Politics Thread

[bobbiemcgee]

You wouldn't have to know who they voted for. Everyone knows approximately what % of votes are going to be for which candidate based on the area the votes are coming for. If you "lost" 100 ballots from a particular neighborhood, you'd have a pretty good idea how many were voting for which candidate.

Oh, so he would have to racial profile first. Seems like a lot of extra work for this public servant.

[GoMuskies]

Oh, so he would have to racial profile first.

He wouldn't have to racial profile. He just would have to know what county he's in and how to use the Internet.

[chico]

I just want someone to be declared the winner so CNBC can go back to airing Shark Tank re-runs.

[JEHARDI]

He wouldn't have to racial profile. He just would have to know what county he's in and how to use the Internet.

So, every day he is taking the ballot of those that leave them in the mail box for their postman to pick up? Makes total sense, brilliant.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, because...he's the mailman.

[chico]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg_4z2adv6Q

[X-band '01]

https://youtu.be/saEHJ2QRh8A?t=255

[xu82]

https://youtu.be/saEHJ2QRh8A?t=255

Priceless!!!

[bobbiemcgee]

I'm going to punch out my mailman tmrw. Bastard!!

[bobbiemcgee]

BTW, TWO runoffs in GA now. they're going to spend about 10 trillion on these races.

[Strange Brew]

Minnesota for example, where a Republican unseated a Democrat.

The point is, that if you have ballots where Republicans down ballot win, then somehow the President says they are fraudulent ballots, it strains credibility in his remarks.

Tina Smith (D, incumbent) won the Senate seat in MN. Whose credibility is now strained?

[GoMuskies]

Hey this postal worker tried it! But only three ballots. He is apparently just a really bad mailman, though.

https://breaking911.com/u-s-postal-worker-caught-at-canadian-border-with-stolen-ballots-in-car-trunk/

[Lloyd Braun]

“Serenity now.... insanity later.” - me

[paulxu]

Tina Smith (D, incumbent) won the Senate seat in MN. Whose credibility is now strained?

Republican Michelle Fischbach will prevail over longtime Democratic Rep. Collin Peterson in Minnesota’s 7th District.

It's a "down ballot" race.

[Xville]

Republican Michelle Fischbach will prevail over longtime Democratic Rep. Collin Peterson in Minnesota’s 7th District.

It's a "down ballot" race.

That's not a Senate race...are you just trying to be obtuse?

[Lamont Sanford]

That's not a Senate race...are you just trying to be obtuse?

What did you call me?!?

[paulxu]

Minnesota for example, where a Republican unseated a Democrat.

The point is, that if you have ballots where Republicans down ballot win, then somehow the President says they are fraudulent ballots, it strains credibility in his remarks.


I was talking about a state where a Republican won a seat, but the presidential part of the ballot is somehow fraudulent.


Republican Michelle Fischbach will prevail over longtime Democratic Rep. Collin Peterson in Minnesota’s 7th District.

It's a "down ballot" race.


That's not a Senate race...are you just trying to be obtuse?

Trying to be helpful here. I never said Senate. I said "down ballot" race.

[paulxu]

Here's why you don't want to "stop the vote" or "stop the count."
Biden has taken about a 1000 pt lead in Georgia, with well over 99% of the votes counted.
There are about 8,800 outstanding ex-pat and military overseas ballots not yet returned.
I think Georgia law allows them another week to come in, and be counted (assuming I guess if they were postmarked before Nov 3rd.)

If you're the president, and you wanted to "stop the counting", you might not get to count those votes...which (given traditional military overseas vote) might put Georgia back in your column.

Crazy.

[xubrew]

I know when people are frustrated their reasoning goes down and their emotions go up. It's part of human nature. We are all like that. I'm like that. I make an effort to not be like that even when it comes to things where it really is okay to be like that (like sports), but I'm still like that sometimes. But, you have to be able to REASON with yourself...

-Trump is not popular. More people dislike him than like him.

-The Democrats really aren't that sophisticated. Back in 2016 they couldn't even stack the deck within their own party when it came to the primaries without making it look a total shit show with everything on display.

-The Democrats were heavily favored to win. If they were going to rig the election, it wouldn't have been this close, AND they would have rigged the down ballot races as well. They were favored to win a lot of them. It wouldn't have even been that suspicious had they done it and gotten away with it because that's what all the polls were saying anyway.

-A lot of Republicans threw a fit over mail in ballots. Trump himself said to his base not to vote by mail. So, is it really any surprise that so few of them did?? It also appeared at times that things were being done to slow down the mail (ie removing sorting machines). There were certain states where they didn't even want them opening the mail in ballots prior to Election Day. Then, they wonder why it's taking so long and demand that the counting be stopped because they think they're counting rigged votes!!?? No, they're not rigged ballots. They're ballots that are taking longer to count because the procedures that were put in place were seemingly done so with the intention of making this take longer.

If anyone is trying to steal the election, it's Trump. He is now making wild and baseless accusations. The alleged 'vote dumps' were bogus, the allegations of states having more people vote than who was registered to vote were bogus, the fact that a lot of the mail-in votes are going for Biden is TOTALLY understandable, each polling place allows for poll watchers where candidates and parties can appoint people to be there and observe and so far as I know none of the poll watchers who actually have credentials to be there have cried foul. People who just randomly show up on their own and demand to be able to go wherever they want is not the same thing as a credentialed poll watcher that was selected by a candidate or by a party. Trump is a liar who is losing because he isn't popular. It has nothing to do with this being rigged.

[Xville]

Trying to be helpful here. I never said Senate. I said "down ballot" race.

But there is zero correlation because it isnt a statewide race.

[Xville]

I know when people are frustrated their reasoning goes down and their emotions go up. It's part of human nature. We are all like that. I'm like that. I make an effort to not be like that when it comes to things when it really is okay to be like that (like sports), but I'm still like that sometimes. But, you have to be able to REASON with yourself...

-Trump is not popular. More people dislike him than like him.

-The Democrats really aren't that sophisticated. Back in 2016 they couldn't even stack the deck within their own party when it came to the primaries without making it look a total shit show with everything on display.

-The Democrats were heavily favored to win. If they were going to rig the election, it wouldn't have been this close, AND they would have rigged the down ballot races as well. They were favored to win a lot of them. It wouldn't have even been that suspicious had they done it and gotten away with it because that's what all the polls were saying anyway.

-A lot of Republicans threw a fit over mail in ballots. Trump himself said to his base not to vote by mail. So, is it really any surprise that so few of them did?? It also appeared at times that things were being done to slow down the mail (ie removing sorting machines). There were certain states where they didn't even want them opening the mail in ballots prior to Election Day. Then, they wonder why it's taking so long and demand that the counting be stopped because they think they're counting rigged votes!!?? No, they're not rigged ballots. They're ballots that are taking longer to count because the procedures that were put in place were seemingly done so with the intention of making this take longer.

If anyone is trying to steal the election, it's Trump. He is now making wild and baseless accusations. The alleged 'vote dumps' were bogus, the allegations of states having more people vote than who was registered to vote were bogus, the fact that a lot of the mail-in votes are going for Biden is TOTALLY understandable, each polling place allows for poll watchers where candidates and parties can appoint people to be there and observe and so far as I know none of the poll watchers who actually have credentials to be there have cried foul. People who just randomly show up on their own and demand to be able to go wherever they want is not the same thing as a credentialed poll watcher that was selected by a candidate or by a party. Trump is a liar who is losing because he isn't popular. It has nothing to do with this being rigged.

Agree with most of this. The annoying part now is that because trump is going to lose, we are now going to hear about lawsuits on a daily basis for at least the next month. Let's get biden in office, republican Senate and tread water for the next 4 years until we get some competent (dem or pub) n the president seat to actually enact legislation.

[Strange Brew]

Republican Michelle Fischbach will prevail over longtime Democratic Rep. Collin Peterson in Minnesota’s 7th District.

It's a "down ballot" race.

The 7th district voted for Trump in 2016 and it was a major target for Rs to pick up a seat in the House. You're argument is a non starter.

[paulxu]

It would seem like a number of states that the vote count is very close, fall into the necessary area where a re-count can be requested.
If one is requested in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Nevada, etc., then we might not have certified counts before another week or two.

I need more bourbon.

[paulxu]

The 7th district voted for Trump in 2016 and it was a major target for Rs to pick up a seat in the House. You're argument is a non starter.

They voted for Trump in 2016, yet elected a Democratic congressman the same year.

[xubrew]

It would seem like a number of states that the vote count is very close, fall into the necessary area where a re-count can be requested.
If one is requested in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Nevada, etc., then we might not have certified counts before another week or two.

I need more bourbon.

If they counted them right the first time, a recount won't change the results because the difference will be infinitesimal. In my opinion they should always count everything twice anyway to make sure the results are close enough to where you know you got it right the first time. Hell, that's what they do at the bank if you make a large cash deposit. So, I say go ahead and recount them if that's what the want.

[boozehound]

So it looks like Trump is going to lose, very likely by 36 (I think) electoral votes. Fivethirtyeight is projecting that Biden will likely win PA by 2%-3% once all votes are counted. Georgia still seems like a toss up, and Arizona will probably be very close - but I would guess that both will slightly go for Biden.

This where a normal presidential candidate would concede, as you would have to win multiple unlikely legal challenges in different states. Trump obviously won't do that. I'd imagine that the next few weeks will be a complete flaming shit show.

Key questions (kind of tongue-in-cheek):

1. Will they have to remove Trump from office at any point and install Pence to serve out the rest of the term?
2. Will Trump and his advisers rip up the carpet, sledgehammer the toilets, etc. in the White House like an angry evictee?

I assume it's a given that this will be a very 'interesting' transition.

[xubrew]

So it looks like Trump is going to lose, very likely by 36 (I think) electoral votes. Fivethirtyeight is projecting that Biden will likely win PA by 2%-3% once all votes are counted. Georgia still seems like a toss up, and Arizona will probably be very close - but I would guess that both will slightly go for Biden.

This where a normal presidential candidate would concede, as you would have to win multiple unlikely legal challenges in different states. Trump obviously won't do that. I'd imagine that the next few weeks will be a complete flaming shit show.

Key questions (kind of tongue-in-cheek):

1. Will they have to remove Trump from office at any point and install Pence to serve out the rest of the term?
2. Will Trump and his advisers rip up the carpet, sledgehammer the toilets, etc. in the White House like an angry evictee?

I assume it's a given that this will be a very 'interesting' transition.

I'm kinda wondering about scenario #1. If he continues to go apeshit, then I'd be for removing him. You'd say to the Republicans in the House and Senate "Look, he clearly lost, and he's clearly acting like a child, which is clearly not good for the country. Him staying does nothing to help your party or platform. If anything it is weakened. Let's 25th Amendent this guy."

As far as contesting the election and investigating the results, my feelings are this...GO AHEAD! As I stated earlier, I think the allegations of corruption fall somewhere between being completely false, or at the very least ridiculously overblown. All any thorough investigation will do is demonstrate that the election was fair (so long as the investigation itself is fair). So if an investigation will help give more people confidence that the election was legitimate, then go ahead and investigate it. Elections should be able to stand up to heavy and fair scrutiny anyway.

But, under one condition, if this investigation shows that there was no fraud, which I'm almost certain that it would, THEN SHUT THE HELL UP, GET THE HELL OUT, AND STAY THE HELL OUT!!!!

[Mrs. Garrett]

So it looks like Trump is going to lose, very likely by 36 (I think) electoral votes. Fivethirtyeight is projecting that Biden will likely win PA by 2%-3% once all votes are counted. Georgia still seems like a toss up, and Arizona will probably be very close - but I would guess that both will slightly go for Biden.

This where a normal presidential candidate would concede, as you would have to win multiple unlikely legal challenges in different states. Trump obviously won't do that. I'd imagine that the next few weeks will be a complete flaming shit show.

Key questions (kind of tongue-in-cheek):

1. Will they have to remove Trump from office at any point and install Pence to serve out the rest of the term?
2. Will Trump and his advisers rip up the carpet, sledgehammer the toilets, etc. in the White House like an angry evictee?

I assume it's a given that this will be a very 'interesting' transition.

In response to #1 - I could see Trump deciding not to serve out the remainder of his term.

[GoMuskies]

I'm sure it will be batshit crazy insane....but I'm DEFINITELY going to buy and read the book that Trump "writes" in 2021.

[xubrew]

I'm sure it will be batshit crazy insane....but I'm DEFINITELY going to buy and read the book that Trump "writes" in 2021.

If there is an audio book version that he himself reads, it will sell 100 million copies. Which...I don't get. I mean I do get it, but I don't get it. I've had more than enough of this guy. I'd love it if he would just make it so that you can ignore him if you want to. Right now, you can't. He's the political version of Lavar Ball. He won't go away.

[paulxu]

I could see him deciding to resign, claiming the election was stolen, and letting Pence take over for a couple months.
Then Pence would (supposedly to help the country/heal the wounds/whatever) pardon him for federal crimes like Ford did Nixon.
He'd only than have to worry about state indictments waiting for him.

Edit: it's also within his right to ask for recounts where available in close states; which would be sort of like Lavar in a way.

[boozehound]

BTW. I have no issues with Trump asking for a recount in GA or WI (although WI in particular seems highly unlikely to be impacted by a recount), or any other close state for that matter. I do have an issue with all the lying about widespread fraud, etc.

Just say that it's a close race and you want to make sure all votes were counted accurately.

[Strange Brew]

They voted for Trump in 2016, yet elected a Democratic congressman the same year.

So what's your point? The R Party made a huge effort to win that seat b/c Trump won the district in '16. The R won the House seat. Where's the controversy?

From you there seams to be much sound and fury signifying nothing.

[Strange Brew]

BTW. I have no issues with Trump asking for a recount in GA or WI (although WI in particular seems highly unlikely to be impacted by a recount), or any other close state for that matter. I do have an issue with all the lying about widespread fraud, etc.

Just say that it's a close race and you want to make sure all votes were counted accurately.

We agree here. A recount allows for all legally casted votes to be counted.

[GoMuskies]

Republicans won another House seat. NJ this time.

[Strange Brew]

Republicans won another House seat. NJ this time.

Not surprised. A guy I listen to on Sirius lives in NJ and said there were Trump caravans in the state for the first time ever.

[boozehound]

Republicans won another House seat. NJ this time.

I live in the district next to Van Drew's. He has the Southermost tip of NJ, which generally consists of Piney Country and the Southern part of the Shore. He actually used to be a Democrat and switched affiliations within the last 2 years (I think).

[paulxu]

So what's your point? The R Party made a huge effort to win that seat b/c Trump won the district in '16. The R won the House seat. Where's the controversy?


From you there seams to be much sound and fury signifying nothing.

I'll try one last time. The president said there were fraudulent ballots.
If in a state like Maine, the democratic votes for Biden were fraudulent, why did Collins get re-elected?
Maybe those crafty dems went into a lot of ballots and just switched the Trump selection. That sounds rational.(sarcasm font to make sure)

To keep the peace, I'll note that whatever you think (I'm sorry, I don't quite understand it) let's say you're right, and move on.

[paulxu]

I live in the district next to Van Drew's. He has the Southermost tip of NJ, which generally consists of Piney Country and the Southern part of the Shore. He actually used to be a Democrat and switched affiliations within the last 2 years (I think).

He did switch. Good read on the wind in his district I guess.
I've got a good friend that lives near you (I think) in Haddonfield. Great Republican; his dad was a former Governor of New Jersey.

[noteggs]

A couple of observations.

1) Never saw an election where it basically came down to like vs hate with one candidate.

2) I’m a big state rights person, but since Presidential election is National, we need some type of universal voting laws and rules.

3) We are a far cry from four years ago when people were saying Trump stole the election and had years of investigations. Now those same people are saying get over it, he’s losing fair and square. Maybe so with the later, but...

4) DC is licking their chops because it’s close to business as usual and I’m not talking about bipartisan politics.

[boozehound]

He did switch. Good read on the wind in his district I guess.
I've got a good friend that lives near you (I think) in Haddonfield. Great Republican; his dad was a former Governor of New Jersey.

Haddonfield is one town over from me. Like 3 miles away. High rent district (even by NJ standards) but very nice.

[Strange Brew]

I'll try one last time. The president said there were fraudulent ballots.
If in a state like Maine, the democratic votes for Biden were fraudulent, why did Collins get re-elected?
Maybe those crafty dems went into a lot of ballots and just switched the Trump selection. That sounds rational.(sarcasm font to make sure)

To keep the peace, I'll note that whatever you think (I'm sorry, I don't quite understand it) let's say you're right, and move on.

Trump won part of the electoral vote in ME and Collins is the most center Senator. That explains your false premise.

[paulxu]

Here's a good primer on the states where recounts may happen.
In some situations, if a candidate asks for the recount, he may have to bear all or part of the cost.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-biden-recount-battle-ground-state-rules

[Masterofreality]

For a "racist", Trump pulled the highest percentage of Black, Hispanic vote since 1960, and he pulled and 35% of the Muslim vote. The Hispanic vote helped him carry Florida.

Maybe the media was painting trash pictures full of biased inaccuracies....again?

Bottom line. This was not a race about Policy. This was a race about Personality. The Republicans so far have picked up 12 House seats, and will retain control of the Senate in the face of Hundreds of Millions of Dollars, thrown at and wasted by the Democratic Party elites. The people LIKE the Republican policies, but Trump just couldn't get out of his own way.

There will be no Socialist revolution. Cocaine Mitch will stop any attempt at Green New Deal, ending the filibuster, and court packing in its tracks. If Breyer decides to retire, Mitch will probably go along with Biden's pick as an attempt to show Bi-Partisanship and to contrast how the Republicans do things vs the Circus the Democrats pulled. Then in 2022, the Republicans are poised to take back control of the House and will probably increase their Senate majority.

Trump blew it by his own arrogance, but Nancy Pelosi is DONE, DONE. Her elitist act won't play anymore. Have a nice four years of nap Joe. Your initiatives will go nowhere, and we'll all be taking a nap while the press disappears again.

[Masterofreality]

4) DC is licking their chops because it’s close to business as usual and I’m not talking about bipartisan politics.

Gridlock. Because it means lots of posturing and long 3 martini lunches.
Any new socialist initiatives are DOA

[Strange Brew]

For a "racist", Trump pulled the highest percentage of Black, Hispanic vote since 1960, and he pulled and 35% of the Muslim vote. The Hispanic vote helped him carry Florida.

Maybe the media was painting trash pictures full of biased inaccuracies....again?

Bottom line. This was not a race about Policy. This was a race about Personality. The Republicans so far have picked up 12 House seats, and will retain control of the Senate in the face of Hundreds of Millions of Dollars, thrown at and wasted by the Democratic Party elites. The people LIKE the Republican policies, but Trump just couldn't get out of his own way.

There will be no Socialist revolution. Cocaine Mitch will stop any attempt at Green New Deal, ending the filibuster, and court packing in its tracks. If Breyer decides to retire, Mitch will probably go along with Biden's pick as an attempt to show Bi-Partisanship and to contrast how the Republicans do things vs the Circus the Democrats pulled. Then in 2022, the Republicans are poised to take back control of the House and will probably increase their Senate majority.

Trump blew it by his own arrogance, but Nancy Pelosi is DONE, DONE. Her elitist act won't play anymore. Have a nice four years of nap Joe. Your initiatives will go nowhere, and we'll all be taking a nap while the press disappears again.

Why end court packing? Rs hold power until Jan. Ram a bunch more thru on the way out!

[Strange Brew]

And a MI county fixes “glitch” (oopsy) and the county goes to Trump (6k vote swing). Nothing to see here.

[XU_Lou]

More proof that Democrats have a tremendous amount in common with the Nazis (the American Brown Shirts came out this summer during the American version of kristallnacht):

https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/06/leftists-never-trumpers-begin-compiling-lists-of-trump-supporters/

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=395302391830056

[STL_XUfan]

More proof that Democrats have a tremendous amount in common with the Nazis (the American Brown Shirts came out this summer during the American version of kristallnacht):

https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/06/leftists-never-trumpers-begin-compiling-lists-of-trump-supporters/

This is a little bit rich considering one of the founders of Breitbart was just banned from Twitter for suggesting beheading two public officials and putting their heads on pikes in front of the White House if the president wins re-election.

[noteggs]

Gridlock. Because it means lots of posturing and long 3 martini lunches.
Any new socialist initiatives are DOA

Yes I agree with the House and Senate. It’s just the other bottom feeders in the area who are ready to pounce.

[XU_Lou]

This is a little bit rich considering one of the founders of Breitbart was just banned from Twitter for suggesting beheading two public officials and putting their heads on pikes in front of the White House if the president wins re-election.

Actually, no, it didn't come from Breitbart - it came from the mouths of Democrats themselves....

[xukeith]

Actually, no, it didn't come from Breitbart - it came from the mouths of Democrats themselves....

Bannon pulled a Kathy Griffen.
Why Twitter did nothing to Kathy's Twitter account is not shocking.

[paulxu]

And a MI county fixes “glitch” (oopsy) and the county goes to Trump (6k vote swing). Nothing to see here.


And the process worked apparently without regard to politics. A Republican city clerk supervised a vote count that wrongly gave victory to a Democrat, after which a Democratic county clerk's staff caught the error and requested a correction from the Republican city clerk, handing the win to a Republican.

Those dastardly Democrats. When will they ever learn how to cheat.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2020/11/06/oakland-county-election-2020-race-results/6184186002/

[Strange Brew]

Those dastardly Democrats. When will they ever learn how to cheat.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2020/11/06/oakland-county-election-2020-race-results/6184186002/

Probably a McCain relative....

Edit: The glitch is due to the software used not user error. Paul, where do you get your info?

[xubrew]

For a "racist", Trump pulled the highest percentage of Black, Hispanic vote since 1960, and he pulled and 35% of the Muslim vote. The Hispanic vote helped him carry Florida.

MAYBE he did. I know that's what the exit polls say, but I don't think you can really say for sure because the exit polls don't account for early voting or mail in voting. I'm not going to say that it's certain that he didn't, but I also don't think you can say for certain that he did. It is at least very fair to guess that most Blacks and Hispanics who voted for Biden voted by mail. I think you have to put a big asterisk by any exit poll data you see from this election.

[paulxu]

Probably a McCain relative....

Edit: The glitch is due to the software used not user error. Paul, where do you get your info?

Try clicking the link in my comment. The "glitch" was caught by a Democrat, who helped correct the count, to give the Republican the votes.

[xubrew]

It seems kind of curious that so many Republicans won down ballot races that they were expected to lose. They need to look and see if there was fraud or glitches in the computers.

The Republicans did way better than expected, and the presidential race was closer than expected. I’m not saying that the voting procedure should not be highly scrutinized because, quite frankly, it always should be. But I am saying that the Dems probably have more reason to be suspicious of fraud than the Reps do. Look at how many outcomes that were expected to go their way ended up going the other way.

Now, to be clear, I don’t think there was fraud. I don’t think the Dems have any actual basis to claim fraud. I just think the Reps have even less basis to claim it than the Dems do.

[paulxu]

I'm struck by what seems to be a reality disconnect.
Trump is constantly harping on "stop the count." Being behind, he should want to keep counting to catch up.
And that's possible. For example in Georgia where they are finishing up counting military votes from overseas which arrived after Nov 3rd, but were sent before that date.
Slowing the postal process only helped to impede votes that might help him from the suckers and losers.
And in Arizona (I think) where Biden's lead keeps shrinking as more and more votes are counted.
If we had direct election, the 4 million vote lead Biden has would have let us put this all behind us.
And I'm still not sure who's going to win.

[noteggs]

Try clicking the link in my comment. The "glitch" was caught by a Democrat, who helped correct the count, to give the Republican the votes.

You guys are talking about two different problems in two different counties in Michigan. Strange Brew is talking about 6k vote swing in the Presidential and Senate races in Antrim county. Your article references Oakland county commissioners office. Consider me confused.

[paulxu]

Sorry if I got confused about the two situations.

[bobbiemcgee]

The Republicans are very lucky that Cal Cunningham couldn't control his wiener during his campaign. With Biden as President, they could have Kamala Harris breaking any potential 50-50 ties in the Senate.

Still possible. People in GA will have to dvr everything they watch thru the new year to avoid the onslaught of ads. And, of course, watch their mailman.

[bobbiemcgee]

Called. End of an erro...er....era.

[X-band '01]

If there is an audio book version that he himself reads, it will sell 100 million copies. Which...I don't get. I mean I do get it, but I don't get it. I've had more than enough of this guy. I'd love it if he would just make it so that you can ignore him if you want to. Right now, you can't. He's the political version of Lavar Ball. He won't go away.

To be like Lavar Ball, he'd have to start his own country, declare himself President and shut it down months later when he's about to go bankrupt.

[xubrew]

To be like Lavar Ball, he'd have to start his own country, declare himself President and shut it down months later when he's about to go bankrupt.

Public reps!!!!

[boozehound]

To be like Lavar Ball, he'd have to start his own country, declare himself President and shut it down months later when he's about to go bankrupt.

There’s probably only like a 40% chance of that happening.

[xubrew]

Democrats are celebrating in the streets!! And ringing church bells!!! And setting off fireworks!!

Okay....should someone go out and tell them that they actually underperformed? And that they were expected to do better? And that other than not being Donald Trump, it’s gonna be VERRY hard for Biden to deliver on a lot of the things he promised and that in four years a lot of people will want him gone because he didn’t deliver?

[X-band '01]

No different than Virginia fans celebrating an NCAA Tournament win over Gardner-Webb back in 2019.

[bjf123]

Double post.

[bjf123]

Democrats are celebrating in the streets!! And ringing church bells!!! And setting off fireworks!!

Okay....should someone go out and tell them that they actually underperformed? And that they were expected to do better? And that other than not being Donald Trump, it’s gonna be VERRY hard for Biden to deliver on a lot of the things he promised and that in four years a lot of people will want him gone because he didn’t deliver?

Underperformed is an understatement. Looking at the total popular vote count, Biden beat Trump by just over 4MM. Biden also won California by how much? Yep, just over 4MM votes. Without getting into exact numbers, Trump possibly won the popular vote for the rest of the country. That’s hardly a mandate for wholesale changes.

As for Biden not winning in 4 years, you’re assuming he makes it that far. My question is if they remove him from office before, or after, the midterm elections where I think the Democrats will lose a few more seats. I think they’ll wait until after.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

Maybe if you split the 40 million Californians into 80 Wyomings, then it would be easier to understand.

[XU_Lou]

Oh dear Democrats, how are you going to deal with this - it seems your monster has turned on you.... what a shame:

“For all of you f—ng journalists, for all of you white liberals who have been celebrating, getting drunk off your asses about Biden winning this election, you are all a bunch of f—ng fools!”

https://trendingpolitics.com/it-begins-blm-torches-white-liberals-who-celebrate-biden-you-re-a-bunch-of-fu-ing-fools/

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1325289842247299073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325289842247299073%7Ctwgr% 5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrendingpolitics.com%2Fit-begins-blm-torches-white-liberals-who-celebrate-biden-you-re-a-bunch-of-fu-ing-fools%2F

[XU_Lou]

GREAT POINT!!!!

Where is @JoeBiden calling on the massive Super Spreader events held in his name to end?

What about little Bobbie? What about it Paul?

https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1325163241656496133

[paulxu]

The hate is strong within you, young Padawan.
Biden has called for proper social distancing, and has practiced it at his "rallies."
(perhaps you saw the one last night)
He didn't organize the things you note; but at least there is a lot of mask wearing.
Whereas Trump has held (organized by his campaign) mass rallies with no distancing, and lots and lots of unmasked people.

We've got (hopefully) another 4 years to cure the damage of the last 4. Maybe you guys will help, instead of spending 4 years obstructing.

[Xville]

The hate is strong within you, young Padawan.
Biden has called for proper social distancing, and has practiced it at his "rallies."
(perhaps you saw the one last night)
He didn't organize the things you note; but at least there is a lot of mask wearing.
Whereas Trump has held (organized by his campaign) mass rallies with no distancing, and lots and lots of unmasked people.

We've got (hopefully) another 4 years to cure the damage of the last 4. Maybe you guys will help, instead of spending 4 years obstructing.

We've...you guys? Arent you the party of unity, rainbows, sunshine and inclusion? Oh...that's right I forgot...as long as the lemmings follow your ideological thought patterns.

The hypocrisy is strong with you.

[XU_Lou]

The hate is strong within you, young Padawan.
Biden has called for proper social distancing, and has practiced it at his "rallies."
(perhaps you saw the one last night)
He didn't organize the things you note; but at least there is a lot of mask wearing.
Whereas Trump has held (organized by his campaign) mass rallies with no distancing, and lots and lots of unmasked people.

We've got (hopefully) another 4 years to cure the damage of the last 4. Maybe you guys will help, instead of spending 4 years obstructing.

What a joke, Paulie Boy.... You wouldn't know hypocrisy even if it hit you upside the head....

[bjf123]

Maybe you guys will help, instead of spending 4 years obstructing.

Now THAT’S funny. What do you think Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, etc., spent the last 4 years doing? Russian collusion. Impeachment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nigel Tufnel]

One thing I’ve wondered about multiple times as I’ve read this thread...with a lot of nastiness, name calling, etc...would some of you talk like this if you were conversing face to face? I’ve concluded that I seriously doubt it.

[bobbiemcgee]

What about Bobbie? What about it Paul?


I would say what you always have said...":laugh::laugh::laugh:elections have consequences"....hahaha

[XU_Lou]

I would say what you always have said...":laugh::laugh::laugh:elections have consequences"....hahaha

Huh??? So, I guess what you're saying is that covid can't be spread once the Democrats are in power - is that correct?

[bjf123]

Huh??? So, I guess what you're saying is that covid can't be spread once the Democrats are in power - is that correct?

Bet that’s how the media spins it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XU 23]

Biden currently leads by 0.5% in Arizona with 3% of the vote still out. About 20,000 votes ahead. Never in doubt, right Fox News?

[bobbiemcgee]

Kayleigh's home polishing up her resume. Maybe she can get a job with CNN where she use to badmouth trump. She made me laugh when she said she would never "lie to the press' and lied 30 seconds later.

[bobbiemcgee]

Biden currently leads by 0.5% in Arizona with 3% of the vote still out. About 20,000 votes ahead. Never in doubt, right Fox News?

I thought trump sued to stop the vote. Maybe they should. Won't make any difference anywhoo.

[xuwillie]

This will be a fun 4 years for republicans. Hypocrisy is a bitch

[XU_Lou]

Kayleigh's home polishing up her resume. Maybe she can get a job with CNN where she use to badmouth trump. She made me laugh when she said she would never "lie to the press' and lied 30 seconds later.

You know a lot about lying, don't ya, little Bobbie....

[bobbiemcgee]

The nation got a crash course in it from your boy... lying lou, btw, what happened to your lying trump landslide?

[bobbiemcgee]

No transition b/c he doesn’t expect to lose. Jeez you’re dense.

Guess you're dense.

[XU_Lou]

The nation got a crash course in it from your boy... lying lou, btw, what happened to your lying trump landslide?

Be real careful about spiking that football before crossing the end zone....

[waggy]

One thing I’ve wondered about multiple times as I’ve read this thread...with a lot of nastiness, name calling, etc...would some of you talk like this if you were conversing face to face? I’ve concluded that I seriously doubt it.

My issue isn't with individuals. It's with the democratic party collectively. How they want to get into every corner of peoples lives, and tell them what's good for them, and how they should think and live. Legislation that requires people to pay for services they don't want or need, and that are very poorly serviced at great expense. I learned a long time ago to ignore politics, because it's garbage, but it's hard to ignore when I'm seeing the scam on the people perpetrated by this party. And I'll say this straight to anyone's face with more venom than they'll be comfortable with.

[Xville]

The nation got a crash course in it from your boy... lying lou, btw, what happened to your lying trump landslide?

Your party is already saying things in the press that show how disjointed the party is. Biden needs to reign in the freak squad and their buddies before it gets too far. Party of unity...amirite?

[bobbiemcgee]

You probably had your champagne on ice.....

Nope, drank it last night.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump is now a solid favorite to retain the White House. Wow.

Hahaha. Hope you didn't go for that fool's bet.

[GoMuskies]

Hahaha

You should have been ready. I got some money down on Biden +300.

[bjf123]

Your party is already saying things in the press that show how disjointed the party is. Biden needs to reign in the freak squad and their buddies before it gets too far. Party of unity...amirite?

Agreed. I really expect Joe to try to govern a little more to the center than AOC, “The Squad”, and Bernie will want. He knows that giving in to the extreme Left will likely result in losing the House at the midterms. Of course, there’s also the risk that Pelosi will use the 25th Amendment to remove him from office and anoint Harris as President. If that happens, watch out.


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[Strange Brew]

Guess you're dense.

This cracks me up b/c you clearly didn't understand my comment.

[Nigel Tufnel]

My issue isn't with individuals. It's with the democratic party collectively. How they want to get into every corner of peoples lives, and tell them what's good for them, and how they should think and live. Legislation that requires people to pay for services they don't want or need, and that are very poorly serviced at great expense. I learned a long time ago to ignore politics, because it's garbage, but it's hard to ignore when I'm seeing the scam on the people perpetrated by this party. And I'll say this straight to anyone's face with more venom than they'll be comfortable with.

Fair enough. Hopefully that person isn’t a black belt in ju jitsu...hehe.

[Xville]

Agreed. I really expect Joe to try to govern a little more to the center than AOC, “The Squad”, and Bernie will want. He knows that giving in to the extreme Left will likely result in losing the House at the midterms. Of course, there’s also the risk that Pelosi will use the 25th Amendment to remove him from office and anoint Harris as President. If that happens, watch out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dems are going to lose the house no matter what.

[bjf123]

Dems are going to lose the house no matter what. It's pretty much a given that the first midterms swing opposite of the president every time.

True. But if they go too far to the Left, they could lose it big time which would be tough to get back for years. I’m okay with that.


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[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i05gKtHWjGY

[bobbiemcgee]

I got some money down on Biden +300.

I figured you would. That was a crazy swing.

[bobbiemcgee]

Your party is already saying things in the press that show how disjointed the party is. Biden needs to reign in the freak squad and their buddies before it gets too far. Party of unity...amirite?

Well, GA went blue, so we'll see what happens in a couple months and they get both senate seats and Harris is head of the Senate. Biden will send his whole campaign staff down there with a ton of money.

[Xville]

Well, GA went blue, so we'll see what happens in a couple months and they get both senate seats and Harris is head of the Senate. Biden will send his whole campaign staff down there with a ton of money.

Lol numbers arent there. But go ahead and waste that money.

And that wasn't my point anyways. Even if the dems got control of the senate, it will still be a disjointed shitshow because of your pals, the freaksquad and the rest of their ilk.

[xubrew]

Biden currently leads by 0.5% in Arizona with 3% of the vote still out. About 20,000 votes ahead. Never in doubt, right Fox News?

I wish networks would just show the returns and not “call” states or races. It doesn’t mean anything. It’s not an official result, but merely a projection of an official result. Blaming Fox for projecting the state for Biden is kind of like blaming the scoreboard operator if your team loses.

Having said that, Trump would need 66% of the remaining vote to win the state, and since he’s gotten less than 50% throughout the first 98% of the count, that’s a pretty safe projection.

[bobbiemcgee]

Lol numbers arent there. But go ahead and waste that money.

Loeffler should have been tossed out of Congress after she sold 20 million in stock after a closed door meeting on covid in January. what a douche.

If Cheese Coney votes down the ACA, I think the Dems will win in GA.

[XU 23]

I wish networks would just show the returns and not “call” states or races. It doesn’t mean anything. It’s not an official result, but merely a projection of an official result. Blaming Fox for projecting the state for Biden is kind of like blaming the scoreboard operator if your team loses.

Having said that, Trump would need 66% of the remaining vote to win the state, and since he’s gotten less than 50% throughout the first 98% of the count, that’s a pretty safe projection.

Yes, but even if Biden wins AZ, it will be by <1%. Never should have called the state as early as they did.

[paulxu]

Some comic relief:


https://twitter.com/i/status/1325242917519233024

[XU_Lou]

uh-oh Dems, more signs the monster you created is now turning on you: https://noqreport.com/2020/11/09/antifa-which-joe-biden-said-is-an-idea-vandalizes-democrat-campaign-building-in-portland/

Oh, and these poor Biden supporters...: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1323984227008868353

[bigdiggins]

uh-oh Dems, more signs the monster you created is now turning on you: https://noqreport.com/2020/11/09/antifa-which-joe-biden-said-is-an-idea-vandalizes-democrat-campaign-building-in-portland/

Oh, and these poor Biden supporters...: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1323984227008868353

F*** Biden. Something Antifa and I agree on.

[boozehound]

Agreed. I really expect Joe to try to govern a little more to the center than AOC, “The Squad”, and Bernie will want. He knows that giving in to the extreme Left will likely result in losing the House at the midterms. Of course, there’s also the risk that Pelosi will use the 25th Amendment to remove him from office and anoint Harris as President. If that happens, watch out.


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Biden isn't doing anything extreme for two reasons: 1. He doesn't want to, and 2. Dems won't have the Senate. That might actually be a good thing for Biden since he will have a ready-made excuse for not enacting sweeping change.

Joe Biden get elected for one reason: He wasn't Donald Trump. The only mandate he has is a mandate to rebuild a functional government and behave with some semblance of sanity and civility. He seems to know that, as well.

In a broader sense - the Democrats need to find a message that will help them win elections in middle America. They have a fractured platform right now, and nobody can figure out their Party stance. Take Healthcare for example, and look at what the Democratic Primary candidates said: It ran the gamut from Bernie's 'immediate Nationalized Health Care' to Biden and Klobuchar wanting to essentially keep the current system but add a public option. What to the Democrats, as a party, want to do? Nobody really knows.

Your other comment about Pelosi 'removing him is just paranoid insanity. I'm hoping that was a joke and you don't really believe that there is some sort of plan to remove Biden and install Harris. If you really think that is the case, I believe you need to take a deep and objective look at why you think that.

[Xville]

I do hope that Biden really does run the country as a centrist. My worry is that the progressive side of the dem party, does not allow that to happen, but we shall see. As a friend of mine said, as a country we need to get back to neutral, and that is hopefully what Biden will provide. Obama was polarizing to many, and he (along with a gawd awful dem candidate) got Trump elected, Biden got elected because he wasn't Trump. My hope is that in 4 years, Biden has gotten the country back to neutral, and the next Presidential choice is not the lesser of two evils as it has been for what seems like forever, but elected because they are the best man/woman for the job.

[boozehound]

I do hope that Biden really does run the country as a centrist. My worry is that the progressive side of the dem party, does not allow that to happen, but we shall see. As a friend of mine said, as a country we need to get back to neutral, and that is hopefully what Biden will provide. Obama was polarizing to many, and he (along with a gawd awful dem candidate) got Trump elected, Biden got elected because he wasn't Trump. My hope is that in 4 years, Biden has gotten the country back to neutral, and the next Presidential choice is not the lesser of two evils as it has been for what seems like forever, but elected because they are the best man/woman for the job.

I don't see him as someone who is going to be worried about what the far left thinks. Remember this is the guy Trump kept criticizing for 'losing the radical left' because he wouldn't say he wanted to defund the Police and condemned violent protests. The content of Joe's acceptance speech was pretty clear: he talked less about Policy moves he wanted to make and more about how he wanted to be a President for all Americans, and bring back compromise. It seems pretty clear that the only mandate Joe thinks he has is to bring back competence, civility, and compromise.

I think it will be difficult, though. There is A LOT of money and energy in this Country around demonizing the other side. People don't tune in to Sean Hannity, or Glenn Beck, or Alex Jones, to listen to a moderate and rationale conversation about policy compromise. Those guys are making a lot of money whipping people into a frenzy of misinformation and rage. That's not even getting into what Trump and his surrogates will do, but I doubt it will inspire unity.

[bigdiggins]

I don't see him as someone who is going to be worried about what the far left thinks. Remember this is the guy Trump kept criticizing for 'losing the radical left' because he wouldn't say he wanted to defund the Police and condemned violent protests. The content of Joe's acceptance speech was pretty clear: he talked less about Policy moves he wanted to make and more about how he wanted to be a President for all Americans, and bring back compromise. It seems pretty clear that the only mandate Joe thinks he has is to bring back competence, civility, and compromise.

I think it will be difficult, though. There is A LOT of money and energy in this Country around demonizing the other side. People don't tune in to Sean Hannity, or Glenn Beck, or Alex Jones, to listen to a moderate and rationale conversation about policy compromise. Those guys are making a lot of money whipping people into a frenzy of misinformation and rage. That's not even getting into what Trump and his surrogates will do, but I doubt it will inspire unity.

Raising the capital gains rate and making 401k contributions pre-tax is not for All Americans. Its hammering upper middle class to appease leftists who are on government pensions and elitists.

[Masterofreality]

Raising the capital gains rate and making 401k contributions pre-tax is not for All Americans. Its hammering upper middle class to appease leftists who are on government pensions and elitists.

And yet Wall Street gave more money to Biden than Trump. Go figure.

Yeah, Biden is really a man of the people and Trump was only for the rich. Large Eye Roll

[bigdiggins]

And yet Wall Street gave more money to Biden than Trump. Go figure.

Yeah, Biden is really a man of the people and Trump was only for the rich. Large Eye Roll

The rich aren't worried about their 401K, and they'll have plenty of loopholes.

[Masterofreality]

The rich aren't worried about their 401K, and they'll have plenty of loopholes.

By the way, certifying that Wall Street LOVES Biden, the Dow is up over 1,000 points today.

Yeah, way yo go Elitists!!!!!

[GoMuskies]

By the way, certifying that Wall Street LOVES Biden, the Dow is up over 1,000 points today.

Yeah, way yo go Elitists!!!!!

Pretty sure that's about 90% Pfizer vaccine related.

[Xville]

By the way, certifying that Wall Street LOVES Biden, the Dow is up over 1,000 points today.

Yeah, way yo go Elitists!!!!!

Wall street loves stability, and that is what we are going to have with a blue president and a red Senate. The government wont be able to eff things up.

[boozehound]

Raising the capital gains rate and making 401k contributions pre-tax is not for All Americans. Its hammering upper middle class to appease leftists who are on government pensions and elitists.

Have you read the 401(K) plan? This seems to be, at best, a significant mis-characterization.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of it, but I believe it offers a 26% refundable tax credit on 401(K) contributions, so it's not really "making 401K contributions pre-tax". The federal income tax rate is 24% for HHLDs earning up to $321K, so they would get a net benefit. I have to think most Americans making under $320K per year, right?

Even for higher earners - If you make $400K per year your top marginal tax rate is 32%, so the spread there is 6%. If you are maxing out at $19,500 per year it's going to cost you 6% of that - $1170. I'm not going to say I don't care about $1200, but I wouldn't even notice it missing.

Here is a linke to a Marketwatch article the explains it (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-a-president-joe-biden-would-mean-for-americans-retirement-savings-11604767234)

This plan would seem to benefit the vast majority of Americans while having a very minimal impact on high earners.

[Bad Billy Pratt]

Sorry, but the proposed 401-K rule changes will hurt the middle income earners - just like changes to tax policy usually does. From the Tax Foundation.

"There are drawbacks to this idea, however. First, Roth-style retirement accounts will become more attractive to higher earners, which could shift savings away from traditional accounts. Second, this plan would reduce the tax benefit of traditional retirement accounts for those earning above $80,250 but under $400,000, violating Biden’s tax pledge to not raise taxes on earners below the $400,000 threshold.

This proposal would be paired with additional changes, such as establishing an “auto-IRA” for lower-income Americans. There is an opportunity to reform and simplify America’s complicated retirement savings options short of replacing traditional tax deferral with tax credits. Simplifying the dizzying array of retirement and tax-neutral savings options would be a positive step forward for savers across all income levels."

The rich have loopholes and options; the rest of us not so much. Hoping for 51 R's in the Senate. Hard to plan for life when the rules keep getting changed on you.

[bigdiggins]

Have you read the 401(K) plan? This seems to be, at best, a significant mis-characterization.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of it, but I believe it offers a 26% refundable tax credit on 401(K) contributions, so it's not really "making 401K contributions pre-tax". The federal income tax rate is 24% for HHLDs earning up to $321K, so they would get a net benefit. I have to think most Americans making under $320K per year, right?

Even for higher earners - If you make $400K per year your top marginal tax rate is 32%, so the spread there is 6%. If you are maxing out at $19,500 per year it's going to cost you 6% of that - $1170. I'm not going to say I don't care about $1200, but I wouldn't even notice it missing.

Here is a linke to a Marketwatch article the explains it (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-a-president-joe-biden-would-mean-for-americans-retirement-savings-11604767234)

This plan would seem to benefit the vast majority of Americans while having a very minimal impact on high earners.

I am far from making $400k. So Biden's lie is going to impact me to redistribute wealth. But, as lefties all assume anything I have was given to me, couldn't be from hard work, and making the right choice, which wasn't always the easy choice. So, I should just be happy to pay more taxes and work hard for less, so it can go to others as you can rest assured they will find a way to ensure that anyone making $100k phases out of that credit anyway.

[boozehound]

I am far from making $400k. So Biden's lie is going to impact me to redistribute wealth. But, as lefties all assume anything I have was given to me, couldn't be from hard work, and making the right choice, which wasn't always the easy choice. So, I should just be happy to pay more taxes and work hard for less, so it can go to others as you can rest assured they will find a way to ensure that anyone making $100k phases out of that credit anyway.

I'm confused. Are you saying you make well over $400K per year? If so - good for you. If not, this plan would appear to benefit you.

If you make under $163K as an individual filer or $325K as a Married Joint Filer it looks like you would actually net positive from this change. Your highest marginal tax bracket is 24% but you would get a 26% refundable tax credit for your contribution. You would have to make north of $200K as an individual filer and probably close to $400K as a joint filer for this to result in you getting less tax benefit for your 401K contribution.

I don't really understand the rest of your post as to how it could possibly relate to the proposed tax code changes on retirement changes. It's also unclear if this is really a 'redistribution of wealth' of any kind. Unless you are clearing $400K per year (or $200K as an individual filer) no one is asking you to 'pay more taxes and work hard for less'.

[bigdiggins]

I'm confused. Are you saying you make well over $400K per year? If so - good for you. If not, this plan would appear to benefit you.

If you make under $163K as an individual filer or $325K as a Married Joint Filer it looks like you would actually net positive from this change. Your highest marginal tax bracket is 24% but you would get a 26% refundable tax credit for your contribution. You would have to make north of $200K as an individual filer and probably close to $400K as a joint filer for this to result in you getting less tax benefit for your 401K contribution.

I don't really understand the rest of your post as to how it could possibly relate to the proposed tax code changes on retirement changes. It's also unclear if this is really a 'redistribution of wealth' of any kind. Unless you are clearing $400K per year (or $200K as an individual filer) no one is asking you to 'pay more taxes and work hard for less'.

No, I'm saying I am far under $400k, and that Biden lied when saying his plan wouldn't raise my taxes. By taxing the 401k contributions of those in the $100k range, and lowering it on those in the $40k range it is punishing to those a bit higher on the scale.

In addition, the assumption (well let's be honest it wasn't an assumption he knew he was full of sh!t when he said it wasn't going to affect under $400k) that only those over $400k would have any investments and therefore no-one else would be impacted by drastically jacking up the capital gains rate is ridiculous.

[boozehound]

No, I'm saying I am far under $400k, and that Biden lied when saying his plan wouldn't raise my taxes. By taxing the 401k contributions of those in the $100k range, and lowering it on those in the $40k range it is punishing to those a bit higher on the scale.

In addition, the assumption (well let's be honest it wasn't an assumption he knew he was full of sh!t when he said it wasn't going to affect under $400k) that only those over $400k would have any investments and therefore no-one else would be impacted by drastically jacking up the capital gains rate is ridiculous.

Did you read the plan? You would be contributing after tax dollars to your 401K and receiving a 26% refundable tax credit.

Let's say you make $100K per year and are an individual filer. You would be taxed at a 24% marginal tax rate for anything you earn above $85K. Now lets say you contribute $10K per year to your 401K. In the current system you would normally pay $2400 in taxes on your contribution, but you pay $0 because it is pre-tax income. Under Biden's plan you would pay $2400 in taxes on your contribution at the time you contribute (after tax income at your highest marginal tax rate), however you would receive a $2600 tax credit when you filed your income taxes, which means you would would be $200 better off than the current plan.

I'm not sure what your comment about someone earning $40K is about. Are you saying you are against them receiving a tax benefit for contributing to their 401K, even if you also receive a greater benefit under this plan? That seems a little harsh.

I'm also curious as to how this is raising your taxes, and why you are so worried about the Capital Gains Tax changes proposed. Do you earn over $1MM and pay capital gains tax? If you don't, good news - your rates don't appear to change.

[JEHARDI]

By the way, certifying that Wall Street LOVES Biden, the Dow is up over 1,000 points today.

Yeah, way yo go Elitists!!!!!

You are as bad as the MSM, but keep spinning it to fit your narrative.

[bigdiggins]

Did you read the plan? You would be contributing after tax dollars to your 401K and receiving a 26% refundable tax credit.

Let's say you make $100K per year and are an individual filer. You would be taxed at a 24% marginal tax rate for anything you earn above $85K. Now lets say you contribute $10K per year to your 401K. In the current system you would normally pay $2400 in taxes on your contribution, but you pay $0 because it is pre-tax income. Under Biden's plan you would pay $2400 in taxes on your contribution at the time you contribute (after tax income at your highest marginal tax rate), however you would receive a $2600 tax credit when you filed your income taxes, which means you would would be $200 better off than the current plan.

I'm not sure what your comment about someone earning $40K is about. Are you saying you are against them receiving a tax benefit for contributing to their 401K, even if you also receive a greater benefit under this plan? That seems a little harsh.

I'm also curious as to how this is raising your taxes, and why you are so worried about the Capital Gains Tax changes proposed. Do you earn over $1MM and pay capital gains tax? If you don't, good news - your rates don't appear to change.

My comment on the impact vs $40k was that the justification to eliminate the pretax status is that those at $40k don;t get as big of a benefit as those at $100k. So punish the $100k because the $40k doesn't get as big. $100k is not exactly rich. Color me extremely skeptical that I don't somehow phase out of the tax credit. I'd also much rather have that in my 401k earning 15% this year, than waiting on a return from the govt.

On the capital gains I had not seen that it is only raising on $1M earners. Further research shows that while I hope this someday affects, me it likely will not. :)

[boozehound]

My comment on the impact vs $40k was that the justification to eliminate the pretax status is that those at $40k don;t get as big of a benefit as those at $100k. So punish the $100k because the $40k doesn't get as big. $100k is not exactly rich. Color me extremely skeptical that I don't somehow phase out of the tax credit. I'd also much rather have that in my 401k earning 15% this year, than waiting on a return from the govt.

On the capital gains I had not seen that it is only raising on $1M earners. Further research shows that while I hope this someday affects, me it likely will not. :)

I actually agree with you that I, personally, prefer the idea of contributing pre-tax vs receiving a credit. I think this is far from the end of the world though, and I'm willing to pay a little more in taxes here and there if it helps get the middle class on the right track. Right now many middle class families have very little retirement savings, and I think that's going to be a big issue for America in the next 20 years. I'm personally invested in keeping my money right now, but I'm also personally invested in my investment portfolio holding water and growing for the next 40+ years. I think it's going to be hard to do that if we don't have a strong middle class.

I really don't this plan as being something particularly radical that we should be fired up about.

[chico]

I don't know what's worse - the wailing and gnashing of teeth four years ago by the dems when Hillary lost or all the cries of a rigged election this year by republicans.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know what's worse - the wailing and gnashing of teeth four years ago by the dems when Hillary lost or all the cries of a rigged election this year by republicans.

This year, because my sports betting funds are essentially locked down until the Republicans concede or it becomes officially official. I need that money for frivolous Masters wagers!

[JTG]

I actually agree with you that I, personally, prefer the idea of contributing pre-tax vs receiving a credit. I think this is far from the end of the world though, and I'm willing to pay a little more in taxes here and there if it helps get the middle class on the right track. Right now many middle class families have very little retirement savings, and I think that's going to be a big issue for America in the next 20 years. I'm personally invested in keeping my money right now, but I'm also personally invested in my investment portfolio holding water and growing for the next 40+ years. I think it's going to be hard to do that if we don't have a strong middle class.

I really don't this plan as being something particularly radical that we should be fired up about.

Shouldn't the plan be "after tax contribution and a credit ? If the contribution is pre tax plus a credit, you are getting credited double. Yes ?

[chico]

This year, because my sports betting funds are essentially locked down until the Republicans concede or it becomes officially official. I need that money for frivolous Masters wagers!

Ha! I'm in the same boat.

[boozehound]

Shouldn't the plan be "after tax contribution and a credit ? If the contribution is pre tax plus a credit, you are getting credited double. Yes ?

Yes, that is the plan. Sorry if I was unclear. After tax contribution and a corresponding credit.

[GoMuskies]

Here is the most cogent analysis you're going to see about our current political moment. Sums it all up, I think.

https://twitter.com/heckyessica/status/1326205571721277440?s=20

[STL_XUfan]

This year, because my sports betting funds are essentially locked down until the Republicans concede or it becomes officially official. I need that money for frivolous Masters wagers!

Go, did you live bet the night of the election? I was listening to guess the lines with Simmons and Cousin Sal and had no idea that it got to Trump -600 Biden +260 at one point late Tuesday night.

[GoMuskies]

Go, did you live bet the night of the election? I was listening to guess the lines with Simmons and Cousin Sal and had no idea that it got to Trump -600 Biden +260 at one point late Tuesday night.

Yeah, I got Biden +300. Wish I'd have put more on it, of course, but the swings were wild. I went to bed at around 3 Eastern with Biden still around +150. By the time I got up, it was Biden -275 and I knew it was over.

[paulxu]

This year, because my sports betting funds are essentially locked down until the Republicans concede or it becomes officially official. I need that money for frivolous Masters wagers!

No worries. You'll get your money by January 20th, and the Masters is in April.

[xavierj]

No worries. You'll get your money by January 20th, and the Masters is in April.

Maybe this is a joke and I am slow, certainly possible, but the 2020 Masters starts this Thursday.

[paulxu]

Maybe this is a joke and I am slow, certainly possible, but the 2020 Masters starts this Thursday.

I see my attempt at humor fell flat. Sorry about that!

[paulxu]

It seems to me that dragging out the transition is going to be damaging to our country.

In 2016, Hillary lost by:
Mich 11,000
Penn 44,000
Wiscon 23,000

I would guess that in any of those state she could have asked for a recount.
But, she conceded the day after the election, and the transition from Obama to Trump started immediately.

In 2020, Trump is currently behind:
Mich 146,000
Penn 47,000
Wiscon 20,000

They may discover a few ballots here or there that aren't correct. But it's very unlikely to change the result.
So far the lawsuits have been dismissed by the courts (except I think for one where observers were allowed to move from 10' away to 6')

I can only hope they don't drag this out much longer and really damage us by creating difficulties that don't need to happen.

[XU 87]

One thing I noticed is that we have had no post-election riots, unlike the last post- election. Why do leftists commit crimes and riot when they lose an election?

[X-man]

One thing I noticed is that we have had no post-election riots, unlike the last post- election. Why do leftists commit crimes and riot when they lose an election?

Refresh my memory here. Where did the rioting happen when Trump won in 2016?

[xubrew]

One thing I noticed is that we have had no post-election riots, unlike the last post- election. Why do leftists commit crimes and riot when they lose an election?

What post election riots are you talking about? There were no riots in 2016. There were demonstrations, but that was it. Hillary Clinton conceded the election. So far as I know every candidate for every office that lost the election conceded it without incident. And besides, other than the presidency, the Republicans actually did pretty damn well. Most of the ones who aren't crazy are probably feeling pretty good about the results.

[XU 87]

Refresh my memory here. Where did the rioting happen when Trump won in 2016?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots#:~:text=On%20November%209%E2%80 %9312%2C%202016,and%20throwing%20bottles%20at%20po lice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots#:~:text=Portland%2C%20 Oregon%2C%20U.S.&text=On%20November%2010%2C%202016%2C%20three,presi dent%20of%20the%20United%20States.

This does not include the "mostly peaceful protests".

Hamilton County Courthouse was boarded up just prior to 2020 election. Of course, no riots since Biden won (or appears to have won.)

Here's some more left wing behavior when they lose:

"In Denver, protesters briefly shut down Interstate 25 near downtown. Police said demonstrators made their way onto the freeway and traffic was halted in the northbound and southbound lanes for about a half-hour. Protesters also briefly shut down interstate highways in Minneapolis and got into shoving matches with police in Oakland, Calif."

And I wonder if the conservative Des Moines high school students will do something similar this year:

"In Des Moines, Iowa, hundreds of students walked out of area high schools at 10:30 a.m. to protest Trump's victory, the Des Moines Register reported. The protests, which were coordinated on social media, lasted 15 to 45 minutes."

Trump lost. So this didn't happen:

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2020/10/27/americans-concerned-about-post-election-violence-as-police-prepare

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/02/930464598/election-2020-cities-and-businesses-prepare-for-post-election-unrest-violence

I also haven't heard of colleges cancelling exams this year post-election because their students were so traumatized:

https://reason.com/2016/11/10/colleges-cancelled-exams-for-students-tr/

[xubrew]

It seems to me that dragging out the transition is going to be damaging to our country.

In 2016, Hillary lost by:
Mich 11,000
Penn 44,000
Wiscon 23,000

I would guess that in any of those state she could have asked for a recount.
But, she conceded the day after the election, and the transition from Obama to Trump started immediately.

In 2020, Trump is currently behind:
Mich 146,000
Penn 47,000
Wiscon 20,000

They may discover a few ballots here or there that aren't correct. But it's very unlikely to change the result.
So far the lawsuits have been dismissed by the courts (except I think for one where observers were allowed to move from 10' away to 6')

I can only hope they don't drag this out much longer and really damage us by creating difficulties that don't need to happen.

I don't think Trump will concede, nor will he participate in the peaceful transition. He probably won't meet with Biden to help with the transition. His team might, but he probably won't.

I'm actually amazed to the point of where a very small part of me ALMOST admires the stubbornness. So far, his lawsuits have either been thrown out of court, or laughed out of court. If you've been following this some of the judges have been utterly perplexed at the lack of any actual case. Any recount or re-canvassing will undoubtedly produce the same results. Yet, he won't quit, nor will he ever acknowledge at any point in the future that he did in fact lose.

I can't help but wonder if part of this is utter desperation. If he has broken the law like many on the Left allege that he has, will a new Attorney General go after him?? I don't know if he's guilty of anything or not, and I am not going to make any allegations or suppositions. I will make an observation, though. Many people in his orbit have faced and been convicted of crimes. So, I can't help but wonder....

[Xville]

to be fair, there are riots in portland basically every day. There are so many radical groups on both sides that "demonstrate" in that freak of a city.

[xubrew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots#:~:text=On%20November%209%E2%80 %9312%2C%202016,and%20throwing%20bottles%20at%20po lice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots#:~:text=Portland%2C%20 Oregon%2C%20U.S.&text=On%20November%2010%2C%202016%2C%20three,presi dent%20of%20the%20United%20States.

This does not include the "mostly peaceful protests".

Hamilton County Courthouse was boarded up just prior to 2020 election. Of course, no riots since Biden won (or appears to have won.)

Here's some more left wing behavior when they lose:

"In Denver, protesters briefly shut down Interstate 25 near downtown. Police said demonstrators made their way onto the freeway and traffic was halted in the northbound and southbound lanes for about a half-hour. Protesters also briefly shut down interstate highways in Minneapolis and got into shoving matches with police in Oakland, Calif."

I admit that I don't really remember that, but it's very easy for me to believe that it happened. It's pretty on brand for the woke shitheads. The Reps typically don't flip their shit like that (incumbent president excluded).

[paulxu]

The difference, and it is a big one, is that party and leader of the party (Hillary in 2016) doesn't call for, or condone the illegal behavior as noted above.
We've currently got a president who encourages violence, and winks at those who do it in his name.
I've got my fingers crossed that the statehouse demonstrations by heavily armed Trump supporters stay peaceful. They seem ripe for trouble.

[XU 87]

We've currently got a president who encourages violence, and winks at those who do it in his name.
I've got my fingers crossed that the statehouse demonstrations by heavily armed Trump supporters stay peaceful. They seem ripe for trouble.

Can you show me one post 2020 election riot?

In fact, I note above that the behavior the left engaged in after 2016. Can you show my any of the similar behavior from the right after 2020? Any exams get cancelled or Trump supporters shutting down highways?

[Xville]

The difference, and it is a big one, is that party and leader of the party (Hillary in 2016) doesn't call for, or condone the illegal behavior as noted above.
We've currently got a president who encourages violence, and winks at those who do it in his name.
I've got my fingers crossed that the statehouse demonstrations by heavily armed Trump supporters stay peaceful. They seem ripe for trouble.

lol there really is to no end you will defend your side and turn it to Trump is there? It's pretty comical at this point.

[paulxu]

Can you show me one post 2020 election riot?

In fact, I note above that the behavior the left engaged in after 2016. Can you show my any of the similar behavior from the right after 2020? Any exams get cancelled or Trump supporters shutting down highways?

I didn't say there were any riots. I hope there won't be. If you actually read my post you'll see the following: "statehouse demonstrations"
If I had seen any riots I would have pointed them out. Sometimes I just don't understand you guys.

[XU 87]

I didn't say there were any riots. I hope there won't be. If you actually read my post you'll see the following: "statehouse demonstrations"
If I had seen any riots I would have pointed them out. Sometimes I just don't understand you guys.

You said, "Trump encourages violence and winks at those who do it in his name." So, show me where any post-election riots have occurred in the name of Trump. And show me where Trump supporters since 2020 election have engaged in shutting down highways and cancelling college exams.

We had all these concerns about post election violence, but we have had no post election violence. Why is that? You know why, but you won't admit it- to do so would go against your left wing fictional narrative.

[Bad Billy Pratt]

The word obtuse comes to mind as I read some of these posts; wow, just wow.

[bobbiemcgee]

You know a lot about lying, don't ya, Bobbie....

I see Cavuto had to cut off your girl Kayleigh again for lying. So I'd say you know a lot about lying, as in lying about lying. Pretty bad when Fox unfair and unbalanced pulls a trump liar. hahah

[STL_XUfan]

You said, "Trump encourages violence and winks at those who do it in his name." So, show me where any post-election riots have occurred in the name of Trump. And show me where Trump supporters since 2020 election have engaged in shutting down highways and cancelling college exams.

We had all these concerns about post election violence, but we have had no post election violence. Why is that? You know why, but you won't admit it- to do so would go against your left wing fictional narrative.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/qanon-arrest-philadelphia-plot-election-2020-20201106.html

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroit-police-investigating-bomb-threat-at-tcf-center

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/philadelphia-elections-officials-death-threats-20201109.html

Violence on all sides should be condemned.

[paulxu]

You said, "Trump encourages violence and winks at those who do it in his name." So, show me where any post-election riots have occurred in the name of Trump. And show me where Trump supporters since 2020 election have engaged in shutting down highways and cancelling college exams.

We had all these concerns about post election violence, but we have had no post election violence. Why is that? You know why, but you won't admit it- to do so would go against your left wing fictional narrative.

'87, I really don't understand. Trump encouraging violence is very well documented.
I have not said there has been any violence. I have only said I hope we don't have any.
You note no Trump supporters shut down highways "post" election, so I see why you were so careful with that since they did before the election.

I remain hopeful we'll have no violence. If he would concede like Hillary, it would be a great service to the country and help in lowering tensions, and move on to a smooth transition.

[boozehound]

It seems to me that dragging out the transition is going to be damaging to our country.

In 2016, Hillary lost by:
Mich 11,000
Penn 44,000
Wiscon 23,000

I would guess that in any of those state she could have asked for a recount.
But, she conceded the day after the election, and the transition from Obama to Trump started immediately.

In 2020, Trump is currently behind:
Mich 146,000
Penn 47,000
Wiscon 20,000

They may discover a few ballots here or there that aren't correct. But it's very unlikely to change the result.
So far the lawsuits have been dismissed by the courts (except I think for one where observers were allowed to move from 10' away to 6')

I can only hope they don't drag this out much longer and really damage us by creating difficulties that don't need to happen.

We know the transition is going to be a mess - nobody in this administration cares one iota about the United States of America. It's all a big con.

What I'm starting to get a little more concerned about is all the talk from the Trump administration about not accepting the results, along with the support that they seem to be getting from the Republican establishment. This is not a particularly close election, as you highlighted above, and thus far (despite a lot of fishing) no credible evidence of voter fraud has been presented anywhere that rises above the level of unsubstantiated allegation.

It's interesting to me - so many on the Right claim to be Patriots, but they are willing to erode the bedrock of our Democracy for this? I don't get it. They are literally attacking the very concept of free and fair elections, without any meaningful evidence. I guess it's just much easier to fly a flag than it is to actually accept that your populist nationalist President has lost an election.

Edit: The claims of large scale vote rigging also don't pass the 'what would you have to believe for this to be true' test. The Democratic party (not always the brightest bulbs) would have had to somehow pull off rigging the election without (thus far) leaving any evidence, while simultaneously not bothering to rig the Senate or the House? Why they hell would they do that?

[XU88]

XU87 might be interested in this (https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-democratic-campaign-office-biden-smashed-windows-vandalism). Seems these Portland nut jobs are angry with Biden’s win too. Interesting.

As for protesters shutting down highways, this happened pre-election but the stupid behavior is the same (https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/523937-trump-fans-block-traffic-on-new-york-bridge) (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-train-maga-colorado-us-2020-election-biden-b1515257.html).

Point is, there are enough idiots to go around for all sides. Acting like this isn’t true just defies fact and reason. It’s also the reason why sound political discourse is such a rare thing these days.

[chico]

You know it's funny that both sides have such selective memory. All the republican chants of an illegitimate election kind of sound familiar - this is from the Wall Street Journal:

Here’s Hillary Clinton from September 2019, nearly three years after her defeat: “He knows he’s an illegitimate president. I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories, he knows that there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.”

Or Jimmy Carter in June 2019. “There’s no doubt that the Russians did interfere in the election. And I think the interference, although not yet quantified, if fully investigated would show that Trump didn’t actually win the election in 2016. He lost the election and he was put into office because the Russians interfered on his behalf.” Asked if that meant he regarded Mr. Trump as an “illegitimate president,” Mr. Carter said yes.

In January 2017, Rep. Jerrold Nadler said he was boycotting Mr. Trump’s inauguration (along with one-third of his fellow House Democrats) because, though the president was “legally elected,” he wasn’t “legitimate.” During impeachment, another effort to reject the 2016 election, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the House had no choice but to act because Mr. Trump was “trying to corrupt, once again, the election for his benefit.” Not to mention the ridiculous attempts to paint a candidate who attracted more minority votes than any Republican in recent history as a champion of white supremacy.

Mr. Biden piled on with the rest of them. In the first debate he called Mr. Trump a “racist,” building on his earlier claim that Mr. Trump was America’s first racist president. During a May 2019 campaign stop in New Hampshire, a woman came up to Mr. Biden and said Mr. Trump was “an illegitimate president in my mind.” Mr. Biden’s response? “I absolutely agree.”

I know a certain segment on here are going to gloss right over this and go on with their finger pointing at the other side, but until both sides realize they're part of the problem this crap will only escalate.

[XU_Lou]

Would Any of This Be Right?

Now, for those fair-minded people who support Biden, may I ask a few questions? Do you believe

It would be wrong for election supervisors to coach workers to correct mail-in ballots for Biden, but not for Trump?

That it would also be wrong for election workers to coach voters to vote for Biden and Democrats, and follow them to the ballot station?

It would be wrong for poll workers to go out to a Biden-Harris van in the middle of the night and fill out ballots?

That it would be likewise wrong for poll workers to fill in the names of people who hadn’t yet voted when a “voter” comes in who is not on the voter rolls?
It’s wrong for poll workers to ignore matching signature requirements?

That it’s wrong for counting centers to keep Republican poll watchers from observing hundreds of thousands of mail-in ballots?

It was wrong for Philadelphia Democrats to ignore a court order that demanded poll watchers have their rightful access?

That it’s wrong for a Democratic- controlled ballot-counting center Fulton County, Georgia to tell GOP observers they were done counting for the night … then resume counting the minute the observers left?

It was wrong for Nevada voting officials to fabricate proof of residence data for non-eligible voters?

That it was likewise wrong for postal supervisors in several states to order workers to pre-date late arriving ballots, so it would falsely appear they arrived on time?

It is wrong to cast ballots using the dead?

That it is wrong to count ballots from people ineligible to vote in a particular state?

It is wrong for a state supreme court to ignore state law and the U.S. constitution to change the voting rules right before an election? Rules guaranteed to make the process more susceptible to fraud?

https://stream.org/what-would-it-take-to-convince-you-the-election-was-rigged/

[XU_Lou]

Would Any of This Be Suspicious?

Now, my Biden-supporting (or Trump-hating) friends, can we do a little gut check? Aren’t you a little bit queasy about …

Tens of thousands of ballots suddenly appearing from out-of-state with only the presidential race filled out … and all filled out for Joe Biden?

Hundreds of thousands of votes popping up overnight election night … after the inexplicable halt in counting … in some places, 100% for Joe Biden?

Philadelphia, a city notorious for election fraud, absolutely refusing to let Republican observers anywhere near the people handling mail-in ballots?

In several states, piles of Trump votes suddenly getting taken from him, then the same exact number suddenly popping up for Biden?

Dominion, the company behind the election system used in these states, being connected to the Clinton Foundation and George Soros?

Dozens of states accepting Dominion’s system, despite its security weaknesses being so evident that Texas rejected it three times?

The Associated Press reporting just last year that Dominion and its sister companies “had long skimped on security in favor of convenience and operated under a shroud of financial and operational secrecy despite their critical role in elections.”

Lindsay Graham’s report on evidence of a ballot harvesting operation at Pennsylvania nursing homes which could have netted Biden 25,000 votes? (Ballot harvesting is illegal in Pennsylvania.)

Biden vote totals in specific swing cities … and nowhere else … exceeding Obama’s by up to 40%?

Vote tallies for Biden in Milwaukee exceeding Obama’s 2008 landslide … despite Milwaukee having fewer people than it did in 2008? (And despite Donald Trump greatly increasing his share of the minority vote.)

Joe Biden underperforming Hillary Clinton almost everywhere … except in a couple crucial swing state cities … and only after counting in those states was halted?

Joe Biden handily losing bell-weather states Florida and Ohio, but somehow defying history and won? This despite very little campaigning, a non-existent ground game, and a campaign message that ran counter to the economic interests of the American people.


https://stream.org/what-would-it-take-to-convince-you-the-election-was-rigged/

[XU 87]

https://www.inquirer.com/news/qanon-arrest-philadelphia-plot-election-2020-20201106.html

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroit-police-investigating-bomb-threat-at-tcf-center

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/philadelphia-elections-officials-death-threats-20201109.html

Violence on all sides should be condemned.

We on the right condemn political violence. You on the left- not so much. After all, the rioters are usually democratic voters. And it's the police's fault that causes this violence. So we should get rid of the police and just hire more social workers. If we just did this, and also let more people out of jail, this would solve our crime problem.

I will add- how do you know those were Trump supporters that called in the two bomb threats? Even if they were, the articles you cite are a far cry from the left wing riots we have seen after 2016 election and before 2020 election. That said, whoever did the bomb threats should be found and prosecuted. Period. End of story.

But I ask again- why didn't we get all this expected post election violence that was expected across the country?

[paulxu]

I decided to take one item from your long list to look at; the one with my Senator Lindsey Graham.

It says: "Lindsay Graham’s report on evidence of a ballot harvesting operation at Pennsylvania nursing homes which could have netted Biden 25,000 votes? (Ballot harvesting is illegal in Pennsylvania.)"

So, I look up the article that is linked in that statement and find: "Graham did not present any evidence."
He has a "report" on evidence, but doesn't present any evidence. I'll wait for some evidence.

As to people attempting violence, I'll remind everyone of this:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/us/cesar-sayoc-letter-trump-rallies/index.html

[bobbiemcgee]

Poor Lindsay. His star witness mailman just recanted his story in PA:
There goes that case.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8935837/Mailman-key-PA-voter-fraud-witness-Pennsylvania-recants-completely.html

Another lying sack of poop. Hope they prosecute.

[bobbiemcgee]

Fox news seems to be more delusional than VD. Pompeo and the talking heads over there still think tRUMP won.:disturbed: Apparently they can't count.

[paulxu]

The worst part about that, is that Graham used the postal guy as a reason to write Barr, who reversed long standing DOJ guidelines about investigating prior to certification.

There may be isolated incidences of problems in the voting (so far with no evidence of fraud, or election impact) but the entire narrative is screwed.
That, however, won't keep grifters from griftting.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-fundraising-election-2020

[XU_Lou]

Fox news seems to be more delusional than VD. Pompeo and the talking heads over there still think tRUMP won.:disturbed: Apparently they can't count.

Clear the room boys!! The old man just farted again!

[XU_Lou]

I decided to take one item from your long list to look at; the one with my Senator Lindsey Graham.

It says: "Lindsay Graham’s report on evidence of a ballot harvesting operation at Pennsylvania nursing homes which could have netted Biden 25,000 votes? (Ballot harvesting is illegal in Pennsylvania.)"

So, I look up the article that is linked in that statement and find: "Graham did not present any evidence."
He has a "report" on evidence, but doesn't present any evidence. I'll wait for some evidence.

As to people attempting violence, I'll remind everyone of this:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/us/cesar-sayoc-letter-trump-rallies/index.html

Thanks Paul, for that ONE example. Give me a few hours and I'll dump a few thousand in here from your side from just this past summer.

Please, child.....

[XU_Lou]

Poor Lindsay. His star witness mailman just recanted his story in PA:
There goes that case.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8935837/Mailman-key-PA-voter-fraud-witness-Pennsylvania-recants-completely.html

Another lying sack of poop. Hope they prosecute.

Not so fast there Little Bobbie - you can't escape the facts:

"Mr. Hopkins said The Washington Post put out fake news and he wants them to recant the story."

"Mr. Hopkins later said the feds intimidated him into watering down the story, but he did not recant."

---------------

RECORDING: Federal agents “coerce” USPS whistleblower Hopkins to water down story

Agent Strasser: “I am trying to twist you a little bit”

“I am scaring you here”...” we have Senators involved...DOJ involved...reason they called me is to try to harness.”

https://www.independentsentinel.com/okeefe-releases-a-tape-of-feds-intimidating-usps-worker-alleging-ballot-tampering/

Bottom line: the Democrats cheated on a grand scale - that cannot be denied.

Biden is illegitimate.

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe he's just a chronic liar like you:

"USPS IG investigators informed Committee staff today that they interviewed Hopkins on Friday, but that Hopkins RECANTED HIS ALLEGATIONS yesterday and did not explain why he signed a false affidavit."

[tacopizza885]

Bottom line: the Democrats cheated on a grand scale - that cannot be denied.

Biden is illegitimate.


https://youtu.be/KGAAhzreGWw

...

[XU_Lou]

Maybe he's just a chronic liar like you:

Seriously, is that the best you can do? Project onto me what I've already defined you as?

I'm beginning to feel like I'm talking to one of those UD losers up north....

[XU '11]

It seems to me that dragging out the transition is going to be damaging to our country.

In 2016, Hillary lost by:
Mich 11,000
Penn 44,000
Wiscon 23,000

I would guess that in any of those state she could have asked for a recount.
But, she conceded the day after the election, and the transition from Obama to Trump started immediately.

In 2020, Trump is currently behind:
Mich 146,000
Penn 47,000
Wiscon 20,000

They may discover a few ballots here or there that aren't correct. But it's very unlikely to change the result.
So far the lawsuits have been dismissed by the courts (except I think for one where observers were allowed to move from 10' away to 6')

I can only hope they don't drag this out much longer and really damage us by creating difficulties that don't need to happen.

In 2016, recounts were called for in all 3 of those states plus Nevada. Clinton just had the optics cover because Jill Stein technically requested them.

Generally, I agree that Trump has no shot and the recounts and legal challenges are a waste of time. But if you’re comparing numbers to talk about the closeness of the election, you should use the closest states that would get Trump to 270.

Georgia 14,000
Arizona 13,000
Wisconsin 20,000

The margins are pretty similar, just in different states.

[paulxu]

Good point. I think in some of those states the campaign may have to pay for the recount now.

[boozehound]

You know it's funny that both sides have such selective memory. All the republican chants of an illegitimate election kind of sound familiar - this is from the Wall Street Journal:

Here’s Hillary Clinton from September 2019, nearly three years after her defeat: “He knows he’s an illegitimate president. I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories, he knows that there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.”

Or Jimmy Carter in June 2019. “There’s no doubt that the Russians did interfere in the election. And I think the interference, although not yet quantified, if fully investigated would show that Trump didn’t actually win the election in 2016. He lost the election and he was put into office because the Russians interfered on his behalf.” Asked if that meant he regarded Mr. Trump as an “illegitimate president,” Mr. Carter said yes.

In January 2017, Rep. Jerrold Nadler said he was boycotting Mr. Trump’s inauguration (along with one-third of his fellow House Democrats) because, though the president was “legally elected,” he wasn’t “legitimate.” During impeachment, another effort to reject the 2016 election, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the House had no choice but to act because Mr. Trump was “trying to corrupt, once again, the election for his benefit.” Not to mention the ridiculous attempts to paint a candidate who attracted more minority votes than any Republican in recent history as a champion of white supremacy.

Mr. Biden piled on with the rest of them. In the first debate he called Mr. Trump a “racist,” building on his earlier claim that Mr. Trump was America’s first racist president. During a May 2019 campaign stop in New Hampshire, a woman came up to Mr. Biden and said Mr. Trump was “an illegitimate president in my mind.” Mr. Biden’s response? “I absolutely agree.”

I know a certain segment on here are going to gloss right over this and go on with their finger pointing at the other side, but until both sides realize they're part of the problem this crap will only escalate.

I agree with most of this, but I do think the the 'both sides do this' approach normalizes a lot of (extremely) abnormal shit that Trump has done, and continues to do. For example, the consistent refusal to acknowledge the election results, refusal to commit to a peaceful transition of power, and attacking the vote is fundamentally flawed without evidence. Now we seem to be reaching the part where he is firing the remaining people who push back on him (See: Mark Esper) and installing his loyalists. That's a strange thing to do with 2 months left in power.

When the Democrats lost in 2016 they (relatively quietly) asked for a recount in key states, then conceded. There was no noise about Barack Obama ceding power to Hillary Clinton because they felt the election was unfair. They had him to the White House for a transition meeting. Several people then made one-off comments (after peacefully transitioning power) that they felt the legitimacy of the Trump Presidency was in question due to the evidence of Russian collusion. This all occurred well after Trump took office.

Key Difference (in my mind): The Democrats were alleging that an individual (the President, but still an individual) committed an act of serious wrongdoing. They did not attack the institution like Trump is doing right now. I think that is a pretty significant difference.

This sounds like Trump vs Democrats thing, but it's really a Trump vs Everyone else thing. No Republican has behaved in a similar manner before either, and actual Republicans with Principles are appalled at what is going on.

[XU_Lou]

I agree with most of this, but I do think the the 'both sides do this' approach normalizes a lot of (extremely) abnormal shit that Trump has done, and continues to do. For example, the consistent refusal to acknowledge the election results, refusal to commit to a peaceful transition of power, and attacking the vote is fundamentally flawed without evidence.


Umm, see posts 8659 and 8660 - there's a real good reason why there's no concession. Additionally, even RCP doesn't have Joe at 270: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/



When the Democrats lost in 2016 they (relatively quietly) asked for a recount in key states, then conceded. There was no noise about Barack Obama ceding power to Hillary Clinton because they felt the election was unfair. They had him to the White House for a transition meeting. Several people then made one-off comments (after peacefully transitioning power) that they felt the legitimacy of the Trump Presidency was in question due to the evidence of Russian collusion. This all occurred well after Trump took office.

This is completely delusional - and a re-writing of history. The coup/conspiracy against Trump started well before any ballots were cast. Afterwards, there was a pounding of drums for over three years that Trump colluded with the Russians - by the media and the Democrats in Congress. Have you ever heard of Adam Schiff (as just one example)??

[XU_Lou]

As a follow-up to posts 8659 and 8660, here's a series of 4 very short clips showing "The statistical case against a Biden win":

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326298952774381575

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326299601574522880

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326300100742828033

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326300733998764033

Let me be perfectly clear: the Democrats absolutely committed massive fraud in this election. Did they commit enough fraud to actually overturn it? Obviously I don't know. However, Trump has every right to challenge the results and have them reviewed by the courts before conceding, if indeed he lost when all the dust has settled.

[boozehound]

Umm, see posts 8659 and 8660 - there's a real good reason why there's no concession. Additionally, even RCP doesn't have Joe at 270: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/




This is completely delusional - and a re-writing of history. The coup/conspiracy against Trump started well before any ballots were cast. Afterwards, there was a pounding of drums for over three years that Trump colluded with the Russians - by the media and the Democrats in Congress. Have you ever heard of Adam Schiff (as just one example)??

I'm sorry, I'm just not going to engage with you. You have repeatedly shown either an inability, or an unwillingness, to consider any alternative viewpoints coupled with repeated posting of links to fringe media sources stated as fact. I do think it's important to give you the courtesy of explaining why I'm not going to respond to your post, though. Go Muskies!

[Xville]

I'm sorry, I'm just not going to engage with you. You have repeatedly shown either an inability, or an unwillingness, to consider any alternative viewpoints coupled with repeated posting of links to fringe media sources stated as fact. I do think it's important to give you the courtesy of explaining why I'm not going to respond to your post, though. Go Muskies!

Hi kettle, I'm pot...you're black

[boozehound]

Hi kettle, I'm pot...you're black

I think if you read the content of my posts you would find that I'm pretty moderate, as I have explained several times. Feel free to never respond to me again if you feel otherwise.

[XU_Lou]

I'm sorry, I'm just not going to engage with you. You have repeatedly shown either an inability, or an unwillingness, to consider any alternative viewpoints coupled with repeated posting of links to fringe media sources stated as fact. I do think it's important to give you the courtesy of explaining why I'm not going to respond to your post, though. Go Muskies!

In other words, you can't handle the truth....

[XU 87]

QUOTE=boozehound;683752]I think if you read the content of my posts you would find that I'm pretty moderate, as I have explained several times. Feel free to never respond to me again if you feel otherwise.[/QUOTE]

LOL. You're not a moderate. Maybe you think you're a moderate as compared to the rioters and AOC, but you're not a moderate. It's ok to admit you're a liberal. It might even be cathartic for you.

And I admit- I'm a conservative.

[Xville]

I think if you read the content of my posts you would find that I'm pretty moderate, as I have explained several times. Feel free to never respond to me again if you feel otherwise.

You're a moderate like I'm an AOC supporter. You really need to rid yourself of that narrative and be honest with yourself. You're not a moderate.

[boozehound]

LOL. You're not a moderate. Maybe you think you're a moderate as compared to the rioters and AOC, but you're not a moderate. It's ok to admit you're a liberal. It might even be cathartic for you.

And I admit- I'm a conservative.

We have had this exact conversation before, I think.

Unfortunately your party has become so twisted by Trump that I think some of you have lost the thread on what conservatism actually is (or maybe, was). It's not Populism, and it's not Nationalism, which are the two things I see in Trump. He has admittedly delivered some conservative wins - mostly Supreme Court seats and reduced regulation. I don't think populism is an effective form of government. I didn't think it was good when Obama pulled the populist level, and I don't think it's good now that Trump is.

I understand that it may seem like I'm a Liberal because I'm absolutely opposed to Donald Trump as President, but there is more to the Republican platform than Trump, right?

[XU_Lou]

Unfortunately your party has become so twisted by Trump that I think some of you have lost the thread on what conservatism actually is (or maybe, was).

Twisted in reality? Or twisted as you perceive it to be as a result of fake news and fake narratives perpetrated on you by propagandists?

Twisted? Yea, peace, prosperity and freedom is real twisted....

[X-band '01]

Good point. I think in some of those states the campaign may have to pay for the recount now.

More likely that would be in states where the Trump campaign requested a recount. I think Georgia has an automatic recount because of the margin of Biden's lead.

[xubrew]

As a follow-up to posts 8659 and 8660, here's a series of 4 very short clips showing "The statistical case against a Biden win":

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326298952774381575

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326299601574522880

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326300100742828033

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326300733998764033

Let me be perfectly clear: the Democrats absolutely committed massive fraud in this election. Did they commit enough fraud to actually overturn it? Obviously I don't know. However, Trump has every right to challenge the results and have them reviewed by the courts before conceding, if indeed he lost when all the dust has settled.

For the first video, the voter turnout in Wisconsin was 72%, not 91%, so that's just totally wrong - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/05/fact-check-wisconsin-voter-turnout-line-past-elections/6176028002/

The second video I'm not sure about

The third video is suspicious of 450k ballots across the nation that only voted for Biden and didn't vote for any other races. Over 148 million people voted nationally. That brings the total number of ballots that only voted for Biden and did not vote for any other races to a wopping 0.3%. How does that even rise to the level of being suspicious? That's not a statistical anomaly. That's a statistical normalcy.

As for the fourth video...maybe?? But it would have been nice had he cited a source. I'm also wondering how he came up with that figure at all since Pennsylvania has not actually finished canvasing all the votes yet, nor have they (or anyone else) actually certified their results.


I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Trump lost. I get being upset that he lost. What I don't get is how it doesn't make sense to people. I mean...are people so out of touch with the world that they live in?? Things that this is on par with include...

-Louisville basketball fans thinking that it was all a scam, that Pitino knew nothing, and that if they just keep investigating eventually the real truth will come out!! Actually, Trump supporters who think Trump won are probably worse than that because there is even more evidence and reason to believe that he didn't, but yet more people seem to believe it.

-This doesn't actually exist, but if it did...the band members and fans of the band Oingo Boingo thinking "What the hell?? Why aren't we in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame??!! IT MUST BE RIGGED!!!" No, you just clearly don't belong there, and anyone with any sense at all knows that.

-UNC Asheville fans who think their program is on par with Duke. If any exist. CLEARLY, they are not.

-People who think Rob Schneider deserves an Oscar. For anything. CLEARLY, he does not.


Even if you like Trump, I don't see how you can be so far outside of reality that it makes no sense to you that he lost. OF COURSE he lost! Way more people dislike him than like him. That's all any legit and fair investigation is going to turn up. The majority of people who were legally allowed to vote and decided to listen to medical experts and vote by mail rather than vote in person voted against him. THAT'S NOT REMOTELY SUSPICIOUS!!! SHEESH!!!

Like everyone else, I like Xavier basketball, but if someone ran a poll as to which program was better...UCLA in the 1960s and 1970s, or Xavier from 2002 until now, I have enough sense to know what the results of that poll would be. I'd sound like an imbecile if I tried to argue that the poll was rigged if UCLA came out ahead.

[XU_Lou]

For the first video, the voter turnout in Wisconsin was 72%, not 91%, so that's just totally wrong - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/05/fact-check-wisconsin-voter-turnout-line-past-elections/6176028002/

The second video I'm not sure about

The third video is suspicious of 450k ballots across the nation that only voted for Biden and didn't vote for any other races. Over 148 million people voted nationally. That brings the total number of ballots that only voted for Biden and did not vote for any other races to a wopping 0.3%. How does that even rise to the level of being suspicious? That's not a statistical anomaly. That's a statistical normalcy.

As for the fourth video...maybe?? But it would have been nice had he cited a source. I'm also wondering how he came up with that figure at all since Pennsylvania has not actually finished canvasing all the votes yet, nor have they (or anyone else) actually certified their results.


I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Trump lost. I get being upset that he lost. What I don't get is how it doesn't make sense to people. I mean...are people so out of touch with the world that they live in?? Things that this is on par with include...

-Louisville basketball fans thinking that it was all a scam, that Pitino knew nothing, and that if they just keep investigating eventually the real truth will come out!! Actually, Trump supporters who think Trump won are probably worse than that because there is even more evidence and reason to believe that he didn't, but yet more people seem to believe it.

-This doesn't actually exist, but if it did...the band members and fans of the band Oingo Boingo thinking "What the hell?? Why aren't we in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame??!! IT MUST BE RIGGED!!!" No, you just clearly don't belong there, and anyone with any sense at all knows that.

-UNC Asheville fans who think their program is on par with Duke. If any exist. CLEARLY, they are not.

-People who think Rob Schneider deserves an Oscar. For anything. CLEARLY, he does not.


Even if you like Trump, I don't see how you can be so far outside of reality that it makes no sense to you that he lost. OF COURSE he lost! Way more people dislike him than like him. That's all any legit and fair investigation is going to turn up. The majority of people who were legally allowed to vote and decided to listen to medical experts and vote by mail rather than vote in person voted against him. THAT'S NOT REMOTELY SUSPICIOUS!!! SHEESH!!!

Like everyone else, I like Xavier basketball, but if someone ran a poll as to which program was better...UCLA in the 1960s and 1970s, or Xavier from 2002 until now, I have enough sense to know what the results of that poll would be. I'd sound like an imbecile if I tried to argue that the poll was rigged if UCLA came out ahead.

Did you not read this: "Let me be perfectly clear: the Democrats absolutely committed massive fraud in this election. Did they commit enough fraud to actually overturn it? Obviously I don't know. However, Trump has every right to challenge the results and have them reviewed by the courts before conceding, if indeed he lost when all the dust has settled."

Actually, Trump has his highest approval rating right now: https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_nov11

Looks like to me that more people DO like Trump - and maybe there's some buyers remorse going on.... Or maybe they're appalled by all of the fraud and corruption among Democrats....

[paulxu]

Go and Nigel.
What's the current line on whether Trump attends Biden's inauguration?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Go and Nigel.
What's the current line on whether Trump attends Biden's inauguration?

Here ya go, Paul...

https://www.the360mag.com/will-trump-attend-inauguration/

[boozehound]

Even if you like Trump, I don't see how you can be so far outside of reality that it makes no sense to you that he lost. OF COURSE he lost! Way more people dislike him than like him. That's all any legit and fair investigation is going to turn up. The majority of people who were legally allowed to vote and decided to listen to medical experts and vote by mail rather than vote in person voted against him. THAT'S NOT REMOTELY SUSPICIOUS!!! SHEESH!!!


Right. Trump materially outperformed the polling data, which suggested that he was going to lose by a significantly worse margin. It doesn't pass the 'what would you have to believe for this to be true' test that the Democrats were actually able to perpetrate election fraud on this level, with (thus far) no material evidence (despite offering cash rewards for evidence of voter fraud).

You would have to believe that Democrats were able to pull off a large scale voter fraud to get Biden what increasingly looks like over 300 electoral votes, but somehow you couldn't rig the down ballot races for the Senate and House?

For some reason it appears that a lot of people have a portion of their self worth wrapped up in Trump, and it's making them do and say ridiculous things. Hopefully the spell gets broken soon.

[boozehound]

Here ya go, Paul...

https://www.the360mag.com/will-trump-attend-inauguration/

I don't really gamble, but I'd take the money on Trump not attending, even at 1/3 odds.

[GoMuskies]

Good info Nigel. The only current line available from my book on these sorts of matters is whether Melania will divorce the Don in the next 12 months.

No is a slight favorite (-270 to +180) over yes.

[STL_XUfan]

Good info Nigel. The only current line available from my book on these sorts of matters is whether Melania will divorce the Don in the next 12 months.

No is a slight favorite (-270 to +180) over yes.

Is this Divorced filed or actually granted. Seems like there would be some finances to unravel that could cause a delay depending how well the prenup was drafted (and if Michael Cohen did it, I don't have much faith in it).

As far as inauguration, is the bet invalidated if they have a virtual inauguration? You have to think there is a decent chance that the Biden administration chooses not to have their first official act be a super spreader event.

[Masterofreality]

The Lincoln Project guys just continue to grift.

They took hundreds of millions of dollars from gullible Dem donors and produced zero. EVERY candidate they threw their "support" behind down ticket lost, and now they have their hand out again trying to raise money for them to start a network. A bunch of washed up failed Repubs, like Bill Kristol, who managed losing campaigns trying to stay relevant. But they sure faked "them" out and lined their pockets damn well.

Zero and 7 in key Senate races despite spending $12 million to defeat folks like Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins. Grifters Plus.

[Masterofreality]

We have had this exact conversation before, I think.

Unfortunately your party has become so twisted by Trump that I think some of you have lost the thread on what conservatism actually is (or maybe, was). It's not Populism, and it's not Nationalism, which are the two things I see in Trump. He has admittedly delivered some conservative wins - mostly Supreme Court seats and reduced regulation. I don't think populism is an effective form of government. I didn't think it was good when Obama pulled the populist level, and I don't think it's good now that Trump is.

I understand that it may seem like I'm a Liberal because I'm absolutely opposed to Donald Trump as President, but there is more to the Republican platform than Trump, right?

Ok. Who are you pulling for in the Georgia Senate races? Were you for John James in Michigan over a totally inept Peters?
Who were you pulling for in the Down ticket races? That will tell the tale.
Finally, what is your thought on Amy Coney Barrett? Accomplished, incredibly smart and qualified woman who happens to be a Conservative? And don't deflect on the Garland/McConnell thing. If you are unable to support a Catholic woman to be on the Supreme Court who has amazing principles, then you are not in any way balanced.

[boozehound]

Ok. Who are you pulling for in the Georgia Senate races? Were you for John James in Michigan over a totally inept Peters?
Who were you pulling for in the Down ticket races? That will tell the tale.
Finally, what is your thought on Amy Coney Barrett? Accomplished, incredibly smart and qualified woman who happens to be a Conservative? And don't deflect on the Garland/McConnell thing. If you are unable to support a Catholic woman to be on the Supreme Court who has amazing principles, then you are not in any way balanced.

I really haven't given any thought to Senate races in states in which I do not live, and I don't really consume any non-policy related political content (i.e. no Podcasts / talk radio etc.) so I don't actually even know who is running in Georgia, much less what their qualifications are.

I also don't really see how liking Amy Coney Barrett is somehow the determining factor for whether someone is a moderate or not. She would seem to be potentially the least moderate of the justices that Trump has nominated. I do think that the very fact that confirming a lot of Justices is seen as a 'win' by either side is not great in a country that used to pride itself an impartial judicial branch being a key part of the checks and balances that have made our Country great. Setting that aside, I haven't really looked into her record much and don't really have an opinion on her.

[bobbiemcgee]

The Lincoln Project guys just continue to grift.
Billionaires blowing some money. Who cares.

tRUMP is by far the king of the grifters:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/donald-trump-mar-a-lago-water

[Xville]

Lol....the "yeah but trump" response is my favorite in here. Tds is so rampant. I wonder if some of you dream of him, the obsession is so strong.

[bobbiemcgee]

Lol....the "yeah but trump" response is my favorite in here. Tds is so rampant. I wonder if some of you dream of him, the obsession is so strong.

Well, you screwed that up. You definitely have the TDS:

TDS
a.k.a. Trump Derangement Syndrome. The inability to find fault with Trump due to the fact that you voted for him in 2020.

BTW, he lost by 5 freaking + million votes. Get over it.

[Xville]

Well, you screwed that up. You definitely have the TDS:

TDS
a.k.a. Trump Derangement Syndrome. The inability to find fault with Trump due to the fact that you voted for him in 2020.

BTW, he lost by 5 freaking + million votes. Get over it.

The irony here is so thick lol. I didnt vote for him, I didnt vote for anyone. As I stated here numerous times, I'm done voting for the lesseer of two evils. I am over it, I'm not so sure you are.

[bobbiemcgee]

Clearly you don’t care what’s at stake so why come on here and hammer people? Go Away.

[Xville]

Clearly you don’t care what’s at stake so why come on here and hammer people? Go Away.

Nothing like getting called out on your bs and then moving those goal posts lol

For the record, I do care about "what's at stake," but I'm also done voting for the lesser of two evils whoever I deem that to be. I think it is high time our political system has a major overhaul, and until that either changes, or there is a choice between what I deem to be two competent individuals, I think my non-vote speaks just as much as whoever you voted for, and frankly you can go away if you think that is "not caring what's at stake."

[bobbiemcgee]

Well, maybe you can run yourself. You are guaranteed one vote. Ohhh....maybe not.

[JEHARDI]

As a follow-up to posts 8659 and 8660, here's a series of 4 very short clips showing "The statistical case against a Biden win":

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326298952774381575

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326299601574522880

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326300100742828033

https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1326300733998764033

Let me be perfectly clear: the Democrats absolutely committed massive fraud in this election. Did they commit enough fraud to actually overturn it? Obviously I don't know. However, Trump has every right to challenge the results and have them reviewed by the courts before conceding, if indeed he lost when all the dust has settled.

The turnout in WI was high across the state. There were counties that Trump won that had similar turnouts. By your definition, that must be fraud as well?
In regard to your claim of massive fraud, there is 0 evidence and the republicans involved in the voting process are not claiming it to be the case.
The cases the Trump team has filed are going nowhere, this will be over soon and the Republican Party will happily run from Trump.

[XU_Lou]

In regard to your claim of massive fraud, there is 0 evidence and the republicans involved in the voting process are not claiming it to be the case.

Maybe if you stopped consuming propaganda and sought out other sources of news, you may not be so certain of this.....


The cases the Trump team has filed are going nowhere, this will be over soon and the Republican Party will happily run from Trump.

Hmmm, sounds like you might be a just a little afraid???

[JEHARDI]

Maybe if you stopped consuming propaganda and sought out other sources of news, you may not be so certain of this.....



Hmmm, sounds like you might be a just a little afraid???

Everything I posted is factual, the clips you posted are propaganda and the WI stats were false but carry on with your charade. Listen to what the Sec of State in Ga is saying or the republican election officials in PA. Stay off Twitter, propaganda pup.

[xudash]

HAMMER

Dominion.

Wayne County, MI election worker Mellissa Carone blows the whistle. And it is UGLY, if it’s for real. Affidavits in from her and others.

[XU_Lou]

Everything I posted is factual, the clips you posted are propaganda and the WI stats were false but carry on with your charade. Listen to what the Sec of State in Ga is saying or the republican election officials in PA. Stay off Twitter, propaganda pup.

I think what we have here is what is now being referred to as a "bed wetter" among the ranks of Democrats...

[bobbiemcgee]

HAMMER

Dominion.

Wayne County, MI election worker Mellissa Carone blows the whistle. And it is UGLY, if it’s for real. Affidavits in from her and others.

NYT called every secy of state. No Fraud. Karl Rove might have to turn in his Fox meal card.

[boozehound]

HAMMER

Dominion.

Wayne County, MI election worker Mellissa Carone blows the whistle. And it is UGLY, if it’s for real. Affidavits in from her and others.

Huh? Isn't this just another completely unsubstantiated claim?

It's funny how none of these claims seem to have any evidence, thus far. You would think somebody would have taken a cell phone video or something. If you google search Melissa Carone Dominion, here are the first 5 things that pop up:

1. The link to steaming her appears on Lou Dobbs
2. A link to the filing from the Great Lakes Justice Center
3. A Reddit article under the heading 'conspiracy > comments'
4. A link to some guy's Parler page (Yay for Parler! Glad to see the newcomer making a push up the conspiracy theory ranks)
5. A link to something called 'Gab', which upon further investigation appears to be another right wing conspiracy theory forum

[bjf123]

NYT called every secy of state. No Fraud. Karl Rove might have to turn in his Fox meal card.

Does anyone really expect a Secy of State somewhere to walk up to the microphone and say “Well, you caught us. We had a major illegal vote generating operation going on.”? If there is any voter fraud going on, it’s 100% local and hidden from everyone, including the Secy of State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

I read the brief and affidavit. If it was true, it would be a cause for concern.
But it seemed to overlook 2 important things:
1 - If ballots were run through a machine a number of times, votes for either candidate could be inflated
2 - There were poll watchers from both parties in all the rooms. You would think someone would have noted a worker running them through more than once; not just an IT person.

[boozehound]

Does anyone really expect a Secy of State somewhere to walk up to the microphone and say “Well, you caught us. We had a major illegal vote generating operation going on.”? If there is any voter fraud going on, it’s 100% local and hidden from everyone, including the Secy of State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do agree with that. State officials will uphold the integrity of their voting process until clear evidence to the contrary has been presented. As they should, IMO.

I do think people are giving the Democrats a lot of credit on their ability to significantly manipulate elections results across multiple states in some sort of grass roots effort, while somehow managing to (thus far) not get caught. We are talking about A LOT of votes in many of these states. Almost 150K in Michigan and 50K in PA. I can't imagine that they were able to manipulate votes on that scale without one of two things happening:

1. Somebody taking a cell phone video / audio recording (or other clear evidence) of fraud - Let's remember here, the Repulicans have been issuing (non-specific) warnings of fraud since well before the election and asking people to be on the lookout. Even with all of that, nobody has a video or audio recording.

2. Some sort of memo surfacing detailing their instructions for widespread voter fraud. How did they disseminate this call to action widely enough to impact the election (but only in key states) but without it getting to a single 'wrong' person who would out them?

In my mind, this falls in the same bucket as the people who think Bush perpetrated 911 to give him a reason to invade Iraq. The amount of things that you would have to believe, without clear evidence, for this to be true is pretty staggering. You also have to believe that a group of people that you think to be generally extremely inept somehow came together to pull something like this off and didn't leave any evidence.

[Smails]

HAMMER

Dominion.

Wayne County, MI election worker Mellissa Carone blows the whistle. And it is UGLY, if it’s for real. Affidavits in from her and others.

I read the affidavit. It sounds more like a poorly run shit show than intentional fraud. I don't know how affidavit's are transcribed, but the grammar is absolutely atrocious.

[xubrew]

It’s one baseless claims after another after another after another. All claims turn out to be totally unproven, and a lot of them turn out to be totally DISproven.

Step back for a second and just ask yourselves who it is that you’re starting to sound like.

[paulxu]

It may be understandable that people who have been caught up in the cult-like beliefs that the president has pushed, resist the results of the election.
But many of the actions of government people seem to be almost childish.
Not releasing transition funds, no access to intelligence briefings, blocking access to State Department communication assistance, etc.
I'm waiting for some Republicans who recognize the need for a functioning government to come forward to assist.
It's starting to happen, but it needs to speed up.

[xubrew]

It may be understandable that people who have been caught up in the cult-like beliefs that the president has pushed, resist the results of the election.
But many of the actions of government people seem to be almost childish.
Not releasing transition funds, no access to intelligence briefings, blocking access to State Department communication assistance, etc.
I'm waiting for some Republicans who recognize the need for a functioning government to come forward to assist.
It's starting to happen, but it needs to speed up.

Agreed, Paul. This is the definition of party over country.

[bigdiggins]

It’s one baseless claims after another after another after another. All claims turn out to be totally unproven, and a lot of them turn out to be totally DISproven.

Step back for a second and just ask yourselves who it is that you’re starting to sound like.

Pelosi, Schiff, Schumer, Waters yammering on about Russia?

[xubrew]

[/B]
Pelosi, Schiff, Schumer, Waters yammering on about Russia?

yes!

[Muskie in dayton]

If there is one video to watch on the election results, this is it. Every American regardless of who they voted for (or if you voted at all), should watch this if you truly care about the ability of the peoples' will in elections:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztu5Y5obWPk

[paulxu]

This guy?

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/09/06/howie-carr-good-thing-shiva-isnt-taking-his-gop-primary-loss-personally/

Go and Nigel, what's the line on Trump pardoning himself, or resigning to have Pence do it, for federal crimes?

[boozehound]

This guy?

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/09/06/howie-carr-good-thing-shiva-isnt-taking-his-gop-primary-loss-personally/

Go and Nigel, what's the line on Trump pardoning himself, or resigning to have Pence do it, for federal crimes?

But, it's on YouTube! He's a Doctor!

[paulxu]

What could go wrong?

https://www.mediamatters.org/infowars/militia-leader-stewart-rhodes-says-he-has-men-stationed-outside-dc-ready-engage-violence

[Muskie in dayton]

What could go wrong?

https://www.mediamatters.org/infowars/militia-leader-stewart-rhodes-says-he-has-men-stationed-outside-dc-ready-engage-violence
People could believe this crap.

[paulxu]

I wonder why?

https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/1326194669852749827

[boozehound]

What could go wrong?

https://www.mediamatters.org/infowars/militia-leader-stewart-rhodes-says-he-has-men-stationed-outside-dc-ready-engage-violence

I think this is fake - didn't Alex Jones have to essentially admit (in Court while under oath) that his show was fabricated a while back?

I'm sure tons of people watch it thinking it's real - which is a real problem - but it seems fake to me. Also, I'll bet that guy's eye patch is covering a perfectly normal eye.

[paulxu]

Who knows if the armed guys stationed around Washington is real or not.
The idea for coming to DC for a demonstration seems real. The DC police are gearing up for it, although no permits have been issued by them or the park service for gatherings.
Hopefully it will all blow over and we won't have trouble in DC this weekend.

[Xville]

I know it's Fox news but still the fact is that a week ago, she is part of a very large rally screaming into a megaphone, and then a week later institutes a lockdown order.

The way politicians have acted on both sides is a good reason as to why the general public is very confused and angry:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/chicago-mayors-lockdown-orders-canceling-of-thanksgiving-draw-pushback

[xubrew]

Trump has dropped his lawsuit in Arizona. I guess he’s doing this because he believes the courts are rigged.

[GoMuskies]

Trump has dropped his lawsuit in Arizona. I guess he’s doing this because he believes the courts are rigged.

Hopefully that means my sportsbook money is coming!

[paulxu]

Trump has decided to support the rally tomorrow on his Twitter, indicating he may even stop by.
Meanwhile, all the far-right sites are pumping it up.
No permits from police or park for the rallies.

I'm really worried things could get ugly in DC tomorrow. Hope not.

[paulxu]

Hopefully that means my sportsbook money is coming!

You should collect. I have it on good authority that 306 is historic.

https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/803336493469204481?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1327332947129556992%7Ctwgr%5 E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2 020%2F11%2F13%2F1995572%2F-Woo-hoo-Georgia-is-Blue

[bobbiemcgee]

You should collect. I have it on good authority that 306 is historic.

https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/803336493469204481?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1327332947129556992%7Ctwgr%5 E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2 020%2F11%2F13%2F1995572%2F-Woo-hoo-Georgia-is-Blue

Landslide!!! According to tRUMP no less.

[xubrew]

I'd like for everyone to take about 8 minutes to watch this.

If you're on The Left and can't fully grasp why so many people dislike the Democratic Party, I think this hits on a big reason why, so I'd like you to watch it and take it in. If you're on The Right I'd like you to watch it, and if you agree with it to say, 'yeah, that's a big reason why.'

There are a couple of cheap shots at Trump in the first 60 seconds or so, but if you like him then try and get past that because once you do I think you'll agree with the point.

I was not expecting Trump to win in 2016, but once he did it immediately made sense to me why he did. Far too often to far too many people Democrats come off as self righteous elitists who are both unlikable and totally nuts. I don't consider myself to be exceptionally smart, and I will NEVER EVER run for public office, so when something like this appears to be so obvious to someone like me, I can't understand why the leadership on The Left remain oblivious to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgrZAPUvKyA

I'll add on something else that wasn't really in the video and that's, at least when it comes to the leadership, how disingenuous I find much of The Left to be. Their stated ideologies policies are in such contrast to their actions and behaviors. They say they're all about the lower class and working class, and to be fair some of their policies are in line with that, but at the same time their actions and behaviors seem to indicate that they don't care about anyone on any sort of a personal level who doesn't meet some sort of elitist threshold.

This has particularly hit a little close to home with me recently. You may have seen on the news recently how Ron DeSantis hired an Uber cab driver and sports blogger as a data analyst. Several left wing media outlets, including newspapers based in Florida and cable news have gone apeshit over this. On top of that ten members of the United States Congress from Florida pinned a letter to the governor demanding that the offer be rescinded. The person who was offered the job is actually a friend of mine. I'm not making that up. He was not offered a cabinet position, or even hired to be any sort of an advisor. He was hired because they saw and liked his ability to gather data and present it in spreadsheets that was easy to digest and understand. That's it. He was merely offered an entry level position that paid $40k a year to gather and sort data into spreadsheets. He is more than capable of doing that. I don't agree with his politics, and to be honest I don't agree with him on much of anything. I do think that he has spent so much time in the sports message board/twitter/blogging world that it has become his prism of reality. For most people it's a diversion, and they'll say and do crackpot things, and that's totally okay when it comes to sports. Steven A Smith is crazy, but that's okay, and if anything it actually makes it more fun. I do think he should change his approach when he's dealing with things that are not sports related, but he is more than capable of doing an entry level job that involves collecting and organizing data. He's not actually doing anything of any real consequence. But many on The Left are going apeshit. Because he drove an Uber. And that attitude, which they've had for the last couple of decades it seems, drives me out of my fucking mind. If someone is a cab driver, or a plumber, or a custodian, or a garbage man, or a cashier, or a frycook, or a carpenter, or any other number of jobs that would be classified as working class, that they're somehow don't meet that elitist threshold and are not capable of having the kinds of thoughts and ideas that are even worth listening to. If I'm really being completely honest, I'd rather see my plumber in office than the guy who is actually there representing me.

[paulxu]

Brew, I've got to disagree.
The basic premise of Mahr's video is that Democrats are somehow responsible for what the far left comes up with.
Defund the police is a great example; Dem leaders don't espouse or support that. But somehow they are responsible for it. Then when the far right comes up with its nonsense, why shouldn't Republicans be saddled with it?
Yet they get a pass. "There are good people on both sides."
The Stop the Count is from Roger Stone 4 years ago. Fermented on the web through Bannon and Breitbart, and resulting in millions not trusting our process.
And Republicans, in office, support it...including the president.

Your point carries "both sideism" way to far.
I haven't delved into your friends situation in Florida. If he has the ability to organize statistics, that shouldn't be anyone's problem if that's all he does.
But you wouldn't get on a commercial 747 and have a guy take the controls who never flew a plane.
There needs to be some requirement of proficiency to give a guy a job.

[XU_Lou]

Seriously, WTF is wrong with Democrats:

https://twitter.com/Journo_Christal/status/1327744687801839616

https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1327744558894026766

[xu82]

Seriously, WTF is wrong with Democrats:

https://twitter.com/Journo_Christal/status/1327744687801839616

https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1327744558894026766

Both extremes are very broken. Horribly broken.

[XU_Lou]

Both extremes are very broken. Horribly broken.

Show me violence from the right.....

[bobbiemcgee]

Seriously, WTF is wrong with Americans]

Fixed

[paulxu]

Idiots on the left don't define the Democratic party...any more than idiots on the right define the Republicans.

I would think most people would realize that.

[xu82]

Show me violence from the right.....

The violence is not entirely political, it is more socioeconomic, IMO. Opportunists. They are criminals. They belong in jail next to the lousy cops who shoot people in the back or kneel on people’s throats until they are dead.

Plenty of ugly on both sides. Not a big fan of threatening people’s residences while heavily armed. That’s just wrong. There is extreme left and extreme right. Being extremely in the middle is a tricky space. Impossible, I guess. I pray we return to the middle. Biden won because he was the less awful choice. Same reason Trump won.



.

[Muskie in dayton]

XUBrew, thank you. First thank you for being a consistent, common sense voice here. It's something I have in the past prided myself in, but admittedly have lost. My passion about the things you posted have made me the partisan that I have always despised. And ironically, in the opposite direction of where I began.

Also thank you for the Bill Mayer clip. Everything he said is spot on, and it made me remember my roots. The underlying philosophy to my political leanings has been "live and let live". I grew up a Democrat for this reason, and voted primarily Democrat. I have found that the Democratic party has fallen so far from this that I have completely gravitated to the other side. It's not where I want to be, but where I have to be. The Democrats have lost their way, and whether they realize or want to admit it, they have become exactly what they hate. They better do some "exfoliation of that infected surface layer".

Finally, thank you for the note about Kyle Lamb. I don't know if you've seen my postings on the COVID-19 thread, but I am fiercely defending him against the attackers. I caught on to his work months ago and have been impressed. What happened to him is despicable. Many people owe him an apology (and with an good attorney, maybe more!). For those on this board who piled on... you know who you are... you too owe an apology. I hope you take some time to exercise the critical thinking skills we were taught at X, and re-evaluate. XUBrew when you talk to Kyle next, let him know to keep doing what he does, and don't let the haters cancel him. They are hating for a reason - because he is damn good, and that scares the shit out of them.

[tacopizza885]

The "True Lord" would be ashamed, and embarrassed, as is the rest of the world.

https://youtu.be/TSpdgev-e_4

]
https://youtu.be/Y06qvqAGpP8

[bjf123]

While I disagree with Bill Maher politically, he’s right on a lot of what he says, and the Democratic leadership doesn’t see it. The Presidential election wasn’t a referendum on the policies of the Republicans vs. the Democrats. It was purely about Trump’s brash, over the top, personality, and his propensity to lie at the drop of a hat. That’s why he lost. But, it it were truly about Left vs. Right policies, the Left would have picked up seats in the House and taken control of the Senate. The Congresswomen from VI was correct when she said “If we are classifying Tuesday as a success, we will get fucking torn apart again in 2022.” If history is any indicator, the Republicans will regain control of the House in 2022 and keep or take back the Senate.

Maher’s point about the lack of common sense is spot on. The cancel culture and hyper sensitivity, label everyone who disagrees as an “ist” of some kind does not play well in most of America once you get away from the Northeast and West Coast.

One of his best quotes was how the Left thinks “silence is violence but looting is not.” It would have helped the Left a great deal if the Democratic mayors had quickly put a stop to the violence and looting that was happening in their cities. Instead, I think they were afraid of the cancel culture coming after them, so they let it go.

Both parties are guilty of the mindset that you have to agree 100% with everything they say and despise 100% of everything the other party says. That plays well to your base, but most of the country doesn’t think that way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

Brew, I've got to disagree.
The basic premise of Mahr's video is that Democrats are somehow responsible for what the far left comes up with.
Defund the police is a great example; Dem leaders don't espouse or support that. But somehow they are responsible for it. Then when the far right comes up with its nonsense, why shouldn't Republicans be saddled with it?
Yet they get a pass. "There are good people on both sides."
The Stop the Count is from Roger Stone 4 years ago. Fermented on the web through Bannon and Breitbart, and resulting in millions not trusting our process.
And Republicans, in office, support it...including the president.

Your point carries "both sideism" way to far.
I haven't delved into your friends situation in Florida. If he has the ability to organize statistics, that shouldn't be anyone's problem if that's all he does.
But you wouldn't get on a commercial 747 and have a guy take the controls who never flew a plane.
There needs to be some requirement of proficiency to give a guy a job.

Paul, you are irretrievably broken.

Kamala Harris is "Leadership". She helped fund and sent out big support through Social Media about a Money Pool that was organized and used to bail out arrested rioters in Minneapolis and other cities like Cleveland. Now, in Cleveland, an I understand Minneapolis also, those "bailed out" aren't showing up for their scheduled hearings and cannot be found. I suppose they have gone back either into their holes or have moved on to the next disturbance like the trash that happened in DC last night. There were Democrat Candidates in the races for Portland Mayor, who are current City Council members, and also City Council people in Minneapolis who have called for Police defunding. Both New York City and Los Angeles, with Democrat mayors have actually cut the police budget and laid off plainclothes policemen. I would say that they are in a Government position of power and are "leaders". The "National leadership" also meets with and props up felons like Jacob Blake who molested women then tried to stab a police officer. But, OHHHHH, what an example of police brutality!!!! Meanwhile, they don't say a damn thing to condemn the riots in Portland, Philly, DC and other places. Nor do they call out the BLM Leadership who are admitted Marxists, from their own profiles.

Don't be so damn sanctimonious to not recognize that the "Leadership" is not directly complicit. Remember, that Antifa is "Just an Idea", per your ultimate "Leader".

[bobbiemcgee]

You have nutjobs on both sides. Do you support the tRUMP endorsed Proud Boys? How about your two new tRUMP endorsed congresswomen Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert who support satanic rituals thru Qanon and want to invade pizza parlors? Did you support the Nazi's at Charlottesville? Fine people that killed a young woman? ? Funny how you only point out examples from the left to support you far right views. Usual hot garbage.

[STL_XUfan]

This is some really scary shit:

https://twitter.com/antifashgordon/status/1325285853007142913?s=21

I hope this is all just stupid internet tough guy b.s., but I’m afraid at some point one of these deranged idiots is going to follow through on these threats.

[XU_Lou]

This is some really scary shit:

https://twitter.com/antifashgordon/status/1325285853007142913?s=21

I hope this is all just stupid internet tough guy b.s., but I’m afraid at some point one of these deranged idiots is going to follow through on these threats.

LOL - so 6 months of riots, murders, cop killings, assaults, looting and intimidation by Antifa and BLM didn't scare you?

[bobbiemcgee]

This is some really scary shit:

https://twitter.com/antifashgordon/status/1325285853007142913?s=21

I hope this is all just stupid internet tough guy b.s., but I’m afraid at some point one of these deranged idiots is going to follow through on these threats.

Yep. tRump's blackshirts.

[Strange Brew]

This is some really scary shit:

https://twitter.com/antifashgordon/status/1325285853007142913?s=21

I hope this is all just stupid internet tough guy b.s., but I’m afraid at some point one of these deranged idiots is going to follow through on these threats.

Multiple people assaulted and harassed in DC by BLM and Antifa this weekend. A Trump supporter shot and killed in Denver a few weeks ago and now you’re paying attention!