NCAA Self-Imposed Punishment

[nasdadjr]

Why does the NCAA allow self punishment? I don't want to get into the injustice the two Louisville senior transfers have to experience, but why are self bans allowed? The NCAA should NEVER consider self punishment when dealing with schools, but it does all the time. I want to write so much on this topic but don't feel like writing a novel so I'll just leave the discussion at why the NCAA allows schools to be judge jury and executioner? I really hope Louisville fans boycott the remaining home schedule in support of those 2 seniors

[XUGRAD80]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Is there something wrong when a golfer calls a penalty on themselves? It actually helps the NCAA adminsitration to cut costs for investigation. I think that is why they take the schools attitude and helpfulness into consideration when administering punishment. UofL may still face additional sanctions from the NCAA, only time will tell.

[Snipe]

Wow that is rough for the senior transfers. I remember being in the mix for one of those guys.

Schools in the SEC have a long and storied history of assigning attractive co-eds to potential recruits to show them around campus. Taking care of recruits in this way is part of the culture of the South. It probably contributes to the Winstons and the rape culture that exists in NCAA Football down south. You have to wonder how alums can support the stuff, especially the ones who find out that Daddys little girl was raped or molested, or that the school encouraged her to be a comfort woman for recruits. Whoring out your daughters is good for the team!

[bleedXblue]

Just because you self impose doesn't mean that the NCAA wont get involved in further sanctions.......

[xubrew]

Just because you self impose doesn't mean that the NCAA wont get involved in further sanctions.......

True, but I think it does in this case. I think that's why they did it. They hired a former NCAA Investigator who still has close ties to the NCAA as a consultant, and I think they were (accurately) advised that if they did this then there would be no further postseason bans.

I hate most articles. I loved this one. Gary Parrish nails it!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25474650/louisville-selfishly-punishes-seniors-by-self-imposing-late-postseason-ban

[UCGRAD4X]

Lewis could've gone to Xavier or Ohio State while Lee could've gone to Maryland, Gonzaga or Arizona, just to name a few. Instead, they both picked Louisville, and coach Rick Pitino recalled why Friday.

"They told me, 'Coach we've never experienced the NCAA Tournament. We just want to experience it one time,'" Pitino said. "Now Damion and Trey have nothing to look forward to. They were hit over the head with a sledgehammer."

Lewis could not have gone to the tournament at Xavier? WTF?

[GoMuskies]

Of course he could have. He also assumed he would go to the NCAA Tournament at Louisville.

[LA Muskie]

The longer the school waits to impose the punishment, the further removed any of the players are from the misconduct. McGee was on the staff from 2010 to 2014. While it sucks for Lewis and Lee, much of the current team were recruited by McGee. By the time the NCAA would have gotten around to imposing its ban it would have been 2018, at which point the vast majority (if not all) of players would have been entirely uninvolved. And by then Pitino may well have been gone--and if no longer in the NCAA could escape punishment entirely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nasdadjr]

The longer the school waits to impose the punishment, the further removed any of the players are from the misconduct. McGee was on the staff from 2010 to 2014. While it sucks for Lewis and Lee, much of the current team were recruited by McGee. By the time the NCAA would have gotten around to imposing its ban it would have been 2018, at which point the vast majority (if not all) of players would have been entirely uninvolved. And by then Pitino may well have been gone--and if no longer in the NCAA could escape punishment entirely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But recruits would know that going in and can decide to sign their letter of intent and go through the punishment or not. These senior transfers have zero chance and zero decision to be made.

[nasdadjr]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Is there something wrong when a golfer calls a penalty on themselves? It actually helps the NCAA adminsitration to cut costs for investigation. I think that is why they take the schools attitude and helpfulness into consideration when administering punishment. UofL may still face additional sanctions from the NCAA, only time will tell.

There is everything wrong with it. If I robbed a bank can I put myself on house arrest during the trial and tell the judge to not sentence me cause I have self imposed time served? by the way I read the Parrish article and I have to say I have probably never read a better written sports article that made that much sense to me. Well done by Parrish

[LA Muskie]

Actually, criminal defendants who spend time in jail before or during trial DO get credit for time served...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

The longer the school waits to impose the punishment, the further removed any of the players are from the misconduct. McGee was on the staff from 2010 to 2014. While it sucks for Lewis and Lee, much of the current team were recruited by McGee. By the time the NCAA would have gotten around to imposing its ban it would have been 2018, at which point the vast majority (if not all) of players would have been entirely uninvolved. And by then Pitino may well have been gone--and if no longer in the NCAA could escape punishment entirely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK but that's not why louisville self imposed now. They did it to save their butts, which to me is a complete joke. If they did it next year that hurts recruiting and hurts the school way more than just giving up one march.

The joke of all of this is that today at the yum center, everyone had a shirt on their seat that said we got your back. Freaking hysterical since that's the last thing the school did. Louisville should be punished for what presumably happened but screwing kids that had nothing to do with it is wrong. The NCAA should instead hit louisville where it really hurts financially and with severe scholarship reductions. Also, ramsey should be canned, along with probably slicky ricky.

[nasdadjr]

I think we should call louisvilles move what it is... Louisville knows it has no chance to win this year so they are taking the hit now so in a year or 2 if they are good enough to win it all they don't get it stripped away at the cost of their seniors who get shit on after 4 years of work either there or at other schools.

[Xville]

I think we should call louisvilles move what it is... Louisville knows it has no chance to win this year so they are taking the hit now so in a year or 2 if they are good enough to win it all they don't get it stripped away at the cost of their seniors who get shit on after 4 years of work either there or at other schools.

They had as much of a chance to win the whole thing this year as much as anyone. They didn't do this because they thought they had no chance to win this year, that's the furthest thing from the truth.

[LA Muskie]

They had as much of a chance to win the whole thing this year as much as anyone. They didn't do this because they thought they had no chance to win this year, that's the furthest thing from the truth.

Seriously -- they are 18-4 and just beat a highly ranked UNC. This was nothing like what Syracuse did exactly a year ago. They weren't even going to make the NCAA's.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nasdadjr]

Seriously -- they are 18-4 and just beat a highly ranked UNC. This was nothing like what Syracuse did exactly a year ago. They weren't even going to make the NCAA's.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Show me anywhere in my post where I said they were not making the NCAA. Never said it but anyone can watch them and know they are not winning it all this year and that is the standard at Louisville so if they can't win it all they may as well sit out now so in 2 years when they will be able to win it all it isn't taken from them. If you think that isn't part of the equation in this decision your sadly mistaken

[paulxu]

I would think they had a fairly good chance of winning it all after their recent showing, and improvement.
This site thinks they would be a FF team.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/predictive-by-other

[Xville]

Show me anywhere in my post where I said they were not making the NCAA. Never said it but anyone can watch them and know they are not winning it all this year and that is the standard at Louisville so if they can't win it all they may as well sit out now so in 2 years when they will be able to win it all it isn't taken from them. If you think that isn't part of the equation in this decision your sadly mistaken

No sorry u are completely wrong and don't know what you are talking about. One, they can win it this year, two, Pitino didn't make the decision on this, ramsey did and all he cares about is saving his own ass. The reason they did this is because of what I said in my previous post and 2 because this keeps others from thinking of transferring and recruits like their McDonald all American vj king from not swithing schools.

[Xville]

Nm

[LA Muskie]

Delete

[HenryMuto]

As I also follow Cleveland State living in Northeast Ohio this was a tough one. I was upset that Lewis left CSU but I understood why. CSU had what could have been a great team this year with Forbes, Lewis and Grady if all 3 had stayed but once Forbes left last year to MSU it killed CSU and the other 2 followed this year. I was hoping Lewis would have gone to Xavier or Ohio State hated seeing him go to Louisville.

[Bearcat_Bounce]

Rumors are swirling that Mick Cronin will announce a non-voluntary postseason ban with the poor loss at Memphis today.

[LA Muskie]

Rumors are swirling that Mick Cronin will announce a non-voluntary postseason ban with the poor loss at Memphis today.

Ha! Nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DoubleD86]

Others have touched on it, but what I hate about this decision is doing it mid-season. A postseason ban is one of the few (somewhat) effective deterrents in NCAA punishments. Yes, whenever it happens kids who didn't do anything wrong will be punished, but the best you can do is make sure that everyone involves can make decisions with all of the information (re: transfer, commitment, etc.). That is where this punishment fails. Lee and Lewis are now screwed, and would not have gone to Louisville if this was known.

This decision was made to not derail future seasons or lose future recruits and Lewis and Lee are the ones paying for it. Just a shame.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

What Doubled86 said, this decision was made to protect the school. The school has failed Lewis/Lee and other transfers/recruits should do their due-diligence before committing to Louisville. The question really is whether this recruitment method left with McGee or if it was merely taken over by another assistant coach.

[GoMuskies]

The NCAA should grant Lewis and Lee sixth years if they want them.

[XUMIOH12]

Others have touched on it, but what I hate about this decision is doing it mid-season. A postseason ban is one of the few (somewhat) effective deterrents in NCAA punishments. Yes, whenever it happens kids who didn't do anything wrong will be punished, but the best you can do is make sure that everyone involves can make decisions with all of the information (re: transfer, commitment, etc.). That is where this punishment fails. Lee and Lewis are now screwed, and would not have gone to Louisville if this was known.

This decision was made to not derail future seasons or lose future recruits and Lewis and Lee are the ones paying for it. Just a shame.

this right here is the problem. you shouldnt be allowed to impose that punishment mid season. There are always going to be players getting screwed who shouldnt, but in this case the 2 players would have never gone to Louisville if they couldnt make the tournament.

[waggy]

Wait, didn't Lee and Lewis get laid?

[GoMuskies]

Wait, didn't Lee and Lewis get laid?

Probably, but not by the ugly skanks McGee used to employ. He'd moved on to UMKC by that time.

[LA Muskie]

Others have touched on it, but what I hate about this decision is doing it mid-season. A postseason ban is one of the few (somewhat) effective deterrents in NCAA punishments. Yes, whenever it happens kids who didn't do anything wrong will be punished, but the best you can do is make sure that everyone involves can make decisions with all of the information (re: transfer, commitment, etc.). That is where this punishment fails. Lee and Lewis are now screwed, and would not have gone to Louisville if this was known.

This decision was made to not derail future seasons or lose future recruits and Lewis and Lee are the ones paying for it. Just a shame.
I agree that a mid-season decision is pretty shitty. But the allegations surfaced in October. Should they have waited a year? I think the problem is the nature of the punishment, not the timing. I actually agree with Pitino -- hit the schools and coaches in their pocketbooks. Don't punish the (relatively) innocent kids. Of course that will never happen, but he's actually right.

[X-band '01]

How do you do that, LA - do you merely open your pocketbook and pay a big fine or do you merely withhold NCAA credits for a period of time? I don't like postseason bans of this nature, but it's the only effective deterrent right now. I REALLY don't like big programs being able to just buy their way out of trouble, either.

Word of advice for tonight - use your mute button if you're watching Louisville-Duke tonight. Dukie V is going to be extremely insufferable.

[bleedXblue]

I agree that a mid-season decision is pretty shitty. But the allegations surfaced in October. Should they have waited a year? I think the problem is the nature of the punishment, not the timing. I actually agree with Pitino -- hit the schools and coaches in their pocketbooks. Don't punish the (relatively) innocent kids. Of course that will never happen, but he's actually right.

Pitino kills me. Does he actually believe his own bullshit? And who is he, acting like he's some type of authority in "doing the right thing".

[Xville]

Schools should be financially hit, coaches should lose their jobs, ads as well...scholarships lost...schools can play in post season but should not be able to have any of the financial award. If the kids that are currently there had anything to do with allegations, they should be kicked out of school and not allowed in Division 1 athletics ever again.

I would think if you include all of these things, it would be a big deterrent. Kids who had nothing to do with the issue, should not be punished...period.

[bleedXblue]

Schools should be financially hit, coaches should lose their jobs, ads as well...scholarships lost...schools can play in post season but should not be able to have any of the financial award. If the kids that are currently there had anything to do with allegations, they should be kicked out of school and not allowed in Division 1 athletics ever again.

I would think if you include all of these things, it would be a big deterrent. Kids who had nothing to do with the issue, should not be punished...period.

Agreed, but how do you fix the Louisville situation? Pitino claims he had no idea....but lets wait until this all plays out. I have a feeling the NCAA is going to really dig into this thing.....wouldn't be surprised at all to see them get levied with "lack of institutional control". Pitino is going to have a hard time surviving this one.

[Xville]

Agreed, but how do you fix the Louisville situation? Pitino claims he had no idea....but lets wait until this all plays out. I have a feeling the NCAA is going to really dig into this thing.....wouldn't be surprised at all to see them get levied with "lack of institutional control". Pitino is going to have a hard time surviving this one.

I'm going back and forth on this one.....does it matter if he had no idea? Sometimes I think it does, and sometimes I think it doesn't....that's a tough one. I'm starting to lean on the fact that it shouldn't matter if he had an idea or not. He is the captain of the ship, and he should be fired if something like this happens on his watch.

[LA Muskie]

It no longer matters. See, e.g., Jim Boeheim. Coaches are now supposed to be held accountable for the actions of their staff. As well they should be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

It no longer matters. See, e.g., Jim Boeheim. Coaches are now supposed to be held accountable for the actions of their staff. As well they should be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Add Larry Brown to that list, too.

[Xville]

yeah but suspended for 9 games or whatever? Who cares....that's a slap on the wrist..they should be fired at the very least.

[paulxu]

Pitino kills me. Does he actually believe his own bullshit? And who is he, acting like he's some type of authority in "doing the right thing".

I think Mick's got the market cornered on that one.

[GoMuskies]

I think Mick's got the market cornered on that one.

And Mick was Pitino's lead assistant for a year or two. Coincidence? I think not.

Imagine how awful it would have been to have to spend time around that team!

[X-band '01]

Imagine how horrible it must have been to be around UC in the late 90s when Huggins and Cronin were on the same staff. Does anyone have the picture of both Huggins and the Gnome in their Hawaiian T-shirts?

But if you want to imagine a downright frightening coaching staff, picture Bob Huggins and Frank Martin together in 2005 at UC.

[LA Muskie]

Add Larry Brown to that list, too.

I left him out on purpose. He's a repeat offender and nobody believes he didn't know. But alas, technically you are correct. The NCAA decided they didn't need to believe his BS to punish him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Muskie]

yeah but suspended for 9 games or whatever? Who cares....that's a slap on the wrist..they should be fired at the very least.

I would hope the suspensions are without pay. If so, a 25-30% pay cut is nothing to sneeze at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Muskie]

And Mick was Pitino's lead assistant for a year or two. Coincidence? I think not.

Imagine how awful it would have been to have to spend time around that team!

The hookers and strippers probably helped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

I would hope the suspensions are without pay. If so, a 25-30% pay cut is nothing to sneeze at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ehh when it's guys like pitino, boeheim and brown it's not exactly killing them. It's akin to paying a parking ticket...probably not that bad but you get what I'm saying.

[LA Muskie]

Ehh when it's guys like pitino, boeheim and brown it's not exactly killing them. It's akin to paying a parking ticket...probably not that bad but you get what I'm saying.

You would think that, but they all find a way of living to their means. Taking millions away hurts millionaires. Billionaires? No. But garden variety millionaires don't readily throw 7-figures away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xu82]

Petino just now coming on Mike & Mike.

[xu82]

The administration didn't tell Petino why they got the post season ban because they want to keep him "in the dark". I'd say he's firmly entrenched in the dark if he had no idea.

A heavy financial penalty should have been imposed instead. How about....your paycheck?