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Murph85
02-07-2016, 10:15 AM
It usually goes unsaid but i thought the Marquette fans were pretty classy yesterday. Perhaps too many negative experiences with VD fans as well as Huggins dies hards make me take notice but either way I could have stomached the loss a little better yesterday. I hope others had a similar experience.

And again, playing Marquette or Georgetown ... So much better than Fordham, Bonaventure, ....

bleedXblue
02-07-2016, 10:43 AM
I've been impressed with pretty much all of our Big East opponents fans. I think there's a mutual respect for one another for the most part. LOVE this league!

XU 87
02-07-2016, 12:26 PM
I was in Philly for the 'Nova game and thought their fans were very friendly.

Masterofreality
02-07-2016, 12:31 PM
This the difference between a "good conference" and schlock where you get dooshes like VDump fans.
Big East forever....Cryers never.

And I'll be interested to see what kind of reception I'll get in Omaha this week. Won't be very many of us X fans there Tuesday night.

xu82
02-07-2016, 12:37 PM
I was in Philly for the 'Nova game and thought their fans were very friendly.

Umm, I'm pretty friendly too, when we're up 30. (But I get your point.)

XU 87
02-07-2016, 12:43 PM
Umm, I'm pretty friendly too, when we're up 30. (But I get your point.)

I should then add- they were very friendly before the game even started.

xu82
02-07-2016, 12:53 PM
I should then add- they were very friendly before the game even started.

I was just kidding (except for the part where I'm very friendly in a big win!).

OTRMUSKIE
02-07-2016, 02:02 PM
It's hard to imagine how we were in the A-10. Yes it was a good conf for us at the time but I finally understand why Mick belittled the conf. I mean VD just beat GMason by 30 on the road. How can you tell how good you are when you beat awful teams? Love the Beast and screw the A-10!

Muskie1000
02-07-2016, 03:15 PM
I agree with the classy fans. I've run into the opposition on the way to and from games and everyone is very respectful. I used to dread the Dayton games just because of having to deal with their fans and no way would I attend them at their place. If I had the opportunity I would go to another Big East teams place in a second.

LA Muskie
02-07-2016, 03:49 PM
The Dayton thing must be localized. We used to do joint XU/Dayton viewings out here all the time and they were wonderful. Then again, that kind of event might be self-selecting.


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Muskie
02-07-2016, 04:46 PM
When I was at the Marquette game in Milwaukee the fans were very nice as well. They save their venom for people wearing Wisconsin stuff.


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toledodan
02-07-2016, 05:26 PM
This the difference between a "good conference" and schlock where you get dooshes like VDump fans.
Big East forever....Cryers never.

And I'll be interested to see what kind of reception I'll get in Omaha this week. Won't be very many of us X fans there Tuesday night.

i will be there. should be behind the xavier bench

toledodan
02-07-2016, 05:28 PM
The Dayton thing must be localized. We used to do joint XU/Dayton viewings out here all the time and they were wonderful. Then again, that kind of event might be self-selecting.


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watch parties seem a bit different

LA Muskie
02-07-2016, 05:31 PM
watch parties seem a bit different

Yeah I belatedly appreciated that. Hence my last sentence of that post.


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toledodan
02-07-2016, 05:35 PM
Yeah I belatedly appreciated that. Hence my last sentence of that post.


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yep

XUFan09
02-07-2016, 05:37 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Dayton fans outside of southwestern Ohio are on average much better than their local counterparts.

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toledodan
02-07-2016, 05:39 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Dayton fans outside of southwestern Ohio are on average much better than their local counterparts.

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ones here in kansas city are. however i'm not making watermellon jokes either lol

Mel Cooley XU'81
02-07-2016, 06:32 PM
Re Nova fans:


I should then add- they were very friendly before the game even started.

They were so friendly at the Big East Tourney that now Coco Cooley (HS Junior) wants to go to Nova!

And I'd add, a group bought me a beer while I was Just Standing Around Being "Mel" at MSG.

Smart, friendly . . . Nova fans.

Masterofreality
02-07-2016, 07:03 PM
I've had nothing but good experiences at St. John's (MSG), Villanova, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette and DePaul. Butler? Hmmmmm. Problematic. We'll see about Creighton. Gotta get to Seton Hall.

xubrew
02-07-2016, 07:29 PM
It's hard to imagine how we were in the A-10. Yes it was a good conf for us at the time but I finally understand why Mick belittled the conf. I mean VD just beat GMason by 30 on the road. How can you tell how good you are when you beat awful teams? Love the Beast and screw the A-10!

I understand why Cronin said it too. It's because he's an idiot. He makes this comment about the A10 and CUSA, yet he had lost to every A10 and CUSA team he had played that season.

I guess I admire the candidness, but I also think that it's pretty bad form for a coach to slam a conference that he's got nothing to do with, especially if they avoid that conference and/or lose to teams in that conference whenever they do play them. Krzyzewski blasted the A10 a few years back when they got six bids. He then proceeded to lose to Mercer in the NCAA Tournament not even a week later.

To me, it's as simple as this. If you feel a team and/or league is getting undue credit that you yourself should be getting, then go out and beat them. Otherwise, STFU. If you truly are better than them, then beating them shouldn't be difficult, and it's not like teams in the A10 wouldn't want to schedule Duke or Cincinnati on equal terms.

X-band '01
02-07-2016, 08:18 PM
I understand why Cronin said it too. It's because he's an idiot. He makes this comment about the A10 and CUSA, yet he had lost to every A10 and CUSA team he had played that season.

I guess I admire the candidness, but I also think that it's pretty bad form for a coach to slam a conference that he's got nothing to do with, especially if they avoid that conference and/or lose to teams in that conference whenever they do play them. Krzyzewski blasted the A10 a few years back when they got six bids. He then proceeded to lose to Mercer in the NCAA Tournament not even a week later.

To me, it's as simple as this. If you feel a team and/or league is getting undue credit that you yourself should be getting, then go out and beat them. Otherwise, STFU. If you truly are better than them, then beating them shouldn't be difficult, and it's not like teams in the A10 wouldn't want to schedule Duke or Cincinnati on equal terms.

Also see Chris Mack, 2014. He has since learned his lesson.

paulxu
02-07-2016, 11:43 PM
I understand why Cronin said it too. It's because he's an idiot.

That does present some challenges.

OTRMUSKIE
02-08-2016, 01:10 AM
I'm sorry but the A-10 is crap. They have a few good teams that can win a few games in the dance but that's it. Nobody from that conference is cutting down the nets. Yeah I'm big timing that league and I don't care. VD and VCU are their best teams and neither one will be playing the second weekend. VD is overrated and will lose first game of the dance. Pick,who is ever playing them bc it will be the upset pick favorite.

Xpectations
02-08-2016, 07:05 AM
The A-10 is what it has pretty much always been--comfortably below the Big 6 conferences in the KenPom rankings (the major football conferences + the Big East (pre- or post-realignment).

Only once in the KenPom ranking era (15 seasons, counting this season) did the A-10 ever finish above any of those 6 conferences, which was 2012 (while X was still in the A-10), when it finished above the Pac-10.

Based on standings today, the New Big East has been ranked above 6 of the five major football conferences in its 3 seasons of existence--finishing 5th, 3rd and it's currently 4th.

Milhouse
02-08-2016, 08:07 AM
And I believe 2012 was the year where the team that won the Pac12 outright didn't make the dance...it was a 1 bid conference.

xubrew
02-08-2016, 08:49 AM
I'm sorry but the A-10 is crap. They have a few good teams that can win a few games in the dance but that's it. Nobody from that conference is cutting down the nets. Yeah I'm big timing that league and I don't care. VD and VCU are their best teams and neither one will be playing the second weekend. VD is overrated and will lose first game of the dance. Pick,who is ever playing them bc it will be the upset pick favorite.

There's a big difference between a fan on a message board saying this, and a coach saying this AFTER he's lost to multiple teams from the A10. Or, a coach who says something like this, but who won't play them on equal terms, and then goes out and loses to a worse team from a worse conference not even a week later.

Mick Cronin looked absolutely ridiculous after saying that. You don't score points for dogging a conference that you've lost to multiple times, or that you refuse to schedule on equal terms. Why say anything?? If he was saying it to sway people to his side then it didn't work and it never will because the immediate response from literally everyone is either "Well, why couldn't you beat those teams?" or "Well, why don't you play those teams?"

bleedXblue
02-08-2016, 10:58 AM
The A-10 is going to get 4-5 teams in the tourney. They are top heavy without a real powerhouse. I don't think the league is "crap". It's about the same as it was when we played in the league. Please stop.

Xville
02-08-2016, 11:16 AM
why some people on here continue to trash a league that we were in just a few years ago is beyond me. It's some kind of weird unhealthy obsession....just stop.

X-band '01
02-08-2016, 11:24 AM
Dayton and VCU are locks to go to the tournament; Saint Joe's, GW and even St. Bonaventure are the only other teams that have a realistic shot of getting in the tournament. 4 bids is their best-case scenario; even that involves stealing a bid on Selection Sunday.

xubrew
02-08-2016, 11:52 AM
why some people on here continue to trash a league that we were in just a few years ago is beyond me. It's some kind of weird unhealthy obsession....just stop.

Agreed.

Even if the league was "crap," which in the grand scheme of things it isn't (at least not when it comes to the overall strength of some of the programs), it makes no sense for a coach from another conference to crap all over them in the press. The Big South, the Colonial, and the Metro Atlantic aren't exactly strong leagues, but John Thompson III, or anyone from Georgetown, would look really stupid if they just suddenly decided to point that out, especially considering they've lost to Radford, Monmouth, and UNC Wilmington. Mick Cronin looked really stupid as well. in my opinion so did Mike Krzyzewski.

zanesxu
02-08-2016, 11:57 AM
Conference quality and strength (both in College Football and College Basketball) is often correlated to number of quality of coaches, which is unfortunately, very cyclical. A10 losing Shaka is a big blow to the league; they have roughly 4 of 14 teams with quality coaches - Martelli, Miller, McKillop, Mooney - of which Miller and Mooney are younger coaches who could be a flight risk. If Miller and Mooney punted, bad news. Not to say newer coaches won't step up, but it's certainly not a guarantee Will Wade will carry VCU to a final four.

kyxu
02-08-2016, 12:20 PM
Butler fans hate us immensely. I have been to a Xavier game at Hinkle and had no negative experiences with the fans, but you can tell just by the way the fans reacted during the game that that their desire to beat us borders on lust. And I have read Butler fans on their messageboard casually refer to Xavier and its program as "trash". Our first year in the Big East, some of their students even dressed like inmates to mock Xavier, for some strange reason (no guys on our roster with criminal records, but maybe mocking the post-brawl remarks). I kinda wish it wasn't like that though. I absolutely love beating Butler, but I also respect them.

Blue Blooded-05
02-08-2016, 01:31 PM
I have this strange feeling we're going to be matched up with Dayton in the tourney this year

muskiefan82
02-08-2016, 01:34 PM
Well, they are likely to be the only other team from Ohio in the tournament this year unless Akron gets there.

XUMIOH12
02-08-2016, 01:38 PM
I have this strange feeling we're going to be matched up with Dayton in the tourney this year

that doesn't bode well for my strange feeling that we will get upset in the 2nd round this year.

kyxu
02-08-2016, 01:55 PM
that doesn't bode well for my strange feeling that we will get upset in the 2nd round this year.

Was a 29-point beatdown not enough to convince you?

We are not a good match-up for Dayton. I hope we get them again as it would mean we advance.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 01:57 PM
why some people on here continue to trash a league that we were in just a few years ago is beyond me. It's some kind of weird unhealthy obsession....just stop.

Because the A10 stole Xavier's lunch, dinner and banquet money, plus the shirts off our backs. It was a crap league that was crappily run and screwed us out of our accomplishments. What's unhealthy is the amount of Jack that hangers-on like Dookcane, Fordham and Lossalle stuffed in their pockets out of our earnings. This has been well documented.

That's why. Capisce?

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 02:05 PM
Because the A10 stole Xavier's lunch, dinner and banquet money, plus the shirts off our backs.


It also allowed us to raise our profile to previously-unthinkable heights.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 02:08 PM
It also allowed us to raise our profile to previously-unthinkable heights.

It didn't do a damn thing for us that we didn't cause ourselves...Hell, Butler made Final 4's out of our old MCC league (Horizon). No one made a Final 4 from the A10 while we were in it- at least one that wasn't vacated. One could argue that for everything we accomplished by our own hard work, that the league actually held us back!

No props.

LadyMuskie
02-08-2016, 02:09 PM
Because the A10 stole Xavier's lunch, dinner and banquet money, plus the shirts off our backs. It was a crap league that was crappily run and screwed us out of our accomplishments. What's unhealthy is the amount of Jack that hangers-on like Dookcane, Fordham and Lossalle stuffed in their pockets out of our earnings. This has been well documented.

That's why. Capisce?

Come on, MOR. You're better than this.

The A10 didn't screw us out of our accomplishments. They can't take away the NCAA wins, the facilities, the recruits, the coaches, and the move to a better conference. They took their money as was their right to do so based on a contract Xavier agreed to.

The A10 is not as good as the Big East, there's no doubt about that. But to continue to call a league that we were very much a LARGE part of crappy, means that we were crappy too. It means that all those years spent bitching and moaning on here about being called a mid-major was what? Lip service? Delusion? A complete and utter waste of time? Why did we even bother competing if the league was such a pit of useless crap? We lost a lot of games in that league too. We had some hard fought contests that we lost, and had years where the league dominated us. What does that mean? Were we the hangers-on that year?

The A10, for better or worse, is a part of our history. I think we should embrace it. For the most part, we dominated that league and in turn that league gave us the opportunity to better our program and move forward. It is who were at the time. The A10 used our accomplishments to prop up the little schools and we used the A10 to catapult ourselves to a better league. I'm glad we've moved on, but damn. It's time we grow up and stop acting as though we weren't thrilled when we joined the A10 from the MCC.

The true measure of a man is how he treats people on his way up. We're moving up and there's zero reason to continue to piss on the programs that were with us along the way (except for dayton because they have it coming). The A10 teams know who they are and they know who we are. We don't have to be assholes about it just because we can be.

LadyMuskie
02-08-2016, 02:11 PM
It didn't do a damn thing for us that we didn't cause ourselves...Hell, Butler made Final 4's out of our old MCC league (Horizon). No one made a Final 4 from the A10 while we were in it- at least one that wasn't vacated. One could argue that for everything we accomplished by our own hard work, that the league actually held us back!

No props.
This is bullshit and you know it.

If this were the case, why join the league at all? Why not stay in the MCC? Why not join the MAC? Why not go out and be an independent? Come on. When we joined the A10 Virginia Tech, Temple, Rhode Island, UMass and George Washington all had much higher profiles than we did. Don't be ridiculous.

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 02:11 PM
The league didn't hold us back. Looking at the program in 1995 and 2013, there's no comparison. And there's zero doubt that quite a bit of that improvement would have been impossible without the MAJOR upgrade from the Horizon to the A-10. Yes, Butler had two nice runs out of the Horizon, but did you think they had a program as strong as Xavier's? Did they ever get a 3 seed coming out of the Horizon? Did anyone else? We (the league as a whole) had multiple #1 seeds and the assorted #2, #3 and #4 seeds during our time in the A-10. You didn't find that in the Horizon.

X-band '01
02-08-2016, 02:17 PM
You can't deny that the A-10 offered better competition than the MCC/Horizon did. I'm grateful for the competition and the rivalries that the A-10 offered.

But, as MOR points out, Xavier fans have every right to be irate at programs like Fordham and Duquesne who make no effort whatsoever to improve their programs. St. Bonaventure is a perfect example of a program that ought to be a perpetual bottom-feeder, but they actually have people in charge that know what the hell they are doing. Mark Schmidt is another branch of the Skip Prosser coaching tree that doesn't get nearly enough run in his conference and on a national scale. La Salle is a bottom feeder, but at least they do make a legitimate effort to add to the A-10's coffers.

XUMIOH12
02-08-2016, 03:01 PM
Was a 29-point beatdown not enough to convince you?

We are not a good match-up for Dayton. I hope we get them again as it would mean we advance.

I was just coupling my feeling of an upset with his feeling of a matchup with Dayton and noting if those two bad feelings came true it would be a terrible combination.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 03:09 PM
This is bullshit and you know it.

If this were the case, why join the league at all? Why not stay in the MCC? Why not join the MAC? Why not go out and be an independent? Come on. When we joined the A10 Virginia Tech, Temple, Rhode Island, UMass and George Washington all had much higher profiles than we did. Don't be ridiculous.

Why is it bullshit? Butler made 2 Final Fours out of the same league that we were in..and I bet they got to keep more money than we did. It wasn't like we weren't in a league already, we were. The A10 sure looked good when it became avaialble but we freaking left the rest of that league in our wake as the Flagship.

Xavier made Xavier what it has become...not the crappily operated Atlantic 10.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 03:17 PM
Come on, MOR. You're better than this.

The A10 is not as good as the Big East, there's no doubt about that. But to continue to call a league that we were very much a LARGE part of crappy, means that we were crappy too. It means that all those years spent bitching and moaning on here about being called a mid-major was what.

No, I'm not better than that. I suck.

Yeah, the A10 was so freaking great that we never, ever got away from being a mid-major....because the league management sucked and mediocrity, or worse, was tolerated.

Sorry. The league doesn't' make a program. Gonzaga and Butler proved that, and we did too when we made a Sweet 16 from the MCC. Many of us for years kept railing about how lousy Linda Blutarsky and her minions were..and somehow we overcame that incompetence.

Nope. Sorry. The A10 still sucks and will always be mid-major. I'm f-ing done with this discussion about a league that can't hang and plays in high school gyms in front of tens of fans.

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 03:35 PM
The A-10's actually not a mid-major and never was.

sweet16
02-08-2016, 03:43 PM
why some people on here continue to trash a league that we were in just a few years ago is beyond me. It's some kind of weird unhealthy obsession....just stop.

I'm not sure but I think the guy may be a bit of a doofus.

PM Thor
02-08-2016, 03:57 PM
My wife has been to both Big East tourneys so far, even stayed in the hotel where most of the teams stayed, without even being aware of it at first. She texted me from an elevator asking "Who wears all grey and has a big G on their sweats?" I of course respond "THAT'S GEORGETOWN".

She then sends me a pic with 4 of their starters (2 walkons) while she throws up the X. They were really, really gracious. It's not just the fans that are cool in this conference, it's the programs and the kids.

LadyMuskie
02-08-2016, 04:16 PM
Why is it bullshit? Butler made 2 Final Fours out of the same league that we were in..and I bet they got to keep more money than we did. It wasn't like we weren't in a league already, we were. The A10 sure looked good when it became avaialble but we freaking left the rest of that league in our wake as the Flagship.

Xavier made Xavier what it has become...not the crappily operated Atlantic 10.

Honestly, you're all over the place with the A10. On the one hand, the league held us back, but on the other hand we left it in our wake as the Flagship. If we were the Flagship, how were we held back? And what's the big deal about being the Flagship in a shit league? You can't have it both ways. We used the A10 for what we wanted - to graduate on to a bigger, better league. It's what we've always done. Fr. Hoff, Mike Bobinski and the Board created the foundation for the program and the program in turn used the league, and the competition within it, to propel itself even further. Let's not get it twisted.

You're being completely irrational - which is unusual for you. Are there genuine complaints to be made about the A10? Yes. Is the A10 as good of a league as the Big East? No, obviously it's not. But, the arguments you're making are based purely on emotion and wearing a set of blue-colored glasses.

Either way, why trash our history? Why trash who we were and tarnish what a lot of young men worked hard to accomplish? Every time you put down the A10 and call it crappy, you're putting down the accomplishments of Dave West, Lionel Chalmers, Romain Sato, and Tu Holloway. Because logically, if the A10 was always such a crap fest, then the accomplishments we made within it (beating a #1 ranked St. Joe's, winning the conference, winning the tournament) mean nothing. In fact, there's really no excuse for NOT having done those things since the league was such a crap show.

Just be thankful for what we accomplished and for the fact that the A10 helped, even in a small way, to make those accomplishments mean something.

waggy
02-08-2016, 04:28 PM
And Butler left the Horizon, and all of the money coming from their final fours....

to join the A10.

xubrew
02-08-2016, 04:41 PM
So, here's something else that I hated about the Atlantic Ten. I don't have all the exact facts or sequence of events at my fingertips, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But, this is approximately how it happened.

The A10 actually had their own network, which was actually more of a production company, but it actually allowed the games to be produced and made available in local markets, and on regional networks such as the FSN Networks. It was good, and the league had teams that were regularly in the rankings so there was interest in it.

So, naturally the conference decided to nuke their network for reasons that I still don't understand. And, they did so at a time when internet streaming was becoming a thing. Think about it. They were producing all this content, and new websites like ESPN3 (ESPN already had a deal with the A10 as a first tier option), were looking for content and paying for content. And...we shut it down.

The reason?? From what I understood they claimed it was losing money because it was costing more to produce the games than what they were getting in distribution. Now, maybe this is true, but if it is I'd like to know how?? The Horizon League launched the Horizon League Network right as the A10 was shutting theirs down. The production costs were minimal. All games were streamed on the website, and they also sold the rights to ESPN for select games that aired on ESPN3 and ESPN Full Court (when that existed). They were making money.

So, why wasn't the A10 making money?? That never has made any sense to me.

So, next we sign a deal with CSTV, which basically gave them the rights to all our content below the first tier. The problem was they were under no obligation to distribute the content, or to even produce the content. It was just theirs if they wanted it. The prices they were asking were ridiculous, so the majority of the games weren't on TV, and many weren't event streamed on the internet.

GREAT DEAL!!!!

I want to know how the hell a league like the A10, which I agree is not and never has been mid major, ends up with a TV/media deal as shitty as that, and with so little distribution and exposure, and with so little money. How is it the Horizon League was making more per school than we were and getting their games distributed?? How is it the Missouri Valley was doing that as well?? Or the Metro Atlantic?? Or several other conferences that WERE mid major?? The MVC schools were getting almost twice as much per school as the A10 was.

Why did we nuke our own network just when it was beginning to make sense to have one, and sign a deal with CSTV (now CBS) which basically gave them all our content, but didn't require them to make the content available??

It was perhaps the most moronic TV deal in sports history. People always used to complain about how no one respected the A10, and how other programs like Gonzaga and Butler always got more attention. Well, maybe it wasn't because they didn't respect us. Maybe it's just because they forgot we were there. I mean, the games were hardly ever on, so we became easy to forget.

And you know what?? I BLAME THE MARQUETTE FANS, DAMNIT!!!! THAT'S WHO'S FAULT IT IS!! WHAT A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES THOSE GUYS ARE!!!!!

LA Muskie
02-08-2016, 04:49 PM
Come on, MOR. You're better than this.

The A10 didn't screw us out of our accomplishments. They can't take away the NCAA wins, the facilities, the recruits, the coaches, and the move to a better conference. They took their money as was their right to do so based on a contract Xavier agreed to.

The A10 is not as good as the Big East, there's no doubt about that. But to continue to call a league that we were very much a LARGE part of crappy, means that we were crappy too. It means that all those years spent bitching and moaning on here about being called a mid-major was what? Lip service? Delusion? A complete and utter waste of time? Why did we even bother competing if the league was such a pit of useless crap? We lost a lot of games in that league too. We had some hard fought contests that we lost, and had years where the league dominated us. What does that mean? Were we the hangers-on that year?

The A10, for better or worse, is a part of our history. I think we should embrace it. For the most part, we dominated that league and in turn that league gave us the opportunity to better our program and move forward. It is who were at the time. The A10 used our accomplishments to prop up the little schools and we used the A10 to catapult ourselves to a better league. I'm glad we've moved on, but damn. It's time we grow up and stop acting as though we weren't thrilled when we joined the A10 from the MCC.

The true measure of a man is how he treats people on his way up. We're moving up and there's zero reason to continue to piss on the programs that were with us along the way (except for dayton because they have it coming). The A10 teams know who they are and they know who we are. We don't have to be assholes about it just because we can be.

I don't always agree with Lady. But when I do it's all the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LA Muskie
02-08-2016, 04:50 PM
You can't deny that the A-10 offered better competition than the MCC/Horizon did. I'm grateful for the competition and the rivalries that the A-10 offered.

But, as MOR points out, Xavier fans have every right to be irate at programs like Fordham and Duquesne who make no effort whatsoever to improve their programs. St. Bonaventure is a perfect example of a program that ought to be a perpetual bottom-feeder, but they actually have people in charge that know what the hell they are doing. Mark Schmidt is another branch of the Skip Prosser coaching tree that doesn't get nearly enough run in his conference and on a national scale. La Salle is a bottom feeder, but at least they do make a legitimate effort to add to the A-10's coffers.

It's not that Duquesne an Fordham make no efforts to improve. It's that they just suck at it. They are the Browns of college basketball. They are The Mush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LA Muskie
02-08-2016, 04:53 PM
Honestly, you're all over the place with the A10. On the one hand, the league held us back, but on the other hand we left it in our wake as the Flagship. If we were the Flagship, how were we held back? And what's the big deal about being the Flagship in a shit league? You can't have it both ways. We used the A10 for what we wanted - to graduate on to a bigger, better league. It's what we've always done. Fr. Hoff, Mike Bobinski and the Board created the foundation for the program and the program in turn used the league, and the competition within it, to propel itself even further. Let's not get it twisted.

You're being completely irrational - which is unusual for you. Are there genuine complaints to be made about the A10? Yes. Is the A10 as good of a league as the Big East? No, obviously it's not. But, the arguments you're making are based purely on emotion and wearing a set of blue-colored glasses.

Either way, why trash our history? Why trash who we were and tarnish what a lot of young men worked hard to accomplish? Every time you put down the A10 and call it crappy, you're putting down the accomplishments of Dave West, Lionel Chalmers, Romain Sato, and Tu Holloway. Because logically, if the A10 was always such a crap fest, then the accomplishments we made within it (beating a #1 ranked St. Joe's, winning the conference, winning the tournament) mean nothing. In fact, there's really no excuse for NOT having done those things since the league was such a crap show.

Just be thankful for what we accomplished and for the fact that the A10 helped, even in a small way, to make those accomplishments mean something.

Two for two. You're killing it today, Lady!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 05:36 PM
So, here's something else that I hated about the Atlantic Ten. I don't have all the exact facts or sequence of events at my fingertips, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But, this is approximately how it happened.

The A10 actually had their own network, which was actually more of a production company, but it actually allowed the games to be produced and made available in local markets, and on regional networks such as the FSN Networks. It was good, and the league had teams that were regularly in the rankings so there was interest in it.

So, naturally the conference decided to nuke their network for reasons that I still don't understand. And, they did so at a time when internet streaming was becoming a thing. Think about it. They were producing all this content, and new websites like ESPN3 (ESPN already had a deal with the A10 as a first tier option), were looking for content and paying for content. And...we shut it down.

The reason?? From what I understood they claimed it was losing money because it was costing more to produce the games than what they were getting in distribution. Now, maybe this is true, but if it is I'd like to know how?? The Horizon League launched the Horizon League Network right as the A10 was shutting theirs down. The production costs were minimal. All games were streamed on the website, and they also sold the rights to ESPN for select games that aired on ESPN3 and ESPN Full Court (when that existed). They were making money.

So, why wasn't the A10 making money?? That never has made any sense to me.

So, next we sign a deal with CSTV, which basically gave them the rights to all our content below the first tier. The problem was they were under no obligation to distribute the content, or to even produce the content. It was just theirs if they wanted it. The prices they were asking were ridiculous, so the majority of the games weren't on TV, and many weren't event streamed on the internet.

GREAT DEAL!!!!

I want to know how the hell a league like the A10, which I agree is not and never has been mid major, ends up with a TV/media deal as shitty as that, and with so little distribution and exposure, and with so little money. How is it the Horizon League was making more per school than we were and getting their games distributed?? How is it the Missouri Valley was doing that as well?? Or the Metro Atlantic?? Or several other conferences that WERE mid major?? The MVC schools were getting almost twice as much per school as the A10 was.

Why did we nuke our own network just when it was beginning to make sense to have one, and sign a deal with CSTV (now CBS) which basically gave them all our content, but didn't require them to make the content available??

It was perhaps the most moronic TV deal in sports history. People always used to complain about how no one respected the A10, and how other programs like Gonzaga and Butler always got more attention. Well, maybe it wasn't because they didn't respect us. Maybe it's just because they forgot we were there. I mean, the games were hardly ever on, so we became easy to forget.

And you know what?? I BLAME THE MARQUETTE FANS, DAMNIT!!!! THAT'S WHO'S FAULT IT IS!! WHAT A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES THOSE GUYS ARE!!!!!

This. And it goes to what I railed about all along...terrible Conference Leadership. By the way, pray tell how Fordham Dookcane and some others "tried to improve, but just suck at it? That is the most ridiculous and excusatory statement possible. Fordham, Lossallle Dookcane still play in high school gyms and garages. But they got plenty of Xavier's money -even before we left and gave up credits. Yeah!!!! Great Job Bernie McGlade!

LA Muskie
02-08-2016, 05:41 PM
By the way, pray tell how Fordham Dookcane and some others "tried to improve, but just suck at it?

I don't know. I don't pretend to know. Ask a Browns fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

XU 87
02-08-2016, 05:47 PM
Don't even get MOR going about Oklahoma City and Oral Roberts from the old MCC. They REALLY held X down.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 06:00 PM
(A)[/B]Honestly, you're all over the place with the A10.

(B) Either way, why trash our history? Why trash who we were and tarnish what a lot of young men worked hard to accomplish? Every time you put down the A10 and call it crappy, you're putting down the accomplishments of Dave West, Lionel Chalmers, Romain Sato, and Tu Holloway. Because logically, if the A10 was always such a crap fest, then the accomplishments we made within it (beating a #1 ranked St. Joe's, winning the conference, winning the tournament) mean nothing. In fact, there's really no excuse for NOT having done those things since the league was such a crap show.

Just be thankful for what we accomplished and for the fact that the A10 helped, even in a small way, to make those accomplishments mean something.

Ok, you drew me in one more time.
(A) No I'm not all over the place. I'll say this one more time. Xavier would have done what we have done in ANY league...MCC/Horizon, whatever...just like Butler was able to.

(B) No way am I trashing our history. But, NO college basketball fan or media member thinks of Xavier's history in terms of A10 wins. We are thought of for Sweet 16's and Elite 8's. Xavier accomplished those Sweet 16's and Elite 8's not Bernie McGlade's pawns. Last time I checked, anytime people want to mention our history, there's nothing mentioned about beating Olean Welding Academy on a snowy night in western New York, or rolling over a hapless Fordham team in a building that dates back to the Indians being screwed out of Manhattan Island. They flash our earned Sweet 16's and Elite 8's and NCAA runs. Billy Hahn and Tom Gola's garage had nothing to do with that. I'll grant that 2004 was an exception when we stepped over St. Joes at the vdump, and we got some props there, but those moments were few and far between.

Bottom line. We invested tons and gave that garbage league our all, and got nothing but 2,000 people in Amherst MA, barely any press, very few TV eyeballs and could barely crack the rankings- that is until we got away from all the flotsam and jetsam and had ourselves on the national stage. Even then, we were given the old "little engine that could" treatment.

NOW, I'm done.

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 06:02 PM
Don't even get MOR going about Oklahoma City and Oral Roberts from the old MCC. They REALLY held X down.

I've actually been to a basketball game at Oral Roberts. Kind of a dump. Weird campus (as one might expect).

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 06:04 PM
Ok, you drew me in one more time.
(A) No I'm not all over the place. I'll say this one more time. Xavier would have done what we have done in ANY league...MCC/Horizon, whatever....


Negatory. And we'd have never attracted James Mikely Mantell Posey, Jr., Darnell Williams, David West, Thad Matta (why would he have left Butler?!?), or Sean Miller to campus without the move to the A-10. The Cintas Center probably wouldn't exist, or it wouldn't be nearly so nice, if not for the A-10.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 06:05 PM
I don't know. I don't pretend to know. Ask a Browns fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, you said it the first time Counselor. No evidence to prove your mindless rantings?

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 06:06 PM
Don't even get MOR going about Oklahoma City and Oral Roberts from the old MCC. They REALLY held X down.

I loved Abe Lemons. In fact one of Xavier's first games on ESPN was Xavier vs OK City from Schmidt.

muskienick
02-08-2016, 06:25 PM
Because the A10 stole Xavier's lunch, dinner and banquet money, plus the shirts off our backs. It was a crap league that was crappily run and screwed us out of our accomplishments. What's unhealthy is the amount of Jack that hangers-on like Dookcane, Fordham and Lossalle stuffed in their pockets out of our earnings. This has been well documented.

That's why. Capisce?

This claim is absolutely ludicrous, MOR! Even though nobody likes it, every Conference has its share of LaSalles and Fordhams. The A-10 was structured like that from the beginning of our membership in the league and we benefited greatly from that affiliation. It gave us the opportunity to finally reach our present status as one of the better members of the Big East, a goal of many of us for many years, and achieved only because of the guts of the Catholic 7 after their FB partners in the Big East made some astonishingly bad decisions on new FB additions.

As far as our NCAA shares left behind in the A-10 and those that were shared equally with the likes of Duquesne, Fordham, and LaSalle while we were still members, every Conference functions in the same way. Members of the Catholic 7 left behind a basket-full of cash for their Former FB partners. Cash distribution rules are not changed just because we have 'XAVIER' written across the chests of our athletes. UNC and Duke must share all their NCAA shares with the likes of BC, Va Tech, Clemson, and Georgia Tech (all fairly traditional bottom dwellers among the ACC basketball elite). The SEC, Big 12 and PAC-10 have similar situations.

The A-10 was a great place for us to be for many years. It was not then, and it isn't even now, a true "Mid-Major Conference." It's a step up from that. It is still more than holding its own on the national scale both in the RPI and the two major Polls.

chico
02-08-2016, 06:26 PM
MOR has a point. But the conference was good at the beginning...

Remember when we first joined the A-10? People thought it would be too big of a jump for us. The conference had Temple and UMass and was considered a pretty good place to be. St. Joe's was number 1 in the country and we had a national POY, so the conference wasn't a bad place to be at all. As time went on, though, as we started dominating the league started to lost its stature. Bad management, bad hires (paging Steve Lappas) programs just giving up on fielding any semblance of a competitive team caused the conference to trend downward. It was a great conference for much of Xavier's time in it, but we kind of outgrew it. Our program grew and the conference didn't.

XU 87
02-08-2016, 06:29 PM
I loved Abe Lemons. In fact one of Xavier's first games on ESPN was Xavier vs OK City from Schmidt.

I was at that game. X had the early lead and then OK City beat X by double digits. Bad shooting night for Hicks.

I think that was Staak's third year, which was a tough year.

XU 87
02-08-2016, 06:33 PM
MOR has a point. But the conference was good at the beginning...

Remember when we first joined the A-10? People thought it would be too big of a jump for us. The conference had Temple and UMass and was considered a pretty good place to be. St. Joe's was number 1 in the country and we had a national POY, so the conference wasn't a bad place to be at all. As time went on, though, as we started dominating the league started to lost its stature. Bad management, bad hires (paging Steve Lappas) programs just giving up on fielding any semblance of a competitive team caused the conference to trend downward. It was a great conference for much of Xavier's time in it, but we kind of outgrew it. Our program grew and the conference didn't.

Just like the MCC was a good conference for X at the time, the A-10 was also a good conference- at the time.

Chico is correct-X grew. The conferences didn't.

Based on this past history, in 10-15 years I would expect X to be in a conference with UK, Duke, N Carolina, Kansas, Arizona, and Michigan State.

GreatWhiteNorth
02-08-2016, 06:51 PM
Are we still talking about Marquette Fans anymore?

xu82
02-08-2016, 06:55 PM
Are we still talking about Marquette Fans anymore?

It's still about basketball......is that close enough?

LadyMuskie
02-08-2016, 06:55 PM
Ok, you drew me in one more time.
(A) No I'm not all over the place. I'll say this one more time. Xavier would have done what we have done in ANY league...MCC/Horizon, whatever...just like Butler was able to.

And I'll say this one more time - you're being irrational and ridiculous. First of all, your argument that Xavier could have success in any league is a nonstarter. Just see Go's post. But beyond that, it begs the question, why leave the A10 for the Big East if league doesn't matter? As for Butler's success, which by the way they haven't been able to recreate in the A10 or Big East, is something we've yet to do ANYWHERE. The closest we've come to it is when we were part of the A10. You think playing UMass with a Marcus Camby on the roster and Rhode Island with Lamar Odom on the team meant nothing? Please. Don't be so obtuse. The level of competition we faced increased dramatically when we joined the A10. Maybe it didn't sustain, but we faced some very hard competition that prepared us for where we are today. Know how I"m sure of this? Because we're having arguably more success earlier in our new league than Butler, who didn't have the benefit of that increased competition. We lost two coaches who took our program to new heights while they lost one, and we've still bounced back in league play faster.

(B) No way am I trashing our history. But, NO college basketball fan or media member thinks of Xavier's history in terms of A10 wins. We are thought of for Sweet 16's and Elite 8's. Xavier accomplished those Sweet 16's and Elite 8's not Bernie McGlade's pawns. Last time I checked, anytime people want to mention our history, there's nothing mentioned about beating Olean Welding Academy on a snowy night in western New York, or rolling over a hapless Fordham team in a building that dates back to the Indians being screwed out of Manhattan Island. They flash our earned Sweet 16's and Elite 8's and NCAA runs. Billy Hahn and Tom Gola's garage had nothing to do with that. I'll grant that 2004 was an exception when we stepped over St. Joes at the vdump, and we got some props there, but those moments were few and far between. First of all, you're obsessed with Fordham and St. Bonaventure in a borderline unhealthy way. The league was far greater than those two or three teams, and you know it. So, to only harp on them is disingenuous at best and silly at worst. Beyond that, what team, when they win a National Championship, is talked about in terms of conference wins in the general media? When Florida won back to back championships no one gave two hoots about which teams they beat in the SEC. When Butler went to the Final Four, there was no mention thereafter about who they beat in the Horizon League - only who they beat in the tournament. Last year, on our most recent Sweet Sixteen jaunt, no one mentioned that we beat St. John's or Georgetown in the regular season. Know why? It's not because of the league teams are in. It's because a brand new season starts the first weekend of the tournament. If any team should know that, it should be Xavier! So, this argument holds no water.

Bottom line. We invested tons and gave that garbage league our all, and got nothing but 2,000 people in Amherst MA, barely any press, very few TV eyeballs and could barely crack the rankings- that is until we got away from all the flotsam and jetsam and had ourselves on the national stage. Even then, we were given the old "little engine that could" treatment. Uh, where were you last year for the NCAA Tournament? That little engine that could treatment was alive and well. How did BYU do in the tournament? Why didn't being in the Big East stop that from happening? We have an entire thread right now dedicated to which AP voter we should mad at for not giving us the proper respect. Why hasn't the Big East solved these problems for us? Why aren't we ranked higher this week than Oklahoma or Maryland? Why isn't the Big East 1/2 in the rankings? I don't understand how the Big East can be failing us like this!!!

NOW, I'm done. Yes. You are done. That we can agree on. You were done awhile ago, but kept trying anyway.

I answered in red.

LadyMuskie
02-08-2016, 06:57 PM
MOR has a point. But the conference was good at the beginning...

Remember when we first joined the A-10? People thought it would be too big of a jump for us. The conference had Temple and UMass and was considered a pretty good place to be. St. Joe's was number 1 in the country and we had a national POY, so the conference wasn't a bad place to be at all. As time went on, though, as we started dominating the league started to lost its stature. Bad management, bad hires (paging Steve Lappas) programs just giving up on fielding any semblance of a competitive team caused the conference to trend downward. It was a great conference for much of Xavier's time in it, but we kind of outgrew it. Our program grew and the conference didn't.

I would absolutely agree with this.

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 06:57 PM
Are we still talking about Marquette Fans anymore?

They're overrated.

Masterofreality
02-08-2016, 10:49 PM
We will just agree to disagree.

The A10 is a second rate league that Xavier did more for than the league did for Xavier. Period. The A10 didn't "cause" Cintas to be built. It was in planning for a long while. The A10 didn't "help" Xavier get seeds in the NCAA tournament. Xavier got them despite the yoke that the RPI ruining A10 provided. It did it by playing a tougher non-con schedule. The A10 didn't "build" Xavier's brand-certainly not in front of tens of fans in Tom Gola's garage. Xavier had to do it on our own for the most part. How quickly some forget the weeping wailing and gnashing of teeth over that other league that occurred for years on this and other boards. Oh, and how about those pages long threads about dreaming of other revised conference configurations? No delusion there. So some of you posters, go ahead and continue to show support for a league where a couple of the most prominent members would love to leave- a sap- including those Cretins 50 miles north. Yep. That's the most damning thing there is.

GoMuskies
02-08-2016, 10:54 PM
The Big East is better. The A-10 is not crap. It definitely did help build our brand. It's definitely no coincidence that Cintas showed up 5 years after we joined the A-10. MOR, don't feel bad about being completely wrong. It happens to all of us now and again.

Xavier
02-08-2016, 11:30 PM
I don't care how much you hated the A-10, it helped xavier grow. Not to mention, I remember MOR defending the crap out of it for years-comparing records vs other leagues. (Frankly, the extreme lack of success in March for the current Big East is just the thing MOR would use to put it down)

Honestly, it was just good enough that it gave some credibility to X while it dominated, the few years X wasn't good enough to be an at large they ran through the Tournament....it was a great league to build the program to what it is.

LadyMuskie
02-08-2016, 11:42 PM
The Big East is better. The A-10 is not crap. It definitely did help build our brand. It's definitely no coincidence that Cintas showed up 5 years after we joined the A-10. MOR, don't feel bad about being completely wrong. It happens to all of us now and again.


I don't care how much you hated the A-10, it helped xavier grow. Not to mention, I remember MOR defending the crap out of it for years-comparing records vs other leagues. (Frankly, the extreme lack of success in March for the current Big East is just the thing MOR would use to put it down)

Honestly, it was just good enough that it gave some credibility to X while it dominated, the few years X wasn't good enough to be an at large they ran through the Tournament....it was a great league to build the program to what it is.

Agree on both accounts.

Roach
02-09-2016, 02:32 AM
These pretzels are making me thirsty.

SemajParlor
02-09-2016, 11:26 AM
I'm sorry but the A-10 is crap. They have a few good teams that can win a few games in the dance but that's it. Nobody from that conference is cutting down the nets. Yeah I'm big timing that league and I don't care. VD and VCU are their best teams and neither one will be playing the second weekend. VD is overrated and will lose first game of the dance. Pick,who is ever playing them bc it will be the upset pick favorite.

Dayton and VCU have both made it further than we have in recent years.

Masterofreality
02-09-2016, 12:49 PM
Dayton and VCU have both made it further than we have in recent years.

VDump has not made it "further". VCU wasn't in the A10 when they made their Final 4 run. iN fact, you could say that the A10 has dragged them down.
Thanks for playing.

SemajParlor
02-09-2016, 04:35 PM
VDump has not made it "further". VCU wasn't in the A10 when they made their Final 4 run. iN fact, you could say that the A10 has dragged them down.
Thanks for playing.

Woah, only took a few years to build that Ivory tower for some I see.

Dayton made the Elite 8 more recently than Xavier has. That's a fact - get over it. Also pretty bad argument regarding VCU. A program's history doesn't erase once it changes conferences. Or else Xa--- never mind. Yes, A10 is a step up from the Colonial.

I've always loved how Xavier for the most part has a fairly rational fan base. Let's not be an annoying fan base. Thanks.

Smails
02-09-2016, 05:02 PM
I've always loved how Xavier for the most part has a fairly rational fan base. Let's not be an annoying fan base. Thanks.

But you annoy the living shit out of many on this board and given that you're a Xavier fan wouldn't that make you part of an annoying fan base?

You know what's annoying? A grown man telling another grown man how he should act when it comes to being fan. As if there's some universal standard for being annoying..unless of course you feel you are the right person to make that judgment, and if that's the case then your picture is probably next to the 'annoying' entry in the dictionary.

GoMuskies
02-09-2016, 05:06 PM
https://media4.giphy.com/media/JceRvHjp8CcTe/200.gif

UCGRAD4X
02-09-2016, 05:13 PM
Woah, only took a few years to build that Ivory tower for some I see.

Dayton made the Elite 8 more recently than Xavier has. That's a fact - get over it. Also pretty bad argument regarding VCU. A program's history doesn't erase once it changes conferences. Or else Xa--- never mind. Yes, A10 is a step up from the Colonial.

I've always loved how Xavier for the most part has a fairly rational fan base. Let's not be an annoying fan base. Thanks.

When the question is how conference affiliation affects a programs development and success (particularly in post season) I think this is a legitimate argument. You may not agree but that doesn't make it a 'pretty bad'.

xubrew
02-09-2016, 05:14 PM
I think it's okay to be frustrated when things aren't as good as they should be. The Atlantic Ten was not, and quite frankly still is not, as good as it should have been.

Is it a stretch to say that it held Xavier back?? I would argue that in a lot of ways it is not. We had a ridiculous TV deal that gave the league very little exposure and even less money. Considering that there were 31 conferences, and maybe seven of them put multiple teams in the tournament on a regular basis, and the A10 was one of the seven that did, it's okay to think that's ridiculous. It's okay to SAY that's ridiculous. It WAS ridiculous!!

It was a cluster, not a conference. Now, that may not mean much today because realignment has left us with giant clusters and not conferences, but not all the teams were likeminded. Fordham looked, played, and spent like a Patriot League school. I have no problems with it in and of itself, but if that's how they want to operate, then the Patriot League was really where they belonged (and truthfully it would have been rare to see them finish in the top half of that league). Duquesne, La Salle, and even Saint Bonaveture looked, played, and acted like Metro Atlantic teams. Fordham and La Salle were NOTHING like Xavier and Dayton when it came to athletics, yet we were in the same conference. To have so many different types of programs that operate so differently and have such a big difference when it comes to their interests, it's really not good for them to be in the same league. Fordham and Duquesne seemed okay with playing on the receiving end of buy games, and then taking what little TV money the league got, and somehow getting a big share of NCAA Tournament money, and not even putting it back into their programs. It's okay to be frustrated with that. People should have been frustrated with that. You didn't see that happening in other conferences.

The TV deal was really the last straw for me. With all the new networks and internet streaming that was out there, the A10 managed to somehow negotiate a deal with less money and less exposure. Yes, I think that held us back. I think it held all the programs who gave a shit about basketball back. In fact, I don't see how anyone can say it didn't hold us back. I think we went from getting 4 or 5 teams in out of twelve, to just getting 2 or 3teams in out of 14 right at that same time period. It wasn't the only reason, but it certainly didn't help.

I distinctly remember wanting to leave, and not wanting to wait for the Big East. I just wanted to get together with the good programs from the A10 that actually did give a shit and leaving the conference to form our own league with two or three other basketball centric programs like Butler (who wasn't in the league yet), Creighton, and another team or two. I STILL think there is a group of programs within the A10 that would be better off if they went and did this. They could form a single division conference, negotiate a better TV deal, write up their own bylaws, make sure they're all on the same page when it comes to basketball and athletics, and then they could call themselves charter members.

Perhaps I don't have the disdain for the A10 that MOR does, and I agree it was a step up in terms of the level of competition, which certainly helped Xavier at the time they joined, but the league should have been better, and it made some questionable decisions (and that's putting it nicely) that I think did hold us back, and it held other programs back too. I don't see how anyone can really disagree with that.

....AND AGAIN!!! I BLAME ALL OF THIS ON THE MARQUETTE FANS!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF CLASSLESS THUGS!!!

UCGRAD4X
02-09-2016, 05:20 PM
....AND AGAIN!!! I BLAME ALL OF THIS ON THE MARQUETTE FANS!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF CLASSLESS THUGS!!!

..don't forget that backstabbing doosh DiUlio...(apples from trees and all of that)

SemajParlor
02-09-2016, 05:24 PM
But you annoy the living shit out of many on this board and given that you're a Xavier fan wouldn't that make you part of an annoying fan base?

You know what's annoying? A grown man telling another grown man how he should act when it comes to being fan. As if there's some universal standard for being annoying..unless of course you feel you are the right person to make that judgment, and if that's the case then your picture is probably next to the 'annoying' entry in the dictionary.


Lol at you reading dictionaries with pictures in them.

GoMuskies
02-09-2016, 05:27 PM
When the question is how conference affiliation affects a programs development and success (particularly in post season) I think this is a legitimate argument. You may not agree but that doesn't make it a 'pretty bad'.

VCU was in the play-in game that year. When's the last time a team from outside the major leagues has made a run like that as something other than a Cinderella? Even Wichita State's undefeated team lost to Kentucky in the second round (in a fantastic game played at an incredibly high level in all fairness).

I'd think UNLV in 1991 is the last time we had a non-Cinderella from a true mid-major league in the Final Four.

SemajParlor
02-09-2016, 05:31 PM
https://media4.giphy.com/media/JceRvHjp8CcTe/200.gif

LOL! Woah, that escalated quickly. Didn't expect that. I hope Smails is alright - I'm very concerned, he seems very upset at me. :(

SemajParlor
02-09-2016, 05:38 PM
VCU was in the play-in game that year. When's the last time a team from outside the major leagues has made a run like that as something other than a Cinderella? Even Wichita State's undefeated team lost to Kentucky in the second round (in a fantastic game played at an incredibly high level in all fairness).

I'd think UNLV in 1991 is the last time we had a non-Cinderella from a true mid-major league in the Final Four.

One of the best parts of that run was Jay Bilas saying how they had no business even getting in. I was in Houston that year for the Final 4 and Bilas was at a convention signing autographs. About 95% of the line was trolling VCU fans getting pictures with him. It was pretty great - he was a good sport about it.

LadyMuskie
02-09-2016, 05:42 PM
I think some Xavier fans would do well to start a support group to help each other get through the "ordeal" that was the A10. Post-Traumatic-A10-Stress-Disorder is alive and very, very real.

paulxu
02-09-2016, 06:33 PM
Bilas can wait in line for me...and then bite me.

Drew
02-11-2016, 10:39 AM
shhh, we're being watched...

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/621561-reshuffling-conferences-8.html

GoMuskies
02-11-2016, 10:45 AM
It's a very weird argument for expansion I've seen on HLH and apparently on that board as well. It basically goes something like: "You guys are all so darn good. You need some shitty teams in your league to beat up on. We're shitty! Pick us!"

XMuskieFTW
02-11-2016, 10:47 AM
shhh, we're being watched...

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/621561-reshuffling-conferences-8.html

So basically we should bring in some inferior to beat up on? Dumb. I like a league where you can make the tourney at 9-9 cause you're playing tough competition every game. No need to dilute the strength of the conference so we can "win more". If we wanted that we would've stayed in the A-10.

xubrew
02-11-2016, 11:21 AM
shhh, we're being watched...

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/621561-reshuffling-conferences-8.html

Well, good. Maybe the schools in the A10 that do care about basketball and that do have solid programs should take notes. Band together, seek out other quality basketball centric programs (Wichita, Belmont, Siena, Valpo, and others who put more into basketball than most of the bottom half of the A10, and routinely outperform the bottom half of the A10, and form their own league with their own bylaws and negotiate what would undoubtedly be a more lucrative TV deal).

Take any nine or ten of the following teams: Dayton, SLU (once they make a coaching change), Davidson, GW, Richmond, VCU, Joe's, Wichita, Valpo, Davidson, Belmont, Siena, Rhody (if they can ever stay healthy).

That's a damn good basketball league.

A lot of things about the A10 frustrated me. I admittedly did not want to wait on the Big East because I wasn't sure if it would ever come, and I felt we could build a damn good league even without joining it. I think the programs in the A10 that do care about basketball could do the same, and should do so rather than waiting on the Big East. Quite frankly, I hope the Big East never does expand. I'd actually rather see it contract down to nine than expand past ten. So, if they're watching this, and they want into a better league, my advice would be that they can get into a better league without getting into the Big East, and that's what they should do because the Big East will hopefully NEVER expand.

Xavier
02-11-2016, 11:21 AM
I was for expanding when X got in, but after a few seasons I love playing everyone twice. Really makes it more interesting and competitive. There are a few teams I'd still be happy to take on and lose that aspect, though. (IE UConn).

GoMuskies
02-11-2016, 11:25 AM
Take any nine or ten of the following teams: Dayton, SLU (once they make a coaching change), Davidson, GW, Richmond, VCU, Joe's, Wichita, Valpo, Davidson, Belmont, Siena, Rhody (if they can ever stay healthy).

That's a damn good basketball league.




That's in complete contradiction to what those folks are advocating. They say a conference needs shitty teams. How do you make a basketball conference better? Add shitty teams! So take what you've got there, add Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, and Grambling, and it's PERFECT.

X-band '01
02-11-2016, 11:57 AM
If we're being watched,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d28qo5mltl0

Xavier 90
Dayton 61

xubrew
02-11-2016, 01:29 PM
That's in complete contradiction to what those folks are advocating. They say a conference needs shitty teams. How do you make a basketball conference better? Add shitty teams! So take what you've got there, add Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, and Grambling, and it's PERFECT.

A10 logic is jaw dropping.

xudash
02-11-2016, 02:18 PM
Wow.

I read back through some of their comments.

Some observations:

JPSCHMACK
- He's dedicated to his fundamental premise: game the system to increase NCAA bids by adding schools.
- He's a reasonable, constructive poster.
- Where he comes up short is his idea of pursuing dilution to achieve that; he's a proponent of adding weak schools to achieve that.
- No thank you. His over zealous focus on math keeps him from seeing the damage his idea would bring to our brand.
- I still respect SBU, but imagine what that would do within our group and, more importantly, to the media package.
- He also doesn't understand the HOH dynamic: it's not that X and Marquette fans are the most vocal about it, its that the Georgetown, etc. people don't really acknowledge the existence of VCU, Richmond, UD, etc. They flat out don't care, don't want expansion as a general rule, and don't even feel compelled to wade into the conversation pool on the topic. It's really simple: "no additions period, but certainly no mid-major additions if and when the time comes."
- Where he truly blows it is in stating that Val Ackerman is stupid. Damn, that was a dumb comment to make.
- Bottomline: don't fix something that isn't broken, and, if additions ever do take place, they're going to be accretive, not dilutive. None have taken place to-date because:

1. The original design was to go up to no more than 10 teams.
2. Performance to-date has evidenced that it is all working very well; nothing to fix.
3. No viable candidates exist for expansion, based on the Big East's long-term vision for itself.

UD Posters:
- Most of those guys are truly entertaining.
- Some of them think UD would end up in the top half of the existing BE.
- Fans of a program that loses to LossSalle on the road and barely gets past Duquesne at home - I think it was 2 points if I recall the score correctly - have zero clue of what a grind this conference presents.

The poor Duquesne fan is left to believe (hope?) that the P5 are going to leave all basketball schools behind.

You know, the A10 logic IS jaw dropping. But what choice do they have? We sit here with a long-term $500 million media agreement, 10 solid schools, and the MSG deal, along with fully aligned Presidents and a very strong BE Conference management group. We sit here with very strong recruiting and solid performance results, knowing that we want to go deeper in the Tournament as a group. Knowing what I know as a Xavier fan with Xavier in the Big East versus knowing what I knew as a Xavier fan with Xavier in the A10 presents a THANK GOD moment if there ever was one.

And it only gets worse for the A10 from here, when it comes to separation from the Big East, as I believe St. Johns is poised to comeback, and because DePaul is going to make a reasonable turn once the McCormick Place comes online.

X-band '01
02-11-2016, 03:03 PM
The A-10 could have at least had the Barclays Center, but they just gave it to the ACC in exchange for 3 magic beans.

I'm not even going to get into their media deal - is it any wonder that Dayton and others want to get the hell out? They know that they're going to have trouble competing with the Big East long-term.

Milhouse
02-11-2016, 03:21 PM
I'm sure UD could compete in the Big East...but they'd be in a similar position to Marquette/Creighton/Butler/Seton Hall...which means they'd be a bubble team right now...is that really what they want? I mean we saw the difference between A10 players and Big East Players when we played in November...

xubrew
02-11-2016, 03:28 PM
You know, the A10 logic IS jaw dropping. But what choice do they have?

They have a choice. The close to half of the schools that do care about basketball and actually invest in it could leave the conference and form their own league with two or three other basketball centric schools. It would instantly be a better conference than what the A10 currently is. It would be less bloated and could play a true round robin, and they could certainly negotiate a better media deal which pays each school a lot more money than what they're currently getting.

Or, they could all stay clustered together in a bloated league full of schools that are not like-minded.

JTG
02-11-2016, 03:45 PM
Consider this: UD will go to the Dance every year in the A10. They have more resources and make more money, than probably the rest of the A10, combined. They have a fan base than will flock to UD Arena to watch them play anybody. And the NCAA writes them a nice fat check every March for hosting the 1st Round. So they will do just fine where they are.

Masterofreality
02-11-2016, 03:46 PM
I'll just leave it at this. The A10 was somewhat beneficial to Xavier for the first 9 years- then the whole thing reversed. The last 9 years the league was a clusterf$&k of incompetence and a rogues gallery of no commitment money takers who did zero to enhance the brand. Except for the year after Beaknose left the program in the lurch, Xavier carried that fleabag league on it's shoulders-especially after John Chaney finally left.
The only decent thing left about that thrown-together mish mash of schools is Phil Martelli.

xubrew
02-11-2016, 04:31 PM
Consider this: UD will go to the Dance every year in the A10. They have more resources and make more money, than probably the rest of the A10, combined. They have a fan base than will flock to UD Arena to watch them play anybody. And the NCAA writes them a nice fat check every March for hosting the 1st Round. So they will do just fine where they are.

It doesn't really work that way. Hosting the NCAA Tournament basically means you're taking care of all the event management free of charge in exchange for virtually nothing. It especially sucks if you're hosting and your school gets in because a lot of the athletic department has to stay back and work instead of being able to go with the team. I guess that's really not the case for the First Four, though.

EDIT: And it really wouldn't be like that if it weren't for the Marquette fans. GOD I can't stand those people!!!!!

X-band '01
02-11-2016, 04:54 PM
If they ever refurbish USBank Arena, at least Northern Kentucky can now be the host institution!

RealDeal
02-11-2016, 05:03 PM
This thread is titled "Marquette fans." Where did it go off the rails?

LadyMuskie
02-11-2016, 05:13 PM
This thread is titled "Marquette fans." Where did it go off the rails?

Derailing threads is a XavierHoops.com tradition. It's like that game show - I can derail this thread in two posts. Oh yeah? I can do it one post!

xubrew
02-11-2016, 05:21 PM
This thread is titled "Marquette fans." Where did it go off the rails?

I'd like to point out that all my posts have mentioned Marquette's fans.

XUFan09
02-11-2016, 06:43 PM
Derailing threads is a XavierHoops.com tradition. It's like that game show - I can derail this thread in two posts. Oh yeah? I can do it one post!
This is the gold standard for that tradition.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Masterofreality
02-11-2016, 07:13 PM
Derailing threads is a XavierHoops.com tradition. It's like that game show - I can derail this thread in two posts. Oh yeah? I can do it one post!

I think Muskie should have the option/ability to just change the Thread name at will when it moves to other lands....but he's too lazy to do so.
Talk about laissez faire management! It's about as bad as Steve Lappas' "coaching". Oh, sorry. Another A10 garbage mention. :biggrin:

Muskie
02-11-2016, 09:21 PM
I think Muskie should have the option/ability to just change the Thread name at will when it moves to other lands....but he's too lazy to do so.
Talk about laissez faire management! It's about as bad as Steve Lappas' "coaching". Oh, sorry. Another A10 garbage mention. :biggrin:

Just call me Martin Van Buren.




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UCGRAD4X
02-12-2016, 09:05 AM
Just call me Martin Van Buren.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...just don't call him a Marquette fan...or late for last call.

Masterofreality
02-12-2016, 10:11 AM
...just don't call him a Marquette fan...or late for last call.

Or late for Marshmallow Krispy Treats!!!!

Cheesehead
02-12-2016, 01:00 PM
I think Muskie should have the option/ability to just change the Thread name at will when it moves to other lands....but he's too lazy to do so.
Talk about laissez faire management! It's about as bad as Steve Lappas' "coaching". Oh, sorry. Another A10 garbage mention. :biggrin:

Which is worse? Coaching by Lappas or color work by Lappas as a broadcaster?

muskiefan82
02-12-2016, 01:24 PM
Which is worse? Coaching by Lappas or color work by Lappas as a broadcaster?

We no longer say "color work" in this day and age.

UCGRAD4X
02-12-2016, 04:14 PM
We no longer say "color work" in this day and age.

What if he were a painter/artist? Could we say it then? Even in this day and age?

muskiefan82
02-12-2016, 05:18 PM
What if he were a painter/artist? Could we say it then? Even in this day and age?

This is discriminatory as it implies that painters are not artists. If everyone would just stop talking, would it be offensive that no one said anything?

UCGRAD4X
02-12-2016, 05:53 PM
This is discriminatory as it implies that painters are not artists. If everyone would just stop talking, would it be offensive that no one said anything?

I guess it would depend on what specifically we stopped talking about. The awkward silence would speak volumes, which, theoretically, could be, potentially, voluminously offensive...to someone...somewhere...for some inexplicable reason.

xu82
02-12-2016, 09:13 PM
I guess it would depend on what specifically we stopped talking about. The awkward silence would speak volumes, which, theoretically, could be, potentially, voluminously offensive...to someone...somewhere...for some inexplicable reason.

This is why my new Aluminum Foil Head Gear sales are going through the roof. Join the "In Crowd"! PM me with you hat size and credit card info if interested.

Cheesehead
02-13-2016, 08:09 PM
Which is worse? Coaching by Lappas or color work by Lappas as a broadcaster?

Color commentary ok?