Murders in Piketon OH

[nuts4xu]

This story is tragic, sad, and fascinating at the same time. I can't imagine the pain and anguish this family must be feeling, but you have to wonder what type of activities results in the assassination of a big segment of their family. So far I have heard about the commercial marijuana grow system that was found, cock fighting roosters present on the scene, but no guns or evidence of big, loud, scary dogs. Every big time drug dealer owns some crazy rabid rottweilers or pit bulls. These people were shot to death in their sleep, and never saw it coming nor did they have any warning.

The pre-planned murder of 8 people from one family, in what sounds like 3 or 4 different locations of a rural farm town, is the type of stuff you see in movies. Typically if you see a situation like this, their is one single crazy gun man who turns the gun on himself. There was no gunman found among the dead, and the Ohio AG reports the killers took great measures to ensure cover evidence.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess it the family was killed as retaliation for a "business" deal gone bad. While they found a bunch of week, I am also guessing another substance like meth was involved.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/04/25/piketon-shooting-murder-eight-dead/83492210/

[SemajParlor]

Further proof that this was a retaliation kill / killed by a competitor - infant lives were spared. Even before the drug connection, the minute I saw that detail it became clear that this wasn't a crazed gunman or mentally unstable family member that went on a killing spree.

[nuts4xu]

Further proof that this was a retaliation kill / killed by a competitor - infant lives were spared. Even before the drug connection, the minute I saw that detail it became clear that this wasn't a crazed gunman or mentally unstable family member that went on a killing spree.

Yes they spared a 4 day old, 6 month old, and 3 year old. Which absolutely indicates they were calculated killings.

[paulxu]

If this was in Kentucky, it would sound like an episode of Justified.

[JTG]

If this was in Kentucky, it would sound like an episode of Justified.

That's what I said to my wife when I read the story, sounds like the drug family in Justified. Better call Rayland Givens.

[Cheesehead]

As soon as I saw the headline, I said to myself, '"This is about drugs". Not surprised at all by the marijuana operation. It does remind me of a Justified episode. I feel bad for the kids but this is what can happen when a family delves into illegal activities.

[SemajParlor]

To quote the great Jimmy McNulty:

"That's what I don't get about the drug thing. Why can't you sell the shit and walk the fuck away? You know what I mean? Everything else in this country gets sold without people shooting each other behind it."

[Juice]

To quote the great Jimmy McNulty:

"That's what I don't get about the drug thing. Why can't you sell the shit and walk the fuck away? You know what I mean? Everything else in this country gets sold without people shooting each other behind it."

Competition and because some people know that people that have grow operations have cash because they can't put it in banks.

[SemajParlor]

Competition and because some people know that people that have grow operations have cash because they can't put it in banks.

True, but competition exists everywhere. The bizarre thing is that most drug related violence occurs over gains that drastically pale in comparison to any legitimate marketplace.

[JTG]

To quote the great Jimmy McNulty:

"That's what I don't get about the drug thing. Why can't you sell the shit and walk the fuck away? You know what I mean? Everything else in this country gets sold without people shooting each other behind it."

Maybe it's because these are usually stupid asses that can't make an honest living.

[XUFan09]

When people can't rely on the force of law of the government to protect them and their assets from wrongdoing, they turn to their own means of force. Then it becomes a back-and-forth vicious cycle.

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[SemajParlor]

Maybe it's because these are usually stupid asses that can't make an honest living.



When people can't rely on the force of law of the government to protect them and their assets from wrongdoing, they turn to their own means of force. Then it becomes a back-and-forth vicious cycle.
.
Yeah, I like the second guy's answer better.

[JTG]

When people can't rely on the force of law of the government to protect them and their assets from wrongdoing, they turn to their own means of force. Then it becomes a back-and-forth vicious cycle.

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So the govt is supposed to protect one dope seller from another ? That's bullshit. Probably 2 families of dimwits fighting over drug territory.

[Juice]

True, but competition exists everywhere. The bizarre thing is that most drug related violence occurs over gains that drastically pale in comparison to any legitimate marketplace.

But it's immoral people involved in an immoral business. Normal rules and laws don't apply.

[Juice]

So the govt is supposed to protect one dope seller from another ? That's bullshit. Probably 2 families of dimwits fighting over drug territory.

It happens all the time. Drug dealers are often indicted for shootings, robberies, burglaries, etc. against other drug dealers. The problem is that the "victims" never show to testify for various reasons.

[XUFan09]

So the govt is supposed to protect one dope seller from another ? That's bullshit. Probably 2 families of dimwits fighting over drug territory.
Your interpretation doesn't logically follow from what I said. I explained why drug dealers do what they do, without the moralistic (and often inaccurate) twist that you want to include. Nowhere did I say that they SHOULD receive the force of the law as protection. All that matters is that they don't when it comes to their assets, which logically leads them to violence as a means of self-preservation.

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[SemajParlor]

But it's immoral people involved in an immoral business. Normal rules and laws don't apply.


Yet there are plenty of immoral people involved in immoral yet legal business. And normal rules do apply in those marketplaces, generally speaking. This goes back to the point about reliance on the force of the law.

I'm not advocating for the legalization of drugs - I just think that the reasoning for why there is so much violence surrounding drug trafficking goes beyond "people selling drugs are stupid and stupid people kill other stupid people."

[xu82]

Yet there are plenty of immoral people involved in immoral yet legal business. And normal rules do apply in those marketplaces, generally speaking. This goes back to the point about reliance on the force of the law.

I'm not advocating for the legalization of drugs - I just think that the reasoning for why there is so much violence surrounding drug trafficking goes beyond "people selling drugs are stupid and stupid people kill other stupid people."

Immoral yet legal activity allows for settling grievances through proper channels.

Immoral and illegal and it's the Wild, Wild West. What are you going to do? Call the police and explain your complaint: "you see officer, I was selling crack on this corner over here......" Nothing after that is going to get you what you're hoping for. Some people just grow up in ways that it's hard NOT to get involved in that activity. Sad, but true.

[NY44]

Yet there are plenty of immoral people involved in immoral yet legal business. And normal rules do apply in those marketplaces, generally speaking. This goes back to the point about reliance on the force of the law.

I'm not advocating for the legalization of drugs - I just think that the reasoning for why there is so much violence surrounding drug trafficking goes beyond "people selling drugs are stupid and stupid people kill other stupid people."

Good points all around, but I'd say it's a lot more about the mindset of someone who's willing to make their living illegally. These are people accustomed to doing whatever it takes to succeed and get what they want. I'm sure there are thousands of exceptions, but consequences and boundaries are probably after thoughts when it comes to their business. Except, of course, for the Sunday morning truce.

On a Sunday morning... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvfWEXU-tc)

[XUFan09]

Good points all around, but I'd say it's a lot more about the mindset of someone who's willing to make their living illegally. These are people accustomed to doing whatever it takes to succeed and get what they want. I'm sure there are thousands of exceptions, but consequences and boundaries are probably after thoughts when it comes to their business. Except, of course, for the Sunday morning truce.

On a Sunday morning... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvfWEXU-tc)
I knew it would be the Wire lol.

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[SemajParlor]

Immoral yet legal activity allows for settling grievances through proper channels.

Immoral and illegal and it's the Wild, Wild West. What are you going to do? Call the police and explain your complaint: "you see officer, I was selling crack on this corner over here......" Nothing after that is going to get you what you're hoping for. Some people just grow up in ways that it's hard NOT to get involved in that activity. Sad, but true.

Yes exactly my point. I believe we are saying the same thing.

[SemajParlor]

Good points all around, but I'd say it's a lot more about the mindset of someone who's willing to make their living illegally. These are people accustomed to doing whatever it takes to succeed and get what they want. I'm sure there are thousands of exceptions, but consequences and boundaries are probably after thoughts when it comes to their business. Except, of course, for the Sunday morning truce.

On a Sunday morning... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvfWEXU-tc)

Yes I agree to an extent. However, I'd argue that they are accustomed to do so because due to it being illegal, there's no alternative measure to preserve their business. I'm not sympathizing with murderous drug dealers, I just think the variable to look at is legality. Some believe the variable is the type of people doing it. In all honesty, it's probably a little bit of both.

[GoMuskies]

Well, the type of people doing is likely a result of the legality issue.

[xu82]

It's not a matter of stupidity (as was referred to). Ignorance? Quite possibly. Two different things.

[outsideobserver11]

Once the mexican drug cartel talk started I can only think of Gus Fring now.

[bobbiemcgee]

Immoral yet legal activity allows for settling grievances through proper channels.
So does Festivus.

[xu82]

So does Festivus.

Nothing says settling grievances or Holiday like Fesivus! 2060

[SemajParlor]

I knew it would be the Wire lol.

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The ironic thing about bringing in the Wire is that the main message of the entire series is exactly this discussion we are having. From Stringer's downfall to Carcetti's political success. It's all there.

[NY44]

Yes I agree to an extent. However, I'd argue that they are accustomed to do so because due to it being illegal, there's no alternative measure to preserve their business. I'm not sympathizing with murderous drug dealers, I just think the variable to look at is legality. Some believe the variable is the type of people doing it. In all honesty, it's probably a little bit of both.

I agree with that, but also think you're idealizing what the world would look like if drugs and drug dealing were legal.

I'd presume that drug dealers as a whole, and especially those portrayed in The Wire, are in the trade because they're marginalized/on the fringe of society. They lack education and opportunity. If you make drugs widely legal, there will be investment, regulation, and corporations as a result. I could be wrong, but I doubt current illegal pot dealers, growers, etc. will be venturing into the legal drug trade, and that there will always be people making their living largely outside the law.

[SemajParlor]

I agree with that, but also think you're idealizing what the world would look like if drugs and drug dealing were legal.

I'd presume that drug dealers as a whole, and especially those portrayed in The Wire, are in the trade because they're marginalized/on the fringe of society. They lack education and opportunity. If you make drugs widely legal, there will be investment, regulation, and corporations as a result. I could be wrong, but I doubt current illegal pot dealers, growers, etc. will be venturing into the legal drug trade, and that there will always be people making their living largely outside the law.

Fair points, I actually agree with everything you said. Again, I'm not advocating for a lawless and legal drug society, and of course there are bad people that will kill no matter what.

[NY44]

Fair points, I actually agree with everything you said. Again, I'm not advocating for a lawless and legal drug society, and of course there are bad people that will kill no matter what.

And the incarceration rate would plummet. I guess my biggest question is what happens to those who made their living drug dealing? Maybe Portugal has the answer.