Copa Centenario Starts Today

[xubrew]

So, I still don't know how to gage the importance or relevance of this event. It's a tournament that features the likes of Brazil, Argentina, and Colombia, and it's probably the biggest soccer tournament the United States has hosted since 1994, or that we will ever host in the foreseeable future.

Now, having said that, does anyone in South America give a shit?? When they announced they were doing this four years ago, I thought that it was going to be THE Copa America. Instead, it is a second Copa America. The real one that the countries actually care about, and that feeds into the Confederations Cup, and that counts as cup games instead of friendlies in the FIFA rankings, took place last year.

So, it's great that we're hosting it, but.....I still don't know what to make of it. Is it just a bunch of meaningless friendlies between some really good teams, or does it actually mean something?

I'm going to the games in Chicago and Philly, and am actually stopping off in Cincinnati tomorrow, and am gonna try and go to the CFC game while I'm there. So, if anyone's gonna be out on the road going to any of these games give me a shout.

[XMuskieFTW]

I've been looking forward to this tournament for some time. We really should get out of the group, especially at home, but with Jurgen at the helm, I have little expectations. Aside from the WC and confed cup, this is the biggest tournament we play in. Even though it may be more for pride, I'd rather win this than a Gold Cup.

I'm really hoping this event goes well and can feed into becoming a bigger event. Would love to see this become our version of the Euros with it happening every 4 years.

[xubrew]

I've been looking forward to this tournament for some time. We really should get out of the group, especially at home, but with Jurgen at the helm, I have little expectations. Aside from the WC and confed cup, this is the biggest tournament we play in. Even though it may be more for pride, I'd rather win this than a Gold Cup.

I'm really hoping this event goes well and can feed into becoming a bigger event. Would love to see this become our version of the Euros with it happening every 4 years.

I love this event as well. We used to always be in it. It was the ten South American countries, us, and Mexico. Now instead of us they just have sort of a wild card team every four years. Last year it was Jamaica. In 1995 we actually made it to the semifinals. It was the first time other than the 1994 WC that we had not completely sucked in a major tournament. Then, they quit inviting us. I think the reason was because the MLS calendar wasn't conducive to it. But...whatever.

[Muskie]

So, I still don't know how to gage the importance or relevance of this event. It's a tournament that features the likes of Brazil, Argentina, and Colombia, and it's probably the biggest soccer tournament the United States has hosted since 1994, or that we will ever host in the foreseeable future.

Now, having said that, does anyone in South America give a shit?? When they announced they were doing this four years ago, I thought that it was going to be THE Copa America. Instead, it is a second Copa America. The real one that the countries actually care about, and that feeds into the Confederations Cup, and that counts as cup games instead of friendlies in the FIFA rankings, took place last year.

So, it's great that we're hosting it, but.....I still don't know what to make of it. Is it just a bunch of meaningless friendlies between some really good teams, or does it actually mean something?

I'm going to the games in Chicago and Philly, and am actually stopping off in Cincinnati tomorrow, and am gonna try and go to the CFC game while I'm there. So, if anyone's gonna be out on the road going to any of these games give me a shout.

I'm excited, but I question the overall meaning as well.I thought about going to the matches in Chicago, but when I saw the extraordinary ticket prices, I decided against it. Have a blast though.

[X-band '01]

Who gets the money for Copa America - FIFA, CONCACAF/CONMEBOL or the US Soccer Federation?

[Muskie]

Who gets the money for Copa America - FIFA, CONCACAF/CONMEBOL or the US Soccer Federation?

I think the answer is... everyone?

[ammtd34]

I would be pleasantly surprised if we got out of the group simply because our group is really good.

[SM#24]

I would be pleasantly surprised if we got out of the group simply because our group is really good.

and we aren't

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Guys, this is the first time our defense is actually very average. Johnson/Brooks/Cameron/Yedlin is actually a defense that might be decent. It's Jurgen's insistence on relying on Beckerman in the defensive midfield that will kill us. He is slow and Bradley is an up on him. If he plays Zardes instead of Bedoya at midfield or Zardes instead of Wood up front, I know JK just needs to go.

Pulisic just isn't ready to be a starter.

[xubrew]

Who gets the money for Copa America - FIFA, CONCACAF/CONMEBOL or the US Soccer Federation?

They're not giving any of it to me. That's all I know.

[XMuskieFTW]

Guys, this is the first time our defense is actually very average. Johnson/Brooks/Cameron/Yedlin is actually a defense that might be decent. It's Jurgen's insistence on relying on Beckerman in the defensive midfield that will kill us. He is slow and Bradley is an up on him. If he plays Zardes instead of Bedoya at midfield or Zardes instead of Wood up front, I know JK just needs to go.

Pulisic just isn't ready to be a starter.

Yea. This is the first time I've had any confidence in our defense since the 2010 world cup. And how many damn times does Wondo need to be horrible with the USMNT before he stops getting called into the team?

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I sincerely hope that since we have yet to see Wondo, that he stays on the bench. I think JK took him for experience at the forward and Wood as the youth.

I would love to see this...

Wood/Dempsey
Bedoya/Bradley/Jones/Nagbe
Johnson/Brooks/Cameron/Yedlin
Guzan

Push Bedoya and Nagbe up on the wings and have at it.


Yea. This is the first time I've had any confidence in our defense since the 2010 world cup. And how many damn times does Wondo need to be horrible with the USMNT before he stops getting called into the team?

[XMuskieFTW]

My dream lineup for this roster is:

...........................Wood

.........................Dempsey
Nagbe............................................. .Zardes

..............Bradley............Jones

Fabian.......Brooks.......Cameron........Yedlin

.........................Horvath


No chance of it happening though.

[Muskie]

Yea. This is the first time I've had any confidence in our defense since the 2010 world cup. And how many damn times does Wondo need to be horrible with the USMNT before he stops getting called into the team?

Isn't Wondo a "penalty Specialist"? I expect to see him subbed in close games where PK'S could come into play.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Could be, could also be locker room leadership. Either way, I don't want to see Beckerman on the field this tournament unless there is an injury. It's time we roll out Bedoya/Nagbe/Zardes and really just the first two.


Isn't Wondo a "penalty Specialist"? I expect to see him subbed in close games where PK'S could come into play.

[ammtd34]

Having Nagbe and Yedlin on the same side effectively neutralizes Yedlin's biggest strength, unless it morphs closer to a 4-3-3 going forward. If Zardes or Nagbe plays wide directly in front of Yedlin, I'm not sure what purpose Yedlin would be serving.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

It would be in a 4-3-3. If I see Beckerman as the defensive mid and Bradley attacking as usual, it will be a long tournament for the USA.


Having Nagbe and Yedlin on the same side effectively neutralizes Yedlin's biggest strength, unless it morphs closer to a 4-3-3 going forward. If Zardes or Nagbe plays wide directly in front of Yedlin, I'm not sure what purpose Yedlin would be serving.

[Porkopolis]

It would be in a 4-3-3. If I see Beckerman as the defensive mid and Bradley attacking as usual, it will be a long tournament for the USA.

Here is one projection of the starting 11 for tonight; I like the looks of this. http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/Goal_America/c8/87/projected-usa-xi_pmrw4kbwxi9l15fftixneppt5.png?t=391412765

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Win or lose that would be best going forward...Nagbe/Pulisic off the bench with Besler/Birnbaum for defense.


Here is one projection of the starting 11 for tonight; I like the looks of this. http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/Goal_America/c8/87/projected-usa-xi_pmrw4kbwxi9l15fftixneppt5.png?t=391412765

[Muskie]

Someone should tell the USMNT that the gurney started tonight. Already down 1-0 on a team that everyone agrees they needed to strike early for the advantage.


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[Porkopolis]

2-0 now. Not good.

[LA Muskie]

This is embarrassing. We look like shite.


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[Muskie]

This is embarrassing. We look like shite.


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Lucky not to be down 3-0 after that shot off the post.


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[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm no futbol expert but I'll pretend to be one on the Internet - Michael Bradley is terrible.

[Muskie]

Brew you might be in for a long night in Chicago.


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[Muskie]

I'm no futbol expert but I'll pretend to be one on the Internet - Michael Bradley is terrible.

Why exactly? The lazy passing? The fact that he's somewhat slow?




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[Porkopolis]

Bradley looked totally overmatched and out of place. JK needs to play the youngsters.

[Muskie]

Bradley looked totally overmatched and out of place. JK needs to play the youngsters.

What can it hurt at this point? (Although if they don't make it of group perhaps JK could be in trouble).


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[Muskie]

I will say the Copa Pre and Post game is hilarious. Wynalda and Lalas are snapping at each other.


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[xubrew]

We didn't play well, but we didn't play poorly (at least not by our standards). And, we're still lucky it wasn't 5-0.

[Xville]

I can understand why but it is truly amazing how bad we are as a nation in soccer. I mean we are freaking terrible. I'm no soccer expert but I really don't understand how jk has not been fired. In any other us sport, he would have been fired a long time ago.

From my understanding, there is a gap of talent between the older guys who are now not good enough, and the younger guys who are not yet ready for the world stage. However, does jk even know what he is doing? I'm not sure.

[Porkopolis]

I can understand why but it is truly amazing how bad we are as a nation in soccer. I mean we are freaking terrible. I'm no soccer expert but I really don't understand how jk has not been fired. In any other us sport, he would have been fired a long time ago.

From my understanding, there is a gap of talent between the older guys who are now not good enough, and the younger guys who are not yet ready for the world stage. However, does jk even know what he is doing? I'm not sure.

JK is very good at identifying talent and getting those with dual nationality tied to the US. He just isn't any good at using said talent once it is on the roster. His tactics and man management are awful and he has no sense for how to plan long term. Other than that, he is awesome.

[XMuskieFTW]

MB has always played pretty badly when he has to play a strictly defensive mid role. He's played very well as an attacking mid yet JK lovvvvvves to play people out of position cause he doesn't understand the whole tactical side of the game.

[Muskie]

Interested to see what Mexico looks like tonight.

[XMuskieFTW]

Interested to see what Mexico looks like tonight.

Good. Very good. And they actually have an amazing atmosphere at their match. We need to take note.

[Muskie]

Yeah I have it on while I'm working. They look formidable. Uruguay is no slouch even without Suarez.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

MB has always played pretty badly when he has to play a strictly defensive mid role. He's played very well as an attacking mid yet JK lovvvvvves to play people out of position cause he doesn't understand the whole tactical side of the game.

You have this complete backward. Bradley is not at all an attacking midfielder and the only time he ever plays that role is with the national team. At the club level he is either a box to box midfielder or a defensive midfielder and that is where he is at his best. Jurgen has been playing him out of position for years as an attacker and finally just in the last month started playing him in his more natural position in front of the back line. He played a terrible game against a good Columbia team but it had nothing to do with him being out of position.

[bleedXblue]

I can understand why but it is truly amazing how bad we are as a nation in soccer. I mean we are freaking terrible. I'm no soccer expert but I really don't understand how jk has not been fired. In any other us sport, he would have been fired a long time ago.

From my understanding, there is a gap of talent between the older guys who are now not good enough, and the younger guys who are not yet ready for the world stage. However, does jk even know what he is doing? I'm not sure.

Its like one step forward and two steps back. We will never be a world power in soccer until we start to get at the best athletes at an early age with the proper training. Too many competing sports in America. Imagine if we had the likes of Steph Curry and Darrelle Revis at our disposal. Brazil, Germany, Italy.....its pretty much all soccer, all the time

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I can understand why but it is truly amazing how bad we are as a nation in soccer. I mean we are freaking terrible. I'm no soccer expert but I really don't understand how jk has not been fired. In any other us sport, he would have been fired a long time ago.

From my understanding, there is a gap of talent between the older guys who are now not good enough, and the younger guys who are not yet ready for the world stage. However, does jk even know what he is doing? I'm not sure.

We're not at all terrible as a nation at soccer. Terrible teams don't advance out of the group stage at three of the last four world cups. We're just not elite like we are at virtually every other major sport and thus people like you think not being elite equals being terrible. I hate to break it to you but we're never going to be elite at soccer when it's at best the third or forth tier sport in the country when its the top one everywhere else. Jurgen has his faults but you could make Pep or Jogi Low our coach and we still wouldn't be much better. We just don't have that talented of players and have never had a true world class player. Maybe one day we'll actually develop one (elite teams have multiple) but I'll believe that when it happens. If anything I'd say we've overachieved as a national team for how talented our players are.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Friday went as good (bad) as I thought it would. I thought the US played ok compared to a power like Colombia. They are a top 5 team in the world, US has some good opportunities, and that penalty was unfortunate.

The key this tournament will be how they play tomorrow and against Paraguay. The CR/Paraguay tie was ideal for the US. If they can win and tie those games they have an outside shot if Colombia wins out.

[Muskie]

Friday went as good (bad) as I thought it would. I thought the US played ok compared to a power like Colombia. They are a top 5 team in the world, US has some good opportunities, and that penalty was unfortunate.

The key this tournament will be how they play tomorrow and against Paraguay. The CR/Paraguay tie was ideal for the US. If they can win and tie those games they have an outside shot if Colombia wins out.

Under that scenario I would see them matched up with Brazil in the knockouts.

[Emp]

Well that was refreshing.

[XMuskieFTW]

Only need a draw to advance now. Oscar Romero is suspended for the game which also helps our chances.

[XMuskieFTW]

Brazil and Uruguay out in the group stages are big surprises. Brazil looked pretty bad the entire group stage. Peru didn't deserve to get through with their hand ball goal, but Brazil didn't really show anything worthy of advancing either. I like the US's chances against Ecuador. We should win.

[ammtd34]

I think we should beat Ecuador, too. We beat them three weeks ago, bringing Nagbe and Pulisic off the bench in the second half. Seattle should be a pretty gigantic home field advantage.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Not having Yedlin hurts a lot. His speed is a neutralizer back there for the Valencias and the rest of Ecuador. USA is playing with house money at this point, but they just beat them and should hopefully again.

[bleedXblue]

Not having Yedlin hurts a lot. His speed is a neutralizer back there for the Valencias and the rest of Ecuador. USA is playing with house money at this point, but they just beat them and should hopefully again.

Bone headed second yellow card for sure.

[XMuskieFTW]

It'll be interest to see what Klinsmann does with the back line. Do you slot Oroczo on the right, put Castillo at LB and move Fabian to RB, or my personal choice, move Cameron to RB and slot Besler in at CB?

[bleedXblue]

It'll be interest to see what Klinsmann does with the back line. Do you slot Oroczo on the right, put Castillo at LB and move Fabian to RB, or my personal choice, move Cameron to RB and slot Besler in at CB?

Is it just me or is Fabian really struggling in this tourney? He looked particularly bad in the last match.

[XMuskieFTW]

Is it just me or is Fabian really struggling in this tourney? He looked particularly bad in the last match.

I think he's been decent. Nothing special though. If only we had a capable LB so we didn't have to play him so out of position every game. I think he would be our best player if used correctly.

[ammtd34]

Disregarding the second half of Paraguay, I think we've looked progressively better each half. That's a good sign going into Thursday. And good God, John Brooks was ridiculous the other night.

[xubrew]

I can't go to Houston if we win on Thursday. Nope. Can't do it. It's too far to drive, more vacation time, and I need to quit spending so much money especially since I've already booked a trip to Europe later this summer.

And, having said that, if we win on Thursday, I know that I won't be able to help myself and that I'll go to Houston.

[XMuskieFTW]

I can't go to Houston if we win on Thursday. Nope. Can't do it. It's too far to drive, more vacation time, and I need to quit spending so much money especially since I've already booked a trip to Europe later this summer.

And, having said that, if we win on Thursday, I know that I won't be able to help myself and that I'll go to Houston.

Are you in Seattle?

[ArizonaXUGrad]

On Thursday a few points....

1 - We didn't play Cameron against them in the friendly. We played Birnbaum/Brooks with Yedlin/Johnson on the flanks. Even on defense with a Brinbaum for Cameron swap and probably Yedlin out and Orozco in. Besler if I remember subbed and stunk in that game.

2 - A.Valencia and their captain Ayovi didn't play in the friendly either. A/E Valencia make a gruesome tandem of speed that will kill us in this game. Ayovi is just a stud, old, but still a very capable player.

3 - I think we played Beckerman in the holding spot with Bradley pushing forward. They will see Bradley back with Bedoya forward this time.

I think it will be close, if we attack we should score some but also give up some goals on counters. Ecuador owned the possession in the friendly.

[xubrew]

Are you in Seattle?

No. Didn't make this one.

[ammtd34]

On Thursday a few points....

1 - We didn't play Cameron against them in the friendly. We played Birnbaum/Brooks with Yedlin/Johnson on the flanks. Even on defense with a Brinbaum for Cameron swap and probably Yedlin out and Orozco in. Besler if I remember subbed and stunk in that game.

2 - A.Valencia and their captain Ayovi didn't play in the friendly either. A/E Valencia make a gruesome tandem of speed that will kill us in this game. Ayovi is just a stud, old, but still a very capable player.

3 - I think we played Beckerman in the holding spot with Bradley pushing forward. They will see Bradley back with Bedoya forward this time.

I think it will be close, if we attack we should score some but also give up some goals on counters. Ecuador owned the possession in the friendly.

We also started Zusi (not Wood) and Pulisic and Nagbe came on early in the second half. I'm not worried about possession in a 4-3-3. We just need to create opportunities. Beckerman/Bradley in the middle invites pressure because we can't get out. Hopefully Bedoya's there.

[XMuskieFTW]

Absolutely beautiful. Best this team has looked in many years. Really happy. Argentina(likely) will be a very difficult task especially without wood Bedoya and jones. I think Zusi and beckerman fill in for Bedoya and jones without a huge drop. The loss of wood is huge though. His runs have been creating our chances and did on our two goals tonight. I hope we don't go the wondo route. My guess is we move Dempsey up and slot nagbe in behind him. Just excited to be moving on.

[Juice]

Absolutely beautiful. Best this team has looked in many years. Really happy. Argentina(likely) will be a very difficult task especially without wood Bedoya and jones. I think Zusi and beckerman fill in for Bedoya and jones without a huge drop. The loss of wood is huge though. His runs have been creating our chances and did on our two goals tonight. I hope we don't go the wondo route. My guess is we move Dempsey up and slot nagbe in behind him. Just excited to be moving on.

Wood and not Bedoya right?

[XMuskieFTW]

Wood and not Bedoya right?

Wood, Bedoya, and Jones all suspended for the semis.

[STL_XUfan]

Wood and not Bedoya right?

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/6/16/11961018/jermaine-jones-out-for-the-rest-of-copa-america-centenario-after-red

Jones' red comes with a 3 game suspension.

[ammtd34]

2 yellows in 4 games is not worthy of a suspension. Last year, cards reset after the group stage, which they should. This is the dumbest rule ever.

[bleedXblue]

Survive and advance.........our possession and poise in the second half was not good. Very fortunate to advance. Jones red card was just pure stupidity. Must have more poise. We get Yedlin back which is good...........

[XMuskieFTW]

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/6/16/11961018/jermaine-jones-out-for-the-rest-of-copa-america-centenario-after-red

Jones' red comes with a 3 game suspension.

Is this a Copa specific suspension or a Fifa suspension. Would he miss the next 1-2 World Cup Qualifiers in addition to Copa?

[ammtd34]

Is this a Copa specific suspension or a Fifa suspension. Would he miss the next 1-2 World Cup Qualifiers in addition to Copa?

The "good news" is that we have two games left in Copa America.

[XMuskieFTW]

The "good news" is that we have two games left in Copa America.

Ahh yes. I did forget there was a third place game if we don't win Tuesday. (Even though third place games are nothing more than a cash grab and the most pointless thing)

[XMuskieFTW]

Can we just put a box of rocks on the field instead of Wondo. What an abysmal player for the national team.

[Emp]

Messi is a wonder. He owns that upper right corner.

As for Wondo, whose awkward penalty gave Messi the set piece, he does find the goal on offense. but since we are unable to string together 3 passes out of our own third vs top defenses, I agree that he's a liability.

[XMuskieFTW]

Messi is a wonder. He owns that upper right corner.

As for Wondo, whose awkward penalty gave Messi the set piece, he does find the goal on offense. but since we are unable to string together 3 passes out of our own third vs top defenses, I agree that he's a liability.

The problem is Wondo only scores against bottom tier concacaf teams. Scored 5 against belize and cuba in gold cup group stages and a few in friendlies. He's never done anything in big games when he's gotten the chances. He has looked absolutely awful anytime he plays a halfway decent international team. It really blows my mind how he continues to get call ups(especially at 33) and how he is successful in the MLS.

There are just so many better options than him at forward for us although a lot are injured right now. I really hope we've seen the end of his career with the national team. No reason Morris should have been left off this roster.

[Boro Muskie]

Messi is a wonder. He owns that upper right corner.

As for Wondo, whose awkward penalty gave Messi the set piece, he does find the goal on offense. but since we are unable to string together 3 passes out of our own third vs top defenses, I agree that he's a liability.

Which started with an absolutely horrible first touch from Wondo that gave the ball to Messi in the center of the field. The 3rd place game will, at least for me, tell me a lot about the staff. Do they give the young guys a chance to gain some experience or do they stick with Wondo, Beckerman, Zusi et al. Perfect opportunity to get the young guns on the field.

[drudy23]

Not a soccer guy...even so, I could even tell the talent disparity was LARGE. ARG players were far quicker, and had significantly better ball skills.

Not sure our best players make their team.

[ammtd34]

Bradley either completely controls a game or is a complete disaster. It's really strange. I'm also not sure why we'd play 4-4-2 when everyone in the world knew that Argentina would line up with 3 in the middle. We started the game playing a man down in the middle against the best player in the world. Amazing.

[xubrew]

Wondo looks amazing when he's playing against any of the Caribbean islands. But, then again, those teams are often composed of players who wouldn't even start for most college teams. The collective grown that went out across the country when the lineup was announced was rather amazing.

For the past two days I was so disappointed that I wasn't able to go. Now, I'm glad that I don't have a ten hour drive ahead of me today and am not $400 poorer.

We're not in Argentina's class. In basketball terms, we're similar to a #10 seed. Good enough to be in the tournament, but not really expected to win it or take down any of the heavyweights. Colombia, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Brazil, etc, we're just not there. At best, we're good enough to sneak up on them and beat them one time out of ten (which we've done), but we're nowhere close to that level. But, still. We got to the semis and earned the right to play them, and getting blasted in the semis is better than not being in the semis at all.

[nuts4xu]

Zusi is terrible and looked old last night. We were outclassed man for man, and ARG made our defense look silly.

I understand Klinsmann is building for 2018, but we still have a long way to go before we can compete with the best of the world.

[xubrew]

Zusi is terrible and looked old last night. We were outclassed man for man, and ARG made our defense look silly.

I understand Klinsmann is building for 2018, but we still have a long way to go before we can compete with the best of the world.

I'm not sure if our ceiling is even that high. Soccer in the US is a complete and total (and somewhat comical) mess. We tend to be our own antithesis when it comes to strengthening our game. While interest in the game has spiked in recent years, the actual quality of play has been about the same for the past 20+ years.

[bleedXblue]

This isn't a player issue here or there...........it's a talent disparity issue across the board. I thought US soccer had made some strides the last 10-15 years. Now, I am not so sure.

[xubrew]

This isn't a player issue here or there...........it's a talent disparity issue across the board. I thought US soccer had made some strides the last 10-15 years. Now, I am not so sure.

In 1994 we were in the knockout round of the World Cup.

In 1995 we were in the semifinals of Copa America.

We're the same now. For the most part we beat the teams that we're supposed to, and that is enough to qualify us for the World Cup. But, we don't beat the elite world class teams. We're good enough to where we can occasionally take down a heavyweight and earn a big scalp, but for the most part we lose those games rather decisively. If it were college basketball, we'd be a solid top forty team that's good enough to get into the NCAAs, but not good enough to knock off the top five teams with any sort of regularity. That's what we've been for 20+ years. I don't think we've made any progress, nor do I think we've digressed either.

[XUFan09]

Solid mid-major program.

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[ammtd34]

In 1994 we were in the knockout round of the World Cup.

In 1995 we were in the semifinals of Copa America.

We're the same now. For the most part we beat the teams that we're supposed to, and that is enough to qualify us for the World Cup. But, we don't beat the elite world class teams. We're good enough to where we can occasionally take down a heavyweight and earn a big scalp, but for the most part we lose those games rather decisively. If it were college basketball, we'd be a solid top forty team that's good enough to get into the NCAAs, but not good enough to knock off the top five teams with any sort of regularity. That's what we've been for 20+ years. I don't think we've made any progress, nor do I think we've digressed either.

Because there have been no meaningful changes to the youth system in the last 20 years. Those changes are beginning, but they're being met with resistance, especially from club directors.

That, then, leads us toward conversation we had maybe a year ago when I tried to explain my views on our youth system in a bunch of posts I don't feel like regurgitating. Maybe I can find them.


Edit: They're here (http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?30200-U-s-Soccer-woes-Klinsman-ship-leaking/page2&highlight=southampton) in case anyone cares.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Good lord step off the ledge...Argentina is not only hitting their stride as the top team in the world, but they also have a complete bench.

US soccer is just fine. Our youth are progressing (just not in the US), we are doing well in tournaments, and I see replacements for good current players in their twilight. 1995, MLS wasn't really around yet and all our guys were playing on foreign teams. If you want to get better you have to increase your player pool. We have done just that. Youth academies in the US are on the rise. The talent is there and we are keeping some at MLS youth teams and sending the better players overseas to compete for club youth academies.

We are not Argentina. US players come mainly from middle and upper class or from foreign dual nationals that commit to us. When we start to produce homegrown talent from inner cities it's a whole new ball game.

We will lose Dempsey/Howard/Jones/Beckerman before Russia. We have Morris/Horvath/Nagbe/Pulisic just waiting to play. Don't sleep on guys like Zelalem/Hyndeman/Kiesewetter/Steffan either. There are a lot more playing on youth teams and main teams in Europe as I type this. The future is bright, like JK said, they just need to keep working.

[xubrew]

Good lord step off the ledge...Argentina is not only hitting their stride as the top team in the world, but they also have a complete bench.

US soccer is just fine. Our youth are progressing (just not in the US), we are doing well in tournaments, and I see replacements for good current players in their twilight. 1995, MLS wasn't really around yet and all our guys were playing on foreign teams. If you want to get better you have to increase your player pool. We have done just that. Youth academies in the US are on the rise. The talent is there and we are keeping some at MLS youth teams and sending the better players overseas to compete for club youth academies.

We are not Argentina. US players come mainly from middle and upper class or from foreign dual nationals that commit to us. When we start to produce homegrown talent from inner cities it's a whole new ball game.

We will lose Dempsey/Howard/Jones/Beckerman before Russia. We have Morris/Horvath/Nagbe/Pulisic just waiting to play. Don't sleep on guys like Zelalem/Hyndeman/Kiesewetter/Steffan either. There are a lot more playing on youth teams and main teams in Europe as I type this. The future is bright, like JK said, they just need to keep working.

Who are you talking to? No one is on the ledge, and no one disagrees at all with how good Argentina is. I don't think anyone who's been active in this thread is at all surprised, nor is anyone out on a ledge.

I personally wouldn't call US Soccer as a whole "just fine" though. The domestic league calendars are a mess, the domestic leagues keep suing each other, US Soccer is only sort of in control, the college game isn't really conducive to developing talent (and is a big reason why we struggle to qualify for the Olympics despite having a very strong U20 team), and the youth system needs to change. I'm not saying it's a failure, and I'm sure as hell am not on the ledge. But, we do have our limitations, and a lot of them are self inflicted.

I don't think the national team is any better now than it was in 1995. In fact, I think 1995 was one of our best and most important years ever even though no one in this country really cared. We were coming off a strong showing in the 1994 World Cup, and we got to the semis of Copa America. We won our group in Copa America. We clobbered Argentina in group play, which kind of made the world sit up and notice, and we knocked out Mexico in the quarters in PKs, which I think was the moment that the rivalry with them became what it was. We were pretty damn good in 1995. I think that's when we kind of solidified ourselves as not being one hit wonders after basically not existing for almost forty years. Seriously, there were years where the national team would only play one or two games. I don't think we're any better now then we were in the early 1990s, but that doesn't mean that I think we suck now either. It's kind of a shame that in the later years heading into the 1998 World Cup John Harkes was apparently banging Eric Wynalda's wife, and that kind of created a divide in the locker room and resulted in Harkes not being selected and the team being awful in the WC, but that's another story.

I don't think the U20 team is any better now than it was then either. In 1993, they made the quarterfinals of the U20 WC. In the last U20 WC, we made the quarterfinals. We've only been further than that once, and it was 1989 (a lot of those players became big time contributors later on).

I think we've sustained a pretty good product, but I don't think we've actually built on it or improved it much. We're pretty much the same. And, that's okay. Maybe that's our ceiling.

[Xville]

Who are you talking to? No one is on the ledge, and no one disagrees at all with how good Argentina is. I don't think anyone who's been active in this thread is at all surprised, nor is anyone out on a ledge.

I personally wouldn't call US Soccer as a whole "just fine" though. The domestic league calendars are a mess, the domestic leagues keep suing each other, US Soccer is only sort of in control, the college game isn't really conducive to developing talent (and is a big reason why we struggle to qualify for the Olympics despite having a very strong U20 team), and the youth system needs to change. I'm not saying it's a failure, and I'm sure as hell am not on the ledge. But, we do have our limitations, and a lot of them are self inflicted.

I don't think the national team is any better now than it was in 1995. In fact, I think 1995 was one of our best and most important years ever even though no one in this country really cared. We were coming off a strong showing in the 1994 World Cup, and we got to the semis of Copa America. We won our group in Copa America. We clobbered Argentina in group play, which kind of made the world sit up and notice, and we knocked out Mexico in the quarters in PKs, which I think was the moment that the rivalry with them became what it was. We were pretty damn good in 1995. I think that's when we kind of solidified ourselves as not being one hit wonders after basically not existing for almost forty years. Seriously, there were years where the national team would only play one or two games. I don't think we're any better now then we were in the early 1990s, but that doesn't mean that I think we suck now either. It's kind of a shame that in the later years heading into the 1998 World Cup John Harkes was apparently banging Eric Wynalda's wife, and that kind of created a divide in the locker room and resulted in Harkes not being selected and the team being awful in the WC, but that's another story.

I don't think the U20 team is any better now than it was then either. In 1993, they made the quarterfinals of the U20 WC. In the last U20 WC, we made the quarterfinals. We've only been further than that once, and it was 1989 (a lot of those players became big time contributors later on).

I think we've sustained a pretty good product, but I don't think we've actually built on it or improved it much. We're pretty much the same. And, that's okay. Maybe that's our ceiling.

Agreed....I don't think we are any better. Semis were the goal and the expectation which is pretty much the level that the US has been for 20 plus years now...Semis and quarters in tourneys like this, quarters or knockout round in the world cup, and winning a gold cup. That's it. It is going to take a long time before the US can make the next step. I will say though that I think the interest in soccer is growing....i heard that 10 years ago and i heard that 20 years ago, but I thought that was all bs then. This time, I think it actually has traction.

[XMuskieFTW]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2016/06/23/jurgen-klinsmann-usmnt-southampton-coach/86278518/

I've heard conflicting reports, but I would lovvvvvvve for this to happen.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

This post screams that you are on the ledge. Fact is, country soccer really has ebbs and flows. For the US, it's tourneys like this with success and tourneys like the Gold Cup. We don't have the depth to plug and play like other countries do. I don't know enough about the level of Argentina back in the 90s, but it might have just been a bad time for them. Colombia was poor until about 5 years ago.

For the first time since I can remember, the US has legitimate talent at club youth teams and playing for main teams in Europe right now. It is not just 5-10 guys, we have 25 or more and at all positions. So yeah, I see a big improvement. We have academy growth in the US that is being met with resistance. That kind of change is going to take decade or two. When the MLS changes their season, youth academies rule, and college soccer disappears, US soccer will change greatly.

I don't see these things as insurmountable problems. I see the change already occurring.


Who are you talking to? No one is on the ledge, and no one disagrees at all with how good Argentina is. I don't think anyone who's been active in this thread is at all surprised, nor is anyone out on a ledge.

I personally wouldn't call US Soccer as a whole "just fine" though. The domestic league calendars are a mess, the domestic leagues keep suing each other, US Soccer is only sort of in control, the college game isn't really conducive to developing talent (and is a big reason why we struggle to qualify for the Olympics despite having a very strong U20 team), and the youth system needs to change. I'm not saying it's a failure, and I'm sure as hell am not on the ledge. But, we do have our limitations, and a lot of them are self inflicted.

I don't think the national team is any better now than it was in 1995. In fact, I think 1995 was one of our best and most important years ever even though no one in this country really cared. We were coming off a strong showing in the 1994 World Cup, and we got to the semis of Copa America. We won our group in Copa America. We clobbered Argentina in group play, which kind of made the world sit up and notice, and we knocked out Mexico in the quarters in PKs, which I think was the moment that the rivalry with them became what it was. We were pretty damn good in 1995. I think that's when we kind of solidified ourselves as not being one hit wonders after basically not existing for almost forty years. Seriously, there were years where the national team would only play one or two games. I don't think we're any better now then we were in the early 1990s, but that doesn't mean that I think we suck now either. It's kind of a shame that in the later years heading into the 1998 World Cup John Harkes was apparently banging Eric Wynalda's wife, and that kind of created a divide in the locker room and resulted in Harkes not being selected and the team being awful in the WC, but that's another story.

I don't think the U20 team is any better now than it was then either. In 1993, they made the quarterfinals of the U20 WC. In the last U20 WC, we made the quarterfinals. We've only been further than that once, and it was 1989 (a lot of those players became big time contributors later on).

I think we've sustained a pretty good product, but I don't think we've actually built on it or improved it much. We're pretty much the same. And, that's okay. Maybe that's our ceiling.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

You know it's fine to want him gone, but who would we replace him with that is better????

Fact is, for the first time I saw him make mid-game tactical changes that worked in our favor.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2016/06/23/jurgen-klinsmann-usmnt-southampton-coach/86278518/

I've heard conflicting reports, but I would lovvvvvvve for this to happen.

[ammtd34]

Ha, it'd be funny for him to go to one of the elite youth systems in the world from one of the most dysfunctional.

[xubrew]

Does it sound to anyone else like I'm out on a ledge??

Hell, I started this thread, and in the first post I was trying to figure out just how important this tournament really was. I'm not at all concerned that we lost to one of the best teams in the world in the semifinals of a tournament that was really just for fun, and was just a cash grab for COMNEBOL. I'm actually happy we did as well as we did. I wasn't expecting any more than that.

Now I do feel that anyone who says that we're so much better off today than we were 20 years ago is very misinformed because they probably weren't watching 20 years ago. Way more people are watching now than they were then, but the expectations really aren't any higher now than they were then, and the results really aren't any better now than they were then. That's not being out on a ledge. That's simply saying that we've sustained that level of success, but really haven't built on it.


When the MLS changes their season, youth academies rule, and college soccer disappears, US soccer will change greatly.

Yes, this would help. When exactly do you expect this to occur?? I haven't seen anything to indicate that it is at all imminent. Again, I'm not out on a ledge. I learned to accept it long ago. I just don't see it happening any time soon. The MLS, and basically all the leagues, just kind of accept that we are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to the CONCACAF Champions League, and that many teams will be without key players since so much of the calendar overlaps international play. Every time it's pointed out they just act like they don't care. Probably because they don't care. These have been issues for almost two decades now, and overall response seems to just be to shrug.

[ammtd34]

Who are the 25 players playing on main teams in Europe? We've always had young talent overseas and they don't cut it most of the time.

[Xville]

"For the first time since I can remember, the US has legitimate talent at club youth teams and playing for main teams in Europe right now. It is not just 5-10 guys, we have 25 or more and at all positions."

Link? Because I find this to be extremely hard to believe.

[xubrew]

"For the first time since I can remember, the US has legitimate talent at club youth teams and playing for main teams in Europe right now. It is not just 5-10 guys, we have 25 or more and at all positions."

Link? Because I find this to be extremely hard to believe.

Olosunde signed with Man U about a month or two ago, Brooks Lennon is with Liverpool's academy team, and Perez plays in Italy (I honestly forget where and am too lazy to look it up right now).

That's all I can think of. Maybe there are 22 more, but if so I've never heard of them. Admittedly, I really don't start paying all that much attention until they hit the U20 level. I don't know all that much about the younger teams.

[XMuskieFTW]

You know it's fine to want him gone, but who would we replace him with that is better????

Fact is, for the first time I saw him make mid-game tactical changes that worked in our favor.

When was that? Jurgen is notorious for sticking to his original plan even when the game screams for a change. Like the Colombia game when we had nothing going for us. He didn't make a sub until the 66th minute because clearly it couldn't have been his tactics that were wrong. He even said in the postgame we played equal with Colombia, except Colombia scored twice. We were completely outclassed that game. He makes way too many decisions based on his ego and personal feelings towards players and their club decisions. Straight up the dude can't coach a game. He would make an excellent technical director, but that's about it.

As for who takes over, not a clue. They put together committees to figure that out. Just cause there's not a glaring answer to that now isn't an excuse to put up with mediocrity.

[ammtd34]

Olosunde signed with Man U about a month or two ago, Brooks Lennon is with Liverpool's academy team, and Perez plays in Italy (I honestly forget where and am too lazy to look it up right now).

That's all I can think of. Maybe there are 22 more, but if so I've never heard of them. Admittedly, I really don't start paying all that much attention until they hit the U20 level. I don't know all that much about the younger teams.

Pulisic, Miazga, but they're still relative wildcards like we've had in the past.

Adu was with Benfica for four years but never played a role. Eddie Johnson went to Fulham, Ricardo Clark, Kenny Cooper, Brek Shea, Jozy Altidore, Danny Szetela...

We've been placing guys overseas for years. Most just never pan out.

[xubrew]

When was that? Jurgen is notorious for sticking to his original plan even when the game screams for a change. Like the Colombia game when we had nothing going for us. He didn't make a sub until the 66th minute because clearly it couldn't have been his tactics that were wrong. He even said in the postgame we played equal with Colombia, except Colombia scored twice. We were completely outclassed that game. He makes way too many decisions based on his ego and personal feelings towards players and their club decisions. Straight up the dude can't coach a game. He would make an excellent technical director, but that's about it.

As for who takes over, not a clue. They put together committees to figure that out. Just cause there's not a glaring answer to that now isn't an excuse to put up with mediocrity.

Klinsmann is here for the rest of the 2018 cycle. And, I can live with that. We were outclassed by Colombia, but we would have been outclassed by them regardless of who the coach was. They're just really damn good. Chances are we'll be outclassed again on Saturday if Colombia takes the game at all seriously.

I know this isn't the normal route to go, but if the U20s do well (semis or better) in next year's U20 WC, do you have to at least CONSIDER, Tab Ramos as the next national team coach? I know that's not traditional, but doing that well in next year's U20 WC would mean he had done well with a lot of the players that will ultimately be on the team after the 2018 cycle ends. Is it entirely crazy to at least consider them?? Most would say yes, but I think the only reason they'd say yes is because the logic seems to be to gut everything after the end of each cycle.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Costa Rica and Paraguay games saw us switch from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 with success.

Also, google is your friend but here are just a few...

Cody Cropper - MK Dons
Matt Miazga - Chelsea
Deandre Yedlin - Loan Sunderland (Tottenham)
Emerson Hyndeman - Bournemouth
Geoff Cameron - Stoke City
Tim Ream - Fulham
Alejandro Bedoya - Nantes
John Brooks - Hertha Berlin
Fabian Johnson - Moenchenglabach
Bobby Wood - Hamburg
Aron Johansson - Wolfsburg
Tim Chandler - Frankfurt
Christian Pulisic - Dortmund
Jerome Kiesewetter - Stuttgart
Alfredo Morales - Ingolstadt
Joe Gyau - Rehabbing at Dortmund II but is highly coveted the Senior team
Zac Steffan - Freiburg II
Joshua Perez - Fiorentina
Ethan Horvath - Molde
Gedion Zelelam - Rangers (Arsenal)
Maki Tall - Sion

There are tons in Liga MX. Guys, do your research first. We have more than ever before.

[ammtd34]

Here's the thing. That isn't any different than it's ever been. Let's look at 1998, which was an absolute disaster.

Friedel - Liverpool
Hejduk - Leverkusen
Dooley - Crew, but had just come from Schalke
Regis - Metz
Stewart - NAC
Deering - Wolfsburg
Sommer - QPR
Keller - Leicester
Reyna - Wolfsburg (loan from Leverkusen)

Those are just the guys from the WC roster. Guys like Wegerle and Joe-Max Moore had spent time in Europe to varying success but were in MLS to end their careers. McBride was headed to Fulham shortly, as was Eddie Lewis. Donovan was on his way to Leverkusen, Berhalter was in Holland. John O’Brien was at Ajax. Sanneh was headed to Hertha Berlin.

The list you posted looks no more impressive to me than this list I could have made in 1998.

[XMuskieFTW]

Costa Rica and Paraguay games saw us switch from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 with success.

Also, google is your friend but here are just a few...

Cody Cropper - MK Dons
Matt Miazga - Chelsea
Deandre Yedlin - Loan Sunderland (Tottenham)
Emerson Hyndeman - Bournemouth
Geoff Cameron - Stoke City
Tim Ream - Fulham
Alejandro Bedoya - Nantes
John Brooks - Hertha Berlin
Fabian Johnson - Moenchenglabach
Bobby Wood - Hamburg
Aron Johansson - Wolfsburg
Tim Chandler - Frankfurt
Christian Pulisic - Dortmund
Jerome Kiesewetter - Stuttgart
Alfredo Morales - Ingolstadt
Joe Gyau - Rehabbing at Dortmund II but is highly coveted the Senior team
Zac Steffan - Freiburg II
Joshua Perez - Fiorentina
Ethan Horvath - Molde
Gedion Zelelam - Rangers (Arsenal)
Maki Tall - Sion

There are tons in Liga MX. Guys, do your research first. We have more than ever before.

There are a ton of Americans overseas. A ton no one has ever heard of. This site used to be a really good source for international players until whoever ran it discontinued running it in January: http://www.socceroverthere.com/

If you scroll down on the left there is a list of a ton of US nationals playing abroad with updates. This list doesn't even include all of them.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Norwegian_Premier_League_players

Also check out how many Americans have played in Norway alone. Pretty wild.

[xubrew]

Costa Rica and Paraguay games saw us switch from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 with success.

Also, google is your friend but here are just a few...

Cody Cropper - MK Dons
Matt Miazga - Chelsea
Deandre Yedlin - Loan Sunderland (Tottenham)
Emerson Hyndeman - Bournemouth
Geoff Cameron - Stoke City
Tim Ream - Fulham
Alejandro Bedoya - Nantes
John Brooks - Hertha Berlin
Fabian Johnson - Moenchenglabach
Bobby Wood - Hamburg
Aron Johansson - Wolfsburg
Tim Chandler - Frankfurt
Christian Pulisic - Dortmund
Jerome Kiesewetter - Stuttgart
Alfredo Morales - Ingolstadt
Joe Gyau - Rehabbing at Dortmund II but is highly coveted the Senior team
Zac Steffan - Freiburg II
Joshua Perez - Fiorentina
Ethan Horvath - Molde
Gedion Zelelam - Rangers (Arsenal)
Maki Tall - Sion

There are tons in Liga MX. Guys, do your research first. We have more than ever before.

Okay, I see now what you mean. Hardly anyone you mentioned is currently part of what would be considered "legitimate talents for club youth leagues" though. They are simply American players who play oversees. Many of them are either already regulars on the national team, or not likely to end up being any sort of a difference maker.

Maki Tall, Zelelam, Horvath, Gyau, Kiesewetter were former U20 players who didn't quite make it to the national team, but played on the U23 team, and are probably done now. I wouldn't be surprised if none of them even ended up earning a cap, or playing in any sort of a meaningful game for the national team. Horvath was the back up goalkeeper. I don't see him starting for the national team at any point.

Geoff Cameron, Tim Ream, and Fabian Johnson have got to be close to 30 years old. They're much closer to the end of their careers than they are to the beginning of it, and while good, aren't likely to be any sort of a difference maker for the national team from this point on. Same with Timmy Chandler.

Bobby Wood, Yedlin, Morales, and Polisic aren't really currently in our developmental program. They're pretty much already regulars. But, they are good players who play overseas.

[ammtd34]

Yeah, there are a ton of guys like Chris Rolfe who never played a role with the national team but had a decent few good in Denmark (then he chased a girl back to Chicago).

[Juice]

Yeah, there are a ton of guys like Chris Rolfe who never played a role with the national team but had a decent few good in Denmark (then he chased a girl back to Chicago).

You're bringing up a UD guy on this board?

[Xville]

Costa Rica and Paraguay games saw us switch from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 with success.

Also, google is your friend but here are just a few...

Cody Cropper - MK Dons
Matt Miazga - Chelsea
Deandre Yedlin - Loan Sunderland (Tottenham)
Emerson Hyndeman - Bournemouth
Geoff Cameron - Stoke City
Tim Ream - Fulham
Alejandro Bedoya - Nantes
John Brooks - Hertha Berlin
Fabian Johnson - Moenchenglabach
Bobby Wood - Hamburg
Aron Johansson - Wolfsburg
Tim Chandler - Frankfurt
Christian Pulisic - Dortmund
Jerome Kiesewetter - Stuttgart
Alfredo Morales - Ingolstadt
Joe Gyau - Rehabbing at Dortmund II but is highly coveted the Senior team
Zac Steffan - Freiburg II
Joshua Perez - Fiorentina
Ethan Horvath - Molde
Gedion Zelelam - Rangers (Arsenal)
Maki Tall - Sion

There are tons in Liga MX. Guys, do your research first. We have more than ever before.

ok i misunderstood you then. I thought you meant 25 or so guys with actual talent that could make the national team in a few years, and push the team forward. Of that list, I believe 9 of them have been or are already on the national team....about 2-3 of them could maybe make the national team on a top 10 national team now.

That list doesn't exactly enthuse me about the progress of the national team.

[ammtd34]

You're bringing up a UD guy on this board?

Lol. Friends with his brother. We hang out when he's in town.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

My guess is a year ago you had already written off Bobby Wood since he was just 22 and mired in the 2nd Bundesliga on a team near relegation. So yeah, all those guys have no talent and won't ever produce at a club or NT level.

Stade Reims has a forward that is just 18 that is a US dual national. He is still deciding where to play, Reims was just relegated to the second division in France. Let's write off that 18 year old right now. So many guys 18-21 right now in Europe that all have a good shot.

Just because Euros advance at 18-19 doesn't mean we do. Wood is now 23 and hitting his stride after looking pedestrian before his move to Union Berlin. Miazga is poised to get more time with Cahill being another year older. Gyau is coveted at Dortmund and rehabbing. Hyndeman just got his change of venue he might need. Zelelam will start for the Rangers in the Scottish Premier. Johansson hasn't even been seen yet and is rehabbing an injury for Wolfsburg. Acosta is getting better in Dallas and will probably transfer overseas. Carter-Vickers just got his first call up for Tottenham.


ok i misunderstood you then. I thought you meant 25 or so guys with actual talent that could make the national team in a few years, and push the team forward. Of that list, I believe 9 of them have been or are already on the national team....about 2-3 of them could maybe make the national team on a top 10 national team now.

That list doesn't exactly enthuse me about the progress of the national team.

[xubrew]

My guess is a year ago you had already written off Bobby Wood since he was just 22 and mired in the 2nd Bundesliga on a team near relegation. So yeah, all those guys have no talent and won't ever produce at a club or NT level.

Stade Reims has a forward that is just 18 that is a US dual national. He is still deciding where to play, Reims was just relegated to the second division in France. Let's write off that 18 year old right now. So many guys 18-21 right now in Europe that all have a good shot.

Just because Euros advance at 18-19 doesn't mean we do. Wood is now 23 and hitting his stride after looking pedestrian before his move to Union Berlin. Miazga is poised to get more time with Cahill being another year older. Gyau is coveted at Dortmund and rehabbing. Hyndeman just got his change of venue he might need. Zelelam will start for the Rangers in the Scottish Premier. Johansson hasn't even been seen yet and is rehabbing an injury for Wolfsburg. Acosta is getting better in Dallas and will probably transfer overseas. Carter-Vickers just got his first call up for Tottenham.

A year ago Bobby Wood scored against Germany and the Netherlands in about the same week. I don't think anyone had written him off. I also wouldn't describe him as pedestrian when he played with the U20s. Now, on that particular team, he was perhaps the only player who WASN'T pedestrian, but he was actually the only one that looked any good from what I recall. For those that follow it closely, I don't think Bobby Wood has ever been off their radar. He's always been kind of a standout player. Most of the guys you mentioned either already have multiple caps and are closer to the end of their careers than they are at the beginning, or aren't really standout players like Wood was and aren't likely to see any action in any sort of meaningful game. Generally speaking, if by the age of 23 a player hasn't made any sort of an impact, then they probably won't at any point. If they had made an impact or impressed the USSF, then they'd have been on the national team. When was the last time we had a big impact player that didn't debut with the national team before the age of 23? A lot of the guys you mentioned are older than that and haven't really done anything with the national team, or if they have, they really can't be described as "The future."

[bleedXblue]

Does it sound to anyone else like I'm out on a ledge??

Hell, I started this thread, and in the first post I was trying to figure out just how important this tournament really was. I'm not at all concerned that we lost to one of the best teams in the world in the semifinals of a tournament that was really just for fun, and was just a cash grab for COMNEBOL. I'm actually happy we did as well as we did. I wasn't expecting any more than that.

Now I do feel that anyone who says that we're so much better off today than we were 20 years ago is very misinformed because they probably weren't watching 20 years ago. Way more people are watching now than they were then, but the expectations really aren't any higher now than they were then, and the results really aren't any better now than they were then. That's not being out on a ledge. That's simply saying that we've sustained that level of success, but really haven't built on it.



Yes, this would help. When exactly do you expect this to occur?? I haven't seen anything to indicate that it is at all imminent. Again, I'm not out on a ledge. I learned to accept it long ago. I just don't see it happening any time soon. The MLS, and basically all the leagues, just kind of accept that we are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to the CONCACAF Champions League, and that many teams will be without key players since so much of the calendar overlaps international play. Every time it's pointed out they just act like they don't care. Probably because they don't care. These have been issues for almost two decades now, and overall response seems to just be to shrug.

No.......

[paulxu]

Iceland?

[XMuskieFTW]

Iceland?

Iceland was completely overlooked going into this tournament. The would have won their Euro qualifying group if they didn't mail it in their last game of qualifying. They also just missed the 2014 world cup. They were 0-0 going into the second leg of their playoff to make it but lost 2-0 to croatia. Iceland has probably the best youth system in the world. I expect we see more and more of them and looking at their 2018 world cup qualifying group, I would expect a top two finish in their group. I could easily see them winning it. I've been following their team for about four years now and am ecstatic to see how well they're doing. Beat Italy!

[xubrew]

Iceland beat the Netherlands twice during qualifying. Beating England is actually much less surprising than that. They didn't come out of nowhere. They've been pretty good for the last four years. As mentioned above, they damn near made the last World Cup.

[LA Muskie]

Iceland was completely overlooked going into this tournament. The would have won their Euro qualifying group if they didn't mail it in their last game of qualifying. They also just missed the 2014 world cup. They were 0-0 going into the second leg of their playoff to make it but lost 2-0 to croatia. Iceland has probably the best youth system in the world. I expect we see more and more of them and looking at their 2018 world cup qualifying group, I would expect a top two finish in their group. I could easily see them winning it. I've been following their team for about four years now and am ecstatic to see how well they're doing. Beat Italy!
They will need to beat France first... (I will certainly be rooting for that...)

[xubrew]

Iceland was completely overlooked going into this tournament. The would have won their Euro qualifying group if they didn't mail it in their last game of qualifying. They also just missed the 2014 world cup. They were 0-0 going into the second leg of their playoff to make it but lost 2-0 to croatia. Iceland has probably the best youth system in the world. I expect we see more and more of them and looking at their 2018 world cup qualifying group, I would expect a top two finish in their group. I could easily see them winning it. I've been following their team for about four years now and am ecstatic to see how well they're doing. Beat Italy!


I didn't realize they had already had the drawings for the groups. I was under the impression that occurred after the Euros. I'm literally looking at it and seeing it for the first time now. Talk about being asleep at the wheel. I see San Marino is in Germany's group. That should be interesting.

[XMuskieFTW]

I didn't realize they had already had the drawings for the groups. I was under the impression that occurred after the Euros. I'm literally looking at it and seeing it for the first time now. Talk about being asleep at the wheel. I see San Marino is in Germany's group. That should be interesting.

The real question is will Gibraltar be better or worse than a -40 GD in their 10 games? I've got worse.

Iceland was lucky to draw Croatia as top seed in their group.

[paulxu]

The population of greater Cincinnati is about 7 times larger than Iceland.

We should have a futbol team in the World Cup.

[xubrew]

Piggy backing on this, the U20s have three games coming up this week in the now annual (I think) NTC Invitational. US Soccer streams all the games for free.

This tournament is a round robin tournament that means virtually nothing. We seem to be using a lot of college players, which always makes me cringe, but then again, the tournament means nothing. The U20 WC qualifying is in February and March (unlike the real WC where qualifying takes years, U20 WC qualifying takes weeks, which is why they're able to play one every year when there is no Olympics or no real WC). And, that's what really matters.

I'm TEMPTED to go to Korea next summer for a couple of reasons. I've never been there and think it would be a cool place to visit, the U20 WC gives me an excuse to go there, and it's incredibly affordable when compared to other soccer events that take place abroad. But, plenty of time to sort that out. I've had friends that have been to Korea and loved it, so it shouldn't be too hard to convince them to go back.

[GoMuskies]

You'll love Pyongyang.

[xubrew]

Alright, we are now a full blown soccer nation!!

We've got an international break this week, and most of the domestic leagues around the world are now in full swing!! WHO'S EXCITED!!?? WHO'S PUMPED UP!! WE LOVE SOCCER NOW!!!

......

....

......

Anybody??

....

....

hello??


Ahhh, screw it. We just need to beat St. Vincent and Trinidad, which we should easily be able to do. I have tickets to the game in Jacksonville against Trinidad, but I'll probably have to give them up. I'm just too slammed at work and can't get away.

[XMuskieFTW]

Another call up for Wondo. At this rate he's going to be starting in 2022 in Qatar if Jurgen gets his way.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Give me a break on that call-up. I don't care who we are playing, I would rather play a bag of rocks than that guy.


Another call up for Wondo. At this rate he's going to be starting in 2022 in Qatar if Jurgen gets his way.

[xubrew]

Everyone remembers the World Cup miss against Belgium for obvious reasons. This is one I'll never forget. You watch it, even now, and it seems to defy the laws of physics and geometry. I have no idea how he managed to kick it over the goal.

WONDO MISSES PLANET EARTH...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eukC37Nvyk

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Lord I read the list, Kyle Beckerman is on there as well. JK should definitely start Nagbe here with Bedoya in the midfield. I could stomach Beckerman in there with those two. Up top, I would love to see Wood/Altidore/Pulisic, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Pulisic come off the bench here. SVG should be a win but we should put out our best 11 to ensure it and hope TnT wins.

[xubrew]

WE WON THE GROUP LAST NIGHT!! WE WON IT!! IN FRONT OF A CROWD THAT COULD HAVE FIT COMFORTABLY INTO MOST NBA ARENAS!!! GO US!!!

I don't like group play. I think that once CONCACAF gets down to twelve they should have just one big group of twelve. 22 games per team. The top 3.5 go. It's more games, more money, and if we did this we could get rid of one of the meaningless Gold Cups and have just one meaningful Gold Cup.

I realize that we are a full blown soccer nation now, and that everyone has a lot of opinions on this matter. I just hope there is enough bandwidth to sustain the overwhelming amount of traffic this post will generate.

[X-band '01]

And I thought you were going to complain that you would have to choose between Xavier-Lehigh and the quadrennial Dos A Cero match with Mexico.

[xubrew]

And I thought you were going to complain that you would have to choose between Xavier-Lehigh and the quadrennial Dos A Cero match with Mexico.

Chances are I won't get to choose either. I am planning on going to Azteca in June, though. Which is always interesting. Everyone who whines about UD Arena and how bad the fans are would have a full blown breakdown if they went to Azteca....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrByZiZKh6k

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Prepare to get hit with a urine balloon. I watched Mexico/Honduras last night, those fans are trash with their Puto chant at opposing goalies. Last night it was yelled for corners as well. I kayaked down the salt river this weekend and heard it there as well. Mexican fans, English fans, and now Russian fans are the Raider fans of the soccer world.

That said, the US is simply a better team with Pulisic right now. The question is whether the 17 year old can handle a club season, qualifying, and friendlies. He might break down and get hurt too much. I like the conservative approach JK and Dortmund are taking. I wish Klestjian was 10 years younger or that he played like this 10 years ago. He would have played more.


Chances are I won't get to choose either. I am planning on going to Azteca in June, though. Which is always interesting. Everyone who whines about UD Arena and how bad the fans are would have a full blown breakdown if they went to Azteca....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrByZiZKh6k

[xubrew]

Prepare to get hit with a urine balloon. I watched Mexico/Honduras last night, those fans are trash with their Puto chant at opposing goalies. Last night it was yelled for corners as well. I kayaked down the salt river this weekend and heard it there as well. Mexican fans, English fans, and now Russian fans are the Raider fans of the soccer world.

That said, the US is simply a better team with Pulisic right now. The question is whether the 17 year old can handle a club season, qualifying, and friendlies. He might break down and get hurt too much. I like the conservative approach JK and Dortmund are taking. I wish Klestjian was 10 years younger or that he played like this 10 years ago. He would have played more.

Oh, it is a show! It's something that I cannot even explain. You really need to be ready for it, and you really need to stay with your fans in your section and follow the security both in and out. You also need to be aware of your surroundings before and after the game, not just at the stadium, but around the city. But, it is a bonding experience like you wouldn't believe. You will know the American fans you meet at that game for the rest of your life and think of them as lifelong friends.

it's actually so intense that it kind of ruins American sports for you. You will NEVER experience anything that hostile or that charged up ever again.

[xubrew]

And now, this....

http://screamer.deadspin.com/alejandro-bedoya-and-eric-wynalda-face-off-in-extremely-1786324239?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Wow, didn't know Wynalda was this displeased with Bedoya. Fact is, Bedoya has a massive work rate pushing forward and tracking back on defense. The guy normally has good distribution and possession and puts himself in the right place with a good touch. I don't see how Wynalda hates him.


And now, this....

http://screamer.deadspin.com/alejandro-bedoya-and-eric-wynalda-face-off-in-extremely-1786324239?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[xubrew]

Wynalda is displeased with......

You can finish that sentence with pretty much anything. Had Bedoya just ignored him then no one would have thought anything of it other than Wynalda being displeased with life.

[ammtd34]

I typically can't stand Wynalda, but all he said was that Bedoya wasn't good last night and there are other CMs who are better. Going straight from that to Harkes is pretty crazy.

Which is why I loved it.

[xubrew]

I'm going to try my best to make it to Columbus, although I know it may prove to be impossible. In the summer I'm not that busy. In the fall, winter, and spring, I'm busy. And, in late August/Early September, mid-November, early January, and late April, I'm so damn busy that aliens could invade and I wouldn't know about it until a week later. I know most here are probably more interested in Xavier's opener that night (and I totally get that), but I will be buying a ticket and there is a ninety percent chance I won't be able to use it. I REALLY wish this was being played at....well....literally any other time. USA v Mexico WC qualifier in the United States is probably the most fun you can ever had at a sporting event, and I probably go to over 200 sporting events a year, so you should go if you get the chance.

[ammtd34]

I'll be there one way or another. It took some hard work to get to the last one, but we did it.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I actually just booked flights to Italy/Germany for my honeymoon in October. Bayern plays a home game when I am in Munich and a German Cup game 3 days later. I absolutely must get a ticket for one of those two games.

[xubrew]

I actually just booked flights to Italy/Germany for my honeymoon in October. Bayern plays a home game when I am in Munich and a German Cup game 3 days later. I absolutely must get a ticket for one of those two games.

I just got back from three weeks in Italy/Germany. Well, mostly in Italy. A good friend of mine lives in Munich and loves Bayern Munich. This gives me a very good reason to root against Bayern Munich. One of my old roommates from Xavier lives in Italy. I try and go over at least once a year to see them and travel around some. They get 40 days of vacation a year and by law they have to take 20 of them. They have fewer bills. They can come over here for a solid month and still take off for three weeks when I'm over there. They have way less stress. I can't help but wonder....where the hell did I go wrong??

Congrats on the marriage/honeymoon! Have a good time! Seeing Bayern Munich is the perfect activity for a honeymoon!!