Harambe the Gorilla

[X Factor]

I was reading about Harambe, the gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo, who was shot and killed after kid crawled through the bars and into the enclosure. The kid was dragged around for 10 minutes before the zoo staff shot and killed the 400 lb gorilla.

In the article, they posted tweets from people about the incident, and low and behold, there is a tweet from PMThor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3615099/Outrage-directed-parents-Harambe-gorilla-s-senseless-death-four-year-old-son-fell-enclosure-led-zoo-officials-fatally-shoot-animal.html

[Caveat]

He's not wrong.

[X-band '01]

The thread title should be changed to international news, I'd think.

[Masterofreality]

Proud of my man PM. And he is exactly right.

[RealDeal]

Yep, that appears to be some awful parenting. Sad.

[XUFan09]

It's part of PM Thor's move out of Cincinnati. He needs to establish a broader online footprint.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[GIMMFD]

Thor brought down the truth hammer. Awful parenting.

yes that was a pun...

[PM Thor]

News to me! Thanks for letting me know.

And yeah, that whole incident angers me. First at the parents, and then at the people who blame the Zoo. Those people who are trying to throw up a boycott on the zoo are absolutely clueless. The good that that zoo does for the preservation of endangered specie is world renowned. They were put in a horrible situation by the inaction of parents of a small child and had to make a terrible choice. They made the right one obviously, but it is sad and infuriating.

[GuyFawkes38]

As a Daily Mail addict, I just noticed it. Exciting stuff.

[Muskie in dayton]

Maybe the kid's mother was laying on a park bench drinking wine, playing on her phone, and eating Bon-bons. Or maybe not. Does anyone know, was she tending to multiple children? Infants/other toddlers? Was she exhausted after a long hot day? Was the toddler austistic or have other special needs?

Many of the people I've heard judge, condemn and sentence the mother the harshest - usually behind the curtain of social media - have not experienced the rigors of parenthood or considered any potential extenuating circumstances that led to this tragic situation. I've even heard one person state they should have turned the rifles on the mother after shooting the gorilla. Disgusting. What at is truly sad is that apparently it's okay to render harsh judgement without having any facts.

People need to stop grandstanding their self-righteous opinions. We're smarter than that.

[mohr5150]

Maybe the kid's mother was laying on a park bench drinking wine, playing on her phone, and eating Bon-bons. Or maybe not. Does anyone know, was she tending to multiple children? Infants/other toddlers? Was she exhausted after a long hot day? Was the toddler austistic or have other special needs?

Many of the people I've heard judge, condemn and sentence the mother the harshest - usually behind the curtain of social media - have not experienced the rigors of parenthood or considered any potential extenuating circumstances that led to this tragic situation. I've even heard one person state they should have turned the rifles on the mother after shooting the gorilla. Disgusting. What at is truly sad is that apparently it's okay to render harsh judgement without having any facts.

People need to stop grandstanding their self-righteous opinions. We're smarter than that.

Totally agree, Muskie in Dayton. I feel badly for all parties involved. It's just sad.

[xu82]

I obviously have no idea what happened, but one lesson I have learned in life is to judge less, and try to learn more.

It doesn't absolve anyone, but please see all sides. This sucked from every direction.

[GuyFawkes38]

I can't help but feel like if the mother and the gorilla were armed, this would have ended peacefully.

[bigdiggins]

Maybe the kid's mother was laying on a park bench drinking wine, playing on her phone, and eating Bon-bons. Or maybe not. Does anyone know, was she tending to multiple children? Infants/other toddlers? Was she exhausted after a long hot day? Was the toddler austistic or have other special needs?

Many of the people I've heard judge, condemn and sentence the mother the harshest - usually behind the curtain of social media - have not experienced the rigors of parenthood or considered any potential extenuating circumstances that led to this tragic situation. I've even heard one person state they should have turned the rifles on the mother after shooting the gorilla. Disgusting. What at is truly sad is that apparently it's okay to render harsh judgement without having any facts.

People need to stop grandstanding their self-righteous opinions. We're smarter than that.

If you have too many children to watch on your own or their needs require special attention that you can't provide get help and don't put yourself in situations you cannot handle.

[SemajParlor]

I can't help but feel like if the mother and the gorilla were armed, this would have ended peacefully.

Maybe this Gorilla should've stop acting like such a thug and get a real job and contribute to society and stop living off my taxes and stuff.

[PM Thor]

I can still be furious at the parents and still forgive them for what they did. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[bleedXblue]

I don't think anyone knows of the exact specifics of the situation and how exactly this all unfolded. Why does someone or something always have to be at fault? Sometimes shit just happens.

[Muskie in dayton]

I can still be furious at the parents and still forgive them for what they did. They aren't mutually exclusive.


If you're "furious", and "you forgive", that means you're judging and finding fault...without all the facts. As I said above, we're smarter than that.

[Muskie in dayton]

Amen.

[Muskie in dayton]

How about I try this:

Is there anyone on this board who is or has been the parent of a toddler, and believes that this could never, under any circumstances, ever have happened to you? Is there anyone out there vain enough to say that?

I have no problem saying this could have been me. Not because I am an inattentive or bad parent, but because toddlers are going to be toddlers, and I am not perfect. For that reason alone I will not judge. "Let anyone of you who is without sin throw the first stone at her".

So, anyone?

[boozehound]

How about I try this:

Is there anyone on this board who is or has been the parent of a toddler, and believes that this could never, under any circumstances, ever have happened to you? Is there anyone out there vain enough to say that?

I have no problem saying this could have been me. Not because I am an inattentive or bad parent, but because toddlers are going to be toddlers, and I am not perfect. For that reason alone I will not judge. "Let anyone of you who is without sin throw the first stone at her".

So, anyone?

Cosign times 1000. People are real shit heads online. It makes it very easy to judge when you get to do so behind the veil of social media.

I have a 2.5 yr old toddler and 1 month old twins. Sometimes I have gone to the zoo, or other places, with multiple toddlers / young children (my child + nieces / nephews). There are a million opportunities for a small child to slip away from even the most attentive parent. Short of putting your kids on leashes all the time, things can happen. This was a one in a million type of situation. It's very unfortunate, but people need to chill out on the vilifying of the parents, unless it turns out that they were TRULY poor / inattentive parents.

[SemajParlor]

People are funny sometimes. We sit and argue all day and point out flaws of the President of US. " He should not have said this / I would have done that."

But when it comes to being critical of someone who let a 4 year climb into a Gorilla cage. "You don't know what it's like to be a parent, you're opinion is invalid!"

Not saying I fully blame the parent (s) / don't know any details - just a funny observation about society.

[LadyMuskie]

I'm so sick of this idea that all parents are created equal. Bullshit. Like every other job on the planet, there are good parents, bad parents and mediocre parents.

In the last 7 years I've been to the Zoo countless times. I've brought multiple children of various ages and I've been with people who brought children of multiple ages. Guess what? No one was nearly killed by a wild animal because we parented. We made rules for those old enough to understand them (and 4 is plenty old enough as any daycare/preschool administration would know) and for those that couldn't or wouldn't follow the rules, they had to be held, in a stroller or holding an adult hand.

Parenting is hard, but good parenting is not impossible. It does take constant vigilance and awareness, time to teach rules, and it sometimes means leaving before you're ready when junior announces his plan to enter a wild animal's cage. By the age of 4, if you care enough and pay enough attention, you know whether or not you have a kid who will just accept a "no" or who needs to be removed. I guarantee this is not the first time junior has taken off.

So, while nothing is impossible, I'll go ahead and claim that a child in my care entering a wild animal enclosure is completely improbable. After going to the Zoo as much as I have with as many little kids as I have, I feel perfectly fine in saying that.

The question is, will you now judge me because you don't think this mother should be judged? I'm not the perfect mother, but my child and the children who've been in my care have never been in that kind danger.

[GoMuskies]

I thought we all already agreed that OVERLY attentive parents have ruined a generation. I say bravo to this mother for letting her little guy do some exploring. How many other 4 year olds have had the experience of hanging with a silverback and seeing a live hunt up close and personal? None of these helicopter parents' kids, that's for damned sure!

Who knows how long it took for this kid to slip away and get in the enclosure. I have a 5 year-old, and you can be damn sure I don't watch every single move he makes. He's 5. Granted, I watch him like a hawk in a parking lot and if we're crossing a street, so I'd like to think that if there was an attractive nuisance that could spell trouble I'd be damn sure to be right with him. But I can't say for sure without knowing what the place looks like and how obvious it was that a kid could potentially climb in.

[ammtd34]

Is there anyone on this board who is or has been the parent of a toddler, and believes that this could never, under any circumstances, ever have happened to you? Is there anyone out there vain enough to say that?


No.

My wife and I were talking about this over the weekend (1 and 2 year old at home). It could easily happen. I don't remember how the barrier works there, so I was wondering if it's possible that the parent saw the kid after 5 or 6 seconds, but just couldn't get to them. If the kid darted off the other way, it'd never be a story and people wouldn't hate the parents. But their inattentiveness would have been the same. He just happened to dart into the gorilla habitat. It's a bad situation for everyone.

[boozehound]

I'm so sick of this idea that all parents are created equal. Bullshit. Like every other job on the planet, there are good parents, bad parents and mediocre parents.

In the last 7 years I've been to the Zoo countless times. I've brought multiple children of various ages and I've been with people who brought children of multiple ages. Guess what? No one was nearly killed by a wild animal because we parented. We made rules for those old enough to understand them (and 4 is plenty old enough as any daycare/preschool administration would know) and for those that couldn't or wouldn't follow the rules, they had to be held, in a stroller or holding an adult hand.

Parenting is hard, but good parenting is not impossible. It does take constant vigilance and awareness, time to teach rules, and it sometimes means leaving before you're ready when junior announces his plan to enter a wild animal's cage. By the age of 4, if you care enough and pay enough attention, you know whether or not you have a kid who will just accept a "no" or who needs to be removed. I guarantee this is not the first time junior has taken off.

So, while nothing is impossible, I'll go ahead and claim that a child in my care entering a wild animal enclosure is completely improbable. After going to the Zoo as much as I have with as many little kids as I have, I feel perfectly fine in saying that.

The question is, will you now judge me because you don't think this mother should be judged? I'm not the perfect mother, but my child and the children who've been in my care have never been in that kind danger.

This is a ridiculous argument to make. It is completely improbable that children in anyone's care are going to end up in a gorilla enclosure at the zoo. Tens of thousands of terrible and inattentive parents bring their kids to the Zoo without ending up in a wild animal enclosure. There is virtually no correlation / causation that can be drawn from this anecdotal data point due to the sample size of actual incidents occurring at the Cincinnati Zoo, or any Zoo, being so small. Almost anyone can make this statement, regardless of parenting ability.

My point is that we have VERY LITTLE information about what transpired, and that it is premature to judge the parents too harshly with the information we have at this point (which is almost none, as far as I can gather). I'm glad that you are such a super-parent that there is literally no chance that a child could misbehave in your care. You should feel really proud of that. Most of us aren't that good.

So yeah, I guess I am going to judge you (and others) for judging the parents, AT THIS POINT. If we get some actual information that the parents were being inattentive / negligent then I may have a different opinion. Right now everybody's opinion is based on (1) a healthy dose of conjecture, coupled with (2) an emotional response to the death of the gorilla.

It is a terrible situation that almost never happens. I don't get the rush to blame.

[ammtd34]

(2) an emotional response to the death of the gorilla.


I think this is it. A kid running through up the hill away from the gorilla pit and a kid running into the gorilla pit requires the same non-action from a parent. The fact that the gorilla had to be shot doesn't make the parents worse than if he ran the other way.

[NY44]

Eh, I'll bite. I don't know the details/the whole story either, but there is clear blame to be faced here. Over 1 million people visit this zoo every year, a large portion being children, and this has never happened before.

The exception to the rule in this situation is obviously the child and parents. I don't think it's right or necessary to condemn or punish the parents, but give me a break. Mistakes were made, and I'm sure they're well aware of that having come close to losing their boy.

[muskiefan82]

The only safe thing I think I can say is that I am glad the person with the rifle has really good aim.

[More Cowbell]

I really don't understand why everyone feels the need to jump to judgement about something they know virtually nothing about. Unless you were there or saw a video of the kid getting away, how could you know the mom was being a poor parent?

I was at the mall a couple years ago. I saw my daughter (3 years old) was walking to my wife and turned my head away. Instead of keeping going to my wife, she turned and went down the escalator. If she had gotten hurt on the escalator, a la Mallrats, should we have had our kids taken from us?

This just makes me think of a public execution where everyone is shaming the punished. People on social media are so quick to attack. I saw they even posted the Mom's name, workplace and contact information.

[boozehound]

Eh, I'll bite. I don't know the details/the whole story either, but there is clear blame to be faced here. Over 1 million people visit this zoo every year, a large portion being children, and this has never happened before.

The exception to the rule in this situation is obviously the child and parents. I don't think it's right or necessary to condemn or punish the parents, but give me a break. Mistakes were made, and I'm sure they're well aware of that having come close to losing their boy.

I think this is a fair statement, but I would argue that blame can virtually always be assigned in almost any tragic situation if you look hard enough.


I think this is it. A kid running through up the hill away from the gorilla pit and a kid running into the gorilla pit requires the same non-action from a parent. The fact that the gorilla had to be shot doesn't make the parents worse than if he ran the other way.

This sums up my opinion very well. Parents have momentary lapses of attention all the time, that could result in something tragic happening to their child. This is just life. We all do things every day that could, possibly, result in our death or the death of others. Again - that's life.

This event was incredibly statistically unlikely. There certainly are actions that the parents could have engaged in that would have prevented the child from entering the gorilla habitat. The fact that they didn't does not automatically make them bad parents, nor does it (in my opinion) make the vilification that I have seen justified.

To me this is analogous to glancing down at your car radio and causing an accident because you didn't see the car in front of you slow down. It's an action that virtually everybody engages in many times a day without consequence, that occasionally results in a tragic consequence. Thanks to the internet we now have a forum for thousands of people to pontificate about how they have never, not even once, glanced down at their radio, and that the people who do are terrible drivers who must face swift and brutal justice.

[SemajParlor]

I think this is a fair statement, but I would argue that blame can virtually always be assigned in almost any tragic situation if you look hard enough.

I don't think this is much of a controversial statement. Isn't this pretty much the point of the justice system?

[More Cowbell]

Eh, I'll bite. I don't know the details/the whole story either, but there is clear blame to be faced here. Over 1 million people visit this zoo every year, a large portion being children, and this has never happened before.


Why do you feel the need to blame someone? Sometimes shitty things happen.

[NY44]

Why do you feel the need to blame someone? Sometimes shitty things happen.

Because sometimes shitty things don't have to happen. See: the rest of my post..

[nuts4xu]

If we want to assign blame, lets lay the blame at the foot of the 4 year old. What was he thinking? That is a moat to separate you from dangerous animals, it's not the wave pool at Soak City.

Shit happens, and you can blame everyone involved. Blame the parents, blame the people who were in the area who may have seen the kid crawl into the bushes, blame the gorilla, blame the female gorillas for not convincing Harambe to go inside for sexy time, blame the zoo keepers who couldn't coax Harambe away from the child, blame Marge Schott for loving elephants more than gorillas, blame Thane Maynard for having gorillas that do gorilla stuff.

I can see how a kid might wonder away, and knowing my son at the age of four, could even ninja his way through to a 417 pound Silverback. At the zoo the people watching is fascinating. I may not be watching my own kid, but it is only because I am distracted by a kid who behaves even worse....or a family of hillbillies roaming around. If the exhibit was that crowded, why didn't anyone else notice the bushes ruffling or a 4 year old climbing over a railing? If no one else saw the child, he must have acted quickly.

[boozehound]

I don't think this is much of a controversial statement. Isn't this pretty much the point of the justice system?

I'm not sure I follow. My point was that we have tragic events unfold on a daily basis that the justice system chooses not to even levy charges on, much less go to a trial, nor do we feel the need to excoriate the 'guilty' party in the court of public opinion. In my example of a distracted driver causing an accident, that is an event that plays out countless times a day and results in actual, human, deaths. For some reason we don't feel the need to call for justice and post people's names / workplaces / etc. on the internet. I feel that the level of blame being assigned in this situation does not fit the 'crime' as we know it - a parent who's child engaged in a stupid behavior while they were not watching.

If more evidence exists that the parent was truly negligent than I may change my opinion.

[bobbiemcgee]

If we want to assign blame, lets lay the blame at the foot of the 4 year old. What was he thinking? That is a moat to separate you from dangerous animals, it's not the wave pool at Soak City.

4 yr. old's don't think. They react. They see something that interests them and they are gone, and some of them are pretty damn fast. Still no excuse, as the parent has to know this.

[X-man]

4 yr. old's don't think. They react. They see something that interests them and they are gone, and some of them are pretty damn fast. Still no excuse, as the parent has to know this.

Apparently the kid slipped through a 6" high narrow opening behind some bushes. The opening is at a point in the fence line where they need to be able to open a grate related to the water flow into the moat. So I think it's fair to say that NO ONE is to blame for this. Shit happens. Unfortunately in this case, a gorilla had to be put down.

[outsideobserver11]

I really don't understand why everyone feels the need to jump to judgement about something they know virtually nothing about. Unless you were there or saw a video of the kid getting away, how could you know the mom was being a poor parent?

I was at the mall a couple years ago. I saw my daughter (3 years old) was walking to my wife and turned my head away. Instead of keeping going to my wife, she turned and went down the escalator. If she had gotten hurt on the escalator, a la Mallrats, should we have had our kids taken from us?

This just makes me think of a public execution where everyone is shaming the punished. People on social media are so quick to attack. I saw they even posted the Mom's name, workplace and contact information.

It all would have been ok though because somebody would have shot the escalator!

I've always found it interesting how society develops a soft spot for animals over humans, it's especially evident in movies. Take "I am Legend" for instance, people die throughout but the dog scene is what gets to people. I realize that it's a movie and fantasy, but a lot of those same compassions apply to real life situations as well.

Imagine being the guy that had to shoot the gorilla. I know it's his job and he's been trained for that situation, but it still couldn't have been an easy thing to do.

[Xville]

I don't know the details of the situation in terms of were the parents acting negligently or not and right now no one does. However, I will say it is really going to piss me off if these parents try to sue the zoo because they weren't watching their kid and he happened to fall in. I can definitely see that happening.

In regards to the whole compassion for animal thing. The reason that there is compassion is because none of this is the animal's fault....there is a lot of blame to go around except for the animal itself.

[Xtemporaneous]

I don't know the details of the situation in terms of were the parents acting negligently or not and right now no one does. However, I will say it is really going to piss me off if these parents try to sue the zoo because they weren't watching their kid and he happened to fall in. I can definitely see that happening.

In regards to the whole compassion for animal thing. The reason that there is compassion is because none of this is the animal's fault....there is a lot of blame to go around except for the animal itself.

Oh man could you imagine the ridicule this family would face should they TRY to sue the Zoo? The shouldn't and they won't. Plain and simple. If they know better they'll move to another city without a zoo.

As for the layout of the area... If memory serves - theres a fence (pretty basic) that's easy to slip under/through, then some bushes that if someone were walking through should tip off someone to tell that child to step the F back. Then after than is a plummet into a moat. Which sounds like what happened to this kid. Plus it's a weekend day right? That exhibit is almost always busy. Some other adult didn't see that kid crawling through the bushes and speak up? I know if it were me and I saw a kid crawling through the bushes, even if it's not mine, I'll damn sure tell that kid to get back on the right side of the fence.

[SemajParlor]

I'm not sure I follow. My point was that we have tragic events unfold on a daily basis that the justice system chooses not to even levy charges on, much less go to a trial, nor do we feel the need to excoriate the 'guilty' party in the court of public opinion. In my example of a distracted driver causing an accident, that is an event that plays out countless times a day and results in actual, human, deaths. For some reason we don't feel the need to call for justice and post people's names / workplaces / etc. on the internet. I feel that the level of blame being assigned in this situation does not fit the 'crime' as we know it - a parent who's child engaged in a stupid behavior while they were not watching.

If more evidence exists that the parent was truly negligent than I may change my opinion.


That's a good response. I actually agree with pretty much everything you're saying - and to be quite frank I'm not going to pretend to be up in arms about a Gorilla already in captive being shot. I love animals - but the amount of activists coming out of woodwork seems to be a little disingenuous. Then again, I didn't really bat an eye at the whole Cecil the Lion story either.

Call me crazy, I care more about unarmed human beings being shot and killed unnecessarily. You would think the rest of America would as well... but that's another topic for another day.

[boozehound]

That's a good response. I actually agree with pretty much everything you're saying - and to be quite frank I'm not going to pretend to be up in arms about a Gorilla already in captive being shot. I love animals - but the amount of activists coming out of woodwork seems to be a little disingenuous. Then again, I didn't really bat an eye at the whole Cecil the Lion story either.

Call me crazy, I care more about unarmed human beings being shot and killed unnecessarily. You would think the rest of America would as well... but that's another topic for another day.

Thank you.

I agree very much with you last point. I was watching people holding a vigil for the Gorilla on Memorial day on the news, and it struck me that many people are more concerned with a Gorilla than they are human life.

[X-band '01]

What would the animal activists say about this crocodile down in Australia?

CBS News - Friend Dragged Off Beach by Crocodile at Night in Australia (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/friend-dragged-off-beach-by-crocodile-at-night-australia/)


"You can't legislate against human stupidity," Entsch said. "If you go in swimming at 10 o'clock at night, you're going to get consumed."

[Xville]

Thank you.

I agree very much with you last point. I was watching people holding a vigil for the Gorilla on Memorial day on the news, and it struck me that many people are more concerned with a Gorilla than they are human life.

well, an innocent life was ended because humans made mistakes. It was a death that could have been avoided on multiple levels....if the zoo had better barriers, if the mom had been paying better attention, if the 4 year old had listened to his mother etc. None of this was the gorilla's fault and it sucks it had to die because of mistakes that humans made.

[XUFan09]

http://www.foreverymom.com/witness-to-cincinnati-zoo-gorilla-death-it-wasnt-the-parents-fault/#.V0zf-ZqiM-s.facebook

Eyewitness account. Apparently the kid was holding onto his mother just moments before taking off and getting lost in the crowd. Toddlers are sneaky quick and can easily get out of sight in a crowd of adults and older kids. Stuff like this plays out in similar fashion all too often, even with good parents. Hell, that's the reason a lot of people leash the kids at this age.

What made this time different was an improbability of improbabilities. Really, think about this, those who are saying, "Well, no one else's kid ever fell in the enclosure." Yes, exactly. Like someone said before, even shitty parents that basically ignore their kids haven't had anything like this happen to him. Why? Because a number of things had to go wrong in perfect sequence for this to play out with the kid falling in the enclosure. He had to slip away from his mother at just the right time, at just the right place relative to the enclosure, with just the right mesh of people nearby, and he had to find one of the few key openings (a spot designed to allow water through). And, all this had to happen at the exact moment when the kid had the full level of determination, without distraction, required to follow through.

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[GoMuskies]

even with good parents. Hell, that's the reason a lot of people leash the kids at this age.



There's no such thing as a "good parent" who leashes their kid. If you leash your kids, you are evil.

[Muskie in dayton]

I'm so sick of this idea that all parents are created equal. Bullshit. Like every other job on the planet, there are good parents, bad parents and mediocre parents.

In the last 7 years I've been to the Zoo countless times. I've brought multiple children of various ages and I've been with people who brought children of multiple ages. Guess what? No one was nearly killed by a wild animal because we parented. We made rules for those old enough to understand them (and 4 is plenty old enough as any daycare/preschool administration would know) and for those that couldn't or wouldn't follow the rules, they had to be held, in a stroller or holding an adult hand.

Parenting is hard, but good parenting is not impossible. It does take constant vigilance and awareness, time to teach rules, and it sometimes means leaving before you're ready when junior announces his plan to enter a wild animal's cage. By the age of 4, if you care enough and pay enough attention, you know whether or not you have a kid who will just accept a "no" or who needs to be removed. I guarantee this is not the first time junior has taken off.

So, while nothing is impossible, I'll go ahead and claim that a child in my care entering a wild animal enclosure is completely improbable. After going to the Zoo as much as I have with as many little kids as I have, I feel perfectly fine in saying that.

The question is, will you now judge me because you don't think this mother should be judged? I'm not the perfect mother, but my child and the children who've been in my care have never been in that kind danger.

Why would I judge you? I agree with everything you said: "nothing is impossible" and "completely improbable" are the same thing as "possible".

[XUFan09]

There's no such thing as a "good parent" who leashes their kid. If you leash your kids, you are evil.
But it's such a useful topic for mocking them when they're snarky teenagers! #HealthyRelationships

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[Muskie in dayton]

http://www.foreverymom.com/witness-to-cincinnati-zoo-gorilla-death-it-wasnt-the-parents-fault/#.V0zf-ZqiM-s.facebook

Eyewitness account. Apparently the kid was holding onto his mother just moments before taking off and getting lost in the crowd. Toddlers are sneaky quick and can easily get out of sight in a crowd of adults and older kids. Stuff like this plays out in similar fashion all too often, even with good parents. Hell, that's the reason a lot of people leash the kids at this age.

What made this time different was an improbability of improbabilities. Really, think about this, those who are saying, "Well, no one else's kid ever fell in the enclosure." Yes, exactly. Like someone said before, even shitty parents that basically ignore their kids haven't had anything like this happen to him. Why? Because a number of things had to go wrong in perfect sequence for this to play out with the kid falling in the enclosure. He had to slip away from his mother at just the right time, at just the right place relative to the enclosure, with just the right mesh of people nearby, and he had to find one of the few key openings (a spot designed to allow water through). And, all this had to happen at the exact moment when the kid had the full level of determination, without distraction, required to follow through.

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Thanks for posting this. Clearly this is a highly improbable tragedy that could have happened to anyone of us. Hopefully we can disperse the lynch mob, learn from this, and move on.

[xu82]

I'd like to say this couldn't have happened to me, but that would be a lie. No one is perfect every second. Having said that, was this as freaky as winning the lottery two weeks in a row, or are people who know them surprised something like this didn't happen sooner?

[Caveat]

How about I try this:

Is there anyone on this board who is or has been the parent of a toddler, and believes that this could never, under any circumstances, ever have happened to you? Is there anyone out there vain enough to say that?

I have no problem saying this could have been me. Not because I am an inattentive or bad parent, but because toddlers are going to be toddlers, and I am not perfect. For that reason alone I will not judge. "Let anyone of you who is without sin throw the first stone at her".

So, anyone?

So, the next time someone plows into your car because of a complete accident (missed seeing the stop sign, didn't see you in the blind spot, etc.) their insurance shouldn't pay for the damage? Because "hey, none of us are perfect drivers and this sort of thing could happen to any of us!"

Guess we should also let drunk drivers go, because who among us hasn't gotten behind the wheel after having one too many and made a bad decision that we didn't get caught doing.

[Muskie in dayton]

So, the next time someone plows into your car because of a complete accident (missed seeing the stop sign, didn't see you in the blind spot, etc.) their insurance shouldn't pay for the damage? Because "hey, none of us are perfect drivers and this sort of thing could happen to any of us!"

Guess we should also let drunk drivers go, because who among us hasn't gotten behind the wheel after having one too many and made a bad decision that we didn't get caught doing.

So by making this comparison you're concluding that she did something criminal. Going back to my original point, we don't know the facts, so stop rushing to judgment. If it turns out she was criminally negligent in her parenting, then you can make that comparison, and I fully agree she should be held accountable. If this happened while she stopped to take a picture, as an eye witness stated in the link from XUFan09's post above, then you and many others owe her an apology.

[bleedXblue]

So, the next time someone plows into your car because of a complete accident (missed seeing the stop sign, didn't see you in the blind spot, etc.) their insurance shouldn't pay for the damage? Because "hey, none of us are perfect drivers and this sort of thing could happen to any of us!"

Guess we should also let drunk drivers go, because who among us hasn't gotten behind the wheel after having one too many and made a bad decision that we didn't get caught doing.

This is a ridiculous comparison........

[bigdiggins]

This is a ridiculous comparison........

You're right it is. When you get in a car there is an assumed level of risk. Harambe should not have had to assume any risk by staying in his enclosure.

[GoMuskies]

You're right it is. When you get in a car there is an assumed level of risk. Harambe should not have had to assume any risk by staying in his enclosure.

Harrambe is also just an animal, so.....

[bigdiggins]

Harrambe is also just an animal, so.....

And the kids father is just a dirtbag that's been arrested four times, so...

[GoMuskies]

And the kids father is just a dirtbag that's been arrested four times, so...

Cincinnati police should have shot the dad. Let Cincy 5-0 do what they do!

[NY44]

And the kids father is just a dirtbag that's been arrested four times, so...

How relevant!

Also, this is a nice step in the right direction: Family of boy who fell into gorilla exhibit asks for zoo donations in animal’s memory - Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/01/family-of-boy-who-fell-into-gorilla-exhibit-asks-for-zoo-donations-in-animals-memory/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_gorilla-family-1045am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory)

[GoMuskies]

How relevant!



The father who wasn't even there! How dare he send his wife to the zoo with the kids without going himself!

I wonder if the dad got arrested for something awful like stealing CDs from a music store, stealing a dog or pulling his pants down at a bar! Dirtbag!

[Cheesehead]

I blame Obama

[GoMuskies]

I blame Obama

For something involving a gorilla. That's racist!

[Cheesehead]

For something involving a gorilla. That's racist!

you are violating my safe space

[xubrew]

If you've ever read or sent a text while driving, you could have easily caused an accident and been criminally responsible. And, who's to say that by some random freakish chance, you crashed into a truck transporting endangered species and ended up killing them?? I'd say the odds of that happening to someone who takes their eyes off the road for a few seconds are about the same as the odds of this happening to a parent at the zoo.

It was a FREAK accident. I honestly don't see how anyone who is a parent couldn't empathize on some level with the mother. I'm actually somewhat shocked by that. It had to have been a one-in-a-billion chance. I don't think it necessarily makes her any more or less negligent than anyone else.

I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'm almost certain that there are more toddlers shoot themselves or who drink a cleaning supply than who fall into a cage at the zoo. Yet, there is never this level of collective outrage aimed at the parents when something like that happens, nor should there be, really. What happened to this kid has got to be a million times less likely than a toddler who drinks bleach. It was a freak accident. I can't help but think that anyone who blames the mother is either not being honest with themselves, or has a very incorrect concept of how flawless their own lives are.

[bigdiggins]

The father who wasn't even there! How dare he send his wife to the zoo with the kids without going himself!

I wonder if the dad got arrested for something awful like stealing CDs from a music store, stealing a dog or pulling his pants down at a bar! Dirtbag!

Perhaps if he was more present in his kids life these things wouldn't happen.

It was gun offenses, drugs, burglary, etc. Maybe if the parents had any respect for rules or authority they could instill those values in their child.

[XUFan09]

Perhaps if he was more present in his kids life these things wouldn't happen.

It was gun offenses, drugs, burglary, etc. Maybe if the parents had any for rules or authority they could instill those values in their child.

It's odd when regulars on this board start trolling.

[bigdiggins]

If you've ever read or sent a text while driving, you could have easily caused an accident and been criminally responsible. And, who's to say that by some random freakish chance, you crashed into a truck transporting endangered species and ended up killing them?? I'd say the odds of that happening to someone who takes their eyes off the road for a few seconds are about the same as the odds of this happening to a parent at the zoo.

It was a FREAK accident. I honestly don't see how anyone who is a parent couldn't empathize on some level with the mother. I'm actually somewhat shocked by that. It had to have been a one-in-a-billion chance. I don't think it necessarily makes her any more or less negligent than anyone else.

I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'm almost certain that there are more toddlers shoot themselves or who drink a cleaning supply than who fall into a cage at the zoo. Yet, there is never this level of collective outrage aimed at the parents when something like that happens, nor should there be, really. What happened to this kid has got to be a million times less likely than a toddler who drinks bleach. It was a freak accident. I can't help but think that anyone who blames the mother is either not being honest with themselves, or has a very incorrect concept of how flawless their own lives are.

Toddlers shooting themselves, or drinking bleach don't cause harm on innocents and there are repurcussions for those actions. In this case the harm was done to another, and there are no repurcussions.

If I was in a traffic accident because I was texting and driving (which by the way if you do cause an accident because you are distracted driving you should lose driving priveleges, but I digress on that topic for another time) there would be repurcussions. I would be subject to some level of punishment. In this case the only repurcussions or punishment are on the only living thing involved that did nothing but stay in his enclosure.

[X-band '01]

If you've ever read or sent a text while driving, you could have easily caused an accident and been criminally responsible. And, who's to say that by some random freakish chance, you crashed into a truck transporting endangered species and ended up killing them?? I'd say the odds of that happening to someone who takes their eyes off the road for a few seconds are about the same as the odds of this happening to a parent at the zoo.

It was a FREAK accident. I honestly don't see how anyone who is a parent couldn't empathize on some level with the mother. I'm actually somewhat shocked by that. It had to have been a one-in-a-billion chance. I don't think it necessarily makes her any more or less negligent than anyone else.

I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'm almost certain that there are more toddlers shoot themselves or who drink a cleaning supply than who fall into a cage at the zoo. Yet, there is never this level of collective outrage aimed at the parents when something like that happens, nor should there be, really. What happened to this kid has got to be a million times less likely than a toddler who drinks bleach. It was a freak accident. I can't help but think that anyone who blames the mother is either not being honest with themselves, or has a very incorrect concept of how flawless their own lives are.

Harambe was the first animal that had to be fatally shot in the 144-year history of the Cincinnati Zoo.

[GoMuskies]

Perhaps if he was more present in his kids life these things wouldn't happen.


This is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen posted here. And consider, _LH has 1,620 posts here.

[SemajParlor]

We're just brushing over the comment about how there is never outrage aimed at parents when a toddler shoots themselves, nor should there be, huh?

[SemajParlor]

Some of these examples of "shit happens" really showcase a clash of cultures in this country.

[GoMuskies]

We're just brushing over the comment about how there is never outrage aimed at parents when a toddler shoots themselves, nor should there be, huh?

Yeah, that's kinda bizarre. If a toddler finds its way to having access to a gun....that's an issue.

[NY44]

Toddlers shooting themselves, or drinking bleach don't cause harm on innocents and there are repurcussions for those actions.

Do you not consider children themselves to be innocents? You have pretty clearly placed a gorilla's life over that of a human child by reasoning that there should be repercussions because the gorilla was put down.

If these parents are to be charged with anything, it will be for the neglect of their child's safety, not that of a gorilla...

[xubrew]

Yeah, that's kinda bizarre. If a toddler finds its way to having access to a gun....that's an issue.

I should have chosen my words better. I didn't want to say (even though I kind of did) that toddlers getting ahold of guns is not an issue. My intent was to show that people don't get upset about that, but are losing their freakin' minds over this.

Yes, it's an issue. But, it has happened. And, when it has happened, no one went apeshit (pun intended) the way they are over this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975160/My-baby-gone-Outpouring-grief-toddler-4-dies-Texas-accidentally-shooting-gun-babysitter-s-home.html

http://www.inquisitr.com/3020441/2-year-old-boy-accidentally-kills-himself-with-moms-gun/

Over the Fourth of July, you can almost count on some small child being seriously hurt somewhere in this country. You can also bank on people not going near the level of apeshit over it and expressing all this collective outrage toward the negligent parents because of it.

[SemajParlor]

Perhaps if he was more present in his kids life these things wouldn't happen.

It was gun offenses, drugs, burglary, etc. Maybe if the parents had any respect for rules or authority they could instill those values in their child.

Can we get confirmation if this post was serious or trolling? I need to know if I should sign off until Mid October or not.

[bigdiggins]

Can we get confirmation if this post was serious or trolling? I need to know if I should sign off until Mid October or not.

Was it an blatant exaggeration yes, just as ridiculous as the comparisons to a car accident and the oh well kids will run around attitude that some of the posts have.

Do I think the adults involved should be subject to bearing some responsibility, also yes. If that's for child endangerment great as that is what caused all this to begin with. Was the mother intentionally being a bad parent, I certainly hope not, but even in an accident you bear responsibility for your actions (or inaction as the case may be).

[Juice]

Was it an blatant exaggeration yes, just as ridiculous as the comparisons to a car accident and the oh well kids will run around attitude that some of the posts have.

Do I think the adults involved should be subject to bearing some responsibility, also yes. If that's for child endangerment great as that is what caused all this to begin with. Was the mother intentionally being a bad parent, I certainly hope not, but even in an accident you bear responsibility for your actions (or inaction as the case may be).

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2919.22

Here's your code section. Specifically look at the A section. Did the parent "create a substantial risk to the health or safety of the child, by violating a duty of care, protection, or support" when she looked away? It depends on how long she wasn't paying attention and other factors. It's a damn hard charge to prove in trial especially when children can get into trouble in a moments notice. Just because something really shitty and unfortunate happens does it mean that someone is criminally liable. Sometimes it's just a really shitty and unfortunate incident.

[xu82]

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2919.22

Here's your code section. Specifically look at the A section. Did the parent "create a substantial risk to the health or safety of the child, by violating a duty of care, protection, or support" when she looked away? It depends on how long she wasn't paying attention and other factors. It's a damn hard charge to prove in trial especially when children can get into trouble in a moments notice. Just because something really shitty and unfortunate happens does it mean that someone is criminally liable. Sometimes it's just a really shitty and unfortunate incident.

We had a group of friends years ago who all started having kids about the same time. There was a nice, hard working, well educated couple we liked. The wife went out to see the husband off to work one day and the 2 small kids followed. The dad backed over one child in the driveway, killing her. No one faced charges. There was nothing you could do to punish them any more than what they were living. If you think it couldn't possibly happen to you, well, I've never been that cocky since seeing what it did to that family. I am no better than they were, just a little more fortunate. It just takes a second of distraction.

I'm sure other have stories of tragedy. It's part of life and no one is guaranteed to be above it.

[GoMuskies]

I think this is a good article for all the perfect parents out there this would NEVER happen to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

[xu82]

I think this is a good article for all the perfect parents out there this would NEVER happen to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

Well, that was not for the weak. (Or anyone with a short attention span.) I'm pretty sure no one thinks it will happen to them. But it happens...

[GoMuskies]

OK, do the parents of the 2 year-old who watched their kid get dragged away by an alligator at Disneyworld need to be publicly flogged as well?

[nuts4xu]

OK, do the parents of the 2 year-old who watched their kid get dragged away by an alligator at Disneyworld need to be publicly flogged as well?

They need a leash for that rogue child of theirs!! How dare they!

[Juice]

OK, do the parents of the 2 year-old who watched their kid get dragged away by an alligator at Disneyworld need to be publicly flogged as well?

I would say yes for the sake of consistency but the damn alligator who actually attacked a kid, unlike Harambe wasn't killed. Also, people may not want to acknowledge this part but these parents are white.

[Xville]

OK, do the parents of the 2 year-old who watched their kid get dragged away by an alligator at Disneyworld need to be publicly flogged as well?

Well, maybe. There were no swimming signs correct? I mean its a horrible tragedy and not one i wish upon anyone, but what were they doing letting their 2 year old be in the water?

[xu82]

I lived around gators for 30+ years and would never let a child (or dog for that matter) anywhere near that water. However, if I were from Nebraska, had little or no gator exposure and saw that white sand beach with all those lounge chairs...... I see how it could happen.

A guy near Hilton Head had his Irish Setter taken by a gator. While it was swimming around still drowning the dog he shot the gator.....and was then arrested for discharging a firearm.

[bigdiggins]

OK, do the parents of the 2 year-old who watched their kid get dragged away by an alligator at Disneyworld need to be publicly flogged as well?

They should have followed the rules, but in this case I would say they've been punished with the horrible loss of a child.

And if the child was already dead, why were they just randomly slaughtering innocent animals. At least in the case of Harambe the argument can be made they had to kill the animal to save the child. There was no saving this child.

[SemajParlor]

Also, people may not want to acknowledge this part but these parents are white.

I had and still have no clue what race the parents were in the Zoo thing.

[GoMuskies]

these parents are white.

The news reports mentioned they were from Nebraska, so saying they are white is redundant.

[GoMuskies]

I had and still have no clue what race the parents were in the Zoo thing.

I just assumed they were white. Were they not?

[SemajParlor]

I just assumed they were white. Were they not?

Same, I really don't know. Seemed like the comment was implying that the Alligator parents were white and that's why they were getting benefit of the doubt? I don't know. It's hard to keep track of stuff.

[Juice]

I just assumed they were white. Were they not?

You guys obviously missed the stories on the "criminal background" of the dad who wasn't even at the zoo and the "outrage" during Joe Deters' press conference after he announced that he wouldn't file charges against the mom and his reference to her not smoking crack.

[GoMuskies]

I knew the dad had a criminal background. I'm not sure why I learned that, but it was definitely in a story somewhere in this thread. I didn't make the leap from criminal background to black, though.

I guess I should have known based on the athleticism necessary to scale the barrier and get into the enclosure.

[XUFan09]

Well, maybe. There were no swimming signs correct? I mean its a horrible tragedy and not one i wish upon anyone, but what were they doing letting their 2 year old be in the water?
He was not actually in the water, if I recall, but actually on the beach a few feet from the water (which is a dangerous place to be when gators are around). Were there also signs saying to stay away from the water entirely and warning of gators? I heard in one place there were but have not been able to confirm whether it's true or just speculation that turned into a "fact."

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Xville]

He was not actually in the water, if I recall, but actually on the beach a few feet from the water (which is a dangerous place to be when gators are around). Were there also signs saying to stay away from the water entirely and warning of gators? I heard in one place there were but have not been able to confirm whether it's true or just speculation that turned into a "fact."

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Every report I have seen says that the boy was wading which I'm assuming meant he was in at least a bit of water. I doubt an alligator would come out of water to make an attack but I could be qrong.

[GoMuskies]

I read "wading" as well. And there was a lifeguard despite the no swimming signs, which I thought kind of odd.

[cfish]

I knew the dad had a criminal background. I'm not sure why I learned that, but it was definitely in a story somewhere in this thread. I didn't make the leap from criminal background to black, though.

I guess I should have known based on the athleticism necessary to scale the barrier and get into the enclosure.

That's freaking hilarious!

[Cheesehead]

I read "wading" as well. And there was a lifeguard despite the no swimming signs, which I thought kind of odd.

Ditto. The child was in fact in the water while his sister was not.

[XUFan09]

Ditto. The child was in fact in the water while his sister was not.
Ah okay.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

OK, do the parents of the 2 year-old who watched their kid get dragged away by an alligator at Disneyworld need to be publicly flogged as well?

Of course not! the alligator was not killed.

[GoMuskies]

Of course not! the alligator was not killed.

They have killed at least five gators in the wake of this incident. In fact, EVERY gator found on Disney property is killed.

[boozehound]

Well, maybe. There were no swimming signs correct? I mean its a horrible tragedy and not one i wish upon anyone, but what were they doing letting their 2 year old be in the water?

It was a beach, and while there were 'no swimming' signs, I would argue it would not be unreasonable to think that wading is OK. If the level of risk is that high (and based on the number of gators they are pulling out of that lake, it seems like it is) then Disney should have had signage that more accurately described the level of risk, IMHO.

[GoMuskies]

This is the first gator attack at the property since 1986, so I think it would have been hard to predict that the risk was "high" prior to Sunday. But they probably should have had a sign warning about gators. I mean, it's common sense, but you kind of suspend common sense when you're there. You could probably forgive someone for thinking that things there are so well controlled by Disney that they wouldn't even have gators in the water even thought that's impossible in that part of Florida.

[SemajParlor]

They have killed at least five gators in the wake of this incident. In fact, EVERY gator found on Disney property is killed.

Gator lives matter.

[MADXSTER]

I had and still have no clue what race the parents were in the Zoo thing.

Same

[MADXSTER]

A co-worker has been to that exact location. You have the pool, then the beach, then the water. He said at night they have movie night for the kids on the beach. Every night kids and adults(his kids as well) will walk about ankle deep along the waters edge. He said that's probably what the kid was doing. He said he never saw anyone with the water above their knees. He said there are 'no swimming' signs but nothing warning you about alligators.

[ammtd34]

This tripadvisor picture (https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/ef/61/c8/waterfront.jpg) shows adults walking along the water's edge (this may be a different hotel, but it's the same body of water), so it must be pretty common and seems to be encouraged.

[xubrew]

They have killed at least five gators in the wake of this incident. In fact, EVERY gator found on Disney property is killed.

Nevermind then.

[MauriceX]

Nevermind then.

I think there is a distinct difference in why people were upset about Harambe but not about the alligators. The gorilla was an endangered species. Alligators are fairly common. I think that is what made animal activists the most upset. As for the common populace, gorillas are often humanized and considered cute. I've seen a few different reports talking about how saving ugly animals isn't a priority for people. (Link to a couple here (http://nautil.us/issue/19/illusions/which-endangered-species-would-you-save)and here (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/using-humor-to-protect-ugly-animals-because-they-cant-all-be-as-cute-as-pandas/))

[XUFan09]

I believe the American alligator is actually threatened, but that doesn't change your latter point.

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[xubrew]

I think there is a distinct difference in why people were upset about Harambe but not about the alligators. The gorilla was an endangered species. Alligators are fairly common. I think that is what made animal activists the most upset. As for the common populace, gorillas are often humanized and considered cute. I've seen a few different reports talking about how saving ugly animals isn't a priority for people. (Link to a couple here (http://nautil.us/issue/19/illusions/which-endangered-species-would-you-save)and here (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/using-humor-to-protect-ugly-animals-because-they-cant-all-be-as-cute-as-pandas/))

I understand that, and I agree.

I do genuinely think that what happened at the zoo was a tragedy, and I hate that when I say this people assume that I'm not sorry about what happened, but saving the child was definitely the right decision, and I think it was far more the result of a freak accident than an act of gross negligence. I think what happened at Disney World is a bigger tragedy because they were not able to save the child, yet there seems to be far less despair over it.

[xeus]

Regarding the American alligator, read this from the Smithsonian (https://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Americanalligator.cfm):
Once on the verge of extinction, the American alligator has made a remarkable recovery. Due to strict conservation measures and extensive research, it is no longer endangered except in scattered areas of its range. However, the American alligator is listed as threatened on the U.S. Endangered Species List because it is very similar in appearance to the American crocodile, which is endangered, and hunters are likely to confuse the two species. Hunting is allowed in some states, but it is heavily controlled. The greatest threat is currently destruction of habitat; this includes water management systems and increased levels of mercury and dioxins in the water.
Because alligators will feed on almost anything, they pose a mild threat to humans. In Florida, where there is the greatest alligator population, there were five deaths to alligator attacks from 1973 to 1990. Dogs and other pets are also sometimes killed.

Florida actually does have an alligator management program (http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/harvest/).

As for why people seem more upset about the death of Harambe than the alligators,a lot has to do with how they are portrayed. I don't know the answer. The species we favor is not an easy thing for me to explain, but think about the fact that 110 million pigs are slaughtered in the US every year. Having you ever met a pig? They are some charming, intelligent motherfuckers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdpZG4YXELk. It's just easier to anthropromorphize some animals than it is others. Much easier to feel sympathy for the hairy gorilla that evolved into us, than some slimy baby-killing alligator. Some people will eat chicken but would never eat duck, thanks to Donald Duck, AFLAC, and Make Way for Ducklings.They eat dogs in China, but there was more collective outrage over Harambe than you'll ever see over dogburgers.

We animal people, like any group, span the spectrum, from conservative to radical. My experience in advocating for animals has been rooted in a pragmatic approach. We must always approach animal laws and regulations, which govern the relationship between animals and humans, as being necessary to a responsible exercise of the privilege - and responsibility - of our God-given dominion over them.

We must always consider public safety, but, equally as important, the humane treatment of animals when we consider this relationship. That is sometimes a difficult balance. Ask me about pit bulls.

[paulxu]

Having you ever met a pig? They are some charming, intelligent motherfuckers.

This calls to mind one of the best times when I was actually working. Had a friend who ran a food service equipment company.
Great guy, but he married a rather demanding woman (for lack of a better way to put it.)
So he threw a big party for his reps from all over the country for their 25th anniversary.
His wife wanted one of those Vietnamese pot bellied pigs. He didn't.
So the reps went out and got a really small regular pig, presented it to her at the party, told her it was the pot bellied thing, and she fell in love with it.
Took it home, treated it like a dog, run of the house, slept in their bedroom, etc.

Pretty soon the damn thing weighed in at about 250 lbs. He was VERY unhappy and thinking about bacon.
Have no idea whatever happened to the pig.

[Nigel Tufnel]

They have killed at least five gators in the wake of this incident. In fact, EVERY gator found on Disney property is killed.

Wildlife authorities probably thought killing them was more humane than dumping them in the middle of the Everglades to be consumed by the 20 foot pythons that are currently decimating the ecosystem down there. Recently read there have been multiple Nile saltwater crocs found in the Everglades too...that's scary.

[X-band '01]

This is the first gator attack at the property since 1986, so I think it would have been hard to predict that the risk was "high" prior to Sunday. But they probably should have had a sign warning about gators. I mean, it's common sense, but you kind of suspend common sense when you're there. You could probably forgive someone for thinking that things there are so well controlled by Disney that they wouldn't even have gators in the water even thought that's impossible in that part of Florida.

Every county in Florida has a decent alligator population. They're not even first in the country in terms of alligator population - Louisiana holds that distinction.

[X-band '01]

Wildlife authorities probably thought killing them was more humane than dumping them in the middle of the Everglades to be consumed by the 20 foot pythons that are currently decimating the ecosystem down there. Recently read there have been multiple Nile saltwater crocs found in the Everglades too...that's scary.

It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of exotic animal species located in the Everglades - it's not good throwing crocs into an ecosystem that's not designed for them.