Politics Thread

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not sure where you're going with this question? Why do you think what my thoughts are important to you?

Why didn't you answer the question? Seems like a pretty easy one to answer.

[bjf123]

Boobie - That's just a bunch of nonsense from triggered, angry libs. Again, you can't articulate out of your own mind what Trump has done to make your life so miserable. Again, don't tell me about his personality, don't tell me about his tweets - what policies/laws has he enacted that have made you into an angry old man?

I tended to get the same reaction from friends of mine on the Left. They never really talked about Trump’s policies they didn’t like. Just that they didn’t like what he said or tweeted. Guess what? I didn’t care for a lot of his comments and tweets, either! I still liked his policies.

I have a cousin who’s VERY liberal, having spent most of her working career in academia. She could never understand how I could support Trump because of all the things he said. His policies were irrelevant to her. All that mattered was that he said mean things (and somehow beat Queen Hillary).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XU_Lou]

Why didn't you answer the question? Seems like a pretty easy one to answer.

No, I won't be getting one. Already had the big C....

[Xville]

No, I won't be getting one. Already had the big C....

And you can get it again but ok. Sorry but anyone who doesnt vaccinate is a fucking moron

[XU_Lou]

And you can get it again but ok. Sorry but anyone who doesnt vaccinate is a fucking moron

From the CDC: "Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare​.​"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html

And, if you do some research, many of the supposed reinfections have been debunked!

I'll take my chances - who the hell are you to judge what I do or don't do with my body?

[Xville]

From the CDC: "Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare​.​"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html

And, if you do some research, many of the supposed reinfections have been debunked!

I'll take my chances - who the hell are you to judge what I do or don't do with my body?

I judge stupid and stubborn people. Who gives a ahit if it's rare?? When it comes to anti vaxxers like yourself, I'll judge you because it affects the rest of the population.

[XU_Lou]

I judge stupid and stubborn people. Who gives a ahit if it's rare?? When it comes to anti vaxxers like yourself, I'll judge you because it affects the rest of the population.

Mind you're own fucking business, and quit being such a pussy!

[Xville]

Mind you're own fucking business, and quit being such a pussy!

It's your, different than you're a fucking idiot. Are you the pussy since you are afraid of a shot? Or just an idiot? Probably both.

[XU_Lou]

Who gives a ahit if it's rare??

I guess that makes you anti-science, right?

Get a grip, man! We're on pace to hit herd immunity by mid-January (see post 3510 for explanation: http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?34211-Covid-19/page351), well before the vaccine will have made any significant impact. I've seen polls say that roughly 50% of population will get a vaccine. By the time vaccines are available to me - next spring or summer - this pandemic will effectively be over. If the chances of reinfection are already rare (or possibly non-existent), and we will have reached herd immunity, and a large portion of the population is going to get a vaccine, then my chances of becoming reinfected are next to nil, if not nil! So don't worry, you won't get the Covid from me....

[D-West & PO-Z]

I judge stupid and stubborn people. Who gives a ahit if it's rare?? When it comes to anti vaxxers like yourself, I'll judge you because it affects the rest of the population.

+100

[Xville]

I guess that makes you anti-science, right?

Get a grip, man! We're on pace to hit herd immunity by mid-January (see post 3510 for explanation: http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?34211-Covid-19/page351), well before the vaccine will have made any significant impact. I've seen polls say that roughly 50% of population will get a vaccine. By the time vaccines are available to me - next spring or summer - this pandemic will effectively be over. If the chances of reinfection are already rare (or possibly non-existent), and we will have reached herd immunity, and a large portion of the population is going to get a vaccine, then my chances of becoming reinfected are next to nil, if not nil! So don't worry, you won't get the Covid from me....

Just beyond dumb

[XU_Lou]

Just beyond dumb

Be good little citizen and do as your told....

[D-West & PO-Z]

I guess that makes you anti-science, right?

Get a grip, man! We're on pace to hit herd immunity by mid-January (see post 3510 for explanation: http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?34211-Covid-19/page351), well before the vaccine will have made any significant impact. I've seen polls say that roughly 50% of population will get a vaccine. By the time vaccines are available to me - next spring or summer - this pandemic will effectively be over. If the chances of reinfection are already rare (or possibly non-existent), and we will have reached herd immunity, and a large portion of the population is going to get a vaccine, then my chances of becoming reinfected are next to nil, if not nil! So don't worry, you won't get the Covid from me....

Seems odd to tout the greatness of Trump in regards to him getting a vaccine done that you won't even take.

Also I have had a patient who has had in twice 8 months apart.

Also where in the world have you seen we will be at herd immunity next month?

[XU_Lou]

Seems odd to tout the greatness of Trump in regards to him getting a vaccine done that you won't even take.

Also I have had a patient who has had in twice 8 months apart.

Also where in the world have you seen we will be at herd immunity next month?

Did you read the link?

[xuwillie]

The vaccine should be for the 1% at Risk. Why on earth would I take a vaccine? Take care of the ones at risk, trump and all presidents should be applauded and for that.

[Xville]

Be good little citizen and do as your told....

You're

[Xville]

The vaccine should be for the 1% at Risk. Why on earth would I take a vaccine? Take care of the ones at risk, trump and all presidents should be applauded and for that.

I feel like I'm living in idiocracy. It has electrolytes!

[xuwillie]

Just so I’m on the same page. You think everyone should get this vaccine? Does that include children?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I feel like I'm living in idiocracy. It has electrolytes!

Man, I'm with you. It's like the fucking twilight zone!

[D-West & PO-Z]

The vaccine should be for the 1% at Risk. Why on earth would I take a vaccine? Take care of the ones at risk, trump and all presidents should be applauded and for that.

You understand the following right?:

1. Some of the most at risk can't get the vaccine (like those with immunodeficiencies) and will rely on those around them having them.
2. That even those without risk factors can have end up with serious complications if they get COVID.

[paulxu]

Those are not policy issues Paul.
Everything you point out was rejected by the voters in 2016 as irrelevant because Billary was one of the most corrupt politicians ever. Remember?

And when the voters figured him out as one of the worst presidents ever, he was rejected by the voters as irrelevant in 2020. Remember

Just to be clear, I have major disagreements with his policies, and think they have been incredibly damaging to our country, and the world.
As best as I can tell, he was determined to overturn everything that Obama touched out of some sort of desire he was the greatest.

He attacked, and the party still is, the ACA that brought health care to 20 million Americans. Where was the great replacement plan promised since 2010?
He took us out of the Paris accord when climate change is a challenge for the future. You don't like it, stay and make it better. Don't run away like a child.
He took us out of the Iran deal on some bullshit pretense, and they are enriching uranium as a result, making the world a far more dangerous place.
He sucked up to dictators and wished people would treat him like they force their people to treat them. Far from statesmanship.
He separated families at the boarder, and they don't even know where the children can go to reunite with their parents.
He promised Mexico would pay for the wall. Really?
He instructed executive branch people to ignore valid subpoenas from Congress who has the power to oversee the Executive.
He disrespects our military, calling them suckers and losers. And wanted "my generals" to lick his boots until even they had enough.

I could go on and on. He is one of the world's greatest con man, and he's convinced 77% of Republicans that the election was stolen, despite his own people saying it was the most secure ever.

Style doesn't count, but substance does. And he has no substance. He whines for millions on twitter...and you buy into it just like the Trump University suckers.

[Muskie in dayton]

And you can get it again but ok. Sorry but anyone who doesnt vaccinate is a fucking moron
First, getting it again is extremely rare, and most cases were due to multiple positive tests, which is different than actually having CV19 twice. In fact if people were commonly getting it twice, it means there is no lasting immunity, which means a vaccine would be worthless.

As to the vaccine, it is not without risk. This is the first ever vaccine based on the new mRNA technology, and it was developed in 10 months, compared to the typical ~5 years. The clinical trials were not flawless, and now it's going to be shuttled around the country with uncertainty in handling and storage protocol. On the disease side of the equation, we're not dealing with small pox or ebola. This is a disease with a 0.2% IFR, and for those healthy and young/middle aged, it's under 0.01%.

Based on that, each person, in consultation with their doctor, has to make a risk management decision for themselves about if they should take the vaccine now, later, or ever. If someone is young and healthy, there may be less risk in getting CV19, then in taking the vaccine. For those who are elderly and/or have comorbidities, they may feel the small risk of the vaccine is their best choice. Some people may be unable to take whether they want it or not, for various reasons.

People aren't "fucking morons" if they feel it best to not take the vaccine.

[D-West & PO-Z]

First, getting it again is extremely rare, and most cases were due to multiple positive tests, which is different than actually having CV19 twice. In fact if people were commonly getting it twice, it means there is no lasting immunity, which means a vaccine would be worthless.

As to the vaccine, it is not without risk. This is the first ever vaccine based on the new mRNA technology, and it was developed in 10 months, compared to the typical ~5 years. The clinical trials were not flawless, and now it's going to be shuttled around the country with uncertainty in handling and storage protocol. On the disease side of the equation, we're not dealing with small pox or ebola. This is a disease with a 0.2% IFR, and for those healthy and young/middle aged, it's under 0.01%.

Based on that, each person, in consultation with their doctor, has to make a risk management decision for themselves about if they should take the vaccine now, later, or ever. If someone is young and healthy, there may be less risk in getting CV19, then in taking the vaccine. For those who are elderly and/or have comorbidities, they may feel the small risk of the vaccine is their best choice. Some people may be unable to take whether they want it or not, for various reasons.

People aren't "fucking morons" if they feel it best to not take the vaccine.

There were NO corners cut when developing this vaccine. What made this possible this quickly was red tape unrelated to safety being lifted and unprecedented money dumped into the research and the leading experts all over the world focused on making this vaccine. The testing in terms of the amount of people is on par with other vaccines. And nearly all side effects from vaccines happen in the first 6 weeks which the studies haven’t shown anything major in.

It definitely had a stupid fucking name picked “operation warp speed”. Not sure who chose that but very poor choice.

It’s also funny to me that a lot of the same people who have dismissed any potential unknown long term side effects of getting COVID are the ones saying they would never get the vaccine for the same reason. The risk of significant adverse reaction from a covid vaccine is minuscule compared to risks associated with actually getting Covid.

[Xville]

First, getting it again is extremely rare, and most cases were due to multiple positive tests, which is different than actually having CV19 twice. In fact if people were commonly getting it twice, it means there is no lasting immunity, which means a vaccine would be worthless.

As to the vaccine, it is not without risk. This is the first ever vaccine based on the new mRNA technology, and it was developed in 10 months, compared to the typical ~5 years. The clinical trials were not flawless, and now it's going to be shuttled around the country with uncertainty in handling and storage protocol. On the disease side of the equation, we're not dealing with small pox or ebola. This is a disease with a 0.2% IFR, and for those healthy and young/middle aged, it's under 0.01%.

Based on that, each person, in consultation with their doctor, has to make a risk management decision for themselves about if they should take the vaccine now, later, or ever. If someone is young and healthy, there may be less risk in getting CV19, then in taking the vaccine. For those who are elderly and/or have comorbidities, they may feel the small risk of the vaccine is their best choice. Some people may be unable to take whether they want it or not, for various reasons.

People aren't "fucking morons" if they feel it best to not take the vaccine.

Seriously twilight zone. Yes they are fucking morons if they "feel" it is best to not take the vaccine. The only ones who shouldn't are the ones that are told not to by their medical professionals.

If you "feel it best" not to just well because, with no medical intervention, you are putting your fellow citizens unnecessarily at risk, like my children, who wont be able to get the vaccine at this time. That's just being a selfish douchebag fucktard.

Shockingly, the same person who has made a big deal about wearing a fucking mask and trying to prove how it isnt efficient, has had covid and isnt going to get vaccinated because he basically doesnt feel like it. You and your buddy lou are on the wrong side of this...good work.

[Muskie in dayton]

Seriously twilight zone. Yes they are fucking morons if they "feel" it is best to not take the vaccine. The only ones who shouldn't are the ones that are told not to by their medical professionals.

If you "feel it best" not to just well because, with no medical intervention, you are putting your fellow citizens unnecessarily at risk, like my children, who wont be able to get the vaccine at this time. That's just being a selfish douchebag fucktard.

Shockingly, the same person who has made a big deal about wearing a fucking mask and trying to prove how it isnt efficient, has had covid and isnt going to get vaccinated because he basically doesnt feel like it. You and your buddy lou are on the wrong side of this...good work.
Man, you're a nasty one. You need to take a step back and check what you say to people.

Also I never said I won't take the vaccine. I will do so in time, after all those who need it more than I have taken it. But I do respect others' beliefs and right to make their own decision about it.

Regarding Lou, you do realize that if he had CV19, it's the same as if he had the vaccine, right? Either way his body was induced into an immune response that will prevent him from getting it again as long as that immune response lasts. There's no reason for him to get the vaccine at this time.

[Muskie in dayton]

There were NO corners cut when developing this vaccine. What made this possible this quickly was red tape unrelated to safety being lifted and unprecedented money dumped into the research and the leading experts all over the world focused on making this vaccine. The testing in terms of the amount of people is on par with other vaccines. And nearly all side effects from vaccines happen in the first 6 weeks which the studies haven’t shown anything major in.

It definitely had a stupid fucking name picked “operation warp speed”. Not sure who chose that but very poor choice.

It’s also funny to me that a lot of the same people who have dismissed any potential unknown long term side effects of getting COVID are the ones saying they would never get the vaccine for the same reason. The risk of significant adverse reaction from a covid vaccine is minuscule compared to risks associated with actually getting Covid.
I recognize and appreciate the rigor of the safety checks put into this vaccine, but do realize sometimes that "red tape" is for good reason, and I'm not a red tape person! I'm very hopeful it's safe. If so, Operation Warp Speed will have be as amazing as another Manhattan Project.

Of note, I like the name. Now if it was "Operation Ludacris Speed", that would have been bad!

[waggy]

No I'm not getting this flu-shot either.

[waggy]

Just curious how some on this board would reply to this Pastor's opinion. I haven't done a ton of research on his background or previous work, just know he's also an author. With that said, I'm sure he's been targeted, discredited, and diminished in right wing circles. As previously mentioned in my posts, I think the republican party abandoned quite a few of us.

The post:
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2020/11/17/you-raised-me-to-be-a-good-person-then-you-voted-for-trump/


Never even mentions God. Hmmm.

[STL_XUfan]

No I'm not getting this flu-shot either.

We got a real bad ass over here.

[waggy]

We got a real bad ass over here.

I've never had a flu shot. And haven't had the flu in at least 25 years.

[xuwillie]

No one knows the long term effects of the vaccine. You’d be foolish get the vaccine right now if you aren’t in the high risk category.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No one knows the long term effects of the vaccine. You’d be foolish get the vaccine right now if you aren’t in the high risk category.

Like what? Vaccines dont have some out of nowhere long term side effects, that's COVID, you must be getting them confused. And adverse effects typically happen within the first 6 weeks.

[xuwillie]

We shall see. There are long term effects in a lot of vaccines. Why we don’t give our kids half o the ones the doctors suggest. Anyways, just finished skiing In steamboat with two of my liberal friends and neither have zero desire to get the vaccine. It’s not a political.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We shall see. There are long term effects in a lot of vaccines. Why we don’t give our kids half o the ones the doctors suggest. Anyways, just finished skiing In steamboat with two of my liberal friends and neither have zero desire to get the vaccine. It’s not a political.

I don't think its political (sometimes maybe) just ignorance about vaccines and anti-vaxx propaganda which has taken this country by storm.

Talk about follow the money.....the leaders of the anti-vaxx movement are raking it in peddling false information.

[Xville]

We shall see. There are long term effects in a lot of vaccines. Why we don’t give our kids half o the ones the doctors suggest. Anyways, just finished skiing In steamboat with two of my liberal friends and neither have zero desire to get the vaccine. It’s not a political.

I'm almost afraid to ask...what vaccines and what supposed long term effects?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm almost afraid to ask...what vaccines and what supposed long term effects?

(Please don't say autism, please don't say autism, please don't say autism)

[Xville]

(Please don't say autism, please don't say autism, please don't say autism)

Lol that's what I'm thinking.

[xuwillie]

For one look at the hpv long term side effects. No way would i ever give my daughter that.

[Xville]

For one look at the hpv long term side effects. No way would i ever give my daughter that.

Uh such as what? Pretty sure there are none that have been found from a reputable source. I mean yeah I'd rather my daughter have a higher chance of getting cancer too. Anti vaxxers astound me.

[xuwillie]

You’re a Moron. My wife is a doctor and decides not to give several.

[XU_Lou]

If you "feel it best" not to just well because, with no medical intervention, you are putting your fellow citizens unnecessarily at risk, like my children, who wont be able to get the vaccine at this time. That's just being a selfish douchebag fucktard.

Shockingly, the same person who has made a big deal about wearing a fucking mask and trying to prove how it isnt efficient, has had covid and isnt going to get vaccinated because he basically doesnt feel like it. You and your buddy lou are on the wrong side of this...good work.


Seems odd to tout the greatness of Trump in regards to him getting a vaccine done that you won't even take.

This is the significant difference between Conservatives and Democrats. Conservatives actually have freedom of thought. We don't all think alike. We question authority. We debate each other. We even have disagreements amongst ourselves. We use critical thinking skills and analyze data to determine if it makes sense or not.

Democrats, on the other hand, have completely abandoned critical thinking, reason and common sense. The Covid pandemic has placed a spotlight on this.

Ironically, it was the Democrats who pooh-poohed Trump during the early stages of the pandemic (see my timeline in the Covid thread). At some point they realized that they could use the pandemic as a cudgel against Trump, and from there the Pandemic became a Scamdemic. From that point there was no questioning or deviation whatsoever from anything that Fauci said, or any other governmental authority - whether with it was with regards to therapeutics, testing methods, reporting, case counts, death counts, masks, or vaccines. Whatever the authorities say it is, well then by-god that is 100% fact and there's no debate about it. If a doctor, medical group or study contradicts Fauci or Democrat authorities in anyway, it's immediately dismissed as garbage. There will be no debate. Even social media will shut you down if you go against the orthodoxy.

Note that my critics have never refuted the data (much of it sourced from the CDC) that I have presented that have formed my conclusions and opinions, but only demand that I "shut up and obey". Pretty curious....

This might be news to some of you, but questioning data and conclusions is part of the scientific method.

[Muskie in dayton]

Uh such as what? Pretty sure there are none that have been found from a reputable source. I mean yeah I'd rather my daughter have a higher chance of getting cancer too. Anti vaxxers astound me.
My sister is a nurse, pro-vaccination and a brazen Democrat. She said she will not take the CV-19 vaccine, and will resign from nursing if forced to. I’m not trying to influence- she hasn’t influenced me - but it is a data point.

[kmcrawfo]

My sister is a nurse, pro-vaccination and a brazen Democrat. She said she will not take the CV-19 vaccine, and will resign from nursing if forced to. I’m not trying to influence- she hasn’t influenced me - but it is a data point.

I'm getting the vaccine at 9am on Thursday. First appointment of the day at my regional hospital. I would have gotten it sooner if I could. The data and structure of the studies regarding safety and efficacy is strong. I would encourage anyone who can get the vaccine to do so, without hesitation.

[Xville]

This is the significant difference between Conservatives and Democrats. Conservatives actually have freedom of thought. We don't all think alike. We question authority. We debate each other. We even have disagreements amongst ourselves. We use critical thinking skills and analyze data to determine if it makes sense or not.

Democrats, on the other hand, have completely abandoned critical thinking, reason and common sense. The Covid pandemic has placed a spotlight on this.

Ironically, it was the Democrats who pooh-poohed Trump during the early stages of the pandemic (see my timeline in the Covid thread). At some point they realized that they could use the pandemic as a cudgel against Trump, and from there the Pandemic became a Scamdemic. From that point there was no questioning or deviation whatsoever from anything that Fauci said, or any other governmental authority - whether with it was with regards to therapeutics, testing methods, reporting, case counts, death counts, masks, or vaccines. Whatever the authorities say it is, well then by-god that is 100% fact and there's no debate about it. If a doctor, medical group or study contradicts Fauci or Democrat authorities in anyway, it's immediately dismissed as garbage. There will be no debate. Even social media will shut you down if you go against the orthodoxy.

Note that my critics have never refuted the data (much of it sourced from the CDC) that I have presented that have formed my conclusions and opinions, but only demand that I "shut up and obey". Pretty curious....

This might be news to some of you, but questioning data and conclusions is part of the scientific method.

Lol such a fool. Just because I think you're an idiot, doesnt mean I'm a democrat, and regardless, grouping people into silos based on political affiliation is really effed up.

[Xville]

You’re a Moron. My wife is a doctor and decides not to give several.

Sure she does. What are those long term side effects again? Lol

[Xville]

My sister is a nurse, pro-vaccination and a brazen Democrat. She said she will not take the CV-19 vaccine, and will resign from nursing if forced to. I’m not trying to influence- she hasn’t influenced me - but it is a data point.

Shes a democrat? Um, ok..good to know. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

[xavierj]

I am not anti vaccine but I am a little concerned to give it to my kids who are not fully developed yet. We don’t know enough about these yet to see if they are safe long term for kids still developing. What is in the vaccines and how will effect hormones, fertility, and such? Maybe be completely safe but we really have no idea long term. Have they tested any adolescents and teenagers? I would like to see some long term data before I have my kids get it.

[Xville]

I am not anti vaccine but I am a little concerned to give it to my kids who are not fully developed yet. We don’t know enough about these yet to see if they are safe long term for kids still developing. What is in the vaccines and how will effect hormones, fertility, and such? Maybe be completely safe but we really have no idea long term. Have they tested any adolescents and teenagers? I would like to see some long term data before I have my kids get it.

Are you referring to the covid vaccine? If so, my understanding is that those under 18 wont be getting it for right now.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm getting the vaccine at 9am on Thursday. First appointment of the day at my regional hospital. I would have gotten it sooner if I could. The data and structure of the studies regarding safety and efficacy is strong. I would encourage anyone who can get the vaccine to do so, without hesitation.

+100

[D-West & PO-Z]

I am not anti vaccine but I am a little concerned to give it to my kids who are not fully developed yet. We don’t know enough about these yet to see if they are safe long term for kids still developing. What is in the vaccines and how will effect hormones, fertility, and such? Maybe be completely safe but we really have no idea long term. Have they tested any adolescents and teenagers? I would like to see some long term data before I have my kids get it.

Kids aren’t getting the covid vaccine at this time.

Also please don’t fall for any of the anti-vaxx propaganda out there that is trying to make some sort of link or claims that the trials showed some concerns or link to infertility. That is completely bogus and made up.

I am also always curious what long term side effects people are expecting to show up? The trials have been going on since March is my understanding. And I am not a vaccine expert but my understanding is any adverse effects that happen with vaccines usually happen within the first 6 weeks of administering it. I’m not aware of other vaccines that have long term side effects that pop up years later. Which ones and what are the side effects?

[xuwillie]

Did anyone read the USA Today article that said only 1/3 out of 13,000 nurses are willing to get the vaccine? Old man, not sure how to copy and paste! This is not about anti-vaxers or even political as most of our liberal friends are the ones usually against vaccines in general

[D-West & PO-Z]

Did anyone read the USA Today article that said only 1/3 out of 13,000 nurses are willing to get the vaccine? Old man, not sure how to copy and paste! This is not about anti-vaxers or even political as most of our liberal friends are the ones usually against vaccines in general

Yeah I think it is mostly about ignorance regarding vaccines and the process this one went through.

The government and these companies developing the vaccine have done a horrific job at getting the word out and educating the public about the vaccine and its safety and why/how it was able to get to market so much quicker than other vaccines. I have been saying to co-workers and family members for months that I can't understand why there isnt all sorts of marketing about the vaccine and its process and safety. Maybe I guess because they didn't know exactly when it would be ready. Maybe we will see that now and it will help since the majority of the population wont be able to get it for a while still.

[Xville]

Did anyone read the USA Today article that said only 1/3 out of 13,000 nurses are willing to get the vaccine? Old man, not sure how to copy and paste! This is not about anti-vaxers or even political as most of our liberal friends are the ones usually against vaccines in general

You left out the small detail that it was from a survey in October, when little was known about the trials. Keep pushing that odd agenda though!

[bobbiemcgee]

My wife is a doctor and decides not to give several.

Maybe you should change doctors.

[xuwillie]

Nope all good Bobbie. my Kids are perfectly healthy not having a couple vaccines. And yes the article was late October. I doubt the numbers will change that dramatically but whatever.

[xuwillie]

Yeah I think it is mostly about ignorance regarding vaccines and the process this one went through.

The government and these companies developing the vaccine have done a horrific job at getting the word out and educating the public about the vaccine and its safety and why/how it was able to get to market so much quicker than other vaccines. I have been saying to co-workers and family members for months that I can't understand why there isnt all sorts of marketing about the vaccine and its process and safety. Maybe I guess because they didn't know exactly when it would be ready. Maybe we will see that now and it will help since the majority of the population wont be able to get it for a while still.

I agree with this and People with high risk should definitely get it. Maybe by next summer we will know more But I’m in zero rush to get it.

[GoMuskies]

I'll get it when they tell me it's my turn. I'm not disappointed that I'm in the back of line.

[xu82]

Lol such a fool. Just because I think you're an idiot, doesnt mean I'm a democrat, and regardless, grouping people into silos based on political affiliation is really effed up.

You put this more succinctly than I did in a now deleted post. I find this lumping people into buckets is foolish. Stay away from words like always and never, all and none. Every person is unique, like it or not. If you are “extreme” in anything other than things like kindness, you probably have an issue.

[bobbiemcgee]

Nope all good Bobbie. my Kids are perfectly healthy not having a couple vaccines. And yes the article was late October. I doubt the numbers will change that dramatically but whatever.

i was just having some fun with 'ya. Unfortunately, I'm so freaking old and messed up I'll be at the head of the line.

[GoMuskies]

Electoral college tomorrow, which can only mean one thing: in about 24 hours my sports betting account should get a nice reload!

[tacopizza885]

Never even mentions God. Hmmm.

Good point. Credit where credit is due. Since initially reading the post, I have also learned he is a contributor to the Huffington Post. Which I imagine throws an avalanche of red flags to certain people. His other posts seem to be tilted also. But it may just be the age of Trump.... backlash.

Regarding coronavirus: I guess my question is... can we trust our doctors? The people we see on a regular basis? Back in April, one of my doctors confidently said that 75% of the population will have COVID-19 before all is said and done (if people don't take this more seriously). Are we heading in that direction?

He also stated that I (high risk) should absolutely get vaccinated... as well as anyone over 50. He put me in the Phase 2 category...to begin in February-March.

I haven't had a flu shot in over 15 yrs, in November I ran into Walgreens (masked up). The pharmacist made me wait for 10 minutes. after injection, in the lobby (to observe any reactions or possible side effects), then let me go.

Aside from a sore arm for a day and a half, things went well.

But I'm sure that Bill Gates and the Deep Stare are smiling from ear to ear right now. They convinced another sucker... and the nano chip has been entered into the hive/matrix.

[Masterofreality]

I'm getting the vaccine at 9am on Thursday. First appointment of the day at my regional hospital. I would have gotten it sooner if I could. The data and structure of the studies regarding safety and efficacy is strong. I would encourage anyone who can get the vaccine to do so, without hesitation.

Believe Doc Crawford.

[Masterofreality]

And when the voters figured him out as one of the worst presidents ever, he was rejected by the voters as irrelevant in 2020. Remember

Just to be clear, I have major disagreements with his policies, and think they have been incredibly damaging to our country, and the world.
As best as I can tell, he was determined to overturn everything that Obama touched out of some sort of desire he was the greatest.
Obama’s policies were awful for the US. Iran? Really? Isis? Really? Two State Palestine solution? Really? Ferguson? Divider in Chief? Really?

He attacked, and the party still is, the ACA that brought health care to 20 million Americans. Where was the great replacement plan promised since 2010?
I thought all you Dems thought that Obamacare was perfect, yet Biden ran on fixing it. Nothing has been changed. Red Herring
He took us out of the Paris accord when climate change is a challenge for the future. You don't like it, stay and make it better. Don't run away like a child.
Paris Climate Accord did nothing to the biggest polluters-China and India, but wants to stick it to us. US who has already lowered carbon emissions more than any other country in the last 4 years.
He took us out of the Iran deal on some bullshit pretense, and they are enriching uranium as a result, making the world a far more dangerous place.
Iran never stopped enriching Uranium. That has been verified. They got pallets full of our cash and never stopped. Now Trumps policies have Peace deals with Israel and Arab countries that isolate Iran. If Biden doesn’t screw it up, Iran will have a revolution
He sucked up to dictators and wished people would treat him like they force their people to treat them. Far from statesmanship.
Sucked up to who? Are you saying that there should be no negotiations with adversaries? North Korea stopped nuclear testing. Russia hasn’t attacked Ukraine like under Obama’s appeasement. Syria has quieted down and Isis is defeated. Trump stood up to China.If anyone is sucking up to dictators is Biden who is compromised by his, his brother’s and his son’s business dealings with the CCP
He separated families at the boarder, and they don't even know where the children can go to reunite with their parents.
That was Obama’s policies. There are pictures from 2014 if you’d bother to look. Trump tried to make an immigration deal with the Dems and in fact the Government was shut down over it. The Dems blocked it.
He promised Mexico would pay for the wall. Really?
Trump received the highest percentage of Hispanic votes in history. South TEXAS nearest the Mexican border went overwhelmingly for Trump after going 60% for Hillary in 2016
He instructed executive branch people to ignore valid subpoenas from Congress who has the power to oversee the Executive.
And rightly so since they were politically motivated stunts from liar Adam “I have collusion evidence that was never produced” Schiff and Nancy “Dance in Chinatown in a Pandemic” Pelosi. The courts didn’t force anyone to comply because they were recognized as bogus.
He disrespects our military, calling them suckers and losers. And wanted "my generals" to lick his boots until even they had enough.
There was one story that The Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg wrote claiming those comments. Goldberg said there would be more back up coming. There never was, EVER. And all credible sources, including John Bolton, no Trump friend, said it was total BS. Trump DID RE-fund the Military and also fixed a massively dysfunctional VA to better treat veterans. By the way, “Military Men” want to fight, not pull troops out of countries. Are you actually defending wanting War Paul? I thought all you Leftists were pacifists!

I could go on and on.
Please do so I can refute everything you claim
He is one of the world's greatest con man, and he's convinced 77% of Republicans that the election was stolen, despite his own people saying it was the most secure ever.
He’s filed legal challenges. They are performative and will not end the Republic. He will leave office on January 20 as he should. But there were very curious occurrences this year. Why are you against legitimate voter Identification and full ballot counting oversight?
Style doesn't count, but substance does. And he has no substance.
Haha! His “no substance” created 4 years of no new wars, ISIS destroyed, the lowest Black unemployment rate ever, incredibly low jobless rates, Middle East peace deals and renegotiated trade deals.
He whines for millions on twitter...and you buy into it just like the Trump University suckers.
He had to Tweet because of 95% negative press coverage. When he said there would be a Covid Vaccine by years end all the MSM dismissed it calling it a lie. Welp. Just one example. .

See above. You might need to try harder Paul. Every point is easily countered.
Enjoy your 6 months of a Dementia ridden Biden before Cackling Kamala is summarily installed.

[paulxu]

MOR, I appreciate the responses, but most are not on point.
For example, Iran was enriching uranium at low grade levels and international inspectors were on site (just like before Bush's mistake in Iraq).
The "boatloads of cash" were unfreezing their own bank accounts that had been frozen because of their activities. We didn't "send" them anything.
When we pulled out they started enriching at high yield levels, suitable for building a bomb, and no more inspectors.

You are correct, the legal challenges were "performative" like a side show. If there was so much fraud, after 50 court cases, at least one damn instance would have been validated. Yet all of them were thrown out, and he still claims he won by a landslide. And where did I ever say I was against voter ID or ballot oversight? You can't just make stuff up. That's for Fox and Friends.

[boozehound]

Are you referring to the covid vaccine? If so, my understanding is that those under 18 wont be getting it for right now.

Which is potentially another reason for adults to get vaccinated - kill the virus with herd immunity (the kind from getting vaccinated, not the kind from just letting the virus ravage us) so that kids don't get sick.

As yourself, D-West, and others have stated: There is little/no substantiated evidence that I am aware of in which vaccines cause negative effects years down the road. There is however, evidence of viruses that cause ill effects years down the road along with some suggestive evidence that COVID may be one of those viruses (at least for some people).

It's crazy - for centuries upon centuries disease ravaged humans. The plague killed upwards of 60% of Europe. Smallpox. etc. Two of the crowning achievements in science have been (1) antibiotics and (2) vaccinations. They have prevented countless deaths. When faced with a new Pandemic we responded in amazing record time (partially due to the fact that these vaccines were already in development to combat SARS had it continued to spread) and now we have a shocking amount of people who, for vague reasons, don't want to get vaccinated.

[boozehound]

I'm getting the vaccine at 9am on Thursday. First appointment of the day at my regional hospital. I would have gotten it sooner if I could. The data and structure of the studies regarding safety and efficacy is strong. I would encourage anyone who can get the vaccine to do so, without hesitation.

Thank you for posting this, Doctor.

[xubrew]

I'm getting the vaccine at 9am on Thursday. First appointment of the day at my regional hospital. I would have gotten it sooner if I could. The data and structure of the studies regarding safety and efficacy is strong. I would encourage anyone who can get the vaccine to do so, without hesitation.

Thank you for sharing!

I am getting the vaccine as soon as I can. It may be April, but I want it.

I'm the opposite of an anti-vaxxer. Vaccines are to me what iPhones are to a lot of other people. I want the latest one, and I want it first! Every September I go in to get my flu shot, and I ask them to give me everything else they've got.

I'm not a doctor, and since many may understandably think I'm crazy I might not be the best advocate for vaccines. But, when it comes to getting sick I am a complete wimp. I hate it. I'll get any vaccine that is available to me. If I could get the COVID vaccine today, I'd do it.

[STL_XUfan]

Thank you for sharing!

I am getting the vaccine as soon as I can. It may be April, but I want it.

I'm the opposite of an anti-vaxxer. Vaccines are to me what iPhones are to a lot of other people. I want the latest one, and I want it first! Every September I go in to get my flu shot, and I ask them to give me everything else they've got.

I'm not a doctor, and since many may understandably think I'm crazy I might not be the best advocate for vaccines. But, when it comes to getting sick I am a complete wimp. I hate it. I'll get any vaccine that is available to me. If I could get the COVID vaccine today, I'd do it.

At this point I am willing to act as though I am flying standby for a flight. I will just wait outside of the hospital and if someone doesn't show up for their appointment, I will take their place to make sure the vaccine doesn't go to waste.

[94GRAD]

At this point I am willing to act as though I am flying standby for a flight. I will just wait outside of the hospital and if someone doesn't show up for their appointment, I will take their place to make sure the vaccine doesn't go to waste.

Public reps, the man is keeping me down!

[Muskie in dayton]

Shes a democrat? Um, ok..good to know. Not sure what that has to do with anything.
Her statement was on the heels of the VP debate when Kamala said she wouldn’t take a vaccine that Trump supported.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Yeah I think it is mostly about ignorance regarding vaccines and the process this one went through.

The government and these companies developing the vaccine have done a horrific job at getting the word out and educating the public about the vaccine and its safety and why/how it was able to get to market so much quicker than other vaccines. I have been saying to co-workers and family members for months that I can't understand why there isnt all sorts of marketing about the vaccine and its process and safety. Maybe I guess because they didn't know exactly when it would be ready. Maybe we will see that now and it will help since the majority of the population wont be able to get it for a while still.

My greatest concern was how how quickly the vaccine was developed and I am glad not to be in the first wave of recipients.

That being said, my brother-in-law is a doctor, and at Thanksgiving we asked him if he would get the vaccine. He said he's read the research and will be getting it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My greatest concern was how how quickly the vaccine was developed and I am glad not to be in the first wave of recipients.

That being said, my brother-in-law is a doctor, and at Thanksgiving we asked him if he would get the vaccine. He said he's read the research and will be getting it.

And that I think is a lot of people's concerns and an understandable one. Which is why I think the government, or the companies, or whoever have done such a bad job educating the public on this vaccine. My understanding is that there were no safety corners cut with this vaccine. That the reason it was able to be produced so much quicker was because of basically unlimited funds and unprecedented technology on top of everyone in the world who deals with vaccines having the same goal and because of red tape, unrelated to safety, were cut by the FDA to get this done.

My understanding also is that the clinical trials were not rushed or done with less people or over less time but were done with on par with other vaccines.
I also understand it as any adverse effects of vaccines happen in the first 6 weeks. Also that the trials started in March and that was 9 months ago and that is plenty of time to evaluate any adverse effects.

[bjf123]

Cuomo accused of sexual harassment.

https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-governor-andrew-cuomo-accused-sexual-harassment-former-adviser-1554405

Let’s see if the Left is consistent with their stance during the Kavanaugh hearings where they said every woman must be believed. I’m going to go with no.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boozehound]

Her statement was on the heels of the VP debate when Kamala said she wouldn’t take a vaccine that Trump supported.

Which was a stupid thing for her to say (I felt that at the time, too). I believe she side something to the effect of "I won't take his vaccine." What she should have said was that she will take any vaccine that completes the FDA's rigorous testing protocol and is determined to be safe. I understand people being suspicious of a vaccine that was rushed through without proper protocol and approval processes. Trump's rhetoric about how he was pushing people to get the vaccine ready didn't help that. Had Trump gotten reelected I would feel the same way that I do now about the vaccine, provided that it completed a normal rigorous testing process. Get the vaccine.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, I appreciate the responses, but most are not on point.
For example, Iran was enriching uranium at low grade levels and international inspectors were on site (just like before Bush's mistake in Iraq).
The "boatloads of cash" were unfreezing their own bank accounts that had been frozen because of their activities. We didn't "send" them anything.
When we pulled out they started enriching at high yield levels, suitable for building a bomb, and no more inspectors.

You are correct, the legal challenges were "performative" like a side show. If there was so much fraud, after 50 court cases, at least one damn instance would have been validated. Yet all of them were thrown out, and he still claims he won by a landslide. And where did I ever say I was against voter ID or ballot oversight? You can't just make stuff up. That's for Fox and Friends.

But Substance. Right? All my responses are right on point so you can't refute them. You don't even try.
Also you are so blinded by your blue glasses you can't see all the good things that happened.
Hope you like being ruled by China with Compromised Dementia Joe.

[XU_Lou]

You put this more succinctly than I did in a now deleted post. I find this lumping people into buckets is foolish. Stay away from words like always and never, all and none. Every person is unique, like it or not. If you are “extreme” in anything other than things like kindness, you probably have an issue.

Laughable!!

Other than Tulsi Gabbard, show me one other Democrat that has spoken out against allowing men and boys to identify as females, take part in women sports, take their scholarships, and use their bathrooms? This is the most insane idea to ever come out of Western Civilization, and yet there are virtually no Democrats speaking out against this madness.

Show me one Democrat that has spoken out against the assault on Conservative free speech?

We can go on.

Whether thru conformity, or fear of reprisals, Democrats are in complete lock step in most leftist policies....

[Masterofreality]

Trump Vaccine!!

Known as such forevermore.

[paulxu]

But Substance. Right? All my responses are right on point so you can't refute them. You don't even try.
Also you are so blinded by your blue glasses you can't see all the good things that happened.
Hope you like being ruled by China with Compromised Dementia Joe.

I picked out just one, and refuted it. Did you read my response?

[X-man]

I picked out just one, and refuted it. Did you read my response?

MOR appears to be so blinded by his Trump-mania and right wing rage that I doubt he reads anything but QAnon site information.

[paulxu]

I hope this isn't behind a paywall.
It is an excellent article by Michael Gerson, George Bush's speechwriter.
It captures some of the challenges on both the left and right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/both-political-parties-have-entered-existential-crises-at-the-same-time/2020/12/10/3f37d048-3b25-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

[Muskie in dayton]

MOR appears to be so blinded by his Trump-mania and right wing rage that I doubt he reads anything but QAnon site information.
QAnon is living rent-free in your head.

[Strange Brew]

QAnon is living rent-free in your head.

I guess The Blaze is making rent now...

[paulxu]

Electoral college tomorrow, which can only mean one thing: in about 24 hours my sports betting account should get a nice reload!

Did they pay up...or make you wait until Jan 20th?

[GoMuskies]

Did they pay up...or make you wait until Jan 20th?

No pay up yet, but my hero Lamar Jackson did give my account a boost this evening!

[Lloyd Braun]

No pay up yet, but my hero Lamar Jackson did give my account a boost this evening!

Did the last play do it or something other than giving the points?

[paulxu]

Yesterday the electors cast their votes with Biden getting the same number as Trump in 2016.
Last night, the president sent a message to his 88 million followers that said in part:

"This Fake Election can no longer stand. Get moving Republicans."

A serious question: what exactly is the current president of our country asking his followers to do, and how is this a call to respect our country's history of peaceful transition of power?

[GoMuskies]

Did the last play do it or something other than giving the points?

I had Baltimore ML, so the last play didnt matter to me.

[GoMuskies]

Did they pay up...or make you wait until Jan 20th?

They paid this morning.

[paulxu]

They paid this morning.

Good deal!

[Masterofreality]

MOR appears to be so blinded by his Trump-mania and right wing rage that I doubt he reads anything but QAnon site information.

What the hell is QAnon?

[Masterofreality]

I picked out just one, and refuted it. Did you read my response?

So, Paul is to the point now of Defending a Country with a horrible Human Rights record and was letting their designated Henchman Solemeini go all over the middle east wreaking killing and havoc, that is until Trump took his ass out.
Iran is the leading source of State Sponsored Terror in the world, Paul. Did you forget that they kept US citizens hostage for months? Their regime hasn't changed, but Obama and the UN kowtowed to them. They never stopped enriching uranium even after the "Deal" that Obama granted them. They just kept on, and were enriched in dollars that we rightfully had been keeping because of the Hostage Crisis. THAT is the "Activities" you were referring to- taking Americans Hostage. So benign, right? We rightfully froze that money and they don't deserve it back. What a convenient memory lapse you have.

So there you have it folks. Paul has been finally exposed as a Terrorist state lover. Talk about somebody kissing up to Dictators. It's Paul and his buddy Barry O.

There is your response to your weak-ass "Refutation" Try again.

[Lamont Sanford]

MoR -

As we know, Paul (and Boobie and several others here) has such a raging case of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome), that they would rather support China.

You on the other hand are a great American.

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't know what you're pre-occupation with china is all about. Trade deficit skyrocketed under trump. What changed? China is still eating our lunch. They have the only economy that is growing. He didn't do anything except socialize the farmers. What did he do for Hong Kong? Nothing. Pompeo will complain at his 900 guest Christmas party at taxpayer expense.
Who gives a shit about trump and his resigning minions. They're done. Find something else to bitch about. Go find your safe space for 4 yrs.

[paulxu]

MOR, I tried to give you a reasonable response.
I never said Iran was a good state, or anything remotely about the stuff you brought up.
I directed my comments only toward the joint agreement we, and other nations had, regarding their enrichment program.
You have to enrich it to a certain level for it to be usable in weapons:

Low-enriched uranium, which typically has a 3-5% concentration of U-235, can be used to produce fuel for commercial nuclear power plants. Highly enriched uranium has a concentration of 20% or more and is used in research reactors. Weapons-grade uranium is 90% enriched or more.

The agreement we reached (yes, it did let them take possession of the funds we held up) allowed inspectors into the country to monitor their enrichment program to be sure it was at the 3-5% level. When we backed out, they started enriching to the 90+% level which they can use in atomic weapons.

Now, if you're at all concerned about the danger an atomic weapon possesses, especially in the hands of an agreed upon bad state (reference your comments above) then you want to do what you can to prevent them from developing/deploying this type of item, especially if they allow some terrorist group to get one.

The joint agreement was a multi-state sponsored effort with a VERY good reason...stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

That you don't appreciate that, is frankly beyond me. The only reason I can find that Trump backed us out of the agreement is because Obama had the US join. That's not really a great reason, and the result is potentially a catastrophe for the rest of the world...especially the Middle East.

If the fact that I support an agreement to keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons makes me a "Terrorist state lover", I am baffled by that logic.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, I tried to give you a reasonable response.
I never said Iran was a good state, or anything remotely about the stuff you brought up.
I directed my comments only toward the joint agreement we, and other nations had, regarding their enrichment program.
You have to enrich it to a certain level for it to be usable in weapons:


The agreement we reached (yes, it did let them take possession of the funds we held up) allowed inspectors into the country to monitor their enrichment program to be sure it was at the 3-5% level. When we backed out, they started enriching to the 90+% level which they can use in atomic weapons.

Now, if you're at all concerned about the danger an atomic weapon possesses, especially in the hands of an agreed upon bad state (reference your comments above) then you want to do what you can to prevent them from developing/deploying this type of item, especially if they allow some terrorist group to get one.

The joint agreement was a multi-state sponsored effort with a VERY good reason...stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

That you don't appreciate that, is frankly beyond me. The only reason I can find that Trump backed us out of the agreement is because Obama had the US join. That's not really a great reason, and the result is potentially a catastrophe for the rest of the world...especially the Middle East.

If the fact that I support an agreement to keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons makes me a "Terrorist state lover", I am baffled by that logic.

Trump vacated that horrible and hastily negotiated deal for 2 reasons:
1) It rewarded the world’s worst offender of State Sponsored Terror on a one way basis, and they were still cheating.
2) Even after the deal, Iran continued to wreak havoc and death throughout the Middle East through its Henchman Soliemeini, who, thankfully Trump eliminated.
Even your self stated “Multi States” that originally signed on, finally agreed with Trump.
From your Probable Bible- The New York Times on July 20,2020:
“ Iran Is Accused of Hiding Suspected Nuclear Activity
The United States and the big European powers, France, Britain and Germany, came together to declare they had serious concerns about Tehran’s failure to allow inspectors into two locations.
The accusation came in a resolution passed by the board of governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations watchdog, after its new director general, Rafael Grossi, reported that Iranian officials had repeatedly blocked inspectors and “sanitized” a site they wanted to visit.”

So Trump was right about Iran cheating all along, and they did years of cheating. They never stopped cheating. They were still enriching to 90%, just hiding it better. Nothing was accomplished by Obama’s deal other than empower a dangerous actor-state more. Again, talk about sucking up to Dictators, Paul.

The other Middle East countries see that Trump was right. They are all rushing to do peace deals with Israel, so as to further isolate Iran. With Soliemeini gone, and Iran’s weakened state, they aren’t afraid of the mullahs over there anymore.

Want to try again?

[paulxu]

Sure. There is no evidence that I can find that Iran was cheating all along, that they never stopped cheating (other than Trump saying so).
If you have some link to a credible source, I would appreciate it.
I do not have a subscription to the NYT.

The agreement was signed in 2015. Trump pulled us out in 2018.
The rest of the countries and Iran continued despite our pullout.
Iran lowered their stockpiles from 22,000 lbs of higher enriched uranium to 660 lbs of low enriched.
The closed a research facility that would be needed for weapon development. They lowered the number of centrifuges, and I believe high speed ones.
Inspectors were on the ground, and in fact may still be there.

But...we pulled out, and after the general was killed, Iran said they were leaving the agreement in January 2020.
Just because they won't allow inspectors to some sites now...quelle surprise. They aren't officially in the agreement, especially for the part about uranium enrichment and centrifuges. Your quote is from June of 2020, months after they left.

Were they cheating all along? I suspect we don't really know, but our best chance to control the situation to check that, was discarded by Trump.

My question still stands: why would we want to throw away an effort to keep nuclear arms away from a bad state, and potential terrorists, by leaving an effort to control them? Just calling them cheaters isn't at all helpful.

[tacopizza885]

What the hell is QAnon?

QAnon:
https://youtu.be/VGrfN3v5JL8

Alex Jones:
https://youtu.be/MYqnCXzJxJE

Alex Jones: Sandy Hook
https://youtu.be/Q1Nn0Z55lSw

More Sandy Hook:
https://youtu.be/FuqjmP959vo

We all knew too:

https://youtu.be/P43wDpKQxaM

[tacopizza885]

ALEX JONES!!!

https://youtu.be/4LeChPL0sLE

[Masterofreality]

Sure. There is no evidence that I can find
If you have some link to a credible source, I would appreciate it..

New York Times. Iran 7/20/20. Google it.

No comment about Soliemeini huh Paul? Just ignore that Iran State Sponsored terrorist huh?

No refutation of my other points.

Now I guess you’ve stopped trying.

[paulxu]

As I noted to you above, Iran pulled out of the agreement in Jan 2020. Saying they were not allowing inspectors to sites in July 2020 makes sense. They had started incremental pull outs of particular terms, after we left the agreement in 2018.
They weren't in the agreement and didn't have to. That does not prove they "were cheating all along." As far as I know, they complied with all terms while they were in the agreement. Disposed of stockpiles, closed research center, got rid of centrifuges, only enriched to 5%, let inspectors in, etc.

What comment do you want about Soliemeini? I noted that Iran left the agreement after he was killed (2 days later).

I acknowledged that Iran was a very bad state actor on the world stage. I'm far from ignoring they are a terrorist nation.

In fact, that's exactly the point of the JCPOA...keep a terrorist nation from enriching uranium to weapons grade and creating a nuclear weapon.
I fail still to understand why you don't seem to grasp that.

I'm not going to stop trying, but recommend you research some knowledgeable sites regarding arms control. My brother worked in that field for his entire government career and still consults with many parties on it around the world. So a little knowledge I have from him maybe is not the best resource.

Try these:


Despite Iran’s verified compliance with the deal, the United States unilaterally withdrew from the JCPOA on May 8, 2018, and subsequently re-imposed all U.S. sanctions on Iran lifted by the accord.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/JCPOA-at-a-glance

And this for a detailed history of our nuclear diplomacy with Iran

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Timeline-of-Nuclear-Diplomacy-With-Iran

Good luck!

[bobbiemcgee]

Nope all good Bobbie. my Kids are perfectly healthy not having a couple vaccines. And yes the article was late October. I doubt the numbers will change that dramatically but whatever.


Believe Doc Crawford.

:sign-wtf:

[boozehound]

Many have (rightfully) made light of the left 'eating itself' so to speak with the fringe elements of the party gaining more influence and then turning on the more moderate Democrats, but it seems like we are seeing the same thing now within the Republican party with the way some of them are turning on Mitch McConnell. I'm not a fan of Mitch, but I would argue that he has done a lot more than Trump to advance conservative priorities.

Both parties have courted their extremists lately and it seems to be backfiring similarly. I'd love to believe that this would be an eye opening experience that would moves us closer toward an environment that rejects the fringe elements of both sides and embraces compromise, but I don't see any realistic chance of that happening.

[XUBob]

Boozehound,
I agree with the above. The problem as I see it is that compromise is looked upon as weakness by both parties. Instead of seeing leadership in compromise, the fringes see giving in and selling out. Those politicians that compromise tend to get primaried and usually the fringes on both sides vote in candidates with extreme right or left viewpoints. I miss the days when working together was seen as good government.

[boozehound]

Boozehound,
I agree with the above. The problem as I see it is that compromise is looked upon as weakness by both parties. Instead of seeing leadership in compromise, the fringes see giving in and selling out. Those politicians that compromise tend to get primaried and usually the fringes on both sides vote in candidates with extreme right or left viewpoints. I miss the days when working together was seen as good government.

Totally. I look at John McCain as an example of this. I really liked John McCain before he ran. I was a huge fan of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and John McCain used to come on and honestly debate policy. He consistently worked across the aisle while also staying true to his values. I was excited he was running for President. The problem was that he had to tack so far to the right to win the primaries that it was hard for him to get back to rational ground. Then he let the RNC pick Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Obama then furthered this, particularly when he had the House and Senate. He viewed the progressive agenda as morally correct, and conservatism as a dying philosophy and sought to impose his health care plan on them.

Trump absolutely turbo charged this bullshit partisanism to a degree that is getting very dangerous to the country, IMO. Millions of people are cheering on open sedition by the President and his inner circle. That part has surprised even me.

[Strange Brew]

Totally. I look at John McCain as an example of this. I really liked John McCain before he ran. I was a huge fan of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and John McCain used to come on and honestly debate policy. He consistently worked across the aisle while also staying true to his values. I was excited he was running for President. The problem was that he had to tack so far to the right to win the primaries that it was hard for him to get back to rational ground. Then he let the RNC pick Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Obama then furthered this, particularly when he had the House and Senate. He viewed the progressive agenda as morally correct, and conservatism as a dying philosophy and sought to impose his health care plan on them.

Trump absolutely turbo charged this bullshit partisanism to a degree that is getting very dangerous to the country, IMO. Millions of people are cheering on open sedition by the President and his inner circle. That part has surprised even me.

Suspending his campaign during the Financial Crisis hurt him. Where he lost most on the Right was the Obamacare repeal vote. It seemed out of spite rather than principal. He also wanted war with Iran which crossed him with the Lebertarian wing of the Party.

[STL_XUfan]

Boozehound,
I agree with the above. The problem as I see it is that compromise is looked upon as weakness by both parties. Instead of seeing leadership in compromise, the fringes see giving in and selling out. Those politicians that compromise tend to get primaried and usually the fringes on both sides vote in candidates with extreme right or left viewpoints. I miss the days when working together was seen as good government.

It is also both parties demonizing the position of the other party to make the other look radical. The reality is on most issue that the parties are not that far a part as compared to wide gamut of political positions across the world and history. But it is more politically advantageous to just label every policy of the opponent as socialism or cold hearted greed even before you know what the policy is.

[Masterofreality]

As I noted to you above, Iran pulled out of the agreement in Jan 2020. Saying they were not allowing inspectors to sites in July 2020 makes sense. They had started incremental pull outs of particular terms, after we left the agreement in 2018.
They weren't in the agreement and didn't have to. That does not prove they "were cheating all along." As far as I know, they complied with all terms while they were in the agreement. Disposed of stockpiles, closed research center, got rid of centrifuges, only enriched to 5%, let inspectors in, etc.

What comment do you want about Soliemeini? I noted that Iran left the agreement after he was killed (2 days later).

I acknowledged that Iran was a very bad state actor on the world stage. I'm far from ignoring they are a terrorist nation.

In fact, that's exactly the point of the JCPOA...keep a terrorist nation from enriching uranium to weapons grade and creating a nuclear weapon.
I fail still to understand why you don't seem to grasp that.

I'm not going to stop trying, but recommend you research some knowledgeable sites regarding arms control. My brother worked in that field for his entire government career and still consults with many parties on it around the world. So a little knowledge I have from him maybe is not the best resource.

Try these:



https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/JCPOA-at-a-glance

And this for a detailed history of our nuclear diplomacy with Iran

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Timeline-of-Nuclear-Diplomacy-With-Iran

Good luck!

I’m done with your one trick pony argument Paul, and your continued water carrying for the most dangerous Terrorist State in the world. The same terrorist state and regime-still in power- that took American Citizens hostage, have kidnapped, imprisoned, tortured and killed journalists and fomented violence all over the Middle East through its henchmen. Obama empowered them and they were not, and still are not to be trusted.

The two links below explain and detail it better than I ever could as to why it was a horrible sell out deal and remained so through it all. This doesn’t even count the current evidence of the recent Arab/Israeli peace deals. The links are from the BI-PARTISAN organization United Against Nuclear Iran.
A description of that Organization follows:
“ United Against Nuclear Iran (UANI) is a not-for-profit, bi-partisan, educational and advocacy group that seeks to prevent Iran from fulfilling its ambition to obtain nuclear weapons. UANI was founded in 2008 by Ambassador Mark D. Wallace, the late Ambassador Richard Holbrooke (who served in the Obama Administration- my insert)and Middle East expert Ambassador Dennis Ross and is led by a diverse Advisory Board of policy experts and former government officials. UANI works to ensure the economic and diplomatic isolation of the Iranian regime in order to compel Iran to abandon its illegal nuclear weapons program, support for terrorism and human rights violations.”

https://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/iran-nuclear-deal?gclid=CjwKCAiA_eb-BRB2EiwAGBnXXjHnTkTsS8OeiwtswFPPUz2CDmscufNALjmcc5 wZM0SHsshna9cNMRoCFEgQAvD_BwE

https://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/news/on-jcpoas-fifth-anniversary-its-flaws-are-more-apparent-than-ever?gclid=CjwKCAiA_eb-BRB2EiwAGBnXXqsoqje6ypqIIDVJdR72HUm-Tb8D4ltLJGnExsSVT_5i4h3SVlt-lRoCUtoQAvD_BwE

I’m now done on this particular topic. You one tricked on this and still never addressed my other answers as to the benefits and truths of Trumps years.
You should go to debate school Paul. You lose.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I’m now done on this particular topic. You one tricked on this and still never addressed my other answers as to the benefits and truths of Trumps years.
You should go to debate school Paul. You lose.

MOR I would have to imagine one of the first lessons in "debate school" would be the participants of the debate don't determine who wins and loses!

[paulxu]

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a debate. I thought we were exchanging views on the Iranian situation.
I read up on the sites you noted. They seem to be genuine with the right intention of preventing Iran from possessing nuclear weapons.
Their main strategy is forceful support for sanctions on trade. (this alone does not work as evidenced by our sanctions not preventing North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons and now with the apparent systems to deliver them).

The earlier multi-lateral US strategy was a combination of the sanctions and the items from the JCPOA.
The balanced perspective was successful until we pulled out in accomplishing its aims with no evidence of Iranian "cheating."
That's all changed, now that we left. I don't think for the better.

Your group was worried about sunset provisions without regard for further diplomacy at that point could accomplish.
We went 5 years without Iran enriching past the dangerous stage. That's all changed now. I hope they don't get to the nuclear weapon stage, or have some terrorist get a hold of it from them. I think it would have served us well to stay in that agreement.
I also would have thought Kaplan and Alderson (75% of the group's funding) would have wanted the same thing.

Enjoyed the dialogue. Hope you take a moment or 2 to read the Arms Control material. I think it would give you a broader perspective on the issues.

[Masterofreality]

MOR I would have to imagine one of the first lessons in "debate school" would be the participants of the debate don't determine who wins and loses!

Not in this house when one side is getting “Schooled”.

[Strange Brew]

Sid P’s case in now on the docket with the SCOTUS.

[Mrs. Garrett]

https://twitter.com/JaredPushner/status/1339422671252156416

[paulxu]

I really wonder what Russia has on Trump. Maybe it's as simple as backing his loans from Deutsche Bank.

They meddled in our 2016 election, and he refused to acknowledge that.
They seemingly issued bounties for the killing of American soldiers, and he said it was fake news.
Now they have breached many of our agencies with a cyber attack, and he is silent.

There's just something not right about all this.

[Strange Brew]

I really wonder what Russia has on Trump. Maybe it's as simple as backing his loans from Deutsche Bank.

They meddled in our 2016 election, and he refused to acknowledge that.
They seemingly issued bounties for the killing of American soldiers, and he said it was fake news.
Now they have breached many of our agencies with a cyber attack, and he is silent.

There's just something not right about all this.

Everyone admitted including DT they meddled. He didn’t have anything to do with it.

Also, evidence is available Russia, China and others meddled in the 2020 election. Move on from 2016 Paul.

[Masterofreality]

RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA!!
In response, get ready to hear CHINA, CHINA, CHINA for the next 4 years from the right- with a helluva lot more credibility than the Russia BS.

Everyone has acknowledged the 2016 attempt at meddling, but it had zero to do with the outcome and there was no collusion or wrongdoing by Trumps campaign as shown by a year & a half Mueller Investigation.

The “Russian Bounty” story has not ever been proven or corroborated. As below states. Now it’s faded away.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/defense/516356-us-commander-russian-bounties-on-us-troops-has-not-been-proved%3famp

Let’s see if you follow The Biden Family China Scandal, Paul, as diligently as you seem to have followed the Trump/Russia Nothingburger.

TRUMP VACCINE!!!

[paulxu]

Perhaps you should read the Republican Senate Intelligence Committee report documenting their findings.
Just trying to imagine if Biden's campaign manager shared voter data with a Russian intelligence officer as Manafort did.
You would have gone nuts I think. But...nothing to see I guess.

Now they are busy compromising a lot of our computer systems, and what does the President say? Crickets.

Trump does get credit for supporting a rapid development of the vaccine. I hope he also supports the funding necessary for complete distribution.

[boozehound]

We have the largest defense budget in the world (over $600B/YR) and we keep falling victim to Cyber Attacks. We need to think a lot differently about how we are spending that $600B. This most recent Cyber Attack (which Russia seems to be behind) should be a wake up call. I would hope we could all agree on the following:

1. We need to dramatically increase our Cyber Security
2. We should find out who was responsible and punish them to the greatest extent possible

We need to send a message to all countries that they can't try to influence our elections and hack our Government IT infrastructure without significant consequences.

[Masterofreality]

Welp. I guess the Conspiracy Theorists were right. Trump was working to screw up the Post Office.
But he sure did it in an odd way.
He allowed 234,567,830,321,432,492,349, 214, 326,569 absentee mail in ballots to be processed.
But now Christmas packages are lost.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[bobbiemcgee]

But now Christmas packages are lost.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Yep. and he is still the f'ing president doing nothing about it. I sent a card that took 17 days across town.

[paulxu]

I wonder if it's treason to entertain martial law with a pardoned criminal in the Oval Office to remain in power?

[Masterofreality]

Trump will live on in Paul and Bobbie's minds rent free forever.

It's gonna be amazing 5 years from now when they are still on here railing with their crazy conspiracies about how Orange Man Bad ruined the country.

Get a new line of BS boys.

[paulxu]

I'm trying to imagine what would be said here if Obama had a pardoned criminal general back in his office during the lame duck season of his first term...and they discussed martial law. That's what 3rd rate dictators do when they are about to be out of power; plot to stage a coup. Heads would explode.
Thousands dying every day, Russia hacks our intelligence systems, millions about to lose life support, hospitals over-flowing...and this guy is discussing making the Kraken idiot a special counsel.

Just like Bush, Trump has left a gigantic mess for a Dem to clean up. Hopefully Mitch won't spend years blocking our road to recovery.

[xukeith]

I'm trying to imagine .....Hopefully Mitch won't spend years blocking our road to recovery.

Half the country disagrees.

[Strange Brew]

I'm trying to imagine what would be said here if Obama had a pardoned criminal general back in his office during the lame duck season of his first term...and they discussed martial law. That's what 3rd rate dictators do when they are about to be out of power; plot to stage a coup. Heads would explode.
Thousands dying every day, Russia hacks our intelligence systems, millions about to lose life support, hospitals over-flowing...and this guy is discussing making the Kraken idiot a special counsel.

Just like Bush, Trump has left a gigantic mess for a Dem to clean up. Hopefully Mitch won't spend years blocking our road to recovery.

Obama pardoned quite a bit of drug criminals and terrorists/traitors (Manning, Rivera) and traded terrorists for a deserter so...

[boozehound]

I'm trying to imagine what would be said here if Obama had a pardoned criminal general back in his office during the lame duck season of his first term...and they discussed martial law. That's what 3rd rate dictators do when they are about to be out of power; plot to stage a coup. Heads would explode.
Thousands dying every day, Russia hacks our intelligence systems, millions about to lose life support, hospitals over-flowing...and this guy is discussing making the Kraken idiot a special counsel.

Just like Bush, Trump has left a gigantic mess for a Dem to clean up. Hopefully Mitch won't spend years blocking our road to recovery.

Forgot about the pardoning - what about the election shenanigans? Can you imagine if Obama had told people he he might not leave office, and flirted with the idea of declaring martial law while consistently calling the election fraudulent. People would be losing their minds.

This shit is getting super crazy. Even Bill Barr is off the Trump train. Mitch has now acknowledged the election. The only people left are complete lunatics like Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell. I'm curious to see how this goes as Trump tries to 'burn it all down' on his way out the door. He is already angry at sane Republicans for not being 'loyal' enough to him. What is he going to do after he leaves office, and how will it impact the Republican party? How will it impact the country?

Remember: Trump was never really a Republican, and he has no loyalty to anybody. I don't think he cares one bit if he divides Republicans. If he can find a way to break off about 10MM or so Republicans and monetize them I can't imagine he would think twice about doing that.

[X-band '01]

Forgot about the pardoning - what about the election shenanigans? Can you imagine if Obama had told people he he might not leave office, and flirted with the idea of declaring martial law while consistently calling the election fraudulent. People would be losing their minds.

This shit is getting super crazy. Even Bill Barr is off the Trump train. Mitch has now acknowledged the election. The only people left are complete lunatics like Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell. I'm curious to see how this goes as Trump tries to 'burn it all down' on his way out the door. He is already angry at sane Republicans for not being 'loyal' enough to him. What is he going to do after he leaves office, and how will it impact the Republican party? How will it impact the country?

Remember: Trump was never really a Republican, and he has no loyalty to anybody. I don't think he cares one bit if he divides Republicans. If he can find a way to break off about 10MM or so Republicans and monetize them I can't imagine he would think twice about doing that.

Normally, I'd say that mid-term primaries aren't good for the incumbent party, but it wouldn't surprise me to see voters go the other way in 2022 and in no uncertain terms say F off to the GOP on both the federal and state levels.

[paulxu]

If he can find a way to break off about 10MM or so Republicans and monetize them I can't imagine he would think twice about doing that.

He's already done that. Over $200 million in his own PAC that he can use when he leaves, from people who were lead to believe he needed it for lawsuits.
Someday they'll understand he doesn't give 2 sh$ts about the little guy, only plays to him to get more money and stroke his ego.

[boozehound]

He's already done that. Over $200 million in his own PAC that he can use when he leaves, from people who were lead to believe he needed it for lawsuits.
Someday they'll understand he doesn't give 2 sh$ts about the little guy, only plays to him to get more money and stroke his ego.

Right, but why stop now? I would imagine he could put hundreds of millions in his own pocket directly, forget about a Super PAC. He just needs to create or co-opt a media channel and find a way to monetize it. Heck, he could essentially create his own political party.

[paulxu]

Just coincidence I'm sure, but his private Deutsche bank bankers just resigned.

[Xville]

Normally, I'd say that mid-term primaries aren't good for the incumbent party, but it wouldn't surprise me to see voters go the other way in 2022 and in no uncertain terms say F off to the GOP on both the federal and state levels.

Huh? Gop made significant gains in the house, and probably maintained the senate. I dont think trump is going to have much power over what happens in the midterms.

[Strange Brew]

Just coincidence I'm sure, but his private Deutsche bank bankers just resigned.

Probably is nothing. Deutsche MNA teams jump around often (most major banks do for one reason or another).

[waggy]

"I am asking Congress to amend this bill and increase the ridiculously low $600 dollars to $2,000, or $4,000 for a couple," Mr. Trump said in the recorded message. "I am also asking Congress to immediately get rid of the wasteful and unnecessary items in this legislation, and to send me a suitable bill, or else the next administration will have to deliver a COVID relief package. And maybe that administration will be me, and we will get it done."

Thought this from Trump was interesting. The two relief/stimulus packages together is about 3.6 trillion dollars. Roughly that's 12 million per dead person. And much much more than that when the 90% comorbid are subtracted.

[boozehound]

Thought this from Trump was interesting. The two relief/stimulus packages together is about 3.6 trillion dollars. Roughly that's 12 million per dead person. And much much more than that when the 90% comorbid are subtracted. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Fiscal conservatism is not Trump’s thing. For as much shit as we (rightfully) gave Obama for increasing the budget deficit, Trump has accelerated that. He is a populist and if you view this through that lens, it makes a lot more sense. Who doesn’t want $2K, right? Screw the deficit, that’s a future problem!

Personally I’m all for helping people, but I think that the aid needs to be focused on people who have directly lost their income, not just sending cash to all low/middle income families, many of whom have not been financially impacted.

[Xville]

Fiscal conservatism is not Trump’s thing. For as much shit as we (rightfully) gave Obama for increasing the budget deficit, Trump has accelerated that. He is a populist and if you view this through that lens, it makes a lot more sense. Who doesn’t want $2K, right? Screw the deficit, that’s a future problem!

Personally I’m all for helping people, but I think that the aid needs to be focused on people who have directly lost their income, not just sending cash to all low/middle income families, many of whom have not been financially impacted.

the annoying part on this "covid" bill is that it seems like most of it has nothing to do with covid relief. 700 million to Sudan, however million to the effing Kennedy Center etc etc. Most of it is a typical government spending bill, wrapped up in the name of covid relief. Its baloney. 600 dollars to a person that is struggling is a slap in the face, especially when you see where a lot of the rest of this money is going

[Smails]

I do not pretend to know much about what goes into the 'bill building' process on Capitol Hill. But can anyone on either side of the aisle explain to me why we are giving the Sudan 700 million dollars as part of the US Covid relief bill? I know the republicans are all up in arms and shouting from the rooftops, but can some of the staunch dems on this board explain why they are okay (or not okay) with this? It seems like this is a no-brainer issue that Dem and GOP supporters could agree on....no?

[GoMuskies]

Isn't that the completely separate omnibus spending bill that has the Sudan money?

[Xville]

Isn't that the completely separate omnibus spending bill that has the Sudan money?

Probably, but regardless, is that really what we need to be doing right now? Yes I'm a heartless bastard but I dont give a shit about Sudan.

[paulxu]

I would guess it has to do with Israel.

https://www.axios.com/trump-grants-immunity-us-embassy-bombings-sudan-deal-b4d49bf6-dc72-43db-b98e-6c842e2e7312.html

[paulxu]

Regarding sending $ to people, it would seem that sending a larger amount to just the people really hurting (maybe the bottom 10-20% of households) would be much more effective. Relieve the worse stress and the money would almost all go directly back into the economy for food, rent, etc.

I know...wishful thinking.

[tacopizza885]

News from Today:

Trump's veto of the stimulus bill:

Trump is apparently mad at McConnell/Thune, and declaring war on any high ranking Republican who acknowledges the results of a fair election. We all want to cut the pork out of any bill, but we don't want to defund our military, TSA, etc. The people deserve a 2K check, during this pandemic, and small businesses deserve funding also. BUT, this seems like more of a revenge move. I am all for a stimulus package for struggling Americans. Yet, I'm quite certain, this has more to do with optics, then concern from our leader in chief.

Iran:

Iran is firing missiles into Iraq, and Trump has pictures. Particularly, of three duds, that failed to launch and reach their target. So, on goes the chest thumping and threat to retaliate. Let's hope and pray that sensible minds prevail.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1341862955604975617

Hunter Biden

It is being reported that Jared Kushner diverted campaign donations/funds to a shell company before the 2020 election. Given that half the country supports Trump, this may explain the lack of funding for ads/campaigning in swing states.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/12/jared-kushner-campaign-shell-company



Nepotism

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-kids-profit-presidency



I imagine many of you are getting worn out by politics (like myself). Maybe the answer (chosen one) is among us.

Snipe is a uniter NOT a divider. YET where was he when we landed in Omaha? No post? No thread? Nothing. Silence.

Perhaps the success of the Musketeers will be determined by Snipe's leadership, perhaps the fate of America will also. The question is, will he step up?

[Snipe]

Forgot about the pardoning - what about the election shenanigans? Can you imagine if Obama had told people he he might not leave office, and flirted with the idea of declaring martial law while consistently calling the election fraudulent. People would be losing their minds.

This shit is getting super crazy. Even Bill Barr is off the Trump train. Mitch has now acknowledged the election. The only people left are complete lunatics like Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell. I'm curious to see how this goes as Trump tries to 'burn it all down' on his way out the door. He is already angry at sane Republicans for not being 'loyal' enough to him. What is he going to do after he leaves office, and how will it impact the Republican party? How will it impact the country?

Remember: Trump was never really a Republican, and he has no loyalty to anybody. I don't think he cares one bit if he divides Republicans. If he can find a way to break off about 10MM or so Republicans and monetize them I can't imagine he would think twice about doing that.


Obama used the intelligence agencies to investigate Trump. We have already crossed the Rubicon. It is over.

[paulxu]

There sure were a lot of guilty people working for, and around, this president.

[bobbiemcgee]

Defund the military? Brilliant. Covid? Not interested. Shut down the country? Could care less. 31 golf vacations costing us 152 million. Good. Pardons for murderers who shot 8 and 11 yr.old kids in the head. Very good.

[paulxu]

Signs of the times:

Rupert Murdoch's NY Post decides that Trump may be insane and a loser, while noting that “Sidney Powell is a crazy person,” the board asserted. “Michael Flynn suggesting martial law is tantamount to treason.”

https://nypost.com/2020/12/27/give-it-up-mr-president-for-your-sake-and-the-nations/

In other news, Louie Gomhert decided to round up some other nut jobs and sue Mike Pence. Fascinating.

[boozehound]

Isn't that the completely separate omnibus spending bill that has the Sudan money?

I believe that is accurate. Not the same bill - the COVID bill is pretty much all COVID related spending. I'm not sure where the confusion got started between the two, but my guess would be twitter.


Regarding sending $ to people, it would seem that sending a larger amount to just the people really hurting (maybe the bottom 10-20% of households) would be much more effective. Relieve the worse stress and the money would almost all go directly back into the economy for food, rent, etc.

I know...wishful thinking.

That's what I have been screaming. Lots of people are getting money that don't need it, and lots of other people need a lot more help than they are getting. Many people are financially unaffected by this - and not just rich people. Plenty of lower income workers have not been impacted at all either. Sure, they could always use $600, but they don't need it now anymore than they did before COVID. Contrast that to many people in service sectors that have lost almost all of their income.

That's not even getting into small business owners who can't draw unemployment and have in many cases been essentially shut down by COVID. Think bar owners, for example. I'd like to see them getting even more help, instead of some dude who hasn't taken a hit getting $600.


Signs of the times:

Rupert Murdoch's NY Post decides that Trump may be insane and a loser, while noting that “Sidney Powell is a crazy person,” the board asserted. “Michael Flynn suggesting martial law is tantamount to treason.”

https://nypost.com/2020/12/27/give-it-up-mr-president-for-your-sake-and-the-nations/

In other news, Louie Gomhert decided to round up some other nut jobs and sue Mike Pence. Fascinating.

So many flag waving 'patriots' are being pretty quiet about this attempted coup. Makes you think.

[paulxu]

So many flag waving 'patriots' are being pretty quiet about this attempted coup. Makes you think.

They're on their way to DC for Jan 6th. Trump said it "will be wild."
We're like a 3rd rate, tinpot dictatorship, with our president insisting everyday that the election was a fraud.
Dozens of lawsuits later, and no proof of any fraud, and he's urging people to ignore and overturn the certified election results.
If it wasn't so scary for democracy it would be laughable.
Hopefully will make it through the next few weeks without any violence.

[bjf123]

I believe that is accurate. Not the same bill - the COVID bill is pretty much all COVID related spending. I'm not sure where the confusion got started between the two, but my guess would be twitter.



That's what I have been screaming. Lots of people are getting money that don't need it, and lots of other people need a lot more help than they are getting. Many people are financially unaffected by this - and not just rich people. Plenty of lower income workers have not been impacted at all either. Sure, they could always use $600, but they don't need it now anymore than they did before COVID. Contrast that to many people in service sectors that have lost almost all of their income.

That's not even getting into small business owners who can't draw unemployment and have in many cases been essentially shut down by COVID. Think bar owners, for example. I'd like to see them getting even more help, instead of some dude who hasn't taken a hit getting $600.



So many flag waving 'patriots' are being pretty quiet about this attempted coup. Makes you think.

Agreed. I’m very lucky in that I’ve been financially unaffected by COVID. My employer is having a record year and has been hiring people. My wife works two part time jobs doing things she loves. One was shut down for a few months, so we missed that income, but it was less than $500 a month. It hurt a little, but it wasn’t that big of a deal.

If they want to give us another $1,200, I’ll certainly take it. If they want to keep it and give more to those who’ve really been impacted, that’s a much better idea and I really won’t miss it. The issue is how do you determine who gets the extra?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

In other news, Louie Gomhert decided to round up some other nut jobs and sue Mike Pence. Fascinating.

Pence shutting down lyin' louie.

[Strange Brew]

Antifa firebombed a police station. Clearly a terrorist organization similar to SDS.

[paulxu]

Lin Wood makes a strong bid to out Kraken the Kraken;


Lin Wood
@LLinWood
Replying to @Courie85 @VP and 2 others
If Pence is arrested, @SecPompeo will save the election. Pence will be in jail awaiting trial for treason. He will face execution by firing squad. He is a coward & will sing like a bird & confess ALL.
1:02 PM · Jan 1, 2021

[STL_XUfan]

Lin Wood makes a strong bid to out Kraken the Kraken;
This was after Lin Wood accused Chief Justice Roberts of being a pedophile. I don’t know what drugs he is on, but shame on him for not sharing.

[boozehound]

Agreed. I’m very lucky in that I’ve been financially unaffected by COVID. My employer is having a record year and has been hiring people. My wife works two part time jobs doing things she loves. One was shut down for a few months, so we missed that income, but it was less than $500 a month. It hurt a little, but it wasn’t that big of a deal.

If they want to give us another $1,200, I’ll certainly take it. If they want to keep it and give more to those who’ve really been impacted, that’s a much better idea and I really won’t miss it. The issue is how do you determine who gets the extra?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that’s part of the challenge - it’s easier to just give everyone money. It’s much harder to get it to the right people. Putting more against extended unemployment and a program to help small business owners weather the storm would be two ways we could seek to align the funds more closely with the true need. It would take a lot more work to administer something like that though.

[bjf123]

And I now see that $1,200 has hit my bank account.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lloyd Braun]

Agreed. I’m very lucky in that I’ve been financially unaffected by COVID. My employer is having a record year and has been hiring people. My wife works two part time jobs doing things she loves. One was shut down for a few months, so we missed that income, but it was less than $500 a month. It hurt a little, but it wasn’t that big of a deal.

If they want to give us another $1,200, I’ll certainly take it. If they want to keep it and give more to those who’ve really been impacted, that’s a much better idea and I really won’t miss it. The issue is how do you determine who gets the extra?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m confused, as these bolded statements seem contradictory. Does missing income not affect anything?

That said, I think the first and most recent stimulus money is a giant waste of money for several reasons. Originally the thought was to help boost spending and help those struggling to pay basic bills. Which is fine. But I like the idea of giving smaller more frequent stimulus money that has an expiration. That way we have continued recirculating of money that is steady, rather than a large check to blow immediately, which people will do.

[bjf123]

I’m confused, as these bolder statements seem contradictory. Does missing income not affect anything?


When I said we missed the income, I meant in that we didn’t have it in the bank. The lack of it didn’t really change our lifestyle for those few months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Pence shutting down lyin' louie.

lyin' louie thought he had his texas judge in his pocket...sorry.

[Masterofreality]

Remember when a Presidential Candidate said that Antifa was only an “Idea”. And the Mainstream Media never questioned or called him out on it?
Welp. Even Milquetoast Mayor Wheeler of Portland has had enough after New Years Eve riots in Portland that extended the ongoing unrest there for 5 months. Wheeler called Antifa and Leftists out by name, and, get this, asked for Federal assistance in combatting the violence!
Ha!! How rich is that!!!!??? Remember last summer when Trump sent Federal troops into Portland to protect Federal property and the Courthouse? Wheeler and Oregon’s Governor told them to go home and for Trump to pound salt. What a disingenuous idiot.
And also, this is the same dude that last summer moved out of his downtown condo out of fear when Antifa Thugs brought the riot to his neighborhood.
If you want a lesson in how two faced and self serving politicians act, search You Tube for Wheeler’s New Years Day speech. It would be hilarious if not so pitiful.
The left eating the left while the mainstream media refuses to cover it. Pretty typical. But yeah, Trump was the problem, right? #TrumpsAmerica

[bobbiemcgee]

Looks like TrumpsAmerica made another "perfect call" to GA to overturn the election. Moron. #patheticloser

[xubrew]

Donald Trump probably won't die in prison....but he might. Even if the new Justice Department under Biden decides to do nothing, which wouldn't shock me at all if they didn't, the state of New York in particular seems to be anxiously awaiting the day he is no longer in office.

[paulxu]

As the time approaches for inauguration, it appears that the president has become a little unhinged.
Georgia has recounted all the votes 3 times I think, and additionally had a verification of the signatures on mail in ballots done by investigators, with no discrepancies found.

Threatening the Georgia Secretary of State to find ballots to reverse the election results sounds desperate. I actually feel sorry for the SoS as a Republican trying to his job, and getting threatened by the president of the country. Has to be hard. Hopefully this nonsense ceases on Jan 20th.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-georgia-secretary-of-state-raffensperger-hourlong-call-overturn-election-results

[xubrew]

As the time approaches for inauguration, it appears that the president has become a little unhinged.
Georgia has recounted all the votes 3 times I think, and additionally had a verification of the signatures on mail in ballots done by investigators, with no discrepancies found.

Threatening the Georgia Secretary of State to find ballots to reverse the election results sounds desperate. I actually feel sorry for the SoS as a Republican trying to his job, and getting threatened by the president of the country. Has to be hard. Hopefully this nonsense ceases on Jan 20th.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-georgia-secretary-of-state-raffensperger-hourlong-call-overturn-election-results

What are you supposed to say to a mental patient who insists that stop signs are green and that 6+3=12?? And that keeps telling you that you got it all wrong and threatens you with prison when you disagree with him??

He’s unhinged. He’s so full of shit that he’s actually convinced himself that the bullshit isn’t bullshit. Combine that with him possibly sensing that he may lose his freedom once he’s no longer in office and you’ve got an unhinged mental patient.

[X-band '01]

So what happens if he just decides to stay in Florida and not return to DC? Does the state of Florida tell New York to eff off if they want to charge him with state crimes?

[paulxu]

I think he's already back in DC for the "wild" time on the 6th.

[X-band '01]

I think he's already back in DC for the "wild" time on the 6th.

Where tens of people will attend?

[xubrew]

So what happens if he just decides to stay in Florida and not return to DC? Does the state of Florida tell New York to eff off if they want to charge him with state crimes?

Doubtful. I can’t imagine Florida, or anyone else, would want to harbor anyone that’s wanted for crimes in another state. I’m pretty sure they’d scoop him up.

[X-band '01]

And other questions come to mind:

- Does he trash the White House when leaving in a manner similar to some tenants when they're about to be evicted/foreclosed?

- Does the Secret Service still have to protect him once he has a reservation on Rikers Island?

[xubrew]

And other questions come to mind:

- Does he trash the White House when leaving in a manner similar to some tenants when they're about to be evicted/foreclosed?

- Does the Secret Service still have to protect him once he has a reservation on Rikers Island?

That last question is certainly interesting!! Who gets THAT assignment??

[xubrew]

I suppose he could flee the country. If he doesn’t, he will be prosecuted. You can’t watch/listen to this and not conclude that the New York AG has every intention of prosecuting him....

https://twitter.com/captnostradamus/status/1345875757571186689?s=21

[paulxu]

It's probable that a number of election laws were broken by Trump trying to pressure the GA SoS with the phone call to find/change/whatever votes.

More concerning (since the SoS held firm that Trump was getting bad information and the GA election was over and done correctly) is a letter written today by all the living Secretary of Defenses. Dick Cheney (!!) was instrumental in starting the process because of their shared concerns that Trump might try to use the military to remain in power.

The fact they all are that concerned about that possibility is actually frightening. They reminded military people that they owe their allegiance to the Constitution.


Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html

[boozehound]

Has anybody seen the transcript from the Georgia call? Holy shit. I'm glad there is a tape of this. In a normal universe it would change some people's minds on supporting Trump and what is, at this point, essentially an attempted Coup. Not sure it will though.

[GoMuskies]

Here's hoping for a split in the Georgia runoff tomorrow! Remember, divided government is best government!

[boozehound]

Here's hoping for a split in the Georgia runoff tomorrow! Remember, divided government is best government!

I generally agree with this. Right now I kind of want to see the Dems take the Senate for two years though, if only to serve as a rebuke for the whole Trump disaster. I don't want them ramming a bunch of highly liberal legislation through, though (although to be fair I'm not sure how likely that would actually be even if they won Georgia - they still have Joe Manchin and a few others to contend with) so I guess I hope that the Dems win one and the Repubs win to the other.

I think that both seats probably stay Red though. I don't really see Ossoff or Warnock as super strong candidates, although to be fair I don't really think that Loeffler or Purdue are either.

[STL_XUfan]

Has anybody seen the transcript from the Georgia call? Holy shit. I'm glad there is a tape of this. In a normal universe it would change some people's minds on supporting Trump and what is, at this point, essentially an attempted Coup. Not sure it will though.

I listened to the whole hour, it was bat shit. I think my favorite part was when then SOS offered to send Pres. Trump a link to the unedited video and he responds that he doesn't need his link, he has a better link. Just peak Trump.

[paulxu]

Wishful thinking: if the Republicans had got rid of Trump during impeachment, Pence would have been at the helm for the last 11 months.
Somehow I think things might have been handled better with the virus, and with Pence on top of the ticket they may have held on to the White House.
As it is, we have a cluster all around and hard times ahead.
All the norms (like inviting the new person to the White House, good transition support, etc.) have been cast aside.
It's really quite remarkable.

[boozehound]

I listened to the whole hour, it was bat shit. I think my favorite part was when then SOS offered to send Pres. Trump a link to the unedited video and he responds that he doesn't need his link, he has a better link. Just peak Trump.

I literally don't know what to think about people that are still supporting this at this point. They must have absolutely no ability to see things from any perspective other than their own.

Again - imagine if Obama had done any of this shit. These same people would be going absolutely insane.

[xubrew]

I literally don't know what to think about people that are still supporting this at this point. They must have absolutely no ability to see things from any perspective other than their own.

Again - imagine if Obama had done any of this shit. These same people would be going absolutely insane.

The more strongly people believe something (or want to believe it), then the more defensive they will become the more they're shown how wrong they are about it.

I think we are all a little closer to this than what we think. People look at cults and think that there is something wrong with the people who got swept up into it and that it couldn't possibly happen to them. I'm not saying that people don't have the ability to avoid getting swept up into stuff. I'm just saying that it's easier than a lot of us think, and it's harder to walk away from than a lot of us think. I've always said that the easiest people to lie to are those who want to believe the lie, and they then become the hardest people to convey the truth to.

I don't blame people for being caught up in this. But MY GOD take a step back!! The Democrats, and the scientific community, and a few elected republicans, and the entire SCOTUS, and multiple federal judges that he himself appointed, and multiple election officials in multiple states, and multiple postal workers, and the media (including Fox News), and the Secretary of State in Georgia, and God knows who else, ALL conspired against Trump to steal the election!! THAT IS JUST UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!!!

There are many reasons that is impossible. For starters, if the conspiracy was that broad, there would be no need for a conspiracy. It would have to involve so many people that if they just voted against him they'd vote him out. The other is that when as many people hate someone as those who hate Trump, he's going lose.

I get liking Trump. In fact one of the (many) major issues I have with the Left how they don't seem to think it's important to understand why people do like Trump. I get how he can make people who are frustrated with M.O. of the country feel like this is their guy whenever he claps back at the other side. It can feel good to have a strong man leader so long as he's YOUR strong man. But...HE CLEARLY LOST!!!! He's clearly a liar, and a narcissist, and has no respect for the checks and balances that are in place. If you actually think he won the election, then you've been duped the same way members of a cult get duped. You're believing something and fighting for something that is clearly false. Hopefully it does not turn out to be at as great of a risk and expense for people.

[boozehound]

There are many reasons that is impossible. For starters, if the conspiracy was that broad, there would be no need for a conspiracy. It would have to involve so many people that if they just voted against him they'd vote him out. The other is that when as many people hate someone as those who hate Trump, he's going lose.


A lot of good points on the above post. I'm just highlighting this part for brevity - good point. Trump supporters are surprised he lost, but they really shouldn't be. I understand that he defied the polls in 2016, but he was consistently projected to lose in 2020. The final results ended up being pretty close to the projections, I believe. He relatively narrowly flipped a few key states in 2016 and then followed that up with a complete shit show of a Presidency culminating in a massive pandemic raging during the voting period(!) I think that's a recipe for most incumbents to get voted out of office.

Obviously I don't think that the Pandemic was Trump's fault (although I think his response to it has definitely made things worse), but sometimes shit just happens and when it happens on your watch it's hard to get reelected.

He also spent his entire term aggressively antagonizing the left, which backfired when people came out to vote like never before. Voter turnout is the Republicans' worst enemy. The Dems usually have the numbers if they get the turnout, but turning out their voters has consistently been a challenge. Obama understood that, which is how he won twice. Hillary Clinton did not, so she lost. If Trump hadn't made himself so polarizing I think I lot more folks on the left would have stayed home. They weren't excited to vote for Joe Biden, they were excited to vote against Donald Trump.

[X-man]

The more strongly people believe something (or want to believe it), then the more defensive they will become the more they're shown how wrong they are about it.

I think we are all a little closer to this than what we think. People look at cults and think that there is something wrong with the people who got swept up into it and that it couldn't possibly happen to them. I'm not saying that people don't have the ability to avoid getting swept up into stuff. I'm just saying that it's easier than a lot of us think, and it's harder to walk away from than a lot of us think. I've always said that the easiest people to lie to are those who want to believe the lie, and they then become the hardest people to convey the truth to.

I don't blame people for being caught up in this. But MY GOD take a step back!! The Democrats, and the scientific community, and a few elected republicans, and the entire SCOTUS, and multiple federal judges that he himself appointed, and multiple election officials in multiple states, and multiple postal workers, and the media (including Fox News), and the Secretary of State in Georgia, and God knows who else, ALL conspired against Trump to steal the election!! THAT IS JUST UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!!!

There are many reasons that is impossible. For starters, if the conspiracy was that broad, there would be no need for a conspiracy. It would have to involve so many people that if they just voted against him they'd vote him out. The other is that when as many people hate someone as those who hate Trump, he's going lose.

I get liking Trump. In fact one of the (many) major issues I have with the Left how they don't seem to think it's important to understand why people do like Trump. I get how he can make people who are frustrated with M.O. of the country feel like this is their guy whenever he claps back at the other side. It can feel good to have a strong man leader so long as he's YOUR strong man. But...HE CLEARLY LOST!!!! He's clearly a liar, and a narcissist, and has no respect for the checks and balances that are in place. If you actually think he won the election, then you've been duped the same way members of a cult get duped. You're believing something and fighting for something that is clearly false. Hopefully it does not turn out to be at as great of a risk and expense for people.

You just identified the "deep state". The actual definition of the deep state is anyone who doesn't like or support Trump.

[xubrew]

You just identified the "deep state". The actual definition of the deep state is anyone who doesn't like or support Trump.

I guess that would make it substantially deep.

[bjf123]

Can someone on the Left justify this to me? Amen and awoman? Father, Mother, Son Daughter, et.al. no longer allowed in the House? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?!?!?

https://nypost.com/2021/01/04/rep-emanuel-cleaver-closes-congress-opening-prayer-with-amen-and-awoman/


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[paulxu]

When you've been married long enough, you'll understand that "amen" means "so be it."
"Awoman" means "yes dear."

[boozehound]

Can someone on the Left justify this to me? Amen and awoman? Father, Mother, Son Daughter, et.al. no longer allowed in the House? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?!?!?

https://nypost.com/2021/01/04/rep-emanuel-cleaver-closes-congress-opening-prayer-with-amen-and-awoman/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean, I think that's ridiculous. I don't really understand all the gender pronoun stuff, but I also really don't care. I'll call you whatever the hell you want. It doesn't really impact me in any way, and there is a lot of WAY worse shit going on right now that we should probably be focused on. Like the President on tape trying to coerce a State to help him overthrow the election.

[bobbiemcgee]

Can someone on the Left justify this to me? Amen and awoman? Father, Mother, Son Daughter, et.al. no longer allowed in the House? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?!?!?

https://nypost.com/2021/01/04/rep-emanuel-cleaver-closes-congress-opening-prayer-with-amen-and-awoman/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

a asshole. Amen means "so be it", nothing to do with men....or women.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Can someone on the Left justify this to me? Amen and awoman? Father, Mother, Son Daughter, et.al. no longer allowed in the House? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?!?!?

https://nypost.com/2021/01/04/rep-emanuel-cleaver-closes-congress-opening-prayer-with-amen-and-awoman/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The outgoing President just asked the SOS of Georgia to find votes for him. So on the politics front I can see how this is really important right now.

[boozehound]

The outgoing President just asked the SOS of Georgia to find votes for him. So on the politics front I can see how this is really important right now.

It's parallel universes depending on where you get your news from.

WSJ and Fox are basically just ignoring it, while the more radical right wing news sources are actually trying to spin it as somehow justified. NYPost's current headline is that someone named Tanya Roberts has died.

I would love to hear from anyone who doesn't unequivocally think that the tape of Trump trying to pressure Raffersperger into 'finding more votes for him' isn't major news that should be the headlining at every outlet. It should be all we are talking about as a Country and should elicit widespread condemnation. This is bar-none the craziest thing that any of us have probably ever seen politically. At least in America. Credit Raffersperger and his staff for standing firm in the face of all of this.

It's not surprising that Trump's last act is going to be essentially validating the criticisms from everyone who said he was not fit to be President.

[Masterofreality]

The outgoing President just asked the SOS of Georgia to find votes for him. So on the politics front I can see how this is really important right now.

He aksually didn’t if you read the transcript of the entire call, plus he had two attorneys in the room with him so just another example of WaPo putting garbage out to get cash in. Whatever will they do on January 21?
I’ll tell you what they’ll do. Take a 4 year nap in fact checking and covering Dementia Joe.

[Masterofreality]

There was Zero “pressure”. It was a discussion, of course about the way the Presidential count was conducted, but also, I submit, to ensure that Raffensberger would provide proper oversight, and install better procedures to ensure that the Senate elections were properly counted. Why would Trump just pick out Georgia’s SoS to call and not Wisconsin’s if it wasn’t partially about the Senate race.

Trump gives actual numbers of dead people voting, out of state voting, asks why Fulton County won’t be audited, talks about Military Provisional ballots not being counted, and the GA Secretary of State just says “Your numbers are wrong” with zero detail backup and has no idea how many provisional ballots there were because he never checked.
Bottom line, the SoS wasn’t going to indicate his lack of knowledge or incompetence or indict himself.
Strict stonewalling by Raffensberger to protect his reputation. And if Georgia was the determining state that caused Biden to lose, you know that WaPo, CNN, NYTimes and MSNBC would have teams of investigating reporters down there turning over every leaf, like they did when they were trying to install loser Stacy Abrams as Governor.

[GoMuskies]

WSJ and Fox are basically just ignoring it,

Can't speak to Fox, but it was a front-page story on WSJ.

[paulxu]

Suggesting someone might be criminally liable as you pressure him to "find" votes in counts that have been done three times...is probably not something you would think a president should do.
Especially if that pressure violates existing laws on election interference.
But...reasons.

Not that expect any critics would actually listen, but if you want, here is the Georgia election official debunking Trump's claims, one by one. And this guy is going to vote Republican and is encouraged others to do the same. But he's apparently had enough of the lies and bullshit the president continues to spew...and conned people continue to believe.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/04/gabe-sterling-entire-debunks-trump-georgia-election-claims-sot-vpx.cnn

[X-man]

Suggesting someone might be criminally liable as you pressure him to "find" votes in counts that have been done three times...is probably not something you would think a president should do.
Especially if that pressure violates existing laws on election interference.
But...reasons.

Not that expect any critics would actually listen, but if you want, here is the Georgia election official debunking Trump's claims, one by one. And this guy is going to vote Republican and is encouraged others to do the same. But he's apparently had enough of the lies and bullshit the president continues to spew...and conned people continue to believe.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/04/gabe-sterling-entire-debunks-trump-georgia-election-claims-sot-vpx.cnn

MOR is a lost cause. Time to put him on "Ignore".

[boozehound]

Can't speak to Fox, but it was a front-page story on WSJ.

I must have missed that. I'm a subscriber (online only) and probably check it several times a day, so it might not have been up super long. In general WSJ is my preferred news source these days, although I read WaPo as well.

This seems (to me) like a 'stop the presses' kind of big deal, that I would expect to dominate the news cycle. I get that Trump has done so much crazy shit to date that it dulls the impact of something like this, but if you consider it in a vacuum (i.e. what if George W Bush had done this, for example) it seems like something that all Americans should be pretty outraged about.

[bjf123]

The outgoing President just asked the SOS of Georgia to find votes for him. So on the politics front I can see how this is really important right now.

The point I’m trying to make, apparently without much success, is that this is the kind of politically correct BS we can look forward to having shoved down our throats for at least the next two years. Where does it end?

As to the call with GA, did Trump ask him to create illegal votes, or find uncounted legally cast votes? Big difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

As to the call with GA, did Trump ask him to create illegal votes, or find uncounted legally cast votes? Big difference.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a fair question. But as they had counted, re-counted, and then re-counted again all the votes they had...the answer leans more to the former than the latter.

Also, asking someone to "recalculate" sounds more like fixing than finding.

[boozehound]

The point I’m trying to make, apparently without much success, is that this is the kind of politically correct BS we can look forward to having shoved down our throats for at least the next two years. Where does it end?

As to the call with GA, did Trump ask him to create illegal votes, or find uncounted legally cast votes? Big difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who cares, though? How is it being shoved down your throat? Some dude said some ridiculous shit at a meeting you weren't at. It really has no consequence other than just being stupid. The only person shoving it down your throat in this case would seem to be the NY Post, otherwise you wouldn't even know about it.

I just want to make sure I'm keeping score accurately here. You are very worried about having 'politically correct BS shoved down your throat' for the next two years, but seemingly way less worried about Trump's batshit crazy phone call so long as trump didn't specifically ask him to 'create illegal votes'? Big difference? Are you actually seriously drawing that distinction?

That phone call was a complete mess for so many reasons. First of all, you had the President calling a state official to try to change the results. After they had been counted several times. And adjudicated in the courts. Should this just the the new normal? What happens next election? Does this road lead us to a place we really want to go as a Nation?

Share with me your interpretation of that call that doesn't make it a flagrant abuse of power (at best).

[boozehound]

That's a fair question. But as they had counted, re-counted, and then re-counted again all the votes they had...the answer leans more to the former than the latter.

Also, asking someone to "recalculate" sounds more like fixing than finding.

I don't really think it is a fair question. I think it's a spurious distinction drawn to avoid having to face the reality of who Trump is and what he is doing. The fact that he is even having the call at this point after the results have been repeatedly tallied and investigated is a big problem. The only evidence they have is that 'lots of people believe there was fraud'. No shit. You spent the last 3 months convincing them of that.

If our standard for something like that being improper is that he literally has to say "I, Donald J Trump, hereby ask you to create illegal ballots", then we are super duper fucked as a Nation. At this point, even if the tape had contained that exact verbiage I'm sure he would just just been joking or something.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

[X-band '01]

So when is Trump going to start appointing cabinet members for his "second" term?

I am looking forward to seeing some quack offering him the oath of office and an Inaugural Address in front of Proud Boys. After all, he won!

[STL_XUfan]

I must have missed that. I'm a subscriber (online only) and probably check it several times a day, so it might not have been up super long. In general WSJ is my preferred news source these days, although I read WaPo as well.

This seems (to me) like a 'stop the presses' kind of big deal, that I would expect to dominate the news cycle. I get that Trump has done so much crazy shit to date that it dulls the impact of something like this, but if you consider it in a vacuum (i.e. what if George W Bush had done this, for example) it seems like something that all Americans should be pretty outraged about.

I do love how our minds work, the fact that this was a leaked phone call makes it seems way more incriminating, when he is saying the exact same illegal crap on twitter. We have developed some sort of weird immunity that if you announce your crimes publicly then they cannot be crimes.

I have begun to reference Trump as the Nelly president because he "is just kidding like jason, unless you gonna do it."

[boozehound]

I do love how our minds work, the fact that this was a leaked phone call makes it seems way more incriminating, when he is saying the exact same illegal crap on twitter. We have developed some sort of weird immunity that if you announce your crimes publicly then they cannot be crimes.

I have begun to reference Trump as the Nelly president because he "is just kidding like jason, unless you gonna do it."

It's the craziest / stupidest collection of events I have ever seen, and is basically a cult at this point. Just try to imagine any prior President doing this. You can't, and if they did I'm sure there would have been widespread condemnation.

I can't see conservatives supporting George Bush, for example, if he tried to pull this shit.

[Masterofreality]

Suggesting someone might be criminally liable as you pressure him to "find" votes in counts that have been done three times...is probably not something you would think a president should do.
Especially if that pressure violates existing laws on election interference.
But...reasons.

Not that expect any critics would actually listen, but if you want, here is the Georgia election official debunking Trump's claims, one by one. And this guy is going to vote Republican and is encouraged others to do the same. But he's apparently had enough of the lies and bullshit the president continues to spew...and conned people continue to believe.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/04/gabe-sterling-entire-debunks-trump-georgia-election-claims-sot-vpx.cnn


MOR is a lost cause. Time to put him on "Ignore".

Uh, yeah. A report on CNN that interviews a Georgia Election official that, of course, will defend to the hilt their vote counting procedure, since his job would be on the line if it was inadequate? Verrrrrry believeable. This from the same Network that flatly claimed that Trump saying a vaccine for Corona would be available by year's end was 'A Lie" and the same network that actively ignored Antifa Riots in Portland until Milquetoast Wheeler finally turned tail and admittted that Leftist Anarchists and Antifa were the cause. CNN has torched any credibility they have, but yeah Chris Cuomo. Just keep propping your brother who has done a miserable job in handling the virus in New York and now he's fiddling with vaccination distribution.

How about rather than just dumping on Trump, although I think his arguments have little merit, the MSM actually does their job and aggressively investigate whether the election was handled correctly like they did when Abrams lost? A double standard much? 50% of the American public believes that the election had major problems. That is half the country. It would seem that the media would want to try to investigate to calm fears rather than stirring up crap for ratings. But, nah.

And good. Just ignore me while your country is going to hell in a handbasket. Pray to God that either Purdue or Loeffler wins today. Or you will reap the chaos you sow. PLEASE ignore me so I don't have to answer your cheap shot crap.

[bobbiemcgee]

Glad to get rid of trump and his minions. Consider the openings on every news broadcast (except for the no news just radical conspriracy theories opinions ) for the last 4+ years.
trump today said "blah, blah, blah..."
Announcer; "Of course, after checking all the facts, we would have to say the he is not telling the truth...."

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.indy100.com/news/jimmy-kimmel-trump-golf-video-b1782487

[Mrs. Garrett]

Uh, yeah. A report on CNN that interviews a Georgia Election official that, of course, will defend to the hilt their vote counting procedure, since his job would be on the line if it was inadequate? Verrrrrry believeable. This from the same Network that flatly claimed that Trump saying a vaccine for Corona would be available by year's end was 'A Lie" and the same network that actively ignored Antifa Riots in Portland until Milquetoast Wheeler finally turned tail and admittted that Leftist Anarchists and Antifa were the cause. CNN has torched any credibility they have, but yeah Chris Cuomo. Just keep propping your brother who has done a miserable job in handling the virus in New York and now he's fiddling with vaccination distribution.

How about rather than just dumping on Trump, although I think his arguments have little merit, the MSM actually does their job and aggressively investigate whether the election was handled correctly like they did when Abrams lost? A double standard much? 50% of the American public believes that the election had major problems. That is half the country. It would seem that the media would want to try to investigate to calm fears rather than stirring up crap for ratings. But, nah.

And good. Just ignore me while your country is going to hell in a handbasket. Pray to God that either Purdue or Loeffler wins today. Or you will reap the chaos you sow. PLEASE ignore me so I don't have to answer your cheap shot crap.

This country has gone hell since January 2017, the day your hero was inaugurated.

[Xville]

This country has gone hell since January 2017, the day your hero was inaugurated.

First three years country was doing great, the last year was a shit show though...some trump's fault, some pandemic and some our loser participation trophy amd everyone please kiss my ass society

[Masterofreality]

This country has gone hell since January 2017, the day your hero was inaugurated.

If no wars, no new wars, shutting down ISIS, foreign policy wins with Middle East peace deals, the lowest Minority Unemployment Rate in history, a 3.5% overall unemployment rate prior pandemic, getting a vaccine to the public within 10 months after the outbreak of a pandemic and putting more money into the pockets of American Citizens is “Going to Hell”, I don’t want to see the alternative.

[boozehound]

First three years country was doing great, the last year was a shit show though...some trump's fault, some pandemic and some our loser participation trophy amd everyone please kiss my ass society

I think what we basically saw was that the Country can basically run on autopilot for a while without a captain. It probably would have been fine and maybe Trump would even have been reelected if the Pandemic hadn't happened. The problem for Trump is that crisis exposes poor leadership almost every time.

I also don't completely buy the 'prosperity' of the first 3 years of Trump. The budget deficit was 3.1% of GDP when Trump took office. It was 4.8% in 2020 without factoring in COVID-19 impact. That's a pretty healthy increase. You can have a great time for a while living on debt, and things can look pretty good. Eventually the rent comes due. It was fine. Certainly not bad. The stock market did well, which I enjoyed but probably impacted a relatively small portion of the population.

For all the shit people gave Obama about spending the budget deficit as a % of GDP was around 3% when he took office and around 3% when he left - although a Republican Senate helped that quite a bit.

[Masterofreality]

I think what we basically saw was that the Country can basically run on autopilot for a while without a captain. It probably would have been fine and maybe Trump would even have been reelected if the Pandemic hadn't happened. The problem for Trump is that crisis exposes poor leadership almost every time.

You want autopilot? How about the House Dems for the last 2 years pursuing false Russian conspiracies and Ukraine impeachment with zero cause or evidence while doing zero to approve and improve the People’s Business. But Awomen tho

[boozehound]

You want autopilot? How about the House Dems for the last 2 years pursuing false Russian conspiracies and Ukraine impeachment with zero cause or evidence while doing zero to approve and improve the People’s Business. But Awomen tho

I don't even know what this means. Also I pretty much categorically have no respect for the House of Representatives on either side as I think they are all a complete bunch of jackoffs.

[94GRAD]

I don't even know what this means. Also I pretty much categorically have no respect for the House of Representatives on either side as I think they are all a complete bunch of jackoffs.

Google Amen and Awomen

[xuwillie]

Google Amen and Awomen

Holy hell have we become a bunch of pus***s. Next 4 years might be more interesting and annoying than Trumps presidency.

[paulxu]

When the president of your country has over 30,000 documented lies in 4 years, is it any wonder such a large number of people are fooled?
It's an incredible microphone that office has, and now he has news networks willing to parrot it all back in an echo chamber on the right.

When people with Jesuit educations are asked to follow and defend someone who looks at two crowd pictures and swears his is bigger, and send his press secretary out to repeat the absurdity, we have lots of challenges ahead.

[GoMuskies]

The WaPo is a clown newspaper, bro.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/05/kenosha-police-charges-jacob-blake/

"Blake, who witnesses said had been trying to break up an argument between two women, was unarmed and shot as he walked back toward his vehicle."

[Masterofreality]

When the president of your country has over 30,000 documented lies in 4 years, is it any wonder such a large number of people are fooled?
It's an incredible microphone that office has, and now he has news networks willing to parrot it all back in an echo chamber on the right.

When people with Jesuit educations are asked to follow and defend someone who looks at two crowd pictures and swears his is bigger, and send his press secretary out to repeat the absurdity, we have lots of challenges ahead.

Actions speak louder than words. Especially words that are interpreted by biased hacks without context.

[Masterofreality]

The WaPo is a clown newspaper, bro.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/05/kenosha-police-charges-jacob-blake/

"Blake, who witnesses said had been trying to break up an argument between two women, was unarmed and shot as he walked back toward his vehicle."

No mention, not one, of Blake abusing his woman. Plus Blake admitted in court he had a knife. No mention of that either.
But *some continue to insist it’s a credible newspaper. ClownRag

[Xville]

The WaPo is a clown newspaper, bro.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/05/kenosha-police-charges-jacob-blake/

"Blake, who witnesses said had been trying to break up an argument between two women, was unarmed and shot as he walked back toward his vehicle."

What a joke. What a slanted piece of junk disguised as journalism....I dunno who lies more, our slanted newspapers or are our slanted government. . Glad hes paralyzed.. karma is a bitch and I hope he rots.

[paulxu]

Donald Trump will not be allowed to visit Scotland to play golf during Joe Biden's inauguration, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

The US president, who was overwhelmingly defeated in November's election, is reportedly considering travelling to his Turnberry golf resort to avoid Mr Biden being sworn into office.

But Scotland's first minister stressed it is illegal to travel in or out of the country without a valid reason and said: "Coming to play golf is not what I would consider to be an essential purpose."

Yes, but Trump spent roughly 1 out of his 4 years at a golf course. So, maybe it is essential?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trump-biden-inauguration-scotland-sturgeon-lockdown-b1782602.html

[Masterofreality]

Yes, but Trump spent roughly 1 out of his 4 years at a golf course. So, maybe it is essential?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trump-biden-inauguration-scotland-sturgeon-lockdown-b1782602.html

Time to get a new pony to ride Paul.
Your one trick is up. Find a new topic to obsess over.

[bobbiemcgee]

What a joke. What a slanted piece of junk disguised as journalism....I dunno who lies more, our slanted newspapers or are our slanted government. . Glad hes paralyzed.. karma is a bitch and I hope he rots.

He brought a knife to a gun fight. Never a wise move.

[Xville]

Looks like we are gonna have a split government...thank gawd

[STL_XUfan]

Looks like we are gonna have a split government...thank gawd
What projections are you looking at? Asking honestly. All of the ones I am seeing are saying once DeKalb results are dropped that the Warnock race is over and that Ossoff is the likely winner but within recount range.

[Masterofreality]

Looks like we are gonna have a split government...thank gawd

No we will not. The country is f#%ked. Good job Georgia. You just elected an Anti-Semite and anti white racist to be a Senator. And a vacuous, China sympathizer to the other. Damn I’m glad we moved back to Ohio from there 35 years ago.
Venezuela, here we come.
If you thought we were having an Existential Threat, just wait for the next two years.
And how interesting that Again Dekalb County has a delay in reporting their results plus an issue with their scanning machines.

[paulxu]

Time to get a new pony to ride Paul.
Your one trick is up. Find a new topic to obsess over.

I'm very interested in our national government. And very glad that the 3rd grade bully will no longer be part of it.
I just hope he doesn't create a lot of mayhem on his way out the door. He's still trying to get the VP to overturn the election. Crazy stuff.

[Xville]

Yeah nevermind....we are fucked

[Masterofreality]

I'm very interested in our national government. And very glad that the 3rd grade bully will no longer be part of it.
I just hope he doesn't create a lot of mayhem on his way out the door. He's still trying to get the VP to overturn the election. Crazy stuff.

Move on Paul. Your continued screeds are tiresome.
What’s your group gonna do?

[paulxu]

Hopefully pass some of the legislation McConnell has blocked for 4 years and re-establish relations with our allies.

[Masterofreality]

Hopefully pass some of the legislation McConnell has blocked for 4 years and re-establish relations with our allies.

And what “Legislation” is that?
Police Defunding?
Tax increases?
Critical Race theory for schools?
Sticking taxes back on businesses sending jobs back overseas?
Crushing environmental regulations on business?
Are China and Iran allies? Yeah, let’s get in bed with Regimes who repress Human Rights.
As to our “traditional” allies, are we going to stop requiring them to pay their fair share of NATO?
Are the Mideast Peace deals that have been negotiated by our “traditional ally” Israel going to be abandoned to force the discredited two state solution?
Oh, yeah! Sounds like paradise.

[bobbiemcgee]

And how interesting that Again Dekalb County has a delay in reporting their results plus an issue with their scanning machines.

Typical pub bs. 150 unamerican congress members will argue today that 8 million gremlins showed up across the country with black sharpies and changed votes from trump to biden on the SAME BALLOT that gave them their votes to be in Congress. Talk about STUPID!! ARRGHH!

[boozehound]

Yeah nevermind....we are fucked

I don't think it will be as bad as people fear it might. There is still Joe Manchin, and Biden isn't a crazy radical by any means. We just need to hope he stays healthy, because I don't love the prospect of a President Kamala Harris with control of Congress.

I think we will see a return to Obama-era policy with a rollback of the Trump tax cuts for $400K+ earners. It will allow Biden to confirm his cabinet. Probably no supreme court seats coming up in the next 4 years, but who knows.

It's a likely 4 years of Democratic Senate control though - The Dems are only defending 13 seats in 2022 vs 21 for the Republicans. That flips in 2024 when the Dems defend 21 seats to the Republicans' 10 seats.

I think this could be a great opportunity for Biden, should he take it, to be a unifier. Don't be a dick about the fact that you control government and don't try to ram too much policy down Republicans' throats. Work across the aisle and attack the issues that all Americans care about. I realize that this is a probably a pipe dream.

[Xville]

I don't think it will be as bad as people fear it might. There is still Joe Manchin, and Biden isn't a crazy radical by any means. We just need to hope he stays healthy, because I don't love the prospect of a President Kamala Harris with control of Congress.

I think we will see a return to Obama-era policy with a rollback of the Trump tax cuts for $400K+ earners. It will allow Biden to confirm his cabinet. Probably no supreme court seats coming up in the next 4 years, but who knows.

It's a likely 4 years of Democratic Senate control though - The Dems are only defending 13 seats in 2022 vs 21 for the Republicans. That flips in 2024 when the Dems defend 21 seats to the Republicans' 10 seats.

I think this could be a great opportunity for Biden, should he take it, to be a unifier. Don't be a dick about the fact that you control government and don't try to ram too much policy down Republicans' throats. Work across the aisle and attack the issues that all Americans care about. I realize that this is a probably a pipe dream.

If this were twenty years ago, I'd feel a positive outlook as you noted here. However, there are so many members of congress that are on the extreme sides of the aisle that I just don't see America getting back to what it used to be. Our government needs a major overhaul from term limits, to getting lobbyists out of Washington and local influences, to the insane amount of dollars being spent every election cycle.

[boozehound]

If this were twenty years ago, I'd feel a positive outlook as you noted here. However, there are so many members of congress that are on the extreme sides of the aisle that I just don't see America getting back to what it used to be. Our government needs a major overhaul from term limits, to getting lobbyists out of Washington and local influences, to the insane amount of dollars being spent every election cycle.

100% agree. The failure to enact campaign finance reform coupled with the Citizens United decision set us in a bad direction. The growth of 24 hour 'news' took us further down that path. Then Social Media turbocharged it and got it hooked on crystal meth.

Still - Biden is in a unique position and is (hopefully) kind of a throwback. I also don't think he's worried about re-election, which could end up being a good thing. He has the narrowest of margins in the Senate, which means he can't just do whatever he wants. The crazies on the left are already pissed at him because he is assembling a reasonably centrist cabinet. I think there's a chance. Republicans should be willing to work with him since they won't have the majority.

On the positive side, I really hope that this squashes the whole Trump-branded Populist movement that is radicalizing much of the right.

[Masterofreality]

I don't think it will be as bad as people fear it might. There is still Joe Manchin, and Biden isn't a crazy radical by any means. We just need to hope he stays healthy, because I don't love the prospect of a President Kamala Harris with control of Congress.

I think we will see a return to Obama-era policy with a rollback of the Trump tax cuts for $400K+ earners. It will allow Biden to confirm his cabinet. Probably no supreme court seats coming up in the next 4 years, but who knows.

It's a likely 4 years of Democratic Senate control though - The Dems are only defending 13 seats in 2022 vs 21 for the Republicans. That flips in 2024 when the Dems defend 21 seats to the Republicans' 10 seats.

I think this could be a great opportunity for Biden, should he take it, to be a unifier. Don't be a dick about the fact that you control government and don't try to ram too much policy down Republicans' throats. Work across the aisle and attack the issues that all Americans care about. I realize that this is a probably a pipe dream.

There’s a reason why “Most Liberal Senator” Harris was put on the ticket. Biden is a Potemkin President. He’ll be a puppet and Harris will soon assume the Presidency. We are fucked. There is no desire from anyone on the left to “work accross the aisle. Court packing and Filibuster removal will soon become reality. Not to mention “Free Public College” which will decimate our school Xavier.
The “great reset” is now in full force. Just wait & see.

[Smails]

It's an incredible microphone that office has, and now he has news networks willing to parrot it all back in an echo chamber on the right.



You lecturing anyone on anything that has to deal with an echo chamber is laughable at best and tone-deaf lacking complete self awareness at worst.

[paulxu]

Since I listen/watch/read all the different inputs, it's possible that I am getting a good amount of input; if that makes me "tone-deaf" that perhaps you could suggest a different approach?

There is a large rally going on now in DC, and the president is going to speak to them. Rather than help a good transition, he continues to spew false narratives after 60+ courts have thrown out the bogus challenges. He is making us look like a tinpot dictatorship that doesn't respect its own rules. I suspect they'll march to the Capital and try to disrupt the proceedings. Hopefully he won't encourage violence since the crowd doesn't seem to be grounded in the reality of our election results.

[Masterofreality]

Since I listen/watch/read all the different inputs, it's possible that I am getting a good amount of input; if that makes me "tone-deaf" that perhaps you could suggest a different approach?

There is a large rally going on now in DC, and the president is going to speak to them. Rather than help a good transition, he continues to spew false narratives after 60+ courts have thrown out the bogus challenges. He is making us look like a tinpot dictatorship that doesn't respect its own rules. I suspect they'll march to the Capital and try to disrupt the proceedings. Hopefully he won't encourage violence since the crowd doesn't seem to be grounded in the reality of our election results.

Once again...about the current soon to be gone, President.
Look forward Paul. The entire country is about to become the Cuyahoga Socialist State that, I’m sure, everyone loves!!
That’s why everyone wants to move up here, right?

[xubrew]

The Republicans lost senate seats in Arizona and Georgia. Think about that for a second. I think it's important to understand why. Don't be like the Democrats and ignore the fact that a lot of the reasons that happened was because of things they did to themselves.

I don't think this happens if they don't rush to fill the SCOTUS seat. That's not the only thing in play here, but just not doing that would have probably let the GOP hold on to the senate, and perhaps even pick up a few seats. It's probably 53-47 or 54-46 without that stunt. It's possible/probable that Georgia doesn't even go to a runoff. When you pull a stunt like that and basically give someone the finger, expect a response. Well, here it is. The Left mobilized in a way that they probably wouldn't have had that not happened. Again, that's just one thing, but I think it is one thing that led us to where we are now. The rallying cry became "GET MCCONNELL OUT!!" And, they did (sort of).

[GoMuskies]

Meh, I think they lost mostly because Trump is a complete buffoon who basically spent the last two months actively damaging the two Republican senators' campaigns with his idiocy. Other than President, the November election (which happened after the Supreme Court nomination) was actually a rousing success for Republicans.

[Xville]

Meh, I think they lost mostly because Trump is a complete buffoon who basically spent the last two months actively damaging the two Republican senators' campaigns with his idiocy. Other than President, the November election (which happened after the Supreme Court nomination) was actually a rousing success for Republicans.

Yep, that and it's just a changing demo in both states, it happens. California within the next decade is probably going to turn red, and texas will probably turn blue. It has little to do with packing the courts...doubt most voters can even name a supreme court justice, let alone care. The left just saw an opportunity and mobilized, would have happened regardless

[paulxu]

Meh, I think they lost mostly because Trump is a complete buffoon who basically spent the last two months actively damaging the two Republican senators' campaigns with his idiocy.

I'm inclined to think you are correct. Curiously, some people in my progressive echo chamber agree with you also:

In the conservative National Review: "The Trump Era Ends in Disaster in Georgia"

In the conservative Washington Examiner: "Trump and his Enablers Stole the Georgia Elections from Republicans"

In The American Conservative: "Trump Costs GOP The Senate"

Then, of course, is the accurate forecast from my own Senator, who has spent the last 4 years becoming a complete sycophant so he could golf with the President:

Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
·
May 3, 2016
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it.

[boozehound]

The Republicans lost senate seats in Arizona and Georgia. Think about that for a second. I think it's important to understand why. Don't be like the Democrats and ignore the fact that a lot of the reasons that happened was because of things they did to themselves.

I don't think this happens if they don't rush to fill the SCOTUS seat. That's not the only thing in play here, but just not doing that would have probably let the GOP hold on to the senate, and perhaps even pick up a few seats. It's probably 53-47 or 54-46 without that stunt. It's possible/probable that Georgia doesn't even go to a runoff. When you pull a stunt like that and basically give someone the finger, expect a response. Well, here it is. The Left mobilized in a way that they probably wouldn't have had that not happened. Again, that's just one thing, but I think it is one thing that led us to where we are now. The rallying cry became "GET MCCONNELL OUT!!" And, they did (sort of).

I think it's a referendum on Trump. Plain and simple. The Supreme Court might have influenced a few people to get out and vote, but it's really all about Trump's behavior the last two months. Which has been completely, balls-to-the-wall insane.

It's also the ultimate 'lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas' scenario for Republicans. They kissed this lunatic's ass for 4 years while he insulted them (and in some instances their family). Shocking numbers of them continued to follow him even after he lost and was essentially trying to tear down our Republic. McConnell saw it at the end, but he couldn't get the party in line. They also courted a new group of crazy and (as it turn out) unreliable voters that were responding more to Trump as a strongman than they were to actual Conservative ideals.

I actually think / hope that this was a good thing for our Democracy long term. The absolute worst thing that can happen to America, IMO, is for the losing party to start challenging the legitimacy of every election. Set up secure election processes, audit them, and be done with it. Trump's behavior needed to have consequences. Now it does.

[xubrew]

Meh, I think they lost mostly because Trump is a complete buffoon who basically spent the last two months actively damaging the two Republican senators' campaigns with his idiocy. Other than President, the November election (which happened after the Supreme Court nomination) was actually a rousing success for Republicans.

Yunno.....I think you're right.

This is much better put than what I said.

[boozehound]

There’s a reason why “Most Liberal Senator” Harris was put on the ticket. Biden is a Potemkin President. He’ll be a puppet and Harris will soon assume the Presidency. We are fucked. There is no desire from anyone on the left to “work accross the aisle. Court packing and Filibuster removal will soon become reality. Not to mention “Free Public College” which will decimate our school Xavier.
The “great reset” is now in full force. Just wait & see.

Deep breaths.

First of all, nobody is removing the filibuster - Manchin has already said he won't support it, and I don't think he is the only one that wouldn't if it actually came to a vote (which I don't think it will). I haven't seen or heard much from Harris, and most of Biden's cabinet looks like a Biden cabinet, not a Harris cabinet. I see nothing to suggest your 'apocalyptic' scenario in which Biden is just some kind of front for a Harris presidency. It seems much more like Harris was put on the ticket to pander to the left than it does that she is the really mastermind. Unless that's just what they want us to think...

The only things they are likely to do are things that they can accomplish via reconciliation, similar to Trump's first two years.

[GoMuskies]

And the Republican party is pretty well fucked, by the way. They were fucked 4 years ago, but Trump winning the election covered it up for a while. I feel like people taking about Republicans kissing Trump's ass and enabling him and coddling him completely forget what happened four years ago. The Republican party wanted absolutely nothing to do with Donald Trump. He was an uninvited trespasser in their primary, and wave after wave of awful Republican candidates took him on in the primary. And he kicked all of their asses. Embarrassingly. So they really had no choice. The people (the voters) had spoken. The Republicans either had to stand with Trump or completely lose the support of their voters. A true Sophie's choice, it turns out, but a pretty easy one at the time for people who like power. Trump was their only way to keep power. No Trump, no power.

But Trump isn't about to let the Republicans have his cult follower voters now that he's out. He's burning that shit down and taking it all with him. And without the Trump voters, the Republican party has no chance on a national level. Imagine Bernie Sanders and AOC telling their supporters not to support the Democrats. Well, they're shitty people with terrible ideas, but they're not monsters. Trump kind of is.

Luckily, the Democrats will fuck up like they always do and find a way to give some power back to Republicans. Could be two years, four years or six years, but it will inevitably happen. Then we'll get back to good old divided government where no one can break anything too completely.

[boozehound]

That's a really good point about the Republican field in 2016, and not one that I had considered recently. I wonder if Trump will double-fuck them by running as an independent in 2024. That way he could still have his rallies.

[noteggs]

Bernie Sanders may become the next Chair of the Budget Committee. Let that sink in for a minute.

[paulxu]

That's a really good point about the Republican field in 2016, and not one that I had considered recently. I wonder if Trump will double-fuck them by running as an independent in 2024. That way he could still have his rallies.

I think it's much more likely that he fades from the scene, especially given the legal troubles he's likely to face.
More likely is that some Republicans who are more stable will appeal to that base (maybe by saying they supported him during this crazy time) and will rise up to harness that energy...not the least by exhibiting a rational approach to the country's challenges and the necessity of good government.

[Xville]

Hopefully Larry Hogan runs in 24 and actually gets the nomination. That would be way too sensible and centrist though, instead the RNC will probably have people like Pence, Trump and some other nutjobs as candidates.

[bjf123]

I think this could bode well for the Republicans in two years. I fully expect the Democrats to raise taxes on businesses. What will they do? Cut costs to keep their bottom line the same. Easiest place to cut costs? Headcount. We’ll see an uptick in unemployment and a slowdown of the economy.

What I’m really anxious to see is if they raise personal income taxes to make the rich pay their still undefined “fair share”. That’s been a claim from the Left for a long time. Here’s your chance. You had a shot during Obama’s first two years and didn’t do it then. Maybe you have the intestinal fortitude this time?

I also won’t be surprised to see them try to get DC and Puerto Rica as states to get 4 more Democratic Senators in place. I don’t think they’ll try to pack the Supreme Court. That’s a rabbit hole no one wants to go down.

As someone else said, I don’t think Biden will try to go too far left and Joe Manchin will also be the voice of reason to keep them from going crazy. We’ll soon find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boozehound]

I think this could bode well for the Republicans in two years. I fully expect the Democrats to raise taxes on businesses. What will they do? Cut costs to keep their bottom line the same. Easiest place to cut costs? Headcount. We’ll see an uptick in unemployment and a slowdown of the economy.

What I’m really anxious to see is if they raise personal income taxes to make the rich pay their still undefined “fair share”. That’s been a claim from the Left for a long time. Here’s your chance. You had a shot during Obama’s first two years and didn’t do it then. Maybe you have the intestinal fortitude this time?

I also won’t be surprised to see them try to get DC and Puerto Rica as states to get 4 more Democratic Senators in place. I don’t think they’ll try to pack the Supreme Court. That’s a rabbit hole no one wants to go down.

As someone else said, I don’t think Biden will try to go too far left and Joe Manchin will also be the voice of reason to keep them from going crazy. We’ll soon find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are talking about raising taxes on people who make more than $400K per year, I believe everyone under that will see no increase. They may substantially raise taxes on ultra-high earners which I'm frankly OK with and don't think will hurt the economy at all. Jeff Bezos getting taxed an extra 10% won't change shit for him.

I also don't think they will raise corporate taxes, and least not for a while. Businesses are going to be recovering from COVID for at least the next 2 years, I think, which will be their rationale for holding the corporate tax cuts.

They'll just keep the tax cuts and deficit spend on the programs they want to put in place.

[Masterofreality]

Meh, I think they lost mostly because Trump is a complete buffoon who basically spent the last two months actively damaging the two Republican senators' campaigns with his idiocy. Other than President, the November election (which happened after the Supreme Court nomination) was actually a rousing success for Republicans.

Agree 100%. A Nacissistic A-Hole.
Too bad good policy got lost in the drama.

[Masterofreality]

Deep breaths.

First of all, nobody is removing the filibuster - Manchin has already said he won't support it, and I don't think he is the only one that wouldn't if it actually came to a vote (which I don't think it will). I haven't seen or heard much from Harris, and most of Biden's cabinet looks like a Biden cabinet, not a Harris cabinet. I see nothing to suggest your 'apocalyptic' scenario in which Biden is just some kind of front for a Harris presidency. It seems much more like Harris was put on the ticket to pander to the left than it does that she is the really mastermind. Unless that's just what they want us to think...

The only things they are likely to do are things that they can accomplish via reconciliation, similar to Trump's first two years.

Reasonable take. We can only hope you are correct.
If the Left tries to over legislate, the same thing will happen to Dems that happened in 2010. They'll lose the House big time.

[Masterofreality]

And the Republican party is pretty well fucked, by the way. They were fucked 4 years ago, but Trump winning the election covered it up for a while. I feel like people taking about Republicans kissing Trump's ass and enabling him and coddling him completely forget what happened four years ago. The Republican party wanted absolutely nothing to do with Donald Trump. He was an uninvited trespasser in their primary, and wave after wave of awful Republican candidates took him on in the primary. And he kicked all of their asses. Embarrassingly. So they really had no choice. The people (the voters) had spoken. The Republicans either had to stand with Trump or completely lose the support of their voters. A true Sophie's choice, it turns out, but a pretty easy one at the time for people who like power. Trump was their only way to keep power. No Trump, no power.

But Trump isn't about to let the Republicans have his cult follower voters now that he's out. He's burning that shit down and taking it all with him. And without the Trump voters, the Republican party has no chance on a national level. Imagine Bernie Sanders and AOC telling their supporters not to support the Democrats. Well, they're shitty people with terrible ideas, but they're not monsters. Trump kind of is.

Luckily, the Democrats will fuck up like they always do and find a way to give some power back to Republicans. Could be two years, four years or six years, but it will inevitably happen. Then we'll get back to good old divided government where no one can break anything too completely.

Actually, I think that the Repubs have a decent roster of reasonable candidates: Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, and the elephant in the room who is doing a great job, by the way, with the pandemic- Ron DeSantis. He's 1000 times handling it better than Cuomo.
And all of those candidates are fresh with little Trump legacy behind them, plus they are diverse- big time. It's a lot better roster than Obama left behind. That cupboard was bare- other than recycled Hillary.