2016-17 Top 25

[EastCoastXman]

Just watching Jon Rothstein on CBS College Sports on pre game show. His 2016-17 top 25 has Villanova at 2 and Xavier at #4. No sneaking up on anyone next year. Need to live up to expectations.

[Xville]

Duke and UK are going to be so freaking loaded, that even at 4 we might be sneaking up on people. I think next year will be just like last year in that there are going to be 5-6 teams that will separate themselves from the rest of the pack. I think if x gets better defensively and finds a penetrator, that they can be one of those 5 next year. Duke especially though is going to be disgusting.

[bobbiemcgee]

I think if x gets better defensively and finds a penetrator...

does Dez still have eligibility?

[Xavier]

I'm assuming this is also dependent on JR coming back. If he does X will easily be a top 10 team to start the year.

[JTG]

No JR no top 25.

[Muncie]

No JR no top 25.

I don't believe that, I think without Jalen we are still top ten

[GIMMFD]

I don't believe that, I think without Jalen we are still top ten

I say top 20, we don't get much respect, so I highly doubt they put us in the top 10, because well.. that's how it goes.

[Xavier]

Yeah, not top 10. Probably late teens. That's understandable I think.

[Xville]

Yeah though I think we are probably top 10 to start the year next year, I'd be absolutely shocked to see us be ranked any higher than 20 in preseason polls.

[xu82]

Somewhere in the teens would be fine with me. Even I have to wonder about #4. More importantly, let's go on a run in March! (And April even!) We had a young team last year.

[paulxu]

#11

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15123601/duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-college-basketball-top-25-2016-2017

[drudy23]

We lose Jalen, and we have some unproven commodities in the post. Losing Jalen would hurt the balance of our squad.

[GoMuskies]

4 ACCs in the top 7. Not shabby. Buick >Lexus again? That's a trend I can get behind.

Even a token UC sighting. Wow.

[markchal]

Nice to turn the page to next season but as others here noted, Duke and KY are so stacked next year. Really feels like we blew our best shot at a FF with as balanced/talented as we were this year combined with the parity in mbb this season. Still bitter, but at least everyone is done now.

[nasdadjr]

Cbs has X at 5 while including JR gone. I like JR but if he goes Gaston definitely replaces what he brought and I think while O'mara has slower feet; that he is a much better finisher and more polished post player than JR. He just seems to have more awareness and can go left or right while JR can only go left.

[XUGRAD80]

Even without JR, X will have 3 starters and the league 6th man of the year back. Combine that with Gates and O'Mara, and a D1 transfer with good stats in the front court. Top 20 for sure, possibly higher.

Other schools have players graduate, transfer, or otherwise leave every year, too. It's not like any of the others have their whole roster coming back intact.

[Masterofreality]

Just watching Jon Rothstein on CBS College Sports on pre game show. His 2016-17 top 25 has Villanova at 2 and Xavier at #4. No sneaking up on anyone next year. Need to live up to expectations.

Freaking Rothstein is doubling down again on SucKS being in the Top 20 next year. This after he had picked them to be in the Top 15 this year and I called him out on Twitter telling him that the Borecats couldn't score. SucKS loses their two best bigs and their point guard. What? Is Gary Clark going to go off for 40 every night and YTG all of a sudden have a miraculous dream that shows him an offensive schematic?

Unbelievable.

[ammtd34]

I've seen X at 4, 5, 11, and 15 in four different polls. We're going to be good.

[xuwin]

We lose Jalen, and we have some unproven commodities in the post. Losing Jalen would hurt the balance of our squad.

Last year we lost Stainbrook who was much more productive than Jalen and overcame it very well. You adjust your style to the talent you have.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm assuming this is also dependent on JR coming back.

Actually it isn't. On both CBS (#5) and Yahoo (#7) they mention that Reynolds is likely gone.

[Milhouse]

Granted its limited touches...but O'Mara is a better back to the basket big than Jalen and Farr.

Now he's a worst rebounder, so we'll take a step back there, but if his feet are set he's dynamic down low. Gaston should be able to provide rebounding...not sure how he'll do scoring wise.

I don't see X getting a 5th year guy for these reasons:

1) what we need is an athletic wing that is defense first...there's not a ton of guys like that out there that are looking to transfer. Usually the 5th year guys are looking to be THE star of a team not a role player.
2) You've got Myles-Sumner-Blueitt-JP returning...that is a lot of scoring returning...not a ton of touches for a 5th year guy.

Our best hope is Goodin can be that defensive stopper...which would be incredible as a freshman but who knows?

I think next years team is better than this years team honestly...Defense might take a step back, but I expect this team to average 80 PPG

[XMuskieFTW]

O'Mara has shown flashes of greatness, but has a lot to work on. If he can travel less, improve rebounding, free throws, and defense, and foul less, he's going to be a stud. Those are a lot of ifs, but I think he can do it. His post moves are exceptional and if he can learn to pass out of the post even half as well as Matt did, he's going to be a massive offensive weapon.

[outsideobserver11]

Freaking Rothstein is doubling down again on SucKS being in the Top 20 next year. This after he had picked them to be in the Top 15 this year and I called him out on Twitter telling him that the Borecats couldn't score. SucKS loses their two best bigs and their point guard. What? Is Gary Clark going to go off for 40 every night and YTG all of a sudden have a miraculous dream that shows him an offensive schematic?

Unbelievable.

Caupain is back. Lost Ellis, Deberry, Cobb, and Thomas. Even most UC fans don't think top 25 is realistic next year. 6 pretty good players and then a bunch of unknowns or projects.

[Muskie]

No JR no top 25.

Why? You don't think his 9.9 points per game can be replaced? Genuinely curious.

[nasdadjr]

Granted its limited touches...but O'Mara is a better back to the basket big than Jalen and Farr.

Now he's a worst rebounder, so we'll take a step back there, but if his feet are set he's dynamic down low. Gaston should be able to provide rebounding...not sure how he'll do scoring wise.

I don't see X getting a 5th year guy for these reasons:

1) what we need is an athletic wing that is defense first...there's not a ton of guys like that out there that are looking to transfer. Usually the 5th year guys are looking to be THE star of a team not a role player.
2) You've got Myles-Sumner-Blueitt-JP returning...that is a lot of scoring returning...not a ton of touches for a 5th year guy.

Our best hope is Goodin can be that defensive stopper...which would be incredible as a freshman but who knows?

I think next years team is better than this years team honestly...Defense might take a step back, but I expect this team to average 80 PPG

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. Very few 5th year guys are planning on making it big in NBA if at all or else they would just go there instead. Those are the type of role player guys and defensive specialists for teams like X. There are always exceptions but more often than not you don't get 5th year guys looking to score 25 a game and get to the show

[nuts4xu]

Freaking Rothstein is doubling down again on SucKS being in the Top 20 next year. This after he had picked them to be in the Top 15 this year and I called him out on Twitter telling him that the Borecats couldn't score. SucKS loses their two best bigs and their point guard. What? Is Gary Clark going to go off for 40 every night and YTG all of a sudden have a miraculous dream that shows him an offensive schematic?

Unbelievable.

They have a nice recruiting class coming in, which includes Jarron Cumberland. He is a 4 star shooting guard that should help the UC offense, and a top 100 recruit (close to top 50). They also have the transfer from NC State and a freshman big committed to Clifton. The guys they are losing (Ellis, Thomas, Cobb, and DeBerry) were not world beaters and didn't develop much during their careers. If I was a UC fan, I would be sick of watching Ellis and Thomas lollygag it up the floor each night.

[XUMIOH12]

I think Xavier should be pre season ranked borderline top 10, seems like thats what most of the early media is thinking.

[xuwin]

They have a nice recruiting class coming in, which includes Jarron Cumberland. He is a 4 star shooting guard that should help the UC offense, and a top 100 recruit (close to top 50). They also have the transfer from NC State and a freshman big committed to Clifton. The guys they are losing (Ellis, Thomas, Cobb, and DeBerry) were not world beaters and didn't develop much during their careers. If I was a UC fan, I would be sick of watching Ellis and Thomas lollygag it up the floor each night.

Very few players have developed much during their careers under Cronin. Even Ellis left and came back after developing under another coach.

[Masterofreality]

Caupain is back. Lost Ellis, Deberry, Cobb, and Thomas. Even most UC fans don't think top 25 is realistic next year. 6 pretty good players and then a bunch of unknowns or projects.

Sorry. My bad. I was thinking of Cobb- shooting guard, not point guard.

[94GRAD]

Granted its limited touches...but O'Mara is a better back to the basket big than Jalen and Farr.

Now he's a worst rebounder, so we'll take a step back there, but if his feet are set he's dynamic down low. Gaston should be able to provide rebounding...not sure how he'll do scoring wise.

I don't see X getting a 5th year guy for these reasons:

1) what we need is an athletic wing that is defense first...there's not a ton of guys like that out there that are looking to transfer. Usually the 5th year guys are looking to be THE star of a team not a role player.
2) You've got Myles-Sumner-Blueitt-JP returning...that is a lot of scoring returning...not a ton of touches for a 5th year guy.

Our best hope is Goodin can be that defensive stopper...which would be incredible as a freshman but who knows?

I think next years team is better than this years team honestly...Defense might take a step back, but I expect this team to average 80 PPG


You know we averaged 81 ppg this year correct?

[Xavier]

I think next years team is better than this years team honestly...Defense might take a step back, but I expect this team to average 80 PPG

Defense can't afford to take a step back. At all.

Well, with a really strong offense and a step back in defense Xavier would have another strong regular season/high seed. But the defense needs to be better to advance where we hope they can in March.

[outsideobserver11]

Sorry. My bad. I was thinking of Cobb- shooting guard, not point guard.

No worries. They all sort of run together after a while. UC will continue to just meddle doing what they are doing now until Cronin changes his recruiting strategy. He needs to start bringing in some high IQ players and not just a team with 13 athletes on it. You guys I'm sure don't look very often but all throughout the season UC fans were mentioning how much they enjoyed watching Xavier play and enjoyed watching a real basketball game being played. You guys know how it is though, you stay fans because your loyal even if you don't necessarily like the product.

[bleedXblue]

Caupain is back. Lost Ellis, Deberry, Cobb, and Thomas. Even most UC fans don't think top 25 is realistic next year. 6 pretty good players and then a bunch of unknowns or projects.

UC will be fine next year. They really didn't lose much and have a nice nucleus back. Plus they get almost 10 guaranteed wins in that crap conference every year.

[Xavier]

Actually it isn't. On both CBS (#5) and Yahoo (#7) they mention that Reynolds is likely gone.

Guess I should have read the link, my mistake.

[Milhouse]

You know we averaged 81 ppg this year correct?

nope didn't realize that.

[JTG]

Villanova has given us the template for winning in March. Play EVERY, and I mean EVERY possession on defense, as though your life depended on it. I don't think I remember seeing a team more determined to lock down their opponent than last night. They didn't always succeed, but they busted their asses on every possession of that game.

[scoscox]

Villanova has given us the template for winning in March. Play EVERY, and I mean EVERY possession on defense, as though your life depended on it. I don't think I remember seeing a team more determined to lock down their opponent than last night. They didn't always succeed, but they busted their asses on every possession of that game.

That's the same group of guys that flamed out early on multiple occasions, so they earned that the hard way. Hopefully, X reaps the same lessons and benefits.

[KabeX]

Villanova has given us the template for winning in March. Play EVERY, and I mean EVERY possession on defense, as though your life depended on it. I don't think I remember seeing a team more determined to lock down their opponent than last night. They didn't always succeed, but they busted their asses on every possession of that game.

A-freakin-men!

[scoscox]

Thinking about our lineup next year is exciting.

PG: Edmond Sumner
SG: Myles Davis
SF: Trevon Bluiett
PF: Jalen Reynolds
PF: Rashid Gaston

Bench: JP Macura, Kaiser Gates, Quentin Goodin, Sean O'Mara, Larry Austin, Jr., Makinde London, Eddie Ekiyor, Tyrique Jones

That team is STACKED. Not only with talent and guys who know how to play, but experience and meaningful, albeit painful, experience.

JP should be starting somewhere and will be coming off the bench, Kaiser will be a great bench weapon, O'Mara I think will be neck and neck to start, Larry will have experience and is still a great athlete and a positive force imo, Makinde only has upside and regardless is another athlete off the bench with Ekiyor and Jones that frontcourt depth is almost comical. Lastly, I think Quentin is the type of player ready to contribute and will really push some of the other guys as well. That is exciting. All these guys, especially Edmond, getting another year of development... woah.

Unfortunately, there are going to be a lot of very good teams next year across the country and in the Big East. I hope these guys learned from the pain and just kill everyone next year. Let's GO X

[Masterofreality]

Thinking about our lineup next year is exciting.

PG: Edmond Sumner
SG: Myles Davis
SF: Trevon Bluiett
PF: Jalen Reynolds
PF: Rashid Gaston

Bench: JP Macura, Kaiser Gates, Quentin Goodin, Sean O'Mara, Larry Austin, Jr., Makinde London, Eddie Ekiyor, Tyrique Jones

That team is STACKED. Not only with talent and guys who know how to play, but experience and meaningful, albeit painful, experience.

JP should be starting somewhere and will be coming off the bench, Kaiser will be a great bench weapon, O'Mara I think will be neck and neck to start, Larry will have experience and is still a great athlete and a positive force imo, Makinde only has upside and regardless is another athlete off the bench with Ekiyor and Jones that frontcourt depth is almost comical. Lastly, I think Quentin is the type of player ready to contribute and will really push some of the other guys as well. That is exciting. All these guys, especially Edmond, getting another year of development... woah.

Unfortunately, there are going to be a lot of very good teams next year across the country and in the Big East. I hope these guys learned from the pain and just kill everyone next year. Let's GO X

Perimeter defense is a concern.

[scoscox]

Perimeter defense is a concern.

We lose Remy and add Goodin. I think Goodin's a good enough athlete to be a very good defender. All the other guys will hopefully improve. Should atleast be better than it was this year.

[Masterofreality]

We lose Remy and add Goodin. I think Goodin's a good enough athlete to be a very good defender. All the other guys will hopefully improve. Should atleast be better than it was this year.

We'll need JP to step up big defensively in man. Kaiser should hopefully improve as well.

[scoscox]

Agreed. Jp is the only one that stands out as really needing to improve. Myles and Trevon could stand to obviously, but JP needs to. He's too good offensively to be limited by it. I'm ready for Kaiser to become a great player.

[XUFan09]

We lose Remy and add Goodin. I think Goodin's a good enough athlete to be a very good defender. All the other guys will hopefully improve. Should atleast be better than it was this year.
He'll probably get his doors blown off sometimes by not being in the right posture for quick lateral movement, like Edmond did this year, and he'll probably make mistakes within the system too. Even good freshman defenders are guilty of these things. Kaiser Gates this past season was mostly an exception to this rule by the second half of the season, but the last freshman who performed on that level defensively was probably Dante Jackson. It's possible, but I don't EXPECT Goodin to be at this level, meaning that he probably is in no position to replace Abell's performance.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[scoscox]

I don't mean that he'll replace Remy, just that I think he'll be a net positive defensively or is definitely capable of doing so athletically. I'd imagine Edmond will get better as he improves his conditioning and adjusting to the college game. With his length he could be a very disruptive force.

[Muskie]

Thinking about our lineup next year is exciting.

PG: Edmond Sumner
SG: Myles Davis
SF: Trevon Bluiett
PF: Jalen Reynolds
PF: Rashid Gaston

Bench: JP Macura, Kaiser Gates, Quentin Goodin, Sean O'Mara, Larry Austin, Jr., Makinde London, Eddie Ekiyor, Tyrique Jones

That team is STACKED. Not only with talent and guys who know how to play, but experience and meaningful, albeit painful, experience.

JP should be starting somewhere and will be coming off the bench, Kaiser will be a great bench weapon, O'Mara I think will be neck and neck to start, Larry will have experience and is still a great athlete and a positive force imo, Makinde only has upside and regardless is another athlete off the bench with Ekiyor and Jones that frontcourt depth is almost comical. Lastly, I think Quentin is the type of player ready to contribute and will really push some of the other guys as well. That is exciting. All these guys, especially Edmond, getting another year of development... woah.

Unfortunately, there are going to be a lot of very good teams next year across the country and in the Big East. I hope these guys learned from the pain and just kill everyone next year. Let's GO X

I have no idea how good Gaston is in relation to the guys on the Roster or Ekiyor?

[scoscox]

Nor do I. I'm just assuming the other forward spot is a two horse race between he and O'Mara. Obviously, someone else (e.g. Kaiser) could end up occupying it.

[xu82]

This is looking like the longest off-season ever.

[GoMuskies]

The good news for JP is that when we're in the 1-3-1 he's our best defender.

[LA Muskie]

We lose Remy and add Goodin. I think Goodin's a good enough athlete to be a very good defender. All the other guys will hopefully improve. Should atleast be better than it was this year.

There are very, very few true freshman plus defenders. Very very few.

[xukeith]

What was post 2015 Men's championship early poll to top 25?
I imagine X getting 0 top 25 votes one year ago.

[xukeith]

We lose Remy and add Goodin. I think Goodin's a good enough athlete to be a very good defender. All the other guys will hopefully improve. Should atleast be better than it was this year.

Remy had 3 sweet 16 experiences.
Goodin????

[scoscox]

There are very, very few true freshman plus defenders. Very very few.

Okay, maybe I'm just saying he won't be a Myles or JP like addition to the defense, in that, once he adjusts to the college game, he will be very capable. Athletically, we have a few guards that are not capable. That's all I really meant.

[scoscox]

Remy had 3 sweet 16 experiences.
Goodin????

Strictly taking stock of inventory. No comparison involved here.

[bobbiemcgee]

Gates will improve a ton this summer and get huge minutes imho. Honestly, think he will be one of the best guys on this team. You know what they say about the best thing about freshmen.....

[xu82]

Gates will improve a ton this summer and get huge minutes imho. Honestly, think he will be one of the best guys on this team. You know what they say about the best thing about freshmen.....

Other than having no idea what to expect from Ed, Gates was probably the biggest surprise of the year for me. I did not see that coming from him!

[MADXSTER]

Other than having no idea what to expect from Ed, Gates was probably the biggest surprise of the year for me. I did not see that coming from him!

Gates was the #1 PF coming out of Georgia. I knew he would be good but just didn't know how he would be able to effect the team.

[XUGRAD80]

I don't really look at how good a defender is one on one, because the way X and most teams play, that rarely happens. Mack, and virtually every other coach is much more concerned about the players ability to play defense within the system and as a member of the team. He can be the greatest one on one defender in the world, but if he can't learn the switches, the positioning, and the help concepts that the teams employ he is probably not going to get much playing time. This isn't Hoosiers, and players are not assigned to a certain player like is portrayed in that movie. Nobody is playing a box and 1 defense and a lot of teams are playing zone more and more. Even a lot of of man on man defenses are mixing in zone principles and there are those teams that play "matchup" zones with man principles. My point being, the defense being played at the major college level is about much more than just the physical ability of a certain player to guard another player the whole game. They also have to be in a the right place at the right time. This takes time to learn and is why most freshmen suffer when playing defense.

[Musketeer_15]

Westgate Las Vegas Superbook gives X 20-1 odds to winning it all next year.

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/15142494/duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-seen-early-national-championship-favorites-las-vegas

[Muncie]

I don't really look at how good a defender is one on one, because the way X and most teams play, that rarely happens. Mack, and virtually every other coach is much more concerned about the players ability to play defense within the system and as a member of the team. He can be the greatest one on one defender in the world, but if he can't learn the switches, the positioning, and the help concepts that the teams employ he is probably not going to get much playing time. This isn't Hoosiers, and players are not assigned to a certain player like is portrayed in that movie. Nobody is playing a box and 1 defense and a lot of teams are playing zone more and more. Even a lot of of man on man defenses are mixing in zone principles and there are those teams that play "matchup" zones with man principles. My point being, the defense being played at the major college level is about much more than just the physical ability of a certain player to guard another player the whole game. They also have to be in a the right place at the right time. This takes time to learn and is why most freshmen suffer when playing defense.
Excellent post, much food for thought .