Politics Thread

[XU_Lou]

So you gravitate toward even more biased and less credible reporting that confirms your bias? That's the part I don't get - I completely agree with you that the media should strive for objectivity at all times. They will never be completely free of bias though (nothing is).

Which 'actual, real story' should the MSM be covering? The one about Dr. Fauci's fastball?

Oh, you are probably talking about the Louie Gohmert story. I can take a stab at that one. Every day hundreds of potentially newsworthy things happen. Louie Gohmert is a Representative of a rural district in East Texas who has a rich history of making ridiculous statements and introducing ridiculous legislature that is doomed to fail. He also more than dabbles in conspiracy theories. The only people who think this is news are people who are obsessed with 'sticking it to the libs'.

Good grief, disparaging the source of a story is soooo tired and lame... it's about as tired and lame as when you all call us racists for something you disagree with....

[Juice]

Maybe you should watch the eulogy of Senator Robert Byrd - all the current Democrats had high praise for this Democrat Senate Majority Leader - who was once an Exalted Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan. Yea, so don't pretend that racism within the highest reaches of the Democrat Party was all that long ago. In fact, the racism of the party has shifted from blacks to whites in the last few years.

Biden called Byrd a mentor and a friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BQNEAFlfmQ

[xuphan]

Biden called Byrd a mentor and a friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BQNEAFlfmQ

It’s obvious this country needs a third major political party.

[Muskie in dayton]

So you gravitate toward even more biased and less credible reporting that confirms your bias? That's the part I don't get

First, I repeat, it's not my bias. I have some conservative views, I have some liberal views, I have some views that make both sides' heads explode. I don't care if small news outlets have a bias, as long as they own it.

My problem is with the Mainstream Media, which claims to be fair an honest but is anything but. People who blissfully ignorant, which is most, have CBS/NBC/ABC evening news come on while they're at the dinner table. They trust it to be fair and honest because that's what news always was for years, and they get fed bullshit. That's the issue.

[Muskie in dayton]

It’s obvious this country needs a third major political party.
Amen to that.

[X-man]

First, I repeat, it's not my bias. I have some conservative views, I have some liberal views, I have some views that make both sides' heads explode. I don't care if small news outlets have a bias, as long as they own it.

My problem is with the Mainstream Media, which claims to be fair an honest but is anything but. People who blissfully ignorant, which is most, have CBS/NBC/ABC evening news come on while they're at the dinner table. They trust it to be fair and honest because that's what news always was for years, and they get fed bullshit. That's the issue.

Isn't it Fox that bogusly claims that it is "fair and balanced"? And BTW, I would argue that a truly unbiased newspaper is the Wall Street Journal. While I disagree with most of their opinion people, their journalism is absolutely first rate.

[Muskie in dayton]

Isn't it Fox that bogusly claims that it is "fair and balanced"? And BTW, I would argue that a truly unbiased newspaper is the Wall Street Journal. While I disagree with most of their opinion people, their journalism is absolutely first rate.
Re: Fox news, I couldn't tell you. I never watch it or any of the cable news channels. They actually are worse than the MSM. I agree the Wall Street Journal is excellent. I also think the news channels in the Cincinnati market are fair, but they don't hit the hard issues much.

[XU_Lou]

Looks like racism will officially become part of the Democrat Party platform (actually they're just codifying it now):

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/24/nolte-draft-dnc-platform-declares-white-americans-too-rich-too-privileged-and-too-evil/

[noteggs]

So you gravitate toward even more biased and less credible reporting that confirms your bias? That's the part I don't get - I completely agree with you that the media should strive for objectivity at all times. They will never be completely free of bias though (nothing is).

Which 'actual, real story' should the MSM be covering? The one about Dr. Fauci's fastball?

Oh, you are probably talking about the Louie Gohmert story. I can take a stab at that one. Every day hundreds of potentially newsworthy things happen. Louie Gohmert is a Representative of a rural district in East Texas who has a rich history of making ridiculous statements and introducing ridiculous legislature that is doomed to fail. He also more than dabbles in conspiracy theories. The only people who think this is news are people who are obsessed with 'sticking it to the libs'.

You know I don’t mind slanted sources on either side because it gives me an opportunity to dig into the subject to find its validity. I like to find interesting stories that I may or may not agree politically. That way you don’t live in your own political bubble.

Unfortunately for me, MSM tries to create a narrative to fit their agenda. I’ve seen this trend long before Trump was elected as I’ve recently stated. Sure you can say 1,000 stories can be reported on any day which is true, but when they do seem to be slanted for one political party. Last time I checked MSM’s political affiliations, only 7% claimed to be Republicans. This doesn’t mention the disparity in political donations. We would have to be pretty naive to think this doesn’t drive a slight bias.

The reason I bring all this up, I can’t blame right leaning folks for utilizing some right leaning sources because sometimes that’s all they got.

[bjf123]

Isn't it Fox that bogusly claims that it is "fair and balanced"? And BTW, I would argue that a truly unbiased newspaper is the Wall Street Journal. While I disagree with most of their opinion people, their journalism is absolutely first rate.

I would at least argue their news coverage is more balanced. Their talking head shows are clearly conservative. Sadly, too many people think shows like Hannity, Don Lemon, Rachel Maddow, etc., are news when they’re anything but.

I remember reading about a study some university journalism program did of TV news coverage of either the W vs Kerry election or Obama vs McCain. They rated each news story, again not opinion stories, as either positive or negative towards the candidate. Fox was actually “fair and balanced” at that time, with the same ratio of positive vs negative stories about each candidate. CNN was next but had slightly more positive stories about the Democratic candidate and slightly more negative stories about the Republican candidate. MSNBC was the worst by far, with something Iike 70/30 in favor of the Democrat and 75/25 negative towards the Republican.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[boozehound]

You know I don’t mind slanted sources on either side because it gives me an opportunity to dig into the subject to find its validity. I like to find interesting stories that I may or may not agree politically. That way you don’t live in your own political bubble.

Unfortunately for me, MSM tries to create a narrative to fit their agenda. I’ve seen this trend long before Trump was elected as I’ve recently stated. Sure you can say 1,000 stories can be reported on any day which is true, but when they do seem to be slanted for one political party. Last time I checked MSM’s political affiliations, only 7% claimed to be Republicans. This doesn’t mention the disparity in political donations. We would have to be pretty naive to think this doesn’t drive a slight bias.

The reason I bring all this up, I can’t blame right leaning folks for utilizing some right leaning sources because sometimes that’s all they got.

I don't think you'd find anyone who doesn't believe that the media has at least a slight bias. Probably more than slight. I don't blame Republicans for watching Fox News for example, as much as I do blame them for constantly decrying how biased the media is but then engaging with clearly biased media, while denying that their media source is biased. I think that the left definitely clearly wins the mainstream media bias award, however the folks on the right seem to have an endless supply of homegrown Op/Ed type websites that masquerade as news that they seem to engage with frequently and deeply.


I would at least argue their news coverage is more balanced. Their talking head shows are clearly conservative. Sadly, too many people think shows like Hannity, Don Lemon, Rachel Maddow, etc., are news when they’re anything but.

I remember reading about a study some university journalism program did of TV news coverage of either the W vs Kerry election or Obama vs McCain. They rated each news story, again not opinion stories, as either positive or negative towards the candidate. Fox was actually “fair and balanced” at that time, with the same ratio of positive vs negative stories about each candidate. CNN was next but had slightly more positive stories about the Democratic candidate and slightly more negative stories about the Republican candidate. MSNBC was the worst by far, with something Iike 70/30 in favor of the Democrat and 75/25 negative towards the Republican.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Even Obama McCain was a lifetime ago in terms of the media's acceleration toward bias. I do think that a big part of the problem is 24 hour news, and the need to develop content, coupled with tribalism. There just isn't all that much news to report objectively to fill the time that we now have available for 'news'. Networks have filled the void with endless opinion shows that very effectively market to the biases of their viewers. These opinion shows have slowly infiltrated the networks to the point that they have become part of their overall psyche.

It's really hard to ask someone to shift gears from Hannity or Maddow to objective news. Most people can't or won't do it, so it's much easier to just let the bias influence your reporting of the news as well. At the end of the day these are all just businesses that wan't to maximize profit.

[Lamont Sanford]

Anyone know when Kanye is planning to announce his running mate??? That is more pivotal than Sleepy Joe choosing Kamala Harris or Susan Rice or Pocahontas Warren.

I'm hoping for a Kanye/Flava Flav ticket.

[Mrs. Garrett]

In local politics, Zach Hankins' dad Scott is running for County Commissioner up in Charlevoix, MI. We're renting a lake house up here for the week and have seen signs around town. So good luck to him.

[noteggs]

After watching some of the CF called the House committee hearing, had to laugh when a congressman introduced an article from Slate for the record. Guess this message board is not the only ones to present bias sources to make their points.

[paulxu]

Sometimes things are just so weird that you have to laugh.
Trump was retweeting some "doctors" who were pushing the chloro stuff as a cure.
Guess Facebook, Twitter, whoever took down the content as being misleading to the public or something.
(Full disclosure, I don't do the Twitter or Facebook).

Anyway, it turns out the story originated at Breitbart, and the lady "doctor" has the following ideas to her credit:


Before Trump and his supporters embrace Immanuel’s medical expertise, though, they should consider other medical claims Immanuel has made—including those about alien DNA and the physical effects of having sex with witches and demons in your dreams.

Immanuel, a pediatrician and a religious minister, has a history of making bizarre claims about medical topics and other issues. She has often claimed that gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are in fact caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches.

You've got to admit that's funny. Boy would they have loved it if Biden had pushed that theory.

[boozehound]

Sometimes things are just so weird that you have to laugh.
Trump was retweeting some "doctors" who were pushing the chloro stuff as a cure.
Guess Facebook, Twitter, whoever took down the content as being misleading to the public or something.
(Full disclosure, I don't do the Twitter or Facebook).

Anyway, it turns out the story originated at Breitbart, and the lady "doctor" has the following ideas to her credit:



You've got to admit that's funny. Boy would they have loved it if Biden had pushed that theory.

That is the problem with doing literally no research, I guess.

[XU 87]

That is the problem with doing literally no research, I guess.

Yep, the liberal way. When you don't agree with someone, you find some means to just shut that person up, or in this case, you shut up multiple people. I suspect the left will also try to have the doctors who spoke on this video fired. Why is the left so intolerant? Why do you take such delight in literally destroying people's careers or reputations, simply because they disagree with you?

[bobbiemcgee]

Hey, if you want to take that crap, go ahead. It's your body and health. Free will's a bitch.

[paulxu]

Good lord, Carlson was pushing the video last night. People believe this stuff.

[murray87]

I wonder how many Bernie supporters feel this way?

https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/27/bernie-campaign-co-chair-voting-for-biden-eating-bowl-of-shit/

[XU_Lou]

Yep, the liberal way. When you don't agree with someone, you find some means to just shut that person up, or in the case, you shut up multiple people. I suspect the left will also try to have the doctors who spoke on this video fired. Why is the left so intolerant? Why do you take such delight in literally destroying people's careers or reputations, simply because they disagree with you?

Bingo!

Here are some facts. First of all, there are virtually no side effects for the vast majority of people taking hydroxychloroquine. This is from the National Institutes of Health (NIH): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7128816/

"Chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine has a well-studied toxicity profile. The half-century-long use of this drug in the therapy of malaria demonstrates the safety of acute administration of chloroquine to human beings. The use of chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine in rheumatic diseases and for antimalarial prophylaxis showed a low incidence of adverse events during chronic administration of this drug for periods of up to a few years. In these cases, the most serious toxic effect is a macular retinopathy, which depends on the cumulative dose rather than on the daily dose, and permanent damage may be prevented with regular visual monitoring during treatment.27, 28, 29 A recent study30 provided encouraging results on the safety of a high dosage of the drug (up to 500 mg of chloroquine base per day) even during pregnancy.

We conclude that chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine administration presents limited and well-preventable toxicity and may thus result in a low risk/benefit balance at least when it is used in life-threatening conditions."

One of the most recent studies for the use of hydroxychloroquine in treatment of Covid just came from the Henry Ford Health System. The study "Shows Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients". The study was from an analysis of 2,541 patients - and peer reviewed. The key to using this drug as an effective measure against Covid is to use it early. Using it in late stages doesn't appear to be effective: https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus:https://www.foxnews.com/media/hydroxychloroquine-could-save-lives-ingraham-yale-professor

Worldwide, there have been 65 studies on the use of hydroxychloroquine as treatment for Covid (39 have been peer reviewed). Though some have proven to be negative, some inconclusive, the vast majority show positive results for the use of hydroxychloroquine: https://c19study.com/

Anecdotally, there are many, many doctors who have reported major success in the use of hydroxychloroquine. Added up, all of this data/info cannot be ignored. Is hydroxychloroquine a perfect treatment - I don't know, but it's much better than waiting for a vaccine if you have the disease.

[GoMuskies]

WaPo will now capitalize Black and White when referring to people's skin color. Why? Because 2020 is the worst year ever.

[boozehound]

Yep, the liberal way. When you don't agree with someone, you find some means to just shut that person up, or in this case, you shut up multiple people. I suspect the left will also try to have the doctors who spoke on this video fired. Why is the left so intolerant? Why do you take such delight in literally destroying people's careers or reputations, simply because they disagree with you?

Are you serious with this bullshit? The 'sex with demons' Doctor? Yeah - I don't think we should be listening to her. At all. I also feel the same way about anti-vaxxers on the left.

There is 'intolerant' and then there is 'not listening to shit that is clearly crazy'. It's hard to take seriously anyone arguing that this is the former.

[XU_Lou]

Are you serious with this bullshit? The 'sex with demons' Doctor? Yeah - I don't think we should be listening to her. At all. I also feel the same way about anti-vaxxers on the left.

There is 'intolerant' and then there is 'not listening to shit that is clearly crazy'. It's hard to take seriously anyone arguing that this is the former.

I noticed how you conveniently skimmed over the data I provided above. Perhaps Dr. Emmanuel has some crazy viewpoints, but you, nor the liberal media, have provided any type of counter to her findings. Her viewpoints have NOTHING to do with the effectiveness of HCQ that many doctors and studies have found around the world. Please, stop the deflecting....

[XU 87]

Are you serious with this bullshit? The 'sex with demons' Doctor? Yeah - I don't think we should be listening to her. At all. I also feel the same way about anti-vaxxers on the left.

There is 'intolerant' and then there is 'not listening to shit that is clearly crazy'. It's hard to take seriously anyone arguing that this is the former.

Well, I 'm glad you have made the decision that the rest of us should not be permitted to listen to her or any of the other doctors (there were at least five) on that video discussing their opinions on covid solely because you disagree with them.

Your post confirms what I said- you don't agree with what these doctors say. Therefore, the rest of us shouldn't be permitted to hear what they have to say. The left will not tolerate permitting people to form their own opinions which may differ from theirs.

I again ask you- why is the left so intolerant? Why do you have shut down those you disagree with?

[XU 87]

I noticed how you conveniently skimmed over the data I provided above. Perhaps Dr. Emmanuel has some crazy viewpoints, but you, nor the liberal media, have provided any type of counter to her findings. Her viewpoints have NOTHING to do with the effectiveness of HCQ that many doctors and studies have found around the world. Please, stop the deflecting....

Trump said he thinks HCQ is effective. According to left doctrine, Trump can never be correct about anything. Therefore, the left goes into hysteria and says HCQ is not effective and anyone who says otherwise needs to be shut down. It's really that simple. If Trump hadn't mentioned HCQ, the left wouldn't be going into this consistent outrage when discussing its potential benefits. Trump MUST be shown to be wrong. Period.

[XU_Lou]

Trump said he thinks HCQ is effective. According to left doctrine, Trump can never be correct about anything. Therefore, the left goes into hysteria and says HCQ is not effective and anyone who says otherwise needs to be shut down. It's really that simple. If Trump hadn't mentioned HCQ, the left wouldn't be going into this consistent outrage when discussing its potential benefits. Trump MUST be shown to be wrong. Period.

I believe you are 100% correct on that. The left jumped on that immediately after he first mentioned it.

[XU 87]

I believe you are 100% correct on that. The left jumped on that immediately after he first mentioned it.

The left apparently cares more about making Trump look bad than saving lives.

[Lamont Sanford]

the left apparently cares more about making trump look bad than saving lives.

b-i-n-g-o!

[XU_Lou]

b-i-n-g-o!

I'll second that thought...

[STL_XUfan]

I think when we look back on this time the hydroxychloroquine debate will be one of the sillier things to ever enter the public debate. The fact that any lay person has an opinion they feel need to defend on this subject is just bizarre (and I am not saying that as someone who hasn't had arguments over it, I fully admit that I have been infected by the 2020 silliness).

[boozehound]

Well, I 'm glad you have made the decision that the rest of us should not be permitted to listen to her or any of the other doctors (there were at least five) on that video discussing their opinions on covid solely because you disagree with them.

Your post confirms what I said- you don't agree with what these doctors say. Therefore, the rest of us shouldn't be permitted to hear what they have to say. The left will not tolerate permitting people to form their own opinions which may differ from theirs.

I again ask you- why is the left so intolerant? Why do you have shut down those you disagree with?

I made no judgments on HCQ. I did make a judgment on the President retweeting medical opinions from a widely discredited Doctor who has some opinions that I'm surprised didn't cost her her medical license. If he had done any thinking at all prior to tweeting that, he would have gone with a source that didn't involve that particular Doctor. I think the President should think before he speaks, particularly when so many of you guys believe everything he says.

Can you imagine of Obama had tweeted this? You guys would have been going absolutely apeshit (rightly so), but because it's Trump you guys can't stockpile enough Hydroxycholorquine.

I was actually relatively impressed by Trump for a week or so. He stayed on message for the most part and seemed to actually manage to show a bit of humility and empathy (a very small bit, but still) at times. He finally told people to wear masks and actually set an example. Then the rails seem to have come off again and we are back to where we started from.

Regarding the treatment itself. It seems that the body of evidence is that HCQ doesn't do much to help, and might even hurt. I don't know why we are even still talking about it as a country. It really only comes up when Trump chooses to tweet about it. I also don't really have a problem with people taking it (assuming it's a choice they are making). From what I understand most Doctors have stopped using it as part of protocol to treat COVID in light of new studies and evidence.

This is just another phase of the dumbing down of our society. For decades Medicine has relied on a process of rigorous, peer reviewed, studies to determine the effectiveness of drugs and treatments, as well as the possible side effects. That process is increasingly suggesting that HCQ is not an effective treatment, but a great many people are choosing to ignore that. That is some Medieval / Dark Ages type of shit. If we are just going to ignore science, why not try leeches?

[XU_Lou]

Regarding the treatment itself. It seems that the body of evidence is that HCQ doesn't do much to help, and might even hurt. I don't know why we are even still talking about it as a country. It really only comes up when Trump chooses to tweet about it. I also don't really have a problem with people taking it (assuming it's a choice they are making). From what I understand most Doctors have stopped using it as part of protocol to treat COVID in light of new studies and evidence.

This is just another phase of the dumbing down of our society. For decades Medicine has relied on a process of rigorous, peer reviewed, studies to determine the effectiveness of drugs and treatments, as well as the possible side effects. That process is increasingly suggesting that HCQ is not an effective treatment, but a great many people are choosing to ignore that. That is some Medieval / Dark Ages type of shit. If we are just going to ignore science, why not try leeches?

Notice how Boozehound continues to ignore the data I provided that goes against his ignorant POV....

[XU 87]

I'm a lawyer. I don't know if HCQ is effective. What I do know is that at least five doctors were silenced because their views on covid were contrary to the left wing's views. What I also know is that the left applauded that decision to silence them, and two of our liberal posters on this board also applauded that decision. And I find all of this very, very disturbing.

[Juice]

I'm a lawyer. I don't know if HCQ is effective. What I do know is that at least five doctors were silenced because their views on covid were contrary to the left wing's views. What I also know is that the left applauded that decision to silence them, and two of our liberal posters on this board also applauded that decision. And I find all of this very, very disturbing.

For a drug that is effective in treating people for other serious diseases and has been in use for decades. It's not like people are advocating for essential oils as a treatment for cancer or something. It's real medicine backed by real doctors with some examples of success so far. Dismissing it completely doesn't seem like a wise move for "the party of science."

[bleedXblue]

I made no judgments on HCQ. I did make a judgment on the President retweeting medical opinions from a widely discredited Doctor who has some opinions that I'm surprised didn't cost her her medical license. If he had done any thinking at all prior to tweeting that, he would have gone with a source that didn't involve that particular Doctor. I think the President should think before he speaks, particularly when so many of you guys believe everything he says.

Can you imagine of Obama had tweeted this? You guys would have been going absolutely apeshit (rightly so), but because it's Trump you guys can't stockpile enough Hydroxycholorquine.

I was actually relatively impressed by Trump for a week or so. He stayed on message for the most part and seemed to actually manage to show a bit of humility and empathy (a very small bit, but still) at times. He finally told people to wear masks and actually set an example. Then the rails seem to have come off again and we are back to where we started from.

Regarding the treatment itself. It seems that the body of evidence is that HCQ doesn't do much to help, and might even hurt. I don't know why we are even still talking about it as a country. It really only comes up when Trump chooses to tweet about it. I also don't really have a problem with people taking it (assuming it's a choice they are making). From what I understand most Doctors have stopped using it as part of protocol to treat COVID in light of new studies and evidence.

This is just another phase of the dumbing down of our society. For decades Medicine has relied on a process of rigorous, peer reviewed, studies to determine the effectiveness of drugs and treatments, as well as the possible side effects. That process is increasingly suggesting that HCQ is not an effective treatment, but a great many people are choosing to ignore that. That is some Medieval / Dark Ages type of shit. If we are just going to ignore science, why not try leeches?

Who believes everything he says?

Biden says virtually nothing and when he does it isn't coherent.

HCQ has been used for decades? Why again does it need to go through rigorous testing and studies? We need treatments now!! Even if they marginally help patients.

[XU 87]

For a drug that is effective in treating people for other serious diseases and has been in use for decades. It's not like people are advocating for essential oils as a treatment for cancer or something. It's real medicine backed by real doctors with some examples of success so far. Dismissing it completely doesn't seem like a wise move for "the party of science."

The left thinks that you shouldn't be permitted to say things like this. Moderators, take down this post.

[chico]

Can you imagine of Obama had tweeted this? You guys would have been going absolutely apeshit (rightly so), but because it's Trump you guys can't stockpile enough Hydroxycholorquine.

This pretty much encapsulates the state of politics right now (and I'm not talking about the validity of Hydroxycholorquine). It's rare that anyone on either side of the aisle will ever admit that someone across the aisle may have a good idea or raise a valid point. If my guys says it than it's fine, but if the other guy says it then it's immediately discounted.

I found this pretty interesting. Though I don't agree with some of the proposals (automatic voter registration and vote from home are too open to being corrupted) it's something I could get behind.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/473754-michael-douglas-anti-corruption-group-us-political-system-has

[noteggs]

I think when we look back on this time the hydroxychloroquine debate will be one of the sillier things to ever enter the public debate. The fact that any lay person has an opinion they feel need to defend on this subject is just bizarre (and I am not saying that as someone who hasn't had arguments over it, I fully admit that I have been infected by the 2020 silliness).

Not only is it silly but it’s complete BS this drug has been so politicized especially during a pandemic. You even had a complete bogus study published in NEJM and the Lancet. What was the motive of the lead investigator? Studies have varied for its utility on Covid. However, if a doctor feels it may help and discusses risk/benefit with patient, then go for it. I mean if a patient was dying of cancer, some oncologists would be throwing the kitchen sink at the disease.

What ever happened to listen to the medical professionals? Yes, Trump should’ve stayed in his lane, but in typical fashion the press went out of their way to prove him wrong even before the facts are/were out. In my 20 some years in medicine, this has definitely been a first.

[Lloyd Braun]

Not only is it silly but it’s complete BS this drug has been so politicized especially during a pandemic. You even had a complete bogus study published in NEJM and the Lancet. What was the motive of the lead investigator? Studies have varied for its utility on Covid. However, if a doctor feels it may help and discusses risk/benefit with patient, then go for it. I mean if a patient was dying of cancer, some oncologists would be throwing the kitchen sink at the disease.

What ever happened to listen to the medical professionals? Yes, Trump should’ve stayed in his lane, but in typical fashion the press went out of their way to prove him wrong even before the facts are/were out. In my 20 some years in medicine, this has definitely been a first.

I agree with this wholeheartedly however the reason this is politicized is because of the President, not because of the media. If he continues to spread/promote misinformation I would hope he would be called out on it. HCQ is not a cure for COVID, and I believe we should all be able to agree on that, but he promotes a video by a doctor that states just that. He can’t let it go as if to belabor a point from months ago.

If we are going to criticize the Lancet and others for having observational studies, we can’t promote the same type of study that XU_LOU posted from Henry Ford. This (https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/a-flawed-covid-19-study-gets-the-white-houses-attention-and-the-fda-may-pay-the-price/) is a good summary of why these studies shouldn’t be promoted as new and exciting data. The quote by Dr. Nissen sums up my thoughts: “As soon as we stop talking about hydroxychloroquine, the sooner we can focus attention on more promising therapies.”

Personally I would not hesitate to take HCQ in an outpatient setting based on my health and risk factors, but there are many I would be hesitant to recommend it for, based on the doses recommended to treat COVID (1400-2000mg loading doses).

[boozehound]

Notice how Boozehound continues to ignore the data I provided that goes against his ignorant POV....

Honestly, I just don't view you as worth engaging with based on the content of your posts. You are free to do the same with me. I'm sorry to be rude.


I'm a lawyer. I don't know if HCQ is effective. What I do know is that at least five doctors were silenced because their views on covid were contrary to the left wing's views. What I also know is that the left applauded that decision to silence them, and two of our liberal posters on this board also applauded that decision. And I find all of this very, very disturbing.

To be very, very clear: I did not and do not support 'silencing' anyone for their political views.

Having said that: This is a tough one for me: We have a problem right now, in that far too many people in this country are too stupid for their own good. The internet allows for information (and misinformation) to spread astonishingly quickly. In that regard, I am tempted to support a private business choosing to remove content that has been proven false or contains clear misinformation. My concern, however, is that somebody would just form a conservative version of twitter that all the conservatives would go and join and then we would further the divide in this country.



For a drug that is effective in treating people for other serious diseases and has been in use for decades. It's not like people are advocating for essential oils as a treatment for cancer or something. It's real medicine backed by real doctors with some examples of success so far. Dismissing it completely doesn't seem like a wise move for "the party of science."

Are you a lawyer too?

In all seriousness - I mostly agree with this. The only extent to which I give a shit what anyone says about HCQ is the extent to which, I believe, it is being held up as a beacon of false hope. Most of the studies I have read suggest that there is no real change in outcome. Not that it particularly harms people, just that it doesn't really help. It requires a prescription though, so it's not like people can go out and buy it themselves - it still has to be dispensed by a Doctor. Are there peer reviewed studies that point convincingly HCQ's effectiveness as a treatment for COVID? I thought most of those were continuing to come back null.

I do think that there are some drugs that are safe, or 'worth the risk' for some things but not others. I mean, why not try Chemotherapy for COVID? The answer is because there is no indication it will help and it would probably hurt.


Not only is it silly but it’s complete BS this drug has been so politicized especially during a pandemic. You even had a complete bogus study published in NEJM and the Lancet. What was the motive of the lead investigator? Studies have varied for its utility on Covid. However, if a doctor feels it may help and discusses risk/benefit with patient, then go for it. I mean if a patient was dying of cancer, some oncologists would be throwing the kitchen sink at the disease.

What ever happened to listen to the medical professionals? Yes, Trump should’ve stayed in his lane, but in typical fashion the press went out of their way to prove him wrong even before the facts are/were out. In my 20 some years in medicine, this has definitely been a first.

The issue because politicized because Trump politicized it. If he hadn't said anything nobody would even know what hydroxycholoroquine was. Trump has also been a first, in that he basically started a war with the media and then spent his Presidency whining about how unfair they are to him. His supporters have since joined the fray.

[paulxu]

Perhaps Dr. Emmanuel has some crazy viewpoints, but you, nor the liberal media, have provided any type of counter to her findings.

Perhaps?

I'm going to go try and find some sort of "counter" to her findings that demons having sex with women in their dreams causes endometriosis.
Will be back when I do. Would welcome a link to some verified study on this phenomenon.

[XU 87]

To be very, very clear: I did not and do not support 'silencing' anyone for their political views.

Having said that: This is a tough one for me: We have a problem right now, in that far too many people in this country are too stupid for their own good. The internet allows for information (and misinformation) to spread astonishingly quickly. In that regard, I am tempted to support a private business choosing to remove content that has been proven false or contains clear misinformation. My concern, however, is that somebody would just form a conservative version of twitter that all the conservatives would go and join and then we would further the divide in this country.




That's classic liberalism- "We need to have a panel of really smart people like us to protect all the dumb people like you from getting bad information."

In short, you do want to silence people's political views if you or some other liberal deems those views "false".

[paulxu]

You don't need smart people to know it's not healthy to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

But perhaps you need a little bit of intelligence to understand why it's a bad idea.

[boozehound]

That's classic liberalism- "We need to have a panel of really smart people like us to protect all the dumb people like you from getting bad information."

In short, you do want to silence people's political views if you or some other liberal deems those views "false".

Again: Not a liberal. I know that you can't (or choose not to) understand that. You saying you were a lawyer makes sense, since you seem to view everything as black and white and are a persistent debater.

But I do think that we all agree that some things are objectively true and false, right? Like factual and not-factual is an actual thing and not some sort of abstract concept where people have 'their truth' vs 'the truth'? Do we want people spreading completely false (and potentially dangerous) information, or do we all agree that there is still a line somewhere?

As I stated: I'm not sure that I'm in favor of twitter (even though they are a private business) removing posts that they deem false - I'd rather see them flag or fact check them. I do think that Social Media companies are within their right to monitor what people post and remove it for any reason they want, honestly.

[noteggs]

The issue because politicized because Trump politicized it. If he hadn't said anything nobody would even know what hydroxycholoroquine was. Trump has also been a first, in that he basically started a war with the media and then spent his Presidency whining about how unfair they are to him. His supporters have since joined the fray.

We already knew about HCQ and its potential and was being looked at before Trump opened his big mouth. So bringing up a potential treatment at the time is political? Perhaps. At the time, l believe he said it may work or it may not.

As I mentioned earlier, he should have stayed in his lane with the Covid press conferences. Unfortunately those conferences were about 2 hours too long and did turn into a Trump vs press. Kind of like staying until a bar closes and you either get into a fight or hookup with something less than desirable. Neither good options.

Trump fights with press as much as the press tries to prove him wrong or lied. Obviously I normally side with conservatives, but people don’t understand how refreshing it was at the beginning for someone to actually fight back at MSM/Democrats narrative about Republicans. Unfortunately it’s now just turned into a shit show.

BTW, HCQ is sold over the counter in some countries such as India if that tells you something about its safety profile.

[XU_Lou]

Honestly, I just don't view you as worth engaging with based on the content of your posts.

Gee, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so sensitive...

[Muskie in dayton]

This "Front Line Doctors" thing is another example of how F-ed up everything is.

Group of Doctors: "We have data to show that HCQ, zinc and azithromyocin are effective in treating COVID-19."
Trump: "Woo hoo! I'm going to blindly retweet this!"
Mainstream Media: "OK, how can dismiss this one? Should we question their data? Should we ask about how they conducted their studies? Maybe ask for the data to be published? No, wait, look! One of the doctors has some crazy-ass beliefs!!! Let's just use that to blanket dismiss the everything. Yeah!"
"Fact Check" sites: these doctors have varying degrees of qualifications, are all politically conservative, and one is bat-shit crazy. Ergo, false!"
Social Media: we're removing this content because it's false.
Trump & supporters: "The truth is being silenced, all in a conspiracy against Trump!"

Reality: this is a group of conservative doctors of varying qualifications, one of which has some bat-shit crazy beliefs. But there has been no vetting of their claimed studies and data. It may be total bullshit - hell they may not have any data at all. But we still don't know, and that's a problem.

[paulxu]

I thought there had been studies both ways on the chloro stuff. Probably wrong on that.

But if someone says something, often we don't need to vet the claim.
For example, when your president says that maybe injecting disinfectant is a good idea...maybe we don't need to vet that claim.
We do need the CDC to warn people not to try it, because, well...it might kill you.

[Muskie in dayton]

I was searching MedRxiv to see if any of the "Front Line Doctors" had published. I found nothing. I did find a meta analysis of HCQ testing that essentially said it didn't help and only hurt.

Then I also found this, which looked at roughly the same cocktail as the "Front Line Doctors" promoted:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1
"Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19".

Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but we deserve better vetting of their data than what the media provided.

[Muskie in dayton]

I thought there had been studies both ways on the chloro stuff. Probably wrong on that.

But if someone says something, often we don't need to vet the claim.
For example, when your president says that maybe injecting disinfectant is a good idea...maybe we don't need to vet that claim.
We do need the CDC to warn people not to try it, because, well...it might kill you.
Ugh, cringe-worthy rhetoric. FYI, he's your president as much as he is mine, and I'm quite certain that neither of is is happy about it.

That claim was idiotic, spewed by an idiot, and believed by only bigger idiots. These are a handful of medical practitioners. This needs vetted, both because society deserves to know, and if they indeed are making stuff up, to strip them of their licenses so they can never practice again.

[Lloyd Braun]

Group of Doctors: "We have data to show that HCQ, zinc and azithromyocin are effective in treating COVID-19.”

This isn’t what happened. Dr. Immanuel said she has a “cure” for COVID. That’s a bit different which raises an eye to who says that. I didn’t see them produce any data whatsoever but I could have missed it.

Here is the proper vetting:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87797

I don’t think they are politically motivated as much as they are financially motivated.

[paulxu]

This sounds like there's a massive trial of sorts going on in Brazil.
Maybe something will come out of so many people using it if it's tracked correctly.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/americas/brazil-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-intl/index.html

[Muskie in dayton]

This isn’t what happened. Dr. Immanuel said she has a “cure” for COVID. That’s a bit different which raises an eye to who says that. I didn’t see them produce any data whatsoever but I could have missed it.

Here is the proper vetting:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87797

No, I read that already. It only vets the doctors' experience level. I'm talking about vetting the actual data they have and studies they conducted. E.g., Dr. Emmanuel claims to have treated 300-something patients and all recovered. How come no one seems interested in that?

[Lloyd Braun]

No, I read that already. It only vets the doctors' experience level. I'm talking about vetting the actual data they have and studies they conducted. E.g., Dr. Emmanuel claims to have treated 300-something patients and all recovered. How come no one seems interested in that?

They’ve asked her and she hasn’t presented it.

[STL_XUfan]

The Ohio Board of Pharmacy just made the decision real easy for Ohio docs.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I'm a lawyer. I don't know if HCQ is effective. What I do know is that at least five doctors were silenced because their views on covid were contrary to the left wing's views. What I also know is that the left applauded that decision to silence them, and two of our liberal posters on this board also applauded that decision. And I find all of this very, very disturbing.

Lawyer? You usually sound like you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

[Muskie in dayton]

Huh. Very interesting - and long - read.
https://medium.com/@filiperafaeli/hydroxychloroquine-the-narrative-that-doesnt-work-is-the-biggest-hoax-in-recent-human-history-2685487ad717
...and from a left leaning source no less. Thoughts?

[XU 87]

Lawyer? You usually sound like you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

Listen here wiseguy, As a result of this post, I plan to sue you some day, get a judgment, and then seize all of your assets. I will give them back only after you apologize.

[STL_XUfan]

Listen here wiseguy, As a result of this post, I plan to sue you some day, get a judgment, and then seize all of your assets. I will give them back only after you apologize.

Don't let him intimidate you, I will gladly represent you against his baseless suit for the low cost of just 1/3rd of all your assets.

[Lloyd Braun]

Wait... Mrs. Garrett is a man? What’s the next revelation, Lamont Sanford is white?

[boozehound]

This "Front Line Doctors" thing is another example of how F-ed up everything is.

Group of Doctors: "We have data to show that HCQ, zinc and azithromyocin are effective in treating COVID-19."
Trump: "Woo hoo! I'm going to blindly retweet this!"
Mainstream Media: "OK, how can dismiss this one? Should we question their data? Should we ask about how they conducted their studies? Maybe ask for the data to be published? No, wait, look! One of the doctors has some crazy-ass beliefs!!! Let's just use that to blanket dismiss the everything. Yeah!"
"Fact Check" sites: these doctors have varying degrees of qualifications, are all politically conservative, and one is bat-shit crazy. Ergo, false!"
Social Media: we're removing this content because it's false.
Trump & supporters: "The truth is being silenced, all in a conspiracy against Trump!"

Reality: this is a group of conservative doctors of varying qualifications, one of which has some bat-shit crazy beliefs. But there has been no vetting of their claimed studies and data. It may be total bullshit - hell they may not have any data at all. But we still don't know, and that's a problem.

This is perfectly stated, IMO. At the end of the day whether or not HCQ was effective, or worth the risk, should have been a medical issue not a political one. Like all things Trump, this began getting politicized when he started tweeting about it. I'm not really sure what to do about Trump's tweeting, other than vote him out of office. I don't think he can/should be silenced (although I would say fact checking is fair game), but this behavior is problematic coming from the President.

It's an issue we haven't really had before - an idiot President coupled with social media - and I'm not sure we really know what to do about it.

[paulxu]

Here's a good example of the situation your describe:


In a briefing Tuesday, when asked about doctor whose video was removed by several social media companies for spreading misinformation, Trump said Immanuel’s was a “very important voice” and called her “very impressive.”

In an ABC interview Tuesday, the nation’s top infectious diseases expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said that he is in agreement with the FDA, who recently revoked the emergency use authorization for the drug as treatment.

“The overwhelming, prevailing clinical trials that have looked at the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine have indicated that it is not effective in coronavirus disease,” Fauci said.

If a politician is supporting a person with that doctor's views, and your top disease guy isn't...what are you suppose to do?

Gomhert is going with Immanuel.

[boozehound]

Here's a good example of the situation your describe:



If a politician is supporting a person with that doctor's views, and your top disease guy isn't...what are you suppose to do?

Gomhert is going with Immanuel.

Right. Now we take a (further) turn for the F'd up. Trump could have just said that he regrets giving credence to that particular Doctor but stands by the statement and the other Doctors that has supported it.

Instead he doubles down on the sex demon Doctor and her (as of yet) unproven claims that she is some sort of COVID healer. It's like we have literally erased 100 years of medical advances.

I don't understand how people can see this as anything other than stupid.

[XU 87]

Again: Not a liberal.

Just because you're not rioting in Portland doesn't mean you're not a liberal. It's ok- admit it- you're a liberal.

I'll admit similar- I'm a conservative.

[boozehound]

Just because you're not rioting in Portland doesn't mean you're not a liberal. It's ok- admit it- you're a liberal.

I'll admit similar- I'm a conservative.

I don't really think I am liberal though, and I hate the idea of identifying with either party (and always have). I don't understand people's need to bucket themselves in one (of only two!) ideological frameworks and then tirelessly defend the entirety of their beliefs and actions as though there are only two ways to think.

[Smails]

I don't really think I am liberal though

There's a scene in Bohemian Rhapsody where Freddie Mercury looks at his his girlfriend and says "I think I might be bisexual" his girlfriend looks at him and says "freddie, you're gay." Booze...you're a liberal.

This is mostly a joke, but it made me chuckle. It's pouring rain and I'm working at home so I'm doing my best to entertain myself :)

[boozehound]

There's a scene in Bohemian Rhapsody where Freddie Mercury looks at his his girlfriend and says "I think I might be bisexual" his girlfriend looks at him and says "freddie, you're gay." Booze...you're a liberal.

This is mostly a joke, but it made me chuckle. It's pouring rain and I'm working at home so I'm doing my best to entertain myself :)

Not having a belief system that directly aligns with either party, my voting practices have changed based on the specific issues that I weight as most important at a given time. Typically I voted conservatively because I prioritize the economy highly in my 'pecking order' of what is important. I now find that my belief system seems more aligned with the Democrats, but I haven't really changed my belief system. I think it's more a function of the current environment. My distaste for Trump is probably heavily influencing that as well. I really think that Trump is a bad, bad President in a way that no President before him can even approach. That is a personal statement about his fitness for the role and overall character. Not intended as a political one.

[paulxu]

Apparently the co-founder of the Federalist Society (responsible for putting forth all the conservative judges approved in the last 3 years) has decided that the president is a fascist. And perhaps should be impeached.


But, Calabresi wrote, “I am frankly appalled by the president’s recent tweet seeking to postpone the November election.”

“Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist,” he said. “But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.”

[Mrs. Garrett]

Listen here wiseguy, As a result of this post, I plan to sue you some day, get a judgment, and then seize all of your assets. I will give them back only after you apologize.

What do you have against Holiday Inn Express? Maybe their corporate lawyers will back me.

Just in case you do sue me, I plan on purchasing DePaul season tickets for your taking.

[xubrew]

One of the few things Trump is particularly good at is getting idiots to do what he wants, which I guess from a selfish perspective is a useful ability to have when running for public office pretty much anywhere in the United States. I think he sucks as a leader and as a president, and I don't necessarily think this is a good quality for a president to have, but for what it may be worth, Trump is good at it.

Everything pretty much sucks right now, and when everything sucks is when Trump tends to throw out some sort of red herring or do, say, or tweet something that is utterly outrageous in order to distract us from how everything sucks. His latest red herring was insinuating that he will postpone the elections.

-The idiots on the Left are going crazy about how he said this and forgetting about how everything sucks.
-His idios on the Right are jumping into the fight because whenever the idiots on the Left get pissed off about something (which is often), the idiots on the right almost instinctively take the side of whatever it is that's pissing them off.

Now all the idiots are fighting about the election being postponed, which is something the president is totally incapable of doing. But, that's what we are now fighting about, and as a result our attention has been taken away from how everything sucks.

This guy is going to be reelected. He's running against morons who can't even figure out how to win an election against a guy like Donald Trump.

[94GRAD]

When you're more worried about getting re-elected than what's best for the Nation!

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&mbid=social_twitter&utm_brand=vf

[Juice]

When you're more worried about getting re-elected than keeping your citizens safe



Christopher F. Rufo
@realchrisrufo

BREAKING: Seattle City Council moves to abolish the entire Seattle Police Department and replace it with a "civilian led Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention."

They want to replace the police force with nonprofit programs and "community-led activities."

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1289226549749673984?s=20

[Xville]

When you're more worried about getting re-elected than keeping your citizens safe



https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1289226549749673984?s=20

Washington and oregon should just go ahead and secede and form their own "woke" country.

[GoMuskies]

They could just become a part of Canada. Same idea, eh?

[Xville]

Their different woke groups could just protest each other moms vs BLM cage matches

[X Factor]

AOC is do dumb...and she calls herself a Catholic?

https://twitter.com/johnrobertgage/status/1289216440088662016

[xuphan]

AOC is do dumb...and she calls herself a Catholic?

https://twitter.com/johnrobertgage/status/1289216440088662016

AOC and Trump are terrible representatives of this country.

[X Factor]

Minneapolis, one of my favorite cities in the North, is turning into a crime infested, dangerous city thanks to the defund the police movement. The city is very liberal, although I enjoyed it because there is so much to do there; great food, beer, zoos, museums, music, etc.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/08/02/minneapolis-police-defunded-by-city-council-advise-residents-to-obey-criminals-n742610


The Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) told residents they should “be prepared” to hand over their phones, wallets, and purses to robbers.

The MPD has reported a 46 percent increase in carjackings and a 36 percent increase in robberies compared to this same time last year, according to WCCO.

Police in the city’s Third Precinct alone have received more than 100 reports of robberies and 20 reports of carjackings in just the last month.

Officials are now telling residents to be ready and willing to comply with the demands of criminals in an email sent to Third Precinct residents.


“Be prepared to give up your cell phone and purse/wallet,” the police said in their email, a copy of which was obtained by Alpha News. The email said citizens should listen to criminals and “do as they say.”

The message warned that “some victims have been maced, dragged, assaulted, and some threatened with a gun.”

So much for law and order.

[Muskie in dayton]

Minneapolis, one of my favorite cities in the North, is turning into a crime infested, dangerous city thanks to the defund the police movement. The city is very liberal, although I enjoyed it because there is so much to do there; great food, beer, zoos, museums, music, etc.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/08/02/minneapolis-police-defunded-by-city-council-advise-residents-to-obey-criminals-n742610

So much for law and order.
They just need to hire some social workers. They can deescalate the situation and address the root of the problem.

[boozehound]

AOC and Trump are terrible representatives of this country.

I agree with this to a point. I don't know that I would really consider AOC a representative of this country as much as a representative of district whatever in NYC. She is one of 435 US Representatives. She is certainly more of a representative of this country than I am, but much less so than Trump I would argue. The House has some crazy MFer's in it. Look up Frederica Wilson - she dresses like Bishop Don Magic Juan if he was a woman and was obsessed with Cowboy Hats. How about Steve King from Iowa? He was the 'legitimate rape' guy, among other claims to fame. Louie Gohmert is another good one.

AOC gets a lot of press coverage in the US because she is young, loud, and obnoxious.

[X-man]

They just need to hire some social workers. They can deescalate the situation and address the root of the problem.

And keep those visiting white power "protesters" out of the city.

[bobbiemcgee]

So Floridians do an excellent job with mail-in voting but if you live in Nevada you get sued for doing the same. Crazy lunatics are running the Country..

[Juice]

So Floridians do an excellent job with mail-in voting but if you live in Nevada you get sued for doing the same. Crazy lunatics are running the Country..

I wonder where they could have gotten the idea that mail in voting in areas that aren't prepared for it is a bad idea


Why the Botched N.Y.C. Primary Has Become the November Nightmare
Nearly six weeks later, two congressional races remain undecided, and officials are trading blame over the mishandling of tens of thousands of mail-in ballots.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/nyc-mail-ballots-voting.html

[bobbiemcgee]

Then why does it suddenly work for Florida? Stupid.

[bjf123]

Didn’t Nevada mail a ballot to everyone but Florida only sent them out for absentee upon request. I honestly don’t know (and don’t feel like looking it up while grilling burgers).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

What's the difference. You're MAILING in your vote.

[paulxu]

What's the difference.

He needs Florida's electoral votes.

[Juice]

What's the difference. You're MAILING in your vote.

Absentee voting usually involves a reason why you're voting absentee. Mail in voting is just blanket issuance of ballots to people. With obvious issues in primary elections so far this year ranging from late votes, no post marks, etc. one in five ballots are being rejected. And that's obviously a high rate compared to in person voting.

Also, an increase of mailed in ballots will mean a delay in election results which I'm sure everyone in this country will be fine with...

[bjf123]

Absentee voting usually involves a reason why you're voting absentee. Mail in voting is just blanket issuance of ballots to people. With obvious issues in primary elections so far this year ranging from late votes, no post marks, etc. one in five ballots are being rejected. And that's obviously a high rate compared to in person voting.

Also, an increase of mailed in ballots will mean a delay in election results which I'm sure everyone in this country will be fine with...

There’s also the issue of out of date voter registration information. Earlier this year, one of the states mailed primary election ballots to everyone registered to vote. I remember a story about one guy showing the 10-15 ballots that arrived at his apartment, all addressed to the previous occupants of the apartment. Either those voters never updated their registration when they moved or they had died. Regardless, those ballots could easily be filled out by someone and sent in. No reason they wouldn’t be counted.

Of course, when states try to clean up their voter registration by deleting entries for people who hadn’t voted in a number of years, the Left screams “voter suppression!”.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Juice]

There’s also the issue of out of date voter registration information. Earlier this year, one of the states mailed primary election ballots to everyone registered to vote. I remember a story about one guy showing the 10-15 ballots that arrived at his apartment, all addressed to the previous occupants of the apartment. Either those voters never updated their registration when they moved or they had died. Regardless, those ballots could easily be filled out by someone and sent in. No reason they wouldn’t be counted.

Of course, when states try to clean up their voter registration by deleting entries for people who hadn’t voted in a number of years, the Left screams “voter suppression!”.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

or ballot harvesting.

The issues are endless. And I don't understand why the push for mail in voting. The board of elections is open in Hamilton County for weeks before election day allowing people to vote at their own convenience.

[X Factor]

Developed countries ‘ban’ mail-in voting, US would be ‘laughing stock’: Report

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/developed-countries-ban-mail-in-voting-us-would-be-laughing-stock-report

[paulxu]

Why, I have it on good authority that mail in voting works just fine in Florida.
Perhaps it's an undeveloped part of our country.

[xuwillie]

Who knows if it actually works well in Florida. But I’d say I received two ballots (different names) at my house last year in Colorado. How often does that happen?

[bjf123]

Who knows if it actually works well in Florida. But I’d say I received two ballots (different names) at my house last year in Colorado. How often does that happen?

Probably more often than any of us would like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smails]

What would the reaction be if Trump was in favor of a mail-in general election? People don't want mail-in voting because they actually think it's the best way to execute an election. They want mail-in voting because DJT is against it. A mail-in general election would be the biggest shit-show in the history of American politics..and that's saying allot.

[X-man]

What would the reaction be if Trump was in favor of a mail-in general election? People don't want mail-in voting because they actually think it's the best way to execute an election. They want mail-in voting because DJT is against it. A mail-in general election would be the biggest shit-show in the history of American politics..and that's saying allot.

If you really believe that, you need to get out more.

[Smails]

If you really believe that, you need to get out more.

Care to explain, or are you going to stick with slow-witted, low rent snark? Be better.

Are you saying that there is not a large piece of the population that loathes the president to the extent that they'll never agree with anything he says? Really?

More importantly do you think that a mail-in general election is a good idea?

[X-man]

Care to explain, or are you going to stick with slow-witted, low rent snark? Be better.

Are you saying that there is not a large piece of the population that loathes the president to the extent that they'll never agree with anything he says? Really?

More importantly do you think that a mail-in general election is a good idea?

I agree that there is a large piece of the population that loathes Trump; I am one of them. I disagree that people will therefore "never agree with anything he says". In particular, I strenuously disagree with your assertion that the reason people want mail-in voting is because Trump is against it; in fact, I fervently hope that Trump's change of heart with respect to mail-in voting in Florida will extend to the rest of the country as well, regardless of which party sits in the Governor's mansion. And yes, I do think that mail-in voting is a good idea (obviously), especially when the covid danger exists. I have never voted absentee here in Ohio until this year's primary, and I intend to vote absentee again in November's general election.

And BTW, does calling someone "slow-witted" qualify as snark?

[Smails]

And BTW, does calling someone "slow-witted" qualify as snark?

Absolutely. I was just wanting to get your opinion on mail-in voting versus what you typed originally. Thank you for that.

I completely disagree with you about mail-in voting. The more human hands that get involved in the election, the higher probability for major screw ups and outright fraud. Our postal system is currently insolvent and stressed to the max. It is at best a poorly run function of the government. Let's go ahead and flood them with 120+ million extra pieces of mail in a short period of time. What could possibly go wrong with that? How many more postal inspectors will the country need to add to maintain the integrity of this process? Can they be hired and adequately trained by November? What happens when a letter carrier (perhaps a hard-core conservative working in an urban area) just happens to 'lose' a bunch of mail? I just think we need to be looking at ways to make our voting system more accurate and efficient and this looks to be going the opposite way. Way too many moving parts.

[X-man]

Absolutely. I was just wanting to get your opinion on mail-in voting versus what you typed originally. Thank you for that.

I completely disagree with you about mail-in voting. The more human hands that get involved in the election, the higher probability for major screw ups and outright fraud. Our postal system is currently insolvent and stressed to the max. It is at best a poorly run function of the government. Let's go ahead and flood them with 120+ million extra pieces of mail in a short period of time. What could possibly go wrong with that? How many more postal inspectors will the country need to add to maintain the integrity of this process? Can they be hired and adequately trained by November? What happens when a letter carrier (perhaps a hard-core conservative working in an urban area) just happens to 'lose' a bunch of mail? I just think we need to be looking at ways to make our voting system more accurate and efficient and this looks to be going the opposite way. Way too many moving parts.
And what was that? Also, can you tell me how mail-in voting has worked in the states that have been doing it 100% for years? And how it is doing in states like Ohio, among many other states, that offer the mail-in option for any reason?

[Xville]

Yeah let's do mail in voting...maybe by 2022, we will know who won the election. Effin stupid. If you can go to the grocery store, go to work, go to restaurants, go protest etc, you can stand in line and vote...spare me the covid crap and the " well I'll do x,y,z and willing to get covid because it fits what I want to do, but wont do x,y,a because it s dangerous crap.

[Lloyd Braun]

One of the biggest issues I’ve heard: Most poll workers are over the age of 60 and many approaching a significantly older age. I would foresee many of these workers “opting out” which leaves a personnel problem. Who is going to do this? Mail in voting eases the burden some.

[Xville]

One of the biggest issues I’ve heard: Most poll workers are over the age of 60 and many approaching a significantly older age. I would foresee many of these workers “opting out” which leaves a personnel problem. Who is going to do this? Mail in voting eases the burden some.

While in turn completely overwhelming an already overwhelmed USPS.

[Smails]

And what was that? Also, can you tell me how mail-in voting has worked in the states that have been doing it 100% for years? And how it is doing in states like Ohio, among many other states, that offer the mail-in option for any reason?

That I needed to get out more if i held a certain opinion...non-value added IMO

I think 5 states have all mail-in voting. You think its possible to mobilize that model (which has taken years to get right) to 45 other states in 3 months? Let's be realistic. Do you think the USPS can handle that? I think we can all agree that this is kind of an important election in an absolutely crazy time. Why create more chaos and uncertainty.

[paulxu]

While in turn completely overwhelming an already overwhelmed USPS.

Except in Florida...because, well...Florida.

[bobbiemcgee]

I will fill out my mail ballot and drop it in the ballot box provided by my condo association and the board of elections. Simple and saves the postage.

[paulxu]

It seems the NRA might be a big grift, like Trump U and Trump Foundation.

[STL_XUfan]

While in turn completely overwhelming an already overwhelmed USPS.

I receive no less than 5 pieces of unwanted mail a day. During this election cycle I assume I will receive hundreds of unwanted political campaign ads. I do not think 2 additional pieces of incoming mail for my household and 2 additional pieces of outgoing mail is going to bring the USPS to its knees.

And yes, f*** showing up to a polling place during a pandemic. I will be voting mail.

*USPS claims on their average day they deliver 472 million pieces of mail (https://facts.usps.com/one-day/#:~:text=The%20Postal%20Service%20processes%20and% 20delivers%20472.1%20million%20mail%20pieces%20eac h%20day.).

There are 233.5 million voting age individuals in the US (https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/voting-and-registration/congressional-voting-tables.html)

So if 100% of all eligible voters were mailed a ballot and 100% of them returned it it would equal an increase to the USPS of less than 1 day of mail.

[X Factor]

Las Vegas: Over 223K Mail-In Ballots Bounced as ‘Undeliverable’ in Recent Primary Election

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/05/las-vegas-over-223k-mail-in-ballots-bounced-as-undeliverable-in-recent-primary-election/

Evidence Mounts That Mail-In Voting Will Bring Only Fraud And Chaos

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/08/05/evidence-mounts-that-mail-in-voting-will-bring-only-fraud-and-chaos/

[Xville]

I receive no less than 5 pieces of unwanted mail a day. During this election cycle I assume I will receive hundreds of unwanted political campaign ads. I do not think 2 additional pieces of incoming mail for my household and 2 additional pieces of outgoing mail is going to bring the USPS to its knees.

And yes, f*** showing up to a polling place during a pandemic. I will be voting mail.

*USPS claims on their average day they deliver 472 million pieces of mail (https://facts.usps.com/one-day/#:~:text=The%20Postal%20Service%20processes%20and% 20delivers%20472.1%20million%20mail%20pieces%20eac h%20day.).

There are 233.5 million voting age individuals in the US (https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/voting-and-registration/congressional-voting-tables.html)

So if 100% of all eligible voters were mailed a ballot and 100% of them returned it it would equal an increase to the USPS of less than 1 day of mail.

So incredibly shortsighted

[Smails]

I receive no less than 5 pieces of unwanted mail a day. During this election cycle I assume I will receive hundreds of unwanted political campaign ads. I do not think 2 additional pieces of incoming mail for my household and 2 additional pieces of outgoing mail is going to bring the USPS to its knees.

So if 100% of all eligible voters were mailed a ballot and 100% of them returned it it would equal an increase to the USPS of less than 1 day of mail.


LOL...you're comparing junk mail and the steps it takes to process it, to a certified vote for the president of the USA. Yeah...that's apples to apples. Volume is only a small part of the burden. Think broader...

[bigdiggins]

LOL...you're comparing junk mail and the steps it takes to process it, to a certified vote for the president of the USA. Yeah...that's apples to apples. Volume is only a small part of the burden. Think broader...

Just send the ballots standard presort to STL_XUfan or current resident.

[Juice]

It seems the NRA might be a big grift, like Trump U and Trump Foundation.

or Planned Parenthood or the Clinton Foundation

[paulxu]

I don't think either of them has been taken to court and forced to return money to donors.

[Strange Brew]

It seems the NRA might be a big grift, like Trump U and Trump Foundation.

What do you think Trump U actually was?

[paulxu]

What do you think Trump U actually was?

A scam "university"? I think you were suppose to learn some real estate secrets...but it was a typical grift.
Hope you got your money back if you paid any. Not everyone did.

I see where Joe Biden is apparently "against God" and will "hurt the Bible" A person who doesn't go to church just said that about a practicing Catholic.

[Xville]

A scam "university"? I think you were suppose to learn some real estate secrets...but it was a typical grift.
Hope you got your money back if you paid any. Not everyone did.

I see where Joe Biden is apparently "against God" and will "hurt the Bible" A person who doesn't go to church just said that about a practicing Catholic.

Biden and trump are both nuts for different reasons...either way, this is seriously the decision we have..idiocracy is becoming more real by the day

[Strange Brew]

A scam "university"? I think you were suppose to learn some real estate secrets...but it was a typical grift.
Hope you got your money back if you paid any. Not everyone did.

I see where Joe Biden is apparently "against God" and will "hurt the Bible" A person who doesn't go to church just said that about a practicing Catholic.

It was a real estate seminar with Trump’s brand on it. Nothing more, nothing less.

So now Biden is an old, white male, Bible thumper who encourages folks to buy shotguns (he has). Com’ on man.

[paulxu]

It was a real estate seminar with Trump’s brand on it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well, that sure explains why he paid $25 million to the seminar participants.

Attacking Biden's religion, when he goes to church and you don't, seems like the act of a desperate candidate.

[Juice]

I don't think either of them has been taken to court and forced to return money to donors.

I wonder why.

[paulxu]

I wonder why.

Because both of them rate an A- from Charity Tracker...whereas Trump's foundation was shut down for...never mind. I give up.

Maybe I'll vote for Biden because he'd strong enough to "hurt God."

[X Factor]

Joe "You ain't black if you don't vote for me" Biden put his foot in his mouth for about the millionth time in the past 6 months...


@JoeBiden
: “Unlike the African-American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community"

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1291371568225017856

And also, he said he's taken a cognitive test and is always being tested, and then just the other day he was asked by a Black tv news host if he if he had taken a cognitive test, which Biden replied "NO", and asked the host if he was a "junkie"! You can't make this up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyq55Nzm4sg

[X-man]

That I needed to get out more if i held a certain opinion...non-value added IMO

I think 5 states have all mail-in voting. You think its possible to mobilize that model (which has taken years to get right) to 45 other states in 3 months? Let's be realistic. Do you think the USPS can handle that? I think we can all agree that this is kind of an important election in an absolutely crazy time. Why create more chaos and uncertainty.
Actually, that wasn't meant as snark; I really meant it. I know tons of people who want people to be able to vote by mail if they want to, and none of them feel that way because of Trump's position. So I'm curious as to who you have talked to that feels the way that you describe.

[Smails]

Actually, that wasn't meant as snark; I really meant it. I know tons of people who want people to be able to vote by mail if they want to, and none of them feel that way because of Trump's position. So I'm curious as to who you have talked to that feels the way that you describe.

So you honestly think that I need to get out more because I hold the opinion that there are people out there that are so turned off by Trump that they'll go against everything he says? Without naming names and footnoting the specific conversations I can tell you with 100% certainty that some people think Trump doesn't want mail-in voting for purely political gain and they in turn are voting by mail. Christ man, read the comments section on any article addressing the topic. I think it's odd that you don't think these people exist. But I won't go as far as saying you need to get out more.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Actually, that wasn't meant as snark; I really meant it. I know tons of people who want people to be able to vote by mail if they want to, and none of them feel that way because of Trump's position. So I'm curious as to who you have talked to that feels the way that you describe.

Pandemic or not, I want to ensure my right to vote for the best 80 year old white guy in early stages of dementia. Who said Americans don't have choices?

[Mrs. Garrett]

Joe "You ain't black if you don't vote for me" Biden put his foot in his mouth for about the millionth time in the past 6 months...



https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1291371568225017856

And also, he said he's taken a cognitive test and is always being tested, and then just the other day he was asked by a Black tv news host if he if he had taken a cognitive test, which Biden replied "NO", and asked the host if he was a "junkie"! You can't make this up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyq55Nzm4sg

Unfortunately, since 2016 it really doesn't matter. I pretty much wake up every morning just wondering what the President's shit storm on twitter is going to be.

[X-man]

Pandemic or not, I want to ensure my right to vote for the best 80 year old white guy in early stages of dementia. Who said Americans don't have choices?

This certainly looks like a "hold your nose" year for a lot of voters. Trump is such a f***ing disaster that I fully agree with the Indian Hill yard sign that says simply "Any functioning adult" in 2020.

[Mrs. Garrett]

This certainly looks like a "hold your nose" year for a lot of voters. Trump is such a f***ing disaster that I fully agree with the Indian Hill yard sign that says simply "Any functioning adult" in 2020.

And yet neither party could even do that

[X Factor]

I'm happy with Trump.

[X-band '01]

This certainly looks like a "hold your nose" year for a lot of voters. Trump is such a f***ing disaster that I fully agree with the Indian Hill yard sign that says simply "Any functioning adult" in 2020.

Unfortunately, we also saw that movie in 2016.

There is a twist this year in that there is a good chance we'll see a Democratic trifecta (WH/House/Senate) for the first time since 2008.

[boozehound]

Unfortunately, we also saw that movie in 2016.

There is a twist this year in that there is a good chance we'll see a Democratic trifecta (WH/House/Senate) for the first time since 2008.

I'm not too sure about that, nor do I think that would be a good thing necessarily, other than to serve as a rebuke of sorts to what the Republican Party let Trump turn them in to, which could be a good thing over the long haul.

On a positive note: My initial reaction to the Kamala Harris pick is pretty favorable given the options we were hearing about for a while. I think Biden needed a solid VP pick and I don't think that Stacy Abrams or Susan Rice would have been that pick. Gretchen Whitmer might have been a good choice as well, and I like that she has executive experience. I'm glad that Biden resisted the urge to pander to the fringe with his pick, though.

[Xville]

I'm not too sure about that, nor do I think that would be a good thing necessarily, other than to serve as a rebuke of sorts to what the Republican Party let Trump turn them in to, which could be a good thing over the long haul.

On a positive note: My initial reaction to the Kamala Harris pick is pretty favorable given the options we were hearing about for a while. I think Biden needed a solid VP pick and I don't think that Stacy Abrams or Susan Rice would have been that pick. Gretchen Whitmer might have been a good choice as well, and I like that she has executive experience. I'm glad that Biden resisted the urge to pander to the fringe with his pick, though.

I'd call picking a black woman as a vp juat because she is a black woman pandering enough but what else is new for the democrats.

I really wish that side had come up with a decent candidate, instead it's a senile old career politician with no real accomplishments in what 40 years of office? Although I guess to keep getting elected is an accomplishment. As his running mate, he picks a woman who cant stand him nor he her but it was a hold your nose pick. I mean of the crazies the dems made him choose from I guess she was the pick but that again just shows the state of affairs.

[X Factor]

I'm glad that Biden resisted the urge to pander to the fringe with his pick, though.

What fringe are you talking about, because Harris is about as far left as they come.

[X-man]

What fringe are you talking about, because Harris is about as far left as they come.

Please explain. This statement makes no sense to me.

[Lloyd Braun]

Please explain. This statement makes no sense to me.

Hope you’re ready to reply to an op-Ed from a far right/alt right website (of which there are seemingly thousands).

[STL_XUfan]

Please explain. This statement makes no sense to me.

Well you see, Harris is a Rorschach test. Show her to one person and they see the leader of Anti-fa while another may see her beating down anti-fa members with a billy club. It is all really in the eye of the beholder.

[Xville]

I would like it explained to me how she keeps being portrayed in the media as being more of center because everything I have read screams pretty far left. Medicare for all at one point now kamalacare, endorsing the green new deal, student loan forgiveness. I guess at this point If you arent a full on socialist, you are center. Crazy effing times we live in.

[boozehound]

Well you see, Harris is a Rorschach test. Show her to one person and they see the leader of Anti-fa while another may see her beating down anti-fa members with a billy club. It is all really in the eye of the beholder.

LOL. It seems to be mostly the far-left that doesn't like Harris, essentially because she was a prosecutor and 'law and order' isn't playing well with the far left right now. The right is obviously going all-in on painting Biden / Harris as an extremely left wing ticket. Which is laughable, but probably their best strategy to try to hold the White House.


I would like it explained to me how she keeps being portrayed in the media as being more of center because everything I have read screams pretty far left. Medicare for all at one point now kamalacare, endorsing the green new deal, student loan forgiveness. I guess at this point If you arent a full on socialist, you are center. Crazy effing times we live in.

I never place too much stock in what people who are trying to get through the primaries say. The primaries always pull people toward the extremes of their parties' ideology. Medicare for all has essentially become a core platform of the Democratic party. I don't really think Medicare for is all that 'far left' of a concept, unless you mandate it, which Harris has voiced different proposals on.

Things are definitely becoming significantly more polarized overall, but I think the Trump-Pence ticket is probably further to the right than Biden-Harris to the left. Particularly if you really dig into Pence's core beliefs. Trump is harder to pin down because I don't really think he has a system of beliefs, he just does what he thinks will play to his base.

[bobbiemcgee]

I recently sent a priority mail package to my grandson for his birthday. Thanks to the "no joy" postmaster it took 11 days and arrived 3 days late. Sat 10 miles away in Kennesaw, Ga. for 5 days. The card came in 12 days. Can't believe we are allowing this crap to happen in the US.

[X-man]

Well you see, Harris is a Rorschach test. Show her to one person and they see the leader of Anti-fa while another may see her beating down anti-fa members with a billy club. It is all really in the eye of the beholder.

Wall Street disagrees with X Factor. See https://www.wsj.com/articles/kamala-harris-has-taken-on-wall-street-wall-street-doesnt-seem-to-mind-11597254609?mod=hp_lead_pos4.

[X-man]

I recently sent a priority mail package to my grandson for his birthday. Thanks to the "no joy" postmaster it took 11 days and arrived 3 days late. Sat 10 miles away in Kennesaw, Ga. for 5 days. The card came in 12 days. Can't believe we are allowing this crap to happen in the US.

I ordered some blades from Harry's. They took over two weeks to come. What was strange was the fact that they took an indirect route to get to Cincinnati, in about a week, and then headed up to Chicago for a few days before returning to Cincinnati. Some face masks we ordered from California took over three weeks even though they left California within a day or two after we ordered them.

[Xville]

Yet many on here believe mail in voting is no big deal. I'm all for it if you are physically unable to, you should be given that option, or if you have a previous condition.

The usps is severely understaffed and overworked right now ( anecdotal but spoke with my mail carrier last week and he has been double and triple routed for weeks due to layoffs and mismanagement) and like most government run organizations is managed terribly. Yet again, people want the government to run the most important thing in their lives, their health. All of it just is mindboggling to me why someone wants the government more in their lives.

[boozehound]

Yet many on here believe mail in voting is no big deal. I'm all for it if you are physically unable to, you should be given that option, or if you have a previous condition.

The usps is severely understaffed and overworked right now ( anecdotal but spoke with my mail carrier last week and he has been double and triple routed for weeks due to layoffs and mismanagement) and like most government run organizations is managed terribly. Yet again, people want the government to run the most important thing in their lives, their health. All of it just is mindboggling to me why someone wants the government more in their lives.

It's almost like we have a completely inept government right now.

I actually happen to be friends with the Postmaster of a very large (top 5) US City. They are definitely having major problems right now, but it isn't because they suddenly forgot how to run themselves after years and years. They are being dismantled from the top down.

It's a great argument for small government, though I suppose. Elect the biggest idiot you can find and then use that as evidence that the government can't be trusted to run anything.

[X-man]

Yet many on here believe mail in voting is no big deal. I'm all for it if you are physically unable to, you should be given that option, or if you have a previous condition.

The usps is severely understaffed and overworked right now ( anecdotal but spoke with my mail carrier last week and he has been double and triple routed for weeks due to layoffs and mismanagement) and like most government run organizations is managed terribly. Yet again, people want the government to run the most important thing in their lives, their health. All of it just is mindboggling to me why someone wants the government more in their lives.
Also underfunded thanks to "dear Leader".

[Xville]

Also underfunded thanks to "dear Leader".

Hilarious how you lefties twist things. As if the usps was a model organization before trump became president, hysterical. Maybe they should just throw money at it, right? Apparently there is just an endless supply of money...free tuition, reparations, free healthcare, free everything for illegals.

[Xville]

It's almost like we have a completely inept government right now.

I actually happen to be friends with the Postmaster of a very large (top 5) US City. They are definitely having major problems right now, but it isn't because they suddenly forgot how to run themselves after years and years. They are being dismantled from the top down.

It's a great argument for small government, though I suppose. Elect the biggest idiot you can find and then use that as evidence that the government can't be trusted to run anything.

Please.....government hasnt run anything well since the 80s..long before trump took office. You trump haters just cant help yourselves can you?

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump appointed a moron to dismantle the Post office so he can cut down on the expected avalanche of mail ballots during the covid crisis. So, yeah, he's a dumbass.

[X-man]

Trump appointed a moron to dismantle the Post office so he can cut down on the expected avalanche of mail ballots during the covid crisis. So, yeah, he's a dumbass.

And he has admitted precisely that. He's also said on more than one occasion that if universal mail-in ballots were allowed, Republicans would never win majorities in Washington.

[paulxu]

Most democracies do what they can to make voting (for all their citizens) as easy as possible.
Primarily by having a voting holiday, or weekend voting.
Mailing in ballots seems prudent during a pandemic, as an addition to in person voting.
To openly state you'll block funding because it might help mail in voting seems to be the antithesis of democracy to me.
I'm just saddened that we have a president with this sort of approach to a fundamental part of our government.

[Juice]

Most democracies do what they can to make voting (for all their citizens) as easy as possible.
Primarily by having a voting holiday, or weekend voting.
Mailing in ballots seems prudent during a pandemic, as an addition to in person voting.
To openly state you'll block funding because it might help mail in voting seems to be the antithesis of democracy to me.
I'm just saddened that we have a president with this sort of approach to a fundamental part of our government.

To openly continue to support mail in voting in spite of evidence in New York and Virginia is also the antithesis of democracy.

[Mrs. Garrett]

When even my dad says he's not voting Republican this time around you know Trump's goose is cooked with out large scale voter suppression.

[Xville]

When even my dad says he's not voting Republican this time around you know Trump's goose is cooked with out large scale voter suppression.

This will be the first time I will not be voting in a presidential election and though I dont think I'm in the majority of the people who regularly vote, I do believe many will also refuse to choose between a narcissist and a senile old man.

[Mrs. Garrett]

This will be the first time I will not be voting in a presidential election and though I dont think I'm in the majority of the people who regularly vote, I do believe many will also refuse to choose between a narcissist and a senile old man.

My dad also said he is not voting or will not vote for Biden either.

[X-man]

My dad also said he is not voting or will not vote for Biden either.

My son is a Bernie bro'. He only did the undervote in 2016 because he was so pissed at the DNC for screwing Bernie. Most of his friends felt and did the same according to him. This year he felt the same way, and planned to vote the same way again, until Trump sent his storm troopers into Portland. At that point, he decided that Trump is an existential threat to our democracy, and so he will vote for Biden. He tells me all his Bernie bro' friends feel the same way. Interesting how the pendulum moves.

[GoMuskies]

Weird that Portland was their breaking point. Honestly, nothing that has happened in Portland would push me towards wanting MORE Democrats in power, but opinions obviously vary.

UAE and Israel agreeing to normalize relations today seems like a good thing. Granted, a Muslim country where one is free to get sloshed in broad daylight in public SHOULDN'T be the most difficult one to get along with, but progress is progress.

[boozehound]

This will be the first time I will not be voting in a presidential election and though I dont think I'm in the majority of the people who regularly vote, I do believe many will also refuse to choose between a narcissist and a senile old man.

Which I think favors Biden, who has had the luxury of laying pretty low for a while. Trump's deep personality flaws and lack of ability to effectively run the country have been on full display for a while now. I still think Trump could dramatically swing the odds in his favor, but he won't have the discipline to do it. He'll just keep throwing rallies for his base because they make him feel good.

If Biden wins Trump will call the election rigged, but I think he ultimately will leave the White House (albeit in a blaze of sour grapes). I still don't think Trump actually wants to be President. He loves the blind adulation of his fan base, but not the actual job. If he loses he can just dismiss his loss as being the byproduct of some sort of system rigged against him and move on.

Unfortunately I think even that will be destructive to our Democracy, but not nearly as destructive as his attempting to refuse to accept the results.

[boozehound]

Weird that Portland was their breaking point. Honestly, nothing that has happened in Portland would push me towards wanting MORE Democrats in power, but opinions obviously vary.

UAE and Israel agreeing to normalize relations today seems like a good thing. Granted, a Muslim country where one is free to get sloshed in broad daylight in public SHOULDN'T be the most difficult one to get along with, but progress is progress.

You're probably not a Bernie Bro though.

[GoMuskies]

You're probably not a Bernie Bro though.

Fair point. If that's the crowd those guys support, I've just added like 100% more respect for the DNC for snubbing them. (That means not much TIMES TWO!!!)

[Xville]

My son is a Bernie bro'. He only did the undervote in 2016 because he was so pissed at the DNC for screwing Bernie. Most of his friends felt and did the same according to him. This year he felt the same way, and planned to vote the same way again, until Trump sent his storm troopers into Portland. At that point, he decided that Trump is an existential threat to our democracy, and so he will vote for Biden. He tells me all his Bernie bro' friends feel the same way. Interesting how the pendulum moves.

We now live in a world where some people think that controlling riots, looting and destroying city property is a bad thing. Crazy effing world we live in.

[Xville]

And now biden says we all need to wear masks outside for wait for it.....three months! Shocking that is his timeline. World has gone effing crazy.

[paulxu]

To openly continue to support mail in voting in spite of evidence in New York and Virginia is also the antithesis of democracy.

No, going to court to stop a state (Penn) from having vote drop boxes like Ohio is against democracy. Not an occasional mail problem.

Reminds me of the criticisms of the VA. Go into a couple of wars, generate a massive load on a medical system...and don't fund it.
Voting is important (in my mind) in a democracy. Allocate the funds necessary (and the personnel) to do it right.
Don't do things like pull sorting machines out of post offices.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump sez he will defund the Post Office to suppress the vote. He just lost my neighbors vote who I had to take to the Walgreens to get an emergency supply of medicine bcuz his prescriptions failed to come in the mail on time. First time in 20 years he said. WWII vet. 94 yrs. old.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

And now biden says we all need to wear masks outside for wait for it.....three months! Shocking that is his timeline. World has gone effing crazy.

We should have all been wearing masks for the last 6 months. But our idiot president refuses to do so and he’s convinced half the idiots in our country that a global pandemic is fake news.

[Juice]

We should have all been wearing masks for the last 6 months. But our idiot president refuses to do so and he’s convinced half the idiots in our country that a global pandemic is fake news.

1) Trump is wearing a mask now.
2) Please tell me how you would enforce a national mask mandate across all 50 states.
3) Please tell me how you enforce a national mask mandate while also defunding police and asking for less police intervention.

And we don't think the virus is fake news, we simply choose not to live in fear after weighing the risks and rewards. Wearing a mask outside is stupid and goes against the "science" you all talk about so much.

[bobbiemcgee]

Wearing a mask outside at Sturgis isn't so stupid. Trump is wearing a mask and now recommends it 6 months late after infections at the WH. So what is the big deal? We'll all be wearing them for the next 3 months anyway. We should have started in March. I've been wearing one on planes for a long time.

[XU '11]

Please explain. This statement makes no sense to me.

Here’s a rating of all members of Congress based on their voting record. Seems like an unbiased source. Rates Harris as the 2nd most liberal Senator, behind only Warren.

https://voteview.com/congress/senate

[X-man]

Here’s a rating of all members of Congress based on their voting record. Seems like an unbiased source. Rates Harris as the 2nd most liberal Senator, behind only Warren.

https://voteview.com/congress/senate

I'll go with Wall Street on this one.

[Muskie in dayton]

I'll go with Wall Street on this one.
The WSJ article was focused on Harris’ position on financial market and business regulation. The Voteview site was all things considered.

So if we’re real lucky, someone will point out to Biden that he lost his marbles, then we’ll have another 2008 financial collapse along with defunded police. But it’s not Trump.

[Xville]

Wearing a mask outside at Sturgis isn't so stupid. Trump is wearing a mask and now recommends it 6 months late after infections at the WH. So what is the big deal? We'll all be wearing them for the next 3 months anyway. We should have started in March. I've been wearing one on planes for a long time.

Saying we should all wear a mask outside for the next 3 months is what is stupid..wearing one inside a public place I'm all for it though I question its overall effectiveness.

1.) Timeline---gee I wonder if this is a political move? Hmm
2 ) Wearing a mask outside without any context is bs and doesnt follow any science that you all love so much.

[Xville]

I'll go with Wall Street on this one.

Of course you will, because it fits your opinion. The article focused on only 1-2 views not the whole sum game.

[Xville]

1) Trump is wearing a mask now.
2) Please tell me how you would enforce a national mask mandate across all 50 states.
3) Please tell me how you enforce a national mask mandate while also defunding police and asking for less police intervention.

And we don't think the virus is fake news, we simply choose not to live in fear after weighing the risks and rewards. Wearing a mask outside is stupid and goes against the "science" you all talk about so much.

3.) The social workers will have counseling sessions about enforcing masks...no worries

[boozehound]

1) Trump is wearing a mask now.
2) Please tell me how you would enforce a national mask mandate across all 50 states.
3) Please tell me how you enforce a national mask mandate while also defunding police and asking for less police intervention.

And we don't think the virus is fake news, we simply choose not to live in fear after weighing the risks and rewards. Wearing a mask outside is stupid and goes against the "science" you all talk about so much.

Trump spent like 4 months literally mocking wearing masks. He is presumably now wearing one because somebody convinced him it would be politically expedient. He's far from a vocal advocate for them, even now.

It's obviously difficult to enforce a mask mandate, however if we had just issued one and were consistent with the messaging I'll bet that the overwhelming majority of people would have worn them. It's probably too late at this point - we already have too many 'patriots' looking to turn the aisles of their local Costco into the OK Corral over their 'right' not to wear a mask in a private business.

I agree that wearing masks outside is stupid, unless you are attending an outdoor event with many people in close proximity, ala the Sturgis example. I think it's stupid to be holding or attending events like that though.

I really think we could have avoided a lot of the ongoing turmoil from COVID if we had just all worn masks and made some relatively minor changes to our lives for a relatively short period of time, coupled with any kind of coordinated national response and guidelines to help with contact tracing and isolation. We have a federal government with a level of incompetence that we have never seen before, IMO, and that was exposed here. Coordinating the response to National crises is a key role of federal government - that's something that Democrats and Republicans used to agree on.


The WSJ article was focused on Harris’ position on financial market and business regulation. The Voteview site was all things considered.

So if we’re real lucky, someone will point out to Biden that he lost his marbles, then we’ll have another 2008 financial collapse along with defunded police. But it’s not Trump.

I'm not really sure what this means. What about Biden's economic policies is likely to lead to a financial collapse? That just seems like unfounded doom and gloom - or perhaps the type of 'fear porn' that you are so against when it comes to the media's reaction to COVID.

[X-man]

Of course you will, because it fits your opinion. The article focused on only 1-2 views not the whole sum game.

Whatever. But I will point out that other than a few right-wing political sites, most of the sites I have seen characterize Harris as a moderate. No one but a Republican hack would call her extreme and place her (say) with "the Squad" in her views. But hey, whatever "fits your opinion".

[Juice]

Trump spent like 4 months literally mocking wearing masks. He is presumably now wearing one because somebody convinced him it would be politically expedient. He's far from a vocal advocate for them, even now.

It's obviously difficult to enforce a mask mandate, however if we had just issued one and were consistent with the messaging I'll bet that the overwhelming majority of people would have worn them. It's probably too late at this point - we already have too many 'patriots' looking to turn the aisles of their local Costco into the OK Corral over their 'right' not to wear a mask in a private business.

I agree that wearing masks outside is stupid, unless you are attending an outdoor event with many people in close proximity, ala the Sturgis example. I think it's stupid to be holding or attending events like that though.

I really think we could have avoided a lot of the ongoing turmoil from COVID if we had just all worn masks and made some relatively minor changes to our lives for a relatively short period of time, coupled with any kind of coordinated national response and guidelines to help with contact tracing and isolation. We have a federal government with a level of incompetence that we have never seen before, IMO, and that was exposed here. Coordinating the response to National crises is a key role of federal government - that's something that Democrats and Republicans used to agree on.



I'm not really sure what this means. What about Biden's economic policies is likely to lead to a financial collapse? That just seems like unfounded doom and gloom - or perhaps the type of 'fear porn' that you are so against when it comes to the media's reaction to COVID.

"However if we just issued something that is unconstitutional, not within presidential powers, and violates federalism...I'm sure everyone would be cool with it"

I'm a Trump supporter and I would have been livid if he issued a national mask mandate. I voted for Dewine but won't again because of his overreach during the covid stuff and long before it (raising taxes, raising the smoking age to 21) because civil liberties mean something to me.

[Lloyd Braun]

I remember when Obama was the most liberal Senator at the time he was elected. As it turns out, that did not translate to the most liberal Presidency.

[Smails]

Whatever. But I will point out that other than a few right-wing political sites, most of the sites I have seen characterize Harris as a moderate. No one but a Republican hack would call her extreme and place her (say) with "the Squad" in her views. But hey, whatever "fits your opinion".

There is nothing opinion-based about her Senate voting-record and by all measures her record says she's incredibly liberal. The fact that she speaks the moderate language is trumped by the fact that when it comes time to vote, she swings hard left. In 2018 and 2019 she was scored dead last in joining bi-partisan bills. You are what your record says you are...

[Smails]

I remember when Obama was the most liberal Senator at the time he was elected. As it turns out, that did not translate to the most liberal Presidency.

Agreed. The fact that he failed miserably to get gun control passed after Sandy Hook is certainly a stain on his legacy. Getting drilled in the 2010 mid-terms didn't help either.

[boozehound]

trump-falsely-claims-harris-might-not-be-us-citizen (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/13/trump-falsely-claims-harris-might-not-be-us-citizen/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_factchecker-tt-840pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)

Does anyone think this isn't racist? Holy shit.

[bobbiemcgee]

DeJoy removing the sorting machines from the Post Office should be grounds for dismissal. Third world stuff.

[boozehound]

DeJoy removing the sorting machines from the Post Office should be grounds for dismissal. Third world stuff.

It doesn't matter though. Trump is protecting civil liberties by not making people wear masks.

[Juice]

DeJoy removing the sorting machines from the Post Office should be grounds for dismissal. Third world stuff.


After publication, USPS spokesperson David Partenheimer told Motherboard, “The Postal Service routinely moves equipment around its network as necessary to match changing mail and package volumes. Package volume is up, but mail volume continues to decline. Adapting our processing infrastructure to the current volumes will ensure more efficient, cost effective operations and better service for our customers.”

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election



Jeryl Bier
@JerylBier
The USPS reported a 6.1% reduction in sorting machines from fiscal 2015 to 2016 (see below), so equipment reductions go back at least a few years. The
@USPS is not, however, being forthcoming in its replies to my inquiries about specific numbers so far in the past 2 days.

https://twitter.com/JerylBier/status/1294244533283237888

[Juice]

It doesn't matter though. Trump is protecting civil liberties by not making people wear masks.

Awwww, you mad that the president hasn't enacted a national mask mandate because you're scared to leave the house?

[noteggs]

There is nothing opinion-based about her Senate voting-record and by all measures her record says she's incredibly liberal. The fact that she speaks the moderate language is trumped by the fact that when it comes time to vote, she swings hard left. In 2018 and 2019 she was scored dead last in joining bi-partisan bills. You are what your record says you are...

Exactly. If you look at her voting record, bills introduced, and who she co-sponsored bills with, I would also say very liberal. Yes if you look through the subjective lens of MSM editorials today, she suddenly turns moderate...interesting.

I hope we can all agree GovTrack to be unbiased. If you’re liberal or conservative, they’ll let people know based off their record in Congress. Here is their article before the Democratic primary.

https://govtrackinsider.com/what-can-govtrack-data-tell-us-about-the-nine-most-recent-and-current-members-of-congress-running-14bc37b1f4b8

[Muskie in dayton]

I'm not really sure what this means. What about Biden's economic policies is likely to lead to a financial collapse? That just seems like unfounded doom and gloom - or perhaps the type of 'fear porn' that you are so against when it comes to the media's reaction to COVID.

I realize I crammed a lot into one sentence, so let me break it down for you:
- By saying that "someone points out Biden lost his marbles", I implied that he would leave office. Ergo, Harris is President.
- Since Harris seems lenient on business regulation (per WSJ), but she's still the second most liberal senator (per Voteview), one can derive that she's really damn liberal on everything else.
- Related to her leniency on business regulation, I jest that she'll support policy like that which lead to the 2008 financial market collapse.
- Also if since she's super liberal on other things there's a good chance that she roots for the robbers over the cops, and wants to defund the police.
- The sentence also includes some subtle sarcasm, as I don't like businesses gone wild, I don't like defunded police, and I really don't like Trump.
Hopefully that was helpful.

Edit: I’m glad I’m getting through to recognize the MSM fear porn.

[X Factor]

Kevin Clinesmith, a former top lawyer in James Comey's FBI, is expected to plead guilty to falsifying a federal spy warrant against Carter Page.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/14/kevin-clinesmith-corrupt-fbi-attorney-who-falsified-carter-page-fisa-warrant-expected-to-plead-guilty/


A top FBI lawyer who fabricated evidence in a federal spy warrant against Trump campaign affiliate Carter Page is expected to plead guilty to federal charges brought by U.S. Attorney John Durham. Kevin Clinesmith, who is expected to admit to deliberately fabricating evidence in a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant application, used to spy on a former campaign affiliate of President Donald Trump, was a top attorney in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Office of General Counsel (OGC) and a key agency attorney under fired former FBI Director James Comey.

[Smails]

Kevin Clinesmith, a former top lawyer in James Comey's FBI, is expected to plead guilty to falsifying a federal spy warrant against Carter Page.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/14/kevin-clinesmith-corrupt-fbi-attorney-who-falsified-carter-page-fisa-warrant-expected-to-plead-guilty/

Nothing to see here....move along

[bobbiemcgee]

Awwww, you mad that the president hasn't enacted a national mask mandate because you're scared to leave the house?

I don't get the anti-mask thing. If it's 10 below zero, put on a coat.

[MADXSTER]

Halloween is going to be pretty interesting this year. Super Heroes all wearing masks. Hobo's wearing masks. Robots wearing masks.

[STL_XUfan]

Halloween is going to be pretty interesting this year. Super Heroes all wearing masks. Hobo's wearing masks. Robots wearing masks.
Oh god, I just thought about the upcoming fights over the right to trick or treat. Can we just fast forward to 2021?

[X-band '01]

Kevin Clinesmith, a former top lawyer in James Comey's FBI, is expected to plead guilty to falsifying a federal spy warrant against Carter Page.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/14/kevin-clinesmith-corrupt-fbi-attorney-who-falsified-carter-page-fisa-warrant-expected-to-plead-guilty/


Nothing to see here....move along

Does anyone outside of Fox News, the other alt-right network, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity even give a damn about this right now?

[XU_Lou]

Does anyone outside of Fox News, the other alt-right network, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity even give a damn about this right now?

So typical - just like Hillary Clinton's Benghazi scandal, or her email scandal - stonewall, stonewall and stonewall for years, and then declare the story is so old it doesn't matter anymore....

[bobbiemcgee]

7 benghazi hearings...I think the 'pubs beat that one to death. They don't even want to hear about it anymore.

[X Factor]

Does anyone outside of Fox News, the other alt-right network, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity even give a damn about this right now?

You should if you care about truth and justice.

[paulxu]

Let's check back at the end of year 4.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWAuJ5jWsAMWnFZ.jpg

[XU_Lou]

Let's check back at the end of year 4.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWAuJ5jWsAMWnFZ.jpg

Total and complete fake news....

[Xville]

Let's check back at the end of year 4.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWAuJ5jWsAMWnFZ.jpg

Lol did you get this from republicansarethedevil.com? This is bs.

[Lloyd Braun]

Yea that graph is inaccurate, but not complete and total BS, just the Trump data. Here is the analysis of the original graph and the methodology used to make conclusions. It has not been updated to include any more info since 23 months ago. It’s a left leaning website, but actually corrects the numbers back to earth with more accuracy.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/9/18/1796668/-UPDATED-Comparing-Presidential-Administrations-by-felony-arrests-and-convictions-as-of-9-17-2018

[paulxu]

Didn't mean to distort. I think some of the Trump data might include congressmen who supported him, etc. rather than just administration people.
And it also includes Russian indictments which are of course not in the administration. The prison sentences do need to be updated.

Thanks for the correction.

[GoMuskies]

How many post office truthers do we have around here?

[bjf123]

How many post office truthers do we have around here?

I think it’s true that the Post Office exists and is in serious financial trouble. Does that count? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[STL_XUfan]

I think it’s true that the Post Office exists and is in serious financial trouble. Does that count? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean but how do you really know? Have you ever demanded to see in the back? ANTIFA uses it as a staging ground.

[XU_Lou]

Effing animals in Portland - this is the Democrat party - that must be destroyed: https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1295233180899790850?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1295233180899790850%7Ctwgr% 5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revolver.news%2F

More info here: https://www.nationalistreview.net/2020/08/14/exclusive-antifa-stalks-owner-of-truck-they-destroyed-vandalizes-his-home-driver-potentially-facing-charges-for-his-self-defense/

[xudash]

Effing animals in Portland - this is the Democrat party - that must be destroyed: https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1295233180899790850?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1295233180899790850%7Ctwgr% 5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revolver.news%2F

More info here: https://www.nationalistreview.net/2020/08/14/exclusive-antifa-stalks-owner-of-truck-they-destroyed-vandalizes-his-home-driver-potentially-facing-charges-for-his-self-defense/

You liberals must be so proud.

[paulxu]

Protesters who turn violent and destroy property no more represent the Democratic party, than the right wing fascist Nazis marching in Charlottesville represent the Republican party.

[Xville]

Protesters who turn violent and destroy property no more represent the Democratic party, than the right wing fascist Nazis marching in Charlottesville represent the Republican party.

Republicans dont have nazi symbols all over their favorite sports...libs have employed blm signage all over the freaking place..maybe they need a new phrase to separate themselves from the marxist crazy blm corp

By the way, I find that phrase perplexing because the fact is, they sure dont matter in the west end of louisville where there are shootings every night, sure dont matter in the south side of chicago.

[GoMuskies]

Republicans dont have nazi symbols all over their favorite sports...libs have employed blm signage all over the freaking place..maybe they need a new phrase to separate themselves from the marxist crazy blm corp

Yes, this is why I hope the Big East ultimately decides to avoid their planned BLM logos. Saying that black lives matter is not controversial, and everyone should believe that. Saying that one supports BLM is more troublesome. Particularly if you are forcing everyone to at least pretend to support it through uniform patches.

[xudash]

Protesters who turn violent and destroy property no more represent the Democratic party, than the right wing fascist Nazis marching in Charlottesville represent the Republican party.

You just compared a one-off case of a nut job to many multiple cases of Far Left radical destruction in multiple US cities.

The protesters who are turning violent and destroying cities (cities that, by the way, are controlled by Democrats) ARE DEMOCRATS. You don’t get to go down that deflecting road, Paul. Your party is kowtowing to the Far Left. That is simply a fact.

Though not an example of a violent incident, AOC was caught putting out a Twitter statement that discussed keeping things shut down so that the economy would be hurt so that Trump would not be reelected, that is an example of the Far Left and the Democratic Party being harmful to the best interests of the United States. The Democratic Party is chuck full of Far Left morons, including the people who are looting, burning and beating up innocent people.

[X Factor]

Protesters who turn violent and destroy property no more represent the Democratic party, than the right wing fascist Nazis marching in Charlottesville represent the Republican party.

Disgusting Paul. You support this behavior.

Did you read the tweets, watch the video, and read the article?

[xudash]

WE DON'T WANT JACKSONVILLE TO TURN INTO NYC.

From John Clegg:

A few days ago, we drove up to New York as my daughter’s lease was expiring and we had to move out her belongings.

I was expecting the city to be depressed. But I was not ready for what we witnessed!

About one tenth of usual number of people on the streets. Only restaurants with tables on street in business. Graffiti everywhere. Many shop windows still broken.

We put a Murphy bed for sale on Craig’s list. A very nice black guy from the Bronx bought it. He said it is TERRIBLE there now. He said that everyone is fearful for their lives with no police anywhere to be seen. He is getting out...moving to Queen’s. So the irony is the BLM movement and defunding the police is hurting minorities the most! Tragic!

The movers said they are incredibly busy. The guy said, “I would say around 40% have moved out. They are all going to Florida, Colorado etc. No one wants to live here.”

We had some food in the cupboards so we boxed it up and took it to a nearby Ministry which feeds the poor. There was a very long line outside the building. The most sad thing was the look of total hopelessness on their faces.

I used to go to New York quite often. I have NEVER seen a city (or anything else) decline so rapidly. It was astonishing!

The Mayor Bill De Blasio is pursuing Socialist policies and this is the result. Do we want the rest of the country to follow New York’s tragic example?

[GoMuskies]

Re: New York City

Not a particularly sunny read.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nyc-dead-forever-heres-why-james-altucher

[paulxu]

Why would anything I have ever said indicate I condone the destruction of property, or violence against other people.

You live in a cave though if you think it's a one-sided problem.

[paulxu]

Though not an example of a violent incident, AOC was caught putting out a Twitter statement that discussed keeping things shut down so that the economy would be hurt so that Trump would not be reelected, that is an example of the Far Left and the Democratic Party being harmful to the best interests of the United States.

Dash, you didn't get sucked into that fake story did you? Be careful what you watch or listen to. It seems to have come from a Republican congressional candidate in Florida.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/14/fact-check-aoc-didnt-tweet-keeping-economy-shut-down/5352149002/

[xudash]

Dash, you didn't get sucked into that fake story did you? Be careful what you watch or listen to. It seems to have come from a Republican congressional candidate in Florida.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/14/fact-check-aoc-didnt-tweet-keeping-economy-shut-down/5352149002/

Paul, we have come to this: if USA today is the source, then it has no credibility with me.

Otherwise, whether she posted it directly or not, that is exactly the way AOC thinks. She is Far Left. And she is a registered Democrat. These are the facts of the case.

[paulxu]

Dash, it wasn't USA today as a "source."

The source of the story about AOC saying what was alleged was a tweet by the Republican candidate for congress, which was screenshot and posted on Facebook.

At least if you disagree with a policy, don't use some made up crap. Use her actual policy statements.

[xudash]

Dash, it wasn't USA today as a "source."

The source of the story about AOC saying what was alleged was a tweet by the Republican candidate for congress, which was screenshot and posted on Facebook.

At least if you disagree with a policy, don't use some made up crap. Use her actual policy statements.

Paul, please allow me to ask you a direct question: is AOC a far left liberal?

Pardon me, but it is as though you are deflecting again.

Is AOC a far left liberal? Her policy beliefs are terrible.

Are the cities that are presently burning in turmoil governed by Democrats?

Is the mayor of NYC an effective mayor?

Your Democratic Party has been pulled too far to the left. There is no denying that. You should be upset about that.

Shall we get into the Democratic VP candidate’s early political “history”?

[X Factor]

Why would anything I have ever said indicate I condone the destruction of property, or violence against other people.

You live in a cave though if you think it's a one-sided problem.

Show me were Conservatives in mass numbers are destroying neighborhoods, looting, pulling people out of their vehicles and beating them, setting private businesses on fire, etc.

It pretty much is a one-sided problem.

Here's an opinion piece from three years ago: It's only gotten worse from the Left.


There have been no right-wing groups storming campuses and flinging feces at speakers we don't like; no tea party mobs destroying property, assaulting police officers, and paralyzing our major cities; and no Republican senators calling their colleagues murderers just weeks after a political assassination attemp (Steve Scalise).

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-liberals-antifa-violence-20170718-story.html

[bobbiemcgee]

Show me were Conservatives in mass numbers are destroying neighborhoods, looting, pulling people out of their vehicles and beating them, setting private businesses on fire, etc.
[/URL]

Here's a few:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/aug/28/in-the-name-of-trump-supporters-attacks-database

[paulxu]

Dash, to answer your question, AOC is a liberal. Near left or far left are open to discussion. There sure are some who are farther left.
She wants things like good climate policy, health insurance for more people, and other things characterized as "left."
That's my answer. And like Kennedy, I am proud to be a liberal because it means being interested in making things better, for everyone.

So I have one question for you.
Why does a Republican candidate for the United States Congress feel the need to post something and attribute it to AOC when it was not from her?
If he wanted to characterize his stance as being different, why not use her actual own words?
Why make up something?

[Juice]

You just compared a one-off case of a nut job to many multiple cases of Far Left radical destruction in multiple US cities.

The protesters who are turning violent and destroying cities (cities that, by the way, are controlled by Democrats) ARE DEMOCRATS. You don’t get to go down that deflecting road, Paul. Your party is kowtowing to the Far Left. That is simply a fact.

Though not an example of a violent incident, AOC was caught putting out a Twitter statement that discussed keeping things shut down so that the economy would be hurt so that Trump would not be reelected, that is an example of the Far Left and the Democratic Party being harmful to the best interests of the United States. The Democratic Party is chuck full of Far Left morons, including the people who are looting, burning and beating up innocent people.

Let's not forget that Ayanna Pressley called for more civil unrest.

[xuphan]

Show me were Conservatives in mass numbers are destroying neighborhoods, looting, pulling people out of their vehicles and beating them, setting private businesses on fire, etc.

It pretty much is a one-sided problem.

Here's an opinion piece from three years ago: It's only gotten worse from the Left.



https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-liberals-antifa-violence-20170718-story.html

Wonder why a conservative would want to destroy the environment. I mean I get the idea of boosting the economy but is it really worth the long term damage of destroying the environment. I don’t think so.

[Xville]

Dash, to answer your question, AOC is a liberal. Near left or far left are open to discussion. There sure are some who are farther left.
She wants things like good climate policy, health insurance for more people, and other things characterized as "left."
That's my answer. And like Kennedy, I am proud to be a liberal because it means being interested in making things better, for everyone.

So I have one question for you.
Why does a Republican candidate for the United States Congress feel the need to post something and attribute it to AOC when it was not from her?
If he wanted to characterize his stance as being different, why not use her actual own words?
Why make up something?

Wait...did you in one paragraph seriously question whether aoc was left or far left, misrepresent her actual policies which are far more extreme than what you stated, say that lefty policies means making things better for everyone, and compare kennedy to today's democratic party. Wow...just wow. Like holy shit wow

[X Factor]

Wonder why a conservative would want to destroy the environment. I mean I get the idea of boosting the economy but is it really worth the long term damage of destroying the environment. I don’t think so.

What in the hell are you talking about? I thought you were banned?

[paulxu]

Here's your chance. Educate yourself on her actual positions, instead of believing what somewhat dreams up about her positions.

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/issues

I may not agree 100% with her on each one, but I'm not putting words in her mouth. She believes in health insurance for everyone, a good climate policy to protect the planet and create jobs.

[XU 87]

Here's your chance. Educate yourself on her actual positions, instead of believing what somewhat dreams up about her positions.

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/issues

I may not agree 100% with her on each one, but I'm not putting words in her mouth. She believes in health insurance for everyone, a good climate policy to protect the planet and create jobs.

Lol. Create jobs? She ran Amazon out of town before they even got there. She cost NYC about 50,000 jobs with that move. She’s a far left wing naive person who lives in a fantasy world, like the rest of her fellow leftists.

[Xville]

Here's your chance. Educate yourself on her actual positions, instead of believing what somewhat dreams up about her positions.

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/issues

I may not agree 100% with her on each one, but I'm not putting words in her mouth. She believes in health insurance for everyone, a good climate policy to protect the planet and create jobs.

I'm well aware of what her policies are...they are extremely far left. Why you are even questioning that, is odd. I think she has good intentions, shes just too stupid to realize that fantasyland isnt real, and actions have consequences.

[Juice]

Here's your chance. Educate yourself on her actual positions, instead of believing what somewhat dreams up about her positions.

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/issues

I may not agree 100% with her on each one, but I'm not putting words in her mouth. She believes in health insurance for everyone, a good climate policy to protect the planet and create jobs.

A good climate policy? Like the one in California that is now experiencing rolling blackouts?

[XU 87]

Does anyone outside of Fox News, the other alt-right network, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity even give a damn about this right now?

No one in the MSM cares about it because this doesn’t fit their narrative of “Trump is bad. Democrats are good.“ The end justifies the means.

And it’s sad that educated liberals like you think that’s perfectly fine. Who cares if the FBI fabricated documents to spy on US citizens?

[xuphan]

United we stand divided we fall. The whole liberal/conservative thing is just getting out of hand. Be American and hold both sides accountable. To be honest, they both are doing a terrible job of representing the citizens of this country.

[paulxu]

Fascinating listening to Republicans speaking during the Democratic convention.

Kasich speaking now.

[bjf123]

Here's a few:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/aug/28/in-the-name-of-trump-supporters-attacks-database

I didn’t read through every entry, but most, if not all, events appeared to be the actions of a single person, all of whom most conservatives would condemn. That’s very different than the actions of large groups of people rioting, looting, closing campuses to opposing views, etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Xville]

Saw cuomo called the coronavirus, the European virus...I'm sure cnn will call him a racist any moment now. It is pretty amazing though how both sides just completely lie their asses off without any concern.

[Juice]

Fascinating listening to Republicans speaking during the Democratic convention.

Kasich speaking now.

As fascinating as Joe Lieberman speaking at the RNC?

[XU_Lou]

I didn’t read through every entry, but most, if not all, events appeared to be the actions of a single person, all of whom most conservatives would condemn. That’s very different than the actions of large groups of people rioting, looting, closing campuses to opposing views, etc.


Exactly!

Back in the day the militant arm of the Democrat Party would hide behind white hoods - now they hind behind surgical masks and phony social media names.

[Muskie in dayton]

United we stand divided we fall. The whole liberal/conservative thing is just getting out of hand. Be American and hold both sides accountable. To be honest, they both are doing a terrible job of representing the citizens of this country.
Says the guy whose post before this was inflammatory anti-conservative rhetoric. You may want to stick to complaining about the recruits we miss.

[X-band '01]

John Kasich might be the one guy to really unite the country by pissing off both far-left Democrats and Republicans alike. Way to go Gov!

[xucub]

Michelle Obama is always quoted for "when they go low, we go high." News clippings are showing she went pretty low last night in her speech. Like her husband, she wins acclaim for a speech - not for anything she has accomplished (which is very little). How did that school lunch program work, Michelle?

[Xville]

Michelle Obama is always quoted for "when they go low, we go high." News clippings are showing she went pretty low last night in her speech. Like her husband, she wins acclaim for a speech - not for anything she has accomplished (which is very little). How did that school lunch program work, Michelle?

We live in an era where if you deliver words well, that's all that matters, not actual substance.

[STL_XUfan]

Trump pardoning a hardened criminal like Susan B. Anthony. So much for the presidency of law and order.

[xudash]

Dash, to answer your question, AOC is a liberal. Near left or far left are open to discussion. There sure are some who are farther left.
She wants things like good climate policy, health insurance for more people, and other things characterized as "left."
That's my answer. And like Kennedy, I am proud to be a liberal because it means being interested in making things better, for everyone.

So I have one question for you.
Why does a Republican candidate for the United States Congress feel the need to post something and attribute it to AOC when it was not from her?
If he wanted to characterize his stance as being different, why not use her actual own words?
Why make up something?

Paul, you asked me a question - - I'll give you my answer. ANY candidate, Republican or Democrat, who disseminates false information about a political rival is flat out wrong. It happens all the time in both directions, but that doesn't make it right and it leads to an ill-informed citizenry.

With that noted, allow me to point out that you literally just asked "why make up something?" Well, I agree with you. One falsified tweet like that is bad form and inappropriate. But, damn, when an opposition party - the Democrats - try to take down a sitting President through a maze of fabricated bullshit that leads to a circus of an impeachment proceeding, not to mention when the same opposition party earlier attempted to smear an honorable Supreme Court candidate, I'd say all that is taking "making something up" to an art form. Enough has already been uncovered with the FBI's conduct to know that all of that was a sad mess. Please don't come back withs snippets that suggest otherwise. Pelosi and Schiff played a dangerous game with all this and lost.

I know you, in the sense that you and I (and nuts) had the pleasure of meeting one another in Dana's one day. I enjoyed your company. I think nuts is a hoot. I know you to be a good person.

I do want to make sure you know a few things about me:

I am a fiscal conservative - - it's really simple math; spending more than you take in over time caves in the whole smash at some point.

I am a moderate on social policy - - I sit on the board of a charitable agency here. I believe in helping the needy. We are Jesuit trained after all. This is NOT a Democrat versus Republican or Left versus Right issue. There are MILLIONS of Republicans who give back and work actively in their communities. It would be pompous and sanctimonious of any Liberal to believe that only liberals are capable of having a heart and compassion.

I want good climate policy - - the emphasis is on "GOOD POLICY'. AOC is literally stupid, based on her specific recommendations. More importantly, without HONEST cooperation from China, in particular, this is going to be a tough road. This should involve a TRANSITIONAL strategy: as old energy source assets wind down and as viable new energy sources come available, migrate accordingly.

Health insurance - - health insurance in some form for U.S. citizens should exist. I think they call that Medicaid at the bottom. It isn't an issue for the people at the top. It is a rather large mess for those in the middle. It should not be provided for free to illegals.

Frankly, and I truly am not trying to put words in your mouth, so to speak, but I would be deeply alarmed right now if I were a Democrat. The Democratic Party is the face of BLM, burning cities, looting and rioting. Its candidate for the Presidency is a D.C. lifer who has accomplished virtually nothing, except for enriching his own family members through his political connections. His running mate had a little too much fun with Willie Brown's willie during an affair that she used to sleep her way on top, er, to the top.

These are your peeps, Paul.

On the other hand, we have a pompous, arrogant, confident New Yorker who at least pursues actions and policies that favor the United States:

1. His dealings with China are masterful and may protect us into the 21st Century, though they'll cheat wherever they can as a communist regime.
2. He got us out of the Iran deal, which was truly one of the dumbest foreign policy moves ever pursued.
3. He got us out of the Paris Accord, which was truly a stupid and incomplete approach to climate policy.
4. He knows how to manage an economy - he is a sharp businessman; evidenced by trade deals, Dow's performance and job growth.

We'll leave it at that, understanding that he isn't "presidential" and that he has his other faults. AT THE VERY LEAST, HE SEEMS TO MOSTLY CARE FOR WHAT IS BEST FOR THE UNITED STATES. HE HAS CONVICTION. Biden doesn't know how to spell the word. Harris can only concentrate on how to blow the word.

[xubrew]

To the many of you who do not like Donald Trump, a hypothetical question for you....

You have to choose ONE. Choosing neither is NOT an option!


A) Trump wins reelection in 2020.

B) Trump loses reelection, but runs again in 2024 and wins then.


Option B is not unfathomable. Even if he loses and either leaves office or is forced out of office, I think it's a little naive to think he will just go away quietly. Unless he is actually put away, he won't go away, and neither will his supporters.

[GoMuskies]

I'll take option B. I don't think Joe Biden is too bad, and I'd take 4 years of Biden over the uncertainty of what we might get in 2024 (if we're going to be forced to deal with 4 more years of Trump either way).

[paulxu]

Dash,
I concur with many of the things you said...and of course enjoyed our time at Dana's and look forward to the next one. (My turn to buy)
But for every one of your points, certainly there is another well thought out side, and belittling thoughtful efforts is not a style I would have thought you would adopt.

My brother worked for 45+ years in arms control and disarmament. Today in his late 70's he advises the Vatican at the United Nations on nuclear policy.
He believes, and I share his stance, that the JCPOA with Iran was a good deal, and we should have stuck with it.
Somehow everything that Obama did or favored, Trump seems to want to dismantle. That was a good example.

I don't find a person who has gone bankrupt many times, including casinos, as a "sharp businessman." Anything but really.
However, he was excellent as a reality TV star, and parlayed that into the presidency. I don't think that prepared him for the job any more than the reality TV successful Kardashians.

A lot of people have left his administration with grave reservations about his competency as president. Tillerson, Mattis, Kelly, Bolton, etc.
These are guys with good solid credentials and standouts in the Republican universe. I would hope you would heed their cautionary words.

I'm with them, and people like George Will and Bill Kristol. They understand that Trump doesn't really care for our country. He cares for himself, first and foremost. I don't believe that has served us well.

See you at Dana's...and I hope it's not too long from now.

[STL_XUfan]

Dash,
Today in his late 70's he advises the Vatican at the United Nations on nuclear policy.


This is a sentence I never expected to read. I mean it makes sense, but I would have never thought that the Vatican would have its own advisor on nuclear policy.

[boozehound]

To the many of you who do not like Donald Trump, a hypothetical question for you....

You have to choose ONE. Choosing neither is NOT an option!


A) Trump wins reelection in 2020.

B) Trump loses reelection, but runs again in 2024 and wins then.


Option B is not unfathomable. Even if he loses and either leaves office or is forced out of office, I think it's a little naive to think he will just go away quietly. Unless he is actually put away, he won't go away, and neither will his supporters.

B for sure. Definitely don't want another 4 years of Trump right now. At least option B gives us a breather.

I'm hopeful that a sound defeat of Trump in 2020 will give the Republicans time to get back to a platform that I can get on board with again, at least to some degree. Focus on fiscal conservatism and ignore all the social issues bullshit. Run a coherent foreign policy. Actually care about corruption in government.

I'm not concerned about Biden, but I am a little concerned about Liberalism run amok if the Democrats manage to take all three branches followed by an equally strong conservative backlash in 2024. I don't think turmoil is going for any country, particularly one that is the size of the USA.

[XU_Lou]

Looks like Keese Love has become the face of the Democrat Party: https://twitter.com/CovfefeKatie/status/1295807243363823616

https://twitter.com/search?q=keese%20love&src=recent_search_click&f=live

[xudash]

Dash,
I concur with many of the things you said...and of course enjoyed our time at Dana's and look forward to the next one. (My turn to buy)
But for every one of your points, certainly there is another well thought out side, and belittling thoughtful efforts is not a style I would have thought you would adopt.

My brother worked for 45+ years in arms control and disarmament. Today in his late 70's he advises the Vatican at the United Nations on nuclear policy.
He believes, and I share his stance, that the JCPOA with Iran was a good deal, and we should have stuck with it.
Somehow everything that Obama did or favored, Trump seems to want to dismantle. That was a good example.

I don't find a person who has gone bankrupt many times, including casinos, as a "sharp businessman." Anything but really.
However, he was excellent as a reality TV star, and parlayed that into the presidency. I don't think that prepared him for the job any more than the reality TV successful Kardashians.

A lot of people have left his administration with grave reservations about his competency as president. Tillerson, Mattis, Kelly, Bolton, etc.
These are guys with good solid credentials and standouts in the Republican universe. I would hope you would heed their cautionary words.

I'm with them, and people like George Will and Bill Kristol. They understand that Trump doesn't really care for our country. He cares for himself, first and foremost. I don't believe that has served us well.

See you at Dana's...and I hope it's not too long from now.

Look forward to seeing you there as well, and hope it’s not too long as well.

We’ll agree to disagree on a few things. Trump has a net worth in excess of $2B. Many successful people fail along the way, but most failing people don’t navigate their way to any substantial net worth, let alone NW that exceeds a billion dollars. BTW, Trump donates his salary every year, and their are numerous examples of philanthropic activity on his part. Virtually everything that comes out of his mouth - when it is not about him - is patriotic. His policies are focused on the best interests of the United States. I believe you are a little too close minded when it comes to Trump, and that is me fully understanding that he is no panacea. Bolton? George Will! My God.

Anyone who thinks that working with the Iranian regime on a proactive basis is a good thing should buy a second home there and put up an American flag in their front yard.

Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NYC, Baltimore....are a mess. BLM is not about B. L. M. The Democratic Party continues to play the race card. Pelosi and Schumer are its principal mouthpieces.

We survived 1968. I suppose we can make it through this cluster.

[bobbiemcgee]

..... and their are numerous examples of philanthropic activity on his part.

Like when he stole from his own foundation, got caught and actually admitted it? He's barred from ever heading a charitable non-profit but not a Country?

[paulxu]

This is a sentence I never expected to read. I mean it makes sense, but I would have never thought that the Vatican would have its own advisor on nuclear policy.

The Vatican has some sort of standing at the UN (not sure exactly what) but I don't think its full voting status.
They do however, as you might imagine, have a deep interest in world peace...and having the threat of nuclear war reduced as much as possible.
That's where my brother comes in from his years in ACDA and the State Department, working on disarmament and associated treaties.
He's a Georgetown grad who spent a few years in the Jeebies before leaving, and has lots of friends in that community, and has worked on the issues for years. So, the Vatican uses him pro bono as an advisor in his retirement, when they attend/speak at UN conferences on those issues.

[paulxu]

Anyone who thinks that working with the Iranian regime on a proactive basis is a good thing should buy a second home there and put up an American flag in their front yard.

That's just the thing, you work with them like Reagan...trust and verify.
Remember Iraq? No weapons of mass destruction, but we had the inspectors kicked out who were proving that so we could go in.

Same deal with Iran. From the JCPOA, we essentially got this;

Under JCPOA, Iran agreed to eliminate its stockpile of medium-enriched uranium, cut its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 98%, and reduce by about two-thirds the number of its gas centrifuges for 13 years.

Just as important, they allowed inspectors on the ground to verify. All Europe nuclear powers were on board.
Now that's gone. The only reason I can see is that Obama signed it, and Trump is set on undoing anything Obama did.

I'm not sure we are better off, or that the mid-east is safer as a result.