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boozehound
10-29-2020, 10:30 AM
Huh, interesting. The reason I’ve gravitated toward the Republican Party is because the Democrats have become completely intolerant of other beliefs. There’s also an element of anti-gay and anti-Semitic. Maybe I need some more mainstream media brainwashing.

Can you help me understand this in more detail?

I'm very interested in how the Republican Party is less 'anti-gay' than the Democratic party. I'll give you an example: Many folks on the (mostly religious) right made a hero out of the Clerk of Courts in Kentucky who wouldn't issue marriage licences to gay couples. This wasn't a private business refusing to bake a gay wedding cake, but rather a government employee refusing to perform the duties of their office.

I assume the anti-Semitic comment is rooted in the Democrats' stance on Israel, which I do understand.

GoMuskies
10-29-2020, 10:51 AM
There are a number of movements on the left side (whether you want to attribute them to the Democrats or not) that are anti-Semitic (or anti-Semitic adjacent to use some of the fun terms). The Women's March and BLM both have leaders that have been known to dabble in anti-Semitism. There's also a growing strain of critical race theory/intersectionalism on the left (again, not necessarily tied to the party itself) that sees everything through the lens of race and oppression. And those folks love to discriminate based on race/gender. As a matter of fact, there's a whole movement in California to change the state constitution to explicitly ALLOW discrimination based on sex and gender. It's like bizarro 1962 out there these days.

GoMuskies
10-29-2020, 10:54 AM
Note that there's also ENORMOUS opposition on the left to Trump's executive order banning certain types of diversity and inclusion training. Here is the text of the order. Please tell me the part of this that you have a problem with.

PRESIDENT TRUMP ISSUES EXECUTIVE ORDER 13950 TO COMBAT RACE AND SEX STEREOTYPING/ SCAPEGOATING, AND IMPOSES NEW REQUIREMENTS ON GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS
On September 22, 2020, President Trump issued Executive Order 13950, “on Combating Race and Sex Stereotyping,” prohibiting the federal government, companies with federal contracts, and recipients of federal grants from promoting “race or sex stereotyping or scapegoating” by, among other things, conducting training that includes the following “divisive concepts”:
1. One race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex;
2. An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously;
3. An individual should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment solely or partly because of his or her race or sex;
4. Members of one race or sex cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race or sex;
5. An individual’s moral character is necessarily determined by his or her race or sex;
6. An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex;
7. Any individual should feel discomfort guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race or sex; or
8. Meritocracy or traits such as hard work ethic are racist or sexist, or were created by a particular race to oppress another race.

Smails
10-29-2020, 11:45 AM
Can you help me understand this in more detail?

I'm very interested in how the Republican Party is less 'anti-gay' than the Democratic party. .

I don't think that anyone is saying the Republicans are more pro-gay than Dems. Just because one party is tends to be a louder advocate for gay rights, doesn't make the other party homophobic. Which is how republicans are often painted. It's like saying the democrats are anti-military because they support less spending..which is also complete shit

xuwillie
10-29-2020, 11:52 AM
Same with all republicans not caring about the environment. These arguments are so outdated but many liberals still fall for this

paulxu
10-29-2020, 12:29 PM
Shorter Tucker Carlson: the dog ate my homework.

xubrew
10-29-2020, 12:33 PM
Same with all republicans not caring about the environment. These arguments are so outdated but many liberals still fall for this

Just an observation of mine (not calling xuwillie out at all. It just made me think of something)....

Anyone ever notice that your liberal tree hugger save the whales and save the Earth friends are complete slobs? You go into their house and it looks like a tornado hit it.

On the flip side, your conservative friends that think carbon omissions and large factory food production is doing nothing to harm the environment and look at the EPA as being complete nonsense are neat freaks? Their houses are spotlessly clean!

That has always struck me as ironic.

boozehound
10-29-2020, 12:52 PM
I don't think that anyone is saying the Republicans are more pro-gay than Dems. Just because one party is tends to be a louder advocate for gay rights, doesn't make the other party homophobic. Which is how republicans are often painted. It's like saying the democrats are anti-military because they support less spending..which is also complete shit


Huh, interesting. The reason I’ve gravitated toward the Republican Party is because the Democrats have become completely intolerant of other beliefs. There’s also an element of anti-gay and anti-Semitic. Maybe I need some more mainstream media brainwashing.

I wouldn't think so, but this was the quote I was responding to and it certainly seemed to be saying just that. Which is why I asked for clarification. There seemed to be a direct contract and some cause / effect implication.

While many Republicans aren't anti-gay, there certainly seems to be a large group (generally religiously motivated) that has been very keen on, for example, denying gays the right to marry. Obviously there are groups within the liberal umbrella that also think pretty unfavorably of gays, however it hasn't been a legislative agenda for any significant part of the Democratic party as a mainstream entity.

bjf123
10-29-2020, 01:15 PM
While many Republicans aren't anti-gay, there certainly seems to be a large group (generally religiously motivated) that has been very keen on, for example, denying gays the right to marry.

Is it really a large group, or does it just seem that way because of how the media portrays it? Most of my friends are on the conservative side of the aisle. Many of them are pretty religious, too, attending their respective churches on a consistent basis. None of them are anti gay or oppose same sex marriage. Granted, that’s not a scientifically valid sample. Still, I really don’t think most people, even us evil Republicans, care about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

STL_XUfan
10-29-2020, 01:30 PM
Is it really a large group, or does it just seem that way because of how the media portrays it? Most of my friends are on the conservative side of the aisle. Many of them are pretty religious, too, attending their respective churches on a consistent basis. None of them are anti gay or oppose same sex marriage. Granted, that’s not a scientifically valid sample. Still, I really don’t think most people, even us evil Republicans, care about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean in 2004 61% of Ohio opposed gay marriage and voted to make it unconstitutional. (which obviously contained a number of Democrats too since the presidential election went 50-48 to Bush)

Objectively speaking, it is quite amazing how quickly the tide has turned on the issue.

X-band '01
10-29-2020, 01:30 PM
Just an observation of mine (not calling xuwillie out at all. It just made me think of something)....

Anyone ever notice that your liberal tree hugger save the whales and save the Earth friends are complete slobs? You go into their house and it looks like a tornado hit it.

On the flip side, your conservative friends that think carbon omissions and large factory food production is doing nothing to harm the environment and look at the EPA as being complete nonsense are neat freaks? Their houses are spotlessly clean!

That has always struck me as ironic.

Snipe's been saying that for years.

And where the hell is Snipe these days?

paulxu
10-29-2020, 01:32 PM
Is it really a large group, or does it just seem that way because of how the media portrays it? Most of my friends are on the conservative side of the aisle. Many of them are pretty religious, too, attending their respective churches on a consistent basis. None of them are anti gay or oppose same sex marriage. Granted, that’s not a scientifically valid sample. Still, I really don’t think most people, even us evil Republicans, care about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you are probably correct. Unfortunately where I live, the anti-gay bias is still very strong, and often tied to religion.
While I suspect if you did a survey of Republicans across the country the results would mirror your experience...most wouldn't have a problem with gay marriage. It doesn't help however, that the continuing platform of the party seems to be a reach out to hold the anti-gay groups.


GOP Platform: “Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman … We do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal.”

GoMuskies
10-29-2020, 01:39 PM
I suspect an outsize portion of the Democratic Party membership in South Carolina also has an anti-gay bias.

paulxu
10-29-2020, 02:04 PM
It would definitely be a minority of the party here. The old Dems who thought that way became Republicans in 1964.

xubrew
10-29-2020, 02:15 PM
Snipe's been saying that for years.

And where the hell is Snipe these days?

He should be running for office! Him not doing so is keeping America from reaching its true potential!!

GoMuskies
10-29-2020, 02:24 PM
It would definitely be a minority of the party here. The old Dems who thought that way became Republicans in 1964.

I'm thinking of religious black folks, which there a lot of in South Carolina.

paulxu
10-29-2020, 03:28 PM
Good point. You're probably right but they mostly vote D.

Muskie in dayton
10-29-2020, 05:57 PM
Can you help me understand this in more detail?

I'm very interested in how the Republican Party is less 'anti-gay' than the Democratic party. I'll give you an example: Many folks on the (mostly religious) right made a hero out of the Clerk of Courts in Kentucky who wouldn't issue marriage licences to gay couples. This wasn't a private business refusing to bake a gay wedding cake, but rather a government employee refusing to perform the duties of their office.

I assume the anti-Semitic comment is rooted in the Democrats' stance on Israel, which I do understand.
Sorry it's taken me a while - been busy. But it looks like others responded and covered most of what I would have said. What BJF123 said mirrors my personal experience. I also know some "old school" Dems that are less tolerant. There's also some anti-gay rhetoric that comes out in footage I've seen of the BLM/Antifa riots.

Regarding the Dems anti-Semitism, look what is going on in New York - especially to the Orthodox Jews. Cuomo is a disgusting person.

Muskie in dayton
10-29-2020, 05:59 PM
Snipe's been saying that for years.

And where the hell is Snipe these days?

You know, I've never seen Snipe and Hunter Biden in the same place at the same time...

GoMuskies
10-29-2020, 06:00 PM
Snipe.

Now we've said his name three times.

MADXSTER
10-29-2020, 09:01 PM
I'm thinking Snipe might be in the back of someone's trunk.

xu82
10-29-2020, 09:13 PM
I'm thinking Snipe might be in the back of someone's trunk.

I’m slightly more concerned he is “unavailable” due to the contents found in “The Trunk of Snipe”.

Be well and come entertain us, Sir Snipe!

tacopizza885
10-29-2020, 10:12 PM
You know, I've never seen Snipe and Hunter Biden in the same place at the same time...

Speaking of...

Has anyone else been following the Glenn Greenwald departure from The Intercept today? Wow! Media Wars Gone Wild! (btw, Greenwald brought us the Edward Snowden info, which is his most noted achievement. He also co-founded The Intercept)


Greenwald's Claims (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/emails-with-intercept-editors-showing)


Main Stream Media Response (NBC News) (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387)


The Intercept's Response (https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-the-intercept/)


Every day, things get more interesting.

paulxu
10-30-2020, 11:50 AM
If you are interested in Greenwald, you might want to review this:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/10/30/glenn-greenwalds-self-hack-i-could-go-on-and-on/

On an unrelated note, I wonder why so many Republican state parties are working so hard in the courts to restrict voting.

GoMuskies
10-30-2020, 01:15 PM
There's a good chance, of the candidates available, THIS is the best guy to lead our country. Sigh.

https://twitter.com/EddieZipperer/status/1322218253247303681?s=20

XU 87
10-30-2020, 02:38 PM
If you are interested in Greenwald, you might want to review this:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/10/30/glenn-greenwalds-self-hack-i-could-go-on-and-on/

On an unrelated note, I wonder why so many Republican state parties are working so hard in the courts to restrict voting.

I have a similar question- Why are the democrats working so hard in the courts to allow fraudulent voting?

Smails
10-30-2020, 02:49 PM
There's a good chance, of the candidates available, THIS is the best guy to lead our country. Sigh.

https://twitter.com/EddieZipperer/status/1322218253247303681?s=20

At the very least, we'll continue to have some incredible soundbites coming out of the White House for the next 4 years...whoever wins. So we have that going for us..which is nice

X-man
10-30-2020, 02:58 PM
I have a similar question- Why are the democrats working so hard in the courts to allow fraudulent voting?

Explain how you know it's "fraudulent". That's the great mystery part of the Republican opposition to accommodating voting in the year of covid. Of course Trump's position is different; oppose because if you don't, Republicans will never win...not that it's fraudulent.

paulxu
10-30-2020, 03:00 PM
I have a similar question- Why are the democrats working so hard in the courts to allow fraudulent voting?

They working to have the voters' votes counted...admittedly a novel concept.

(the republicans have almost succeeded in having ballots casts by overseas troops who send it before election day, and the hamstrung by DeJoy postal service not get them there on time, from being counted. Makes you proud, doesn't it.)

Juice
10-30-2020, 03:32 PM
Explain how you know it's "fraudulent". That's the great mystery part of the Republican opposition to accommodating voting in the year of covid. Of course Trump's position is different; oppose because if you don't, Republicans will never win...not that it's fraudulent.

Or maybe votes cast after election day aren't fraudulent but simply not valid because they're late. People have been able to vote early for weeks, vote by mail, vote absentee, etc., how the hell is someone incapable of voting at this point by election day?

XU 87
10-30-2020, 03:55 PM
They working to have the voters' votes counted...admittedly a novel concept.

(the republicans have almost succeeded in having ballots casts by overseas troops who send it before election day, and the hamstrung by DeJoy postal service not get them there on time, from being counted. Makes you proud, doesn't it.)

My brother-in-law went to the polls and voted early today. When he was finished, a young male approached him and asked, "Hey, do you want your vote to count three times?", and then pulled something out of his pocket to hand to my brother-in-law. He then asked my brother-in-law, "Wait, did you vote democrat?" When my brother-in-law didn't answer and just looked at the guy, the guy then walked away.

Makes you proud doesn't it? But to those like you on the far left, "The end justifies the means."

And please put your second paragraph in readable English and grammar. But it sounds like you're claiming the republicans tried to block overseas troops' ballots, which makes zero sense to me since the troops vote overwhelmingly republican.

XU 87
10-30-2020, 03:58 PM
Explain how you know it's "fraudulent". That's the great mystery part of the Republican opposition to accommodating voting in the year of covid. Of courseTrump's position is different; oppose because if you don't, Republicans will never win...not that it's fraudulent.

What a silly statement. Are you saying there's no fraudulent voting out there? Are you arguing that there should be no protections against fraudulent voting? I realize you like fraudulent voting because it apparently helps elect left wingers, but it does exist.

And see my post above. if you would like a specific example.

Here are some more:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf

X-man
10-30-2020, 04:31 PM
Or maybe votes cast after election day aren't fraudulent but simply not valid because they're late. People have been able to vote early for weeks, vote by mail, vote absentee, etc., how the hell is someone incapable of voting at this point by election day?

No one is asking that votes cast "after election day" be counted. So if you are looking for an example of "fraudulent", look at what you just said.

X-man
10-30-2020, 04:35 PM
What a silly statement. Are you saying there's no fraudulent voting out there? Are you arguing that there should be no protections against fraudulent voting? I realize you like fraudulent voting because it apparently helps elect left wingers, but it does exist.

And see my post above. if you would like a specific example.

Here are some more:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf

Silly (or bonehead) is your statement that Democrats want to count fraudulent votes. You know that is not true, just as you surely know (if you are being honest to yourself) that the argument that allowing votes postmarked before election day (but arriving late) or allowing votes in ballot boxes in multiple sites does not mean that they are fraudulent.

Strange Brew
10-30-2020, 05:36 PM
Brett Favre has endorsed Trump. He will hold a press conference on Sun to unretire his endorsement. He then has another presser scheduled for Tues morning....

STL_XUfan
10-30-2020, 08:07 PM
Brett Favre has endorsed Trump. He will hold a press conference on Sun to unretire his endorsement. He then has another presser scheduled for Tues morning....

Is the dick pic released before or after the 2nd presser?

STL_XUfan
10-30-2020, 08:09 PM
My brother-in-law went to the polls and voted early today. When he was finished, a young male approached him and asked, "Hey, do you want your vote to count three times?", and then pulled something out of his pocket to hand to my brother-in-law. He then asked my brother-in-law, "Wait, did you vote democrat?" When my brother-in-law didn't answer and just looked at the guy, the guy then walked away.

Makes you proud doesn't it? But to those like you on the far left, "The end justifies the means."



I heard the same thing at a liberal coffee shop this morning....

paulxu
10-30-2020, 08:12 PM
Lou Dobbs:


in another effort to suppress voters the radical Dem Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi says now you should show up to physically vote on Tuesday,

Those horrible Dems, suppressing the vote by showing up at the polls...and voting! Horrors.

bobbiemcgee
10-30-2020, 09:59 PM
Is the dick pic released before or after the 2nd presser?

I would concede trump will carry sumrall, mississippi

xubrew
10-31-2020, 11:58 AM
My brother-in-law went to the polls and voted early today. When he was finished, a young male approached him and asked, "Hey, do you want your vote to count three times?", and then pulled something out of his pocket to hand to my brother-in-law. He then asked my brother-in-law, "Wait, did you vote democrat?" When my brother-in-law didn't answer and just looked at the guy, the guy then walked away.

Makes you proud doesn't it? But to those like you on the far left, "The end justifies the means."

And please put your second paragraph in readable English and grammar. But it sounds like you're claiming the republicans tried to block overseas troops' ballots, which makes zero sense to me since the troops vote overwhelmingly republican.

If true, then this is simply too stupid to work, which is what makes it so hard to believe. So basically the plan is equivalent to a 15 year old who’s camped out in front of a liquor store and approaching complete strangers to see if they’ll buy him booze. GREAT PLAN!! You’ve got about 10 mins before you’re shooed away and the cops are called. This is so moronic, that I personally would have had to know more. I would have probably pretended to go along with it for a second just to see exactly what his plan was.

I mean, c’mon. Did this REALLY happen?? I know we are talking about the fringe left, but still...

paulxu
10-31-2020, 01:45 PM
That guy was in my voting line too!
He wanted to know if I'd heard about the pedophilia ring that Hillary was running in the basement of a DC pizza parlor.

Also...RIP the original James Bond.

xubrew
10-31-2020, 03:20 PM
So, in Texas today....

https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-camp-cancels-austin-texas-event-after-pro-trump-ambush-on-campaign-bus?source=articles&via=rss?soc_src=newsroom&soc_trk=com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard&.tsrc=newsroom

I thought these kinds of bullshit tactics were only used by the woke shitheads who yell at people in restaurants and what not. I guess not.

Voter suppression and voter intimidation seem to be far more the from the playbook of Trump supporters than anyone else. It’s a far bigger and far more real threat to the integrity of the election than the voter fraud they’re accusing the left of. That falls somewhere between completely exaggerated and completely made up.

Our country is being overrun by shitheads.

paulxu
10-31-2020, 03:39 PM
Texas secretary of state authorized drive through voting in the primary.
It has been continued in the general election.
So, Texas republicans are going to court to disallow 100,000 votes cast that way so far.

How can anyone be a good republican and be proud of this sort of activity to prevent counting peoples' votes.

xubrew
10-31-2020, 04:02 PM
Texas secretary of state authorized drive through voting in the primary.
It has been continued in the general election.
So, Texas republicans are going to court to disallow 100,000 votes cast that way so far.

How can anyone be a good republican and be proud of this sort of activity to prevent counting peoples' votes.

It's an attempt at voter suppression.

I totally understand wanting to protect the integrity of the elections. Everyone should want a free and fair election. But people who are concerned about voter fraud (which exists, but not at the rampant level that many are saying that it does), but are not concerned about attempts to suppress the vote or to intimidate voters, are hypocrites. Pure and simple.

paulxu
10-31-2020, 04:08 PM
Voter suppression defined:

Texas allow 1 drop box per county to deposit mail in ballots

Loving County Tx: population 169

Harris County Tx: population 4, 713,325

bjf123
10-31-2020, 06:13 PM
Voter suppression defined:

Texas allow 1 drop box per county to deposit mail in ballots

Loving County Tx: population 169

Harris County Tx: population 4, 713,325

That is pretty stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

X-man
11-01-2020, 06:37 AM
Voter suppression defined:

Texas allow 1 drop box per county to deposit mail in ballots

Loving County Tx: population 169

Harris County Tx: population 4, 713,325

The area differences ought to also be illuminating.

bigdiggins
11-01-2020, 07:53 AM
Voter suppression defined:

Texas allow 1 drop box per county to deposit mail in ballots

Loving County Tx: population 169

Harris County Tx: population 4, 713,325

Well that mean Harris County also has approximately 4,713,325 mailboxes (+businesses outgoing mail, +the post offices, etc) that people could have mailed in their absentee ballots. Or they could do drive through voting, or go to the polls.

Voter suppression is not the lack of 4,713,325 options for 4,713,325 people.

xubrew
11-01-2020, 09:23 AM
Well that mean Harris County also has approximately 4,713,325 mailboxes (+businesses outgoing mail, +the post offices, etc) that people could have mailed in their absentee ballots. Or they could do drive through voting, or go to the polls.

Voter suppression is not the lack of 4,713,325 options for 4,713,325 people.

Agreed. So, why is there an outcry against people being able to choose to vote by mail? Why are certain republicans going to court trying to get drive thru votes tossed out?

People who do not feel that voter suppression exists are almost undoubtedly people who's votes are not being suppressed. Chances are they can vote in their precinct on Election Day without any real complications, annoyances, or inconveniences. The problem is for people who have to routinely wait more than four hours to vote because there aren't enough polling places to meet their demands. Or, they have to burn a vacation day from work because it is an all day affair, if they can even get the day off of work, which not all of them can. In the place where I previously lived, I knew multiple people who arranged to leave work an hour early so they could go vote. By 10am, the networks were already projecting the winners. They were still in the line. So...they just went home. For all practical purposes, their votes were suppressed. If that does not routinely happen to you, then realize that it does routinely happen to certain demographics of people in this country. So, yes. They would rather vote by mail, or vote early, or do drive through voting. The fact that there is a lot more of that in this election than their has been before is a good thing, but it's still not good enough, and it also still appears that there are certain forces that are trying to limit it.

bigdiggins
11-01-2020, 09:32 AM
Agreed. So, why is there an outcry against people being able to choose to vote by mail? Why are certain republicans going to court trying to get drive thru votes tossed out?

People who do not feel that voter suppression exists are almost undoubtedly people who's votes are not being suppressed. Chances are they can vote in their precinct on Election Day without any real complications, annoyances, or inconveniences. The problem is for people who have to routinely wait more than four hours to vote because there aren't enough polling places to meet their demands. Or, they have to burn a vacation day from work because it is an all day affair, if they can even get the day off of work, which not all of them can. In the place where I previously lived, I knew multiple people who arranged to leave work an hour early so they could go vote. By 10am, the networks were already projecting the winners. They were still in the line. So...they just went home. For all practical purposes, their votes were suppressed. If that does not routinely happen to you, then realize that it does routinely happen to certain demographics of people in this country. So, yes. They would rather vote by mail, or vote early, or do drive through voting. The fact that there is a lot more of that in this election than their has been before is a good thing, but it's still not good enough, and it also still appears that there are certain forces that are trying to limit it.

My only issue with vote by mail was states that were sending out absentee/mail-in ballots that weren't requested based on voter registrations. If someone wants to vote absentee, it is pretty easy to get an absentee ballot.

bigdiggins
11-01-2020, 09:34 AM
Agreed. So, why is there an outcry against people being able to choose to vote by mail? Why are certain republicans going to court trying to get drive thru votes tossed out?

People who do not feel that voter suppression exists are almost undoubtedly people who's votes are not being suppressed. Chances are they can vote in their precinct on Election Day without any real complications, annoyances, or inconveniences. The problem is for people who have to routinely wait more than four hours to vote because there aren't enough polling places to meet their demands. Or, they have to burn a vacation day from work because it is an all day affair, if they can even get the day off of work, which not all of them can. In the place where I previously lived, I knew multiple people who arranged to leave work an hour early so they could go vote. By 10am, the networks were already projecting the winners. They were still in the line. So...they just went home. For all practical purposes, their votes were suppressed. If that does not routinely happen to you, then realize that it does routinely happen to certain demographics of people in this country. So, yes. They would rather vote by mail, or vote early, or do drive through voting. The fact that there is a lot more of that in this election than their has been before is a good thing, but it's still not good enough, and it also still appears that there are certain forces that are trying to limit it.

There are a lot of places you could project the winner on Oct 1 and be 95% accurate.:wink:

XU 87
11-01-2020, 09:37 AM
If true, then this is simply too stupid to work, which is what makes it so hard to believe. So basically the plan is equivalent to a 15 year old who’s camped out in front of a liquor store and approaching complete strangers to see if they’ll buy him booze. GREAT PLAN!! You’ve got about 10 mins before you’re shooed away and the cops are called. This is so moronic, that I personally would have had to know more. I would have probably pretended to go along with it for a second just to see exactly what his plan was.

I mean, c’mon. Did this REALLY happen?? I know we are talking about the fringe left, but still...

It happened. It was actually the lead story on one of the local news stations. But your response to this incident is interesting. You aren't concerned- you just make fun of it. The question I have- how many people tripled their vote at this polling place?

xubrew
11-01-2020, 09:40 AM
There are a lot of places you could project the winner on Oct 1 and be 95% accurate.:wink:

Daylight savings time caused me to confuse AM and PM.

STL_XUfan
11-01-2020, 09:44 AM
It happened. It was actually the lead story on one of the local news stations. But your response to this incident is interesting. You aren't concerned- you just make fun of it. The question I have- how many people tripled their vote at this polling place?

Could we get a link to the story or at least name the local news station.

xubrew
11-01-2020, 10:28 AM
It happened. It was actually the lead story on one of the local news stations. But your response to this incident is interesting. You aren't concerned- you just make fun of it. The question I have- how many people tripled their vote at this polling place?

My guess would be zero.

And yes, to be fair, I find it more astonishing than concerning. It actually is easy for me to believe that a guy selling snake oil would try going up to a stranger, ask if they wanted their vote to count triple, then try and sell them something to fill out and then just take off with their money. As far as actually getting peoples' votes to count triple, how would that even work? It seems like someone who is actually working at the polling place would have to be in on it, and even if they did want to stack the votes one way or another I have a hard time believing this is how they'd go about it. A guy just approaching random strangers outside?? How would he even know who to approach?? How would he know that the people he approached voted for the candidates that he wanted to stack it for??

And say someone says "Okay, I want it to count trilple." THEN WHAT?? He gives them two more ballots outside the polling place?? Do they then walk right back in with two ballots with some sort of an explanation as to A) why they have two, and B) why they received them before coming into the building?? I mean, if that's their plan, then why approach anyone? Why not just fill out the blank ballots themselves??

It just seems ridiculous. There are ways to cheat the election. I don not believe this is one of them.

paulxu
11-01-2020, 10:32 AM
I would guess he's confused about this tactic to encourage more voting in our elections. (Not to have fraudulent ballots cast)

https://www.vote-tripling.org/

xubrew
11-01-2020, 10:48 AM
I would guess he's confused about this tactic to encourage more voting in our elections. (Not to have fraudulent ballots cast)

https://www.vote-tripling.org/

I suppose this is another possible explanation.

XU 87
11-01-2020, 11:02 AM
Could we get a link to the story or at least name the local news station.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/double-voting-concerns-on-final-day-of-early-voting

xubrew
11-01-2020, 11:19 AM
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/double-voting-concerns-on-final-day-of-early-voting

Okay, being very familiar with that particular part of Atlanta, I’m rather comfortable with guessing this was just some guy looking to con people for a handout and not someone who was actually able to pull off triple voting. If you’ve ever been to the Vatican, this is akin to the com artists outside asking people if they want to meet the pope, or if they want to buy a pass that allows them to skip all the lines. He definitely did the right thing reporting it, but I SERIOUSLY doubt this was some coordinated inside effort.

Masterofreality
11-01-2020, 11:22 AM
Speaking of...

Has anyone else been following the Glenn Greenwald departure from The Intercept today? Wow! Media Wars Gone Wild! (btw, Greenwald brought us the Edward Snowden info, which is his most noted achievement. He also co-founded The Intercept)


Greenwald's Claims (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/emails-with-intercept-editors-showing)


Main Stream Media Response (NBC News) (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387)


The Intercept's Response (https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-the-intercept/)


Every day, things get more interesting.

This Greenwald saga is the microcosm for everything that is wrong with the Main Stream media too.

The "cool kids" from woke college journalism schools are taking over the palace, and making it a veritable Garbage Dump.

Another example of a quality journalist being cancelled is Bari Weiss, former NYT editor who was summarily run out of the Times for daring to question this ridiculous movement. Anyone on Twitter should follow Weiss and Greenwald. It's an eye opener, and horrible for our "free" press.

Masterofreality
11-01-2020, 11:25 AM
Okay, being very familiar with that particular part of Atlanta, I’m rather comfortable with guessing this was just some guy looking to con people for a handout and not someone who was actually able to pull off triple voting. If you’ve ever been to the Vatican, this is akin to the com artists outside asking people if they want to meet the pope, or if they want to buy a pass that allows them to skip all the lines. He definitely did the right thing reporting it, but I SERIOUSLY doubt this was some coordinated inside effort.

Pretty much ANY part of downtown Atlanta. No body goes down there anymore- except for Falcons games.

What a joke of a city.

paulxu
11-01-2020, 12:09 PM
Okay, being very familiar with that particular part of Atlanta, I’m rather comfortable with guessing this was just some guy looking to con people for a handout and not someone who was actually able to pull off triple voting. If you’ve ever been to the Vatican, this is akin to the com artists outside asking people if they want to meet the pope, or if they want to buy a pass that allows them to skip all the lines. He definitely did the right thing reporting it, but I SERIOUSLY doubt this was some coordinated inside effort.

Sounds to me very much like that get out the vote effort and a lot of misunderstanding.

GoMuskies
11-01-2020, 12:33 PM
I think Bari Weiss may be the most hated person on Twitter. It's weird.

X-band '01
11-01-2020, 01:11 PM
Pretty much ANY part of downtown Atlanta. No body goes down there anymore- except for Falcons games.

What a joke of a city.

Hey now, give the Atlanta United a little love. Or whatever they call their MLS team.

noteggs
11-01-2020, 01:48 PM
So, in Texas today....

https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-camp-cancels-austin-texas-event-after-pro-trump-ambush-on-campaign-bus?source=articles&via=rss?soc_src=newsroom&soc_trk=com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard&.tsrc=newsroom

I thought these kinds of bullshit tactics were only used by the woke shitheads who yell at people in restaurants and what not. I guess not.

Voter suppression and voter intimidation seem to be far more the from the playbook of Trump supporters than anyone else. It’s a far bigger and far more real threat to the integrity of the election than the voter fraud they’re accusing the left of. That falls somewhere between completely exaggerated and completely made up.

Our country is being overrun by shitheads.

This is wrong from the Trump supporters, just as it was for 10’s of thousands of people who shutdown Trump’s Chicago campaign speech in March of 2016. Of course Trump was to blame for both.

Like you have said, there are plenty of crazies on both sides.

xubrew
11-01-2020, 02:59 PM
This is wrong from the Trump supporters, just as it was for 10’s of thousands of people who shutdown Trump’s Chicago campaign speech in March of 2016. Of course Trump was to blame for both.

Like you have said, there are plenty of crazies on both sides.

Yes. There are. That's not a small problem either. Both parties like to yell at the other party's crazies. What both parties need to start doing is yelling at their own crazies. The Woke Shitheads on the left and the cult members on the right both need to be fired INTO THE SUN!!!

bobbiemcgee
11-01-2020, 03:56 PM
trump plans to declare victory on Tuesday nite. Why? I dunno.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523866-trump-plans-to-declare-victory-if-he-takes-election-night-lead-axios

xubrew
11-01-2020, 05:30 PM
trump plans to declare victory on Tuesday nite. Why? I dunno.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523866-trump-plans-to-declare-victory-if-he-takes-election-night-lead-axios

How do you, of all people, not know why?

bobbiemcgee
11-01-2020, 08:18 PM
You should probably re-read the link:

Trump plans to declare victory if he takes Election Night lead:
President Trump
has told those in his orbit he intends to prematurely declare victory on election night if early returns are favorable to him despite uncounted ballots that could lead to a loss, Axios reported

Why would he do that? Would the Bengals declare a win at the beginning of the 4th quarter?

xubrew
11-01-2020, 08:33 PM
You should probably re-read the link:

Trump plans to declare victory if he takes Election Night lead:
President Trump
has told those in his orbit he intends to prematurely declare victory on election night if early returns are favorable to him despite uncounted ballots that could lead to a loss, Axios reported

Why would he do that? Would the Bengals declare a win at the beginning of the 4th quarter?

I read it. I know why he’s doing it. Don’t you?? It’s pretty obvious, isn’t it? He wants to create a narrative that it was stolen from him.

Strange Brew
11-01-2020, 08:44 PM
Ran into a massive (10 mi long) Trump caravan this morning on C-470 in CO this morning.

xuwillie
11-01-2020, 08:46 PM
Biden would claim he won if he was ahead at the end of election night as well. Who wouldn’t?

xubrew
11-01-2020, 08:56 PM
Biden would claim he won if he was ahead at the end of election night as well. Who wouldn’t?

No one has ever declared victory before there was a unanimous projection that they had actually won.

paulxu
11-01-2020, 08:58 PM
You should probably re-read the link:

Would the Bengals declare a win at the beginning of the 4th quarter?

They should. In 4 of 6 of their losses/tie, they were ahead going into the 4th quarter.

bobbiemcgee
11-01-2020, 09:40 PM
Texas secretary of state authorized drive through voting in the primary.
It has been continued in the general election.
So, Texas republicans are going to court to disallow 100,000 votes cast that way so far.

How can anyone be a good republican and be proud of this sort of activity to prevent counting peoples' votes.

The all republican Texas supreme court decided to allow the votes, on to the next Court tmrw.

bobbiemcgee
11-01-2020, 09:42 PM
I read it. I know why he’s doing it. Don’t you?? It’s pretty obvious, isn’t it? He wants to create a narrative that it was stolen from him.

Got it.

tacopizza885
11-01-2020, 10:44 PM
Probably should start with this:

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1322996649430581248?s=20



If you are interested in Greenwald, you might want to review this:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/10/30/glenn-greenwalds-self-hack-i-could-go-on-and-on/


Yeah, saw this site mentioned a whole lot while reading about this controversy, and thought it looked/sounded very familiar. Then it hit me, it's Marcy Wheeler's creation (didn't make the "emptywheel" connection) (http://cchs.auburn.edu/senior-fellows/marcy-wheeler.html). I've been following Greenwald sporadically since the Snowden leaks. This episode with editors seemed uncharacteristic, and a bit surprising.


This Greenwald saga is the microcosm for everything that is wrong with the Main Stream media too.

The "cool kids" from woke college journalism schools are taking over the palace, and making it a veritable Garbage Dump.


Playing devil's advocate here, I imagine we could say the same thing about James O'Keefe, PragerU, and Charlie Kirk (not to mention Rush, Glenn Beck, etc.. the old establishment opinion journalism "Garbage Dump").

Xville
11-02-2020, 08:16 AM
trump plans to declare victory on Tuesday nite. Why? I dunno.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523866-trump-plans-to-declare-victory-if-he-takes-election-night-lead-axios

Cited from axios and their anonymous sources...it must be true! Do better

GoMuskies
11-02-2020, 09:18 AM
Cited from axios and their anonymous sources.

Probably Miles Taylor

xubrew
11-02-2020, 09:24 AM
Cited from axios and their anonymous sources...it must be true! Do better

Fair point. But Trump declaring victory before any other single credible source declares him to be the victor wouldn't even crack the top ten of the most ridiculous things he's said/done while in office. Also a fair point.

paulxu
11-02-2020, 11:00 AM
Last ditch efforts. Knowing how easily people are fooled, it might just work.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/01/tech/false-biden-video-twitter/index.html

GoMuskies
11-02-2020, 11:03 AM
Matt Taibbi with the nice turn of phrase: calls this year's election a "vomit milkshake".

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1323266730014216193?s=20

GoMuskies
11-02-2020, 11:09 AM
dp

Masterofreality
11-02-2020, 11:20 AM
I think Bari Weiss may be the most hated person on Twitter. It's weird.

I really don't understand the reason why. I enjoy reading her, though she is basically Liberal in her leanings.

I think she is a sharp knife in a drawer full of dullards.

GoMuskies
11-02-2020, 11:59 AM
Last ditch efforts. Knowing how easily people are fooled, it might just work.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/01/tech/false-biden-video-twitter/index.html

Is this one real?

https://twitter.com/xCHAMPiOWNSx/status/1323104385597988864?s=20

I hate Twitter. I'm just trying to post the reply, but it includes the post it was replying to as well. Frustrating for an old man like me.

Lloyd Braun
11-02-2020, 12:34 PM
dp

That’s exactly how I feel about the election.

paulxu
11-02-2020, 12:53 PM
Hah!. He launched his campaign on YouTube, and it sounds like he's got it confused with the "oval"....whatever that is.

paulxu
11-02-2020, 01:02 PM
These are truly strange times. Many long time conservatives have expressed concern for their party, most in the last year leading up to the election.
These include people such as George Will, Bill Kristol, Cindi McCain and on and on.
But, I'm surprised that Ben Ginsberg is helping to persuade the federal court to let the Texas drive through ballots count.
Hopefully they will listen to him, given his background.

boozehound
11-02-2020, 01:11 PM
These are truly strange times. Many long time conservatives have expressed concern for their party, most in the last year leading up to the election.
These include people such as George Will, Bill Kristol, Cindi McCain and on and on.
But, I'm surprised that Ben Ginsberg is helping to persuade the federal court to let the Texas drive through ballots count.
Hopefully they will listen to him, given his background.

I've been told that they are all washed up failures.

In all seriousness - The condemnation from former military leaders and cabinet members is actually more surprising to me than the defections from Kristol, McCain, etc.

MADXSTER
11-02-2020, 01:25 PM
dp

Yeah, I think we all feel this way.

GoMuskies
11-02-2020, 03:09 PM
We doing odds for impeachment? How about +450?


I found a PBS article from April that says he's 3-2 to be impeached. But I'd have to dig into that a bit more. I mean, is that like Bill Clinton impeached, or is it impeached and removed (or resigned)?


Hmm. Yeah I think to avoid confusion maybe it should be "leave office." I'm willing to put $20 on it and loser donates to site. Come on everyone wins, even this deranged place of lunacy we call Xavier Hoops. Either that or I'm suffering withdrawals until the Preakness.


I'm in for $20. Wouldn't be surprised to lose that one for any number of reasons, but I don't think it will be Russia. Most likely loss for me (IMO): he just gets tired of it and claims some sort of health issue and resigns. Or he randomly grabs a stranger by the pussy. Equally likely.

Where is SemajParlor? It's about time he ponied up $20 to the site!

paulxu
11-02-2020, 03:10 PM
More fun....from Trump's former Director of National Intelligence:

https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1323021094773788672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1323021094773788672%7Ctwgr% 5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fr ichard-grenell-mark-levin-deceptive-joe-biden-photo_n_5fa03a45c5b6befb909127dbth

The photo on the plane was from 2019, before the pandemic.

noteggs
11-02-2020, 07:10 PM
Is this one real?

https://twitter.com/xCHAMPiOWNSx/status/1323104385597988864?s=20

I hate Twitter. I'm just trying to post the reply, but it includes the post it was replying to as well. Frustrating for an old man like me.

What people don’t understand about this video is Joe was just speaking Mandarin. Trust me, China got the message.

Masterofreality
11-03-2020, 11:36 AM
Trump 2020

Lamont Sanford
11-03-2020, 11:44 AM
Trump 2020

Just did my part to send Sleepy Creepy Dementia Joe back to his basement permanently. Socialism doesn't work.

#MAGA

XU_Lou
11-03-2020, 12:08 PM
Trump 2020

Bump!!

X-band '01
11-03-2020, 12:19 PM
Just did my part to send Sleepy Creepy Dementia Joe back to his basement permanently. Socialism doesn't work.

#MAGA

You have to vote the Spirit Squad out of Congress to do that (or whatever they call themselves).

bobbiemcgee
11-03-2020, 12:42 PM
DUMP Trump 2020
Fixed

Lloyd Braun
11-03-2020, 08:45 PM
What are the odds?

Fulton election results delayed after pipe bursts in room with ballots

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

GoMuskies
11-03-2020, 09:42 PM
Trump is now a solid favorite to retain the White House. Wow.

Xville
11-03-2020, 09:55 PM
Trump is now a solid favorite to retain the White House. Wow.

If true and it turns out that way, we can assume three things: 1. polls are stupid and should never be paid attention to
2. The democratic party is effing retarded
3. Lots of silent trump voting due to fear of repercussions

Xville
11-03-2020, 09:59 PM
Mcgrath spent 88 million to get about 33 % of the vote vs McConnell. What a ridiculous amount of waste that could have gone to actually making a positive impact on the state and the country as a whole.

bjf123
11-03-2020, 09:59 PM
If true and it turns out that way, we can assume three things: 1. polls are stupid and should never be paid attention to
2. The democratic party is effing retarded
3. Lots of silent trump voting due to fear of repercussions

If Trump does somehow win, which I still doubt, I think #3 is the main reason.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

X Factor
11-03-2020, 10:29 PM
Nate Silver should retire

X-band '01
11-03-2020, 10:30 PM
It's possible that Arizona and Wisconsin could flip and that still wouldn't be enough to unseat Trump.

Xville
11-03-2020, 11:15 PM
I think this is going to all come down to pa and if so, it's going to be at least a week before we know anything.

waggy
11-03-2020, 11:22 PM
From what I'm seeing it's already over. Trump has won. Florida is his, the media just doesn't want to say it. I mean 99%+ of the vote is in, it's over. They have Virginia blue, but Trump continues to actually lead.

X-band '01
11-03-2020, 11:25 PM
Trump is leading Virginia because not all the suburban counties around DC have been counted. Once those votes are in, Virginia will officially go for Biden.

Also noteworthy is that even Fox is officially calling Arizona for Biden AND for Democrat Mark Kelly in their Senate race. Their state will suddenly have 2 Democrats in their delegation.

Xville
11-03-2020, 11:32 PM
This election is going to clearly mirror all of 2020...it is going to be a complete shitshow for the next few weeks.

GoMuskies
11-03-2020, 11:51 PM
Looks like it's moved to virtual tie with voters. Wild.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 02:18 AM
Going to roll into tomorrow at least it seems.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 02:30 AM
Can't believe this is happening again.

Lloyd Braun
11-04-2020, 07:48 AM
Trump is now a solid favorite to retain the White House. Wow.

The live betting odds are crazy... it’s flipped again

boozehound
11-04-2020, 07:54 AM
Can't believe this is happening again.

You were really in it for the long haul, last night. I tapped out around 11:00 figure to (maybe) wake up and find out who won.

Even if they manage to win the Presidency (which seems maybe a bit better than a coin flip at this point - AZ, NV, WI, and MI seem to be the most likely states) the Democrats have a major problem. They under-performed in House races. Under-performed expectations in the Senate. Under-performed expectations for the Presidential race.

The Democrats probably aren't going to get an easier shot than they got this year for quite some time. We had 4 years of Trump's ridiculous antics plus a Pandemic and it still didn't result in a clear win (if they win at all) in the Presidential election.

The first thing they should do is dump Pelosi as Speaker of the House - that should have been done a long time ago. The next thing they need to is develop a platform that appeals to

Then they need to figure out a platform that appeals to a wider swath of Americans. America is a representative democracy, not a pure democracy. Rural America will always carry outsized influence on a per-capita basis and the Democrats are getting absolutely slaughtered. I suppose it's possible to go forward without rural voters if they can capture enough of a majority in Midwestern Cities, but that doesn't really appear to be working for them. It also likely will be tough to translate to Senate wins.

They need to figure out how to handle their sizable lunatic fringe - It doesn't matter if they expand the woke vote in California, Washington, and Oregon, or Chicago, NYC, etc. for that matter. The reality is that most of America find those people insufferable - so while they help run up the vote count, they alienate others in the rest of the Country. *Note: I actually thought that Biden did a pretty good job of not pandering to the far left - it looks like it may not be enough though.

Regardless of the outcome I'd like to hope we could go forward as a Country that is more united than we have been over the past 4 years, but I see almost no chance of that happening.

Xville
11-04-2020, 07:57 AM
And of course the election mirrors the rest of this year----shitty....where we probably wont even have a victor for several weeks, and even if we do, there are going to probably be several recounts and lawyers...yay

xubrew
11-04-2020, 09:15 AM
Trump is now a solid favorite to retain the White House. Wow.

Looks that way. And even if he doesn't, he's not going anywhere. Unless the GOP kicks him out, he's pretty well set up to be the frontrunner in 2024. It needed to pretty much be a landslide for him to go away, which it clearly wasn't.

Xville
11-04-2020, 09:19 AM
Looks that way. And even if he doesn't, he's not going anywhere. Unless the GOP kicks him out, he's pretty well set up to be the frontrunner in 2024. It needed to pretty much be a landslide for him to go away, which it clearly wasn't.

The way it looks now, biden is going to win...the remaining votes that need to be counted are primarily the mail-in which is a majority of biden voters. It's going to be close, but biden has it. Regardless, I just hope that four years from now, we have two options to be excited about, and not two old dementia patients.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 09:22 AM
Looks that way. And even if he doesn't, he's not going anywhere. Unless the GOP kicks him out, he's pretty well set up to be the frontrunner in 2024. It needed to pretty much be a landslide for him to go away, which it clearly wasn't.

I think the odds have flipped overnight, but I'm not sure I believe it.

I also don't know if I really see a 80 year old Donald Trump running for reelection in 2024, although I agree that I don't think he will go away. I could see Don Jr or Ivanka trying to run in 2024, but I don't think either of them will capture the energy that Trump did. I think it's more likely we see more Nationalist/Populist Republican candidates though, which I was hoping to avoid.

The worst case scenario in my mind would be if we move any closer to a system of government in which we have Populist Nationalist right wingers running against Socialist / Communist left wingers.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 09:23 AM
I agree with XVille that the way this is going down sucks. It's going to drag out for way, way too long. But I think the result is kind of perfect. MOST of us here have been pretty clear that we don't have a whole lot of good things to say about either "team". And it looks like we're going to get an election result that reflects that both sides suck and no one gets any sort of mandate. Generally, I like it when government can't do/change much. Because when they try to do very much, they usually fuck it up.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 09:27 AM
From 2016 to 2020, Trump improved with every demographic except....white men. Not sure if this will hold, but it's high time that no demographic was safe for either party. Perhaps if the black vote, for example, is up for grabs, politicians will actually have to DO something to earn that community's vote instead of just prattling on about critical race theory bullshit.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 09:31 AM
If Biden wins this, my advice/statement to the Democrats would be this...

Fuck it up this time, and it may be 20 years before you ever win another election. Making promises to people in order to secure their votes and then doing jack shit for them until the time comes when you need to make more promises in order to secure more votes will sink your damn ship. A lot of people on the Right don't particularly like Trump (a lot do, but a lot don't). They just hate you. Understand that, and understand why that is.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 09:34 AM
PA is going to be a complete shit show. Trump is up by like 11 points with 76% of the vote in, however Biden has a real chance to win if the carries the remaining absentee and mail in ballots with similar margins to what he has seen this far. If Trump goes from up 11 to losing based on a shitload of mail in ballots that are likely to be counted very late, watch out.

It looks like AZ is pretty much in the bag for Biden. NV, and WI look likely. MI looks like Biden will win but quite possibly by less than 1% of the vote, which will likely open up challenges.

At this point the only way this MAYBE ends without a lot of controversy is if Biden wins AZ, NV, WI, MI all by 1%+, which I would give very little chance of happening.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 09:35 AM
If Biden wins this, my advice/statement to the Democrats would be this...

Fuck it up this time, and it may be 20 years before you ever win another election. Making promises to people in order to secure their votes and then doing jack shit for them until the time comes when you need to make more promises in order to secure more votes will sink your damn ship. A lot of people on the Right don't particularly like Trump (a lot do, but a lot don't). They just hate you. Understand that, and understand why that is.

Right. The squad needs to pipe the fuck down a little. Stop making them your mascot, and find a platform that Middle America can get on board with.

On a positive note: my (current) home state of NJ just legalized weed, so if I have to endure another 4 years of Trump's idiotic antics I can at least get high while doing it.

chico
11-04-2020, 09:51 AM
Biden right now on my sports book is at -375, so he's looking pretty good. Hopefully if he does win he carries Nevada, Wisconsin and Michigan (he's leading in all 3 right now) so PA is a moot point. And the Senate is looking like it will stay Republican.

Xville
11-04-2020, 09:52 AM
If biden wins, I bet the house flips in two years. That will make sure nothing gets done for half his term, which is probably a good thing...or for half Harris's term when biden stops being propped up like weekend at bernies

xubrew
11-04-2020, 09:58 AM
If biden wins, I bet the house flips in two years. That will make sure nothing gets done for half his term, which is probably a good thing...or for half Harris's term when biden stops being propped up like weekend at bernies

Probably so.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 10:13 AM
If biden wins, I bet the house flips in two years. That will make sure nothing gets done for half his term, which is probably a good thing...or for half Harris's term when biden stops being propped up like weekend at bernies

Hopefully Biden can work with the Senate to at least get some important things done. He needs to push Pelosi and her crew away from the brink, and hopefully bring some level of civility to the office. I don't want / need him to do anything drastic. Just don't be Trump. Don't be Obama either for that matter. If the Republicans are being obstructionist use the bully pulpit to highlight it, but don't be a dick about it (like Obama kind of was).

xubrew
11-04-2020, 10:20 AM
Hopefully Biden can work with the Senate to at least get some important things done. He needs to push Pelosi and her crew away from the brink, and hopefully bring some level of civility to the office. I don't want / need him to do anything drastic. Just don't be Trump. Don't be Obama either for that matter. If the Republicans are being obstructionist use the bully pulpit to highlight it, but don't be a dick about it (like Obama kind of was).

This in and of itself would be a tremendous accomplishment!!!

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 10:21 AM
I shouldn't read Twitter. It's depressing. All these people who hate half the country and think everything is racism. Ugh.

chico
11-04-2020, 10:24 AM
Except for that 70's sports guy, twitter is a cesspool.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 10:45 AM
This in and of itself would be a tremendous accomplishment!!!

They need someone from a swing state as Speaker. Her Schtick obviously plays well in CA, but most of the country doesn't think like CA.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 11:21 AM
I think the odds have flipped overnight, but I'm not sure I believe it.

I also don't know if I really see a 80 year old Donald Trump running for reelection in 2024, although I agree that I don't think he will go away. I could see Don Jr or Ivanka trying to run in 2024, but I don't think either of them will capture the energy that Trump did. I think it's more likely we see more Nationalist/Populist Republican candidates though, which I was hoping to avoid.

The worst case scenario in my mind would be if we move any closer to a system of government in which we have Populist Nationalist right wingers running against Socialist / Communist left wingers.


Yes he will. He will do it just to annoy me.

X-band '01
11-04-2020, 12:19 PM
Wisconsin - it looks like Milwaukee and Madison are all in minus absentee/mail-in ballots. Biden leads by about 20-30K votes right now; that state could go either way.

Michigan - there's plenty of votes in Detroit/Wayne County left for Biden, and the only real chance Trump has would be if neighboring Monroe County goes big for him. They just started counting that area.

Nevada - this is a slight lead to Biden, but if Trump flips this state and holds on in PA, NC and GA - he wins even if Wisconsin and Michigan flip. Let that sink in.

X-band '01
11-04-2020, 12:21 PM
Oh, and John James is slightly ahead in his Senate seat in Michigan. This would be a major flip for the GOP.

It's looking like the only other flips we'll see are Alabama (GOP) and Colorado/Arizona (Democrats). At the very least, things look good for Mitch McConnell to run the Senate for two more years.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 12:26 PM
Oh, and John James is slightly ahead in his Senate seat in Michigan. This would be a major flip for the GOP.

It's looking like the only other flips we'll see are Alabama (GOP) and Colorado/Arizona (Democrats). At the very least, things look good for Mitch McConnell to run the Senate for two more years.

Can the Dems and Reps make a deal?? Pelosi will no longer be speaker and McConnell will no longer be the majority leader.

X-band '01
11-04-2020, 12:44 PM
The way I look at it - while Pelosi would be bad, having someone like an AOC or other left-wing socialist would be even worse. Better the devil you know.

If you want to get rid of Mitch, keep in mind that the next in line would be 80+ year-old Chuck Grassley. No bueno.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 01:56 PM
This is fascinating. After a 2 AM announcement that he might be cheated out of victory if states kept counting ballots after Tuesday, with thousands of mail in ballots left to be counted...he's now going to Wisconsin to get a re-count.
The Dems ought to pull a Bush, and ask the Supreme Court to stop the recount.
It worked before.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 02:08 PM
This is fascinating. After a 2 AM announcement that he might be cheated out of victory if states kept counting ballots after Tuesday, with thousands of mail in ballots left to be counted...he's now going to Wisconsin to get a re-count.
The Dems ought to pull a Bush, and ask the Supreme Court to stop the recount.
It worked before.

I heard that Trump nominated ACB to the Supreme Court just for this situation.

X-man
11-04-2020, 02:49 PM
This is fascinating. After a 2 AM announcement that he might be cheated out of victory if states kept counting ballots after Tuesday, with thousands of mail in ballots left to be counted...he's now going to Wisconsin to get a re-count.
The Dems ought to pull a Bush, and ask the Supreme Court to stop the recount.
It worked before.

Especially bizarre given the fact that the Republican legislatures in most of these states, including Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, forbid any action with absentee ballots until after polls close on election day. Ohio, was able to finish up quickly because our legislature allows absentee ballots to be certified, but not counted, before election day as they come in. So Trump is suing because of what Republicans mandated in those states. What an f***ing tool!

paulxu
11-04-2020, 02:57 PM
Especially bizarre given the fact that the Republican legislatures in most of these states, including Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, forbid any action with absentee ballots until after polls close on election day.

Combine those rules with millions of ballots being mailed this time around because of the virus...and you get a situation where you have to wait for a while for them all to be counted. Someone should point this out to the president. I'm just hoping they actually get counted, and that the effort by the postal inspector to screw things up didn't work.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 03:04 PM
Candace Owens showed up in my Twitter timeline, and I was wondering what that was all about. Sure enough.....it was a Snipe retweet! So he lives.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 03:10 PM
For comic relief next year, 2 QAnon nut jobs will be roaming the halls of Congress next year.
We'll be treated with stuff like this:


“I’m very excited about that now there’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take this global cabal of Satan-worshipping pedophiles out, and I think we have the president to do it,” Greene said while campaigning.

Should be exciting.

Strange Brew
11-04-2020, 03:31 PM
Hold on to your hats people. Massive ballot dumps in MI and WI (all for Biden) miraculously showed up overnight.

Xville
11-04-2020, 03:47 PM
For comic relief next year, 2 QAnon nut jobs will be roaming the halls of Congress next year.
We'll be treated with stuff like this:


Should be exciting.

Maybe they can hang out with the tween tantrum squad and they can all stand in a circle, yell and whine at each other.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 03:57 PM
For comic relief next year, 2 QAnon nut jobs will be roaming the halls of Congress next year.
We'll be treated with stuff like this:


Should be exciting.

Does anyone else think that QAnon was manifested in the world of Anonymous?? One of the things Anonymous likes to do is to make stupid people do stupid things basically so they can just laugh at them. Is that what all this is?? I mean, it's QAnon ANON!!

xubrew
11-04-2020, 03:59 PM
This is fascinating. After a 2 AM announcement that he might be cheated out of victory if states kept counting ballots after Tuesday, with thousands of mail in ballots left to be counted...he's now going to Wisconsin to get a re-count.
The Dems ought to pull a Bush, and ask the Supreme Court to stop the recount.
It worked before.

If they counted them right the first time then there shouldn't be a problem if they count them again.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 04:05 PM
Hold on to your hats people. Massive ballot dumps in MI and WI (all for Biden) miraculously showed up overnight.

I'm not saying this is fraud (because there's a 99.9% chance it's not), but even if it was blatant fraud right out in the open most mainstream media outlets wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. None of that crew want anything to do with getting blamed for four more years of Trump.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 04:23 PM
I'm having deja vu to 2000.
Trump now asking Supreme Court to stop counting ballots in Pennsylvania.
Blows me away of how crazy that sounds in a democracy. Stop counting votes.
When state law doesn't allow them to be counted until after the polls close.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 04:32 PM
I'm not saying this is fraud (because there's a 99.9% chance it's not), but even if it was blatant fraud right out in the open most mainstream media outlets wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. None of that crew want anything to do with getting blamed for four more years of Trump.

I don't think it's fraud either, but I also agree that the optics of it are questionable. When you guy is ahead, and then they count the mail-in ballots and he's behind, conspiracists are gonna say "well they just waited until they knew how many votes they needed!!" Conspiracists are also gonna go nuts if their guy is ahead after most of the state is counted, then all of a sudden there is a late surge of votes from a city that's usually Democratically controlled.

Two things...

1) They should start counting mail in ballots as they arrive, or at least start opening the envelopes and assuring the validity of the ballots so they can get them all ready to run through the machines. I understand not wanting to make those results known prior to Election Day because it may influence how people behave and vote on Election Day, but they should have most of those counted and included as they initially begin to release the results of the counting process right as the polls close. There is no reason to argue against this unless one side is trying to complicate the counting process just so they can make it easier to question.

2) If you've ever lived and tried to vote in a densely populated area such as an inner city, you know that voting sucks. The equipment is typically older and outdated, the lines are much longer, there is way less staff, and there are way fewer physical voting booths to vote at. It's going to take people in these places longer to vote, and it's going to take the counters longer to count them. Most of these people vote Democratic, which is why you sometimes see these late surges that can be head scratching. My suggestion? Try and give them the same staffing and resources as those who are able to be in and out in less than twenty minutes. If you feel that people shouldn't vote by mail, I guarantee you that you wouldn't feel that way if you routinely had to wait over four hours to vote. You'd want to vote by mail too. Don't close a bunch of polling places making it even harder for people to vote than what it already is, and then cry foul when so many people opt to vote by mail instead.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 04:34 PM
It's Republican state legislatures that have restricted counting mail in ballots until election day or after.
You should speak to them.
(and nobody saw a pandemic increasing the mail-in vote by so much)

xubrew
11-04-2020, 04:41 PM
It's Republican state legislatures that have restricted counting mail in ballots until election day or after.
You should speak to them.
(and nobody saw a pandemic increasing the mail-in vote by so much)

I know. I think they did it to intentionally complicate the process and/or make the optics of the process seem questionable.

I hate The Left because of the lunatic fringe woke shitheads. I hate The Right because they are more dishonest and will compromise a lot of integrity to get what they want. The Right is also starting to get a rather unlikeable lunatic fringe of their own.

Xville
11-04-2020, 04:41 PM
I'm having deja vu to 2000.
Trump now asking Supreme Court to stop counting ballots in Pennsylvania.
Blows me away of how crazy that sounds in a democracy. Stop counting votes.
When state law doesn't allow them to be counted until after the polls close.

Because there are people breaking the law. Stop acting like he is doing that just to do it. Not saying there is voter fraud happening, but there are people literally breaking the law by not allowing Republican polling observers to observe.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 04:44 PM
Because there are people breaking the law. Stop acting like he is doing that just to do it.

Pretty sure he's doing that because of who he thinks those people voted for.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 04:46 PM
Pretty sure he's doing that because of who he thinks those people voted for.

He doesn't seem to want Arizona to stop counting ballots. I wonder if that is related to the fact that he thinks they might help him.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 04:48 PM
He doesn't seem to want Arizona to stop counting ballots. I wonder if that is related to the fact that he thinks they might help him.

Maybe this will help:

Trump wants no more counting in PA, GA
(where he's ahead)

He wants to continue counting in Nevada / Arizona
(where he's behind)

He wants a REcount in Wisconsin
(where all votes have been counted)

Xville
11-04-2020, 04:52 PM
Maybe this will help:

Trump wants no more counting in PA, GA
(where he's ahead, because there is evidence of people breaking the law)

He wants to continue counting in Nevada / Arizona
(where he's behind because there is no evidence of people breaking the law yet)

He wants a REcount in Wisconsin
(where all votes have been counted because it is a battleground state and its close enough to make sense. Oh and the numbers fall under the state law availability to do so. The same thing will happen in NC and/or Ga if the numbers are around the same and its legal to do so)

Fixed it for you

boozehound
11-04-2020, 04:53 PM
Maybe this will help:

Trump wants no more counting in PA, GA
(where he's ahead)

He wants to continue counting in Nevada / Arizona
(where he's behind)

He wants a REcount in Wisconsin
(where all votes have been counted)

Next you're going to tell me that the close elections in which Trump has lost are fraudulent, but the close elections he has won are perfectly valid

xubrew
11-04-2020, 04:55 PM
What evidence is there of people breaking the law? Maybe they are, and if that's the case then they should stop. But they should then start again, and start all the way over if they have to. But don't not count all the ballots. To do that would also be breaking the law.

boozehound
11-04-2020, 04:57 PM
What evidence is there of people breaking the law? Maybe they are, and if that's the case then they should stop, but start again, and start all the way over if they have to. But don't not count all the ballots.

Right. I also can't find a credible news source with anything substantive on this. I'm unclear on the what the evidence of law breaking is.

Xville
11-04-2020, 04:57 PM
What evidence is there of people breaking the law? Maybe they are, and if that's the case then they should stop. But they should then start again, and start all the way over if they have to. But don't not count all the ballots.

I said it earlier, it is by law in Pennsylvania, that Republican Observers should be allowed to see those "mailed-in" ballots to make sure that they are actual real ballots. They have not been allowed to. Not saying there is fraud, but it is still literally breaking the law.

Xville
11-04-2020, 04:58 PM
Right. I also can't find a credible news source with anything substantive on this. I'm unclear on the what the evidence of law breaking is.

Credible in your world---CNN, MSNBC or any other media conglomerate for Biden

boozehound
11-04-2020, 04:59 PM
I said it earlier, it is by law in Pennsylvania, that Republican Observers should be allowed to see those "mailed-in" ballots to make sure that they are actual real ballots. They have not been allowed to. Not saying there is fraud, but it is still literally breaking the law.

Wasn't there like 1 allegation of that that was rectified? What is happening in GA that is illegal?

boozehound
11-04-2020, 05:00 PM
Credible in your world---CNN, MSNBC or any other media conglomerate for Biden

Right. If you are willing to wholesale discount the 'mainstream media' but believe anything your fringe sources tell you there is no limit to what you can believe.

EDIT: I'll consider Fox credible. They are definitely pro-TRump. I don't see them reporting on this rampant fraud.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 05:00 PM
I said it earlier, it is by law in Pennsylvania, that Republican Observers should be allowed to see those "mailed-in" ballots to make sure that they are actual real ballots. They have not been allowed to. Not saying there is fraud, but it is still literally breaking the law.

Fair enough. If they've met all of the legal certification to be an observer, then let them in and count them again. But if they are just some random people who showed up claiming they were there to observe, then keep going.

Xville
11-04-2020, 05:01 PM
Right. If you are willing to wholesale discount the 'mainstream media' but believe anything your fringe sources tell you there is no limit to what you can believe.

Not the entire media, just your liberal darlings that are so heavily biased

boozehound
11-04-2020, 05:01 PM
Not the entire media, just your liberal darlings.

Who is credible to you?

Xville
11-04-2020, 05:11 PM
Who is credible to you?

read up https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/policies-for-election-observers.aspx

and then see what several republican officials have said. Just because your liberal rags don't report it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and if the dems win in a recount or once the investigation into this has been completed, what's really the problem that you have? Not saying there is fraud here, but if laws are literally being broken, then the situation needs to be rectified.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 05:17 PM
It would be much more credible if your referenced source said the law was being broken. Not several republican officials.

Rudy says all kinds of crazy shit.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 05:33 PM
I'm having deja vu to 2000.
Trump now asking Supreme Court to stop counting ballots in Pennsylvania.
Blows me away of how crazy that sounds in a democracy. Stop counting votes.
When state law doesn't allow them to be counted until after the polls close.

If the Supreme Court denies this request, will they mail Trump the results??

boozehound
11-04-2020, 05:40 PM
read up https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/policies-for-election-observers.aspx

and then see what several republican officials have said. Just because your liberal rags don't report it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and if the dems win in a recount or once the investigation into this has been completed, what's really the problem that you have? Not saying there is fraud here, but if laws are literally being broken, then the situation needs to be rectified.

So you declined to actually name even a single media source the you consider to be credible, but instead a link to what an election observer is and an un-sourced allegation?

I'm not challenging that an election observer isn't a thing that exists, just that I can't seem to find anyone that doesn't have a direct stake in the Trump campaign that is putting much stock in this allegations. Including FoxNews.

I absolutely agree that if laws are being broken that they should be rectified, and if necessary the votes from that location should be re-counted with a high degree of scrutiny. That's fine. I'm just not sure I'm seeing highly credible allegations of it happening, and certainly not with any scale.

paulxu
11-04-2020, 05:42 PM
Florida 2000 redux

https://twitter.com/PattersonNBC

bobbiemcgee
11-04-2020, 05:43 PM
Why is Rudy suing Pa. If Joe wins Nevada, it's over.

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 05:45 PM
Why is Rudy suing Pa. If Joe wins Nevada, it's over.

If he holds AZ. That's not certain.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 06:06 PM
Why is Rudy suing Pa. If Joe wins Nevada, it's over.

It's Rudy.

This also raises the question...could Biden's lawyers file a petition to get the lawsuit thrown out simply on the basis that it was filed by Rudy? Any legal experts wanna weigh in on that?

paulxu
11-04-2020, 06:39 PM
I wonder if any Democrats have ever sued to stop counting votes.

bobbiemcgee
11-04-2020, 06:45 PM
If he holds AZ. That's not certain.

Everyone called the Kelly race. Do you expect a lot of split ballots?

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 06:48 PM
I have no idea. But it's not exactly unheard of for one party to win the Presidential race and another to win the Senate race. Maine last night, for example.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 06:49 PM
I wonder if any Democrats have ever sued to stop counting votes.

Not that I recall.

If Biden wins this will also be the first time that I can recall that the Republicans will be whining about how the election was stolen from them.

MADXSTER
11-04-2020, 07:09 PM
The big question is, assuming Joe Biden wins, will Joe get to the bottom of the Hunter Biden, Burisma, China scandal?

Xville
11-04-2020, 07:17 PM
I wonder if any Democrats have ever sued to stop counting votes.

Nah the dems are just famous for whining and throwing temper tantrums after all the votes are counted.

XUBob
11-04-2020, 07:27 PM
I’ve followed this thread for the entire time, never posted. Upfront I voted for Trump, thought Biden would win. That looks to be true, I’m ok with our process working even though my guy looks to be the loser. What bothers me the most is the division in this country between left and right. It’s been seen in the comments in this thread. It hit home for me tonight. We have a group that walks every night. (Our bubble). My sister-in-law whom I love dearly was up all night. Couldn’t sleep, worrying about a Trump win. She is a great person but has a visceral hatred for Trump. I’ve seen this too much on both sides. If it doesn’t change I’m afraid the needle won’t move. I have no answers, just one man’s opinion.

xavierj
11-04-2020, 07:34 PM
I’ve followed this thread for the entire time, never posted. Upfront I voted for Trump, thought Biden would win. That looks to be true, I’m ok with our process working even though my guy looks to be the loser. What bothers me the most is the division in this country between left and right. It’s been seen in the comments in this thread. It hit home for me tonight. We have a group that walks every night. (Our bubble). My sister-in-law whom I love dearly was up all night. Couldn’t sleep, worrying about a Trump win. She is a great person but has a visceral hatred for Trump. I’ve seen this too much on both sides. If it doesn’t change I’m afraid the needle won’t move. I have no answers, just one man’s opinion.

Thanks for sharing. I feel the same way. I voted for Trump as well as I feel what he wanted to do was the best for the country but his personality is what did him in. The hatred that has come out over the past 4 years is disgusting. If we don’t start coming together as a country it’s going to be bad for our future. People need to calm down and do what’s best for everyone as a whole. You can’t expect to have everything you want. There has to be some give and take and accept the differences in opinion others have. The hate needs to end.

bobbiemcgee
11-04-2020, 07:51 PM
I have no idea. But it's not exactly unheard of for one party to win the Presidential race and another to win the Senate race. Maine last night, for example.

Seems like a 'Hail Mary:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/10/21/large-shares-of-voters-plan-to-vote-a-straight-party-ticket-for-president-senate-and-house/

GoMuskies
11-04-2020, 08:09 PM
Probably is.

bobbiemcgee
11-04-2020, 08:48 PM
trump sued to stop the vote in Mi - don't think Joe will contest that. whaaat?

Also looks like GA back in play.

bigdiggins
11-04-2020, 08:56 PM
Thanks for sharing. I feel the same way. I voted for Trump as well as I feel what he wanted to do was the best for the country but his personality is what did him in. The hatred that has come out over the past 4 years is disgusting. If we don’t start coming together as a country it’s going to be bad for our future. People need to calm down and do what’s best for everyone as a whole. You can’t expect to have everything you want. There has to be some give and take and accept the differences in opinion others have. The hate needs to end.

I'm sure that will be the media and leftist narrative. Resist, fight, throw out bullshit for four years, but now lets get along so we can have our way and raise taxes.

JEHARDI
11-04-2020, 09:52 PM
[QUOTE=xavierj;683384]Thanks for sharing. I feel the same way. I voted for Trump as well as I feel what he wanted to do was the best for the country but his personality is what did him in. The hatred that has come out over the past 4 years is disgusting. If we don’t start coming together as a country it’s going to be bad for our future. People need to calm down and do what’s best for everyone as a whole. You can’t expect to have everything you want. There has to be some give and take and accept the differences in opinion others have. The hate needs to end.[/QUOTE

Great read below and some sound advice. We all need to take a deep breath and a step back and think about how we move past our differences.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/mitch-albom/2020/11/01/mitch-albom-2020-presidential-election/6102179002/

XU 23
11-04-2020, 09:53 PM
Senate polls were hilariously bad.

-Collins (R) finished about -6 in the polling average and is currently +10 in her race.
-McConnel (R) finished about +9 in the polling average and he is currently at +21.
-Lindsey Graham won by 10 points in a race that was supposed to be a tossup.
-Tuberville (R) finished about +12 in the polling and is currently at +21.
-Ernst (R) finished +1.4 in the polling and is currently at +6.6
-Peters (D) finished +5.4 in the polling and is currently at +1.1
-Tillis (R) finished -2.6 in the polling and is currently at +1.8
-Daines (R) finished in a virtual tie in the polls and is currently at +10

State presidential polls were similarly off in favor of Biden, but not as bad.

Regardless, the polls were completely skewed towards Democrats once again and were completely wrong once again. Complete and total incompetence. Or corruption.

bobbiemcgee
11-04-2020, 10:59 PM
perdue is @ 50.1% in GA. If he slips under 50 = runoff which would be two runoffs in Ga since that butthole Collins got kicked out.

xubrew
11-04-2020, 11:37 PM
Senate polls were hilariously bad.

-Collins (R) finished about -6 in the polling average and is currently +10 in her race.
-McConnel (R) finished about +9 in the polling average and he is currently at +21.
-Lindsey Graham won by 10 points in a race that was supposed to be a tossup.
-Tuberville (R) finished about +12 in the polling and is currently at +21.
-Ernst (R) finished +1.4 in the polling and is currently at +6.6
-Peters (D) finished +5.4 in the polling and is currently at +1.1
-Tillis (R) finished -2.6 in the polling and is currently at +1.8
-Daines (R) finished in a virtual tie in the polls and is currently at +10

State presidential polls were similarly off in favor of Biden, but not as bad.

Regardless, the polls were completely skewed towards Democrats once again and were completely wrong once again. Complete and total incompetence. Or corruption.

In 2016 everyone said the polls were way off. They really weren't. I think if a poll gets it within three percentage points then that's about as accurate as you could reasonably expect them to be, and back in 2016 the vast majority of the polls got most of the states and most of the down ballot elections within that range.

In 2020, the polls were so far off that I can't help but wonder if they will ever be reliable again. To miss the popular vote by more than 6 points is kind of absurd. The examples quoted above are not just kind of absurd, they are beyond absurd.

In 2016 most polls, and FiveThirtyEight in particular, missed the winner, but they nailed the popular vote, all of the states they said would be decisive were decisive, and all of the states that they said would be close were close. This year, they may get Biden right (although it hasn't happened yet), but they got it right in the sense that you pick one team to win by 40 and they end up winning by 2. In the world of polling/forecasting, that's not really "getting it right."

X-band '01
11-04-2020, 11:39 PM
I don't see Democrats turning out heavily for a runoff in either December or January. It's a lot more likely that the Collins voters will back Kelly Loeffler and give the Republicans a hold in the Senate.

X-band '01
11-04-2020, 11:40 PM
In contrast, Arizona is one of the few places that has election results that were more in line with polling.

JEHARDI
11-05-2020, 07:46 AM
A republican senate and a Biden presidency is the best outcome with two incredibly flawed and polarizing candidates. Hope both parties do some soul searching and put forth better candidates in 2024.

paulxu
11-05-2020, 09:30 AM
What could be more undemocratic than the President of the United States tweeting out "Stop the Count"?

It's like living in a banana republic.

ThrowDownDBrown
11-05-2020, 09:32 AM
I’ve followed this thread for the entire time, never posted. Upfront I voted for Trump, thought Biden would win. That looks to be true, I’m ok with our process working even though my guy looks to be the loser. What bothers me the most is the division in this country between left and right. It’s been seen in the comments in this thread. It hit home for me tonight. We have a group that walks every night. (Our bubble). My sister-in-law whom I love dearly was up all night. Couldn’t sleep, worrying about a Trump win. She is a great person but has a visceral hatred for Trump. I’ve seen this too much on both sides. If it doesn’t change I’m afraid the needle won’t move. I have no answers, just one man’s opinion.


Thanks for sharing. I feel the same way. I voted for Trump as well as I feel what he wanted to do was the best for the country but his personality is what did him in. The hatred that has come out over the past 4 years is disgusting. If we don’t start coming together as a country it’s going to be bad for our future. People need to calm down and do what’s best for everyone as a whole. You can’t expect to have everything you want. There has to be some give and take and accept the differences in opinion others have. The hate needs to end.

Not picking a deplorable human being to lead one of the two political parties would be a good first step.

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 09:33 AM
Not picking a deplorable human being to lead one of the two political parties would be a good first step.

I don't think Biden is a deplorable human being. Now, Hillary Clinton on the other hand....

bleedXblue
11-05-2020, 09:44 AM
I don't think Biden is a deplorable human being. Now, Hillary Clinton on the other hand....

Biden is a shill who HAS lied and will say anything to get a vote. He's proven that over and over again over his long, unflattering career. The entire situation with his son is laughable for him to claim he knew nothing of his corrupt foreign business dealings.

The American people need to push for massive political reform.

xubrew
11-05-2020, 10:03 AM
What could be more undemocratic than the President of the United States tweeting out "Stop the Count"?

It's like living in a banana republic.

Actually stopping the count.

xuwillie
11-05-2020, 10:07 AM
In contrast, Arizona is one of the few places that has election results that were more in line with polling.

I still think something shady is going on in AZ. How can all the polls be so off around the country but correct here?!

X-man
11-05-2020, 10:11 AM
I still think something shady is going on in AZ. How can all the polls be so off around the country but correct here?!

I sincerely hope that you had your sarcasm font engaged with this post.

xuwillie
11-05-2020, 10:18 AM
Why? Look around the country and all battleground states where way off. But somehow they got AZ correct? Maybe they did but seems strange to me...

XU 23
11-05-2020, 10:22 AM
In 2016 everyone said the polls were way off. They really weren't. I think if a poll gets it within three percentage points then that's about as accurate as you could reasonably expect them to be, and back in 2016 the vast majority of the polls got most of the states and most of the down ballot elections within that range.

In 2020, the polls were so far off that I can't help but wonder if they will ever be reliable again. To miss the popular vote by more than 6 points is kind of absurd. The examples quoted above are not just kind of absurd, they are beyond absurd.

In 2016 most polls, and FiveThirtyEight in particular, missed the winner, but they nailed the popular vote, all of the states they said would be decisive were decisive, and all of the states that they said would be close were close. This year, they may get Biden right (although it hasn't happened yet), but they got it right in the sense that you pick one team to win by 40 and they end up winning by 2. In the world of polling/forecasting, that's not really "getting it right."

I recall Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan being way off in 2016 in the polls. But this year, it was even worse. Not just for president, but for senate. The disturbing trend is that when they are off, they are off in favor of Democrats. ALWAYS.

XU 87
11-05-2020, 10:36 AM
I recall Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan being way off in 2016 in the polls. But this year, it was even worse. Not just for president, but for senate. The disturbing trend is that when they are off, they are off in favor of Democrats. ALWAYS.

This XU 23 knows his stuff.

Do you have any thoughts on global warming?

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 10:52 AM
The disturbing trend is that when they are off, they are off in favor of Democrats. ALWAYS.


XU 23 knows his stuff.

The rate of voting fraud in the US is less than 0.0009%. Rudy suggesting people in phila. were out collecting 50,000 unused mail in ballots, filling them out fraudulently (how would they even have the time to do this), and dropping them off @ 4 a.m. Wednesday is preposterous. Just count all the friggin' votes.

XU 87
11-05-2020, 11:23 AM
The rate of voting fraud in the US is less than 0.0009%. Rudy suggesting people in phila. were out collecting 50,000 unused mail in ballots, filling them out fraudulently (how would they even have the time to do this), and dropping them off @ 4 a.m. Wednesday is preposterous. Just count all the friggin' votes.

It's not surprising that the party who wants convicted felons, including felons who are currently in prison, to have the right to vote also has no concern about voter fraud.

There's a difference between "count every vote" and "count every legal vote".

Mrs. Garrett
11-05-2020, 12:26 PM
It's not surprising that the party who wants convicted felons, including felons who are currently in prison, to have the right to vote also has no concern about voter fraud.

There's a difference between "count every vote" and "count every legal vote".

This PSA brought to you by "People from the Party of Voter Suppression"

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 12:53 PM
It's not surprising that the party who wants convicted felons....

I'm assuming your are referring to the 64.5% of florida voters who approved amendment 4. Guessing you will say it was just dems who voted in that 2018 election.

Do you believe Rudy?

paulxu
11-05-2020, 01:00 PM
Today's comic relief:

Trump supporters chanting "Fox News Sucks." (I guess they were unhappy about Fox calling Arizona, but I'm not sure)

ThrowDownDBrown
11-05-2020, 01:05 PM
Rudy fell for a Borat skit earlier this year. Why would anyone believe anything that idiot says?

boozehound
11-05-2020, 01:08 PM
Rudy fell for a Borat skit earlier this year. Why would anyone believe anything that idiot says?

LOL. That guys is just ranting and raving nonsense at this point. I can't imagine anyone taking him seriously.

If a legal challenge does actually make it's way to the supreme court, I think this is where the disorganization and chaos that surrounds Trump could really backfire. They don't seem to have any systemic strategy (other than challenge everything) and they have a lot of people claiming to speak on behalf of the campaign saying a lot of crazy shit, and sometimes conflicts with crazy shit the other people are saying.

94GRAD
11-05-2020, 01:09 PM
Rudy fell for a Borat skit earlier this year. Why would anyone believe anything that idiot says?

The fall-off from how he handled 911 to his clown show now is Grand Canyonesque

xubrew
11-05-2020, 01:11 PM
LOL. That guys is just ranting and raving nonsense at this point. I can't imagine anyone taking him seriously.

If a legal challenge does actually make it's way to the supreme court, I think this is where the disorganization and chaos that surrounds Trump could really backfire. They don't seem to have any systemic strategy (other than challenge everything) and they have a lot of people claiming to speak on behalf of the campaign saying a lot of crazy shit, and sometimes conflicts with crazy shit the other people are saying.

Yet people still listen to him!! He's every bit as nutso as your crazy drunken uncle that no one listens to but that you like anyway, only he really isn't likable either. Why do people listen to this blathering clown?? The fact that Trump employs him as his personal lawyer should be enough in and of itself to make everyone believe that he is totally unfit for office.

bleedXblue
11-05-2020, 01:16 PM
The rate of voting fraud in the US is less than 0.0009%. Rudy suggesting people in phila. were out collecting 50,000 unused mail in ballots, filling them out fraudulently (how would they even have the time to do this), and dropping them off @ 4 a.m. Wednesday is preposterous. Just count all the friggin' votes.

How do you know the rate of voter fraud? LOL

Fraud is fraud. Until its caught, you cant quantify it.

paulxu
11-05-2020, 01:23 PM
How do you know the rate of voter fraud? LOL

Fraud is fraud. Until its caught, you cant quantify it.

Because he reads?


In April 2020, a 20-year voter fraud study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found the level of fraud "exceedingly rare" since it occurs only in "0.00006 percent" of instances nationally, and, in one state, "0.000004 percent — about five times less likely than getting hit by lightning in the United States."

Xville
11-05-2020, 01:37 PM
Because he reads?

Apparently you didnt read what bleed said. Fraud is only fraud once it is found. To assign a percent to it makes zero sense.

boozehound
11-05-2020, 01:38 PM
Yet people still listen to him!! He's every bit as nutso as your crazy drunken uncle that no one listens to but that you like anyway, only he really isn't likable either. Why do people listen to this blathering clown?? The fact that Trump employs him as his personal lawyer should be enough in and of itself to make everyone believe that he is totally unfit for office.

To be fair: Trump went through a lot of lawyers before he found one as crazy as Giuliani. You almost think Trump has to have some dirt on him to get him to degrade himself like this.


How do you know the rate of voter fraud? LOL

Fraud is fraud. Until its caught, you cant quantify it.

This is, I think, one of the most damaging things that has come out of this election. The idea that many of latched on to that there is some kind of widespread, systemic, voter fraud perpetrated onlyby Democrats. Because it's difficult to prove a negative, there is really no way to conclusively show that there isn't fraud. People can point to the fact that the actual incidence of confirmed voter fraud is extremely low, but that won't placate people who have been convinced of the narrative that massive voter fraud exists (and, again, benefits only the Democrats). It's damaging to the very core of America because it undermines confidence in our institution. All because Trump said so.

This also falls under that 'what would you have to believe for this to be true' umbrella for me. Depending on the situation it seems that Democrats are either complete idiots, or absolute criminal masterminds capable of pulling off massive voter fraud without leaving evidence. Remember these are the same people that couldn't even leak a Democratic Primary Debate question to Hillary Clinton without getting caught.

Xville
11-05-2020, 01:55 PM
To be fair: Trump went through a lot of lawyers before he found one as crazy as Giuliani. You almost think Trump has to have some dirt on him to get him to degrade himself like this.



This is, I think, one of the most damaging things that has come out of this election. The idea that many of latched on to that there is some kind of widespread, systemic, voter fraud perpetrated onlyby Democrats. Because it's difficult to prove a negative, there is really no way to conclusively show that there isn't fraud. People can point to the fact that the actual incidence of confirmed voter fraud is extremely low, but that won't placate people who have been convinced of the narrative that massive voter fraud exists (and, again, benefits only the Democrats). It's damaging to the very core of America because it undermines confidence in our institution. All because Trump said so.

This also falls under that 'what would you have to believe for this to be true' umbrella for me. Depending on the situation it seems that Democrats are either complete idiots, or absolute criminal masterminds capable of pulling off massive voter fraud without leaving evidence. Remember these are the same people that couldn't even leak a Democratic Primary Debate question to Hillary Clinton without getting caught.

With the amount of crazies out there on both sides, I think rationally it makes sense that fraud is probably higher than .0000009% or whatever percent is out there. I think rationally most people also understand that there isnt massive fraud out there. Both can be true.

jhelmes37
11-05-2020, 01:56 PM
I recall Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan being way off in 2016 in the polls. But this year, it was even worse. Not just for president, but for senate. The disturbing trend is that when they are off, they are off in favor of Democrats. ALWAYS.

It's almost like the media loves the left and hates the right.

Shocker.

boozehound
11-05-2020, 02:09 PM
With the amount of crazies out there on both sides, I think rationally it makes sense that fraud is probably higher than .0000009% or whatever percent is out there. I think rationally most people also understand that there isnt massive fraud out there. Both can be true.

Right, but what do you do? Obviously put any reasonable measure in place to prevent it and (I assume) accept that some small amount will probably always exist.

Unless we really, really believe that there is significant and consequential voter fraud going on I would argue that it is extremely destructive to be casting this kind of doubt on the validity of our voting process.

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 02:22 PM
If we have elections getting decided by less than a thousand votes (possible in Georgia), it doesn't take much fraud to swing an election, apparently.

Xville
11-05-2020, 02:25 PM
If we have elections getting decided by less than a thousand votes (possible in Georgia), it doesn't take much fraud to swing an election, apparently.

Yep.

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 02:38 PM
If we have elections getting decided by less than a thousand votes (possible in Georgia), it doesn't take much fraud to swing an election, apparently.

Well, first you would have to recruit a 1000 people, then provide them with ssn#'s or some form of ID and get them thru the polls (with the proper signature) somehow without being detected, then, of course, you would have to pay them 'cause they aren't going to risk jail time for nothing, then you would have to keep the scouts pledge of never telling anyone anything for ALL TIME. Crooks always seem to have a hard time with this one.
Of course, the mastermind of this ploy would first have to figure out months in advance which race in which state and for which party he was going to make the 1000 vote difference in and raise thousands of dollars. Nothing to this fraud thing.

boozehound
11-05-2020, 02:45 PM
If we have elections getting decided by less than a thousand votes (possible in Georgia), it doesn't take much fraud to swing an election, apparently.

Which I agree with, and we should take all reasonable measures to prevent fraud. I'm still not sure what ranting and raving about how our elections are fraudulent helps that though. Free and fair elections are literally the cornerstone of our Democracy.

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 02:53 PM
Well, first you would have to recruit a 1000 people, then provide them with ssn#'s or some form of ID and get them thru the polls (with the proper signature) somehow without being detected, then, of course, you would have to pay them 'cause they aren't going to risk jail time for nothing, then you would have to keep the scouts pledge of never telling anyone anything for ALL TIME. Crooks always seem to have a hard time with this one.
Of course, the mastermind of this ploy would first have to figure out months in advance which race in which state and for which party he was going to make the 1000 vote difference in and raise thousands of dollars. Nothing to this fraud thing.

That would be the dumbest way to do it given how many people are voting by mail. Hell, it would only take one Republican mailman working in a Democrat stronghold (or vice versa).

jhelmes37
11-05-2020, 03:31 PM
If we have elections getting decided by less than a thousand votes (possible in Georgia), it doesn't take much fraud to swing an election, apparently.

This is why a recount must happen in every close state. When you're talking 2k people in a state with 7.6 million registered voters (Georgia), that's 0.02% of ballots that are determining the winner.

When dealing with numbers that big, discrepancies are nearly guaranteed. A full audit must take place.

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 03:42 PM
That would be the dumbest way to do it given how many people are voting by mail. Hell, it would only take one Republican mailman working in a Democrat stronghold (or vice versa).

Criminals don't have the brightest bulbs. How would the crooked mailman theory work? Does he sign all the ballots?

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 03:46 PM
Criminals don't have the brightest bulbs. How would the crooked mailman theory work? Does he sign all the ballots?

He would "lose" ballots from his route.

bleedXblue
11-05-2020, 03:50 PM
To be fair: Trump went through a lot of lawyers before he found one as crazy as Giuliani. You almost think Trump has to have some dirt on him to get him to degrade himself like this.



This is, I think, one of the most damaging things that has come out of this election. The idea that many of latched on to that there is some kind of widespread, systemic, voter fraud perpetrated onlyby Democrats. Because it's difficult to prove a negative, there is really no way to conclusively show that there isn't fraud. People can point to the fact that the actual incidence of confirmed voter fraud is extremely low, but that won't placate people who have been convinced of the narrative that massive voter fraud exists (and, again, benefits only the Democrats). It's damaging to the very core of America because it undermines confidence in our institution. All because Trump said so.

This also falls under that 'what would you have to believe for this to be true' umbrella for me. Depending on the situation it seems that Democrats are either complete idiots, or absolute criminal masterminds capable of pulling off massive voter fraud without leaving evidence. Remember these are the same people that couldn't even leak a Democratic Primary Debate question to Hillary Clinton without getting caught.

Lets keep this in context. This is the first election that I am aware of, where there is a significant amount of mail in ballots. The opportunity for fraud is much higher when you don't show up in person, with an ID, confirming your address and having your signature verified. Pretty hard to cheat that system.

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 03:55 PM
with an ID

Woah, woah, woah. I think we've all been "educated" by now that requiring such a thing is super racist voter suppression.

xubrew
11-05-2020, 04:46 PM
This is, I think, one of the most damaging things that has come out of this election. The idea that many of latched on to that there is some kind of widespread, systemic, voter fraud perpetrated onlyby Democrats. Because it's difficult to prove a negative, there is really no way to conclusively show that there isn't fraud. People can point to the fact that the actual incidence of confirmed voter fraud is extremely low, but that won't placate people who have been convinced of the narrative that massive voter fraud exists (and, again, benefits only the Democrats). It's damaging to the very core of America because it undermines confidence in our institution. All because Trump said so.

This also falls under that 'what would you have to believe for this to be true' umbrella for me. Depending on the situation it seems that Democrats are either complete idiots, or absolute criminal masterminds capable of pulling off massive voter fraud without leaving evidence. Remember these are the same people that couldn't even leak a Democratic Primary Debate question to Hillary Clinton without getting caught.

I'm going with the Democrats being complete idiots. Let's suppose for a second that they are cheating. Why the hell are they cutting it so close?? They were favored to win big. And why not also cheat on the under ballot? Many were expecting them to get control of the senate. Had they won big and had they gotten control of the senate and had we known it the night of the election, it would have actually not looked all that suspicious. So, to be fair, if the Democrats were to cheat, this is probably how they'd go about doing it because they are complete idiots. I think the real foul play is the attempt to suppress the vote and/or stop all the ballots from being counted.

paulxu
11-05-2020, 05:40 PM
I'm still trying to get my mind around this.
You have a Republican legislature who sets election rules.
They make a rule that mail in ballots can't be opened/counted till election day or the day after.
You get a million mail in ballots.
Then the leader of the Republican party says...Stop the Count!
How do these people sleep at night? (I know, very well)
And it seems that it's always Republicans going to court to stop the ballots being counted.
Sorry...just don't know how you can live with all that, and say that you believe in fair elections.
But then worry about some sort of massive, media hyped "fraud" that has never been proven to exist.

xubrew
11-05-2020, 06:28 PM
I'm still trying to get my mind around this.
You have a Republican legislature who sets election rules.
They make a rule that mail in ballots can't be opened/counted till election day or the day after.
You get a million mail in ballots.
Then the leader of the Republican party says...Stop the Count!
How do these people sleep at night? (I know, very well)
And it seems that it's always Republicans going to court to stop the ballots being counted.
Sorry...just don't know how you can live with all that, and say that you believe in fair elections.
But then worry about some sort of massive, media hyped "fraud" that has never been proven to exist.

Pretty much.

xu82
11-05-2020, 06:28 PM
I think Al Gore might just pull this one out......

STL_XUfan
11-05-2020, 06:40 PM
I think Al Gore might just pull this one out......
Deal.

paulxu
11-05-2020, 06:58 PM
Fascinating. Just listen to the President speak.
He correctly pointed out how well Republicans did in the Senate races, and picking up seats in the House.
Noted his victories in states like Ohio and Florida.
But, somehow those same ballots that won a House or Senate seat, when it came to the portion of the ballot for President, miraculously became a fraudulent ballot when they were counting line.

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 07:14 PM
He would "lose" ballots from his route.

Both parties I presume. Funny, in the over 10,000 counties no one democrat or republican has reported fraud except you know who. No fraud, no investigations.

Strange Brew
11-05-2020, 07:14 PM
Fascinating. Just listen to the President speak.
He correctly pointed out how well Republicans did in the Senate races, and picking up seats in the House.
Noted his victories in states like Ohio and Florida.
But, somehow those same ballots that won a House or Senate seat, when it came to the portion of the ballot for President, miraculously became a fraudulent ballot when they were counting line.

Trump handily won those states you mentioned. The MI R senator candidate was also way ahead until late ballots came in. You’re argument doesn’t add up.

paulxu
11-05-2020, 07:29 PM
I was talking about a state where a Republican won a seat, but the presidential part of the ballot is somehow fraudulent.

Strange Brew
11-05-2020, 07:49 PM
I was talking about a state where a Republican won a seat, but the presidential part of the ballot is somehow fraudulent.

What state would that be? A reminder that House races are not statewide.

paulxu
11-05-2020, 07:54 PM
Minnesota for example, where a Republican unseated a Democrat.

The point is, that if you have ballots where Republicans down ballot win, then somehow the President says they are fraudulent ballots, it strains credibility in his remarks.

X-band '01
11-05-2020, 07:57 PM
I'm going with the Democrats being complete idiots. Let's suppose for a second that they are cheating. Why the hell are they cutting it so close?? They were favored to win big. And why not also cheat on the under ballot? Many were expecting them to get control of the senate. Had they won big and had they gotten control of the senate and had we known it the night of the election, it would have actually not looked all that suspicious. So, to be fair, if the Democrats were to cheat, this is probably how they'd go about doing it because they are complete idiots. I think the real foul play is the attempt to suppress the vote and/or stop all the ballots from being counted.

The Republicans are very lucky that Cal Cunningham couldn't control his wiener during his campaign. With Biden as President, they could have Kamala Harris breaking any potential 50-50 ties in the Senate.

JEHARDI
11-05-2020, 08:14 PM
He would "lose" ballots from his route.

So all these people who did not receive their ballot are not going to say anything? You cannot be that naive. The fact that no respectable republicans are coming to Trump’s defense is pretty telling. Republican leaders and the secretary of State in GA have been adamant that there has been no fraud.
As usual Trump is not talking the advice of his advisors and is going to do it his way. He is getting what he deserves, disgraceful and destructive.

boozehound
11-05-2020, 08:24 PM
That was a totally normal press conference from the sitting President, right guys?

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 08:27 PM
So all these people who did not receive their ballot are not going to say anything?

The postman would lose them on the return, not on the delivery.

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 08:32 PM
The postman would lose them on the return, not on the delivery.

So to do his job correctly, he would have to know who they voted for. How? I tracked my vote all the way to the Board of elections as did most of my friends.

JEHARDI
11-05-2020, 08:36 PM
Come on man you are embarrassing yourself.

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 08:37 PM
So to do his job correctly, he would have to know who they voted for. How? I tracked my vote all the way to the Board of elections as did most of my friends.

You wouldn't have to know who they voted for. Everyone knows approximately what % of votes are going to be for which candidate based on the area the votes are coming for. If you "lost" 100 ballots from a particular neighborhood, you'd have a pretty good idea how many were voting for which candidate.

bobbiemcgee
11-05-2020, 08:37 PM
Fascinating. Just listen to the President speak.
He correctly pointed out how well Republicans did in the Senate races, and picking up seats in the House.
Noted his victories in states like Ohio and Florida.
But, somehow those same ballots that won a House or Senate seat, when it came to the portion of the ballot for President, miraculously became a fraudulent ballot when they were counting line.

He was complaining because they are counting the votes...unbelievable. a no no in Pa and Ga., but ok in Az.

GoMuskies
11-05-2020, 08:38 PM
Come on man you are embarrassing yourself.

Perhaps you haven't read the last couple of pages. I've never suggested this is what happened. Just that it wouldn't take much.

Xville
11-05-2020, 08:38 PM
So to do his job correctly, he would have to know who they voted for. How? I tracked my vote all the way to the Board of elections as did most of my friends.

Really? If I was the postman around my neighborhood, it would be insanely easy to know who people voted for...for some reason people decide to "fly their flag" which I'm sorry is the dumbest thing in my opinion. The only flags that are acceptable are the real flag, and xavier.