O'Mara NOT Transferring

[MackAttack]

Per Shannon, Rumors of Sean O'Mara transferring from Xavier are untrue. He's 100 percent on board for next year.
https://twitter.com/slrussell/status/725381284973973504

[xu82]

I rarely bother to log on from my phone, but HALLELUJAH!!!

[XU3232]

Interesting considering this was on the Scout board from what everyone was saying... I wonder what really happened here but I'm glad to see this.

[Juice]

Interesting considering this was on the Scout board from what everyone was saying... I wonder what really happened here but I'm glad to see this.

He was definitely considering it. He just decided to stay.

[sgarcia]

He considered transferring? Never even knew. Glad he's staying. He'll be a 15-20 minute guy next year.

[NY44]

Was this a Scout rumor? It sounds like a Scout rumor.

[X-band '01]

Maybe he just wanted to f around with XavierHoops and Musketeer Madness.

[Drew]

He considered transferring? Never even knew. Glad he's staying. He'll be a 15-20 minute guy next year.

15-20? Who is he fighting with for minutes? I am thinking 25-30.

[markchal]

15-20? Who is he fighting with for minutes? I am thinking 25-30.

Gotta think he'll be only fighting himself. If he stays out of foul trouble and improves his d a bit, he should have no problem avg 25

[sgarcia]

15-20? Who is he fighting with for minutes? I am thinking 25-30.

We like to play a lot with 1 big and I don't think O'Mara will be ahead of Gaston. Also, Farr and Reynolds only averaged 20 minutes/game this past season.

[XU3232]

He was definitely considering it. He just decided to stay.

Thank you... that's what I was wondering.

[XMuskieFTW]

Phew.

[xudash]

Phew.

Phew Squared.

[XUFan09]

Was this a Scout rumor? It sounds like a Scout rumor.
It actually started on this board. Scout just confirmed it.

Shannon's wording is wrong. No one declared that O'Mara WAS transferring, so there were no rumors proven untrue. He was only considering it; he decided not to.

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[Juice]

Was this a Scout rumor? It sounds like a Scout rumor.

It's really not that hard to understand what happened.

[xu82]

It's really not that hard to understand what happened.

The "what" is fairly simple. The "why" makes me curious, but I'm just glad he's staying and I hope he's ultimately happy with his decision.

[Milhouse]

it was posted here first.

[GoMuskies]

Who gives a fuck where it was posted and/or confirmed?

[NY44]

It's really not that hard to understand what happened.

Easy does it, big guy.

I'm glad we as fans now have such access that we know when a player is "considering" transferring for 2 weeks.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

That's real good news. It really does not make any sense for him to transfer and sit for a year when he knows he can start on a top 10-15 ranked team.

[SemajParlor]

Scout is such a touchy subject around here.

I can't comprehend why people can't see why discussing hearsay about someone's personal life can at least be viewed as questionable.

The same thing happened with Jalen last year.

EDIT: I just read it was posted here first, so disregard any criticism. Scout rules!!!

[SemajParlor]

This is good news. I like O'Mara's game.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I agree, the guys can flat out score in the post with his back to the basket. That is something this team will need next year. I think his D and rebounding also improve.


This is good news. I like O'Mara's game.

[XUFan09]

This is good news. I like O'Mara's game.
Yeah, he was our best post scorer this past season, and that's when Farr and Reynolds were both good. He will be a nice complement to Gaston, whether they share the court or sub each other out.

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[xukeith]

Wish him all the luck but so far his 2 years have not been impressive.
He may have potential but I pray he is a Jason Love type grower ino a stud his senior year. He fouls too much and reminds me of lack of talent and just a space eater with an occasional rebound and a wide open layup/dunk. Gaston will probably get more pt. Hope O'Mara shocks me. Hope his FT % is 70%.

[xu82]

Wish him all the luck but so far his 2 years have not been impressive.
He may have potential but I pray he is a Jason Love type grower ino a stud his senior year. He fouls too much and reminds me of lack of talent and just a space eater with an occasional rebound and a wide open layup/dunk. Gaston will probably get more pt. Hope O'Mara shocks me. Hope his FT % is 70%.

Always the ray of damn sunshine.

Apparently we've been watching different things. He has issues, but he also has great strengths. He's a gazelle compared to Stainbrook, and I think we will continue to see him improve in all aspects of his game. Time will tell.

[XUFan09]

Always the ray of damn sunshine.

Apparently we've been watching different things. He has issues, but he also has great strengths. He's a gazelle compared to Stainbrook, and I think we will continue to see him improve in all aspects of his game. Time will tell.
Yeah, there is a reasonable latitude of opinion on O'Mara's overall value, but Keith is just wrong.

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[sirthought]

Wish him all the luck but so far his 2 years have not been impressive.
He may have potential but I pray he is a Jason Love type grower ino a stud his senior year. He fouls too much and reminds me of lack of talent and just a space eater with an occasional rebound and a wide open layup/dunk. Gaston will probably get more pt. Hope O'Mara shocks me. Hope his FT % is 70%.

Keith, I just see this guy completely different from you.

O'Mara could easily be better than many of the big men XU has had, from my point of view. Great skill set and feel for the game. He just needs time to play and work on some things. I see a way more talented big than JLove or KFreeze.

O'Mara had the unfortunate luck to be behind two bigs who had grown within the program and knew Mack's system better. Plus, we played a small forward at power forward, which clogged things up more. Farr and Reynolds weren't incredibly impressive their first two years either, but showed potential.

Of course O'Mara was green -- most bigs take longer to develop than guards.

I predict O'Mara will get the nod at the 5 before Gaston, who will likely start at the 4. What do I know? Nothing, obviously, but this makes sense to me.

I'm thrilled he's staying at Xavier.

[xu82]

I've said this previously, but I think Sean will be a much better player than Jalen before it's over. Not as athletic of course, but more refined (already).

[sirthought]

I've said this previously, but I think Sean will be a much better player that Jalen before it's over. Not as athletic of course, but more refined (already).

I completely agree. He has a great knack for scoring around the basket.

[Juice]

I've said this previously, but I think Sean will be a much better player than Jalen before it's over. Not as athletic of course, but more refined (already).

Offensively yes, but I don't think so defensively.

[xu82]

Offensively yes, but I don't think so defensively.

It's a balancing act, and I think he has the feet to show much better than past seasons when he knows we need him for more minutes. It's not like Jalen could get to the 16 minute mark without a couple of fouls. No show boat dunks, but better offense. Defense will certainly be the question.

[Muncie]

Matt was a step up from Freeze and Sean could be a step up from Matt. But Matt was such an excellent passer.

[XMuskieFTW]

Matt was a step up from Freeze and Sean could be a step up from Matt. But Matt was such an excellent passer.

And Matt having the ability to hit a jumper was big. Sean has good post moves like Matt and is a bit faster. If he can manage to add a jumper to his game and shoot around 70% on free throws, I can see him being better than Matt.

[XUFan09]

I can't see O'Mara being better than Matt. Matt was so good offensively that he was getting invited to NBA camps despite being a guaranteed liability defensively. He changed the game when he was in there, and Xavier was really lucky to have him. O'Mara is more mobile than Matt and a better defender already to go with good offensive skills, but his ceiling is probably a little short of Matt. That ceiling would still be realy good.

[scoscox]

I can't see O'Mara being better than Matt. Matt was so good offensively that he was getting invited to NBA camps despite being a guaranteed liability defensively. He changed the game when he was in there, and Xavier was really lucky to have him. O'Mara is more mobile than Matt and a better defender already to go with good offensive skills, but his ceiling is probably a little short of Matt. That ceiling would still be realy good.

Just based on his athleticism I think he has a higher ceiling than Matt and I certainly hope so. Hopefully we won't have to slow down the offense with Sean as much as we did with Matt. Matt was a better shooter, but that can be improved. As long as Sean figures out how to knock down a 10 foot face up jumper that will be good.

[NY44]

I can't see O'Mara being better than Matt. Matt was so good offensively that he was getting invited to NBA camps despite being a guaranteed liability defensively. He changed the game when he was in there, and Xavier was really lucky to have him. O'Mara is more mobile than Matt and a better defender already to go with good offensive skills, but his ceiling is probably a little short of Matt. That ceiling would still be realy good.

It's a pretty difficult comparison to make. I do think Matt was uniquely skilled and immensely underrated. However, O'Mara is a much better fit for this team and system. Our guards are just so damn fast, and love to get out and run. It's nice to have big men that can effectively keep up with that pace. However, in a traditional half court offense, few compare to Matt's passing ability. That guy was the man.

[birdman71]

It's a pretty difficult comparison to make. I do think Matt was uniquely skilled and immensely underrated. However, O'Mara is a much better fit for this team and system. Our guards are just so damn fast, and love to get out and run. It's nice to have big men that can effectively keep up with that pace. However, in a traditional half court offense, few compare to Matt's passing ability. That guy was the man.

I agree that Matt was immensely underrated. I fully believe that was related to his unusual physique. I remember writing him off the first time I saw him in uniform. Very happy I was wrong.

[XUFan09]

Just based on his athleticism I think he has a higher ceiling than Matt and I certainly hope so. Hopefully we won't have to slow down the offense with Sean as much as we did with Matt. Matt was a better shooter, but that can be improved. As long as Sean figures out how to knock down a 10 foot face up jumper that will be good.

Not really. When it comes to a player's ceiling, athleticism isn't everything, and O'Mara is still not athletic, so it's not like it's helping him too much, except on defense. Matt's skill level was off the charts, making O'Mara only look decent by comparison. A player can develop his skill level further, but by the time he gets to college, there are limits to how much he can improve. And this contrast in skill level holds true even before you get to passing, in which case it is no contest. Matt was the best passing big in the country, and it wasn't even close.

[xukeith]

Keith, I just see this guy completely different from you.

O'Mara could easily be better than many of the big men XU has had, from my point of view. Great skill set and feel for the game. He just needs time to play and work on some things. I see a way more talented big than JLove or KFreeze.

O'Mara had the unfortunate luck to be behind two bigs who had grown within the program and knew Mack's system better. Plus, we played a small forward at power forward, which clogged things up more. Farr and Reynolds weren't incredibly impressive their first two years either, but showed potential.

Of course O'Mara was green -- most bigs take longer to develop than guards.

I predict O'Mara will get the nod at the 5 before Gaston, who will likely start at the 4. What do I know? Nothing, obviously, but this makes sense to me.

I'm thrilled he's staying at Xavier.

I agree with your obvious history of O'Mara's career at X BUT the key word you use is "could". O'Mara "could" be better than many of the big men X has had (most have been average..it is the minority that have been great).
In 2 years he shows a lot of muscle and slowness of feet. Will he ever be as good as Reynolds or West? I doubt it. But I hope he stays out of foul trouble, consistently makes FTs, and is as good as Matt Stain on the low block. That is asking a lot.

Can he jump athletically to grab Farr like rebounds?
Can he play defense and block shots or shut players down?
We shall see in 2 more years.

[xukeith]

Not really. When it comes to a player's ceiling, athleticism isn't everything, and O'Mara is still not athletic, so it's not like it's helping him too much, except on defense. Matt's skill level was off the charts, making O'Mara only look decent by comparison. A player can develop his skill level further, but by the time he gets to college, there are limits to how much he can improve. And this contrast in skill level holds true even before you get to passing, in which case it is no contest. Matt was the best passing big in the country, and it wasn't even close.

100% agree.

[SemajParlor]

Matt's skill level was off the charts, making O'Mara only look decent by comparison.

I think people take for granted how skilled Stainbrook was. It was pretty unbelievable.

[XUFan09]

100% agree.
Yeah, your overall position on O'Mara is foolish. The fact that you agree with me on this point is just a coincidence I have to accept.

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[XUFan09]

I think people take for granted how skilled Stainbrook was. It was pretty unbelievable.
From every eye test, the dude simply didn't belong on a basketball court. Through his amazing level of skill, not only did he find a spot on the court at the high D1 level, he proved to be one of the best players in the Big East. It's just crazy to think about, and it's unfair to compare O'Mara to him.

Someone said earlier that O'Mara better fits Xavier's system. I kind of agree but would amend that a little. In his senior year, Stainbrook fit the system very well because of the personnel surrounding him. Dee was a steady game manager point guard who, while great at starting the fast break, otherwise player the game more methodically. Myles and Bluiett are both skilled players who excel in halfcourt sets. While the team did have to slow down a little for Stainbrook, generally they fit well together. With Sumner at point guard, Macura in a more expanded role, and a small-ball lineup more common, though, O'Mara definitely fits in better than Stainbrook would.

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[scoscox]

I agree with most of what you've said, but the Stain Train wasn't Wilt Chamberlain and I think Sean has all the capability in the world of matching or surpassing his production.

"Matt's skill level was off the charts, making O'Mara only look decent by comparison. A player can develop his skill level further, but by the time he gets to college, there are limits to how much he can improve."

I guess this quote is correct to some extent, but guys can definitely blossom over the course of their college career. Especially big guys. Lastly, we haven't even really seen Sean play anything resembling meaningful minutes. The only times he's played have been short, extremely productive, efficient minutes. I think he's been very promising and am excited to see him play longer than 5 minute stretches.

[LA Muskie]

Will he ever be as good as Reynolds or West?
The continuum between Reynolds and West is fairly HUGE, no?

[GoMuskies]

I mean, David West has only played 27,000 NBA minutes, scored 13,000 NBA points and grabbed 6,000 NBA rebounds. He and Jalen are practically identical players.

[sirthought]

Yeah, I have to laugh at that. Reynolds and West in the same listing just isn't right. I do think O'Mara has the potential to surpass Reynolds in terms of how effective he is on court. He needs the playing time to prove that, still.

I think we all had such high hopes for Reynolds because he can jump so well--and I'd enjoy having him another season--but I won't put him up there with the better big men in XU history. His skill set may have looked more impressive than players we've had over the years, but his lack of shooting and bone-headed errors really diminished how he could have dominated.

But every player has areas they can step up and show their value. It might not be the same just because you play the same position.

[LA Muskie]

Jalen's potential is legendary. And even that doesn't belong in the same breath as DFW.

[xu82]

I mean, David West has only played 27,000 NBA minutes, scored 13,000 NBA points and grabbed 6,000 NBA rebounds. He and Jalen are practically identical players.


It's very close, I bet Jalen has watched almost that much NBA ball.

[RealDeal]

Kenny Harvey or Byron Larkin?

[GoMuskies]

Mark Smydra or Brian Grant?

[drudy23]

O'Mara is a good role player, but if he's averaging 25 minutes, that's probably not good, and that's not a knock on Sean.

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread...did Farr or Jalen even come close to averaging 25 minutes?

[drudy23]

The continuum between Reynolds and West is fairly HUGE, no?

Yes

[xukeith]

Yeah, your overall position on O'Mara is foolish. The fact that you agree with me on this point is just a coincidence I have to accept.

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So personal!
My position on O'Mara needing to be consistent, athletic, and stay out of foul trouble is foolish?
Get real. He so far has not shown top D1 starter talent. We all hope it changes by November.

[xukeith]

Yeah, I have to laugh at that. Reynolds and West in the same listing just isn't right. I do think O'Mara has the potential to surpass Reynolds in terms of how effective he is on court. He needs the playing time to prove that, still.

I think we all had such high hopes for Reynolds because he can jump so well--and I'd enjoy having him another season--but I won't put him up there with the better big men in XU history. His skill set may have looked more impressive than players we've had over the years, but his lack of shooting and bone-headed errors really diminished how he could have dominated.

But every player has areas they can step up and show their value. It might not be the same just because you play the same position.

If O'Mara can score and rebound in NCAA tourney games like Reynolds, I will take it. Reynolds and West are no way the same BUT they both started a LOT for X and contributed which is to say they both are big men for X that were top 10%.

[ammtd34]

O'Mara is a good role player, but if he's averaging 25 minutes, that's probably not good, and that's not a knock on Sean.

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread...did Farr or Jalen even come close to averaging 25 minutes?

No, but Jalen also never averaged less than 6 fouls per 40 minutes. That played a role.

[Muskie]

Just so I understand.... when it was rumored that O'Mara might transfer there was general wailing and nashing of teeth about losing him, but now that he's not transferring there's a sentiment that he's not that good?

(I can't even wrap my head around the Jalen/West portion of this thread - Jalen is closer to Derrick Brown in NBA potential right?).

[GoMuskies]

It might, you know, not be the same people. Opinion here isn't homogeneous.

[Muskie]

It might, you know, not be the same people. Opinion here isn't homogeneous.

That's true. It's just weird how this thread played out... versus the other.

[XUFan09]

So personal!
My position on O'Mara needing to be consistent, athletic, and stay out of foul trouble is foolish?
Get real. He so far has not shown top D1 starter talent. We all hope it changes by November.

Lol not personal at all. You're just wrong.

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[XMuskieFTW]

My guess is we see about 20 minutes each from Gaston and Sean. They are such different players and can give our lineup a lot of variety.

I think Gaston will rebound at a fairly high rate, but will be limited in offensive ability. He will rely on a lot of offensive boards/putbacks for his points. I'm just hoping he has a decent post game and is good defensively.

Sean will be the opposite. He probably won't rebound at the highest rate for a big, but he will make up for that with his post moves. I'm just hoping he can improve defensively and be a decent passer, because he will see double teams in the post.

I think the contrast is very similar to when we had Matt and Jalen as our two main bigs; only differences are minutes will be more evenly split between the two and we won't see both on the floor at the same time.

[NY44]

Just so I understand.... when it was rumored that O'Mara might transfer there was general wailing and nashing of teeth about losing him, but now that he's not transferring there's a sentiment that he's not that good?

(I can't even wrap my head around the Jalen/West portion of this thread - Jalen is closer to Derrick Brown in NBA potential right?).

We really didn't have much depth in the front-court this year, and he still averaged single digit minutes. When Mack had to sub out Farr or Reynolds, he more often opted for 4 guards than O'Mara. That's telling for where he's currently at as a player. As we all know, we lost our 2 best big men this year, so O'Mara's stock rose. A player can be valuable and "not that good" at the same time.

He's got upside, but when it boils down to it, losing O'Mara would have been disastrous mainly because of our depth issues.

[Juice]

We really didn't have much depth in the front-court this year, and he still averaged single digit minutes. When Mack had to sub out Farr or Reynolds, he more often opted for 4 guards than O'Mara. That's telling for where he's currently at as a player. As we all know, we lost our 2 best big men this year, so O'Mara's stock rose. A player can be valuable and "not that good" at the same time.

He's got upside, but when it boils down to it, losing O'Mara would have been disastrous mainly because of our depth issues.

X played 4 out and 1 in even with Farr and Reynolds not in foul trouble and they'll play it again this year.

[markchal]

I think that made sense because of the depth we had at the SF position. I could see us playing a more traditional lineup this year, since we're really lacking depth in the backcourt. I imagine we'll still see a little Tre at the 4, but given how well Gates came on at the end of the year and his ability to defend quicker players and also extend defenses, we accomplish many of the same goals with him at the 4 but with maybe some added rebounding.

[XUFan09]

X played 4 out and 1 in even with Farr and Reynolds not in foul trouble and they'll play it again this year.
Yeah, the bigs' minutes were somewhat limited because of strategic benefits to playing Bluiett at the 4, particularly because he did a good job guarding a lot of 4s. Then, Gates proved to offer a lot of the same benefits as Bluiett, earning him more minutes as the season went on. Despite being the third traditional big, though, O'Mara still got some minutes. He got those minutes even when Farr and Reynolds were not in foul trouble and could have taken them.

Also, where does this claim for a supposed lack of frontcourt depth come from? Xavier played a four-man bigs rotation, just like they always do, even though there was less need for it compared to past seasons when they put two traditional bigs out there most of the time. Then, they had Makinde London as someone good enough to be the fourth man in the rotation if someone else went down. Lack of frontcourt depth? That's five guys for about 55 minutes needed out of traditional bigs (accounting for the 1-3-1's use of two bigs).

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[scoscox]

We really didn't have much depth in the front-court this year, and he still averaged single digit minutes. When Mack had to sub out Farr or Reynolds, he more often opted for 4 guards than O'Mara. That's telling for where he's currently at as a player. As we all know, we lost our 2 best big men this year, so O'Mara's stock rose. A player can be valuable and "not that good" at the same time.

He's got upside, but when it boils down to it, losing O'Mara would have been disastrous mainly because of our depth issues.

Had Farr, Reynolds, O'Mara and Gates. Plenty of depth. Especially your back-up is playing 20 minutes a game. Wasn't hard to see why Sean didn't get a ton of minutes. He opted for 4 guards even with Reynolds or Farr in the game.

[casualfan]

I liked the 4 guard lineup a lot, but i wish it would have been mixed up throughout the year a bit more and i think that would have happened had Chris not felt like there was limited depth behind Jimmy and Jalen.

When Trevon was on the 4 guard lineup was great, mostly because whatever he gave up in defense and rebounding he more than made up for with his offensive skill.

The problems happened when Trevon had a bad offensive game.

There is a pretty strong correlation between Trevon having a bad game and us losing:

Villanova: 2-9 shooting, 2 rebounds.
Creighton: 2-10 shooting, 4 total points
Wisconsin: 3-11 shooting, 7 points.

The exceptions, at least offensively were the two Seton Hall losses and Georgetown where he put up good point totals despite just ok shooting numbers.

But beyond just offense looking at the box score of some of those games is interesting:

We got beat on the glass against Georgetown
Against Seton Hall both times they had bigs have big games (rodriguez and delgado respectively)
And of course against wisconsin Ethan Happ and Vito Brown had big games and we got beat on the glass


It certainly didn't happen often, but when we got beat it was usually the other team's bigs doing major damage in the scoring and rebounding column.

It would have been nice to have a third effective big so that when Trevon was struggling offensively or we were being beaten in the post by an opposing big we could go to a more traditional lineup with Sean at the 5 and either Jalen or Jimmy at the 4.

I still think Sean will be a very good player here, but there were definitely opportunities for him to get more minutes last year that forever reason did not come to fruition.

[paulxu]

Just for the heck of it, I'd like to see a lineup one time of:
Sumner
Macura
Bluiett
Gates
A Big

Think it would be fun to watch.

[Musketeer]

Just for the heck of it, I'd like to see a lineup one time of:
Sumner
Macura
Bluiett
Gates
A Big

Think it would be fun to watch.

im sure you will see that next year at some points in most games.

[XUFan09]

I liked the 4 guard lineup a lot, but i wish it would have been mixed up throughout the year a bit more and i think that would have happened had Chris not felt like there was limited depth behind Jimmy and Jalen.

When Trevon was on the 4 guard lineup was great, mostly because whatever he gave up in defense and rebounding he more than made up for with his offensive skill.

The problems happened when Trevon had a bad offensive game.

There is a pretty strong correlation between Trevon having a bad game and us losing:

Villanova: 2-9 shooting, 2 rebounds.
Creighton: 2-10 shooting, 4 total points
Wisconsin: 3-11 shooting, 7 points.

The exceptions, at least offensively were the two Seton Hall losses and Georgetown where he put up good point totals despite just ok shooting numbers.

But beyond just offense looking at the box score of some of those games is interesting:

We got beat on the glass against Georgetown
Against Seton Hall both times they had bigs have big games (rodriguez and delgado respectively)
And of course against wisconsin Ethan Happ and Vito Brown had big games and we got beat on the glass


It certainly didn't happen often, but when we got beat it was usually the other team's bigs doing major damage in the scoring and rebounding column.

It would have been nice to have a third effective big so that when Trevon was struggling offensively or we were being beaten in the post by an opposing big we could go to a more traditional lineup with Sean at the 5 and either Jalen or Jimmy at the 4.

I still think Sean will be a very good player here, but there were definitely opportunities for him to get more minutes last year that forever reason did not come to fruition.
I think a lot of this correlation comes back to the issue that more generally our best player had a bad game, not that the guy at the 4 had a bad game.

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[NY44]

X played 4 out and 1 in even with Farr and Reynolds not in foul trouble and they'll play it again this year.

Clearly I took that as less of a choice, and more of a necessity than you did. We were in trouble when either one of them was in foul trouble. I assumed Mack kept them staggered to keep them out of foul trouble.

The main point still stands that we lack proven depth going into this year. Losing O'Mara would have been devastating in that regard. We lost about 40 MIN, 14 RPG, and 20 PPG.

[XUFan09]

Clearly I took that as less of a choice, and more of a necessity than you did. We were in trouble when either one of them was in foul trouble. I assumed Mack kept them staggered to keep them out of foul trouble.

The main point still stands that we lack proven depth going into this year. Losing O'Mara would have been devastating in that regard. We lost about 40 MIN, 14 RPG, and 20 PPG.
That's not why he kept them staggered. On the negative side, having one of the traditional bigs at the 4 created defensive issues in man-to-man against non-traditional bigs. On the positive side, having Bluiett (or Gates) at the 4 stretched the floor and created mismatches.

Agreed on the second paragraph.

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[Xavier]

(I can't even wrap my head around the Jalen/West portion of this thread - Jalen is closer to Derrick Brown in NBA potential right?).

I guess he is closer to Brown in the fact that Brown only played 3 years in the NBA. Really, though, Jalen won't play in the NBA at all. Jalen to West is one of the weirdest/worst comparisons I've seen here. Even with a few posters comparing Redford to JP, which is also pretty bad. I'd imagine whoever made the comparison is too young to really remember DWest at Xavier.

[markchal]

The main point still stands that we lack proven depth going into this year. Losing O'Mara would have been devastating in that regard. We lost about 40 MIN, 14 RPG, and 20 PPG.

I think our frontcourt depth is much better going into this season than it was going into last. We were replacing a huge contributor in Stainbrook and no one saw Farr playing the way he did last season. I'm most concerned about replacing our rebounding, but looking at the two forward positions, we return an All-American in Tre at the 4, a very talented player in Gates, a very effective scorer in O'Mara, and a transfer who put up good numbers in a smaller conference and is supposedly the strongest player on the team. That's a lot more than most bring to the table. The backcourt concerns me, especially if we Tre stays at the 4, and Macura takes Remy's spot in the starting lineup. I really hope Goodin is ready to go from day 1.

[MauriceX]

O'Mara is a good role player, but if he's averaging 25 minutes, that's probably not good, and that's not a knock on Sean.

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread...did Farr or Jalen even come close to averaging 25 minutes?

Farr and Jalen didn't average 25 minutes (about 20 minutes each) but generally speaking, we have had big guys average 25+ minutes fairly regularly in the past. (Stainbrook, Frease, Love, Isaiah Philmore, Travis Taylor, Andre Walker, and Jamel McLean all averaged 24+.)

[scoscox]

I guess he is closer to Brown in the fact that Brown only played 3 years in the NBA. Really, though, Jalen won't play in the NBA at all. Jalen to West is one of the weirdest/worst comparisons I've seen here. Even with a few posters comparing Redford to JP, which is also pretty bad. I'd imagine whoever made the comparison is too young to really remember DWest at Xavier.

Derrick Brown consistently produced and made good on his potential far more than Jalen, but atleast a more reasonable comparison. Comparing Jalen and a National Player of the Year was pretty absurd other than the fact that they are both really jacked.

[xukeith]

Here is the actual quote:

In 2 years he shows a lot of muscle and slowness of feet. Will he ever be as good as Reynolds or West?

Nowhere saying Jalen was close to West.

Both started and contributed to the team. Both were good offensively.
West was the best player ever to wear a X jersey.

Can O'Mara start? Can he rebound consistently and be a threat offensively (average at least 8 points)?
Or is Sean closer to Will Caudle?

[scoscox]

I liked the 4 guard lineup a lot, but i wish it would have been mixed up throughout the year a bit more and i think that would have happened had Chris not felt like there was limited depth behind Jimmy and Jalen.

When Trevon was on the 4 guard lineup was great, mostly because whatever he gave up in defense and rebounding he more than made up for with his offensive skill.

The problems happened when Trevon had a bad offensive game.

There is a pretty strong correlation between Trevon having a bad game and us losing:

Villanova: 2-9 shooting, 2 rebounds.
Creighton: 2-10 shooting, 4 total points
Wisconsin: 3-11 shooting, 7 points.

The exceptions, at least offensively were the two Seton Hall losses and Georgetown where he put up good point totals despite just ok shooting numbers.

But beyond just offense looking at the box score of some of those games is interesting:

We got beat on the glass against Georgetown
Against Seton Hall both times they had bigs have big games (rodriguez and delgado respectively)
And of course against wisconsin Ethan Happ and Vito Brown had big games and we got beat on the glass


It certainly didn't happen often, but when we got beat it was usually the other team's bigs doing major damage in the scoring and rebounding column.

It would have been nice to have a third effective big so that when Trevon was struggling offensively or we were being beaten in the post by an opposing big we could go to a more traditional lineup with Sean at the 5 and either Jalen or Jimmy at the 4.

I still think Sean will be a very good player here, but there were definitely opportunities for him to get more minutes last year that forever reason did not come to fruition.

Well, we only lost 5 games, so it's hard to really nail down a definitive reason for losing. The fact that we got outrebounded a total of 3 times all year should tell you something about the frontcourt. It stands to reason that when we weren't able to do so, we lost the game. I don't think that indicates a lack of depth. Quite the opposite actually with it happening so rarely. We also played Kaiser at the 4 quite a bit down the stretch and while I think Chris likes Sean and has said so multiple times, he was obviously more comfortable playing James and Jalen as much as possible. I don't think any of the team's struggles during the year were a result of Sean not contributing. On the contrary, he was very effective when he played.

Honestly, I just don't think Chris likes playing the traditional line-up of a legitimate center and power forward and I don't necessarily disagree. It seems to be effective in all levels of basketball at the moment.

[XMuskieFTW]

Here is the actual quote:

In 2 years he shows a lot of muscle and slowness of feet. Will he ever be as good as Reynolds or West?

Nowhere saying Jalen was close to West.

Both started and contributed to the team. Both were good offensively.
West was the best player ever to wear a X jersey.

Can O'Mara start? Can he rebound consistently and be a threat offensively (average at least 8 points)?
Or is Sean closer to Will Caudle?

Was Jalen actually good offensively though? He shot about 98% on dunks and probably like 25-30% on everything else. He had to have shot about 4% on 3 foot hook shots.

Sean was 4th on the team in points per minute so I really don't see his offense as a question at all. His rebounding rate was a bit low. 10.86 per 40 compared to 15.14 from Farr and 13.26 from Reynolds. I think we will see Sean improve this to 12 or 13 which will be fine.

I don't think it matters if he starts or not. Both him and Gaston can probably expect 18-22 minutes next season. If he plays 20 minutes, his past years rates would see him at 9.1/5.4. I think he will improve with another offseason and average around 10/6

[XUFan09]

Here is the actual quote:

In 2 years he shows a lot of muscle and slowness of feet. Will he ever be as good as Reynolds or West?

Nowhere saying Jalen was close to West.

Both started and contributed to the team. Both were good offensively.
West was the best player ever to wear a X jersey.

Can O'Mara start? Can he rebound consistently and be a threat offensively (average at least 8 points)?
Or is Sean closer to Will Caudle?
If O'Mara has the exact same efficiency and usage rate next year, meaning no improvement and no increased role (big assumptions), he would average 8.4 points per game with playing time expanded out to 20 minutes per game. So, even with no major changes, just a moderate improvement and a moderately increased role, he's already averaging nearly double digit points per game.

By the way, O'Mara's rebounding rates were just a step below Stainbrook's this past year. Considering that Stainbrook was one of the better rebounders in the conference in his two years here, I'd say that's a pretty good mark to fall close too.

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[XUFan09]

Was Jalen actually good offensively though? He shot about 98% on dunks and probably like 25-30% on everything else. He had to have shot about 4% on 3 foot hook shots.

Sean was 4th on the team in points per minute so I really don't see his offense as a question at all. His rebounding rate was a bit low. 10.86 per 40 compared to 15.14 from Farr and 13.26 from Reynolds. I think we will see Sean improve this to 12 or 13 which will be fine.

I don't think it matters if he starts or not. Both him and Gaston can probably expect 18-22 minutes next season. If he plays 20 minutes, his past years rates would see him at 9.1/5.4. I think he will improve with another offseason and average around 10/6
I don't think it's fair to compare O'Mara's rebounding to Farr and Reynolds', unless it's to note that there will be a drop-off this year (which is true). Basketball Reference has tracked rebounding rates since the 2008-2009 season. In that time span, Farr is the Big East's best rebounder by a long shot (coming in the top 20 nationally too) and Reynolds comes in at third in the Big East. Gaston should be a really good rebounder, but Xavier just lost perhaps the best rebounding duo it has ever had.

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[XMuskieFTW]

I don't think it's fair to compare O'Mara's rebounding to Farr and Reynolds', unless it's to note that there will be a drop-off this year (which is true). Basketball Reference has tracked rebounding rates since the 2008-2009 season. In that time span, Farr is the Big East's best rebounder by a long shot (coming in the top 20 nationally too) and Reynolds comes in at third in the Big East. Gaston should be a really good rebounder, but Xavier just lost perhaps the best rebounding duo it has ever had.

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Yea I don't think it fair to compare them either. Was just throwing out the numbers of our bigs. Also I'm curious what percentage of Sean's minutes were played when we had two bigs in the zone. Whenever he played with Jalen or Farr he was not the primary rebounder. His role was more to clear space for Jalen and James to get the boards. I think being the guy in the game expected to get the rebound every time will translate a better per 40 rate next year.

I'm expecting to see Gaston to average about 7 rebounds a game and Sean around 6 if they each play around 20 minutes. I also think Kaiser and JP will show increased rebounding numbers next year like Bluiett did this past season.

[xukeith]

If O'Mara has the exact same efficiency and usage rate next year, meaning no improvement and no increased role (big assumptions), he would average 8.4 points per game with playing time expanded out to 20 minutes per game. So, even with no major changes, just a moderate improvement and a moderately increased role, he's already averaging nearly double digit points per game.

By the way, O'Mara's rebounding rates were just a step below Stainbrook's this past year. Considering that Stainbrook was one of the better rebounders in the conference in his two years here, I'd say that's a pretty good mark to fall close too.

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TONS of assumptions. I wil believe it when I see an 8.5 ppg and rebounding average pg better than Stain. Get real. Put all hopes in expanding statistics and you will get burnt.

[XUFan09]

TONS of assumptions. I wil believe it when I see an 8.5 ppg and rebounding average pg better than Stain. Get real. Put all hopes in expanding statistics and you will get burnt.
Lol no. Highly reasonable assumptions. There is a sufficient sample size to consider his production a close approximation of his true ability as a sophomore. After that, I merely assume that he doesn't regress from his sophomore to his junior year. Hardly an outlandish assumption for any player; the vast majority stay the same or improve, unless they previously benefitted from the presence of another player who is now gone (e.g. Reynolds after Stainbrook graduated). And that's why expanding statistics within this context is actually a highly effective means of establishing a floor for future production when minutes increase for a player. The exception (besides the ones like Reynolds) is if their usage rate significantly increases, as their efficiency might decrease, but 1) this is unlikely to happen to O'Mara, who was already at a good usage rate, and 2) the increased usage rate would help ensure he meets your arbitrary threshold of 8ppg anyway.

Also, I never said his rebounding rate was better than Stain's. In fact, I explicitly said the exact opposite, that it was a step below Stain's but Stain was a really good rebounder. I don't know where you're getting this idea of a better rebounding average for O'Mara. If that's your threshold for being satisfied with O'Mara's production, you're foolish.

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[scoscox]

TONS of assumptions. I wil believe it when I see an 8.5 ppg and rebounding average pg better than Stain. Get real. Put all hopes in expanding statistics and you will get burnt.

Wouldn't be surprised if Sean put up 8.5 and 6.9. Seems pretty reasonable.

[GIMMFD]

Wouldn't be surprised if Sean put up 8.5 and 6.9. Seems pretty reasonable.

Agreed, I could definitely see him do that with his expanded role next season, he's got good fundamentals, I think he's going to be just fine. Let's just hope for more development work in the off-season

[xukeith]

Wouldn't be surprised if Sean put up 8.5 and 6.9. Seems pretty reasonable.

I would LOVE that!!! Minutes ? 20-24. Fouls? 3-5. Dunks? 1.5. FT %? 75%!

[scoscox]

I would LOVE that!!! Minutes ? 20-24. Fouls? 3-5. Dunks? 1.5. FT %? 75%!

I doubt he shoots that well from the line, but 8.5, 6.9 is not asking for a whole lot. I would hope he rebounds more and possibly scores more.

[SC in DC]

West was one of the best--if not the best, but Larkin and Thomas are definitely in the conversation for the BEST!

[mistabeecee41]

Im not so sure OMara starts. I would say him and Gaston pretty much split time at the 5 but don't see the court at the same time very often (Like Farr and Reynolds). I also feel like Tyrique Jones is being overlooked for front court minutes. He's an athletic junk yard dog type, who are generally the kind of freshmen bigs who are able to contribute early on.

[XUFan09]

Im not so sure OMara starts. I would say him and Gaston pretty much split time at the 5 but don't see the court at the same time very often (Like Farr and Reynolds). I also feel like Tyrique Jones is being overlooked for front court minutes. He's an athletic junk yard dog type, who are generally the kind of freshmen bigs who are able to contribute early on.
Like Farr and Reynolds, they'll probably see the court together for a few minutes per game in the 1-3-1, but otherwise you're right. It wouldn't surprise me if Jones took a redshirt.

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[Musketeer]

If O'Mara gets 18-20 minutes per game, i would be surprised if he doesn't score at least 8 ppg. He's very efficient in the post.

[Thor in 204]

I think quite a few posters seem to under-appreciate Sean O'Mara's athleticism in terms of footwork for rebounding and quickness of jumping. I think he will show us that he can block shots in close play under the basket. He just needs more game time experience. He will make more space for younger bigs to operate, like Matt Stainbrook did for Jalen Reynolds. He will be double-teamed more as the season goes on because he will be able to score one-on-one against most opposing bigs in the paint. He'll show himself to be one of the toughest 5s Xavier has had in recent years.

[xudash]

I think quite a few posters seem to under-appreciate Sean O'Mara's athleticism in terms of footwork for rebounding and quickness of jumping. I think he will show us that he can block shots in close play under the basket. He just needs more game time experience. He will make more space for younger bigs to operate, like Matt Stainbrook did for Jalen Reynolds. He will be double-teamed more as the season goes on because he will be able to score one-on-one against most opposing bigs in the paint. He'll show himself to be one of the toughest 5s Xavier has had in recent years.

Thank you.

I believe his attitude and experience as a football player will serve him well as well.

[xukeith]

Is the Pete Newell camp in Hawaii still available for big men?
It did wonders for Jason Love.
If O'Mara can produce half of what Love did during his senior year, it will be one amazing season.
LOVE:


had nine double-doubles as a senior, including 11 points and 15 rebounds against Kansas State in the NCAA Tournament Regional Semifinal on March 25...had 17 points and 10 rebounds against Dayton in the A-10 Tournament on March 12...earned Atlantic 10 Co-Player of the Week honors after scoring 20 points, hitting 9-of-12 from the field, and grabbing 10 rebounds in the win on Feb. 13 at Florida...recorded 25 double-figure scoring games as a senior...had 14 points, eight rebounds and two blocks in the Pitt win in the NCAA Tournament...had 16 points and nine rebounds in the Richmond win on Feb. 28...posted a career-high tying 21-point, nine-rebound game at Saint Louis on Feb. 24 that included 15 points in the second half...scored 17 points, hitting 8-of-9 from the field, to go with nine rebounds against Duquesne on Jan. 28...had 16 points at Temple on Jan. 20, hitting all six shots from the field, to go with seven rebounds...had a 19-point, 13-rebound effort at George Washington that included 12 points and 12 rebounds in the second half...career-high tying totals in rebounds (19) and blocks (5) against Cincinnati; had five of XU's final six points in the second overtime...career-high 21 points on 9-of-11 shooting, a career-high 19 rebounds and five blocks against Marquette on Nov. 26.

XAVIER'S ALL-TIME WINS LEADER... Xavier recorded a 108-33 (.766) record during his career...the 108 wins broke the school record of 103, which was set by 2009 XU graduate B.J. Raymond...Xavier teams during his career won eight NCAA Tournament games, which is the XU school record for a player.

TEAM LEADER... Led the team in rebounding at 8.7 rpg. (fourth in the Atlantic 10), including his career-high 19-rebound games against Cincinnati and Marquette and 15 against Kansas State in the NCAA Tournament...also led the team in blocks at 1.4 bpg. (tied for ninth in the A-10), including a career-high six in the win over Dayton on Jan. 16...third on the team in scoring at 11.8 ppg... started for XU 91 times in his last three seasons, including the last 70 games.

[scoscox]

If he only puts up half of what Jason Love did I'd be disappointed. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here either. On another note, when will we know exactly if Trevon is coming back?

[GIMMFD]

If he only puts up half of what Jason Love did I'd be disappointed. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here either. On another note, when will we know exactly if Trevon is coming back?

Agreed, 6ppg and 5rbg isn't really getting it done, and I want to say end of May, but I for one have zero doubt that he should be and will be back.

[XUFan09]

If he only puts up half of what Jason Love did I'd be disappointed. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here either. On another note, when will we know exactly if Trevon is coming back?
Yeah, it's like Jason Love was an All-American or something lol. I mean, I loved Jason Love, but come on.

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[Thor in 204]

If he only puts up half of what Jason Love did I'd be disappointed. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here either. On another note, when will we know exactly if Trevon is coming back?

If my memory is correct, he has until May 15 to decide.

[bobbiemcgee]

maybe sooner:

Some more guys who have not been invited to combine: V.J. Beachem, Kaleb Tarczewski, Maurice Watson, Trevon Bluiett, Peter Jok
- Goodman

[paulxu]

What about Jalen?

[XUFan09]

What about Jalen?
TBD?

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[bobbiemcgee]

List so far:

http://fanbuzz.rare.us/story/jeff-goodman-releases-mostly-complete-nba-combine-invite-list/

[xukeith]

Jason Love's senior year was pretty awesome. Not NBA but if O'Mara can rebound and score like him, AWESOME! Not Will Caudle or Anthony Coleman, nor Obi Harris.