Politics Thread

[boozehound]

It is interesting that the last two presidents our country has elected historically would be considered the least qualified and least experienced individuals to ever hold the office. One, I believe, was a one-term Senator with no executive experience. The other, I believe, had no political experience whatsoever. One could argue the benefits and detriments of both situations.

Yeah. I don't think it's a good thing. Just like I wouldn't want an 'outsider' as my surgeon or airline pilot I also do not necessarily want an 'outsider' as my President. I would like a more functioning government, but I don't believe that amateur Presidents are the way we should go about it.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump certainly isn't helping his case by constantly threatening the WB. 124 tweets over the weekend. Pretty outrageous.

[Caf]

Nope. Nobody running is worse than what we have now.

I see no indication of either party moving toward the aisle. If the Dems go Biden or Warren and don't win, you can bet your bottom dollar the party will swing to extremes by 2022-24. If they win in any scenario, the GOP will do the same. I hope I'm wrong, but as this thread clearly shows, people are far from coming together.

[scoscox]

Yeah. I don't think it's a good thing. Just like I wouldn't want an 'outsider' as my surgeon or airline pilot I also do not necessarily want an 'outsider' as my President. I would like a more functioning government, but I don't believe that amateur Presidents are the way we should go about it.

The problem is that the “insiders”/establishment has been totally unresponsive to the problems that the public has been struggling with and their outsider vote is the outcome of that. If the establishment won’t be responsive or effective, the people are gonna vote for outsiders to blow it up until they figure it out or are removed. That’s clearly the pattern

Of course the level to which political discourse has devolved probably has something to do with it as well although that’s probably more of a symptom

[scoscox]

What other option to people have other than their vote? None really and so they use it

[scoscox]

I see no indication of either party moving toward the aisle. If the Dems go Biden or Warren and don't win, you can bet your bottom dollar the party will swing to extremes by 2022-24. If they win in any scenario, the GOP will do the same. I hope I'm wrong, but as this thread clearly shows, people are far from coming together.

Trump is erratic and bombastic but hasn’t necessarily done a lot outside of historical precedent as far as policy. Protectionism has been done before although arguably never on this scale. Probably the most unprecedented thing he’s done is his work with North Korea.

Most of the democratic nominees, on the other hand, are all proposing a myriad of policies totally unprecedented in American history. Whether you think their policies are good or bad that’s a reality

[bobbiemcgee]

Probably the most unprecedented thing he’s done is his work with North Korea.

His "work" with NK has produced zip. Kim ain't ever giving up his nukes or he'll end up in the same hole as Kaddafi and Saddam.

[GoMuskies]

His "work" with NK has produced zip. Kim ain't ever giving up his nukes or he'll end up in the same hole as Kaddafi and Saddam.

Our alternative to Donald Trump in the last election is partly to blame for Kim rightly feeling this way. She was all too happy to brag about her role in Muammar's death. Here's a new policy idea: open Dictator's Island in the South Pacific. Make it splendid and glorious. All-expenses paid. We offer mansions there to guys like Kim Jong-Un and Nicolas Maduro. Full security. Expensive booze freely flowing. But there's one catch: they can never, ever leave. Offer a spot there to dictators we don't like and their families in exchange for ending their horrible regimes.

I think a place like that would be a nice investment. Hell, maybe Trump would accept a spot.

[scoscox]

His "work" with NK has produced zip. Kim ain't ever giving up his nukes or he'll end up in the same hole as Kaddafi and Saddam.

I’m not saying it’s produced any tangible results just that it’s unprecedented. Crossing the dmz, South Korea crossing the dmz, summits with Kim, etc. obviously it hasn’t really done a lot, but I don’t think it has done anything to exacerbate the problem either, which is good

[noteggs]

I'm entertained by the 'outsider fallacy' that so intoxicates people. I'd actually rather return to the days where most of our Presidents had prior executive experience as Governors. Running the United States of America is a complicated job. I think it helps to have some relevant experience. Often as a Governor you get that experience, and you learn how compromise works and how to get things done, even when parties disagree. I think that was part of the problem with Obama, and definitely a major issue with Trump. Outside of Trump's glaring personality flaws he did not seem to have any appreciation for the magnitude of the Presidency which has led to a chaotic administration almost from day 1. Basic staffing and information flow were major issues for this administration which we really haven't seen before. I attribute that to a lack of preparedness and a lack of relevant experience.

In my opinion the hyper-partisan state we find ourselves in is more related to things not getting done than career politicians - they are just a symptom of the larger problem which is (IMO) far too much money in (and around) politics. Shut off the money and influence pipeline and it would go a long way.

Well we obviously agree on one big problem, too much money in and around politics. Where we disagree is some of us were sick of electing the same bureaucrats who’s given us this shit hole in DC. Don’t you think business leaders know how to compromise and know how to get things done? Heck I’ve held this position for a long time and even voted for Perot (yes I know). I’m so glad are founding fathers were a diverse group occupationally vs just politicians. Also the same founders didn’t want politics to be a profession because they feared it would lead to...well what we have today.

Even though partisan politics is high now, honestly you can say the same thing for centuries. Just ask Mrs. Hamilton in 1804.

I get your point administratively, but my expectations were already baked in. What I didn’t expect (even though you blasted me for this in the past) is the lengths the establishment (not just politicians) were willing to go to keep the status quo. When you start your presidency with the FBI director comes to you on day 1 and tells you about an unverified dossier (that was financed by the establishment - Democrats when Steele got involved) and never mentions people on his campaign were being investigated for nearly a year. Obviously we know where this led and in good time, hopefully we’ll find out if the origins were warranted or not.

[scoscox]

I'm really alarmed at the amount of foreign money in Washington DC. It's obvious that tons of congressmen and women in both parties are completely bought and paid for and hopelessly corrupt accepting all this money. The fact that it's so accepted is extremely disturbing

along the same lines, foreign money at american universities is almost equally disturbing (looking at you georgetown)(hopefully not looking at xavier, but i haven't looked into very much)

[bjf123]

The problem is that the “insiders”/establishment has been totally unresponsive to the problems that the public has been struggling with and their outsider vote is the outcome of that. If the establishment won’t be responsive or effective, the people are gonna vote for outsiders to blow it up until they figure it out or are removed. That’s clearly the pattern

Of course the level to which political discourse has devolved probably has something to do with it as well although that’s probably more of a symptom

This. It’s what gave us Trump and the UK Brexit. The elected elite are too far out of touch with the majority of their citizens and don’t really care. Oh sure, they give it lip service, but they’re more concerned with getting re-elected and staying in power than actually doing anything.


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[Lloyd Braun]

This. It’s what gave us Trump and the UK Brexit. The elected elite are too far out of touch with the majority of their citizens and don’t really care. Oh sure, they give it lip service, but they’re more concerned with getting re-elected and staying in power than actually doing anything.


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Trump is not any different and in fact might be more obsessed with the position more than the duty than anyone. Yet somehow he is here to drain the swamp!?

Edit: I don’t disagree with your statement it is what gave us Trump. But for people to consistently believe that he cares about them is laughable. At least with the last few presidents there is a feeling that regardless of policy, they were decent humans. Not so for Trump, unfortunately.

[boozehound]

This. It’s what gave us Trump and the UK Brexit. The elected elite are too far out of touch with the majority of their citizens and don’t really care. Oh sure, they give it lip service, but they’re more concerned with getting re-elected and staying in power than actually doing anything.


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Don't those seem like two pretty bad decisions, objectively? I'm not sure the working class will be any better off by voting for Trump and Brexit. Unless Trump's protectionism works (which historically it hasn't) then I'm not sure he has done anything more for the common citizen than most any other recent President.

I also find the idea of voting for Trump because you think the 'elected elite are out of touch' to be difficult to reconcile with pretty much everything we have known of Trump throughout his (relatively public) adult life. When viewed through that lens it kind of just makes the average American look stupid and easily manipulated. I'm not sure there are many people who care less about the average citizen than Donald Trump.

Honestly when viewed through the lens of history I think this a looks much, much, more like a descent toward totalitarianism than the common citizen using their votes to speak out against an out of touch ruling class. We basically just elected their poster child President and then have spent the last 3 years rationalizing all the crazy shit he has done and said.

[scoscox]

You may think that, but trump supporters absolutely do not. His approval with republicans is through the roof. People see him trying to get control of the border, trying to keep us out of conflicts, trying to grow manufacturing, taking on China, standing up to the Democrats, and the investigations with Barr and Durham into the Russian stuff will only help him when it comes to fruition

Edit - this was in response to Lloyd not booze

[boozehound]

Well we obviously agree on one big problem, too much money in and around politics. Where we disagree is some of us were sick of electing the same bureaucrats who’s given us this shit hole in DC. Don’t you think business leaders know how to compromise and know how to get things done? Heck I’ve held this position for a long time and even voted for Perot (yes I know). I’m so glad are founding fathers were a diverse group occupationally vs just politicians. Also the same founders didn’t want politics to be a profession because they feared it would lead to...well what we have today.

Even though partisan politics is high now, honestly you can say the same thing for centuries. Just ask Mrs. Hamilton in 1804.

I get your point administratively, but my expectations were already baked in. What I didn’t expect (even though you blasted me for this in the past) is the lengths the establishment (not just politicians) were willing to go to keep the status quo. When you start your presidency with the FBI director comes to you on day 1 and tells you about an unverified dossier (that was financed by the establishment - Democrats when Steele got involved) and never mentions people on his campaign were being investigated for nearly a year. Obviously we know where this led and in good time, hopefully we’ll find out if the origins were warranted or not.

You can see my most recent reply (before this one, obviously) on Trump for how I feel about the notion of him being some sort of better alternative to the same bureaucrats. As far as business leaders knowing how to compromise: sometimes. Trump is probably about as poorly equipped as one can possibly be in that area though. He didn't run General Electric and have to deal with a board of directors and shareholders. He ran a private company that he basically treated like a kingdom, and then was a freaking reality TV star.

I do like the idea of retired business leaders as politicians, but I'd rather see it happen (or at least start) in Congress. The country is exponentially more complicated now than it was in the days of the founding fathers which (I think) takes more expertise to run. It's pretty likely that an outsider President who didn't have a crippling personality disorder would do a much better job than Trump so maybe that is where I'm getting hung up.

I was not old enough to vote for Perot, but I was old enough to be politically aware and I was a fan of his. I have also (generally) been a fan of the libertarian candidates, although I have typically considered them too flawed to actually be a good president. I'd take them over Trump any day though.

[Juice]

The problem is that the “insiders”/establishment has been totally unresponsive to the problems that the public has been struggling with and their outsider vote is the outcome of that. If the establishment won’t be responsive or effective, the people are gonna vote for outsiders to blow it up until they figure it out or are removed. That’s clearly the pattern

Of course the level to which political discourse has devolved probably has something to do with it as well although that’s probably more of a symptom

Yeah I don't see the appeal on an insider. Biden was in the senate for thirty something years and can point to what to run on now? He's actually moved away from a lot of what he used to advocate for. Electing or looking at "insiders" like Biden just shows how useless most politicians are.

[Lloyd Braun]

You may think that, but trump supporters absolutely do not. His approval with republicans is through the roof. People see him trying to get control of the border, trying to keep us out of conflicts, trying to grow manufacturing, taking on China, standing up to the Democrats, and the investigations with Barr and Durham into the Russian stuff will only help him when it comes to fruition

Edit - this was in response to Lloyd not booze

Nobody wants to admit they were duped. Egg on ones face is unpleasant.

There are some “battles” that are problematic however that you state...

“trying to keep us out of conflicts” - Ah yes, Trump the Peacemaker! Who believes this?

“standing up to the Democrats” - Yes those Democrat bullies are really a threat to freedoms. Do Democrats view Republicans as bullies that need to be stood up to? I doubt it. I feel if the entire country were polled the “work together” category would win.

[scoscox]

Nobody wants to admit they were duped. Egg on ones face is unpleasant.

There are some “battles” that are problematic however that you state...

“trying to keep us out of conflicts” - Ah yes, Trump the Peacemaker! Who believes this?

“standing up to the Democrats” - Yes those Democrat bullies are really a threat to freedoms. Do Democrats view Republicans as bullies that need to be stood up to? I doubt it. I feel if the entire country were polled the “work together” category would win.

You’re outrageously out of touch if you think this stuff.

Trust me no one thinks they’re duped or regrets their vote.

Yes, trump has largely avoided escalating any conflicts in the Middle East, North Korea, Russia, etc. He’s tried to recall troops from Afghanistan and Syria against the wishes of most of Washington and has spoken out against the military industrial complex. His bombast towards North Korea and Iran have been largely bluster. He has made some dumb appointments around him ie John Bolton but resisted his push to go to war with Iran and fired him. He’s done well on that front.

And yes democrats are a clear threat to freedoms. Beto has been running around talking about banning all guns, all of them support at least some form of gun control, many seem to have no problem with open borders. There’s been talk of packing the Supreme Court, etc. And more to the point, dems are obviously bullies. They control almost all major media, all the largest cities, almost all of Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street, and the richest areas of the country and use that influence and power to constantly belittle and mock rural/heartland America in every imaginable way. The fact that you’re this un self aware about all this is alarming. The bubbles are strong

[scoscox]

Don't those seem like two pretty bad decisions, objectively? I'm not sure the working class will be any better off by voting for Trump and Brexit. Unless Trump's protectionism works (which historically it hasn't) then I'm not sure he has done anything more for the common citizen than most any other recent President.

I also find the idea of voting for Trump because you think the 'elected elite are out of touch' to be difficult to reconcile with pretty much everything we have known of Trump throughout his (relatively public) adult life. When viewed through that lens it kind of just makes the average American look stupid and easily manipulated. I'm not sure there are many people who care less about the average citizen than Donald Trump.

Honestly when viewed through the lens of history I think this a looks much, much, more like a descent toward totalitarianism than the common citizen using their votes to speak out against an out of touch ruling class. We basically just elected their poster child President and then have spent the last 3 years rationalizing all the crazy shit he has done and said.


Trump is among the elite no doubt, but basically every other member of the liberal ruling class absolutely abhors him and that is good enough for people to love him.

[Lloyd Braun]

You are stuck in partisan politics and it is quite sad.... you are not alone unfortunately. It’s really why this thread has gone in circles for how long?

[scoscox]

You are stuck in partisan politics and it is quite sad.... you are not alone unfortunately. It’s really why this thread has gone in circles for how long?

I have plenty of criticisms of Republicans trust me. You asked me if “people really believe this stuff” obviously considering yourself aloof from the current polarization. I’m merely letting you know that the polarization exists and people have those grievances. People continuing to ignore these grievances is why we are where we are

I mean seriously why do you think people like Bernie Sanders and Donald trump are popular? People have strong resentment for the current establishment

[Lloyd Braun]

I don’t recall taking sides or rationalizing any actions of Democrats. Mostly here to bash Trump haha! I can hate on democrats too... it’s actually the opposite of your criticism. I don’t find them bullies, I find them mostly spineless and not willing to stand on solid ground... simply making statements to appease a crowd. Similar to Trump actually in that regard.

[Caf]

Yeah I don't see the appeal on an insider. Biden was in the senate for thirty something years and can point to what to run on now? He's actually moved away from a lot of what he used to advocate for. Electing or looking at "insiders" like Biden just shows how useless most politicians are.

I agree with this for Senators, but not governors. Senators just want to fight, and in the Presidency they fight with people they've been fighting for years.

Heck even Mayor Pete seems to have more relevant experience for the Presidency than every Senator he's running against.

[Lloyd Braun]

Is it ok that he asks Chiina to investigate Biden too? What happens when China calls to ask if he was serious? Can’t we wait until the primaries are over until we ask corrupt foreign governments to investigate our candidates? This is normal, right?

[bobbiemcgee]

Surprised he just didn't ask for Biden dirt from all the UN members last week. Would have saved time.

[paulxu]

Although the president said that he talked to the Ukrainian president about Biden...40% of Republicans say that he didn't.

No wonder we're all confused.

[chico]

Although the president said that he talked to the Ukrainian president about Biden...40% of Republicans say that he didn't.

No wonder we're all confused.

Oh, so now you're going to believe Trump.

[xubrew]

I foresee the following as a very likely scenario...

Trump gets impeached.

Trump is not removed from office.

Trump will then proclaim that the Democrats tried to impeach him, but failed.

He and many of his supporters will not, nor will ever, understand the difference between being impeached and being removed.

And...the shitshow will continue!!

I don't even know what I think the proper course of action is. I actually kinda gave up a while ago and am just trying to not get too bothered by things that don't impact my day to day life. But, I do think that there is a better chance of Donald Trump JR winning the 2024 election than of Trump SR actually being removed from office.

[GoMuskies]

'brew, stop being ridiculous talking about Don Trump, Jr. winning the 2024 election. There is ZERO chance of that. None, zip, nada, zilch. There is NO WAY he can beat Ivanka in the Trump Party (f/k/a the Republican Party) primary.

[xubrew]

'brew, stop being ridiculous talking about Don Trump, Jr. winning the 2024 election. There is ZERO chance of that. None, zip, nada, zilch. There is NO WAY he can beat Ivanka in the Trump Party (f/k/a the Republican Party) primary.

I concede your point.

[noteggs]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

Well if she doesn’t win, the Church of Sweden tweeted out last year, "Announcement! Jesus of Nazareth has now appointed one of his successors, Greta Thunberg.” So she’ll have that to fall back on.

[paulxu]

Oh, so now you're going to believe Trump.

Hah! I'm just having trouble with my R friends in knowing what they think.

[Muskie in dayton]

Hah! I'm just having trouble with my R friends in knowing what they think.

R friends don’t think. Neither do D friends. I don’t have any friends.

[GoMuskies]

With this deal to allow Turkey to go into Syria and crush the Kurds, Donald Trump seems to have managed to do the impossible....he has now alienated LITERALLY FUCKING EVERYONE.

[fellahmuskie]

Do people on here think there is a legitimate chance Trump gets removed from office before the election? It's impossible for me to tell from the media because both sides are so slanted.

[bobbiemcgee]

With this deal to allow Turkey to go into Syria and crush the Kurds, Donald Trump seems to have managed to do the impossible....he has now alienated LITERALLY FUCKING EVERYONE.

2348

Trunp sez he has great and unmatched wisdom

[paulxu]

As the senior Senator from my great state of South Carolina once tweeted:


If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it.

[Muskie in dayton]

As the senior Senator from my great state of South Carolina once tweeted:

Now THAT is great and unmatched wisdom.

[GoMuskies]

Do people on here think there is a legitimate chance Trump gets removed from office before the election? It's impossible for me to tell from the media because both sides are so slanted.

Nothing would surprise me at this point. Including Trump being impeached and removed and then winning the 2020 election anyway.

[fellahmuskie]

Nothing would surprise me at this point. Including Trump being impeached and removed and then winning the 2020 election anyway.

Now that is something I hadn't considered.

[scoscox]

Pretty sure you can’t hold office after you’ve been impeached

[GoMuskies]

Pretty sure you can’t hold office after you’ve been impeached

Bill Clinton obviously disagrees with this assessment. I know you meant "and removed", but we've got to get back into these distinctions it seems. And what you say may be true, but since it's never happened, I'm not sure.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Bill Clinton obviously disagrees with this assessment. I know you meant "and removed", but we've got to get back into these distinctions it seems. And what you say may be true, but since it's never happened, I'm not sure.

I'm thinking once Trump is out of office, his next address is going to be from a federal prison.

[paulxu]

I don't know about that, but I can see if enough pressure occurs that he would resign and be pardoned by Pence.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I don't know about that, but I can see if enough pressure occurs that he would resign and be pardoned by Pence.

I don't know that Pence actually likes him. His wife sure doesn't.

Seems like the odds are on Trump cutting a deal to resign and avoid prosecution. But would that protect him from the shady shit he's done prior to becoming Commander-in-Chief?

[noteggs]

Clinton was acquitted in the Senate so therefore was allowed to stay in office. If Trump is impeached by the House, I would assume the Senate would do the same. The turtle has already alluded to this. As strange as it may seem, if the Senate decides to remove him from office, Trump could still run for the 2020 presidency.

Also in terms of a pardon, in Article II Section 2, specifically prohibits the president’s pardon power from reversing impeachment convictions. So, if Pence becomes the president, he could not pardon Trump.

[STL_XUfan]

Also in terms of a pardon, in Article II Section 2, specifically prohibits the president’s pardon power from reversing impeachment convictions. So, if Pence becomes the president, he could not pardon Trump.

But he could still pardon him from obstruction of justice or other charges that can only be brought once he is out of the White House, right?

[noteggs]

But he could still pardon him from obstruction of justice or other charges that can only be brought once he is out of the White House, right?

First of all I’m just a history geek, especially around the founding and not a lawyer.

However, from my interpretation, a sitting president could not pardon Trump for his impeachable crimes that he committed in office. Article II section 2 states, “...he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”

After removal from office, the Constitution says, “… the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law.”

I definitely think a pardon would be tested if it goes that far. Of course this has never happened because you’ve only had two presidents (Johnson and Clinton) impeached but were acquitted, so no pardon was necessary. Obviously we know Nixon was pardoned by Ford but he was able to because Nixon resigned before he got impeached.

Honestly, I don’t see it getting that far and only 1 of the 3 things will happen:

No impeachment, resigns and gets pardon by Pence (or by whom
assumes the role), or the Senate acquits.

[noteggs]

But he could still pardon him from obstruction of justice or other charges that can only be brought once he is out of the White House, right?

After reading your message again, if you meant he doesn’t get impeached and finishes his term(s), would he receive a pardon if convicted of obstruction? I would say yes just like Nixon.

[Mrs. Garrett]

After reading your message again, if you meant he doesn’t get impeached and finishes his term(s), would he receive a pardon if convicted of obstruction? I would say yes just like Nixon.

I would think a pardon would depend on the party affiliation of the next president.

[noteggs]

I would think a pardon would depend on the party affiliation of the next president.

Oh without a doubt! Political suicide if a democrat did it. If he resigns, it would probably be Pence. After that it’ll be the next Republican President.

[paulxu]

You've built a nice case for why he should resign before being impeached, and get pardoned by Pence for crimes committed while in office.

If Pence were to extend that pardon to other crimes being pursued prior to his taking office, that might cause some problems for the party.

[bjf123]

You've built a nice case for why he should resign before being impeached, and get pardoned by Pence for crimes committed while in office.

If Pence were to extend that pardon to other crimes being pursued prior to his taking office, that might cause some problems for the party.

I think the President an only issue pardons for people convicted of federal crimes. If someone is convicted in a State court, a Presidential pardon is not relevant.


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[scoscox]

Bill Clinton obviously disagrees with this assessment. I know you meant "and removed", but we've got to get back into these distinctions it seems. And what you say may be true, but since it's never happened, I'm not sure.

Correct. I was making some assumptions there that I shouldn’t have.

[GoMuskies]

How can incredibly smart people be so stupid? First, Elizabeth Warren has her well-documented courtship with being Native American (and it turns out she's about the least Native American person in America). Now, she lies about getting fired from a job in 1971 for being pregnant. For no reason! All she had to say is that she knew women who were fired back then for being pregnant, and virtually no one would have objected. But for some reason it had to be a first person narrative. Just a ridiculous thing to do and that really has no upside. Just as she was passing Biden in the polls (and with one of her main rivals fresh off a heart attack).

[paulxu]

Not everybody can be a "very stable genius."

[GoMuskies]

Not everybody can be a "very stable genius."

Good point. I guess I have to rethink all the praise I've heaped on Trump over the years in this thread.

[GoMuskies]

Hmm. Yeah I think to avoid confusion maybe it should be "leave office." I'm willing to put $20 on it and loser donates to site. Come on everyone wins, even this deranged place of lunacy we call Xavier Hoops. Either that or I'm suffering withdrawals until the Preakness.


I'm in for $20. Wouldn't be surprised to lose that one for any number of reasons, but I don't think it will be Russia. Most likely loss for me (IMO): he just gets tired of it and claims some sort of health issue and resigns. Or he randomly grabs a stranger by the pussy. Equally likely.

Reminder given that this bet looks like it may come down to the wire!

[scoscox]

How can incredibly smart people be so stupid? First, Elizabeth Warren has her well-documented courtship with being Native American (and it turns out she's about the least Native American person in America). Now, she lies about getting fired from a job in 1971 for being pregnant. For no reason! All she had to say is that she knew women who were fired back then for being pregnant, and virtually no one would have objected. But for some reason it had to be a first person narrative. Just a ridiculous thing to do and that really has no upside. Just as she was passing Biden in the polls (and with one of her main rivals fresh off a heart attack).

Warren is a psycho

[bleedXblue]

Reminder given that this bet looks like it may come down to the wire!

I'm in. No way Trump leaves office or resigns based on anything that I have seen to this point.

[bobbiemcgee]

The Kurds, facing extinction, are trying to dig up some dirt on Biden.

[Mrs. Garrett]

How can incredibly smart people be so stupid? First, Elizabeth Warren has her well-documented courtship with being Native American (and it turns out she's about the least Native American person in America). Now, she lies about getting fired from a job in 1971 for being pregnant. For no reason! All she had to say is that she knew women who were fired back then for being pregnant, and virtually no one would have objected. But for some reason it had to be a first person narrative. Just a ridiculous thing to do and that really has no upside. Just as she was passing Biden in the polls (and with one of her main rivals fresh off a heart attack).

Yeah, the 2016 election proved honesty is extremely important to the American people.

[nuts4xu]

There is a vote for Trump's impeachment scheduled for November 2020. The people of this republic will have their chance to keep or remove our great president at that time. The democrats have plenty of time to plan their strategy, and should focus on plausible ways to improve our country, its policies, and procedures to ensure the best future for our people.

Stop persecuting Donald Trump. Let the man do his job, everything will be just fine.

[Caf]

A Presidency is a lifetime.

[paulxu]

Today's lesson in politics boys and girls:

Don't have lunch with Rudy, and then buy a one way overseas ticket.

[bobbiemcgee]

There is a vote for Trump's impeachment scheduled for November 2020. The people of this republic will have their chance to keep or remove our great president at that time. The democrats have plenty of time to plan their strategy, and should focus on plausible ways to improve our country, its policies, and procedures to ensure the best future for our people.

Stop persecuting Donald Trump. Let the man do his job, everything will be just fine.

Nov. 2020? I like this idea. Impeach him right after the election. Shades of Garland/Mc Connell.

[Juice]

The Washington Post
@washingtonpost
Why didn’t Greta Thunberg win the Nobel Peace Prize?

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1182608516919562240

[GoMuskies]

I'll go with....she didn't do anything to create a more peaceful world?

[bobbiemcgee]

Looks like Trump TV got rid of their only fact checker after 23 yrs. Barr visiting with Murdoch probably had nothing to do with it.

[Strange Brew]

Just so long as you also credit Trump when the market corrects.

It’s extremely humorous and somewhat sad to see how poorly these posts age.

[Snipe]

All political postings shall go here until further notice. When the aftermath cools down, perhaps we will go back to the old way.

Has the aftermath cooled down yet?

[bjf123]

Has the aftermath cooled down yet?

I’ll take Not a Chance for $500, Alex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump sez he will build a beautiful wall in Colorado.
New Mexico will pay for it.

[vee4xu]

Has the aftermath cooled down yet?

We've both been hanging around these XU boards long enough to know, so long as there are posters, nothing will ever cool politically. Not past, not present and not future. But, at this point, who cares because we both know that politics is silly to debate. Everyone wants to win the debate, or agitate with sarcastic ball busting, rather than simply discuss issues and topics with respect and an open mind. Until discussions get to a point where people respectfully discuss political topics, it'll be a tribal free for all. All that's fine and good, but I decided long ago that I have no energy, or desire for that and to bow out of any political back and forth here.

[xubrew]

Please understand that this is a QUESTION and not an insinuation or argument.

What is stopping the House from holding anyone who ignores a subpoena in contempt of congress?? It's my understanding that it's a month in jail and a hefty fine.

It seems to me if you ask/direct someone to do it, and their response is "MAKE ME!" then you have to either accept the fact that they won't do what you're asking, or you have to make them. The congress seems to be opting for the former.

I don't have that option in the world I live in. I also don't think that makes me all that unique. I have to follow a lot of stupid rules, and I have to do a lot of things that I don't like doing or don't want to do that I think are entirely stupid. But, if I were to just ignore it, I'd be out on my ass and probably never let back in. Maybe I should have gone into politics, where saying "MAKE ME" seems like it's actually an option!

[GoMuskies]

I can't help 'brew with his questions. Sorry, too busy getting the popcorn ready to enjoy the news coverage of the Nats' big trip to the White House. After the Nats fans heartily booed Trump during Game 5, this is a pretty interesting turn of events. Will be fascinating to follow.

[STL_XUfan]

Please understand that this is a QUESTION and not an insinuation or argument.

What is topping the House from holding anyone who ignores a subpoena in contempt of congress?? It's my understanding that it's a month in jail and a hefty fine.

It seems to me if you ask/direct someone to do it, and their response is "MAKE ME!" then you have to either accept the fact that they won't do what you're asking, or you have to make them. The congress seems to be opting for the former.

I don't have that option in the world I live in. I also don't think that makes me all that unique. I have to follow a lot of stupid rules, and I have to do a lot of things that I don't like doing or don't want to do that I think are entirely stupid. But, if I were to just ignore it, I'd be out on my ass and probably never let back in. Maybe I should have gone into politics, where saying "MAKE ME" seems like it's actually an option!

So there is a more complicated answer involving the separation of powers and congress' authority against the executive branch and whether the judicial branch would step in to assist the legislative branch against the executive branch, or simply deem it a political question and refuse to get involved.

However, the reason it will not be tested is optics. If you go and arrest the White House lawyer the evening news is going to lead with his perp walk out of the White House. So instead of the story being about the substance of the testimony it will shift to the process the Democrats are using. If you think the right is calling these "Soviet Style" hearings now, just imagine when they have video to play of officials being arrested for not cooperating in the "witch hunt."

This is the same reason the Republicans that stormed the SCIF were hoping to be arrested. They want video of them being hauled away in handcuffs to further their witch hunt argument.

[GoMuskies]

It's sort of like Jane Fonda spending her spare time getting kinky with the DC cops every Friday.

[xubrew]

So there is a more complicated answer involving the separation of powers and congress' authority against the executive branch and whether the judicial branch would step in to assist the legislative branch against the executive branch, or simply deem it a political question and refuse to get involved.

However, the reason it will not be tested is optics. If you go and arrest the White House lawyer the evening news is going to lead with his perp walk out of the White House. So instead of the story being about the substance of the testimony it will shift to the process the Democrats are using. If you think the right is calling these "Soviet Style" hearings now, just imagine when they have video to play of officials being arrested for not cooperating in the "witch hunt."

This is the same reason the Republicans that stormed the SCIF were hoping to be arrested. They want video of them being hauled away in handcuffs to further their witch hunt argument.

Thank you!! Makes sense.

[X-band '01]

I can't help 'brew with his questions. Sorry, too busy getting the popcorn ready to enjoy the news coverage of the Nats' big trip to the White House. After the Nats fans heartily booed Trump during Game 5, this is a pretty interesting turn of events. Will be fascinating to follow.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess you just became a big Kurt Suzuki fan.

[GoMuskies]

I am going to go out on a limb and guess you just became a big Kurt Suzuki fan.

Not sure I'd go so far as to call myself a fan, but I certainly appreciate the fact that he's making people's heads explode. The best we can do is find comedy/entertainment at this point.

[xubrew]

I think we are much better off as a nation when politics are boring. Unfortunately, politics are anything but boring right now.

[GoMuskies]

Boring politics are definitely best politics.

[Lamont Sanford]

Props to the Nats for agreeing to go to the White House after their World Series win. So sick of all the other sports teams that are clearly too woke to respect the tradition of accepting the WH invitation after winning titles.

As HuggyBear would say..."fuck 'em."

[xubrew]

I went to vote this morning. Trump wasn't even on the ballot!!! THE FAKE NEWS LIBERAL COMMIES HAVE HIJACKED THE ELECTION!!!!

[X-man]

Sondland and Lev. What will happen next?

[GoMuskies]

Sondland and Lev. What will happen next?

The same things that were always going to happen. The House will vote to impeach. The Senate will vote to not remove. We will have a presidential election in about a year.

[X-man]

The same things that were always going to happen. The House will vote to impeach. The Senate will vote to not remove. We will have a presidential election in about a year.

I am just curious how the Senate Republicans' rationale evolves with the latest twist. Gotta be on top of the new developments to come up with a new rationale to justify what is increasingly clear a lack of concern about a President lying, using tax dollars to advance personal interest at the expense of government policy, and orchestrating a wide-spread cover-up of the whole thing.

[GoMuskies]

Just not juicy enough to remove. There's really no reason for Republican senators to say anything at this point. I'm sure they'll say something stupid, though.

[xubrew]

There is a chance that Trump will be the first president to ever die in prison.

There is a far better chance that he isn't removed, and that he wins reelection.

Trump may suck as a president, and he may lie more than any other five presidents put together, and he may act as if he is above the country's institutions, but the Democrats suck at elections. They can't figure out why so many people in this country who have been made to feel like they don't matter don't like them. At least Trump was smart enough to figure that part of it out. He may not be good at much else, but he was good at that, and because of that he will probably win again.

[bobbiemcgee]

Sondland and Lev. What will happen next?

Taylor and Vindman.

[chico]

I don't get why someone who opposes Trump would turn down an invitation to go to the White House. You'd be able to tell him off, or get clever and bring a "feel the Bern" sign or some such thing. It's a perfect opportunity for a really futile and stupid gesture on someone's part, and a pro sports team are just the guys to do it.

[Caf]

Anchor caught on tape claiming ABC News suppressed Epstein story - Axios (https://www.axios.com/abc-news-jeffrey-epstein-amy-robach-project-veritas-461095ff-bbef-4c55-b7ec-5e90bb39fb83.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic)

Bruh

[X-man]

Just not juicy enough to remove. There's really no reason for Republican senators to say anything at this point. I'm sure they'll say something stupid, though.

What do you think it would take to be "juicy enough"?

[GoMuskies]

What do you think it would take to be "juicy enough"?

Something that people actually care about. No one cares whether we give aid to Ukraine or whether Joe Biden's kid is a low level crook.

[X-man]

Something that people actually care about. No one cares whether we give aid to Ukraine or whether Joe Biden's kid is a low level crook.

So of lying, extorting, misuse of tax dollars, and covering up are not things people care about, please give an example of what Trump would have to do for you to care.

[GoMuskies]

This isn't about me. Look around. Impeachment is barely making a ripple. The Senate isn't going to remove, and the only people who are going to care are people who wanted Trump out day one no matter what. There's an election next year to really decide whether to remove.

[paulxu]

You make a good, albeit depressing point, GO.
Our discourse has sunk to new lows, and unfortunately that seems to largely be traceable to the president's rhetoric.
We've become inured to being shocked by what otherwise would be unacceptable behavior.
This will not end well.

[xubrew]

So of lying, extorting, misuse of tax dollars, and covering up are not things people care about, please give an example of what Trump would have to do for you to care.

They SHOULD care, but they DON'T.

Trump was right about one thing. His base was so fed up with the left that he could shoot someone in broad daylight and the base would still back him. So no, they do not care about any of that. Truth be told I'm having a hard time coming up with something that he could legitimately do that would cause his backers to stop backing him. Impeachment MIGHT actually work to his advantage in the long run. He won't be removed, and if he can get out there and grand stand the way he always does, and use that grandstanding to fire up his supporters the way he always does, then it may actually end up feeding the beast and making it stronger.

[GoMuskies]

Trump was right about one thing. His base was so fed up with the left that he could shoot someone in broad daylight and the base would still back him.

And the Senators who will decide his fate largely represent people from the states that make up that base. At this point it would be political suicide for them to vote to remove. Commentators from California, NY and DC (and XavierHoops) can blast those senators all they want, but the people who will vote for or against those Senators are the ones they are going to side with when it comes time to vote on removal.

[Xville]

They SHOULD care, but they DON'T.

Trump was right about one thing. His base was so fed up with the left that he could shoot someone in broad daylight and the base would still back him. So no, they do not care about any of that. Truth be told I'm having a hard time coming up with something that he could legitimately do that would cause his backers to stop backing him. Impeachment MIGHT actually work to his advantage in the long run. He won't be removed, and if he can get out there and grand stand the way he always does, and use that grandstanding to fire up his supporters the way he always does, then it may actually end up feeding the beast and making it stronger.

If the democratic party have any sense at all, they will nominate a moderate and stop with the medicare for all etc. A moderate that is not a disgusting human being (hard to find in politics) can beat trump. I voted for trump in the last election, but if the democrats nominate someone outside of the pocahontas Warren or bern medicare for all camp, I'll probably vote d this time around.

[GoMuskies]

Andrew Yang would murder Trump (like the Clintons murdered Epstein) in a general. His ideas aren't exactly moderate, but he's a decent human being who treats all sides of the political spectrum with respect and is also willing to admit that he is a capitalist. He's got ACTUAL, workable, politically palatable solutions for the problems that gave rise to the Trump base in the first place.

[xubrew]

If the democratic party have any sense at all,

I'm sorry. I stopped reading after the first half of your first sentence.

[X-man]

This isn't about me. Look around. Impeachment is barely making a ripple. The Senate isn't going to remove, and the only people who are going to care are people who wanted Trump out day one no matter what. There's an election next year to really decide whether to remove.

What about you, though? Is there anything Trump could do that would cause you to support impeachment and removal?

[GoMuskies]

What about you, though? Is there anything Trump could do that would cause you to support impeachment and removal?

Sure, but I'm not going to get bound up by it at this point, because it's not going to happen for this. I didn't vote for Trump last time, and I won't vote for Trump next time, but I also don't have Trump Derangement Syndrome. We're going to be fine.

[X-man]

Sure, but I'm not going to get bound up by it at this point, because it's not going to happen for this. I didn't vote for Trump last time, and I won't vote for Trump next time, but I also don't have Trump Derangement Syndrome. We're going to be fine.

Just give an example, please. That will help me understand why lying, obstruction, misusing public funds for personal political gain, and co-opting Department Secretaries (that means you Barr, Pompeio, and Perry) into conducting purely partisan activity at the expense of policy and departmental integrity.

[GoMuskies]

It's like the definition of porn, man.

[X-man]

It's like the definition of porn, man.

I guess this means that you can't answer my question.

[GoMuskies]

I guess this means that you can't answer my question.

I just did.

[Xville]

Just give an example, please. That will help me understand why lying, obstruction, misusing public funds for personal political gain, and co-opting Department Secretaries (that means you Barr, Pompeio, and Perry) into conducting purely partisan activity at the expense of policy and departmental integrity.

We would have to remove every single person from political office.

[X-man]

I just did.

How? Saying it's like the definition of porn is NOT an answer. If you are going that route, then you need to provide an example of your "definition of porn" to answer my question.

[X-man]

We would have to remove every single person from political office.

Hardly. Although my 10 years of living in DC makes me sympathetic to what you are saying, what Trump is doing is decidedly NOT the norm. Remember Clinton was impeached for consensual sex with an intern, and then lying about it. That is just the STARTING point for Trump.

[GoMuskies]

I'll know it when I see it. That's the definition of porn. And the answer to your question.

[GoMuskies]

Remember Clinton was impeached for consensual sex with an intern, and then lying about it.

Which was stupid. And he was never in danger of being removed.

[X-man]

I'll know it when I see it. That's the definition of porn. And the answer to your question.

We're done here. You refuse to answer and so by implication, suggest that there is nothing that Trump could do that would warrant impeachment and removal. This, no doubt, is the position of most Senate Republicans as well.....very sad.

[noteggs]

So of lying, extorting, misuse of tax dollars, and covering up are not things people care about, please give an example of what Trump would have to do for you to care.

Definitely think this isn’t right, however both Republicans and Democrats have been doing the same (some worse) for years. To bad we’ll probably never clean out the cesspool in Washington in my lifetime. Like GO said, so many Democrats and never Trumpers have Trump derangement syndrome just like the GOP and tea party had for Obama.

[X-man]

Which was stupid. And he was never in danger of being removed.

It was enough for Congressional Republicans, and Republicans in the Senate.

[GoMuskies]

We're done here. You refuse to answer and so by implication, suggest that there is nothing that Trump could do that would warrant impeachment and removal. This, no doubt, is the position of most Senate Republicans as well.....very sad.

I'm not surprised you feel that way.

[GoMuskies]

It was enough for Congressional Republicans, and Republicans in the Senate.

Have we covered how that was stupid? Shockingly, impeachment and removal is mostly a partisan affair.

[xubrew]

I find a lot of what Donald Trump does, and a lot of what people do to enable him, to be unacceptable.

The problem is that I find the Democratic Party to be both really unlikable and really stupid. The combination of being stupid and unlikable is why we have someone who does unacceptable things in power, and why that person will likely remain in power

I mean, in a nutshell, that's how I'd sum up our current political situation.

Am I alone on that??

[bjf123]

I find a lot of what Donald Trump does, and a lot of what people do to enable him, to be unacceptable.

The problem is that I find the Democratic Party to be both really unlikable and really stupid. The combination of being stupid and unlikable is why we have someone who does unacceptable things in power, and why that person will likely remain in power

I mean, in a nutshell, that's how I'd sum up our current political situation.

Am I alone on that??

Nope! While I did vote for Trump, and will likely vote for him again, I do wish he’d stop with the incessant tweets and name calling. At the same time, he’s been attacked by the Left and the media since he won the election, so I get his reactions.

It would be better if he stuck to talking about his policies without the thin skinned overreaction to every negative comment.


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[Caf]

Nope! While I did vote for Trump, and will likely vote for him again, I do wish he’d stop with the incessant tweets and name calling. At the same time, he’s been attacked by the Left and the media since he won the election, so I get his reactions.

It would be better if he stuck to talking about his policies without the thin skinned overreaction to every negative comment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He wouldn't have gotten elected if he stuck to talking policy and didn't enrage the Left/Media.

[xubrew]

He wouldn't have gotten elected if he stuck to talking policy and didn't enrage the Left/Media.

Probably accurate.

The enraged left and the elite left who basically acted like the people who weren't elite weren't really worth their time, is what got him elected.

And the STUPID left has yet to figure that out!!

[chico]

We're done here. You refuse to answer and so by implication, suggest that there is nothing that Trump could do that would warrant impeachment and removal. This, no doubt, is the position of most Senate Republicans as well.....very sad.

Well isn't that the Pot(ter Stewart) calling the kettle black.

[X-man]

Well isn't that the Pot(ter Stewart) calling the kettle black.

Explain, please.

[bobbiemcgee]

[QUOTE=xubrew;655152]

….. is what got him elected.

The electoral college got him elected which he had previously called a "disaster for democracy".

/QUOTE]

[GoMuskies]

Yes, the electoral college is how we determine who wins our Presidential elections.

[xubrew]

Oh Jesus....

How can seemingly the entire Democratic Party lose an election to DONALD TRUMP, and not even feel compelled to look in the mirror or do any sort of self assessment as to what it is that might be wrong with them??

Not all that long ago, the blue collar working class identified with the Democratic Party. They don't anymore. Trump's rallies are full of people who are part of a demographic that used to be with the Democrats. They're not anymore.

I REALLY wish the Democrats would seriously sit down and think about why that is. Until they do, they won't beat him in the next election, much less have him removed from office.

[GoMuskies]

This is REALLY stupid. It's Alabama, though, so I guess that is redundant.

https://www.al.com/news/2019/11/alabama-sga-warns-groups-protest-trump-during-lsu-game-risk-losing-reserved-seating.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=aldotcom_sf&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

[bobbiemcgee]

Yes, the electoral college is how we determine who wins our Presidential elections.

Not here and 10 other states.

[GoMuskies]

Not here and 10 other states.

How does Colorado elect its President?

[chico]

Explain, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobellis_v._Ohio

[Smails]

Oh Jesus....

How can seemingly the entire Democratic Party lose an election to DONALD TRUMP, and not even feel compelled to look in the mirror or do any sort of self assessment as to what it is that might be wrong with them??


Well, when you dismiss an entire voting block as stupid, unrefined and deplorable and publicly make those feelings known...you might just fire up a base. You are incapable of introspection if you simply dismiss your rivals as dumber than you. "Bold strategy, Cotton"

[X-band '01]

Well, when you dismiss an entire voting block as stupid, unrefined and deplorable and publicly make those feelings known...you might just fire up a base. You are incapable of introspection if you simply dismiss your rivals as dumber than you. "Bold strategy, Cotton"

Which is even more amazing when you consider Mitt Romney made a very similar error back in 2012.

[bjf123]

Oh Jesus....

How can seemingly the entire Democratic Party lose an election to DONALD TRUMP, and not even feel compelled to look in the mirror or do any sort of self assessment as to what it is that might be wrong with them??


Because it’s not their fault. The Russians did it!


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[boozehound]

Definitely think this isn’t right, however both Republicans and Democrats have been doing the same (some worse) for years. To bad we’ll probably never clean out the cesspool in Washington in my lifetime. Like GO said, so many Democrats and never Trumpers have Trump derangement syndrome just like the GOP and tea party had for Obama.

The thing that worries me, is that people at least used try to hide that shit. Open graft and corruption that is tolerated by the people is a significant step in the deterioration of the Presidency in my opinion. Openly corrupt governments rarely lead to functional nations.

It feels like we are basically becoming Italy. We know our leaders are corrupt grifters but we don't care, and they don't even really try to hide it anymore. Also we don't seem to give a flying fuck about the deficit (although we haven't for decades, to be fair).

[X-man]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobellis_v._Ohio

Well that makes sense.....NOT.

[Lamont Sanford]

can we all agree on one thing...it's time to keep America great! The only way to do that is to re-elect the Trumpster and not any one of these Socialists, err Democrats.

When Comrade Sanders, Comrade Biden and Pocahantas are your party's preferred leaders...God help us all.

MAGA.

[xubrew]

Which is even more amazing when you consider Mitt Romney made a very similar error back in 2012.

I grew up in a Democratic family and have pretty much always identified with the Left.

I liked John McCain and said so. I liked Mitt Romney and said so. I didn't vote for them, but I said that I wasn't concerned at all about having either one of them as president. I know that there isn't anything particularly unusual about this, but both those people were painted as such villains that simply saying that you liked them and didn't think they were villains made your own side turn against you.

Well, to all of you on the Left, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MITT ROMNEY NOW??

TRUTH: Had Romney beaten Obama, the nation would currently be much healthier because Trump, who probably actually is as bad as the Democrats falsely made Romney out to be, would have never become president.

[xubrew]

I always kinda liked Deadspin, but there were a couple things that they didn't get quite right. Granted, they were far from the only ones...

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-is-going-to-get-his-ass-kicked-on-tuesday-1788618628?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR1rl1QQtaUDz2h6gCzZ4c34BktNm_Fy919_TG3Zj XCUlRFoNP1JiAqwg_o

[GoMuskies]

I always kinda liked Deadspin, but there were a couple things that they didn't get quite right. Granted, they were far from the only ones...

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-is-going-to-get-his-ass-kicked-on-tuesday-1788618628?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR1rl1QQtaUDz2h6gCzZ4c34BktNm_Fy919_TG3Zj XCUlRFoNP1JiAqwg_o

That's a great article on sports from a sports website.

[Juice]

I always kinda liked Deadspin, but there were a couple things that they didn't get quite right. Granted, they were far from the only ones...

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-is-going-to-get-his-ass-kicked-on-tuesday-1788618628?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR1rl1QQtaUDz2h6gCzZ4c34BktNm_Fy919_TG3Zj XCUlRFoNP1JiAqwg_o

Drew Magary used to be really funny. Trump broke his brain.

[chico]

Well that makes sense.....NOT.

How does that not make sense? You asked Go to answer your question, he did by using the same standard Justice Stewart did in regards to porn in the Jacobellis case. You obviously didn't/still don't get the reference.

Or perhaps you were simply being obtuse and trying to get an answer you wanted instead of the one given, yet you claim it was Go who was obtuse. In any case, Go gave you a perfectly valid response.

[XU 87]

Or perhaps you were simply being obtuse


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA8HT324wro

[X-man]

How does that not make sense? You asked Go to answer your question, he did by using the same standard Justice Stewart did in regards to porn in the Jacobellis case. You obviously didn't/still don't get the reference.

Or perhaps you were simply being obtuse and trying to get an answer you wanted instead of the one given, yet you claim it was Go who was obtuse. In any case, Go gave you a perfectly valid response.
You miss my point. I am aware of the pornography argument, and how it might apply to the impeachment argument. But my earlier question was asking a poster here for HIS ideas on what is impeachable. An answer that says different people have different ideas doesn't answer the question.

[XU 87]

You miss my point. I am aware of the pornography argument, and how it might apply to the impeachment argument. But my earlier question was asking a poster here for HIS ideas on what is impeachable. An answer that says different people have different ideas doesn't answer the question.

Per Justice Stewart- "I can't specifically define what exactly constitutes an impeachable offense is. I know it when I see it."

[xubrew]

This is REALLY stupid. It's Alabama, though, so I guess that is redundant.

https://www.al.com/news/2019/11/alabama-sga-warns-groups-protest-trump-during-lsu-game-risk-losing-reserved-seating.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=aldotcom_sf&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

Yeah, had they not done this, then this probably wouldn't be happening....

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/469410-baby-trump-balloon-heading-to-lsu-alabama-game?fbclid=IwAR2YD1STyBii61h_omF0vsdi4EYRVKVLIdSj n49iHOaGZqSuKZEwnczEXBc

[X-man]

Per Justice Stewart- "I can't specifically define what exactly constitutes an impeachable offense is. I know it when I see it."

So let's throw out some hypotheticals. (1) the President directs that Congressionally authorized funds be held up, against clear policy goals, until a foreign government provides help for the President's re-election effort (where such help is contrary to federal election law). (2) the President lies about it, repeatedly. (3) the President oversees a cover-up of his actions by directing Executive branch employees to lie about it.

How's that for starters?

[chico]

You miss my point. I am aware of the pornography argument, and how it might apply to the impeachment argument. But my earlier question was asking a poster here for HIS ideas on what is impeachable. An answer that says different people have different ideas doesn't answer the question.

And his answer was HE'D know it when HE saw it, i.e. it's like porn. There was no point missed. Go wasn't speaking for anyone else but him when he said he'd know it when he saw it. That's an inference you made.

[X-man]

And his answer was HE'D know it when HE saw it, i.e. it's like porn. There was no point missed. Go wasn't speaking for anyone else but him when he said he'd know it when he saw it. That's an inference you made.

Because GO is the one being asked, he can take a stab at answering the question. Perhaps the "hypothetical" in my last post is something he might answer.

[GoMuskies]

I'm leaning to your hypo being more Playboy than Penthouse.

[bobbiemcgee]

Looks like Bloomberg might jump in the race.

[Strange Brew]

Looks like Bloomberg might jump in the race.

Soda TAX Popinski. This should be fun....

[Masterofreality]

Glad to see that this thread has the same enthusiasm for this Traveshamockery that these Schiffshow "impeachment" hearings are getting from the rest of the country- a big fat MEH!
Despite the best efforts of the main stream media to cram this garbage down our throat, the country, which is performing excellently, could give two sheets.
The Dems, can't figure out a candidate, they have no policies that are popular.The economy is skyrocketing, Black unemployment is historically low, the Black Poverty rate is the lowest in recorded history, we are not at war, and the Demo-rats can't figure out a way to beat Trump without a bloodless coup to overthrow a duly proper election. Schiff looks like a bug eyed dictator in these hearings and cannot produce a bit of first hand evidence. Meanwhile, more and more stuff is coming out about how Creepy Joe and Obama withheld $1 billion in subsidies from Ukraine until Poroshenko made the Ukrainian Prosecutor resign- the very Prosecutor- Viktor Shokin- who was investigating a corrupt foreign gas company- Burisma- that was making significant monthly payments to a company whose ownership included Hunter Biden and Joe Biden while Biden was VP. Oh, and it just so happens that Hunter Biden, dishonorably discharged from the US Military and with little background in the field, was "appointed" to the Burisma Board. Hmmmmm.
How the hell would Hunter Biden be all of a sudden able to be placed on a Board of a Ukranian Gas Company and receive over $80,000/month from said company? I guess the "watchdog" media has no interest in really digging into that story.

About the same level of interest that ABC News had in pursuing the Amy Roback story about Jeffrey Epstein that was crushed. And about the same level of interest that ABC News had about retracting and apologizing for running an abjectly fake video about the intense firefighting going on with the Turks and Kurds. A video that was actually from a display show at a Texas Gun Range. BTW, are the Kurds being "slaughtered" as the media was claiming would happen after the US "pullout" of 800 troops? Uh, a check today produces no stories about any stuff going on since mid October- a month ago. Seems like that died quickly, but how long would it have gone on if Trump wouldn't have pulled those US guys out of the middle of a crossfire? Meanwhile, two major figures of ISIS have been "liquidated" in the last month since the alleged "pullout". I guess the media got it wrong again.
Get ready for a Trump landslide next year. The Dems got nuthin'.

[ChicagoX]

Glad to see that this thread has the same enthusiasm for this Traveshamockery that these Schiffshow "impeachment" hearings are getting from the rest of the country- a big fat MEH!
Despite the best efforts of the main stream media to cram this garbage down our throat, the country, which is performing excellently, could give two sheets.
The Dems, can't figure out a candidate, they have no policies that are popular.The economy is skyrocketing, Black unemployment is historically low, the Black Poverty rate is the lowest in recorded history, we are not at war, and the Demo-rats can't figure out a way to beat Trump without a bloodless coup to overthrow a duly proper election. Schiff looks like a bug eyed dictator in these hearings and cannot produce a bit of first hand evidence. Meanwhile, more and more stuff is coming out about how Creepy Joe and Obama withheld $1 billion in subsidies from Ukraine until Poroshenko made the Ukrainian Prosecutor resign- the very Prosecutor- Viktor Shokin- who was investigating a corrupt foreign gas company- Burisma- that was making significant monthly payments to a company whose ownership included Hunter Biden and Joe Biden while Biden was VP. Oh, and it just so happens that Hunter Biden, dishonorably discharged from the US Military and with little background in the field, was "appointed" to the Burisma Board. Hmmmmm.
How the hell would Hunter Biden be all of a sudden able to be placed on a Board of a Ukranian Gas Company and receive over $80,000/month from said company? I guess the "watchdog" media has no interest in really digging into that story.

About the same level of interest that ABC News had in pursuing the Amy Roback story about Jeffrey Epstein that was crushed. And about the same level of interest that ABC News had about retracting and apologizing for running an abjectly fake video about the intense firefighting going on with the Turks and Kurds. A video that was actually from a display show at a Texas Gun Range. BTW, are the Kurds being "slaughtered" as the media was claiming would happen after the US "pullout" of 800 troops? Uh, a check today produces no stories about any stuff going on since mid October- a month ago. Seems like that died quickly, but how long would it have gone on if Trump wouldn't have pulled those US guys out of the middle of a crossfire? Meanwhile, two major figures of ISIS have been "liquidated" in the last month since the alleged "pullout". I guess the media got it wrong again.
Get ready for a Trump landslide next year. The Dems got nuthin'.

Ok, boomer.

[Masterofreality]

Ok, boomer.

Thanks for seeing things my way.

[bobbiemcgee]

130,000 Kurds who fought the war for us and 13,000 died. Lost their homes and were bombed on their way out. How would that go down in Shaker Heights? No problem I guess. Trump said fuck 'em 'cause they didn't help us in WWII. Really?

[scoscox]

130,000 Kurds who fought the war for us and 13,000 died. Lost their homes and were bombed on their way out. How would that go down in Shaker Heights? No problem I guess. Trump said fuck 'em 'cause they didn't help us in WWII. Really?

i mean, we were fighting with the Kurds, but they would've been fighting without us there anyway

[bobbiemcgee]

i mean, we were fighting with the Kurds, but they would've been fighting without us there anyway

I think they lost 13,000 and we lost 8.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump out jacking up the bus this morning. Too crowded. Needs a lot more space under it.

[xudash]

A reputation is being firmly made:

- - Chicken Schiff

- - Schiff Show

- - Bull Schiff

The boy already looks like a choking Tweety Bird. He almost single handedly is crumbling what is left of the Democratic Party. There is no "there" there in this ridiculous impeachment overthrow attempt, yet they continue to pursue this course. Yesterday could not have gone much worse for them than it did.

Trump is caustic, but he almost needs to be as he takes on the Swamp and the mainstream media. Though he doesn't deliver the polished image that other teleprompter empty suite politicians deliver, he is focused on delivering on his promises. In particular, the U.S. economy is hammering the Far Left's ability to mount a viable response against him.

As importantly, how we handle China from here will dictate how well the United States will fair in the balance of the century. Trump is the ONLY person who has been willing to go down the road we must go down with this unethical, immoral regime.

Enjoy your reading: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/roger-w-robinson-stop-financing-china/?fbclid=IwAR3xbH8U1CJly933NAnyzHli2pCoIADWXPiQt33k e3E2KKq8b3m_TDmOsas

[paulxu]

Dash, think you are correct in the need (which has existed for a while) to address the China situation.

As to Trump, it's pretty clear he did set up the conditions for Ukraine to fulfill if they wanted visit/money.

Whether that's impeachable/convict-able remains to be seen.

[scoscox]

china's influence is disturbing in that it seems like no one is willing to call them out in the slightest. the corruption seems to be pretty deep. i think biden said something like they're not a threat at all and I haven't heard any of the other candidates even mention them. troubling to say the least. dianne feinstein employed a chinese spy for 20 years and it barely made the news at all.

[xudash]

Dash, think you are correct in the need (which has existed for a while) to address the China situation.

As to Trump, it's pretty clear he did set up the conditions for Ukraine to fulfill if they wanted visit/money.

Whether that's impeachable/convict-able remains to be seen.

Paul, As I understand it, especially from Volker’s testimony, the Ukrainians received the package without any “conditions” being met.

What I really don’t understand in all of this is why certain people here are not truly upset about the Bidens’ behavior in all this, partisan politics aside.

[paulxu]

Dash,
My understanding is that the aid to the Ukrainians was only released after the news of the conditions came out.
But, if the Bidens need investigating, and there is possible wrongdoing, no credible evidence has emerged.
What should have happened if there were credible suspicions is that the DOJ has a department for that, which coordinates with foreign governments if necessary. A formal request for assistance in an investigation could have been made.
Instead we got all this about back channel Rudy nonsense.
If they did something wrong, I for one have no problem with holding them accountable.
Same goes for the President.

[xudash]

Dash,
My understanding is that the aid to the Ukrainians was only released after the news of the conditions came out.
But, if the Bidens need investigating, and there is possible wrongdoing, no credible evidence has emerged.
What should have happened if there were credible suspicions is that the DOJ has a department for that, which coordinates with foreign governments if necessary. A formal request for assistance in an investigation could have been made.
Instead we got all this about back channel Rudy nonsense.
If they did something wrong, I for one have no problem with holding them accountable.
Same goes for the President.

Agreed.

Sondland: “Jordan pressing Sondland now, about why he did not include Trump's statement saying "I want nothing" from Ukraine in his opening statement.
Sondland says he did not mean to omit that from his opener.”

If we are at a point of finding ways of removing a President because certain people don’t like or are threatened by him, using inane second hand testimony and opinion and perceptions (i.e. no hard evidence) we’re in trouble.

All these assholes need to govern and accomplish things that benefit the United States.

[scoscox]

Paul, As I understand it, especially from Volker’s testimony, the Ukrainians received the package without any “conditions” being met.

What I really don’t understand in all of this is why certain people here are not truly upset about the Bidens’ behavior in all this, partisan politics aside.

sondland testified that he believed there to be a quid pro quo, but he was never explicitly told and in fact the only communication he did receive was that there was to be no quid pro quo. and sondland himself is the guy who told bill taylor that the president had been clear that there he didn't want quid pro quo. can anyone explain why his testimony was anything other than harmful to the idea that the president was pressuring the ukrainians?

it doesn't help matters that he has changed his story a few times

[bobbiemcgee]

Huh? "Was it a quid pro quo?" Sondland: The answer is YES. "Everyone was in the loop."

[scoscox]

Huh? "Was it a quid pro quo?" Sondland: The answer is YES. "Everyone was in the loop."

Right, he said that's what he presumed. No one actually told him that was the case. In fact, he was explicitly told the opposite. His personal belief about the situation is kind of irrelevant

[bleedXblue]

Right, he said that's what he presumed. No one actually told him that was the case. In fact, he was explicitly told the opposite. His personal belief about the situation is kind of irrelevant

Time to move on for the Libs........they can only hurt themselves more (if that's possible) by continuing down this path. Win the 2020 election if you want Trump out

[Strange Brew]

130,000 Kurds who fought the war for us and 13,000 died. Lost their homes and were bombed on their way out. How would that go down in Shaker Heights? No problem I guess. Trump said fuck 'em 'cause they didn't help us in WWII. Really?

Are you suggesting the US align against a NATO ally.

[bjf123]

Agreed.
Sondland: “Jordan pressing Sondland now, about why he did not include Trump's statement saying "I want nothing" from Ukraine in his opening statement.
Sondland says he did not mean to omit that from his opener.”


Of course he didn’t. Purely an accident. I’m calling BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

Are you suggesting the US align against a NATO ally.

Trump said he wants to pull out of NATO, so why would you care. Righty zealot graham wants to hit them with "veto proof' sanctions.

[xudash]

Trump said he wants to pull out of NATO, so why would you care. Righty zealot graham wants to hit them with "veto proof' sanctions.

He doesn’t want to pull out of NATO. He wants them to carry their own weight.

How can you possibly respond with “huh”. This is a charade.

[Strange Brew]

Trump said he wants to pull out of NATO, so why would you care. Righty zealot graham wants to hit them with "veto proof' sanctions.

No President can pull out of a treaty nor commit the country to one (hi, Paris Accords and the Iran Deal).

Never said anything about Graham so...irrelevant.

So what is your point?

[bobbiemcgee]

He doesn’t want to pull out of NATO. He wants them to carry their own weight.

How can you possibly respond with “huh”. This is a charade.


No President can pull out of a treaty nor commit the country to one (hi, Paris Accords and the Iran Deal).

Never said anything about Graham so...irrelevant.

So what is your point?

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/15/trump-wants-to-pull-u-s-out-of-nato-nyt/

...and I said he wants to pull out of NATO, not that he could do it:

https://www.stripes.com/news/senators-want-legislation-to-block-trump-over-feared-nato-pullout-1.564994

[waggy]

https://youtu.be/rnIPw_Who7E

[scoscox]

NATO is an interesting case and trump asking questions about its utility is a good thing. The Soviet Union, which nato was formed to oppose, has been gone for 30 years. It’s fair to ask why we still need nato.

[paulxu]

Maybe you could ask the Ukrainians...especially those living in Crimea.

[UCGRAD4X]

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/15/trump-wants-to-pull-u-s-out-of-nato-nyt/

...and I said he wants to pull out of NATO, not that he could do it:

https://www.stripes.com/news/senators-want-legislation-to-block-trump-over-feared-nato-pullout-1.564994

"Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization," the paper reported on Monday.

We can ALWAYS trust the ubiquitous unnamed senior administrations official and, for the NYT to get it right.

Trump, during an appearance Thursday at the Pentagon, gave no indication of a looming NATO pullout. “We will be with NATO 100 percent, but as I told countries, you have to step up,” he said.

Don't for a minute think that this is not a negotiation tactic to get NATO partners to "pull their own weight".

Or that he just be way cray, cray.

[Masterofreality]

"Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization," the paper reported on Monday.

We can ALWAYS trust the ubiquitous unnamed senior administrations official and, for the NYT to get it right.

Trump, during an appearance Thursday at the Pentagon, gave no indication of a looming NATO pullout. “We will be with NATO 100 percent, but as I told countries, you have to step up,” he said.

Don't for a minute think that this is not a negotiation tactic to get NATO partners to "pull their own weight".

Or that he just be way cray, cray.

Dude is a negotiator and these are just tactics...having his guys "plant" stuff to get a rise, then he can deny.

It's amazing how he has the slobbering media wrapped around his finger. They print these ridiculous stories, get the resistance all up in arms, then zero happens and the country just keeps on thriving. It is a perfect tactic to show the public how stupid the media is now, and plays right into his fake news narrative. All the while these self important blowhards have no idea that they are getting played, soooooo hard.

[bobbiemcgee]

Dude is a Chronic and Habitual Liar...

Fixed that for 'ya. Honestly, I think everyone can agree on that. He wakes lying. lies all day. No wonder 50& of Americans want the lying SOB gone. 70% said he lied about his "perfecto" call. Scares the crap outta me this idiot has the nuclear codes. Get rid of his ass.

[UCGRAD4X]

Fixed that for 'ya. Honestly, I think everyone can agree on that. He wakes lying. lies all day. No wonder 50& of Americans want the lying SOB gone. 70% said he lied about his "perfecto" call. Scares the crap outta me this idiot has the nuclear codes. Get rid of his ass.

He' just better at it than most other politicians.

How can you tell when a politician is lying?

[Smails]

Scares the crap outta me this idiot has the nuclear codes.

Is this real, does it really keep you up at night? It's not like he has the switch on his nightstand, and what about his foreign policy decisions (actions not rhetoric) lead you to believe that obliterating the world economy and stopping the flow of all commerce is something he would do?

On one hand he's in bed with foreign leaders to advance his personal financial interests, on the other hand he's going to vaporize these countries he's colluding with? T.D.S.

[Caf]

Dude is a negotiator and these are just tactics...having his guys "plant" stuff to get a rise, then he can deny.

It's amazing how he has the slobbering media wrapped around his finger. They print these ridiculous stories, get the resistance all up in arms, then zero happens and the country just keeps on thriving. It is a perfect tactic to show the public how stupid the media is now, and plays right into his fake news narrative. All the while these self important blowhards have no idea that they are getting played, soooooo hard.

I'm not sure how you acknowledge the administration plants or leaks stories then denies them after they are printed, but still somehow blame the media for this. Should they not print these stories?

More realistically I think they leak or plant to test an idea like withdrawal from NATO, see the reaction and then change course depending on it. It's less them "playing" the media and more of them testing their boundaries.

[GoMuskies]

Kamala Harris is out. Smart move since she had no chance. 4 or 5 others need to get out about now as well. Particularly people like Steyer and Patrick who never should have been in it in the first place or came in way too late.

[noteggs]

Kamala Harris is out. Smart move since she had no chance.

The “Russian asset” was successful and got her out the race.

[94GRAD]

He' just better at it than most other politicians.

How can you tell when a politician is lying?

They open their mouths.

[X-band '01]

Kamala Harris is out. Smart move since she had no chance. 4 or 5 others need to get out about now as well. Particularly people like Steyer and Patrick who never should have been in it in the first place or came in way too late.

I must have missed Deval Patrick actually getting in the race, much less getting out of it.

[X Factor]

Real words from Joe Biden at a rally. A graphic artist turned it into a cartoon. Something's wrong with ol' Joe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-A4VrEUyyI

[bobbiemcgee]

covfefe

[GoMuskies]

covfefe

Great horse

[Masterofreality]

I'm not sure how you acknowledge the administration plants or leaks stories then denies them after they are printed, but still somehow blame the media for this. Should they not print these stories?

More realistically I think they leak or plant to test an idea like withdrawal from NATO, see the reaction and then change course depending on it. It's less them "playing" the media and more of them testing their boundaries.

Possible & Fair. But, the idiotic media has no idea that they are getting played (and they are getting played, possibly willingly)...in actuality, by both sides. What I was really getting at, although I clumsily said it, is that the media is slobbering for any sensationalistic morsels, and they'll eagerly lap it up- mostly from the Dems, because they lean that way, but Trump & his people see that they can play the same game.

[Masterofreality]

The “Russian asset” was successful and got her out the race.

It was incredible how Tulsi Gabbard just eviscerated Harris on the debate stage. How telling was it that the mindless lemmings in the #resistance immediately went after Gabbard for speaking truth, rather than piling on Harris? I guess they finally decided that if you can't run your own campaign, how the hell could you run the country?

[GoMuskies]

Buckle up, because here we go.

[noteggs]

I’ve been buckled since inauguration. Just like Pelosi said today “this goes back 2 and half years.”

[GoMuskies]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

No one shot Trump.

[bjf123]

I’ve been buckled since inauguration. Just like Pelosi said today “this goes back 2 and half years.”

They started talking about impeachment before Trump was even inaugurated. When the Senate fails to remove Trump from office as a result of the current articles of impeachment, which is a foregone conclusion, I fully expect the Democrats to look for something else they can use to bring up new articles of impeachment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

He's busy trying to flush that Time magazine, Can't seem to get it to go down after 15 tries. But then he still has the "fake" one he has hanging up at his golf courses.

[GoMuskies]

Labour was routed in the UK. Corbyn is a bad person, so this pleases me.

[Strange Brew]

Labour was routed in the UK. Corbyn is a bad person, so this pleases me.

The Sun may at one time have set on the Empire but it’s now morning in England.

[Masterofreality]

Owning the Libs......HARD in Britian.

Precursor to next November here.

[X-man]

Owning the Libs......HARD in Britian.

Precursor to next November here.

Actually, the Labour and Liberal parties together totaled more votes than Conservatives. Add in the Scottish National party, and the plurality of Remain over Brexit votes is outside the margin of error. BoJo's task may be easier with the increase in Parliamentary majority, but Brexit is still just as unpopular. I think the strength of his "win" is being overstated. Time will tell.

[GoMuskies]

That is definitely....a take.

[Xville]

Libtard tears are delicious

[noteggs]

Two Russians sitting in a bar watching the FISA abuse hearing. One turns to the other, “man, I thought we were the corrupt ones!”

Is it time to shut down the FISA courts or just reform them? According to the Horowitz report, the FBI withheld information, falsified information, and used uncorroborated information to get a warrant to surveilI a US citizen (a CIA asset no less). This is a type of abuse of power on our civil liberties we all (should) agree on.

[paulxu]

Can we also agree that a non-government employee (Rudy) should not be able to ruin the long career of a respected ambassador?

[vee4xu]

Libtard tears are delicious

Now here's a really constructive comment that will help bring the two sides together.

[Xville]

Now here's a really constructive comment that will help bring the two sides together.

There's not been one constructive comment in this entire thread. Why start now?

[UCGRAD4X]

There's not been one constructive comment in this entire thread. Why start now?

this is where the important ideas originate, this is were things get done. We are the force of change.

D's and R's and POTUS all moniter this forum for solutions.

[STL_XUfan]

this is where the important ideas originate, this is were things get done. We are the force of change.

D's and R's and POTUS all moniter this forum for solutions.

I will only believe you if the Senate switches to zone and demands that the result of the impeachment be based on who practices more free throws.

[X-band '01]

I will only believe you if the Senate switches to zone and demands that the result of the impeachment be based on who practices more free throws and then whines about getting neg repped by the public.

Fixed that for you.

[STL_XUfan]

Fixed that for you.

I believe that there is a good chance we could get the President to tweet about this thread if enough of us send it to him. Could really put us on the map.

[UCGRAD4X]

I believe that there is a good chance we could get the President to tweet about this thread if enough of us send it to him. Could really put us on the map.

I hear the whistleblower posts on this board and, in fact, got his information from some since banned troller here.

[SemajParlor]

Pretty quiet night for this thread . Nothing to see here.

[Lamont Sanford]

Two Russians sitting in a bar watching the FISA abuse hearing. One turns to the other, “man, I thought we were the corrupt ones!”

Is it time to shut down the FISA courts or just reform them? According to the Horowitz report, the FBI withheld information, falsified information, and used uncorroborated information to get a warrant to surveilI a US citizen (a CIA asset no less). This is a type of abuse of power on our civil liberties we all (should) agree on.

Amen. Yet the Libtards still continue to side with Comey's assertion they were merely "sloppy". What a joke.

[X-man]

Amen. Yet the Libtards still continue to side with Comey's assertion they were merely "sloppy". What a joke.

So helpful to discussion and mutual respect.

[scoscox]

So helpful to discussion and mutual respect.

if there's one thing liberals have shown conservatives, its a willingness to have discussions and mutual respect

[GoMuskies]

Come on now, contrary to some people's comments, this thread has actually had some of the best and most respectful political discussion of any such board I've seen on the web (low bar, I know!). Let's not have this one also veer in a particularly negative direction.

Also, on a completely unrelated note, anyone who holds political views that conflict with mine is a fucking idiot.

[noteggs]

Come on now, contrary to some people's comments, this thread has actually had some of the best and most respectful political discussion of any such board I've seen on the web (low bar, I know!). Let's not have this one also veer in a particularly negative direction.

Also, on a completely unrelated note, anyone who holds political views that conflict with mine is a fucking idiot.

For the first paragraph, 100% agree. I stopped posting on all other political forums because the lack of respect and only post my misguided opinions here.

As for the second, still LMAO as I type this. Well played!

[Smails]

if there's one thing liberals have shown conservatives, its a willingness to have discussions and mutual respect

You're a racist

[bjf123]

Also, on a completely unrelated note, anyone who holds political views that conflict with mine is a fucking idiot.

Public reps! [emoji1787]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[STL_XUfan]

Amen. Yet the Libtards still continue to side with Comey's assertion they were merely "sloppy". What a joke.

I agree that the FISA courts need to be completely overhauled if not just set on fire.

However, I have never understood the conspiracy theory that the FBI was secretly against Trump in the election. In October of 2018 Comey knew of both an investigation into Clinton and into Trump, but only publicly announced one of those investigations. It almost feels like the conspiracy theory is that Comey set up Trump to get elected so that he could impeach him. Seems like setting him up to not get elected would have been easier.

[boozehound]

if there's one thing liberals have shown conservatives, its a willingness to have discussions and mutual respect

That's a strange bar to apply though, isn't it?

I don't set standards for my personal behavior based on what a group of people whom I despise have chosen to do (or not do).

[vee4xu]

The libtard moniker amuses me. Not sure what those using it mean to achieve by doing so. But, it isn't likely to be meaningful debate or conversation. Generally, using insulting language isn't going to engender an environment where folks want to openly discuss emotional topics. But then, possibly people using libtard, and similar words aren't interested in meaningful conversation? You tell me.

[bjf123]

The libtard moniker amuses me. Not sure what those using it mean to achieve by doing so. But, it isn't likely to be meaningful debate or conversation. Generally, using insulting language isn't going to engender an environment where folks want to openly discuss emotional topics. But then, possibly people using libtard, and similar words aren't interested in meaningful conversation? You tell me.

They probably are trying to achieve the same thing as people using Trumptard. I tend to think that when you resort to name calling, you don’t really have any valid points to make, or can’t defend your own position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scoscox]

That's a strange bar to apply though, isn't it?

I don't set standards for my personal behavior based on what a group of people whom I despise have chosen to do (or not do).

this is absurd logic to apply to politics. also you're the perfect person if this is true, which i doubt.

sure the barbarians are invading rome, but i won't lower myself to fight them off. they won't control my standards of behavior!

just a naive, unrealistic view, and foolish to adopt.

[Lamont Sanford]

if there's one thing liberals have shown conservatives, its a willingness to have discussions and mutual respect

+1. Hilarious.

Merry Christmas Libtards!

[Caf]

this is absurd logic to apply to politics. also you're the perfect person if this is true, which i doubt.

sure the barbarians are invading rome, but i won't lower myself to fight them off. they won't control my standards of behavior!

just a naive, unrealistic view, and foolish to adopt.

Prisoner's dilemma is one hell of a drug.

[GoMuskies]

According to Gallup, as we exit the 2010s, the two most admired men in the United States are Barack Obama and Donald Trump (tied for #1). The two most admired women in the United States are Michelle Obama and Melania Trump. This proves once again the collective lack of imagination of the American people. Really, the last two Presidents and first ladies?!?

[Masterofreality]

I think this is truly hilarious.
After this entire Impeachment Broadway Show engineered by Shifty Schiff, Ninny Nancy, the House Dems and their incredibly complicit Main Stream Media compadres- ABC News and former Clinton minion George Snuffaloffagus-the consensus opinion of all US polls says that Trump should have not been Impeached and Removed from office. Amazingly there are only 3 polls that showed favorability to Impeachment and Fox News (albeit from 12/11/19) was the second biggest spread at 5 points for.
The Dummy Dems have a real problem. After having all of this free media time and the stage to themselves, they still can't win. Wait until Cocaine Mitch gets ahold of this case in the Senate...that is if he ever does because Ninny Nancy still can't decide to send over any Articles.
Just another demented move by the desperate Dems. Meanwhile, on policy, which is the most important and meaningful item, ol' Trump just keeps winning.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....HA!!

[paulxu]

MOR...what's with all the name calling? Sort of reminds me of a Trump Twitter Tantrum.

Edit: wait...you didn't copy paste it did you?

[X-band '01]

When Donald Trump becomes a turncoat like Chris Mack, he'll have his typical pet name for him. Mark my words.

[Caf]

Wait until Cocaine Mitch gets ahold of this case in the Senate...that is if he ever does because Ninny Nancy still can't decide to send over any Articles.

I heard an interesting theory on this at a conference: Nancy is waiting for the right time to take the Senators running for President off of the campaign trail. The analyst thought it was so she could hurt Sanders' and Warren's odds of winning Iowa + NH. I think we'll know if that's the case depending on when she sends it.

[boozehound]

this is absurd logic to apply to politics. also you're the perfect person if this is true, which i doubt.

sure the barbarians are invading rome, but i won't lower myself to fight them off. they won't control my standards of behavior!

just a naive, unrealistic view, and foolish to adopt.

So you are ‘defending Rome’ by lowering your discourse to that of the lowest common denominator? That’s strange logic. Do you feel like you are accomplishing a lot? Is Rome safe? How many libtards have you swayed to your side through name calling?

[bobbiemcgee]

I heard an interesting theory on this at a conference: Nancy is waiting for the right time to take the Senators running for President off of the campaign trail. The analyst thought it was so she could hurt Sanders' and Warren's odds of winning Iowa + NH. I think we'll know if that's the case depending on when she sends it.

Maybe she'll send them Nov. 1st.

[GoMuskies]

Trump has either just destroyed the world or is going to have a monument on the National Mall. Wow.

[Lloyd Braun]

Trump has either just destroyed the world or is going to have a monument on the National Mall. Wow.

In today’s world both can be true!

I actually didn’t think he was desperate enough to start a war to ensure re-election but then again I never thought he wanted to be President in the first place.

[bobbiemcgee]

I actually didn’t think he was desperate enough to start a war to ensure re-election....

Playing "Wag the Dog" on DVR.

[SemajParlor]

Well, things escalated quickly.

[JTG]

Or maybe the US has no business being pushed around by third world shithole countries like Iran. What if that embassy became another Bengazi and all the employees were killed ?

[Xville]

I'm just glad I got to see Rose McGowan and john Cusack's stance on it. I wouldnt know what to think without seeing their opinion. Someone send McGowan to Iran since she loves it so much. They love women there.

[Muskie in dayton]

I'm just glad I got to see Rose McGowan and john Cusack's stance on it. I wouldnt know what to think without seeing their opinion. Someone send McGowan to Iran since she loves it so much. They love women there.

If someone starts a collection to buy her one-way ticket I’ll contribute. The most pathetic thing is if it was Obama, they wouldn’t care or would even praise him. F—- the partisan crap. The guy was a POS:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/03/qassem-soleimani-donald-trump-iran-war-iraq-column/2805482001/

[Lloyd Braun]

“F this partisan crap!” Now let me post an op ed from a conservative writer....

Gimme a break.

Put me in the “collecting more info” camp. This smells fishy and preemptively killing this guy is an atypical response to intel of an attack, sorry. It has already resulted in thousands of troops being deployed to this area. I doubt all make it back alive.

[Muskie in dayton]

“F this partisan crap!” Now let me post an op ed from a conservative writer....

Gimme a break.

Put me in the “collecting more info” camp. This smells fishy and preemptively killing this guy is an atypical response to intel of an attack, sorry. It has already resulted in thousands of troops being deployed to this area. I doubt all make it back alive.

But wait, the stupid Republican guy told me USA Today was a liberal media publication... I’m so confused...

[Xville]

“F this partisan crap!” Now let me post an op ed from a conservative writer....

Gimme a break.

Put me in the “collecting more info” camp. This smells fishy and preemptively killing this guy is an atypical response to intel of an attack, sorry. It has already resulted in thousands of troops being deployed to this area. I doubt all make it back alive.

So because trump is the president, you dont believe the Pentagon. Got it.

[Lloyd Braun]

So because trump is the president, you dont believe the Pentagon. Got it.

Huh? Where did I doubt the intel? I said the response the this intel was atypical.... don’t you think it’s an odd response at all? I think it’s unprecedented to assassinate a foreign leader based on preemptive intel but I am all ears if there is a fair comp.

[GoMuskies]

Well, for this guy there were plenty of backward looking reasons to light him on fire as well. More terrorists sent to hell in Iraq today.

[bobbiemcgee]

Well, things escalated quickly.

Same way Vietnam started. 20,000 troops over there now.