Politics Thread

[paulxu]

If you're not smart enough to know, then you are incredibly stupid. Now I don't think that's true, Paul. What I do think is that you would rather call yourself stupid than admit that Joe Biden is responsible for the massacre of US servicemen and women. It's sad that you're so ideologically slanted that you would rather insult yourself than see the situation for what it is. Sad

He's as responsible for it as Reagan was for the 200 hundred killed in Beruit, etc,etc,etc. I don't deny that.
But if you think these decisions are made in a vacuum, without input from the Joint Chiefs, as if he's doing it all on his own...then I don't know what to tell you.
Sure he's ultimately responsible, as much as Bush for lying us into Iraq, or any commander-in-chief for the major decisions.
What is wrong with you guys.

[Strange Brew]

He's as responsible for it as Reagan was for the 200 hundred killed in Beruit, etc,etc,etc. I don't deny that.
But if you think these decisions are made in a vacuum, without input from the Joint Chiefs, as if he's doing it all on his own...then I don't know what to tell you.
Sure he's ultimately responsible, as much as Bush for lying us into Iraq, or any commander-in-chief for the major decisions.
What is wrong with you guys.

How in the world did you compare Biden's blunder to Beruit? Seriously Paul, either you don't understand that incident at all or you're running out of Republicans to blame for things. I really am racking my brain to find anything in US military history as stupid as what Biden did. Bay of Pigs? This is worse. Saigon? Worse. And this isn't over yet.

Since you're bringing up lies to go to war let's talk about Wilson....

[XU_Lou]

In fairness, this video is altered and faked.

I stand corrected!

[Masterofreality]

He's as responsible for it as Reagan was for the 200 hundred killed in Beruit, etc,etc,etc. I don't deny that.
But if you think these decisions are made in a vacuum, without input from the Joint Chiefs, as if he's doing it all on his own...then I don't know what to tell you.
Sure he's ultimately responsible, as much as Bush for lying us into Iraq, or any commander-in-chief for the major decisions.
What is wrong with you guys.

Uh, THIS is the best description of why Joe Biden, and only Joe Biden is at fault for this crap show. A warped unrealistic sense of the real world.

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2021/08/why-joe-biden-got-everything-wrong-afghanistan

[X-man]

Uh, THIS is the best description of why Joe Biden, and only Joe Biden is at fault for this crap show. A warped unrealistic sense of the real world.

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2021/08/why-joe-biden-got-everything-wrong-afghanistan

Though the article you cite here specifically faults many others, including your man Donald.

Here's the quote: "There were fatal errors at the beginning of the Afghanistan War and there was gross incompetence at the end, but the last two years should not be spared either. In Doha at the beginning of 2020, the US made a formal commitment to make its withdrawal conditional on an inclusive political process. That condition was quickly abandoned, one more element in the collapsing fiction. We are not talking about a moral commandment in the world court of history. We are talking about a piece of paper signed little over a year ago."

[Strange Brew]

Though the article you cite here specifically faults many others, including your man Donald.

Here's the quote: "There were fatal errors at the beginning of the Afghanistan War and there was gross incompetence at the end, but the last two years should not be spared either. In Doha at the beginning of 2020, the US made a formal commitment to make its withdrawal conditional on an inclusive political process. That condition was quickly abandoned, one more element in the collapsing fiction. We are not talking about a moral commandment in the world court of history. We are talking about a piece of paper signed little over a year ago."

Yes, gross criminal negligence at the end. The rest is rhetorical fluff for the pseudo-intellectual fart sniffers.

[X-man]

Yes, gross criminal negligence at the end. The rest is rhetorical fluff for the pseudo-intellectual fart sniffers.

"criminal" is a stretch, but I agree that it was gross negligence. And of course you reject anything critical of anyone that you might support with a petty insult. Way to advance the discussion!

[Strange Brew]

"criminal" is a stretch, but I agree that it was gross negligence. And of course you reject anything critical of anyone that you might support with a petty insult. Way to advance the discussion!

My tolerance for BS is at an all time low X-Man. I’m not sorry for calling out fluff to deflect from the current mess. The previous admin made some mistakes however the strategy of Obama/Biden was just stupid. Especially the ROE for the military and the minimization of the threat in the region. Biden was against the surge and for nation building during that period. His current comments show an obvious lack of leadership and strategic vision. He’s an incompetent person and incapable of the duties of the office. As are the next two in line. The current situation domestically and abroad is FUBAR and rhetorical platitudes will be met with due scorn.

[X-man]

My tolerance for BS is at an all time low X-Man. I’m not sorry for calling out fluff to deflect from the current mess. The previous admin made some mistakes however the strategy of Obama/Biden was just stupid. Especially the ROE for the military and the minimization of the threat in the region. Biden was against the surge and for nation building during that period. His current comments show an obvious lack of leadership and strategic vision. He’s an incompetent person and incapable of the duties of the office. As are the next two in line. The current situation domestically and abroad is FUBAR and rhetorical platitudes will be met with due scorn.

Whatever. I find it amazing, given your intolerance for BS, that you never called out "the former guy".

[xuwillie]

Whatever. I find it amazing, given your intolerance for BS, that you never called out "the former guy".

We’ve been dealing with Bobbie and Paul’s crap for for 4 years. Now we all need to be nice to everyone?! Just your typical hypocrisy

[Strange Brew]

Whatever. I find it amazing, given your intolerance for BS, that you never called out "the former guy".

You shouldn’t. I’ve called him arrogant, rude, obnoxious and a big meany. However, I found little objectionable in terms of policy. The only problem I had is he didn’t lower taxes across the board enough. On the war, his policy would’ve provided a more orderly and less deadly withdrawal.

[Masterofreality]

Though the article you cite here specifically faults many others, including your man Donald.
"

Donald is not “my man”. Although policy-wise his Administration is far far superior to the debacle we see in the Oval Office today.
This Group is failing on all fronts and created a disgrace to the country, and damaged our National Security by this botched departure.
Biden should be impeached.

[Masterofreality]

From the Wall Street Journal today re The US’s by dark of night abandoning of the Bagram AF Base:

The way U.S. forces qui*etly slipped out of Bagram was also de*mor*al*iz*ing for the Afghan army and prob*a*bly con*tributed to its col*lapse. The As*so*ci*ated Press spoke to sol*diers wan*der*ing the base the next day. “They lost all the good*will of 20 years,” one said, “by leav*ing the way they did, in the night, with*out telling the Afghan sol*diers who were out*side pa*trolling the area.” The word must have spread: If the U.S. is aban*don*ing its prized air base, then it re*ally was bug*ging out al*to*gether.

Af*ter the col*lapse of the Afghan gov*ern-ment, Mr. Biden could have sent in enough U.S. troops to re*take Bagram and pro*vide for a safer evac*u*a*tion. He de*clined that op*tion in fa*vor of get*ting to the ex*its as fast as pos*si*ble, hop*ing to avoid a con*fronta*tion with the Tal*iban that could re*sult in Amer*i*can ca*su*al*ties. On Thurs*day he got ca*su*al*ties any*way.

The wreck of Mr. Biden’s Afghan withdrawal is damaging enough. But he compounds the harm to his credibility, and America’s, when he refuses to acknowledge mistakes and spins defeat as a victory for realism. Mr. Biden should take responsibility for his own bad decisions, instead of trying to hide behind the military brass.

This confirms that Biden’s malfeasance caused the morale of Afghan troops to be destroyed and set up the disaster we see. It also set up the deaths of 13 US Servicemembers.
Hey Paul. If you still “aren’t sure” Biden could do better, just read and research and the answer becomes clear. Amazing how the guy who could react to Trump within seconds now is paralyzed on opining on Biden.
Hypocrisy at it’s finest, but the Democrats seem to have that down pat.

[paulxu]

I have noted Biden is responsible for these decisions. What else would you like me to say?

If you don't think the Afghan forces were demoralized after Trump negotiated with their enemy in March of 2020, and told them we were leaving, I guess I can't help you.

[Masterofreality]

I have noted Biden is responsible for these decisions. What else would you like me to say?

If you don't think the Afghan forces were demoralized after Trump negotiated with their enemy in March of 2020, and told them we were leaving, I guess I can't help you.

You’ve “noted” but you still defend the guy without criticism.
Hey. EVERYBODY wanted to leave Afghanistan, including you. You are the one that said Biden was “doing a credible job” in this fiasco.
There were conditions that were supposed to be met in the Taliban agreement. Biden ignored all of the Taliban violations and closed Bagram on his own.
Stop trying to throw this back on the prior guy(s) . This President has Ben censured by the British Parliament and other allies criticize.
You are losing badly Paul. Just try to surrender better than your existing President.

[Strange Brew]

Wonderful. Seeing reports a US Congressman is missing in Afghanistan.

Also, for Paul, Bobbie and others the individual who tried to extort Gaetz has been indicted.

[bobbiemcgee]

Gaetz's father. Known fraudster on 10 years probation.

[Strange Brew]

Gaetz's father. Known fraudster on 10 years probation.

So, what does that have to do with anything unless family members like sons need to be discussed?

[Masterofreality]

When you have credible journalism you finally get to the real, like today’s article in the Wall Street Journal.
This President lies, deflects and finger points like no other- with real world consequences for our National security.
Defend this Paul.

Mr. Trump’s deal was rot*ten, but as a new Pres*i*dent he could have al*tered it as he has so much else that Mr. Trump did. The Trump deal was based on the Tal*iban ful*fill*ing con*di*tions—such as ne*go*ti*at*ing a deal with the Afghan gov*ern*ment—that they had al*ready bro*ken when Mr. Biden be*came Pres*i*dent. Yet Mr. Biden claims he was both a pris*oner of that deal and coura*geous for ful*fill*ing it.

He also re*peated that his only choices were to*tal with*drawal or “es*ca*la*tion” with thou*sands of troops. His own ad*vis*ers of*fered him al*ter*na*tives in be*tween, as did the Af*ghanistan Study Group. He was so bent on with*drawal, and so quickly, that he re*fused to ad*just the mil*i*tary plan even as the Tal*iban made gains and the CIA warned that the Afghan gov*ern*ment was likely to fall.

Mr. Biden de*scribed the evac*u*a*tion as if it were a tri*umph, and that his Ad*min*is*tra-tion had planned for such a con*tin*gency in case the Afghan mil*i*tary col*lapsed. This is, lit*er*ally, un*be*liev*able. Mul*ti*ple me*dia re*ports have re*vealed that the White House was caught by sur*prise and pre*paring for va*ca*tion en masse when Kabul fell. The mil*i*tary had to scram*ble and stage a heroic ef*fort to evac*u*ate those who were able to get to the air*port. Mr. Biden wants to take credit for putting out the fire he started.

The Pres*i*dent even had the ill grace to blame Amer*i*cans for not leav*ing Af*ghanistan sooner, and Afghans for not fight*ing. But his own gov*ern*ment clearly felt no ur*gency, as the U.S. Em*bassy had to fran*ti*cally de*stroy doc*u*ments in the fi*nal hours. As for the Afghans, he de*means the sac*ri*fice of the 66,000 who died fight*ing the Tal*iban, of*ten next to Amer*i*cans. They col*lapsed when they lost air sup*port as the U.S. con*trac*tors left and af*ter the mil*i*tary aban*doned Bagram Air Base in the dead of night.”

[noteggs]

https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-call-before-afghan-collapse-biden-pressed-ghani-change-perception-2021-08-31/


“I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,” Biden said. “And there is a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.”

Ghani is worried about his country and Biden about his reputation. Pathetic

[paulxu]

For a comprehensive look at our 20 year involvement, I would suggest reading the Afghanistan Papers.
Remarkably similar to our involvement in Vietnam.

[Masterofreality]

For a comprehensive look at our 20 year involvement, I would suggest reading the Afghanistan Papers.
Remarkably similar to our involvement in Vietnam.

Do you actually read and not ever deflect to irrelevant things?
80% of Americans wanted to leave Afghanistan. Many wanted to leave after Bin Laden was killed. Obama didn’t do it. Why?
Also- 80% of Americans think that this disorganized, clusterf#%ck of a departure was an abject failure.
These are two different things. The second of these two things is 100% the responsibility of Joe Biden- and he failed miserably.
That is the issue Paul. Stay on topic.
And for once, DO NOT DEFLECT!!

By the way. Biden said that Al Queda was out of Afghanistan and that if there were actions against the US that “Al Quaeda would be hunted down and we’ll get you”. Welp. The 3rd in Command Al Quaeda minister came rolling into Kabul in an Escalade in broad daylight undisturbed, while a family of 10 with 7 kids was sword bombed from a drone. The lies that this guy tried to perpetrate are disgusting.

[paulxu]

I was recommending a book...not responding to your criticisms.
As noted before, you are now the loyal opposition, as I was for four years.
We removed a remarkable number of people, in a very short time. We did it months after the former president kept insisting we should be gone.
Any departure was bound to be chaotic given the situation in that country.
It's possible that Biden will pay a heavy price for carrying through on leaving Afghanistan...that is the burden of the office.
I think it was right to finally end the war after 20 years. I wish the former president had brought the government we propped up and armed to the table.
He chose to negotiate only with the Taliban, and they now have the country (for the most part) that was the end game of that negotiation.

[Masterofreality]

We removed a remarkable number of people, in a very short time. We did it months after the former president kept insisting we should be gone.
Any departure was bound to be chaotic given the situation in that country.
A remarkable number of people who we have almost zero idea who they are.
- American Citizens were left behind.
-The majority of Afghans who helped the US were left behind.
-5,000 Americans and only 6,500 of our Afghan helpers were evacuated. Who are the other 110,000 plus people?
- No. The departure did not “have to be chaotic”. Biden’s incompetence caused it to be so.

It's possible that Biden will pay a heavy price for carrying through on leaving Afghanistan.
No. Not carrying though on leaving Afghanistan. 80% of the country was for that. He’ll pay a heavy price from the 80% of Americans for the botched, disorganized nature of the departure. This mess also is an indication of an Administration in chaos with nobody really in charge. Go take another vacation Joe, like you tried to before when this screwed up evacuation started. Does that appear to be that “everything was planned for?


See above. More deflection. If “everything was planned for” why was Biden trying to take a vacation when this “departure” started? Why did he pull then put back in troops? Why did he close an airfield that could have provided air cover?
This was, and is a sick joke.

[bobbiemcgee]

That's funny. Former fatass spent 285 days on the golf course or 22% of his time at a cost of 142 million.This after saying "he'd be too busy to play golf." lol.:lmao:

[Masterofreality]

That's funny. Former fatass spent 285 days on the golf course or 22% of his time at a cost of 142 million.This after saying "he'd be too busy to play golf." lol.:lmao:

Dude did his work and took four hour golf breaks. BTW. Obama, your hero golfed too.
Biden disappears when one of the biggest crises is raging with American lives at stake.
Biden was called by Boris Johnson at the height of the Afghan crisis. It took him 36 hours to return the phone call.
Biden has been criticized worldwide for his lack of leadership and censured by the British Parliament.
Trump was at least visible and moving on the golf course. Biden is invisible and unconscious during his nap “vacations”.
Try again. LOL

[Masterofreality]

Example 56,654. Joe Biden is a terrible directionless President.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the-biden-administrations-push-to-exit-afghanistan-11630855499?st=ndi74h8y5hbfsho&reflink=article_copyURL_share (https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the-biden-administrations-push-to-exit-afghanistan-11630855499?st==article_copyURL_share)

As the process of clos*ing Bagram neared the point of no re*turn, the mil*i*tary paused the shut*down on June 18 so the White House could pon*der the ram*i*fi*ca*tions of giv*ing up the U.S.’s pre*mier air base in the coun*try. On June 22, Pres*i*dent Biden signed off on the plan to close the base on July 2 and keep only a lim*ited mil*i*tary pres*ence on the ground.

The de*ci*sion helped pro*pel the U.S. down a path to*ward what be*came a tu*mul*tuous end*ing to the 20-year war that will leave a mark on Mr. Biden’s pres*i*dency. The Tal*iban quickly over*ran the Kabul gov*ern*ment, the U.S. left the ma*jor*ity of Afghans at risk be*hind, and peo*ple around the world watched tele*vised scenes of air*port chaos. An Is*lamic State group sui*cide bomber killed at least 180 peo*ple crammed around Kab*ul’s air*port, in*clud*ing 13 Amer*i*can ser*vice mem*bers, ac*cord*ing to Afghan and U.S. of*fi*cials.

[Masterofreality]

EVERYBODY should read this wonderful piece from Kevin Williamson.
Our media is 100% corrupt.

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/like-a-rolling-stone/

[bobbiemcgee]

I think he got this right: "Joe Rogan is a genuine crackpot about ivermectin and much else — maybe don’t take medical advice from the Fear Factor guy."

[Strange Brew]

I think he got this right: "Joe Rogan is a genuine crackpot about ivermectin and much else — maybe don’t take medical advice from the Fear Factor guy."

Or from the guy funding Chinese labs…

[bobbiemcgee]

Lindsay Graham wants to re-invade Afghanistan.

[noteggs]

First, can’t believe we left Americans behind. What is going on here…disgusting. Currently, we have private missions trying to get citizens out, just like the Mom and her 3 children a couple days ago.

Know Glenn Beck has spewed some hyperbole over the years, but his rescue mission in Afghanistan should be applauded. Unfortunately the six chartered jets to get Americans and Afghan Christians out, have been grounded by the Taliban.

Yes I know some will still need to be vetted further, but what’s a couple hundred more on top of 10’s of thousands we’re vetting now. If we are getting 100 stranded Americans out, well worth it to me.

Interesting article from Newsweek about attempted rescue.
https://www.newsweek.com/taliban-holds-glenn-beck-groups-planes-least-100-americans-among-passengers-1626294

[Strange Brew]

First, can’t believe we left Americans behind. What is going on here…disgusting. Currently, we have private missions trying to get citizens out, just like the Mom and her 3 children a couple days ago.

Know Glenn Beck has spewed some hyperbole over the years, but his rescue mission in Afghanistan should be applauded. Unfortunately the six chartered jets to get Americans and Afghan Christians out, have been grounded by the Taliban.

Yes I know some will still need to be vetted further, but what’s a couple hundred more on top of 10’s of thousands we’re vetting now. If we are getting 100 stranded Americans out, well worth it to me.

Interesting article from Newsweek about attempted rescue.
https://www.newsweek.com/taliban-holds-glenn-beck-groups-planes-least-100-americans-among-passengers-1626294

But it’s totally not a hostage situation. Really, we mean it. Totally something different but NOT a hostage situation.

[noteggs]

But it’s totally not a hostage situation. Really, we mean it. Totally something different but NOT a hostage situation.

Yes indeed. Just wait until we start the negotiations with the Taliban for the non hostages. Payments will not be called ransom money but rather “financial aid”.

[bobbiemcgee]

Looks like the J6 Morons are coming back 9/18.

[Strange Brew]

Looks like the J6 Morons are coming back 9/18.

I wish Antifa would just go away.

[Masterofreality]

Looks like the J6 Morons are coming back 9/18.

And Antifa never left and stopped causing damage in Portland.
More people died in riots in Kenosha, and more business’s were destroyed and damaged there than Washington DC Bobbie. So???

[Masterofreality]

This President is incompetent.
“A threat to the Nation?” Welp. Paul, you got him.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/normalcy-biden-afghanistan-border-crisis-entitlements-labor-force-participation-equity-11631046272?st=cxkj12bp71q6i1d&reflink=article_copyURL_share

[bobbiemcgee]

"We have not seen, to date, any evidence of anarchist violent extremist or people who subscribe to Antifa in connection with Jan. 6." - FBI Director

There's a few radical righties pushing the antifa theory altho no one has been aressted just 600 insurrectionists.

[Strange Brew]

"We have not seen, to date, any evidence of anarchist violent extremist or people who subscribe to Antifa in connection with Jan. 6." - FBI Director

There's a few radical righties pushing the antifa theory altho no one has been aressted just 600 insurrectionists.

Define insurrection. Looked like a mostly peaceful protest except for the unarmed woman murdered by the police.

[bobbiemcgee]

Facts say otherwise, but don't let them get in the way of your extremist views. Antifa!!! Antifa!! Must have been antifa!! Comical.

[Strange Brew]

Facts say otherwise, but don't let them get in the way of your extremist views. Antifa!!! Antifa!! Must have been antifa!! Comical.

Insurrection, insurrection! But I don't know what the word actually means. Comical...

[bobbiemcgee]

a violent uprising against an authority or government.

[paulxu]

Like this:


https://twitter.com/i/status/1348340289652486146

[Muskie in dayton]

Insurrection, insurrection! But I don't know what the word actually means. Comical...
It means idiot MAGAs provoked by idiot leftists follow police escort through the Capital Building wearing Buffalo outfits and carrying flags.

[Muskie in dayton]

This mandatory vax thing was once called a conspiracy theory. Instead of conspiracy theories, I’m going to call them what they are. Spoiler alerts. I wonder if we can get some of this to our campus.https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1435235393260113927?s=21

[bobbiemcgee]

Provoked by whom? People trying to vote? haha what a joke. They were beating the crap out the cops with the flagpoles.

[Masterofreality]

"We have not seen, to date, any evidence of anarchist violent extremist or people who subscribe to Antifa in connection with Jan. 6." - FBI Director

There's a few radical righties pushing the antifa theory altho no one has been aressted just 600 insurrectionists.

Uh, from the Washington Post:

“ He’s a speedskater. He organizes protests, alienating activists on both ends of the political spectrum. He drove an Uber. And his 40-minute video following rioters through the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, capturing the fatal shooting of a Trump supporter, has placed John Earle Sullivan — “Activist John” — at the center of a conservative campaign to blame liberal groups for the Capitol siege.
The video also landed him in jail. Federal authorities tracking down Capitol trespassers watched Sullivan’s video, interviewed him and then obtained warrants Thursday charging him with causing a civil disorder, trespassing and disorderly conduct. Sullivan repeatedly exhorted rioters to enter the building and overwhelm police, and seemed to convince Capitol Police officers to walk away from the glass door entry to the House Speaker’s Lobby, his video shows. Moments later, with Sullivan screaming warnings about a gun, rioter Ashli Babbitt is shot and killed on the video by a Capitol Police officer.
Video shows moments leading up to fatal Capitol shooting on Jan. 6
The Post obtained video showing the chaotic moment before 35-year-old Ashli Babbitt was fatally shot as rioters rushed toward the Speaker's Lobby. (The Washington Post)
His video attracted the attention of right-wing leaders, including President Trump’s lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, who said it showed that antifa was the true organizer of the attack; and Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), who called Sullivan a “BLM & fascist #ANTIFA supporter arrested for role in Capitol assaults.”

[Masterofreality]

Another Biden disaster.

“ The August producer prices index released Friday showed wholesale costs for businesses rose 8.3% on an annual basis, its biggest advance on record since at least 2010. The PPI accelerated 0.7% for the month, above the 0.6% Dow Jones estimate. The more important consumer price index for August will be released on Tuesday.”

[bobbiemcgee]

Sullivan not Antifa....rad right garbage
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/29/fact-check-john-sullivan-not-antifa-member-jan-6-capitol-riot/5405679001/

As we all know, can't disagree with MOR, he knows all.

[Strange Brew]

Sullivan not Antifa....rad right garbage
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/29/fact-check-john-sullivan-not-antifa-member-jan-6-capitol-riot/5405679001/

As we all know, can't disagree with MOR, he knows all.

He wasn't "right" until after 1/6. MOR's article is from WAPO. You're wrong Bobbie but continue to march along with the orders from your "betters".

[bobbiemcgee]

Newson wins in landslide.

[Masterofreality]

Newson wins in landslide.

Glad that the homelessness, the power outages, tax extortion and hypocrisy can continue unabated!!!
Congratulations!!!

[bobbiemcgee]

"pubs claiming voter fraud, of course. Italian satellites and jewish lasers y'know.

[Masterofreality]

"pubs claiming voter fraud, of course. Italian satellites and jewish lasers y'know.

Where’s your published verification on that?
As the media would say, your post is without evidence.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-host-tomi-lahren-claims-only-thing-that-will-save-gavin-newsom-is-voter-fraud

and follow your leader:


https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-claims-california-recall-election-rigged-2021-9

[Masterofreality]

I’m just gonna say that the news Orange County, that is heavily Republican and has a Republican Congressman in Devin Nunes, supposedly voted for Newsome by over 52% would seem to be very suspect. That is a very strange result.

[paulxu]

They went 53% for Biden vs. 44% for Trump in the presidential election, so it pretty much tracks.

[Masterofreality]

When Trump was President Paul couldn’t wait to post on here.
Under Biden, just Today!

-Drone strike in Afghanistan supposedly to kill IsisK operatives admitted to be a huge mistake that killed 10 civilians & 7 kids.
-Biden’s booster plan shot down by the FDA
-10,000 migrants now under a rancid bridge in Del Rio Texas. THEN, when a news organization flies drones in to photograph the mess is told to stop because of an “emergency order” banning any airspace flights over the site. I guess “Democracy Dies in Darkness”?
-France recalls it’s Ambassador to the US because Biden screwed up the Security Agreement with Australia.
This on top of a screwed up Afghanistan departure, rampant inflation, lack of control over Covid, cutting off American pipelines while approving Russian pipelines- then asking OPEC to pump more oil.
Oh, and lastly, Special Counsel Durham has now indicted a lawyer deeply involved in crafting the false Trump/Russia conspiracy hoax and implicating the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign.
It’s all going so well. What say you now Paul since you have always been so talkative about Presidents?

[Strange Brew]

When Trump was President Paul couldn’t wait to post on here.
Under Biden, just Today!

-Drone strike in Afghanistan supposedly to kill IsisK operatives admitted to be a huge mistake that killed 10 civilians & 7 kids.
-Biden’s booster plan shot down by the FDA
-10,000 migrants now under a rancid bridge in Del Rio Texas. THEN, when a news organization flies drones in to photograph the mess is told to stop because of an “emergency order” banning any airspace flights over the site. I guess “Democracy Dies in Darkness”?
-France recalls it’s Ambassador to the US because Biden screwed up the Security Agreement with Australia.
This on top of a screwed up Afghanistan departure, rampant inflation, lack of control over Covid, cutting off American pipelines while approving Russian pipelines- then asking OPEC to pump more oil.
Oh, and lastly, Special Counsel Durham has now indicted a lawyer deeply involved in crafting the false Trump/Russia conspiracy hoax and implicating the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign.
It’s all going so well. What say you now Paul since you have always been so talkative about Presidents?

Way to focus on a couple of small hiccups MOR. :)

[Masterofreality]

And to complete Biden’s Superfecta of Sh&%t, the stock market dropped over 500 points today over concerns about China.
Meanwhile, the loud Presidential critics of the last 4 years like Paul, all of a sudden are silent. And the Trump/Russia narrative has been proven by Durham to be false.
Where is the outrage???? #Crickets

[paulxu]

And to complete Biden’s Superfecta of Sh&%t, the stock market dropped over 500 points today over concerns about China.
Meanwhile, the loud Presidential critics of the last 4 years like Paul, all of a sudden are silent. And the Trump/Russia narrative has been proven by Durham to be false.
Where is the outrage???? #Crickets

I'm not quite sure what the president has to do with a Chinese real estate conglomerate that is in trouble with its debts...but, whatever makes you happy.
I'm pretty sure that Durham hasn't proven anything false about Trump people and their connection with Russia...like Manafort giving data to a Russian intelligence officer, or Russians doing social media nonsense and getting indicted, etc. Manafort was guilty and was pardoned.

If you really are interested in the Durham investigation and indictment, read this. (No, I don't think you actually will)

https://www.lawfareblog.com/special-counsels-weird-prosecution-michael-sussmann

[Smails]

Not a whole lot of approval rating talk on this board these days...seemed like getting a daily update was the norm over the last few years. Odd...

[xuwillie]

Not a whole lot of approval rating talk on this board these days...seemed like getting a daily update was the norm over the last few years. Odd...

Liberals on this board are very good at being hypocritical

[Masterofreality]

Liberals on this board are very good at being hypocritical

See, if you are silent then you can’t be accused of being hypocritical. That is Paul’s master plan.
I suppose he would be silent as his house burned to the ground after he told his neighbors to clean up an imagined mess with gasoline.

[Masterofreality]

For 4 years all we heard from Paul was “Russian compromised President”.
Welp. This article puts that “theory” (being kind) to rest.
BTW. Glen Greenwald is a Liberal journalist.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-indictment-of-hillary-clintons-b42

[paulxu]

See, if you are silent then you can’t be accused of being hypocritical. That is Paul’s master plan.
I suppose he would be silent as his house burned to the ground after he told his neighbors to clean up an imagined mess with gasoline.


I'm not quite sure what the president has to do with a Chinese real estate conglomerate that is in trouble with its debts...but, whatever makes you happy.
I'm pretty sure that Durham hasn't proven anything false about Trump people and their connection with Russia...like Manafort giving data to a Russian intelligence officer, or Russians doing social media nonsense and getting indicted, etc. Manafort was guilty and was pardoned.

If you really are interested in the Durham investigation and indictment, read this. (No, I don't think you actually will)

https://www.lawfareblog.com/special-counsels-weird-prosecution-michael-sussmann

Bump.

Greenwald is far from a liberal these days. Just look at the first paragraph in the link you sent:

A lawyer for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign was indicted on Wednesday with one felony count of lying to the FBI about a fraudulent Russiagate story he helped propagate.

He wasn't charged for lying about a fraudulent story; he was charged with lying about "his client."
Take a few minutes and read the link I sent you. The charge is tenuous at best, and may never result in anything.
Meanwhile, Manafort was pardoned by Trump for his crimes and was working with a Russian intelligence officer.

[Muskie in dayton]

Liberals everywhere all the time are very good at being hypocritical
Fixed that for you.

On that note, the City of New York’s proof of vax requirement is effectively barring 70% of the black population from restaurant and entertainment venues. You can’t make these things up.

[paulxu]

That mandate applies to all.
So, 56% of blacks would be denied admission.
Similarly, 48% of whites would also.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page#nyc

[Masterofreality]

Bump.

Greenwald is far from a liberal these days. Just look at the first paragraph in the link you sent:


He wasn't charged for lying about a fraudulent story; he was charged with lying about "his client."
Take a few minutes and read the link I sent you. The charge is tenuous at best, and may never result in anything.
Meanwhile, Manafort was pardoned by Trump for his crimes and was working with a Russian intelligence officer.

Ha!! The charge is absolutely not tenuous. It is merely the tip of the iceberg. If Sussman was so clean, along with his partner in crime Elias, why did the law firm that they worked for summarily separate them from the firm? Durham has a lot more coming and it’s gonna be great to see.
Manafort was convicted for tax issues, not a Trump collusion issue.
“ Verdict. On August 21, their fourth day of deliberation, the jury found Manafort guilty on 8 of the 18 felony counts, including five counts of filing false tax returns, two counts of bank fraud, and one count of failing to disclose a foreign bank account. Judge Ellis declared a mistrial on the remaining 10 charges.”

A two year $30 million investigation by Mueller couldn’t find any collusion, but you just keep entertaining your delusional fantasy Paul.
This Wall Street Journal article today hits it on the head:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/durham-russiagate-collusion-sussmann-clinton-trump-steele-mueller-fbi-lie-indictment-11631909191?st=4nqf6mnd8s88p1f&reflink=article_copyURL_share

Meanwhile I await your incisive commentary on the present Biden dumpster fire that you studiously avoid saying anything about.
What say you?

By the way, Greenwald absolutely is still a Liberal, he’s just not IlLiberal like over the top people like you prefer.

[paulxu]

As I noted, he was pardoned for his crimes as charged.
I didn't indicate the pardon covered his work with a Russian intelligence officer.


And the pardon itself rewarded not just decades of substantial criminal activity, but also rewarded Manafort for keeping his lips sealed and lying to the Special Counsel about important topics. These topics include why he passed internal Trump campaign polling data to a Russian spy and why he met with that spy both during the campaign and after Trump took office.

https://www.justsecurity.org/74241/the-gaps-in-trumps-pardons-how-the-biden-administration-can-still-pursue-justice/

[Masterofreality]

As I noted, he was pardoned for his crimes as charged.
I didn't indicate the pardon covered his work with a Russian intelligence officer.



https://www.justsecurity.org/74241/the-gaps-in-trumps-pardons-how-the-biden-administration-can-still-pursue-justice/

But you alluded to it by saying he was “working with a Russian Intelligence Officer” and never said what exactly he was convicted of and charged with. There was zero about his”Russian Intelligence Officer” in the convictions, just financial and tax stuff. But “Trump & Russia” right?

By the way. On your earlier discussion about masks & vaxxes. Yeah, we have a problem with People of Color, not just rubes?

https://jimtreacher.substack.com/p/is-the-coronavirus-stronger-than

[Masterofreality]

Biden Approval Rating per Gallup:
53% Disapprove
43% Approve

Looks like Paul’s hero is in free fall. I wonder why??

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/20/how-we-know-the-drop-in-trumps-approval-rating-in-january-reflected-a-real-shift-in-public-opinion/ft_2021-01-20_trumppoll_01/

[paulxu]

I suggest people who really care about how close our country came to losing its way, read Peril.

[Strange Brew]

I suggest people who really care about how close our country came to losing its way, read Peril.

I think the polls posted by MOR are showing how much people realize we are currently lost under Xiden.

[Smails]

I suggest people who really care about how close our country came to losing its way, read Peril.

When pressed about the failings of our CURRENT President.

Response: "Read Peril"

Oh and who get's to define what 'America losing it's way' looks like?

[Masterofreality]

I suggest people who really care about how close our country came to losing its way, read Peril.

A President who is messing the bed on every measure on everything and won’t (or not allowed to) answer questions from the media.
Seems like that lack of leadership and solid decision making is the real “peril”.
What about now, Paul? Biden is the President for 8 months now. Address today!

[paulxu]

Unfortunately the book addresses the peril we still face today.

I support the agenda Biden has for working on the pandemic, protecting voting rights, finally building the country's infrastructure.
Hopefully the Republicans, after raising the debt limit without concern under Trump, will not try and tank our economy now for politics.

[Strange Brew]

Unfortunately the book addresses the peril we still face today.

I support the agenda Biden has for working on the pandemic, protecting voting rights, finally building the country's infrastructure.
Hopefully the Republicans, after raising the debt limit without concern under Trump, will not try and tank our economy now for politics.

If you believe this you truly have 0 clue about how anything works.

[GoMuskies]

Bob Woodward has been reduced to writing spank bank material for TDS sufferers? Sad.

[Masterofreality]

Unfortunately the book addresses the peril we still face today.

I support the agenda Biden has for working on the pandemic, protecting voting rights, finally building the country's infrastructure.
Hopefully the Republicans, after raising the debt limit without concern under Trump, will not try and tank our economy now for politics.

How Ironic that the “peril we face today” is accurately described in your next paragraph.
-“Protecting voting rights” = Easing opportunities for voter fraud and ballot harvesting, while not requiring even ID.
-“Finally building the country’s Infrastructure”- Does not mean the Bi-partisan bill of 1.2 trillion that a group of Senators put together to work on actual Infrastructure projects and seems needed. No it means only insisting on this pork laden and wasteful $3.5 trillion boondoggle of a plan that even 2 Democratic Senators are opposing. A plan so wasteful that it WOULD tank the economy with borrowed Chinese money and cannot be covered with tax receipts. The perfect example of voo doo economics.
Hopefully sensible Democrats like Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema won’t be pressured and whipped into submission by Radical Democrats like Biden, Schumer & Pelosi so the country doesn’t go bankrupt and inflation really runs higher than now…taking away all income gains from the lower & Middle class gained under Trump’s policies.

Meanwhile, the messes from The Southern border, Afghanistan Drone Strikes killing kids and Inflation remain unaddressed.
And now even left wing publications have confirmed the NY Post story of a year ago regarding Hunter Biden’s laptop that had emails verifying that Hunter was being paid by Ukraine & China for influence, plus “The Big Guy” Joe being paid off as well. Maybe a President who truly has been compromised and beholden financially to our biggest world enemy might actually be a “Peril” Paul???
Oh, and about that “I will shut down the virus” thing…….
#DumpsterFire

[paulxu]

Maybe you should read Yellen in the WSJ, and I would still suggest reading Peril.

[bjf123]

And now even left wing publications have confirmed the NY Post story of a year ago regarding Hunter Biden’s laptop that had emails verifying that Hunter was being paid by Ukraine & China for influence, plus “The Big Guy” Joe being paid off as well. Maybe a President who truly has been compromised and beholden financially to our biggest world enemy might actually be a “Peril” Paul???


Wanna bet the “left wing publications” knew this before the election and chose to kill the story to help Biden win?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Muskie in dayton]

That mandate applies to all.
So, 56% of blacks would be denied admission.
Similarly, 48% of whites would also.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page#nyc
It appears BLM disagrees.

[Muskie in dayton]

That video footage of the “lnsurrection” that came out yesterday… it looks like a large tour group perusing the Capital Building. No wonder the prosecution wanted that hidden. The narrative continues to crumble.

[Muskie in dayton]

Biden Approval Rating per Gallup:
53% Disapprove
43% Approve

Looks like Paul’s hero is in free fall. I wonder why??

So it’s really 63%/33%. Who the hell are these 33% who approve??? I mean he doesn’t mean-tweet, so there that…

[Strange Brew]

That video footage of the “lnsurrection” that came out yesterday… it looks like a large tour group perusing the Capital Building. No wonder the prosecution wanted that hidden. The narrative continues to crumble.

Said this months ago but the likes of Bobbie fell for the media bs again. Don’t forget an unarmed woman was shot dead.

[Masterofreality]

Said this months ago but the likes of Bobbie fell for the media bs again. Don’t forget an unarmed woman was shot dead.

Looked like a bunch of tourists walking around taking pictures & videos with cell phones. Not a gun in sight but lots of flags.
Some “insurrection”.
That doesn’t mean that people should have gone inside the Capitol, but the hyperbole surrounding this thing is way overblown. Just as Glen Greenwald wrote months ago.
Meanwhile actual riots in Kenosha, Minneapolis and Portland, et al, that resulted in multiple deaths were excused. There’s your real Peril Paul.

[paulxu]

Nobody's excusing any of the riots.
But people are working hard to excuse the behavior of the people at the Capitol.

[Masterofreality]

Maybe you should read Yellen in the WSJ, and I would still suggest reading Peril.

Welp. Yellen says raise the Debt Limit. The Democrats hold the seats and can raise the Debt limit on their own, so why don’t they??? Seems cut & dry to me.
And why doesn’t Yellen opine on $3.5 trillion of additional spending that is absolutely not covered by revenue and will increase further the National Debt and Inflation? Maybe because it would undermine Biden, her boss? Yeah, I think so.

[Masterofreality]

Nobody's excusing any of the riots.
But people are working hard to excuse the behavior of the people at the Capitol.

No one is excusing anyone at the Capitol. They are being caught and charged. but ask yourself why the prosecutors tried so hard to block the release of those surveillance cam videos? Why?
BECAUSE THEY SHOWED NO ONE DOING ANYTHING VIOLENT OR SUBVERSIVE TO OUR COUNTRY. Trespass where they shouldn’t have been? Yes and charge and prosecute for their infractions. But the only death was from the bullet of a guard. None on the trespassers.

And yeah The riots ARE excused. Liberal Prosecutors in Portland and other torn cities have released and refused to prosecute Police nabbed and charged perpetrators who caused this iish. That has been documented. If that’s not “excusing” anyone I don’t know what is.

[paulxu]

No doubt in the thousands illegally storming the Capitol to try and stop a constitutional process were hundreds of people who just got in and walked around, just trespassing. That doesn't justify them being there.
Here's an in-depth report on the deaths from the riots and what happened to those responsible.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/deaths-connected-protests-story-complicated/story?id=72724790

Portland seems to be not pursuing cases of peaceful protestors, but going after those who committed crimes of looting, property damage, etc.

[Masterofreality]

No doubt in the thousands illegally storming the Capitol to try and stop a constitutional process were hundreds of people who just got in and walked around, just trespassing. That doesn't justify them being there.
Here's an in-depth report on the deaths from the riots and what happened to those responsible.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/deaths-connected-protests-story-complicated/story?id=72724790

Portland seems to be not pursuing cases of peaceful protestors, but going after those who committed crimes of looting, property damage, etc.

That story hides behind the usual dodge of “the motives remain unclear”.
Umm what about Antifa crazies shining lasers into the eyes of those guarding the Federal Courthouse in Portland? What about the officers in Louisville being injured by the throwing of Molotov cocktails and rocks? There are numerous examples of Federal Agents that were injured by Antifa anarchists. Not to mention the cold blooded killing of a right leaning counterprotestor in Portland by an Antifa guy who eventually was found & killed in a standoff in Spokane. And let’s not forget the former St.Louis police Captain who was summarily murdered trying to protect a friend’s business in the St. Louis part of the the riots. What about the Black business owner in Milwaukee and he was killed for trying to promote BLM and Trump ? That ABC story was a year ago. Where is the follow-up to clear up the “unclear motives”? Huh. It never came. The media just moved on.

91% of the people arrested and charged in Portland were not prosecuted. From
The Portland Tribune:

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/493642-396291-91-of-portland-protest-arrests-not-being-prosecuted?wallit_nosession=1

And it was not “thousands storming the Capitol.” There were thousands peacefully demonstrating in DC. A few of those entered the Capitol illegally. There was never a chance to disrupt the process. Pence certified the election. Case closed. Those protestors basically equal those that “stormed the Capitol” offices during the Bret Kavanaugh hearings. They weren’t supposed to be there either.

Get your facts straight Paul

[paulxu]

There was never a chance to disrupt the process.
Get your facts straight Paul

Well, that certainly explains the beating of the police officers, and the certification being delayed for hours, and the lawmakers (including the VP) being removed to secure locations, and the people roaming the floors of both chambers and lawmakers' offices. No chance at disrupting the process at all.
I'm not defending the lawbreakers in the George Floyd protests. They should be arrested, indicted, tried and convicted as appropriate.
Strange that you would defend the people who broke the law on January 6th.

[Masterofreality]

Well, that certainly explains the beating of the police officers, and the certification being delayed for hours, and the lawmakers (including the VP) being removed to secure locations, and the people roaming the floors of both chambers and lawmakers' offices. No chance at disrupting the process at all.
I'm not defending the lawbreakers in the George Floyd protests. They should be arrested, indicted, tried and convicted as appropriate.
Strange that you would defend the people who broke the law on January 6th.

Just like the “protestors” who stormed inside the Capitol to disrupt the Bret Kavanaugh hearings.
I defend no one who breaks the law and those who have been arrested are being prosecuted, as they should be, unlike those hundreds of rioters arrested and charged that have been released with no consequence.
The fact is that the only person who died in the Capitol incident was a protestor. Sicknick died of a stroke.
Many died in the riots from the direct actions of rioters.
The election was certified. The republic continues. Nothing else has happened since then except Biden’s disgraceful administration that refuses to answer questions about their messes and deflects to fake issues like “whips” in Border Patrol hands.
That incident is over. I’m not addressing this stuff anymore. When are you going to stop deflecting away from the current #DumpsterFire and talk about the mess in everything that is going on now, Paul? Deflection to 8 months ago does nothing to address today.

[noteggs]

How long do you think it will take before we start to hear defund the border patrol…again

[Masterofreality]

Joe Biden's job approval is 44-53 in the new poll from Pew. He was 55-43 in Pew's July poll, so this is a shift of -21 in two months. This follows yesterday's Gallup poll which had his approval at 43-53. If Biden's rebounding, Pew and Gallup don't see it.
#DumpsterFire

[xubrew]

I'm beginning to think politics is bad for humanity.

That is all! Carry on!!

[GoMuskies]

How long do you think it will take before we start to hear defund the border patrol…again

Once a Republican is elected President again?

[paulxu]

I've got an idea.
After funding a 4th audit of Arizona voting by the "CyberNinjas" and finding Biden had more votes, and Trump less....
Let's have an audit in Texas...where Trump won.
Sounds like a good use of funds.

[noteggs]

Sorry but my poor (cheap) attempt at humor.

Biden staff: Mr President, we have to find a new way for your son to make money. We can’t continue to have him make shady deals overseas especially after the potential Libya news. Think some my be on to us and we can’t keep blaming it on Russian disinformation.

Biden: just send him to the army.

Staff: sir, you tried that

Biden: oh yea forget…

Staff: Does he have any skills?

Biden: well, he did do a great finger painting in kindergarten we still have on our fridge.

Staff: perfect, we can have him do paintings and sell them for top dollar to anonymous buyers.

[noteggs]

On a serious note

At this point, not sure what actually happened with the border patrol and horses because we have an investigation.

However, Biden says it’s an embarrassment, beyond embarrassment how we’re treating (illegal - my word) migrants. Wouldn’t you like for him to show the same indignation for leaving American citizens behind in Afghanistan. Talk about beyond embarrassment and that’s putting it lightly.

[Masterofreality]

On a serious note

At this point, not sure what actually happened with the border patrol and horses because we have an investigation.

However, Biden says it’s an embarrassment, beyond embarrassment how we’re treating (illegal - my word) migrants. Wouldn’t you like for him to show the same indignation for leaving American citizens behind in Afghanistan. Talk about beyond embarrassment and that’s putting it lightly.

To recap: A White House struggling to solve an ongoing border crisis diverted blame by repeatedly attacking border agents - who can't publicly defend themselves - with false claims.

Meanwhile the blue check Twitter “fact checkers” are silent. Just like our buddy Paul on these messes.

Late add. The Biden Administration is flat out lying says the photographer who took the pictures and video that went viral.

https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-news/photographer-behind-controversial-photos-speaks-exclusively-to-ktsm/
#DumpsterFire

[Muskie in dayton]

To recap: A White House struggling to solve an ongoing border crisis diverted blame by repeatedly attacking border agents - who can't publicly defend themselves - with false claims.

Meanwhile the blue check Twitter “fact checkers” are silent. Just like our buddy Paul on these messes.

Late add. The Biden Administration is flat out lying says the photographer who took the pictures and video that went viral.

https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-news/photographer-behind-controversial-photos-speaks-exclusively-to-ktsm/
#DumpsterFire
Oh but despite how ridiculous the claim was initially AND the fact that it has been totally debunked, Biden and the Dems are still going with it. Biden will “punish” the border patrol agents. Disgusting. This should wake up a bunch more people to the Dems facade.

[bobbiemcgee]

Kayleigh McEnany tries to blame Biden for spike in murders — but quickly realizes it was under Trump 2020.
Boebert paid her rent with campaign funds.
Durham and Ninjas nothingburgers.

[Masterofreality]

Kayleigh McEnany tries to blame Biden for spike in murders — but quickly realizes it was under Trump 2020.
Boebert paid her rent with campaign funds.
Durham and Ninjas nothingburgers.

Uh, there is a huge spike in murders, this year, under Biden
Ilan Omar paid her husband/brother hundreds of thousands out of campaign funds.
Durham has only begun. The Trump/Russia claims have been totally debunked. Meanwhile the Hunter Biden laptop story has been verified.
Take your eye off the shiny objects Bobbie and focus on the#DumpsterFire that is your Biden guy’s Administration. You won’t like what you see.

[Strange Brew]

Uh, there is a huge spike in murders, this year, under Biden
Ilan Omar paid her husband/brother hundreds of thousands out of campaign funds.
Durham has only begun. The Trump/Russia claims have been totally debunked. Meanwhile the Hunter Biden laptop story has been verified.
Take your eye off the shiny objects Bobbie and focus on the#DumpsterFire that is your Biden guy’s Administration. You won’t like what you see.

Just in Maricopa County officials caught deleting election files….

[paulxu]

Durham has been investigating longer that Robert Mueller.

[Strange Brew]

Durham has been investigating longer that Robert Mueller.

Could be wrong but I think the investigation was over last summer.

[bobbiemcgee]

Just in Maricopa County officials caught deleting election files….

adding 360 votes to Biden and bilking your supporters out of 6 million.

[bobbiemcgee]

I've got an idea.
After funding a 4th audit of Arizona voting by the "CyberNinjas" and finding Biden had more votes, and Trump less....
Let's have an audit in Texas...where Trump won.
Sounds like a good use of funds.

Yeah, and let's spend millions more in Wisc, Mn and Pa...especially after the AZ fiasco. morons.
Maybe they can pay for it by turning in teenagers.

[Strange Brew]

adding 360 votes to Biden and bilking your supporters out of 6 million.

There’s more there Bobbie. And deleting the files is a crime.

[Strange Brew]

Yeah, and let's spend millions more in Wisc, Mn and Pa...especially after the AZ fiasco. morons.
Maybe they can pay for it by turning in teenagers.

You two are pathetic. Bet you guys were concerned about the money spent on hanging chads in FL…

[X-man]

Just in Maricopa County officials caught deleting election files….

Not so fast there, Skippy. Link: https://www.azmirror.com/2021/09/24/arizona-audit-a-multitude-of-unsubstantiated-claims-and-no-proof-of-fraud/

[bobbiemcgee]

You two are pathetic. Bet you guys were concerned about the money spent on hanging chads in FL…

As I recall, pubs didn't seem to mind....

[Strange Brew]

As I recall, pubs didn't seem to mind....

I didn’t care back then either. You two are complaining about the costs not me.

[Smails]

I didn’t care back then either. You two are complaining about the costs not me.

Yeah...I'm not sure crying foul when it comes to unnecessary spending on horeshit investigations is a hill that Paul and Bobbie would want to die on.

It's almost as if frick and frack thinks everyone on this forum forgot what happened over the last 4 years and somehow the world started over when Biden was elected.

[bobbiemcgee]

So you admit he won? Refreshing.

[Smails]

So you admit he won? Refreshing.

I'm not sure what that means (and perhaps you don't either) but I have never challenged the results of the election. I think you're confusing me with someone else and I forgive you for that.

[bobbiemcgee]

Guess we won't need anymore stupid audits, which was the point here.

[Masterofreality]

Guess we won't need anymore stupid audits, which was the point here.

No. Now we get stupid ADULTS like Biden who it was proven today in Congressional testimony that he bold faced lied about the troop pullout in Afghanistan. Just like he lied about whips in the hands of Border Patrol. Just like he lied about Inflation. Just like he lied about “Shutting down the virus”. Etc

[xuwillie]

Guess we won't need anymore stupid audits, which was the point here.

You probably agree that all those impeachment trials where also dumb and a waste of taxpayers money.

[noteggs]

Sanders: “No bipartisan infrastructure deal unless $3.5T spending bill passes first.” Let that sink in…

Honestly why have a bipartisan bill, if Democrats are going to ram through a bill that’s 3 times as large? Note: heard second “human” infrastructure bill is closer to 5 trillion. Hats off to the Democrats for potentially making the Republicans look like complete idiots…again.

[boozehound]

This thread is quite a journey. Now the some of the guys who were admonishing everyone for having 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' are rage posting about Joe Biden multiple times a day and touting approval rating polls while the other guys are jumping through hoops to defend Biden.

It's like you've switched bodies!

[bjf123]

This thread is quite a journey. Now the some of the guys who were admonishing everyone for having 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' are rage posting about Joe Biden multiple times a day and touting approval rating polls while the other guys are jumping through hoops to defend Biden.

It's like you've switched bodies!

And this is a surprise because………


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[noteggs]

This thread is quite a journey. Now the some of the guys who were admonishing everyone for having 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' are rage posting about Joe Biden multiple times a day and touting approval rating polls while the other guys are jumping through hoops to defend Biden.

It's like you've switched bodies!

Think your post is half right. Don’t see a lot of Biden defense though. Much to defend these days, but…

Still see a lot of Trump stuff here months later. Can’t completely blame people because they are just parroting the news.

[Muskie in dayton]

Who is this Brandon guy everyone is cheering for?

[GoMuskies]

Happy Facebook Outage Day!

[GoMuskies]

Who is this Brandon guy everyone is cheering for?

I understood that reference.

[boozehound]

Think your post is half right. Don’t see a lot of Biden defense though. Much to defend these days, but…

Still see a lot of Trump stuff here months later. Can’t completely blame people because they are just parroting the news.

Trump is going to make sure people keep talking about Trump. It's what he does, and is basically his livelihood. I don't know if he is going to run again or not, but he is going to tease it up until the 11th hour if he doesn't run.

I don't know how many people enthusiastically voted for Biden (vs. enthusiastically voting against Trump), but that probably plays a role in the lack of defense of Biden. I would also imagine that there are a lot of people who voted for Biden, aren't particularly happy with the job he is doing, but didn't really expect him to do a very good job so they aren't surprised. I'm kind of in that camp - the only thing that has really surprised me about Biden is just how badly he F'd up the Afghanistan withdrawal. The rest is kind of what I expected.

Having said that: I will never under any circumstances vote for Trump, especially given the aftermath of the last election, so I would absolutely vote for Biden again if forced to choose between Biden and Trump in 2024. I just hope it doesn't come down to that.

[noteggs]

Trump is going to make sure people keep talking about Trump. It's what he does, and is basically his livelihood. I don't know if he is going to run again or not, but he is going to tease it up until the 11th hour if he doesn't run.

I don't know how many people enthusiastically voted for Biden (vs. enthusiastically voting against Trump), but that probably plays a role in the lack of defense of Biden. I would also imagine that there are a lot of people who voted for Biden, aren't particularly happy with the job he is doing, but didn't really expect him to do a very good job so they aren't surprised. I'm kind of in that camp - the only thing that has really surprised me about Biden is just how badly he F'd up the Afghanistan withdrawal. The rest is kind of what I expected.

Having said that: I will never under any circumstances vote for Trump, especially given the aftermath of the last election, so I would absolutely vote for Biden again if forced to choose between Biden and Trump in 2024. I just hope it doesn't come down to that.

Fair points for the most part. Agree, Trump will attempt to make sure he stays relevant for some. Think him running again would be disastrous for the party and on board with him never running again. However, what I’m talking about is from this board and with the media on Trump’s past behaviors or blaming him for all of Biden’s failures.

Even, though I did like Trump’s policies (except for the spending) while in office, the J6 moment really lost it for me. Actually can say same thing with Biden and Afghanistan. Number one job for the President is to keep citizens safe and leaving them behind is unconscionable. Most would agree leaving only one behind is one too many. Finally, add in the fact he has only addressed the issue once since the final days of withdrawal. Still voting for him after this issue alone would be sad in my view.

If Trump were still in office, their still would be wall to wall coverage and press would be hunting down every stranded person and doing reports.
I knew the press would try to defend and protect him, but wish they would seek those stranded so we can get them all back safely vs ignoring the incompetency.

Side note: surprised how liberal/progressive and divisive Biden has become. Also saddened we have only two real moderate Democrats left in the Senate.

[Masterofreality]

This Administration is preposterous.
Everyone sees through this debt ceiling charade. This is why they never want Biden to answer questions. He just gives the game away.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-debt-limit-deception-joe-biden-democrats-reconciliation-bill-11633463734?st=d1t1lrwl9b5to97&reflink=article_copyURL_share

[Masterofreality]

This thread is quite a journey. Now the some of the guys who were admonishing everyone for having 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' are rage posting about Joe Biden multiple times a day and touting approval rating polls while the other guys are jumping through hoops to defend Biden.

It's like you've switched bodies!

Mr. Paul is amazingly silent. Continually. I see zero defense of Biden and his lies on here.

[Muskie in dayton]

Trump is going to make sure people keep talking about Trump. It's what he does, and is basically his livelihood. I don't know if he is going to run again or not, but he is going to tease it up until the 11th hour if he doesn't run.

I don't know how many people enthusiastically voted for Biden (vs. enthusiastically voting against Trump), but that probably plays a role in the lack of defense of Biden. I would also imagine that there are a lot of people who voted for Biden, aren't particularly happy with the job he is doing, but didn't really expect him to do a very good job so they aren't surprised. I'm kind of in that camp - the only thing that has really surprised me about Biden is just how badly he F'd up the Afghanistan withdrawal. The rest is kind of what I expected.

Having said that: I will never under any circumstances vote for Trump, especially given the aftermath of the last election, so I would absolutely vote for Biden again if forced to choose between Biden and Trump in 2024. I just hope it doesn't come down to that.
Do I paraphrase accurately: “Biden sucks worse than we ever thought possible, but I’ll take a ruined country over the narcissistic asshole.”

[paulxu]

The proposed bill of $3.5 trillion is over 10 years...not in one year.
It curiously equals the Bush/Trump tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy.
We were fine in 2000 with a balanced budget and forecast to have a surplus (that might have helped do a lot of things).
Unneeded military ventures (not the disbanding of Al Queada) cost trillions more.
We could have done better, but didn't. Now we are left needing massive efforts to shore up our infrastructure and jump start the economy and manufacturing at home.
And I would much rather have Biden trying to address these problems than Trump, worried about his big lie that he's convinced so many suckers to believe in.

[Strange Brew]

The proposed bill of $3.5 trillion is over 10 years...not in one year.
It curiously equals the Bush/Trump tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy.
We were fine in 2000 with a balanced budget and forecast to have a surplus (that might have helped do a lot of things).
Unneeded military ventures (not the disbanding of Al Queada) cost trillions more.
We could have done better, but didn't. Now we are left needing massive efforts to shore up our infrastructure and jump start the economy and manufacturing at home.
And I would much rather have Biden trying to address these problems than Trump, worried about his big lie that he's convinced so many suckers to believe in.

Tax costs don’t cost anything. Now that the wars are over let’s use that money to pay for things and keep spending where it is/was.

[Muskie in dayton]

Tax costs don’t cost anything. Now that the wars are over let’s use that money to pay for things and keep spending where it is/was.
Better yet let’s cut the size of government by at least 50%… as a start.

[Strange Brew]

Better yet let’s cut the size of government by at least 50%… as a start.

That suggestion while practical is unfathomable for some. I mean don’t you use the roads, police and fire dept? Just move to some anarchy State already. :)

[Masterofreality]

The proposed bill of $3.5 trillion is over 10 years...not in one year.
It curiously equals the Bush/Trump tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy.
We were fine in 2000 with a balanced budget and forecast to have a surplus (that might have helped do a lot of things).
Unneeded military ventures (not the disbanding of Al Queada) cost trillions more.
We could have done better, but didn't. Now we are left needing massive efforts to shore up our infrastructure and jump start the economy and manufacturing at home.
And I would much rather have Biden trying to address these problems than Trump, worried about his big lie that he's convinced so many suckers to believe in.

Seems as if Biden is the guy who “suckered” the suckers in. And they have woken up to his incompetence.
From the latest Quinnipiac poll- a poll that is most assuredly not right leaning:
” Biden’s approve-disapprove rating is 4–94 among Republicans, it’s 32–60 among independents, and it’s 80–10 among Democrats. If Americans in 2021 are “united” around anything, it’s that they disfavor Joe Biden.

And how. By a margin of 56–41, Americans say that Biden lacks leadership skills. By a margin of 54–42, Americans say that Biden is incompetent. By a margin of 50–44, Americans say that Biden is dishonest. Worse yet, there’s no issue on which Biden is doing well. His approve–disapprove on COVID-19 is 48–50; on the economy, it’s 39–55; on his leadership of the military, it’s 37–58 . On taxes, 37 percent of Americans approve, while 54 percent disapprove; on foreign policy, it’s 34–58 percent; and on immigration, it’s a startling 25–67 percent. That last number is particularly interesting because, if you look at the cross-tabs, you see that Biden is underwater on immigration amongst Hispanics by 46 points, 23–69.”

The economy does not need “jump starting”. What it needs is for the government to get out of the damn way by not disincentivizing work and letting employers fill their jobs. It needs the government to stop harrassing businesses with threats of higher taxes to pay for unneeded programs that can’t be paid for so the businesses can grow.

We could have done better- than Biden but didn’t. By far!!

[boozehound]

Tax costs don’t cost anything. Now that the wars are over let’s use that money to pay for things and keep spending where it is/was.

If you are talking about reducing the defense budget to fund programs and infrastructure at home, I couldn't agree more. We currently spend an astronomical amount on defense spending, and yet are still unprepared for modern warfare (which is increasingly taking place in the virtual realm).

https://i.imgur.com/WuLX1jf.jpg

For some reason, neither side of the aisle wants to do that though. The Democrats pay lip service to it from time to time, but for the most part they don't actually put it in the budget. Don't think for a second thought that mainstream Republicans wouldn't absolutely excoriate Democrats if they significantly cut defense spending though.

I'm all for the United States maintaining the most powerful Military in the world. I just think we can probably do it for less than 3X what China spends. Lot of Defense Industry money flowing into political coffers though...

[Strange Brew]

If you are talking about reducing the defense budget to fund programs and infrastructure at home, I couldn't agree more. We currently spend an astronomical amount on defense spending, and yet are still unprepared for modern warfare (which is increasingly taking place in the virtual realm).

https://i.imgur.com/WuLX1jf.jpg

For some reason, neither side of the aisle wants to do that though. The Democrats pay lip service to it from time to time, but for the most part they don't actually put it in the budget. Don't think for a second thought that mainstream Republicans wouldn't absolutely excoriate Democrats if they significantly cut defense spending though.

I'm all for the United States maintaining the most powerful Military in the world. I just think we can probably do it for less than 3X what China spends. Lot of Defense Industry money flowing into political coffers though...

Would help to reallocate resources in and from the defense budget. Also, we could get rid of some of the non military programs the military runs. The military serves one function and it’s doing too much right now.

[Smails]

And I would much rather have Biden trying to address these problems than Trump, worried about his big lie that he's convinced so many suckers to believe in.

Wow..this mindset is just scary. What has President Biden done (besides not being Donald Trump) that gives you confidence in his ability to address the problems we have with the labor force, inflation, and the border crisis? What has he actually done?

[boozehound]

Would help to reallocate resources in and from the defense budget. Also, we could get rid of some of the non military programs the military runs. The military serves one function and it’s doing too much right now.

A cynic may say that the military running so many programs is a byproduct of a large military during a protracted period of (relative) peace, and a government that is trying to find things for them to 'do'. Which I don't entirely hate. If you have a standing army of about 1.3M people you need to find something for them to do other that just sitting around waiting for a war.

[boozehound]

Wow..this mindset is just scary. What has President Biden done (besides not being Donald Trump) that gives you confidence in his ability to address the problems we have with the labor force, inflation, and the border crisis? What has he actually done?

That's a fair push, but there is also a opposite mindset that is also scary.

I believe that you have previously indicated that you don't believe there was widespread electoral fraud (although not entirely sure you have stated that). Let's say I concede that from a policy perspective Trump was superior to Biden (I don't, necessarily, but for the sake of argument)... How much does it matter that he tried to overturn the election after losing? Even if you remove the January 6th "protest" from the equation, there is still loads of evidence that Trump and his inner circle tried to influence a variety of people across several states to intervene on his behalf in the electoral process. If that's not a red line on whether someone should be President, what is? What is left that he could do that would be a disqualifier?

I don't think Biden is doing a good job. I also don't think Biden orTrump should be President in 2024. Hell, I don't think either one of them should be President right now. I hope we have a choice in 2024. I will say - Biden would have to REALLY screw things up for me to vote for Trump in 2024 if those are the options. Mostly due to how he handled the election loss.

[Strange Brew]

A cynic may say that the military running so many programs is a byproduct of a large military during a protracted period of (relative) peace, and a government that is trying to find things for them to 'do'. Which I don't entirely hate. If you have a standing army of about 1.3M people you need to find something for them to do other that just sitting around waiting for a war.

Probably need to consider whether a million plus fighting force is still needed.

[Strange Brew]

That's a fair push, but there is also a opposite mindset that is also scary.

I believe that you have previously indicated that you don't believe there was widespread electoral fraud (although not entirely sure you have stated that). Let's say I concede that from a policy perspective Trump was superior to Biden (I don't, necessarily, but for the sake of argument)... How much does it matter that he tried to overturn the election after losing? Even if you remove the January 6th "protest" from the equation, there is still loads of evidence that Trump and his inner circle tried to influence a variety of people across several states to intervene on his behalf in the electoral process. If that's not a red line on whether someone should be President, what is? What is left that he could do that would be a disqualifier?

I don't think Biden is doing a good job. I also don't think Biden orTrump should be President in 2024. Hell, I don't think either one of them should be President right now. I hope we have a choice in 2024. I will say - Biden would have to REALLY screw things up for me to vote for Trump in 2024 if those are the options. Mostly due to how he handled the election loss.

Did you feel the same about the efforts post 2016 to overturn the election and remove Trump over fraudulent Russiagate?

[boozehound]

Did you feel the same about the efforts post 2016 to overturn the election and remove Trump over fraudulent Russiagate?

I felt the investigation was probably warranted, but the impeachment was not, as they did not find sufficient evidence to impeach.

I also draw a pretty firm distinction between a bunch of morons in Congress wasting time on a doomed impeachment trial and a sitting President personally hitting the phones to try to get the election results changed through various means. An impeachment trial works within the confines of the political system which required a 2/3 majority of the Senate to convict and remove, which is also why it was doomed from day 1. I'd argue that what Trump did was to try to work outside of the intent of the political system to impact the results of the election.

In defense of Trump's character (sort of), I do think that he believes he won the election and was/is fighting for justice. I don't think he has any evidence he won (because he didn't), but I think he believes it. I don't think he believes he could have lost unless the election was rigged, and I think he could pass a lie detector to that effect. I also think that fact, if anything, makes him even less suitable to be the President than I thought he was before. He isn't actively setting out to destroy our Democracy, but if it's collateral damage in him not accepting that he could have lost an election he's fine with that.

[Strange Brew]

I felt the investigation was probably warranted, but the impeachment was not, as they did not find sufficient evidence to impeach.

I also draw a pretty firm distinction between a bunch of morons in Congress wasting time on a doomed impeachment trial and a sitting President personally hitting the phones to try to get the election results changed through various means. An impeachment trial works within the confines of the political system which required a 2/3 majority of the Senate to convict and remove, which is also why it was doomed from day 1. I'd argue that what Trump did was to try to work outside of the intent of the political system to impact the results of the election.

In defense of Trump's character (sort of), I do think that he believes he won the election and was/is fighting for justice. I don't think he has any evidence he won (because he didn't), but I think he believes it. I don't think he believes he could have lost unless the election was rigged, and I think he could pass a lie detector to that effect. I also think that fact, if anything, makes him even less suitable to be the President than I thought he was before. He isn't actively setting out to destroy our Democracy, but if it's collateral damage in him not accepting that he could have lost an election he's fine with that.

Fair answer.

Pet peeve. It's not our Democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. We are not and should not be a Democracy.

[Smails]

That's a fair push, but there is also a opposite mindset that is also scary.

I believe that you have previously indicated that you don't believe there was widespread electoral fraud (although not entirely sure you have stated that). Let's say I concede that from a policy perspective Trump was superior to Biden (I don't, necessarily, but for the sake of argument)... How much does it matter that he tried to overturn the election after losing? Even if you remove the January 6th "protest" from the equation, there is still loads of evidence that Trump and his inner circle tried to influence a variety of people across several states to intervene on his behalf in the electoral process. If that's not a red line on whether someone should be President, what is? What is left that he could do that would be a disqualifier?

I don't think Biden is doing a good job. I also don't think Biden orTrump should be President in 2024. Hell, I don't think either one of them should be President right now. I hope we have a choice in 2024. I will say - Biden would have to REALLY screw things up for me to vote for Trump in 2024 if those are the options. Mostly due to how he handled the election loss.

This is all fair and yes, I never believed there was widespread fraud within voting system to oust DJT from office. If Trump would not have become unhinged in the months leading up to the election and post-election, I would get behind a bid for reelection. I can deal with someone being an asshole if they have all their faculties. 2024 is a long time away but if this country has to choose between President Trump and Biden again..it will be another 4 year shit show no matter who wins. I guess I'd rather have a 4 year shit show with someone I align with on public policy if it comes down to it. It might be a 'hold your nose and vote' moment for a lot of Americans.

[Masterofreality]

Ron DeSantis vs Kamala Harris= 45 state wipeout win for Republicans.
DeSantis has been correct on everything and counters media BS with facts.

[MADXSTER]

If you are talking about reducing the defense budget to fund programs and infrastructure at home, I couldn't agree more. We currently spend an astronomical amount on defense spending, and yet are still unprepared for modern warfare (which is increasingly taking place in the virtual realm).

https://i.imgur.com/WuLX1jf.jpg

For some reason, neither side of the aisle wants to do that though. The Democrats pay lip service to it from time to time, but for the most part they don't actually put it in the budget. Don't think for a second thought that mainstream Republicans wouldn't absolutely excoriate Democrats if they significantly cut defense spending though.

I'm all for the United States maintaining the most powerful Military in the world. I just think we can probably do it for less than 3X what China spends. Lot of Defense Industry money flowing into political coffers though...

I don't trust any numbers thrown out by China or Russia regarding spending, scholastic test scores, or anything else. To do so is flat out stupid IMO.

[bobbiemcgee]

Ron DeSantis vs Kamala Harris= 45 state wipeout win for Republicans.
DeSantis has been correct on everything and counters media BS with facts.

trump sez he will beat him. finally :jawdrop2:giving up on old orange?

[Strange Brew]

trump sez he will beat him. finally :jawdrop2:giving up on old orange?

Let’s go Brandon!

[Masterofreality]

trump sez he will beat him. finally :jawdrop2:giving up on old orange?

I was never “in” on “old orange” but I was, and still is on the effective POLICIES!
How’s your guy doing right now Bobbie and Paul? Not so hot.
If DeSantis runs, he’ll beat Trump in the primaries.

[Masterofreality]

We went to Wisconsin for a Granddaughter Birthday last week. Just for the helluva it I had a few free minutes and drove through Kenosha. What a horriffic, dystopian and depressing sight. All along Sheridan Rd., the main drag through the city and downtown, businesses, restaurants, The County Courthouse and even Churches like the Methodist Church right in town are boarded up and barely functioning. The Capitol riot was awful, stupid, ridiculous and uncalled for- as is all violence. But the fact that those from the "other side of the fence" decided to trash an entire in town city area over an admitted criminal being brought to justice, while the ones who were the loudest condemning Trump and the right, stood jaw locked silent-and even had funds to bail those anarchists out-is two faced, craven, disingenuous and cannot be forgotten. The businesses that were damaged or destroyed forever, many were owned by minority businesspeople who were just trying to serve the community and make a living. How do their lives matter?
The scoreboard is not equal:
"Right Riots": The Capitol. No businesses destroyed.
"Left Riots:": Minneapolis- Tons of businesses Damaged or wiped out.
Portland " "
Kenosha " "
Seattle " "
Chicago " "
Atlanta " "
Philadelphia " "
Louisville " "
Cleveland " "
The only "possible" justifiable unrest was in Minneapolis over Floyd- caused by one isolated lousy cop who was an idiot and should have been kicked off the force years ago. Every other one was over Police doing their jobs fighting crime and caused by Antifa and Leftist Anarchists. How do you think the dedicated Black Police Officers and Police Chiefs feel about this absurdity? None of those Anarchist jerks would have been celebrated by Dr. King. Remember how we are supposed to judge folks on the "Content of Their Character"? I don't think Jacob Blake would be judged well by Dr. King. But there's ABC News stoking division by having him interviewed by Michael Strahan this week, when the nation, I think, is trying to heal. Imagine a Woman Abuser, a kidnapper and a felon with a weapon resisting arrest and attacking Police being propped on National TV. Welp. Here we are in Biden's America.
Get ready for 4 years of a Disinformation Reset.

Outcome. The Federal Government—now controlled by Democrats so you can’t say it was partisan— has declined to prosecute the Kenosha police officers involved in the Jacob Blake case. They are totally exonerated for merely doing their job.
All that destruction by leftist anarchists over the Police doing their job properly. And this garbage happened all over the country with billions in dollars of destruction and countless businesses- many owned by People of Color- destroyed.
Biden and Harris had to make a show of going to Wisconsin to meet Blake and comfort his family- in other words to give comfort to a criminal FELON!
That seems to be a bit more of a threat to the American way of life, and the rule of law, than a few idiots who entered the Capitol on 1/6. One was incredibly stupid. The other was destructive in multiple areas. Kenosha is ruined for years. The Capitol is back to it’s dysfunctional operations with barely a blip.

[bobbiemcgee]

I was never “in” on “old orange” but I was, and still is on the effective POLICIES!
If DeSantis runs, he’ll beat Trump in the primaries.

Hahaha you were never "in" on trump. C'mon. Looking forward to the MAGA wars between Ronny and Donny. Ramp up the insult meter.

[Masterofreality]

Hahaha you were never "in" on trump. C'mon. Looking forward to the MAGA wars between Ronny and Donny. Ramp up the insult meter.

Uh, policies and philosophy are different from narcissism. Unfortunately Biden and Incompetence are one in the same.
Talk about your guy Bobbie. He stinks. You just can’t move on can you?

[paulxu]

The Capitol was breached for the first time in 200 years by insurrectionists who threatened the life of the vice president and congress, while the president was plotting with outliers at DOJ to circumvent the election and declare himself the winner...and you think it was a "few" idiots...who still believe the big lie and some want to use force to change the result?
Amazing.

[Strange Brew]

The Capitol was breached for the first time in 200 years by insurrectionists who threatened the life of the vice president and congress, while the president was plotting with outliers at DOJ to circumvent the election and declare himself the winner...and you think it was a "few" idiots...who still believe the big lie and some want to use force to change the result?
Amazing.

Cool story bro!

[Masterofreality]

The Capitol was breached for the first time in 200 years by insurrectionists who threatened the life of the vice president and congress, while the president was plotting with outliers at DOJ to circumvent the election and declare himself the winner...and you think it was a "few" idiots...who still believe the big lie and some want to use force to change the result?
Amazing.

And he thinks QAnon is a real thing. Just keep inventing things, man.

[paulxu]

Check with your boy Mike Flynn. He seems to have run afoul of that group.

[Masterofreality]

Check with your boy Mike Flynn. He seems to have run afoul of that group.

Who and who? What are you talking about and what the hell are you reading? (No, I don’t care)
Stop deflecting from the existing Biden dumpster fire Paul.
The Russian Collusion narrative has been totally debunked. Move on

[xubrew]

Looks that way. And even if he doesn't, he's not going anywhere. Unless the GOP kicks him out, he's pretty well set up to be the frontrunner in 2024. It needed to pretty much be a landslide for him to go away, which it clearly wasn't.


If Biden wins this, my advice/statement to the Democrats would be this...

Fuck it up this time, and it may be 20 years before you ever win another election. Making promises to people in order to secure their votes and then doing jack shit for them until the time comes when you need to make more promises in order to secure more votes will sink your damn ship. A lot of people on the Right don't particularly like Trump (a lot do, but a lot don't). They just hate you. Understand that, and understand why that is.


I feel like Biden and the Democrats are not taking my advice. They are fucking it up. They made promises in exchange for people's votes. When you say there is going to be police reform and there isn't, or that you're going to get the lead out of the pipes and instead pretend to take a drink at a press conference and declare that the water is delicious (O'Bama did that and not Biden, but still...), or say that you're going to fix the infrastructure and do not, or make schools better and safer and do not, and basically say "you won't have to eat any more shit sandwiches," but yet you continue to shove shit sandwiches down the throats of the people who you made that promise to....they aren't going to like you anymore. The Dems control all three branches of government, and it's almost blatantly obvious now that they aren't going to do what they said they were going to, and a lot of the people that gave them their votes to get that power aren't going to give them their votes again.

For the last decade or so, Democrats seem to have been pretty good at getting first time voters and/or neutral party voters on their side and into their tint. They've been absolutely terrible at not taking a big gigantic dump on them once they've gotten them into the tint and gotten what they wanted out of them. And sometimes they don't even wait until they get what they want out of them!

I believe all of the following are extremely likely...

-The Dems will get absolutely blasted into the sun at the mid-terms, and most likely lose both the house and the senate

-Donald Trump will run again

-Donald Trump will probably win the nomination again because while many Republicans do not like him, the party wants/needs the votes of the people who do like him, and they won't get a lot of those votes unless it is him

-Regardless of what happens, Trump will claim he won on Election Night. And...chances are...he won't be lying this time!!

GOOD JOB DEMS!!!!

[boozehound]

The Democrats are (to an extent) running on a doomed platform. They got a gift in 2020 because they were running against Trump, and COVID happened, so they were able to get a lot of moderate votes just because they were an alternative to Trump. I think they are going to get smoked in the midterms, and probably in 2024 as well unless a lot of things change.

The Democrats core problem, as I see it, is twofold:

1. They have an ambitious legislative agenda to drive sweeping systemic change, but despite their majority they just don't have the votes. This is (to an extent) by design as massive legislative change is supposed to be difficult to enact. While I think it's unfortunate that the Republicans are as obstructionist as they are, I also think it's unfortunate that the Democrats are trying to link their more Moderate legislature (infrastructure) to their more liberal spending bill. I think that they are going to end up with nothing. They are acting like they have a mandate from the people to remake America, but in reality they are clinging to a narrow margin in the Senate and they have mediocre President who's popularity is pretty low.

The Republican agenda, on the other hand, is much simpler to enact: Cut taxes, cut regulations. That's about it. I think it's a short-term focused agenda to some extent, but Americans love that. Tax cuts are always popular, even when they are deficit funded.

2. They don't all agree on the Agenda, even remotely. Virtually every 'core' Democratic issues outside of a few (Pro-Choice, for example) sees the party deeply divided on the extent to which they should pursue it. They have a whole bunch of competing 'free stuff' programs that different people prioritize differently, and they can't afford them all. Also - leadership should have known that Joe Manchin wasn't going to vote for their massive spending bill before they made it a key priority. Now they just look disorganized and inept (probably because they are).

I don't like Mitch McConnell, but he does a much better job at keeping the Republicans unified on almost every key issue than the Democrats do. Look at the Republicans. Even when they have people within the party that don't agree with some of their core ideologic tenants, they almost always fall in line. Trump's election claims proved that - those people were willing to say completely ridiculous shit to toe the party line.

I agree with Brew - the Democrats are completely screwed in 2022 and 2024. I just hope that someone primaries Trump. There are lots of candidates that have adopted some of Trump's more successful policy points without being batshit crazy. Pick one of them instead.

[Strange Brew]

The Democrats are (to an extent) running on a doomed platform. They got a gift in 2020 because they were running against Trump, and COVID happened, so they were able to get a lot of moderate votes just because they were an alternative to Trump. I think they are going to get smoked in the midterms, and probably in 2024 as well unless a lot of things change.

The Democrats core problem, as I see it, is twofold:

1. They have an ambitious legislative agenda to drive sweeping systemic change, but despite their majority they just don't have the votes. This is (to an extent) by design as massive legislative change is supposed to be difficult to enact. While I think it's unfortunate that the Republicans are as obstructionist as they are, I also think it's unfortunate that the Democrats are trying to link their more Moderate legislature (infrastructure) to their more liberal spending bill. I think that they are going to end up with nothing. They are acting like they have a mandate from the people to remake America, but in reality they are clinging to a narrow margin in the Senate and they have mediocre President who's popularity is pretty low.

The Republican agenda, on the other hand, is much simpler to enact: Cut taxes, cut regulations. That's about it. I think it's a short-term focused agenda to some extent, but Americans love that. Tax cuts are always popular, even when they are deficit funded.

2. They don't all agree on the Agenda, even remotely. Virtually every 'core' Democratic issues outside of a few (Pro-Choice, for example) sees the party deeply divided on the extent to which they should pursue it. They have a whole bunch of competing 'free stuff' programs that different people prioritize differently, and they can't afford them all. Also - leadership should have known that Joe Manchin wasn't going to vote for their massive spending bill before they made it a key priority. Now they just look disorganized and inept (probably because they are).

I don't like Mitch McConnell, but he does a much better job at keeping the Republicans unified on almost every key issue than the Democrats do. Look at the Republicans. Even when they have people within the party that don't agree with some of their core ideologic tenants, they almost always fall in line. Trump's election claims proved that - those people were willing to say completely ridiculous shit to toe the party line.

I agree with Brew - the Democrats are completely screwed in 2022 and 2024. I just hope that someone primaries Trump. There are lots of candidates that have adopted some of Trump's more successful policy points without being batshit crazy. Pick one of them instead.

The Dems would be better served to pass the 1.5T bill and call it a win.

Also, no funding is needed for tax cuts. They are NOT an expenditure.

[Smails]

I just hope that someone primaries Trump. There are lots of candidates that have adopted some of Trump's more successful policy points without being batshit crazy. Pick one of them instead.

Ding ding ding...

[xubrew]

Ding ding ding...

I'd probably vote for that person!

[Masterofreality]

Biden’s America:
“Errantly killed” equals “Unexpected” .
Sure is a lot of that going on now. Errrrr, Paul.
From the LA Times:
“ As an aid worker for a California-based charity, the 40-year-old Zemari was also the family’s breadwinner. When he was errantly killed along with nine other family members in a U.S. drone strike in August, Emal took some solace in comments by American officials that they were considering paying compensation.
But six weeks after he lost his brother, Emal said he has yet to be contacted by the U.S. government to apologize or to offer help. A jobless father in a battered land — his 3-year-old daughter Malika was killed in the blast — Emal is struggling to provide for an extended family of 15.”

[Masterofreality]

1. They have an ambitious legislative agenda to drive sweeping systemic change, but despite their majority they just don't have the votes. This is (to an extent) by design as massive legislative change is supposed to be difficult to enact. While I think it's unfortunate that the Republicans are as obstructionist as they are….

I know you mentioned Manchin later but Sinema is a big a problem for them. Republican obstructionism is not a factor here. The Dems control everything and could pass whatever they want….EXCEPT that a couple of their Senators actually have a conscience and want to represent their constituents. The Republicans actually bailed out the Dems by giving them a debt ceiling extension. Schumer & Pelosi are idiots

[noteggs]

Interesting times. Government is trying to increase the debt ceiling, at the same time trying to increase spending over 5 trillion. Yes I know the 3.5 is over 10 years. Obviously billions/trillions more will be spent on these programs for years upon years because entitlements do not magically disappear.

We’ve had the highest illegal border crossings in decades, but just canceled wall contracts.

FBI was instructed by the DOJ to investigate school board meetings while the NSBA said some actions at meetings “could be the equivalent to a form of domestic terrorism and hate crimes.”

And…Trump still thinks he won the last election. Again interesting.

[Strange Brew]

Interesting times. Government is trying to increase the debt ceiling, at the same time trying to increase spending over 5 trillion. Yes I know the 3.5 is over 10 years. Obviously billions/trillions more will be spent on these programs for years upon years because entitlements do not magically disappear.

We’ve had the highest illegal border crossings in decades, but just canceled wall contracts.

FBI was instructed by the DOJ to investigate school board meetings while the NSBA said some actions at meetings “could be the equivalent to a form of domestic terrorism and hate crimes.”

And…Trump still thinks he won the last election. Again interesting.

Sounds like an old Chinese saying.....

May you live in interesting times. Wasn't a blessing....

[xubrew]

Yes, we need to increase the debt ceiling. Has to be done. The reason we need to do this is because we are in so much debt.

Will there ever be a day where we stop saying things like "The reason we need to go deeper into debt is because of how deeply in debt we are."

Oh! Well, since you put it THAT way...sure!!

America is like that annoying friend we had in school. We all know who I'm talking about. They always needs to borrow money, and they then blow it on bullshit and never pay it back. He/she then promises that they will pay it back if we lend them some more. As a country, we have turned in to that annoying friend.

And, I'm not (necessarily) saying we shouldn't increase the debt ceiling, but we eventually need to come up with a plan on how we are going to get out of all the debt we are in.

[paulxu]

How about trying what we had in 2000, when we had an annual surplus stretching into the future?

[Masterofreality]

How about trying what we had in 2000, when we had an annual surplus stretching into the future?

That was actually crafted by Republicans John Kasich & Newt Gingrich through the “Contract with America” after The Republican Revolution when the Repubs captured both Houses of Congress. Clinton was forced to go along with the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 and 1996 Welfare Reform legislation.

Paul doesn’t realize he’s not making the point he thinks he is.

Obama screwed that pooch

[xubrew]

How about trying what we had in 2000, when we had an annual surplus stretching into the future?

Yes, let's do that.

I don't care which party played the biggest role in making this happen. I only care that it happened. I also don't care which party would play the biggest role in making it happen again. I would only be glad that it happened.

[paulxu]

Sure he went along with it, and with reasonable tax rates we had a balanced budget and surpluses.
Along comes 2 giant tax cuts mostly benefiting the very rich (who were doing just fine in 2000) along with 2 unfunded (one of which totally unnecessary) wars. Those were the greatest drivers of our descent back into mounting debt. And no, I don't give Obama a pass because he continued the military excursion.

[Strange Brew]

Sure he went along with it, and with reasonable tax rates we had a balanced budget and surpluses.
Along comes 2 giant tax cuts mostly benefiting the very rich (who were doing just fine in 2000) along with 2 unfunded (one of which totally unnecessary) wars. Those were the greatest drivers of our descent back into mounting debt. And no, I don't give Obama a pass because he continued the military excursion.

We never paid down the debt and everyone who paid taxes benefitted from the most recent cuts. Period Paul, stop parroting nonsense.

You notably left out the unfunded CRA and D budgets of the Obama years....

[paulxu]

We were on our way to paying it way down...until this happened:


When President Bush took office in January 2001, the federal budget was on a more promising course than any President had inherited in decades. The budget had run surpluses for three straight fiscal years (after running deficits for nearly 30 years in a row) and was on course for a surplus in fiscal year 2001. More importantly, both President Bush’s Office of Management and Budget and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected that if the policies in place when President Bush took office remained unchanged, the budget would generate surpluses that would total $5.6 trillion over the next ten years[2] — more than enough to pay off the entire outstanding federal debt held by the public.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/getting-the-facts-straight

[paulxu]

You notably left out the unfunded CRA and D budgets of the Obama years....

I noted the "greatest drivers." You are correct there were others, for example the Medicare Drug program and tying the hands (which are still tied) of Medicare to negotiate drug pricing. That's just crazy.

[Strange Brew]

We were on our way to paying it way down...until this happened:



https://www.cbpp.org/research/getting-the-facts-straight

Sure, then 911 and Obama. Projected is not actual. Had nothing to do with taxes and Clinton can thank the Rs in Congress for the projected surpluses.

[Strange Brew]

I noted the "greatest drivers." You are correct there were others, for example the Medicare Drug program and tying the hands (which are still tied) of Medicare to negotiate drug pricing. That's just crazy.

Yep, not a fan of that dumb idea so Bush could win in ‘04 either. But I’m fairness I was in my early 20s but still would’ve voted differently if Lieberman ran instead of Kerry.

[Masterofreality]

We were on our way to paying it way down...until this happened:



https://www.cbpp.org/research/getting-the-facts-straight

Uh, you do know that 9/11. Happened, correct?
And that all the International Intel said that Saddam had WMD’s?
If the Dems somehow pass this monstrosity of a Bill, the US won’t be able to fund a military response to, say, a Chinese incursion into Taiwan or even worse places.

Yes, Brew. It DOES make a difference as to which party is in power.

[Strange Brew]

Uh, you do know that 9/11. Happened, correct?
And that all the International Intel said that Saddam had WMD’s?
If the Dems somehow pass this monstrosity of a Bill, the US won’t be able to fund a military response to, say, a Chinese incursion into Taiwan or even worse places.

Yes, Brew. It DOES make a difference as to which party is in power.

Don’t forget many prominent Ds voted for the Iraq war before they were against it…

[paulxu]

And that all the International Intel said that Saddam had WMD’s?


You do know I hope, that the International Intelligence community that had inspectors on the ground had found no evidence that Saddam had WMD's.
You should research the Downing Street memo, or look at the international intelligence at the point we went to war in Iraq.

https://www.armscontrol.org/blog/2013-03-05/cost-ignoring-un-inspectors-unnecessary-war-iraq


Don’t forget many prominent Ds voted for the Iraq war before they were against it…

I don't forget it, and it's not good that they were.

[Strange Brew]

You do know I hope, that the International Intelligence community that had inspectors on the ground had found no evidence that Saddam had WMD's.
You should research the Downing Street memo, or look at the international intelligence at the point we went to war in Iraq.

https://www.armscontrol.org/blog/2013-03-05/cost-ignoring-un-inspectors-unnecessary-war-iraq



I don't forget it, and it's not good that they were.

Not to rehash the argument but strategically that war was about much more than WMDs.

[X-man]

Not to rehash the argument but strategically that war was about much more than WMDs.

Yes, it was really about nation-building. But the Bush administration had to lie about that because it wouldn't fly politically. I blame the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowicz axis for that colossal and damaging CF.

[Strange Brew]

Yes, it was really about nation-building. But the Bush administration had to lie about that because it wouldn't fly politically. I blame the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowicz axis for that colossal and damaging CF.

That too and containment of Iran while securing US interests in the region.

[X-man]

That too and containment of Iran while securing US interests in the region.

"That too" implies that WMD was part of the reason. It wasn't. It was a total lie engineered by the Cheney et al nation-builders.

[Masterofreality]

Meanwhile, today, where it counts, inflation has risen to a 13 year high of 5.4% year over year.
This Administration is a Dumpster Fire. Will they ever get anything right?
Spending $5 Trillion more is, of course, the answer to curb inflation. Just keep those printing presses rolling, huh.

[Strange Brew]

"That too" implies that WMD was part of the reason. It wasn't. It was a total lie engineered by the Cheney et al nation-builders.

Nation building X-Man…..

[X-man]

Nation building X-Man…..

X-man Strange Brew...

[Strange Brew]

X-man Strange Brew...

Ok, that made me laugh...:)

[noteggs]

everyone who paid taxes benefitted from the most recent cuts. Period Paul, stop parroting nonsense.


Thank you! Not sure if I’m more tired of that argument or pitting Americans against each other. A single person making $39,000 in taxable income in 2017 saw a rate of 25%. In 2018, 2019 and beyond, that rate dropped to 12%. Can someone please explain to me how they didn’t greatly benefit from
keeping an extra $5,000 in their pocket.

Guess some think the only way lower to middle class get a benefit is if we redistributed the wealth. Oh wait, that’s what we’re trying to do now with this 3.5T bill. Think there’s a term for this, but it’s slipping my mind (sarc font).

[paulxu]

I said "mostly benefiting" the very wealthy. Sure they gave tax cuts to others, but those weren't the greatest drivers of the debt increase.
Putting $ into infrastructure with roads, bridges, utility grids, etc. is not redistributing wealth.
It's putting people to work (maybe they'll fix the Brent Spence).

[Strange Brew]

I said "mostly benefiting" the very wealthy. Sure they gave tax cuts to others, but those weren't the greatest drivers of the debt increase.
Putting $ into infrastructure with roads, bridges, utility grids, etc. is not redistributing wealth.
It's putting people to work (maybe they'll fix the Brent Spence).

Tax cuts do not create debt. Spending does. Plus, revenues/real dollars to the Treasury went up after the cuts so your argument is emotional not factual.

[Masterofreality]

I said "mostly benefiting" the very wealthy. Sure they gave tax cuts to others, but those weren't the greatest drivers of the debt increase.
Putting $ into infrastructure with roads, bridges, utility grids, etc. is not redistributing wealth.
It's putting people to work (maybe they'll fix the Brent Spence).

Hmmm. What about the Biden “Inflation Tax” that is hurting all Americans?
Real average hourly earnings have declined 1.9% since Biden’s inaugural. Wholesale producer prices increased 0.5% for September and 8.6% over the past year.
This Administration is a Dumpster Fire.

[Smails]

Putting $ into infrastructure with roads, bridges, utility grids, etc. is not redistributing wealth. It's putting people to work (maybe they'll fix the Brent Spence)

If that's where all the money was going, it would be a slam dunk pass. Alas our government shows they are once again incapable of not adding a trillion dollars of pet project spending to grease the palms of their handlers who keep them in office. Lather...rinse...repeat.

[MADXSTER]

Spending $5 Trillion more is, of course, the answer to curb inflation. Just keep those printing presses rolling, huh.

Pretty sure I saw a 'Help Wanted' sign outside the Federal Reserve Bank. There just aren't enough people willing to work even if it's to print money.

[bobbiemcgee]

trump sez republicans shouldn't vote for republicans in '22 or '24. huh?

[xubrew]

trump sez republicans shouldn't vote for republicans in '22 or '24. huh?

Yeah, this is pretty much on brand. If they GOP leadership won’t back his bullshit claims that the election was stolen, then he’ll tell his supporters to not vote at all. If he can be in office, no one else in the Republican Party can either. He never cared about anyone in that party, or for their policies, or for their ideals. I hope that becomes obvious to people who didn’t realize that before now (although I’m not holding my breath). He’s a cancer. Simple as that.

It’s amazing how much this guy messes everything up for virtually everyone who has ever been associated with him, yet he himself continues to walk through life unscathed.

[noteggs]

Putting $ into infrastructure with roads, bridges, utility grids, etc. is not redistributing wealth.
It's putting people to work (maybe they'll fix the Brent Spence).

Think you basically made the case why the Progressive’s are trying to pass the two bills at once. Those who follow this thread knows the 3.5T spending bill I referenced is not for roads and bridges.

So when you tax people making over $400,000 and corporations to pay for others child care, pre K, and community college, you are essentially redistributing their wealth. This is basically how the administration and Democrats are selling the bill while avoiding the word redistribution.

If you raise taxes on all income earners to pay for the “human” infrastructure, you can make a better case it is not. Again, it’s an us vs them mentality…as always.

[Smails]

It’s amazing how much this guy messes everything up for virtually everyone who has ever been associated with him, yet he himself continues to walk through life unscathed.

Unscathed?? What's your definition of unscathed? The man was impeached....twice

[xubrew]

Unscathed?? What's your definition of unscathed? The man was impeached....twice

Yeah, and??? It did nothing to impede him. Countless of his associates have had their lives and careers impeded, but he hasn't. He is threatening to torpedo the entire GOP if they don't get in line with what he wants. I consider him being in a position to do that as an example of him being unscathed.

[GoMuskies]

He's actually the betting favorite to win the 2024 election at my site.

[xubrew]

He's actually the betting favorite to win the 2024 election at my site.

He probably will win the 2024 election. Everything is shaping up for that to happen.

[Strange Brew]

He probably will win the 2024 election. Everything is shaping up for that to happen.

Rooting for this on policy (I think DeSantis would win too) and also because his Inauguration/victory lap(s) would be equal parts epic and tasteless. :)

[xubrew]

Rooting for this on policy (I think DeSantis would win too) and also because his Inauguration/victory lap(s) would be equal parts epic and tasteless. :)

In almost any other arena I would agree with you, but not in this one. If Trump were the president of the USSF, or of any other sports team for that matter, I think it'd be a fantastic show!! His discable-ness would be purely entertaining and of no real consequence.

I'm just having a hard time feeling good about, or laughing at, our political situation right now.

The Democrats are too stupid to realize the importance of actually delivering on what they promised to do and what they are supposed to do, and it will cost them so much of the support that they picked up in 2020 that it may be more than a decade before they get it back. They weren't smart enough to realize that Trump could win the first time, and they're stupid enough to not realize that not only can he win this next time, but that he almost assuredly will.

The Republicans are being held hostage by a narcissistic dipshit who is threatening to basically nuke the party of they don't submit to him. Republicans are so programmed to tow the party line, that they'll probably do it. Trump is being allowed to defy any and all checks and balances, which is one of the cores this nation is built on. That's a problem!! He is saying the election was stolen, when in reality the only person that tried to steal it was him. That's a problem!!

If anyone can emerge from this as an effective leader, they will get my vote. I don't care about parties. I really don't. I hate both of them to be honest, and basically blame both of them for the utter mess we are currently in. Perhaps a two-party system can be good for the nation, but it isn't being good for anything at the moment. In fact, I would argue that the two-party system is what is preventing us from not crashing into the mountain right now.

[Masterofreality]

Biden’s gonna reinstate Trump’s Mexican border policy.
I can’t stop laughing at this clown. What a Cretin administration

[Masterofreality]

For Paul who continually spews the lie that the 2017 Tax Reform Act unfairly benefitted the rich.
And as Strange Brew has accurately stated: The US deficit is due to too much spending, not due to a lack of tax revenue.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tax-the-rich-ruse-income-burden-wealthy-salt-cap-corporate-rate-loophole-biden-11634226708?st=ioa3skm526s49pe&reflink=article_copyURL_share

[paulxu]

If you cut taxes without cutting spending, and add spending like unnecessary wars and unpaid drug plans...your debt just might increase.
What was wrong with the surplus, and using it to pay down the existing debt?
Sounds like a prudent policy you might use if you owned a business, and had some outstanding debt.

[Strange Brew]

If you cut taxes without cutting spending, and add spending like unnecessary wars and unpaid drug plans...your debt just might increase.
What was wrong with the surplus, and using it to pay down the existing debt?
Sounds like a prudent policy you might use if you owned a business, and had some outstanding debt.

Agree. Cut spending add don’t add more “human infrastructure”. We spend plenty on that now. That and paying Merrick Garland’s family to run NGOs.

Oh, and Paul. “Manufacturing infrastructure” would help many problems we have right now. You’d call it corporate welfare…
Playing games with word meanings is fun and easy! :)

[Muskie in dayton]

In almost any other arena I would agree with you, but not in this one. If Trump were the president of the USSF, or of any other sports team for that matter, I think it'd be a fantastic show!! His discable-ness would be purely entertaining and of no real consequence.

I'm just having a hard time feeling good about, or laughing at, our political situation right now.

The Democrats are too stupid to realize the importance of actually delivering on what they promised to do and what they are supposed to do, and it will cost them so much of the support that they picked up in 2020 that it may be more than a decade before they get it back. They weren't smart enough to realize that Trump could win the first time, and they're stupid enough to not realize that not only can he win this next time, but that he almost assuredly will.

The Republicans are being held hostage by a narcissistic dipshit who is threatening to basically nuke the party of they don't submit to him. Republicans are so programmed to tow the party line, that they'll probably do it. Trump is being allowed to defy any and all checks and balances, which is one of the cores this nation is built on. That's a problem!! He is saying the election was stolen, when in reality the only person that tried to steal it was him. That's a problem!!

If anyone can emerge from this as an effective leader, they will get my vote. I don't care about parties. I really don't. I hate both of them to be honest, and basically blame both of them for the utter mess we are currently in. Perhaps a two-party system can be good for the nation, but it isn't being good for anything at the moment. In fact, I would argue that the two-party system is what is preventing us from not crashing into the mountain right now.
Yes, the Democrats never had any intention of delivering what they promised. They pander to their base with the same garbage over and over with no changes, and they lied about their extreme policies to get independent vote. This has been the MO for years, and now with their media mouthpieces, they have shifted so far to communism and authoritarianism that the founding principles of our nation are in peril. Meanwhile, the Republicans are worthless, basically running cover for big government policies and spending, with just enough veiled threats to keep their constituents strung along. It's really become one party - getting rich off big business bribes, kick-backs and insider trading.

It's no longer Republicans vs. Democrats, it's The Party against the people. We're losing.

[Xville]

Yes, the Democrats never had any intention of delivering what they promised. They pander to their base with the same garbage over and over with no changes, and they lied about their extreme policies to get independent vote. This has been the MO for years, and now with their media mouthpieces, they have shifted so far to communism and authoritarianism that the founding principles of our nation are in peril. Meanwhile, the Republicans are worthless, basically running cover for big government policies and spending, with just enough veiled threats to keep their constituents strung along. It's really become one party - getting rich off big business bribes, kick-backs and insider trading.

It's no longer Republicans vs. Democrats, it's The Party against the people. We're losing.

True.

I don't side with much of what he says from a policy perspective (i think ubi is batshit,) but in regards to party and failed politics, I agree with a lot of what Yang says. Hoping he gets a bit more attention in this next cycle just for a bit of a fresh perspective.

[GoMuskies]

What don't you like about UBI?

[Xville]

What don't you like about UBI?

Cost and where the money would come from.

[GoMuskies]

Cost and where the money would come from.

It's imperative that any UBI replaces and does not supplement other safety net programs. To me, it's the most cost-efficient way of handling things. And it solves a lot of issues from my perspective regarding incentives. No one has to decide between government assistance and working anymore. You're going to get your government assistance. Even Bezos is going to get it (it's going to be expensive for him!). And whatever you do from a working perspective just supplements that government assistance. You're going to have a place to sleep. You're going to have food. You're going to have clothes. If you don't have to stress about those three things, I think the average "poor" person feels more secure and can become more productive.

[Xville]

It's imperative that any UBI replaces and does not supplement other safety net programs. To me, it's the most cost-efficient way of handling things. And it solves a lot of issues from my perspective regarding incentives. No one has to decide between government assistance and working anymore. You're going to get your government assistance. Even Bezos is going to get it (it's going to be expensive for him!). And whatever you do from a working perspective just supplements that government assistance. You're going to have a place to sleep. You're going to have food. You're going to have clothes. If you don't have to stress about those three things, I think the average "poor" person feels more secure and can become more productive.

All that is certainly fair and I get that perspective. The problem I have is the cost and where the money is coming from. Businesses have to be taxed yet again as if small/midsize businesses need something else to fuck them without a lube. I also am not convinced that this would decrease a lot of bureaucratic tape and other government bs.

[Masterofreality]

Joe Biden’s now at 37% approval rating- lower than Trump.
Looks like the country has caught on to the Dumpster Fire and Independents have an even lower opinion of this guy. Pretty telling that these numbers are in place despite the fact that more people identify as Democrats than Republicans.
Your guy and your positions are failing miserably Paul and Bobbie. Get ready for a mid term blowout and Red Wave guys. Then who are you gonna blame since the former guy has been gone for awhile and has nothing to do with it.
Maybe sometime in the next 3 years Biden may actually answer a question or a few.

[XU_Lou]

TO: Republican Study Committee members

FROM: Chairman Jim Banks

DATE: October 12, 2021

RE: Reconciliation Roundup

RECONCILIATION ROUNDUP: Policies to Wreck America

TOPLINE: We as congressional Republicans have an urgent duty to tell the truth about what’s REALLY in the Democrats’ $3.5T big government socialist takeover and warn the American people what’s coming.

This bill is a disaster and should be polling at 20%. We all know it.

So, how can we explain the 52-55% approval its garnered in the polls? The chief reason that it keeps polling favorably is because we haven’t done a good enough job letting the American people know what’s in it.

Here’s what happens to public opinion when the public learns what’s in these Democrat bills. In March, before Democrats’ $1.9 trillion package passed, 70% of Americans said they favored it. Polled again in August—five months after the bill was enacted, only 35% of Americans said the bill was helping improve the economy or will do so in the future.

To be fair, this is the Democrats’ strategy. They’ve played ‘hide the ball’ with the bill text so as not to tip off the public as to what they’re putting in their bills. Then, they bring it to the floor and tout some poll numbers and scare their members into voting for it.

Luckily, due to Democrats’ stalled legislative agenda, we have bill text and a window into their plan. If we effectively communicate about this bill, we’ll see those poll numbers drop.

I’ve directed staff at the Republican Study Committee to pore over the bill’s pages and produce for you a summary of the worst parts of the bill. Please read and share these points on social media, newsletters, opinion-editorials, and whatever other format you use to get your message out.

1. Perpetuates labor shortage: Continues welfare benefits without work requirements for able-bodied adults without dependents at a time where there are 10.1 million job openings—more openings than there are people looking for work.

2. Commissions a climate police: Democrats stuffed $8 billion into the bill to commission a cabal of federally funded climate police called the Civilian Climate Corps (CCC) who will conduct progressive activism on taxpayers’ dime (pages 8, 21, and 926).

3. Pushes Green New Deal in our public schools: Requires funding for school construction be used largely on enrollment diversity and Green New Deal agenda items (page 55).

4. Pushes Green New Deal in our universities: Democrats include a $10 billion “environmental justice” higher education slush fund to indoctrinate college students and advance Green New Deal policies (page 1,935).

5. Forces faith-based child care providers out: The bill blocks the ability of many faith-based providers from participating in the childcare system and will lead to many of their closures (page 280).

6. Hurts small and in-home daycares: Requires pre-K staff to have a college degree. (page 303).

7. Includes new incentives for illegal immigration: Illegal immigrants will be eligible to take advantage of Democrats’ new ‘free’ college entitlement (page 92) as well be eligible for additional student aid (page 147) and the enhanced child tax credit (page 1,946).

8. Includes legislative hull for Biden’s vaccine mandate: Increases OSHA penalties on businesses that fail to implement the mandate up to $700,000 per violation and includes $2.6 billion in funding for the Department of Labor to increase enforcement of these penalties (page 168).

9. Gives unions near-total control: The bill includes insane prohibitions that would bind employers’ hands in union disputes and dangerously tilt the balance of power, subjecting employers to penalties that exempt union bosses and officials… among other things this bill would prevent employers from permanently replacing striking workers (page 175). It coerces businesses to meet union boss demands by increasing Fair Labor Standards Act penalties by an astronomical 900% (page 168).

10. Makes unions bigger and more powerful: The bill would subsidize union dues that would only serve to strengthen the influence of union bosses and not American workers (page 2323).

11. Pushes Democrats’ wasteful and confusing school lunch agenda: $643 million for, among other things, “procuring…culturally appropriate foods” (page 333).

12. Furthers radical abortion agenda: Does not include the Hyde amendment and would mandate taxpayers pay for abortions (page 198) & (page 336).

13. Drives up costs on Americans’ utility bills: Issues a punitive methane tax (page 367) and includes a tax on natural gas up to $1,500 per ton that could cost the American economy up to $9.1 billion and cost 90,000 Americans their jobs (page 368).

14. Includes dangerous & deadly green energy mandate: Effectively forces Americans to get 40% of their energy from wind, solar and other unreliable forms of energy within 8 years (page 392). Reliance on these energy sources has proven deadly.

15. Includes kickbacks for the Left’s green energy special interest network: $5 billion for “environmental and climate justice block grants” (page 377) and another $100 billion in green energy special interest subsidies, loans and other carve outs.

[XU_Lou]

15. Includes kickbacks for the Left’s green energy special interest network: $5 billion for “environmental and climate justice block grants” (page 377) and another $100 billion in green energy special interest subsidies, loans and other carve outs.

16. Gives wealthy Americans tax credits: $222 billion in “green energy” tax credits will be given to those who can afford expensive electric vehicles and other “green” innovative products (page 1832).

17. furthers Democrats’ social justice agenda: Includes “equity” initiatives throughout the bill and, in one instance, Democrats inserted “equity” language into a title which should have been focusing on the maintenance of the United States’ cyber security efforts (page 897).

18. Grants amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants: House Democrats have included in their reconciliation bill a plan to grant amnesty to around 8 million illegal immigrants at a cost of around $100 billion over ten years that would largely be spent on welfare and other entitlements (page 901). Trillions more would be spent long term on their Social Security and Medicare.

19. Opens border even wider: The bill would waive many grounds for immigration inadmissibility, including infection or lack of vaccination status during a Pandemic, failure to attend removal proceedings in previous immigration cases, and the previous renouncement of American citizenship. DHS may also waive previous convictions for human trafficking, narcotics violations, and illegal voting (Page 903).

20. Increases visa limit: At least 226,000 family-preference visas would be administered each year (page 905).

21. Grants fast-tracked green cards for those seeking middle-class careers in America: Language included in the bill exempts certain aliens from the annual green card statutory limits and has been described as a “hidden pipeline for U.S. employers to flood more cheap foreign graduates into millions of middle-class careers needed by American graduates” (page 910).

22. Includes pork for Nancy Pelosi: $200 million is earmarked for the Presidio Trust in congressional district (page 933).

23. Increases energy dependence on OPEC, Russia and China: The bill prohibits several mineral and energy withdrawals (page 979). It overturns provisions included in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that authorized energy production in the Arctic that will result in 130,000 Americans losing their jobs and $440 billion in lost federal revenue (page 983) and the mineral withdrawals it prohibits would, ironically, include minerals necessary for renewable energy sources (pages 934, 940, 943).

24. Exacerbates the chip shortage: The bill would mandate the conversion of the entire federal vehicle fleet from internal combustion engines to electric engines at a time when there is a global microchip shortage and crippled supply chains (page 1,043).

25. Democrats’ feckless China bill is included: Concepts from the insanely weak Endless Frontier Act included, including $11 billion in research funding that will likely result in American intellectual property going to China (page 1079 - 1081).

26. Chases green energy pipe dreams: $264 million to the EPA to conduct research with left-wing environmental justice groups on how to transition away from fossil fuels (page 1063).

27. Fixes “racist” roads and bridges: Adds a nearly $4 billion slush fund that would help left-wing grassroots organizations that, among other things, want to tear down and rebuild or otherwise alter infrastructure deemed “racist” (page 1183).

28. Punishes red states for failing to adopt Green New Deal provisions: Mandates “consequences” for conservative states that don’t meet the radical Left’s “green” climate standards while at the same time adding nearly $4 billion for “Community Climate Incentive Grants” for cooperating states (page 1179).

29. Includes new massive, bankrupting entitlement: The new paid leave entitlement would mandate workers get 12 weeks of paid leave and would cost $500 billion over ten years according to the CBO (page 1245). It would apply to those making up to half a million dollars a year (page 1254).

30. Advances a totalitarian and paternalistic view of the federal government: Includes grants for organizations to treat individuals suffering from “loneliness” and “social isolation.”

[XU_Lou]

31. Further detaches individuals from employment and more reliant on government handouts: The bill spends $835 billion on welfare through manipulating the tax code [not including the expansions of Obamacare subsidies] (page 1943).

32. Tax benefits for the top 1%: The bill will possibly lift the SALT deduction cap meaning many of the top 1% wealthiest Americans would pay less in taxes.

33. Tax credit for wealthy donors who give to woke universities: The bill creates a new tax program that gives tax credits worth 40% of cash contribution that are made to university research programs (page 2094).

34. Expands worst parts of Obamacare: Obamacare’s job-killing employer mandate will become more severe by adjusting the definition of “affordable coverage” to mean coverage that costs no more than 8.5 percent of income rather than current law’s 9.5 percent of income (page 2041).

35.Increases taxes on Americans at every income level: $2 trillion in tax hikes will fall on those making under $400,000 per year, contrary to what the White House says. Individuals at all income levels will be affected (Ways and Means GOP).

36.Lowers wages for working families: The corporate tax rate will increase by 5.5%, meaning American companies will face one of the highest tax burdens in the world. According to analysis, two-thirds of this tax hike will fall on lower- and middle-income taxpayers (page 2110).

37.Penalizes marriage: The bill would permanently double the EITC’s marriage penalty on childless worker benefits (page 2036).

38.Imposes crushing taxes on small business: Guts the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act small business deductions that reduced pass-through entity taxes to keep them comparable to taxes corporations (page 2235) as well as hammer small businesses that file as individual tax earners with the 39.6% rate (page 2221) and Obamacare’s 3.8% tax on net investment income.

39.Crushes family businesses and farms: The bill would impose a 25% capital gains rate (page2226) and makes alterations to the Death Tax including cutting the Death Tax exemption in half (page 2240).

40.Violates Americans’ financial privacy: $80 billion slush fund to hire an 87,000-IRS-agent army to carry out the Biden administration’s plan to review every account above a $600 balance or with more than $600 of transactions in a year. (page 2283).

41.Increases out of pocket costs for those who rely on prescription drugs: The bill repeals the Trump-era Rebate Rule which passes through rebates directly to consumers at the point of sale (page 2465).

42.Imports policies from countries with socialized medicine: The bill includes healthcare policies imported from systems in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the United Kingdom--all countries that have government-run healthcare systems (page 2349).


The bill also has other lesser-known provisions, including:

· $5 million per year for the Small Business Administration for an entrepreneurial program for formerly incarcerated individuals.

· $2.5 billion for the Department of Justice (DOJ) to award competitive grants or contracts to local governments, community-based organizations, and other groups to support “intervention strategies” to reduce community violence.


Conclusion: Each of these 42 bullets is enough to vote against the bill. Taken together— blowingly corrupt. We need to loudly oppose it.

It’s not an understatement to say this bill, if passed, will fundamentally change our country forever--Americans will wake up in a few years and wonder what happened to their freedom. We can’t let that happen.

[XU_Lou]

Part 4 - this is what our lunatic president said yesterday about the Democrats lunatic legislation designed to destroy America as we know (see 3 posts above for details):

“We will take, literally, millions of automobiles off the road. Off the road”

Lets Go Brandon!!!

[waggy]

9. Gives unions near-total control: The bill includes insane prohibitions that would bind employers’ hands in union disputes and dangerously tilt the balance of power, subjecting employers to penalties that exempt union bosses and officials… among other things this bill would prevent employers from permanently replacing striking workers (page 175). It coerces businesses to meet union boss demands by increasing Fair Labor Standards Act penalties by an astronomical 900% (page 168).

10. Makes unions bigger and more powerful: The bill would subsidize union dues that would only serve to strengthen the influence of union bosses and not American workers (page 2323).



And guess what, union leadership isn't fighting for the collective good. Nurses who don't want the vaccination, and there are many, are told by leadership their hands are tied.

[Masterofreality]

Hey Paul. You voted for the wrong guy and people now realize.

“ New polling from Gallup shows that Biden’s approval rating dropped from 56% in Q1 to 44.7% in Q3 which represents an 11.3% drop that has not been experienced by any president since World War II.”

[paulxu]

I voted for the right guy.


Oct. 19 marked the end of Biden's third quarter in office since his Jan. 20 inauguration. During the quarter, which began July 20, Biden's approval rating averaged 44.7%. All other elected presidents except Trump had higher third-quarter job approval ratings, with Trump averaging 36.9% at the same point in his presidency.

[Masterofreality]

I voted for the right guy.

Yes. EVERYTHING is going so swimmingly well. Hope you have heat this winter.

[Muskie in dayton]

And guess what, union leadership isn't fighting for the collective good. Nurses who don't want the vaccination, and there are many, are told by leadership their hands are tied.
Yep, and to add to our clown world, the ACLU is no longer concerned with civil liberties, and PETA hasn’t seemed to care about dog torture: https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/578086-bipartisan-legislators-demand-answers-from-fauci?amp

[Muskie in dayton]

I voted for the right guy.
Yes, brilliant. Biden’s approval is second lowest in history despite a media completely running cover for him, and second only to the guy that the media incessantly lied about to slander him.

Now do results.

[X-man]

Yes, brilliant. Biden’s approval is second lowest in history despite a media completely running cover for him, and second only to the guy that the media incessantly lied about to slander him.

Now do results.

Huh?

[paulxu]

What drives so much of our discourse, unfortunately.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-knew-radicalized-users-rcna3581

[Strange Brew]

Huh?

Haha, good one.

[Masterofreality]

What drives so much of our discourse, unfortunately.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-knew-radicalized-users-rcna3581

No. What “drives most of our discourse” is false narratives perpetuated by corporate media that create false impressions.
Then the ignoring of important stories that defy that narrative. Example?
The mainstream media just followed the preferred narrative that parents were “domestic terrorists” after meetings in Loudon County VA became raucous because parents actually stood up to the School Board and one father was arrested for his disruption. CNN gladly reported on that.
But it took the Daily Caller, an right leaning independent outlet to break the story of the man’s daughter being raped in a bathroom by a cross dressing guy. The Daily Caller, who people like Paul call fringe conspiracy theorist media, did fine investigative reporting and now the Superintendent and Board members are being called to account, the rapist has now been implicated in another rape and arrested.
Guess who hasn’t reported a single word of this Daily Caller revelation?
CNN.

Yeah. We have a problem. And NBC news is part of it.

[xubrew]

I think that what ultimately drives the most discourse is that discourse seems to be becoming the main objective. It's all about trolling the other side, or sticking it to the other side. The actual policies don't matter. It's a turf war and the goal is to gain control of the turf and/or to deny the other side any control at all.

The Right calls out Fake News, and in a lot of cases they're right, and it's something that everyone should call out, but a huge faction of The Right also believes in Q, and that the election was stolen, and a bunch of other nonsense that is so fake that it's basically as fictitious as Lord of the Rings. They hate Fake News, but not the Fake News that works in their favor.

The Left is quick to call out what can accurately be described as an Insurrection at the Capitol, and they should. Everyone should. But they don't seem to see any problem with the violence that erupts at their own political protests. This, right here, is one of the many microcosms of the discourse that exists in our country. The Right supports the police!! But...not on January 6th. Not when the police are in THEIR way. The Left wants to Defund the Police!!! (which is stupid beyond description) but..not on January 6th. They wanted the cops on that day!

The Right fears socialism, but I guess they like it if it actually gives THEM something and their people are in charge. The first COVID stimulus checks were mailed out and approved under the Trump Administration. When push came to shove, all COVID testing and vaccines were free to the vast majority of people. The Left says The Right wants to take away their healthcare, but in the time of a pandemic the healthcare was there.

This is one of my favorite observations. I don't know how valid it is now, but I'll share it. You know how you can tell whether a person is liberal or conservative?? By how tidy their house is. Liberals are slobs. Conservatives are neat-freaks. Yet liberals care about the environment, and clean air, and healthy food, and safe farming, and conservatives don't seem to care that the Earth is quickly starting to resemble an elevator that someone farted in. That always seemed kind of backwards to me. But, the environment, and the climate is an issue. Industrial farming is an issue. It's an issue that effects all of us, but yet because (and really ONLY because) The Right looks at it as a "liberal issue," they always push back on it even though it's in their best interest not to. To bend on that would mean losing the turf war!! Even if you don't believe that pollution and the lax restrictions on industrial farming is bad for the climate, you have to at least admit that pollution causes pollution! Why can't the neat-freaks with tidy houses tell the rest of the slobs in America to clean up their freakin' mess!!?? We can't even agree that cleaner air, and healthier better food is a good thing!!

When Trump won in 2016, The Left couldn't handle it. They basically didn't. They basically accused the Russians of hacking in to the voting machines to sway the election toward Trump almost because they needed a coping mechanism. They didn't want to admit that the real reason they lost was because how much people in America thought they sucked. The Right was appalled at the response, and understandably so. They correctly pointed out that The Right had never acted that way before after an election, and insinuated in a way that was believable (at the time) that they never would. They would accept the results and move on. Well...in 2020, THAT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! Now The Left is calling out The Right for inventing a narrative rather than accepting the results, and they should. But, again, it's the double standard of each side throwing a fit and inventing a narrative when they don't win an election, and calling out the other side for not accepting the results when they do win an election.

The Right calls out The Left for Cancel Culture, and they should. Yet, Colin Kaepernick got cancelled. No one on The Right was too upset about that. They don't want people cancelled...except for the ones they do want cancelled. The Left criticizes The Right for this...yet they themselves won't stop cancelling people for stupid shit that usually doesn't matter and that oftentimes happened a long time ago. I'm highly concerned about the day that someone from The Left realizes that Willie Nelson played Uncle Jesse in The Dukes of Hazzard and demands that he be banished from society. Both sides are all for freedom of speech!! Unless, of course, it's something they don't want to hear.

Here is some advice that won't be followed...

TAKE IT DOWN A NOTCH!!! Realize that if the person who won the election is someone you didn't vote for that you're not shut out of the government, or the system, and that he or she still represents you. You didn't "lose" the turf war. You don't have to leave. Understand that while it looks like The Left and The Right are separated by a hundred miles, the wall that's separating them really isn't THAT tall or THAT deep. If for no other reason than a lot of the things that you think suck about the other side also suck about your own side. We all have to live together. No one is going anywhere. So, figure out out! Let's all grab some beers, and put the game on, and watch it together, and just chill the fuck out a little bit...

[Masterofreality]

Fair assessment Brew, but..

I know of no one who believes in Q. Nobody. That is an invention of the left to counter Antifa, which is totally real.
I know of zero riots initiated by “Q” whatever that is other than some trolls joking on 4Chan. January 6 had zero to do with “Q” except in leftist conspiracist minds.
Yeah, there are some who believe the election was stolen…ON BOTH SIDES! But no where near the numbers on the right that you may think. Stacy Abrams still thinks she won Georgia and never conceded. Al Gore and Dems still think he won. This is not merely a right side contention. I still think we got jobbed vs Ohio State, but it makes no difference. If there were mistakes, you correct and move on.

As to Kapaernick. Some “cancelling”. A guy who was destined to be a backup quarterback got a $17 million contract from Nike.
Let’s see if Enes Kanter, who is truly making a stand, gets anything- even tepid supports from the NBA. And where is Mr Outspoken Lebron James opining on this? (Crickets)

[paulxu]

You missed their convention in Las Vegas?

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-attending-qanon-convention-las-vegas-nevada-1641562

(perhaps the "left" invented the convention...always possible I suppose)

[X-man]

You missed their convention in Las Vegas?

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-attending-qanon-convention-las-vegas-nevada-1641562

(perhaps the "left" invented the convention...always possible I suppose)
When you see the list of "facts" in MOR's post above, it is yet more evidence that he is incapable of comprehending the reality of the election, the Trump wing of the Republican Party, and the dangers to democracy that exist because of them. You will never get through to him.

[Masterofreality]

You missed their convention in Las Vegas?

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-attending-qanon-convention-las-vegas-nevada-1641562

(perhaps the "left" invented the convention...always possible I suppose)


When you see the list of "facts" in MOR's post above, it is yet more evidence that he is incapable of comprehending the reality of the election, the Trump wing of the Republican Party, and the dangers to democracy that exist because of them. You will never get through to him.

Interesting that the term QAnon only appears in corporate media descriptions of the event, not the official title or connected materials.
The real event name is : For God & Country: Patriot Double Down.

The article calls it “a QAnon event” in the writer’s words. The organizer is Ron Watkins, accused of at one time being behind the 'Q' account that sparked the conspiracy movement—a claim he has denied. Wow! He allegedly called himself “QAnon John” which means zero. I’ll call myself “Satan MOR” just for effect. Doesn’t make me Satan though. Some of you guys don’t think I’m a Master of Reality anyway, so what’s in a name?

Show me the proof, other than this author’s empty accusations and name calling that an actual QAnon exists other than the authors’ paragraph that states it is a described “online conspiracy movement.” The corporate press is great at slapping “brands” on things. Kinda like calling parents at school board meetings “Domestic Terrorists”, Right? Create that narrative tho.

Opposed to Biden that called Antifa “just an idea” while it has militant anarchists carrying a logo, dressing in black and wearing helmets attacking federal buildings, police and rioting in numerous cities as anarchists, QAnon is truly “an idea” that lives rent free in leftists and socialists heads.

Let me know next time when an alleged helmeted and black clad “QAnon” guy assaults and kills police and federal agents. Then I’ll believe you.

[paulxu]

I don't know if he was helmeted, but he probably didn't need it...he killed his own kids. He was "enlightened" though...so there is that.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027133867/children-dead-father-claims-qanon-conspiracy-led-him-to-kill

[X-man]

Interesting that the term QAnon only appears in corporate media descriptions of the event, not the official title or connected materials.
The real event name is : For God & Country: Patriot Double Down.

The article calls it “a QAnon event” in the writer’s words. The organizer is Ron Watkins, accused of at one time being behind the 'Q' account that sparked the conspiracy movement—a claim he has denied. Wow! He allegedly called himself “QAnon John” which means zero. I’ll call myself “Satan MOR” just for effect. Doesn’t make me Satan though. Some of you guys don’t think I’m a Master of Reality anyway, so what’s in a name?

Show me the proof, other than this author’s empty accusations and name calling that an actual QAnon exists other than the authors’ paragraph that states it is a described “online conspiracy movement.” The corporate press is great at slapping “brands” on things. Kinda like calling parents at school board meetings “Domestic Terrorists”, Right? Create that narrative tho.

Opposed to Biden that called Antifa “just an idea” while it has militant anarchists carrying a logo, dressing in black and wearing helmets attacking federal buildings, police and rioting in numerous cities as anarchists, QAnon is truly “an idea” that lives rent free in leftists and socialists heads.

Let me know next time when an alleged helmeted and black clad “QAnon” guy assaults and kills police and federal agents. Then I’ll believe you.

Glad to see that you are positing that all those people with "Q" regalia are totally delusional.

[Masterofreality]

Glad to see that you are positing that all those people with "Q" regalia are totally delusional.

Show me where anyone was inappropriate at a “Conservative Convention” smarty. If the writer was fair without created agenda that is how she would have classified it.
Did they go out and hurl Molotov cocktails at Federal Agents?
Did they try to burn down Federal Buildings?
Did they burn a city to the ground over a felony criminal justly being shot while he had a weapon like happened in Kenosha?
Did they riot in numerous cities causing millions in damage to minority and other businesses?
Did they March down streets and harass diners in outdoor restaurants while creating havoc?

If you cannot answer YES then the “Q idea” is living in your head rent free with no reality.
And you cannot.
But with Antifa and their painted symbols on city walls you sure can.
Enjoy your Intellectual Dishonesty.

[Masterofreality]

I don't know if he was helmeted, but he probably didn't need it...he killed his own kids. He was "enlightened" though...so there is that.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027133867/children-dead-father-claims-qanon-conspiracy-led-him-to-kill

That guy was insane and needed help whatever justification he came up with for the voices in his head. I thought that you lefty’s were all for counseling and not incarceration?
That is digging awfully deep Paul and has zero connection to the Politics thread.
Know what does?
“ Michael Reinoehl—a self-identified Antifa supporter—shot and killed Aaron “Jay” Danielson, a member of the far-right group Patriot Prayer in Portland Oregon in cold blood.Reinoehl was killed by law enforcement officers five days later.”
Point counterpoint Paul.

[XU_Lou]

True.

I don't side with much of what he says from a policy perspective (i think ubi is batshit,) but in regards to party and failed politics, I agree with a lot of what Yang says. Hoping he gets a bit more attention in this next cycle just for a bit of a fresh perspective.

Lets review what Vile thinks is so great about Yang - this, coming from the guy who thinks, or at least pretends that he's a Republican:

What does Andrew Yang believe?

• Paying $1000 per month to everyone above the age of 18.
• Supports Medicare for all.
• His health plan would cover illegal aliens.
• Supports a pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens.
• Supports several months of broad paid leave
• Cancel some student debt
• End new oil and gas leases on federal land and end offshore drilling
• Tax carbon emissions
• Urge Americans to eat less meat as a way to combat climate change
• No limits of any type for abortions
• Supports an increase in the capital gains tax rate
• Would create a value-added tax

Either you didn’t do your research on Yang and you're just shooting your mouth off once again, or you’re really a liberal, or you’re a liar. Either one is plausible....

[paulxu]

That guy was insane and needed help whatever justification he came up with for the voices in his head. I thought that you lefty’s were all for counseling and not incarceration?
That is digging awfully deep Paul and has zero connection to the Politics thread.
Know what does?
“ Michael Reinoehl—a self-identified Antifa supporter—shot and killed Aaron “Jay” Danielson, a member of the far-right group Patriot Prayer in Portland Oregon in cold blood.Reinoehl was killed by law enforcement officers five days later.”
Point counterpoint Paul.

We were talking about Q and the idiots who followed that stuff...including one who killed his kids.

As for the overblown Antifa stuff, sure they'll be a crazy in every bunch. But note this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/?sh=69c6471c4138
I feel sure Barr would have found some Antifas in the bunch for Trump if he could have.

As to a nut job here or there, on the left or right, we'll probably always be with them. And some are pure cop killers:


was associated with the right-wing Boogaloo movement, and that Carrillo chose the timing of his attacks to "take advantage of a time when this nation was mourning the killing of George Floyd."


Last week, Carrillo was charged with murder after he ambushed Santa Cruz deputies and threw pipe bombs at police on June 6, killing Sgt. Damon Gutzwiller and wounding four other officers.

On Tuesday, the FBI announced Tuesday that Carrillo has also been federally charged with the murder of federal security officer Pat Underwood, who was killed in a drive-by shooting on May 29 in Oakland.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/16/accused-killer-of-california-cops-was-associated-with-right-wing-boogaloo-movement/?sh=3c30ce0259bd

[Masterofreality]

We were talking about Q and the idiots who followed that stuff...including one who killed his kids.

As for the overblown Antifa stuff, sure they'll be a crazy in every bunch. But note this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/?sh=69c6471c4138
I feel sure Barr would have found some Antifas in the bunch for Trump if he could have.

As to a nut job here or there, on the left or right, we'll probably always be with them. And some are pure cop killers:





https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/16/accused-killer-of-california-cops-was-associated-with-right-wing-boogaloo-movement/?sh=3c30ce0259bd

It’s laugh out loud hilarious how you lefties, as well as Cretins from all directions-especially Supposed Journalists- have been trolled by these 4Chan hipsters.
Even the supposed premise of “QAnon” is ludicrous and so far fetched that no rational human believes it can be true. The QAnon conspiracy theory claims that a global cabal of satanic, cannibalistic pedophiles who operate a massive child sex trafficking ring would be exposed eventually. That is one hell of a creative troll and some guy at a keyboard in a basement is laughing his ass off that lefties took this thing serious. And, yeah. There are Cretins on the right too. But there are idiots all over at all times that are looking for stupidity to buy into.
But, nah. There isn’t some QAnon militia out there in the weeds looking to take your house away from you. But that prospect sure is living free in your head.
Now Antifa? Hell, they’d just as soon burn your house down like they did to numerous businesses in numerous cities.
That’s what’s real.

And, yeah Paul. We were talking about QAnon. Not Boogaloo.

[paulxu]

Now Antifa? Hell, they’d just as soon burn your house down like they did to numerous businesses in numerous cities.
That’s what’s real.

Yet in the cases brought by the government against those people who burned and looted, there is no evidence of Antifa...but there is of far right groups.
Perhaps Antifa is living in your head?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/?sh=69c6471c4138

[Masterofreality]

Yet in the cases brought by the government against those people who burned and looted, there is no evidence of Antifa...but there is of far right groups.
Perhaps Antifa is living in your head?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/?sh=69c6471c4138

Ask the People of Portland Oregon. Get your head out of the sand.

[GoMuskies]

Were you guys all aware that birds aren't real?

https://birdsarentreal.com/

[Strange Brew]

Were you guys all aware that birds aren't real?

https://birdsarentreal.com/

I will resist the urge to click on that. :)

[Xville]

Lets review what Vile thinks is so great about Yang - this, coming from the guy who thinks, or at least pretends that he's a Republican:

What does Andrew Yang believe?

• Paying $1000 per month to everyone above the age of 18.
• Supports Medicare for all.
• His health plan would cover illegal aliens.
• Supports a pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens.
• Supports several months of broad paid leave
• Cancel some student debt
• End new oil and gas leases on federal land and end offshore drilling
• Tax carbon emissions
• Urge Americans to eat less meat as a way to combat climate change
• No limits of any type for abortions
• Supports an increase in the capital gains tax rate
• Would create a value-added tax

Either you didn’t do your research on Yang and you're just shooting your mouth off once again, or you’re really a liberal, or you’re a liar. Either one is plausible....

Or you are a fucking moron who just glosses over the fact that I said I don’t side with much of what he says from a policy perspective. Lying lou who apparently wants to get on his knees and suck my dick due to his fatal attraction obsession with me strikes again.

Btw, your obsession with one side of the aisle or the other, and those polarized beliefs is your downfall and that is the part of yang’s stance I agree with. However, unless you are a complete idiot, you already knew that based on the context from which I posted, and you just decided to be a keyboard warrior prick because you can’t help yourself.

You are a representation of all that is wrong with our political system and our world right now—-great work