Players Declaring for Draft

[XUFan09]

This could also work as the general thread for the draft. My main motivation is to remind people that players can now declare for the draft, receive feedback on what they need to do, and then come back to school. I hope someone who knows the details better can relay them, but I'm hoping to preempt the predictable freakout when Player X declares (e.g. Bluiett).

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[LA Muskie]

Thanks! You are right on all counts. And it's a noble idea. But I suspect the freak-out will happen nevertheless.


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[GoMuskies]

This is an idiotic system. I've got an idea: let's let anyone and everyone get feedback from NBA teams and scouts, and after that feedback is in THEN people can declare or not declare for the draft.

[Masterofreality]

It is inevitable that at least one, or maybe two Xavier players will declare for the draft. It happens every year. :rolleyes:

[GoMuskies]

It is inevitable that at least one, or maybe two Xavier players will declare for the draft.


With this stupid ass system, it probably is inevitable.

[Xavier]

As a coach- would you want your kids declaring? Even if they don't stand a chance it gives them good idea of what they should work on and things like that. (Not saying Mack cant but it would reinforce what he is already saying) Or would you be too nervous that they end up declaring?

[XUMIOH12]

this new system helps the kids, but hurts the coaches. Many players who wouldnt otherwise "declare" for the draft will now do so, just to test it out. I believe that before the "return or declare for good" deadline, is the end of the signing period for recruits. So coaches could have players kind of in limbo as to whether or not they will be returning and also not knowing whether or not to sign another player.

[XUMIOH12]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241285/Yales-Makai-Mason-To-Test-Draft-Waters

Here is an example of the new rules effect already.

[Chalmers0]

this new system helps the kids, but hurts the coaches. Many players who wouldnt otherwise "declare" for the draft will now do so, just to test it out. I believe that before the "return or declare for good" deadline, is the end of the signing period for recruits. So coaches could have players kind of in limbo as to whether or not they will be returning and also not knowing whether or not to sign another player.

If you are relying on the spring signing period that much anyway you are in a pretty bad spot as a coach. A vast majority of coaches either operate with 1 scholarship open almost all the time (or as if they can open one at any time) anyway.

If I was a coach I'm fine with this. Players like Tre or Edmond can declare, go through the process, hear directly what they need to work on and why it would be a bad idea to stay in the draft this season.

[XUMIOH12]

Here is the rule before this year:
http://www.ncaa.org/remaining-eligible-professional-draft-inquiries

A little explanation of how it works now:
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/1/12/10754458/nba-draft-early-entry-deadline

[XUMIOH12]

If you are relying on the spring signing period that much anyway you are in a pretty bad spot as a coach. A vast majority of coaches either operate with 1 scholarship open almost all the time (or as if they can open one at any time) anyway.

If I was a coach I'm fine with this. Players like Tre or Edmond can declare, go through the process, hear directly what they need to work on and why it would be a bad idea to stay in the draft this season.

If you are operating with an open scholarship and then a player unexpectedly stays in the draft, you now have 2 open scholarships for the next season, and would probably have to fill them with a transfer when you werent expecting it.

In general, it probably wont have much effect on the coaches, but the point is that after the signing period is over, you still could have a player that you dont 100% know is coming back or not.

[XUMIOH12]

Signing Dates:
http://www.nationalletter.org/signingDates/

obviously most recruits sign in the November early period. But the April 13 to May 18 period ends before the May 25th deadline this year to come back from the draft declaration.

[LA Muskie]

This is an idiotic system. I've got an idea: let's let anyone and everyone get feedback from NBA teams and scouts, and after that feedback is in THEN people can declare or not declare for the draft.

That's way too logical.


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[paulxu]

This is an idiotic system. I've got an idea: let's let anyone and everyone get feedback from NBA teams and scouts, and after that feedback is in THEN people can declare or not declare for the draft.

You have to remember that colleges are the bball minor leagues; adjust your rational thinking to accommodate that.

[LA Muskie]

While we're at it we should make law students quit law school before interviewing for jobs. Because that obviously makes sense too.


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[GoMuskies]

While we're at it we should make law students quit law school before interviewing for jobs. Because that obviously makes sense too.


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I think that would be fine so long as they can re-enter law school once Big Law tells them to get bent.

[nasdadjr]

Can anyone explain to me why a collegiate baseball player can declare for draft get drafted not sign and return to school but a basketball player gets like a week then must make a critical life altering and irreversible decision? Sounds fair to me

[xeus]

I think that would be fine so long as they can re-enter law school once Big Law tells them to get bent.

No, what kids do now is sue their law school. Talk about entitlement.

[XfansinKy]

Just read Calipari's is registering every single player(including walk ons) for the NBA draft. Seems like overkill to me.

[XUFan09]

Just read Calipari's is registering every single player(including walk ons) for the NBA draft. Seems like overkill to me.
He's probably just trying to make the point that players should be able to explore their opportunities in basketball to the same degree as their classmates explore various opportunities.

I wonder if the NBA isn't happy with the new rules, as they will have to deal with a lot more players. It might just be an inconvenience, though.

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[X-band '01]

The NBA itself, or just the scouts and staffers that run the pre-draft camps? My understanding is that players will now get the chance to be evaluated once more by NBA talent scouts before they reach a point of no return as to whether they return to school or hire an agent and remain in the draft.

Another poster in another thread asked about why the NBA and MLB have different rules - we're talking complete apples and oranges here. There is a much bigger farm system in MLB than there is in the NBA; for basketball it's just the NBA, the D-League and overseas competition. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind the NBA adopting a similar rule where you can either opt into the NBA draft after your senior year of HS or wait until 3 years have passed (either juniors or redshirt sophomores) to declare.

[xu82]

I'm thinking of declaring. Who's with me?

[XfansinKy]

He's probably just trying to make the point that players should be able to explore their opportunities in basketball to the same degree as their classmates explore various opportunities.

I wonder if the NBA isn't happy with the new rules, as they will have to deal with a lot more players. It might just be an inconvenience, though.

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That was my first thought. I thought that a couple of our guys have already been to the combine too though. I thought that was where Jalen and Ed posted + 40" verticals.

[GIMMFD]

That was my first thought. I thought that a couple of our guys have already been to the combine too though. I thought that was where Jalen and Ed posted + 40" verticals.

I believe you're right about that, wasn't that from last summer, I say screw it and let our guys go, evaluate what you need to work on, in the end helps us put out better players on the court. I don't see anybody that would declare right now and be 100% gone off our roster.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Probably not at any combine but at applicable PG and PF camps...E.g. Chris Paul PG camp and Lebron's where Crawford dunked on him.


That was my first thought. I thought that a couple of our guys have already been to the combine too though. I thought that was where Jalen and Ed posted + 40" verticals.

[XfansinKy]

I believe you're right about that, wasn't that from last summer, I say screw it and let our guys go, evaluate what you need to work on, in the end helps us put out better players on the court. I don't see anybody that would declare right now and be 100% gone off our roster.

I'm thinking it was in Chicago and Jalen out jumped the vertical leap device.

[nasdadjr]

I'm sorry to me it's not apples and oranges. In the end no matter what major league or NBA rules are in place it is ultimately the NCAA that determines a players amateur status. The NCAA makes those rules not professional leagues. The NCAA tells a baseball player they can get drafted then go to college but a basketball player can't. The NCAA is the one that has the power to say a kid can look into his draft prospects then come back to school. They just choose not to.

[XUMIOH12]

I'm sorry to me it's not apples and oranges. In the end no matter what major league or NBA rules are in place it is ultimately the NCAA that determines a players amateur status. The NCAA makes those rules not professional leagues. The NCAA tells a baseball player they can get drafted then go to college but a basketball player can't. The NCAA is the one that has the power to say a kid can look into his draft prospects then come back to school. They just choose not to.

so are you going to complain about hockey then too?

[XUMIOH12]

Probably not at any combine but at applicable PG and PF camps...E.g. Chris Paul PG camp and Lebron's where Crawford dunked on him.

right, they havent been to the NBA draft combine

[XUMIOH12]

I wouldnt mind seeing basketball have similar rules to baseball in regards to being drafted and what not. But, in order for that to happen, the D-League would need to become a true feeder/minor league for the NBA. It's one of the biggest differences between baseball/hockey and basketball pro leagues.

[ammtd34]

That was my first thought. I thought that a couple of our guys have already been to the combine too though. I thought that was where Jalen and Ed posted + 40" verticals.

I'm pretty sure it was in Cintas. Matt Jennings posted them on Instagram.

[XUMIOH12]

I'm pretty sure it was in Cintas. Matt Jennings posted them on Instagram.

yes, that was in Cintas.

[LA Muskie]

I'm pretty sure it was in Cintas. Matt Jennings posted them on Instagram.

That was my recollection as well. I believe our staff replicates the combine tests.


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[XfansinKy]

That was my recollection as well. I believe our staff replicates the combine tests.


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Ok thanks. For some reason i thought it was in Chicago.

[nasdadjr]

Yes... Issues of what makes an amateur an amateur should not vary from sport to sport. In what world does that make sense?

[XUGRAD80]

Yes... Issues of what makes an amateur an amateur should not vary from sport to sport. In what world does that make sense?

Only in the worlds of those that "run" the sports. Those that "run" it set up the rules to their OWN greatest advantage, as has been shown time and time again when dealing with the IOC and the AAU, let alone the NCAA. It not only can vary from sport to sport, it can vary from country to country and from organization to organization.

[Kahns Krazy]

Yes... Issues of what makes an amateur an amateur should not vary from sport to sport. In what world does that make sense?

Agree. And why does it make sense that baseball is 9 on 9 and basketball is 5 on 5. Let's fix that too. And the ball should be the same size. And basketball should be played on grass and dirt too. Let's make all the rules the same, because that is arbitrarily fair.

[nasdadjr]

Agree. And why does it make sense that baseball is 9 on 9 and basketball is 5 on 5. Let's fix that too. And the ball should be the same size. And basketball should be played on grass and dirt too. Let's make all the rules the same, because that is arbitrarily fair.

Apples and oranges your post makes zero sense

[XMuskieFTW]

but what about kiwis...

[nasdadjr]

but what about kiwis...

The Ryan freel of the fruit world

[xeus]

Yes... Issues of what makes an amateur an amateur should not vary from sport to sport. In what world does that make sense?

It makes sense in a world where there is an enormous difference in terms of what it means to be "professional." Between gymnastics and football. Between wrestling and basketball. Between cross country and baseball.

[nasdadjr]

It makes sense in a world where there is an enormous difference in terms of what it means to be "professional." Between gymnastics and football. Between wrestling and basketball. Between cross country and baseball.

To me it's quite simple. When you cash that first check your now a professional and not a second before. Would anyone disagree? Hiring an agent doesn't make you a pro, getting draft advice doesn't make you a pro. The only thing that makes you a pro at anything in life is someone saying here is money I need your expertise to complete this job. That is reasonable

[TUclutch]

To me it's quite simple. When you cash that first check your now a professional and not a second before. Would anyone disagree? Hiring an agent doesn't make you a pro, getting draft advice doesn't make you a pro. The only thing that makes you a pro at anything in life is someone saying here is money I need your expertise to complete this job. That is reasonable

Hiring an agent is definitely a factor in my opinion. They are brokering deals for you. Not to mention, agents will be fighting for athletes and give/promise them free stuff. Taking that stuff is the definition of impermissible benefits. The way it is this year is how it should be. Let them go to the combine, get information that anyone is able to get, and make their mind up. If they want to stay in college come back. If they don't, sign an agent

[nasdadjr]

Hiring an agent is definitely a factor in my opinion. They are brokering deals for you. Not to mention, agents will be fighting for athletes and give/promise them free stuff. Taking that stuff is the definition of impermissible benefits. The way it is this year is how it should be. Let them go to the combine, get information that anyone is able to get, and make their mind up. If they want to stay in college come back. If they don't, sign an agent

I can't agree for one major reason. An agent can't negotiate on your behalf until after you are drafted. If your not drafted you should be allowed to go back to school. Your never paid your not a pro. I'm sorry but for a baseball player to be able to get drafted then decide if he wants to go pro or go to college, or for a 16 year old golfer to be able to compete in the PGA or LPGA and retain amateur status while a basketball player gets a couple weeks to make a life changing decision with no reversal is wrong

[scoscox]

I can't agree for one major reason. An agent can't negotiate on your behalf until after you are drafted. If your not drafted you should be allowed to go back to school. Your never paid your not a pro. I'm sorry but for a baseball player to be able to get drafted then decide if he wants to go pro or go to college, or for a 16 year old golfer to be able to compete in the PGA or LPGA and retain amateur status while a basketball player gets a couple weeks to make a life changing decision with no reversal is wrong

I agree, but agents can definitely do things for you before you are drafted.

[DoubleD86]

I can't agree for one major reason. An agent can't negotiate on your behalf until after you are drafted. If your not drafted you should be allowed to go back to school. Your never paid your not a pro. I'm sorry but for a baseball player to be able to get drafted then decide if he wants to go pro or go to college, or for a 16 year old golfer to be able to compete in the PGA or LPGA and retain amateur status while a basketball player gets a couple weeks to make a life changing decision with no reversal is wrong

The reason football and basketball is different then every other sport is simple. People care, so they want the insulation of the illusion of amateur status. It is all done to protect the programs, the fans who follow those programs and the businesses paying and profiting off of the interest of the fans. Millions (or billions) are spent to consume College Football and College Basketball so all the consumers (fans, media, sponsors, school programs) want to be protected at the expense of the players. If people cared about College Baseball or College Hockey or College Golf like they do football and basketball, you can be sure the rules would change immediately.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Trevon has entered his name, but isn't hiring an agent. BUT TIME FOR EVERYONE TO PANIC REGARDLESS!!!

[mistabeecee41]

Trevon has entered his name, but isn't hiring an agent. BUT TIME FOR EVERYONE TO PANIC REGARDLESS!!!

He would be crazy not to.

[markchal]

There's literally no chance he stays in, but it's a smart move to test the waters and get feedback. Honestly, is there any downside to this? Why wouldn't someone like Sumner declare too? And, given the assumption he's gone, why hasn't Reynolds declared yet? Even if he wants to stay or play his last year elsewhere, it'd be foolish not to get that feedback, right?

[Mrs. Garrett]

Trevon has entered his name, but isn't hiring an agent. BUT TIME FOR EVERYONE TO PANIC REGARDLESS!!!

Athletically, I really don't ever see him playing in the NBA.

[bjf123]

Trevon has entered his name, but isn't hiring an agent. BUT TIME FOR EVERYONE TO PANIC REGARDLESS!!!

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Sumner however is not entering.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CevLj4XWEAEuLAB.jpg

[XMuskieFTW]

Sumner however is not entering.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CevLj4XWEAEuLAB.jpg

I like this a lot. Seems like the draft process could be a bit of a distraction even if a player has no real intention of going through with it.

[drudy23]

Is Jalen declaring (for real, not just testing) as done of a deal as everyone is saying it is?

We need him back.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The Reynolds decision is a mystery to me, Bluiett's is the correct one, Sumner's also seems like the correct one to me. He gets three shots at it, so declaring with no intention of staying in would be something you do in your sophomore year only. He now keeps all three intact for his three remaining years of eligibility. If (hopefully when) he becomes an NBA ready guard, it's only a bonus.

[Milhouse]

The Reynolds decision is a mystery to me, Bluiett's is the correct one, Sumner's also seems like the correct one to me. He gets three shots at it, so declaring with no intention of staying in would be something you do in your sophomore year only. He now keeps all three intact for his three remaining years of eligibility. If (hopefully when) he becomes an NBA ready guard, it's only a bonus.

I'm nearly positive you can declare and get feedback 3 times and take your name out.

It wouldn't have hurt him at all if he declared this year and took his name out...

[xufan2434]

I'm nearly positive you can declare and get feedback 3 times and take your name out.

It wouldn't have hurt him at all if he declared this year and took his name out...

I honestly think it depends on a player to player basis. Yes, you can withdraw your name 3 times but I don't know if that's what Edmond needs most. IMO, he needs to work on his jumper and pull up game off the dribble. Also needs to study and learn defenses so he can run the team (Not that he can't do that already).. But all of those are things he can do on his own time and inside the gym. Also needs to hit the weights obviously.

While Trevon can do all that as well. I think what is going to propel him is competing against the best 1 on 1 and in a 5 v 5 situation. He already has the tools and his jumper is there. He needs to learn what it takes to make up for his lack of quickness and athleticism to compete and beat the best. That only comes from experience and nothing better than this. On flip side, Ed would benefit as well. Just think he makes a bigger jump in his level of play by improving the little things and becoming more polished.

[XUFan09]

I'm nearly positive you can declare and get feedback 3 times and take your name out.

It wouldn't have hurt him at all if he declared this year and took his name out...
Yep.

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[Chermy23]

Who's saying its a done deal??

[SemajParlor]

If you remove yourself from the Xavier fans that we are, Jalen leaving makes sense. His only plus to return would be to chase a Final 4. Not in his best interest.

[Milhouse]

If you remove yourself from the Xavier fans that we are, Jalen leaving makes sense. His only plus to return would be to chase a Final 4. Not in his best interest.

Yep agreed 100%. If he returns he'll go down as one of my all time favorites. Can't fault him if he wants to go for the money though.

[bobbiemcgee]

He promised us a FF, so he can't leave yet.

[Chermy23]

Per Jeff Goodman, Reynolds to declare w/o an agent

[nasdadjr]

The reason football and basketball is different then every other sport is simple. People care, so they want the insulation of the illusion of amateur status. It is all done to protect the programs, the fans who follow those programs and the businesses paying and profiting off of the interest of the fans. Millions (or billions) are spent to consume College Football and College Basketball so all the consumers (fans, media, sponsors, school programs) want to be protected at the expense of the players. If people cared about College Baseball or College Hockey or College Golf like they do football and basketball, you can be sure the rules would change immediately.

It's a shame your 100% right on why it's the way it is.

[bleedXblue]

Neither player is projected on any site that I have seen to get drafted in the first two rounds.

I could see Jalen getting persuaded to join the D league........

[GetUp5]

With the new rules, why wouldn't you declare? I'm with Calipari. Enter everyone on the team.

Trevon has NBA talent, but his feedback will probably be that he needs to work on his defense and athleticism. Then he'll be back at Xavier. Jalen? He's 24 years old. It makes sense for him to go play professionally, be it the D League or overseas. His body clock is ticking and if he comes back it's one less year that he can make money off of his talent.

Relax.

[GetUp5]

The PG for Yale, Makai Mason, declared for f***s sake. It's ok.

[SemajParlor]

His body clock is ticking and if he comes back it's one less year that he can make money off of his talent.

Relax.

Or depending how you look at it - one more full year he risks not making money off his talent.

I would love for him to come back obviously. But he will graduate (I hope).. He should go.

[GIMMFD]

The PG for Yale, Makai Mason, declared for f***s sake. It's ok.

You're telling me he wasn't a lottery pick in your mind??? ;)

[Muncie]

Nothing wrong with an MBA , in the long run might be more valuable than bball considering injury risk etc

[Juice]

Nothing wrong with an MBA , in the long run might be more valuable than bball considering injury risk etc

Yeah but you can always get an NBA. You only have so many year to make money playing basketball.

[paulxu]

Yeah but you can always get an NBA.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

[drudy23]

Perhaps just wishful thinking, and certainly my opinion (ok, it's a guess):

Jalen will be back...100%. I think Jalen plays ball for fun. It's the avenue for him to enjoy college, be with his boys, entertain the fans, and deliver on his pledge to Xavier fans. I think he loses some of the love when basketball becomes his job. It's a year...I don't think Jalen gives up what he loves and I truly believe he wants to deliver a Final Four. I don't think he wants to leave...the money signs are flashing, but Jalen is STRONG!!!!!

Come back Jalen.

[XUMIOH12]

I don't think that means what you think it means.

lol

[XUMIOH12]

Perhaps just wishful thinking, and certainly my opinion (ok, it's a guess):

Jalen will be back...100%. I think Jalen plays ball for fun. It's the avenue for him to enjoy college, be with his boys, entertain the fans, and deliver on his pledge to Xavier fans. I think he loses some of the love when basketball becomes his job. It's a year...I don't think Jalen gives up what he loves and I truly believe he wants to deliver a Final Four. I don't think he wants to leave...the money signs are flashing, but Jalen is STRONG!!!!!

Come back Jalen.

who knows if that is true or not, but i really hope he comes back for his final year.

[markchal]

I will say I think it at least leaves the door open to Jalen to return that he's not signing with an agent. I really thought he would, so he could get more workouts and get moving on where he's going next. Maybe this isn't as much of a done deal as I thought (still think he goes ultimately, but now I'm less sure).

[xufan2434]

Someone who knows more than me would be able to answer this.. but is there even a scholarship available for everyone? With the 3 freshmen coming and Gaston transferring, is there room for Jalen and LAJ to stay? Does one of them have to leave or is there a chance for them all to stay? Would be pretty crowded on the roster

[XMuskieFTW]

Someone who knows more than me would be able to answer this.. but is there even a scholarship available for everyone? With the 3 freshmen coming and Gaston transferring, is there room for Jalen and LAJ to stay? Does one of them have to leave or is there a chance for them all to stay? Would be pretty crowded on the roster

If everyone stays, we'd still be fine. We'd be exactly at the limit.

[muskiefan82]

If everyone stays, we'd still be fine. We'd be exactly at the limit.

And apparently one of the only teams in America without someone transferring. Geez, there's a lot of guys leaving schools every year. It's crazy.

[GIMMFD]

And apparently one of the only teams in America without someone transferring. Geez, there's a lot of guys leaving schools every year. It's crazy.

Knock on wood, plenty of time to see a transfer...

[XUGRAD80]

If they just offered a D2 transfer (per the other thread), then they must be expecting somebody to be leaving.

[xufan02]

I really do not see Jalen coming back. Everyone that I have talked to puts it at a 5% chance for him returning. Let's just say he would rather be a professional at hoops not books.

[xavbball]

Apologies if this has already been posted. Bluiett and Reynolds are testing the NBA draft waters, Sumner is staying put.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2016/03/29/report-xaviers-trevon-bluiett-test-draft-waters/82389628/

[paulxu]

Go is always testing the waters to get out of Wichita.

[GoMuskies]

Go is always testing the waters to get out of Wichita.

Never man. Love it here.

[muskiefan82]

Go is always testing the waters to get out of Wichita.

There is water in Wichita?

[XUFan09]

If they just offered a D2 transfer (per the other thread), then they must be expecting somebody to be leaving.
Not necessarily. Cause and effect for transfers can go both ways. A player could be transferring, so the coaches know they have a spot they can fill. Or, the coaches see a transfer they like, and they know there is a player they can push out if necessary.

Two offseasons ago, Xavier had no open scholarship but they were still recruiting transfers. They didn't land any of the ones they want, and the roster stayed intact. If they had landed one of those guys, they already had a good idea who would get pushed out. My bet is Brandon Randolph, considering that he did transfer a year later.

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[drudy23]

Would it makes sense to pull in a D2 guy to push out a current D1 guy?

I'm with the others, looks the writing may be on the wall for Jalen.

Regardless, the staff likely already knows.

But then again it also doesn't make much sense to replace Jalen with a shooting guard. I talked myself into it...Jalen is staying.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

All it means is the staff is very happy with O'Mara, Gastin, London, Ekiyor, and Jones.

[scoscox]

Or we could just be loading the roster. Mack probably loves his depth and I think he loves these kind of players. Maybe because they remind him of himself.

[smileyy]

Apologies if this has already been posted. Bluiett and Reynolds are testing the NBA draft waters, Sumner is staying put.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2016/03/29/report-xaviers-trevon-bluiett-test-draft-waters/82389628/

The entire UK team (include walk-ons) are also going through this process. The NCAA has made it much more player friendly this year.