XAVIER vs WISCONSIN

[JTG]

Yes, a thousand times yes...at worst you still have a 1 point lead and the ball.

[XUFan09]

Yes, a thousand times yes...at worst you still have a 1 point lead and the ball.
Way too much time left to start a free throw contest. You give up probably two points there, when the alternative is the guy shooting a low-percentage 3.

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[JTG]

Sorry you're wrong, especially since we previously lost a tournament game in similar fashion.

[Frambo]

Sorry you're wrong, especially since we previously lost a tournament game in similar fashion.

Myles misplayed it by giving Koenig room to shoot the tying 3. He should have at least crowded him, forced him to dribble and/or pass it...and if he fouled him - that would be fine and play into your idea.

[XUFan09]

Sorry you're wrong, especially since we previously lost a tournament game in similar fashion.
Good attempt at an argument. And the respective times left in the game were different, so acting like they are the exact same is foolish. Similar, but a few seconds at the end of a game is a huge difference.

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[kyxu]

Myles misplayed it by giving Koenig room to shoot the tying 3. He should have at least crowded him, forced him to dribble and/or pass it...and if he fouled him - that would be fine and play into your idea.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way Myles defended Koenig's game-tying 3. He shot it from another state and hit it. I would much rather Myles defend the way he did than "crowd" Koenig, so that Koenig could just drive easily around him, collapse Xavier's D, and find a teammate much more wide open on the perimeter from closer range.

Xavier's D wasn't the problem that final minute. The problem was the string of wasted offensive possessions leading up.


Way too much time left to start a free throw contest. You give up probably two points there, when the alternative is the guy shooting a low-percentage 3.

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Exactly. When your opponent is shooting a 3 from 35 feet away, it's usually the results of defense.

[AviatorX]

Sorry you're wrong, especially since we previously lost a tournament game in similar fashion.

Lol. So much confidence yet so wrong. That was way way too early to foul, especially when XU's primary ball handler was shaky from the stripe.

You wanted Mack to hold a film session showing the end of the Nova-KU game right? Should he include Arch's post game comments about how they were only going to foul up 3 if the clock got under 5 seconds?

[MauriceX]

Sorry you're wrong, especially since we previously lost a tournament game in similar fashion.

Kenpom's take (http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/yet_another_study_about_fouling_when_up_3) on the fouling up three situation. Note that he only considers cases when the last possession starts with less than 12 seconds on the clock. That is because, in any other situation, there is no debate, you don't foul.

[xu82]

Are we still talking about this and second guessing? It's over people. Better yet, do what I've done. The recording is erased, and I'm telling myself this never really happened. You know, like the moon landings. I'll have to live with that. It's the best I can do....

[nasdadjr]

I'll say 2 things

1. I guess it doesn't matter because I don't think Xavier could beat this UNC team so tonight would have ended it.

2. It must feel way worse being a Virginia fan right now

[GoMuskies]

Even as we were losing it was much worse to be a UNI fan.

[scoscox]

I'll say 2 things

1. I guess it doesn't matter because I don't think Xavier could beat this UNC team so tonight would have ended it.

2. It must feel way worse being a Virginia fan right now

I would disagree with both

[nasdadjr]

I would disagree with both

Being Virginia fan is def way worse. Think about it elite 8 loss 3 years in a row. On top of that they were regionally paired with Michigan state a team that knocked them out the previous 2 times. Everyone says they have to beat the Spartans to go to final four. Imagine the Virginia fanbase euphoria when MSU lost on day one. Then they see more upsets and get a 10 seed Syracuse in the elite 8. They virtually pencilled themselves in Houston and then had a 14 pt lead in the 2nd half and absolutely collapsed. I think that story is WAY worse than our loss. Theirs is 3 years in the making and counting

[Masterofreality]

Being Virginia fan is def way worse. Think about it elite 8 loss 3 years in a row. On top of that they were regionally paired with Michigan state a team that knocked them out the previous 2 times. Everyone says they have to beat the Spartans to go to final four. Imagine the Virginia fanbase euphoria when MSU lost on day one. Then they see more upsets and get a 10 seed Syracuse in the elite 8. They virtually pencilled themselves in Houston and then had a 14 pt lead in the 2nd half and absolutely collapsed. I think that story is WAY worse than our loss. Theirs is 3 years in the making and counting

This. There are people poised on the tops of porticos all over the Commonwealth.

[xubrew]

Being Virginia fan is def way worse. Think about it elite 8 loss 3 years in a row. On top of that they were regionally paired with Michigan state a team that knocked them out the previous 2 times. Everyone says they have to beat the Spartans to go to final four. Imagine the Virginia fanbase euphoria when MSU lost on day one. Then they see more upsets and get a 10 seed Syracuse in the elite 8. They virtually pencilled themselves in Houston and then had a 14 pt lead in the 2nd half and absolutely collapsed. I think that story is WAY worse than our loss. Theirs is 3 years in the making and counting

Virginia lost in the Round of 32 last year, and in the Sweet Sixteen the year before that. This was their first Elite Eight since 1995.

[GoMuskies]

Virginia lost in the Round of 32 last year, and in the Sweet Sixteen the year before that. This was their first Elite Eight since 1995.

nasdadjr's post was clearly from the future xubrew. Duh.

[xubrew]

nasdadjr's post was clearly from the future xubrew. Duh.

Oh, of course. My mistake.

[Xavier]

Virginia lost in the Round of 32 last year, and in the Sweet Sixteen the year before that. This was their first Elite Eight since 1995.

Ha, that's classic.

[nasdadjr]

Virginia lost in the Round of 32 last year, and in the Sweet Sixteen the year before that. This was their first Elite Eight since 1995.

Yup I definitely misspoke but they did lose to Michigan state each time making the rest valid lol. Will someone remind me to stop posting wrong info when I'm on the sauce?

[XUFan09]

Though a couple of details are off, I do agree with the substance of his post. They held a steady double-digit lead through much of the game, and they absolutely blew it, after the road was paved nicely for them to reach the Final Four.

However, I don't agree with the idea that Xavier couldn't beat UNC.

[Xville]

Though a couple of details are off, I do agree with the substance of his post. They held a steady double-digit lead through much of the game, and they absolutely blew it, after the road was paved nicely for them to reach the Final Four.

However, I don't agree with the idea that Xavier couldn't beat UNC.

I do agree that the Virginia loss was way worse and I do agree that no way xavier was beating unc.

[SC in DC]

We'll never know--but I'm sure we wouldn't have been KILLED on the boards like ND was. So who knows, sure would have liked the chance.

[scoscox]

I'm pretty confused. Losing to a mediocre Wisconsin team in the second round is still 100% worse than everything you guys just mentioned. How in any way has Virginia performed worse than us?

I also think we're a very similar team to UNC in that we both have ridiculous depth and huge frontcourts. Depends on our guard play and it's a toss-up.

[scoscox]

I mean sure they feel bad and were leading most of the time, but they were in the elite eight. No shame in that even for a 1-seed

[XUFan09]

I'm pretty confused. Losing to a mediocre Wisconsin team in the second round is still 100% worse than everything you guys just mentioned. How in any way has Virginia performed worse than us?

I also think we're a very similar team to UNC in that we both have ridiculous depth and huge frontcourts. Depends on our guard play and it's a toss-up.

No one said they performed worse. People are just suggesting that it must feel worse to be that tantalizingly close to a Final Four, with national championship chances so high too, relatively speaking. It's not about shame. It's about the degree of disappointment.

[scoscox]

I understand and I just don't see that at all. I'm pretty confident I feel much worse about Xavier's postseason than any Virginia fans do about theirs, as it should be. I also thought we had pretty decent national title hopes. Sucks to be Virginia, but definitely sucks worse to be Xavier. I don't see how that's even arguable.

[Xavier]

I guess it's like how people say they would rather miss the playoffs than lose in the championship. To be so close and lose hurts more than never having a shot. (obviously, that's not how any X fan would feel. Same idea though). Reggie Miller said its the close losses he's had in the playoffs that hurt the most, knowing one or two plays were the difference. He'd much rather get blown out. If someone told me Xavier would be up 16 in the elite 8 and lose or never really have a shot at the final four which would hurt more?


I see both sides, I mean no doubt it would hurt more to be a Virginia fan....in fact, to me its a no brainer. Especially if, in 10 years, X still hasn't made it to the final four..ouch. On the hand, it's an elite 8. And it's better to get to the elite 8 then lose second round. But losing like that would be extremely hard to get over.

[nasdadjr]

No one said they performed worse. People are just suggesting that it must feel worse to be that tantalizingly close to a Final Four, with national championship chances so high too, relatively speaking. It's not about shame. It's about the degree of disappointment.

This

[drudy23]

As Garth Brooks eloquently said:

"I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the dance"

I'd rather lose in the most gut wrenching way possible than to not make it at all.

REALLY? People would rather not go than lose with some heartbreak, or even some major disappointment (like losing in the first round)? What kind of competitors are you? Probably like forfeit victories too.

[boozehound]

I understand and I just don't see that at all. I'm pretty confident I feel much worse about Xavier's postseason than any Virginia fans do about theirs, as it should be. I also thought we had pretty decent national title hopes. Sucks to be Virginia, but definitely sucks worse to be Xavier. I don't see how that's even arguable.

I got over this tournament pretty quickly. I'm still disappointed, but I didn't really see this team in the Final 4, particularly with the way that they stumbled late in the season. I did expect a Sweet 16 though, with a decent shot at an Elite 8, so I'm disappointed about that. This team just lacked something, especially late in the season. My opinion is that we don't have a 'go to' guard who can get to the rim and finish when we need a bucket. Myles and Trevon in particular have not been good tournament players, and this year was no exception. We should be good again next year. Ed has the potential to be 'that guy', but he just wasn't there yet.

[XUFan09]

As Garth Brooks eloquently said:

"I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the dance"

I'd rather lose in the most gut wrenching way possible than to not make it at all.

REALLY? People would rather not go than lose with some heartbreak, or even some major disappointment (like losing in the first round)? What kind of competitors are you? Probably like forfeit victories too.
Oh I'd still rather be there in the Elite Eight. But that loss had to be gut-wrenching when it happened.

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[Masterofreality]

I got over this tournament pretty quickly. I'm still disappointed, but I didn't really see this team in the Final 4, particularly with the way that they stumbled late in the season. I did expect a Sweet 16 though, with a decent shot at an Elite 8, so I'm disappointed about that. This team just lacked something, especially late in the season. My opinion is that we don't have a 'go to' guard who can get to the rim and finish when we need a bucket. Myles and Trevon in particular have not been good tournament players, and this year was no exception. We should be good again next year. Ed has the potential to be 'that guy', but he just wasn't there yet.

Totally this.....but one other thing.

We HAVE to be better on free throws. You cannot miss frees at the rate we did in the Dance or even the BE Tourney. Nova won, in large part, because they went 18-19 from the line in 2 straight games. That included 6 cluths ones in a row at the end of the Kansas game...and NONE of those throws even touched a rim. Clean all the way.

Free throws is one aspect that is in the players TOTAL control. You just have to get in the gym and practice them...like hitting golf balls on the range. No one expects to go 100%, but you can't just go 70% either....not when you want to get to a Four.

[Muskie]

If you want to spare yourselves... there's a giant photo of the final shot in SI.

[Xville]

I got over this tournament pretty quickly. I'm still disappointed, but I didn't really see this team in the Final 4, particularly with the way that they stumbled late in the season. I did expect a Sweet 16 though, with a decent shot at an Elite 8, so I'm disappointed about that. This team just lacked something, especially late in the season. My opinion is that we don't have a 'go to' guard who can get to the rim and finish when we need a bucket. Myles and Trevon in particular have not been good tournament players, and this year was no exception. We should be good again next year. Ed has the potential to be 'that guy', but he just wasn't there yet.

I agree....in November I thought we were a final four team...still thought that until January...then something happened. We need better d, and a guard who can penetrate and finish...we have everything else I think. I hope that Sumner can become that penetrating guard who can finish.....

[AviatorX]

Not sure I agree with the idea X stumbled down the stretch. Toward the end of the year, Xavier crushed Butler and Georgetown on the road, had two of the best performances of the season against Villanova and Marquette, and lost twice to a team that was basically a terrible matchup. I thought they had a pretty business-like dominant win over Weber St as well. I guess when you only lose 6 games all year, that's somewhat of a dip, but it wasn't like X limped into the tournament here.

[UCGRAD4X]

I agree....in November I thought we were a final four team...still thought that until January...then something happened. We need better d, and a guard who can penetrate and finish...we have everything else I think. I hope that Sumner can become that penetrating guard who can finish.....

Right. This is part of measuring the "level of disappointment" as it relates to Xavier.

With all the talk about Sumner the phenom (will he go pro this year or next?) he sure didn't seem to finish the season (not to mention a few games or particular drives to the hoop). I don't want to knock, blame or even focus on individual players, and I recognize that this is basically his freshman year and there is that "freshman wall" thing, and even though he had a redshirt year, he's rather skinny...

If we were to begin to even consider Ed at the top of Xavier's guards - I'm trying to imagine how other first year guards might have performed.

Part of the disappointment was knowing (or thinking) we had the elements to go so much further.

[scoscox]

I got over this tournament pretty quickly. I'm still disappointed, but I didn't really see this team in the Final 4, particularly with the way that they stumbled late in the season. I did expect a Sweet 16 though, with a decent shot at an Elite 8, so I'm disappointed about that. This team just lacked something, especially late in the season. My opinion is that we don't have a 'go to' guard who can get to the rim and finish when we need a bucket. Myles and Trevon in particular have not been good tournament players, and this year was no exception. We should be good again next year. Ed has the potential to be 'that guy', but he just wasn't there yet.

Really? The rest of the country was not very good this year. I thought we were clearly capable of winning it all.

As far as scrutinizing Edmond, he has had the best freshman year of any point guard X has ever had and it's not even close.

[scoscox]

Oh I'd still rather be there in the Elite Eight. But that loss had to be gut-wrenching when it happened.

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I'm sure it was. I'd still rather be Virginia right now.

[Frambo]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way Myles defended Koenig's game-tying 3. He shot it from another state and hit it. I would much rather Myles defend the way he did than "crowd" Koenig, so that Koenig could just drive easily around him, collapse Xavier's D, and find a teammate much more wide open on the perimeter from closer range.

I couldn't disagree with you more.....He wasn't in "another state" - he was at the top of the arch, dribbling like he was playing horse. It occurred live, right in front of me and after Remy got screened off...we knew the "3" was coming. Up 3 with under 20 seconds, you don't give a clean look. And as far as Koenig dribbling and dishing....he was one of the few threats to worry about.

[XUFan09]

Not sure I agree with the idea X stumbled down the stretch. Toward the end of the year, Xavier crushed Butler and Georgetown on the road, had two of the best performances of the season against Villanova and Marquette, and lost twice to a team that was basically a terrible matchup. I thought they had a pretty business-like dominant win over Weber St as well. I guess when you only lose 6 games all year, that's somewhat of a dip, but it wasn't like X limped into the tournament here.
Xavier had a backloaded schedule where they faced the toughest seven-game stretch any Xavier team has ever faced in the history of the program. They went 5-2. That's downright impressive. I think this narrative started cropping up after Xavier twice to Seton Hall. It's a single team that was playing really well and, more importantly, was a terrible matchup for Xavier. Xavier just happened to face them on the road and on a neutral court near the end of the season.

In addition, the analytical measures show no significant dip in performance. In fact, Xavier entered that 7-game stretch at 18 and finished the regular season at 14, so they actually slightly improved their numbers in that period (just not significantly). They then entered the NCAA Tournament at 15.

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[AviatorX]

Xavier had a backloaded schedule where they faced the toughest seven-game stretch any Xavier team has ever faced in the history of the program. They went 5-2. That's downright impressive. I think this narrative started cropping up after Xavier twice to Seton Hall. It's a single team that was playing really well and, more importantly, was a terrible matchup for Xavier. Xavier just happened to face them on the road and on a neutral court near the end of the season.

In addition, the analytical measures show no significant dip in performance. In fact, Xavier entered that 7-game stretch at 18 and finished the regular season at 14, so they actually slightly improved their numbers in that period (just not significantly). They then entered the NCAA Tournament at 15.

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Exactly. Couldn't agree more. This team was not struggling down the stretch. Honestly, until the last 5 minutes of the Wisconsin game, they seemingly were rolling and about to bury a top 25 team on a neutral court (think of how you were feeling about XU when Jalen went coast to coast). No question some individual parts were up and down, but as a whole there really wasn't this dip in performance that is being thrown around.

[xudash]

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. This team was not struggling down the stretch. Honestly, until the last 5 minutes of the Wisconsin game, they seemingly were rolling and about to bury a top 25 team on a neutral court (think of how you were feeling about XU when Jalen went coast to coast). No question some individual parts were up and down, but as a whole there really wasn't this dip in performance that is being thrown around.

And maybe on that note we can lock and bury this thread.

I love cheese, but if I have to keep seeing "Wisconsin" pop up on this site, I'm going to have to consider going non-dairy.

[Xville]

[QUOTE=scoscox;550695]Really? The rest of the country was not very good this year. I thought we were clearly capable of winning it all.

nm

[GoMuskies]

This team was not struggling down the stretch.


After Villanova, and other than Marquette in the Big East Tournament (which was a clinic), the team really didn't play well. Both games against Seton Hall were shit shows. The Creighton game was okay, but nothing that would blow anyone away. The Weber State game was a pretty iffy for sure. The Wisconsin game was a complete shit show other than the run you mentioned that Jalen capped off with a dunk.

It was a great season, but the team definitely did not play its best basketball in March (outside of the Marquette game).

[Xville]

Yeah im not sure what some of you are looking at that thought we were playing all that well down the stretch. There were the two Seton Hall clunkers, there was the Creighton game where we looked meh, the villanova and marquette games I will give you we looked good. The Wisconsin game...yeah we looked good for about 2-3 minutes that was capped off by the Reynolds dunk, but honestly the rest of the game we didn't look all that great. Wisconsin was a team that we absolutely bury in my opinion if we played them before January.

I know the competition seemed to get a bit tougher at the end of the year, so maybe that is why I thought we started not looking as good as we did November-January. However, just eye-test I don't think we looked all that great once conference play really got going aside from a few games even in wins.

[xubrew]

Again, Wisconsin won 11 of their last 12 regular season games, and the only reason they missed the Elite Eight was because they basically choked it away. We didn't win too many games against teams this season that were playing as well as that. Yes, we probably bury Wisconsin before January, but that's because they were playing like crap before January. When they were 9-9 they weren't that good. When they went 11-1 after being 9-9, they were pretty damn good.

Here is a list of teams that we beat this season that earned a seed better than #7th.

1. Villanova at home
2. Seton Hall at home

That's it. We hadn't played or beaten that many teams that were as good as Wisconsin at any point. I don't think we beat any teams away from home that were as good as Wisconsin, especially when you consider how well Wisconsin was playing at the time.

I'm not saying that people who are disappointed and saying we should have won are wrong. But, a very big part of why we didn't win is because the team we were playing was better than all but two of the teams we had beaten all year, and easily better than anyone that we actually managed to beat away from home. Wisconsin was good. That had SOMETHING to do with it.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Our scheduler should review your post.

[AviatorX]

Our scheduler should review your post.

To be fair, pretty much anyone would have had UC and Michigan as 7 seeds or better to start the year.

[GoMuskies]

One would have expected us to play Wichita State in Orlando, and one would have also expected them to be better than a 7 seed at the beginning of the year as well.

[xubrew]

I'm not criticizing our schedule. I'm pointing out that we lost to a good team that I feel is better than most are giving them credit for. That's all.

[GoMuskies]

Nah, they sucked.

[SemajParlor]

Yeah, Wisconsin was not a good team. Bad loss by our guys. It happens.

[Drew]

Was Wisconsin our worst loss all year? Maybe Georgetown at home was worse I guess.

[drudy23]

Was Wisconsin our worst loss all year? Maybe Georgetown at home was worse I guess.

Yeah, I would have much rather won the Georgetown game.

?????

[Drew]

Yeah, I would have much rather won the Georgetown game.

?????

I meant the quality of the opponent. I think Wisconsin was probably the worst team we lost to apart from Georgetown.

[XUMIOH12]

why is this thread even still going

[UCGRAD4X]

why is this thread even still going

...it will end when the next game starts...and maybe not even then.

[xubrew]

I meant the quality of the opponent. I think Wisconsin was probably the worst team we lost to apart from Georgetown.

They beat more top fifty teams than we did and more ranked teams than we did. Their offense was bad. Their defense was outstanding. Had Wisconsin opened the season the way that they closed it by going 11-1 and beating four ranked teams, two of which were on the road, they would have been ranked in the top ten. I don't see how anyone can say a team that beat Michigan State, and Indiana, and Maryland, and Iowa was a bad team. Maryland only lost one home game, and it was to Wisconsin.

I mean......

[paulxu]

https://youtu.be/dNJe7LmPbvU

[xu82]

I still wish this thread would just die......

[xavierj]

They beat more top fifty teams than we did and more ranked teams than we did. Their offense was bad. Their defense was outstanding. Had Wisconsin opened the season the way that they closed it by going 11-1 and beating four ranked teams, two of which were on the road, they would have been ranked in the top ten. I don't see how anyone can say a team that beat Michigan State, and Indiana, and Maryland, and Iowa was a bad team. Maryland only lost one home game, and it was to Wisconsin.

I mean......

Other than the fact that Xavier beat more ranked teams and top 50 teams than Wisconsin, you are pretty factual.

[BandAid]

https://youtu.be/dNJe7LmPbvU

I hated that movie

[xubrew]

Other than the fact that Xavier beat more ranked teams and top 50 teams than Wisconsin, you are pretty factual.

What am I missing?? The link below is the final poll. We beat Seton Hall and Villanova. They beat Michigan State, Indiana, Maryland, and Iowa.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

[xavierj]

What am I missing?? The link below is the final poll. We beat Seton Hall and Villanova. They beat Michigan State, Indiana, Maryland, and Iowa.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

You have to include when they played. Also, look at RPI as well and Xavier had more wins. Have to look at season as a whole. Butler, Providence, Dayton, USC, Michigan and Cincinnati were all ranked teams when they played. Also they were all tournament teams. Can't pick and choose. Xavier was better and should have beat Wisconsin. It was a loss that should not have happened.

[xubrew]

You have to include when they played. Also, look at RPI as well and Xavier had more wins. Have to look at season as a whole. Butler, Providence, Dayton, USC, Michigan and Cincinnati were all ranked teams when they played. Also they were all tournament teams. Can't pick and choose. Xavier was better and should have beat Wisconsin. It was a loss that should not have happened.

I am looking at the whole season. A team that's ranked in December isn't necessarily among the 25 best when you look at the whole season. f you're looking at the season as a whole, then you have look at the fact that Dayton, USC, Michigan (who Wisconsin also beat), Cincinnati, and Butler were not top 25 teams. USC and Dayton weren't even in the rankings when Xavier beat them, nor were they in the rankings at the end. For that matter, neither was Seton Hall (but they were ranked at the end).

You are right about the RPI. The site I was looking at continues to calculate it throughout the postseason, and has Syracuse in the 30s, which gives Wiscy another top fifty win. But, still.

I thought Wisconsin was good, and said they were the one team that I didn't want to play. Nearly everyone disagreed. Then we lost, and people are still disagreeing. I agree that Xavier could have won, but Wisconsin was playing better than just about anyone Xavier had beaten at any point during the year at the time we played them. I also don't think you score points for beating a team that clearly wasn't as good as their ranking at the time you beat them, and was nowhere near the rankings when the season ended. We were unranked when we beat Michigan. Should that be considered a bad loss since Michigan lost to an unranked team??

[drudy23]

Wisconsin was one of the best defensive teams we played all year, and THE best defensive rebounding team we saw all year.

We had the horses to beat them, and we had the better team...but they won.

[xubrew]

Up until about four or five years ago, the selection committee used to factor in what a team over their last ten games. If they still did that, there would be no way in hell Wisconsin would have ended up with a #7 seed. Just suppose for a second they started the way that they finished. If a team from the Big Ten were 11-2 with four wins over ranked teams including the #2 ranked team in the country, and two of those wins away from home, where is that team ranked in late December??

They arguably finished the season more strongly than Villanova began the season. Villanova didn't have four wins against ranked teams in their first thirteen games. It sucked we had to play them. I don't see why people think I'm out on a limb here. They were really good when we had to play them.

[XUFan09]

The "they were ranked when we played them" argument is always weak. The rankings, particularly mid-season, are frequently wrong.

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[xavierj]

The "they were ranked when we played them" argument is always weak. The rankings, particularly mid-season, are frequently wrong.

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I agree, however all Of those teams made the tourmey and were pretty good all year. Its not like they all shit the bed after they lost to Xavier. And if Caris Lavert was heathy, as he was against Xavier, they may have been an elite 8 team.

[xavierj]

Up until about four or five years ago, the selection committee used to factor in what a team over their last ten games. If they still did that, there would be no way in hell Wisconsin would have ended up with a #7 seed. Just suppose for a second they started the way that they finished. If a team from the Big Ten were 11-2 with four wins over ranked teams including the #2 ranked team in the country, and two of those wins away from home, where is that team ranked in late December??

They arguably finished the season more strongly than Villanova began the season. Villanova didn't have four wins against ranked teams in their first thirteen games. It sucked we had to play them. I don't see why people think I'm out on a limb here. They were really good when we had to play them.

I disagree. Xavier out scored them by 20 from the 13 minute mark of the first half until 5 minutes left in the game. Xavier should have buried them. Step on the neck when you are better. That didnt happen.

[xubrew]

I disagree. Xavier out scored them by 20 from the 13 minute mark of the first half until 5 minutes left in the game. Xavier should have buried them. Step on the neck when you are better. That didnt happen.

I'm not disagreeing with that point. I'm saying they were playing better than the vast majority of the teams we beat during the season, they were playing better than anyone we managed to beat away from home, and they were probably playing better than just about anyone else on the 9, 8, 7, 6, and probably even 5 lines. I agree we should have buried them. You can agree with that point and still think that it sucked that we had to play them in the first place. I was afraid they'd beat us, and they did, so it's kind of hard for me to change my mind about how good I think they were.