Politics Thread

[Muskie in dayton]

So because a casino ran ads it's safe to say the average American citizen would have spent helicopter money on vices?

That’s ridiculous. It will all go to retirement savings and higher education.

[bobbiemcgee]

Bet it on X @ 100-1

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/march-madness-2020-updated-odds-win-next-years-ncaa-tournament/1fsjtv7a0xve71ryrt2hmz7vdx

[Juice]

Newsweek
‏@Newsweek
Bernie Sanders' 2020 campaign will limit working hours for organizers to guarantee $15 minimum wage

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-campaign-15-dollar-minimum-wage-staff-2020-controversy-1450267?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&utm_source=Twitter

[GoMuskies]

This Jane Meyer article on Franken. Woof. She's a hacker's hack (her bullshit article on the Kochs MIGHT have something to do with my biases against her :) ), but the double standards she's employing when writing about Franken vs. writing about Kavanaugh. Wow.

Here is the Meyer article on Franken, by the way. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

[Caf]

This Jane Meyer article on Franken. Woof. She's a hacker's hack (her bullshit article on the Kochs MIGHT have something to do with my biases against her :) ), but the double standards she's employing when writing about Franken vs. writing about Kavanaugh. Wow.

Here is the Meyer article on Franken, by the way. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

It is worth noting that Kavanaugh got the job and Franken lost his. At least if you're an accused Republican some of your own party, if not all of it, will stand behind you for due process. Not that there's any good outcome once these online riots start going.

I'm not sure I've read the Kavanaugh articles she wrote, but she at least got this one right. Props to Mayor Pete for not cowering to the mob like Gillibrand. I think he'd find a lot of moderates happy to hear a Democrat willing to do so.

[GoMuskies]

The Dems only threw Franken under the bus in the first place because the timing coincided with the Roy Moore vote in Alabama. As soon as the votes were counted they started trying to rehabilitate Franken.

I don't think Franken deserved to lose his seat, but it's precious to see guys like him get religion on due process AFTER they go through something like this.

[Caf]

The Dems only threw Franken under the bus in the first place because the timing coincided with the Roy Moore vote in Alabama. As soon as the votes were counted they started trying to rehabilitate Franken.

I don't think Franken deserved to lose his seat, but it's precious to see guys like him get religion on due process AFTER they go through something like this.

A hard learned lesson for sure. Here's to hoping it's something that spreads in the party, but I won't hold my breath. I saw many on twitter saying the writer just ended her career with that article.

[noteggs]

Kind of sad the majority of MSM had or felt compelled to explain what the Republicans were talking about during the Mueller testimony to their readers and viewers. Whether it was Misfud or Fusion GPS’ meetings with Natalia Veselnitskaya a day before and after the Trump Jr meeting (heck it appeared during Mueller’s testimony, he didn’t know who GPS Fusion was - sad). Not to say some things did or did not happen, the press should have a curiosity on all things in the Russia investigation. This is why I think there is a media bias because of what they chose not to report on or even investigate.

The attached article does a much better job explaining my opinion.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/455002-the-mysterious-mister-mifsud-and-why-no-one-wants-to-discuss-him

[GoMuskies]

Are all of the Democratic presidential hopefuls planning to send out statements today about what a great guy Al Sharpton is? Donald Trump is a pretty epic troll.

[xudash]

A sitting United States senator from Oregon literally helped an illegal immigrant who is 8 1/2 months pregnant get across the border in order for her to take advantage of our healthcare system.

No words.

[Caf]

A sitting United States senator from Oregon literally helped an illegal immigrant who is 8 1/2 months pregnant get across the border in order for her to take advantage of our healthcare system.

No words.

To deny a human heartbeat is to deny science. To ignore it is heartless.

[xudash]

To deny a human heartbeat is to deny science. To ignore it is heartless.

Agree with your first sentence. Agree with your second sentence.

Now explain to me how it is acceptable for an elected official of the United States - a U.S. Senator - to knowingly break the law.

Explain to me why the Democrats continue to block constructive immigration reform policies.

Are you suggesting that the baby, and even perhaps the woman would have died had she not made her way into the U.S. healthcare system to deliver the baby?

[Caf]

Agree with your first sentence. Agree with your second sentence.

Now explain to me how it is acceptable for an elected official of the United States - a U.S. Senator - to knowingly break the law.

Explain to me why the Democrats continue to block constructive immigration reform policies.

Are you suggesting that the baby, and even perhaps the woman would have died had she not made her way into the U.S. healthcare system to deliver the baby?

She was reportedly suffering from "preeclampsia and other complications". Medicine is not my field, but saying she required healthcare seems like a safe bet.

As to the law breaking, seems like officers let them through when he was there. If that's a crime charge him.

Ultimately though I can't see how this Senator assisting a pregnant woman, regardless of whether its just political theater, warrants your dramatic response of, "No words". There are plenty of decent hills to die on in this debate. The lack of reforms you mentioned is one of them. Assisting a pregnant woman is not.

[xudash]

She was reportedly suffering from "preeclampsia and other complications". Medicine is not my field, but saying she required healthcare seems like a safe bet.

As to the law breaking, seems like officers let them through when he was there. If that's a crime charge him.

Ultimately though I can't see how this Senator assisting a pregnant woman, regardless of whether its just political theater, warrants your dramatic response of, "No words". There are plenty of decent hills to die on in this debate. The lack of reforms you mentioned is one of them. Assisting a pregnant woman is not.

How convenient for you. It's your opinion about what you see or don't see with the actions of this senator. This POS was grandstanding, pure and simple. He was travelling with them, waiting to see how they were handled at the 'gate'. The Left's agenda is to make this administration look bad at all costs. VICTIMS to the left and VICTIMS to the right. VICTIMS overcrowded in detention centers that are only full due to the victims themselves. I have liberal friends who have compared the detention centers to Nazi Concentration Camps. When they do that, I pull out my iPhone and bring up images of dead bodies stacked 10 feet high at Auschwitz. Then they shut-up and slither off to get a new fill of chablis.

I actually stand corrected: the law wasn't even technically broken. That's because the "law" for who can and cannot get in and under what circumstances now apparently reads like a User Manual for a garage door opener.

Does Trump care what is going on at the border? Absolutely. An excerpt from recent articles, relating to the CF at our southern border: President Donald Trump also weighed in, placing blame on Democrats. "I hate it," the President said, when asked about the image. "That father, who probably was this wonderful guy, with his daughter, things like this wouldn't happen," he said, before going on to blame the Democrats for "their asylum policy." - - statements were made after a father and daughter were found drowned in the Rio Grande, attempting to cross into the United States.

This administration has been overwhelmed by the crush of migrants arriving at the southern border. In May, nearly 133,000 migrants were arrested for crossing the border illegally, according to Customs and Border Protection data, including more than 11,000 unaccompanied children.

The NO WORDS comment was simple and direct and has a singular focus: it's about an imbecile who should be in his chair in Washington, D.C. working in a FUNCTIONING Congress to come to some resolution of this problem, instead of grandstanding for a controversial photo op he knew he could engineer by laying back and then springing to the aid of that woman.

We need a resolution that involves a humane solution coupled with protection of our sovereign border. We need for Congress to act WITH the administration to get this done. BUT the Far Left wants no part of that.

[GoMuskies]

How dare you dash?!? How dare you? These politicians are going to the border to show their empathy and to experience real human emotion.

https://i2.wp.com/npcdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/aoc-expression.jpg?w=780&ssl=1

[GoMuskies]

I mean, who doesn't get emotional at an empty road with a security guard?!?

https://www.redstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AOC2-620x403.png

[Caf]

How convenient for you. It's your opinion about what you see or don't see with the actions of this senator. This POS was grandstanding, pure and simple. He was travelling with them, waiting to see how they were handled at the 'gate'. The Left's agenda is to make this administration look bad at all costs. VICTIMS to the left and VICTIMS to the right. VICTIMS overcrowded in detention centers that are only full due to the victims themselves. I have liberal friends who have compared the detention centers to Nazi Concentration Camps. When they do that, I pull out my iPhone and bring up images of dead bodies stacked 10 feet high at Auschwitz. Then they shut-up and slither off to get a new fill of chablis.

I actually stand corrected: the law wasn't even technically broken. That's because the "law" for who can and cannot get in and under what circumstances now apparently reads like a User Manual for a garage door opener.

Does Trump care what is going on at the border? Absolutely. An excerpt from recent articles, relating to the CF at our southern border: President Donald Trump also weighed in, placing blame on Democrats. "I hate it," the President said, when asked about the image. "That father, who probably was this wonderful guy, with his daughter, things like this wouldn't happen," he said, before going on to blame the Democrats for "their asylum policy." - - statements were made after a father and daughter were found drowned in the Rio Grande, attempting to cross into the United States.

This administration has been overwhelmed by the crush of migrants arriving at the southern border. In May, nearly 133,000 migrants were arrested for crossing the border illegally, according to Customs and Border Protection data, including more than 11,000 unaccompanied children.

The NO WORDS comment was simple and direct and has a singular focus: it's about an imbecile who should be in his chair in Washington, D.C. working in a FUNCTIONING Congress to come to some resolution of this problem, instead of grandstanding for a controversial photo op he knew he could engineer by laying back and then springing to the aid of that woman.

We need a resolution that involves a humane solution coupled with protection of our sovereign border. We need for Congress to act WITH the administration to get this done. BUT the Far Left wants no part of that.

You're arguing against a bunch of things I didn't say. I completely agree that the blame lies with Congress. I've said as much several times here. This has been a congressional failure for decades. For that reason I'd be less inclined to lay blame solely at the feet of the left, but they definitely deserve a large chunk. I still haven't seen an actual solution from either party.

Back to what I am saying, is grandstanding that helps a pregnant woman with complications get care really the problem here? Focusing on the AOC type of grandstanding Go just posted makes a lot more sense than seeming horrified a pregnant woman received medical attention.

[xudash]

You're arguing against a bunch of things I didn't say. I completely agree that the blame lies with Congress. I've said as much several times here. This has been a congressional failure for decades. For that reason I'd be less inclined to lay blame solely at the feet of the left, but they definitely deserve a large chunk. I still haven't seen an actual solution from either party.

Back to what I am saying, is grandstanding that helps a pregnant woman with complications get care really the problem here? Focusing on the AOC type of grandstanding Go just posted makes a lot more sense than seeming horrified a pregnant woman received medical attention.

Yes. It has to stop at some point. These idiots, particularly on the left, have to begin prioritizing what is best for the United States. THEY ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THE FREAKIN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Yes, grandstanding at this point, in any form, by anyone in authority is a major problem and detriment to working towards a solution, because, unchecked, it will simply go on and on and on and on. One photo op after another.

You are comparing a sitting US Senator to AOC! The most purely accurate meme I've seen concerning AOC is the one with her as a Jeopardy contestant, playing against a sack of hammers leading with a positive cash balance, Forrest Gump in second, and her in negative numbers.

And don't attribute things that I didn't write to me: I'm not horrified that a pregnant woman received medical attention. I will tell you this: I am horrified that irresponsible people continue to bring new life into this world when they shouldn't, because they cannot afford to raise them properly, because they do not have the moral and ethical foundation to raise them properly, or both.

[Caf]

Yes. It has to stop at some point. These idiots, particularly on the left, have to begin prioritizing what is best for the United States. THEY ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THE FREAKIN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Yes, grandstanding at this point, in any form, by anyone in authority is a major problem and detriment to working towards a solution, because, unchecked, it will simply go on and on and on and on. One photo op after another.

You are comparing a sitting US Senator to AOC! The most purely accurate meme I've seen concerning AOC is the one with her as a Jeopardy contestant, playing against a sack of hammers leading with a positive cash balance, Forrest Gump in second, and her in negative numbers.

And don't attribute things that I didn't write to me: I'm not horrified that a pregnant woman received medical attention. I will tell you this: I am horrified that irresponsible people continue to bring new life into this world when they shouldn't, because they cannot afford to raise them properly, because they do not have the moral and ethical foundation to raise them properly, or both.

I was wrong to say you're horrified. I should have said you seem horrified. Oh wait I did.

[xudash]

I was wrong to say you're horrified. I should have said you seem horrified. Oh wait I did.

SAY. SEEM. You were wrong either way.

[UCGRAD4X]

The problem with the senator bringing her over, medical condition not withstanding, is drawing the line. Is the policy now going to depend on medical condition? Who decides which medical issues qualify? And what will be the verification process to determine the veracity of the claim? How are they to be processed when 100,000 illegal immigrants are crossing the the border each month, and those are only the ones that are caught - which, with an appalling lack of borer patrol agents and physical border....who knows how many are REALLY coming over illegally (I can't emphasize the illegally part enough).

Despite many talking points as to neither party having a solution. Republicans have put forward proposals (as has the President) which dems have no interest in even considering. There intent is to see if the status quo - actually the quickly deteriorating problem even they now admit is a crisis (previously 'manufactured') - will win them future election victories.

[xudash]

The problem with the senator bringing her over, medical condition not withstanding, is drawing the line. Is the policy now going to depend on medical condition? Who decides which medical issues qualify? And what will be the verification process to determine the veracity of the claim? How are they to be processed when 100,000 illegal immigrants are crossing the the border each month, and those are only the ones that are caught - which, with an appalling lack of borer patrol agents and physical border....who knows how many are REALLY coming over illegally (I can't emphasize the illegally part enough).

Despite many talking points as to neither party having a solution. Republicans have put forward proposals (as has the President) which dems have no interest in even considering. There intent is to see if the status quo - actually the quickly deteriorating problem even they now admit is a crisis (previously 'manufactured') - will win them future election victories.

Exactly.

I welcome legal immigration. Obviously, immigrants from all walks of life, different races, and many nations made the United States.

But it has to be legal immigration. It has to be legal immigration of people who want to come here in order to become United States citizens. To become Americans. People who want to come here in order to build a life and then give back to society.

There is room for amnesty cases under that umbrella.

But this mass-flooding, illegal bullshit has to stop, especially when much of the optics involving it appear to involve people who are looking to come here for handouts and a government safety net.

[Caf]

The problem with the senator bringing her over, medical condition not withstanding, is drawing the line. Is the policy now going to depend on medical condition? Who decides which medical issues qualify? And what will be the verification process to determine the veracity of the claim? How are they to be processed when 100,000 illegal immigrants are crossing the the border each month, and those are only the ones that are caught - which, with an appalling lack of borer patrol agents and physical border....who knows how many are REALLY coming over illegally (I can't emphasize the illegally part enough).

Despite many talking points as to neither party having a solution. Republicans have put forward proposals (as has the President) which dems have no interest in even considering. There intent is to see if the status quo - actually the quickly deteriorating problem even they now admit is a crisis (previously 'manufactured') - will win them future election victories.

If Dash's problem with it was that this was going to become policy, I stand corrected. He can twist and turn on it all he wants, I don't know why he sees it as worthwhile, but saying "No words" to a Senator helping a pregnant woman is comically dramatic. That response would have made sense for the dead daughter and dad in the river.

I think Trump's proposal is a good start. That being said, I believe stopping or slowing this migration is entirely unrealistic without changes within this country, not just at the border or in Latin American nations. The administration has cut aid to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador by about $560M to motivate them to slow migration. Unfortunately remittances are far more vital to them than aid. Remittances totaled $4.8 billion to Honduras, $5.4 billion to El Salvador and $9.5 billion to Guatemala in 2018. For comparison, Honduras' 2018 GDP was $23B. Then there are those escaping violence. More border agents, judges, walls, aid, minor asylum are not going to do anything to fix the underlying problem. This is, and will still be, their best shot.

[GoMuskies]

Who is going to be in Marianne Williamson's cabinet? Oprah, obv, so I guess that means Gayle King and Stedman, too. But who else?

[Caf]

Who is going to be in Marianne Williamson's cabinet? Oprah, obv, so I guess that means Gayle King and Stedman, too. But who else?

Her cabinet could just be The View.

Honestly I think we may see her jump in the polls. That audience was loving everything she said.

[STL_XUfan]

Exactly.

I welcome legal immigration. Obviously, immigrants from all walks of life, different races, and many nations made the United States.

But it has to be legal immigration. It has to be legal immigration of people who want to come here in order to become United States citizens. To become Americans. People who want to come here in order to build a life and then give back to society.

There is room for amnesty cases under that umbrella.

But this mass-flooding, illegal bullshit has to stop, especially when much of the optics involving it appear to involve people who are looking to come here for handouts and a government safety net.

Isn't seeking asylum at a point of entry legal immigration? Seems like announcing your plans in advance and turning yourself over at the border is really dumb way to try to sneak illegally in at the border. I agree that illegal border crossings are illegal (obviously), but it seems like the media and politicians have grouped illegal border crossings with asylum seekers.

[xudash]

Isn't seeking asylum at a point of entry legal immigration? Seems like announcing your plans in advance and turning yourself over at the border is really dumb way to try to sneak illegally in at the border. I agree that illegal border crossings are illegal (obviously), but it seems like the media and politicians have grouped illegal border crossings with asylum seekers.

I think seeking asylum is about seeking asylum: There are two primary ways in which a person may apply for asylum in the United States: the affirmative process and the defensive process. Asylum seekers who arrive at a U.S. port of entry or enter the United States without inspection generally must apply through the defensive asylum process. Under the affirmative asylum process, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) requires USCIS to schedule the initial interview within 45 days after the application is filed and make a decision within 180 days after the application date.

Then there are those who legally migrate to this country who do so through the defined process and (I presume) who are focused on becoming full American citizens. Every once in awhile, we see pictures of such people proudly taking the pledge of allegiance.

CAF, I'll try this one more time with you: I had no words for a U.S. Senator from Oregon who went into Mexico and essentially embedded himself with a group of immigrants for the purpose of springing on a border guard once this woman, in particular, was denied access to the United States by that entry point.

A U.S. Senator.

Taking a stroll in Mexico amongst the downtrodden and there to save one pregnant woman.

With a lot of cameras around to take it all in.

That newsbite became a tipping point for me in all this. Enough is enough.

That dimwit should be in Washington, along with fellow Republican and Democrat dimwits - it's come to that, given how they simply have virtually polarized against one another - to bring order to this problem.

[OH.X.MI]

I think seeking asylum is about seeking asylum: There are two primary ways in which a person may apply for asylum in the United States: the affirmative process and the defensive process. Asylum seekers who arrive at a U.S. port of entry or enter the United States without inspection generally must apply through the defensive asylum process. Under the affirmative asylum process, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) requires USCIS to schedule the initial interview within 45 days after the application is filed and make a decision within 180 days after the application date.

And, importantly, you must actually qualify for asylum. To do that the immigrant must establish he/she/they/X/Y/Z/P/D/Q was "unable or unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of, [their home country] because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion."

Calling someone an asylum seeker does not make them one, despite what a certain political party says.

[GoMuskies]

Seems like Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang were the big winners in last night's debate. Those are two of the Democratic candidates I could handle as President, so it's good news. Biden is another, and I don't think he hurt himself yesterday. Harris is not someone I want close to being President, so I'm glad Tulsi murdered her last night.

[Caf]

Who's going to the rally tonight?

[boozehound]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-requires-trump-to-release-tax-returns-for-spot-on-primary-ballot-11564515926

While I do think that all Presidential candidates should be required to release certain (reasonable) financial disclosures, this seems like a terrible idea. States should not be enacting specific legislature to keep candidates off the primary ballot. This could go to a very scary place, very quickly.

I assume this will be struck down but a higher court, but the precedent set by even trying some BS like this is scary.

[noteggs]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-requires-trump-to-release-tax-returns-for-spot-on-primary-ballot-11564515926

While I do think that all Presidential candidates should be required to release certain (reasonable) financial disclosures, this seems like a terrible idea. States should not be enacting specific legislature to keep candidates off the primary ballot. This could go to a very scary place, very quickly.

I assume this will be struck down but a higher court, but the precedent set by even trying some BS like this is scary.

A dangerous slippery slope indeed. Easy solution: Congress should pass a law that requires every President, Senator and House member to disclose their tax returns. This way we can see how everyone takes advantage of tax loopholes they setup and passed.

As it currently stands, all members including the people running for President need release a financial disclosure form but are broad. Attached are the forms from the 2016 election. Contrast between Trump and other candidates is interesting.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/financial-disclosures

[Lamont Sanford]

Who's going to the rally tonight?

Coming from you, Caf, I assume you mean a protest rally against the Trumpster.

MAGA.

[bobbiemcgee]

None of the "Medicare for all" candidates stand a chance imho. They need to quit. 180 million Americans aren't giving up their private health care for some unknown BS. 55 million union members have fought for years for their exceptional coverage. 65% of the population are against it. The country's already bankrupt with the new budget. Seniors get screwed since they already paid for it with 50-60 years of contributions (stolen by congress, of course) Utter Bullshit. Stop the fantasy.
The "Free College" is bullshit too. Maybe subsidize JUCO's and definitely trade schools. Every kid not going to college should be able to learn a trade and hopefully graduate with a position in their field. Then, they can pursue whatever college interests them to further their education.

And while I'm on the soapbox, no friggin' reason why diabetics in Detroit can drive 3 miles and get 90% off their life saving insulin. Stop the madness.

[scoscox]

Most of the talking points at these debates are wildly unpopular with Americans. Whoever gets the nomination is gonna have to come way back to the center to win. Healthcare for illegal immigrants, decriminalizing illegal immigration, reparations, etc. are all wildly unpopular.

[scoscox]

Stop the madness.

I agree, but this just made me think of that commercial "stop the madness. stop the madness now!"

[Caf]

Coming from you, Caf, I assume you mean a protest rally against the Trumpster.

MAGA.

I love how guys like you think everyone who doesn't love Trump is a crazed leftist.

[boozehound]

Most of the talking points at these debates are wildly unpopular with Americans. Whoever gets the nomination is gonna have to come way back to the center to win. Healthcare for illegal immigrants, decriminalizing illegal immigration, reparations, etc. are all wildly unpopular.

Amen to that. Although I thought that during the Republican primaries last cycle and we elected Trump, so who knows what can happen.

I can't believe that we are seriously talking about reparations, on a national stage, during a presidential debate though. It's not like we have some massive budget surplus that we can't spend and need to give away.

[scoscox]

Trumps policies were at least popular though even if he isn’t. Restricting both legal and illegal immigration is the most popular issue for Americans. The. Most. Of course you’d never know this the way the media and political class behave

[X-man]

Trumps policies were at least popular though even if he isn’t. Restricting both legal and illegal immigration is the most popular issue for Americans. The. Most. Of course you’d never know this the way the media and political class behave

The 2018 election results suggest that access to healthcare (for all Americans) is the most popular issue among voters as a whole. Immigration may well be THE issue for Trump supporters, but it is a stretch to say that it is also the issue for everyone else. Of course you'd never know this the way Fox and the right wing media behave.

[Lloyd Braun]

What’s most important to voters? It’s always going to be money. Every single time. What we saw was a flip in voters that had traditionally voted Democrat vote for Trump because he promised jobs. He wisely used illegal immigration as a main threat to jobs. The economy has been improving since Obama was in office, but you wouldn’t have known it during the 2016 campaigns. By the time we circle back in 2020, how we make money will again be the most important issue. Tht is why Trump will likely win again without a strategy shift from Democrats. They’re focusing on the wrong issues to get their traditional base fired up and fringe voters back on their side. They’re too distracted by his racist rhetoric and outrageous commentary to focus on important issues.

[Caf]

Trumps policies were at least popular though even if he isn’t. Restricting both legal and illegal immigration is the most popular issue for Americans. The. Most. Of course you’d never know this the way the media and political class behave

From what I've found, you're not giving Trump enough credit. He made immigration the biggest issue.

Government Named Top U.S. Problem for Second Straight Year - Gallup 2016 (https://news.gallup.com/poll/187979/government-named-top-problem-second-straight-year.aspx)

[OH.X.MI]

What’s most important to voters? It’s always going to be money. Every single time. What we saw was a flip in voters that had traditionally voted Democrat vote for Trump because he promised jobs. He wisely used illegal immigration as a main threat to jobs. The economy has been improving since Obama was in office, but you wouldn’t have known it during the 2016 campaigns. By the time we circle back in 2020, how we make money will again be the most important issue. Tht is why Trump will likely win again without a strategy shift from Democrats. They’re focusing on the wrong issues to get their traditional base fired up and fringe voters back on their side. They’re too distracted by his racist rhetoric and outrageous commentary to focus on important issues.

You hit the nail on the head. As Bill Clinton's campaign preached -- "it's the economy, stupid."

And as Jason Williams (https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/columnists/politics-extra/2019/08/02/donald-trump-cincinnati-why-republican-wins-again-2020/1858521001/) (who's actually a great voice in an otherwise terrible paper) for the Enquirer said this morning -- "CNN and Twitter aren't the real world. Ohio and Kentucky are."

I did not go last night, but am more convinced than ever Trump will win 2020. Middle America will never vote for the candidates who spoke in Detroit the last few days. Thank god for the electoral college.

[Xville]

I think Biden would stand a chance against Trump if he wins the nomination and then moves to the center during the general election. The rest dont stand a freaking chance...they are all complete looney bins.

[GoMuskies]

We've got a new Red Scare going on. People are now seriously claiming Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset sent in to disrupt the Democratic primaries. There's some next level tinfoil-hatting going on these days.

[Caf]

I think Biden would stand a chance against Trump if he wins the nomination and then moves to the center during the general election. The rest dont stand a freaking chance...they are all complete looney bins.

I really hate to say this, but I think Bernie has a chance for the same reason Trump won. He's going to blame everyone's problems on someone else (the rich and corporations) and promise solutions. Seems like a winning formula nowadays.

[Xville]

I really hate to say this, but I think Bernie has a chance for the same reason Trump won. He's going to blame everyone's problems on someone else (the rich and corporations) and promise solutions. Seems like a winning formula nowadays.

I think he would probably win the popular vote, but I dont think he would stand a chance in the 4-5 states that actually matter every 4 years.

[X-man]

We've got a new Red Scare going on. People are now seriously claiming Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset sent in to disrupt the Democratic primaries. There's some next level tinfoil-hatting going on these days.

Is your source RedState? Child, please. Everything I have read suggests that the Russians appear to be backing Gabbard on their known troll sites because she has the least chance of defeating Russia's preferred US leader, Trump.

[noteggs]

From what I've found, you're not giving Trump enough credit. He made immigration the biggest issue.

Government Named Top U.S. Problem for Second Straight Year - Gallup 2016 (https://news.gallup.com/poll/187979/government-named-top-problem-second-straight-year.aspx)

This is where I get confused. I’ve seen polls like this where people think government is the problem. Yet people put so much faith in them fixing our ill’s. Guess I need a little more information on what it means that “government is the problem”. I automatically think of spending and size/scope (I know surprise coming from me), but I’m sure there’s a lot more to that question like political conflict as the article alludes to.

[GoMuskies]

Is your source RedState? Child, please. Everything I have read suggests that the Russians appear to be backing Gabbard on their known troll sites because she has the least chance of defeating Russia's preferred US leader, Trump.

Even X-Man is wearing the tin-foil. Russia, Russia everywhere!

[scoscox]

Is your source RedState? Child, please. Everything I have read suggests that the Russians appear to be backing Gabbard on their known troll sites because she has the least chance of defeating Russia's preferred US leader, Trump.

Are these places you’re reading the same places that have been pushing trump-Russia for three years?

[paulxu]

Do you suppose all the people at the rally were gullible enough to believe his nonsense?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/02/politics/donald-trump-cincinnati-rally-fact-check/index.html

[GoMuskies]

Do you suppose all the people at the rally were gullible enough to believe his nonsense?


ALL of them? Of course not. A scary %? Yes.

Some of that "fact check" was a bit obnoxious though. Trump: 3.5% unemployment. Fact-check: Well, ACKCHYUALLY it was 3.6%.

[bobbiemcgee]

ALL of them? Of course not. A scary %? Yes.

I get so tired of the claim "we gave Iran 150b-60b-56b-50b", whatever it was. It was THEIR ASSETS put on hold throughout the world due to sanctions. It was never OUR MONEY. We had no permanent claim to it. We released the "hold" on THEIR FUNDS. Just like if a bank slaps a hold on your funds. It's never becomes the bank's money, it's still your money. Iran got their own money back.

[GoMuskies]

Agree on the Iran situation. I still would have been perfectly okay if we had decided to release their money as pallets of $100 bills, and somehow those bills tragically caught on fire en route.

[X-man]

ScoScox and GoMuskies, I have a confession to make. Until this week, I had never heard of Gabbard. And I only heard of her this week because a friend of mine mentioned her name. I had to Google her to find anything about the so-called conspiracy theories about her.

I don't watch the debates for either party, and I don't believe a word that any candidate makes on the stump. After living and working in DC for 10 years, I stopped voting altogether because I was so disgusted by all politicians regardless of party affiliation. In DC, they were everywhere you went so you couldn't avoid them. All of them seemed universally slimy to me. It didn't help that a lot of my friends worked on the Hill, and even many of them seemed pretty jaded.

It was several years after moving away, to Cincinnati, before I began voting again. I still don't trust any politician, but the issues are important. Now I vote for politicians more for their general philosophy and observed activity rather than on the basis of anything they say. So I don't follow the "debates", and frankly don't pay any attention to the candidates until it is close to convention time. As you know, I hold strong views on a lot of policy issues with many of my positions based on the fact that I am a professional economist. But for me, a vote is a leap of faith.

[xudash]

Agree on the Iran situation. I still would have been perfectly okay if we had decided to release their money as pallets of $100 bills, and somehow those bills tragically caught on fire en route.

Superb response.

Any way you could hold down a key State Department position from Wichita?

[bjf123]

I don't watch the debates for either party, and I don't believe a word that any candidate makes on the stump.

Public reps. More people need to do this. They’re saying whatever they think will get you to vote for them, even if they know they’re flat out lying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scoscox]

ScoScox and GoMuskies, I have a confession to make. Until this week, I had never heard of Gabbard. And I only heard of her this week because a friend of mine mentioned her name. I had to Google her to find anything about the so-called conspiracy theories about her.

I don't watch the debates for either party, and I don't believe a word that any candidate makes on the stump. After living and working in DC for 10 years, I stopped voting altogether because I was so disgusted by all politicians regardless of party affiliation. In DC, they were everywhere you went so you couldn't avoid them. All of them seemed universally slimy to me. It didn't help that a lot of my friends worked on the Hill, and even many of them seemed pretty jaded.

It was several years after moving away, to Cincinnati, before I began voting again. I still don't trust any politician, but the issues are important. Now I vote for politicians more for their general philosophy and observed activity rather than on the basis of anything they say. So I don't follow the "debates", and frankly don't pay any attention to the candidates until it is close to convention time. As you know, I hold strong views on a lot of policy issues with many of my positions based on the fact that I am a professional economist. But for me, a vote is a leap of faith.

I totally get that. Everything you said, but if that’s true, I’m not sure why you’d accept the establishment democrats narrative bout tulsi being a Russian asset. It’s pretty clearly a cheap smear because they don’t want her getting the nomination. I’m not even a tulsi fan, have no intention of voting for her, but the idea that she’s only getting traction because of some sinister Russian influence is an absurd an obvious lie. She was the most searched candidate after the debate in all 50 states. It’s such a lazy smear and I can’t believe some people don’t immediately dismiss it

[X-man]

I totally get that. Everything you said, but if that’s true, I’m not sure why you’d accept the establishment democrats narrative bout tulsi being a Russian asset. It’s pretty clearly a cheap smear because they don’t want her getting the nomination. I’m not even a tulsi fan, have no intention of voting for her, but the idea that she’s only getting traction because of some sinister Russian influence is an absurd an obvious lie. She was the most searched candidate after the debate in all 50 states. It’s such a lazy smear and I can’t believe some people don’t immediately dismiss it

I don't believe it for a second. I just was trolling you a little bit. I am sorry. That said, I also don't buy the statement that the Russian asset story is an "establishment Democrat" position.

[scoscox]

Well the people I’ve seen pushing it are mostly democratic operatives and media people that’s why I say that. Especially kamala Harris and joe Biden campaign people

[X-man]

Well the people I’ve seen pushing it are mostly democratic operatives and media people that’s why I say that. Especially kamala Harris and joe Biden campaign people

Do you have a source? I can't find any link to Biden at all.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump sez he is sorry for the people of Toledo....

[UCGRAD4X]

Trump sez he is sorry for the people of Toledo....

Aren't we all!

[XUOWNSUC]

Trump sez he is sorry for the people of Toledo....

Biden said Houston and Michigan...

[bjf123]

Trump sez he is sorry for the people of Toledo....


Biden said Houston and Michigan...

That’s why they call this flyover country. They all really have no clue what’s where unless it’s one of the coasts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

So what's everyone's theory on the Epstein suicide? Killed on Trump orders? Killed on Clinton orders? Paid someone off to look the other way while he killed himself? Isn't really dead and this was an elaborate escape?

[xukeith]

So what's everyone's theory on the Epstein suicide? Killed on Trump orders? Killed on Clinton orders? Paid someone off to look the other way while he killed himself? Isn't really dead and this was an elaborate escape?

He is alive and sitting at Burger King with Vince Foster and Elvis Presley.

[scoscox]

So what's everyone's theory on the Epstein suicide? Killed on Trump orders? Killed on Clinton orders? Paid someone off to look the other way while he killed himself? Isn't really dead and this was an elaborate escape?

Seems like he was connected to some very powerful people beyond american politicians. He was in deep with Les Wexner and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. I don't have any definitive theory, but I think it's beyond trump or the clintons. From what I've heard about it, I don't think Trump or Bill Clinton had all that much to worry about from his testimony anyway

[boozehound]

Seems like he was connected to some very powerful people beyond american politicians. He was in deep with Les Wexner and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. I don't have any definitive theory, but I think it's beyond trump or the clintons. From what I've heard about it, I don't think Trump or Bill Clinton had all that much to worry about from his testimony anyway

I agree with this. It also could just have been laziness / apathy on the part of the prison guard. My understanding is that they were supposed to check on him every 30 min. You can hang yourself in under 30 min.

[bobbiemcgee]

I agree with this. It also could just have been laziness / apathy on the part of the prison guard. My understanding is that they were supposed to check on him every 30 min. You can hang yourself in under 30 min.

Apparently there was no guard, just some employee filling in for staff shortages. They say guards there work up to 18 hrs. a day and sleep in their cars. Ironic that Barr says he was "applauded" since the prison is run by him (the DOJ). Guess he will be investigating himself.

[scoscox]

I agree with this. It also could just have been laziness / apathy on the part of the prison guard. My understanding is that they were supposed to check on him every 30 min. You can hang yourself in under 30 min.

Nah I don’t buy any of that stuff. Way too many perfect coincidences of incompetence at once

[noteggs]

Apparently there was no guard, just some employee filling in for staff shortages. They say guards there work up to 18 hrs. a day and sleep in their cars. Ironic that Barr says he was "applauded" since the prison is run by him (the DOJ). Guess he will be investigating himself.

Way way too much misinformation at this point. Every time I search his name, I get completely different info. Strange story for sure and would like to get to bottom, but want to hold opinion until press stops speculating and get the facts straight. However, not confident on this...

[JTG]

Personally I don't give a shit. Just glad he's dead and no more tax money will be wasted on housing
him, or trying him.

[scoscox]

I’d be a lot happier if he died after testifying against the billionaire pedophiles that will never be exposed now. Kind of shocking honestly how indifferent people are about this. “Yea this dude had pedophilic blackmail on some of the most powerful people in the world and they clearly had him killed in prison but oh well!”

[UCGRAD4X]

Now hearing he's not dead but was spirited away because of the information he has.

Around and around it goes...where it stops....

[STL_XUfan]

Now hearing he's not dead but was spirited away because of the information he has.

Around and around it goes...where it stops....

It was clearly at the instructions of JFK, Jr., who remains in hiding until he appears in the Spring of 2020 to replace Mike Pence on the ticket and announce the pending arrests of all of Epstein's accomplices and clientele, in the most complex undercover operation in the history of the world. Thank God Q-Anon is here to guide us through all of this.

[scoscox]

I'm all in on buying Greenland

[Juice]

I'm all in on buying Greenland

I didn’t know how much I wanted Greenland since I found out it might be for sale.

[bobbiemcgee]

I didn’t know how much I wanted Greenland since I found out it might be for sale.
Mexico will pay for it.

[UCGRAD4X]

Mexico will pay for it.

Nah - Greendland's going to pay us to take it. It's the art of the deal....duh!

[paulxu]

Does Greenland have a Man of the Year award?

[noteggs]

Ok if you want to keep corporate money out of federal elections or even reduce corporate influence, I’m all ears. However, this kind of stuff is really stupid and taking advantage of the uninformed...welcome to Twitter! Love following X and CBB stuff on Twitter but a lot the stuff is pure garbage!

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/458806-olive-garden-refutes-viral-tweet-that-it-donated-to-trumps-2020

[XU 87]

I'm all in on buying Greenland

Maybe we could swap California for Greenland.

[bobbiemcgee]

...and drop nuclear bombs on hurricanes..

[scoscox]

I don’t know if this is political, but Xavier deciding that the SAT and ACT scores are no longer a requirement strikes me as kind of a cheap money grab. Can’t say I’m a fan of it. Maybe I’m not seeing it but it seems really bush league. Was this really a move that needed to be made? I mean it just looks bad

[Muskie in dayton]

I don’t know if this is political, but Xavier deciding that the SAT and ACT scores are no longer a requirement strikes me as kind of a cheap money grab. Can’t say I’m a fan of it. Maybe I’m not seeing it but it seems really bush league. Was this really a move that needed to be made? I mean it just looks bad

High school academic performance is a much better indicator of college performance than standardized tests. The only money grab is on the part of standardized test services and the places that teach kids how to beat the tests.

Great decision by X.

[Caf]

I don’t know if this is political, but Xavier deciding that the SAT and ACT scores are no longer a requirement strikes me as kind of a cheap money grab. Can’t say I’m a fan of it. Maybe I’m not seeing it but it seems really bush league. Was this really a move that needed to be made? I mean it just looks bad

How is it a money grab that looks bad?

[noteggs]

Wonder if trend has anything to do with the SAT scrapping their “Adversity Score?” Overall, I like the idea of putting the decision making process more into the schools.

[xudash]

I don’t know if this is political, but Xavier deciding that the SAT and ACT scores are no longer a requirement strikes me as kind of a cheap money grab. Can’t say I’m a fan of it. Maybe I’m not seeing it but it seems really bush league. Was this really a move that needed to be made? I mean it just looks bad

I was concerned about the optics behind this move at first as well, then I read up on it a little and came to the same conclusion as Muskie in Dayton.

What really sealed it for me was learning that the University of Chicago, among others, are on the same track.

I really think this is going to be a fantastic outcome for Xavier and it will have a beneficial side effect: puncturing some of the college rating services that come up with stupid outcomes.

[X-man]

So Fox isn't "fair and balanced" after all. Who knew??? Link: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/459105-trump-criticizes-fox-which-isnt-working-for-us-anymore.

[JTG]

High school academic performance is a much better indicator of college performance than standardized tests. The only money grab is on the part of standardized test services and the places that teach kids how to beat the tests.

Great decision by X.
The fallacy of this is some high schools are much easier than others. A's at some schools would be C's at other schools. Hence, the standardized test.

[XUOWNSUC]

The fallacy of this is some high schools are much easier than others. A's at some schools would be C's at other schools. Hence, the standardized test.

Xavier should have a pretty good idea of which schools are which. Plus, they should have a ton of data showing which students from which schools fair the best when they come to Xavier. It isn't hard.

Why should they give a ton of weight to a stupid test that is taken during ONE day and that can be "gamed" by students taking review/prep classes?

My wife didn't take a review/prep course and barely got over 1000 on her SAT. She had a 4.0 at Xavier. Shows you how accurate they are.

The tests suck and I'm glad Xavier doesn't care that much about them any more.

[scoscox]

How is it a money grab that looks bad?

It looks bad for a number of reasons. On the surface it just looks like they’re abolishing admissions standards and any schmuck can get in now. From the money perspective it looks like a way to skirt admissions standards and inflate enrollment

[Muskie in dayton]

It looks bad for a number of reasons. On the surface it just looks like they’re abolishing admissions standards and any schmuck can get in now. From the money perspective it looks like a way to skirt admissions standards and inflate enrollment

Because they scrap a poor indicator of college performance, they somehow are compromising admission standards? That makes no sense.

[scoscox]

Wouldn’t eliminating an admissions requirement based on an academic test qualify as something that may compromise admission standards? I don’t think that was out of line. Maybe you can enlighten me

Also what source are you citing with your claim about them not being a good predictor of performance?

[JTG]

It looks bad for a number of reasons. On the surface it just looks like they’re abolishing admissions standards and any schmuck can get in now. From the money perspective it looks like a way to skirt admissions standards and inflate enrollment

Don't we as as alums yearn for a student body made up of trust fund dummies ? As for gaming the tests, you can also game classes, once your in college.

[Muskie in dayton]

Wouldn’t eliminating an admissions requirement based on an academic test qualify as something that may compromise admission standards? I don’t think that was out of line. Maybe you can enlighten me

Also what source are you citing with your claim about them not being a good predictor of performance?

OK, here’s a few:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/21/a-telling-study-about-act-sat-scores/?noredirect=on
https://news.psu.edu/story/165456/2010/08/23/standardized-tests-not-always-best-indicator-success
https://growingleaders.com/blog/do-standardized-tests-really-predict-student-success/
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/op_education/2015/11/standardized_test_scores_do_not_predict.html
https://qz.com/853128/grades-not-iq-or-standardized-test-score-is-what-predicts-future-success/
https://bized.aacsb.edu/articles/2016/05/standardized-tests-dont-predict-student-success

I also base this on my experience and conversations over the year with friends, neighbors and co-workers on this topic.

When my daughter was looking at colleges, we also looked into those ACT/SAT prep classes. They guaranteed if I gave them a few thousand $ for her to take their class, her scores would go up by at least 5 points. So effectively I could pay for someone to show her how to game the test. This is nothing but a “lite” version of what those Hollywood stars are going to jail for.

Oh, by the way, I did find a few sources indicating what a great indicator standardized test scores are of college success. You guessed it - the places selling the “test prep” classes... Yeah.

[scoscox]

Prep classes are a total scam sure and no doubt those companies are trying to turn a buck but I don’t see it as some sort of out of control racket. Thanks for the sources

[paulxu]

This is a little off the subject, but prep classes for the bar exam seem to be beneficial.

[STL_XUfan]

This is a little off the subject, but prep classes for the bar exam seem to be beneficial.
I think most college graduates could pass the bar by taking BarBri. I know it is the only reason I got through 2 of them (second time I skipped the class and just bought the books off of someone)

[OH.X.MI]

I think most college graduates could pass the bar by taking BarBri. I know it is the only reason I got through 2 of them (second time I skipped the class and just bought the books off of someone)

I did the same and agree. Just about any college grad could pass the bar without ever even attending law school if they take BarBri. I tell law students I meet now to buy older editions of BarBri outlines as 1Ls and study them instead of listening to pontificating law professors, know nothing about the actual practice of law and intentionally make law school classes a byzantine maze to keep their tenure.

[GoMuskies]

You guys are underestimating the number of really, really stupid college graduates out there. And I find that really surprising coming from anyone who went to law school. I mean, presumably those people were at the upper end of college graduates, and sprinkled among the brilliant were a not insignificant number of complete morons.

[Caf]

It looks bad for a number of reasons. On the surface it just looks like they’re abolishing admissions standards and any schmuck can get in now. From the money perspective it looks like a way to skirt admissions standards and inflate enrollment

I guess it could be a money grab if a bunch of kids think this means this is an easy school to get into and they just get a ton of application fees.

I don't think this will impact their standards though. From my experience, I was a lazy-ass high school student with mediocre grades but I did well on the SAT. I'll just say my college performance trended more towards my high school performance rather than my SAT performance.

[94GRAD]

I guess it could be a money grab if a bunch of kids think this means this is an easy school to get into and they just get a ton of application fees.

I don't think this will impact their standards though. From my experience, I was a lazy-ass high school student with mediocre grades but I did well on the SAT. I'll just say my college performance trended more towards my high school performance rather than my SAT performance.

There is no longer an application fee to X.

[GoMuskies]

I think it's awesome that we're relitigating this Kavanaugh thing again about a year later. The NY Times doesn't seem to mind lighting its reputation on fire over the whole thing, either.

Also, two more reasons Andrew Yang is my favorite Democratic candidate: (1) He was basically the only candidate not to publicly call for Kavanaugh's impeachment when the (incomplete) NY Times article came out; (2) He publicly stated that he did not think Shane Gillis should be fired by SNL (before SNL actually fired him) over his Asian slurs. (Granted, Gillis seems like kind of an unfunny hack from what I can tell, but SNL is so awful now who would have noticed anyway?).

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump's "locked and loaded" sounds a lot like Bush's '03 fiasco. Fuck the Saudis. We don't need to protect their asses after selling them billions in tanks and planes. Not worth one American life. 19 of their citizens were responsible for 9/11. We don't need their oil. Trump loves it when they fill up his hotels with their ridiculous entourages at ridiculous rates and loan him money. Stop the Corruption.
Expect more of these attacks when you can strap a stick of c-4 to a $200 drone and take out millions in oil rigs.

[scoscox]

Trump's "locked and loaded" sounds a lot like Bush's '03 fiasco. Fuck the Saudis. We don't need to protect their asses after selling them billions in tanks and planes. Not worth one American life. 19 of their citizens were responsible for 9/11. We don't need their oil. Trump loves it when they fill up his hotels with their ridiculous entourages at ridiculous rates and loan him money. Stop the Corruption.
Expect more of these attacks when you can strap a stick of c-4 to a $200 drone and take out millions in oil rigs.

agreed. i get the feeling trump will err on the side of deescalation. I didn't like those tweets, but it seems like he's atleast not rushing to take action.

either way i'm getting very tired of these obvious, transparent attempts to draw us into military action. These people can fuck all the way off. I dream of a day when the focus of foreign policy isn't the middle east 24/7/365. there's no reason it should be such a constant focus for our country.

[GoMuskies]

I dream of a day when the focus of foreign policy isn't the middle east 24/7/365. there's no reason it should be such a constant focus for our country.

This is particularly true now that we've got our own oil. And as oil becomes less important over the next (hopefully 10 but probably more like 30) years.

Of course, the foreign policy discussions elsewhere will end up being just as shitty.

[boozehound]

I think it's awesome that we're relitigating this Kavanaugh thing again about a year later. The NY Times doesn't seem to mind lighting its reputation on fire over the whole thing, either.

Also, two more reasons Andrew Yang is my favorite Democratic candidate: (1) He was basically the only candidate not to publicly call for Kavanaugh's impeachment when the (incomplete) NY Times article came out; (2) He publicly stated that he did not think Shane Gillis should be fired by SNL (before SNL actually fired him) over his Asian slurs. (Granted, Gillis seems like kind of an unfunny hack from what I can tell, but SNL is so awful now who would have noticed anyway?).

Could you imagine if Yang was the Democratic candidate? There is no way Trump would be able to resist pulling his eyes back into slits and making some kind of 'Ching, Chang, Chong' type of Asian reference. 100% Chance of that happening.

[muskienick]

Could you imagine if Yang was the Democratic candidate? There is no way Trump would be able to resist pulling his eyes back into slits and making some kind of 'Ching, Chang, Chong' type of Asian reference. 100% Chance of that happening.

As much as I would like to see Trump again make an ass of himself (as he does multiple times on a daily basis) by performing the same type of racist thing vis a vis Yang like he did with a disabled person a while back, Yang's chances of being the Dem's candidate for President in 2020 are no better than mine!

[GoMuskies]

Yang's chances of being the Dem's candidate for President in 2020 are no better than mine!

Unfortunately, I'm afraid he's far too reasonable and rational to have much of a future in electoral politics.

[bobbiemcgee]

Warren's supporters are ALMOST as delusional as VD fans, altho I would enjoy another $2400 on my SS check.

[Caf]

What happened to the repo rate this week should concern people. There's too much federal debt outstanding for our financial system to handle it without help from the Fed. AKA the US public is struggling to finance the US government. Meanwhile President Trump has somehow managed to underfund the government more than it already was while the economy is hot.

I think we should all start getting comfortable with the idea of modern monetary theory (perpetually rolling deficits). There's no appetite for deleveraging in our federal government.

[chico]

Unfortunately, I'm afraid he's far too reasonable and rational to have much of a future in electoral politics.

Interesting article on your boy Yang.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/andrew-yang-consummate-outsider/598288/?fbclid=IwAR1VYf6Y7Pm_-dE-1Za_pbuzqBJfeKdgP3M6hD8Viju7GxABaLQ7Ot-KwtQ

[Xville]

Hopefully Yang or Biden win the nomination..at least then I could vote against Trump. We do not need a wackadoodle like warren, Sanders or their cronies running against another wackadoodle in trump.

[GoMuskies]

Interesting article on your boy Yang.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/andrew-yang-consummate-outsider/598288/?fbclid=IwAR1VYf6Y7Pm_-dE-1Za_pbuzqBJfeKdgP3M6hD8Viju7GxABaLQ7Ot-KwtQ

As someone who thinks the economy is the first, second, third and fourth most important issue in every election, I certainly did enjoy that article. Thanks,

[bobbiemcgee]

Trump talking about how honest he is this morning. New poll sez otherwise. 69% say he is dishonest and a liar. What a country.

[ChicagoX]

Trump talking about how honest he is this morning. New poll sez otherwise. 69% say he is dishonest and a liar. What a country.

It's still kind of sad that 31% of people in this country think he's anything other than a persistently lying shitbag. It goes to show the power of partisan propaganda disguised as news. There are people who believe everything that comes out of his mouth.

[GoMuskies]

In politics, my shitbag > YOUR shitbag

We need fewer shitbags.

[ChicagoX]

In politics, my shitbag > YOUR shitbag

We need fewer shitbags.

Best post of this entire damn thread.

[GoMuskies]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

[Juice]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

She's so brave...or something like that.

[GoMuskies]

By the way, I guess impeachment is on. It's almost anti-climactic at this point! I mean, there's about a 0% chance of actual removal (unless there's a bigger bombshell to come), but that was the case with Clinton, too, and people seemed to think it was a big deal then. Less so now.

[JTG]

Hopefully someone starts a "Nitwit Hall of Fame", and AOC is the inaugural inductee.

[bobbiemcgee]

By the way, I guess impeachment is on. It's almost anti-climactic at this point! I mean, there's about a 0% chance of actual removal (unless there's a bigger bombshell to come)…..


Count on it.

[Caf]

Rumors in the swap are Pelosi will announce impeachment hearings this afternoon.

[scoscox]

Count on it.

lol come on. how many times has this been said the last three years about getting rid of trump?

[GoMuskies]

I've been wrong plenty of times before, but impeachment just does not seem like a winning strategy. It's a big fuck you to all of the people who voted for Trump in 2016, and Democrats needs some of those people to vote for their candidate in 2020.

I would not even be a little bit surprised if the end result is President Pence and Justice Amy Cohen Barrett.

[noteggs]

This whole Ukraine stuff is so whacked. This article goes back to GO’s comment “my shitbag > Your shitbag” (if I’m reading his remarks correctly).

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/462658-lets-get-real-democrats-were-first-to-enlist-ukraine-in-us-elections

[scoscox]

pelosi has already backed off saying this is about the ukraine call. i guess we're gonna go back to impeaching him because he was too complimentary to putin once in a meeting

[GoMuskies]

This whole Ukraine stuff is so whacked. This article goes back to GO’s comment “my shitbag > Your shitbag” (if I’m reading his remarks correctly).

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/462658-lets-get-real-democrats-were-first-to-enlist-ukraine-in-us-elections

Jesus, shitbags everywhere.

[scoscox]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/ukraine-whistleblowers-lawyers-work-for-group-that-offers-to-pay-officials-who-leak-against-trump

this seems slightly suspicious

[scoscox]

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1176589976454270978

??? what does this even mean? what else is there?

[X-man]

I've been wrong plenty of times before, but impeachment just does not seem like a winning strategy. It's a big fuck you to all of the people who voted for Trump in 2016, and Democrats needs some of those people to vote for their candidate in 2020.

I would not even be a little bit surprised if the end result is President Pence and Justice Amy Cohen Barrett.

I agree that it is not a winning strategy, if only because "President Pence" would be more electable by the right than our current "Prez". However Trump's base will never vote for a Democrat, whether or not Trump is impeached, and the Dem's chances of winning depend solely on turnout by all those (a sizable majority if all the polls can be believed) voters who are angered by Trump the man and his policies. This is why the choice of candidate is so critical. Will Biden (who doesn't enervate the young part of the Dem's base) or Warren (who doesn't enervate the mainstream Dem base along with many independents) get the turnout needed. Trump's base and turnout is irrelevant if the Dem's get their turnout.

[GoMuskies]

Trump's base will never vote for a Democrat

Probably true of his core supporters. But Trump got a not-insignificant number of Bernie supporters to vote for him. And there were plenty of not-Hillary votes as well. I think you'd be very surprised at the number of people who switch from party to party in Presidential elections that voted for Trump. I think there are a lot of people who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

You also don't want to rile up Republican and Republican leaners who were otherwise happy to stay home and not vote for Trump by making them think that Trump (and Republicans in general) are being treated unfairly. In an election likely to be decided by a sliver of a sliver of the voting age population, I really don't think this is the way to go.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/ukraine-whistleblowers-lawyers-work-for-group-that-offers-to-pay-officials-who-leak-against-trump

this seems slightly suspicious

The IG (a Trump appointee) determined the complaint was a danger to our national security. The IG referred it to the DNI (a trump appointee) who refused to pass it on to Congress as REQUIRED by LAW. I would suspect if I was the Whistleblower I would seek some protection wherever I could get some, since the system obviously failed him.

[Xville]

Probably true of his core supporters. But Trump got a not-insignificant number of Bernie supporters to vote for him. And there were plenty of not-Hillary votes as well. I think you'd be very surprised at the number of people who switch from party to party in Presidential elections that voted for Trump. I think there are a lot of people who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

You also don't want to rile up Republican and Republican leaners who were otherwise happy to stay home and not vote for Trump by making them think that Trump (and Republicans in general) are being treated unfairly. In an election likely to be decided by a sliver of a sliver of the voting age population, I really don't think this is the way to go.

Yep...I was one of those Obama-trump voters. I'll vote for a Democrat against trump if it's one that isnt a fucktard like Warren or bernie.

[Xville]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

Some adults told me I should be mad about something...so I'm mad!

[bjf123]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

Agreed. 100% chance she wins it.

[boozehound]

I've been wrong plenty of times before, but impeachment just does not seem like a winning strategy. It's a big fuck you to all of the people who voted for Trump in 2016, and Democrats needs some of those people to vote for their candidate in 2020.

I would not even be a little bit surprised if the end result is President Pence and Justice Amy Cohen Barrett.

I agree that this seems stupid. There is simply no way that Trump gets convicted in the Senate. I don't know if this is an attempt to force more testimony under oath that Dems hope they can use against him in the election, or just a misguided attempt to rile up the base. I have pretty much no faith in the House of Representatives at all (regardless of who is in charge) to hold themselves back from doing something ridiculous. That chamber has been completely off the rails for over a decade now.

Also - in the scheme of what is going on right now, the Clinton scandal seems downright quaint.

[Muskie in dayton]

Yep...I was one of those Obama-trump voters. I'll vote for a Democrat against trump if it's one that isnt a fucktard like Warren or bernie.

I was kind of like that but I didn’t vote for either. Hillary and Trump were fucktard choices last time, and only two of the Democrats aren’t fucktards (IMO) this time, and they aren’t going to be the nominee. So.... it looks like Travis Steele will become my third XU coach I vote for President!

[Muskie in dayton]

So, what are the chances Greta Thunberg is Time Person of the Year for yelling nonsense at an adoring audience at the UN yesterday? I'm guessing 100% unless someone shoots Trump before the end of the year.

The fact that a teenager is the voice of climate change doomsdayers pretty much says it all.

[Caf]

I agree that this seems stupid. There is simply no way that Trump gets convicted in the Senate. I don't know if this is an attempt to force more testimony under oath that Dems hope they can use against him in the election, or just a misguided attempt to rile up the base. I have pretty much no faith in the House of Representatives at all (regardless of who is in charge) to hold themselves back from doing something ridiculous. That chamber has been completely off the rails for over a decade now.

Also - in the scheme of what is going on right now, the Clinton scandal seems downright quaint.

Ultimately it's really a win-win to the House Dems. If he gets convicted in the Senate, great. If he doesn't because purple state senators voted not to, that's great to them too.

[scoscox]

Imagine thinking this is good for house dems lol

Anyway...

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1176792222357999616?s=20
The UN releases another landmark report!! Even though they release these all the time and they have been wrong with every single prediction this is still treated with legitimacy and traumatizing our kids!! Don’t you just love it?

The IPCC who is behind this research has also been caught in the past fabricating and fudging their own data and reports. It’s all a joke. These people should be in jail

[scoscox]

https://media.giphy.com/media/FoqdU1Ro5xXxe/giphy.gif

[scoscox]

we have joe biden on video admitting to committing crimes while in office and the dems want to impeach trump for allegedly asking about it. once again, it's all a joke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/24/democrats-investigation-might-do-more-hurt-biden-than-trump/

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/462658-lets-get-real-democrats-were-first-to-enlist-ukraine-in-us-elections

it's all such a joke

[GoMuskies]

Ultimately it's really a win-win to the House Dems. If he gets convicted in the Senate, great. If he doesn't because purple state senators voted not to, that's great to them too.

It takes 67 to remove. They might let the purple-staters vote to remove. Like Manchin getting the free pass to vote to confirm Kavanaugh.

[Lamont Sanford]

we have joe biden on video admitting to committing crimes while in office and the dems want to impeach trump for allegedly asking about it. once again, it's all a joke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/24/democrats-investigation-might-do-more-hurt-biden-than-trump/

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/462658-lets-get-real-democrats-were-first-to-enlist-ukraine-in-us-elections

it's all such a joke

+1.

Freaking ridiculous. Our elected leaders continue to prove they are fucking worthless.

[Caf]

Imagine thinking this is good for house dems loll

I meant it seems great to them.

My only opinion on this is that it will seem like just another day come election time.

[XU 87]

Apparently, it's now grounds for impeachment for a sitting President to ask a foreign leader, "Could you look into whether our previous Vice-President committed bribery in your country while he was still Vice -President?

[GoMuskies]

Based on what I've seen so far...meh. I mean, it's not exactly great, but THIS is the straw that broke the camel's back?

[scoscox]

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/5-4-18%20Menendez%20joint%20letter%20to%20General%20Pr osecutor%20of%20Ukraine%20on%20Mueller%20investiga tion.pdf

letter sent last year by the democrats doing the exact same thing. it's all such a joke

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/462658-lets-get-real-democrats-were-first-to-enlist-ukraine-in-us-elections

and chris murphy actually threatened to withhold their aid if they allowed their prosecution of biden to continue. they should be prosecuted and thrown out of office by their own standards.

media is spinning this call as innapropriate or that it hurts trump somehow? how? and how is this not 100% worse for biden and the dems? we're supposed to be mad at the president trying to enforce the law and side with the people who've actually committed and admitted to crimes and are actively trying to cover it up? why would we do that? i don't understand how anyone is not on trump's side here. the media gaslighting of this is incredible

[bobbiemcgee]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/463100-gop-senator-on-whistleblower-complaint-theres-obviously-lots-thats-very

[scoscox]

Pretty weak statement all around on both sides. Basically hedging every bet he can. What a joke. “Republicans ought not... but dems also ought not...” strong take sasse

[xudash]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/463100-gop-senator-on-whistleblower-complaint-theres-obviously-lots-thats-very

Weak. What journalistic crap.

This is about Trump. But this also is about taking out Biden as a candidate.

The Far Left will see this as a victory by knocking out Biden from the race.

They’ll scorch the Democratic Party if they go the distance with this nonsense. Of course, if a political party is dumb enough to allow an idiot like AOC to have a large enough voice, it will get what it deserves.

[chico]

Right now the online oddsmakers have Trump being impeached at +300. This is for informational purposes only, because betting on things of this nature is illegal, which is kind of ironic if you think about it.

[GoMuskies]

Right now the online oddsmakers have Trump being impeached at +300. This is for informational purposes only, because betting on things of this nature is illegal, which is kind of ironic if you think about it.

Impeached or removed? If it's just impeached, I need to go get some of that action.

[STL_XUfan]

Right now the online oddsmakers have Trump being impeached at +300. This is for informational purposes only, because betting on things of this nature is illegal, which is kind of ironic if you think about it.

Trump's last grift as president is to bet heavy on impeachment and really turn into the slide.

[scoscox]

pelosi hasn't even begun any formal impeachment measures. it's not gonna happen.

[paulxu]

The regular course for this administration seems to follow a path:
I didn't do it.
I didn't do it.
Here's proof I didn't do it (which proves I did)
What's the big deal.
Deflect to new issue
Everyone forgets first one.

Followed it this time with the summary release of phone call.
We'll see if it works again.

[scoscox]

https://twitter.com/SchreckReports/status/1177187470984830977

[scoscox]

schiff making shit up to start the hearing and then says he was just doing parody. what a joke. the clown show continues.

[scoscox]

The regular course for this administration seems to follow a path:
I didn't do it.
I didn't do it.
Here's proof I didn't do it (which proves I did)
What's the big deal.
Deflect to new issue
Everyone forgets first one.

Followed it this time with the summary release of phone call.
We'll see if it works again.

what do you think he did Paul? i don't understand what people find objectionable honestly

[Caf]

The cover-up is always worse than the "crime". Nothing is going to come of the phone call itself. Time will tell if they lie about it or hide any information.

[scoscox]

Time will tell if they lie about it or hide any information.

schiff already lied about it. guy should be impeached

besides we they've already released the complaint, the transcript and the guy is gonna testify. not exactly a cover up. seems to be the opposite. trump is probably enjoying it

[scoscox]

the big point so far today being pushed is that the DNI went with the complaint to the white house first before taking it to congress. stop the presses

[bobbiemcgee]

Complaint filed that hen house was raided. Proper authority confirms hen house was raided. Farmer instead of forwarding to investigation decides to check with the Fox to see if he should forward complaint. Fox (spitting feathers) sez nothing to see here. Move on.

[Masterofreality]

schiff already lied about it. guy should be impeached

Just like Schiff lied about having “irrefutable evidence of collusion with Russia”.
He said that on “Meet the Press”. He didn’t. Never produced anything and was never called to account by Chuck “Demo Lobbyists Husband” Todd or anybody else in the MSM. Just BS.

[scoscox]

https://saraacarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/whistleblower_complaint_Against_POTUS_unclass.pdf

so schiff was actually sent the complaint directly in august and the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of anything. it all sounds legit to me!

[GoMuskies]

Unfortunately, Greta may be edged out for Time Person of the Year by the Whistleblower. Tough break kid!

[scoscox]

Complaint filed that hen house was raided. Proper authority confirms hen house was raided. Farmer instead of forwarding to investigation decides to check with the Fox to see if he should forward complaint. Fox (spitting feathers) sez nothing to see here. Move on.

except now we know the complaint was sent to "investigation" immediately. and on top of that the fox wasn't spitting feathers and the farmer denies anyone raided the hen house. and you guys wonder why pelosi didn't actually formally file for impeachment

[scoscox]

https://external-preview.redd.it/apLRuecOmMdOt0WWVE19ARcJZ9RPIEpOXZ6mB3nnQOs.gif?fo rmat=mp4&6d3e946d

[Masterofreality]

https://saraacarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/whistleblower_complaint_Against_POTUS_unclass.pdf

so schiff was actually sent the complaint directly in august and the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of anything. it all sounds legit to me!

There’s that tricky word again. “Credible”. The Dems sure like to use that one up. Just like Blasey Ford was so “credible” (but apparently not accurate) when it came to going after Kavanaugh or even citing her supposed witnesses.

When will this clown show end?

[Caf]

schiff already lied about it. guy should be impeached

besides we they've already released the complaint, the transcript and the guy is gonna testify. not exactly a cover up. seems to be the opposite. trump is probably enjoying it

That's why I didn't say it's a cover up and did say 'time will tell'. We get it you're a fan.

[paulxu]

what do you think he did Paul? i don't understand what people find objectionable honestly

I admit a lot of it is confusing.
Ukraine official said Trump wouldn't talk to them unless they agreed to talk about getting dirt on Biden. If holding up aid for that is true, that seems problematic.
I'm fascinated by something mentioned today.What was released was a summary of the call, not a transcript.
Post Nixon there is no taping in the White House.
But...there are people listening with headphones transcribing close to word-for-word the conversations.
That info is generally stored on White House servers. But these transcripts were put by direction onto a "secret" server, with other stuff.
Will be interesting to see if that is pursued to get something closer to a "transcript" than a summary.

To answer you question more directly, I don't think the office should be used for personal gain (all the emolument violations) or to encourage or participate with foreign governments to effect our elections. But that's just me.

[scoscox]

That's why I didn't say it's a cover up and did say 'time will tell'. We get it you're a fan.

i understand what you meant

[scoscox]

I admit a lot of it is confusing.
Ukraine official said Trump wouldn't talk to them unless they agreed to talk about getting dirt on Biden. If holding up aid for that is true, that seems problematic.
I'm fascinated by something mentioned today.What was released was a summary of the call, not a transcript.
Post Nixon there is no taping in the White House.
But...there are people listening with headphones transcribing close to word-for-word the conversations.
That info is generally stored on White House servers. But these transcripts were put by direction onto a "secret" server, with other stuff.
Will be interesting to see if that is pursued to get something closer to a "transcript" than a summary.

To answer you question more directly, I don't think the office should be used for personal gain (all the emolument violations) or to encourage or participate with foreign governments to effect our elections. But that's just me.

interesting. glad to hear your perspective.

a few points: https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1177200203377631233
the ukrainian official isn't actually a ukrainian official

"To answer you question more directly, I don't think the office should be used for personal gain (all the emolument violations) or to encourage or participate with foreign governments to effect our elections"

i've yet to see any concrete examples of these emoluments violations . maybe you can link a few examples.

i also don't think trump asking ukraine about the obvious and admitted corruption of joe biden constitutes election meddling. it is literally the presidents job to enforce the law as the executive branch. it'd be a dereliction of his duty not to look into, again the admitted, on video, corruption of one of the most powerful people in our country.

[scoscox]

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9

meanwhile, in china

[bjf123]

When will this clown show end?

Sadly, never. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Congressional “hearing” that was anything more than political grandstanding, regardless of party.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

i've yet to see any concrete examples of these emoluments violations . maybe you can link a few examples.

i also don't think trump asking ukraine about the obvious and admitted corruption of joe biden constitutes election meddling. it is literally the presidents job to enforce the law as the executive branch. it'd be a dereliction of his duty not to look into, again the admitted, on video, corruption of one of the most powerful people in our country.

I'm going to assume you don't know about the Trump hotel in Washington, leased from the federal government, that has a specific clause preventing any government official from profiting.
Biden's son was cleared and the investigation in Ukraine closed before any of this started. Trump has tried to reopen it with many misleading claims to help him politically. Also, his interest apparently was to try and build a case for a Manafort pardon and then it devolved into Biden dirt.

[scoscox]

I'm going to assume you don't know about the Trump hotel in Washington, leased from the federal government, that has a specific clause preventing any government official from profiting.
Biden's son was cleared and the investigation in Ukraine closed before any of this started. Trump has tried to reopen it with many misleading claims to help him politically. Also, his interest apparently was to try and build a case for a Manafort pardon and then it devolved into Biden dirt.

no i don't, that's why i asked for you to cite examples, so please enlighten me.

"biden's son was cleared", yes after biden pressured them under threat of withholding 1 billion dollars in aid to fire a prosecutor. that doesn't clear biden of wrongdoing in the least

[Caf]

The cover-up is always worse than the "crime". Nothing is going to come of the phone call itself. Time will tell if they lie about it or hide any information.

Pelosi on alleged concealing of Trump-Ukraine transcript: "This is a cover-up" (https://www.axios.com/nancy-pelosi-trump-ukraine-whistleblower-complaint-858a33c8-f82d-4c0d-a9cb-0417c31a1fc8.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic)

And here we go:


"I'll just read from the complaint, which is now public, but which I saw yesterday when it wasn't. The complaint states that the White House tried to lock down all records of the call, especially the word-for-word transcript. That gave the whistleblower reason to believe that they, the White House, understood the gravity of what transpired in that call. The complaint reports, a quote, "repeated abuse of an electronic records system designed to store classified, sensitive national security information," which the White House used to hide information of a political nature. This is a cover-up. This is a cover-up."

When asked if Maguire had good reason to delay sending the whistleblower report to Congress, Pelosi was unequivocal: "No, he broke the law."

[paulxu]

no i don't, that's why i asked for you to cite examples, so please enlighten me.

"biden's son was cleared", yes after biden pressured them under threat of withholding 1 billion dollars in aid to fire a prosecutor. that doesn't clear biden of wrongdoing in the least

I cited you an example. The Trump hotel in the old Post Office building.
I don't think you have your timeline on Ukraine correct.

[STL_XUfan]

Well now he sending out not so veiled threats against the whistle blower and others in the intelligence community for an action that his own Director of National Intelligence believes was proper:


“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”

[scoscox]

I cited you an example. The Trump hotel in the old Post Office building.
I don't think you have your timeline on Ukraine correct.

"And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time."

Direct quote from biden. the prosecutor was fired days before he was scheduled to interview hunter biden.

[paulxu]

It's a little more complex than that.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-25/here-s-what-we-know-about-joe-and-hunter-biden-in-ukraine

The UK was involved, as we were in getting the Ukraine to address corruption.

The prosecutor was corrupt and I haven't seen that about him going to interview Biden's son.

[scoscox]

"After Joe Biden became vice president in 2009, Hunter, a lawyer by training, pursued business opportunities with foreign parties, often in ways that intersected with his father’s work."

sounds totally appropriate

[xudash]

Sadly, never. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Congressional “hearing” that was anything more than political grandstanding, regardless of party.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My, we are polarized.

[bobbiemcgee]

"After Joe Biden became vice president in 2009, Hunter, a lawyer by training, pursued business opportunities with foreign parties, often in ways that intersected with his father’s work."

sounds totally appropriate

Yup, sounds like Iskanka and Jr.

[scoscox]

Yup, sounds like Iskanka and Jr.

lol nice one you really got her. i'm not aware of ivanka or jr sitting on the boards of any foreign companies.

btw ivanka is by far the most liberal influence in trump's administration. people trying to take her out would be hurting their own agenda

[Mrs. Garrett]

lol nice one you really got her. i'm not aware of ivanka or jr sitting on the boards of any foreign companies.

btw ivanka is by far the most liberal influence in trump's administration. people trying to take her out would be hurting their own agenda

Her overwhelming influence can be seen in Trump's Supreme Court appointments.

[scoscox]

Her overwhelming influence can be seen in Trump's Supreme Court appointments.

just because she hasn't totally dominated his agenda doesn't mean she isn't influencing him, obviously, but by all means, keep pushing her out

[GoMuskies]

Her overwhelming influence can be seen in Trump's Supreme Court appointments.

If so, well done Ivanka. Two excellent choices.

[bobbiemcgee]

lol nice one you really got her. i'm not aware of ivanka or jr sitting on the boards of any foreign companies.

btw ivanka is by far the most liberal influence in trump's administration. people trying to take her out would be hurting their own agenda

Her Chinese patents suddenly got approved (America First yippee!) after the inauguration and the Saudi's donated 100m to her women's initiative. She has obviously benefitted.

[bobbiemcgee]

If so, well done Ivanka. Two excellent choices.

Nobody gave a damn what Ivanka had to say.

[noteggs]

Curious if Biden gets elected and Republicans take the house, are we going to hear impeachment from day 1 and start investigations into the Bidens dealings with Ukraine and China? I certainly hope not but wouldn’t blame the Republicans either.

What bothers me most about the last election is we finally had an outsider but never got a chance to see how they could change Washington. Sure some will say he has done plenty but that’s not the change I’m talking about. From day 1 the Washington establishment made sure he didn’t succeed. Trump didn’t help himself of course but don’t think it would’ve been any different with another outsider. Now a lot people saying let’s bring in 70 something 40 year career politician. Shame

Interesting editorial on Joe and Hunter.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/23/why-is-most-of-the-media-circling-the-wagons-to-protect-hunter-biden/

[GoMuskies]

Nobody gave a damn what Ivanka had to say.

I'm sure that's true. But whoever it was that picked those two did excellent work.

[scoscox]

Her Chinese patents suddenly got approved (America First yippee!) after the inauguration and the Saudi's donated 100m to her women's initiative. She has obviously benefitted.

so why not investigate that instead of this farce of a hearing?

[bobbiemcgee]

so why not investigate that instead of this farce of a hearing?

Trump sez the Whistleblower is a treasonous spy and implied execution. I assume you agree.

[scoscox]

Trump sez the Whistleblower is a treasonous spy and implied execution. I assume you agree.

why would you assume that? no i don't think that. why don't you answer my question?

[GoMuskies]

Based on the memo, I'd go with weasel who deserves firing. Potato/potato.

[bobbiemcgee]

Based on the memo, I'd go with weasel who deserves firing. Potato/potato.

The WB was a CIA agent detailed to the WH, doing exactly what his /her job was. American patriot.

[GoMuskies]

As I said, Thurnberg got fucked by the whistleblower. Tine has already forgotten her name.

[scoscox]

As I said, Thurnberg got fucked by the whistleblower. Tine has already forgotten her name.

lol good call

[bobbiemcgee]

They'll both get 3m book deals, real dumbasses.

[scoscox]

No one said they’re dumb

[chico]

Impeached or removed? If it's just impeached, I need to go get some of that action.

It's only that he be impeached, but before the end of his first term.

WILL D TRUMP BE IMPEACHED BEFORE 2020 ELECTIONS?
Wager cut off: 2019 5th October 12:15 PM

[paulxu]

It's only that he be impeached, but before the end of his first term.

WILL D TRUMP BE IMPEACHED BEFORE 2020 ELECTIONS?
Wager cut off: 2019 5th October 12:15 PM

WWND (what would Nigel do)

[boozehound]

Curious if Biden gets elected and Republicans take the house, are we going to hear impeachment from day 1 and start investigations into the Bidens dealings with Ukraine and China? I certainly hope not but wouldn’t blame the Republicans either.

What bothers me most about the last election is we finally had an outsider but never got a chance to see how they could change Washington. Sure some will say he has done plenty but that’s not the change I’m talking about. From day 1 the Washington establishment made sure he didn’t succeed. Trump didn’t help himself of course but don’t think it would’ve been any different with another outsider. Now a lot people saying let’s bring in 70 something 40 year career politician. Shame

Interesting editorial on Joe and Hunter.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/23/why-is-most-of-the-media-circling-the-wagons-to-protect-hunter-biden/

Are you serious? Do you really think his problem is that he is a Washington outsider? Trump's problem isn't that he is an outsider, it's that he isn't even minimally qualified to hold office, nor does he seem to care much about that fact.

Trump was his own worst enemy from day 1. The guy never bothered to competently staff his Cabinet and ran the few competent cabinet level advisers that he had out of the building. He made no effort to avoid the appearance of conflicts with his business. They didn't even try to apply window dressing to appear to be a functional administration.

The problem isn't that he was an outsider, it's that he IS THE WRONG PERSON TO EVER BE PRESIDENT ON A LEVEL THAT FEW OTHER SERIOUS CANDIDATES COULD EVER APPROACH.

[bleedXblue]

Are you serious? Do you really think his problem is that he is a Washington outsider? Trump's problem isn't that he is an outsider, it's that he isn't even minimally qualified to hold office, nor does he seem to care much about that fact.

Trump was his own worst enemy from day 1. The guy never bothered to competently staff his Cabinet and ran the few competent cabinet level advisers that he had out of the building. He made no effort to avoid the appearance of conflicts with his business. They didn't even try to apply window dressing to appear to be a functional administration.

The problem isn't that he was an outsider, it's that he IS THE WRONG PERSON TO EVER BE PRESIDENT ON A LEVEL THAT FEW OTHER SERIOUS CANDIDATES COULD EVER APPROACH.

Yeah, we all see what happens when "qualified people" get elected.........this is a joke isn't it?

Washington is colossally f^&ed up. What we've had the last 20 years or so is people who've been in office who don't get anything done b/c of all the political infighting.

Its refreshing to have someone who ISNT a career politician. Who doesn't care about who he pisses off.

Trump could win in 2020 by the largest margin in the history of presidential races if he could change his rhetoric and style. But, he cant help himself. he is so over the top arrogant and full of himself that he is his own worst enemy.

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe Pence is the Whistleblower:

"Foreign donors and certainly foreign governments cannot participate in the American political process"

[paulxu]

Is that why his wife wouldn't kiss him on election night?

[JTG]

Are you serious? Do you really think his problem is that he is a Washington outsider? Trump's problem isn't that he is an outsider, it's that he isn't even minimally qualified to hold office, nor does he seem to care much about that fact.

Trump was his own worst enemy from day 1. The guy never bothered to competently staff his Cabinet and ran the few competent cabinet level advisers that he had out of the building. He made no effort to avoid the appearance of conflicts with his business. They didn't even try to apply window dressing to appear to be a functional administration.

The problem isn't that he was an outsider, it's that he IS THE WRONG PERSON TO EVER BE PRESIDENT ON A LEVEL THAT FEW OTHER SERIOUS CANDIDATES COULD EVER APPROACH.
Except he's still better than Hillary Clinton.

[bobbiemcgee]

Is that why his wife wouldn't kiss him on election night?

He had lunch with a 80 yr. old female reporter without her.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Is this only impeachable because Biden is potentially running against Trump next year?

Said another way: If you substitute John Kerry into this story in place of Joe Biden... did Trump still commit an impeachable offense?

If not, does anyone else see the massive loophole this creates?

[Muskie in dayton]

Is this only impeachable because Biden is potentially running against Trump next year?

Said another way: If you substitute John Kerry into this story in place of Joe Biden... did Trump still commit an impeachable offense?

If not, does anyone else see the massive loophole this creates?

The issue is he’s using his power for self-interest, not the interest of the country. If in your example that were the case with Kerry, then the answer is yes. Ironically that’s what the Clintons were doing (using their power for self-interest) and the the reason he called Hillary a crook.

[scoscox]

How is it self interested to ask to look into this? Biden was potentially engaged in high level corruption. It’s in the country’s interest to find that out. It is quite literally his job to do this

[xudash]

How is it self interested to ask to look into this? Biden was potentially engaged in high level corruption. It’s in the country’s interest to find that out. It is quite literally his job to do this

Exactly.

[bjf123]

It all depends on which side of the aisle you’re on. Does anyone really think the Democrats and media wouldn’t be going apoplectic if Trump or Pence said exactly the same thing as Biden if one of their kids was being investigated by the Ukraine?

The Democrats want Secretary of State Pompeo to provide documents so they can start their “impeachment inquiry”. What if he decided to destroy all the documents claiming they just had to do with wedding plans for his kid? They’d be screaming for him to be locked up.

With Biden and Hillary, it’s “Nothing to see here. Move along.” The hypocrisy by both parties is ridiculous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Muskie in dayton]

How is it self interested to ask to look into this? Biden was potentially engaged in high level corruption. It’s in the country’s interest to find that out. It is quite literally his job to do this

First, it wasn’t “high level corruption”. It was a potential conflict of interest in the position Hunter Biden held. It was also 3 years in the past. Only someone who is completely biased would believe he was acting in national interest.

[scoscox]

The more I hear about this the more disgusting it is. The fact that this was a cia agent, the cia just changed their standards for whistle blowers last month to allow hearsay, Schiff has known about it since August, pelosi has been changing house rules to disallow minority dissent. It all seems very pre coordinated and it does not reflect well on the intelligence agencies.

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1177685616957558784?s=20

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1177692078119280641?s=20

[scoscox]

First, it wasn’t “high level corruption”. It was a potential conflict of interest in the position Hunter Biden held. It was also 3 years in the past. Only someone who is completely biased would believe he was acting in national interest.


No just getting his son a 600000 job and trying to withhold 1 billion in aid and meddling with the sovereignty of foreign countries. Just some light corruption. Sure you wouldn’t be concerned if Tiffany trump somehow lands on the board of directors of a Saudi oil company, gets investigated by their government and trump extorted them. You’d be fine with it I’m sure.

You don’t think investigating corruption by a Vice President is in the national interest? In what world? Did you think the Russian investigation was in the national interest?

[Muskie in dayton]

No just getting his son a 600000 job and trying to withhold 1 billion in aid and meddling with the sovereignty of foreign countries. Just some light corruption. Sure you wouldn’t be concerned if Tiffany trump somehow lands on the board of directors of a Saudi oil company, gets investigated by their government and trump extorted them. You’d be fine with it I’m sure.

You don’t think investigating corruption by a Vice President is in the national interest? In what world? Did you think the Russian investigation was in the national interest?

Your account is a little different than the facts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2019/09/25/heres-what-happened-with-the-bidens-and-ukraine/amp/

Don’t presume you have any idea what I’d think. I don’t prescribe to pathetic partisan ideas and instead choose to use my own brain. And no I don’t think this Ukraine thing or the Russia election meddling was at all in the National interest. It’s all disgusting. Just like Trump.

[bobbiemcgee]

So somebody in the Ukraine decided to hire a Yale-educated attorney for 50 k a month. Would you take the deal? Is this any different then Jared Kushner getting a 400 million "investment" from a Chinese Co. for his failed 666 bldg. a few months after Trump gets elected when no US Bank would touch it? What's the monthly interest on 400 million?

[Blue Blooded-05]

The issue is he’s using his power for self-interest, not the interest of the country. If in your example that were the case with Kerry, then the answer is yes. Ironically that’s what the Clintons were doing (using their power for self-interest) and the the reason he called Hillary a crook.

I wasn’t commenting on the the offense itself (or potential offense, depending which side you’re on). I was commenting on the loophole that gets exposed if Trump is actually impeached over this.

The President is head of the Executive Branch of the government, whose literal job description is to enforce the laws of this nation. If a sitting President gets impeached over this, a precedent gets set that would essentially give complete diplomatic immunity to any future Presidential candidate.

Take Trump and Biden out of this and look at the bigger picture. It’s kinda scary. If Trump loses next year, all Mike Pence has to do is immediately announce his candidacy for 2024 and then go out and make as many shady business deals as possible. Who is going to stop him? Not the new head of the Executive Branch of the government.

[scoscox]

Well i guess if Forbes reported it it must be true!! They’ve never been known to carry water for the politicians. It was just a coincidence that there was a push to eliminate this particular prosecutor just as he was trying to investigate hunter Biden. Just a coincidence surely because Forbes said so! You’re thinking for yourself by mindlessly accepting the official narrative from Forbes!

No partisan thinking here but trump is disgusting...

[noteggs]

I don’t know where investigative journalism is these days. I’ll have to side with “Scoscox” on this one. The only MSM investigative journalist really looking into this is John Solomon from The Hill. He might be partisan (honestly I don’t know) but seems like a straight shooter. However, seen him on Fox so that might be disqualify for some.

You hear other outlets say things like the Forbes article (posted here) and use them as facts, “The overlap between the vice president and his son raised concerns over a potential conflict of interest. The Obama White House said there was no issue with Hunter Biden’s work, and that no conflict of interest existed.” That is not much of a reason not to investigate or take as gospel. I’m not saying Biden did or didn’t do anything wrong. Just think it’s worth looking into. If Bill Maher has concerns about this, think others on the left would be.

Here is John’s last article about the Bidens.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

[paulxu]

Here's 300 national security professionals with an opinion:

https://nationalsecurityaction.org/newsroom/national-security-professionals-impeachment

[scoscox]

Not surprising that 300 former intelligence beaurocrats want him gone. They clearly always have. They’ve been leaking stuff constantly and yet again this was another leak from an intelligence officer. They can pound sand for all I care

[Caf]

I wasn’t commenting on the the offense itself (or potential offense, depending which side you’re on). I was commenting on the loophole that gets exposed if Trump is actually impeached over this.

The President is head of the Executive Branch of the government, whose literal job description is to enforce the laws of this nation. If a sitting President gets impeached over this, a precedent gets set that would essentially give complete diplomatic immunity to any future Presidential candidate.

Take Trump and Biden out of this and look at the bigger picture. It’s kinda scary. If Trump loses next year, all Mike Pence has to do is immediately announce his candidacy for 2024 and then go out and make as many shady business deals as possible. Who is going to stop him? Not the new head of the Executive Branch of the government.

Trump did say they should look at Pence's discussions with Ukraine. Maybe they should to prevent this scenario.

[paulxu]

Maybe they're concerned for our country?

Nah...that can't be it.

[scoscox]

Maybe they think they are I just don’t care what 300 random intelligence bureaucrats think. People can scrounge together petitions like this for everything. There were an appalling number of law professors who petitioned against Kavanaugh despite basically all evidence pointing to his innocence. Just isn’t compelling when you know it’s bs

[noteggs]

Here's 300 national security professionals with an opinion:

https://nationalsecurityaction.org/newsroom/national-security-professionals-impeachment

This does seem rather impressive. Unfortunately, after you do a little digging into who the National Security Action group is made of, you might have a different impression on the what this may mean.

The two chairs are Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan.

Rhodes: from 2009 to 2017, he was President Obama’s national security communications and speechwriter.

Jake Sullivan was the senior policy advisor for Hillary Clinton.

Some of Advisory Council’s are Barbara Boxer and Tom Daschle.

Also included is Samantha Power, the same Obama’s UN ambassador who was unmasking Trump’s campaign officials at high rates.

This by itself doesn’t mean the 300 national security professionals shouldn’t have an opinion. However, makes you wonder.

[scoscox]

This does seem rather impressive. Unfortunately, after you do a little digging into who the National Security Action group is made of, you might have a different impression on the what this may mean.

The two chairs are Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan.

Rhodes: from 2009 to 2017, he was President Obama’s national security communications and speechwriter.

Jake Sullivan was the senior policy advisor for Hillary Clinton.

Some of Advisory Council’s are Barbara Boxer and Tom Daschle.

Also included is Samantha Power, the same Obama’s UN ambassador who was unmasking Trump’s campaign officials at high rates.

This by itself doesn’t mean the 300 national security professionals shouldn’t have an opinion. However, makes you wonder.

lol wow, what a joke

[Muskie in dayton]

No partisan thinking here but trump is disgusting...

ItÂ’s only partisan to someone who is partisan. Go back and look at my posts if you think IÂ’m partisan. I also think Biden, Clinton, W, and pretty much every politician is disgusting. TheyÂ’re crooked pieces of shit that care only about personal gain. They prioritize party over country. All Republicans and Democrats should be tried for treason.

Look, you can like TrumpÂ’s politics - hell I agree with the majority of what heÂ’s done. But you canÂ’t say heÂ’s anything but a disgusting piece of shit as a person. And getting back to the topic, his phone conversation with the Ukraine leader is a disgusting piece of shit move. The DemocratsÂ’ constant witch hunt to impeach him is a disgusting piece of shit move. None of these things help solve our countryÂ’s problems.

[scoscox]

ItÂ’s only partisan to someone who is partisan. Go back and look at my posts if you think IÂ’m partisan. I also think Biden, Clinton, W, and pretty much every politician is disgusting. TheyÂ’re crooked pieces of shit that care only about personal gain. They prioritize party over country. All Republicans and Democrats should be tried for treason.

Look, you can like TrumpÂ’s politics - hell I agree with the majority of what heÂ’s done. But you canÂ’t say heÂ’s anything but a disgusting piece of shit as a person. And getting back to the topic, his phone conversation with the Ukraine leader is a disgusting piece of shit move. The DemocratsÂ’ constant witch hunt to impeach him is a disgusting piece of shit move. None of these things help solve our countryÂ’s problems.

so you think all these people should be tried for treason because they're such colossal pieces of shit, but you're upset that trump asked ukraine to look into biden's fairly overt corruption? how does that work? isn't he doing what you want?

[Muskie in dayton]

so you think all these people should be tried for treason because they're such colossal pieces of shit, but you're upset that trump asked ukraine to look into biden's fairly overt corruption? how does that work? isn't he doing what you want?

so you think that I want partisan politics because I hate partisan politics? How does that work? Sheesh.

[scoscox]

so you think that I want partisan politics because I hate partisan politics? How does that work? Sheesh.

again, it's ridiculous to associate the president investigating corruption with partisan politics. it's his job as executive. biden is not a presidential nominee and likely won't be. he's hardly a rival. even if he were, he isn't exempt from the law because he's running for president. so far all i know is that you want every politician to be tried for treason, so please let me know how you see that playing out. after you've successfully tried them all for treason, who will govern in their place? how will they govern? what will be their philosophy? will they also be tried for treason after a certain period of time?

[paulxu]

Not that I think anyone will pay attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-ukraine-facts-are-clear-but-does-truth-still-matter/2019/09/27/6bcaa38e-e134-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

[Muskie in dayton]

after you've successfully tried them all for treason, who will govern in their place? how will they govern? what will be their philosophy? will they also be tried for treason after a certain period of time?

1) Independents
2) solely in the best interests of the United States of America
3) find common ground with other elected officials and act swiftly in the best interest of the American people
4) only if they prioritize self or partisan interests over the greater good of the country

Thanks for letting me revel in my dream world for a bit. Now it’s back to reality of our disgusting president and disgusting two party political system.

[Muskie in dayton]

again, it's ridiculous to associate the president investigating corruption with partisan politics. it's his job as executive. biden is not a presidential nominee and likely won't be. he's hardly a rival.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. We clearly have different beliefs of Trump’s intentions and the importance to our country of focusing on this. And now you’ve convinced yourself that Biden is “hardly a rival”. Wow.

So how about those Muskies this year?

[X-man]

Not that I think anyone will pay attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-ukraine-facts-are-clear-but-does-truth-still-matter/2019/09/27/6bcaa38e-e134-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

Certainly not those who believe in "alternative facts".

[boozehound]

Yeah, we all see what happens when "qualified people" get elected.........this is a joke isn't it?

Washington is colossally f^&ed up. What we've had the last 20 years or so is people who've been in office who don't get anything done b/c of all the political infighting.

Its refreshing to have someone who ISNT a career politician. Who doesn't care about who he pisses off.

Trump could win in 2020 by the largest margin in the history of presidential races if he could change his rhetoric and style. But, he cant help himself. he is so over the top arrogant and full of himself that he is his own worst enemy.

I'm entertained by the 'outsider fallacy' that so intoxicates people. I'd actually rather return to the days where most of our Presidents had prior executive experience as Governors. Running the United States of America is a complicated job. I think it helps to have some relevant experience. Often as a Governor you get that experience, and you learn how compromise works and how to get things done, even when parties disagree. I think that was part of the problem with Obama, and definitely a major issue with Trump. Outside of Trump's glaring personality flaws he did not seem to have any appreciation for the magnitude of the Presidency which has led to a chaotic administration almost from day 1. Basic staffing and information flow were major issues for this administration which we really haven't seen before. I attribute that to a lack of preparedness and a lack of relevant experience.

In my opinion the hyper-partisan state we find ourselves in is more related to things not getting done than career politicians - they are just a symptom of the larger problem which is (IMO) far too much money in (and around) politics. Shut off the money and influence pipeline and it would go a long way.

[Juice]

I'm entertained by the 'outsider fallacy' that so intoxicates people. I'd actually rather return to the days where most of our Presidents had prior executive experience as Governors. Running the United States of America is a complicated job. I think it helps to have some relevant experience. Often as a Governor you get that experience, and you learn how compromise works and how to get things done, even when parties disagree. I think that was part of the problem with Obama, and definitely a major issue with Trump. Outside of Trump's glaring personality flaws he did not seem to have any appreciation for the magnitude of the Presidency which has led to a chaotic administration almost from day 1. Basic staffing and information flow were major issues for this administration which we really haven't seen before. I attribute that to a lack of preparedness and a lack of relevant experience.

In my opinion the hyper-partisan state we find ourselves in is more related to things not getting done than career politicians - they are just a symptom of the larger problem which is (IMO) far too much money in (and around) politics. Shut off the money and influence pipeline and it would go a long way.

Republicans nominated one of the most experienced senators alive at the time and a former governor during the Obama years. Both were resoundingly rejected by voters. Voters used to care about experience. Now they want "outsiders" or someone isn't part of the political machine. I'm not saying Obama or Trump actually meet that criteria but that's what Trump ran on.

[scoscox]

And of course trump beat Hillary Clinton, former senator, First Lady, and Secretary of State. People clearly abhor whatever has been the status quo in Washington or at the very least see something wrong with it

[kmcrawfo]

And of course trump beat Hillary Clinton, former senator, First Lady, and Secretary of State. People clearly abhor whatever has been the status quo in Washington or at the very least see something wrong with it

It is interesting that the last two presidents our country has elected historically would be considered the least qualified and least experienced individuals to ever hold the office. One, I believe, was a one-term Senator with no executive experience. The other, I believe, had no political experience whatsoever. One could argue the benefits and detriments of both situations.

[Caf]

If you think this President is crazy, just wait until you see the next one.

[Mrs. Garrett]

If you think this President is crazy, just wait until you see the next one.

Nope. Nobody running is worse than what we have now.

[X-man]

Nope. Nobody running is worse than what we have now.

Actually the man is literally disintegrating before our very eyes. I almost feel sorry for him.....almost.