Heroin

[PM Thor]

My perspective, as a first responder.

We don't care about the why or the where or the how. The city, and the surrounding area, are getting absolutely slammed with overdoses. I was on my dip on the ambulance the other day, we had 18 runs in 24 hours. 7 were drug related. Now, just extrapolate that out. And this is speaking to the problem days after 170 ODs in 3 days in Cincy. Cincinnati has 12 ambulances (paramedic) units. We ran all day. Went from Jewish Kenwood to Mt Washington to Downtown....

I saw a mid 30 year old who wrecked his car when he ODed into two parked cars. Some guy in his 40s who was out cold in a parking lot. A parent with kids in the car...and a teenager.

This is a Public Health Emergency. Why aren't the politicians addressing the issue?

Please, please try to help those you can. It's a terrible situation. If you can make any kind of difference, please, just try. I'm tired of using Narcan to be honest. It weighs....

[XU 87]

What do you propose politicians do to protect people from their own reckless behavior?

[PM Thor]

What do you propose politicians do to protect people from their own reckless behavior?

I've transported a vet who Od'ed....because he wasn't getting the proper medication at the VA. He wasn't the only one, well he said that he went to the VA looking for pain meds for PTSD and wounds. The VA cut him off from his pain meds, turned to the only thing that was readily available...which is hard drugs...ala heroin.

So you blame him for his reckless behavior?

We need solutions 87, not finger pointing.

[xu82]

My perspective, as a first responder.

We don't care about the why or the where or the how. The city, and the surrounding area, are getting absolutely slammed with overdoses. I was on my dip on the ambulance the other day, we had 18 runs in 24 hours. 7 were drug related. Now, just extrapolate that out. And this is speaking to the problem days after 170 ODs in 3 days in Cincy. Cincinnati has 12 ambulances (paramedic) units. We ran all day. Went from Jewish Kenwood to Mt Washington to Downtown....

I saw a mid 30 year old who wrecked his car when he ODed into two parked cars. Some guy in his 40s who was out cold in a parking lot. A parent with kids in the car...and a teenager.

This is a Public Health Emergency. Why aren't the politicians addressing the issue?



My perspective, as a parent:

It's something that is all around you, but you probably are not aware of. It is friggin' everywhere, but most parents are in shock and will hide it all costs. I can tell you, it is all around you! We were fortunate and our son is now helping people who want to survive. He's an admission counselor (selling rehab and the crazy cost, while working with insurance companies) at a facility making good money, but more importantly getting letters from people who literally say "you saved my life". People who get those notes are blessed, and deservedly so. PM THOR, how does that make you feel?

[xu82]

What do you propose politicians do to protect people from their own reckless behavior?

Well, let's start with pill mills. Did you realize 85% of the oxycodone in the country was sold in Florida? Why is that? If you think it's just reckless behavior, you are completely ignorant on the subject. Sit back and learn before embarrassing yourself.

[PM Thor]

That's great! I wish more people just tried.

Maybe in my years on the fire department I've become just tired. I know I cant change the world, but if enough of us just try, maybe, just maybe...

Heroin is a bitch. I hate it. It gets really just frustrating, you know? I learned at X to serve my fellow man, but when your fellow man doesn't seem to change, constantly making the horrible mistakes....It is just frustrating. But on we go.

[xu82]

They try, and they hope, they want, but some just can't get out. I've typed this here before, but my sons have attended more funerals than I have. That really sucks.

[nuts4xu]

I live in Mt Washington, and each and every day I see people who have become zombies because of the Heroin. What scares me is the fentanil and carfentanil they are cutting it with. Heroin is scary enough, but this man made stuff is 50 times stronger than heroin. It comes from China, and they don't need fields of poppy plants to make the stuff. It is way cheaper and far more dangerous than straight heroin, and heroin alone will kill people.

In this region of the country, it is not easy to get a script of opiods any more. Even for surgeries, they are prescribing far less percocets and vicodin than they used to and the docs are very reluctant to give you a refill. It is too little too late for today's addicts, but it's a step in the right direction. I don't know what the answers are, but it is surreal how big of a problem this crap has become.

[xubrew]

Well, let's start with pill mills. Did you realize 85% of the oxycodone in the country was sold in Florida? Why is that? If you think it's just reckless behavior, you are completely ignorant on the subject. Sit back and learn before embarrassing yourself.

The pill mills are a GREAT place to start. Most pain medication such as oxycontin is basically heroin, and doctors seem to be giving more and more of it out as if it were Halloween candy. I would have never guessed that 85 percent of oxycodone (which is also basically heroin) was sold in Florida. My God! As much of it is everywhere else, how the hell much of it is being sold in Florida?

This isn't really in the press yet, but there is more and more of it in college athletics now. That's hardly surprising since there is more and more of it everywhere now. I think it is a direct result of kids getting injured and having surgery, and then being given way more medicine than they need of what is basically heroin. They either keep it for themselves or give it to their friends, and once it's gone they realize that it's very easy to get it refilled, or there's more of it out there on the street if they want to keep using it.

But, in general, heroin is both potent and easy to obtain. Hence, the problem. The pill mills aren't the only reason it's a problem, but they are certainly one of the biggest reasons. And yes, I think the government should look into it.

[GoMuskies]

I might try it if they put it in beer.

[XU 87]

I like this solution:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2016/09/01/chief-let-us-force-addicts-into-treatment/89728698/

[NY44]

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you think otherwise, you're never going to solve the problem. And yes, taking heroin is reckless behavior. That said, I like this solution:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2016/09/01/chief-let-us-force-addicts-into-treatment/89728698/

"Be responsible for your own actions!"
Addict: "Ok!"

Boom. Problem solved. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?

On a more serious note, do you actually like that solution? Where does the funding for that medical treatment come from? I'm all for it.

[xubrew]

Manufacturing and over-supplying heroin in the form of pain medication is also reckless behavior, and the people who do so should also be held accountable right along with the users.

I'd like to take a moment to congratulate drugs....for winning the War on Drugs!!

[XU 87]

"Be responsible for your own actions!"
Addict: "Ok!"

Boom. Problem solved. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?

On a more serious note, do you actually like that solution? Where does the funding for that medical treatment come from? I'm all for it.

Hey, I deleted the first part before you posted it (even though I still agree with it).

And yes, I like the solution.

(That new building on the Cincinnati Banks sure looks nice.)

[xu82]

The pill mills are a GREAT place to start. Most pain medication such as oxycontin is basically heroin, and doctors seem to be giving more and more of it out as if it were Halloween candy. I would have never guessed that 85 percent of oxycodone (which is also basically heroin) was sold in Florida. My God! As much of it is everywhere else, how the hell much of it is being sold in Florida?

This isn't really in the press yet, but there is more and more of it in college athletics now. That's hardly surprising since there is more and more of it everywhere now. I think it is a direct result of kids getting injured and having surgery, and then being given way more medicine than they need of what is basically heroin. They either keep it for themselves or give it to their friends, and once it's gone they realize that it's very easy to get it refilled, or there's more of it out there on the street if they want to keep using it.

But, in general, heroin is both potent and easy to obtain. Hence, the problem. The pill mills aren't the only reason it's a problem, but they are certainly one of the biggest reasons. And yes, I think the government should look into it.

I have a good friend with chronic back problems. His doctor said to him "hey, it's nothing personal, but Oxy shouldn't be prescribed to anyone for any reason. It's way too addictive and there are better ways to treat pain". Yet people used to come from all over to buy it in Florida because the governor felt that a database was an invasion of privacy. So, you could drive in from West Virginia, hit a dozen "docs", get a dozen prescriptions and go back home to sell them. That has changed some since the governor's former attorney had his grand daughter die at his house. When he made the condolence call he got an earful, and things quietly started to change.

My son's story started with a broken ankle in HS basketball. Terrible injury and almost had to I have his ankle fused. We didn't see it at the time, but that was the beginning of some seriously bad times. He wasn't out looking for trouble. It wasn't his "plan". Shit happens. I'm sure in college sports they will do almost anything to get back into the games. Unlike the pro's, they can't afford the cost of pills forever and the next available option is heroin. We're pretty open about it because some people need help and direction. I can't tell you how many people have come up to us quietly in all different settings and said "can we talk?" Sometimes people we barely know. People you wouldn't know are going through this with a family member. It's a big damn deal.

[NY44]

Hey, I deleted the first part before you posted it (even though I still agree with it). Personal responsibility seems to be a touchy subject with some.

And yes, I like the solution.

(That new building on the Cincinnati Banks sure looks nice.)

Hahah I wouldn't know about the building. I left GE in mid 2015.

[SemajParlor]

Any other Howard fanatics in here? Artie Lange's experience with H scared me away from even talking about hard drugs.

[xubrew]

Any Philip K Dick fans out there?? Heroin = Substance D.

[Juice]

I would start with electing judges who will hold these people's feet to the fire with treatment and when they choose to not attend, or leave treatment, or don't abide by the rules then punish them. The problem is that there are no consequences for when these people are given treatment but never follow up on it. It's a second chance, then a third chance, and a fourth chance...

[XU 87]

I would start with electing judges who will hold these people's feet to the fire with treatment and when they choose to not attend, or leave treatment, or don't abide by the rules then punish them. The problem is that there are no consequences for when these people are given treatment but never follow up on it. It's a second chance, then a third chance, and a fourth chance...

Is that, at least in part, because of lack of jail space?

[Juice]

Is that, at least in part, because of lack of jail space?

Lack of jail space, not a big of a problem with a lack of prison space.

[xu82]

I have a friend who's son spent about a year in jail getting clean while they haggled over what to do with him. He was allowed back into drug court (which is unusual) and is, at this moment, doing just fine. Holding down a job and having a decent life. The sheriff told my friend about 90% of the people locked up are drug related in some way. That's insane!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Lol, the Scanner Darkly reference. I love that author FYI. Not many people realize that Minority Report, Paycheck, Total Recall, and Adjustment Bureau are all based on his books. Dude wrote some pretty crazy stuff.

How long until this thread becomes a legalized marijuana discussion?

10 years ago, I crashed at mile ~85 in a century race and basically face planted into the concrete. I had a fractured orbital bone, severe concussion, and shattered my helmet which absorbed about half the blow (probably dead without it). I was in the lead group also, but anyway. Doctor wanted to give me percoset for the pain of my face and two broken ribs. I pass on it because of how addictive that stuff is. I just lived with the pain.

The doctor was very quick to grab his note pad for it, it was all troubling.


Any Philip K Dick fans out there?? Heroin = Substance D.

[xubrew]

Lol, the Scanner Darkly reference. I love that author FYI. Not many people realize that Minority Report, Paycheck, Total Recall, and Adjustment Bureau are all based on his books. Dude wrote some pretty crazy stuff.

How long until this thread becomes a legalized marijuana discussion?

10 years ago, I crashed at mile ~85 in a century race and basically face planted into the concrete. I had a fractured orbital bone, severe concussion, and shattered my helmet which absorbed about half the blow (probably dead without it). I was in the lead group also, but anyway. Doctor wanted to give me percoset for the pain of my face and two broken ribs. I pass on it because of how addictive that stuff is. I just lived with the pain.

The doctor was very quick to grab his note pad for it, it was all troubling.

You forgot Bladerunner.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Didn't forget, I just think most people know that was him. I believe and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he help write the movie version? I believe the guy who did Bladerunner also did Soldier with Kurt Russel (made a comment how he imagined in the same universe as Bladerunner).


You forgot Bladerunner.

[ammtd34]

My brother married into a family with someone who broke their leg playing soccer in high school. He became addicted to his prescription and turned to heroin when it ran out. He's been in and out of rehab a ton and was given Narcan after an OD last year.

Prison can't be the answer. It's hard enough for a recovering opioid addict to get a job, let alone an opioid addict who has just been out of jail without proper withdrawal treatment.

[Juice]

My brother married into a family with someone who broke their leg playing soccer in high school. He became addicted to his prescription and turned to heroin when it ran out. He's been in and out of rehab a ton and was given Narcan after an OD last year.

Prison can't be the answer. It's hard enough for a recovering opioid addict to get a job, let alone an opioid addict who has just been out of jail without proper withdrawal treatment.

As I said before treatment first then prison. Heroin addicts are given more chances at treatment than you people will ever know. Many either don't follow the rules/guidelines or do for a bit then stop. At what point do you say enough is enough and lock them away? After they've stolen all of their family's money? Or after another gets behind the wheel and hurts or kills someone else. Because there are currently rumors that heroin addicts are purposefully shooting up and then driving because they know if they OD, the police will respond quicker if a traffic accident is involved versus them lying on the floor somewhere.

[LadyMuskie]

Addiction is a disease with no cure. The only hope an addict has, be it an addict of alcohol, drugs, food, or whatever else is to learn to control the craving so that it doesn't become too powerful on a day by day basis. So, while heroin addiction can't be cured, it can - if the addict so chooses - be controlled and maintained. That's a choice only one person, the addict, can make. Forcing him does no good as he will, most assuredly, relapse. At some point, we have to be realistic. If a person has been offered help to get clean and repeatedly turns it down or ignores it, then how many more resources does that person deserve? And at what stake? How much does society pay (not just monetarily, but in safety, etc.) to help someone who does not want help? I don't know the answer, but at some point I do think the "second chances" have to end. Some people just don't want the help.

[bigdiggins]

If we stopped wasting taxpayer money on Narcan the demand for the heroin would go down. Many an anecdotal story about using it on the same person multiple times in a week, but that person of course refusing further help. Unfortunately too many people truly don't want to get better and/or stay clean. Not sure how politicians can address that. Yes I know this proposed solution would sacrifice the miniscule % of people who do recover and go on to lead productive lives, but I'm an @ss like that.

[MADXSTER]

Pain Management Centers IMO are legalized drugs pushing zones. It is truely sad how easy it is to get hard drugs. But hey, doctors need to make a living too.

[muskiefan82]

I've transported a vet who Od'ed....because he wasn't getting the proper medication at the VA. He wasn't the only one, well he said that he went to the VA looking for pain meds for PTSD and wounds. The VA cut him off from his pain meds, turned to the only thing that was readily available...which is hard drugs...ala heroin.

So you blame him for his reckless behavior?

We need solutions 87, not finger pointing.

I want to defend the VA here. It would be criminal (IMO) to continue to prescribe addictive medicines when there are other therapies available without the consequences. Those days are over. Oxycontin and other opioids CAN'T continue to be a pain solution. They mask rather than fix and present a larger problem down the road. The VA gets a bad rap when, frankly, they are one of the few groups actively working to try and manage this issue. They are the largest provider of heroin substitution therapy to get people off of Heroin and they actively work to find alternative therapies to reduce the use of opioid meds. Yes, to those addicted, the change can seem abrupt and this may send them to alternative sources of hard drugs, but the VA is actually trying to help the Veteran in these cases. Continued prescribing of opioids is not the answer. This Vet had other options. I guarantee it. He chose Heroin because he wanted the meds rather than a treatment plan.

[Juice]

Pain Management Centers IMO are legalized drugs pushing zones. It is truely sad how easy it is to get hard drugs. But hey, doctors need to make a living too.

I agree that pain meds are a huge problem related to heroin but most heroin addicts I come into contact with through work are addicted because they decided to use heroin. It's hard to have sympathy for a person who uses heroin knowing that the effects and risks are probably the worst of any recreational drug.

[xu82]

I agree that pain meds are a huge problem related to heroin but most heroin addicts I come into contact with through work are addicted because they decided to use heroin. It's hard to have sympathy for a person who uses heroin knowing that the effects and risks are probably the worst of any recreational drug.

We've been down this road before. Do you think some bright eyed high school kid woke up one day and said "hey, I think I'll try a little heroin today!". This shows a lack of deep comprehension. I'll try not to pound on this, but......are you effing kidding? No one tries heroin at the starting line. They fucking hate the idea of it! It disgusts them, before and after they use it.

[Juice]

We've been down this road before. Do you think some bright eyed high school kid woke up one day and said "hey, I think I'll try a little heroin today!". This shows a lack of deep comprehension. I'll try not to pound on this, but......are you effing kidding? No one tries heroin at the starting line. They fucking hate the idea of it! It disgusts them, before and after they use it.

So you're saying every heroin addict got there because of pain pills?

[xu82]

So you're saying every heroin addict got there because of pain pills?

Of course not! Speaking in absolute terms is foolishness. Something you did, and I did not. I'll say that many people get hooked on overly available opioids and need to keep it going. When they can't get the pills they turn to heroin. Could you possibly disagree with that? Seriously?

[xubrew]

I would start with electing judges who will hold these people's feet to the fire with treatment and when they choose to not attend, or leave treatment, or don't abide by the rules then punish them. The problem is that there are no consequences for when these people are given treatment but never follow up on it. It's a second chance, then a third chance, and a fourth chance...

I think this is a little bit incomplete. I'm not saying it's not a piece of it, but it's certainly not all of it. There is also the issue of the people who make and supply the drugs. Many people's first thought it to go after the users. In a lot of cases that's their only thought. How about having judges and law enforcement that go after those who are responsible for making it so widely available??

I know this wasn't your quote, but it is utterly ridiculous when people say "what should politicians do to protect people from their own reckless behavior??" Anyone who says this is basically dismissing the notion of it being wrong to manufacture and make available drugs that are highly addictive. If you don't feel that the politicians/law enforcement should do anything because it's simply an issue of personal responsibility, then don't get mad at the guy who gives or sells heroin/pain pills to your kids. It's not their fault. The police shouldn't do anything to them, and the politicians shouldn't be concerned about them. It's merely an issue of personal responsibility.

[xubrew]

So you're saying every heroin addict got there because of pain pills?

Not EVERYONE, but probably a very high percentage of them.

Now, to be clear, I'm not saying all of them (or even most of them) were prescribed pain pills and then became addicted. But, there are so many pain pills out there that most who decide to use heroin recreationally probably started with using pain pills recreationally. They are basically the same thing.

[XUFan09]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23410617

"In 2008-2010, 82.6% of frequent nonmedical users who used heroin in the past year reported nonmedical use of opioid pain relievers prior to heroin initiation compared to 64.1% in 2002-2004."

Even the 64.1% back in the 2002-2004 data is just crazy, but the 82.6% more recently is even more so. It should be noted that not all prescription drug abusers were themselves prescribed the drugs. At least some of them simply had access to someone else with a prescription. Man, when I finished using my Vicodin prescription a few days after surgery, I could have made some good money off the remainder of the bottle instead of tossing it!

To find the proportions for abusers who personally received a prescription, though, I would need to make a greater effort on research than I am willing to do this late at night. There are at least a few breadcrumbs for someone else!

[PM Thor]

I used one example of the VA failing for veterans. I could have cited at least 4-5 more times of hearing virtually the same story from a veteran and how the system was broken, but if I did that, it just becomes white noise.

I'm not blaming the VA for vets using heroin, what I am saying is that it's definitely not on the cutting edge of treating its patients, and quite a few of those patients turn to the last resort to deal with their chronic pain issues.

[Lloyd Braun]

So you're saying every heroin addict got there because of pain pills?

No one tries heroin before morphine/derivatives. Pills are expensive, heroin is a cheap continuation of the high. I thought this was common knowledge?

Edit: this was released a couple days ago. Non-medical use of prescription opioids is associated with heroin initiation among US veterans: a prospective cohort study. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27552496/#fft)

[Juice]

Of course not! Speaking in absolute terms is foolishness. Something you did, and I did not. I'll say that many people get hooked on overly available opioids and need to keep it going. When they can't get the pills they turn to heroin. Could you possibly disagree with that? Seriously?

I agree but the majority of heroin users didn't start that way.

[Juice]

No one tries heroin before morphine/derivatives. Pills are expensive, heroin is a cheap continuation of the high. I thought this was common knowledge?

Edit: this was released a couple days ago. Non-medical use of prescription opioids is associated with heroin initiation among US veterans: a prospective cohort study. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27552496/#fft)

I see heroin users everyday through work. Most of these people are lower class people who could never afford a pill habit. They may not have tried heroin first, but it sure as shit wasn't after a prolonged pill addiction they couldn't afford anymore. And it certainly wasn't some story of a surgery or pain management where they had no intention of getting hooked. Those stories do exist but are the minority.

[XUFan09]

I see heroin users everyday through work. Most of these people are lower class people who could never afford a pill habit. They may not have tried heroin first, but it sure as shit wasn't after a prolonged pill addiction they couldn't afford anymore. And it certainly wasn't some story of a surgery or pain management where they had no intention of getting hooked. Those stories do exist but are the minority.

It sounds like your anecdotal evidence produces a sample of users that is not representative of the population at large.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/05/28/316673753/todays-heroin-addict-is-young-white-and-suburban

"Heroin was once the scourge of the urban poor, but today the typical user is a young, white suburbanite, a study finds."

Edit: Found the original study. http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1874575

[XUFan09]

I agree but the majority of heroin users didn't start that way.

Where are your actual statistics for that? I'm asking sincerely. I've already shown that the vast majority of users started with prescription drugs but was unable to find information on whether the drugs were personally prescribed to them before they started abusing them or if they got them from someone else. Do you actually have information on the latter?

[xu82]

Where are your actual statistics for that? I'm asking sincerely. I've already shown that the vast majority of users started with prescription drugs but was unable to find information on whether the drugs were personally prescribed to them before they started abusing them or if they got them from someone else. Do you actually have information on the latter?

I'd bet a few get them prescribed for them (as was the case with my son), but most just steal from some old supply their parents or someone else has lying around. Throw that shit out! My son tells me "you had it a lot easier, some people had some weak joints and stole some beer from their parents. High school kids today go to a party and have crazy weed, pull Oxy or Percocet from a bowl and down them with Jack Daniels. It goes down hill fast."

[PM Thor]

I see heroin users everyday through work. Most of these people are lower class people who could never afford a pill habit. They may not have tried heroin first, but it sure as shit wasn't after a prolonged pill addiction they couldn't afford anymore. And it certainly wasn't some story of a surgery or pain management where they had no intention of getting hooked. Those stories do exist but are the minority.

Most definitely a majority are of the lower class, that is, without a doubt, fact. We were talking to a guy who OD'ed and just asked why he didn't buy a 6 pack and chill, because you can get a pretty good buzz off of that. His answer? Heroin is cheaper. That's what we are up against.

[Xville]

You know what makes me absolutely sick and disgusted with the human race? Seeing a new mom completely drugged out of her mind going to see her new drugged out baby in the nicu. That's what I saw today and 1.) It pissed me off because that person probably had zero trouble getting pregnant, while others have a heck of a time and 2.) It made me sad because that kid is pretty much screwed from the start. I don't know how to do it, but those people's reproductive organs need to be taken out immediately I'm sorry.

[xu82]

If we stopped wasting taxpayer money on Narcan the demand for the heroin would go down. Many an anecdotal story about using it on the same person multiple times in a week, but that person of course refusing further help. Unfortunately too many people truly don't want to get better and/or stay clean. Not sure how politicians can address that. Yes I know this proposed solution would sacrifice the miniscule % of people who do recover and go on to lead productive lives, but I'm an @ss like that.

I totally understand that that's how it looks, but I can assure you that the overwhelmingly vast majority desperately wants to get better. It is the insidious nature of addiction that makes it look otherwise. While we've never used taxpayers dollars for Narcan for our son, you might feel differently if your child was in that "minuscule %", or even one who never made it. Don't get me wrong, this whole thing sucks and I'm a financial conservative, but maybe we have different perspectives. There is a general lack of understanding on this issue. I wish I was more ignorant.....

(I know some of you are probably asking if that's even possible!)

[NY44]

Drug Linked to Ohio Overdoses Can Kill in Doses Smaller than a Snowflake - NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/06/us/ohio-cincinnati-overdoses-carfentanil-heroin.html?emc=eta1&_r=0)

[ammtd34]

I totally understand that that's how it looks, but I can assure you that the overwhelmingly vast majority desperately wants to get better. It is the insidious nature of addiction that makes it look otherwise. While we've never used taxpayers dollars for Narcan for our son, you might feel differently if your child was in that "minuscule %", or even one who never made it. Don't get me wrong, this whole thing sucks and I'm a financial conservative, but maybe we have different perspectives. There is a general lack of understanding on this issue. I wish I was more ignorant.....

(I know some of you are probably asking if that's even possible!)

That has been my experience, too. Sometimes, they just can't.

Whenever this topic comes up, I think about this Layne Staley interview. (http://www.mtv.com/news/1470138/late-alice-in-chains-singer-layne-staleys-last-interview-revealed-in-new-book/)


"I know I'm dying," he rasped through missing teeth. "I'm not doing well. Don't try to talk about this to my sister Liz. She will know it sooner or later."

"This f---ing drug use is like the insulin a diabetic needs to survive," he said. "I'm not using drugs to get high like many people think. I know I made a big mistake when I started using this sh--. It's a very difficult thing to explain. My liver is not functioning and I'm throwing up all the time and sh---ing my pants. The pain is more than you can handle. It's the worst pain in the world. Dope sick hurts the entire body."

[xu82]

Hey! Cincinnati made the NBC national news tonight! They had 174 overdoses in a 6 day period. Synthetic crap in there making it even worse. Just out of control....

[PM Thor]

Hey! Cincinnati made the NBC national news tonight! They had 174 overdoses in a 6 day period. Synthetic crap in there making it even worse. Just out of control....

HA!! 174 Ods? That's not even close. That's the number reported. Not even close.

[xu82]

HA!! 174 Ods? That's not even close. That's the number reported. Not even close.
Ahh, but of course, always the case. Jeez....

[PM Thor]

Ahh, but of course, always the case. Jeez....

In the last two weeks the CFD has been told to call in every run that involves drugs as "drug related" runs, before that we weren't told to do that. Why now? I'll just leave that here....

[ChicagoX]

This is so messed up...

Ohio police post shocking photos of adults who overdosed with 4-year-old in vehicle (http://wgntv.com/2016/09/09/ohio-police-post-photos-of-adults-who-overdosed-with-4-year-old-in-backseat-of-car/)

At what point does this become a public health emergency?

[bigdiggins]

This is so messed up...

Ohio police post shocking photos of adults who overdosed with 4-year-old in vehicle (http://wgntv.com/2016/09/09/ohio-police-post-photos-of-adults-who-overdosed-with-4-year-old-in-backseat-of-car/)

At what point does this become a public health emergency?

If they had not administered the Narcan that would eliminate two users from being a potential public health emergency in the future and that 4 year old may actually have a chance in life.

[xubrew]

If they had not administered the Narcan that would eliminate two users from being a potential public health emergency in the future and that 4 year old may actually have a chance in life.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

[GoMuskies]

Sounds like the kid is in child protective services custody, so hopefully he will be sent elsewhere and be okay (though probably not). As for the parents, no need to let them die there. They'll surely kill themselves one way or another shortly.

[Juice]

This is so messed up...

Ohio police post shocking photos of adults who overdosed with 4-year-old in vehicle (http://wgntv.com/2016/09/09/ohio-police-post-photos-of-adults-who-overdosed-with-4-year-old-in-backseat-of-car/)

At what point does this become a public health emergency?

Besides the danger posed to the 4 year old, you know how many times innocent people are injured or killed when these jackasses decide to use while driving? It's absolute bullshit. It goes from a personal/family problem to a societal problem when others are being hurt simply for driving on the same road.

[PM Thor]

If they had not administered the Narcan that would eliminate two users from being a potential public health emergency in the future and that 4 year old may actually have a chance in life.

I made 3 ODs yesterday at work, had to bag two of them while we waited at least 10 minutes for medic units coming from across town (because we are shorthanded) and it was a slow day. I understand your frustration with the situation, but your solution isn't a solution, and it wouldn't work. There's always going to be addicts.

Plus, just think what it would do to the Responders. We would have the ability to help people, and are told not to do so. I can't speak for others, but that would really mess me up. The job isn't to judge, it's to help when you can. I mean, if someone left a candle burning and it caught an owners house on fire, nobody would be saying "Let it burn, that's what they deserve for being dumb".

And it is a public heath emergency, even if it's not being labelled that way.

[xu82]

Besides the danger posed to the 4 year old, you know how many times innocent people are injured or killed when these jackasses decide to use while driving? It's absolute bullshit. It goes from a personal/family problem to a societal problem when others are being hurt simply for driving on the same road.

Can't argue that at all. Of course, you're probably far more likely to be hit by a drunk driver. If I had the answers I'd share them... But this is out of control.