Politics Thread

[GoMuskies]

Speaking of Vietnam, idiots trying to figure out how to dodge a non-existent draft crashed the Selective Service website today.

[vee4xu]

So, let me get this straight. President Trump believes the "Deep State" info when he can kill people to offer a shiny object to his upcoming impeachment trail, but doesn't believe the same "Deep State" when they implicate the people who are part of the reason he's being impeached? Oh, okay, got it. Whew, glad we got that all figured out. I feel much better now.

[Xville]

So, let me get this straight. President Trump believes the "Deep State" info when he can kill people to offer a shiny object to his upcoming impeachment trail, but doesn't believe the same "Deep State" when they implicate the people who are part of the reason he's being impeached? Oh, okay, got it. Whew, glad we got that all figured out. I feel much better now.

You should feel better...another middle east terrorist has been wiped from the map.

[GoMuskies]

I can't believe anyone actually believes Trump did this to distract from impeachment, as if that's a real problem for him. Do any of those people notice that Trump's approval ratings hit all time highs just as the articles were drafted? Did they think that was a coincidence?

[Xville]

I can't believe anyone actually believes Trump did this to distract from impeachment, as if that's a real problem for him. Do any of those people notice that Trump's approval ratings hit all time highs just as the articles were drafted? Did they think that was a coincidence?

I too find it hysterical...I also find it hysterical when people actually believe he isnt going to get reelected. The only chance of that happening is if the economy tanks, which has been predicted by the democrats for 3 years.

[bjf123]

I too find it hysterical...I also find it hysterical when people actually believe he isnt going to get reelected. The only chance of that happening is if the economy tanks, which has been predicted by the democrats for 3 years.

While I hope he gets re-elected, I’m not as confident. The media will be doing everything they can to make sure that doesn’t happen.


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[Juice]

While I hope he gets re-elected, I’m not as confident. The media will be doing everything they can to make sure that doesn’t happen.


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I think that helps Trump. Every little thing, story, alleged scandal, etc. that is rammed down our throats by the media emboldens Trump supporters. And I believe it turns centrist voters away from the media and far left Dems.

[bobbiemcgee]

Do any of those people notice that Trump's approval ratings hit all time highs just as the articles were drafted? Did they think that was a coincidence?

Haven't really seen that:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

[Strange Brew]

I’ll take who is Anwar al-Awlaki for a $100 Alex. People seem to have very short memories. Stink of it is he was an American citizen.

[GoMuskies]

Haven't really seen that:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Looks to me like that 43.5 on December 18 is his highest approval rating in over two years.

And fair enough that I said "all-time" which was the wrong word. But it was the highest in a long time in the wake of impeachment.

[Caf]

Is anyone here actually in favor of continued US intervention abroad and especially the Middle East without qualification? Trump and Obama partially ran on criticizing GWB's Middle East policy only to go on to proliferate it. Every instance of furthering our involvement, including this, makes some sense at the time. But I think the people want a return to isolationism. We and our leaders just don't have the restraint or willingness to pull it off.

[scoscox]

Is anyone here actually in favor of continued US intervention abroad and especially the Middle East without qualification? Trump and Obama partially ran on criticizing GWB's Middle East policy only to go on to proliferate it. Every instance of furthering our involvement, including this, makes some sense at the time. But I think the people want a return to isolationism. We and our leaders just don't have the restraint or willingness to pull it off.

I'd be more than happy to never hear about anything happening in the middle east ever again. our foreign policy has revolved around the area for going on 50 years. i couldn't be more sick of it

[Xville]

Is anyone here actually in favor of continued US intervention abroad and especially the Middle East without qualification? Trump and Obama partially ran on criticizing GWB's Middle East policy only to go on to proliferate it. Every instance of furthering our involvement, including this, makes some sense at the time. But I think the people want a return to isolationism. We and our leaders just don't have the restraint or willingness to pull it off.

I'd be in favor of blowing up the entire region. The world would be a better place without the middle east.

Either that or let them blow each other up. That region has been fighting for thousands of years...its never going to change.

[bobbiemcgee]

Spent trillions of dollars and many American lives and now Iraq wants to kick us out. I say flip them the bird and hit the road. Yeah, we killed another killer. There's a lot more killers out there than we have bombs. Maybe we can fly a few drones into the fentanyl factories in China. How about El Chapo's buddies in Mexico? SUV's full of drug dealers blowing up all over Mexico. These are the people responsible for hundreds of thousands of dead Americans.

[scoscox]

Spent trillions of dollars and many American lives and now Iraq wants to kick us out. I say flip them the bird and hit the road. Yeah, we killed another killer. There's a lot more killers out there than we have bombs. Maybe we can fly a few drones into the fentanyl factories in China. How about El Chapo's buddies in Mexico? SUV's full of drug dealers blowing up all over Mexico. These are the people responsible for hundreds of thousands of dead Americans.

couldn't agree more. if we had any sort of self respecting government this is what would be happening.

[Xville]

Spent trillions of dollars and many American lives and now Iraq wants to kick us out. I say flip them the bird and hit the road. Yeah, we killed another killer. There's a lot more killers out there than we have bombs. Maybe we can fly a few drones into the fentanyl factories in China. How about El Chapo's buddies in Mexico? SUV's full of drug dealers blowing up all over Mexico. These are the people responsible for hundreds of thousands of dead Americans.

Or people could just not do drugs. That would help.

[bjf123]

Is anyone here actually in favor of continued US intervention abroad and especially the Middle East without qualification? Trump and Obama partially ran on criticizing GWB's Middle East policy only to go on to proliferate it. Every instance of furthering our involvement, including this, makes some sense at the time. But I think the people want a return to isolationism. We and our leaders just don't have the restraint or willingness to pull it off.

No idea if this is accurate. Just throwing it out there as a possibility. It’s easy for the person not in office, i.e. Obama and Trump in the above, to say they’d do something different than the President who’s in office. Once they get in the office and get fully briefed on the details of what’s going on, maybe they realize it’s not as clear cut as they thought.


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[scoscox]

Or people could just not do drugs. That would help.

to some extent, sure, but the opioids thing is particularly insidious because people are being prescribed these drugs by doctors, who get them pushed on them by pharmaceutical companies who know they're dangerous and addictive and just don't care

[scoscox]

No idea if this is accurate. Just throwing it out there as a possibility. It’s easy for the person not in office, i.e. Obama and Trump in the above, to say they’d do something different than the President who’s in office. Once they get in the office and get fully briefed on the details of what’s going on, maybe they realize it’s not as clear cut as they thought.


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right, the generals and the like flood them with information to keep them in places we don't need to be in

[Caf]

No idea if this is accurate. Just throwing it out there as a possibility. It’s easy for the person not in office, i.e. Obama and Trump in the above, to say they’d do something different than the President who’s in office. Once they get in the office and get fully briefed on the details of what’s going on, maybe they realize it’s not as clear cut as they thought.


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I think that's exactly it. It's definitely easier to preach about this stuff on the campaign trail than practice it in office.

There's also never going to be a convenient time to pull out of the region. It's more convenient today with our oil output, but I think that's potentially made the governments there more volatile and given us more room to interfere with lessened economic impact. I wish we took it as an opportunity to turn the other cheek and get out of there. I see absolutely zero evidence that our involvement has any positive impact.

[GoMuskies]

Looks like we're getting the fuck out of Iraq. We just have to send in a couple of guys to Windex the remains of Soleimani off the pavement, and then we're gone.

[Caf]

Looks like we're getting the fuck out of Iraq. We just have to send in a couple of guys to Windex the remains of Soleimani off the pavement, and then we're gone.

And now it's being reported that letter was sent by mistake.

[GoMuskies]

OK, that's a pretty brutal "mistake".

[bleedXblue]

These fing jackballs are a joke........seriously.

[boozehound]

These fing jackballs are a joke........seriously.

Pretty much. It's a JV administration. They chased out all the adults like Mattis and Kelly and are now left with the people who are still willing to work for this clown show. Turns out they might not be the best and brightest.

Essentially we have a Presidential administration being run like a family business. Trump is the patriarch and he is getting old and crazy. He has a bunch of his buddies and jackoff kids running around with nebulous roles and limited experience, but wielding great influence selectively and intermittently. People who have their shit together don't want to work in that environment.

[GoMuskies]

Congrats to the Sandman family.

https://www.fox19.com/2020/01/07/cnn-settles-lawsuit-with-nick-sandmann/

[bobbiemcgee]

Missiles hitting US Air base Iraq.

[Xville]

Can we turn the middle east into a parking lot already? Either bomb the ever living crap out of them, or let them all blow each other up. No more of this lets have ground troops there and try to make democracy happen there. It's never going to happen there.

We have been dealing with these stupid waste of space region for way too long.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Or just take the leash off of Israel and let them do their thing...

[bobbiemcgee]

Or just take the leash off of Israel and let them do their thing...

I for that...let them fight the wars without us.

[scoscox]

Or just take the leash off of Israel and let them do their thing...

they're more than happy to let us do it for them. netanyahu already denounced the attack. great ally

[Nigel Tufnel]

they're more than happy to let us do it for them. netanyahu already denounced the attack. great ally

If we get out of the region, Israel will have no choice but to turn the region into a parking lot for their own survival. I think the only thing that’s been keeping them from doing it for years was the US. I could be wrong though...

[scoscox]

If we get out of the region, Israel will have no choice but to turn the region into a parking lot for their own survival. I think the only thing that’s been keeping them from doing it for years was the US. I could be wrong though...

i'd be more than fine with doing that, but israel will do everything in their power to keep that from happening. they've said as much publicly. why put their soldiers in danger when we'll do it for them? the us isn't "keeping" israel from doing anything

[Nigel Tufnel]

i'd be more than fine with doing that, but israel will do everything in their power to keep that from happening. they've said as much publicly. why put their soldiers in danger when we'll do it for them? the us isn't "keeping" israel from doing anything

Ok. Won’t even pretend to know a lot about Middle East politics. I was always of the opinion, based on what little I have read, that the US for decades has held Israel back from being more aggressive against its enemies in the region.

Regardless, get out and let Israel take care of its business in the region. Because, unless I’m wrong again, Israel can take care of business in the Middle East.

[scoscox]

Ok. Won’t even pretend to know a lot about Middle East politics. I was always of the opinion, based on what little I have read, that the US for decades has held Israel back from being more aggressive against its enemies in the region.

Regardless, get out and let Israel take care of its business in the region. Because, unless I’m wrong again, Israel can take care of business in the Middle East.

Agreed. Even if they can't we should get out. it's not our responsiblity to ensure israel's sovereignty or peace in that area

[boozehound]

Ok. Won’t even pretend to know a lot about Middle East politics. I was always of the opinion, based on what little I have read, that the US for decades has held Israel back from being more aggressive against its enemies in the region.

Regardless, get out and let Israel take care of its business in the region. Because, unless I’m wrong again, Israel can take care of business in the Middle East.

I'm not sure that Israel can take on the entire Arab world. Israel has a population of around 8MM people. Iran has 80MM. Iraq 40MM. Saudi Arabia 32MM. I believe that Israel has a technically superior military, but I'm not sure if it's superior enough to take on multiple countries that are so much larger. Was protection of Israel one of the reasons we have been involved in the Middle East? That and Oil, of course.

Obviously in a perfect world we would never have gotten involved, but we did. I'm not really sure what happens when / if we pull out. It will very likely create a power vacuum that could end up getting filled with someone like Russia. I'm not sure we want them controlling that much of the world's oil.

This shit all sounds really simple, but I'm willing to bet it's not, and that's why multiple administrations with pretty different views on most topics have struggled to fine a way to exit. It will be a pleasant surprise if the pack of morons we have in the White House now are the ones who actually figure it out.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'm not sure that Israel can take on the entire Arab world. Israel has a population of around 8MM people. Iran has 80MM. Iraq 40MM. Saudi Arabia 32MM. I believe that Israel has a technically superior military, but I'm not sure if it's superior enough to take on multiple countries that are so much larger. Was protection of Israel one of the reasons we have been involved in the Middle East? That and Oil, of course.

Obviously in a perfect world we would never have gotten involved, but we did. I'm not really sure what happens when / if we pull out. It will very likely create a power vacuum that could end up getting filled with someone like Russia. I'm not sure we want them controlling that much of the world's oil.

This shit all sounds really simple, but I'm willing to bet it's not, and that's why multiple administrations with pretty different views on most topics have struggled to fine a way to exit. It will be a pleasant surprise if the pack of morons we have in the White House now are the ones who actually figure it out.

Good post. You’d think by now that both the US and Russia would realize messing around in countries that have been in a religious war for thousands of years is fool’s gold. The hubris of both countries makes me shake my head. Black gold, I guess...

[scoscox]

Good post. You’d think by now that both the US and Russia would realize messing around in countries that have been in a religious war for thousands of years is fool’s gold. The hubris of both countries makes me shake my head. Black gold, I guess...

Russia atleast has some territorial interests in the area. they're atleast on the same continent

[scoscox]

I'm not sure that Israel can take on the entire Arab world. Israel has a population of around 8MM people. Iran has 80MM. Iraq 40MM. Saudi Arabia 32MM. I believe that Israel has a technically superior military, but I'm not sure if it's superior enough to take on multiple countries that are so much larger. Was protection of Israel one of the reasons we have been involved in the Middle East? That and Oil, of course.

Obviously in a perfect world we would never have gotten involved, but we did. I'm not really sure what happens when / if we pull out. It will very likely create a power vacuum that could end up getting filled with someone like Russia. I'm not sure we want them controlling that much of the world's oil.

This shit all sounds really simple, but I'm willing to bet it's not, and that's why multiple administrations with pretty different views on most topics have struggled to fine a way to exit. It will be a pleasant surprise if the pack of morons we have in the White House now are the ones who actually figure it out.

maybe the bureaucratic do-nothings we've been electing could also be described as "packs of morons". just a thought

[Caf]

Was protection of Israel one of the reasons we have been involved in the Middle East? That and Oil, of course.

Israel is one of them, but definitely not the primary reason. There's little link to them in the Gulf War or the Iraq War as well as Afghanistan.

It's impossible to reduce the complication of the region, but I would say it's mostly explained as an extension of the Cold War and of course we're motivated by oil. We've gained a lot of protection with new oil sources but based on reserves its either be involved in Venezuela or the Middle East.

[GoMuskies]

We've got plenty of oil now. That should be pretty frightening to the Saudis.

[Xville]

We've got plenty of oil now. That should be pretty frightening to the Saudis.

Yeah could be wrong, but arent we the largest oil producer in the world now? Oil should no longer be an excuse for dealing with this stupid region.

[GoMuskies]

We are. We export more than we import, too, although we do still need to continue to import some oil. There's an overall mismatch between the type of crude produced here and the types that U.S. refineries can run.

[Caf]

Yeah could be wrong, but arent we the largest oil producer in the world now? Oil should no longer be an excuse for dealing with this stupid region.

That's true, but unless we exited the global market for it, our additional output can only help lower the price. So while we definitely have more sway over the price, true "energy independence" does not really exist as long as we're using oil.

[boozehound]

maybe the bureaucratic do-nothings we've been electing could also be described as "packs of morons". just a thought

Oh yeah, lots of them were/are definitely morons too. I'm not sure they are on the level of the current morons we have in the White House. I draw a distinction between dysfunctional bureaucracy and full-on reckless stupidity though. The current administration appears to have limited knowledge of the scope of their roles while also having a risk tolerance that (more than) borders on complete recklessness. It might work out, but it also might really really not work out.

Here's an example: Let's say that I work as a Doctor for the VA. I'm not a good Doctor, but I'm not the worst Doctor, and I know how to be a Doctor. I make every decision based on how it impacts the likelihood of me keeping my job. The result is that I don't really do anything out of the ordinary to help anyone (risky), but I also don't do anything wildly negligent to hurt anyone. I'm not advancing my field, but I'm not killing people. Now let's replace him with somebody who is smart, but also has a very high risk tolerance coupled with a massive ego and little knowledge of Medicine (although he has read some books). That is what we have now, IMHO.

[GoMuskies]

How the fuck is Tom Steyer one of the six Democrat candidates to qualify for the last debate before Iowa?!? I mean, I know Trump is President, so any dumb ass thing seems possible, but Tom fucking Steyer?!? Really?

[JTG]

Oh yeah, lots of them were/are definitely morons too. I'm not sure they are on the level of the current morons we have in the White House. I draw a distinction between dysfunctional bureaucracy and full-on reckless stupidity though. The current administration appears to have limited knowledge of the scope of their roles while also having a risk tolerance that (more than) borders on complete recklessness. It might work out, but it also might really really not work out.

Here's an example: Let's say that I work as a Doctor for the VA. I'm not a good Doctor, but I'm not the worst Doctor, and I know how to be a Doctor. I make every decision based on how it impacts the likelihood of me keeping my job. The result is that I don't really do anything out of the ordinary to help anyone (risky), but I also don't do anything wildly negligent to hurt anyone. I'm not advancing my field, but I'm not killing people. Now let's replace him with somebody who is smart, but also has a very high risk tolerance coupled with a massive ego and little knowledge of Medicine (although he has read some books). That is what we have now, IMHO.

The White House may have some morons, but we are not getting pushed around and being forced to pay off a bunch of third world terrorists (billions of $ to Iran) like we were with Barry the Muslim. Also we're nearly energy independent, and lastly my 401K has increased by $68k since Trump took office.

[boozehound]

The White House may have some morons, but we are not getting pushed around and being forced to pay off a bunch of third world terrorists (billions of $ to Iran) like we were with Barry the Muslim. Also we're nearly energy independent, and lastly my 401K has increased by $68k since Trump took office.

This is how I know not to take anything you say seriously. That is some racist shit right there.

[STL_XUfan]

How the fuck is Tom Steyer one of the six Democrat candidates to qualify for the last debate before Iowa?!? I mean, I know Trump is President, so any dumb ass thing seems possible, but Tom fucking Steyer?!? Really?

I can think of about 1.6 billion reasons.

[GoMuskies]

I can think of about 1.6 billion reasons.

Sure, but Bloomberg can't make the debate, and he's at least been a successful politician!

[bobbiemcgee]

The White House may have some morons, but we are not getting pushed around and being forced to pay off a bunch of third world terrorists (billions of $ to Iran) like we were with Barry the Muslim.

Once Again, the billions were THEIR MONEY. We just had a hold on it. It was never USA money. It was never going anywhere except back to iRAN.

[noteggs]

Oh yeah, lots of them were/are definitely morons too. I'm not sure they are on the level of the current morons we have in the White House. I draw a distinction between dysfunctional bureaucracy and full-on reckless stupidity though. The current administration appears to have limited knowledge of the scope of their roles while also having a risk tolerance that (more than) borders on complete recklessness. It might work out, but it also might really really not work out.

Here's an example: Let's say that I work as a Doctor for the VA. I'm not a good Doctor, but I'm not the worst Doctor, and I know how to be a Doctor. I make every decision based on how it impacts the likelihood of me keeping my job. The result is that I don't really do anything out of the ordinary to help anyone (risky), but I also don't do anything wildly negligent to hurt anyone. I'm not advancing my field, but I'm not killing people. Now let's replace him with somebody who is smart, but also has a very high risk tolerance coupled with a massive ego and little knowledge of Medicine (although he has read some books). That is what we have now, IMHO.

I get your stance on Trump or someone with his credentials. Not to say I agree, but wanted to focus on the analogy which I thought was creative and something I could relate to.

When you say: “The result is that I don't really do anything out of the ordinary to help anyone (risky)”

It sounds like the job performance is not good or bad, but somewhat ok because it’s not out the ordinary. Do I have this correct? Not sure I’ve seen similar results. See GAO attached. https://www.gao.gov/mobile/key_issues/managing_risks_improving_va_health_care/issue_summary

I know your main point is not about the VA, but had to ask and/or show a small example of government inefficiency. My main point is you call this presidency “full on reckless stupidity,” but I see this currently and have for years in the the House and Senate especially when it comes to spending.

However my favorite part, “I know how to be a Doctor. I make every decision based on how it impacts the likelihood of me keeping my job.” This is spot on when it comes to politicians.

[xudash]

Once Again, the billions were THEIR MONEY. We just had a hold on it. It was never USA money. It was never going anywhere except back to iRAN.

B/S. They’re terrorists. They have no rights. Look what they’re doing with that money. Obama is and was a f’ing idiot.

Now that the money is gone, why don’t you fly over there and reason with them to be good global citizens. Just keep an eye out for plugged-in drills.

[noteggs]

Once Again, the billions were THEIR MONEY. We just had a hold on it. It was never USA money. It was never going anywhere except back to iRAN.

Or was it completely just their money. Not saying yes or no, but wish we had a little more digging from the press on the initial and interest part of the payment.

Attached is a nice article on this subject. Yes I know it’s a conservative publication, but have a few “never Trumpers” on staff. Seems like most fact checkers will find someone who will agree with their point and never give me the whole story. Just like to dig into both sides of the story. Sometimes it helps and others not so much.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/yes-obama-helped-fund-the-iranian-regime/

[scoscox]

Oh yeah, lots of them were/are definitely morons too. I'm not sure they are on the level of the current morons we have in the White House. I draw a distinction between dysfunctional bureaucracy and full-on reckless stupidity though. The current administration appears to have limited knowledge of the scope of their roles while also having a risk tolerance that (more than) borders on complete recklessness. It might work out, but it also might really really not work out.

Here's an example: Let's say that I work as a Doctor for the VA. I'm not a good Doctor, but I'm not the worst Doctor, and I know how to be a Doctor. I make every decision based on how it impacts the likelihood of me keeping my job. The result is that I don't really do anything out of the ordinary to help anyone (risky), but I also don't do anything wildly negligent to hurt anyone. I'm not advancing my field, but I'm not killing people. Now let's replace him with somebody who is smart, but also has a very high risk tolerance coupled with a massive ego and little knowledge of Medicine (although he has read some books). That is what we have now, IMHO.

Those doctors that "did nothing" started how many wars in the middle east? almost every president in the last 50 years has gotten into or started a conflict somewhere in the middle east. trump killed 1 guy, but all of a sudden he's worse than bush or obama? please. trump is practically gandhi by comparison

[X-band '01]

How the fuck is Tom Steyer one of the six Democrat candidates to qualify for the last debate before Iowa?!? I mean, I know Trump is President, so any dumb ass thing seems possible, but Tom fucking Steyer?!? Really?

Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, and Steyer - who am I missing if there's six?

[chico]

Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, and Steyer - who am I missing if there's six?

Klobuchar

[Muskie in dayton]

Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, and Steyer - who am I missing if there's six?
The only one who is not a buffoon, a kid, or a socialist.

[scoscox]

The only one who is not a buffoon, a kid, or a socialist.

Klobuchar isn’t a buffoon? Lol

[Xavgrad08]

Iran says it shot down Ukraine plane, but it was not intentional. Sad situation. https://amp.businessinsider.com/iran-admits-shot-down-ukrainian-airlines-flight-blaming-human-error-2020-1

[bobbiemcgee]

B/S. They’re terrorists. They have no rights. Look what they’re doing with that money. Obama is and was a f’ing idiot.

Now that the money is gone, why don’t you fly over there and reason with them to be good global citizens. Just keep an eye out for plugged-in drills.

Russia, China and Venezuela all kill innocent people and act like terrorists. Let's slap a hold on their money. I don't think Moscow Mitch would allow it. Think about it next time you fill up @ Citgo.

Trump tweeted that Obama was trying to start a war with Iran. Duh.

[JTG]

Russia, China and Venezuela all kill innocent people and act like terrorists. Let's slap a hold on their money. I don't think Moscow Mitch would allow it. Think about it next time you fill up @ Citgo.

Venezuela is bankrupt. They have no money to hold. Russia and China fall into the category of "they are so big, we have to try to get along". BTW, who the hell buys gas at Citgo ?

[GoMuskies]

If you avoid buying gas at Citgo, you're hurting Americans and not Venezuelans. Citgo (the entity owned by PDVSA) does not own those gas stations. Just FYI.

[xudash]

Russia, China and Venezuela all kill innocent people and act like terrorists. Let's slap a hold on their money. I don't think Moscow Mitch would allow it. Think about it next time you fill up @ Citgo.

Trump tweeted that Obama was trying to start a war with Iran. Duh.

No they don’t. They are all nations states that have terrible human rights policies, or a lack of them.

Iran exports and directly promotes terrorism. Their theology does not tolerate other theologies.

China is a real problem overall. Russia is a dangerous headache. Venezuela? Good lord.

[Muskie in dayton]

Klobuchar isn’t a buffoon? Lol

Please explain once you’re done lol’ing.

[GoMuskies]

I really dislike the prospect of either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren becoming President, so their little brawl amuses me. I'm guessing Biden hopes to stay out of it as much as possible tonight.

[GoMuskies]

Please explain once you’re done lol’ing.

Klobuchar took Mitt's binder full of women...and threw it at a woman.

[SemajParlor]

I really dislike the prospect of either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren becoming President, so their little brawl amuses me. I'm guessing Biden hopes to stay out of it as much as possible tonight.

Seeing these 3 written out as the alternatives to Trump sucks.

[GoMuskies]

Seeing these 3 written out as the alternatives to Trump sucks.

Don't worry, there's always Tom Steyer.....

[boozehound]

I get your stance on Trump or someone with his credentials. Not to say I agree, but wanted to focus on the analogy which I thought was creative and something I could relate to.

When you say: “The result is that I don't really do anything out of the ordinary to help anyone (risky)”

It sounds like the job performance is not good or bad, but somewhat ok because it’s not out the ordinary. Do I have this correct? Not sure I’ve seen similar results. See GAO attached. https://www.gao.gov/mobile/key_issues/managing_risks_improving_va_health_care/issue_summary

I know your main point is not about the VA, but had to ask and/or show a small example of government inefficiency. My main point is you call this presidency “full on reckless stupidity,” but I see this currently and have for years in the the House and Senate especially when it comes to spending.

However my favorite part, “I know how to be a Doctor. I make every decision based on how it impacts the likelihood of me keeping my job.” This is spot on when it comes to politicians.

So replace VA with generic hospital of some kind. The point was not to talk about how the VA is run (poorly). The point is: if you end up in an emergency room do you want to be treated by a mediocre Doctor, or a great businessman? Politicians pretty much all suck. I think we can agree upon that. We probably differ in the assumption that Donald F'ing Trump is somehow a better alternative. Just because one thing is bad, doesn't mean that everything else is automatically better.


Those doctors that "did nothing" started how many wars in the middle east? almost every president in the last 50 years has gotten into or started a conflict somewhere in the middle east. trump killed 1 guy, but all of a sudden he's worse than bush or obama? please. trump is practically gandhi by comparison

This seems like a non-point. It's actually difficult to argue against because it doesn't appear that you really have an argument. My opinion that Trump is wildly unfit for office was formed long before he killed some Iranian general. Every time the guy tweets he proves my point. The flaws of past leaders have little to do with it.

[scoscox]

This seems like a non-point. It's actually difficult to argue against because it doesn't appear that you really have an argument. My opinion that Trump is wildly unfit for office was formed long before he killed some Iranian general. Every time the guy tweets he proves my point. The flaws of past leaders have little to do with it.

My point was a response to your absurd doctor analogy. thought it was pretty clear. you said the do nothing doctors don't take any risks, but don't kill anyone, which is incredibly obtuse considering how many people the bushes, obamas, etc. killed in the middle east. bush started a war, but he did it with decorum! he didn't have crazy tweets! that seems to be your stance and it's shockingly dumb.

and please spare me the "he's unhinged because of how he tweets!" message board psychology. complain about his policy or something. his twitter is so irrelevant. i could atleast respect a complaint about his health care policies or something/anything of substance.

[SemajParlor]

and please spare me the "he's unhinged because of how he tweets!" message board psychology. complain about his policy or something. his twitter is so irrelevant. i could atleast respect a complaint about his health care policies or something/anything of substance.

I too find it irrelevant when he threatens war and war crimes to the world, belittles and insults our allies, and threatens to put his political opponents in jail.

[scoscox]

I too find it irrelevant when he threatens war and war crimes to the world, belittles and insults our allies, and threatens to put his political opponents in jail.

and he's done exactly 0 of those things. meanwhile we actually have former presidents who did all of them, but didn't tweet.

[noteggs]

So replace VA with generic hospital of some kind. The point was not to talk about how the VA is run (poorly). The point is: if you end up in an emergency room do you want to be treated by a mediocre Doctor, or a great businessman? Politicians pretty much all suck. I think we can agree upon that. We probably differ in the assumption that Donald F'ing Trump is somehow a better alternative. Just because one thing is bad, doesn't mean that everything else is automatically better.

Yes. This is why I said, “I know your main point is not about the VA.”

At the beginning of my post (poorly worded on my part), I tried to leave qualifications for politics out of the discussion because you and I have not and probably will never agree on them. Just trying to spur on a different conversation in which I failed

Don’t think anyone can dispute your statement, “Just because one thing is bad, doesn't mean that everything else is automatically better.” However if something is bad, I normally prefer to try something different the next time (just like people can do with any upcoming election). Sometimes it works and sometimes it bites you in the ass. Beats living with constant bad.

[JTG]

Politics aside, Is anyone on this site with a 401k, or IRA worse off than they were before Trump was elected ?

[Lloyd Braun]

My point was a response to your absurd doctor analogy. thought it was pretty clear. you said the do nothing doctors don't take any risks, but don't kill anyone, which is incredibly obtuse considering how many people the bushes, obamas, etc. killed in the middle east. bush started a war, but he did it with decorum! he didn't have crazy tweets! that seems to be your stance and it's shockingly dumb.

and please spare me the "he's unhinged because of how he tweets!" message board psychology. complain about his policy or something. his twitter is so irrelevant. i could atleast respect a complaint about his health care policies or something/anything of substance.

There are countless of tweets to show how his Twitter is far from irrelevant. Trump would be the first to tell you how relevant it is. For example, here (https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1213919480574812160?s=21)

He uses it as a mode of communication for pretty much anything. He fired Tillerson via twitter. He threatens other countries via Twitter. The list goes on.... frankly it’s just not “Presidential” nor professional. As someone who hires employees one of the first thing we do is check social media for anything. He is just unhinged at times and not a calming stable leader.

[scoscox]

frankly it’s just not “Presidential” nor professional. As someone who hires employees one of the first thing we do is check social media for anything. He is just unhinged at times and not a calming stable leader.

my point is... who cares? all of our previous presidents did way worse shit, but had a "calming manner". not sure why people seem to care about one more than the other. priorities seem really out of whack

[SemajParlor]

my point is... who cares?


If your point is that none of what he communicates via twitter has any significant impact because he has not or has not yet acted on everything he has ever written, then I will have to respectfully disagree on our understanding of the President's impact on the world.

[scoscox]

If your point is that none of what he communicates via twitter has any significant impact because he has not or has not yet acted on everything he has ever written, then I will have to respectfully disagree on our understanding of the President's impact on the world.

That’s not my point at all. The country has larger problems than whether or not trump occasionally engages in foreign policy on Twitter, but you’d never be able to tell by the way a lot of people act. That’s my point

[SemajParlor]

That’s not my point at all. The country has larger problems than whether or not trump occasionally engages in foreign policy on Twitter, but you’d never be able to tell by the way a lot of people act. That’s my point

I guess it's just semantics then. You wrote that his twitter is irrelevant and I responded with my opinion to that point.

[Caf]

That’s not my point at all. The country has larger problems than whether or not trump occasionally engages in foreign policy on Twitter, but you’d never be able to tell by the way a lot of people act. That’s my point

You are holding "a lot of people" to a higher standard than the President. You could make the same exact point but directed at Trump. You've chosen everyone else who has significantly less power.

[Strange Brew]

Just so long as you also credit Trump when the market corrects.

Bump!

Haha!

[Caf]

Bump!

Haha!

There has been a market correction since that post. As predicted by X-man you were not blaming it on Trump at the time.

[Strange Brew]

There has been a market correction since that post. As predicted by X-man you were not blaming it on Trump at the time.

Oh? Do tell.

[xudash]

The Democrats are burning themselves to the ground.

That is juxtaposed against the Dow at +29,000 and the Phase One signed. And that is with CNN, et al losing their collective minds.

You should be ashamed if you believe and support this farce.

[Caf]

Oh? Do tell.

The S&P dropped ~15% between its December 2018 high and low. That's a classic correction.

[Strange Brew]

The S&P dropped ~15% between its December 2018 high and low. That's a classic correction.

Hmmm, something happened with interest rates during that time....

[paulxu]

The Democrats are burning themselves to the ground.

That is juxtaposed against the Dow at +29,000 and the Phase One signed. And that is with CNN, et al losing their collective minds.

You should be ashamed if you believe and support this farce.

I support the "farce" because I believe in the separation of powers, and that a president can't refuse to honor lawful subpoenas from a branch charged with oversight.

On a personal note, as a veteran, I am ashamed of the treatment this president gives to our armed forces (despite his constantly saying he loves the military). This is frankly embarrassing:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/youre-a-bunch-of-dopes-and-babies-inside-trumps-stunning-tirade-against-generals/2020/01/16/d6dbb8a6-387e-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

[X-man]

Hmmm, something happened with interest rates during that time....

Hmmmm, something also happened to interest rates during the stock run-up as well. Your emphasis on the effects of interest rates on the markets suggests that you actually understand the fact that Presidents have very little impact on markets. Thanks for making my point.

[Strange Brew]

Hmmmm, something also happened to interest rates during the stock run-up as well. Your emphasis on the effects of interest rates on the markets suggests that you actually understand the fact that Presidents have very little impact on markets. Thanks for making my point.

Right, rates were effectively 0 during Obama’s term.

Trump’s tax and trade policies pushed the economy to such a positive level that the Fed felt comfortable enough to raise rates which as im sure you know normally causes traders to sell.

So, I’ll make it simple doc.

Trump policies good. Economy grows fast. Fed raised rates. Stock run slows temporarily.

So, not a correction due to policy but a reaction to a booming economy due to great policy.

Thanks for playing..

[Mrs. Garrett]

The Democrats are burning themselves to the ground.

That is juxtaposed against the Dow at +29,000 and the Phase One signed. And that is with CNN, et al losing their collective minds.

You should be ashamed if you believe and support this farce.

I wonder if this would be a farce if this was Obama?

[GoMuskies]

I wonder if this would be a farce if this was Obama?

It would be. But I agree with the point you're making re: who would and would not consider it a farce.

[X-man]

Right, rates were effectively 0 during Obama’s term.

Trump’s tax and trade policies pushed the economy to such a positive level that the Fed felt comfortable enough to raise rates which as im sure you know normally causes traders to sell.

So, I’ll make it simple doc.

Trump policies good. Economy grows fast. Fed raised rates. Stock run slows temporarily.

So, not a correction due to policy but a reaction to a booming economy due to great policy.

Thanks for playing..

Uh, so the Fed lowering rates last year, along with its active participation in the REPO markets, had nothing to do with the market rebound?? Don't be such a hypocrite.

[SemajParlor]

You should be ashamed if you believe and support this farce.

And confirming, this is not about Trump?

[Mrs. Garrett]

It would be. But I agree with the point you're making re: who would and would not consider it a farce.

I'm talking about to the Trump humpers. You know the same people who were outraged because Obama wore a tan suit.

As someone who has voted 50/50 for Democrats and Republicans since becoming eligible to vote, I am amazed that any educated person would vote for him. Much less support the current state of affairs.

[X-man]

Right, rates were effectively 0 during Obama’s term.

Trump’s tax and trade policies pushed the economy to such a positive level that the Fed felt comfortable enough to raise rates which as im sure you know normally causes traders to sell.

So, I’ll make it simple doc.

Trump policies good. Economy grows fast. Fed raised rates. Stock run slows temporarily.

So, not a correction due to policy but a reaction to a booming economy due to great policy.

Thanks for playing..

And since you apparently believe that expansionary Fed policy has no impact on stocks, you must be a huge fan of Obama. Since Trump was inaugurated, stocks have gained about 34%. During Obama's first term during the same time period, stocks rose 68%. They likely would have increased even faster had Republicans embraced deficit spending under Obama the way they have under Trump.

[Strange Brew]

And since you apparently believe that expansionary Fed policy has no impact on stocks, you must be a huge fan of Obama. Since Trump was inaugurated, stocks have gained about 34%. During Obama's first term during the same time period, stocks rose 68%. They likely would have increased even faster had Republicans embraced deficit spending under Obama the way they have under Trump.

Your first sentence is the opposite of what I wrote. Get better.

Republicans did not control Congress during Obama’s first term.

[xudash]

I wonder if this would be a farce if this was Obama?

With all facts the same - - without question.

[Mrs. Garrett]

With all facts the same - - without question.

I don't believe you.

I have so much respect for the Republicans who sided with America when it came to Nixon as opposed to these weaklings who choose party over country in 2020.

I would love to know what Trump has on Lindsey Graham. The guy went from #1 critic to sucking his balls (think I just answered my own question) in no time.

[Bad Billy Pratt]

I'm talking about to the Trump humpers. You know the same people who were outraged because Obama wore a tan suit.

As someone who has voted 50/50 for Democrats and Republicans since becoming eligible to vote, I am amazed that any educated person would vote for him. Much less support the current state of affairs.

First post and truly can't believe that I am wading into this cesspool - frankly to quote the great Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear". And what I see is a focus on America first - taking care of our own. I see the lowest unemployment rate in over 50 years. I see real wages for the middle class and lower classes rising faster than the income for the top tiers. I see also minority unemployment at the lowest level ever for African Americans.

Would I prefer he be more respectful and stop tweeting - he** yeah. Would I prefer he be more dignified in public and when dealing with foreign leaders - again a big he** yeah.

At the end of the day it is a balancing act - you win some, you lose some. People have a choice and a chance in today's economy; there is job mobility that hasn't been available for years. I'll take that.

Didn't vote for him in 2016 - probably voting for him in 2020 and yes, I do consider myself to be somewhat educated...

Now return to your mud-slinging (or poo slinging if that's your style).

Bad Billy Pratt signing off....

[Xville]

I'm talking about to the Trump humpers. You know the same people who were outraged because Obama wore a tan suit.

As someone who has voted 50/50 for Democrats and Republicans since becoming eligible to vote, I am amazed that any educated person would vote for him. Much less support the current state of affairs.

I dont love trump as a human being by any means but have you seen the economy lately, or how do your retirement accounts look currently? Now should all of that be attributed to Trump? Of course not, but I'll be voting for him, because I'm terrified what would happen to the economy if pocahontas or bernie got elected.

What has trump really done to you that's so awful? Is he a pig? Absolutely but his economic policies for the most part are working for the american people.

[Smails]

As someone who has voted 50/50 for Democrats and Republicans since becoming eligible to vote, I am amazed that any educated person would vote for him. Much less support the current state of affairs.

The first part of your sentence is complete horseshit... and as you said earlier "I don't believe you". If you had a moderate bone in your body you would at least be able to acknowledge the positive things happening in this country on some fronts due to his public policy.

The second part of your sentence reflects the narrative that got him elected in the first place and has him trending the same way in 2020.

[GenerationX]

First post and truly can't believe that I am wading into this cesspool - frankly to quote the great Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear". And what I see is a focus on America first - taking care of our own. I see the lowest unemployment rate in over 50 years. I see real wages for the middle class and lower classes rising faster than the income for the top tiers. I see also minority unemployment at the lowest level ever for African Americans.

Would I prefer he be more respectful and stop tweeting - he** yeah. Would I prefer he be more dignified in public and when dealing with foreign leaders - again a big he** yeah.

At the end of the day it is a balancing act - you win some, you lose some. People have a choice and a chance in today's economy; there is job mobility that hasn't been available for years. I'll take that.

Didn't vote for him in 2016 - probably voting for him in 2020 and yes, I do consider myself to be somewhat educated...

Now return to your mud-slinging (or poo slinging if that's your style).

Bad Billy Pratt signing off....


Do you have links to support the bold/underlined statement? My understanding is the opposite. (Wages for lower and middle income folks has remained stagnant while the vast majority of income growth goes to the rich.) People tout the economy under trump, but I’m not convinced it’s any better for the vast majority of people.

[Bad Billy Pratt]

Do you have links to support the bold/underlined statement? My understanding is the opposite. (Wages for lower and middle income folks has remained stagnant while the vast majority of income growth goes to the rich.) People tout the economy under trump, but I’m not convinced it’s any better for the vast majority of people.

Posted without comment - https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-economys-inequality-dividend-11578699397?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=2

[xudash]

First post and truly can't believe that I am wading into this cesspool - frankly to quote the great Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear". And what I see is a focus on America first - taking care of our own. I see the lowest unemployment rate in over 50 years. I see real wages for the middle class and lower classes rising faster than the income for the top tiers. I see also minority unemployment at the lowest level ever for African Americans.

Would I prefer he be more respectful and stop tweeting - he** yeah. Would I prefer he be more dignified in public and when dealing with foreign leaders - again a big he** yeah.

At the end of the day it is a balancing act - you win some, you lose some. People have a choice and a chance in today's economy; there is job mobility that hasn't been available for years. I'll take that.

Didn't vote for him in 2016 - probably voting for him in 2020 and yes, I do consider myself to be somewhat educated...

Now return to your mud-slinging (or poo slinging if that's your style).

Bad Billy Pratt signing off....

Pretty strong and level-headed way to wade into the fracus here.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's a form versus substance thing, in a sense.

His form can be bothersome and obnoxious. I get that part of it. He should have a "filter" that keeps him from going off in certain cases. He would be perceived to be more presidential if he dialed it back in this area. Now, he gets a certain amount of "pass" in this area because of how abjectly brain-dead the far left media have become. He must constantly fight against them. Obama was an empty suit guided by a teleprompter. Superior form. Community organizer results.

As for the substance side, well, my God. His achievements, which are focused on benefitting AMERICANS are substantial. Everything you noted above. And they can be juxtaposed against the Far Left's desire to pursue socialism and open borders and other nonsensical objectives. Socialism, in particular, has never worked anywhere else at anytime and sure as hell will not work in a diverse country of 340 million.

It may turn out to be truly more strategic than what has developed so far. This guy is a hardcore businessman who is in the process of arresting the 21st Century from the Chinese, while otherwise making our allies rightfully fund more of their defense budgets. With respect to the former, manufacturing and supply chain logistics may come back to the U.S. in waves and trade balances will perhaps level out more evenly. China has never been confronted with a U.S. President like this guy.

There was a meme the other day that had a picture on the left of Pelosi (a truly stupid and loathsome human being) signing the impeachment articles with one of her cute pens and a picture on the right of Trump signing the Phase One deal with China next to it. Kinda sums up where we stand.

The articles of impeachment are worthless. Let's get through that circus so that we can look into the affairs of Biden and his son, the Clintons and Obama.

[X-man]

Your first sentence is the opposite of what I wrote. Get better.

Republicans did not control Congress during Obama’s first term.

1. Explain where you said the runup in stocks over the past year was because of Fed policy, and not Trump.

2. Are you really saying that the Democrats, and not the Republicans, were the reason Obama failed to get the expansionary fiscal policy he was trying to get passed in order to help the economy recover? Were Democrats responsible for the "fiscal cliff"? Were Democrats deficit hawks (aka starve the beast), and Republicans were not? Surely your political memory is better than that.

[xudash]

1. Explain where you said the runup in stocks over the past year was because of Fed policy, and not Trump.

2. Are you really saying that the Democrats, and not the Republicans, were the reason Obama failed to get the expansionary fiscal policy he was trying to get passed in order to help the economy recover? Were Democrats responsible for the "fiscal cliff"? Were Democrats deficit hawks (aka starve the beast), and Republicans were not? Surely your political memory is better than that.

Yes they were. Clinton demanded that the GSE's - Fannie and Freddie - open up their securitization to sub A-Paper to cover his community redlining lending fiasco. Otherwise, don't kid yourself: Wall Street is full of Democrats, too.

[X-man]

Yes they were. Clinton demanded that the GSE's - Fannie and Freddie - open up their securitization to sub A-Paper to cover his community redlining lending fiasco. Otherwise, don't kid yourself: Wall Street is full of Democrats, too.

The fiscal cliff occurred under Obama, and referred to mandated rollback of government spending across the board if a joint House-Senate committee failed to solve a budgetary impasse. Clinton had nothing to do with it.

[Masterofreality]

We should have a poll as to when the Dow hits 30,000.

Before or after Valentines Day?

[Masterofreality]

The fiscal cliff occurred under Obama, and referred to mandated rollback of government spending across the board if a joint House-Senate committee failed to solve a budgetary impasse. Clinton had nothing to do with it.

But Democrat policies did. That's the point.
Way to self own.

[xudash]

The fiscal cliff occurred under Obama, and referred to mandated rollback of government spending across the board if a joint House-Senate committee failed to solve a budgetary impasse. Clinton had nothing to do with it.

Oh, you mean Harry Reid's fiscal cliff. More liberal ineptitude.

[Caf]

Hmmm, something happened with interest rates during that time....

Trader here: no shit. That's why I didn't blame the correction on Trump. If someone thinks Trump did not help the market in anyway they're an idiot. If someone thinks Trump is single-handedly responsible for the continuation of the longest bull market in US history, they're an idiot. The point still stands, if you're going to give him credit for everything that boosts the market (buybacks, raised corporate earnings, low rates, oh I don't know hard working Americans) then you should be ready to blame him for anything that hurts it.

There's a million factors, tangible and intangible that go into the stock market. Sometimes the market rips and plummets for no reason at all. Try to simplify or politicize it at your own demise. You're clearly smart of enough to know this, but somehow petulant enough to insist everyone join you on your knees in praise of this man. He has given consumer confidence to populations which were lacking it. He's helped corporations with tax reform and regulation cutback. There are other sides and risks to every move he makes. Crediting him with anything more, especially in regards to valuation, is purely political bull.

[noteggs]

Trader here: no shit. That's why I didn't blame the correction on Trump. If someone thinks Trump did not help the market in anyway they're an idiot. If someone thinks Trump is single-handedly responsible for the continuation of the longest bull market in US history, they're an idiot. The point still stands, if you're going to give him credit for everything that boosts the market (buybacks, raised corporate earnings, low rates, oh I don't know hard working Americans) then you should be ready to blame him for anything that hurts it.

There's a million factors, tangible and intangible that go into the stock market. Sometimes the market rips and plummets for no reason at all. Try to simplify or politicize it at your own demise. You're clearly smart of enough to know this, but somehow petulant enough to insist everyone join you on your knees in praise of this man. He has given consumer confidence to populations which were lacking it. He's helped corporations with tax reform and regulation cutback. There are other sides and risks to every move he makes. Crediting him with anything more, especially in regards to valuation, is purely political bull.

Yup. Presidents should get credit/blame , but get too much credit/blame in good times and bad. The economy happens sometimes.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I dont love trump as a human being by any means but have you seen the economy lately, or how do your retirement accounts look currently? Now should all of that be attributed to Trump? Of course not, but I'll be voting for him, because I'm terrified what would happen to the economy if pocahontas or bernie got elected.

What has trump really done to you that's so awful? Is he a pig? Absolutely but his economic policies for the most part are working for the american people.

I think he reflects poorly on us as a nation. Especially given the amount of international travel I do for work and comments from my international colleagues. The way he treats women and supports white nationalism is a problem

Dole
Bush
Bush
Obama
Obama
Clinton

[Mrs. Garrett]

The first part of your sentence is complete horseshit... and as you said earlier "I don't believe you". If you had a moderate bone in your body you would at least be able to acknowledge the positive things happening in this country on some fronts due to his public policy.

The second part of your sentence reflects the narrative that got him elected in the first place and has him trending the same way in 2020.

Dole
Bush
Bush
Obama
Obama
Clinton (begrudgingly) would have voted Republican for any other candidate

[Xville]

I think he reflects poorly on us as a nation. Especially given the amount of international travel I do for work and comments from my international colleagues. The way he treats women and supports white nationalism is a problem

Dole
Bush
Bush
Obama
Obama
Clinton

Countries have hated the us since its inception, I dont give a flying f what most countries think of us, in fact if our allies dont like us, in many ways that's better because it means that the allies who have been riding our coattails for far too long in multiple ways have finally had to pay their fair share and they hate that.

And I get it, we need allies and though we may "look bad" to them, they will always be there because they need us.

[GenerationX]

Do you have links to support the bold/underlined statement? My understanding is the opposite. (Wages for lower and middle income folks has remained stagnant while the vast majority of income growth goes to the rich.) People tout the economy under trump, but I’m not convinced it’s any better for the vast majority of people.


Posted without comment - https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-economys-inequality-dividend-11578699397?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=2

I am unable to read the WSJ article, but the first link seems to mostly align with my understanding. The following section seems to sum it up:

“ But middle-class incomes have not grown at the rate of upper-tier incomes. From 1970 to 2018, the median middle-class income increased from $58,100 to $86,600, a gain of 49%.10 This was considerably less than the 64% increase for upper-income households, whose median income increased from $126,100 in 1970 to $207,400 in 2018. Households in the lower-income tier experienced a gain of 43%, from $20,000 in 1970 to $28,700 in 2018. (Incomes are expressed in 2018 dollars.)”

More tepid growth in the income of middle-class households and the reduction in the share of households in the middle-income tier led to a steep fall in the share of U.S. aggregate income held by the middle class. From 1970 to 2018, the share of aggregate income going to middle-class households fell from 62% to 43%. Over the same period, the share held by upper-income households increased from 29% to 48%. The share flowing to lower-income households inched down from 10% in 1970 to 9% in 2018.

These trends in income reflect the growth in economic inequality overall in the U.S. in the decades since 1980.

Income growth has been most rapid for the top 5% of families

Even among higher-income families, the growth in income has favored those at the top. Since 1980, incomes have increased faster for the most affluent families – those in the top 5% – than for families in the income strata below them. This disparity in outcomes is less pronounced in the wake of the Great Recession but shows no signs of reversing.

From 1981 to 1990, the change in mean family income ranged from a loss of 0.1% annually for families in the lowest quintile (the bottom 20% of earners) to a gain of 2.1% annually for families in the highest quintile (the top 20%). The top 5% of families, who are part of the highest quintile, fared even better – their income increased at the rate of 3.2% annually from 1981 to 1990. Thus, the 1980s marked the beginning of a long and steady rise in income inequality.

Since 1981, the incomes of the top 5% of earners have increased faster than the incomes of other families
A similar pattern prevailed in the 1990s, with even sharper growth in income at the top. From 1991 to 2000, the mean income of the top 5% of families grew at an annual average rate of 4.1%, compared with 2.7% for families in the highest quintile overall, and about 1% or barely more for other families.

The period from 2001 to 2010 is unique in the post-WWII era. Families in all strata experienced a loss in income in this decade, with those in the poorer strata experiencing more pronounced losses. The pattern in income growth from 2011 to 2018 is more balanced than the previous three decades, with gains more broadly shared across poorer and better-off families. Nonetheless, income growth remains tilted to the top, with families in the top 5% experiencing greater gains than other families since 2011.“

And the unemployment levels are low, but if people still struggle to make ends meet, it’s not necessarily an indicator of a good economy for everyone.

[SemajParlor]

The way he treats women and supports white nationalism is a problem

It's not a good time in this country for many groups of people.

[bleedXblue]

I do find it interesting that there seems to be a belief (by some) that every single person in this country should be doing better, should be taken care of and should be enjoying the benefits of the current strong economy. It's not possible and it's never has been a goal of any administration. Liberal or conservative. If a dem was in the white house now, they would win in a land slide this November. Historically, a US president running for reelection has never lost when the economic conditions have been strong.

Personally, I believe if you want more for yourself, go out and earn it. This country has plenty of opportunities for ALL.

You can find an issue and create a narrative if that's your goal. I don't get it and never will.

[bjf123]

The way he treats women and supports white nationalism is a problem


So his nationalism is only for whites? Care to expand upon that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

Uh, so the Fed lowering rates last year, along with its active participation in the REPO markets, had nothing to do with the market rebound?? Don't be such a hypocrite.

There has been no long term slow down since the election. The market has been growing overall since. Despite rates going up and leftists who don’t understand checkers screaming about trade wars and the “cost” of tax cuts (the most idiotic of arguments).

[X-man]

There has been no long term slow down since the election. The market has been growing overall since. Despite rates going up and leftists who don’t understand checkers screaming about trade wars and the “cost” of tax cuts (the most idiotic of arguments).

Huh, just like under Obama except the rate of increase was higher under him.

[Strange Brew]

Huh, just like under Obama except the rate of increase was higher under him.

Rate of increase is a dubious measurement and you know it. Thanks for playing.

[X-man]

Rate of increase is a dubious measurement and you know it. Thanks for playing.

As usual...avoid the basic point. Also, what the hell are you talking about?

[Smails]

It's not a good time in this country for many groups of people.

Who would that be, and on what grounds?

[Strange Brew]

rate of increase was higher under him.

Just stop. This is sad.

[xudash]

As usual...avoid the basic point. Also, what the hell are you talking about?

Did you note somewhere along the way that you are a professor at Xavier?

[xudash]

Who would that be, and on what grounds?

Seriously, I would love to have a response from him about this.

And I would also like to understand how Trump is nothing but someone going after white supremacy. These are truly very stupid observations.

[X-man]

Just stop. This is sad.

What's sad is that you won't engage with the actual issue, but rather instead play your little games. Thanks for not playing.

[UCGRAD4X]

Many have bought into the narrative that has been spun that he is a buffoon, bigot and womanizer (or even worse).

The long standing "war on poverty" with billions (maybe trillions) spent and multiple programs, legislation. a politically correct cultural and faux compassionate politicking has not benefited anyone but the legislators and fear mongering race-bating whores. Recent low employment rates for blacks and Hispanics and other minority groups and generally high labor participation rates, elusive for years of flowery rhetoric from polished politicians have seen historic lows. Year of accepting the systematic killing of blacks by abortion and an abortion industry that honors it's patron saint, a supporter of the exact result, the annihilation of a professed substandard race, mills located disproportionately in predominantly poor black communities.

Whose policies have helped and whose policies have not benefited minorities.

He's not a polished politician. He is not running scared of the message managers and opposition rhetoric as past conservative legislators have been. Compared to past Ivy Leaguers he sounds understandably crude and out of place. He is not afraid to speak his mind and worry about hurting other people's frail angst ridden, politically correct butt-hurt sensibilities. "My feeling were hurt, therefore you are wrong," despite facts to the contrary. He offends people because the truth is often ugly, corruption should be called out as such without sugary apologies and hollow caveats.

He doesn't play their game and threatens the cash cow that has made millionaires out of penniless professional politicians. He is a deal maker and people are shocked by the means in which he operates. But, more often than not, he gets a deal that benefits America and the American people. Sometimes his arrogance, rhetoric, flamboyance and hyperbole are negotiating tactics, "The art of the deal".

Voters are understandably tired of politicians who promise much and deliver little. It remains to see if he has and they prefer this way to the past.

[xudash]

Many have bought into the narrative that has been spun that he is a buffoon, bigot and womanizer (or even worse).

The long standing "war on poverty" with billions (maybe trillions) spent and multiple programs, legislation. a politically correct cultural and faux compassionate politicking has not benefited anyone but the legislators and fear mongering race-bating whores. Recent low employment rates for blacks and Hispanics and other minority groups and generally high labor participation rates, elusive for years of flowery rhetoric from polished politicians have seen historic lows. Year of accepting the systematic killing of blacks by abortion and an abortion industry that honors it's patron saint, a supporter of the exact result, the annihilation of a professed substandard race, mills located disproportionately in predominantly poor black communities.

Whose policies have helped and whose policies have not benefited minorities.

He's not a polished politician. He is not running scared of the message managers and opposition rhetoric as past conservative legislators have been. Compared to past Ivy Leaguers he sounds understandably crude and out of place. He is not afraid to speak his mind and worry about hurting other people's frail angst ridden, politically correct butt-hurt sensibilities. "My feeling were hurt, therefore you are wrong," despite facts to the contrary. He offends people because the truth is often ugly, corruption should be called out as such without sugary apologies and hollow caveats.

He doesn't play their game and threatens the cash cow that has made millionaires out of penniless professional politicians. He is a deal maker and people are shocked by the means in which he operates. But, more often than not, he gets a deal that benefits America and the American people. Sometimes his arrogance, rhetoric, flamboyance and hyperbole are negotiating tactics, "The art of the deal".

Voters are understandably tired of politicians who promise much and deliver little. It remains to see if he has and they prefer this way to the past.

Excellent post.

[SemajParlor]

And I would also like to understand how Trump is nothing but someone going after white supremacy.

Totally. 100 percent.

[SemajParlor]

Many have bought into the narrative that has been spun that he is a buffoon, bigot and womanizer (or even worse) .

I agree. He has confirmed to never have done anything or to have said anything to suggest he is that sort.

[Strange Brew]

Oh, you mean Harry Reid's fiscal cliff. More liberal ineptitude.

Missed these posts. X-Man, you’re wrong about just about everything. Own it. You’re stuck in a 19th/early 20th century philosophy which has been a proven failure.

The rebound after the market dipped (briefly) had more to do with trade policy and consumer confidence than Fed policy. The roof would blow off if the Dems would cut spending (they control the House)

[X-man]

Missed these posts. X-Man, you’re wrong about just about everything. Own it. You’re stuck in a 19th/early 20th century philosophy which has been a proven failure.

The rebound after the market dipped (briefly) had more to do with trade policy and consumer confidence than Fed policy. The roof would blow off if the Dems would cut spending (they control the House)
Ah, more personal attacks. You have no more idea about what my economics philosophy is than you have regarding the influence of Fed policy to move markets. But please, have the last word. I'm done trying to have a conversation with a stone.

[Strange Brew]

Ah, more personal attacks. You have no more idea about what my economics philosophy is than you have regarding the influence of Fed policy to move markets. But please, have the last word. I'm done trying to have a conversation with a stone.

Oh, the irony. :)

[bobbiemcgee]

Many have bought into the narrative that has been spun that he is a buffoon, bigot and womanizer (or even worse).

Really? There's no "buying in". He's a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 6 times a DAY. He says Mexicans are murderers and rapists. 83% of blacks say he's a racist, so might have a little work to do there. 19 women say they were sexually assaulted by him. Paid off two ho's, one who he was nailing right after his 3rd wife had a baby. Said he "moved on" Nancy O'Dell and tried to nail her but she wasn't having any of it cuz she was married. "I failed". Scumbag.

Says he just goes up to women and start kissing them and "I grab them by the Pu$$y". Geez.

[xudash]

Totally. 100 percent.

You literally believe he is going after white supremacy?

[paulxu]

This guy is a Nobel winner in economics. Maybe he knows something about our economy...maybe not.
But it's an interesting perspective on our current situation if you read it through.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/grim-truth-about-trump-economy-by-joseph-e-stiglitz-2020-01

[scoscox]

This guy is a Nobel winner in economics. Maybe he knows something about our economy...maybe not.
But it's an interesting perspective on our current situation if you read it through.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/grim-truth-about-trump-economy-by-joseph-e-stiglitz-2020-01

what he says is mostly on point, as far as saying GDP doesn't reflect the health of the country and local economies, but blaming it on trump is an enormous copout.

the country still hasn't recovered from the loss of manufacturing jobs overseas. other discussions about the economy are mostly trivial by comparison. trump's appeal to many is that he addressed that with a strong stance on china and his opposition to things like nafta, etc.

[Masterofreality]

Really? There's no "buying in". He's a chronic and habitual liar. Lies 6 times a DAY. He says Mexicans are murderers and rapists. 83% of blacks say he's a racist, so might have a little work to do there. 19 women say they were sexually assaulted by him. Paid off two ho's, one who he was nailing right after his 3rd wife had a baby. Said he "moved on" Nancy O'Dell and tried to nail her but she wasn't having any of it cuz she was married. "I failed". Scumbag.

Says he just goes up to women and start kissing them and "I grab them by the Pu$$y". Geez.

So, what say you about the incredible Lying Machine Elizabeth "Native American" Warren? You know, the prevaricator, who's most recent lie was that she is the only Dem candidate to have "Executive experience"? Never mind Joe Biden former VP in the Executive Branch and Mayors Pete and Bloomberg? Warren didn't even serve as the leader of the agency that Obama nominated her for. She was never confirmed.

Dude, just understand that EVERY politician lies, "stretches" the truth, spins stats to their benefit that may or may not be accurate, and has, we'll just say, "lapses" in their credibility. When you begin to understand that, and focus on POLICY rather than Personality, you'll make better choices and be a lot calmer.

[Masterofreality]

This guy is a Nobel winner in economics. Maybe he knows something about our economy...maybe not.
But it's an interesting perspective on our current situation if you read it through.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/grim-truth-about-trump-economy-by-joseph-e-stiglitz-2020-01

Yeah, you know what. Paul Krugman, the guy who said the economy would tank if Trump was elected, won a Nobel prize too. For what I have zero idea. Krugman has been wrong on every economic issue that he's opined upon for the last 20 years. The NY Times doesn't even print him anymore. A total clown.
So, just because someone is awarded a prize, like Obama's peace prize which he did nothing to earn and caused the creation of ISIS through his trash policies, doesn't mean that they know what the hell their talking about.

[paulxu]

MOR, I didn't link to that article for the guy's opinions. I did it for the facts he enumerates.

- the tax cut benefits the 1% and .1% even more. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th quintiles will see an increase
- the median wage for a full time male worker is lower than it was 40 years ago
- the tax cuts resulted in record stock buy backs, and pushed the deficit to 1 trillion a year
- foreign borrowing is increasing rapidly
- the trade deficit continues to grow

Hopefully we are not in for a repeat of 2008.

[X-man]

Yeah, you know what. Paul Krugman, the guy who said the economy would tank if Trump was elected, won a Nobel prize too. For what I have zero idea. Krugman has been wrong on every economic issue that he's opined upon for the last 20 years. The NY Times doesn't even print him anymore. A total clown.
So, just because someone is awarded a prize, like Obama's peace prize which he did nothing to earn and caused the creation of ISIS through his trash policies, doesn't mean that they know what the hell their talking about.
He still writes for the NY Times. Here's a recent column you might enjoy: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/opinion/obamacare-medicare-for-all.html?searchResultPosition=2.

[SemajParlor]

https://twitter.com/JoshLeCash/status/1219297592409935872?s=20

"wasnt that one of the shithole countries? I can't remember if that was on the list or not. "

Brilliant.

[Masterofreality]

He still writes for the NY Times. Here's a recent column you might enjoy: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/opinion/obamacare-medicare-for-all.html?searchResultPosition=2.

If it’s possible, which it really isn’t, I think even less of the NYT for printing that charlatan.

[bobbiemcgee]

None of the "Medicare for all" candidates stand a chance imho. They need to quit. 180 million Americans aren't giving up their private health care for some unknown BS. 55 million union members have fought for years for their exceptional coverage. 65% of the population are against it. The country's already bankrupt with the new budget. Seniors get screwed since they already paid for it with 50-60 years of contributions (stolen by congress, of course) Utter Bullshit. Stop the fantasy.
The "Free College" is bullshit too. Maybe subsidize JUCO's and definitely trade schools. Every kid not going to college should be able to learn a trade and hopefully graduate with a position in their field. Then, they can pursue whatever college interests them to further their education.

And while I'm on the soapbox, no friggin' reason why diabetics in Detroit can drive 3 miles and get 90% off their life saving insulin. Stop the madness.

I don't know how Warren got in the discussion, but I'm certainly no fan.

[Masterofreality]

Currently at the hospital where my wife is having outpatient surgery. Our vascular surgeon was born and is from Colombia. Great guy.
I asked him a question about the troubles down there and he said it was getting better because the government finally had the balls to crack down on the drug lords and they signed a peace treaty. He also said, however, that many of the more minor, but still dangerous underlords that had been involved in Colombia’s drug trade had relocated to Mexico, and made a mess of things in many places there.
Then he dropped the bombshell that he was 1000% in favor of the border wall. He said he really wasn’t a “Trump Guy” but the border policy was right all the way. He said also that many of the human traffickers who were “shepherding” people out of Colombia at its worst point, were now plying their trade in Mexico. He closed by saying that anybody who was a bleeding heart about the US being strong at the border was an “idiota”. I think you can probably translate.
For what it’s worth from a native South American.

[Masterofreality]

I don't know how Warren got in the discussion, but I'm certainly no fan.

Warren got in this discussion because you couldn’t stop railing about Trump’s lies. Warren is full of lies, as is every damn politician.
Drop your selective outrage.

Footnote: The New York Times has endorsed a ticket of Elizabeth Warren & Amy Klobuchar. Hey, hey!! What a winner....for Trump.

What garbage.

[GoMuskies]

If it’s possible, which it really isn’t, I think even less of the NYT for printing that charlatan.

They could almost endorse a Democratic candidate for President. Almost.

[STL_XUfan]

Currently at the hospital where my wife is having outpatient surgery. Our vascular surgeon was born and is from Colombia. Great guy.
I asked him a question about the troubles down there and he said it was getting better because the government finally had the balls to crack down on the drug lords and they signed a peace treaty. He also said, however, that many of the more minor, but still dangerous underlords that had been involved in Colombia’s drug trade had relocated to Mexico, and made a mess of things in many places there.
Then he dropped the bombshell that he was 1000% in favor of the border wall. He said he really wasn’t a “Trump Guy” but the border policy was right all the way. He said also that many of the human traffickers who were “shepherding” people out of Colombia at its worst point, were now plying their trade in Mexico. He closed by saying that anybody who was a bleeding heart about the US being strong at the border was an “idiota”. I think you can probably translate.
For what it’s worth from a native South American.

I think this was the longest version of the "I just left a hipster coffee shop" meme I have seen.

[JTG]

MOR, I didn't link to that article for the guy's opinions. I did it for the facts he enumerates.

- the tax cut benefits the 1% and .1% even more. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th quintiles will see an increase
- the median wage for a full time male worker is lower than it was 40 years ago
- the tax cuts resulted in record stock buy backs, and pushed the deficit to 1 trillion a year
- foreign borrowing is increasing rapidly
- the trade deficit continues to grow

Hopefully we are not in for a repeat of 2008.

That only 1% benefitted is crap. Either that, or by some quirk of fate, I, a middle class retiree, am somehow in the 1%, because my taxes went down by $1000.
Plus anyone who has stock, or an IRA or 401k benefitted. That's way more than 1%. Anyone with a half way decent job has a company 401k, most retirees have some type of retirement account. Those all increased in the last 3 years. Millions of run of the mill, middle class folks benefitted. Did people in NYC, New Jersey, Chicago or LA benefit ? maybe not, sorry for their luck.

[paulxu]

Short term you got a benefit, and we added a trillion to the deficit.
Long term that benefit will expire except for the very top of the heap.

[bobbiemcgee]

You can cut through trump's wall with a $100 reciprocating saw from home depot in a few minutes. trump even admitted it.

[xudash]

You can cut through trump's wall with a $100 reciprocating saw from home depot in a few minutes. trump even admitted it.

Do you favor open borders?

[scoscox]

You can cut through trump's wall with a $100 reciprocating saw from home depot in a few minutes. trump even admitted it.

i agree we should reinforce it and fill it in with concrete

[bobbiemcgee]

Do you favor open borders?

Do you support a 2000 mile porous structure?

[Muskie in dayton]

Short term you got a benefit, and we added a trillion to the deficit.
Long term that benefit will expire except for the very top of the heap.

Well... not exactly. Despite the tax cuts, the US Government took took in more revenue in FY2019 than ever before in history. https://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/federal_revenue_chart

But... you are correct that we added to the deficit, but it’s because our crooked political friends (both parties and the President) can’t stop spending like drunken sailors, not because of the tax cuts.

[noteggs]

Obviously the Democratic talking points are going to be about the top 1 percent (the have and have nots). It always has been, but it might be a harder narrative to use this time for the middle class. Are they better off, some people think so and not so much for others. It all depends on what people read and which political party they’re part of.

Here’s an article that concludes the middle class is doing better financially. Ironically using same data (Census Bureau’s) which was used by the Economist who won the Nobel. Not saying which one is correct, but shouldn’t we be rooting for all Americans? Was going to throw in my two cents about revenues, but just saw Muskie in Dayton’s post and think he nailed it.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2019/10/10/the_economic_news_from_the_census_bureau_is_very_g ood_103941.html

[bjf123]

They’re all hypocrites. As I’ve said before, if the facts were the same, but it was a democratic president saying the same thing to the president of Ukraine, the Republicans would be calling for impeachment and the Democrats and media would be saying the impeachment is a political hatchet job.

This link shows the Democrats and media essentially saying the thing the Republicans are saying now during the Clinton impeachment. There is one difference, President Clinton actually did commit a crime by lying under oath to the FBI.


https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/bill-cunningham/content/2020-01-20-flashback-the-liberal-media-during-the-clinton-impeachment/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

Do you support a 2000 mile porous structure?

Well, the Dems wouldn't fund the proper one and shut the government down over it, so something is better than nothing?
Last January all the talking head Dems like Pelosi & Schumer kept claiming that there wasn't a crisis at the border, While a mass migration was heading north through Mexico. The Dems actions encouraged all those poor folks to keep coming. Then, the Dems cry and moan about "Oh the detainment camps" when Obama had detained even more. Trump was stuck with enforcing the laws on the books, oh, because the Dems refused to negotiate a reasonable solution.

So, Bobbie. Do you support funding a proper, deterrent wall?

[bobbiemcgee]

So, Bobbie. Do you support funding a proper, deterrent wall?

Sure, as long as Mexico pays for it.

[SemajParlor]

Sure, as long as Mexico pays for it.

Be careful, there's some bad hombres.

[SemajParlor]

Did people in NYC, New Jersey, Chicago or LA benefit ? maybe not, sorry for their luck.

Yeah, screw those insignificant Un-Americans and their federal taxes!

[SemajParlor]

I personally wish the 100 million people in this country that live in the Northeast + California and pay for everything in this country would stop bitching. All of them are wrong. The businessman and NYC celeb from Queens is a true hero to middle America. New Yorkers just don't get him.

[Masterofreality]

Sure, as long as Mexico pays for it.

And why would Mexico do that when they didn't stop the caravan from coming into their country in the first place? And when the "Bad Hombres" as SemajParlor calls them would be exiting their country and victimizing ours?
You and your leftys are on the wrong side of this issue my friend. The polls are clear on that.

[paulxu]

OK then.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/64-oppose-trumps-move-build-wall-asylum-30/story?id=62702683

[Smails]

They’re all hypocrites. As I’ve said before, if the facts were the same, but it was a democratic president saying the same thing to the president of Ukraine, the Republicans would be calling for impeachment and the Democrats and media would be saying the impeachment is a political hatchet job.



By and large I agree with this sentiment, but this is the first time I can remember a political party (Dems) using impeachment as part of their post-election platform. They have been hell-bent since election night to remove DJT from office and even Nancy said they have been working on this for 2 and ha half years. WTF?? Republicans jumped on the opportunity to roast Clinton when they found out about Monica and and the lying under oath, which turned out to be a political disaster. It blows my mind that the party of intelligence and IQ would think that this would end up any different.

[X-man]

They’re all hypocrites. As I’ve said before, if the facts were the same, but it was a democratic president saying the same thing to the president of Ukraine, the Republicans would be calling for impeachment and the Democrats and media would be saying the impeachment is a political hatchet job.

This link shows the Democrats and media essentially saying the thing the Republicans are saying now during the Clinton impeachment. There is one difference, President Clinton actually did commit a crime by lying under oath to the FBI.


https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/bill-cunningham/content/2020-01-20-flashback-the-liberal-media-during-the-clinton-impeachment/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Before moving to Cincinnati, I lived in DC for 10 years doing research for the Bureau of Labor Statistics. During my time there, I got so fed up with ALL politicians that (1) I actually stopped voting, and (2) it was all I could do to not punch them in the nose whenever I ran into one (something that happens all the time in DC because face it, that town is filthy with politicians). A lot of my friends worked on the Hill, and the stories they told about their bosses and office environment only reinforced my negative feelings about all politicians. After a few years away from that sewer, I began to vote again. But I won't volunteer for any of them (although I did some canvassing for Obama because I believed he would be a transformational President), and I still trust none of them to make decisions for any other reason than preserving their own job security.

[bobbiemcgee]

And why would Mexico do that when they didn't stop the caravan from coming into their country in the first place? And when the "Bad Hombres" as SemajParlor calls them would be exiting their country and victimizing ours?
You and your leftys are on the wrong side of this issue my friend. The polls are clear on that.

Trump said Mexico would pay for it. Campaign promise. Did he lie? Oh no!

I am left-handed but a registered Independent for 53 yrs. or as they say in Colorado "no party".

[scoscox]

Before moving to Cincinnati, I lived in DC for 10 years doing research for the Bureau of Labor Statistics. During my time there, I got so fed up with ALL politicians that (1) I actually stopped voting, and (2) it was all I could do to not punch them in the nose whenever I ran into one (something that happens all the time in DC because face it, that town is filthy with politicians). A lot of my friends worked on the Hill, and the stories they told about their bosses and office environment only reinforced my negative feelings about all politicians. After a few years away from that sewer, I began to vote again. But I won't volunteer for any of them (although I did some canvassing for Obama because I believed he would be a transformational President), and I still trust none of them to make decisions for any other reason than preserving their own job security.

the fact that most of these same people abhor trump is part of his appeal. it's also why hillary's comment that "nobody likes" bernie will end up helping him.

the lack of self-awareness is mind-boggling. hillary has to know she's one of the most unpopular politicians currently living right? these people care more about whether their buddies in congress like them than if the american people like them or if what they're doing is right

[GoMuskies]

The Sanders/Clinton feud being rekindled in January 2020 is just so delicious. Democrats know how to keep it interesting!

[Muskie in dayton]

Before moving to Cincinnati, I lived in DC for 10 years doing research for the Bureau of Labor Statistics. During my time there, I got so fed up with ALL politicians that (1) I actually stopped voting, and (2) it was all I could do to not punch them in the nose whenever I ran into one (something that happens all the time in DC because face it, that town is filthy with politicians). A lot of my friends worked on the Hill, and the stories they told about their bosses and office environment only reinforced my negative feelings about all politicians. After a few years away from that sewer, I began to vote again. But I won't volunteer for any of them (although I did some canvassing for Obama because I believed he would be a transformational President), and I still trust none of them to make decisions for any other reason than preserving their own job security.

Amen. I’ll add that those of us who support one party or the other (you know who you are) only exacerbate the problem. So don’t stop voting, X-man, but vote 3rd party, independent or even write in. The more who do push us closer to breaking this mess.

[Caf]

The Sanders/Clinton feud being rekindled in January 2020 is just so delicious. Democrats know how to keep it interesting!

I love the simplicity of, "Nobody likes him." I have a hard time putting into words how much I can't stand Bernie. Completely insufferable in every way. He is the oldest teenager on planet Earth.

[scoscox]

I love the simplicity of, "Nobody likes him." I have a hard time putting into words how much I can't stand Bernie. Completely insufferable in every way. He is the oldest teenager on planet Earth.

okay, but lots of people like him

[xubrew]

The Sanders/Clinton feud being rekindled in January 2020 is just so delicious. Democrats know how to keep it interesting!

I do not want Trump to win again. The problem is that he will be running against a Democrat, which means he will probably win again.

[GoMuskies]

I do not want Trump to win again. The problem is that he will be running against a Democrat, which means he will probably win again.

In theory, neither do I. But these people...

[chico]

The Sanders/Clinton feud being rekindled in January 2020 is just so delicious. Democrats know how to keep it interesting!

She just can't help herself. Much like her husband with other women or me with donuts.

[Caf]

okay, but lots of people like him

Telling people whatever they want to hear really helps in that department.

[Masterofreality]

Trump said Mexico would pay for it. Campaign promise. Did he lie? Oh no!

I am left-handed but a registered Independent for 53 yrs. or as they say in Colorado "no party".

Did Pocahontas Warren lie when she said that her heritage was "American Indian" to get benefits?
Does Bernie Lie when he says that his payoff of College Loans will be fully funded by a "tax on the rich"?

Dude. EVERY POLITICIAN LIES!!!. Give it up.

[scoscox]

Telling people whatever they want to hear really helps in that department.

no argument there

[GoMuskies]

Now that Bernie Sanders has embraced his endorsement from that awful, transphobic, Nazi-adjacent Joe Rogan, I guess he'll have to drop out of the race.

[Masterofreality]

Now that Bernie Sanders has embraced his endorsement from that awful, transphobic, Nazi-adjacent Joe Rogan, I guess he'll have to drop out of the race.

The Dem lineup is about as good as the A10 this year- without VD (their Obama)

[GenerationX]

Telling people whatever they want to hear really helps in that department.

He’s been saying the same things forever, not what “people want to hear.” And in fact he’s the only candidate who doesn’t take a position for job security. You may not agree with what he says, but he doesn’t say something or take a position unless he believes it.

I agree with those who say trump’s appeal is that he’s not a typical politician and believe he tapped into people’s fears and hardships with his rhetoric. The problem is that he’s a pathological liar whereas Bernie isn’t. And many who don’t necessarily agree with all of Bernie’s policies support him for very similar reasons in that he speaks to the common person. However, he’s not a typical politician, means what he says, and will not be bought.

[Caf]

He’s been saying the same things forever, not what “people want to hear.” And in fact he’s the only candidate who doesn’t take a position for job security. You may not agree with what he says, but he doesn’t say something or take a position unless he believes it.

I agree with those who say trump’s appeal is that he’s not a typical politician and believe he tapped into people’s fears and hardships with his rhetoric. The problem is that he’s a pathological liar whereas Bernie isn’t. And many who don’t necessarily agree with all of Bernie’s policies support him for very similar reasons in that he speaks to the common person. However, he’s not a typical politician, means what he says, and will not be bought.

Telling people as President he can pass Medicare for all, free tuition for all, a green new deal, expanded social security, housing for all, or do so without completely eliminating freedom and economic growth is lying and its what people want to hear. There's a reason he hasn't gone near explaining how any of this would work, it's because he doesn't know, or worse he knows it won't work. He has been selling all of the goods and revealing none of the costs. There's no doubt we can issue enough debt to do these things, Lord knows we can't raise enough in taxes, but his unwillingness to have the conversation is deceitful. Warren at least tried issuing a plan for Medicare for all and it made a mockery of logic.

[GenerationX]

Telling people as President he can pass Medicare for all, free tuition for all, a green new deal, expanded social security, housing for all, or do so without completely eliminating freedom and economic growth is lying and its what people want to hear. There's a reason he hasn't gone near explaining how any of this would work, it's because he doesn't know, or worse he knows it won't work. He has been selling all of the goods and revealing none of the costs. There's no doubt we can issue enough debt to do these things, Lord knows we can't raise enough in taxes, but his unwillingness to have the conversation is deceitful. Warren at least tried issuing a plan for Medicare for all and it made a mockery of logic.

Again, you may not agree with his policies or think they are doable. He’s been very honest about the fact that it won’t be easy (“Not me, us”), but his policies have become much more mainstream and popular since his first run. And the status quo is definitely not working. I’m not naive enough to think his policies would be implemented immediately or even at all in some cases, but he is moving the needle. People who believe in his policies know that they’ll never happen if you go in conceding that they’re impossible, though. If enough people support them and put pressure on the politicians, I believe he can have some success.

[Xville]

Again, you may not agree with his policies or think they are doable. He’s been very honest about the fact that it won’t be easy (“Not me, us”), but his policies have become much more mainstream and popular since his first run. And the status quo is definitely not working. I’m not naive enough to think his policies would be implemented immediately or even at all in some cases, but he is moving the needle. People who believe in his policies know that they’ll never happen if you go in conceding that they’re impossible, though. If enough people support them and put pressure on the politicians, I believe he can have some success.

Lol

[GenerationX]

Lol

You cannot dispute what I said with respect to the conversation, of course.

[xudash]

Again, you may not agree with his policies or think they are doable. He’s been very honest about the fact that it won’t be easy (“Not me, us”), but his policies have become much more mainstream and popular since his first run. And the status quo is definitely not working. I’m not naive enough to think his policies would be implemented immediately or even at all in some cases, but he is moving the needle. People who believe in his policies know that they’ll never happen if you go in conceding that they’re impossible, though. If enough people support them and put pressure on the politicians, I believe he can have some success.

What in the “status quo” is not working?

[Xville]

You cannot dispute what I said with respect to the conversation, of course.

Actually I can, I'm just not going to bother. Status quo is working pretty great for me as it is for many. There is never going to be 100% satisfaction, that's not real life.

[Caf]

Again, you may not agree with his policies or think they are doable. He’s been very honest about the fact that it won’t be easy (“Not me, us”), but his policies have become much more mainstream and popular since his first run. And the status quo is definitely not working. I’m not naive enough to think his policies would be implemented immediately or even at all in some cases, but he is moving the needle. People who believe in his policies know that they’ll never happen if you go in conceding that they’re impossible, though. If enough people support them and put pressure on the politicians, I believe he can have some success.

You can say it, again, but this is not me disagreeing with his political views. I am also not accusing him of having lofty goals. I am accusing him of lying about how he would get it done and the implications of doing so. There is no scenario in a single economic study where his policies are not disastrous to the deficit and economic growth, none. He has economists on staff whose central philosophy is that the only limitation to deficits, on a nominal and time basis, should be inflation. Why? Because he needs to get people comfortable with insurmountable mountains of debt. Issuing debt and handing out the proceeds is easy. It's about the only thing the government has been successful in doing in half a century. The impacts, a Japanese style stagnant economy where the Fed ends up owning businesses, another radically polarizing President who pisses off half of the population, is difficult.

Ultimately though you prove my point with this line: "People who believe in his policies know that they’ll never happen if you go in conceding that they’re impossible, though." Yes, if you get enough people to desire his outcomes they will happen. The ramifications will be a mystery to those people though because he has never gone near explaining them.

[bobbiemcgee]

Well, now we have Bolton saying POTUS lied. Quelle surprise.

[noteggs]

I normally surf on evening news shows, but it’s interesting most are talking more about Bolton vs Trump’s defense teams statements. Curious why this didn’t come out before since NSC had almost a month to review and leak Bolton’s book (rhetorical)?

[xudash]

Well, now we have Bolton saying POTUS lied. Quelle surprise.

#letssellsomebooks

[bjf123]

I normally surf on evening news shows, but it’s interesting most are talking more about Bolton vs Trump’s defense teams statements. Curious why this didn’t come out before since NSC had almost a month to review and leak Bolton’s book (rhetorical)?

The timing does seem suspicious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[STL_XUfan]

The timing does seem suspicious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

John Bolton cares about two things, regime change and John Bolton. So the timing seems pretty on brand for him.

[Masterofreality]

The President’s defense team has been shredding this “case” brought by the Clown Shiff Show.
They have absolutely refuted every single BS allegation that these partisan hacks brought up. The ridiculous way that this trash was rushed through the House, and not even done in line with the Constitution, is coming home to roost. Based upon the latest aggregate Poll numbers, Trump has his highest approval rating since his Inauguration.
Thanks for guaranteeing a Trump Landslide in November Schifflosi!!!

[Masterofreality]

And now Schiff is just embarrassing himself. He's trying to "Schiff(t) the responsibility that his Chamber is called for to perform in the Constitution to the Senate. They abjectly failed at their responsibility to perform, because they were so afraid of where the real evidence would be if they called ALL witnesses from both sides, and they weren't willing to go through the proper Due Process procedure through the court system, because it wouldn't meet their little self-imposed tinetable. If they had, would have ruined their case from jump and then they couldn't make any political points. Too bad Schifty. The Senate is not an investigative body, you and Nasty Nancy's chamber is, and you did a half ass job. It's not the Senate's job to clean up your crap.
Get the hell out of here, Schiff. Senators, get this ridiculous process off the calendar, and let's move on to things that matter.

[xudash]

The President’s defense team has been shredding this “case” brought by the Clown Shiff Show.
They have absolutely refuted every single BS allegation that these partisan hacks brought up. The ridiculous way that this trash was rushed through the House, and not even done in line with the Constitution, is coming home to roost. Based upon the latest aggregate Poll numbers, Trump has his highest approval rating since his Inauguration.
Thanks for guaranteeing a Trump Landslide in November Schifflosi!!!

Showing them videos of themselves from the Clinton proceedings, defending along the exact same position as this current defense team, was priceless.

But I can't decide if those in the aggregate were more priceless than just the one of Nadler, masquerading as the Hindenburg.

[Masterofreality]

Showing them videos of themselves from the Clinton proceedings, defending along the exact same position as this current defense team, was priceless.

But I can't decide if those in the aggregate were more priceless than just the one of Nadler, masquerading as the Hindenburg.

Yeah, wow. He looked like he pulled up to the Helium pump.

By the way. Want Fairness and Balance? Do yourself a favor and watch the hour long presentation by Alan Dershowitz last night that is available on You Tube. Dersh voted for Clinton, defended Bill Clinton, does not agree with too many of the policies of Trump, but he totally ripped apart the "House Managers" case for impeachment.

What a sham.

[xudash]

Yeah, wow. He looked like he pulled up to the Helium pump.

By the way. Want Fairness and Balance? Do yourself a favor and watch the hour long presentation by Alan Dershowitz last night that is available on You Tube. Dersh voted for Clinton, defended Bill Clinton, does not agree with too many of the policies of Trump, but he totally ripped apart the "House Managers" case for impeachment.

What a sham.

Some in the media are calling it the Varsity responding to the JV team. Schiff and company have gotten shredded in this thing.

The Clinton Vote: On February 12, Clinton was acquitted on both counts as neither received the necessary two-thirds majority vote of the senators present for conviction and removal from office—in this instance 67. On Article One, 45 senators voted to convict while 55 voted for acquittal. On Article Two, 50 senators voted to convict while 50 voted for acquittal.[3] Clinton remained in office for the remainder of his second term.

Clinton was caught lying and still survived it - over a sexual transgression in the Oval Office of all things (no surprise with him and given the fleabag that he married).

We'll see if we have people of character - at least some character - or weak-kneed hacks this time around. Yeah right.

[GoMuskies]

You guys are actually watching the impeachment proceedings?!? Respect.

I figured I would just wait for the super-fair Hollywood portrayal starring very evenhanded Alec Baldwin.

[xudash]

You guys are actually watching the impeachment proceedings?!? Respect.

I figured I would just wait for the super-fair Hollywood portrayal starring very evenhanded Alec Baldwin.

Ha! They used Alec to fill up Nadler.

[GoMuskies]

Dianne Feinstein apparently agrees with MOR and 'dash.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-01-28/trump-team-wraps-impeachment-defense-with-an-elephant-in-the-senate-john-bolton

[paulxu]

Well, all that certainly explains why Trump released a partial telling of the phone call, not the full transcript.
And certainly explains why not one document or witness came from the White House as requested.

The unitary executive that Barr loves so much is alive and well.

[xudash]

Well, all that certainly explains why Trump released a partial telling of the phone call, not the full transcript.
And certainly explains why not one document or witness came from the White House as requested.

The unitary executive that Barr loves so much is alive and well.

Did he not release the full transcript?

Your Far Left Geek's process was flawed and tainted. The White House didn't have to cooperate with that nonsense, and Pelosi was too afraid to go to court over it.

Feinstein: "He withheld vital foreign assistance for personal political gain. That can’t be allowed to stand.” - - utter bullshit. Give up on this drivel.

[bjf123]

You guys are actually watching the impeachment proceedings?!? Respect.

I figured I would just wait for the super-fair Hollywood portrayal starring very evenhanded Alec Baldwin.

I watched last night because there was literally nothing on any other channel that interested me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vee4xu]

To people on both sides of this painfully long thread. Get out of your respective silos, take a deep breath of fresh air and open your collective minds to other opinions. Otherwise, the parody of this interminable thread will simply exacerbate. I truly wish that the second law of thermodynamics would come into play as it relates to the future of this thread.

[bobbiemcgee]

Did he not release the full transcript?

NO. It's still in the vault. He released the Trump summary which we all know can't be trusted because he's a chronic liar.

[Masterofreality]

There is something amazing that I just discovered. Consider the following:
-The Left painted Trump as a Racist from jump
-The Left accused Trump of Colluding with Russia in the election. (Later found untrue)
-The Left got a FISA Warrant based upon falsified information and slurred Trump for it.
-The Left got a Mueller investigation that found zero, but slandered the President.
-The Left rammed through a totally partisan Impeachment proceeding based upon nothing but an unidentified Whistleblower and second hand gossip. Not hard evidence. They also had an entire month to themselves of trying to sell this trash to the American Public.
-The Left had a fawning lapdog Mainstream Media slavishly waiting to go right along and slander Trump at every turn.
But, know what’s amazing?
That at this point in their Presidency, Trump has a higher, at worst a statistical tie, of Approval Rating as Obama.
Trump- 45.2% Approval. Obama- 45.0%.
(Source: Trump- Real Clear Politics- Poll Aggregate 1/27/20 , Obama- Gallup Poll 1/31/2012. Readily accessible on web)

Obama had the most uncritical, friendly and “hands off” media probably of all time.
Despite this SchiffShow, the American Public is not deceived. Suck it Adam.

[paulxu]

You've got a guy who:
- avoided the draft with bone spurs
- claims to have been first in his class, but sued the school to prevent release his records
- started with a gift of millions from his dad, who apparently scammed the money through a variety of means in the apartment business
- bankrupted two casinos (who bankrupts casinos?)
- ran a scam University and had to pay back millions to people he scammed
- ran a scam charity and had to pay millions back when it was uncovered
- has no governmental experience
- ran a successful reality TV show of firing people, but won't fire anyone in real life himself

You elect this guy as president of our country...and you wonder why all this is going on? Really?

[scoscox]

You've got a guy who:
- avoided the draft with bone spurs
- claims to have been first in his class, but sued the school to prevent release his records
- started with a gift of millions from his dad, who apparently scammed the money through a variety of means in the apartment business
- bankrupted two casinos (who bankrupts casinos?)
- ran a scam University and had to pay back millions to people he scammed
- ran a scam charity and had to pay millions back when it was uncovered
- has no governmental experience
- ran a successful reality TV show of firing people, but won't fire anyone in real life himself

You elect this guy as president of our country...and you wonder why all this is going on? Really?

what does any of that have to do with the democrats choosing to pursue impeachment on these grounds?

[paulxu]

I wasn't addressing impeachment.

[Masterofreality]

You elect this guy as president of our country...and you wonder why all this is going on? Really?

What is going on? Everything, that's EVERYTHING being better than it was for the previous 8 years before January 2017.

Care to check the record...other than the Left's and media slanders? Oh, and a fully partisan impeachment that our Founding Fathers warned against, and tried to put safeguards in so it wouldn't happen?

[xudash]

You've got a guy who:
- avoided the draft with bone spurs
- claims to have been first in his class, but sued the school to prevent release his records
- started with a gift of millions from his dad, who apparently scammed the money through a variety of means in the apartment business
- bankrupted two casinos (who bankrupts casinos?)
- ran a scam University and had to pay back millions to people he scammed
- ran a scam charity and had to pay millions back when it was uncovered
- has no governmental experience
- ran a successful reality TV show of firing people, but won't fire anyone in real life himself

You elect this guy as president of our country...and you wonder why all this is going on? Really?

Paul, I have to assume that you certainly didn't vote for Hillary the last time around, nor Obama in the prior two elections, nor Clinton when he won, based on your concerns about ethical and moral behavior.

And, based on that, you shouldn't be voting for any of the Democratic frontrunners this time around, as they are all corrupt:

1. Biden - no explanation required.
2. Bernie - a socialist millionaire. Utter bullshit.
3. Pocahontas - can't seem to tell the truth about anything and is a truly weak individual.


BTW, the fact that Trump has no government experience is a strength. Couple that with the fact that he is wealthy and you have a guy who can't be bought (e.g. Biden, Obama, Clinton's, et al).

[Lamont Sanford]

Paul, I have to assume that you certainly didn't vote for Hillary the last time around, nor Obama in the prior two elections, nor Clinton when he won, based on your concerns about ethical and moral behavior.

And, based on that, you shouldn't be voting for any of the Democratic frontrunners this time around, as they are all corrupt:

1. Biden - no explanation required.
2. Bernie - a socialist millionaire. Utter bullshit.
3. Pocahontas - can't seem to tell the truth about anything and is a truly weak individual.


BTW, the fact that Trump has no government experience is a strength. Couple that with the fact that he is wealthy and you have a guy who can't be bought (e.g. Biden, Obama, Clinton's, et al).

Preach brother! Preach!

[Nigel Tufnel]

Bums me out when posters I respect post on politics. Kind of wish this would be a politics free forum. Nobody is changing anyone else’s mind. I’m sure this is probably one of the most civil political forums anywhere. But there is still a lot of name calling and petulant behavior from respected posters. Mirrors our current President. I fucking hate politics.

[X-band '01]

I'd rather this be a football free forum since it is such an overrated trash sport at all levels.

[GoMuskies]

I'd rather this be a football free forum since it is such an overrated trash sport at all levels.

Agree. But we call it soccer in this country.

[fellahmuskie]

I'd rather this be a football free forum since it is such an overrated trash sport at all levels.

100% endorse

[MADXSTER]

I'm curious how many, if any, Dem senators vote against impeachment.

[Juice]

I'm curious how many, if any, Dem senators vote against impeachment.

I've seen rumors that 3 are thinking about it - Kyrsten Synema, Joe Manchin, and Doug Jones.

[X-band '01]

Synema and Jones make sense because they're Democrats running in deep red to pink states in November. Manchin (who also voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh) is a Blue Dog who might as well be Republican.

[bobbiemcgee]

Synema and Jones make sense because they're Democrats running in deep red to pink states in November. Manchin (who also voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh) is a Blue Dog who might as well be Republican.

They're all going to look pretty stupid when Bolton's book comes out, but then they'll claim he is a liberal hack.

[GoMuskies]

Just impeach him again. Impeachment doesn't really have any (many) rules. Double jeopardy and res judicata don't necessarily apply as far as I can tell (not that I've looked into it much).

[Caf]

Document shows Bernie Sanders’s team preparing dozens of potential executive orders - WP (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/30/document-shows-bernie-sanders-team-preparing-dozens-potential-executive-orders/?itid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_sandersplans-845am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)


Rising in the polls ahead of the Iowa caucuses, the candidate considers spelling out how he could go around Congress if elected president.

And the pendulum swings. One extreme to the next.

[Caf]

duplicate

[GoMuskies]

Document shows Bernie Sanders’s team preparing dozens of potential executive orders - WP (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/30/document-shows-bernie-sanders-team-preparing-dozens-potential-executive-orders/?itid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_sandersplans-845am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)



And the pendulum swings. One extreme to the next.

Uh oh, Bernie's getting ahead in the polls. Time to write a fear-mongering story about him!

Personally I've been afraid of Bernie for a WHILE!

[STL_XUfan]

They're all going to look pretty stupid when Bolton's book comes out, but then they'll claim he is a liberal hack.

Lou Dobbs had an amazing rant already tying Bolton to the Left. https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1221955559521509377?s=20

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPVArVDWsAIYUYB?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPVArVKX4AAh3lz.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPVArbFXsAIhZid?format=png&name=small

[Caf]

Uh oh, Bernie's getting ahead in the polls. Time to write a fear-mongering story about him!

Personally I've been afraid of Bernie for a WHILE!

I wonder if Bernie fans think the Washington Post is conservative/establishment.

[paulxu]

Dobbs' rant included the fact that Bolton and Comey used the same literary agents. Definitely a connection. Must be dirty.

(Of course Dobbs also uses the same agents.)

[Masterofreality]

I wonder if Bernie fans think the Washington Post is conservative/establishment.

They actually do. They blame them for being totally pro Clinton and screwing Bernie in 2016.

[Lamont Sanford]

They actually do. They blame them for being totally pro Clinton and screwing Bernie in 2016.

I thought Donna Brazile and Debbie Wasserman Schultz screwed Bernie in 2016!

We're all screwed in 2020 if America feels the Bern!

KAG!

[GoMuskies]

I'm stunned that Trump has been impeached but will not be removed. Who could possibly have predicted that this is how it would play out?!?

[GoMuskies]

Also, John Delaney announced he's dropping out of the presidential race. I know, right?

[muskiefan82]

I'm stunned that Trump has been impeached but will not be removed. Who could possibly have predicted that this is how it would play out?!?

At last! I can see the sarcasm font!! I knew it existed!!

[Masterofreality]

I'm stunned that Trump has been impeached but will not be removed. Who could possibly have predicted that this is how it would play out?!?


Also, John Delaney announced he's dropping out of the presidential race. I know, right?

Well, you do live in the Land of the Shock(er).

[Strange Brew]

USMCA seems to suck less than NAFTA. Win?

[GoMuskies]

Lost in the US amid impeachment....Brexit just happened.

[xubrew]

Our leaders suck, and we all suck for electing them.

Other than that things are fine.

[GoMuskies]

I was bigly proud of how the Chiefs represented my great state of Kansas last night!

[STL_XUfan]

I was bigly proud of how the Chiefs represented my great state of Kansas last night!

And there goes his support within the Mizzou fan base in the KC area. They put up with a lot, but confusing us with kansas is a step too far. We have burned down Lawrence for less.

[muskiefan82]

I was bigly proud of how the Chiefs represented my great state of Kansas last night!

Your Kansas? Don't you mean Ar Kansas?

[GoMuskies]

Your Kansas? Don't you mean Ar Kansas?

That's how the natives here pronounce the river that flows through downtown.

[xubrew]

I was bigly proud of how the Chiefs represented my great state of Kansas last night!

I didn't realize what everyone was talking about until just a few minutes ago.

The guy doesn't dish out many compliments, and when he does, he messes up. But, in all likelihood he will be the president for the next five years.

[GoMuskies]

The guy doesn't dish out many compliments, and when he does, he messes up.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/200.webp?cid=790b7611c9e7430fd204bbbf47d5bb483ab12 9c04eb05878&rid=200.webp

Haven't you learned by now that he never messes up? That tweet was perfect.

[xubrew]

Did he congratulate the state of Washington when the Nationals won the World Series?

[GoMuskies]

Ilhan Omar decided to tweet something similarly jaw-droppingly stupid in solidarity with Trump.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1224080280539017217?s=20

[Lamont Sanford]

Ilhan Omar decided to tweet something similarly jaw-droppingly stupid in solidarity with Trump.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1224080280539017217?s=20

The Twitter comments are hilarious. Must read.

[paulxu]

MAGA! (Except Mizzu)