Politics Thread

[boozehound]

Brew, I've got to disagree.
The basic premise of Mahr's video is that Democrats are somehow responsible for what the far left comes up with.
Defund the police is a great example; Dem leaders don't espouse or support that. But somehow they are responsible for it. Then when the far right comes up with its nonsense, why shouldn't Republicans be saddled with it?
Yet they get a pass. "There are good people on both sides."
The Stop the Count is from Roger Stone 4 years ago. Fermented on the web through Bannon and Breitbart, and resulting in millions not trusting our process.
And Republicans, in office, support it...including the president.

Your point carries "both sideism" way to far.
I haven't delved into your friends situation in Florida. If he has the ability to organize statistics, that shouldn't be anyone's problem if that's all he does.
But you wouldn't get on a commercial 747 and have a guy take the controls who never flew a plane.
There needs to be some requirement of proficiency to give a guy a job.

I think that the Bill Mahr video is spot on - Democrats have a lot of unlikeable people and behaviors associated with their party. While they haven't necessarily always embraced it, they haven't condemned it. I'm sure they are trying to walk a line between getting the voter turnout from the 'woke folks' and not turning off Middle America, but it isn't working. Messaging is reality, in many instances. Whether Democratic Leadership espouses the 'defund the Police' movement or not, they became associated with it. Same with Socialism and tax increases. Same with rioters is Portland and Antifa.

The Republicans do a fantastic job of marching in step with each other and carrying (mostly) the same message - notwithstanding some of the fringe alt-right nuts. They have guys making $60K a year who are absolutely berserk about the possibility of a minor tax increase on incomes above $400K. They have people who are literally reliant on government assistance voting to reduce the government assistance that they rely on to live (my Wife's Uncle is one of them).

The Republicans also have a great 'lifestyle brand' that appeals to a wide swath of their followers, and doesn't alienate the ones that it doesn't appeal to. If you like God, Guns, and low taxes with limited government the Republican party is your party. They are also the party of nostalgia vs. change, and change scares people (especially older people). As long as you aren't black, gay, or a woman (who wants to make her own decisions) the 1950's were awesome - who wouldn't want to go back? It was a period of almost unrivaled prosperity with a rapidly expanding middle class.

The Democrats don't really have an image or a clear story: They have Joe Biden as President who is pretty moderate, but they also have 'the squad', Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. What is their actual party stance on Healthcare? What is their actual party stance on 'Socialism'?

Nuance and subtlety coupled with lack of clarity don't work well when you are trying to explain to 300MM people of varying backgrounds and educational levels the finer points of policy.

I do agree that the 'both sidesism' is a but unfair to the Democrats. The depth of the F'd up shit that Trump is doing while Republican leaders stand silently by should be a major issue for their party, but it isn't and the Democrats need to accept that and move on if they want to win elections.

[paulxu]

Booze, I appreciate your post and framing of the discussions going on.
Have yet to figure out how you message against false claims successfully.
If someone says you are a socialist (and gets an echo chamber to broadcast it) how do you counteract that?
If you read the party platform, or listen to Biden, there's no effort to be a socialist.
Likewise on health care. What could be clearer than trying to work for healthcare for all our citizens?
The effort with the ACA led to countless votes to overturn it, and a case yet to be decided by the Supreme Court.
One party tried to get health care help for millions of Americans...and one party opposed those efforts.
Oh well.

[boozehound]

Booze, I appreciate your post and framing of the discussions going on.
Have yet to figure out how you message against false claims successfully.
If someone says you are a socialist (and gets an echo chamber to broadcast it) how do you counteract that?
If you read the party platform, or listen to Biden, there's no effort to be a socialist.
Likewise on health care. What could be clearer than trying to work for healthcare for all our citizens?
The effort with the ACA led to countless votes to overturn it, and a case yet to be decided by the Supreme Court.
One party tried to get health care help for millions of Americans...and one party opposed those efforts.
Oh well.

Then they need to do a better job of explaining it to people. The fact that Bernie Sanders, in particular, has had such a loud voice in the last 2 primaries is a great example. He refers to himself as a Democratic Socialist. It doesn't take a lot to see how the Democrats then end up getting linked to Socialism.

Socialism is a tough concept because there is no clear definition - it generally exists on a sliding scale. Some 'Socialist' Countries are dramatically more free market than the others, etc. however the reality is that in the U.S. most people don't have a favorable opinion of Socialism.

What exactly is their plan on Healthcare? I get that I'm asking the Democrats to do more than the Republicans. For example the Republicans really have no clear message or plan on healthcare, even after 4 years of Trump claiming they where going to unveil the best Healthcare plan in History. However, the Democrats are the ones pushing change and pushing change is harder than convincing people that the Status Quo is just fine while creating fear of the unknown as a further dis-incentive to change. Healthcare for all should sound great - why doesn't everyone support it? What fears and concerns to people have that the Democrats need to assuage?

I'm not saying it's right - I'm saying that if Democrats want to win elections they need to improve messaging and education. They managed to (relatively narrowly all things considered) beat the worst President in modern history. They can't just say everybody in Middle America is uninformed and shrug their shoulders, as tempting as that may be at times.

[noteggs]

Have yet to figure out how you message against false claims successfully.
If someone says you are a socialist (and gets an echo chamber to broadcast it) how do you counteract that?
If you read the party platform, or listen to Biden, there's no effort to be a socialist.

Using labels to describe an entire political party is never a good idea. However if I had to choose, would rather be called a socialist (political ideology) vs discrediting my character by calling me a racist, homophobic, and xenophobic. Maybe that’s just me.

[Xville]

Booze, I appreciate your post and framing of the discussions going on.
Have yet to figure out how you message against false claims successfully.
If someone says you are a socialist (and gets an echo chamber to broadcast it) how do you counteract that?
If you read the party platform, or listen to Biden, there's no effort to be a socialist.
Likewise on health care. What could be clearer than trying to work for healthcare for all our citizens?
The effort with the ACA led to countless votes to overturn it, and a case yet to be decided by the Supreme Court.
One party tried to get health care help for millions of Americans...and one party opposed those efforts.
Oh well.

We should always believe every politician, they never lie. I mean, biden hasnt been caught outright lying while in office.

[bleedXblue]

Not sure if its been brought up here or not? I watched the "Social Dilemma" on NetFlix. An eye opener for sure. Scary stuff particularly when they discuss the issue of social media being able to control content, what you see and how its consumed by you. I for sure have had SM change my perspective on things and didn't even realize just how far right some of my opinions had drifted as a result. It's important to make sure you understand the facts of any particular topic, see both sides of an argument and position and RESPECT others and their opinion. Otherwise we are all going to continue to drift further apart from each other and continue to divide this great country.

[paulxu]

I'm left to wonder what the reasoning is for continuing to dispute the results.
Is it for a grand plan of activity or some sort (tv show, etc.) after January?
Does he honestly believe he won?
It seems the reluctance is costing us, in addressing necessary transition activities.
I know he can keep collecting money off of donors to pay down his debt, but then what? Will people buy hats next year?
It's all somewhat sad, and depressing, with the challenges facing the country.

https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-trump-conclusively-lost-bbb9d8c808021ed65d91aee003a7bc64?utm_source=Twitte r&utm_medium=APFactCheck&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

[boozehound]

Not sure if its been brought up here or not? I watched the "Social Dilemma" on NetFlix. An eye opener for sure. Scary stuff particularly when they discuss the issue of social media being able to control content, what you see and how its consumed by you. I for sure have had SM change my perspective on things and didn't even realize just how far right some of my opinions had drifted as a result. It's important to make sure you understand the facts of any particular topic, see both sides of an argument and position and RESPECT others and their opinion. Otherwise we are all going to continue to drift further apart from each other and continue to divide this great country.

I watched The Social Dilemma and then promptly deleted Facebook from my phone. After a few days they started sending me email on what I missed. I was never really a heavy user - I didn't comment much and mostly just used it to keep up on major life events for friends that I don't see often.

I actually think that more than almost any type of Media, Social Media is responsible for the most misinformation and division. It's literally breaking us a society. People aren't mean't to interact that way. It's also allowing for radicalization of people on both sides. It used to be that if you were crazy, or just an extreme misanthrope, society kind of forced you to act normal. There was never really any place with enough of a concentration of like minded individuals to really do anything too crazy. From time to time you'd get a Columbine situation where the wrong two people would get together and do something horrible, but it was pretty rare. Now people can get DEEP into some crazy rabbit holes and find tons of people to normalize their misguided thoughts and opinions, and find a community in which their thoughts can amplify. It happens with anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, anarchists, white supremacists, etc.

I'll give you a personal example: I play guitar, and have for years. About 7-8 years ago I treated myself to a Martin HD-28, which is a nice guitar that costs close to $3K new. I thought I was pretty close to the top of the food chain from a guitar perspective. That was a nice guitar that I had coveted for years! I then started frequenting guitar forums and found people who were paying $10K-$20K for guitars. Suddenly the $3K for the Martin didn't feel like such a splurge, and I started collecting more guitars. I've enjoyed the hell out of it - don't get me wrong, but finding that group of people definitely normalized (for me) and abnormal behavior.

Same thing happens for us and extreme degrees of Xavier fandom. Of course that is perfectly healthy :)

[Blue Blooded-05]

Not sure if its been brought up here or not? I watched the "Social Dilemma" on NetFlix. An eye opener for sure. Scary stuff particularly when they discuss the issue of social media being able to control content, what you see and how its consumed by you. I for sure have had SM change my perspective on things and didn't even realize just how far right some of my opinions had drifted as a result. It's important to make sure you understand the facts of any particular topic, see both sides of an argument and position and RESPECT others and their opinion. Otherwise we are all going to continue to drift further apart from each other and continue to divide this great country.


I watched The Social Dilemma and then promptly deleted Facebook from my phone. After a few days they started sending me email on what I missed. I was never really a heavy user - I didn't comment much and mostly just used it to keep up on major life events for friends that I don't see often.

I actually think that more than almost any type of Media, Social Media is responsible for the most misinformation and division. It's literally breaking us a society. People aren't mean't to interact that way. It's also allowing for radicalization of people on both sides. It used to be that if you were crazy, or just an extreme misanthrope, society kind of forced you to act normal. There was never really any place with enough of a concentration of like minded individuals to really do anything too crazy. From time to time you'd get a Columbine situation where the wrong two people would get together and do something horrible, but it was pretty rare. Now people can get DEEP into some crazy rabbit holes and find tons of people to normalize their misguided thoughts and opinions, and find a community in which their thoughts can amplify. It happens with anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, anarchists, white supremacists, etc.

Mark Zuckerberg’s net worth increased by $8 billion the day after the election... but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

Social Dilemma really opened my eyes. I never realized how profitable it is to monetize people’s anger.

[paulxu]

Same thing happens for us and extreme degrees of Xavier fandom. Of course that is perfectly healthy :)

I blame Muskie for the rabbit hole we've all gone down chasing the elusive Final Four. He's like the Red Queen.

[Xville]

2600 ballots found in georgia that were not previously counted. I'm not convinced there is massive fraud, and not even sure this was intended as such, but I am starting to believe there are a few issues in our system.

[boozehound]

2600 ballots found in georgia that were not previously counted. I'm not convinced there is massive fraud, and not even sure this was intended as such, but I am starting to believe there are a few issues in our system.

For sure. We are counting 150MM votes, and we only do it every 4 years. So basically they have to ramp up a whole vote-counting apparatus every 2-3 years or so. This year is probably doubly challenging due to the amount of mail-in voting that took place. It's why states have automatic recount policies, and why recounts exist in general.

Also worth remembering, the people counting votes are largely volunteer or getting paid very low wages. It's also typically not a full time job that they have held down for years and developed their skills at over time. Mistakes certainly do happen.

The good news in this specific election, and most elections actually, is that the margins of victory are significant enough that small scale issues like that are unlikely to sway elections. Bush v. Gore is the only real close election in recent history in which minor issues with vote gathering and counting could have actually swayed the election, since I think it ended up coming down to around 500 votes.

[Mrs. Garrett]

2600 ballots found in georgia that were not previously counted. I'm not convinced there is massive fraud, and not even sure this was intended as such, but I am starting to believe there are a few issues in our system.

Maybe they were the legal votes Lindsey Graham was trying to get the SOS to throw out.

[boozehound]

Maybe they were the legal votes Lindsey Graham was trying to get the SOS to throw out.

I don't know what the hell has happened to Lindsey Graham lately. I don't remember him being this crazy. He's either trying to set himself up to appeal to the Trump base for a 2024 Presidential Run or they have some dirt on him or something.

To be fair, The legal vote throwing out thing is still hearsay at this point though, I think. He's still said lots of ridiculous things just in the past 2 weeks.

[STL_XUfan]

I don't know what the hell has happened to Lindsey Graham lately. I don't remember him being this crazy. He's either trying to set himself up to appeal to the Trump base for a 2024 Presidential Run or they have some dirt on him or something.

To be fair, The legal vote throwing out thing is still hearsay at this point though, I think. He's still said lots of ridiculous things just in the past 2 weeks.

I figured it was a necessary evil to not be primaried for his seat in SC. Not sure why he is keeping it up after the election.

[noteggs]

Funny, Graham must have known you guys were talking about him. He just asked Dorsey and Zuckerberg if they have seen the movie Social Dilemma at today’s Senate hearing. Dorsey said no and Zuckerberg said he heard about it. After the question, Graham suggested they should.

[GoMuskies]

Dorsey and Zuck haven't seen Social Dilemma?!? I know they're busy people, but geez, that's one they both have to find time for.

[xubrew]

I saw The Social Dilemma last night. I agree. Everyone should watch. The Great Hack is another good movie with a similar topic, particularly on how social media was/is used as a political weapon.

[paulxu]

I bet they have. Weren't some of the people interviewed former Facebook employees?

[xubrew]

I bet they have. Weren't some of the people interviewed former Facebook employees?

Yes. For both movies. They interviewed people from all the social media platforms.

[X-band '01]

Funny, Graham must have known you guys were talking about him. He just asked Dorsey and Zuckerberg if they have seen the movie Social Dilemma at today’s Senate hearing. Dorsey said no and Zuckerberg said he heard about it. After the question, Graham suggested they should.

Translation: We don't want to know about it - i.e. the Rick Pitino defense in Louisville.

[Masterofreality]

Hilarious that "Common Man of the People" Joe Biden was propped up by $74 million dolllars in donations from Wall Street- much more than Trump.
Funny how the Elite runs to the support of the Elite. Meanwhile, the proletariat worker gets dismissed.

But Joe proclaimed: "We'll make sure Wall Street and the big earners pay their fair share!" Ha!! No, who will be paying a bigger part of their unfair share are little investors who are trying to make a buck on the stock that they bought and have to pay a much higher Capital Gains tax, not the brokers who sold them the stock.

The Wall Street elite know this, and that's why they and Biden could give a sheet about the "little guy" while they're drinking their fancy drinks in lower Manhattan bars.

[paulxu]

MOR, do you think Trump cares about the common man?
2 days after the election he set up a PAC, and started raising money from his base for election challenges.
But...the first $8000 of any contribution goes to his PAC and the RNC. So for every guy who wanted to help and sent $25, he's once again suckered.

By more red hats.

https://newrepublic.com/article/160222/trump-tweets-coup-littlest-prince

[xubrew]

MOR, do you think Trump cares about the common man?
2 days after the election he set up a PAC, and started raising money from his base for election challenges.
But...the first $8000 of any contribution goes to his PAC and the RNC. So for every guy who wanted to help and sent $25, he's once again suckered.

By more red hats.

https://newrepublic.com/article/160222/trump-tweets-coup-littlest-prince

It could be that one of the reasons Trump is not conceding is because he’s out of money and this is a way for him to pocket some.

[paulxu]

Right on cue he fires the head of the federal agency responsible for election security who was stupid enough to say in public that no evidence of fraud had occurred.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/chris-krebs-fired-by-trump/index.html

[bobbiemcgee]

Hilarious that "Common Man of the People" Joe Biden was propped up by $74 million dolllars in donations from Wall Street- much more than Trump.

Makes me laugh when 'pubs complain about the Dems raising a lot of money. Let face it, tRUMP would have gladly sucked up all the money on earth for his failed campaign and stuck a lot of it in his pocket. I think Biden's avg. donation was $47. He just got a bunch of them.

[bobbiemcgee]

Right on cue he fires the head of the federal agency responsible for election security who was stupid enough to say in public that no evidence of fraud had occurred.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/chris-krebs-fired-by-trump/index.html

I wouldn't call him stupid. He knew exactly what he was doing by telling the truth (tRump prefers lies) and knew he would eventually get fired. Integrity. Patriot.

[xubrew]

The full of shit sociopathic mental patient continues to fire people on the grounds that he thinks acknowledging reality is a sign of disloyalty.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-politics-elections-2481250f4e823dfb2a63d80569495c5c?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&fbclid=IwAR2dmn8cIchuzt-tvq52H8QCCR9ivwyveky76khpODANQksCOHIYvzX_6qI

[STL_XUfan]

This may be my favorite thing today:

[Judge] “What standard of review should I apply?”


Rudy: “The normal one.”


https://twitter.com/rmfifthcircuit/status/1328838326107959296?s=21

[xubrew]

This may be my favorite thing today:

[Judge] “What standard of review should I apply?”


Rudy: “The normal one.”


https://twitter.com/rmfifthcircuit/status/1328838326107959296?s=21

I’m not a lawyer. I take it that’s not a good answer?

[X-man]

Hilarious that "Common Man of the People" Joe Biden was propped up by $74 million dolllars in donations from Wall Street- much more than Trump.
Funny how the Elite runs to the support of the Elite. Meanwhile, the proletariat worker gets dismissed.

But Joe proclaimed: "We'll make sure Wall Street and the big earners pay their fair share!" Ha!! No, who will be paying a bigger part of their unfair share are little investors who are trying to make a buck on the stock that they bought and have to pay a much higher Capital Gains tax, not the brokers who sold them the stock.

The Wall Street elite know this, and that's why they and Biden could give a sheet about the "little guy" while they're drinking their fancy drinks in lower Manhattan bars.

Yeah, Trump just oozes empathy and connections with the common man.

[Xville]

another 3k uncounted ballots found in georgia on top of the 2k found a few days ago. This is really concerning to me, and if it has happened in georgia, chances are, it has happened elsewhere. I know that the votes aren't close enough to swing the vote, but regardless, this kind of stuff should not happen, period.

[Smails]

MOR, do you think Trump cares about the common man?
2 days after the election he set up a PAC, and started raising money from his base for election challenges.
But...the first $8000 of any contribution goes to his PAC and the RNC. So for every guy who wanted to help and sent $25, he's once again suckered.

By more red hats.

https://newrepublic.com/article/160222/trump-tweets-coup-littlest-prince

Trump lost and he needs to go. He will be out of office soon and the rest is just noise. None of that has anything to do with the fact that our president-elect is owned by Wall Street. Why do you think all of those suits donated to his campaign? The party of hating the 1%, the party of Occupy Wall Street is completely in bed with the mega-rich elites in the Northeast. Hypocrisy, irony, head in the sand...call it whatever you want. You dems love to clutch on to this fake moral and principled high ground and act as if your 'party of the people' is above dirty politics. Newsflash..whoever is better at playing dirty tends to win elections. Joe Biden won the election. Just own it.

[xubrew]

Dear Republicans,

As interesting as this has all been, it's now time to speak out against the sociopathic mental patient and tell him to stop trying to defy the results of an election that he clearly lost.

I'm not saying you should do this out of decency. We are sadly to a point now where simply arguing for what's decent just isn't going to fly. I'm saying you should look at this from a selfish and rational point of view.

Republicans did very well in this election. They held onto the senate (probably), they gained seats in the house, they held on to several state legislatures that many were expecting to flip. And had anyone else other than Trump been on the ballot, you probably win the presidential election as well. If you have a weak spot here, it's him!

Also, let's suppose for a second that the sociopathic mental patient actually gets the results of this election overturned. I know he almost assuredly won't, but let's just SUPPOSE that he does. You would be just 24 short months away from him putting all his energy into trying to get a third term, and you know what that would mean?? He would turn his ire against YOUR party! How dare the Republicans try and put someone else in office other than him even though he's already been there for two terms!!?? That would be disloyal! He'd attack every elected official who spoke out against him as being disloyal. He'd start firing people in mass like he is now (and like he has for the past four years, really). It would be a shit show!

Republicans, look at the big picture! Based on how things have gone you are just four years away from having total control back! The Democrats can't do anything right! We all know that! They probably aren't going to win any more elections of consequence anytime soon. UNLESS...you don't get rid of the sociopathic mental patient! This is your chance to get the 'batshit crazy' out of your party, and if you can just hold on for 24 more short months you'll have the house back, and then the presidency 24 short months after that.

BUT YOU GOTTA TELL THE SOCIOPATHIC MENTAL PATIENT TO STOP TRYING TO DEFY OUR DEMOCRACY AND THAT IT'S TIME TO GO!!!

[boozehound]

This whole Trump Presidency has been the strangest thing ever. I remember laughing when he entered the primaries, thinking that it was just a publicity stunt before he got smoked by Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, or Marco Rubio. Boy, was I wrong.

I still don't, and probably never well, understand the psychology behind the level of fanatical support that Trump got. I'm talking about the hardcore supporters that attend rally after rally, fly 47 flags, and have a Facebook background that is a picture of Donald Trump riding a bald eagle or some crazy shit like that. I really think it's a window into how quickly Authoritarian Nationalist/Populist regimes can spread. There seems to be a relatively large portion of our population that actually wants to be ruled but a strongman, as long as he is their strongman. Fortunately our Republic was strong enough to withstand it, but it should be a cautionary tale.

It seems difficult to argue that Donald Trump was a very bad President who was surrounded by a level of incompetence and (most likely) corruption that we haven't really seen before. While there were a few policy wins, he did very little but promised a lot. We were supposed to get the best healthcare plan ever, instead we got no healthcare plan despite having control of the Senate for his entire Presidency and the House for the first two years. Even before COVID he exploded the deficit. We all complain (correctly) about Obama's budget deficits in the low/mid 2% range, but never mention the fact that the deficit under Trump was up to 4.8% BEFORE covid. His foreign policy had some wins, but was largely incoherent and for some reason involved being combative toward our traditional allies rather than trying to build a coalition to take on China. Yet some people still love him. One guy in my neighborhood had 14 signs/flags in his yard.

People didn't do this shit with George Bush, they came closer with Obama but still didn't really reach anything approaching this level of devotion. Hopefully we can go back to the days when nobody really cared that much who the President is or what he was doing on a given day. I generally think we should all be pretty neutral on the President.

Now he is basically throwing a temper tantrum compromising National Security and sabotaging the next Presidency while our legislators stand idly by. We have never seen a President disregard the security of the American people this way. It's a fitting, and fittingly dangerous, end to this shit show.

[paulxu]

Today's comic relief: After the war on Christmas armistice (Melania said "Who gives a fuck about Christmas stuff and decoration?") a new battle front has opened up.

The War on Thanksgiving !

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure not giving a fuck about Christmas decorations is the same thing as not giving a fuck about Christmas.

Luckily, we were not planning to see any family for Thanksgiving this year (we tend not to travel for Thanksgiving), but man is Christmas going to be a fight. I know we'll be in a house with 20 people. I'm sure we'll not be alone in that regard.

[paulxu]

but man is Christmas going to be a fight. I know we'll be in a house with 20 people. I'm sure we'll not be alone in that regard.

Yikes! Good luck with that. (our kids with our grandchildren cancelled Thanksgiving together this year; thankfully.)

[Strange Brew]

Dear Republicans,

As interesting as this has all been, it's now time to speak out against the sociopathic mental patient and tell him to stop trying to defy the results of an election that he clearly lost.

I'm not saying you should do this out of decency. We are sadly to a point now where simply arguing for what's decent just isn't going to fly. I'm saying you should look at this from a selfish and rational point of view.

Republicans did very well in this election. They held onto the senate (probably), they gained seats in the house, they held on to several state legislatures that many were expecting to flip. And had anyone else other than Trump been on the ballot, you probably win the presidential election as well. If you have a weak spot here, it's him!

Also, let's suppose for a second that the sociopathic mental patient actually gets the results of this election overturned. I know he almost assuredly won't, but let's just SUPPOSE that he does. You would be just 24 short months away from him putting all his energy into trying to get a third term, and you know what that would mean?? He would turn his ire against YOUR party! How dare the Republicans try and put someone else in office other than him even though he's already been there for two terms!!?? That would be disloyal! He'd attack every elected official who spoke out against him as being disloyal. He'd start firing people in mass like he is now (and like he has for the past four years, really). It would be a shit show!

Republicans, look at the big picture! Based on how things have gone you are just four years away from having total control back! The Democrats can't do anything right! We all know that! They probably aren't going to win any more elections of consequence anytime soon. UNLESS...you don't get rid of the sociopathic mental patient! This is your chance to get the 'batshit crazy' out of your party, and if you can just hold on for 24 more short months you'll have the house back, and then the presidency 24 short months after that.

BUT YOU GOTTA TELL THE SOCIOPATHIC MENTAL PATIENT TO STOP TRYING TO DEFY OUR DEMOCRACY AND THAT IT'S TIME TO GO!!!

This is hilarious when you look at the past for years of violence and resisting done by the Left. Hell, they're still not over the 2000 election. Let's do this, give Trump the same amount of time given to Gore to contest the election, impeach Biden and open investigations into China influence on the election and we'll call it good ok?

[xubrew]

This is hilarious when you look at the past for years of violence and resisting done by the Left. Hell, they're still not over the 2000 election. Let's do this, give Trump the same amount of time given to Gore to contest the election, impeach Biden and open investigations into China influence on the election and we'll call it good ok?

You're talking about the batshit crazy lunatic fringe that you associate with The Left and not the actual Democratic candidate who actually clearly lost elections.

And it's funny, but not funny, that you bring up 2000 and how that preparation for the transition of power was delayed/shortened. I distinctly remember something that went catastrophically wrong less than a year later. So shouldn't that make everyone a little apprehensive about how the sociopathic mental patient is gutting DHS right now??

Trump CLEARLY lost the election. Continuing to contest the results is like getting out of your car and yelling at a stop sign. It's not going to change. He's just acting like a fool, and he's actually hurting not just his party, but the entire country. If you follow what's going on in the courts, it's just getting more and more laughable. Most of what he's publicly alleging isn't even being introduced at court because there is so little basis for it that it's just a complete fabrication that he's pulled out of his ass. What is actually being introduced in court is pretty much being laughed out of court. Gore never did anything this damaging or foolish. Neither has any other candidate for any public office that has lost an election that I can think of. Anyone with any sense knows that he's being utterly ridiculous, which wouldn't be so bad (and would even be a little amusing) if it couldn't also potentially be damaging to the country.

[bjf123]

....I really think it's a window into how quickly Authoritarian Nationalist/Populist regimes can spread. There seems to be a relatively large portion of our population that actually wants to be ruled but a strongman, as long as he is their strongman.

I always find it amusing when those on the Left play the “Authoritarian” card regarding Trump. What’s the party that wants anyone who disagrees with their position canceled? What’s the party that reacts with violence when they see anyone wearing a Trump hat or people at the Right just out for dinner? The authoritarian party is clearly on the Left side of the aisle.


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[xubrew]

I always find it amusing when those on the Left play the “Authoritarian” card regarding Trump. What’s the party that wants anyone who disagrees with their position canceled? What’s the party that reacts with violence when they see anyone wearing a Trump hat or people at the Right just out for dinner? The authoritarian party is clearly on the Left side of the aisle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A valid point!!

Did you not notice how the Democrats underperformed in the election?? And how the main Republican who lost the election now seems to want to go to that playbook??

Shouldn't that assessment be enough to make the Republicans realize that this guy is acting very foolishly at best, and destructively at worst, and that it's now time for him to go??

[bjf123]

I agree that Trump should concede. At the same time, there are enough questions about the integrity of the election that things should be investigated. Bags of previously uncounted ballots discovered after the election. Sworn affidavits of people who saw the same ballots being run through the counting machines multiple times. Large number of ballots with only a vote for Biden and no other races.

We all know that if these same things were being claimed, but were to the disadvantage of the Democrats, the Left and the media would be screaming about voter suppression and filing lawsuits all over the country.

Clearly there are things that should be examined. Will any of it change this election? Highly unlikely. Of course, all of the Secretaries of State are saying they have faith in the integrity of their processes. What do you expect them to say!?!?!? “Oh, damn. You caught us. Our system makes it very easy to count invalid ballots. We were hoping no one would notice.”


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[X-band '01]

Dear Republicans,

As interesting as this has all been, it's now time to speak out against the sociopathic mental patient and tell him to stop trying to defy the results of an election that he clearly lost.

I'm not saying you should do this out of decency. We are sadly to a point now where simply arguing for what's decent just isn't going to fly. I'm saying you should look at this from a selfish and rational point of view.

Republicans did very well in this election. They held onto the senate (probably), they gained seats in the house, they held on to several state legislatures that many were expecting to flip. And had anyone else other than Trump been on the ballot, you probably win the presidential election as well. If you have a weak spot here, it's him!

Also, let's suppose for a second that the sociopathic mental patient actually gets the results of this election overturned. I know he almost assuredly won't, but let's just SUPPOSE that he does. You would be just 24 short months away from him putting all his energy into trying to get a third term, and you know what that would mean?? He would turn his ire against YOUR party! How dare the Republicans try and put someone else in office other than him even though he's already been there for two terms!!?? That would be disloyal! He'd attack every elected official who spoke out against him as being disloyal. He'd start firing people in mass like he is now (and like he has for the past four years, really). It would be a shit show!

Republicans, look at the big picture! Based on how things have gone you are just four years away from having total control back! The Democrats can't do anything right! We all know that! They probably aren't going to win any more elections of consequence anytime soon. UNLESS...you don't get rid of the sociopathic mental patient! This is your chance to get the 'batshit crazy' out of your party, and if you can just hold on for 24 more short months you'll have the house back, and then the presidency 24 short months after that.

BUT YOU GOTTA TELL THE SOCIOPATHIC MENTAL PATIENT TO STOP TRYING TO DEFY OUR DEMOCRACY AND THAT IT'S TIME TO GO!!!

It would take about two seconds for Democrats to instantly dispute all the elections they lost in retaliation should that happen.

Trump must have Epstein-like goods on Republican leaders for them not to have kicked him to the curb and invoked the 25th Amendment by now.

[boozehound]

I always find it amusing when those on the Left play the “Authoritarian” card regarding Trump. What’s the party that wants anyone who disagrees with their position canceled? What’s the party that reacts with violence when they see anyone wearing a Trump hat or people at the Right just out for dinner? The authoritarian party is clearly on the Left side of the aisle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I find it amusing that you seem to equate a critique of Trump with having to come from someone 'on the left'. I mean, I guess it has to if it's criticizing Trump right? There's just no other option.


A valid point!!

Did you not notice how the Democrats underperformed in the election?? And how the main Republican who lost the election now seems to want to go to that playbook??

Shouldn't that assessment be enough to make the Republicans realize that this guy is acting very foolishly at best, and destructively at worst, and that it's now time for him to go??

Spot on. Generally if you decry someone doing something, you should't turn around and do the same thing because the bad guys 'did it first'.

I also think that if you really look at the rhetoric from Trump to his supporters, and you don't see a difference between that and anything we have ever heard from a mainstream political candidate on either side, you either aren't looking very hard or you are being intentionally obtuse because it services your chose political viewpoint. I'm sure people will say he's 'just joking', but it really doesn't seem that way, and even if he is he shouldn't be joking about jailing his political opponents, refusing to relinquish power, giving himself a 'third term', etc. He also has tried to act on a good portion of that - including his recent efforts to discredit the election.

That shit is a big deal, and it is real authoritarianism, not authoritarianism like getting someone fired for tweeting some homophobic shit or something like that.

[xubrew]

I agree that Trump should concede. At the same time, there are enough questions about the integrity of the election that things should be investigated. Bags of previously uncounted ballots discovered after the election. Sworn affidavits of people who saw the same ballots being run through the counting machines multiple times. Large number of ballots with only a vote for Biden and no other races.

We all know that if these same things were being claimed, but were to the disadvantage of the Democrats, the Left and the media would be screaming about voter suppression and filing lawsuits all over the country.

Clearly there are things that should be examined. Will any of it change this election? Highly unlikely. Of course, all of the Secretaries of State are saying they have faith in the integrity of their processes. What do you expect them to say!?!?!? “Oh, damn. You caught us. Our system makes it very easy to count invalid ballots. We were hoping no one would notice.”


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Here's the thing, though. NONE of that is being brought forward to the courts. Is there any reason why Trump's own lawyers would not bring any of that forward or push for the courts to order it to be looked into other than that they know that it's totally fabricated??

You can't say "We have all this evidence!!" and then when asked to present it or given the opportunity to present it, NOT present it!

If you don't think Trump is totally full of shit, and ACTUALLY believe that this election was stolen and that Trump's lawyers have the evidence to prove it, then why aren't you yelling at them for not doing so and instead only bringing forward hilariously flimsy "evidence" that is getting tossed out of court?

[X-band '01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSPUP4siQx8

[X-band '01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKc4IzLE2T4

[Strange Brew]

Let’s allow Trump the same amount of time given to Gore and immediately impeach Biden for his dealings with China. Seems fair.

[boozehound]

Here's the thing, though. NONE of that is being brought forward to the courts. Is there any reason why Trump's own lawyers would not bring any of that forward or push for the courts to order it to be looked into other than that they know that it's totally fabricated??

You can't say "We have all this evidence!!" and then when asked to present it or given the opportunity to present it, NOT present it!

If you don't think Trump is totally full of shit, and ACTUALLY believe that this election was stolen and that Trump's lawyers have the evidence to prove it, then why aren't you yelling at them for not doing so and instead only bringing forward hilariously flimsy "evidence" that is getting tossed out of court?

There seem to be two options right now:

1. Support and defend everything that Trump does or says
2. You're a Democrat!

There might even be a flow chart.


Let’s allow Trump the same amount of time given to Gore and immediately impeach Biden for his dealings with China. Seems fair.

Drawing parallels to Bush-Gore is ridiculous for a number of reasons, including (not not limited to) the following:

1. First and foremost - that was a simple re-count centered around 1 state that was MUCH closer than any of the states being contested in this election. There is no single state that is being contested that would change the result.

2. If Trump was simply quietly pursuing a re-count while allowing for a transition in the (likely) event that he loses, it would be a different story. That's obviously not what happened.

That comparison is a logical fallacy.

[xubrew]

Let’s allow Trump the same amount of time given to Gore and immediately impeach Biden for his dealings with China. Seems fair.

Yeah, you said that already, and again the answer is that Trump is gutting DHS and other parts of The Pentagon, which should concern everyone given the world that we now live in. Nothing like this happened the last time, yet we still had 9/11. We are potentially even more prone to something like that happening again than we were before.

[STL_XUfan]

Here's the thing, though. NONE of that is being brought forward to the courts. Is there any reason why Trump's own lawyers would not bring any of that forward or push for the courts to order it to be looked into other than that they know that it's totally fabricated??

You can't say "We have all this evidence!!" and then when asked to present it or given the opportunity to present it, NOT present it!

If you don't think Trump is totally full of shit, and ACTUALLY believe that this election was stolen and that Trump's lawyers have the evidence to prove it, then why aren't you yelling at them for not doing so and instead only bringing forward hilariously flimsy "evidence" that is getting tossed out of court?

Lying about evidence on Tucker Carlson: No penalty
Lying about evidence to a Federal Judge: Significant penalty.

[xubrew]

Lying about evidence on Tucker Carlson: No penalty
Lying about evidence to a Federal Judge: Significant penalty.

BINGO!!

There is not another reason that I can think of as to why this hasn't been brought before the courts other than that it is all a lie and his lawyers know that. It's not like the sociopathic mental patient doesn't have a long history of lying.

[Masterofreality]

Let’s allow Trump the same amount of time given to Gore and immediately impeach Biden for his dealings with China. Seems fair.

Hillary Clinton never conceded the 2016 election.
By the way, Stacy Abrams never conceded the 2018 gubernatorial election. You never hear or heard the media screaming about that. Just urging them on.

[xubrew]

Hillary Clinton never conceded the 2016 election.
By the way, Stacy Abrams never conceded the 2018 gubernatorial election. You never hear or heard the media screaming about that. Just urging them on.

MOR, did you accidentally microwave your head!!??

Hillary called him in the middle of the night to concede, gave a concession speech the next day, and O'Bama also called him that night to congratulate him and invite him to the White House to begin the transition process.

This is as far off the reservation as saying Xavier never went to the Elite Eight. Never happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv4hsmfgRuI

[94GRAD]

Hillary Clinton never conceded the 2016 election.
By the way, Stacy Abrams never conceded the 2018 gubernatorial election. You never hear or heard the media screaming about that. Just urging them on.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/hillary-clinton-concedes-election-donald-trump-speech

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501425243/watch-live-hillary-clinton-concedes-presidential-race-to-donald-trump

https://fortune.com/2016/11/09/us-presidential-election-results-2016-hillary-clinton/

A quick google search says otherwise

[GoMuskies]

I suspect MOR's point will be that Clinton to this day claims she was cheated out of the election due to Russian interference.

[xubrew]

I suspect MOR's point will be that Clinton to this day claims she was cheated out of the election due to Russian interference.

Okay, well if you put it like that then I'm less inclined to think that he needs to immediately move out of his house and have it checked for lead.

[Strange Brew]

There seem to be two options right now:

1. Support and defend everything that Trump does or says
2. You're a Democrat!

There might even be a flow chart.



Drawing parallels to Bush-Gore is ridiculous for a number of reasons, including (not not limited to) the following:

1. First and foremost - that was a simple re-count centered around 1 state that was MUCH closer than any of the states being contested in this election. There is no single state that is being contested that would change the result.

2. If Trump was simply quietly pursuing a re-count while allowing for a transition in the (likely) event that he loses, it would be a different story. That's obviously not what happened.

That comparison is a logical fallacy.

Different. There was going to be a transition anyway after Clinton and Clinton failed to kill OBL when he had the chance.

[Smails]

There seem to be two options right now:

1. Support and defend everything that Trump does or says
2. You're a Democrat!

There might even be a flow chart.




Nope...that dog don't hunt. I've been critical of his behavior throughout his presidency. If he would have just put the twitter down and perhaps not attacked John McCain posthumously, he probably wins Arizona and the WH. The man can't get out of his own way and that's a shame because I was a fan of 90% of his public policy decisions. I am of the position that he lost fair and square and he needs to start making an exit strategy. My position echoes just about every conservative I know and communicate with. I think you're making the mistake of just hearing the loudest voices.

Also- there was nothing 'simple' about the recount in Florida. It was a rock fight and the Republicans threw bigger, dirtier rocks.

[94GRAD]

Nope...that dog don't hunt. I've been critical of his behavior throughout his presidency. If he would have just put the twitter down and perhaps not attacked John McCain posthumously, he probably wins Arizona and the WH. The man can't get out of his own way and that's a shame because I was a fan of 90% of his public policy decisions. I am of the position that he lost fair and square and he needs to start making an exit strategy. My position echoes just about every conservative I know and communicate with. I think you're making the mistake of just hearing the loudest voices.

Also- there was nothing 'simple' about the recount in Florida. It was a rock fight and the Republicans threw bigger, dirtier rocks.

Public reps since the man is keeping me down.

[bobbiemcgee]

another 3k uncounted ballots found in georgia on top of the 2k found a few days ago. This is really concerning to me, and if it has happened in georgia, chances are, it has happened elsewhere. I know that the votes aren't close enough to swing the vote, but regardless, this kind of stuff should not happen, period.

Hmmm, republican counties run by republicans who apparently flunked math. That's why they did the audit. trump got a few more votes. Can you imagine the furor if Joe came out with an extra vote or two? I'm sure trump will sue them anyway.

[X-man]

Hillary Clinton never conceded the 2016 election.
By the way, Stacy Abrams never conceded the 2018 gubernatorial election. You never hear or heard the media screaming about that. Just urging them on.

Huh? See link: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/hillary-clinton-concedes-election-donald-trump-speech.

Or https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/hillary-clinton-concedes-to-trump-we-owe-him-an-open-mind-and-a-chance-to-lead/

[boozehound]

Nope...that dog don't hunt. I've been critical of his behavior throughout his presidency. If he would have just put the twitter down and perhaps not attacked John McCain posthumously, he probably wins Arizona and the WH. The man can't get out of his own way and that's a shame because I was a fan of 90% of his public policy decisions. I am of the position that he lost fair and square and he needs to start making an exit strategy. My position echoes just about every conservative I know and communicate with. I think you're making the mistake of just hearing the loudest voices.

Also- there was nothing 'simple' about the recount in Florida. It was a rock fight and the Republicans threw bigger, dirtier rocks.

That's a great point. Maybe I am just hearing the loudest voices. Just using this board as an example I think you are the only person who identifies as conservative / republican with this message RE: the election though.

How do we square up the tolerance for Trump's behavior (which is at this point getting dangerous) if most conservatives feel this way?

I'll be honest. Trump has ruined conservatism for me. I should probably be a Republican - I'm a White dude with a pretty solid income. I'm married and my wife stays home and raises my kids while I work. My parents are still married and my Mom also stayed home and raised her kids. I think that family values are critically important to any community. I also think that they budget deficit and spending are major concerns. Biden's plan will likely raise my tax burden, which I'm not crazy about. I just can't get past the absurdity of electing Donald Trump President, and then not holding him accountable for any of his behavior over the past for years.

There is plenty on the left for me not to like, but for some reason this idea that Republicans picked Donald Trump (of all people) and then spent 4 years enabling him and normalizing his bizarre behavior is too much for me. I'm really hoping we can return to sanity here and Republican Presidential candidates that represent a real option for me.

[Smails]

How do we square up the tolerance for Trump's behavior (which is at this point getting dangerous) if most conservatives feel this way?

.

This is just me..but trying to square up the behavior of a politician is meaningless IMO. I think 95% of them are crooks. I go black and white and look at how their policy decisions affect me and those around me. I've never looked at an elected official to be my moral compass, nor have I raised my kids to be morally guided by politicians. I have no desire to hang out with Donald Trump. He's arrogant, probably incapable of taking a joke and doesn't drink...but he got my vote because I liked his tax plan, trade deals and has put together a foreign policy that stopped sending our boys to the desert to die among other things.

Squaring up tolerance is a whole other thing. Everybody does it. One of my best friends is a die hard dem and in his home office he has pictures of Jack Kennedy (screwed anything that moved), Ted Kennedy (manslaughterer at best and maybe a murderer), Bill Clinton (probably only #2 to Jack Kennedy in terms of being an ass hound and that goes well beyond getting hummers from a 20 something intern in the WH) and Barak Obama (solid guy). People tolerate and sweep things under their mental rug all the time in politics. It's nothing new.

[GoMuskies]

I'll be honest. Trump has ruined conservatism for me. I should probably be a Republican -

What you SHOULD be is politically homeless. It's the only way to go. Fuck both them parties for their own reasons.

[STL_XUfan]

What you SHOULD be is politically homeless. It's the only way to go. Fuck both them parties for their own reasons.

Go Ahead, throw your vote away:


https://youtu.be/w7NeRiNefO0

I really wish that the current parties would split into about 4-5 different parties to actually represent the various view points. But neither party will unilaterally disarm, so I have no faith that it will ever occur.

[boozehound]

This is just me..but trying to square up the behavior of a politician is meaningless IMO. I think 95% of them are crooks. I go black and white and look at how their policy decisions affect me and those around me. I've never looked at an elected official to be my moral compass, nor have I raised my kids to be morally guided by politicians. I have no desire to hang out with Donald Trump. He's arrogant, probably incapable of taking a joke and doesn't drink...but he got my vote because I liked his tax plan, trade deals and has put together a foreign policy that stopped sending our boys to the desert to die among other things.

Squaring up tolerance is a whole other thing. Everybody does it. One of my best friends is a die hard dem and in his home office he has pictures of Jack Kennedy (screwed anything that moved), Ted Kennedy (manslaughterer at best and maybe a murderer), Bill Clinton (probably only #2 to Jack Kennedy in terms of being an ass hound and that goes well beyond getting hummers from a 20 something intern in the WH) and Barak Obama (solid guy). People tolerate and sweep things under their mental rug all the time in politics. It's nothing new.

Is there a level at which their behavior in office matters though?

I don't care about Trump's divorces, or really anything else he does in his personal life. I don't really even care if he is cheating on Melania right now, except maybe that a President having affairs opens him up to blackmail. I do care that the multiple respected Military leaders that have served in his cabinet have called him a threat to national security and have said that he is the only President who seeks only to divide the people in the country that he serves as leader of.

I also care that important political norms have been damaged. For example - I think it's highly advisable for Presidential Candidates to release their tax returns. I also don't think we want close family members of the President actively managing foreign businesses while in office. We probably shouldn't be having the Secret Service stay at properties owned by the President.

Let's say you believe that Trump is completely above any kind of graft or profiting off the Presidency, or having business dealings influence foreign policy. What if the next guy isn't? We've broken down many of the barriers that used to prevent outright corruption by Presidents while in office.

That kind of stuff outweighs policy for me personally.

I will also admit that I really don't like the tweeting. It's easy enough to ignore the President being a jackass if he isn't constantly tweeting stupid shit. Trump makes it very hard to ignore his character flaws.

Also - your friend has pictures of his Democratic heroes in his home office? I can't imagine liking a politician that much. Maybe that's what the Trump adulation some (not all - I get that) feel just doesn't compute for me.


What you SHOULD be is politically homeless. It's the only way to go. Fuck both them parties for their own reasons.

It's what I am. Conservatives call me a liberal, liberals call me heartless.

[Masterofreality]

This is just me..but trying to square up the behavior of a politician is meaningless IMO. I think 95% of them are crooks. I go black and white and look at how their policy decisions affect me and those around me. I've never looked at an elected official to be my moral compass, nor have I raised my kids to be morally guided by politicians. I have no desire to hang out with Donald Trump. He's arrogant, probably incapable of taking a joke and doesn't drink...but he got my vote because I liked his tax plan, trade deals and has put together a foreign policy that stopped sending our boys to the desert to die among other things.

Squaring up tolerance is a whole other thing. Everybody does it. One of my best friends is a die hard dem and in his home office he has pictures of Jack Kennedy (screwed anything that moved), Ted Kennedy (manslaughterer at best and maybe a murderer), Bill Clinton (probably only #2 to Jack Kennedy in terms of being an ass hound and that goes well beyond getting hummers from a 20 something intern in the WH) and Barak Obama (solid guy). People tolerate and sweep things under their mental rug all the time in politics. It's nothing new.

This. Is. Perfect.

[Masterofreality]

Is there a level at which their behavior in office matters though?

I don't care about Trump's divorces, or really anything else he does in his personal life. I don't really even care if he is cheating on Melania right now, except maybe that a President having affairs opens him up to blackmail. I do care that the multiple respected Military leaders that have served in his cabinet have called him a threat to national security and have said that he is the only President who seeks only to divide the people in the country that he serves as leader of.
Military Leaders have a vested interest in having troops involved overseas. Trump has been trying to bring troops home. He is the only president in recent history that did not start a new war, and actually deescalated. Totally against what the "military leaders" want, by nature

I also care that important political norms have been damaged. For example - I think it's highly advisable for Presidential Candidates to release their tax returns. I also don't think we want close family members of the President actively managing foreign businesses while in office. We probably shouldn't be having the Secret Service stay at properties owned by the President.
Never before has a businessman been elected president. Private business dealings that are subject to audit are different than career politicians dealings that have made them fabulously rich, in unknown ways.

Let's say you believe that Trump is completely above any kind of graft or profiting off the Presidency, or having business dealings influence foreign policy. What if the next guy isn't? We've broken down many of the barriers that used to prevent outright corruption by Presidents while in office.
"The Big Guy" being set aside 10% of payments from China for Hunter's company, plus intervening in a Ukranian Prosecutor's investigation of a Hunter Biden company by getting that Prosecutor fired before $1.5 Billion are sent to Ukraine. Plus "The Big Guy" abjectly lying about "Never speaking to his son about his Business Dealings" as verified by a former Business Partner of Hunter Biden. That's called blackmailable graft.

That kind of stuff outweighs policy for me personally. Does that outweigh policy?

I will also admit that I really don't like the tweeting. It's easy enough to ignore the President being a jackass if he isn't constantly tweeting stupid shit. Trump makes it very hard to ignore his character flaws.

Also - your friend has pictures of his Democratic heroes in his home office? I can't imagine liking a politician that much. Maybe that's what the Trump adulation some (not all - I get that) feel just doesn't compute for me.



It's what I am. Conservatives call me a liberal, liberals call me heartless.

See the above....

[bobbiemcgee]

Rudy thinks a Disney character won PA:

"Giuliani says they're not asking to throw out all the votes, just around 680,000 from Pittsburgh and Philly. He acknowledges it's a "draconian" remedy. "As far as we’re concerned, your honor, those ballots could have been for Mickey Mouse."

This is the crack legal mind you get for 20k a day or maybe just a mind on crack.

[Strange Brew]

Drop and roll folks. Drop and roll.

[Masterofreality]

Huh? See link: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/hillary-clinton-concedes-election-donald-trump-speech.

Or https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/hillary-clinton-concedes-to-trump-we-owe-him-an-open-mind-and-a-chance-to-lead/

Ok. When I post something that is wrong, I admit that I was wrong. I was correct on Abrams but wrong on Clinton.
What I was going for though, with the wrong election was Al Gore, who, similarly to now, didn’t concede until 36 days after the election after all his legal challenges were exhausted. Let’s see if on December 13, 2020 after all of his legal challenges are exhausted, Trump concedes. Don’t know if he will or not, but no matter what, Biden will be President.

It’s ok to fight if you have legal grounds, and I didn’t fault Gore, just like I’m not fighting Trump now. But when it IS over it’s over. Like Abrams it is bad form, but not a Constitutional Crisis to not concede. If Trump doesn’t do it, he severely damages his brand, but the country will survive.

After, January 20th, who are all the Trump Deranged haters in the press and public going to hate? And, since Biden’s campaign was treated with kid gloves by the MSM, get ready for a 4 year nap on anything Biden does.

[bobbiemcgee]

Legal grounds? 96% of his lawsuits have been dismissed or kicked out. He lost in all the states he disputed, 2 bigly, not just one by 500 votes. 306-232 or as your boy said in 2016 - "a landslide." Nobody gives a shit if he concedes, which he won't but Biden needs to move ahead with his covid response but the fat pig Murphy won't give him the info he needs to coordinate a response.
Corporate America has also turned on him. Time to give it up and stop hurting the Nation.
"Now is a time for unity," JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon said in a statement. "We must respect the results of the U.S. presidential election and, as we have with every election, honor the decision of the voters and support a peaceful transition of power."
Here's what one of his lawyers, Jenna Ellis, said about him 4 years ago:

"Ellis, an attorney and former law professor from Colorado, repeatedly slammed then-candidate Trump as an "idiot," who was "boorish and arrogant," and a "bully" whose words could not be trusted as factually accurate. She called comments he made about women "disgusting," and suggested he was not a "real Christian."
In one March 2016 Facebook post, Ellis said Trump's values were "not American," linking to a post that called Trump an "American fascist." She praised Mitt Romney for speaking out against Trump, referring to him as "Drumpf," -- a nickname coined by comedian John Oliver after a biographer revealed Trump's ancestor changed the family's surname from Drumpf to Trump.
"Why should we rest our highest office in America, on a man who fundamentally goes back and forth and really cannot be trusted to be consistent or accurate in anything," Ellis said in one April 2016 radio appearance."

[Smails]

Legal grounds? 96% of his lawsuits have been dismissed or kicked out. He lost in all the states he disputed, 2 bigly, not just one by 500 votes. 306-232 or as your boy said in 2016 - "a landslide." Nobody gives a shit if he concedes, which he won't but Biden needs to move ahead with his covid response but the fat pig Murphy won't give him the info he needs to coordinate a response.
Corporate America has also turned on him. Time to give it up and stop hurting the Nation.
"Now is a time for unity," JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon said in a statement. "We must respect the results of the U.S. presidential election and, as we have with every election, honor the decision of the voters and support a peaceful transition of power."
Here's what one of his lawyers, Jenna Ellis, said about him 4 years ago:

"Ellis, an attorney and former law professor from Colorado, repeatedly slammed then-candidate Trump as an "idiot," who was "boorish and arrogant," and a "bully" whose words could not be trusted as factually accurate. She called comments he made about women "disgusting," and suggested he was not a "real Christian."
In one March 2016 Facebook post, Ellis said Trump's values were "not American," linking to a post that called Trump an "American fascist." She praised Mitt Romney for speaking out against Trump, referring to him as "Drumpf," -- a nickname coined by comedian John Oliver after a biographer revealed Trump's ancestor changed the family's surname from Drumpf to Trump.
"Why should we rest our highest office in America, on a man who fundamentally goes back and forth and really cannot be trusted to be consistent or accurate in anything," Ellis said in one April 2016 radio appearance."

LOL!! Our resident lefty loon is now quoting Jamie Dimon. Think on that for a minute...That man has been viewed by the left as the devil for years and now his words somehow matter as long as they are anti-trump. Why do you think Dimon wants Trump out? He doesn't give 2 shits about unity or respecting election results. He wants market stabilization and the opportunity to collect on that 75 million dollar check that Wall Street wrote to grandpa Joe. The Dems are the party of Wall Street.

And on Jenna Ellis: She's just another lawyer who chose money over principle...the horror!

[xubrew]

And of course, it continues. I actually wouldn't mind that much (and perhaps not at all) if he didn't keep appointing person after person after person that the ABA rates as being unqualified.

The article does bring up a point that is very important. This is partly on the Democrats. They made it so that a simple majority was all that was needed to get federal judges confirmed, which was a bad idea because the real goal should be to find judges that both sides can supprt and not judges that are partisan to one side or the other. Now, it's the Republicans turn to ram their people through. GOOD JOB AMERICA!!!

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-gop-defy-precedent-with-lame-duck-judicial-confirmations?fbclid=IwAR0qJAZTVxdiR47ZC5dzlcwxkD3 Zgr-2LS2exOKVaUPOteQVAnwAp7dTRrM

[Masterofreality]

And of course, it continues. I actually wouldn't mind that much (and perhaps not at all) if he didn't keep appointing person after person after person that the ABA rates as being unqualified.

The article does bring up a point that is very important. This is partly on the Democrats. They made it so that a simple majority was all that was needed to get federal judges confirmed, which was a bad idea because the real goal should be to find judges that both sides can supprt and not judges that are partisan to one side or the other. Now, it's the Republicans turn to ram their people through. GOOD JOB AMERICA!!!

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-gop-defy-precedent-with-lame-duck-judicial-confirmations?fbclid=IwAR0qJAZTVxdiR47ZC5dzlcwxkD3 Zgr-2LS2exOKVaUPOteQVAnwAp7dTRrM

Harry Reid is the gift that keeps on giving.

[GoMuskies]

And of course, it continues. I actually wouldn't mind that much (and perhaps not at all) if he didn't keep appointing person after person after person that the ABA rates as being unqualified.

The article does bring up a point that is very important. This is partly on the Democrats. They made it so that a simple majority was all that was needed to get federal judges confirmed, which was a bad idea because the real goal should be to find judges that both sides can supprt and not judges that are partisan to one side or the other. Now, it's the Republicans turn to ram their people through. GOOD JOB AMERICA!!!

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-gop-defy-precedent-with-lame-duck-judicial-confirmations?fbclid=IwAR0qJAZTVxdiR47ZC5dzlcwxkD3 Zgr-2LS2exOKVaUPOteQVAnwAp7dTRrM

The one rated unqualified this time was a bit young (only graduated from law school in 2012), but she WAS a Supreme Court clerk and had been working at Jones Day. So I suspect she's more "unqualified" than not actually qualified for the job.

[xubrew]

The one rated unqualified this time was a bit young (only graduated from law school in 2012), but she WAS a Supreme Court clerk and had been working at Jones Day. So I suspect she's more "unqualified" than not actually qualified for the job.

It seems to me the strategy is to appoint people who are young because to them being qualified isn't nearly as important as being able to work for the longest amount of years and not be replaced. This is also more McConnell than it is Trump. I keep saying that if the Dems can get rid of Pelosi and the Reps can get rid of McConnell, then we'd all be better off.

[STL_XUfan]

It seems to me the strategy is to appoint people who are young because to them being qualified isn't nearly as important as being able to work for the longest amount of years and not be replaced. This is also more McConnell than it is Trump. I keep saying that if the Dems can get rid of Pelosi and the Reps can get rid of McConnell, then we'd all be better off.

I think this tweet from Justin Amash hits the nail on the head:

@justinamash


New members of Congress increasingly view the job primarily as one of performance art or entertainment. It’s hardly surprising, though, because congressional leaders have almost completely blocked rank-and-file members from participating in the legislative process.


https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1327656740192727043

[GoMuskies]

It seems to me the strategy is to appoint people who are young because to them being qualified isn't nearly as important as being able to work for the longest amount of years and not be replaced. This is also more McConnell than it is Trump. I keep saying that if the Dems can get rid of Pelosi and the Reps can get rid of McConnell, then we'd all be better off.

Perhaps, but looking at this particular judge's resume she was actually supremely qualified. Just hadn't hit the "magic" 12 years yet.

[xubrew]

Perhaps, but looking at this particular judge's resume she was actually supremely qualified. Just hadn't hit the "magic" 12 years yet.

Well, that makes me feel better.

Nevermind!

[X-band '01]

Meanwhile, we're going to need a separate wing of the Hamilton County Jail devoted to City Council. Both Jeff Pastor and now PG Sittenfeld have been arrested/indicted this month.

[bjf123]

Meanwhile, we're going to need a separate wing of the Hamilton County Jail devoted to City Council. Both Jeff Pastor and now PG Sittenfeld have been arrested/indicted this month.

So glad I don’t live or work in the City of Cincinnati and pay any income taxes to that train wreck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fellahmuskie]

I may have voted for Tamaya and Jeff in the last election, but at least I can say I never voted for PG! I've hated that guy ever since I moved to Cincinnati. So glad he's getting exposed.

[Masterofreality]

Meanwhile, we're going to need a separate wing of the Hamilton County Jail devoted to City Council. Both Jeff Pastor and now PG Sittenfeld have been arrested/indicted this month.

See? You just have to begin from the premise that all politicians lie, are corrupt and suck. Then you move back from there. Never be surprised.
Sittenfeld was the rising star of the Dems in Ohio. Now, HE gone. The D’s in this state just keep stepping on their own, errrrrr, D’s. They have zero roster to beat anyone and I think Sherrod Brown loses next time he comes up for re-election. Then he might run for Governor.

[bigdiggins]

LOL!! Our resident lefty loon is now quoting Jamie Dimon. Think on that for a minute...That man has been viewed by the left as the devil for years and now his words somehow matter as long as they are anti-trump. Why do you think Dimon wants Trump out? He doesn't give 2 shits about unity or respecting election results. He wants market stabilization and the opportunity to collect on that 75 million dollar check that Wall Street wrote to grandpa Joe. The Dems are the party of Wall Street.

And on Jenna Ellis: She's just another lawyer who chose money over principle...the horror!

He's a moderate.

[boozehound]

Meanwhile, we're going to need a separate wing of the Hamilton County Jail devoted to City Council. Both Jeff Pastor and now PG Sittenfeld have been arrested/indicted this month.

Finally, the two parties are working together on something!

[Smails]

Finally, the two parties are working together on something!

I think the feds have their hooks into someone and they are singing like a bird. Lots of paper shredding going on in City Hall right now.. delete...delete..delete

[bobbiemcgee]

Think on that for a minute...That man has been viewed by the left as the devil for years and now his words somehow matter as long as they are anti-trump. So the CEO of America's largest bank is a liar. Got it! Why do you think Dimon wants Trump out? Don't know. He's on tRUMP's Strategic forum. He doesn't give 2 shits about unity or respecting election results. He wants market stabilization and the opportunity to collect on that 75 million dollar check that Wall Street wrote to grandpa Joe. Are you saying the greedy tRUMP wouldn't take the 75 million?? Hilarious. Go back to your blaze website, you'll feel better.



And on Jenna Ellis: She's just another lawyer who chose money over principle...the horror!

As far as Jenna, tRUMP has run out of lawyers who will support him, so he has to scrap the bottom of the barrel. Rudy? Seriously???

[boozehound]

I think the feds have their hooks into someone and they are singing like a bird. Lots of paper shredding going on in City Hall right now.. delete...delete..delete

What I didn't really gather from the article is whether this was related, or just two completely separate instances?

[paulxu]

For months before the election, Trump stoked the fire with bogus claims of fraud. He's got millions of Republicans believing it, as we are weeks past the election. And he still continues it.
After proof of Russian interference in 2016, we set up an organization to safeguard our systems. By all counts they did just that.
So...of course he fires the head of that organization whom his administration had hired...for saying it was a safe election.
So far, the rather strange group of lawyers arguing cases for him:
- are batting 1-29, with the one being move the observers from 10 to 6 feet.
- law firms are bailing on representing him because there don't seem to be serious issues
- no incident of "fraud" has been shown or proven, even for one ballot. Lawyers who file claims alleging fraud, are having to admit to judges in court that there is no fraud...rather some sort of impropriety
- one of his attorneys today said it was a plot by Hugo Chavez, who died I think in 2013.

It seems the hail mary is to get Republican state legislators to name the electors...which is against the law. Maybe the Supreme Court will change the law.

All in all, a shit show. The real loser is the American public whose faith in our system is being undermined. And the results of that will be around for a long time.

[boozehound]

Is Trump really reaching out to low level election officials in Michigan? If so - that should probably be a big deal. I get that apparently nothing Trump does matters to a large group of Republicans, but this should right?

I can't imagine a situation in which the state decides to allocate their electoral votes to Trump despite the fact that he is almost 150K votes behind, but it's still a very bad look for all involved if Trump is communicating with state election officials in the middle of a contested election result.

[Strange Brew]

For months before the election, Trump stoked the fire with bogus claims of fraud. He's got millions of Republicans believing it, as we are weeks past the election. And he still continues it.
After proof of Russian interference in 2016, we set up an organization to safeguard our systems. By all counts they did just that.
So...of course he fires the head of that organization whom his administration had hired...for saying it was a safe election.
So far, the rather strange group of lawyers arguing cases for him:
- are batting 1-29, with the one being move the observers from 10 to 6 feet.
- law firms are bailing on representing him because there don't seem to be serious issues
- no incident of "fraud" has been shown or proven, even for one ballot. Lawyers who file claims alleging fraud, are having to admit to judges in court that there is no fraud...rather some sort of impropriety
- one of his attorneys today said it was a plot by Hugo Chavez, who died I think in 2013.

It seems the hail mary is to get Republican state legislators to name the electors...which is against the law. Maybe the Supreme Court will change the law.

All in all, a shit show. The real loser is the American public whose faith in our system is being undermined. And the results of that will be around for a long time.

Many lost faith in the system due to the collusion investigation and the many affidavits produced to support fraud in the 2020 election.

[Smails]

Quote Originally Posted by Smails View Post
Think on that for a minute...That man has been viewed by the left as the devil for years and now his words somehow matter as long as they are anti-trump. So the CEO of America's largest bank is a liar. Got it! Why do you think Dimon wants Trump out? Don't know. He's on tRUMP's Strategic forum. He doesn't give 2 shits about unity or respecting election results. He wants market stabilization and the opportunity to collect on that 75 million dollar check that Wall Street wrote to grandpa Joe. Are you saying the greedy tRUMP wouldn't take the 75 million?? Hilarious. Go back to your blaze website, you'll feel better.

Relax..remove the tin foil hat and breathe

Yes, the president of the world's largest bank is quite capable of and probably really good at lying. You don't ascend to that type of role by playing nice. And if you don't know why Dimon would want Trump out, I encourage you to get a little more dialed in. Yes, Trump would have gladly taken that 75 million by Wall Street, but he didn't...Joe Biden did. Our president-elect is in bed with wall street and those blue suits are going to come and ask for a returned favor. That's how this whole thing works, even for sinless democrats.

For decades the Democrats have demonized Wall Street as the puppet masters of America's flawed economic system. An economic system that favors the rich and destroys the middle class (their words, not mine). The selective moral outrage in our political system is hillarious and if anyone thinks their party is above the fray, I've got a bridge to sell you. BTW- I've never read the Blaze but I might now since you brought it up.

[Smails]

What I didn't really gather from the article is whether this was related, or just two completely separate instances?

I don't know. It just seems odd that all these council people are getting charged in such a short timeline. A friend of mine (who is somewhat in the know) told me he thinks a local real estate developer was tired of getting shaken down every time he went to council for a permit, so he went to the feds and got all Donny Brasco.

[xubrew]

Many lost faith in the system due to the collusion investigation and the many affidavits produced to support fraud in the 2020 election.

Of those many affidavits that have been produced...any theories as to why none of them have shown up in court?? Or why it is that when Trump's lawyers are asked to present evidence, they don't actually have any??

[GoMuskies]

After today's press conference, I feel like my sportsbook should go ahead and pay me on my Biden bets.

[boozehound]

After today's press conference, I feel like my sportsbook should go ahead and pay me on my Biden bets.

This is usually what you do when you have a strong legal case with lots of evidence, right?

It's hard to believe that the President of the United States of America is orchestrating a shit show like this. Here is a 1 minute taste. It looks like an SNL skit, right down to Rudy Giuliani all hunched over in the background opening a bottled water.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/giuliani-trump-election-fraud-venezuela-b1749911.html

This is really getting embarrassing. When does it end?

[boozehound]

I don't know. It just seems odd that all these council people are getting charged in such a short timeline. A friend of mine (who is somewhat in the know) told me he thinks a local real estate developer was tired of getting shaken down every time he went to council for a permit, so he went to the feds and got all Donny Brasco.

I don't know which would be more corrupt - them all being in the same scheme together, or them all independently being crooked at the same time. I'd imagine it's probably a mix of both, with general environment of everyone taking bribes and kickbacks.

[bigdiggins]

I don't know which would be more corrupt - them all being in the same scheme together, or them all independently being crooked at the same time. I'd imagine it's probably a mix of both, with general environment of everyone taking bribes and kickbacks.

I feel like it's going to be a couple episodes on season 4 of Ozarks.

[Lloyd Braun]

This is usually what you do when you have a strong legal case with lots of evidence, right?

It's hard to believe that the President of the United States of America is orchestrating a shit show like this. Here is a 1 minute taste. It looks like an SNL skit, right down to Rudy Giuliani all hunched over in the background opening a bottled water.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/giuliani-trump-election-fraud-venezuela-b1749911.html

This is really getting embarrassing. When does it end?

Don’t forget this part

https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1329562651287023624?s=10

[Strange Brew]

Thank you President Trump for you’re excellent leadership with Warp Speed. Amazing achievement on your watch while Joe slept and cast doubt on the vaccine.

[bobbiemcgee]

Thanks for losing by 6 million votes. Now release the info to Joe so we can stop this charade, and you can get back to sitting on your ass watching blaze tv and eating Big Macs.

[Strange Brew]

Thanks for losing by 6 million votes. Now release the info to Joe so we can stop this charade, and you can get back to sitting on your ass watching blaze tv and eating Big Macs.

Stop the amazing vaccine?

Don’t watch Blaze or eat Big Macs. But thanks for helping us to heal as a nation.

Bet you’d vote for cancer if it ran against Trump.

Side note: After the details of the rollout given today I hope Joe can comprehend what’s going on.

[MADXSTER]

Since this is the politics thread, what about the Cincinnati councilman PJ Sittenfeld? Arrested by the FBI.

[paulxu]

Side note: After the details of the rollout given today I hope Joe can comprehend what’s going on.

You mean they stopped the 3rd grade tactic of refusing to give him access to intelligence briefings? That's good news.

[paulxu]

It just seems to me that there would be some law against a presidential candidate "summoning" the leaders of a state government to the White House when the state's votes are in the process of being certified.

[Strange Brew]

You mean they stopped the 3rd grade tactic of refusing to give him access to intelligence briefings? That's good news.

At least Trump isn’t spying on Joe’s team and building a case against the transition team. That’s how Leftist Presidents handle a transition of power....

[X-man]

At least Trump isn’t spying on Joe’s team and building a case against the transition team. That’s how Leftist Presidents handle a transition of power....

Proof? You Trumpists keep braying about this, along with all your other conspiracy theories, but have nada to support these allegations. I suppose that the deep state could include everyone but the Trumpists but at that point, the deep state becomes the majority of this country which is still (and hopefully remains in spite of Trump's best efforts) a democracy.

[X-man]

Hilarious that "Common Man of the People" Joe Biden was propped up by $74 million dolllars in donations from Wall Street- much more than Trump.
Funny how the Elite runs to the support of the Elite. Meanwhile, the proletariat worker gets dismissed.

But Joe proclaimed: "We'll make sure Wall Street and the big earners pay their fair share!" Ha!! No, who will be paying a bigger part of their unfair share are little investors who are trying to make a buck on the stock that they bought and have to pay a much higher Capital Gains tax, not the brokers who sold them the stock.

The Wall Street elite know this, and that's why they and Biden could give a sheet about the "little guy" while they're drinking their fancy drinks in lower Manhattan bars.

At various times on this thread, you have claimed that Biden is part of the "radical left", a radical Socialist. Now he's in Wall Street's pocket??? How can he be both? Are you saying that Wall Street love radical socialists? I don't understand.

[boozehound]

Don’t forget this part

https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1329562651287023624?s=10

That part actually went on for much longer than that clip, too. I watched about 1/2 of the Press Conference last night - holy moly! It really didn't look/seem real. Apparently according to Tucker Carlson they were planning to have that Syndey Powell lady in this show, but when they asked her to produce some evidence to support her claims she became angry and told them to stop contacting her.

But the best part was the hair dye running down Guiliani's cheeks while he sweated and bathed himself in his own mucus. These people are ostensibly dropping the biggest bombshell in American History - A successful plot to steel the election involving (but not limited to) Chavez's Ghost, China, and George Soros. Tens of millions of votes changed or stolen! The biggest bombshell in American history! They are doing it from what looks like a basement room in the RNC led by Rudy Giuliani who apparently can't afford sweat proof hair dye, and a couple of 3rd rate conspiracy theorist lawyers. With no evidence.

[xubrew]

We really do seem to be sinking into a shit hole. We have too many Americans who think...

-COVID isn't real or dangerous

-The election was stolen

-Yelling at people who are eating lunch is a an acceptable and effective method of social change

-Aren't at all suspicious of a group of people who "have all this evidence!" yet when asked to produce it never do so

-Fear that socialism is a threat to our democracy, yet are more spooked by the EU than they are by Russia (this has actually puzzled me for years, BTW)

-STILL believe that Trump rigged the last election. I mean if the last two weeks have shown us anything it's that he clearly isn't capable of doing something like that. If he's this bad at stealing an election while he's president, then there is no way he stole the 2016 Election before he even became president.

-Who view political opponents as domestic terrorists to the point to where differing political opinions have ended friendships and split families apart

-Who have their views of reality shaped by social media instead of realizing that most of it is total fucking nonsense. I think the pandemic has actually made this worse because more people spend more time staring at a screen and believing more and more of the bullshit that's on it


I remember being astounded at how stupid I thought people who believed pro wrestling was real were. By comparison, that actually wasn't so bad. Some of the shit that people believe now is far less believable than pro wrestling, and at the same time is far more harmful. I've got no problems with wrestling. I don't watch it all that often, but when I do I admit that I find it to be entertaining. But that's also in large part because I understand the context of it. The bullshit that people are alllowing themselves to believe right now is going to puzzle historians for the next thousand years.

[boozehound]

This is my new favorite picture of all time.

https://i.imgur.com/BqQw5qq.jpg

Edit: I don't think this has been doctored...

[Strange Brew]

Proof? You Trumpists keep braying about this, along with all your other conspiracy theories, but have nada to support these allegations. I suppose that the deep state could include everyone but the Trumpists but at that point, the deep state becomes the majority of this country which is still (and hopefully remains in spite of Trump's best efforts) a democracy.

The proof is plain to see. Do your own research.

This country isn’t a democracy but thanks for playing.

[X-man]

The proof is plain to see. Do your own research.

This country isn’t a democracy but thanks for playing.

"Plain to see"??? Sort of like Trump's fraud evidence? Generally it's a good idea to have some evidence when you level such charges. Trump's problem, and yours by extension, is that there isn't any. And as far as this country not being a democracy, only someone (Trump, and you by extension?) determined to overturn an election result by ignoring the clear voting outcome in choosing electors for the Electoral College vote is working to make that statement true. Fortunately, the corruption destroying the Republican Party seems limited to the partisans in Washington, along with you by extension. But as you like to say...Thanks for playing.

[xubrew]

This is my new favorite picture of all time.

https://i.imgur.com/BqQw5qq.jpg

Edit: I don't think this has been doctored...

When a person who looks like this tells you everything is fine...EVERYTHING IS NOT FINE!!!!!

[Mrs. Garrett]

The proof is plain to see. Do your own research.

This country isn’t a democracy but thanks for playing.

You really put the Strange in Strange Brew

[Strange Brew]

You really put the Strange in Strange Brew

Thank you?

[Masterofreality]

At various times on this thread, you have claimed that Biden is part of the "radical left", a radical Socialist. Now he's in Wall Street's pocket??? How can he be both? Are you saying that Wall Street love radical socialists? I don't understand.

Welp, Biden DID pick the most leftist and Socialist Democratic Senator to be his running mate- the same one who supports Police Defunding, Bailing out Rioters through a Fund, the Green New Deal and Supreme Court Packing. There's that. Plus he did get ridiculous jack from Wall Street. Seems to me that either you, or he or both are the ones that talk out of both sides of their mouth and are 'confused". I have no clue what Wall Street likes, but Biden sure isn't thye common man he portrays himself to be. Doubt he'll be out there "Occupying Wall Street" anytime soon, unless its to line his pocket.

[STL_XUfan]

Welp, Biden DID pick the most leftist and Socialist Democratic Senator to be his running mate

https://assets.forwardcdn.com/images/cropped/bernie-sanders-tweets-1550605183.jpg

[Masterofreality]

https://assets.forwardcdn.com/images/cropped/bernie-sanders-tweets-1550605183.jpg

Kamala Harris was rated the "Most Liberal" Senator by GovTrack.us. Because she is.

https://govtrackinsider.com/our-ideology-score-placed-kamala-harris-as-the-most-liberal-senator-in-2019-bbd25493ca72

Anyway, along with the fact that she is, Sanders identifies as an "Independent", but "caucuses with Democrats. So whatever.

[X-man]

Welp, Biden DID pick the most leftist and Socialist Democratic Senator to be his running mate- the same one who supports Police Defunding, Bailing out Rioters through a Fund, the Green New Deal and Supreme Court Packing. There's that. Plus he did get ridiculous jack from Wall Street. Seems to me that either you, or he or both are the ones that talk out of both sides of their mouth and are 'confused". I have no clue what Wall Street likes, but Biden sure isn't thye common man he portrays himself to be. Doubt he'll be out there "Occupying Wall Street" anytime soon, unless its to line his pocket.

You still haven't addressed my basic question. If Wall Street is in love with Biden, does that mean that they love his "radical Socialist agenda" or does it mean that they believe that Biden is fundamentally a centrist in spite of his pick for VP?

[paulxu]

to be his running mate- the same one who supports Police Defunding,

Google and respected fact checkers are your friends. People who make stuff up and you happen to see on twitter, are not.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-kamala-harris-police-tweet/fact-check-fabricated-kamala-harris-tweet-on-removing-cop-account-from-instagram-idUSKBN26Q220

[Masterofreality]

Google and respected fact checkers are your friends. People who make stuff up and you happen to see on twitter, are not.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-kamala-harris-police-tweet/fact-check-fabricated-kamala-harris-tweet-on-removing-cop-account-from-instagram-idUSKBN26Q220

“Respected “fact checkers” is an oxymoron. Are you actually denying that Harris didn’t support a Funding account to bail rioters out of Minneapolis jails? Rioters who never returned for their court hearings?
Yeah, some “supporter of law enforcement” Paul.

[Masterofreality]

You still haven't addressed my basic question. If Wall Street is in love with Biden, does that mean that they love his "radical Socialist agenda" or does it mean that they believe that Biden is fundamentally a centrist in spite of his pick for VP?

It’s not on me to address that question. How would I know what “Wall Street” thinks or loves? Why don’t you address that question to the Wall Street fat cats that shoveled $74 million dollars into “Common Man” Biden’s campaign. You know. The guy who portrays himself as the champion of the little guy. (But will raise the little guy’s taxes by trying to end Trump’s tax cuts and screw the little guy who wants to sell his stock by drastically raising the Cap Gains tax on said stock sale?)

[paulxu]

“Respected “fact checkers” is an oxymoron. Are you actually denying that Harris didn’t support a Funding account to bail rioters out of Minneapolis jails? Rioters who never returned for their court hearings?
Yeah, some “supporter of law enforcement” Paul.

You said she supported defunding the police (see your quote above). Clearly she doesn't. So you move on to another point.

[Strange Brew]

You still haven't addressed my basic question. If Wall Street is in love with Biden, does that mean that they love his "radical Socialist agenda" or does it mean that they believe that Biden is fundamentally a centrist in spite of his pick for VP?

Socialism involves govt control of industry. Joe is a huge proponent of indirect control through regulations which benefit large corps and Wall Street, squeezing competition from smaller firms. He’s the modern Socialist in that he believes in govt control thru velvet gloved Fascism.

The Left has destroyed the definition of Fascism by equating it with Nazis, who were by their own definition National Socialists. Yes, the Nazis hated Commies but they both did not like Capitalists. Before you start, Stalin was an ally out of necessity to keep the Germans occupied in a two front war. He raged against Capitalist immediately after its conclusion.

Keep in mind that the Red revolution was fought against the czar who was about as pro capitalist as any European govt was at the time. Most of Western Europe was still mired in Feudal Monarchies at the time (late 19th, early 20th century).

The American left borrows much of its governing philosophies from mid 20th century Europe and not that of the American Constitutional Republic (it’s not a Democracy). Hence, many who ascribe to the American form of govt view the Left in terms of Socialism with a hint of Fascism knowing the end goal of the Left is an authoritarian mixture of mid 19th century European governance.

[Lloyd Braun]

First Trump was a fascist, not Biden is. I can’t keep up, not sure how Antifa does it.

[Strange Brew]

First Trump was a fascist, not Biden is. I can’t keep up, not sure how Antifa does it.

Didn’t say Biden was a Fascist in the terms Antifa misuses the word.

[Lloyd Braun]

Didn’t say Biden was a Fascist in the terms Antifa misuses the word.

You did call him a fascist though... Next week Biden will be a xenophobic racist. See my point yet?

[bobbiemcgee]

Rump's lawyer Sidney Powell: "The entire election, frankly, in all the swing states should be overturned and the legislatures should make sure that the electors are selected for Trump"

Simple solution to all future elections if you lose by 6 million.

[paulxu]

You say Minnesota...I say Michigan.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/giuliani-michigan-minnesota-voter-fraud-mistake_n_5fb84237c5b680f7c38baebc

Not much mystery about why all these lawsuits are thrown out.

[X-man]

Socialism involves govt control of industry. Joe is a huge proponent of indirect control through regulations which benefit large corps and Wall Street, squeezing competition from smaller firms. He’s the modern Socialist in that he believes in govt control thru velvet gloved Fascism.

The Left has destroyed the definition of Fascism by equating it with Nazis, who were by their own definition National Socialists. Yes, the Nazis hated Commies but they both did not like Capitalists. Before you start, Stalin was an ally out of necessity to keep the Germans occupied in a two front war. He raged against Capitalist immediately after its conclusion.

Keep in mind that the Red revolution was fought against the czar who was about as pro capitalist as any European govt was at the time. Most of Western Europe was still mired in Feudal Monarchies at the time (late 19th, early 20th century).

The American left borrows much of its governing philosophies from mid 20th century Europe and not that of the American Constitutional Republic (it’s not a Democracy). Hence, many who ascribe to the American form of govt view the Left in terms of Socialism with a hint of Fascism knowing the end goal of the Left is an authoritarian mixture of mid 19th century European governance.
Still waiting for your proof of the serious charges you make against the Obama administration and about Biden. Unless you can supply something...anything?...climb back into your Fox...hole. But hey...Thanks for playing.

[Strange Brew]

Still waiting for your proof of the serious charges you make against the Obama administration and about Biden. Unless you can supply something...anything?...climb back into your Fox...hole. But hey...Thanks for playing.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/six-examples-obama-administration-spying-trump-cam/

That took about 5 seconds.

[Strange Brew]

You did call him a fascist though... Next week Biden will be a xenophobic racist. See my point yet?

Sure, he’s a mix of European Socialism/Fascism. Fascism is a form of governmental economics. I don’t think he’s like Benito or Franco in the sense of authoritarianism however many Leftist are. See Antifa for an example. I think that group of black shirts is trying to be ironic. I hope so because if they were anti Fascist they’d be Capitalist.

[X-man]

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/six-examples-obama-administration-spying-trump-cam/

That took about 5 seconds.

That's your "evidence"??? Guess you didn't hear that both Flynn and Page were suspected of having questionable interactions with Russians and then, ay least in the case of Flynn, lying about it (Newsflash: Flynn confessed).

[Lloyd Braun]

Sure, he’s a mix of European Socialism/Fascism. Fascism is a form of governmental economics. I don’t think he’s like Benito or Franco in the sense of authoritarianism however many Leftist are. See Antifa for an example. I think that group of black shirts is trying to be ironic. I hope so because if they were anti Fascist they’d be Capitalist.

Idk seems like a stretch to call Biden a velvet gloved fascist. I think it’s just trying to move the goalposts to apply a negative term to a political figure. Same goes for Trump. Do you think Trump was a fascist like Biden is?

[paulxu]

The grift is increasing. Now the first 75% of your "election defense fund" dollar goes to the Trump PAC, and 25% to the RNC, until you reach $8000.

Buy more hats! (that's PT Barnum you hear chuckling in the background)

[bobbiemcgee]

Senators who preached "let the voters decide" don't seem to be of that persuasion anymore. Not surprising.

[Strange Brew]

That's your "evidence"??? Guess you didn't hear that both Flynn and Page were suspected of having questionable interactions with Russians and then, ay least in the case of Flynn, lying about it (Newsflash: Flynn confessed).

He lied to protect his son on another drummed up charge to disrupt the transition team. Please explains what interactions were questionable during the transition. Pretty sure Biden's team and Obama's team are/did do the same thing. Also, questionable is not illegal.

[bobbiemcgee]

He lied..... Please explains what interactions were questionable during the transition.

Here 'ya go:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Flynn_statement_of_offense.pdf

[Strange Brew]

Here 'ya go:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Flynn_statement_of_offense.pdf

Sure but was his conduct he was questioned about illegal? I’ll save you time. It’s not.

[paulxu]

Sure but was his conduct he was questioned about illegal? I’ll save you time. It’s not.

A private citizen reaching out to a foreign government to influence them (in this case in contradiction of our sanctions) is an illegal act.

18 U.S. Code § 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments

Filing false statement on a FARA form is also illegal.

[Strange Brew]

A private citizen reaching out to a foreign government to influence them (in this case in contradiction of our sanctions) is an illegal act.

18 U.S. Code § 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments

Filing false statement on a FARA form is also illegal.

Flynn was a general and part of Trumps transition team (Obama’s team as well). Sure hope none of Biden’s people contact a foreign govt until Jan.

[bobbiemcgee]

Judge dismisses PA suit with prejudice:
"You're alleging that the two individual plaintiffs were denied the right to vote. But at bottom, you're asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the Commonwealth. Could you tell me how this result could possibly be justified?"

Rudy: Mickey Mouse voted a lot.

[Strange Brew]

Judge dismisses PA suit with prejudice:
"You're alleging that the two individual plaintiffs were denied the right to vote. But at bottom, you're asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the Commonwealth. Could you tell me how this result could possibly be justified?"

Rudy: Mickey Mouse voted a lot.

Fast track to SCOTUS...

[X-man]

Fast track to SCOTUS...

You are channeling Trump. But the request is so clearly bogus that it will be laughed out of court at every level. Thank God only DC Republicans, and people like you, are so corrupt while state and local level Republicans (along with the Judiciary) take their Constitutional duties far more seriously.

[Strange Brew]

You are channeling Trump. But the request is so clearly bogus that it will be laughed out of court at every level. Thank God only DC Republicans, and people like you, are so corrupt while state and local level Republicans (along with the Judiciary) take their Constitutional duties far more seriously.

Cool. Then you have nothing to worry about right?

[STL_XUfan]

Cool. Then you have nothing to worry about right?
Zero to worry about. I would be shocked if the Supreme Court even took the case.

[paulxu]

Today's comic relief:
I guess Sidney Powell's wackadoodle conspiracy stuff was even too much for them. Hugo Chavez orchestrating from the grave, etc.
On a side note, I think she's Michael Flynn's attorney.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EndgPVgXIAcQZJe?format=jpg&name=900x900

[bobbiemcgee]

Somebody should tell Drumpf....ohhhh...."Mr Trump himself had cited Ms Powell as part of his “team” spearheading the “legal effort” around the elections a week ago." He was possibly not telling the truth. Someone should tell Lou Dobbs who loved her bizarre conspiracy theories. And somebody wake up Hugo Chavez. we need him to testify.

[X-man]

Cool. Then you have nothing to worry about right?

Certainly not worried about the outcome of this election. I am worried about all the people, like you, who apparently buy all the deep state and conspiracy nonsense.

[xuwillie]

And just like all the liberals saying Russia helped trump win for 4 years now. Did you actually think trump and most republicans where goring to forget all about that when/if he lost this election ?

[xubrew]

And just like all the liberals saying Russia helped trump win for 4 years now. Did you actually think trump and most republicans where goring to forget all about that when/if he lost this election ?

You're putting the liberal nut job reality deniers into the same category as the actual candidates and elected officials. No losing candidate from either party that I know of tried to claim that the election they lost was rigged.

But, you did confirm that Trump and his and his need-to-be-lobotomized supporters have just as much lead in their brains as they psychotic shit-show on the left that yells at people who are trying to have lunch about how Russia stole the 2016 election. So....thanks for that??

[xuwillie]

I'm not saying either side is correct but are you saying the house acted in the best interest of the American People the last 4 years?! Liberal Elected officials have acted like complete babies...

[xubrew]

I'm not saying either side is correct but are you saying the house acted in the best interest of the American People the last 4 years?! Liberal Elected officials have acted like complete babies...

When it comes to how the house acted, I didn't say anything one way or the other. How the hell did you pull that pile of shit out of what I actually said?? And, what relevance does it have to what I actually said??

[Mrs. Garrett]

And just like all the liberals saying Russia helped trump win for 4 years now. Did you actually think trump and most republicans where goring to forget all about that when/if he lost this election ?

Didn't Trump start the whole "election is rigged" before the 2016 election when he thought he was going to lose? And then continued with it because he lost the popular vote.

[GoMuskies]

I'm sure Trump did. It's just that the "other side" isn't exactly a great choice on this particular score, either. I prefer to avoid whataboutism. There's no defending Trump here. It's beyond silly season at this point. The Democrats sucking does not make Trump and his band suck any less.

[Smails]

You're putting the liberal nut job reality deniers into the same category as the actual candidates and elected officials. No losing candidate from either party that I know of tried to claim that the election they lost was rigged.


Former Secretary of State and Democratic nominee for POTUS said this:

“ he knows he’s an illegitimate president,” she said. “I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.”

and this:

Clinton compared her election loss to “applying for a job and getting 66 million letters of recommendation and losing to a corrupt human tornado. And so I know that he knows that this wasn’t on the level. I don’t know that we’ll ever know what happened.”

Just sayin..

[xubrew]

Former Secretary of State and Democratic nominee for POTUS said this:

“ he knows he’s an illegitimate president,” she said. “I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.”

and this:

Clinton compared her election loss to “applying for a job and getting 66 million letters of recommendation and losing to a corrupt human tornado. And so I know that he knows that this wasn’t on the level. I don’t know that we’ll ever know what happened.”

Just sayin..

Okay, she was whining. I'm not going to argue that she wasn't. And yes, that was a little ridiculous, but she never tried to have the election overturned by filing dozens utterly nonsensical lawsuits. That goes so far over, above, and beyond whining that it's silly to compare the two things as being at all similar.

[noteggs]

Let me get this straight. If I lived in Oregon, I can get a possible $1,250 fine and a month in jail for having more than six people at my house for Thanksgiving. But, if I get caught with heroine or LSD, I can avoid jail time? Interesting

[xubrew]

Let me get this straight. If I lived in Oregon, I can get a possible $1,250 fine and a month in jail for having more than six people at my house for Thanksgiving. But, if I get caught with heroine or LSD, I can avoid jail time? Interesting

These people that go around from house to house kicking peoples' extended family members out on Thanksgiving....

Is that something you have to sign up and pay for? Or do they just do that for free!!??

[Smails]

Okay, she was whining. I'm not going to argue that she wasn't. And yes, that was a little ridiculous, but she never tried to have the election overturned by filing dozens utterly nonsensical lawsuits. That goes so far over, above, and beyond whining that it's silly to compare the two things as being at all similar.

That's fair. Just refuting that nobody ever 'claimed' a rigged election. She whines with a microphone..he whines with a 'crack legal team'

[Smails]

These people that go around from house to house kicking peoples' extended family members out on Thanksgiving....

Is that something you have to sign up and pay for? Or do they just do that for free!!??

I swear there's a woman in our neighborhood who hates everyone..adults, teens, little kids, dogs, cats. She wold have a field day turning people in if she had the chance. It would be the greatest day of her life.

[bobbiemcgee]

I swear there's a woman in our neighborhood who hates everyone..adults, teens, little kids, dogs, cats. She would have a field day turning people in if she had the chance. It would be the greatest day of her life.

You live near Fired Up Karen?

[X-band '01]

Motion to freeze this thread on Wednesday when Xavier tips off with Oakland.

[94GRAD]

Motion to freeze this thread on Wednesday when Xavier tips off with Oakland.

I'm going to post Basketball stuff on this thread Wednesday hoping to derail it.

[STL_XUfan]

I'm going to post Basketball stuff on this thread Wednesday hoping to derail it.
I think names on the backs of jerseys should go above the numbers, and I will not entertain any Marxist that thinks otherwise.

[Strange Brew]

I think names on the backs of jerseys should go above the numbers, and I will not entertain any Marxist that thinks otherwise.

Who is in the starting 5? Haven’t even looked yet. Still enjoying NDs season so far.

[Masterofreality]

The transition is underway.

So the 234,657,879,621th conspiracy theory from the Left and their sensationalist news media buddies about what was going to happen during the Trump presidency has now been debunked.

But some just can't get off their Orange Man Bad train. I anxiously await what they are going to occupy their time with on January 21.

Hint. It will be nap taking as Biden allows China to achieve world domination and the Senate blocks every stupid leftist initiative.

I am Ok with the Janet Yellen appointment tho. The rest of them is a return to the swamp.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/702961030624172

[Lamont Sanford]

The transition is underway.

So the 234,657,879,621th conspiracy theory from the Left and their sensationalist news media buddies about what was going to happen during the Trump presidency has now been debunked.

But some just can't get off their Orange Man Bad train. I anxiously await what they are going to occupy their time with on January 21.

Hint. It will be nap taking as Biden allows China to achieve world domination and the Senate blocks every stupid leftist initiative.

I am Ok with the Janet Yellen appointment tho. The rest of them is a return to the swamp.

Welcome to Obama 3.0, folks.

[paulxu]

Go and Nigel, what's the line on Trump pardoning himself, or resigning to have Pence do it, for federal crimes?

Bump.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gaetz-urges-trump-to-go-wild-with-pardons-including-a-self-pardon-to-own-the-libs

Go...did you ever get your money from the Sportsbook?

[GoMuskies]

Bump.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gaetz-urges-trump-to-go-wild-with-pardons-including-a-self-pardon-to-own-the-libs

Go...did you ever get your money from the Sportsbook?

Not yet. They've got a TON of Trump bets, and they certainly don't want to take the risk of ending up having to pay both, so they're being extra cautious, which I understand. I think the electors get together and make it official in a couple of weeks, and I assume I will have to wait for that.

[GoMuskies]

I kind of like the idea of Trump going crazy with the pardons, though. Not for the people Gaetz mentioned, but there are a lot of people in prison who don't really need to be there. If he wants to "own the libs" by pardoning a bunch of victims of Biden's crime bill, that's the kind of owning I could get down with.

[paulxu]

What happens to you if you are a decent Republican, trying to do a good job.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/11/25/georgia-secretary-of-state-election-integrity-2020-column/6407586002/

[paulxu]

Iran Contra redux.

[Strange Brew]

Iran Contra redux.

You have to be a special kind of jerk if this is about Flynn. It’s not like Trump pardoned a terrorist.

[bobbiemcgee]

Judge said "Arguably you sold your country out." What a patriot.

[Strange Brew]

Judge said "Arguably you sold your country out." What a patriot.

Judge Sullivan? Thanks for proving my point.

Edit: Sullivan was forced to apologize for that statement BTW.

[bobbiemcgee]

Just a couple more months of this corruption until Don and Ispanka get charged for fraud in NY.

[Strange Brew]

Just a couple more months of this corruption until Don and Ispanka get charged for fraud in NY.

Well, that’s their private business. Not sure how it improves your life.

[bobbiemcgee]

Would make me very happy to see him on a chain gang. The dumbo's holiday covid message: "I encourage all Americans to gather, in homes and places of worship............" Duh.

[Strange Brew]

Dow 30k!

Passing Obama’s gains in less than 4 years! Obama could do as well as Trump and he had 8 years!

[bobbiemcgee]

yes up 2900 since Biden got elected. Donny said it would crash.

[Strange Brew]

yes up 2900 since Biden got elected. Donny said it would crash.

Trumps still president. We’ll see how things fare when Joe wakes up and does something for the first time in nearly 50 years of gov’t.

[paulxu]

Some people get grifted for $25 and a red hat.

Others however.....https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-26/pro-trump-group-donor-sues-over-failure-to-expose-election-fraud?srnd=premium

[paulxu]

Trump appears poised to use propaganda to a level not seen in America since the days of Joe McCarthy, if at all. It already seems that he has little regard for facts, and that many of his followers don't know or don't care. Now he seems to be creating a Propaganda minister. This is escalating quickly.

Booze, you wrote this 4 years ago. It has aged well:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/gop-silence-trump-false-election-claims-mccarthy/index.html

Which of course leads to stuff like this. Hopefully some nut job doesn't decide to put this into action:


Joe diGenova, an attorney for Trump's campaign, said during an appearance on "The Howie Carr Show": "Anybody who thinks the election went well, like that idiot Krebs who used to be the head of cybersecurity. That guy is a class A moron. He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot."

[boozehound]

Booze, you wrote this 4 years ago. It has aged well:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/gop-silence-trump-false-election-claims-mccarthy/index.html

Which of course leads to stuff like this. Hopefully some nut job doesn't decide to put this into action:

The Presidency went about how I expected it would, but the election and events post election are MUCH worse. You have, by some accounts, 70% of Republicans (I'm not sure I think the number is actually that high - I'm not sure how they are selecting respondents for their polls) who think that there was massive electoral fraud despite no evidence simply because Trump (and a hair dye streaked Rudy Giuliani) say so. I'm surprised by the amount of people that seem to be buying into this lunacy, and very concerned at the blueprint it provides for future populists with political ambitions.

Significant damage has been, and continues to be, done to our faith in the Democratic process. This Presidency has done far more lasting damage than any kind of good.

[xubrew]

The Presidency went about how I expected it would, but the election and events post election are MUCH worse. You have, by some accounts, 70% of Republicans (I'm not sure I think the number is actually that high - I'm not sure how they are selecting respondents for their polls) who think that there was massive electoral fraud despite no evidence simply because Trump (and a hair dye streaked Rudy Giuliani) say so. I'm surprised by the amount of people that seem to be buying into this lunacy, and very concerned at the blueprint it provides for future populists with political ambitions.

Significant damage has been, and continues to be, done to our faith in the Democratic process. This Presidency has done far more lasting damage than any kind of good.

The one realization I have arrived at is just how many people there are out there who are susceptible to becoming cult members. I've always thought that it's part of human nature to easily believe what you want to believe, and easily dismiss what you don't want to believe. Being able to overcome that and admit that the facts don't back up what you want to believe is something that we are capable of. But, being able to ignore the facts and continuing to stick with what you want to believe no matter how obviously false or absurd it is is also something we are capable of. That's kind of what we are seeing now. Yes, that is disturbing. I think it may actually be more plausible to argue that Santa Claus is real than it is to argue that Trump really won the election.

[paulxu]

When the grift works...keep grifting.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-trump-has-raised-more-than-150m-on-election-fraud-propaganda

[boozehound]

The one realization I have arrived at is just how many people there are out there who are susceptible to becoming cult members. I've always thought that it's part of human nature to easily believe what you want to believe, and easily dismiss what you don't want to believe. Being able to overcome that and admit that the facts don't back up what you want to believe is something that we are capable of. But, being able to ignore the facts and continuing to stick with what you want to believe no matter how obviously false or absurd it is is also something we are capable of. That's kind of what we are seeing now. Yes, that is disturbing. I think it may actually be more plausible to argue that Santa Claus is real than it is to argue that Trump really won the election.

I agree. It's an easy cult, too. He isn't even asking you to let him sleep with you wives and daughters (yet). All you have to do is vote for him, and worship him. That's it. He'll even tell you that you're great, and all your problems are someone else's fault.

What I think is going to be profoundly interesting is to see if there is any real blowback for the Republican party post-Trump. They have basically been cuckolded by Trump for 4 years now. You don't have to look any further than the annual budget deficit by year to see how the once fiscally conservative and responsible Republican party has been co-opted. We aren't that far removed from the Tea Party refusing to vote for any legislature that increased spending without a corresponding offset. I actually respected those guys (although I thought they took it to a pretty extreme degree).

So where do you go from here? They still have a Senate Majority (and I think they will keep it), and the electoral map is favorable to Republicans so they should be in decent shape. The Democrats are a fragmented mess and I don't think they are likely to coalesce around a moderate platform any time soon (which they need to, IMO). This is where I think that they undermining of the elections may really hurt Republicans. If all the new Trump voters don't vote because they think the process is rigged and it doesn't matter anyways, that could be problem for them, particularly in midterm and down ballot races. If they can somehow keep that engagement I think it may become the secret sauce.

[bobbiemcgee]

Hmmm,, so the pres. is going down to GA to tell 'pubs to vote in another rigged and fraudulent election that can't possibly go their way. They should be so excited. Yeah.

[paulxu]

Lou Dobbs absolutely loses it over Bill Barr saying there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, accusing Barr of joining "the Deep State and the Resistance" before saying this:

"He is either a liar or a fool or both. He may be – perhaps compromised."

The last time Lou Dobbs did this, Trump fired the head of election security the next day by tweet. (He had said we had an election free of fraud)

Will Trump fire Barr?

[paulxu]

There's your typical sucker grift, where you send money to what you think is a legal defense fun, and it really goes to Trump's PAC that he can use like he wants. Small donations...you get a red hat.

Then there's big boy grift, where you might get a presidential pardon.


The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the White House or related political committee in exchange for a presidential pardon, according to court records unsealed Tuesday in federal court.
The case is the latest legal twist in the waning days of President Donald Trump's administration after several of his top advisers have been convicted of federal criminal charges and as the possibility rises of Trump giving pardons to those who've been loyal to him.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/presidential-pardon-justice-department/index.html

[bobbiemcgee]

When the grift works...keep grifting.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-trump-has-raised-more-than-150m-on-election-fraud-propaganda

Pay for Pardons?

[bobbiemcgee]

Well MOR should be ecstatic. The 'pubs are impeaching DeWine.

[boozehound]

Lou Dobbs absolutely loses it over Bill Barr saying there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, accusing Barr of joining "the Deep State and the Resistance" before saying this:

"He is either a liar or a fool or both. He may be – perhaps compromised."

The last time Lou Dobbs did this, Trump fired the head of election security the next day by tweet. (He had said we had an election free of fraud)

Will Trump fire Barr?

What the hell happened to Lou Dobbs? Didn't he used to be a legitimate journalist?

[X-band '01]

Well MOR should be ecstatic. The 'pubs are impeaching DeWine.

You mean 3 butthurt GOP House members suggested this back in August - two of which actually got primaried.

[Strange Brew]

Pay for Pardons?

Marc Rich would like his money back but Comey protected Willie.

[Lamont Sanford]

Pay for Pardons?

Yeah, the sanctimonious Dems would NEVER do that. (Sarcasm font)

Child please.

[Bad Billy Pratt]

Well MOR should be ecstatic. The 'pubs are impeaching DeWine.

You are something else - guess you are missing the part where multiple small business have closed as a result of the shutdowns - which are proving to be how effective? And many more will soon be following, hard to pay bills with no revenue.

People's livelihoods ruined, a lifetime of work down the drain, jobs lost and people now unemployed - keep waving the banner chief, cause you are one of the WOKE.

[bobbiemcgee]

Nice rant. Had nothing to do with the topic. I'm sure you'd like to take back your vote for DeWine. Better luck next time.

[bobbiemcgee]

You mean 3 butthurt GOP House members suggested this back in August - two of which actually got primaried.

They filed the articles of impeachment yesterday. Duh.

[Masterofreality]

When the grift works...keep grifting.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-trump-has-raised-more-than-150m-on-election-fraud-propaganda

You are talking about those Lincoln Project guys right?

Failed Republican "strategists" who hated Trump from day one, collected tens of millions of dollars from "woke" Democrats (who were stupid enough to play into their act) and parlayed their scam onto MSNBC and CNN as "reformed conservatives". They'll now be thrown out with the bath water now that their one trick pony message is gonna be out of the White House in January. They and those Bulwark guys are gonna try to keep the grift going, but their day is done.

[Bad Billy Pratt]

Nice rant. Had nothing to do with the topic. I'm sure you'd like to take back your vote for DeWine. Better luck next time.

Thanks! I’ll take that as meaning you have no rebuttal.

Working with small businesses I hear it daily. But keep pontificating, you do it so well.

[Masterofreality]

Thanks! I’ll take that as meaning you have no rebuttal.

Working with small businesses I hear it daily. But keep pontificating, you do it so well.

And why would I be ecstatic?

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe because I have no info and no opinion for the situation in Ohio but assume the Gov. is listening to the public health experts. Geesh. All I did was report the republicans are impeaching their republican Governor which I should have posted in "Funny Stuff". I could really careless if he comes or goes.

[bobbiemcgee]

And why would I be ecstatic?

Maybe because you badmouthed DeWine in the Covid thread nonstop?

[boozehound]

Maybe because you badmouthed DeWine in the Covid thread nonstop?

I think it was daily for a while there.

[paulxu]

It seems to me that Trump holding White House Christmas parties with mostly unmasked people during a pandemic, is somewhat akin to Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

[Xville]

Wonder what is going to happen to this thread when biden takes office? Like there is an entire economy that has been dedicated to taking down trump for 4 years, there is about 4 or 5 people here that are going to find a ton of free time available to them when they can't post every time trump makes a bowel movement. We should probably hold a vigil for them.

[paulxu]

I, for one, would welcome the free time.
Our country has had to suffer this whiny bully and his nonsense long enough.

[bjf123]

I’m wondering what the late night hosts and comedians are going to talk about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snipe]

They should permanently close this thread.

[bobbiemcgee]

[QUOTE=Xville;685839 We should probably hold a vigil for them.[/QUOTE]

Light a candle for yourself with your bs posts. Besides, looks like your boy is going into a 4 yr. new campaign, so the fun has just started.

[Xville]

Light a candle for yourself with your bs posts. Besides, looks like your boy is going into a 4 yr. new campaign, so the fun has just started.

Uh oh triggered

[Nigel Tufnel]

I don't even care about the Georgia run off Senate elections. But after watching X win, thought I'd watch 10-15 minutes. Am I out of mind, or did Loeffler lady remind you exactly like a Fem-Bot from an Austin Powers' movie? I was waiting for her to start opening rounds on people from her bra.

I drank heavily during the Shootout..so I could be dead wrong.

[paulxu]

Or dead if she hit you !

[GoMuskies]

I would be perfectly okay if we eliminated the death penalty in the United States. That being said, I can kind of get behind the current streak of putting down animals going on by the feds.

[Masterofreality]

Maybe because you badmouthed DeWine in the Covid thread nonstop?

I was referring to lockdowns going on too long-which they were. Yeah!! All those lockdowns everywhere including NY, California, Ohio and other places really worked right? We see the uh, results, of how those economically damaging lockdowns worked now, right? Everybody is healthy and Covid is gone, right? That 10pm bar closing rule sure has worked, right?
Even DeWine isn't stupid enough to go back to those again.

BTW. Biden's "plan" to stop this virus is....huh....EXACTLY what Trump has been doing. No wonder Biden wouldn't disclose his "plan" before the election. He didn't have an original idea in his scrambled head. Carry on..

[Masterofreality]

Wonder what is going to happen to this thread when biden takes office? Like there is an entire economy that has been dedicated to taking down trump for 4 years, there is about 4 or 5 people here that are going to find a ton of free time available to them when they can't post every time trump makes a bowel movement. We should probably hold a vigil for them.

Yep.

Here and the #ResistanceTwitter will be crickets. As will the "Watchdog Press". Get ready for a 4 year nap from Main stream media ignoring significant stories, like the Swallwell FuckSpy one and the attempted quashing of Hunter Biden's business dealings. Kind hard to ignore them when the FBI is investigating tho.

[Masterofreality]

I, for one, would welcome the free time.
Our country has had to suffer this whiny bully and his nonsense long enough.

The whiny bully was decimated by false narratives- none of which were true and have been proven false- and a main stream media that perpetrated their Leftist buddies' untrue accusations. Blame them

[paulxu]

The whiny bully was decimated by false narratives- none of which were true and have been proven false- and a main stream media that perpetrated their Leftist buddies' untrue accusations. Blame them

He was decimated by his own words, most of which (20,000+) were false for sure.
He continues even as we chat.

[tacopizza885]

Just curious how some on this board would reply to this Pastor's opinion. I haven't done a ton of research on his background or previous work, just know he's also an author. With that said, I'm sure he's been targeted, discredited, and diminished in right wing circles. As previously mentioned in my posts, I think the republican party abandoned quite a few of us.

The post:
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2020/11/17/you-raised-me-to-be-a-good-person-then-you-voted-for-trump/

[Masterofreality]

He was decimated by his own words, most of which (20,000+) were false for sure.
He continues even as we chat.

He was decimated by lying Democrats and lying and complicit main stream media that are now taking a nap for Joe Biden.

For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have scorched earth. They have salted the fields and now want to grow crops.

They want US to forget now what they did and said we’ll forget it. I will not forget! Screw this Biden “Let’s Come together unity garbage”

I remember the Womens march the day after inauguration.

I remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments.BUT:
-No Nuclear War with Korea
-No Quid Pro Quo with Ukraine (But Biden did and he’s on tape saying it)
-No Russian Collusion totally made up. Schiff Lied.
-Brett Kavanaugh falsely trashed. Feinstein and Blasey-Ford Lied.
-Mueller Investigation Nothing Burger. Peter Strozyk, John Brennan and James Comey Lied
-“China Virus” - Fact Check : True
-Virus Vaccine before Year end- Fact Check : True
-Renegotiate Bad Trade Deals- Fact Check : True
-No new Wars started and bringing troops home. Fact Check: True
-Fostering Middle East peace after destroying ISIS. Fact Check: True
-Lowest Minority Unemployment in History. Fact Check: True
-First Permanent Funding for Historically Black Colleges. Fact Check: True
-Judicial & Prison Reform for wrongly and over accused defendants: Fact Check: True
(Where’s the Lies except from Dems, ON THE IMPORTANT STUFF, Paul?)

I remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”

I remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass Trump supporters in restaurants.

I remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out of a restaurant.

I remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked, including kids from Covington Catholic, for wearing MAGA hats. And the media had to pay Libel parments.

I remember Trump supporters getting fired from jobs.

I remember riots and looting and threats against Federal Agents, Federal Buildings and Police plus harassment of normal people eating in restaurants.

I remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head!

I remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump.

I remember Robert de Niro yelling “Fuck Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation.

I remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.

I remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media for Democrats and the fake “Russian Disinformation” dismissals of the NY Post Hunter Biden Laptop story now proven to be true.

I remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters. The “Fact Checkers” are suddenly silent on Biden.

I remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.

I remember the President and his staff being spied on.

I remember Steve Scalise and other Republicans shot on a ballfield.

I remember every so-called comedy show (Colbert & Kimmel are worst) turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.

I remember 95% negative coverage in the news.

I remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for in the Covid fight and then blaming Trump for their problems.

I remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.

I remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors.

I remember that people were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.

I remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but stayed!

Biden wants Unity now when his Party started this Bull crap immediately to try to subvert the will of the people in 2016? No I will never forget and I will never let leftist supporters forget either.

When people lose their jobs because of pandering to China and because of “Green New Deal” environmental pap, and the flood gates open and crime and hate and socialism escalate, I will again remind you.

[paulxu]

Do you remember "grab them by the pussy" and they let you do it because you're a star?

Do you remember the years of false birther-ism claims?

Have you contributed to his slush fund after the election?

This man was a reality TV star. He was a proven grifter with a fake university and charity.

He's exactly like a 5th grade bully, and has proven that with his conduct post-election.

Eventually bullies have to leave the playground. Fortunately the country seems to have survived his ridiculous antics and claims of fraud.

If McConnell holds the Senate, your party can continue to "govern" by blocking the functioning of our government as they did under Obama.

Even his hand picked judges had enough of his nonsense.

[Masterofreality]

Do you remember "grab them by the pussy" and they let you do it because you're a star?

Do you remember the years of false birther-ism claims?

Have you contributed to his slush fund after the election?

This man was a reality TV star. He was a proven grifter with a fake university and charity.

He's exactly like a 5th grade bully, and has proven that with his conduct post-election.

Eventually bullies have to leave the playground. Fortunately the country seems to have survived his ridiculous antics and claims of fraud.

If McConnell holds the Senate, your party can continue to "govern" by blocking the functioning of our government as they did under Obama.

Even his hand picked judges had enough of his nonsense.

Those are not policy issues Paul.
Everything you point out was rejected by the voters in 2016 as irrelevant because Billary was one of the most corrupt politicians ever. Remember?
You guys keep trying to hang on to “style points”. Let’s see how the style works with a decrepit dementia ridden mummy whose son and brother are China compromised and will soon be going to jail. Get ready for “Cackling Kamala” and her socialist agenda in about 6 months, which will go nowhere because McConnell will save the Republic until the R’s win the House back in 2022.
Trump is a narcissistic asshat. In 2020 people just got tired of the personal drama, but not the policies because they voted 15 more Republicans into the House than before. That’s it. Your party is losing on policy, and after a few months of this clown show coming up, you’ll lose more.

By the way. Those judges he appointed seem to actually judge based on the law, not some biased political agenda. Surprised? You seem to be giving him credit for good judgement. But, yeah we were told more lies by the Democrats that Barrett would try to overturn the election in the hearings before her appointment. How many lies can your side tell?

[Muskie in dayton]

Those are not policy issues Paul.
Everything you point out was rejected by the voters in 2016 as irrelevant because Billary was one of the most corrupt politicians ever. Remember?
You guys keep trying to hang on to “style points”. Let’s see how the style works with a decrepit dementia ridden mummy whose son and brother are China compromised and will soon be going to jail. Get ready for “Cackling Kamala” and her socialist agenda in about 6 months, which will go nowhere because McConnell will save the Republic until the R’s win the House back in 2022.
Trump is a narcissistic asshat. In 2020 people just got tired of the personal drama, but not the policies because they voted 15 more Republicans into the House than before. That’s it. Your party is losing on policy, and after a few months of this clown show coming up, you’ll lose more.
Absolutely 100% spot on. I didn't vote for Trump because of Trump (which is why I didn't vote for him in '16). I voted him for his incredibly successful policy - substance over style. Four years of peace and prosperity, despite a global pandemic. History will look very kindly on his accomplishments, and forget about his douchebaggery.

[bobbiemcgee]

So you're comfortable with president douchebag? Unbelievable. Maybe you and MOR can introduce him at his next rally. "Ladies and Gentlemen, Please welcome our president, a narcissistic asshat douchebag!!!! We are so proud???!!!"

[Masterofreality]

So you're comfortable with president douchebag? Unbelievable. Maybe you and MOR can introduce him at his next rally. "Ladies and Gentlemen, Please welcome our president, a narcissistic asshat douchebag!!!! We are so proud???!!!"

Style points. And your comfortable with a Manchuria Candidate Puppet President.
Let’s see how that works out for ya, with China pulling his strings. The same China that is crushing Hong Kong, human rights and has Ughiers in Concentration Camps. And, oh yeah controls the WHO and launched a Global Pandemic. Well done,

[Xville]

So you're comfortable with president douchebag? Unbelievable. Maybe you and MOR can introduce him at his next rally. "Ladies and Gentlemen, Please welcome our president, a narcissistic asshat douchebag!!!! We are so proud???!!!"

From a policy perspective, many believe he did some great things as mor pointed out, which I agree with. Is he despicable as a human being? Yeah probably...but if we were to vote for our policiticans on a moral compass, most wouldn't be in office. Bill Clinton is a despicable human being, but from a policy perspective, I think he did a lot of great things as well.

I have and had family members at multiple levels within politics at both the state and federal level, and let's just say morality on both sides is the last thing we should concern ourselves with...should be strictly policy in my opinion. If you wanna live in Neverland and believe most of these people are good people and not completely bought and paid for, that's your right.

[X-man]

Style points. And your comfortable with a Manchuria Candidate Puppet President.
Let’s see how that works out for ya, with China pulling his strings. The same China that is crushing Hong Kong, human rights and has Ughiers in Concentration Camps. And, oh yeah controls the WHO and launched a Global Pandemic. Well done,

Hard to understand how you don't see Putin puppet Trump as the quintessential Manchurian candidate.

[XU_Lou]

Hard to understand how you don't see Putin puppet Trump as the quintessential Manchurian candidate.

Let me fix that for you:

Hard to understand how you don't see Xi Jinping puppet Biden as the quintessential Manchurian candidate.

[XU_Lou]

So you're comfortable with president douchebag? Unbelievable. Maybe you and MOR can introduce him at his next rally. "Ladies and Gentlemen, Please welcome our president, a narcissistic asshat douchebag!!!! We are so proud???!!!"

I see you graduated from 3rd Grade debate class....

[bobbiemcgee]

We HAD a president who acted like a 3rd grader, constantly whining and pouting. I agree with MOR and MID that he was (is) an douchebag asshat. You guys are so proud you voted for an Asshat Narcissist Douchebag. Maybe you can get some buttons and tee shirts made up.

[bobbiemcgee]

Style points. Well done,

thx.

[Xville]

We HAD a president who acted like a 3rd grader, constantly whining and pouting. I agree with MOR and MID that he was (is) an douchebag asshat. You guys are so proud you voted for an Asshat Narcissist Douchebag. Maybe you can get some buttons and tee shirts made up.

I dont think anyone should be proud of who they voted for this time around. We all lost with that mix of crap

[Strange Brew]

We HAD a president who acted like a 3rd grader, constantly whining and pouting. I agree with MOR and MID that he was (is) an douchebag asshat. You guys are so proud you voted for an Asshat Narcissist Douchebag. Maybe you can get some buttons and tee shirts made up.

Record vaccine production and deployment and Hanukkah in Dubai. Voted for getting things done and a more peaceful world.

[xuwillie]

Bobbies only argument is calling trump a bad person. Maybe he is but he has done more than obama for all races and it’s not even close. I like results.

[bobbiemcgee]

He got 12% of the black vote. Apparently they disagree.

[Strange Brew]

He got 12% of the black vote. Apparently they disagree.

More than last time and more than previous Rs.

[XU_Lou]

Bobbies only argument is calling trump a bad person. Maybe he is but he has done more than obama for all races and it’s not even close. I like results.

I don't think that Boobie even knows why he doesn't like Trump. I think because CNN told him to hate, he does.

Yea, peace, prosperity and freedom sucks! So does a vaccine in record time that no one in politics could ever get accomplished because they can't think outside of the DC box.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't think that Boobie even knows why he doesn't like Trump. I think because CNN told him to hate, he does.

Yea, peace, prosperity and freedom sucks! So does a vaccine in record time that no one in politics could ever get accomplished because they can't think outside of the DC box.

You're getting the vaccine right Lou?

[bobbiemcgee]

I don't think that Bobbie even knows why he doesn't like Trump.

This is why.....goodbye assholes, don't let the door hit you in the ass;

https://slate.com/tag/goodbye-trump-admin

[xuwillie]

But Bobbie have you seen who they are being replaced with? Good luck getting anything done the next four years.

[bobbiemcgee]

Bobbies only argument is calling trump a bad person.

Haha. The guys that like trump here call him an asshat, narcissist buffoon and a douchebag, which. of course I can't disagree with. So they call him a bad person and he get a pass from you. Huh? I'd like to see you introduce a new friend to someone or maybe your wife. "Hey honey, this is my new buddy. he is an narcissist, asshole douchebag. Please welcome him to the family, but let's remove the kids from the room to be safe."

[XU_Lou]

This is why.....goodbye assholes, don't let the door hit you in the ass;

https://slate.com/tag/goodbye-trump-admin

Boobie - That's just a bunch of nonsense from triggered, angry libs. Again, you can't articulate out of your own mind what Trump has done to make your life so miserable. Again, don't tell me about his personality, don't tell me about his tweets - what policies/laws has he enacted that have made you into an angry old man?

[XU_Lou]

You're getting the vaccine right Lou?

Not sure where you're going with this question? Why do you think what my thoughts are important to you?