Politics Thread

[Xville]

You really believe democrats or people who don’t believe everything from the Republican Party are cancer and they should be eradicated from this planet? Do you really believe that or did you pick that up from somewhere? How would you propose eradicating between 100-200 million people?

My suggestion to all who disagree with Lou is to just stop responding to his nonsense. I’ve been the biggest perpetrator, I admit it, but trust me it’s not worth it. He’s beyond gone and a very sick individual. Do whatever you want it’s a free
Country but my suggestion from someone that’s spent way too much time paying attention to his nonsense. Just put him on ignore and move on

[ArizonaXUGrad]

What in God's name do Democrats have to offer right now? I'm sorry if you have your head buried in the dirt and can't see all the damage they've done to this country, and leftists in general throughout the world. You people are like cancer, and must be eradicated.

BTW, AZ, I love how you do your drive by comments, and then leave the thread for several weeks.

How did all of you and your auditor buddies miss all the corruption being unearthed by Musk? Are you all in on the take? What an embarrassing and pathetic profession to be associated with right now.

You have mental problems. I actually voted Trump, that by no means lessens your clear lack of knowledge as it pertains to the award and use of federal grants.

When you post likening a large segment of the population to a cancer that requires eradication then yes, you are the problem. I have zero issue speaking the things I believe out loud, would you do the same about eradicating 75M Americans? How can any man of god even think that without a massive amount of shame.

[XU_Lou]

You have mental problems. I actually voted Trump, that by no means lessens your clear lack of knowledge as it pertains to the award and use of federal grants.

When you post likening a large segment of the population to a cancer that requires eradication then yes, you are the problem. I have zero issue speaking the things I believe out loud, would you do the same about eradicating 75M Americans? How can any man of god even think that without a massive amount of shame.

Actually, it's just the opposite. It is YOU that has the problem with other people's viewpoints. I've never said a word to you, but you've chosen to take several pop shots at me over the last several months. If you want to challenge or debate me, that's perfectly fine. But you chose snark and derision. It was you that made it personal, so go fuck off!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Actually, it's just the opposite. It is YOU that has the problem with other people's viewpoints. I've never said a word to you, but you've chosen to take several pop shots at me over the last several months. If you want to challenge or debate me, that's perfectly fine. But you chose snark and derision. It was you that made it personal, so go fuck off!

Was it I who insisted on the eradication of millions of Americans? Was it I who believes on one view is correct at the expense of any opposing voice?

I don’t make you post anything, I merely got out of your foot’s way as it entered your mouth. Take a bite out of an accountability sandwich.

[XU_Lou]

Was it I who insisted on the eradication of millions of Americans? Was it I who believes on one view is correct at the expense of any opposing voice?

I don’t make you post anything, I merely got out of your foot’s way as it entered your mouth. Take a bite out of an accountability sandwich.

Get over it Ville Junior, it was fucking hyperbole.

You and Ville have a pretty fertile imagination. I wasn't referring to the brainwashed voters, I was talking about the elected tyrants.

[XU_Lou]

Was it I who insisted on the eradication of millions of Americans? Was it I who believes on one view is correct at the expense of any opposing voice?

I don’t make you post anything, I merely got out of your foot’s way as it entered your mouth. Take a bite out of an accountability sandwich.

BTW, you still didn't answer the original question from earlier that got your panties in a wad. What exactly do the Dems have to offer right now? LOL - you just demonstrated absolutely nothing! Even a lib like you pinched their nose and voted for Trump.

[waggy]

Same as trump you forgot to mention. Think you meant Billion
.

No it's not the same. And unfortunately it's trillions.

[Xville]

No it's not the same. And unfortunately it's trillions.

The federal debt rose by about the same amount during Trump's time in office. So, yes it is about the same.

If you want to argue that you don't like where Bidebn's money went vs Trump's then ok, but in the end, I'm sure there was a lot of money wasted by both administrations.

[bjf123]

The federal debt rose by about the same amount during Trump's time in office. So, yes it is about the same.

If you want to argue that you don't like where Bidebn's money went vs Trump's then ok, but in the end, I'm sure there was a lot of money wasted by both administrations.

Agreed. Both parties have wasted money for decades because no one was really looking. At least this administration is trying to do something about it.


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[hoopster68]

Agreed. Both parties have wasted money for decades because no one was really looking. At least this administration is trying to do something about it.


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By continuing the tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% and corporations is "this administration. . .trying to do something about it"? More bluff from The Trumpster and the weaklings in the Rethuglican caucus!

[Strange Brew]

By continuing the tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% and corporations is "this administration. . .trying to do something about it"? More bluff from The Trumpster and the weaklings in the Rethuglican caucus!

I believe (could be wrong on the exact number) the Feds are projected to extract 5.1T in taxes for last year. You’re going to have to explain why the Fed Gov’t needs more. Remember, that does not include State & Local taxes.

[hoopster68]

I believe (could be wrong on the exact number) the Feds are projected to extract 5.1T in taxes for last year. You’re going to have to explain why the Fed Gov’t needs more. Remember, that does not include State & Local taxes.

SB: Yours is a very fair question. My explanation is that the US, with 335M +/- people has major obligations: defense, social welfare, infrastructure, etc., etc. Numerous Congress' led by both parties have spent more than the Treasure takes in (Clinton was the last Prexy to have a budget surplus). Since Reagan the average taxes for individuals and corporations has declined resulting in deficits almost every year. The Trump tax cuts add significantly to the deficit over ten years. It is only "common sense" as the president likes to say to ask the top earners to pay more while proposing cuts to spending. Unfortunately I don't see the Rethuglican caucus able to accept such a compromise; some members are so afraid of being primaried by even more extreme candidates that they've moved away from responsible fiscal policies. Speaker Johnson faces a tough week; doubt the Dems will bail him out. Rethuglicans created this fiscal crisis and soon they will own it.

[Xville]

SB: Yours is a very fair question. My explanation is that the US, with 335M +/- people has major obligations: defense, social welfare, infrastructure, etc., etc. Numerous Congress' led by both parties have spent more than the Treasure takes in (Clinton was the last Prexy to have a budget surplus). Since Reagan the average taxes for individuals and corporations has declined resulting in deficits almost every year. The Trump tax cuts add significantly to the deficit over ten years. It is only "common sense" as the president likes to say to ask the top earners to pay more while proposing cuts to spending. Unfortunately I don't see the Rethuglican caucus able to accept such a compromise; some members are so afraid of being primaried by even more extreme candidates that they've moved away from responsible fiscal policies. Speaker Johnson faces a tough week; doubt the Dems will bail him out. Rethuglicans created this fiscal crisis and soon they will own it.

While I agree with some of what you said here, it is simply disingenuous to say that the Republicans created this fiscal crisis and own it. Every politician and both parties created this mess and "own it." This mess has been going on for decades thru numerous administrations on both sides of the aisle. They all share the blame from pet projects at the extremes to misallocation of funds on the "bright side." Pointing fingers at one side is something that Lou does, lets collectively be better than that.

[GoMuskies]

The top earners pay plenty IMO. I think there's a tweak here and there that could be made for top earners to pay a LITTLE bit more, but 37% is pretty substantial. I feel like it used to be 39 or 39.5%? That would be fine. And I could also see having the highest earners resume paying SS tax after a SUBSTANTIAL donut (like stop paying SS portion of FICA from current $176,100 limit up to $500k or $750k when they'd resume paying again), but overall I think under the current system high earners can certainly say with a straight face that they pay their fair share. There's a substantial group who pay nothing, and I think that's a bit of a dangerous situation, with that group really having ZERO skin in the game and no reason to care what the government spends its money on.

[paulxu]

There's a substantial group who pay nothing, and I think that's a bit of a dangerous situation, with that group really having ZERO skin in the game and no reason to care what the government spends its money on.

That also applies to some of our largest corporations, and others like farmers/oil companies we actually give tax credits to. Should be some balance somewhere. As noted above, Clinton was able to achieve a surplus.

[Strange Brew]

Apple just announced 20,000 US jobs and $500B in investment due to Chineese tariffs. That’s a lot of new taxes coming to the Feds and the States.

[bjf123]

As noted above, Clinton was able to achieve a surplus.

With a Republican House led by Newt Gingrich where both sides made concessions. What a novel concept! Neither side wants to make concessions today to appease their lunatic fringes. They have to beat down the other side of the aisle. What’s the result? Not a damned thing. Meanwhile, the bureaucracy continues to grow unchecked throwing more money down the proverbial toilet.


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[paulxu]

The UN passed a resolution today condemning the war in Ukraine and calling for a return of Ukraine's territory.

Russia, North Korea, Iran...and the United States voted against the resolution.

MAGA.

[xubrew]

Read the idiot's Xpost. Demands a response,from every federal emplyees, and if he doesn't get one, it's a resignation.
Of course it's going out from OPM; who earlier had said there was no requirement ever to respond to their emails.
And some departments are telling their people to ignore the emails.

Children let loose in our government.
(for the unenlightened, soldiers are federal employees.)

On its face, this doesn't seem THAT outrageous to me. Perhaps his approach is a little over-abrasive, but I would actually consider it a good idea for a new supervisor to meet with everyone, ask them to explain what it is they do, and ask what a typical week is like for them. Now, I also think it's kind of stupid to just start firing everyone. Identifying things that need to be done that they can do seems a little more sensible than just canning everybody. You may figure out that you need them back later on. But, asking them to sum up what they do seems like a sensible thing for a new boss to do.

Now, it's fair to ask why Elon Musk is that new boss and why he suddenly has this type of access and authority?? Sure. I think it's a little strange that he was given the role that he was given. But to take issue with someone who's new to being in charge that simply wants to know what everyone does seems a little overly sensitive to me.

[paulxu]

Natalie Bara, president of the FBI Agents Association, wrote in an internal newsletter to members sent Sunday before Bongino’s selection was announced that Patel had agreed during a January meeting with her that the FBI deputy director “should continue to be an on-board, active Special Agent as has been the case for 117 years for many compelling reasons, including operational expertise and experience, as well as the trust of our Special Agent population.”

Not sure a let-go Fox personality pod caster fits that promise. Then again, why would you ever trust Kash Patel. You need to be smarter than that.

[xubrew]

The UN passed a resolution today condemning the war in Ukraine and calling for a return of Ukraine's territory.

Russia, North Korea, Iran...and the United States voted against the resolution.

MAGA.

Yeah, we need to be condemning this. How much we should involve ourselves is fair to debate, but to not even condemn the invasion of a sovereign nation by Russia is absurd. If you're not condemning it, then it's as though you're condoning it.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure who's more excited about Trump being President at this point, Lou or paul. It seems to give both of them a reason to get up in the morning.

[paulxu]

Now, it's fair to ask why Elon Musk is that new boss and why he suddenly has this type of access and authority?? Sure. I think it's a little strange that he was given the role that he was given. But to take issue with someone who's new to being in charge that simply wants to know what everyone does seems a little overly sensitive to me.

In a court filing by the government, it notes Musk has NO authority to make decisions, and he is not part of DOGE, or it's administrator.
OPM had earlier sent an email to all government employees that there was no requirement to respond to their emails.
Can you imagine the confusion of 2+ million federal workers that are threatened with automatic resignation if the fail to answer.
Would you want to work for that sort of organization?

Plus, many agencies in the government (including the Judiciary Branch) are telling their employees to ignore the request.
I have nothing against new people. I would only like to see some experience in critical positions, and some coordination.
But they are following the Bannon playbook of flooding the zone with shit. And it's not a good way to run the government.

[xubrew]

Can you imagine the confusion of 2+ million federal workers that are threatened with automatic resignation if the fail to answer.
Would you want to work for that sort of organization?

Perhaps you're asking the wrong person. I can imagine exactly what that is like. I've belonged to some incredibly disorganized organizations. The courts say one thing. The leadership within your organization says something else. Yeah...I know EXACTLY what that is like!!

[XU_Lou]

New Harvard/Harris poll:

67% of voters say the current level of U.S. federal government debt is unsustainable.

83% of voters favor reducing government expenditures over increasing taxes, and 77% say a full examination of all government expenditures is necessary.

70% of voters say government expenditures are filled with waste, fraud, and inefficiency (Democrats: 58%; Republicans: 78%; Independents: 75%), and 69% support the goal of cutting $1 trillion of government expenditures.

60% of voters think DOGE is helping make major cuts in government expenditures.


72% of voters say they want Ukraine to negotiate a settlement with Russia instead of winning the war. 60% of voters favor Trump announcing direct U.S.-Russia negotiations (Democrats: 40%; Republicans: 85%; Independents: 53%).


https://harvardharrispoll.com/press-release-february-2025/

[hoopster68]

Yeah, we need to be condemning this. How much we should involve ourselves is fair to debate, but to not even condemn the invasion of a sovereign nation by Russia is absurd. If you're not condemning it, then it's as though you're condoning it.

+1

[Strange Brew]

Natalie Bara, president of the FBI Agents Association, wrote in an internal newsletter to members sent Sunday before Bongino’s selection was announced that Patel had agreed during a January meeting with her that the FBI deputy director “should continue to be an on-board, active Special Agent as has been the case for 117 years for many compelling reasons, including operational expertise and experience, as well as the trust of our Special Agent population.”

Not sure a let-go Fox personality pod caster fits that promise. Then again, why would you ever trust Kash Patel. You need to be smarter than that.

Annnnd a former Secret Service agent. Keep 'em coming Paul.

[Strange Brew]

The UN passed a resolution today condemning the war in Ukraine and calling for a return of Ukraine's territory.

Russia, North Korea, Iran...and the United States voted against the resolution.

MAGA.

Neat. What an excellent use of time. I guess they needed to take a break from all of the wonderful "work" they do around the World. Glad we fund the UN and house them on our shores.

BTW, Russian invasion bad. NATO trying to bring Ukraine into NATO. Also bad.

[paulxu]

Annnnd a former Secret Service agent. Keep 'em coming Paul.

As far as I know, no management experience. Just what the person who runs day to day operations you would hope brings to the table.

[Strange Brew]

As far as I know, no management experience. Just what the person who runs day to day operations you would hope brings to the table.

So you know absolutely nothing about the man except his stint on FOX?

[waggy]

So Newsom asks for $40M to Trump proof Cali.

[Strange Brew]

So Newsom asks for $40M to Trump proof Cali.

Don’t bait me :)

[paulxu]

So you know absolutely nothing about the man except his stint on FOX?

No, it means I searched for information about his background. Although I found information about his police work, his SS work, his radio gigs after Rush, his Fox gigs, his podcast, his ban from YouTube, his broadcasts on Rumble...but I could find no reference to him having any management experience.

His new job requires him to be the manager of the FBI force for the director. But a typically inexperienced hire for this administration.

[waggy]

Well he can't fuck up the FBI and more than it already is. And that goes for all the rest of the weaponized departments across the US government.

[xubrew]

Well he can't fuck up the FBI and more than it already is. And that goes for all the rest of the weaponized departments across the US government.

Has Trump ever claimed that these departments are being weaponized to target anyone other than himself??

[GoMuskies]

Eric Adams and the January 6th folks.

[waggy]

Has Trump ever claimed that these departments are being weaponized to target anyone other than himself??

Yes, Catholics

[xubrew]

Eric Adams and the January 6th folks.

Ahh...forgot about that one. Although while this is someone other than himself, J6 is largely tied to him

I must have missed it when he said the government was being weaponized against Catholics. But as batshit crazy as that is, Trump says a lot of batshit crazy stuff.

[Strange Brew]

Ahh...forgot about that one. Although while this is someone other than himself, J6 is largely tied to him

I must have missed it when he said the government was being weaponized against Catholics. But as batshit crazy as that is, Trump says a lot of batshit crazy stuff.

Maybe it’s not so BS crazy since you didn’t know about the targeting of Catholics who attend Latin Mass.

Also there was the targeting of parents who spoke out at school board meetings.

[paulxu]

When you think the FBI is "weaponized" as it helped the Justice Department investigate the J6 crimes...and therefore needs to be investigated itself...it seems you are doing Putin's bidding and wasting time/$ for sure.
Maybe DOGE could investigate that.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The weaponization comments stem more from the alleged Whitmer kidnapping plot and the role the FBI played, the conspiracy theory that FBI agents were the first to cross into the capital on J6 thus instigating it, and the flagging of people criticizing school boards over CRT and other items.

I think the FBI certainly has lost it's way, but I think that ship can be nudged back in the right direction easily.

[paulxu]

I'm not sure that a conspiracy theory qualifies as a reason the FBI has lost it's way.
Has the total department not acted in the traditional role of Federal law enforcement.
Sure, they, like any agency they'll make mistakes sometimes. But weaponized for somebody's political game?

Just because Trump is still lying about the election, let the lawbreakers, including seditionists out of jail, doesn't mean he's right.
And going after the FBI agents who fulfilled their duty to help the DOJ investigate and prosecute those crimes is Russian type crap.

[Strange Brew]

When you think the FBI is "weaponized" as it helped the Justice Department investigate the J6 crimes...and therefore needs to be investigated itself...it seems you are doing Putin's bidding and wasting time/$ for sure.
Maybe DOGE could investigate that.

Paul, let J6 go. It wasn’t worse than Pearl Harbor and it wasn’t 911 X 1,000 (iykyk).

I’m glad you’ve stopped hyper-ventilating over gov’t employees having to write an email that takes 5 min, 15 if they actually think about it.

[paulxu]

I'm laughing at the 1 million that came in and who is going to read them.
Then I realized the point was to fire those who didn't respond.
Then I saw the Judiciary said ignore them. Then I saw the office that sent them out said ignore them.

And it cemented that these people have no idea what the hell they are doing. And that would be par for the course.

[hoopster68]

Paul, let J6 go. It wasn’t worse than Pearl Harbor and it wasn’t 911 X 1,000 (iykyk).

I’m glad you’ve stopped hyper-ventilating over gov’t employees having to write an email that takes 5 min, 15 if they actually think about it.

SB: No I won't "let J6 go." It was the worst insurrection since April, 1861 and the current president continues to lie about it. His pardon of the convicted J6 participants will be part of his legacy. "Alternate facts" may work on FAUX NEWS but not here.

[paulxu]

DOJ Hires A State Judge Who Was Once Suspended To Advise The Deputy AG

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/doj-hires-a-state-judge-who-was-once-suspended-to-advise-the-deputy-ag


the acting Commissioner of the Social Security Administration has abolishing CREO, the SSA’s statutory civil rights and equal opportunity division.
Acting Commission Leland Dudek was a mid-level SSA staffer until about a week ago, when he was caught making unauthorized leaks of SSA information to DOGE. He was in the process of being fired when he was elevated over at least one hundred more senior agency executives to running the whole agency.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/

Only the best people. MAGA

[Muskie in dayton]

Border crossings are at a 15 year low. Military recruitment is at a 15-year high. The US hostages are free.

Its great the adults are back in charge and we finally have decency in the White House.

[Strange Brew]

I'm laughing at the 1 million that came in and who is going to read them.
Then I realized the point was to fire those who didn't respond.
Then I saw the Judiciary said ignore them. Then I saw the office that sent them out said ignore them.

And it cemented that these people have no idea what the hell they are doing. And that would be par for the course.

You got one thing right. The people in these jobs have no idea what they’re doing. You are almost so close to reality it’s humorous.

[Strange Brew]

SB: No I won't "let J6 go." It was the worst insurrection since April, 1861 and the current president continues to lie about it. His pardon of the convicted J6 participants will be part of his legacy. "Alternate facts" may work on FAUX NEWS but not here.

No. It wasn’t.

What happened in April 1861? I know and I know why. Do you?

BTW, my ancestors fought for the Union and I’m curious to hear your thoughts on the Civil War. :)

Edit: You should stop using words you don’t understand. Research the Insurrection Act of 1807 and then tell me why none of the J6ers were charged with its violation.

[Xuperman]

There was NO INSURRECTION on J6. That has been clearly defined and NO ONE has been charged of that crime.....in any legal aspect possible.

HOWEVER, it was a severely horrific day.....AND FEDERAL CRIMES most certainly were properly prosecuted.

Some of the Trump *pardons" were an AMERICAN EMBARRASSMENT.

[hoopster68]

No. It wasn’t.

What happened in April 1861? I know and I know why. Do you?

BTW, my ancestors fought for the Union and I’m curious to hear your thoughts on the Civil War. :)

Edit: You should stop using words you don’t understand. Research the Insurrection Act of 1807 and then tell me why none of the J6ers were charged with its violation.

SB: Please be clear: do you support the pardons for appx. 1600 persons convicted of crimes on Jan. 6? Your answer will go a long way in determining your mindset re: "law and order." Parsing words such as "insurrection" which I used does not help. Either the actions on Jan. 6 were crimes or they weren't.

[GoMuskies]

So now Zelensky will be in the White House doing a smily signing ceremony with Trump on Friday. Everyone should be happy, right?

[xubrew]

So now Zelensky will be in the White House doing a smily signing ceremonty with Trump on Friday. Everyone should be happy, right?

Of course!!!!

[GoMuskies]

Musk on the purpose of his email requesting a response from all government employees. The purpose was to answer three questions about government emloyees:

Are they alive?
Are they real?
Can they write an email?

[paulxu]

First measles death in 10 years. Unvaccinated child.
Let's put an anti-vaxer in charge of HHS. Makes perfect sense.

[GoMuskies]

Damn you RFK for having nothing to do with this!!!!!!

[paulxu]

Damn you RFK for having nothing to do with this!!!!!!

Maybe he did. These people probably believed his nonsense...until now.


As the measles outbreak in Texas keeps spreading, parents who previously chose not to vaccinate their children are now lining up to get their kids the shots needed to protect them from the serious illness.

“People are more and more nervous” as they watch the highly contagious virus spread in their communities, mostly among children, said Katherine Wells, director of public health for Lubbock's health department. “We’ve vaccinated multiple kids that have never been vaccinated before, some from families that didn’t believe in vaccines.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-measles-outbreak-grows-parents-vaccinate-rcna193637

[paulxu]

Flood the zone. A lot of people on here will believe his lies...even the old ones, repeated ad nauseam.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/26/politics/fact-check-trump-cabinet-meeting/index.html

[bobbiemcgee]

Message to you titans of industry; Don:t hire people who can:t speak fucking english.

[Xville]

Maybe he did. These people probably believed his nonsense...until now.



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-measles-outbreak-grows-parents-vaccinate-rcna193637

There are a lot of really stupid anti vaxxers out there. They didn’t need rfk’s help on the matter to be completely ignorant.

[94GRAD]

Maybe he did. These people probably believed his nonsense...until now.



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-measles-outbreak-grows-parents-vaccinate-rcna193637


There are a lot of really stupid anti vaxxers out there. They didn’t need rfk’s help on the matter to be completely ignorant.

I believe the term is called Natural Selection

[paulxu]

There are a lot of really stupid anti vaxxers out there. They didn’t need rfk’s help on the matter to be completely ignorant.

That's a really good point.
But also, it doesn't help to have the head of Health and Human Services be one.
It gives less educated people a reason to not get their kids vaxed.

[Xville]

That's a really good point.
But also, it doesn't help to have the head of Health and Human Services be one.
It gives less educated people a reason to not get their kids vaxed.

I don’t think the average person even knows he’s in charge of it. And frankly his views on food outweighs the stupid of his vax opinions. Our food is literally killing us and it’s gone unchecked for decades upon decades

[GoMuskies]

Was sitting through a CLE program today, and they were talking about the 2017 Trump tax cuts and the potential for renewal. What I did not know was that the 21% corporate rates were already permanent. That being the case, I'm kind of indifferent on whether the other cuts get extended. I've enjoyed the rest of the cuts, sure, but I didn't really think they were necessary. Lowering the previously ridiculous corporate income tax rate was the only must have from those cuts, so I'd personally trade all the rest of those cuts for lowering the corporate tax rate a few more points.

[hoopster68]

Was sitting through a CLE program today, and they were talking about the 2017 Trump tax cuts and the potential for renewal. What I did not know was that the 21% corporate rates were already permanent. That being the case, I'm kind of indifferent on whether the other cuts get extended. I've enjoyed the rest of the cuts, sure, but I didn't really think they were necessary. Lowering the previously ridiculous corporate income tax rate was the only must have from those cuts, so I'd personally trade all the rest of those cuts for lowering the corporate tax rate a few more points.

GM: By reversing the personal tax cuts Congress & Prexy could make a stand to reduce the deficit; don't bet on it!

[xuphan]

GM: By reversing the personal tax cuts Congress & Prexy could make a stand to reduce the deficit; don't bet on it!

Anyone else interested in seeing what is in the Epstein report? Hope we get the full report to see everyone who was involved.

[bjf123]

Anyone else interested in seeing what is in the Epstein report? Hope we get the full report to see everyone who was involved.

They’ve released some of the flight logs. Lots of initials as passengers.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-pamela-bondi-releases-first-phase-declassified-epstein-files


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[waggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfTQ9iFb0f8

[waggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95XJtcO9y5E

[Xville]

Anyone else interested in seeing what is in the Epstein report? Hope we get the full report to see everyone who was involved.

We are never going to see shit as far as names. Why? Because there are a lot of powerful people including politicians that are one the list. Thing is never going to see the light of day, in terms of anything that’s juicy.

Same reason we will never see the diddy list.

[GoMuskies]

Trump and Zelensky yelling at each other in front of the press at the White House is kinda weird.

[GoMuskies]

So now Zelensky will be in the White House doing a smily signing ceremony with Trump on Friday.

What idiot thought this was going to happen anyway?

[X-band '01]

Maybe Zelensky reads this board and realized "what do these sick fucks in Ohio do with watermelons? No wonder JD Vance was accused of fucking a couch"

[xuphan]

Trump and Zelensky yelling at each other in front of the press at the White House is kinda weird.

In this political climate I don’t see it weird at all.

[noteggs]

I’m kinda glad it happened on TV vs behind closed doors. Everyone can make up their own minds about what happened. Hell a lot better than having anonymous sources spinning their side good and other bad. Something we’ve grown accustomed to.

[waggy]

I wish I could say I thought it was manufactured theatre, but I don't think Trump is capable of the subtlety.

[paulxu]

I thought maybe this wouldn't happen after the leaders of our two biggest allies were forced to correct his lies on camera, in itself quite embarrassing.

I was wrong.

[Strange Brew]

I thought maybe this wouldn't happen after the leaders of our two biggest allies were forced to correct his lies on camera, in itself quite embarrassing.

I was wrong.

Who do YOU think our two biggest allies are?

On a positive note. Z and other individuals looking for money will know how to dress and act when visiting the WH.

[paulxu]

Who do YOU think our two biggest allies are?

On a positive note. Z and other individuals looking for money will know how to dress and act when visiting the WH.

Well, France was the first ally America had as a new nation. And England has had the "special relation" since Winston Churchill noted our closeness.

Who do you think they are?

And why does our President have to keep repeating the same lies so that other prime ministers/presidents have to correct him?
It's like any school yard bully.
And I am embarrassed for our country by the lack of diplomacy exhibited by our President and Vice-President.
And the master sycophant from my state was right behind not recognizing how it looked to the world.

[Strange Brew]

Well, France was the first ally America had as a new nation. And England has had the "special relation" since Winston Churchill noted our closeness.

Who do you think they are?

And why does our President have to keep repeating the same lies so that other prime ministers/presidents have to correct him?
It's like any school yard bully.
And I am embarrassed for our country by the lack of diplomacy exhibited by our President and Vice-President.
And the master sycophant from my state was right behind not recognizing how it looked to the world.

First, you’re still fighting our grand and great grandfather’s wars.

Secondly, Our strategic allies are now Israel (and to some point Turkey in that region) Japan, Australia and South Korea.

Canada and Mexico are allies because of geography. That said, the Canadians are awesome and most of their citizens share similar views as us. Yes, I said US.

You love Churchhill however you had zero complaints when the last two Presidents you voted for returned his bust to the UK. Trump brought it back within his first week both times.

If we’re going to have a go I’d like to have the Aussies, the Japanese, the South Koreans, the IDF, the Turks on my side as opposed to the French or the Ukrainians (and it’s corrupt gov’t).

Edit: Two World Wars and Vietnam have proved the French are useless to defend themselves or anyone else.

There’s a backetball game in a few hours.

Let’s GO X! What is a stupid bird anyway? :)

[hoopster68]

First, you’re still fighting our grand and great grandfather’s wars.

Secondly, Our strategic allies are now Israel (and to some point Turkey in that region) Japan, Australia and South Korea.

Canada and Mexico are allies because of geography. That said, the Canadians are awesome and most of their citizens share similar views as us. Yes, I said US.

You love Churchhill however you had zero complaints when the last two Presidents you voted for returned his bust to the UK. Trump brought it back within his first week both times.

If we’re going to have a go I’d like to have the Aussies, the Japanese, the South Koreans, the IDF, the Turks on my side as opposed to the French or the Ukrainians (and it’s corrupt gov’t).

Edit: Two World Wars and Vietnam have proved the French are useless to defend themselves or anyone else.

There’s a backetball game in a few hours.

Let’s GO X! What is a stupid bird anyway? :)

SB: What is your view of NATO? Is it part of your list of "allies"?

[Strange Brew]

SB: What is your view of NATO? Is it part of your list of "allies"?

Well, we have a contractual obligation signed by people, long dead, to defend them. I’ll leave it at that.

[Muskie in dayton]

Shocking that the guy who still believes the Domino Theory also seems to think a 1950’s alliance to prevent the spread of communism is relevant today.

[Muskie in dayton]

Q. Our biggest Federal expenditure is servicing our debt. If our level of debt increase continues, we won’t be able to service our debt within a decade. Here are things we don’t need to be funding:
- wars half-way around the world
- programs to advance racism
- fraud and political money laundering.
Why would politicians promote these things unless they were benefiting from them?

A. They wouldn’t.

[Xville]

Shocking that the guy who still believes the Domino Theory also seems to think a 1950’s alliance to prevent the spread of communism is relevant today.

You may want to read up on Putin and understand his background before making such statements. To think Putin is just going to stop, is about the most ignorant take I’ve seen on this board. Europe is important to the us, whether you believe that or not

[GoMuskies]

I'm sure Putin doesn't want to stop. But what about the humiliating Ukraine campaign gives you the impression that he has the ABILITY to invade deeper into Europe.

[Xville]

I'm sure Putin doesn't want to stop. But what about the humiliating Ukraine campaign gives you the impression that he has the ABILITY to invade deeper into Europe.

The only reason Ukraine isn’t a part of Russia right now is because of the U.S. had We not stepped in, and given so much money and ammunition, Putin would have taken over Ukraine and kept going. It’s why we unfortunately have to be involved.

Putin wants the Soviet Union back, the us spent 40 years breaking it up and some seem to be just fine with getting it back together.

I dunno where all this isolationist bs comes from. It’s not realistic in the modern world.

[X-band '01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD0pqDOAtk

When I heard of the passing of Gene Hackman, it was easy to not just watch Hoosiers again, but I always got a kick out of this clip from Superman. Too bad it is foreshadowing future events to a degree.

[hoopster68]

The only reason Ukraine isn’t a part of Russia right now is because of the U.S. had We not stepped in, and given so much money and ammunition, Putin would have taken over Ukraine and kept going. It’s why we unfortunately have to be involved.

Putin wants the Soviet Union back, the us spent 40 years breaking it up and some seem to be just fine with getting it back together.

I dunno where all this isolationist bs comes from. It’s not realistic in the modern world.

+1

[GoMuskies]

I don't believe there's been any serous suggestion that the US won't be involved. Just that maybe the two sides should stop pointlessly killing a bunch of their pawn citizens for an endless stalemate.

[waggy]

I think the isolationist position is mostly driven by our financial situation. Our greatest danger is our debt. I don't think that is hyperbole. We are not a manufacturing power anymore. Where we lead is in tech and money. We are being challenged on tech, and Taiwan is of critical importance. If we fuck up the dollar we are in deep shit.

[xuphan]

Who do YOU think our two biggest allies are?

On a positive note. Z and other individuals looking for money will know how to dress and act when visiting the WH.

Who cares what he dressed like? Not like Musk is wearing a suit and tie at the White House.

[paulxu]

Who cares what he dressed like? Not like Musk is wearing a suit and tie at the White House.

When you've spent 300 million for a ticket inside our government to wreak havoc, guess you have to dress like a tech bro.

[XU_Lou]

"Remember back in 2015 when Professor Noam Chomsky warned that NATO pushing up to Russia’s borders and the 2014 coup made Ukraine’s tilt toward the West “unacceptable” to any Russian leader?" https://x.com/ricwe123/status/1895572107364614357

[XU_Lou]

"Geo-Political Scholar Jeffrey Sachs Schools the EU Parliament on the reasons behind the Russia Ukraine Conflict.

Every-time Legacy Media or a Politician states the was is “unprovoked” is a complete lie.

This doesn’t even include some of the more grotesque activities Ukraine has been well documented as being involved in."

https://x.com/BGatesIsaPyscho/status/1895751157651251687

[XU_Lou]

The 2014 Coup: How the West Installed a Puppet Regime in Ukraine

Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine’s democratically elected president, wanted to balance Ukraine between East and West. He rejected a terrible EU trade deal that would have gutted Ukraine’s industry and instead sought closer ties with Russia. That was unacceptable to Washington.

What followed was the Maidan coup—not a “people’s revolution,” but a Western-backed takeover.

US officials, including Victoria Nuland and John McCain, openly supported the protests. Nuland was caught on a leaked call choosing Ukraine’s next leaders before Yanukovych was even removed. The violent street protests were driven by neo-Nazi groups like the Azov Battalion and Right Sector—groups that openly admire Hitler’s collaborators in Ukraine.

Yanukovych fled, and Washington’s hand-picked government took over. One of its first moves? Banning the Russian language in official settings—a direct attack on the millions of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east.

And that’s when Donbass and Crimea said enough.

The War in Donbass: Ukraine’s War on Its Own People
The people of Donetsk and Luhansk (also known as the Donbass) didn’t recognise the new, Western-backed regime in Kiev. They held referendums and voted to break away. Crimea, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, also held a vote—with over 90% choosing to rejoin Russia.

The response from Kiev? Brutal war.

Instead of letting the Donbass go, Ukraine launched a military assault. For eight years, the people of Donetsk and Luhansk endured shelling, airstrikes, and blockades. Thousands of civilians died. Where was the Western outrage? Nowhere—because the media ignored it.

Ukraine even used Nazi-linked militias like Azov to wage war on these civilians. These groups wore SS symbols, celebrated Nazi war criminals, and committed atrocities. And yet, the West armed them, trained them, and lied about their existence.

Full article here: https://nationfirst.substack.com/p/zelenskyys-meltdown-and-a-history

[waggy]

Sachs is paid in Rubles.

[XU_Lou]

What about Noam Chomsky or Bill Burns?

[Xville]

Who cares what he dressed like? Not like Musk is wearing a suit and tie at the White House.

Yes it is so important during a war due to the invasion of one’s country to wear a suit lol. Some people will go to the ends of the earth trying to back their position.

Hell we have some people quoting known communists to try to prove Russia was in the right lol.

[waggy]

what about noam chomsky or bill burns?

idk

[Strange Brew]

Who cares what he dressed like? Not like Musk is wearing a suit and tie at the White House.

Musk isn’t begging for money.

[Strange Brew]

When you've spent 300 million for a ticket inside our government to wreak havoc, guess you have to dress like a tech bro.

Well, I thought we were all supposed to learn to code according to Biden and Obama?

[Strange Brew]

Yes it is so important during a war due to the invasion of one’s country to wear a suit lol. Some people will go to the ends of the earth trying to back their position.

Hell we have some people quoting known communists to try to prove Russia was in the right lol.

No one is saying Russia was correct. It’s time to end this nonsense.

BTW, is China a Communist nation?

[paulxu]

Help for the conspiracy theorists.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/08/04/ukraine-maidan-revolution-russia-coup-myth-yanukovych/

[paulxu]

When you put 20 year olds in charge and they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/03/02/doge-nuclear-worker-firings-musk-trump/

[waggy]

Help for the conspiracy theorists.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/08/04/ukraine-maidan-revolution-russia-coup-myth-yanukovych/

This was interesting. Thanks. It really just shows the difficulty of countering Russian efforts in the region. All you do is whine that the bad man is doing it wrong, but have no answers on how to deal with it. What'd Obama do?.... Not a damn thing.


When you put 20 year olds in charge and they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/03/02/doge-nuclear-worker-firings-musk-trump/

A predictable nothingburger from a blatant leftwing rag.

[paulxu]

The Savannah River site and Pantex are a far cry from a nothingburger.

[xuwillie]

Can't make this up, Hakeem Jeffries said on CNN that the Democratic Party is the one trying to secure the border. And they wonder why their approval ratings are in the 20's.

[bjf123]

Can't make this up, Hakeem Jeffries said on CNN that the Democratic Party is the one trying to secure the border. And they wonder why their approval ratings are in the 20's.

Now that’s fucking hilarious! [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Xville]

No one is saying Russia was correct. It’s time to end this nonsense.

BTW, is China a Communist nation?

Agreed. Russia should pull out of Ukraine. Nonsense is ended.

[waggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxq-TvgNCBU

[waggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EajJARsfhvg

[hoopster68]

Agreed. Russia should pull out of Ukraine. Nonsense is ended.

+1

[GoMuskies]

Agreed. Russia should pull out of Ukraine. Nonsense is ended.

Seems unlikely unless we want to fight Russia directly. Are you okay with that? Are you okay with a meatgrinder stalemate with each side blowing each other up by drone for a few more years?

[Xville]

Seems unlikely unless we want to fight Russia directly. Are you okay with that? Are you okay with a meatgrinder stalemate with each side blowing each other up by drone for a few more years?

There's nothing that I am ok with in this situation, except for Russia pulling out immediately without any further death. I don't like any other scenario, nor am I ok with it.

[GoMuskies]

But that's not going to happen. So your second-favorite path is the meat-grinder stalemate?

[Xville]

But that's not going to happen. So your second-favorite path is the meat-grinder stalemate?

I don't know what my second favorite path is. In my mind, everything else is a complete loss.

More death ----- loss
Giving Russia what they want ------loss

[GoMuskies]

I'm probably too simple-minded, but I only see three viable options:

1) Negotiate a peace no one loves.

2) Status quo with continued fighting/virtual stalemate that Russia probably ultimately wins.

3) US/Rest of Europe get more directly involved in the conflict and knock Russia back.

Given that Russia has nuclear weapons, I choose option 1 from the three non-ideal choices.

[Xville]

I'm probably too simple-minded, but I only see three viable options:

1) Negotiate a peace no one loves.

2) Status quo with continued fighting/virtual stalemate that Russia probably ultimately wins.

3) US/Rest of Europe get more directly involved in the conflict and knock Russia back.

Given that Russia has nuclear weapons, I choose option 1 from the three non-ideal choices.

In a vacuum, 1 is probably the outcome that everyone wants. The problem with 1 is that I don't think that's the end of it. Sure, everyone may be "happy" for a few months or even a year or two. However, No one in their right mind trusts Russia just to pack up and go home at the end of the day.

[waggy]

I think #1 is the only viable option. China is having big financial problems, and we owe them money. We either get everyone focused on financial recovery or we're going to end up in WW3.

[xubrew]

I think #1 is the only viable option. China is having big financial problems, and we owe them money. We either get everyone focused on financial recovery or we're going to end up in WW3.

It's probably even more likely that we end up in Cold War 2 instead of World War 3. in fact we may already be in CW2. Both scare me for different reasons. WW3 scares me for the same reasons it should scare everyone else, and CW2 scares me because I do not think we are in a position to win it. We would lose a cyber war. Our banks, our national security, our personal data, our phones, our networks, our power grid, our air traffic control, etc are just a few things that can probably be breached by China, Russia, and North Korea a lot more easily than we'd be able to breach theirs'. We couldn't even get rid of fucking TikTok.

Anyway, that's my happy thought for the day! How's everything else going??

[GoMuskies]

I'm pretty sure we can breach all of their networks. But it's not a good day when each side is showing off their ability to hack the others' power grid.

[xubrew]

I'm pretty sure we can breach all of their networks. But it's not a good day when each side is showing off their ability to hack the others' power grid.

...or hijack the air traffic control, or empty the bank accounts of companies and citizens, or shut down wifi and satellite, or do all kinds of stuff.

[GoMuskies]

The rest of it is irrelevant once you knock out the power. Civilization lasts about 4 days once the power is out.

[xubrew]

I'm probably too simple-minded, but I only see three viable options:

1) Negotiate a peace no one loves.

2) Status quo with continued fighting/virtual stalemate that Russia probably ultimately wins.

3) US/Rest of Europe get more directly involved in the conflict and knock Russia back.

Given that Russia has nuclear weapons, I choose option 1 from the three non-ideal choices.

Anyway, the inability to effectively work through situations like this is one of the many reasons I will never run for public office.

What Zelensky said and was ultimately shouted down for was not wrong. You can't negotiate an agreement with Putin/Russia and expect them to abide by it. Perhaps it's still worth doing given the alternative of not doing it, but what he said was objectively correct. They have reneged on deal after deal after deal. So, the downside to option #1 has two layers to it. Russia will ultimately rewarded for invading a sovereign nation because they will receive something that they didn't have before as part of the agreement, and whatever the agreement is they're it's not very likely that they'll stick to their end of it.

[xubrew]

The rest of it is irrelevant once you knock out the power. Civilization lasts about 4 days once the power is out.

You're not wrong.

I suspect this might be what the near future of war/conflict may look like. "Geez, it's a shame that your power grid crashed and was down for two or three days. It would be rather disastrous if that were to keep happening. Now, about this deal we're trying to make and what we want you to give us..."

[Smails]

Is there any real way of knowing how popular Putin is or how the war effort is being received in Russia? You can't trust anything out of the Kremlin, but I wonder how much more war the Russian people really want given that their economy has been shrinking since 2023 and their sons are dying on the battlefield daily. Maybe the KGB can put some cyanide in his morning tea and put an end to this fucking mess.

[X-band '01]

The last guy that tried taking out Putin didn't exactly come out a winner. There is that.

[Smails]

The last guy that tried taking out Putin didn't exactly come out a winner. There is that.

True, I don't think a coup is the answer.

[xubrew]

Is there any real way of knowing how popular Putin is or how the war effort is being received in Russia? You can't trust anything out of the Kremlin, but I wonder how much more war the Russian people really want given that their economy has been shrinking since 2023 and their sons are dying on the battlefield daily. Maybe the KGB can put some cyanide in his morning tea and put an end to this fucking mess.

Of all the students I've encountered that were from Russia, Putin has not been popular at all with any of them. Granted, they're all part of a similar demographic, so that's not a good sample size of the entire nation, but I believe he's more feared than he is popular. As X-Band pointed out, his dissenters all seem to come to a bad end. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Putin basically hijacked Russia's government. He made deals with the wealthy elite, arranged for the constitution to be changed so that he had absolute power and never had to leave office, and whenever someone does challenge him, they are arrested and/or die mysteriously. It is very easy for me to imagine how that would be unpopular with a lot of people.

[paulxu]

We would lose a cyber war.

Anyway, that's my happy thought for the day! How's everything else going??

With Trump sucking up to Putin, and defending him to the world, I'm sure this will help you sleep at night.


Hegseth orders suspension of cyber, information operations planning against Russia
https://www.washingtontechnology.com/contracts/2025/03/hegseth-orders-suspension-cyber-information-operations-planning-against-russia/403423/

[xubrew]

Is anyone in the media actually going to ask Trump the question they should be asking him?? And if anyone does, would he actually answer it??

If Zelensky says he wants peace, and apologizes for so rudely pointing out that Russia has a history of violating peace agreements, and that they have violated peace agreements with Ukraine, and that the invasion itself is perhaps an example of a peace agreement that was violated, and explaining that is one of the biggest reasons why he is hesitant to make an agreement with Russia, then what kind of assurances would he have from the United States that Russia will not violate a peace agreement that Trump helps negotiate??

Or, to phrase it another way, is the United States strong enough to make Russia stick to any agreement that is made??

[paulxu]

You might want to check the Budapest Memorandum on nuclear weapons for a precursor to the results of such a deal.

[noteggs]

Didn’t see many tears from fed employees when governmental lockdowns caused their private friends to lose 20 millionish jobs during covid. Of course fed (not state and local) jobs were mostly spared because they were deemed essential.

Seems like “some” were not so essential after all. Bottom line and as posted before, layoffs suck on so many levels. But when the country is 36T in debt, tough choices have to be made.

[X-band '01]

Yeah, I guess things like the National Weather Service are just luxuries to the MAGA faithful. Clearly people who believe climate change is real need to be replaced with toadies who don't believe in that riffraff.

[noteggs]

Yeah, I guess things like the National Weather Service are just luxuries to the MAGA faithful. Clearly people who believe climate change is real need to be replaced with toadies who don't believe in that riffraff.

I’m sorry but is that directed at my comment?

[XU_Lou]

Yeah, I guess things like the National Weather Service are just luxuries to the MAGA faithful. Clearly people who believe climate change is real need to be replaced with toadies who don't believe in that riffraff.

Oh yea, like were not going to receive NWS forecasts any longer... good grief. Is the sky falling as well?

[Xuperman]

I'm probably too simple-minded, but I only see three viable options:

1) Negotiate a peace no one loves.

2) Status quo with continued fighting/virtual stalemate that Russia probably ultimately wins.

3) US/Rest of Europe get more directly involved in the conflict and knock Russia back.

Given that Russia has nuclear weapons, I choose option 1 from the three non-ideal choices.

The answer is ENERGY and the income it creates. I have no idea how, but if Russian energy profits could be choked off significantly, it would change the current reality. Same with Iran.

The US has to constantly increase the percentage amount of ALL "energy" consumed by ALL countries of the "Free" world. This could only happen if there was radical market reform and serious US diplomacy.

I know....pipedream.

[paulxu]

Also today, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta forecast a dramatic contraction in the economy in the first quarter of 2025. Evaluating current data according to a mathematical model, it moved from an expected 2.9% growth in gross domestic product at the end of January to –2.8% today.

MAGA

[hoopster68]

Also today, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta forecast a dramatic contraction in the economy in the first quarter of 2025. Evaluating current data according to a mathematical model, it moved from an expected 2.9% growth in gross domestic product at the end of January to –2.8% today.

MAGA

Is this the canary in the Trumpster's coal mine economy?

[xubrew]

Is this the canary in the Trumpster's coal mine economy?

Probably not. It will have to get to a point to where things are so bad that no one is able to even pretend that they are still good. And, it may not ever get there.

[XU_Lou]

And that folks, is called the "art of the deal":


Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa

I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace.

None of us wants an endless war. Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under President Trump’s strong leadership to get a peace that lasts.

We are ready to work fast to end the war, and the first stages could be the release of prisoners and truce in the sky — ban on missiles, long-ranged drones, bombs on energy and other civilian infrastructure — and truce in the sea immediately, if Russia will do the same. Then we want to move very fast through all next stages and to work with the US to agree a strong final deal.

We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins. We are grateful for this.

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.

[XU_Lou]

Winning....


Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa

I spoke with UK Prime Minister. We discussed the current developments and exchanged views on the next steps.

We are coordinating our positions and doing everything to achieve guaranteed peace as soon as possible and bring an end to this war.

Peace is needed for all of us. A just peace with clear security guarantees. Together with the leadership of the United States and all of Europe, this is absolutely achievable.

I am grateful for the advice and support during this challenging time. We will always remember everything the British people have done for Ukrainians and our shared security.

[Xville]

Nothing says winning like a tanking stock market.

[XU_Lou]

Tanking?? Bahaha!

So sorry the libs wet dream didn't pan out for them today....

[Xville]

The Dow is down over 3% in the last month. The only way anyone could be happy with that is if they are asset poor.

[GoMuskies]

3%?!? Who cares? There's a more than fair chance it gets worse, but getting worked up over a 3% drop in the market is silly.

To find the last day the Dow was so low one has to go ALL the way back to....January 14...of this year.

[paulxu]

What happens when you put idiots in charge of critical stuff:


“It is obvious DOGE people did not understand how our nuclear weapons system works,” said Jim Walsh, a nuclear arms scholar at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Security Studies Program. “This was incompetence.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/03/02/doge-nuclear-worker-firings-musk-trump/

[Xville]

3%?!? Who cares? There's a more than fair chance it gets worse, but getting worked up over a 3% drop in the market is silly.

To find the last day the Dow was so low one has to go ALL the way back to....January 14...of this year.

Not worked up about the specific number as of now, but it’s an indicator that things can get a lot worse if it has moved that much in a short amount of time. Hopefully it doesn’t, but I’m not optimistic

[paulxu]

You're a fired federal worker with top secret clearance. You're unhappy you lost your job because a 19 year old tech bro is having fun.
Some Russian offers you a lot of money for your secrets.
What do you do?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fired-us-government-workers-with-top-security-clearances-were-not-given-exit-2025-03-04/

[GoMuskies]

I never realized paul was so ageist.

[GoMuskies]

To find the last day the Dow was so low one has to go ALL the way back to....January 14...of this year.

NASDAQ is a bit worse. It's in corrrection territory. To find a day when the NASDAQ closed lower, one has to go all the way back to....Election Day.

[Smails]

..

[Smails]

You're a fired federal worker with top secret clearance. You're unhappy you lost your job because a 19 year old tech bro is having fun.
Some Russian offers you a lot of money for your secrets.
What do you do?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fired-us-government-workers-with-top-security-clearances-were-not-given-exit-2025-03-04/

What an incredibly odd question and perspective.

Not sure about you Paul, but I would choose to not commit espionage...but that's just me. What would you do?

[waggy]

Not sure about you Paul, but I would choose to not commit espionage...but that's just me. What would you do?

Breaking the law is just any other day for the Democrats. It is the largest Crime Syndicate in the history of man. And given the wealth that can be stolen from the richest country in history, is it a surprise?

[XU_Lou]

So many people threw critical thinking out the window. For what? They believed the fear mongering and the hyperbole - when it was painfully obvious that it was all bullshit for the vast majority of people around the world. And now, many of those same people have actually created medical issues for themselves because they got caught up in the hysteria.


Kevin Bass PhD MS
@kevinnbass

Paper in Nature journal Vaccines shows vaccine mRNA in the heart of people who got myocarditis and died after COVID vaccination.

It also shows infiltration of immune cells into the same areas, suggesting that the mRNA is provoking an immune response in the heart.

https://x.com/kevinnbass/status/1896982312342184058?s=42



In response:

Andrew Zywiec, MD
@AndrewZywiecMD

It's rather simple. LPN trascfects myocytes. Myocytes express spike protein and present with antigenic signature. Immune system attacks infected myocytes. The problem is that myocytes don't regenerative and instead the cardium fibroses. The acute deaths will pale in comparison to the long-term deaths from premature heart failure. Most of the vaccinated took many years off the back end of their life.




James T.Noble MD, FACP, FIDSA
@DrJimNoble
One of the very first reassurances provided about the Pfizer and Moderna design was that the mRNA was bound to a lipid vehicle and that it would remain at the injection site for a brief time before being metabolized.

I actually told people that to provide reassurance. At a minimum I would like to know if there was ANY animal or other experimental data that suggested that might be true, or if it was a polite fiction from the start.




The absolute worst people (other than the perps and the politicians that foisted mandates on the public) were the ones that mocked and derided those who went against the grain. They should never be forgiven.

[xuphan]

The Dow is down over 3% in the last month. The only way anyone could be happy with that is if they are asset poor.

This is where the tribalism comes out in people.

[Xville]

This is where the tribalism comes out in people.

Correct. It’s comical at this point. If there was a dem in the White House, you can bet one of our fellow extremists on the right would have posted it and complained. But all quiet on the western front. I’m surprised Paul didn’t mention it.

The only reason I care is because this affects me personally and a whole lot of other people, and if it continues, it’s going to suck. When it comes to politics, the most I care about is my money. Everything else is second. Yep I’m selfish.

[GoMuskies]

You guys are talking about a 3% drop in the stock market. Back to a level that was an all time high 2 months ago.

[XU_Lou]

This is where the tribalism comes out in people.


Correct. It’s comical at this point. If there was a dem in the White House, you can bet one of our fellow extremists on the right would have posted it and complained. But all quiet on the western front. I’m surprised Paul didn’t mention it.

The only reason I care is because this affects me personally and a whole lot of other people, and if it continues, it’s going to suck. When it comes to politics, the most I care about is my money. Everything else is second. Yep I’m selfish.

Looks like the canard king is once again allowing his fertile imagination to run wild again.

LOL - the market dropped 19.5% in 2022. I don't recall anyone on 'the right" complaining about that, or at least as petulantly as you did?

The S&P is down 1.5% for the year. So, what, your 401K is like $200 less now?


Yep I’m selfish.

Yea, no shit Captain Obvious...

[Xville]

I guess tribalism also causes memory loss, as long as it doesn’t fit certain narratives

[Xville]

You guys are talking about a 3% drop in the stock market. Back to a level that was an all time high 2 months ago.

This is fair . However it’s a reflection of what is going on in the market and considering I have a whole lot of espp, 401k and numerous other stocks and bonds, it’s more than 3%, and I’d like to retire myself soon.

[Xville]

So had a conversation today with one of my wife’s employees whose husband is a federal employee. Anyways, was talking to her about the change in the governments health plan this year. Good news. Federal employees now have the same shitty health insurance as the rest of us now.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trudeau just called trump a dummy��

[XU_Lou]

I guess tribalism also causes memory loss, as long as it doesn’t fit certain narratives

canard king...

[XU_Lou]

This is fair . However it’s a reflection of what is going on in the market and considering I have a whole lot of espp, 401k and numerous other stocks and bonds, it’s more than 3%, and I’d like to retire myself soon.

you're like 42 or 43.

on who's money? mommy and daddy's money?

[XU_Lou]

The Democrats are an absolute disgrace.

[Xville]

My bad, it finished even worse than I thought yesterday. Down 5% in the last month.
Hopefully there is some recovery today. Futures indicate it’s possible.

[Muskie in dayton]

Polls show 69% to 76% approval of Trump’s speech.

Meanwhile Dems didn’t clap/stand for:
- a freed American hostage
- the family of a girl killed by a alien gang member
- eliminating fraudulent government spending
- protecting women’s sports by preventing biological males from competing (but go on with your pink outfits/protecting women mantra)
- restoring free speech.

To the Dems here, it’s okay to admit you are on the wrong side. So many of you already have awaken (like I did 5 years ago). Turn off your TV and join us.

[GoMuskies]

Elizabeth Warren's Native American heritage stunt was hilarious and embarrassing for her (assuming she is capable of shame), but the POTUS calling her Pocahontas in an address to Congress probably isn't the best idea.

[Xville]

Polls show 69% to 76% approval of Trump’s speech.

Meanwhile Dems didn’t clap/stand for:
- a freed American hostage
- the family of a girl killed by a alien gang member
- eliminating fraudulent government spending
- protecting women’s sports by preventing biological males from competing (but go on with your pink outfits/protecting women mantra)
- restoring free speech.

To the Dems here, it’s okay to admit you are on the wrong side. So many of you already have awaken (like I did 5 years ago). Turn off your TV and join us.

I’m on neither side, and I believe picking sides in this political climate is an odd take. There are issues that I agree/ disagree with from both political parties. Telling people to turn off their tv while posting on an event about something that occurred on tv is another odd take.

It’s a “do your own research” take which is really just code for digest my own unquestionable views

[XU_Lou]

I’m on neither side, and I believe picking sides in this political climate is an odd take. There are issues that I agree/ disagree with from both political parties. Telling people to turn off their tv while posting on an event about something that occurred on tv is another odd take.

It’s a “do your own research” take which is really just code for digest my own unquestionable views

You and Phan are so completely wrapped up in "sides'. It's another one of your canards. It's not about "sides" or "tribes", it's about issues. Quit making shit up and making broad assumptions about people. You have no idea what our broader views are.

The Democrats were an absolute embarrassement last night - and you're trying to somehow defend them?

[Xville]

Elizabeth Warren's Native American heritage stunt was hilarious and embarrassing for her (assuming she is capable of shame), but the POTUS calling her Pocahontas in an address to Congress probably isn't the best idea.

I admit it was funny, but to do that during a speech to congress is typical Trump and it's something an immature child does. Not sure why he can't help himself when it comes to rhetoric. The us vs them stuff is ridiculous.

[XU_Lou]

Dear Paul and Ville:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpSbiRjB6fA

[Smails]

I admit it was funny, but to do that during a speech to congress is typical Trump and it's something an immature child does. Not sure why he can't help himself when it comes to rhetoric. The us vs them stuff is ridiculous.

Complete shi*show

We've got elected officials making childish white board signs, some whackadoodle with a cane getting ejected, an entire party that refused to acknowledge a cancer-striken child who wants to be a public servant, Bernie Sanders walking out mid-speech...and on and on.. It was an absolute mockery that actually made Trump look more mature...which I thought was impossible. Remember when the Democrat rally cry was about having 'grown-ups' in Washington? They looked like 8 year olds off their Ritalin at a day care facility last night.

[xuwillie]

Complete shi*show

We've got elected officials making childish white board signs, some whackadoodle with a cane getting ejected, an entire party that refused to acknowledge a cancer-striken child who wants to be a public servant, Bernie Sanders walking out mid-speech...and on and on.. It was an absolute mockery that actually made Trump look more mature...which I thought was impossible. Remember when the Democrat rally cry was about having 'grown-ups' in Washington? They looked like 8 year olds off their Ritalin at a day care facility last night.

Yeah Not sure how acting childish and immature will win you votes come next midterm. For whatever reason they continue to cater to the far left 20%. That's not going to win you anything

[Xville]

Complete shi*show

We've got elected officials making childish white board signs, some whackadoodle with a cane getting ejected, an entire party that refused to acknowledge a cancer-striken child who wants to be a public servant, Bernie Sanders walking out mid-speech...and on and on.. It was an absolute mockery that actually made Trump look more mature...which I thought was impossible. Remember when the Democrat rally cry was about having 'grown-ups' in Washington? They looked like 8 year olds off their Ritalin at a day care facility last night.

Completely agree with this as well. The immature and childish behavior is not just trump and Vance, it’s the other whackadoodles on the other side as well. I’m tired of the politicians acting like this is some kind of sporting event where it’s this us vs them mentality. When can we get back to reasonable and pragmatic dialogue?

[XU_Lou]

Completely agree with this as well. The immature and childish behavior is not just trump and Vance, it’s the other whackadoodles on the other side as well. I’m tired of the politicians acting like this is some kind of sporting event where it’s this us vs them mentality. When can we get back to reasonable and pragmatic dialogue?

You're not really serious, are you?

You make no effort to accomplish this with your fellow alumni, why in the hell are you holding politicians to a higher standard?

[Xville]

Glad to see the Dow has recovered so far today a bit amidst easing tariff discussions. Hopefully, they end up being complete removals.

[xuwillie]

Glad to see the Dow has recovered so far today a bit amidst easing tariff discussions. Hopefully, they end up being complete removals.

But are you ok with Canada still using Tariffs on us? Admit don't know much about this but seems like if they want to tariff our goods we should be able to do the same

[GoMuskies]

US Rep Sylvester Turner sadly died after Trump's speech last night. He was present for the speech.

[GoMuskies]

The "liberal" wing of the Court now includes Barrett and Roberts.

Obviously not really, but these two have emerged as the two most likely to side with the actual liberals in more controversial decisions.

[bobbiemcgee]

The "liberal" wing of the Court now includes Barrett and Roberts.

Obviously not really, but these two have emerged as the two most likely to side with the actual liberals in more controversial decisions.

Paying our bill for supplies already is hardly a liberal view

[Xville]

But are you ok with Canada still using Tariffs on us? Admit don't know much about this but seems like if they want to tariff our goods we should be able to do the same

I’d be interested to know more about the Canada side to actually answer that question. Is it a large amount or is it to a point where it really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things and this is just retaliatory bs? What I do know is that imposing on them strikes fear into the economy which is my main concern

[GoMuskies]

Trump acts the fool quite often.

Here's a member of Congress from the party offered up as the alternative: https://x.com/RepJasmine/status/1897095060518506846

Kill me.

[bobbiemcgee]

79 million Medicaid votes

[GoMuskies]

Hills bees black sweater rain.

If we're just posting words in random order.

[paulxu]

No one should be surprised when a guy who has stiffed contractors his whole life, suddenly decides to stiff government contractors.

[XU_Lou]

I was wondering when Pravda Paul was going to come out of the house and throw a rock ... and then run and hide behind his mommy's skirt.

[noteggs]

Hills bees black sweater rain.

If we're just posting words in random order.

I think I’m going to send you my dry cleaning bill. Spit out my Dr Pepper zero in laughter after reading this!

[bobbiemcgee]

Hills bees black sweater rain.

If we're just posting words in random order.

Sounds like a trump speech

[waggy]

DOGE Live Tracker (https://doge-tracker.com/)

[GoMuskies]

Ten Democrats joined the Republicans to censure Al Green for his display at the Trump Congreesional address. I assume all 10 are in vulnerable districts and need to show they're not the crazy whackadoodle type of Democrats in order to get reelected.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Ten Democrats joined the Republicans to censure Al Green for his display at the Trump Congreesional address. I assume all 10 are in vulnerable districts and need to show they're not the crazy whackadoodle type of Democrats in order to get reelected.

Help me remember, did the Republicans censure MTG?

[GoMuskies]

Help me remember, did the Republicans censure MTG?

I don't recall that particular whackadoodle ever getting censured.

[X-band '01]

She was never censured, but she was left off of Congressional committees in her first term for inflammatory rhetoric.

At this point, I'm just going to assume that the only real scumbags were Anthony Devolder/George Santos for getting expelled from Congress and Matt Gaetz for basically abdicating his seat to ensure that a House Ethics report on him wasn't publicly released.

That's on the House side - there's also former Senator Bob Menendez basically getting primaried in disgrace for his misdeeds.

[paulxu]

Hey! Don't forget South Carolina's own Joe "You Lie" Wilson.

[Smails]

Trump acts the fool quite often.

Here's a member of Congress from the party offered up as the alternative: https://x.com/RepJasmine/status/1897095060518506846

Kill me.

Grown ups

[Xuperman]

Trump acts the fool quite often.

Here's a member of Congress from the party offered up as the alternative: https://x.com/RepJasmine/status/1897095060518506846

Kill me.

C'mon guys she's young and just trying to be cool and different in her communication.

Give me this any day/all day instead of ANYTHING that comes out of Maxine Water's mouth. Besides, visually the video is quite pleasant. ANY Water's visual is not suitable for young children or the dinner table.

[bobbiemcgee]

Ironic half of the Job cuts go to trump supporters. They lost their jobs for a trump vote.

[GoMuskies]

Huh?

[waggy]

This is a long vid, but it touches on some things. I don't know the answer. The wealthy already essentially pay almost all the taxes, but is it enough?

I do think as far as costs go that healthcare is the biggest problem. And honestly I'll never trust the healthcare system in part due to the covid response.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COH6QDKvcYs

[waggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G01ExlJb8M

[hoopster68]

How do Rethuglicans justify giving trillions to billionaires & millionaires in continued tax cuts while cutting Medicaid to the most neediest of Americans? Is it waste, fraud & abuse? No, it's child abuse. Every Rethuglican that votes to continue the massive tax cuts for corporations and the wealthiest is simply abusing kids, old folks and the disabled. How many of those kids, old folks and disabled live in "red" districts? I'll bet they'll never have another town hall til after the '26 election!

[GoMuskies]

That's dumb

[Xuperman]

That's dumb

Yes it is. Hoopster seems to be trending LLLLeft.

[hoopster68]

Yes it is. Hoopster seems to be trending LLLLeft.

Not trending left, but proudly left. I'll stand with kids, elderly and the disabled any day. You take the billionaires and their immense tax cuts.

[paulxu]

A perfect example of the waste generated by tech bros following a guy looking for scoring points,not providing leadership=waste of necessary resources.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/07/climate/trump-doge-california-water/index.html

[Muskie in dayton]

How do Rethuglicans justify giving trillions to billionaires & millionaires in continued tax cuts while cutting Medicaid to the most neediest of Americans? Is it waste, fraud & abuse? No, it's child abuse. Every Rethuglican that votes to continue the massive tax cuts for corporations and the wealthiest is simply abusing kids, old folks and the disabled. How many of those kids, old folks and disabled live in "red" districts? I'll bet they'll never have another town hall til after the '26 election!
Stop listening to DumboRat lies. Everything you said is factually incorrect and emotion-based arguments. It’s out-dated political mantra that may have held some truth in 1990, but time has proven to be false.

But seeing as how you are stuck in the past, I see why you still play these old tapes. Wake the fuck up.

[Muskie in dayton]

This would be absolutely hilarious if it weren’t true.
https://x.com/ksorbs/status/1896738375140602348?s=46

[hoopster68]

Stop listening to DumboRat lies. Everything you said is factually incorrect and emotion-based arguments. It’s out-dated political mantra that may have held some truth in 1990, but time has proven to be false.

But seeing as how you are stuck in the past, I see why you still play these old tapes. Wake the fuck up.

MID: "Everything you said is factually incorrect": Yes or No: Do the massive tax cuts given to the top 2% and corporations add to the deficit or don't they? Please, a simple Yes or No.

[Xuperman]

Here is the original Trump tax cuts recently explained in a way that just about anyone can understand

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2025/02/28/who-benefited-most-from-trumps-tax-cuts-the-answer-may-surprise-you/

[Strange Brew]

MID: "Everything you said is factually incorrect": Yes or No: Do the massive tax cuts given to the top 2% and corporations add to the deficit or don't they? Please, a simple Yes or No.

No.

[Xuperman]

No.

Basically.

It's WAY to complicated for a "yes or no" anyway. It's like asking any leftist "put a number on the "rich" paying their "fair share". They never will.

[GoMuskies]

Basically.

It's WAY to complicated for a "yes or no" anyway. It's like asking any leftist "put a number on the "rich" paying their "fair share". They never will.

Sure they will. That number is always "more".

[paulxu]

Well, they added trillions to the debt under Bush and Trump.
So I’m sure it’ll be different this time.

[waggy]

I don't know if the top 2% is taxed at a different percentage than the top 5 or 10 percent. The money these people have influences Both parties, and so even if they should be taxed differently it doesn't happen because both sides want their money. The "tax break for billionaires" by the left is just more bullshit.

[hoopster68]

Basically.

It's WAY to complicated for a "yes or no" anyway. It's like asking any leftist "put a number on the "rich" paying their "fair share". They never will.

SB & Xman: Too bad neither of you could offer an honest, straightforward answer: Yes or No. According to virtually every economist these tax cuts added billions to the federal deficit. If they are extended in the next few weeks (as appears likely) the country will fall further into debt. Is this what you want? Where is the Rethuglican "leadership" to propose a meaningful compromise with Dems? As they have shouted since the election, R's now control both the House & Senate; with such control comes responsibility. Too bad that word ("responsibility") seems outside Rethuglican thinking.

[Strange Brew]

SB & Xman: Too bad neither of you could offer an honest, straightforward answer: Yes or No. According to virtually every economist these tax cuts added billions to the federal deficit. If they are extended in the next few weeks (as appears likely) the country will fall further into debt. Is this what you want? Where is the Rethuglican "leadership" to propose a meaningful compromise with Dems? As they have shouted since the election, R's now control both the House & Senate; with such control comes responsibility. Too bad that word ("responsibility") seems outside Rethuglican thinking.

I flatly said No.

Jeez, you’re not very bright.

Quick name 3 Economist that made that claim. :)

[paulxu]

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/house-republican-budgets-45-trillion-tax-cut-doubles-down-on-costly

https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/extending-trump-tax-cuts-would-add-46-trillion-to-the-deficit-cbo-finds

https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-did-tcja-affect-federal-budget-outlook

[Strange Brew]

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/house-republican-budgets-45-trillion-tax-cut-doubles-down-on-costly

https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/extending-trump-tax-cuts-would-add-46-trillion-to-the-deficit-cbo-finds

https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-did-tcja-affect-federal-budget-outlook

Paul.


The 4.5T number is not due to new cuts.
The number is over 10 years so -450B/year (Projected).
That number will not cover the interest on the debt.

So, the problem is spending.

Further, taxing US companies has a similar affect as a tariff.

[paulxu]

Not "further" taxing.
Further tax cuts.
Those add to the debt. We were fine in 2000 before all these cuts.
We had a surplus and responsible people would use it to pay down the debt.
Yes, cutting spend helps too. But we were fine.

[Strange Brew]

Not "further" taxing.
Further tax cuts.
Those add to the debt. We were fine in 2000 before all these cuts.
We had a surplus and responsible people would use it to pay down the debt.
Yes, cutting spend helps too. But we were fine.

It’s an extension of the existing rates.

Responsible people? Name the last time Dems cut spending. The Clinton surplus was due to the R Congress.

Cutting spending is only way at this point.

[hoopster68]

Paul.


The 4.5T number is not due to new cuts.
The number is over 10 years so -450B/year (Projected).
That number will not cover the interest on the debt.

So, the problem is spending.

Further, taxing US companies has a similar affect as a tariff.

SB: The tax cuts approved in Trump's first term added appx. $1.9T to the national debt. Google it! Continuing these tax cuts will add to the debt. What is so difficult to understand? My solution is discontinue the tax cuts for both individuals and corporations (corporate is perpetual right now) while making "reasonable reductions" to spending. All areas of the federal budget need examination. Find areas to cut + add income by reversing the tax cuts; Trump can claim a victory; Johnson can plead for reason from the Freedom Caucus, while Schumer has to bring in the Dems. This is called legislating for the good of the country!

[Strange Brew]

SB: The tax cuts approved in Trump's first term added appx. $1.9T to the national debt. Google it! Continuing these tax cuts will add to the debt. What is so difficult to understand? My solution is discontinue the tax cuts for both individuals and corporations (corporate is perpetual right now) while making "reasonable reductions" to spending. All areas of the federal budget need examination. Find areas to cut + add income by reversing the tax cuts; Trump can claim a victory; Johnson can plead for reason from the Freedom Caucus, while Schumer has to bring in the Dems. This is called legislating for the good of the country!

No, they didn’t.

You can’t say my debt increased because I made less money.

Big cuts first. Then we can talk taxes.

Also, tax receipts have been going up last time I checked.

[hoopster68]

No, they didn’t.

You can’t say my debt increased because I made less money.

Big cuts first. Then we can talk taxes.

Also, tax receipts have been going up last time I checked.

SB: "No they didn't" ? The tax cuts added appx. $1.9T to the national debt. What can't you see? If you continue these cuts, the debt goes up even more.

[Strange Brew]

SB: "No they didn't" ? The tax cuts added appx. $1.9T to the national debt. What can't you see? If you continue these cuts, the debt goes up even more.

How did they do that?

[XU_Lou]

I hate to break it to you libs, but tax revenues have been range bound since the mid-1950s:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=1Ei7k&height=490


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S

[XU_Lou]

Even as the top tax rates have plunged:

https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/FBIP-MAIN-17.jpg


https://www.federalbudgetinpictures.com/high-tax-rates-dont-raise-receipts/

[XU_Lou]

In fact, as the top tax rates have declined, the share paid by the rich has increased:

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/taxes.png?x85095

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-the-inverse-relationship-between-the-top-marginal-income-tax-rate-and-the-tax-burden-on-the-rich/

[XU_Lou]

"As Congress and the administration debate the need for tax increases in the debt deal, economist and Mercatus scholar Antony Davies shows that historically, altering the top marginal income tax rate has had no effect on tax revenue as a fraction of GDP. The same is true for the average marginal tax rate, Social Security and Medicare tax rates, the effective corporate tax rate, and the capital gains tax rate. The following series of charts illustrates these relationships: "

https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/ADavies-average-marginal-income-tax-rates-4-PDF_0.jpg

https://www.mercatus.org/research/data-visualizations/tax-rates-vs-tax-revenues

[XU_Lou]

The problem is spending (period).

[hoopster68]

"As Congress and the administration debate the need for tax increases in the debt deal, economist and Mercatus scholar Antony Davies shows that historically, altering the top marginal income tax rate has had no effect on tax revenue as a fraction of GDP. The same is true for the average marginal tax rate, Social Security and Medicare tax rates, the effective corporate tax rate, and the capital gains tax rate. The following series of charts illustrates these relationships: "

https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/ADavies-average-marginal-income-tax-rates-4-PDF_0.jpg

https://www.mercatus.org/research/data-visualizations/tax-rates-vs-tax-revenues

Lou: All your charts do nothing to answer the question: did the Trump tax cuts add appx. $1.9T to the national debt or not? If they added to the debt, and you say you want to reduce the debt, why extend the cuts? Note my earlier comment: spending needs to be reduced while revenue needs to be increased. Why can't Rethuglicans make a deal? Why do Libertarians want government services but refuse to pay for it?

[Strange Brew]

Lou: All your charts do nothing to answer the question: did the Trump tax cuts add appx. $1.9T to the national debt or not? If they added to the debt, and you say you want to reduce the debt, why extend the cuts? Note my earlier comment: spending needs to be reduced while revenue needs to be increased. Why can't Rethuglicans make a deal? Why do Libertarians want government services but refuse to pay for it?

His charts tell you they did not. Jeez.

[XU_Lou]

Lou: All your charts do nothing to answer the question: did the Trump tax cuts add appx. $1.9T to the national debt or not? If they added to the debt, and you say you want to reduce the debt, why extend the cuts? Note my earlier comment: spending needs to be reduced while revenue needs to be increased. Why can't Rethuglicans make a deal? Why do Libertarians want government services but refuse to pay for it?

Do you understand that increases in taxes lowers economic activity, which therefore lower tax revenue? And then vice versa, where decreases in taxes increases economic activity, which therefore increases tax revenue. There's a balance in there, called the Laffer Curve. As you can see from the 1st chart, despite the ups and downs of the tax rates over the last 70 years, revenues remain within a range. There's very little correlation between rates and revenues.

So, no, Trumps tax cuts did not raise the debt when you understand the Laffer Curve. The only solution to our problem is to decrease spending.

This is basic economics.

BTW, where in the Constitution does it say that Congress can bankrupt the country?

[paulxu]

His charts tell you they did not. Jeez.

GDP is not the same thing as the national debt.

[paulxu]

You can’t say my debt increased because I made less money.

Keep putting things on your credit card when you make less money. See if your debt doesn't increase.
Report back in one year.

[Strange Brew]

Keep putting things on your credit card when you make less money. See if your debt doesn't increase.
Report back in one year.

I think you just made my point. Stop or slash spending.

[Strange Brew]

GDP is not the same thing as the national debt.

Yes, I know that Paul. I also know why GDP per or % is relevant to the conversation.