Coach of the Year

[JEHARDI]

This does deserve it's own thread, congratulations to CMack on the well deserved recognition by the U.S. Basketball writers! We are fortunate to have him. Xavier basketball has never been better and the future is bright!

Link (http://www.sportswriters.net/usbwa/news/2016/iba160309.html)

[xu82]

Congrats on a well deserved award. Assembling this level and depth of talent is impressive. Their selfless style of play is even more impressive. These guys are winners and they're fun to watch. Time to go on a RUN!

[MADXSTER]

Soo this is not the Fire Chris Mack thread. I'll keep looking.

[xu82]

Soo this is not the Fire Chris Mack thread. I'll keep looking.



You're only one L away.

[GIMMFD]

Mack hasn't had the best rosters and has still produced pretty consistent results, now that he has some great talent at his disposal he showed what good coaching can do. I'm very proud of the progression of Xavier basketball, and we will continue to get better and be consistently ranked, and I'm glad we have Mack at the helm to lead the charge. Pay the damn man.

[smileyy]

This was an interesting take by Banners on the Parkway:


I don't know that I'd call [Chris Mack] elite at this point, but he has really stepped up his game in terms of pulling the strings during game play. Creighton started the game by screening the top of the 1-3-1 and getting wide-open looks with skip passes. Mack adjusted by sending the point man under the screen to cut off the wing-to-wing pass and then switched to the man. Xavier's defense locked in after that. Mack took a lot of abuse early in his career for not being able to adjust in-game, but he has clearly grown past those struggles at this point.

http://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2016/3/5/11166652/xavier-rides-a-balanced-attack-past-a-game-creighton-squad

[QueensbridgeMF]

Mack for President

[muskiefan82]

Mack for President

I will take that at this point.

[xu82]

Mack for President

He may be the best option, but he has more important work to do!

[Cheesehead]

but yet not top coach in his own conference??!!!

What an f-ing joke.

[muskiefan82]

but yet not top coach in his own conference??!!!

What an f-ing joke.

This will fall in line with the "won the national championship, but finished second in the Big East" theme for this year.

[Masterofreality]

"He's Number 1 in the Country....but Number Three in his own League!" - with apologies to Andy Mac.

[Xaveriana]

"He's Number 1 in the Country....but Number Three in his own League!" - with apologies to Andy Mac.

Great minds think alike. From More Awards post yesterday...

This reminds me of something I heard years ago.

Chris Mack...Number 1 in the country, number 2 (or 3) in your own conference.

Absolutely weak! MOR said it "BE Bias".

[xavierj]

Yeah how Jay Wright won this is mind boggling. His team was the unanimous pick to win the league and Xavier was picked 4th and unranked. If Chris couldn't get Big east COY this season, then he never will. Who picked this? If it was the coaches than he must not be well liked. But fuck'em.

[BMoreX]

Like I said on twitter, Jay wright met expectations, Mack took his team unranked to top 5 and Willard made the tournament....

[Masterofreality]

Great minds think alike. From More Awards post yesterday...

Actually, your mind is greater than mine because you thought of it FIRST! Public reps.

[xukeith]

Honestly, how many different coach of the year awards are there?
I assume the AP has one, the Coaches have maybe 2-3 awards, and magazines each have one.
I am sure there are other programs that say, "We have the 2016 Coach of the Year".

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah how Jay Wright won this is mind boggling. His team was the unanimous pick to win the league and Xavier was picked 4th and unranked. If Chris couldn't get Big east COY this season, then he never will. Who picked this? If it was the coaches than he must not be well liked. But fuck'em.


Like I said on twitter, Jay wright met expectations, Mack took his team unranked to top 5 and Willard made the tournament....

I posted this in another thread:

I would have no problem with Mack and Wright sharing it because Wright shouldnt be punished just because his team is good every year and was supposed to be good. That is the sort of thing we used to get pissed about when in the A10 and X always got passed over for some of the awards including COY. But Willard?? In the words of Chad Johnson/Waggy...

....Child Please.

[JTG]

I believe the USBW is who awarded David West as the National POY. Someone in the group must like us.

[paulxu]

I believe the USBW is who awarded David West as the National POY. Someone in the group must like us.

DFW was Associated Press POY.

[smileyy]

Like I said on twitter, Jay wright met expectations

Doing so, with those expectations being an arguable #1 team in the country, is a hell of a job. Jay Wright doesn't deserve any disses for that, IMO. That's not to say Mack did or did not do a more impressive job. Those two can exist simultaneously.

[NOVA]

Like I said on twitter, Jay wright met expectations, Mack took his team unranked to top 5 and Willard made the tournament....

But according to almost everyone on this board, X is more talented than Nova.

[Masterofreality]

But according to almost everyone on this board, X is more talented than Nova.

As if the same bias toward your own school doesn't exist on the Nova board.

Child, please.

[NOVA]

As if the same bias toward your own school doesn't exist on the Nova board.

Child, please.



I'm just playin. But yeah most here do think that, which is fair, but this is why you cant say the award to Wright is that far off. I personally think it should have been Mack too for what its worth. But if you guys think you have much better talent, the argument gets lost, in my opinion.

[GIMMFD]

I'm just playin. But yeah most here do think that, which is fair, but this is why you cant say the award to Wright is that far off. I personally think it should have been Mack too for what its worth. But if you guys think you have much better talent, the argument gets lost, in my opinion.

Well does that still apply if the rest of the country doesn't? As said before, we were preseason 4th, and not even ranked, and Mack led us to Top 5, nobody predicted that, we knew we had talent, but I don't think a lot of people predicted us to be sitting in the top 10 for majority of the season. I know I sure didn't, I figured this was a top 15-20 team, didn't know the heights we would reach, and for that, I believe Mack deserves Coach of the Year. Not to mention his in game adjustments have been critical this year, as someone mentioned with the 1-3-1 against Creighton, and they started hitting shots and we had to change things up a bit to get things going. Just my opinion.

[muskiefan82]

COY should have been Chris Mullin just for being willing to take on that mess and then stay all the way until the end.

[bleedXblue]

Who votes for the BE COY award anyway?

[Lloyd Braun]

Who votes for the BE COY award anyway?

Big east coaches

[UCGRAD4X]

But according to almost everyone on this board, X is more talented than Nova.

And Mack deserves credit for assembling and developing that talent.

[NOVA]

And Mack deserves credit for assembling and developing that talent.

for sure he does but that guy that deserves the most credit is the guy that did the most with his talent. I'm just playing devils advocate. And i agree almost all fanboards, including Nova's, make the same arguments. i dont think giving it to the guy that won the league is outlandish as some do.

[GIMMFD]

for sure he does but that guy that deserves the most credit is the guy that did the most with his talent. I'm just playing devils advocate. And i agree almost all fanboards, including Nova's, make the same arguments. i dont think giving it to the guy that won the league is outlandish as some do.

Haven't they done that for Bill Self the last like 12 years in the Big 12? Granted when you have more conference championships than home losses you kind of deserve it..

[bleedXblue]

Big east coaches

Interesting.......they voted for Willard instead of Mack ?? Makes very little sense to me......

[muskiefan82]

for sure he does but that guy that deserves the most credit is the guy that did the most with his talent. I'm just playing devils advocate. And i agree almost all fanboards, including Nova's, make the same arguments. i dont think giving it to the guy that won the league is outlandish as some do.

So JTIII should get the anti-coach of the year award?

[D-West & PO-Z]

for sure he does but that guy that deserves the most credit is the guy that did the most with his talent. I'm just playing devils advocate. And i agree almost all fanboards, including Nova's, make the same arguments. i dont think giving it to the guy that won the league is outlandish as some do.

I for one have no problem with Wright being co-COY but they got the other guy wrong, should have been Mack not Willard.

[Roach]

for sure he does but that guy that deserves the most credit is the guy that did the most with his talent. I'm just playing devils advocate. And i agree almost all fanboards, including Nova's, make the same arguments. i dont think giving it to the guy that won the league is outlandish as some do.

From what I've seen, COY awards are determined by one or more of the following criteria:

1) Coach of the best team/championship winner;
2) Coach of the team that most defied expectations;
3) Coach of the team perceived to have achieved the most success relative to available talent; and
4) Coach who unexpectedly led a team out of mediocrity or worse.

Ultimately, I think the COY award comes down to which of these 4 criteria creates the biggest "Wow!" factor among the voters, and depending on whether the award is for a national COY or a conference COY, the perceptions of these criteria can change considerably. In other words, I think coaches outside of the Big East would be far more surprised by a top 5 Xavier team than coaches in the Big East. Thus, national coaches would be more inclined to believe that Xavier defied expectations. Within the Big East, however, given Xavier's recent track record and performance in the league 2 years in, it wouldn't be terribly surprising that X finished top 2 in the league, a stone's throw away from top dog, with a top 5 ranking nationally. Big East coaches are already more familiar with Xavier's strength, and familiarity breeds contempt, especially in sports.

Similarly, for Seton Hall, expectations were much lower among league coaches than they were for X, and the Pirates have been dreadful for a number of years, not making the tournament since 2006. In this respect, league coaches are certainly inclined to view Willard as having both defied expectations and lifted the Pirates out of mediocrity. They're more familiar with how poorly they've performed in recent years. Nationally, however, Seton Hall has had name recognition for a long, long time, dating back to the late 70s, which is what likely drives the perceptions and expectations of coaches outside the league, who are less acutely aware of how much the program has floundered lately. As such, they're not likely to be as surprised by Seton Hall's improvement, or perceive it so much as an outhouse-to-penthouse coaching job, as league coaches. As an example, suppose that Northwestern had had a great season and were headed to the NCAA tournament (the only BCS conference school never to have danced), Chris Collins would be far more likely to win a national COY award than Willard, even if Seton Hall's improvement were factually more substantial than Northwestern's.

I think this difference in perception between league and national coaches explains why BE coaches could conclude that Willard has done a better job than Mack. Granted, I don't agree with them ... at all ... but I do believe that this explains their thinking. I really don't think it's a conscious bias.

[XUFan09]

Interesting.......they voted for Willard instead of Mack ?? Makes very little sense to me......
I feel like Willard was a beneficiary or lowered expectations that he himself established last season.

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[xavierj]

for sure he does but that guy that deserves the most credit is the guy that did the most with his talent. I'm just playing devils advocate. And i agree almost all fanboards, including Nova's, make the same arguments. i dont think giving it to the guy that won the league is outlandish as some do.

I think most are ok with Jay Wright, but believe Chris should have been the guy ahead of Willard. We are just use to the A10, where we were usually the best team and never had the COY.

[xu82]

I feel like Willard was a beneficiary or lowered expectations that he himself established last season.

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That's a helluva plan if you can pull it off.

[bobbiemcgee]

maybe they heard Mack was a douche @ X.

[XUFan09]

That's a helluva plan if you can pull it off.
Ha!

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[XUFan09]

maybe they heard Mack was a douche @ X.
Most definitely.

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[NOVA]

I think most are ok with Jay Wright, but believe Chris should have been the guy ahead of Willard. We are just use to the A10, where we were usually the best team and never had the COY.

I think you can make an argument for all 3 but as I said, may have given it to mack.I do think x was underrated in the preseason poll. Funny you say that about the A10. Nova has a little bit of that in Big 5. Jay is 84-12 in Big 5 since he has become coach; we have dominated yet we rarely iof ever get a POY. This year I am certain it will be Bembry.

[mid major]

That's a helluva plan if you can pull it off.

Somehow, I don't think this plan would work on Victory Parkway.

[bobbiemcgee]

Mack won his third COY from CBS Sports.

[XUMIOH12]

Mack won his third COY from CBS Sports.

Fire Mack!

[Olsingledigit]

Fire Mack!
Where are all the naysayers from years gone by?

[UCGRAD4X]

Where are all the naysayers from years gone by?

So, you have a problem with the naysayers.

I guess that makes you a nay-nay-sayer!

I'm just say(er)ing.

[markchal]

Where are all the naysayers from years gone by?

While I've never been a naysayer (big fan of Mack), I do think he got out-coached by a guy coaching in his second ever NCAA tournament game.

[X-band '01]

While I've never been a naysayer (big fan of Mack), I do think he got out-coached by a guy coaching in his second ever NCAA tournament game.

Yep - Pete Gillen was clearly outcoached by Steve Fisher (his first-ever game as a head coach) in 1989 as well.

You make it seem as if Wisconsin just pulled someone off the street to coach the Badgers in December as they were going off the rails.

[MauriceX]

So, you have a problem with the naysayers.

I guess that makes you a nay-nay-sayer!

I'm just say(er)ing.

Watch me whip! Watch me nay-nay-say!

[muskiefan82]

Watch me whip! Watch me nay-nay-say!

NOW it is the offseason.

[markchal]

Yep - Pete Gillen was clearly outcoached by Steve Fisher (his first-ever game as a head coach) in 1989 as well.

You make it seem as if Wisconsin just pulled someone off the street to coach the Badgers in December as they were going off the rails.

Yeah, I was trying (and failing, I suppose) to make the point that coaching is a touch overrated on a game-to-game basis. COY and a past COY both going out in the first weekend, with veteran, top-10 teams.

[Masterofreality]

While I've never been a naysayer (big fan of Mack), I do think he got out-coached by a guy coaching in his second ever NCAA tournament game.

If there is one word I hate in the English...or any other language...it is "outcoached". WTF does that word even mean?
What? Because one guy stood on his head for 30 seconds, made 2 three pointers, and his team that played a very good game won, means that one coach somehow had a better magic formula than the other? Or because one team that loses missed too many free throws, that the coach of the winning team conjured up a better voo doo strategy than the coach who lost?

Or is it just a convenient word that once one says or types it that it is easy criticsm with no requirement to back it up?

That word, that has no real definition of meaning, has to go,

[JEHARDI]

While I've never been a naysayer (big fan of Mack), I do think he got out-coached by a guy coaching in his second ever NCAA tournament game.

How did he get out- coached?

[XUFan09]

Xavier built an 8-point lead on a pretty good team who was playing really well. They then got mostly good looks down the stretch (hey, coaching!), but they missed them.

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[xu82]

If there is one word I hate in the English...or any other language...it is "outcoached". WTF does that word even mean?


I'm a Bills fan with Clown Rex in charge. PM me if I can help to clear anything up.

Ohh, Mack? That's silly stuff. For a lot of reasons. Did not go optimally of course, and we could/should have won, but sometimes stuff happens.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Mack finished 2nd in AP Coach of the Year voting (to Bill Self).

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/kansas-bill-self-wins-ap-coach-year

[JTG]

Mack finished 2nd in AP Coach of the Year voting (to Bill Self).

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/kansas-bill-self-wins-ap-coach-year

A blind squirrel could have coached the talent Kansas had. Come to think of it, I think Self has what looks like a blind squirrel resting on top of his head.

[Cheesehead]

A blind squirrel could have coached the talent Kansas had. Come to think of it, I think Self has what looks like a blind squirrel resting on top of his head.

Do you think he honestly believes no one notices the fact that his hair never changes in length or color (because it's a rug)? It's as bad as Carl Ravech on ESPN.

[JTG]

Do you think he honestly believes no one notices the fact that his hair never changes in length or color (because it's a rug)? It's as bad as Carl Ravech on ESPN.

I think Ravech actually has a hair helmet.

[XUMIOH12]

A blind squirrel could have coached the talent Kansas had. Come to think of it, I think Self has what looks like a blind squirrel resting on top of his head.

maybe if Mack had one of those he would have won the award.

[SemajParlor]

Stop it. Self is a great coach.

[GoMuskies]

Stop it. Self is a great coach.

With a blind squirrel on his head. These two things are not mutually exclusive.

[SemajParlor]

With a blind squirrel on his head. These two things are not mutually exclusive.

Fair is fair.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I just don't understand how coaches from power 5 schools who win all the time get these awards. I mean Kansas should have been good. Did they lose all their players to the plague and Self fed the scabs with the squirrel on his head? I think a coach at a school that never wins and all of a sudden does win should be COY. Self isn't COY IMHO

[drudy23]

Who cares...we have to do what Nova has done to get the elite respect. We're not there.

But...we can be Duke part 2 in 5-10 years.

[scoscox]

I just don't understand how coaches from power 5 schools who win all the time get these awards. I mean Kansas should have been good. Did they lose all their players to the plague and Self fed the scabs with the squirrel on his head? I think a coach at a school that never wins and all of a sudden does win should be COY. Self isn't COY IMHO

I agree. There are plenty of teams every year that have great unexpected seasons so you'd think it'd be easy to spread the love with this award.

[scoscox]

Who cares...we have to do what Nova has done to get the elite respect. We're not there.

But...we can be Duke part 2 in 5-10 years.

If we are able to keep improving I've always seen Duke as an example of what X could be basketball-wise as well. We're already being hated on a surprisingly high level as well.

[Juice]

If we are able to keep improving I've always seen Duke as an example of what X could be basketball-wise as well. We're already being hated on a surprisingly high level as well.

Let's be real. X can never be Duke. X doesn't have the conference money or teams nor the money from the school to support it like Duke does their program. Duke pays Coach K around 9 million dollars. X can't even pay Mack 2. I'd be happy if we ever got to Villanova status.

[scoscox]

Let's be real. X can never be Duke. X doesn't have the conference money or teams nor the money from the school to support it like Duke does their program. Duke pays Coach K around 9 million dollars. X can't even pay Mack 2. I'd be happy if we ever got to Villanova status.

Winning brings in a lot of money. Program feeds the school, school feeds the program and it continues exponentially. It's possible. Obviously we'd have to win a national title or 3 before it happens, but I like the similarities of small, private school with great academic success. And, like I said, we're pretty hated by a lot of fanbases already.

[XUFan09]

I would wager that Xavier's endowment will never come close to matching Duke's. The research dollars going through that school are insane too (which frees up more money for athletics).

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[scoscox]

I would wager that Xavier's endowment will never come close to matching Duke's. The research dollars going through that school are insane too (which frees up more money for athletics).

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Win, get money, improve the school, school improves program. It could happen. The changes that Xavier has already undergone through its success without even having reached a final four yet have been plenty remarkable.

[LA Muskie]

Obviously we'd have to win a national title or 3 before it happens, but I like the similarities of small, private school with great academic success.

I believe someone else said it, but Nova is a much more realistic model right now. Duke is in a completely different stratosphere athletically, academically, and financially.

[bobbiemcgee]

Jay Wright wins Naismith. Nice for BE.

[vee4xu]

I would wager that Xavier's endowment will never come close to matching Duke's. The research dollars going through that school are insane too (which frees up more money for athletics).

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Given that Youngstown State's endowment is larger than Xavier's, I'd say that your's is a safe assumption regarding Duke.

[paulxu]

Admit confusion on Coach of the Year awards.
If I understand, the Naismith is given by the Atlanta Tip Off club, which is probably a group of fans.

I was impressed Mack came in second in the AP poll (65 voters I think), and first in the Basketball Writers poll (900 writers), and the first Xavier coach to ever win a national coach of the year award.

[GoMuskies]

Duke is in a completely different stratosphere athletically, academically, and financially.

Per capita d-bagily.

[XUFan09]

Given that Youngstown State's endowment is larger than Xavier's, I'd say that your's is a safe assumption regarding Duke.

Ha, I'm going to use that comparison in the future!

[XUFan09]

Win, get money, improve the school, school improves program. It could happen. The changes that Xavier has already undergone through its success without even having reached a final four yet have been plenty remarkable.

What are you, a 90's feel-good movie? ;-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuwMvesrw7w


- Xavier will never be a premier research institution. They aren't even set up that way, with few graduate programs and a focus on undergraduate education. I actually chose Xavier in part because of that undergraduate focus, as it can be beneficial to one's education, but that doesn't translate to mega-dollars for the institution.
- Xavier will never have a med school and they missed their chance on a law school (not that the nation needs more of those).
- Duke is in a different stratosphere academically. Xavier could improve its academic standards (and is trying to), but that is a massive gulf that is often self-fulfilling in terms of who chooses to teach there and who chooses to go to school there.
- Related to that self-fulfilling aspect, Duke is also one of THE schools south of the Mason-Dixon Line that strong high school students from the Northeast will attend. Xavier has no equivalent population to draw upon.
- It probably doesn't help Xavier that it is a Catholic institution located relatively close to Notre Dame, which is considered THE Catholic institution in the U.S. That close proximity doesn't do it any favors. At best, Xavier maxes out at second-tier among its own cohort and it probably wouldn't even be considered second tier there right now.

This massive discrepancy in academics and research leads to a huge gap in funds before even considering athletics. At Xavier, basketball profits get siphoned off to other parts of the university frequently. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Xavier is first and foremost an educational institution (I know, crazy!), so basketball exists in large part to serve that primary purpose. Neglecting other areas of the university (or other athletic programs) to put a few more dollars in the basketball program would be a net negative, and it's a tricky balance that has to be constantly evaluated.

Xavier has made massive improvements in the last few decades, going from a commuter school to one of the better "Regional Universities (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities)" in the Midwest. That's pretty damn good, but being that type of institution places a ceiling on stature and money. Also, notice in that link who is ranked number 1 in the East: Villanova. That is a far better goal than some place like Duke (or Notre Dame or even fellow Jesuit school Georgetown). Trying to be like Duke would be akin to a 6'2" guy trying to be a center. It would be better to be the best guard he can be than to try to be something he's not.

[paulxu]

Xavier has no equivalent population to draw upon.

Whoa Nellie. Some of us actually came from South of the Mason-Dixon line to go to Xavier.

Also, I have a plan to close the gap with Duke. They are where they are, and Richmond for example is where it is, because some VERY well-to-do families endowed the crap out of them. I don't think Bill Gates graduated from any college/university. So...my plan is to get him to adopt the Muskies. It might work!

[XUFan09]

Whoa Nellie. Some of us actually came from South of the Mason-Dixon line to go to Xavier.

Also, I have a plan to close the gap with Duke. They are where they are, and Richmond for example is where it is, because some VERY well-to-do families endowed the crap out of them. I don't think Bill Gates graduated from any college/university. So...my plan is to get him to adopt the Muskies. It might work!

Ha, perfect! Considering University of Richmond, they might be the #1 snobby/preppy school of the Mid-Atlantic (which is saying something, considering their neighbors). They are a really good liberal arts institution too, but it definitely helps that rich people send their kids there. It's essentially conspicuous consumption on the college level. I have interacted with a number of U of R students, and a good portion are great, but a lot of them are them are just rich snobs (and some of the ones I liked are just more agreeable rich snobs). The rich kids graduate, follow in their parents' footsteps or follow down a path perfectly set up for them by their well-connected parents, and then they send a lot of money back to their alma mater.

[paulxu]

UR was helped with the Robins family money (drugs).
Some poor people go there...my daughter for example is a UR graduate.
Hopefully we're not snobs.
Although I admit to being a snob about the Muskies...and probably some other stuff.

Edit: also I have had some great times in Richmond over the years. Extra Billy's, the North Pole (gone now) and some places on the hill overlooking the city.

[XUFan09]

UR was helped with the Robins family money (drugs).
Some poor people go there...my daughter for example is a UR graduate.
Hopefully we're not snobs.
Although I admit to being a snob about the Muskies...and probably some other stuff.

Edit: also I have had some great times in Richmond over the years. Extra Billy's, the North Pole (gone now) and some places on the hill overlooking the city.
Yeah, you're daughter would probably have been one of the ones I liked. There is a big divide there, expressed by even current students. One characterized it as the difference between people who are excited to be at UR and people excited to be seen at UR. My brother-in-law and his friends that I've met in Richmond would have been part of the former group when they were there.

You're right, though, that the Robins family has really helped. I shouldn't understate by omission the impact of getting a really wealthy family all in on backing a school.

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[xudash]

I feel compelled to dive in here.

Insofar as this kind of sounds like a benchmarking exercise, let's drop Duke out of the discussion for the reasons already cited, though I like the idea of aiming high when it comes to setting goals. X is not nor will it become nor does it have any intentions of becoming a research university.

It will most likely not pursue any form of professional school. As noted, the ship sailed on acquiring Chase Law School in the 70's when that opportunity presented itself. Mulligan wasn't smart enough to figure that one out and he put himself into a position of not having the funding to pull it off anyway.

Is all that a negative for Xavier? Um, no.

Is Villanova more similar to what X is driving to become? I'd respond with a "definitely" to that question.

Putting some of this into a little tighter perspective, Xavier has been playing catch-up since the 70's. Consider the physical plant today as compared to what it was when Xavier still had a rotting football stadium with which to deal at a time when it decided to no longer have a football team. Real change and real growth didn't even begin to occur until Father Hoff arrived. Frankly, even I've lost track of it now, but X has put about $300 million into capital improvements since Father Hoff's arrival there.

That's important to consider, because, save for THE remaining, statement-making project (I believe you all know what that's about) that is in the works now, direct investment by the University in capital projects will start slowing down in a big way. I'm not counting the 7-year, $25 million Cintas Center improvement project here, nor am I addressing what may become of the Schmidt/O'Connor complex on the other side of campus that would fall under Greg Christopher's plans for the Athletic Department.

What all this means is that intergalactic headquarters is absolutely heading in the direction of generating programmatic funding and increasing the endowment. You may recall last summer's article about Xavier's largest fundraising outcome ever - - $100 million through primarily 3 baseline gifts. The endowment will be over $200 million soon enough (last official posting of it was in the mid 150's).

Is Nova a logical target? Yep. Is that a great place to be for a Jesuit school that emphasizes education? Oh, yes.

If Xavier shifted from 3rd gear to 4th gear under Hoff and gained speed under Father Graham, it has since shifted into 5th gear under Graham since joining the Big East and having completed the Hoff Quad, Fenwick Place, the Alter renovation (i.e. done for $19 million and IN CASH), etc. The strategic decisions that are being made will establish X very well for a future that otherwise is changing rapidly for higher education in the U.S.

I love where X is headed. Otherwise, I'm fairly certain that, had all that has transpired since the 70's hadn't done so this successfully, Xavier would probably have to fold tent within a decade.

[Masterofreality]

The one thing that Father Graham WOULD love to have, however, is not a law or medical school. He told me directly that he would love to have an ENGINEERING School. There are numerous reasons for that, but one of which is that an Engineering School immediately puts you on the list of Asian students who want to come to the US for their education...and they will almost always pay full, sticker price tuition.

If there is a Fat Cat out there who has $10-$20 million lying around who would like to endow an Engineering School, pick up the phone and dial (513) 745-3000 and ask for Father Graham. I'm sure they would put you right through.

[XUFan09]

I feel compelled to dive in here.

Insofar as this kind of sounds like a benchmarking exercise, let's drop Duke out of the discussion for the reasons already cited, though I like the idea of aiming high when it comes to setting goals. X is not nor will it become nor does it have any intentions of becoming a research university.

It will most likely not pursue any form of professional school. As noted, the ship sailed on acquiring Chase Law School in the 70's when that opportunity presented itself. Mulligan wasn't smart enough to figure that one out and he put himself into a position of not having the funding to pull it off anyway.

Is all that a negative for Xavier? Um, no.

Is Villanova more similar to what X is driving to become? I'd respond with a "definitely" to that question.

Putting some of this into a little tighter perspective, Xavier has been playing catch-up since the 70's. Consider the physical plant today as compared to what it was when Xavier still had a rotting football stadium with which to deal at a time when it decided to no longer have a football team. Real change and real growth didn't even begin to occur until Father Hoff arrived. Frankly, even I've lost track of it now, but X has put about $300 million into capital improvements since Father Hoff's arrival there.

That's important to consider, because, save for THE remaining, statement-making project (I believe you all know what that's about) that is in the works now, direct investment by the University in capital projects will start slowing down in a big way. I'm not counting the 7-year, $25 million Cintas Center improvement project here, nor am I addressing what may become of the Schmidt/O'Connor complex on the other side of campus that would fall under Greg Christopher's plans for the Athletic Department.

What all this means is that intergalactic headquarters is absolutely heading in the direction of generating programmatic funding and increasing the endowment. You may recall last summer's article about Xavier's largest fundraising outcome ever - - $100 million through primarily 3 baseline gifts. The endowment will be over $200 million soon enough (last official posting of it was in the mid 150's).

Is Nova a logical target? Yep. Is that a great place to be for a Jesuit school that emphasizes education? Oh, yes.

If Xavier shifted from 3rd gear to 4th gear under Hoff and gained speed under Father Graham, it has since shifted into 5th gear under Graham since joining the Big East and having completed the Hoff Quad, Fenwick Place, the Alter renovation (i.e. done for $19 million and IN CASH), etc. The strategic decisions that are being made will establish X very well for a future that otherwise is changing rapidly for higher education in the U.S.

I love where X is headed. Otherwise, I'm fairly certain that, had all that has transpired since the 70's hadn't done so this successfully, Xavier would probably have to fold tent within a decade.

Excellent post. I was waiting for you to weigh in on this (I knew it was just a matter of time).

As for the bolded part, I just wanted to re-emphasize that I like the fact that Xavier isn't a research university nor is it going to try to be. There are positives and negatives of becoming one. A lot of the negatives center around the undergraduate learning experience.

For a personal example, I just accepted a graduate teaching fellowship offer at VCU for statistics (starting the Master's program in the fall). This means that in the next year, I will be serving first as a TA (read: grading all the work and being more accessible than the professor for office hours) and then in the spring I will be teaching my own class. Now, I have taught at the college level (and multiple other levels) and frankly, I have a knack for it, no matter the subject. Still, I have not mastered the subject I will teach nearly to the extent that a professor at VCU has. There is a marked drop-off in teaching quality because of that, a drop-off that Xavier doesn't experience becasue they hire almost all PhDs with extensive teaching experience and even those without PhDs at least have already attained their Master's and have teaching experience. Graduate students don't teach all the classes at research universities, but they do teach a lot of them while professors frequently focus on graduate classes and their own research.

[XUFan09]

The one thing that Father Graham WOULD love to have, however, is not a law or medical school. He told me directly that he would love to have an ENGINEERING School. There are numerous reasons for that, but one of which is that an Engineering School immediately puts you on the list of Asian students who want to come to the US for their education...and they will almost always pay full, sticker price tuition.

If there is a Fat Cat out there who has $10-$20 million lying around who would like to endow an Engineering School, pick up the phone and dial (513) 745-3000 and ask for Father Graham. I'm sure they would put you right through.
That would be a nice addition. It's the one major absence among undergraduate programs.

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[xudash]

The one thing that Father Graham WOULD love to have, however, is not a law or medical school. He told me directly that he would love to have an ENGINEERING School. There are numerous reasons for that, but one of which is that an Engineering School immediately puts you on the list of Asian students who want to come to the US for their education...and they will almost always pay full, sticker price tuition.

If there is a Fat Cat out there who has $10-$20 million lying around who would like to endow an Engineering School, pick up the phone and dial (513) 745-3000 and ask for Father Graham. I'm sure they would put you right through.

Good point.

Not exactly what you're talking about here, but we'll see how the Center For Innovation evolves from here. It's a very interesting play, especially given the evolving Cincinnati start-up/entrepreneurial community.

[xudash]

Excellent post. I was waiting for you to weigh in on this (I knew it was just a matter of time).

As for the bolded part, I just wanted to re-emphasize that I like the fact that Xavier isn't a research university nor is it going to try to be. There are positives and negatives of becoming one. A lot of the negatives center around the undergraduate learning experience.

For a personal example, I just accepted a graduate teaching fellowship offer at VCU for statistics (starting the Master's program in the fall). This means that in the next year, I will be serving first as a TA (read: grading all the work and being more accessible than the professor for office hours) and then in the spring I will be teaching my own class. Now, I have taught at the college level (and multiple other levels) and frankly, I have a knack for it, no matter the subject. Still, I have not mastered the subject I will teach nearly to the extent that a professor at VCU has. There is a marked drop-off in teaching quality because of that, a drop-off that Xavier doesn't experience becasue they hire almost all PhDs with extensive teaching experience and even those without PhDs at least have already attained their Master's and have teaching experience. Graduate students don't teach all the classes at research universities, but they do teach a lot of them while professors frequently focus on graduate classes and their own research.

Firstly and most importantly, best of luck to you at VCU.

Otherwise, you are spot on about the large research universities. As is the case with any school, anywhere, it's what the individual student puts into their education that determines how effective it is in the long run, but there is no doubt that some number of classes are going to be taken with about 700 of your closest friends in a large lecture hall through some kind of PowerPoint delivered by (hopefully) a knowledgeable and interesting GA.

[LA Muskie]

- It probably doesn't help Xavier that it is a Catholic institution located relatively close to Notre Dame, which is considered THE Catholic institution in the U.S. That close proximity doesn't do it any favors. At best, Xavier maxes out at second-tier among its own cohort and it probably wouldn't even be considered second tier there right now.


I agreed with most of your post. Except for this. ND may be considered THE Catholic institution in the US for athletics, but academically that distinction is, always has been, and almost certainly will remain Georgetown's.

[LA Muskie]

The one thing that Father Graham WOULD love to have, however, is not a law or medical school. He told me directly that he would love to have an ENGINEERING School.

I have heard this too. The problem is that engineering schools are outrageously expensive to operate. And we don't have any existing infrastructure for it.

[XUFan09]

I agreed with most of your post. Except for this. ND may be considered THE Catholic institution in the US for athletics, but academically that distinction is, always has been, and almost certainly will remain Georgetown's.
Sorry, I was more thinking in terms of perception. That perception makes Xavier's recruiting job harder, being relatively nearby.

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[XUFan09]

Firstly and most importantly, best of luck to you at VCU.

Otherwise, you are spot on about the large research universities. As is the case with any school, anywhere, it's what the individual student puts into their education that determines how effective it is in the long run, but there is no doubt that some number of classes are going to be taken with about 700 of your closest friends in a large lecture hall through some kind of PowerPoint delivered by (hopefully) a knowledgeable and interesting GA.

Thanks!

I will admit that it's not all bad for undergrads at research institutions. You might get to take a class with a professor that's renown in his/her field (though this can happen to a lesser extent at places like Xavier too), and good undergraduate research opportunities are more common.

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[Masterofreality]

Firstly and most importantly, best of luck to you at VCU.
.

Agree...although VCU should NEVER be in the Big East, 09! :lol:

[XUGRAD80]

Well, we have Bill Murry going for us......which is nice. :wave:

[XUFan09]

Agree...although VCU should NEVER be in the Big East, 09! :lol:
Ha, I agree, but I give respect to a top 50 program. They wouldn't be the worst addition, but the best addition would be...no one.

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[GIMMFD]

Thanks!

I will admit that it's not all bad for undergrads at research institutions. You might get to take a class with a professor that's renown in his/her field (though this can happen to a lesser extent at places like Xavier too), and good undergraduate research opportunities are more common.

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The thing is, it requires a lot of funding, and space to build. As said before, we'll never have a medical school, why? We simply don't have the space or resources or a hospital affiliation like UC does in order to get an actual good school rolling, we have the best Pre-Med undergrads in the country (X puts 80% of people that apply to medical school in, while the national average is like 43% or something) Engineering school is very expensive as well, not sure where we could fit that on campus, and even though with the addition of an engineering school we would likely increase students by an outrageous percent, I don't see how we can expand past the undergraduate centered school we are.

[XUFan09]

The thing is, it requires a lot of funding, and space to build. As said before, we'll never have a medical school, why? We simply don't have the space or resources or a hospital affiliation like UC does in order to get an actual good school rolling, we have the best Pre-Med undergrads in the country (X puts 80% of people that apply to medical school in, while the national average is like 43% or something) Engineering school is very expensive as well, not sure where we could fit that on campus, and even though with the addition of an engineering school we would likely increase students by an outrageous percent, I don't see how we can expand past the undergraduate centered school we are.
To clarify on the med school acceptance rate, the pre-med program controls the process so only those likely to be accepted will apply. They simply will deny a program letter of recommendation to those they deem unlikely to get accepted, even if the students in question would have had a minor chance (so we're not just talking crappy students). At that point, there is no point in trying to apply or even in taking the MCAT (if a person was warned early enough), as that minor chance of acceptance severely diminishes without the program stamp of approval. This method of exclusion is probably on average for the best, giving students a reality check before they expend money and effort on studying for the MCAT and applying to med schools, but it does serve to inflate the acceptance rate some and some who just wanted the chance at the least are pushed out.

It's a really good program, but that acceptance rate needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

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