Politics Thread

[Muskie in dayton]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Look up the LAW:


"The defendant, if he did not provoke the assault, is not obliged to retreat or flee to save his life, but may stand his ground, and even, in some circumstances, pursue his assailant until the latter has been disarmed or disabled from carrying into effect his unlawful purpose, and this right of the defendant goes even to the extent, if necessary, of taking human life. Boykin v. People, 22 Colo. 496, 45 P. 419 (1896); Enyart v. People, 67 Colo. 434, 180 P. 722 (1919)."

The victim would have been charged with ASSAULT AGAIN if he had survived.

Thanks for the law lesson Prof. Obvious. I never argued that the idiot who was shot wasn't committing assault (he did), but it's irrelevant to the question at-hand, which you are really struggling with. Since you won't admit it, I'll go ahead and answer. Punching, macing or otherwise assaulting someone does NOT give them the right to kill them.

[paulxu]

MOR, I'm not sure you understand the cumulative impact of the last 4 years of his rhetoric.
But if you're at all interested, here's a lengthy recap. Hope you'll stop to digest it.

https://www.vox.com/21506029/trump-violence-tweets-racist-hate-speech

[XU_Lou]

I just wanted to wish all my Dem friends on this board a Happy Columbus Day!

[XU_Lou]

MOR, I'm not sure you understand the cumulative impact of the last 4 years of his rhetoric.
But if you're at all interested, here's a lengthy recap. Hope you'll stop to digest it.

https://www.vox.com/21506029/trump-violence-tweets-racist-hate-speech

You're worried about rhetoric, but not the cumulative impact of Socialism? This is why no one on this board takes you seriously....

[Smails]

Again, you ignored the entire premise in that both sides own where we are.

Paul- Does the left have any culpability in the breakdown of political discourse in our society, or is this strictly a Trump and his supporters issue?

[noteggs]

Based on what I'm seeing in Committee, ACB is getting confirmed pretty easily. The attacks are weak. All about the ACA. That's not preventing anyone from getting confirmed to the Supreme Court.

Thought the same. Started to watch the Supreme Court hearing and a Obamacare debate broke out.

Even heard Blumenthal state today: “The right wants to use the Supreme Court to legislate from the bench.” I’m sorry but what???

[paulxu]

Paul- Does the left have any culpability in the breakdown of political discourse in our society, or is this strictly a Trump and his supporters issue?

Certainly there are supporters on what you describe as "the left" that share in the breakdown of civility in our discourse...and actions.
I'm tired of saying I don't condone the violence and unlawful acts of those you would describe as the left, nor do I approve whenever they contribute to the breakdown of the discourse.
But no leader on the Democrat side, thankfully, can boast of the track record of the president as outlined in that article, if you read it.
Attacking the media and urging violence by your supporters is a fascist sort of action that no true leader of a democracy should employ.

[X Factor]

What do you know, Biden tells another lie about his life..."claims he got raised in the Black church".

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/10/12/bidens-claims-church/

Plagiarized in the 80's and had to drop out of the Dem primaries (also failed a law class at Syracuse in '65 for plagiarising)
Lied about marching in the Civil Rights Movement
Lied about graduating at the top of his class in law school (the truth is practically the bottom)
Lied about being the first in his family to go to college
Lied about his ancestors working in the Pennsylvania coal mines for 12 hours a day
Lied about being arrested in the '70's while trying to visit Nelson Mandela in prison
Lied about becoming a teacher and professor after his time as Vice President (never happened, just got paid a lot of money to give speeches)

[Smails]

Certainly there are supporters on what you describe as "the left" that share in the breakdown of civility in our discourse...and actions.
I'm tired of saying I don't condone the violence and unlawful acts of those you would describe as the left, nor do I approve whenever they contribute to the breakdown of the discourse.


Look what happens when I take the "yeah but" part of your response. It actually looks like a direct answer to the question I posed. Personally, I'm more of a 'sticks and stones' who has really never been offended by someone's words. But that's just me. I tend to see better than I hear and I'll be damned if a politician's rhetoric is going to influence my actions.

One funny think about the hit piece (and please don't be naive to think it's anything more) is one of the specific examples cited was when Trump told a crowd that if they saw people throwing things at him that they should knock the hell out of them. How would you react if someone standing next to you threw something at the President of the United States? Would you let it happen?

[Smails]

But no leader on the Democrat side, thankfully, can boast of the track record of the president as outlined in that article, if you read it.
Attacking the media and urging violence by your supporters is a fascist sort of action that no true leader of a democracy should employ.

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1300397571538640901

https://scalise.house.gov/press-release/scalise-calls-democrat-leaders-stop-violent-rhetoric-fox-news-op-ed


Still think this is just a Trump problem?

[bobbiemcgee]

What do you know, Biden tells another lie about his life..."claims he got raised in the Black church".

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/10/12/bidens-claims-church/

Plagiarized in the 80's and had to drop out of the Dem primaries (also failed a law class at Syracuse in '65 for plagiarising)
Lied about marching in the Civil Rights Movement
Lied about graduating at the top of his class in law school (the truth is practically the bottom)
Lied about being the first in his family to go to college
Lied about his ancestors working in the Pennsylvania coal mines for 12 hours a day
Lied about being arrested in the '70's while trying to visit Nelson Mandela in prison
Lied about becoming a teacher and professor after his time as Vice President (never happened, just got paid a lot of money to give speeches)

Only 22k lies to go!

[bobbiemcgee]

You really need to seek professional help.

Apparently 57% of the population needs help. They'll have to pay cash for it soon.

[bobbiemcgee]

Punching, macing or otherwise assaulting someone does NOT give them the right to kill them.

You need a lesson in reading comprehension:
......and this right of the defendant goes even to the extent, if necessary, of taking human life.

The Court will determine, not you.

[X-band '01]

Based on what I'm seeing in Committee, ACB is getting confirmed pretty easily. The attacks are weak. All about the ACA. That's not preventing anyone from getting confirmed to the Supreme Court.


So wait, you support the bullshit liberal attacks on him constantly? The complete nonsensical impeachment shame? The BS that Brett Kavanaugh went through? I don't like Trump's style at all, but I can certainly understand his behavior at times. This is happening on BOTH sides. If you can't condemn both for culpability in where we are right now, then you are a lost cause and part of the problem.

Fortunately, the pearl clutching will stop when Biden gets to nominate a justice to replace Clarence Thomas during his first term (assuming he wins). I can't see Thomas going more than three decades in the Supreme Court.

Now if Trump wins, then all bets are off again.

[bobbiemcgee]

trump just got on a plane with no mask. Wonder how many of his supporters would follow to participate in his recirculated covid. Going down to Fl. to preach to the choir.

[XU_Lou]

trump just got on a plane with no mask. Wonder how many of his supporters would follow to participate in his recirculated covid. Going down to Fl. to preach to the choir.

Hey dumbass, you can't spread covid after you've already had it! Are you really that stupid? Please tell me you didn't get a degree from X....

[XU_Lou]

A BIG heartfelt thank you to Dr. Fauci, the Democrat Party, and leftists all over the world:

"World Bank, UN, Harvard, Think Tanks Warn COVID-19 Lockdowns, Response Leading To Global Starvation, Food Disruptions"

https://nationalfile.com/world-bank-un-harvard-think-tanks-all-warn-covid-19-leading-to-global-starvation-food-disruptions/

Hell, many conservatives were warning about this back in April.

[bobbiemcgee]

Hey dumbass, you can't spread covid after you've already had it! Are you really that stupid? Please tell me you didn't get a degree from X....

Feel free to french kiss your boy and see how that works out. I had covid. Tested negative and then got sick as hell. You have no clue. And I have 2 degrees from X, how about you?

[bobbiemcgee]

A BIG heartfelt thank you to Dr. Fauci, the Democrat Party, and leftists all over the world:

"World Bank, UN, Harvard, Think Tanks Warn COVID-19 Lockdowns, Response Leading To Global Starvation, Food Disruptions"

https://nationalfile.com/world-bank-un-harvard-think-tanks-all-warn-covid-19-leading-to-global-starvation-food-disruptions/

Hell, many conservatives were warning about this back in April.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/12/politics/fauci-trump-coronavirus-campaign-ad-cnntv/index.html

[XU_Lou]

Fuck you. Feel free to french kiss your boy and see how that works out. I had covid. Tested negative and then got sick as hell. You have no clue.

I bet your lying about that we well... I mean, you haven't said one thing on this board that is true in years.

[Smails]

The Court will determine, not you.

So I assume you are on board when the courts don't convict cops of the shootings of unarmed black men? Ruh roh....

[GoMuskies]

I'd feel pretty darn comfortable around Trump, Sen. Lee and Hope Hicks today. That's because I trust the scientists.

[XU_Lou]

So I assume you are on board when the courts don't convict cops of the shootings of unarmed black men? Ruh roh....

Little Bobbie seems to have a real problem with logic...

Ask him how his supposed personal issues with Covid, versus Trump's current scenario, are somehow comparable. He so filled with hatred he doesn't know what the hell he's saying anymore.

We're still trying to find out what the hell he was talking about when he compared the deaths of WWII soldiers to Covid patients???

[Xville]

Feel free to french kiss your boy and see how that works out. I had covid. Tested negative and then got sick as hell. You have no clue. And I have 2 degrees from X, how about you?

You had covid even though you tested negative? That's interesting and probably bullshit knowing the junk you spew here on a daily basis.

[Muskie in dayton]

You need a lesson in reading comprehension:
......and this right of the defendant goes even to the extent, if necessary, of taking human life.

The Court will determine, not you.
And you need a lesson in logic: based on your argument, it’s OK for the cops to start firing at rioting BLM and Antifa idiots.

I’ll be here to remind you when the court puts his sorry, terrorist ass away.

[paulxu]

I'd feel pretty darn comfortable around Trump, Sen. Lee and Hope Hicks today. That's because I trust the scientists.

I'm glad to hear that the president tested negative for the virus. I wish he also trusted the scientists as you do.

Then he would quarantine the science recommended 14 days, and not hold events where groups of people are unmasked and not socially distancing, and are in fact tightly packed. Hopefully there will not be a repeat of the spread like in the Rose Garden.

[xu82]

I wish basketball would start so we could all unite in something. It’s possible to disagree and make rational arguments without being so dismissive, divisive and resorting to name calling. The lack of civility is disappointing, but I guess that matches what we are seeing in our country. Still, I wish WE were better.

[GoMuskies]

I'm glad to hear that the president tested negative for the virus. I wish he also trusted the scientists as you do.

Then he would quarantine the science recommended 14 days, and not hold events where groups of people are unmasked and not socially distancing, and are in fact tightly packed. Hopefully there will not be a repeat of the spread like in the Rose Garden.

10 days after first symptoms is good to go. No need for a negative test. I mean, unless you are a science denier.

[kmcrawfo]

I'm glad to hear that the president tested negative for the virus. I wish he also trusted the scientists as you do.

Then he would quarantine the science recommended 14 days, and not hold events where groups of people are unmasked and not socially distancing, and are in fact tightly packed. Hopefully there will not be a repeat of the spread like in the Rose Garden.

It is important to remember that there is more than one path to confirming it is okay to return to work/society after a confirmed Covid diagnosis. One is that the patient must be at least 10 days removed from the initial onset of symptoms/diagnosis AND symptom free for at least 72 hours.

However, it is also acceptable to return to work:society if a patient is completely symptom free for 72 hours AND has 2 concurrent negative tests for Covid.

The healthcare systems I manage offer and accept both pathways for our staff , patients, and providers.

It appears that President Trump successfully met the second option from what I can tell.

[xu82]

10 days after first symptoms is good to go. No need for a negative test. I mean, unless you are a science denier.

What about the people who are hospitalized for months? Are they not contagious after 10 days? Serious question, not snarky. They are not allowed to have family visit. We know a lot more than we used to, but I’m afraid we still have a long way to go. I don’t pretend to have answers.

[xu82]

It is important to remember that there is more than one path to confirming it is okay to return to work/society after a confirmed Covid diagnosis. One is that the patient must be at least 10 days removed from the initial onset of symptoms/diagnosis AND symptom free for at least 72 hours.

However, it is also acceptable to return to work:society if a patient is completely symptom free for 72 hours AND has 2 concurrent negative tests for Covid.

The healthcare systems I manage offer and accept both pathways for our staff , patients, and providers.

It appears that President Trump successfully met the second option from what I can tell.

Thank you once again for some clarity!

[GoMuskies]

What about the people who are hospitalized for months? Are they not contagious after 10 days? Serious question, not snarky. They are not allowed to have family visit. We know a lot more than we used to, but I’m afraid we still have a long way to go. I don’t pretend to have answers.

Thankfully we have Doc Crawford to answer, and you don't have to rely on a lawyer for such things!

[paulxu]

The healthcare systems I manage offer and accept both pathways for our staff , patients, and providers.

I'm curious, if you could, to comment on the CDC recommendation of 14 days of quarantining? And what you might think of the mass rallies with no social distancing and little evidence of masks?

Thanks if you get the chance to respond.

[bobbiemcgee]

You had covid even though you tested negative? That's interesting and probably bullshit knowing the junk you spew here on a daily basis.

When I went home from the hospital asshole.

And I suppose you think your opinions should be taken as gospel?

[bobbiemcgee]

I bet your lying about that we well... I mean, you haven't said one thing on this board that is true in years.

How many times did you take Logic @ X? did you ever graduate? Doubt it.

Anybody that thinks it's a great idea to get in a plane and fly down to a superspreader event where there are no masks except behind the idiot for camera reasons and no social distancing is a fool. But then, ask Herman Cain. Ohhhh...he's dead.

[waggy]

You know, they really need to come up with a better name than "superspreader".

Don't google that.

[kmcrawfo]

I'm curious, if you could, to comment on the CDC recommendation of 14 days of quarantining? And what you might think of the mass rallies with no social distancing and little evidence of masks?

Thanks if you get the chance to respond.

We try to follow CDC and state department of health guidelines at all my facilities. I’ve never seen nor am I aware of any suggestion from the CDC that recommends 14 days. To make sure I was not mistaken I just visited the CDC website to review the current recommendations which I’m going to paste below. . I will say the current recommendation of being symptom free for only 24 hours by the CDC is inadequate in my and other Medical provider’s opinion. The current recommendation by my state’s department of health and other infectious disease experts of 72 hours makes me feel much more confident before I allow a patient provider or staff member to return to work.

I hope this is helpful:

Find CDC’s recommendations below:

I think or know I had COVID-19, and I had symptoms
You can be with others after

At least 10 days since symptoms first appeared and
At least 24 hours with no fever without fever-reducing medication and
Other symptoms of COVID-19 are improving**Loss of taste and smell may persist for weeks or months after recovery and need not delay the end of isolation​
If you had severe illness from COVID-19 (you were admitted to a hospital and needed oxygen), your healthcare provider may recommend that you stay in isolation for longer than 10 days after your symptoms first appeared (possibly up to 20 days) and you may need to finish your period of isolation at home. If testing is available in your community, your healthcare provider may recommend that you undergo repeat testing for COVID-19 to end your isolation earlier than would be done according to the criteria above. If so, you can be around others after you receive two negative tests results in a row, from tests done at least 24 hours apart.

I tested positive for COVID-19 but had no symptoms
If you continue to have no symptoms, you can be with others after:

10 days have passed since the date you had your positive test
If testing is available in your community, your healthcare provider may recommend that you undergo repeat testing for COVID-19 to end your isolation earlier than would be done according to the criteria above. If so, you can be around others after you receive two negative test results in a row, from tests done at least 24 hours apart.

If you develop symptoms after testing positive, follow the guidance above for “I think or know I had COVID, and I had symptoms.”

I had COVID-19 or I tested positive for COVID-19 and I have a weakened immune system
If you have a weakened immune system (immunocompromised) due to a health condition or medication, you might need to stay home and isolate longer than 10 days. Talk to your healthcare provider for more information.

If testing is available in your community, your healthcare provider may recommend you undergo repeat testing for COVID-19. If your healthcare provider recommends testing, you can be with others after you receive two negative test results in a row, at least 24 hours apart.

[kmcrawfo]

I’ve thought about this a little bit more and I realize that there is a recommendation of quarantining for up to 14 days after you’ve had a known exposure to Covid. That is because the incubation period may be up to 14 days. However, once you have actually been confirmed to have Covid it starts an entirely different timetable before you can return to work. I bet this is where the current 14 day quarantine number is coming from. I can see where expoExposure quarantining versus active disease quarantining could become confusing

So, in summary, if you have a known exposure and have not yet tested positive you are supposed to quarantine for 14 days. However, if you have tested positive then you can return after 10 days from the time of the initial symptom/ positive test plus being symptom-free for 72 hours. Also, you can return after being symptom-free for 72 hours in combination with two consecutive negative tests.

[Lloyd Braun]

I’ve thought about this a little bit more and I realize that there is a recommendation of quarantining for up to 14 days after you’ve had a known exposure to Covid. That is because the incubation period may be up to 14 days. However, once you have actually been confirmed to have Covid it starts an entirely different timetable before you can return to work. I bet this is where the current 14 day quarantine number is coming from. I can see where expoExposure quarantining versus active disease quarantining could become confusing

So, in summary, if you have a known exposure and have not yet tested positive you are supposed to quarantine for 14 days. However, if you have tested positive then you can return after 10 days from the time of the initial symptom/ positive test plus being symptom-free for 72 hours. Also, you can return after being symptom-free for 72 hours in combination with two consecutive negative tests.

This is something that on the surface seems confusing but makes sense due to incubation period. A very common scenario: person A is symptomatic and tests positive for COVID, recovers in 7 days, is symptom-free for 3 days and goes back to work on day 11. Everyone else in the house (spouse, roommate, etc) must also quarantine and they can’t go back to work until 14 days of quarantine. So the sick person goes back to work first, which is a crazy thought but makes sense. The 14 days also starts from the day of last contact. So if your spouse gets COVID, the quarantine starts from the day of last contact, not day 1 of the spouse’s infection.

[paulxu]

Thanks very much for the 2 responses above. That clarifies it a lot for me.
It makes sense that when you finally test positive (as I understand what you said) that you probably got the virus up to 4 days before that.
Add those days to the 10 from date of test and you get 14. And others have to start from the day you tested positive to count their 14.

Edit: I found this on the CDC website in regard to Social Distancing to return to my other question about rallies:


Keep Distance at Events and Gatherings: It is safest to avoid crowded places and gatherings where it may be difficult to stay at least 6 feet away from others who are not from your household. If you are in a crowded space, try to keep 6 feet of space between yourself and others at all times, and wear a mask. Masks are especially important in times when physical distancing is difficult.

[xubrew]

Okay, I have been laughing at this for about five straight minutes!

I can only hope the video is edited to insinuate something that clearly isn't true, but I don't know that it it is! Here is Donald Trump claiming to have won "three or four Nobel Peace Prizes!" OUTSTANDING!!!

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1315815385816592384

[Xville]

This confirmation hearing is such a clown show.

[GoMuskies]

This confirmation hearing is such a clown show.

It's cool to get to listen to a true expert talk about the law, though. Let's me reminisce about the good old days of law school.

[xubrew]

It's cool to get to listen to a true expert talk about the law, though. Let's me reminisce about the good old days of law school.

Question...

Is the ACA unconstitutional or not??

I know that GO is an attorney and that we have others on here as well. f you are not a lawyer or someone that legit understands the law, please defer to those that do. Thank you.

[noteggs]

It's cool to get to listen to a true expert talk about the law, though. Let's me reminisce about the good old days of law school.

It is pretty cool to hear from an expert. Wish we had more of that vs a politician pontificating.

Way past time for Grassley and Leahy to retire. Can’t understand either one of them when they speak.

[Muskie in dayton]

Here's one that will make Trump's idiotic ramblings seem like a breath of fresh air.

When Obama was a rising star, the Dems fabricated charges against one person and killed another who had dirt on Obama, according to the one who had the fabricated charges against him. https://twitter.com/i/status/1315794344448847877

[bobbiemcgee]

You have outdone yourself establishing a new low:

"Sinclair's biography, though, may get in the way of that pitch: Public records and court filings reveal that he has a 27-year criminal record, with a specialty in crimes involving deceit. The record includes forgery charges in two states, one of which drew Sinclair a 16-year jail sentence. The Pueblo County, Colo., Sheriff's Office also has an outstanding warrant for Sinclair's arrest for forging an acquaintance's signature and stealing her tax refunds."

Find some credible (not moronic) sources before you post, please.

[paulxu]

Okay, I have been laughing at this for about five straight minutes!

I can only hope the video is edited to insinuate something that clearly isn't true, but I don't know that it it is! Here is Donald Trump claiming to have won "three or four Nobel Peace Prizes!" OUTSTANDING!!!

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1315815385816592384

Wrong thread. Belongs in Favorite Comedy Movie one.

[xubrew]

Wrong thread. Belongs in Favorite Comedy Movie one.

I want someone to fact check this. I want a journalist to call Storting (who gives out the award) and ask them to verify whether or not Donald Trump has won "three or four of them." I don't know exactly how they will respond, but I'm pretty sure it will be very much worth reporting!!!

[Final4]

I want someone to fact check this. I want a journalist to call Storting (who gives out the award) and ask them to verify whether or not Donald Trump has won "three or four of them." I don't know exactly how they will respond, but I'm pretty sure it will be very much worth reporting!!!

Not that I make a habit out of trying to justify things Trump says but in all fairness, he didn't actually say he WON 3 or 4 Nobel Peace Prizes and he has, in fact, been nominated for 3.

[xubrew]

Not that I make a habit out of trying to justify things Trump says but in all fairness, he didn't actually say he WON 3 or 4 Nobel Peace Prizes and he has, in fact, been nominated for 3.

That's gotta be what it was. He didn't say 'nominated' in the 12 seconds of video, but he didn't say that he had 'won' them either. It was probably a clip that was intentionally taken out of context. It still struck me as hilarious. I know that it's wrong to do that, but the thought of him not being able to remember just how many Nobel Peace Prizes he had won is pretty funny.

[Muskie in dayton]

You have outdone yourself establishing a new low:

"Sinclair's biography, though, may get in the way of that pitch: Public records and court filings reveal that he has a 27-year criminal record, with a specialty in crimes involving deceit. The record includes forgery charges in two states, one of which drew Sinclair a 16-year jail sentence. The Pueblo County, Colo., Sheriff's Office also has an outstanding warrant for Sinclair's arrest for forging an acquaintance's signature and stealing her tax refunds."

Find some credible (not moronic) sources before you post, please.
Just trying to do it like you Bobbie. You’re my hero. Look for more soon.

[bobbiemcgee]

That's gotta be what it was. He didn't say 'nominated' in the 12 seconds of video, but he didn't say that he had 'won' them either. It was probably a clip that was intentionally taken out of context. It still struck me as hilarious. I know that it's wrong to do that, but the thought of him not being able to remember just how many Nobel Peace Prizes he had won is pretty funny.

Maybe he'll do another fake Time cover.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-time-magazine-with-trump-on-the-cover-hangs-in-his-golf-clubs-its-fake/2017/06/27/0adf96de-5850-11e7-ba90-f5875b7d1876_story.html

[X Factor]

The Biden's are a corrupt bunch. Joe has used his 47 year failed political career to get rich and benefit his druggie son Hunter.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/

Joe said he NEVER talked to his son about his business dealings..

[GoMuskies]

Question...

Is the ACA unconstitutional or not??

I know that GO is an attorney and that we have others on here as well. f you are not a lawyer or someone that legit understands the law, please defer to those that do. Thank you.

I have no idea. We'll have to confirm ACB to find out.

[paulxu]

20 Million Americans are holding their breath.

[chico]

Question...

Is the ACA unconstitutional or not??

I know that GO is an attorney and that we have others on here as well. f you are not a lawyer or someone that legit understands the law, please defer to those that do. Thank you.

Not a legal opinion but a blurb from an editorial in the Wall Street Journal - "the AG suit is political and legal malpractice because the lawsuit has almost no chance of success. Three conservative Justices have suggested in opinions this year that they are wary of throwing out entire laws due to discrete constitutionally defective provisions, and with good reason."

WSJ is about the only news source I trust and if their editorial board thinks there isn't a chance the ACA will be thrown out I tend to believe them.

Also, here is a quote from Justice Roberts regarding the issue presented in the ACA case - "As the Chief explained in his Seila Law v. CFPB opinion, “‘Generally speaking, when confronting a constitutional flaw in a statute, we try to limit the solution to the problem, severing any problematic portions while leaving the remainder intact,’” adding that the “‘traditional’ rule is that ‘the unconstitutional provision must be severed unless the statute created in its absence is legislation that Congress would not have enacted.’”

Different facts, but at least you can get a feel for how the Court will approach their decision.

[Masterofreality]

The Biden's are a corrupt bunch. Joe has used his 47 year failed political career to get rich and benefit his druggie son Hunter.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/

Joe said he NEVER talked to his son about his business dealings..

Yup. Thank goodness for a computer repair store owner who made sure that he got all of the info off that laptop before the laptop disappeared into the Deep State. Pretty amazing really, but I doubt that Geo Stephhy will ask Biden anything about this bombshell at the Town Hall. It will just be swept under the rug. I also have NO doubt that ABC will "vett" the audience to make sure that that question never comes up.

This just makes it more clear that the sham "Impeachment" was nothing more than an offensive to deflect the real Ukrainian scandal away from Biden and onto Trump. the Left always accuses, but never, NEVER comes up with their verification. Like Goldberg in The Atlantic with his totally uncorroborated story about what Trump supposedly called the US troops. Goldberg stated that there would be "more information and sources" emerging in the coming days". Welp, it's been over a month and crickets. Story is off the grid now, but some Dems like Harris and Biden are still keeping the lie alive.

"Russia, Russia, Russia". Yeah-for 3 years. The only one who profited from Russia was.....Hunter Biden. hmmmm.

[Masterofreality]

Not a legal opinion but a blurb from an editorial in the Wall Street Journal - "the AG suit is political and legal malpractice because the lawsuit has almost no chance of success. Three conservative Justices have suggested in opinions this year that they are wary of throwing out entire laws due to discrete constitutionally defective provisions, and with good reason."

WSJ is about the only news source I trust and if their editorial board thinks there isn't a chance the ACA will be thrown out I tend to believe them.

Also, here is a quote from Justice Roberts regarding the issue presented in the ACA case - "As the Chief explained in his Seila Law v. CFPB opinion, “‘Generally speaking, when confronting a constitutional flaw in a statute, we try to limit the solution to the problem, severing any problematic portions while leaving the remainder intact,’” adding that the “‘traditional’ rule is that ‘the unconstitutional provision must be severed unless the statute created in its absence is legislation that Congress would not have enacted.’”

Different facts, but at least you can get a feel for how the Court will approach their decision.


Good stuff R!!

[Masterofreality]

I'm curious, if you could, to comment on the CDC recommendation of 14 days of quarantining? And what you might think of the mass rallies with no social distancing and little evidence of masks?

Thanks if you get the chance to respond.

Maybe Dr. K can comment on the thousands of maskless and non-distancing people in Los Angeles rallying to celebrate the Lakers victory too.

[Masterofreality]

So I assume you are on board when the courts don't convict cops of the shootings of unarmed black men? Ruh roh....

And when Kyle Rittenhouse is set free from a Self Defense plea.

[X Factor]

Yup. Thank goodness for a computer repair store owner who made sure that he got all of the info off that laptop before the laptop disappeared into the Deep State. Pretty amazing really, but I doubt that Geo Stephhy will ask Biden anything about this bombshell at the Town Hall. It will just be swept under the rug. I also have NO doubt that ABC will "vett" the audience to make sure that that question never comes up.

This just makes it more clear that the sham "Impeachment" was nothing more than an offensive to deflect the real Ukrainian scandal away from Biden and onto Trump. the Left always accuses, but never, NEVER comes up with their verification. Like Goldberg in The Atlantic with his totally uncorroborated story about what Trump supposedly called the US troops. Goldberg stated that there would be "more information and sources" emerging in the coming days". Welp, it's been over a month and crickets. Story is off the grid now, but some Dems like Harris and Biden are still keeping the lie alive.

"Russia, Russia, Russia". Yeah-for 3 years. The only one who profited from Russia was.....Hunter Biden. hmmmm.

And right on cue, Facebook is censoring the story...

https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/facebook-censors-hunter-biden-expose-admits-zuckerbergs-policy-comms-director-who-used-to-work-for-four-democrat-orgs/

Real election interfering.

[X-band '01]

Once again, not sorry to have abandoned Facebook and Twitter. It's looking more and more like an arm of the Democratic Party under the guise of "fact-checking."

[bobbiemcgee]

And when Kyle Rittenhouse is set free from a Self Defense plea.

Honestly, I don't give a crap what the court does with any or all of these idiots. Judge away. :ok:

[noteggs]

After hearing about QAnon for the first time a few months back on this board, I was very curious and began searching long and hard find the original identity for this individual.

Every potential turn left me empty. I was getting rather frustrated and depressed with my research until the ACB hearings. I’m now more than convinced I found out his true identity and his name is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse.

[bobbiemcgee]

I always thought it was Glenn Beck, he's crazy enough.

[STL_XUfan]

After hearing about QAnon for the first time a few months back on this board, I was very curious and began searching long and hard find the original identity for this individual.

Every potential turn left me empty. I was getting rather frustrated and depressed with my research until the ACB hearings. I’m now more than convinced I found out his true identity and his name is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse.

I obviously know you were being sarcastic.

However, they actually do think they have identified the original Qanon (apparently the password was very hackable, so lots of people have cosplayed him since). The story behind it is a good listen, if you are actually interested in it. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/llhe5nm

[noteggs]

I obviously know you were being sarcastic.

However, they actually do think they have identified the original Qanon (apparently the password was very hackable, so lots of people have cosplayed him since). The story behind it is a good listen, if you are actually interested in it. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/llhe5nm

Yes sarcastic obviously, but truth be told I’ve been rather interested since you posted about him the first time. Will take a listen when I get chance. Think QAnon is going to be the new term for things people described as a conspiracy. Just like the term fake news has become when they don’t believe the subject from a news story report.

[STL_XUfan]

Yes sarcastic obviously, but truth be told I’ve been rather interested since you posted about him the first time. Will take a listen when I get chance. Think QAnon is going to be the new term for things people described as a conspiracy. Just like the term fake news has become when they don’t believe the subject from a news story report.

Reply All has 3 or 4 different episodes that have covered it as it evolved over the years. This episode gets into how it grew from the dark corners of the web mainly occupied by young people to its jump into older generations, which is really a cool (re:scary) view on how a conspiracy theory can grow from a joke everyone is on to the joke becoming so elaborate you don't know if it is still a joke or it is now real.

[paulxu]

Duh.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/media/fox-news-unmasking-obamagate/index.html

Just think of the hundreds of hours Fox gave to this story and the viewers who were sucked into it.

[GoMuskies]

What Twitter and Facebook are doing with respect to this NY Post story about Hunter Biden is coocoo for cocoa puffs. Their attempt to censor the story is greatly amplifying it.

[X Factor]

What Twitter and Facebook are doing with respect to this NY Post story about Hunter Biden is coocoo for cocoa puffs. Their attempt to censor the story is greatly amplifying it.

Twitter has locked out the NY Post's account! Unbelievable.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-ny-post-locked-out-of-twitter


It was only last month that the Post reported that Carlos Monje, who had served as Twitter's director or public policy, left Twitter for a position with the Biden transition team. Now, Twitter is actively suppressing information that reflects badly on the Biden campaign.

[bjf123]

Twitter’s response is that their policy to block “hacked” information. Another way to say that is information obtained illegally. Weren’t Trump’s tax returns obtained illegally? Didn’t seem to bother Twitter to have that information shared. There’s no standard like a double standard!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Sounds like a right wing nut job. He can't even say it was Hunter's computer.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-reportedly-gave-hunters-laptop-to-rudy-speaks-out-in-bizarre-interview

[X Factor]

Sounds like a right wing nut job. He can't even say it was Hunter's computer.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-reportedly-gave-hunters-laptop-to-rudy-speaks-out-in-bizarre-interview

But it had Hunter's emails, pictures, and videos of him smoking crack and having sex with a woman on it...

You dispute the emails and videos are real?

Can you imagine the media frenzy if this story involved one of Trump's sons?

[bjf123]

Can you imagine the media frenzy if this story involved one of Trump's sons?

They’d be calling for a major investigation and demanding Trump’s resignation. Pelosi would also be trying to figure out how to use it as the basis for another impeachment trial.

[bobbiemcgee]

But it had Hunter's emails, pictures, and videos of him smoking crack and having sex with a woman on it...

You dispute the emails and videos are real?

Can you imagine the media frenzy if this story involved one of Trump's sons?

"12-minute video that appears to show Hunter" After 12 minutes they couldn't tell if it was him or not?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/14/hunter-bidens-alleged-laptop-an-explainer/

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-post-hunter-joe-biden-giuliani-red-flags-disinformation-2020-10

[bobbiemcgee]

Crazy times we live in:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/politics/california-republicans-ballot-drop-boxes-cease-and-desist/index.html

[Muskie in dayton]

Twitter has locked out the NY Post's account! Unbelievable.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-ny-post-locked-out-of-twitter

Not considering that the person responsible for censoring Twitter content formerly worked for Kamala Harris.

"Democracy dies in darkness". Right Libs?

[Muskie in dayton]

NY Post is doubling down: https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/emails-reveal-how-hunter-biden-tried-to-cash-in-big-with-chinese-firm/amp/

[bleedXblue]

Our entire political system needs to be recalibrated. I don't trust ANY of them.

[X Factor]

NY Post is doubling down: https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/emails-reveal-how-hunter-biden-tried-to-cash-in-big-with-chinese-firm/amp/

Hunter was getting BIG paychecks from the China commies. He was spreading that wealth amongst the Biden family. But Dementia Joe didn't know anything about it...hahahaha.

The Biden's are as shady and corrupt as they come.

[murray87]

Hunter was getting BIG paychecks from the China commies. He was spreading that wealth amongst the Biden family. But Dementia Joe didn't know anything about it...hahahaha.

The Biden's are as shady and corrupt as they come.

Joe will clear all this up in his townhall tonight..........:popcorn:

[X Factor]

Big Tech (Twitter, facebook) is actively interfering in the election.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/twitter-locks-trump-campaign-account-less-than-3-weeks-before-presidential-election/

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/twitter-blacklists-links-to-house-gov-document/

[Muskie in dayton]

And the list gets longer. I suspect this may be a theme for the next couple weeks: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/hunter-biden-offered-10-million-annually-by-chinese-energy-firm-for-introductions-alone-email-shows/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/news/hunter-biden-offered-10-million-annually-by-chinese-energy-firm-for-introductions-alone-email-shows/)

[xubrew]

Big Tech (Twitter, facebook) is actively interfering in the election.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/twitter-locks-trump-campaign-account-less-than-3-weeks-before-presidential-election/

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/twitter-blacklists-links-to-house-gov-document/

If true, then they need to take action.

If Twitter locked the accounts because they violated a specifically stated policy, such as posting material that wasn't properly substantiated, then there isn't much they can do. But if it was properly substantiated and no policy was violated but Twitter took it down anyway, then I would imagine there would be quite a bit of recourse.

[Muskie in dayton]

If true, then they need to take action.

If Twitter locked the accounts because they violated a specifically stated policy, such as posting material that wasn't properly substantiated, then there isn't much they can do. But if it was properly substantiated and no policy was violated but Twitter took it down anyway, then I would imagine there would be quite a bit of recourse.

There's no doubt it's true given there are incriminating emails and pictures. The thing with Twitter is (from what I've seen) is they claim that the materials were obtained illegitimately. However if that were the case, they would also have banned posting on Trumps tax returns. They didn't. Double standard, plus their political bias and this certainly has the look of election meddling.

[xubrew]

There's no doubt it's true given there are incriminating emails and pictures. The thing with Twitter is (from what I've seen) is they claim that the materials were obtained illegitimately. However if that were the case, they would also have banned posting on Trumps tax returns. They didn't. Double standard, plus their political bias and this certainly has the look of election meddling.

Another question I have is the same one I oftentimes have with Trump....

If this is "fake news" then why isn't Biden going after them? I don't mean just emphatically denying it, but legit and legally going after them for printing false stories and making them retract it (and pay some hefty damages)???

[bjf123]

Joe will clear all this up in his townhall tonight..........:popcorn:

You’re assuming he’s even asked about it and not allowed to dodge it. I don’t expect any discussion of it at all. They’ll let him skate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cutterX]

Biden could literally shoot someone on 5th Ave and they'd still elect..........oh wait a minute, wrong guy.............

[xubrew]

Biden could literally shoot someone on 5th Ave and they'd still elect..........oh wait a minute, wrong guy.............

I don't know if Trump was the first one to figure this out, but he was the first one to say it and abide by it. And, he was absolutely right.

So if you're Joe Biden, if it happened, then why not just own it?? It doesn't matter. People are so entrenched into whatever camp they're in that almost ho one who supports him will stop supporting him even if all this is true.

[GoMuskies]

I'm with you 'brew. Just say that his son is a dog-faced pony soldier crackhead that was never getting anywhere in life without daddy's influence, so he used his influence to help his kid. And follow it up with....."I'm still not Trump". At least the honesty would be refreshing.

[xubrew]

I'm with you 'brew. Just say that his son is a dog-faced pony soldier crackhead that was never getting anywhere in life without daddy's influence, so he used his influence to help his kid. And follow it up with....."I'm still not Trump". At least the honesty would be refreshing.

Exactly!! And spectacularly stated!! You said it way better than I did!

[GoMuskies]

C-SPAN suspended its political editor Steve Scully today for lying about his Twitter account being hacked. He was supposed to moderate the Presidential debate that was supposed to happen tonight.

He accidentally tweeted for public view what clearly looked like it was supposed to be a direct message to Scaramucci.

[X Factor]

C-SPAN suspended its political editor Steve Scully today for lying about his Twitter account being hacked. He was supposed to moderate the Presidential debate that was supposed to happen tonight.

He accidentally tweeted for public view what clearly looked like it was supposed to be a direct message to Scaramucci.

Shocker. He worked for Biden years ago too. These are the people that are moderating presidential debates? The old "I was hacked" excuse never works. He IS a hack.

[noteggs]

This is my stance when I post moronic takes on this thread “I was hacked!”

[paulxu]

I'm with you 'brew. Just say that his son is a dog-faced pony soldier crackhead that was never getting anywhere in life without daddy's influence, so he used his influence to help his kid. And follow it up with....."I'm still not Trump". At least the honesty would be refreshing.

Ivanka, Eric and Junior are not pleased with your ideas.

[Muskie in dayton]

C-SPAN suspended its political editor Steve Scully today for lying about his Twitter account being hacked. He was supposed to moderate the Presidential debate that was supposed to happen tonight.

He accidentally tweeted for public view what clearly looked like it was supposed to be a direct message to Scaramucci.
The bigger problem was he then claimed it was someone who hacked his Twitter account. Then in admitting his lie, he refused to take responsibility for his own actions, but instead blamed “conservatives”. <<insert the meme of that hippie guy in Forest Gump blaming “That Damn Nixon” after he beat Ginny”.>> All the lefties that defended him as fair and honest when he was slated to moderate the second debate are now cleaning egg off their faces.

[xubrew]

Serious question....

Has there ever been a presidential race where this many of the key players' family members have endorsed the other side? First it was Trump's niece and now it's Giulani's daughter. What a time to be alive!!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/10/rudy-giulianis-daughter-on-voting-for-biden

[XU_Lou]

Wow, not a good week for the Democrats: Joe Biden crime family exposed, Nasty Nancy comes unglued on live TV (again), Big Tech busted for censorship and in-kind donations to Biden campaign, Kamala campaign comes down with the big "C", Steve Scully busted for lying, two Democrat governors knocked down in court for their draconian lockdown orders, multiple sex scandals rock Democrat NC Senate candidate, three days of Democrats showing themselves to be absolutely crazy and vicious on live TV (hello Mazie Hirono!!), and Amy Coney Barrett about to become a Supreme....

[bobbiemcgee]

Your boy had 4 superspreader events, put up fake ballot boxes, infected a bunch of people (34?) at the WH including his wife and son, asked for a bigger covid package and was turned down by his guy Mc Connell (ha) and assured 21 million Americans they would lose their healthcare as well as 130 million with pre-existing conditions. Then he turns around and badmouths Fauci. Sex Scandals? You wanna talk about the 17 women who accused trump and the two he paid off in violation of campaign finance laws? Oh Brother, you gotta problem there for sure.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump's healthcare plan- "2 weeks"......"2weeks"...2 weak:bleh::bleh::bleh:
The computer guy who thinks he saw Hunter is legally blind. What's your excuse.

[XU_Lou]

Trump's healthcare plan- "2 weeks"......"2weeks"...2 weak:bleh::bleh::bleh:
The computer guy who thinks he saw Hunter is legally blind. What's your excuse.

Cry for me a little more Bobbie....

[bobbiemcgee]

Sen Sasse comes clean on trump. Looks like he just found his balls:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/exclusive-gop-sen-sasse-says-trump-kisses-dictators-butts-mocks-evangelicals

[xubrew]

If true, then they need to take action.

If Twitter locked the accounts because they violated a specifically stated policy, such as posting material that wasn't properly substantiated, then there isn't much they can do. But if it was properly substantiated and no policy was violated but Twitter took it down anyway, then I would imagine there would be quite a bit of recourse.

I'm curious to see how much fire there is to this smoke. the NY Post comes off as more of a political tabloid than an actual news publication, but I still don't think they would just make stuff up. It's not on the level of some of these bogus websites that people build and are actually able to make them look like real news sites. I can see locking those accounts. The NY Post, while right leaning, isn't that. So, do Twitter and Facebook have actual reason to believe that it's made up or totally unsubstantiated, or are they just intentionally swinging left? The NY Post is standing by it. If nothing else, they seem to think there's enough 'there' there.

That, and I think we all just kinda knew that the Dems were gonna some how some way totally fuck this up.

[STL_XUfan]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1317044556328730625


@realdonaldtrump: Twitter Shuts Down Entire Network To Slow Spread Of Negative Biden News https://babylonbee.com/news/twitter-shuts-down-entire-network-to-slow-spread-of-negative-biden-news… (https://t.co/JPmjOrKPcr?amp=1) via @TheBabylonBee (https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee)
Wow, this has never been done in history. This includes his really bad interview last night. Why is Twitter doing this. Bringing more attention to Sleepy Joe & Big T

Big if true

[GoMuskies]

Trump tweeted out a Babylon Bee article unironically? I think he's trying to lose.

[xubrew]

Trump tweeted out a Babylon Bee article unironically? I think he's trying to lose.

Oh Thank You God!!! I needed this!!!

Things like this always make me feel a little bit better about myself because it reminds me that I'm not the only person that does things that are completely and totally idiotic!!

[bobbiemcgee]

Looks like the 'pubs have given up on Gardner in Colorado in the face of the blue tsunami. Early voting up 2400%.

[xubrew]

Does anyone else on here feel that Trump winning the election is exactly what Bobbie deserves and that Biden winning the election is exactly what XU_Lou deserves??

[GoMuskies]

Does anyone else on here feel that Trump winning the election is exactly what Bobbie deserves and that Biden winning the election is exactly what XU_Lou deserves??

Yes. And a meteor strike is what all of us deserve.

[bobbiemcgee]

4 years in the Caymans would be tough.

[GoMuskies]

I think one would get island fever pretty quickly down there. I mean, I'd be willing to test that hypothesis, though.

[noteggs]

Can you still consider it a town hall when the audience asks 10 questions and the moderator 43?

[paulxu]

Funny stuff from yesterdays debates/forums:
1 - Iowa senatorial debate featured questions about the current price of Soybeans and Corn
2 - NBC interviewer saying president is the president, not somebody's crazy uncle (could be fake news if he is somebody's crazy uncle)
3 - A reminder to go pick up the laptop I left at a Delaware repair shop...has a link to the Muskie chat board on it.

[Muskie in dayton]

Can you still consider it a town hall when the audience asks 10 questions and the moderator 43?
Lol. That may have sealed the Trump vote for my wife and daughter. They were both calling her a bitch through the TV. My wife says, I’m sick of everyone treating him like shit. She voted for Hillary.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yep, if you love the chaos, vote for trump.

“The depths of his dishonesty is just astounding to me. The dishonesty, the transactional nature of every relationship, though it’s more pathetic than anything else. He is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life.” - Gen. John Kelly

[X Factor]

He is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life.” - Gen. John Kelly

That tells me all I need to know about John Kelly. The hubris of a man to make that kind of judgement is astounding. The guy worked for Trump for how long? He did a piss poor job and got canned.

[X Factor]

Hunter and his convicted business partner Devon Archer were using their connections with Joe to set up meetings in the White House with communist aligned Chinese nationals. Joe has been selling his influence for years.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/16/exclusive-this-is-china-inc-emails-reveal-hunter-bidens-associates-helped-communist-aligned-chinese-elites-secure-white-house-meetings/

[bobbiemcgee]

FBI investigating for Russia disinformation. Do you believe Rudy? Hahah

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/16/hunter-biden-fbi-probing-if-new-york-post-story-tied-russia/3684342001/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-was-warned-giuliani-was-target-of-russian-disinformation-campaign/ar-BB1a6SaA?ocid=msedgdhp

[bobbiemcgee]

That tells me all I need to know about John Kelly. The hubris of a man to make that kind of judgement is astounding. The guy worked for Trump for how long? He did a piss poor job and got canned.

How about Mattis, Coats? Romney, Sasse? Colin Powell? McRaven ( the guy who led the fake news Bin Laden raid) Pretty much every reputable 'pub: All pos I assume.

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. - gen mattis

[X Factor]

How about Mattis, Coats? Romney, Sasse? Colin Powell? McRaven ( the guy who led the fake news Bin Laden raid) Pretty much every reputable 'pub: All pos I assume.

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. - gen mattis

You don't get it Bobbie. I don't give two you know what about what a bunch of career politicians and bureaucrats (because that's what Mattis and Powell are) think about Trump.

They are so insulated from the real world and the issues that we (conservatives) care about. All they care about is some utopia where they can hold hands with the other side and they all get along (politically speaking). Yeah, that would be nice, but I care about my freedoms and issues like abortion, the 2nd amendment, the 1st amendment, lower taxes, a strong economy, being able to raise my family how I want to without the government getting breathing down my neck, etc. Call me an ideologue, I don't care.

All they care about is having status and being liked by the people that can't stand what they supposedly stand for. They don't stand for anything because they look down on the average guy.

Trump is the first Republican in my lifetime (Reagan to an extent, but he was a way better communicator) who has actually stood up to the Democrats and did what he said he would do when he ran for office. I admit, he can be rough, has a big ego, and attacks his opponents, but that's why millions of Americans love the guy. He has nominated three fantastic justices to the Supreme Court, and appointed hundreds more to the lower courts. He's defended freedom of speech, the 2nd amendment, and the unborn. He's brokered peace deals for our biggest Middle East ally. He's been tougher on China than any president in years. He securing the border and greatly reducing the flow if illegal immigration. He understands a country can not survive without law and order. He's not getting us into any stupid wars and he's taking out terrorists when the opportunity is there.

For 3 1/2 years, he's dealt with the most hostile press towards a President this country has ever seen. Obama, for eight years, was worshipped by the same press.

Before Covid-19, the American economy was booming. There were fewer people on food stamps and welfare than had been in years. Every race and age group was seeing record unemployment. By every metric, he was putting policies in place to help businesses, large and small alike.

It's not Trump dividing us, it's the media. From the second he announced he was running for President, they have tried to take to take him down. They want a divided America. They can't stand people like me who support Trump. Wasn't it nice when we could support a candidate or President and not be called a racist, xenophobic, bigot, piece of shit, etc?

I'm done with this thread until after the election. See you on November 4th. (Reaching for my bottle of Buffalo Trace).

[XU_Lou]

You don't get it Bobbie. I don't give two you know what about what a bunch of career politicians and bureaucrats (because that's what Mattis and Powell are) think about Trump.

They are so insulated from the real world and the issues that we (conservatives) care about. All they care about is some utopia where they can hold hands with the other side and they all get along (politically speaking). Yeah, that would be nice, but I care about my freedoms and issues like abortion, the 2nd amendment, the 1st amendment, lower taxes, a strong economy, being able to raise my family how I want to without the government getting breathing down my neck, etc. Call me an ideologue, I don't care.

All they care about is having status and being liked by the people that can't stand what they supposedly stand for. They don't stand for anything because they look down on the average guy.

Trump is the first Republican in my lifetime (Reagan to an extent, but he was a way better communicator) who has actually stood up to the Democrats and did what he said he would do when he ran for office. I admit, he can be rough, has a big ego, and attacks his opponents, but that's why millions of Americans love the guy. He has nominated three fantastic justices to the Supreme Court, and appointed hundreds more to the lower courts. He's defended freedom of speech, the 2nd amendment, and the unborn. He's brokered peace deals for our biggest Middle East ally. He's been tougher on China than any president in years. He securing the border and greatly reducing the flow if illegal immigration. He understands a country can not survive without law and order. He's not getting us into any stupid wars and he's taking out terrorists when the opportunity is there.

For 3 1/2 years, he's dealt with the most hostile press towards a President this country has ever seen. Obama, for eight years, was worshipped by the same press.

Before Covid-19, the American economy was booming. There were fewer people on food stamps and welfare than had been in years. Every race and age group was seeing record unemployment. By every metric, he was putting policies in place to help businesses, large and small alike.

It's not Trump dividing us, it's the media. From the second he announced he was running for President, they have tried to take to take him down. They want a divided America. They can't stand people like me who support Trump. Wasn't it nice when we could support a candidate or President and not be called a racist, xenophobic, bigot, piece of shit, etc?

I'm done with this thread until after the election. See you on November 4th. (Reaching for my bottle of Buffalo Trace).

Amen brother - you nailed it squarely on the head!!

You can always tell when Bobbie has been watching MSNBC - he always comes on here with his irrelevant gotcha gimmicks - most of which are pure projection....

[bobbiemcgee]

You don't get it Bobbie. I don't give two you know what about what a bunch of career politicians and bureaucrats (because that's what Mattis and Powell are) think about Trump.

They are so insulated from the real world and the issues that we (conservatives) care about. All they care about is some utopia where they can hold hands with the other side and they all get along (politically speaking). Yeah, that would be nice, but I care about my freedoms and issues like abortion, the 2nd amendment, the 1st amendment, lower taxes, a strong economy, being able to raise my family how I want to without the government getting breathing down my neck, etc. Call me an ideologue, I don't care.

All they care about is having status and being liked by the people that can't stand what they supposedly stand for. They don't stand for anything because they look down on the average guy.

Trump is the first Republican in my lifetime (Reagan to an extent, but he was a way better communicator) who has actually stood up to the Democrats and did what he said he would do when he ran for office. I admit, he can be rough, has a big ego, and attacks his opponents, but that's why millions of Americans love the guy. He has nominated three fantastic justices to the Supreme Court, and appointed hundreds more to the lower courts. He's defended freedom of speech, the 2nd amendment, and the unborn. He's brokered peace deals for our biggest Middle East ally. He's been tougher on China than any president in years. He securing the border and greatly reducing the flow if illegal immigration. He understands a country can not survive without law and order. He's not getting us into any stupid wars and he's taking out terrorists when the opportunity is there.

For 3 1/2 years, he's dealt with the most hostile press towards a President this country has ever seen. Obama, for eight years, was worshipped by the same press.

Before Covid-19, the American economy was booming. There were fewer people on food stamps and welfare than had been in years. Every race and age group was seeing record unemployment. By every metric, he was putting policies in place to help businesses, large and small alike.

It's not Trump dividing us, it's the media. From the second he announced he was running for President, they have tried to take to take him down. They want a divided America. They can't stand people like me who support Trump. Wasn't it nice when we could support a candidate or President and not be called a racist, xenophobic, bigot, piece of shit, etc?

I'm done with this thread until after the election. See you on November 4th. (Reaching for my bottle of Buffalo Trace).

Millions of Americans also hate the guy. He was for abortion until he was against it. (changed parties 5 x). He had a deal with the Dems on gun control then it evaporated overnight (after NRA call). He put little kids and babies in cages. He got 3 nominees because people died or retired. He didn't have to do anything except make a couple of phone calls and send them to Mitch who wouldn't even give Garland a meeting. He suing to kill insurance for 21 million people during a pandemic and pretty soon a good portion of the country will be on food stamps and welfare with no insurance due to his lying about Covid-19. He ruining the environment and the water. Wants to drill for more unneeded oil and mine in the Alaskan refuge and BLM land where I like to camp. He's got 4% of the Black vote he's done so much for them. Ha. He cheats on his wives and lies,lies,lies. Guess that's ok with you. He could lie us into a nuclear war he's so dumb. The man is a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 20-30 x a day. You say you have kids. Do you really want them to grow up and be Trump? If so, very sad.
Anyway, I voted today (by mail, after he tried to fuck with the freaking post office to slow down votes).

[Bad Billy Pratt]

amazing how those who preach tolerance tend be the least tolerant of all......

[Xville]

Millions of Americans also hate the guy. He was for abortion until he was against it. (changed parties 5 x). He had a deal with the Dems on gun control then it evaporated overnight (after NRA call). He put little kids and babies in cages. He got 3 nominees because people died or retired. He didn't have to do anything except make a couple of phone calls and send them to Mitch who wouldn't even give Garland a meeting. He suing to kill insurance for 21 million people during a pandemic and pretty soon a good portion of the country will be on food stamps and welfare with no insurance due to his lying about Covid-19. He ruining the environment and the water. Wants to drill for more unneeded oil and mine in the Alaskan refuge and BLM land where I like to camp. He's got 4% of the Black vote he's done so much for them. Ha. He cheats on his wives and lies,lies,lies. Guess that's ok with you. He could lie us into a nuclear war he's so dumb. The man is a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 20-30 x a day. You say you have kids. Do you really want them to grow up and be Trump? If so, very sad.
Anyway, I voted today (by mail, after he tried to fuck with the freaking post office to slow down votes).

Wahhhhhhh!

[Muskie in dayton]

Millions of Americans also hate the guy. He was for abortion until he was against it. (changed parties 5 x). He had a deal with the Dems on gun control then it evaporated overnight (after NRA call). He put little kids and babies in cages. He got 3 nominees because people died or retired. He didn't have to do anything except make a couple of phone calls and send them to Mitch who wouldn't even give Garland a meeting. He suing to kill insurance for 21 million people during a pandemic and pretty soon a good portion of the country will be on food stamps and welfare with no insurance due to his lying about Covid-19. He ruining the environment and the water. Wants to drill for more unneeded oil and mine in the Alaskan refuge and BLM land where I like to camp. He's got 4% of the Black vote he's done so much for them. Ha. He cheats on his wives and lies,lies,lies. Guess that's ok with you. He could lie us into a nuclear war he's so dumb. The man is a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 20-30 x a day. You say you have kids. Do you really want them to grow up and be Trump? If so, very sad.
Anyway, I voted today (by mail, after he tried to fuck with the freaking post office to slow down votes).
Someone who changes parties and positions on issues shows they are an independent thinker. You should try that Bobbie. I know though, it's easier to let CNN tell you how to think.

As to the rest of this stuff, Fact check: Nonsensical drivel from a nincompoop who has been completely brainwashed by CNN/MSM.

[Muskie in dayton]

I have some free time so why not unpack this word salad.
Millions of Americans also hate the guy. MSM has spend 4 years fabricating false narratives against him, thus the level of hate. Look in the mirror Bobbie.
He was for abortion until he was against it. (changed parties 5 x). Good! See my post above.
He had a deal with the Dems on gun control then it evaporated overnight (after NRA call). That's how politics works. Not advocating, just saying.
He put little kids and babies in cages. That was Obama.
He got 3 nominees because people died or retired. That's the constitution.
He didn't have to do anything except make a couple of phone calls and send them to Mitch who wouldn't even give Garland a meeting. That too is the constitution.
He suing to kill insurance for 21 million people ACA is garbage and you know that. during a pandemic and pretty soon a good portion of the country will be on food stamps and welfare with no insurance due to his lying about Covid-19. The only reason people people would need government assistance is because of idiot governors (mostly Dems) who have shut their states down totally unnecessarily. And despite the overwhelming evidence that it is totally unnecessary keep them shut down. Why would they do this (rhetorical question)?
He ruining the environment and the water. No evidence of this.
Wants to drill for more unneeded oil and mine in the Alaskan refuge and BLM land where I like to camp. Oil is certainly not unneeded as long as we have gas powered cars. Drilling has minimal environmental impact.
He's got 4% of the Black vote he's done so much for them. Ha.https://140reasons.com/. Blexit.
He cheats on his wives and lies,lies,lies. Guess that's ok with you. The man is a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 20-30 x a day. Like every politician, sadly. At lease he's not compromised to hostile foreign governments due to his son's exploits.
He could lie us into a nuclear war he's so dumb. 4 years of peace and prosperity says otherwise.

Finally, why is it that no one advocates for Biden based on the virtues of Biden? It's all about the how bad Trump is. That speaks volumes.

[XU_Lou]

I have some free time so why not unpack this word salad.
Millions of Americans also hate the guy. MSM has spend 4 years fabricating false narratives against him, thus the level of hate. Look in the mirror Bobbie.
He was for abortion until he was against it. (changed parties 5 x). Good! See my post above.
He had a deal with the Dems on gun control then it evaporated overnight (after NRA call). That's how politics works. Not advocating, just saying.
He put little kids and babies in cages. That was Obama.
He got 3 nominees because people died or retired. That's the constitution.
He didn't have to do anything except make a couple of phone calls and send them to Mitch who wouldn't even give Garland a meeting. That too is the constitution.
He suing to kill insurance for 21 million people ACA is garbage and you know that. during a pandemic and pretty soon a good portion of the country will be on food stamps and welfare with no insurance due to his lying about Covid-19. The only reason people people would need government assistance is because of idiot governors (mostly Dems) who have shut their states down totally unnecessarily. And despite the overwhelming evidence that it is totally unnecessary keep them shut down. Why would they do this (rhetorical question)?
He ruining the environment and the water. No evidence of this.
Wants to drill for more unneeded oil and mine in the Alaskan refuge and BLM land where I like to camp. Oil is certainly not unneeded as long as we have gas powered cars. Drilling has minimal environmental impact.
He's got 4% of the Black vote he's done so much for them. Ha.https://140reasons.com/. Blexit.
He cheats on his wives and lies,lies,lies. Guess that's ok with you. The man is a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 20-30 x a day. Like every politician, sadly. At lease he's not compromised to hostile foreign governments due to his son's exploits.
He could lie us into a nuclear war he's so dumb. 4 years of peace and prosperity says otherwise.

Finally, why is it that no one advocates for Biden based on the virtues of Biden? It's all about the how bad Trump is. That speaks volumes.

Damn, that was like watching Xavier drill Morehead State in 2017!

[X-band '01]

Morehead hasn't recovered from that, nor have they ever recovered from former coach Sean Woods.

[paulxu]

Drilling has minimal environmental impact.

Don't let science stand in your way.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/even-if-injection-of-fracking-wastewater-stops-quakes-wont/

[X-band '01]

That article focuses mainly on Oklahoma - most of the earthquakes tied to fracking are usually magnitude 2 or 3, but there was one last decade that was a 5.6 - pretty significant for an area that previously didn't have many fault lines known to scientists.

You've got to be very careful where you do fracking - you certainly can't do that in seismically active zones on the West Coast, for example.

[paulxu]

I'm hoping we can return the rule of law to the Justice Department:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-10-14/william-barr-department-of-justice-doj

[Muskie in dayton]

Don't let science stand in your way.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/even-if-injection-of-fracking-wastewater-stops-quakes-wont/

Hey Paul, do you know what scientific field I have worked in for 25 years? Environmental science. Scientific American is biased liberal; their only science is political science.

[paulxu]

Yikes! You're saying that introducing all that wastewater into the Oklahoma ground for fracking did NOT cause the increase in earthquakes?
I mean really...are you saying that? They just sort of magically had a 900 fold increase in quakes.

Here, I'll help you out with a reference that will help:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-earthquakes-decrease-for-3rd-straight-year

[GoMuskies]

Simple solution. No more wastewater injection wells. We haven't felt an earthquake here in 5 years. They had become a pretty regular thing.

[bobbiemcgee]

Simple solution. No more wastewater injection wells. We haven't felt an earthquake here in 5 years. They had become a pretty regular thing.

I agree on the wastewater injection. nasty stuff. Biggest problem I have with fracking now is the companies go belly up after paying themselves huge bonuses and leave the site cleanup to us. They should escrow the cleanup funds before they even start the job.https://www.desmogblog.com/2020/10/15/bankruptcies-oil-gas-multi-billion-cleanup-bill-public
https://www.ecowatch.com/fracking-cleanup-costs-2641678836.html?rebelltitem=5#rebelltitem5

[noteggs]

He might be. Covid should tell you all you need to know about the accuracy of science and how it changes. Good thing we modify.

I applaud him because that’s his job.

[paulxu]

Simple solution. No more wastewater injection wells. We haven't felt an earthquake here in 5 years. They had become a pretty regular thing.

Either you are one of those crazy people who believe in science, or you stayed at Holiday Inn.

[bobbiemcgee]

Perhaps the biggest joke of the year is trump announcing "character counts week", which, of course he immediately violated at his superspreader events:

https://hillreporter.com/not-satire-trump-declares-national-character-counts-week-82577

"virus will go away".... 69k new infections yesterday. He's just adding more numbers to the total. Despicable.


K Bice republican running in 5th district Oklahoma on avg. 73k hospital covid stay:
People Don’t Need Insurance, They Can Just Pay Medical Bills With Savings

[X-band '01]

Either you are one of those crazy people who believe in science, or you stayed at Holiday Inn.

Now when you're really smart, you move on to a Holiday Inn Express.

[xubrew]

[/B]Finally, why is it that no one advocates for Biden based on the virtues of Biden? It's all about the how bad Trump is. That speaks volumes.

It does. It speaks volumes pretty much all the way around. If pretty much anyone else, and I mean ANYONE else, other than Trump were running as the Republican nominee, they would almost undoubtedly not only win the presidency, but probably go for the sweep. Again.

As it turns out, the Dems are looking like they'll win the presidency, and possibly even go for the sweep themselves. Their only platform? They are not Donald Trump. That's it! That's all they've got! And crazily enough, that may be all they need!

[paulxu]

Brew, I don't think from reading your posts that you are one that stays in an echo chamber.
But, the Democrats do have a platform, and Biden is constantly talking about these issues on the campaign trail; from health care to the environment, to the current pandemic.

https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/

When I listen to Trump campaigning, it seems like a laundry lists of grievances about how he is being mistreated, conspiracy theories, and attacking reasonable ideas like masks...while providing rallies with no social distancing. And the Republicans really have no platform for 2020, as they noted:


RESOLVED, That the2020 Republican National Convention will adjourn without adopting a new platform until the 2024 Republican National Convention;

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/docs/Resolution_Platform_2020.pdf

[xubrew]

Brew, I don't think from reading your posts that you are one that stays in an echo chamber.
But, the Democrats do have a platform, and Biden is constantly talking about these issues on the campaign trail; from health care to the environment, to the current pandemic.

https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/

When I listen to Trump campaigning, it seems like a laundry lists of grievances about how he is being mistreated, conspiracy theories, and attacking reasonable ideas like masks...while providing rallies with no social distancing. And the Republicans really have no platform for 2020, as they noted:


https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/docs/Resolution_Platform_2020.pdf

Thanks for sharing. Trump is mind-bogglingly awful, but to your point the Dems are doing more than just claiming to not be Trump. But, simply not being Trump is probably going to take them pretty far with or without the rest of the platform.

"The only way I can lose is if this election is rigged!" The guy really has no idea how badly he sucks.

Yes, the Dems are trying to rig the election by getting more people to vote for Biden! IT'S ALL A SCAM!!

The Dems could still blow it, though. I don't think there is anything that they are incapable of screwing up.

[bobbiemcgee]

trump called Dr. Fauci an idiot today after he pointed out mushroom dick hosted a superspreader event. I assume many here agree. His xray doc sez don't need to wear a mask. Twitter took it down.(false and misleading information that could cause great harm)
Meanwhile, trump leaves the idiot Fauci's out of context quote in his ad.

[paulxu]

Grifters gonna grift. Have no idea how these cities collect. Guess they'd have to waste money suing for what they're owed.


There’s also the not-so-little matter of the $80,000 the Trump campaign still owes the city from a 2016 rally, Romero noted. In addition, the estimated cost of “public safety response services” for Monday’s rally is $50,000, she wrote.


Trump’s campaign owes 14 cities across the nation some $1.82 million in unpaid bills for MAGA rallies stretching back to 2016, according to a report earlier this year from the nonprofit news operation Center for Public Integrity and NBC.

[Lamont Sanford]

Grifters gonna grift. Have no idea how these cities collect. Guess they'd have to waste money suing for what they're owed.

Maybe Hunter Biden could loan DJT the cash.

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe Hunter Biden could loan DJT the cash.

Or trump could write them a check from his chinese bank account.

[GoMuskies]

Note: at one point there was probably a better chance than not that Rudy Giuliani would become President of the United States.

[STL_XUfan]

Note: at one point there was probably a better chance than not that Rudy Giuliani would become President of the United States.

A steady diet of scotch combined with being technologically illiterate is not the best combination for success.

[xubrew]

Who would you vote for if there was a legit third party candidate??

Trump?, or
Biden?, or
President Skroob?

https://twentytwowords.com/mel-brooks-94-makes-his-first-ever-political-video-to-endorse-joe-biden-for-president/?add_slides=99&utm_content=buffer79f52&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=mq&fbclid=IwAR3E20mXY9yQDOi4XBsyn49GKEHP2LFfgJfu8vmbT 2N56KinryowuyUSE7w

[94GRAD]

Who would you vote for if there was a legit third party candidate??

Trump?, or
Biden?, or
President Skroob?

https://twentytwowords.com/mel-brooks-94-makes-his-first-ever-political-video-to-endorse-joe-biden-for-president/?add_slides=99&utm_content=buffer79f52&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=mq&fbclid=IwAR3E20mXY9yQDOi4XBsyn49GKEHP2LFfgJfu8vmbT 2N56KinryowuyUSE7w

It's good to be the King!

[xubrew]

Better horror movie....

Chapter 2 of IT, or tonight's debate???

[noteggs]

I think Tony Bobulinski is being more investigated by the MSM behind the scenes than either Joe or Hunter Biden right now. Just a hunch.

[bobbiemcgee]

Better horror movie....

Chapter 2 of IT, or tonight's debate???


I think Tony Bobulinski is being more investigated by the MSM behind the scenes than either Joe or Hunter Biden right now. Just a hunch.

Does anyone know somebody who is undecided at this point? 47 million have already voted.

[GoMuskies]

I think there is a not insignificant segment of the population who doesn't like either option and has not yet decided which option they dislike less.

[bobbiemcgee]

I think there is a not insignificant segment of the population who doesn't like either option and has not yet decided which option they dislike less.

So do you know anybody?

[Xville]

So do you know anybody?

I havent decided who I like less, which is one of the reasons I'm not voting.

[GoMuskies]

So do you know anybody?

Yes

[STL_XUfan]

Yes
Seems suspicious.

To confirm could you post their name, zip code, SSN, name of first childhood pet, and the CC number with expiration date and CVV number for at least 1 credit card with an available limit in excess of $15,000.00.

[bjf123]

Who would you vote for if there was a legit third party candidate??

Trump?, or
Biden?, or
President Skroob?

https://twentytwowords.com/mel-brooks-94-makes-his-first-ever-political-video-to-endorse-joe-biden-for-president/?add_slides=99&utm_content=buffer79f52&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=mq&fbclid=IwAR3E20mXY9yQDOi4XBsyn49GKEHP2LFfgJfu8vmbT 2N56KinryowuyUSE7w

Why didn’t anyone tell me my ass was so big?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

Constitutional Crisis question....

What happens if Biden drops out? People are already voting and reprinting all the ballots would be impossible. My guess is that Kamala Harris would take his place, but is it as simple as that? Technically, no one would have casted a vote for her as president unless they wrote her in. So...what happens?

[xu82]

A civil debate is somewhat disorienting! The threat of shutting off the microphone and embarrassing you for being an A-Hole makes this a better process. Hell, I don’t even watch ESPN anymore because I hate people shouting over each other. I think it reminds me too much of my wife’s giant Lebanese family!

[xubrew]

Joe Biden said we were on good terms with Hitler at first. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

When will Donald Trump finally explain the the actual specifics of his health care plan? No matter how pointedly he is asked about it, he never answers it.

[xu82]

Joe Biden said we were on good terms with Hitler at first. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

When will Donald Trump finally explain the the actual specifics of his health care plan? No matter how pointedly he is asked about it, he never answers it.

I think Hitler was like Mrs O’Leary’s cow, until........you know. Oops!

Trump will lay out the health care plan right after his tax returns come out.........which is to say............never.

[bobbiemcgee]

I think Hitler was like Mrs O’Leary’s cow, until........you know. Oops!

Trump will lay out the health care plan right after his tax returns come out.........which is to say............never.

yeah 2 weeks....2weeks...

[GoMuskies]

Trump benefits from low expectations. He seems almost sane tonight.

[bleedXblue]

Joe Biden said we were on good terms with Hitler at first. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

When will Donald Trump finally explain the the actual specifics of his health care plan? No matter how pointedly he is asked about it, he never answers it.

I think its pretty clear. He doesn't want broad socialized medicine and wants to leave it basically the way it is now.

[boozehound]

Trump benefits from low expectations. He seems almost sane tonight.

That was my reaction as well, particularly for the first hour of the debate. The mere fact that he stayed on topic and didn't try to physically take Joe Biden's microphone from him at any point in an attempt to continue speaking after he had been muted was a win for the Trump camp. It was a very low bar, but still - he cleared it. I think it's the inverse in some ways of the first debate in which Biden basically won by being able to speak in complete sentences and not having a stroke on the actual debate stage.

Other than that I don't think we really learned anything.

A few thoughts:

1. Hunter Biden is probably at least a little shady and almost certainly tried to benefit financially from being the VP's kid. It's unclear (and definitely unproven) if Joe had any knowledge or involvement. I'm not sure anyone really cares that much, though. Except people who are already voting for Biden.

2. Trump is at least a little shady and almost certainly has problematic overseas businesses and investments. This is doubly true for many of his close associates. I'm not sure anyone really cares that much though. Except people who are already not voting for Trump.

3. Trump is almost running as if he wasn't the sitting President, which is interesting. For example: attacking Biden / Obama for 'not getting more done' on Healthcare in 8 years, while never having actually laid out a plan for Healthcare himself despite 4 years in office spent trying to dismantle the ACA. Whether you like it or not, the ACA was probably the largest health care reform in a generation or more.

4. Biden had a much better command of talking points and strategy, however at times he tried too hard to bring things back to his key topics - mostly COVID and the Middle Class. Joe is definitely not a great debater or orator.

5. I think that Biden was at his best when he was talking about being a President for all Americans, which was a concept that Trump repeatedly seemed bewildered by. Trump sees the world in such a transactional, black and white, way that the concept of trying to help people who didn't vote for him literally baffles him.

6. I thought that the closing was probably Biden's best moment, and likely Trump's worst.

Note to the board's resident lunatics: I'm not following any twitter links to QAnon sources or any of that bullshit, so don't bother posting in response. You know who you are. I'm not responding to anyone that I don't think has the wherewithal to have a substantive discussion.

[paulxu]

I'm not convinced yet that the DOJ won't come out with something, anything really, to derail the process.
There's no question that Comey's remarks a week before the election had an impact, especially in the swing states.
Efforts this time to make a negative about Hunter (who's not on the ticket I don't think) aren't getting the same, widespread coverage/impact.
Will be an interesting final 11 days waiting for an October surprise that might get traction.

Took me an hour the other day to wait in line to vote. Lots of early voters this year in our county.

[GoMuskies]

The number of people on Twitter (and I'm sure elsewhere) who thought Trump was saying literal coyotes brought children across the border was a bit disturbing.

[bleedXblue]

The number of people on Twitter (and I'm sure elsewhere) who thought Trump was saying literal coyotes brought children across the border was a bit disturbing.

Yep, that what concerns me in general about this country.........and they have a vote just like you and me.

[xubrew]

That was my reaction as well, particularly for the first hour of the debate. The mere fact that he stayed on topic and didn't try to physically take Joe Biden's microphone from him at any point in an attempt to continue speaking after he had been muted was a win for the Trump camp. It was a very low bar, but still - he cleared it. I think it's the inverse in some ways of the first debate in which Biden basically won by being able to speak in complete sentences and not having a stroke on the actual debate stage.

Other than that I don't think we really learned anything.

A few thoughts:

1. Hunter Biden is probably at least a little shady and almost certainly tried to benefit financially from being the VP's kid. It's unclear (and definitely unproven) if Joe had any knowledge or involvement. I'm not sure anyone really cares that much, though. Except people who are already voting for Biden.

2. Trump is at least a little shady and almost certainly has problematic overseas businesses and investments. This is doubly true for many of his close associates. I'm not sure anyone really cares that much though. Except people who are already not voting for Trump.

3. Trump is almost running as if he wasn't the sitting President, which is interesting. For example: attacking Biden / Obama for 'not getting more done' on Healthcare in 8 years, while never having actually laid out a plan for Healthcare himself despite 4 years in office spent trying to dismantle the ACA. Whether you like it or not, the ACA was probably the largest health care reform in a generation or more.

4. Biden had a much better command of talking points and strategy, however at times he tried too hard to bring things back to his key topics - mostly COVID and the Middle Class. Joe is definitely not a great debater or orator.

5. I think that Biden was at his best when he was talking about being a President for all Americans, which was a concept that Trump repeatedly seemed bewildered by. Trump sees the world in such a transactional, black and white, way that the concept of trying to help people who didn't vote for him literally baffles him.

6. I thought that the closing was probably Biden's best moment, and likely Trump's worst.

Note to the board's resident lunatics: I'm not following any twitter links to QAnon sources or any of that bullshit, so don't bother posting in response. You know who you are. I'm not responding to anyone that I don't think has the wherewithal to have a substantive discussion.

Great assessment!

I do want to know what's on the laptop and have kind of been frustrated by the whole thing.

The story is rather outrageous, but that in and of itself doesn't mean that it isn't true. Hunter Biden brought a MacBook Air into a computer repair shot in Delaware at a time when he was supposedly living in another part of the country (I think). The guy fixes it, but Hunter never comes to get it. So, he scans the hard drive (why? we don't know) and finds all this incriminating stuff and decides to hand it over to the FBI (which I guess would make sense), but also makes a copy of it for himself (which, quite frankly, doesn't make any sense at all, but...whatever). The shop owner, I guess, couldn't understand why the FBI had not gotten followed up with him because...he...thought they should?? (no idea what was going on inside his head), so he takes the copy he made of the hard drive to Rudy Guliani's office because...(you know what? who knows why?). Guliani then takes the copied hard drive to the New York Post, and they begin to publish what's on it. Depending on who and what you believe, Guliani first went to Fox News, but Fox News wanted to first take some time to have a cyber forensics expert substantiate the contents of the hard drive before publishing it, so rather than wait Guliani went to the NY Post instead. The NY Post begins publishing the contents of the hard drive, other news outlets ask for a copy of the hard drive so they can examine it and report on it, but Guliani does not supply it to them. So, the other MSM leaves it alone, and is then blasted by those on the right for "covering it up."

Okay, that is a lot to accept on face value. Even if you believe that everything on the hard drive can be verified as belonging to Hunter Biden, you have to agree that you can't buy that story without being able to see the hard drive for yourself. But, having said that...

Biden has dismissed it as a smear campaign, but he hasn't come out and flatly denied it. Why? If this is made up, it shouldn't be all that hard to prove.

While most of the rest of the MSM did ask for the hard drive, they weren't exactly emphatically asking for it. Why not?? It seems to me they should have been saying "We want the hard drive! We will have a cyber forensics expert go through it, pull out everything that's on it and where it all came from and report all of it." But, they didn't. Were they afraid of what they might find?

Guliani didn't give it to anyone else. Why not? Wouldn't he want to be able to say "I gave you all the evidence, and you ignored it." Is he afraid of what they might find?

In short, I just want someone to go through the damn computer. It's a MacBook Air. We aren't exactly talking about something that has the infrastructure of whatever servers the Pentagon uses, and from all accounts we aren't exactly talking about someone who's all that savvy when it comes to technology. Why not just give it to the media and let them go through it? Or, why isn't the media conspicuously demanding it so they can go through it?

[nuts4xu]

I think Trump won the debate. What do you guys think?

I will hang up and listen.

BOOBS

[paulxu]

The only thing I can think is that Joe couldn't know what all crazy stuff his son was up to, so is not commenting.

Meanwhile, Hunter is still not on the ticket (I don't think).

And if Guiliani wanted to widely spread it and get credibility...why didn't he give a copy of the drive to all the other outlets?

[STL_XUfan]

Great assessment!

The story is rather outrageous, but that in and of itself doesn't mean that it isn't true. Hunter Biden brought a MacBook Air into a computer repair shot in Delaware at a time when he was supposedly living in another part of the country (I think).

You left off the best part, the guy who accepted the laptop is legally blind. "But the store's legally blind owner John Macissac was unable to identify whether the computer was dropped off by Hunter Biden." https://www.newsweek.com/hunter-bidens-laptop-probe-referred-fbi-delaware-state-police-say-1540818

[xubrew]

The only thing I can think is that Joe couldn't know what all crazy stuff his son was up to, so is not commenting.

Meanwhile, Hunter is still not on the ticket (I don't think).

And if Guiliani wanted to widely spread it and get credibility...why didn't he give a copy of the drive to all the other outlets?

This is a great question. I'd like for someone to corner him and ask him that question. But that's not happening, which raises another question. Why aren't any of the other media outlets cornering him and asking that question?

[boozehound]

This is a great question. I'd like for someone to corner him and ask him that question. But that's not happening, which raises another question. Why aren't any of the other media outlets cornering him and asking that question?

Corner who? Guiliani? I'm not sure he is exactly sitting down with 'unfriendly' media outlets for an open discussion. Hell, when Fox News wanted to perform a fact check he went shopping around for outlets that wouldn't.

The problem I have with the Hunter Biden laptop story is the litany of bizarre things that have to happen for it to be true, as you eloquently laid out above. That's a pretty convoluted set of circumstances. Who just abandons a MacBook air? Particularly if they are involved in shady dealings. I think Biden has pretty flatly denied it, but I'm not completely sure. I do think that they are trying to avoid going down the rabbit hole of specifically countering every wacky Trump conspiracy theory. I also can't imagine that Trump's DOJ wouldn't be ALL OVER this if it was credible.

Having said that: I wouldn't be particularly surprised if Hunter Biden was running around trying to profit off his Dad being the VP. I'm also not ultra worried about it in the context of this election. I also don't know if Joe Biden knew anything about what Hunter was up to while he was busy being the VP. What I really can't understand is how there is anybody who thinks this is a smoking gun, but all the Trump Russia, Trump taxes, etc. stuff is completely false. That's applying a completely different standard of proof based on what happens to confirm your bias.

[nuts4xu]

I don't care what was on Hunter Biden's hard drive, who he was smoking crack with, or the prostitutes he paid to be with him.

I don't see the relevance. Dude has some issues, and has made some very bad choices.

I also don't care about Trump's kids. None of them have anything to do with this election, or the ability of their old man to run the country.

[STL_XUfan]

This is a great question. I'd like for someone to corner him and ask him that question. But that's not happening, which raises another question. Why aren't any of the other media outlets cornering him and asking that question?

Are you discounting the excellent journalism from the 4th best journalist in all of Kazakhstan?

[noteggs]

This is a great question. I'd like for someone to corner him and ask him that question. But that's not happening, which raises another question. Why aren't any of the other media outlets cornering him and asking that question?

Why was Buzz Feed the only outlet to accept and publish the Steele dossier? Did other MSM outlets follow up with the own story without substantiation and quote the article? You bet. Heck the FBI even used it to falsely gain a FISA warrant on a US citizen. Is there any merit to Joe’s behavior in China or Ukraine as illegal? I don’t know.

The lack of journalistic investigation and interest in this story from MSM over the past year is far beyond head scratching. Oh I forgot the Biden campaign and legal council said there was no there there. Good enough for the press I guess.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe this year's "October surprise" will actually be good news for once.

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1319682278528876546?s=20

[paulxu]

Borat ( or his make believe daughter) is following up the story with Rudi in a hotel right now.

Meanwhile, if you want to blame the media for not following a story, the way not to do it is by refusing to give them a copy.
At least give them a copy...then accuse them of ignoring it.

[noteggs]

I see, so they need a copy of the hard drive for this individual story so they could’ve done there own investigations over the past year. Makes sense.

[paulxu]

Well, yeh. Or else you get this:

Question: why aren't you investigating the contents of the hard drive of Hunter Biden
Answer: what hard drive?
Question: the one Fox wouldn't report on so we gave it to the NYPost. Don't you want to investigate it?
Answer: OK, give us a copy to look at
Question: Why do you need to see it to investigate it?
Answer: WTF !

[boozehound]

Why was Buzz Feed the only outlet to accept and publish the Steele dossier? Did other MSM outlets follow up with the own story without substantiation and quote the article? You bet. Heck the FBI even used it to falsely gain a FISA warrant on a US citizen. Is there any merit to Joe’s behavior in China or Ukraine as illegal? I don’t know.

The lack of journalistic investigation and interest in this story from MSM over the past year is far beyond head scratching. Oh I forgot the Biden campaign and legal council said there was no there there. Good enough for the press I guess.

I'm confused on what your stance is here. Are you saying we shouldn't investigate whether the allegations are credible because the media didn't investigate the Steele Dossier 4 years ago? Was that the pee tape thing? I thought that got dismissed pretty quickly when no real evidence was brought to bear, other than people who hated Trump anyway and thought it would be great if there was actually a Pee Tape.


I see, so they need a copy of the hard drive for this individual story so they could’ve done there own investigations over the past year. Makes sense.

Are you asking why anyone should investigate whether the claims are true? I guess only if you want to to know. Maybe even the FBI if they are alleging a crime was committed. I'm certainly not just going to take Guiliani at his word for it, though.

[xubrew]

I see, so they need a copy of the hard drive for this individual story so they could’ve done there own investigations over the past year. Makes sense.

Yes. Not just yes, but OBVIOUSLY yes! I’m having a hard time coming up with why anyone would think otherwise.

[bobbiemcgee]

Wonder why Joe forgot to add that 3.5 million to his 22 released tax returns?

[paulxu]

Give me your phone number and address...and I'll send you a copy of the hard drive.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1319486885677453312

[XU_Lou]

Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett

No, Mr. President, we're not tired of winning....

[xubrew]

So will the Democrats add four or six new justices when they decide to pack the court?

[STL_XUfan]

So will the Democrats add four or six new justices when they decide to pack the court?
Just give Merrick Garland the hearing he was denied, and then appoint whatever 3L wins the Harvard 10k next spring.

[X-band '01]

What's ironic now is that the left will skip over Merrick Garland since he's more moderate and not a firebrand liberal.

Hell, I'd love to see him as a Trump appointee should he get a second term.

[bobbiemcgee]

No, Mr. President, we're tired of your whining.... fixed.

"We're not in control of the pandemic".......".it's contagious' Wow, they finally figured that out after 10 months.

[XU_Lou]

fixed.

"We're not in control of the pandemic".......".it's contagious' Wow, they finally figured that out after 10 months.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty....

[bobbiemcgee]

channeling tRUMP's p*ssy comments I see....

[xubrew]

Donald Trump has accused Borat of being a "phony guy." BOY! NOTHING GETS PAST OUR PRESIDENT!!!!

https://hollywoodlife.com/2020/10/25/donald-trump-sacha-baron-cohen-borat-prank/amp/

[paulxu]

I watched that film. Rudy is sorta creepy.

[Muskie in dayton]

Here's a gem. I have to admit, this one is swaying me back.
https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20)

[Xville]

Here's a gem. I have to admit, this one is swaying me back.
https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20)

It would be funny if it wasnt so true. The party of hypocrites.

[Xville]

https://www.axios.com/scoop-the-lincoln-project-is-becoming-a-media-business-f366aea2-d730-4ad3-a601-e8380ebf96e8.html

Grifters gonna grift, right Paul?

[paulxu]

Hah! If people are sending them money, it's not with a promise of having something sent back.

A grift is when you think Trump University will teach you something...especially if you weren't part of the settlement.

I'm gonna guess you know the difference.

[bobbiemcgee]

Here's a gem. I have to admit, this one is swaying me back.
https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20)

Now I get it. You get your news from an alcoholic, drug addicted, conspiracy theorist who got kicked off fox.

[Xville]

Hah! If people are sending them money, it's not with a promise of having something sent back.

A grift is when you think Trump University will teach you something...especially if you weren't part of the settlement.

I'm gonna guess you know the difference.

Sure...


"At some point, you’ve gotta respect the grift: Disgraced Bush admin neocons, whose influence within the GOP had eroded with each passing year of the Iraq War, managed to reinvent themselves on social media and become heroes to the libs by attacking the world they helped build," progressive journalist Walker Bragman similarly tweeted.




"One of the most impressively successful grifts in US politics in years: a bunch of failed, washed-up, discredited GOP lifers — many responsible for some of the worst sleaze of the Bush/Cheney era — re-branded themselves as #Resistance liberals and made themselves rich off them," The Intercept editor Glenn Greenwald reacted.

[paulxu]

Curious...who were some of these disgraced neocons?
You've still got the sleaze of Bush 1 back at the DOJ.

[paulxu]

There's grift...and then there's Grift.
Have no idea why people have enabled him all these years. (Read the niece's book)
But he is a master con man, I'll give him that.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/politics/trump-tax-records-chicago-loan/index.html

[Xville]

There's grift...and then there's Grift.
Have no idea why people have enabled him all these years. (Read the niece's book)
But he is a master con man, I'll give him that.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/politics/trump-tax-records-chicago-loan/index.html

Niece----grifter

CNN? Lol

[xubrew]

It would be funny if it wasnt so true. The party of hypocrites.

Both parties are hypocrites. The sooner people figure that out, the sooner we can start to bridge the divide. Both need to turn around and clean up their own hypocritical bullshit that's on their side of the fence instead of yelling about all the hypocritical bullshit that they see on the other side of the fence.

But the video was kinda funny.

[xubrew]

There's grift...and then there's Grift.
Have no idea why people have enabled him all these years. (Read the niece's book)
But he is a master con man, I'll give him that.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/politics/trump-tax-records-chicago-loan/index.html

Yes, he is. He announced his presidency by descending an escalator in a gold plated building and somehow made a base of working class people say "YES! THIS MAN UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE ME!!" I mean...you really do have to give him credit for being able to do that!

The reason con men are successful (at least for a time) is because the people who are being conned love the con. I've said this before, but the easiest people to lie to are the ones that want to believe the lies. That's true for everyone, though. Not just Trump supporters. I mean, there are probably still Bengals fans out there that think the team is gonna be good some day.

[boozehound]

Yes, he is. He announced his presidency by descending an escalator in a gold plated building and somehow made a base of working class people say "YES! THIS MAN UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE ME!!" I mean...you really do have to give him credit for being able to do that!

The reason con men are successful (at least for a time) is because the people who are being conned love the con. I've said this before, but the easiest people to lie to are the ones that want to believe the lies. That's true for everyone, though. Not just Trump supporters. I mean, there are probably still Bengals fans out there that think the team is gonna be good some day.

You clearly don't understand Trump. He is so pure and uncorrupt that all these disgraced career politicians are speaking out against him because he threatens their web of corruption. People that have dedicated their lives to honorable service of the Country like James Mattis and John Kelly are slimy swamp dwellers now, since they dared to speak out against Trump. There can only be Trump, and we must all trust in Trump. Amen.

That or people that have been conned will believe almost anything so that they don't have to accept that they have been conned.

[xubrew]

You clearly don't understand Trump. He is so pure and uncorrupt that all these disgraced career politicians are speaking out against him because he threatens their web of corruption. People that have dedicated their lives to honorable service of the Country like James Mattis and John Kelly are slimy swamp dwellers now, since they dared to speak out against Trump. There can only be Trump, and we must all trust in Trump. Amen.

That or people that have been conned will believe almost anything so that they don't have to accept that they have been conned.

Another reason that con men are able to succeed. And, I get it. It sucks to get conned. You don't like the thought of having let yourself get conned. So a lot of people out there just won't admit it to themselves.

Has Mexico finished paying for the wall yet? Are term limits in place yet? Has the virus magically disappeared yet the way it was supposed to on Easter?

[boozehound]

Another reason that con men are able to succeed. And, I get it. It sucks to get conned. You don't like the thought of having let yourself get conned. So a lot of people out there just won't admit it to themselves.

Has Mexico finished paying for the wall yet? Are term limits in place yet? Has the virus magically disappeared yet the way it was supposed to on Easter?

All of that has happened already. The Mainstream Media just isn't telling you about it. I have an underground twitter feed from a guy who calls himself GorillaNachos23 that has the real news that the msm isn't reporting. Biden and the Democrats did all of this to keep Trump from getting reelected.

In all seriousness my wife has a relative who is a straight-up con artist. As in - currently on trial and will likely go to jail for multiple counts of financial fraud. It's amazing the lengths some will go to in order to avoid just admitting that they were wrong about someone and got taken.

[Lamont Sanford]

Here's a gem. I have to admit, this one is swaying me back.
https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BlazeTV/status/1321247810688225280?s=20)

That is some seriously funny (and starkly true) shit there. Props.

[Xville]

All of that has happened already. The Mainstream Media just isn't telling you about it. I have an underground twitter feed from a guy who calls himself GorillaNachos23 that has the real news that the msm isn't reporting. Biden and the Democrats did all of this to keep Trump from getting reelected.

In all seriousness my wife has a relative who is a straight-up con artist. As in - currently on trial and will likely go to jail for multiple counts of financial fraud. It's amazing the lengths some will go to in order to avoid just admitting that they were wrong about someone and got taken.

At least Trump has only "conned" for three and a half years, the alternative is a con man who has been doing it in public office for 40 plus years, who has done zero in that time except continuing to get elected, which I guess is a feat.

[Muskie in dayton]

Now I get it. You get your news from an alcoholic, drug addicted, conspiracy theorist who got kicked off fox.
That's not news, it's humor. You should give it a try. Maybe you won't be so bitter.

[Smails]

https://www.axios.com/scoop-the-lincoln-project-is-becoming-a-media-business-f366aea2-d730-4ad3-a601-e8380ebf96e8.html

Grifters gonna grift, right Paul?

No, no ,no....this simply can't be. The LP is noble and fighting for the cause of getting Trump out of office in order to restore decency and respect to the american political system. There's just no way they are trying to get rich by pulling on the emotions of a perpetually offended electorate. Progressives are way to refined and educated to let themselves be manipulated. That's only something that can happen to Republicans because they're simple minded..right?

If Trump loses there are going to be a lot of media/activist types who are going to need to reinvent themselves because they are going to run out of material and money. These guys (all white guys) are just ahead of the curve. They are pure capitalists..nothing more.

[xubrew]

At least Trump has only "conned" for three and a half years, the alternative is a con man who has been doing it in public office for 40 plus years, who has done zero in that time except continuing to get elected, which I guess is a feat.

Many who have had business dealings with him would tell a very different story.

But, to your point, the most common con that most politicians pull off is convincing so many people that they care about them so they can get their votes. Trump blew this out of the water! It was amazing! He identified and connected with large groups of people who had been made to feel like they didn't matter (mostly by Democrats), and convinced them all that he cared about them. Anyone who wonders how he won the election (and how he might win it again), that's how. And, yeah, I'm sure it was awesome for those people to watch him turn the venom up to 11 when it came to attacking the other side. I'm sure it was fun watching the other side swing and miss whenever they tried to hit back (which is basically what happened every single time).

But other than giving his base something to point at, yell at, and laugh at in much the same way a high school bully does when he's picking on someone and everyone else is watching and laughing, what has he actually done? Is their healthcare better? Do they have better jobs? Have they been able to buy their own homes or are they mostly still renting and living paycheck to paycheck? What are the opportunities that exist for them now that didn't exist before Trump was president?? I'd be willing to guess that it's almost nothing. Trump was very honest and candid in one aspect. He behaved exactly the way he said he would and the way we all expected him to, and maybe for a lot of his supporters that's enough. But, if so, then that's really sad to think that we now live in a world where people are satisfied by simply watching a guy throw a bunch of shit around. That's basically all he's done. And the fact of the matter is he doesn't care about most of his base on any real personal level other than wanting their votes. He certainly didn't before, and I seriously doubt he does now. Whether it's today or whether it was 15 years ago had most of them even set foot in the lobby of one of his hotels or businesses, they would have been escorted out within minutes just for being there.

[94GRAD]

No, no ,no....this simply can't be. The LP is noble and fighting for the cause of getting Trump out of office in order to restore decency and respect to the american political system. There's just no way they are trying to get rich by pulling on the emotions of a perpetually offended electorate. Progressives are way to refined and educated to let themselves be manipulated. That's only something that can happen to Republicans because they're simple minded..right?

If Trump loses there are going to be a lot of media/activist types who are going to need to reinvent themselves because they are going to run out of material and money. These guys (all white guys) are just ahead of the curve. They are pure capitalists..nothing more.

SNL had a commercial about this exact problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bII8AH5t6zI

[noteggs]

I'm confused on what your stance is here. Are you saying we shouldn't investigate whether the allegations are credible because the media didn't investigate the Steele Dossier 4 years ago? Was that the pee tape thing? I thought that got dismissed pretty quickly when no real evidence was brought to bear, other than people who hated Trump anyway and thought it would be great if there was actually a Pee Tape.



Are you asking why anyone should investigate whether the claims are true? I guess only if you want to to know. Maybe even the FBI if they are alleging a crime was committed. I'm certainly not just going to take Guiliani at his word for it, though.

I brought up the Steele dossier because it was unverified and the press had no problem what so ever to jump all over the buzzfeed article with their own take and no it didn’t die quickly. Heck just google “2017 CNN Steele dossier”. Also, CNN won a WHCA award for all of its “informative” coverage. This is a stark contrast on how the press has handled the Bidens business dealings.

Where did the Steele dossier actually come from? Hillary’s own opposition research firm Fusion GPS then leaked to Buzzfeed (James Clapper leaked information to CNN). Yes it’s true that Fusion GPS worked with Rubio’s campaign during the GOP primary, but that was before they hired Steele in April of 2016. So are people on this board now saying the press has now found integrity and values 3 years later? Or is it because the hard drive article is about a Democratic candidate who has been given a free pass over the last year for his potential involvement with China and Ukraine?

More disturbing, the FBI used this information to get an illegal FISA warrant on a US citizen. Both Rosenstein and Comey said the Dossier shouldn’t have been used and noted they knew it originated from her campaign and the DNC.

Bottom line wish press would have vetted this whole Ukraine and China stuff a long time ago versus Joe, campaign, his lawyers said it wasn’t so. If Biden gets elected and Republicans hold the Senate, it’s just going to be another shit show we’ve seen over the last four years with hearings. Well that’s probably going to happen anyway.

[xubrew]

And, almost on cue, a White House Press Release where the Trump Administration is credited for ending the COVID 19 pandemic.

WOW!! I mean...HOLY SHIT!!

Even among con men, this guy stands out. If you believe that the pandemic is now over and that Trump ended it, then you have been conned. BIG TIME!!

See about half way down...

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000

[boozehound]

And, almost on cue, a White House Press Release where the Trump Administration is credited for ending the COVID 19 pandemic.

WOW!! I mean...HOLY SHIT!!

Even among con men, this guy stands out. If you believe that the pandemic is now over and that Trump ended it, then you have been conned. BIG TIME!!

See about half way down...

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000

Right. Do we honestly even need to continue this conversation, or can we just shut it down now?

Things a getting pretty Orwellian at this point. Wasn't their final and most important command that you not believe your eyes and ears?

[GoMuskies]

Congrats to all on the end of the pandemic!

[X-man]

Curious...who were some of these disgraced neocons?
You've still got the sleaze of Bush 1 back at the DOJ.

Here's a couple: Bill Kristol, Max Boot

[Strange Brew]

Question: Should Trump pack the court with 3 more Justices if he wins and the Rs hold the Senate?

[xubrew]

Question: Should Trump pack the court with 3 more Justices if he wins and the Rs hold the Senate?

Well, Trump would need both the House and the Senate, which isn't likely, but....Sure. Why not? The relationships between the two parties are already broken beyond repair anyway, so why not??

It will allow for an even number, which means for a lower court's ruling to be overturned, you'd need to win by 2. Sounds better to me.

It would also allow for the Supreme Court to sort of work like how some states run their courts of appeals. Have panels of 3 or 4 rule on cases instead of all 12 needing to rule on all cases. Have the Chief Justice decide which ones go to sub committees and which ones are heard by all 12.

In a legit election if the Reps win the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, then I think that is a strong vote of confidence from the people, and expanding the Supreme Court in a such a way would be a reflection of that.

But, if the Dems go for the sweep and pack the court, then one could also state that them making a decision to pack the court is also a reflection of the will of the people.

[paulxu]

Here's a couple: Bill Kristol, Max Boot

I use to follow Kristol and the Weekly Standard to try and understand Republican thought process, and as you might suspect, disagreed strongly with many of their policy positions...especially the WMD nonsense about Iraq.
Similarly, I would read George Will for a more in-depth analysis of the party's stance on issues.

That these types of people recognize their party has been taken over by the Trump racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny...and they are trying to reach real conservatives for a re-making of their party, actually gives me some hope for the future of the country.

[GoMuskies]

I follow The Bulwark on Twitter for some reason. It sounded interesting when I signed up. It's TUR-RI-BLE. Those guys have worse Trump Derangement Syndrome than Gary Griffin's sister.

[Xville]

I use to follow Kristol and the Weekly Standard to try and understand Republican thought process, and as you might suspect, disagreed strongly with many of their policy positions...especially the WMD nonsense about Iraq.
Similarly, I would read George Will for a more in-depth analysis of the party's stance on issues.

That these types of people recognize their party has been taken over by the Trump racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny...and they are trying to reach real conservatives for a re-making of their party, actually gives me some hope for the future of the country.

You actually believe this? Wow. I mean the Trump part ok whatever but that they are trying to reach real conservatives part is a load of bs

[chico]

I follow The Bulwark on Twitter for some reason. It sounded interesting when I signed up. It's TUR-RI-BLE. Those guys have worse Trump Derangement Syndrome than Gary Griffin's sister.

I signed up for their emails, which was a mistake. They've mastered the art of saying the same thing 45 different ways. I am certainly no fan of the President, but you're right, those guys take it to a whole other lever.

[XU 87]

I use to follow Kristol and the Weekly Standard to try and understand Republican thought process, and as you might suspect, disagreed strongly with many of their policy positions...especially the WMD nonsense about Iraq.
Similarly, I would read George Will for a more in-depth analysis of the party's stance on issues.

That these types of people recognize their party has been taken over by the Trump racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny...and they are trying to reach real conservatives for a re-making of their party, actually gives me some hope for the future of the country.

LOL. Your tag line should be, "Anyone who disagrees with me is either a racist, xenophobe, misogynist, or homophobe, or a combination of all four." In fact, that should be your party's tag line along with, "We don't tolerate anyone who thinks differently from us."

[noteggs]

LOL. Your tag line should be, "Anyone who disagrees with me is either a racist, xenophobe, misogynist, or homophobe, or a combination of all four." In fact, that should be your party's tag line along with, "We don't tolerate anyone who thinks differently from us."

That was just a moniker given to conservatives every two years around election time. Guess it’s 365 now.

[paulxu]

You're dead on. I have grown weary of tolerating racism, bigotry, etc.
Guess I'm getting old and crotchety.

[paulxu]

I follow The Bulwark on Twitter for some reason. It sounded interesting when I signed up. It's TUR-RI-BLE. Those guys have worse Trump Derangement Syndrome than Gary Griffin's sister.

Hah! I don't even know what that is, but you need a break there in Wichita. Try following Greg Marshall's antics.

[GoMuskies]

I just voted. I wrote in Gregg Marshall!

Just kidding. You know my allegiance is to Lynn Marshall!

[GoMuskies]

By the way, here are the folks who make up the Bulwark, including the aforementioned Billy Kristol.

https://thebulwark.com/about-us/

[XU 87]

You're dead on. I have grown weary of tolerating racism, bigotry, etc.
Guess I'm getting old and crotchety.

No, you're just intolerant and like other leftists, don't make arguments using facts. You instead resort to arguing your narrative that is grounded in fiction and fantasy.

I will add- calling those who disagree with you "bigots" and "xenophobes" and "homophobes" does not demonstrate that you are against those things. It just demonstrates you call people names with the hope that these people will then shut up.

[boozehound]

No, you're just intolerant and like other leftists, don't make arguments using facts. You instead resort to arguing your narrative that is grounded in fiction and fantasy.

I would think you would have to at least recognize the irony in your statement that 'leftists' resort to arguing a narrative grounded in fiction and fantasy considering the fact that today the White House claimed to have 'ended COVID-19'. The entire conservative narrative right now seems to be largely grounded in fantasy.

[XU 87]

I would think you would have to at least recognize the irony in your statement that 'leftists' resort to arguing a narrative grounded in fiction and fantasy considering the fact that today the White House claimed to have 'ended COVID-19'. The entire conservative narrative right now seems to be largely grounded in fantasy.

Your post is a good example of liberal narrative fantasy. We all know the White House press release was wrong. No one is claiming Covid is over, not even the WH, who now says the release was "poorly worded". It was a stupid sloppily written press release, but now you want to argue, "SEE, SEE!! Conservatives think Covid has ended!!!"

[Smails]

That these types of people recognize their party has been taken over by the Trump racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny...and they are trying to reach real conservatives for a re-making of their party, actually gives me some hope for the future of the country.

My god do you actually believe that? You mean the Trump racism that passed The First Step Act or the Trump misogyny that just had a female confirmed to SCOTUS? Or the Trump homophobia that shows 40-45% of gay men are planning on voting for him(recent poll by Hornet)? How about the Trump xenophobia that has Trump trailing Biden by 7% when it come to the latino male vote?

I get that you don't like DJT (I'm not a fan either) but the narrative that the party has been co-opted by these Trump 'phobias' is patently false and incredibly lazy.

[xubrew]

I just voted. I wrote in Gregg Marshall!

Just kidding. You know my allegiance is to Lynn Marshall!

Okay, there is someone out there that's far less fit for office than Trump.



Your post is a good example of liberal narrative fantasy. We all know the White House press release was wrong. No one is claiming Covid is over, not even the WH, who now says the release was "poorly worded". It was a stupid sloppily written press release, but now you want to argue, "SEE, SEE!! Conservatives think Covid has ended!!!"

Not exactly. It's that so many people are willing to follow a guy that routinely makes statements that are crazy, bizarre, and totally false. Not to mention divisive.



My god do you actually believe that? You mean the Trump racism that passed The First Step Act or the Trump misogyny that just had a female confirmed to SCOTUS? Or the Trump homophobia that shows 40-45% of gay men are planning on voting for him(recent poll by Hornet)? How about the Trump xenophobia that has Trump trailing Biden by 7% when it come to the latino male vote?

I get that you don't like DJT (I'm not a fan either) but the narrative that the party has been co-opted by these Trump 'phobias' is patently false and incredibly lazy.

You have a point. Regardless of what side people are on, the Left or the Right, they're probably only getting a very jaded and slanted view of the other side. Over and over and over again. The over-saturation, along with the idea that it's easy for people to believe the things that they want to believe has people on the left thinking everyone who supports Trump is a Nazi, and people on the right thinking that everyone who supports Biden also supports rioting, hates America, and those that are really far out there believing that it's all part of a conspiracy involving pedophiles that are led by Hillary Clinton.

The reality is...that's not the reality. Yet, people continue to soak up the poison.

I think Trump is grossly unqualified and totally full of shit even by politician standards. I also believe that as the senate majority leader Mitch McConnell acted in a way that was totally unprecedented in American history in order to push his own agenda. I'm not just talking about the Supreme Court, but the over 100 judicial nominations to the district courts and the court of appeals that were made by Obama and that were never called to a vote, and the over 450 pieces of legislation that passed through the House but were never called for a vote. No one has done that, ever. And I think that if the Dems go for the sweep (which they have a good chance of doing) that unprecedented act will receive an unprecedented response.

But, while xenophobes, racists, and homophobes will probably vote Republican, I also don't think that's representative of most Republicans. The lunatics who actually do want to overthrow the country (or some variation of that) will likely vote Democrat, but that's not representative most Democrats.

In short, and I say this from someone who is kind of in the middle here, both sides are actually kinda fucked up and we'd all be better off if they'd actually do more to shout down the lunatic fringe that exists in both their camps.

[boozehound]

Your post is a good example of liberal narrative fantasy. We all know the White House press release was wrong. No one is claiming Covid is over, not even the WH, who now says the release was "poorly worded". It was a stupid sloppily written press release, but now you want to argue, "SEE, SEE!! Conservatives think Covid has ended!!!"

The mental gymnastics that you guys have to do to support Trump kills me. Trump does nothing but push a narrative based in fantasy. He is the best at everything. His crowds are always the largest ever. COVID is going to go away - in fact, It's almost gone. That's just a few, without getting into some of the wackier stuff that he has retweeted or referenced.

But, the biggest fantasy of all is the ruse that this is somehow a competent administration. Hell - the logic you just used was that it was a stupid sloppily written press release. We are in year 4 of this administration and they can't proofread a press release? They were supposed to be the best at everything! They weren't career politicians - they are business people.

I get it: Trump gets the benefit of the doubt 100% of the time.

"Sure Trump is inexperienced, but he will surround himself with the best and most qualified people. See! Look at James Mattis!"
"James Mattis is just butthurt because Trump fired him. He is lying. Also he might be a Democrat, but we aren't sure"

There is literally no limit to what you can't justify if you just allow yourself to slip into that sweet, sweet fantasy world.

[boozehound]

I think Trump is grossly unqualified and that as the senate majority leader Mitch McConnell acted in a way that was totally unprecedented in American history in order to push his own agenda. I'm not just talking about the Supreme Court, but the over 100 judicial nominations to the district courts and the court of appeals that were made by Obama and that were never called to a vote, and the over 450 pieces of legislation that passed through the House but were never called for a vote. No one has done that, ever. And I think that if the Dems go for the sweep (which they have a good chance of doing) that unprecedented act will receive an unprecedented response.

But, while xenophobes, racists, and homophobes will probably vote Republican, I also don't think that's representative of most Republicans. The lunatics who actually do want to overthrow the country (or some variation of that) will likely vote Democrat, but that's not representative most Democrats.

In short, and I say this from someone who is kind of in the middle here, both sides are actually kinda fucked up and we'd all be better off if they'd actually do more to shout down the lunatic fringe that exists in both their camps.

100% agree.

I don't really think Trump is particularly racist or sexist, however I also don't think that the fact that he appointed a female to the Supreme Court or passed a piece of legislature disqualifies him from being racist or sexist. It sounds like the "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" argument. I do think Trump is wholly transactional. If racist groups support him, he will play to them. If xenophobes support him, he will play to it. He does that because he has no actual principles, other than he is the best and anything he decides at a given moment is true. I believe it was John Kelly who referred to him as "the most flawed human being he has ever met". That's probably about right. I can only imagine that shit that guy saw.

[paulxu]

The White House science office lists "ending the Covid-19 pandemic" as one of the top accomplishments of the Trump administration's first term despite the fact that new coronavirus cases are rising precipitously throughout the country, resulting in many hospitals nationwide approaching maximum capacity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/27/white-house-lists-ending-covid-19-pandemic-as-trump-accomplishment/#4ceec57b1034

They need more proof readers at the White House.

[bobbiemcgee]

Kushner: Trump had to take the country 'back from the doctors'

"In newly released audio, President Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner told journalist Bob Woodward in mid-April that Trump had cut out the doctors and scientists advising him on the unfolding Covid-19 pandemic."

This is what happens when you appoint a spoiled little rich kid as a Sr. Advisor. Coupled with trump saying the Doctors were ripping off the public with covid treatments, i don't think they'll be getting a lot of votes from the medical community.

[Strange Brew]

Just voted today. Sorry Bobbie, I likely balanced out your vote.

[Muskie in dayton]

That these types of people recognize their party has been taken over by the Trump racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny...and they are trying to reach real conservatives for a re-making of their party, actually gives me some hope for the future of the country.
Huh, interesting. The reason I’ve gravitated toward the Republican Party is because the Democrats have become completely intolerant of other beliefs. There’s also an element of anti-gay and anti-Semitic. Maybe I need some more mainstream media brainwashing.

[bobbiemcgee]

Just voted today. Sorry Bobbie, I likely balanced out your vote.

Don't think we will have to worry about that in CO. Besides, my whole family voted blue.

[XU 87]

The mental gymnastics that you guys have to do to support Trump kills me. Trump does nothing but push a narrative based in fantasy. He is the best at everything. His crowds are always the largest ever. COVID is going to go away - in fact, It's almost gone. That's just a few, without getting into some of the wackier stuff that he has retweeted or referenced.

But, the biggest fantasy of all is the ruse that this is somehow a competent administration. Hell - the logic you just used was that it was a stupid sloppily written press release. We are in year 4 of this administration and they can't proofread a press release? They were supposed to be the best at everything! They weren't career politicians - they are business people.

I get it: Trump gets the benefit of the doubt 100% of the time.

"Sure Trump is inexperienced, but he will surround himself with the best and most qualified people. See! Look at James Mattis!"
"James Mattis is just butthurt because Trump fired him. He is lying. Also he might be a Democrat, but we aren't sure"

There is literally no limit to what you can't justify if you just allow yourself to slip into that sweet, sweet fantasy world.

Now where did I say I was supporting Trump's supposed "claim" that Covid was over? Again, more fantasy from you. In fact, I don't particularly like Trump. My point is that you liberals are incapable of engaging in fact based discussion. You have your narratives based on fiction, and anyone who disagrees with you is declared a racist or homophobe or some other name. Paul said as much. And you agree with him.

[paulxu]

I'm confused about why my narratives are based on fiction.
They're based on Trump's words and actions. And that doesn't count the dog whistle comments.
When you put a ban on Muslim countries, and tell US Congresswomen to “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” ..that's xenophobia.

So, let's have a "fact based" discussion. Those are facts.
My conclusion is that a person who feels that way is xenophobic.
What am I missing?

[boozehound]

Now where did I say I was supporting Trump's supposed "claim" that Covid was over? Again, more fantasy from you. In fact, I don't particularly like Trump. My point is that you liberals are incapable of engaging in fact based discussion. You have you're narratives based on fiction, and anyone who disagrees with you is declared a racist or homophobe or some other name. Paul said as much. And you agree with him.

I don't see where I agreed with Paul. In fact, I posted something right below the post that you quoted that would be considered somewhat contradictory Paul's theory. Oddly enough that didn't really get addressed. Nor were any of my other points addressed.

It's hard to have a balanced discussion with someone who is going to pick and choose individual snippets and put words in people's mouths. You claim that 'you liberals are incapable of engaging in fact based discussion' which suggests to me that you view the world through a black and white lens in which 100MM+ 'Liberals' are painted with a broad brush as 'bad'. That is a world view I can't wrap my head around.

I'm happy to engage in a substantive back and forth with anybody on this board (or anywhere else) assuming that someone seeks to actually engage in a substantive back and forth, rather than debate semantics and specific snippets of a larger argument without addressing the overall argument. To that end I'm removing myself from this conversation.