trump, Joe Biden and the extreme left and right are never wrong in their eyes on anything they do. I commend you for admitting that you can be wrong at times. We all are wrong at times. Just funny to see people dig a deeper hole trying to defend themselves.

And that’s one of the major problems now. Both sides pander to the lunatic fringe on both sides of the aisle, while not caring about most of the country that falls in between.


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[xuphan]

And that’s one of the major problems now. Both sides pander to the lunatic fringe on both sides of the aisle, while not caring about most of the country that falls in between.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This 100%!

[XU_Lou]

Donald Trump, Joe Biden and the extreme left and right are never wrong in their eyes on anything they do. I commend you for admitting that you can be wrong at times. We all are wrong at times. Just funny to see people dig a deeper hole trying to defend themselves.

Oh God, here we go again with the centrist charade....

[Masterofreality]

Your "article" overlooks some basic facts. We knew about Fordow in 2008 when US, Britain and France announced it. The province of the captured documents has never been established but they indicate what happens when you pull out of an agreement you've signed...they began enriching to a higher level.
Prior to pulling out,there were inspectors in Fordow and the other facilities, monitoring activity.
Once we pulled out of the agreement, they started enriching towards weapons grade. Now we're trying to stop that.
You would think we would want to do that, not encourage them towards a nuclear weapon.

“Facts” equal speculation given as fact in Paul’s world. Whom am I to believe? A blue glasses partisan biased Trump hater or a Princeton Professor who’s living it is to know everything about Iranian and Middle Eastern politics? Hmmm. Seems like an easy answer.
Paul why do you continue to carry water for a terrorist murderous regime that reeks havoc all through the Persian Gulf, and for a former Administration who’s Foreign Policy failures are numerous?
We can only conclude that Paul, like Barack Obama and Joe Biden are easily duped. You would think that a Xavier educated person would be a bit more, shall we say, cognizant of the world?

[Strange Brew]

Donald Trump, Joe Biden and the extreme left and right are never wrong in their eyes on anything they do. I commend you for admitting that you can be wrong at times. We all are wrong at times. Just funny to see people dig a deeper hole trying to defend themselves.

Serious question. What POLICIES of the former President do you find extreme?

Also, the current POTUS just killed drilling leases in Alaska and the Gulf while gas prices are at records. That's either extreme or extremely dumb.

[paulxu]

Paul why do you continue to carry water for a terrorist murderous regime that reeks havoc all through the Persian Gulf, and for a former Administration who’s Foreign Policy failures are numerous?

You want a world where Iran is enriching uranium towards weapons grade because we didn't honor a deal our country struck, so Trump could play dictator like those he so admires?
Or do you want a world where people agree to reduce the threat of nuclear war and have an agreement that allows inspectors from the IAEA to monitor what goes on at the facilities.
That seems like an easy answer.

[Strange Brew]

And that’s one of the major problems now. Both sides pander to the lunatic fringe on both sides of the aisle, while not caring about most of the country that falls in between.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Elon Musk posted an interesting and funny sketch on where he has always stood and where things have gone which make him look right wing now.

[Masterofreality]

You want a world where Iran is enriching uranium towards weapons grade because we didn't honor a deal our country struck, so Trump could play dictator like those he so admires?
Or do you want a world where people agree to reduce the threat of nuclear war and have an agreement that allows inspectors from the IAEA to monitor what goes on at the facilities.
That seems like an easy answer.

Iran never stopped enriching uranium. They just moved it to places that couldn’t be seen. Iran doesn’t play by the world’s “principles”. (See Putin)
You are carrying water for proven Terrorists Paul. Ridiculous.
Weapon=2031 or earlier.

[noteggs]

Has anyone looked at their investments lately (or pick your weekly crises)? Already taking in the a** with inflation. And good gawd, we are talking about Trump again. Good times!

[paulxu]

Iran never stopped enriching uranium. They just moved it to places that couldn’t be seen. Iran doesn’t play by the world’s “principles”. (See Putin)
You are carrying water for proven Terrorists Paul. Ridiculous.
Weapon=2031 or earlier.

How can we have a reasonable discussion?
If they are hiding enrichment do you want to be on the outside looking in?
Or, on the ground with inspectors in the country.
Do you even understand the mistake we made in Iraq?
You read one opinion from a guy who is pushing the hawk side of foreign policy without ever bothering to read up on the facts.
It's disheartening.

[Strange Brew]

How can we have a reasonable discussion?
If they are hiding enrichment do you want to be on the outside looking in?
Or, on the ground with inspectors in the country.
Do you even understand the mistake we made in Iraq?
You read one opinion from a guy who is pushing the hawk side of foreign policy without ever bothering to read up on the facts.
It's disheartening.

What did we give up for the inspectors is a question I haven't seen you answer or ponder.

[xuphan]

Serious question. What POLICIES of the former President do you find extreme?

Also, the current POTUS just killed drilling leases in Alaska and the Gulf while gas prices are at records. That's either extreme or extremely dumb.


Serious question. What POLICIES of the former President do you find extreme?

Also, the current POTUS just killed drilling leases in Alaska and the Gulf while gas prices are at records. That's either extreme or extremely dumb.

My dislike for Trump has nothing to do with policies. I actually agree with some of his policies and ideas. However, there is more to be a president. The way he conducts himself is in my opinion the reason why he lost the previous election. The mocking of a disabled reporter. Saying multiple times as a campaign promise that Mexico would pay for a southern wall to be constructed. Said he would “drain the swamp” though it seems like the swamp has grown with more gators. The inability to work with members on the other party (Sorry but that’s your job as a politician). The insults and derogatory comments to main stay republicans like Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, Lindsay Graham, John McCain, etc. The phony “stop the steal” campaign after losing to Joe Biden. It says a lot about his presidency that he lost to Joe Biden. I also find it amusing that the “states” in question for voter fraud are only states that Democrats won. Seems like a strange coincidence. Telling the American public about that you will release your taxes only to be fighting tooth and nail not to have them released. Why tell the American people if you were never going to do follow through with what you said? You also have Jan 6th and Russia which resulted in 2 impeachments. Has never happened in this country before. Policy isn’t the only thing that makes a president though I am sure everything above is Fake News and the Earth is flat.

So tell me why some conservatives are in love with this man? A former Clinton donor and supporter. A man who degraded the military service of Republican John McCain because McCain. The things he said about McCain were unacceptable coming from a man who dodged the draft himself. Are you ok with him conducting himself like this? Do the conservatives not have any better options than Donald Trump? If 2024 turns into a Joe Biden vs Donald Trump rematch, I am going to write in Strange Brew for my vote.

Also, Joe Biden’s bad policies are a reflection of Joe Biden. It doesn’t change the fact that Trump was not a good president. It just shows that both men suck. Do better Democrats and Republicans. Get better people to run for president.

[paulxu]

What did we give up for the inspectors is a question I haven't seen you answer or ponder.

Not quite sure what you are asking. Can't find your original question, only this. Maybe I didn't go back far enough.

As to the drilling leases, there are over 9,000 unused leases. The oil companies aren't starting to drill on them because they are making so much money with what they've got. Do that, and then worry about Alaska.

[Masterofreality]

How can we have a reasonable discussion?
If they are hiding enrichment do you want to be on the outside looking in?
Or, on the ground with inspectors in the country.
Do you even understand the mistake we made in Iraq?
You read one opinion from a guy who is pushing the hawk side of foreign policy without ever bothering to read up on the facts.
It's disheartening.

“An Opinion from One Guy”. A guy who has always been right in his analyses before. Did you even read the preamble about him before the Essay?
“Facts” as you call them are nothing more than Parroting the side you WANT to be correct, even when it isn’t.
“Inspectors in the Country” won’t be traveling deep into hidden mountain caves because Iran won’t ever disclose their locations.
I once again submit that you are blatantly ignoring Iran’s terrorism and excusing their behavior just to get a “Deal” done- even if it is garbage.
You Obama and Biden negotiate in hopes. Hopes that the other side will act in good faith rather than realpolitik. Iran NEVER has negotiated in good faith and they still hate America, hate Israel and side with Putin and Xi.
No Paul. Stop your delusions.

[Masterofreality]

What did we give up for the inspectors is a question I haven't seen you answer or ponder.


Not quite sure what you are asking. Can't find your original question, only this. Maybe I didn't go back far enough.

As to the drilling leases, there are over 9,000 unused leases. The oil companies aren't starting to drill on them because they are making so much money with what they've got. Do that, and then worry about Alaska.

Isn’t it amazing that whenever Paul is asked a direct question his comeback is “I’m not quite sure what you are asking” then stays away from the topic completely?

[paulxu]

Isn’t it amazing that whenever Paul is asked a direct question his comeback is “I’m not quite sure what you are asking” then stays away from the topic completely?

What was the direct question?

[Masterofreality]

What was the direct question?

Strange asked: “What did we give up to have inspectors in the country (of Iran).
Seems pretty clear to me.

By the way, even your Bible- The New York Times- thinks this is a bad deal, leaving the US “weaker and meeker”.
Not just “One Man’s Opinion”.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/22/opinion/iran-nuclear-deal-biden.html

[paulxu]

“An Opinion from One Guy”. A guy who has always been right in his analyses before. Did you even read the preamble about him before the Essay?
“Facts” as you call them are nothing more than Parroting the side you WANT to be correct, even when it isn’t.
“Inspectors in the Country” won’t be traveling deep into hidden mountain caves because Iran won’t ever disclose their locations.
I once again submit that you are blatantly ignoring Iran’s terrorism and excusing their behavior just to get a “Deal” done- even if it is garbage.
You Obama and Biden negotiate in hopes. Hopes that the other side will act in good faith rather than realpolitik. Iran NEVER has negotiated in good faith and they still hate America, hate Israel and side with Putin and Xi.
No Paul. Stop your delusions.

Here's how easily you are duped.
The underground facility at Fordow has been know since it was announced in 2009 by the leaders of the US, France and Great Britain.
When the JCPOA was signed in 2015, Fordow was known about for a long time. Inspectors went in, and were there until Trump pulled us out of the agreement (not a wise course). Iran was complying with the agreement stipulations up until then,
Now they aren't since we pulled out,
Your "article" makes it sound like they just discovered some flagrant activity there. It ramped up production AFTER Trump pulled us out.
Yet you go on like it's some incredible find.
I sure wish you would study the full history of this issue and the effort by many people, including the United States, to stop the spread of nuclear weapons.
Sanctions alone don't work as North Korea has proven. Much better to have a framework of inspections.

[paulxu]

What did we give up for the inspectors is a question I haven't seen you answer or ponder.

I get it now. We primarily allowed them to sell oil on the international market and unfroze some of their overseas assets.

If you are really interested in understanding the JCPOA, here is a good one page summary:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/issues/foreign-policy/iran-deal

Iran gave up it's stockpile as agreed, and let inspectors in with unfettered access; until Trump pulled us out.

Here's another good recap if you want to know more particulars:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655

[Masterofreality]

Here's how easily you are duped.
The underground facility at Fordow has been know since it was announced in 2009 by the leaders of the US, France and Great Britain.
When the JCPOA was signed in 2015, Fordow was known about for a long time. Inspectors went in, and were there until Trump pulled us out of the agreement (not a wise course). Iran was complying with the agreement stipulations up until then,
Now they aren't since we pulled out,
Your "article" makes it sound like they just discovered some flagrant activity there. It ramped up production AFTER Trump pulled us out.
Yet you go on like it's some incredible find.
I sure wish you would study the full history of this issue and the effort by many people, including the United States, to stop the spread of nuclear weapons.
Sanctions alone don't work as North Korea has proven. Much better to have a framework of inspections.

Ha! BS.
Of course Fordow has been known about since 2009. No one is disputing that. However, as discovered by Israel raiding a Teheran warehouse in 2018, Iran never stopped enriching uranium for military purposes. They just shielded it before Trump claiming it was for domestic purposes only. PLUS, Iran has been called upon to GIVE UP NOTHING in this deal.
Just like China has given up nothing in climate negotiations other than empty promises while they build new coal plants.
Two of a kind and you, sir, are the Dupee.

But even the most cursory examination of the deal reveals that it resolves nothing. On the contrary, it permits Tehran to keep everything it needs to build a nuclear bomb, even including, for example, the secure bunker dug deep under a mountain near Fordow. Designed to shield Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities from attack, Fordow’s sole purpose is military in nature. We know this with certainty thanks to the nuclear archive that the Israelis captured in a Tehran warehouse in 2018. What’s more, the deal permits Tehran to make advances in its weapons program—by, for example, developing advanced centrifuges—even while its nuclear activities are still formally under international restrictions.

The upshot is this: By 2031, under the terms of this supposedly excellent deal, Iran will have a major, unfettered nuclear weapons program.”

One last thing. If this Iran deal is so great, why has Obama and soon Biden, go to great pains to not call it a treaty so it doesn’t have to be submitted to Congress for approval?
Know why? Because it would never be approved.
Nothing like Renegade Diplomacy… but that’s the characteristic of Guys like Obama and Biden who rule by Executive Order, even if it’s unconstitutional.

[X-band '01]

Meanwhile, the January 6 committee has officially sobpoenaed Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and a few other high-profile Republicans in contact with Donald Trump on 1/6 to testify before the committee.

Pretty sure they're all going to tell the committee to pound sand - leaving a question of how willing will Congress be to hold them in contempt if they decide not to play ball. They've already declined to voluntarily testify.

[xuphan]

Meanwhile, the January 6 committee has officially sobpoenaed Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and a few other high-profile Republicans in contact with Donald Trump on 1/6 to testify before the committee.

Pretty sure they're all going to tell the committee to pound sand - leaving a question of how willing will Congress be to hold them in contempt if they decide not to play ball. They've already declined to voluntarily testify.

I think you meant Gym Jordan.

[Masterofreality]

I think you meant Gym Jordan.

Yup the veil is off of the Name Calling “Centrist”.
The Leftist playbook is in full evidence.

[xuphan]

Haha, the name calling “centrist” Here is a non exhaustive list of Donald Trumps name calling. Didn’t think Donald Trump was part of the leftist playbook. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sleepy Joe
Crooked Hillary
Shifty Schiff
Crazy Bernie
Pochahontas
Low Energy Jeb
Wacky Susan Collins
Lyin Ted
Cryin Adam
Broken Old Crow Mitch
Fat Jerry
Little Marco Rubio
Cryin Chuck

[XU_Lou]

Haha, the name calling “centrist” Here is a non exhaustive list of Donald Trumps name calling. Didn’t think Donald Trump was part of the leftist playbook. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sleepy Joe
Crooked Hillary
Shifty Schiff
Crazy Bernie
Pochahontas
Low Energy Jeb
Wacky Susan Collins
Lyin Ted
Cryin Adam
Broken Old Crow Mitch
Fat Jerry
Little Marco Rubio
Cryin Chuck

So what's your point? Who cares? Trump isn't the president - it's the idiot you voted for that is. Do you think we're all a bunch of stupid Democrat voters here who can't see through your guise?

We're all still here waiting for that very first "extremist" label/speech on something Bobbie or Paul posts. Why hasn't that happened yet?

Come out of the closet, Phan, everyone here knows your political POV. Are you a starving actor on the side?

[Masterofreality]

Trump: -No new wars started under his administration.
-Lowered taxes causing an economic boom.
-Low inflation
- The Abraham Accords
- Defeated ISIS
-Lowest minority unemployment in history
-Appointed qualified Followers of the Constitution to the Supreme Court and didn’t virtue signal.
- Russia and a “Ukrainian influence call” re Hunter Biden were a hoax.
- Policies caused a real wage increase after inflation.
-Made America energy independent.
- Shamed NATO countries into actually spending their fair share on defense. Which, by the way, is helping to stop Russian aggression.

That is a damn good four year record for a “bad president”. A helluva lot better than 8 years of Charlatan Obama and this ludicrous period of Potemkin Biden.
You are who is hilarious with your attempts to fence sit. I deal in Reality.


Nothing I said above is untrue.
By the way, I did NOT vote for Trump either time..but not for the Democrat candidate either.
But you cannot ignore the facts. All you can do is name call, which, by the way, is a very leftist thing to do when you have no counter argument.
Hmmmmm.

Hmmmm. We’re not talking about Trump here, we’re talking about YOU, alleged Mr. Centrist XUPHAN.
See you never answered my points in the above posts, all you could do was call me a “Trump Troll”.
Answer the points rather than name calling and disappear, leftist.

[bobbiemcgee]

Meanwhile, the January 6 committee has officially sobpoenaed Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and a few other high-profile Republicans in contact with Donald Trump on 1/6 to testify before the committee.

Pretty sure they're all going to tell the committee to pound sand - leaving a question of how willing will Congress be to hold them in contempt if they decide not to play ball. They've already declined to voluntarily testify.

I don't suspect they will further incriminate themselves or take the 5th. The committee already has 1000 testimonies surrounding their behaviors which will soon be on TV every night.

[XU_Lou]

Not quite sure what you are asking. Can't find your original question, only this. Maybe I didn't go back far enough.

As to the drilling leases, there are over 9,000 unused leases. The oil companies aren't starting to drill on them because they are making so much money with what they've got. Do that, and then worry about Alaska.

Paul - do you enjoy peddling lies, or are you simply regurgitating MSNBC BS?

Please, provide us all with another example where an industry decides not to take market share when it's there for the taking. Otherwise, this would be the first time in history where companies across an entire industry have decided to leave money on the table.

Good grief, did XU not offer Econ 101 back in the 70s?

If you did a little research and stopped relying on the BS put out by your lying media, you would know that oil companies took a major hit during the Covid scam. Fortunately, they're trying to ramp up production. In fact, production is up 60% over the last year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2022/03/27/oil-companies-have-increased-drilling-by-60-in-one-year/?sh=343313211556

"many don’t understand the significant lag between drilling and oil production"

"Indeed, if you look at the financials of many oil companies, they lost money in four of the past ten years."

THIS, despite the Biden administration doing it's best to shackle the oil industry:

"The decision, which comes as U.S. gas prices have reached record highs, effectively ends the possibility of the federal government holding a lease sale in coastal waters this year. The Biden administration is poised to let the nationwide offshore drilling program expire next month without a new plan in place."

"the move would mark a victory for climate activists intent on curbing U.S. fossil fuel leasing."

"He temporarily halted new oil and gas leasing on federal land and waters a week after taking office." >>>>> If you were an oil executive/investor, would that give you confidence to "bet/risk" money on a lease where there may not be any oil in that well????

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/05/11/gulf-of-mexico-leasing-canceled/

"Candidate Joe Biden said of new production: “No more drilling on federal lands. No more drilling, including offshore. No ability for the oil industry to continue to drill, period, ends, number one.” As president, he quickly shut down a major pipeline project."

https://www.sacbee.com/news/environment/article261303202.html#storylink=cpy


Do you understand the difference between leases and permits?

"The Interior Department says oil and gas companies are able to drill on more than 9,000 already approved drilling permits on federal lands.

Oil companies aren’t drilling there because there’s too much regulation, said Kathleen Sgamma, president of the Western Energy Alliance.

“This administration has chosen to use as many of those pieces of red tape as they possibly can to wrap us up, to slow down production on federal lands,” she said."

New leasing will now come with a royalty rate of 18.75% — up from the previous 12.5%.

https://www.marketplace.org/2022/04/18/biden-administration-restarts-oil-and-gas-leases-on-federal-lands/

[bobbiemcgee]

Shell made 9 billion in 3 months, they can afford it. 3x the profit same qtr. last year.

[xuphan]

Hmmmm. We’re not talking about Trump here, we’re talking about YOU, alleged Mr. Centrist XUPHAN.
See you never answered my points in the above posts, all you could do was call me a “Trump Troll”.
Answer the points rather than name calling and disappear, leftist.


Hmmmm. We’re not talking about Trump here, we’re talking about YOU, alleged Mr. Centrist XUPHAN.
See you never answered my points in the above posts, all you could do was call me a “Trump Troll”.
Answer the points rather than name calling and disappear, leftist.

I don’t have to answer a single damn question, point or whatever nonsense you spew on here dude. You act like people must answer your every post. You don’t answer my questions so why should I answer yours? But I will because I have the freedom to think objectively and this is the last post I will be responding to you since you will be entering my ignore list. I have said in a previous post that I am sure you have read since you seem to live on here that I actually agree on some of Donald Trumps policies and ideas. However, policy making is only part of being a president. His conduct while in office was unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Go read my post about it if you want to know more. I could care less what you think or what you believe anymore. The evidence is all within this thread. Enjoy being on my ignore list! Also, Bobbie, XVILLE and Paul while we may have differences are pleasant to talk to. You and Lou are not.

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't put him on ignore. He's good comic relief. I enjoy sparring with the extreme right here.

[xuphan]

Don't put him on ignore. He's good comic relief. I enjoy sparring with the extreme right here.

Your right. It is comic relief. I’ll take them off. Don’t call them extreme though. It hurts their feelings.

[XU_Lou]

I don’t have to answer a single damn question, point or whatever nonsense you spew on here dude. You act like people must answer your every post. You don’t answer my questions so why should I answer yours? But I will because I have the freedom to think objectively and this is the last post I will be responding to you since you will be entering my ignore list. I have said in a previous post that I am sure you have read since you seem to live on here that I actually agree on some of Donald Trumps policies and ideas. However, policy making is only part of being a president. His conduct while in office was unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Go read my post about it if you want to know more. I could care less what you think or what you believe anymore. The evidence is all within this thread. Enjoy being on my ignore list! Also, Bobbie, XVILLE and Paul while we may have differences are pleasant to talk to. You and Lou are not.

So let me see if I got this right:

You get to come on here and call everybody that has a different POV than you an "extremist", but you don't seem to ever give us any specifics on where you stand on any topics. You won't answer any questions when cross-examined...why is that? Are you afraid that your answers might remove the "centrist" veil?

Got it!

#phony #we'renotfooled

[xuphan]

So let me see if I got this right:

You get to come on here and call everybody that has a different POV than you an "extremist", but you don't seem to ever give us any specifics on where you stand on any topics. You won't answer any questions when cross-examined...why is that? Are you afraid that your answers might remove the "centrist" veil?

Got it!

#phony #we'renotfooled


So let me see if I got this right:

You get to come on here and call everybody that has a different POV than you an "extremist", but you don't seem to ever give us any specifics on where you stand on any topics. You won't answer any questions when cross-examined...why is that? Are you afraid that your answers might remove the "centrist" veil?

Got it!

#phony #we'renotfooled

What would you like to know Lou. I’ll let you know how I stand on several issues below

Climate: liberal but not green new deal liberal
Gun Control: Conservative but no one needs an AK-47.
Abortion: Liberal: pro life but not my choice what others do with their bodies. That’s up to them and god.
Immigration: Conservative. Should be done legally
Taxes: Conservative but top earners need to pay their fair share which isn’t happening.
Capitalism: semi conservative though there needs to be way more money distribution throughout society through taxing the super rich.

I also believe that their should be term limits in congress. Pelosi, McConnell etc should have been gone a long time ago. I believe gerrymandering by both parties should be illegal. I believe there should not political lobbying done with money. I also believe that there should not be a Democratic or Republican Party. To me, both parties are no different than lobbyists which results in politicians favoring their political party instead of their constituents. I also believe each congressmen or women should earn the median or average salary of the constituents they serve.

I think my views are very “centrist” as you would say. Now it’s your turn. You seem to get offended by me calling you an extreme right wing conservative. Prove to me that you are not and I’ll stop calling you that. What liberal views do you have to suggest you are not an extreme conservative?

[XU_Lou]

What would you like to know Lou. I’ll let you know how I stand on several issues below

Climate: liberal but not green new deal liberal
Gun Control: Conservative but no one needs an AK-47.
Abortion: Liberal: pro life but not my choice what others do with their bodies. That’s up to them and god.
Immigration: Conservative. Should be done legally
Taxes: Conservative but top earners need to pay their fair share which isn’t happening.
Capitalism: semi conservative though there needs to be way more money distribution throughout society through taxing the super rich.

I also believe that their should be term limits in congress. Pelosi, McConnell etc should have been gone a long time ago. I believe gerrymandering by both parties should be illegal. I believe there should not political lobbying done with money. I also believe that there should not be a Democratic or Republican Party. To me, both parties are no different than lobbyists which results in politicians favoring their political party instead of their constituents. I also believe each congressmen or women should earn the median or average salary of the constituents they serve.

I think my views are very “centrist” as you would say. Now it’s your turn. You seem to get offended by me calling you an extreme right wing conservative. Prove to me that you are not and I’ll stop calling you that. What liberal views do you have to suggest you are not an extreme conservative?

Not very specific on many of those - pretty generic, in fact. Moreover, you've mis-characterized yourself on taxes and capitalism. Sorry, those aren't conservative positions that you have there. So, really, we still don't have a lot of information on where you stand, other than sounding like most libs.

How many genders are there?

Can men have babies?

Do you believe America is a racist country?

Do you believe that only white men are capable of racism?

Should our government pass laws or tax its citizens in ways to social engineer or promote various outcomes - or should all citizens be treated the same?

Your party tried to pass a law yesterday that would allow women (or is that "birthing people" in your parlance?) to abort their babies just before conception. You say that's up to them - but aren't you espousing murder at that point?

What exactly is an extreme conservative? Do you even know what conservatives believe in? Were the founding fathers extreme? Is the Constitution extreme? Is freedom extreme? Is self-determination extreme? Do you think Republican and Conservatives should have the same rights to free speech, or do you support the Democrat assault on our rights in the name of stopping "disinformation" or so-called "hate speech"? Do you believe in equal protection under the law, or do you prefer that Democrats continue to get away with crimes that Republicans are prosecuted for? Do you believe in America first, or should we be giving money and making deals to help other countries out to our detriment? Do you believe our gov't is pissing money away? If so, why would we ever give them any more?

[xuphan]

Not very specific on many of those - pretty generic, in fact. Moreover, you've mis-characterized yourself on taxes and capitalism. Sorry, those aren't conservative positions that you have there. So, really, we still don't have a lot of information on where you stand, other than sounding like most libs.

How many genders are there?

Can men have babies?

Do you believe America is a racist country?

Do you believe that only white men are capable of racism?

Should our government pass laws or tax its citizens in ways to social engineer or promote various outcomes - or should all citizens be treated the same?

Your party tried to pass a law yesterday that would allow women (or is that "birthing people" in your parlance?) to abort their babies just before conception. You say that's up to them - but aren't you espousing murder at that point?

What exactly is an extreme conservative? Do you even know what conservatives believe in? Were the founding fathers extreme? Is the Constitution extreme? Is freedom extreme? Is self-determination extreme? Do you think Republican and Conservatives should have the same rights to free speech, or do you support the Democrat assault on our rights in the name of stopping "disinformation" or so-called "hate speech"? Do you believe in equal protection under the law, or do you prefer that Democrats continue to get away with crimes that Republicans are prosecuted for? Do you believe in America first, or should we be giving money and making deals to help other countries out to our detriment? Do you believe our gov't is pissing money away? If so, why would we ever give them any more?

Haha, I tried LOU. You wanted me to be specific on topics and I gave you my personal beliefs on a number of issues. However, you seemed to dodge my question to you entirely. Let’s try this again. Give me some proof that you are not an extreme right wing conservative. What liberal views do you have to show you are not an extreme conservative? You seem to have a problem answering peoples questions on here. Try to take your own advice and stop dodging peoples questions.

[paulxu]

"The Interior Department says oil and gas companies are able to drill on more than 9,000 already approved drilling permits on federal lands.

Oil companies aren’t drilling there because there’s too much regulation, said Kathleen Sgamma, president of the Western Energy Alliance.

So you want some more land opened up? Do you see the ridiculousness of that position? What would you do with more leases...look at them and complain?

[xuphan]

So you want some more land opened up? Do you see the ridiculousness of that position? What would you do with more leases...look at them and complain?

He won’t answer your questions Paul. He will just ask you more questions as a way to deflect from what you are saying. This Lou guy is hilarious. Did he really graduate from X?

[XU_Lou]

So you want some more land opened up? Do you see the ridiculousness of that position? What would you do with more leases...look at them and complain?

Did you even read Sgamma's reason? Do you know something she doesn't? Do you know if there's enough oil in those approved areas that would allow oil companies to make a profit? Maybe those areas are just too cost prohibitive for some reason. Again, it's called Econ 101: if there's money to be made, an oil company is going to jump at the chance. You're just regurgitating excuses put out by the Biden regime that have no basis in reality.

[XU_Lou]

Haha, I tried LOU. You wanted me to be specific on topics and I gave you my personal beliefs on a number of issues. However, you seemed to dodge my question to you entirely. Let’s try this again. Give me some proof that you are not an extreme right wing conservative. What liberal views do you have to show you are not an extreme conservative? You seem to have a problem answering peoples questions on here. Try to take your own advice and stop dodging peoples questions.

How many genders are there?

[Xuperman]

Climate: liberal but not green new deal liberal
Gun Control: Conservative but no one needs an AK-47.
Abortion: Liberal: pro life but not my choice what others do with their bodies. That’s up to them and god.
Immigration: Conservative. Should be done legally
Taxes: Conservative but top earners need to pay their fair share which isn’t happening.
Capitalism: semi conservative though there needs to be way more money distribution throughout society through taxing the super rich.

I also believe that their should be term limits in congress. Pelosi, McConnell etc should have been gone a long time ago. I believe gerrymandering by both parties should be illegal. I believe there should not political lobbying done with money. I also believe that there should not be a Democratic or Republican Party. To me, both parties are no different than lobbyists which results in politicians favoring their political party instead of their constituents. I also believe each congressmen or women should earn the median or average salary of the constituents they serve.



The "phan" has courage......nice list!!! However, plenty of room for debate on most of it. My below posted issues are nearly bulletproof.


This is a good opportunity to pose the "can we all agree" question for our liberal leftist friends here, because this board reflects the political climate in our country quite nicely.

Is there ANYONE here who would disagree with any of these-

Letting mass numbers of ILLEGAL immigrants enter the USA without being tested for Covid and other contagious diseases is indefensible and dangerous to American Citizens?

Defunding Law Enforcement as policy defies logic and only foments more crime?

Biological Men should not be able to compete in Women's sports?

Term Limits for Federal Politicians would be effective in eliminating a lot of greed/corruption in DC?

This is a nice variety of issues.....both political and social.

Are we so divided that there is no common ground?

I would expect that for most of us, this thread has become tiresome. I posted this pages ago hoping to chip away at the extremist divide that is prevalent here and unfortunately our country in general.

But, as expected, our leftist Bullhorns here were not willing to comment..... crickets.

How about this. Can any of our liberal friends here post 4 things, political or social, that we all can agree on? Now THAT would be interesting!

[Xuperman]

How many genders are there?

Can men have babies?

Do you believe America is a racist country?

Do you believe that only white men are capable of racism?



I can't even believe that these questions have to be asked.......what the f#ck happened to us?

[xuphan]

How many genders are there?

Still waiting for you to answer my question there LOU.

[Xville]

Not very specific on many of those - pretty generic, in fact. Moreover, you've mis-characterized yourself on taxes and capitalism. Sorry, those aren't conservative positions that you have there. So, really, we still don't have a lot of information on where you stand, other than sounding like most libs.

How many genders are there?

Can men have babies?

Do you believe America is a racist country?

Do you believe that only white men are capable of racism?

Should our government pass laws or tax its citizens in ways to social engineer or promote various outcomes - or should all citizens be treated the same?

Your party tried to pass a law yesterday that would allow women (or is that "birthing people" in your parlance?) to abort their babies just before conception. You say that's up to them - but aren't you espousing murder at that point?

What exactly is an extreme conservative? Do you even know what conservatives believe in? Were the founding fathers extreme? Is the Constitution extreme? Is freedom extreme? Is self-determination extreme? Do you think Republican and Conservatives should have the same rights to free speech, or do you support the Democrat assault on our rights in the name of stopping "disinformation" or so-called "hate speech"? Do you believe in equal protection under the law, or do you prefer that Democrats continue to get away with crimes that Republicans are prosecuted for? Do you believe in America first, or should we be giving money and making deals to help other countries out to our detriment? Do you believe our gov't is pissing money away? If so, why would we ever give them any more?

You don’t understand the term centrist do you, lou? Let me educate you once again… it’s having objective viewpoints based on an issue and not just believing the stance of whatever party you are aligned with. Said another way, it could be on an issue such as capitalism… a centrist viewpoint would be people should be allowed to make the money that they make, but the ridiculous gap between the very top and the next level is a cause of concern and should be looked at to fix. “Extremism” is going to the furthest right or left that you can go politically, it’s not really that difficult to understand. For the left it would be the ridiculous notion that theee are more than two genders.

[XU_Lou]

You don’t understand the term centrist do you, lou? Let me educate you once again… it’s having objective viewpoints based on an issue and not just believing the stance of whatever party you are aligned with. Said another way, it could be on an issue such as capitalism… a centrist viewpoint would be people should be allowed to make the money that they make, but the ridiculous gap between the very top and the next level is a cause of concern and should be looked at to fix. “Extremism” is going to the furthest right or left that you can go politically, it’s not really that difficult to understand. For the left it would be the ridiculous notion that theee are more than two genders.

You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. You obviously know very little about my politics.

[XU_Lou]

Still waiting for you to answer my question there LOU.

It's pretty easy Phan, just answer that one question. Is it really that hard?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ug7Ntp_gvA

[Muskie in dayton]

A Centrist who is unwilling to debate points he considers extreme is merely another extremist.

[XU_Lou]

A Centrist who is unwilling to debate points he considers extreme is merely another extremist.

Exactly!

Ville and Phan are two peas in a pod on this one. Both love to come in here and label and criticize people for their views, but very seldom do they tell us what they think on the topic, or what their solutions are. Moreover, their line of attack is almost exclusively focused on those on the "right", which is very telling....

[xuphan]

A Centrist who is unwilling to debate points he considers extreme is merely another extremist.

When have I been unwilling to debate points? Lou said he didn’t know where I stood so I went through several political topics and gave him my opinion which answered his original question. In return, I asked him to show what liberal views he has to prove he is not an extreme right wing conservative? He has yet to answer that question. All he has done is dodge that question and ask about 20ish more questions about my stance. How many genders are there? There are two genders. There I have answered another question from LOU. Let’s see if he will finally answer my question.

[xuphan]

Exactly!

Ville and Phan are two peas in a pod on this one. Both love to come in here and label and criticize people for their views, but very seldom do they tell us what they think on the topic, or what their solutions are. Moreover, their line of attack is almost exclusively focused on those on the "right", which is very telling....

“Almost exclusively focused on those on the right”

LetÂ’s go through what I have said on here

Global Warming is happening and their is evidence that it is occurring. (Liberal point of view)
Donald Trump sucks (liberal point of view)
Joe Biden suck (conservative point of view)

DonÂ’t believe in Gun Control (conservative) General Public donÂ’t need an AR-15.
Abortion (Liberal) I am pro-life but itÂ’s not my decision or the governments decision on what others should do with their bodies.
Immigration (conservative) immigration should be done legally
Taxes (conservative though the top 2% need to pay their fair share)
Defund the police (conservative) Police need more money and more high powered equipment
BLM (conservatives) We have a great Justice system that works
Should be term limits in Congress
Gerrymandering should be banned
Lobbyist should not be able to pay politicians.

See the problem with LOU is that the only two topic we have discussed are Global Warming and Trump. Two topics that we do not agree on. I can see his point that maybe I am attacking him because we have different opinions. Maybe if the conversation were changed to immigration, BLM, Defund the police, gun control he would see that I do indeed have conservative right wing views. Also, who on here is saying that we should have open borders, defund the police, saying BLM group is legit, or there should be Gun Control? Tell me LOU who it is and I will gladly have a debate with them.

[Smails]

As to the drilling leases, there are over 9,000 unused leases. The oil companies aren't starting to drill on them because they are making so much money with what they've got. Do that, and then worry about Alaska.

Oh good lord..do you really believe this to be true?

For decades the left has been absolutely demonizing big oil for excessive greed and profit hoarding. Now all of the sudden you're changing course and saying they're content because they are making money elsewhere. Seriously? These guys live to drill and make money...that's all they do. If there's money to be made and oil to be harvested, they are going to do it. The vast majority of those leases are complete shit and this Administration knows it, the oil companies know it, and anyone with an ounce of economic sense knows it. You honestly think those greedy fucks are going to pass on the opportunity to make more money? Be better..

[Xville]

You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. You obviously know very little about my politics.

Your politics are whatever newsmax and red state tell you. It’s not rocket science.

And if it’s not… pick a policy and tell me how you differ. I bet the only way would be if your viewpoint is even more far to the right than them.

[Strange Brew]

“Almost exclusively focused on those on the right”

LetÂ’s go through what I have said on here

Global Warming is happening and their is evidence that it is occurring. (Liberal point of view)
Donald Trump sucks (liberal point of view)
Joe Biden suck (conservative point of view)

DonÂ’t believe in Gun Control (conservative) General Public donÂ’t need AK-47s.
Abortion (Liberal) I am pro-life but itÂ’s not my decision or the governments decision on what others should do with their bodies.
Immigration (conservative) immigration should be done legally
Taxes (conservative though the top 2% need to pay their fair share)
Defund the police (conservative) Police need more money and more high powered equipment
BLM (conservatives) We have a great Justice system that works
Should be term limits in Congress
Gerrymandering should be banned
Lobbyist should not be able to pay politicians.

See the problem with LOU is that the only two topic we have discussed are Global Warming and Trump. Two topics that we do not agree on. I can see his point that maybe I am attacking him because we have different opinions. Maybe if the conversation were changed to immigration, BLM, Defund the police, gun control he would see that I do indeed have conservative right wing views. Also, who on here is saying that we should have open borders, defund the police, saying BLM group is legit, or there should be Gun Control? Tell me LOU who it is and I will gladly have a debate with them.

Can't help myself. You need a special Federal firearms license to own an AK47 legally. An AR15 is not an AK. Very different weapons..

Also, this fair share nonsense needs to stop. It's neo-Marxist class warfare. The top 20% of wage earners pay nearly all the Federal income taxes in this country.

[xuphan]

Thanks for the correction Strange Brew. Still don’t think the general public needs an AR-15.

[Strange Brew]

Thanks for the correction Strange Brew. Still don’t think the general public needs an AR-15.

Why not? It's just a single shot rifle. Now it can shot a 5.56 round but good luck finding that. The general public is most likely loading .223 rounds.

It sort of resembles an M16 which is why it's "scary".

And frankly Phan, people have a RIGHT to own one.

[Strange Brew]

Shell made 9 billion in 3 months, they can afford it. 3x the profit same qtr. last year.

Yes, thy made 3x more than the bad year last year. Thank goodness.

Can you read a Financial Statement?

You’re not very good at this.

[xuphan]

People do have the right to bear arms. You are correct Sir. We just disagree on the power of arms people should be allowed to have.

[Strange Brew]

People do have the right to bear arms. You are correct Sir. We just disagree on the power of arms people should be allowed to have.

I don't care if you disagree. It's not up to you unless you'd like to propose an Amendment sir.

I'm not even really pro guns either but at least know what you're talking about.

[xuphan]

I don't care if you disagree. It's not up to you unless you'd like to propose an Amendment sir.

I'm not even really pro guns either but at least know what you're talking about.


Wait, so you don’t care that I disagree but you care enough to post a comment that you don’t care that I disagree? Strange comment.

[Strange Brew]

Wait, so you don’t care that I disagree but you care enough to post a comment that you don’t care that I disagree? Strange comment.

I care because what you wrote is asinine.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yes, thy made 3x more than the bad year last year. Thank goodness.

Can you read a Financial Statement?

You’re not very good at this.

I got paid to read them for 50 yrs so guess you don't know what the hell you're taking about. And I said SAME QTR. Get your facts straight.

[xuphan]

It’s not going to happen and it never was. Most people understood it was hyperbole. He did however start building a fence to help things and reached an agreement with Mexico that seemed to work pretty well. So that was nice.

Like this asinine comment?

https://youtu.be/Sq1k0nYF_LQ

https://youtu.be/sc7h6WOOh7M

[Xuperman]

Thanks for the correction Strange Brew. Still don’t think the general public needs an AR-15.

Do you consider yourself "General Public"? What is that? I sincerely want a basic definition plz. And BTW....WHO the F, do you suggest determines what the people " NEED"?

Me, however, have a sizable piece of land, nice house AND have a beautiful wife and Twin daughter's. I have a perimeter to be cognizant of.

I am in Brown Co.......I live right on the river but, nonetheless there is a Meth/Opioid element always present.

Me. In my situation. Me loves my 2nd Amendment. I like to have some knock down ability from distant.

Just in case some crazed junkie wants to get silly possibilities on MY STUFF.
:stickmove:

[bjf123]

Also, this fair share nonsense needs to stop. It's neo-Marxist class warfare. The top 20% of wage earners pay nearly all the Federal income taxes in this country.

Whenever I ask any friends on the left to tell me what a fair share is, all they can say is “more”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

I got paid to read them for 50 yrs so guess you don't know what the hell you're taking about. And I said SAME QTR. Get your facts straight.

Same qtr last year is what you wrote.

Further, why is that a problem for you?

[xuphan]

Do you consider yourself "General Public"? What is that? I sincerely want a basic definition plz. And BTW....WHO the F, do you suggest determines what the people " NEED"?

Me, however, have a sizable piece of land, nice house AND have a beautiful wife and Twin daughter's. I have a perimeter to be cognizant of.

I am in Brown Co.......I live right on the river but, nonetheless there is a Meth/Opioid element always present.

Me. In my situation. Me loves my 2nd Amendment. I like to have some knock down ability from distant.

Just in case some crazed junkie wants to get silly possibilities on MY STUFF.
:stickmove:


Do you consider yourself "General Public"? What is that? I sincerely want a basic definition plz. And BTW....WHO the F, do you suggest determines what the people " NEED"?

Me, however, have a sizable piece of land, nice house AND have a beautiful wife and Twin daughter's. I have a perimeter to be cognizant of.

I am in Brown Co.......I live right on the river but, nonetheless there is a Meth/Opioid element always present.

Me. In my situation. Me loves my 2nd Amendment. I like to have some knock down ability from distant.

Just in case some crazed junkie wants to get silly possibilities on MY STUFF.
:stickmove:

Well first off, sounds like you have a wonderful life going. Enjoy those blessing you have in your life and be thankful for what God has provided to you. To answer your question. The general public is the America citizen. I can’t answer who the F determines what the people need. The American citizens determine what the people need through their right to vote. That why the gun debate has and will continue to be a subjective debate among society. Are the American “Needs” today different than the founding fathers “Needs” who wrote the second amendment? Another debate.

I live in a rural county in northwest Ohio. Have a few acres, married the love of my life and have a couple of your kids. We got sex offenders, drug trafficking, sex trafficking all around us. I totally get the need for guns as a way to protect your family from the evils in this world. That being said, who determines the type of firepower that the average American citizen can purchase?

[Xuperman]

Whenever I ask any friends on the left to tell me what a fair share is, all they can say is “more”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Regardless of how ridiculous the term "fair share" is......it will never be enough.

Isn't the idea, that the rich pay more in taxes to be distributed to folks below the poverty line?

Ever been to a rural trailer park? How about urban housing projects?

Don't you lefties realize that ANY and ALL government dollars do ZERO to help low income families. 90% is going to that gutter lifestyle.

BTW.....I am an EX addict.

[xuphan]

Regardless of how ridiculous the term "fair share" is......it will never be enough.

Isn't the idea, that the rich pay more in taxes to be distributed to folks below the poverty line?

Ever been to a rural trailer park? How about urban housing projects?

Don't you lefties realize that ANY and ALL government dollars do ZERO to help low income families. 90% is going to that gutter lifestyle.

BTW.....I am an EX addict.

This 100%. The whole welfare system is enabling generations to remain poor. It’s becoming a lifecycle for families. Welfare is a lifestyle for some. Isn’t it like almost 50% of all school aged children in Ohio are eligible for free or reduced lunches? I don’t mind assistance for people in need but it shouldn’t be a way of life. If you are going to take Welfare, there should be a plan to get them off of welfare.

[Xuperman]

This 100%. The whole welfare system is enabling generations to remain poor. It’s becoming a lifecycle for families. Welfare is a lifestyle for some. Isn’t it like almost 50% of all school aged children in Ohio are eligible for free or reduced lunches? I don’t mind assistance for people in need but it shouldn’t be a way of life. If you are going to take Welfare, there should be a plan to get them off of welfare.

Now that makes sense...."COMMON sense"!

How about we waste time here posting stuff in agreement.....instead of the putrid political garbage.

[bjf123]

I don’t mind assistance for people in need but it shouldn’t be a way of life. If you are going to take Welfare, there should be a plan to get them off of welfare.

I remember many years ago some government agency in town was giving an award to a woman because she had spent something like 40 years in the same government housing project. That shouldn’t be awarded! Government housing should be a short term option, not a permanent address.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Same qtr last year is what you wrote.

yes and you wrote "same year" Wrong. They made 20 billion last year.

[Strange Brew]

yes and you wrote "same year" Wrong. They made 20 billion last year.

Yes, in a down year. Making their shareholders money.

Why do you care? Is it too much? What is your point?

Get over yourself and buy their stock. Jeez.

It closed at $56.70 today.

[paulxu]

Maybe there was something to Lou's movie after all:

https://www.inquirer.com/news/republican-mail-ballots-philadelphia-harvesting-billy-lanzilotti-20220507.html

[noteggs]

Ok, so let’s just see what happens when a company wants to use a few of 9,000 permits. A few that makes sense to drill on from a company standpoint.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-alaska-oil-gas-lease-sale-canceled/

Again another red herring argument.

[XU_Lou]

Al Mazrouei: Don’t blame crude oil producers for high fuel prices

According to al Mazrouei, major crude oil producers should not be blamed for the rise in fuel prices. He added that fingers should instead be pointed at the politicization of the oil market and high taxes in nations that import OPEC products.

“We are getting a fraction of what the companies and governments are making from those extra taxes,” the Emirati official said.

Both al Mazrouei and bin Salman also denounced a proposal in the U.S. Congress aimed at OPEC, explaining that the bill “would bring greater chaos to already strained energy market.” If it gets signed into law, the bill could push oil prices by threefold, the UAE’s energy minister noted.

U.S. Senate Bill 977 or the No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels (NOPEC) Act of 2021 was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee on May 5 in a 17-4 vote. With the committee’s approval, the bill now needs to be voted on by both chambers of Congress before President Joe Biden signs it into law.

https://noqreport.com/2022/05/14/oil-producing-giants-warn-of-dwindling-energy-supply-worldwide-as-fuel-prices-hit-record-highs/

Will America survive the imbecile in the White House - not a hyperbolic question...

[paulxu]

Can’t wait for Julio Rosas to cover the Insurrection surrounding the Supreme Court.
How many barricades and millions of dollars in damage will result from “Your Side” now Paul?
This is a good test of who covers what.


From Politico:
“ Law enforcement officials across the country are preparing for unrest in the wake of the Supreme Court’s anticipated reversal of Roe v. Wade. On Wednesday, more than 150 officials nationwide joined a call to discuss concerns about growing threats in the wake of the news, including potential danger to Supreme Court justices.”

Wow! Sounds awfully Insurrectionny

Not sure at this point if the thousands and thousands of people who marched yesterday in cities all across the country caused any widespread damage.
Haven't heard of any so far. Hopefully it was all peaceful.
Thousands and thousands marched in DC to the Supreme Court.
Have not heard or read of anyone assaulting police, overrunning barricades, breaking inside, threatening to hang judges, etc.

There was a far right inspired kid in Buffalo who killed 10 people at a supermarket.

[XU_Lou]

Not sure at this point if the thousands and thousands of people who marched yesterday in cities all across the country caused any widespread damage.
Haven't heard of any so far. Hopefully it was all peaceful.
Thousands and thousands marched in DC to the Supreme Court.
Have not heard or read of anyone assaulting police, overrunning barricades, breaking inside, threatening to hang judges, etc.

There was a far right inspired kid in Buffalo who killed 10 people at a supermarket.

Paul - do you understand FACTS???

Do you understand there is an internet?

Do you ever stop peddling lies??

"Except for the minor inconsistency that the lunatic shooter had a keen loathing for Fox News and conservatives. The self-identifying white supremacist also informed that “On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist.” "

I guess this is why Google Docs has blocked access to the shooter’s online manifesto - so people like you can continue to spread hate and lies. You should be ashamed of yourself...

https://headlineusa.com/leftist-swamp-rot-media-blames-maga-for-mass-shooting/

https://nationalfile.com/buffalo-shooter-described-himself-as-left-wing-trashed-conservatism/

[Xville]

Not sure at this point if the thousands and thousands of people who marched yesterday in cities all across the country caused any widespread damage.
Haven't heard of any so far. Hopefully it was all peaceful.
Thousands and thousands marched in DC to the Supreme Court.
Have not heard or read of anyone assaulting police, overrunning barricades, breaking inside, threatening to hang judges, etc.

There was a far right inspired kid in Buffalo who killed 10 people at a supermarket.

This is so effing stupid. There was a mass shooting with ten people killed and you feel the need to talk about his political ideology. Wtf is wrong with you, seriously? Let’s keep blaming the other side for all that’s wrong with the people of this country…,that will fix it. The constant finger pointing needs to stop.

[paulxu]

Whatever he calls himself in the manifesto, I understand the shooter was a proponent of the great replacement theory.
And that is something the right has pushed for a long time, notably by Tucker Carlson.
It was the same stuff chanted in Charlottesville.
We should work to stop the nonsense.

[XU_Lou]

Whatever he calls himself in the manifesto, I understand the shooter was a proponent of the great replacement theory.
And that is something the right has pushed for a long time, notably by Tucker Carlson.
It was the same stuff chanted in Charlottesville.
We should work to stop the nonsense.

More fucking lies - you're just attempting to smear the right with this garbage. So people who are concerned about illegal immigration aren't allowed to discuss the reality of the situation? I'm sorry if you and your loons on the left think this is somehow violent, or racist or whatever the hell you think it is.

[paulxu]

Well yeah...if someone kills a bunch of people and says they are targeting black people...I would say it's "violent and racist."

That's not "discussion." It's insanity.

[XU_Lou]

Well yeah...if someone kills a bunch of people and says they are targeting black people...I would say it's "violent and racist."

That's not "discussion." It's insanity.

Well, according to himself, he was a leftist - but I don't see where your smearing that group. The problem appears to be coming from your side of the aisle - so clean up your own mess first...

[paulxu]

Actions, not words, are often the key.

[XU_Lou]

Actions, not words, are often the key.

Hmmm....., lets ask Spock about this line of reasoning:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxLfOt1h840

Well, there you have it Paul, it's universal, you're out of your Vulcan mind.

[Smails]

There was a far right inspired kid in Buffalo who killed 10 people at a supermarket.

Wow..you really need to seek help. This is an outright lie and you are doubling down like a complete buffoon. Research is your friend, google is your friend but apparently you choose to ignore facts in the spirit of your political programming. What is it with you and taking people's suffering to frame a political argument? Seems to be a pattern you can't steer clear of and it's rather pathetic.

[paulxu]

Maybe this will help you understand:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/15/buffalo-shooting-replacement-theory-white-supremacy/

[Xuperman]

Maybe this will help you understand:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/15/buffalo-shooting-replacement-theory-white-supremacy/

Well, it is an opinion piece by Eugene Robinson.

This "replacement theory" only has some degree of legitimacy when you consider which party is most likely to support amnesty for illegals and the possibility of voting rights that come with it.

Regardless, no SANE person would use that or any other reason to commit that kind of heinous crime.

[Xville]

Maybe this will help you understand:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/15/buffalo-shooting-replacement-theory-white-supremacy/

Oh good another finger pointing piece. This is exactly the kind of propaganda nonsense that every sane person needs to fight against. This shooter didn’t go into a store and kill a bunch of people because of what some radical politician or Tucker Carlson said. The focus should be on mental health, family values and the process of dealing with someone who had made previous threats.

This finger pointing stuff is ridiculous.there are about four people on this thread who continually link shit, post it, and then say see it’s “their” fault. It’s sewage, just like most of Washington

[Masterofreality]

This 100%. The whole welfare system is enabling generations to remain poor. It’s becoming a lifecycle for families. Welfare is a lifestyle for some. Isn’t it like almost 50% of all school aged children in Ohio are eligible for free or reduced lunches? I don’t mind assistance for people in need but it shouldn’t be a way of life. If you are going to take Welfare, there should be a plan to get them off of welfare.


Now that makes sense...."COMMON sense"!

How about we waste time here posting stuff in agreement.....instead of the putrid political garbage.

And I can agree with this. ESPECIALLY since Millions of job openings, MANY that do not require a college degree, are found to be wanting workers. It is incredibly stupid for this government to even consider additional stimulus into an already bouncing economy that would have made inflation even worse. Thank Gawd for Joe Manchin and common sense.
The fact that “welfare” exists in this economy still is ludicrous. Get to work people!!!!

[Strange Brew]

Oh good another finger pointing piece. This is exactly the kind of propaganda nonsense that every sane person needs to fight against. This shooter didn’t go into a store and kill a bunch of people because of what some radical politician or Tucker Carlson said. The focus should be on mental health, family values and the process of dealing with someone who had made previous threats.

This finger pointing stuff is ridiculous.there are about four people on this thread who continually link shit, post it, and then say see it’s “their” fault. It’s sewage, just like most of Washington

Still laughing that the WASHINGTON Post ran an Op-Ed which demanded George WASHINGTON University change it's name. Honestly, I think the original George would be pretty happy if everyone dropped his name (he didn't stick around for a 3rd term for a reason). :)

[Masterofreality]

Not sure at this point if the thousands and thousands of people who marched yesterday in cities all across the country caused any widespread damage.
Haven't heard of any so far. Hopefully it was all peaceful.
Thousands and thousands marched in DC to the Supreme Court.
Have not heard or read of anyone assaulting police, overrunning barricades, breaking inside, threatening to hang judges, etc.

There was a far right inspired kid in Buffalo who killed 10 people at a supermarket.

“Far right inspired”. Did you read his manifesto or just parroting your left wing media?
The shooter hated Fox News and never mentioned Tucker Carlson. And the Buffalo killer says he specifically chose NY because their gun-control laws meant legally armed civilians would be limited to 10 round magazines. Thanks for gun control laws Lefties.

Next, The court decision hasn’t been officially announced yet. The weekend was a pregame. I wonder why they erected all those barricades in front of the Supreme Court building Paul and why a BiPartisan move on Congresses part to provide security to Supreme Court Justices took root? You might want to hold off on your victory claim until the second half is over.

Finally. Glad you support the killing of babies and the people who want to multiply that. Many more babies have died than on January 6.

[XU_Lou]

And now I think we know why the left is peddling this phony, coordinated "replacement theory" garbage - it was a preemptive first strike against this (remember: "never let a crisis go to waste"):


GOP ‘majority’ eye no-amnesty immigration roadmap

Hopeful that the administration’s border failure has ended the forever talk of “comprehensive” immigration reform, a sizable coalition of conservatives on Wednesday presented a new approach aimed at limiting the historic flood of illegal crossings under President Joe Biden.

Led by the Heritage Foundation and other key immigration policy groups, the coalition is pushing a no-amnesty blueprint that a new and likely GOP Congress can approve after the midterm elections, giving it a basis for negotiations with the Biden team.

Offered as a letter to congressional leaders, it reads: “When the 118th Congress opens with new majorities in both chambers, it will be in large part because Americans have rejected the Biden administration’s purposeful dismantling of our nation’s borders. Congress should be emboldened with the mandate to immediately legislate unflinchingly, ensuring that neither this nor any future administration are again able to weaponize the loopholes in the immigration system to purposefully drive mass illegal immigration to the United States.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/gop-majority-eye-no-amnesty-immigration-roadmap

[Masterofreality]

Whatever he calls himself in the manifesto, I understand the shooter was a proponent of the great replacement theory.
And that is something the right has pushed for a long time, notably by Tucker Carlson.


This is Bullshit. Do you even know what GRT is? This is what: Great Replacement" theory is an antisemitic theory of world-controlling Jews purposely transporting large amounts of immigrants into the United States to change the racial makeup of the country. It’s been coopted by left wing journalists to try to smear the right over their accurate concerns on immigration policies.
In the case of Buffalo, journalists on Twitter and national news outlets jumped right on their inaccurate narrative, pointing the finger squarely at Fox News and Tucker Carlson with the sole purpose of conflating the antisemitic theory peddled online with the very real concerns of an open immigration policy that right now is causing a historic influx of migrants across the southern border, as well as human trafficking and narcotics. These concerns are shared within border communities, which themselves have seen a political demographic shift since the 2020 election, with Hispanics in these family communities turning against traditional Democratic policies.
Finally, In the alleged Buffalo shooter’s own manifesto, he slanders Fox News as being run by Jews and part of the global replacement theory conspiracy. He never mentions Tucker Carlson. He also disowns the conservative movement, labeling it corporatism, and echoes the sentiments of the far Left when it comes to eco-fascism.
You are confused Paul. Stop reading the Washington Pravda and do some research.

[bobbiemcgee]

It is certainly a sad state nowadays. When i was 17-18 I was busy playing baseball, chasing girls, drinking beer, going to parties and picnics every weekend, working on my '49 Chev and working p/t to afford all the above. Guess now it is fashionable for these mfer's to hang all day on the internet poisoning their minds and buy guns. Sad.

[xuphan]

It is certainly a sad state nowadays. When i was 17-18 I was busy playing baseball, chasing girls, drinking beer, going to parties and picnics every weekend, working on my '49 Chev and working p/t to afford all the above. Guess now it is fashionable for these mfer's to hang all day on the internet poisoning their minds and buy guns. Sad.

100% Agree. Kids these day can instantly access pretty much everything online and/or on TV. The next generation of children are a scary dark bunch who have less parental involvement and supervision.

[Strange Brew]

100% Agree. Kids these day can instantly access pretty much everything online and/or on TV. The next generation of children are a scary dark bunch who have less parental involvement and supervision.

I feel old...:)

Dang kids these days..

[paulxu]

Finally. Glad you support the killing of babies and the people who want to multiply that. Many more babies have died than on January 6.

I don't believe I've ever noted my stance on this issue.
I will note some history though.
For only 156 years of the 2000 years of the Catholic Church has abortion been outlawed. During the other centuries is was accepted. Things often change.


In the early Roman Catholic church, abortion was permitted for male fetuses in the first 40 days of pregnancy and for female fetuses in the first 80-90 days. Not until 1588 did Pope Sixtus V declare all abortion murder, with excommunication as the punishment. Only 3 years later a new pope found the absolute sanction unworkable and again allowed early abortions. 300 years would pass before the Catholic church under Pius IX again declared all abortion murder. This standard, declared in 1869, remains the official position of the church, reaffirmed by the current pope.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12340403/

[Strange Brew]

I don't believe I've ever noted my stance on this issue.
I will note some history though.
For only 156 years of the 2000 years of the Catholic Church has abortion been outlawed. During the other centuries is was accepted. Things often change.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12340403/

Does that make it right?

People did nutty stuff in the past so it's ok now? You're not a very "enlightened" person...

It's not about religion for some of us Paul.

Just to be clear (borrowed from Obama), if Roe v. Wade is overturned it doesn't make anything illegal.

[paulxu]

Does that make it right?

People did nutty stuff in the past so it's ok now? You're not a very "enlightened" person...

It's not about religion for some of us Paul.

Just to be clear (borrowed from Obama), if Roe v. Wade is overturned it doesn't make anything illegal.

I didn't say it made it right.
I'm probably not enlightened, but if some nutty person (a pope) changes course again, it would be challenging.
Curious, if not religion, what is it about for you?
If Roe is overturned, many state laws would instantly make abortion illegal.

[Strange Brew]

I didn't say it made it right.
I'm probably not enlightened, but if some nutty person (a pope) changes course again, it would be challenging.
Curious, if not religion, what is it about for you?
If Roe is overturned, many state laws would instantly make abortion illegal.

Biology.

Right, States could make it illegal because IT IS NOT A RIGHT in the Constitution. Write your Congressperson to propose an Amendment.

[paulxu]

Biology.

Right, States could make it illegal because IT IS NOT A RIGHT in the Constitution. Write your Congressperson to propose an Amendment.

Not here to propose either way.
What is the biology reference? Are you against abortions because of biology?

[Strange Brew]

Not here to propose either way.
What is the biology reference? Are you against abortions because of biology?

Then why are you here?

Well, the fetus (a stage of human development like adolescence) is a human being with unique DNA separate from the parents. Abortion kills that unique human. Which is murder. Would like to revisit murder laws Paul?

[paulxu]

Then why are you here?

Well, the fetus (a stage of human development like adolescence) is a human being with unique DNA separate from the parents. Abortion kills that unique human. Which is murder. Would like to revisit murder laws Paul?

Thanks for the clarification about your position.
I'm not completely up on the science, but a few things are troubling.
When we make abortion a black and white issue, from the moment of conception, that doesn't work for me.
Why? About 2 % of embryos become ectopic pregnancies outside the uterus. They will never be viable.
Most are miscarried, but some need to have medical intervention for the health of the mother; either medicine or surgery.
If you are absolute about conception, and it's "murder" to help that mother remove that embryo to protect her health, then I disagree with that.

Perhaps you are OK with abortion up to the point the embryo becomes a fetus in the eighth week.
If I've misunderstood, my apologies.

[Masterofreality]

I don't believe I've ever noted my stance on this issue.
I will note some history though.
For only 156 years of the 2000 years of the Catholic Church has abortion been outlawed. During the other centuries is was accepted. Things often change.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12340403/

I don’t think I ever referenced the Church. Some misdirection here, huh.
But babies are babies. Abortion is killing a life. Period.

By the way. Nice of you to skip over my post about Replacement theory where you tried to spout utter Bullshit based upon your trash media narratives.

[Strange Brew]

Thanks for the clarification about your position.
I'm not completely up on the science, but a few things are troubling.
When we make abortion a black and white issue, from the moment of conception, that doesn't work for me.
Why? About 2 % of embryos become ectopic pregnancies outside the uterus. They will never be viable.
Most are miscarried, but some need to have medical intervention for the health of the mother; either medicine or surgery.
If you are absolute about conception, and it's "murder" to help that mother remove that embryo to protect her health, then I disagree with that.

Perhaps you are OK with abortion up to the point the embryo becomes a fetus in the eighth week.
If I've misunderstood, my apologies.

An embryo is a developing unique human. The losses of life you mention are natural, tragic processes. Intentionally killing a viable human is murder Paul.

However, ectopic pregnancies are another issue as the human becomes a threat to the life of another human. Which is unbelievably tragic but I think most States would allow the procedure in that circumstance.

I don't think the issue is about those situations however.

[paulxu]

An embryo is a developing unique human. The losses of life you mention are natural, tragic processes. Intentionally killing a viable human is murder Paul.

However, ectopic pregnancies are another issue as the human becomes a threat to the life of another human. Which is unbelievably tragic but I think most States would allow the procedure in that circumstance.

I don't think the issue is about those situations however.

I believe some states will be making the ectopic situation against the law.
An embryo (while certainly unique) is not a "viable" entity. At a certain point a fetus is.

[xuphan]

Then why are you here?

Well, the fetus (a stage of human development like adolescence) is a human being with unique DNA separate from the parents. Abortion kills that unique human. Which is murder. Would like to revisit murder laws Paul?

“Abortion kills that unique human”. I think ending Abortion would be a great start to ending other societal issues as well that plague this country. How is society going to protect this “unique human”outside the womb? I assume we want to get the best out of each and every unique human so how is that going to be done? How does the US address sexual abuse, physical abuse, health care, broken homes, mental health, poverty, school truancy, homelessness, drugs, etc? What is the plan to get the most out of these “unique humans” without them having to rely on government assistance? We seem to be able to ship millions to other parts of the world but not spend money here to fix our issues at home. What is the plan to care for these “unique humans”?

[paulxu]

I don’t think I ever referenced the Church. Some misdirection here, huh.
But babies are babies. Abortion is killing a life. Period.

By the way. Nice of you to skip over my post about Replacement theory where you tried to spout utter Bullshit based upon your trash media narratives.

I didn't skip over it. What is there to discuss? From what I understand, the troubled 18 year old that killed the people was targeting black people because he had become radicalized to believe in a replacement theory...most often pushed (and cleverly) by even main stream Republicans now.
No sense in discussing it when people have become blinded to things.

Is a 3 week old embryo that has lodged in the Fallopian tube and is threatening the life of the mother, a "baby"? And if a doctor helps that mother to protect her health/life by aborting the pregnancy....has he "killed?"

[Masterofreality]

I didn't skip over it. What is there to discuss? From what I understand, the troubled 18 year old that killed the people was targeting black people because he had become radicalized to believe in a replacement theory...most often pushed (and cleverly) by even main stream Republicans now.
No sense in discussing it when people have become blinded to things.

Is a 3 week old embryo that has lodged in the Fallopian tube and is threatening the life of the mother, a "baby"? And if a doctor helps that mother to protect her health/life by aborting the pregnancy....has he "killed?"

You understand wrong because you didn’t take the time to analyze the manifesto or understand what the Replacement Theory really is. On top of that, the kid was mentally disturbed, not “radicalized” by Tucker Carlson. Plus you refuse to acknowledge how the conspiracy of Replacement Theory has been coopted by your Pravda friends to slander those critical of the border mess. Basically Paul, you are now the QAnon (which is a myth) that you *think* rightists are by believing in conspiracies.

And, yes, a 3 week old is a baby. If the life of the Mother is threatened, truly, then yes, it is still killing….but in Self Defense, which is justifiable.
No less sorrowful, though. And the baby deserves a funeral and resting place.

Back to Strange Brew’s point above. Interesting that when referring to a cluster of cells that are active, say on another planet, “Science” enthusiastically declares “There is LIFE on that planet”. However, when that cluster of active cells happens to be in a womb, “Science” cannot bring it self to call it life, but rationalize.
The typical hypocritical status of the left. The same kind of hypocrisy that will charge a double murder to a perpetrator who shoots and kills a pregnant woman. But they can’t call it murder when the woman kills her healthy in womb baby.
Capiche’?

[Strange Brew]

“Abortion kills that unique human”. I think ending Abortion would be a great start to ending other societal issues as well that plague this country. How is society going to protect this “unique human”outside the womb? I assume we want to get the best out of each and every unique human so how is that going to be done? How does the US address sexual abuse, physical abuse, health care, broken homes, mental health, poverty, school truancy, homelessness, drugs, etc? What is the plan to get the most out of these “unique humans” without them having to rely on government assistance? We seem to be able to ship millions to other parts of the world but not spend money here to fix our issues at home. What is the plan to care for these “unique humans”?

Those issues are not unique to low income individuals.

Adoption is also an option.

[XU_Lou]

I didn't skip over it. What is there to discuss? From what I understand, the troubled 18 year old that killed the people was targeting black people because he had become radicalized to believe in a replacement theory...most often pushed (and cleverly) by even main stream Republicans now.
No sense in discussing it when people have become blinded to things.



So when blacks and Democrats discuss gentrification, should we assume that they are also "cleverly" fomenting hate and violence?

[xuphan]

Those issues are not unique to low income individuals.

Adoption is also an option.

Adoption has been around and hasn’t done much for the current population. Don’t see how it’s going to much for the “unique humans”. Foster homes are already overcrowded so not much help their either. Not seeing a solution here. Thanks for responding though and answering the question.

[Masterofreality]

See, Paul wants to paint Conservatives and Republicans as purveyors of “Great Replacement Theory” because the Pravda press he follows use that tack to divert the argument that Conservatives use against illegal immigration. GRT is a Conspiracy Theory that has been co-opted by left leaning journos who influence Paul and defend Biden’s mess of a policy.
Here is what is reality and not a conspiracy;

There were 234,088 migrants encountered at the Southern border in April, per a DHS court filing today. That’s the highest number in DHS history.
117,989 migrants were released into the U.S. in April. (Are THESE PEOPLE part of a “Replacement”? Ostensibly to help Democrats win elections?)
113,248 were removed, including 96,908 expelled via Title 42.

This is a disgrace and a joke.

[Strange Brew]

Adoption has been around and hasn’t done much for the current population. Don’t see how it’s going to much for the “unique humans”. Foster homes are already overcrowded so not much help their either. Not seeing a solution here. Thanks for responding though and answering the question.

Nice to meet you Francis Galton. Keep working hard on the "useless eater" problem.

[xuphan]

Nice to meet you Francis Galton. Keep working hard on the "useless eater" problem.

Wow, calling these “unique humans” as you say “useless eaters”. Bravo Brew. Bravo. Make them live so they can suffer huh? Checkmate Brew!

[Strange Brew]

Wow, calling these “unique humans” as you say “useless eaters”. Bravo Brew. Bravo. Make them live so they can suffer huh? Checkmate Brew!

You missed the point. Nice try.

Your post was 19th C, early 20th C. Eugenics.

It's all been done before, Barenaked Ladies...

[xuphan]

You missed the point. Nice try.

Your post was 19th C. early 20th C. Eugenics.

It's all been done before, Barenaked Ladies...

I didn’t miss the point. Nice try though.

[Strange Brew]

I didn’t miss the point. Nice try though.

Do yourself a favor and look up Galton, Sanger, Eugenics and Planned Parenthood. It's an interesting read.

You'll find that humans can be terrible trying to do "good".

[Strange Brew]

I believe some states will be making the ectopic situation against the law.
An embryo (while certainly unique) is not a "viable" entity. At a certain point a fetus is.

I hope not. THAT is a horrific, legit medical decision that should be between a mother/father/doctor.

Yes, embryos sometimes don't attach. That's not what we're discussing.

Not a Dr. but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...:)

[bobbiemcgee]

THESE PEOPLE part of a “Replacement”? Ostensibly to help Democrats win elections?)

Nothing new here. Native Americans suffered 98% replacement.

[Masterofreality]

I believe it is instructive to review the Pertinent 14th Ammendment in this abortion discussion. It is clearly on the side that the unborn are “persons” and equally protected under the law. This was what was so egregiously wrong in the Roe decision.
The legal argument for protection of US persons born or unborn is straightforward. The 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, which forbids any state from “deny[ing] to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,” was understood to include both born and unborn “person[s].” The upshot is that, while a state legislature can make reasonable distinctions in its criminal code’s homicide statutes, a state’s criminal code cannot effectuate a discriminatory regime that solely protects those who are born but not those who are unborn. Put another way, if a state bans homicide, then it has to generally ban abortion.
As the esteemed natural law philosopher John Finnis and well-known Princeton University professor Robert P. George put it in their amicus brief in Dobbs:
[T]he Fourteenth Amendment, like the Civil Rights Act of 1866 it was meant to sustain, codified equality in the fundamental rights of persons—including life and personal security—as these were expounded in [Sir William] Blackstone’s Commentaries [on the Laws of England] and leading American treatises.
The Commentaries exposition began with a discussion (citing jurists like Coke and Bracton) of unborn children’s rights as persons across many bodies of law. Based on these authorities and landmark English cases, state high courts in the years before 1868 declared that the unborn human being throughout pregnancy “is a person” and hence, under “civil and common law,” “to all intents and purposes a child, as much as if born.”

As Abraham Lincoln famously argued in his 1854 Peoria speech, the relevant question is “whether a Negro is not or is a man.” So, too, is the relevant question in the abortion debate whether the unborn child is not or is a person. We happen to know the answer to that question. It is.

So the “morality” aside. Abortion is unconstitutional and the Federal Government has zero power in ruling here.

Take that Leftys.

[xuphan]

This is one sad thread. Any mods want to take this thread behind the barn and put it out of its misery?

[X-band '01]

Nah, better to burn my brain cells in one place as opposed to thousands of others that will inevitably spring up.

[Masterofreality]

This is one sad thread. Any mods want to take this thread behind the barn and put it out of its misery?

Hmmmm. Education is “sad”.
Just about the correct tone for the Left since they kept schools closed last year in Blue States & Cities.

[Muskie in dayton]

This is one sad thread. Any mods want to take this thread behind the barn and put it out of its misery?
“My stupid ideas keep getting exposed. Can we censor?”

[paulxu]

Hmmmm. Education is “sad”.
Just about the correct tone for the Left since they kept schools closed last year in Blue States & Cities.

Perhaps they were trying to keep the death rate down.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/red-blue-america-glaring-divide-covid-19-death/story?id=83649085

[xuphan]

Hmmmm. Education is “sad”.
Just about the correct tone for the Left since they kept schools closed last year in Blue States & Cities.

Education or political opinions? I’ll take political opinions for 100.

Also, DeWine a as you would say Right kept Schools and businesses closed for several months at the beginning of the pandemic. You know this but failed to mention it as it would ruin your hard on for the left. Here is some education and brutal fact you probably don’t want to hear. The Lefts aren’t going away just like the rights aren’t going away. This country has and will always have differences that you will never solve on Xavierhoops.com with your political opinions.

[Masterofreality]

Perhaps they were trying to keep the death rate down.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/red-blue-america-glaring-divide-covid-19-death/story?id=83649085

Ya. Way to deflect to an article that says nothing about Schools. Do you even read?
Florida & Texas kept schools open. So did Sweden and many other places. There was ZERO appreciable increase in child Covid death in those states.
But in the states where schools were shut down and places like Chicago, kids education was incredibly damaged and unfortunately, the most disadvantaged kids who HAD to attend public schools were the most hurt.

Your response is ludicrous.

[Masterofreality]

Education or political opinions? I’ll take political opinions for 100.

Also, DeWine a as you would say Right kept Schools and businesses closed for several months at the beginning of the pandemic. You know this but failed to mention it as it would ruin your hard on for the left. Here is some education and brutal fact you probably don’t want to hear. The Lefts aren’t going away just like the rights aren’t going away. This country has and will always have differences that you will never solve on Xavierhoops.com with your political opinions.

The “beginning of the Pandemic” was 2020, dummy. I said “last year”. Schools were not closed in Ohio in the 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 school years by order of DeWine.
That’s why your ridiculous statement is empty words.

[xuphan]

The “beginning of the Pandemic” was 2020, dummy. I said “last year”. Schools were not closed in Ohio in the 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 school years by order of DeWine.
That’s why your ridiculous statement is empty words.

Ah, MasterofPoo make it last year so he can exclude Ohio and DeWine. Doesn’t matter, both instances caused harm to children. Cute play with the year thing though.

[xuphan]

“My stupid ideas keep getting exposed. Can we censor?”

“Dead horse continues to be beaten. What’s the point?” Fixed it for you.

[Masterofreality]

Ah, MasterofPoo make it last year so he can exclude Ohio and DeWine. Doesn’t matter, both instances caused harm to children. Cute play with the year thing though.

WTF are you talking about troll? My original tweet that you quoted said “last year” before you even brought up DeWine!
Whose fault is it that you have a comprehension problem and cannot debate properly?
Take the L and leave idiot.

[xuphan]

WTF are you talking about troll? My original tweet that you quoted said “last year” before you even brought up DeWine!
Whose fault is it that you have a comprehension problem and cannot debate properly?
Take the L and leave idiot.

You know WTF I am talking about troll. Your conservative propaganda can’t save you on this one. Also, you only tweet on twitter moron. You post on Xavierhoops.com. Seek help. It’s never to late.

[Masterofreality]

Not worth a response to cretins.

[GoMuskies]

I'm so happy I live in a place where my kids have been in school in person nearly every regular school day starting in August 2020. Sure, we had the abrupt end to school after spring break in 2020, but that actually set up probably the best two week vacation of our lives to Escalante, Utah where we basically had the Grand Staircase national monument and all its fantastic features to ourselves in April 2020. My kids are going to come out of this pandemic having barely skipped a beat in their lives. I suspect when they go off to college in a few years they're going to meet a lot of kids whose Covid experiences are going to have seriously negatively affected them.

[Masterofreality]

I'm so happy I live in a place where my kids have been in school in person nearly every regular school day starting in August 2020. Sure, we had the abrupt end to school after spring break in 2020, but that actually set up probably the best two week vacation of our lives to Escalante, Utah where we basically had the Grand Staircase national monument and all its fantastic features to ourselves in April 2020. My kids are going to come out of this pandemic having barely skipped a beat in their lives. I suspect when they go off to college in a few years they're going to meet a lot of kids whose Covid experiences are going to have seriously negatively affected them.

Yup.
Talk to Chicago.

[paulxu]

Go, glad things worked out for you and your family.
Where states chose to hold kids out, it's understandable I think.
Kids were remarkably resilient to the virus, but 20% of cases were kids.
So, being in school and spreading it, and then taking it home to more vulnerable people is a consideration.
I believe people who made the decisions to close schools, did so trying to control a health issue; not as some would think for any political gain.
We've lost a million; that's a lot of folks.

[Masterofreality]

.
We've lost a million; that's a lot of folks.

700,000 under “Shut Down the Virus Biden”. In a year and a half!
This with vaccines and better therapeutics.
Let’s Go Brandon!! Get that 2 million!!!

[Smails]

“Dead horse continues to be beaten. What’s the point?” Fixed it for you.

Yet you continue to post on this thread. I've got an idea you can chew on: If you don't like the content of a particular thread, don't read it or don't post on it.

Or you can cry to the mods and see where that gets you.

[GoMuskies]

Go, glad things worked out for you and your family.
Where states chose to hold kids out, it's understandable I think.
Kids were remarkably resilient to the virus, but 20% of cases were kids.
So, being in school and spreading it, and then taking it home to more vulnerable people is a consideration.
I believe people who made the decisions to close schools, did so trying to control a health issue; not as some would think for any political gain.
We've lost a million; that's a lot of folks.

I don't know if it was an easy decision. i'm just thankful it's the decision those in my area made.

[noteggs]

I'm so happy I live in a place where my kids have been in school in person nearly every regular school day starting in August 2020. Sure, we had the abrupt end to school after spring break in 2020, but that actually set up probably the best two week vacation of our lives to Escalante, Utah where we basically had the Grand Staircase national monument and all its fantastic features to ourselves in April 2020. My kids are going to come out of this pandemic having barely skipped a beat in their lives. I suspect when they go off to college in a few years they're going to meet a lot of kids whose Covid experiences are going to have seriously negatively affected them.

Yea, my youngest’s college career has been less than stellar in terms of social aspects. Freshman year they separated roommates at the beginning of the year. Classes were online for the most part minus a few labs. Masks were required during her Sophomore year except last two months. Thank gawd teachers union finally gave their blessing. Socially, she felt like her Sophomore year was more like her Freshman.

Oh well, at least she has an academic foundation where a lot K through 8 do not. As you mentioned, some decisions will have major impact on some kids. Unfortunately for college kids, you wonder about the psychological toll. Just hope mine has a sense of normalcy in her last two.

[bobbiemcgee]

I camped at Mesa Verde (only car in campground) and then Moab last Monday and Tuesday. No crowds yet.

[Muskie in dayton]

Go, glad things worked out for you and your family.
Where states chose to hold kids out, it's understandable I think.
Kids were remarkably resilient to the virus, but 20% of cases were kids.
So, being in school and spreading it, and then taking it home to more vulnerable people is a consideration.
I believe people who made the decisions to close schools, did so trying to control a health issue; not as some would think for any political gain.
We've lost a million; that's a lot of folks.
Wow, Paul, you've captured the essence of mainstream media brainwashing in a 5-sentence post.

Lockdowns, including school closures, have resulted - and will continue to result - in incalculable deaths, far more than they helped prevent. Not only that, but they proved completely ineffective at their intended purpose. Every time the leftist media held up a geography for "doing it right", that geography had a subsequent outbreak just like everywhere else. But of course you wouldn't have heard about that.

Kids are not resilient - there is an unprecedented mental health crisis among kids and teens that I've seen first-hand, and this is the population that is far less at risk to COVID than they are the flu.

Kids not being is schools did not slow spread. This has been empirically proven. It's not like they hermetically sealed the kids at home for gosh sakes. They were still out being kids doing what kids do amidst an airborne respiratory virus. All the while the lower and middle class had to struggle with child care, further transferring wealth. Why is it hard to understand that?

Perhaps at first those who made decisions to shut down schools did so with good intention. My concern is those who continue to push for school closures - or did so after summer of 2020 when the preponderance of evidence showed overwhelmingly that they are far more detrimental than helpful. One either has to be:
a) willfully ignorant to the point of maleficence
b) extremely low-IQ to not even be able to question if that policy is a good idea
c) standing to gain politically or financially.
I'm a scientist, not a psychologist, so I won't guess on the "why", but I will say that none of the above options leave me feeling good about the state of humanity.

Finally, your closer line... Citing the number of deaths recorded as COVID (note the wording) without context or annotation is simply strawman argument for whatever COVID lockdown policy one feels appropriate. The number who have died with COVID is beyond human control. Those who continue to suffer and die because of lockdowns is within human control. We need to focus on what we control.

Humans =/= God. Remember that for the next time your government wants to "control" something.

[paulxu]

Finally, your closer line... Citing the number of deaths recorded as COVID (note the wording) without context or annotation is simply strawman argument for whatever COVID lockdown policy one feels appropriate. The number who have died with COVID is beyond human control.

Wow. I don't feel particularly good about the state of humanity after your post either.
There have been in the last 2 1/12 years an excess number of deaths over a million in the US, which seems to connect with a pandemic.
Me noting the number, was actually being saddened by the loss of human life...here and around the world.
And there are things we can do within human control to lessen numbers like those. Vaccines being a good example.
I continue to be amazed by people who want a public health crisis to be a political football.

[Masterofreality]

I continue to be amazed by people who want a public health crisis to be a political football.

Then I guess you are incredibly amazed by your elected President and his/your party of Democrats since every blame for virus deaths was blamed upon Trump- even though he was able, through Operation Warp Speed, to get a vaccine to the public in record time. Add to that the mainstream leftist media who continued Covid Death Counters on screen all through Trump’s Presidency then mysteriously disappeared them on 1/20/21.
One million deaths. Over 650,000 of them under your Democratic Party’s rule, even with vaccines and improved therapeutics. That’s where your “excess number of deaths” comes from Paul. But you just can’t bring yourself to acknowledge that…amazingly.

[paulxu]

You want me to acknowledge the science of a virus spreading wider and wider over time?
OK...that's true.
Good grief.
Just maybe it wouldn't have spread so much if conservatives hadn't made it political, and urged people not to get vaccinated.
Don't worry, I don't think you could ever acknowledge that reality, so I'm not waiting for that to happen.

[Masterofreality]

You want me to acknowledge the science of a virus spreading wider and wider over time?
OK...that's true.
Good grief.
Just maybe it wouldn't have spread so much if conservatives hadn't made it political, and urged people not to get vaccinated.
Don't worry, I don't think you could ever acknowledge that reality, so I'm not waiting for that to happen.

Uh, WHO made it political? Good Grief Paul!!
Biden & Harris undermined the vaccines efficacy during the late 2020 campaign in an effort to derail Trump. This is documented.
That was a big reason why Persons of Color were resistant to getting vaccinated. Once again your blue bias is NOT reality.
From “The Hill”. :

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/amp/

[waggy]

And some think we don’t need AK47’s

[paulxu]

Props to the government jumping in during Trump's admin. to get the vaccines developed.
That one might be cautious about what he said, after injecting bleach, and chose to believe the health professionals instead is understandable.

For the last 2 years and still today it's been conservatives hurting the vaccine roll out (see freedom convoys or whatever).
Most people understand that. I think that has cost lives.

But as America heads into midterm elections next year, the political right and the anti-vaccine movement are drawing ever-closer together. It's an alliance that promises to give both sides more power, but the cost is potentially thousands of American lives.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/06/1057344561/anti-vaccine-activists-political-conference-trump-republicans


Counties that went heavily for Donald Trump have seen much lower vaccination rates and much higher death rates from COVID
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

[Masterofreality]

Sooo, who KEEPS politicizing the pandemic now Paul? The same people who started doing it. Your people.
You just can’t stop, can you?
But just keep denying what Biden and Harris were accurately quoted as saying- that no one should trust a vaccine developed under Trump.
By the way, it’s been 100 days now since ya Boi Biden has had any direct interaction with the Press. The longest in History. When will he stand up there and be forced to answer questions?? Is he accountable or not? I guess it’s hard to fit press meetings in between naps.

[bjf123]

That one might be cautious about what he said, after injecting bleach, and chose to believe the health professionals instead is understandable.

Except Trump didn’t say people should inject bleach. What he said was taken out of context by the media (shocking, I know).

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Huh? "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?"

[Masterofreality]

Huh? "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?"

Yes a question, not a statement of treatment.
There were many questions asked at the pandemics start.
Like where is the mysterious bat that started this whole disease? ALLEGEDLY

[bobbiemcgee]

https://giphy.com/gifs/coronavirus-deborah-birx-Y2sOWtHdMibOKeZBFw

[paulxu]

Sooo, who KEEPS politicizing the pandemic now Paul? The same people who started doing it. Your people.


But as America heads into midterm elections next year, the political right and the anti-vaccine movement are drawing ever-closer together. It's an alliance that promises to give both sides more power, but the cost is potentially thousands of American lives.

These are not my people. Yours maybe...but not mine.

[paulxu]

By the way, it’s been 100 days now since ya Boi Biden has had any direct interaction with the Press. The longest in History. When will he stand up there and be forced to answer questions?? Is he accountable or not? I guess it’s hard to fit press meetings in between naps.

He just took questions from the press on March 22.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/03/24/remarks-by-president-biden-in-press-conference-7/

And he's got a long way to go to catch the record holder.


A little more than three weeks after his inauguration, Donald Trump gave his first-ever press conference as president.
One year later, that circus-like exchange remains Trump’s first, last, and only formal press conference—the longest period of time without a solo press conference held by an American president in at least half a century.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/president-trumps-new-record-the-longest-time-without-a-formal-press-conference-in-half-a-century

[Masterofreality]

Hmmm.
I will note that my words were somewhat inaccurate because of that long rambling almost incoherent “press conference” that Biden held, where he encouraged Putin to make a “Minor Incursion” into Ukraine, but, no direct interview since the one Biden screwed up with the friendly Lester Holt….

He had a “Press Conference” in Belgium but not on US soil. He refuses to face the American press, makes speeches off of a teleprompter then turns his back and walks away. Some Accountability.

Per the Daily Mail:
Friday marked 100 days since Biden last gave an interview to the press

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837477/amp/Bidens-approval-drops-39-100-days-presidents-press-interview.html

And from the Guardian- certainly no “Right Wing” media:

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/19/joe-biden-media-reporters-press-conference

Biden has held just nine formal news conferences during his first year, according to research compiled by Martha Joynt Kumar, director of the White House Transition Project. Trump had held 22 and Barack Obama 27 at the same point in their presidencies.

Stop covering for your dementia ridden incompetent boob Paul. The American people see it, but you won’t.

[paulxu]

Read through the numbers in the report, and note the earlier detail of the former president's conference.
Trump's were not solo press conferences, but joint ones where he took limited questions because another person was on the stage.

In his first year, Trump gave one formal press conference at the White House. Biden has done 2, one the longest on record.
Additionally, Biden has done 5 other solo press conferences...Trump none.
From your own linked person's actual report:

https://www.whitehousetransitionproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/WHTP2021-46E-Presidential-Interchanges-with-Reporters-at-One-Full-year.pdf

But this is all deflection. Biden's press secretary has been out there almost every day of his presidency answering questions from reporters about the administration's positions. Trump actually had a White House press secretary who never held a White House press briefing. She has answered questions from the January 6th committee and warned of the danger the former president poses for our country.

[Masterofreality]

Read through the numbers in the report, and note the earlier detail of the former president's conference.
Trump's were not solo press conferences, but joint ones where he took limited questions because another person was on the stage.

In his first year, Trump gave one formal press conference at the White House. Biden has done 2, one the longest on record.
Additionally, Biden has done 5 other solo press conferences...Trump none.
From your own linked person's actual report:

https://www.whitehousetransitionproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/WHTP2021-46E-Presidential-Interchanges-with-Reporters-at-One-Full-year.pdf

But this is all deflection. Biden's press secretary has been out there almost every day of his presidency answering questions from reporters about the administration's positions. Trump actually had a White House press secretary who never held a White House press briefing. She has answered questions from the January 6th committee and warned of the danger the former president poses for our country.

Are you delusional or just memory challenged?
Trump’s Press Secretaries Sara Huckabee, and her successors like Kaylee McInany (sp?) were out there every day being harassed by Grandstanders like Jim Acosta and having to defend against tons of Lies from Adam Schiff and the misinformation Democrats.
And whether or not someone else was “on the stage” guess who was asked, and had to answer the vast majority of questions? Talk about somebody misdirecting!!!
It is impossible to have a discussion with a guy who has zero consciousness outside of his blue bubble.
I guess you just took you daily naps every day when those Press Briefings were going on, huh Paul?

[paulxu]

Stephanie Grisham was the White House press secretary for 9 months (she followed Sanders I think).
In those 9 months she never held one White House press briefing (following a 6 month lull in them, preceding her time)

So, yes, I was able to nap during her non-existent briefings.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/575146-grisham-says-decision-not-to-hold-press-briefings-was-a-directive-from-trump/

[Masterofreality]

But….But…. From that article- which is true:
“ He said he didn’t think we needed any more briefings. He spoke to the press two or three times a day directly so then my job was to work more behind the scenes, with print with regional and local.”

Get real Paul. Trump was one of the most public Presidents we’ve had. How much more Grandstanding Circus Acts from Jim Acosta and Yamiche Alcindor can one Administration take? The pause in Press Conferences came because of the unfair, biased coverage he received. How many more times can you defend yourself against lies? Lies from Adam Schiff, Pelosi and Schumer??
No matter what he said it was twisted and unfair just like the “bleach” comment that has been debunked earlier in this thread.
I’m sure you still totally believe the Steele Dossier too.

[Masterofreality]

Go, glad things worked out for you and your family.
Where states chose to hold kids out, it's understandable I think.
Kids were remarkably resilient to the virus, but 20% of cases were kids.
So, being in school and spreading it, and then taking it home to more vulnerable people is a consideration.
I believe people who made the decisions to close schools, did so trying to control a health issue; not as some would think for any political gain.
We've lost a million; that's a lot of folks.

Yeah, that really worked out so well. I also refer back to Muskie in Dayton’s post.
Seems like Florida did it right. Thanks Rom DeSantis!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/schools-learning-loss-remote-covid-education/629938/

[paulxu]

Are you delusional or just memory challenged?
Trump’s Press Secretaries Sara Huckabee, and her successors like Kaylee McInany (sp?) were out there every day
I guess you just took you daily naps every day when those Press Briefings were going on, huh Paul?


Stephanie Grisham was the White House press secretary for 9 months (she followed Sanders I think).
In those 9 months she never held one White House press briefing (following a 6 month lull in them, preceding her time)

One of these things is correct. One is not.
No matter how you try to excuse it.

[X-band '01]

Tuesday is going to be an indicator of just how vengeful a person Donald Trump will be in the upcoming general election. Brian Kemp is expected to cruise to the Republican nomination for governor (as will Democrat Stacey Abrams), but we'll also see whether or not Secretary of State Brad Raffensparger is going to win the Republican nomination again. Trump has put the blame solely on them for his losses in Georgia in the presidential (and later Senate) races.

And that's not even counting congressional primaries. We'll see if Greene gets to run for another term.

[Masterofreality]

One of these things is correct. One is not.
No matter how you try to excuse it.

Yes. The top one is.

[paulxu]

Well OK then. Grisham must not have been a successor press secretary, despite the title, who was out there every day...as she was never out there.
Not even once.

I got it. Fake press secretary...like fake news.

[bobbiemcgee]

Tuesday is going to be an indicator of just how vengeful a person Donald Trump will be in the upcoming general election. Brian Kemp is expected to cruise to the Republican nomination for governor (as will Democrat Stacey Abrams), but we'll also see whether or not Secretary of State Brad Raffensparger is going to win the Republican nomination again. Trump has put the blame solely on them for his losses in Georgia in the presidential (and later Senate) races.

And that's not even counting congressional primaries. We'll see if Greene gets to run for another term.

Kemp should win in a landslide. "Big Lie' tRump voters say they won't vote in Nov. which would give the race to Abrams:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-david-perdue-brian-kemp-georgia-governor-protest-vote-2022-5

[Masterofreality]

Well OK then. Grisham must not have been a successor press secretary, despite the title, who was out there every day...as she was never out there.
Not even once.

I got it. Fake press secretary...like fake news.

I alreaady addressed that that, and yeah, because of his attention seeking- a foible which I will acknowledge- Trump was available to the press every day and talked to them. The press conferences had become Grandstanding spectacles of inanity by Acosta and Alcindor among others so there was little point. As you notice I didn’t mention grifter Grisham who is obviously, like many, is out there trying to sell a book.
Back to the point. When is your mentally challenged guy going to stand up and be accountable to hard questions from the Press Corp?
I acknowledged Trumps narcissim. Can you acknowledge Biden’s miniscule mental state?
Trump was the most picked apart, questioned President ever. Biden just parrots a teleprompter then turns his back and walks away. That’s a problem.

[Masterofreality]

Kemp should win in a landslide. "Big Lie' tRump voters say they won't vote in Nov. which would give the race to Abrams:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-david-perdue-brian-kemp-georgia-governor-protest-vote-2022-5

Ha! Abrams ain’t winning. By the way, she still won’t acknowledge that she lost the last one. She & Hillary started the most recent Stolen Election controversy.

[Masterofreality]

By the way,
This is what idiocy from the Democrats get you.
It didn’t work for Jimmy Carter, and made things worse, but The Dems just want to run it back because “Corporations are Evil Greedys”.

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/everyone-hates-nancy-pelosi-gas-prices-bill/

[noteggs]

Ha! Abrams ain’t winning. By the way, she still won’t acknowledge that she lost the last one. She & Hillary started the most recent Stolen Election controversy.

Honestly why would she want to win because she went from a net worth of $109,000 to 3 plus million today. Well at least she was able to pay off her “own” student loans and back taxes.

[Masterofreality]

Honestly why would she want to win because she went from a net worth of $109,000 to 3 plus million today. Well at least she was able to pay off her “own” student loans and back taxes.

The perfect grift continued by Patrisse Cullers. #RaceBased
Did you know that Georgia is “a terrible place to live”? Per Abrams

[noteggs]

The perfect grift continued by Patrisse Cullers. #RaceBased
Did you know that Georgia is “a terrible place to live”? Per Abrams

Yes even the “worst state in the country to live in.”

Something I would love to hear and motivate me to vote for them.

[bobbiemcgee]

Honestly why would she want to win because she went from a net worth of $109,000 to 3 plus million today. Well at least she was able to pay off her “own” student loans and back taxes.

Piker. tRump has grifted 110 m and spent nothing.

[X-band '01]

Ha! Abrams ain’t winning. By the way, she still won’t acknowledge that she lost the last one. She & Hillary started the most recent Stolen Election controversy.

Except I missed the part where Abrams and her supporters tried to prevent a peaceful transition of power like Trump did. And as much as Republicans like to sweep January 6 under the rug, it's not going to happen. Period.

[bobbiemcgee]

I agree BLM hasn't done shit and should be disbanded after an audit. Like to see all these black nba and nfl millionaires put their money back into education in a huge way like this white guy in chicago did sending 30,000 to college:

https://www.essence.com/news/chicago-college-tuition/

[bjf123]

Biden certainly put his foot in his mouth today, saying the US would respond militarily should China invade Taiwan. While that might actually have the support of many Americans, it flies in the face of our stated one China policy and has set off a bit of a diplomatic crisis.

Can you imagine if Trump had said this? CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, etc., would be parading out talking heads and opinion columns about how he’s sending us into World War 3 and should be removed from office. Instead, if you visit their websites, you have to scroll a bit to find any story about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

By responding militarily, does he mean sending aid/weapons like Ukraine or actual boots on the ground?

I think at some point China will try to recapture Taiwan, but will sanctioning them be as effective as Russia? You'd think China would be learning some lessons from the Russia/Ukraine conflict.

[noteggs]

Based off what he said was military. Honestly, sadly I don’t think he knows how to answer the question which should make us all nervous.

[Masterofreality]

Based off what he said was military. Honestly, sadly I don’t think he knows how to answer the question which should make us all nervous.

It was immediately “walked back” by Admin “Officials”…meaning Ron Klain. The third time Bidens comments on Taiwan have been “Walked Back”!
Who the hell is in charge here?

[Masterofreality]

Except I missed the part where Abrams and her supporters tried to prevent a peaceful transition of power like Trump did. And as much as Republicans like to sweep January 6 under the rug, it's not going to happen. Period.

Huh. I guess you did miss it. “Protestors in the (Capitol) Rotunda.”
Yeah, smaller stage but sames…
Just play that Race Card…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/11/14/georgia-lawmaker-protesting-over-voter-counts-said-she-was-arrested-because-shes-black/

[Muskie in dayton]

Wow. I don't feel particularly good about the state of humanity after your post either.
There have been in the last 2 1/12 years an excess number of deaths over a million in the US, which seems to connect with a pandemic.
Me noting the number, was actually being saddened by the loss of human life...here and around the world.
And there are things we can do within human control to lessen numbers like those. Vaccines being a good example.
I continue to be amazed by people who want a public health crisis to be a political football.

1. The excess mortality is not entirely associated with the pandemic - actually not even close. Esp. in the 25-65 age range. In fact, the excess, all-cause mortality has increased in the last year while a vaccine has been widely available. Why?

2. I'll clarify... There is nothing policy-wise (e.g., lockdowns, mandates) that we can do to slow COVID. That has been proven.

3. Those using rhetoric (e.g., "public health crisis") and data without context are the one's leveraging COVID for political gain. COVID was an excuse for authoritarian policies the likes of which western civilization has not seen in centuries. Those like me pointing out the reality of the situation want to prevent it from being used as a "political football" for the evildoers who want to control everyone's life.

So, which of the three are you, Paul?

[Muskie in dayton]

You want me to acknowledge the science of a virus spreading wider and wider over time?
OK...that's true.
Good grief.
Just maybe it wouldn't have spread so much if conservatives hadn't made it political, and urged people not to get vaccinated.
Don't worry, I don't think you could ever acknowledge that reality, so I'm not waiting for that to happen.
***CNN Brainwash Alert***

[Muskie in dayton]

And some think we don’t need AK47’s

The last 2 years here in the US, and even more so in other western countries (e.g., Canada, New Zealand, Australia), have made it abundantly clear why our forefathers wrote into the constitution that our right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

[X-band '01]

Huh. I guess you did miss it. “Protestors in the (Capitol) Rotunda.”
Yeah, smaller stage but sames…
Just play that Race Card…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/11/14/georgia-lawmaker-protesting-over-voter-counts-said-she-was-arrested-because-shes-black/

If anything, we got you to quote the Washington Post. ;-)

IIRC, that election also had a snafu with a bunch of voting machines that led to some votes being counted late. It was a narrow win for Kemp (and legitimate, I might add).

That said, the Senate Race in Pennsylvania is going to be very close on the Republican side. Dr. Oz had a lead by about 1,000 votes at last check - I think today was supposed to be the date where results are due in to the Secretary of State's office. They'll have to recount anyway since the margin will be within 0.5% per Pennsylvania law.

[MADXSTER]

Question: Is there any chance that Trump could sue Hillary Clinton for defamation of character or something to that effect?

[Caf]

The last 2 years here in the US, and even more so in other western countries (e.g., Canada, New Zealand, Australia), have made it abundantly clear why our forefathers wrote into the constitution that our right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

The bad timing of this post is honestly impressive.

[Masterofreality]

Uh huh!

IrAn Is TrUsTwOrThY oN nUcLeAr!!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-used-secret-u-n-records-to-evade-nuclear-probes-11653473247

“ The U.S. and the IAEA have said for years that Iran has failed to answer questions about its past nuclear work in a cat-and-mouse game that continues to this day and now complicates a revival of the nuclear deal, which lifted most international sanctions on Iran in exchange for limits on Iran’s nuclear activities.”

[paulxu]

Great reasons for ongoing inspections. Trust but verify.

[Masterofreality]

Great reasons for ongoing inspections. Trust but verify.

Which are shams. Verification is impossible with a regime that knows all the tricks.
I am amazed at your continued naivety Paul. Or your abject refusal to doubt your Feckless Leader’s reality blindness.
Iran is a terror state that exports hate….and hates the US.

[paulxu]

All of that information pertained to their efforts decades ago.
Does it make geopolitical sense? Of course. They watched as we invaded Iraq who had no WMD's, and decided the N. Korea approach of developing a bomb was the best deterrent to not be invaded.
So they naturally hid their efforts.
With the JCPOA in 2015 we had half a chance of monitoring their activity, with ever more sensitive instruments on the ground, and inspectors, to keep their enrichment levels low. All indications were that it was working. They took their stockpiles and sent them out of country, etc.
Sure we had to be on guard to cheating, but MUCH easier to do from inside the country with inspectors.
Trump decided to get out of the agreement, re-imposed more sanctions,....and Iran started enriching towards weapon grade again.

The sanctions alone don't work. (See N. Korea who is in much worse shape than Iran) We need to reduce the chance of nuclear war.
The JCPOA was a good effort in that direction. Doing nothing is not.

[X-band '01]

The mullahs and Iranians governing the country are batshit crazy, but a lot of Iranians/Iranian-Americans I've worked with and met are some of the more generous people you'll ever meet.

[Masterofreality]

All of that information pertained to their efforts decades ago.
Does it make geopolitical sense? Of course. Not unless you are a terror state
They watched as we invaded Iraq who had no WMD's, and decided the N. Korea approach of developing a bomb.
Note: To harass and intimidate Israel and Saudi Arabia which Paul leaves out.

So they naturally hid their efforts….and Iran started enriching towards weapon grade again.


Note: They never stopped. “Naturally hid their efforts”. What the hell respectable country does that Paul, unless they are going to be aggressors?? Holy Toledo!!

What a Masterclass of naiveity and Misinformation. Comparing Iran favorably to North Korea is not exactly the thing that you should be doing. But you do you.

[Masterofreality]

The mullahs and Iranians governing the country are batshit crazy, but a lot of Iranians/Iranian-Americans I've worked with and met are some of the more generous people you'll ever meet.

And the “people”’have zero to do with this discussion. Those that are hellbent on destroying Israel and the US do.

[paulxu]

Note: They never stopped. “Naturally hid their efforts”. What the hell respectable country does that Paul, unless they are going to be aggressors?? Holy Toledo!!

What a Masterclass of naiveity and Misinformation. Comparing Iran favorably to North Korea is not exactly the thing that you should be doing. But you do you.

If you watched a foreign country invade your neighbor, who called you part of the axis of evil...you would be worried about being invaded and hide you efforts.
My comparison of Iran to N. Korea was to show they have many more resources (oil) thank N. Korea so are more able to weather sanctions.
N. Korea had sanctions and developed a nuclear weapon. Sanctions aren't stopping Iran.
We had a chance with the JCPOA and inspections.
(here I refrain from name calling as it is not productive to understanding of the issues.)

[X-band '01]

Another cruel irony to take place this weekend - the annual NRA convention will be in Houston. Nothing good is going to come out of this.

[Masterofreality]

If you watched a foreign country invade your neighbor, who called you part of the axis of evil...you would be worried about being invaded and hide you efforts.


This such false equivalence bullshit.
A) Iran *should* have been cheering on an American *Invasion* of it’s neighbor. A *neighbor* who was a rival (Iraq Sunni/Iran Shiite) and had buried over 400,000 Shia in mass graves in its borders. No need for nuclear development vs America because of that.
B) The “Invasions” were done by Iran into Iraq. Remember their war in the 1980’s? Then “Invasions” were done by Iraq into Kuwait. None of those “turf wars” over religion have anything to do with Iran blatantly developing a nuclear weapon to mass destruct the world. NOTHING.
C) The center of the “Axis of Evil” is Iran as shown by it’s Henchman Soleimani who Trump had, rightly, assassinated. Soleimani was aligned and a big assistor to Hezbolla in Lebanon, all to destroy Israel. Soleimani was also messing around in Iraq- where he was assasinated.
The fact is that NONE of that has anything to do with Iran’s overwhelming desire for nuclear weapons- a need on which work continued unabated during the JCPOA and confirmed in previous posts by me.
Iran is also a big Russian ally Paul and still cries “Death to America” “Death to Israel” and continues proxy fights in Yemen vs Saudi Arabia.
Your continued water carrying for the world’s biggest Terror State because your idol Barack was wrong, and Biden now is too, is disturbing in its malfeasance.
Iran has not and cannot be trusted and the JCPOA caters to them as detailed by numerous Middle East experts. There was no chance with the JCPOA because Iran never had the intent to comply, just deceive.
Your ludicrous exhausting (false) defenses have reached their end.

Oh, by the way. You seem to think that Sanctions don’t work. Since that is the case I suppose you want Biden to send physical troops in to Ukraine vs Russia? Your boy Biden is all about Sanctions but I guess you think that is not the way to go vs Iran and Russia, huh? Just some empty ass “Agreement” with zero teeth.

[paulxu]

Your "proof" was from documents that referred to activity in 2003. Not after the agreement was implemented.
Sanctions are effective in hurting an economy (see N. Korea). They don't stop nuclear weapon development (see N. Korea).
They are used with other tools, like diplomacy and joint efforts with allies. We are providing a lot of military support (short of boots on the ground) to Ukraine. We are not counting on sanctions alone to stop Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

[Masterofreality]

Your "proof" was from documents that referred to activity in 2003. Not after the agreement was implemented.
Sanctions are effective in hurting an economy (see N. Korea). They don't stop nuclear weapon development (see N. Korea).
They are used with other tools, like diplomacy and joint efforts with allies. We are providing a lot of military support (short of boots on the ground) to Ukraine. We are not counting on sanctions alone to stop Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

I’m sick of your water carrying for the largest Terror State in the World and your ludicrous support for a murderous regime who wants to destroy the US and Israel. Are you Anti Semitic? The JCPOA wasn’t just with the US, Paul. It was with the members of the US Security Council, Germany and the European Union. The fact that the US pulled out didn’t negate it’s terms, but Iran kept violating the terms because that had never complied with them in the first place!! It’s a rogue state and always has been. You have blood on your hands Paul for stubbornly supporting a terrible deal because you have to protect your idol Obama.
Here are plenty of other articles that prove your wrongheaded lunacy. Enough.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/355949-iran-is-violating-the-deal/amp/

https://www.heritage.org/middle-east/report/irans-nuclear-humpty-dumpty-the-jcpoa-should-not-be-put-back-together-again

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/iran-nuclear-history-implementation-of-the-jcpoa

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/agency-iran-violating-restrictions-nuclear-deal-71090757

https://warontherocks.com/2015/10/five-reasons-why-the-iran-nuclear-deal-is-still-a-really-bad-idea/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/05/08/iran-nuclear-deal-worst-donald-trump-column/589828002/

Since you think that Iran is so Trustworthy Paul, why don’t you just move there? I’m sure your experience will be exquisite.

[paulxu]

I carry no water for Iran. Your links proved only that they re-started their program after the US pulled out, and re-imposed sanctions.
Or they were opinions from non-scientists.

My brother worked for 40 years in arms control in the US State Department, and the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, and now advises the Vatican at the UN on arms control issues. He is a physicist by training, and well versed in the inspection/verification regimes...especially the science end.
My understanding of many of these issues comes from hours of discussions with him.

I don't support Iran or any of its murderous stances, especially as to Israel. I do support any efforts to lower the risk of nuclear war, especially having new states obtaining nuclear weapons. The JCPOA saw a lowering of nuclear stockpiles. Trump pulled out, and they are now increasing. Not good for the world.

[Masterofreality]

I carry no water for Iran. Your links proved only that they re-started their program after the US pulled out, and re-imposed sanctions.
Or they were opinions from non-scientists.

My brother worked for 40 years in arms control in the US State Department, and the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, and now advises the Vatican at the UN on arms control issues. He is a physicist by training, and well versed in the inspection/verification regimes...especially the science end.
My understanding of many of these issues comes from hours of discussions with him.

I don't support Iran or any of its murderous stances, especially as to Israel. I do support any efforts to lower the risk of nuclear war, especially having new states obtaining nuclear weapons. The JCPOA saw a lowering of nuclear stockpiles. Trump pulled out, and they are now increasing. Not good for the world.

What about the rest of the world who was part of the Agreement Paul? Don’t they mean anything to Iran or the Agreement? Trump was only one part of it.
Why was it structured so it wasn’t a Treaty that had to be passed by Congress. You ignore all those points.
You continue to carry water for a Murderous Regime that promotes destruction.
I’m done with this discussion. Go live in Iran.

[bobbiemcgee]

Another cruel irony to take place this weekend - the annual NRA convention will be in Houston. Nothing good is going to come out of this.

CASH. That's what is good for republicans. They go to refill their coffers. Romney gets 13m. Do you think he will ever vote for gun control? They go down to Houston to kiss the ring and load up on blood money.

https://www.newsweek.com/republican-senators-nra-funding-texas-school-shooting-uvalde-1710332

[Masterofreality]

CASH. That's what is good for republicans. They go to refill their coffers. Romney gets 13m. Do you think he will ever vote for gun control? They go down to Houston to kiss the ring and load up on blood money.

https://www.newsweek.com/republican-senators-nra-funding-texas-school-shooting-uvalde-1710332

I got a question for you Bobbie. Who controls the House, Senate and White House right now? They could pass any law they want with zero Republican votes.
Why don’t THEY?????????????????????

I’ll hang up and listen.

[Masterofreality]

One last thing on Iran. This is treasonous.
Send Kerry and Obama to jail.

https://aclj.org/government-corruption/aclj-obtains-new-memo-in-state-department-lawsuit-unveiling-unreported-obama-era-officials-secret-meeting-with-irans-zarif-during-trump-administration

[bobbiemcgee]

I got a question for you Bobbie. Who controls the House, Senate and White House right now? They could pass any law they want with zero Republican votes.
Why don’t THEY?????????????????????

I’ll hang up and listen.

I think you know they need 10 republican votes (60 votes) to pass anything major.. Or do you want to set aside the filibuster rules? Bad idea if you think 'pubs will prevail in the midterms at which time it will take 7-8 Dem votes to pass anything. Usual gridlock. Pubs won't vote against their meal tickets. They shrug their shoulders and say "pray more".