Program Turning Points

[Roach]

A question crossed my mind tonight. As I was thinking about the rise of Xavier basketball during the modern era (1984 - present), I pondered - of all the big moments in Xavier basketball that I've witnessed or later learned about (I was too young to really remember much from the 80s), which was the most significant in elevating the program to its current prominence. I wish I could create a poll, but I thought I'd lay out those that came to mind instead, and ask whether there are any others and which people see as most significant. So, in chronological order, these came to mind:

1) The hiring of Pete Gillen ('85)
2) #14 Xavier over #3 Missouri ('87)
3) The handshake game (Crosstown Shootout '94)
4) The hiring of Skip Prosser ('94)
5) Lenny's shot (Crosstown Shootout '97)
6) The signing of David freaking West ('99)
7) #1 in the country, #2 in their own city, Version 2.0 ('99)
8) Were you there? Did you hear? ('02)
9) The Run ('04)
10) The hiring of Sean Miller ('04)
11) The Run, Version 2.0 ('08)
12) The epic, and epically disappointing, loss to K-State ('10)
13) The hiring of Chris Mack ('09)
14) Joining the new Big East ('13)

The moment that sticks out most to me is Lenny's Shot, but probably because it was the moment that my passion and loyalty to Xavier basketball were cemented. X had, at that point, a number of tourney upsets and consistently strong seasons under Gillen. Perhaps his hiring was the moment that really got the train moving. Thoughts?

[Muncie]

My list of most significant events ( note *), each of these events either contributed to winning games and/or gave us national attention which drove recruiting to higher and higher levels:
1. Winning NIT 1956, defeating Dayton
2. Steve Thomas , All American 1964 averaging over 30 ppg
3. Hiring Bob Staak, 1979
4. Sister Fleming, became academic adviser 1985
5. Opening of Cintas , 2000-2001
6. Elite 8, 2004
7. Big East, 2013-14
* obviously the hiring of all of the coaches following Staak, and the almost yearly NCAA appearances along with the many top 25 polls over the years, were major factors that contributed to our rise as a national basketball power. Finally the success of the Xavier players in the NBA has also been a big factor helping us to get attention and attract better and better recruits.

[X-man]

You need to add the 1990 win over Georgetown (with Mourning and Mutombo) in 1990 to the list. That was XU's Sweet Sixteen debut in the "modern" era.

[Masterofreality]

The founding of the Lew Hirt Society in 1986.:crazy:

[UCGRAD4X]

3. Hiring Bob Staak, 1979
4. Sister Fleming, became academic adviser 1985


I always considered the Staak hiring as the signal that Xavier was going to focus on Basketball.

Perhaps the regrettable and unfortunate loss of the football program was significant in that the school's resources, and the general idea of Xavier as basketball-centric materialized.

(I do like the addition of Sister Fleming as an important factor, not to be underestimated, but probably a whole 'nuther discussion).

[UCGRAD4X]

You need to add the 1990 win over Georgetown (with Mourning and Mutombo) in 1990 to the list. That was XU's Sweet Sixteen debut in the "modern" era.

I would certainly put this on the short list, for sure.

[Masterofreality]

I always considered the Staak hiring as the signal that Xavier was going to focus on Basketball.

Perhaps the regrettable and unfortunate loss of the football program was significant in that the school's resources, and the general idea of Xavier as basketball-centric materialized.


But not right away. There was a 6 year gap between when Staak was hired after football was dropped. Trust me, Former President Mulligan was trying very hard to basically remove any athletic funding. Always Learning can verify. But without the constant fight bu Big Jim McCafferty and Dr. Bill Daily, this school would basically be Loyola New Orleans right now. Thank goodness there were people to fight for a school identity.

[UCGRAD4X]

But not right away. There was a 6 year gap between when Staak was hired after football was dropped. Trust me, Former President Mulligan was trying very hard to basically remove any athletic funding. Always Learning can verify. But without the constant fight bu Big Jim McCafferty and Dr. Bill Daily, this school would basically be Loyola New Orleans right now. Thank goodness there were people to fight for a school identity.

You obviously have more inside information on this, but if the fight was "do we fund athletics - at all", certainly dropping football allowed the available, precious, argued-over resources flow in the direction of b'ball (perhaps as a compromise).

Football is a hugely expensive sport, and then with title IX mandates, it would have been difficult to impossible to fund men's basketball to any significant degree at such a small private school.

Just my generally uninformed impression at the time. I wasn't 'in the know' at the time but did attend both football and basketball (fieldhouse) as a young man.

[smileyy]

You need to add the 1990 win over Georgetown (with Mourning and Mutombo) in 1990 to the list. That was XU's Sweet Sixteen debut in the "modern" era.

This.

[X-Fan]

I honestly feel like the 07-08 beat down of Top 10 IU should be added. Not just that they won big, but they completely owned them. It's where the program swag and toughness really took a forefront. Also, the Elite 8 run that year. Man I loved that team.

[Seven Eighths]

A question crossed my mind tonight. As I was thinking about the rise of Xavier basketball during the modern era (1984 - present), I pondered - of all the big moments in Xavier basketball that I've witnessed or later learned about (I was too young to really remember much from the 80s), which was the most significant in elevating the program to its current prominence. I wish I could create a poll, but I thought I'd lay out those that came to mind instead, and ask whether there are any others and which people see as most significant. So, in chronological order, these came to mind:

1) The hiring of Pete Gillen ('85)
2) #14 Xavier over #3 Missouri ('87)
3) The handshake game (Crosstown Shootout '94)
4) The hiring of Skip Prosser ('94)
5) Lenny's shot (Crosstown Shootout '97)
6) The signing of David freaking West ('99)
7) #1 in the country, #2 in their own city, Version 2.0 ('99)
8) Were you there? Did you hear? ('02)
9) The Run ('04)
10) The hiring of Sean Miller ('04)
11) The Run, Version 2.0 ('08)
12) The epic, and epically disappointing, loss to K-State ('10)
13) The hiring of Chris Mack ('09)
14) Joining the new Big East ('13)

The moment that sticks out most to me is Lenny's Shot, but probably because it was the moment that my passion and loyalty to Xavier basketball were cemented. X had, at that point, a number of tourney upsets and consistently strong seasons under Gillen. Perhaps his hiring was the moment that really got the train moving. Thoughts?

Good list.

I would add moving games to the Garden, the 1990 Sweet 16, building Cintas, hiring of Thad Matta, the number 3 seed and West's National POY run.

[drudy23]

Whoever made the realization/decision to put much of the success and branding of the university on the back of the basketball program - and making it happen (with true investment) - and sticking to it to this day (not getting caught up in the football fiasco, which I'm sure is easy to do with all the money out there).

That is where it all started and continues today. Who had that vision? That person should get a statue in front of Cintas.

Is that Father Hoff's legacy?

[bleedXblue]

I personally think X should do some type of tribute to the former coaches who helped pave the way. I know Miami calls theirs the "Cradle of Coaches". Mine would include Staak, Gillen, Prosser and Miller. Screw Matta.

[bleedXblue]

Whoever made the realization/decision to put much of the success and branding of the university on the back of the basketball program - and making it happen (with true investment) - and sticking to it to this day (not getting caught up in the football fiasco, which I'm sure is easy to do with all the money out there).

That is where it all started and continues today. Who had that vision? That person should get a status in front of Cintas.

Is that Father Hoff's legacy?

Yep, and Bobinski deserves a mention as well.

[XUGRAD80]

But not right away. There was a 6 year gap between when Staak was hired after football was dropped. Trust me, Former President Mulligan was trying very hard to basically remove any athletic funding. Always Learning can verify. But without the constant fight bu Big Jim McCafferty and Dr. Bill Daily, this school would basically be Loyola New Orleans right now. Thank goodness there were people to fight for a school identity.

This was my time attending, and competing for, XU. I came in the year after they dropped football and was there until the year before Stack was hired. I really think that the Stack hiring and the decision to actually fund athletics run hand in hand, and was THE turning point. The rest of the things are important and enjoyable mileposts along the way. The change in direction by the university has led to success by not only the BB team, but by many other sports. Unfortunately, it has also led to the loss of some sports as there is only so much money to go around. But I would say that without the decision to start supporting and expanding the men's BB program, Xavier would be just another Thomas More College or Mt. St. Joe's. A fine university in its own right, but hardly what is considered a "major" player.

[xu82]

I always considered the Staak hiring as the signal that Xavier was going to focus on Basketball.

Perhaps the regrettable and unfortunate loss of the football program was significant in that the school's resources, and the general idea of Xavier as basketball-centric materialized.

(I do like the addition of Sister Fleming as an important factor, not to be underestimated, but probably a whole 'nuther discussion).

It's funny how perception is influenced by what you experienced. I'd say the Staak hiring, because I was there at that point. A LOT of very important events took place before and after that, but until the media coverage was there to make it readily available to me, they went largely unnoticed. Getting regular TV coverage was a huge turning point.

[xeus]

Not sure that this is a "turning point" but the graduation rate over the years has been instrumental in defining the type of program X has.

[MuskieXU]

15) Winning the BE (201*)
16) Making a Final 4 (201*)
17) Signing a top 10 type recruit (201*)

My next 3 turning points for the program, anyone have any others? Crazy to think we could legitimately knock all 3 off this year or next.

[WCWIII]

I don't necessarily look at turning points beyond Bill Daily (my uncle was also on the Athletic board) and Bob Staak and the great Tony Hicks, but rather; I look at the evolution of the program in addition to some great highlights.

With Gillen, we went from "We might make the tourney" to "We expect to make the tourney" to "We might win in the tourney."
With Prosser, "We expect to win one (unfortunately, only one) in the tourney."
With Matta, Miller, and Mack, nearly every year seems to be one where "We might make the Sweet 16."

If you look at the 350+ teams in Division 1 and see how few of them have making the tourney a realistic goal, let alone having the oomlots to expect to win in the tourney, you'll see that we are now an elite program.

With this said, this team and our presence in the Big East, might be the first part where we take a next step and be a program with yearly aspirations beyond the Sweet 16.

[XUFan09]

In recent years (the last ten that encompass my Xavier fandom), two stand out:

1) the inclusion in the Big East
2) the performance of the 2008 team.

Concerning the 2008 team, I remember talking to a professor of mine who was also an XU alumnus. The 2008 squad was preparing for the tournament and I commented that he had experienced this kind of team before with the Run in 2004. He said the difference was that this team was expected to be there deep in the postseason. That was the team that truly defied the mid-major label and got the media talking about the label too. It was the first time that Xavier was regularly defined as a major program, a program that transcended its conference affiliation. And then they went to the Elite Eight to drive the point home. Xavier teams have been viewed differently ever since.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

I think this program really took off when Dana's re-opened.

[muskiefan82]

This may seem silly and it's not really a turning point, but I do love that there has always been beer and free parking.

[Xpectations]

My list of most significant events ( note *), each of these events either contributed to winning games and/or gave us national attention which drove recruiting to higher and higher levels:
1. Winning NIT 1956, defeating Dayton
2. Steve Thomas , All American 1964 averaging over 30 ppg
3. Hiring Bob Staak, 1979
4. Sister Fleming, became academic adviser 1985
5. Opening of Cintas , 2000-2001
6. Elite 8, 2004
7. Big East, 2013-14
* obviously the hiring of all of the coaches following Staak, and the almost yearly NCAA appearances along with the many top 25 polls over the years, were major factors that contributed to our rise as a national basketball power. Finally the success of the Xavier players in the NBA has also been a big factor helping us to get attention and attract better and better recruits.

I don't necessarily see the first two as Program Turning Points. They may have been Great Moments in XU History, but Xavier went 183-290 in the 18 seasons after 1964. They made zero post season tournament appearances. And they had exactly 2 winning seasons in those 18 years (14-12 in 1976 and 14-13 in 1979). There were many dismal years where X did nothing to leverage any prior success.

[GoMuskies]

When Dayton passed us as a program.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Tough to define when these took hold, but losing the "Xavier (Oh.)" as our name in national print and the name "Egg-zavier" by national commentators.

[KabeX]

Hard to say one thing only but in my view (I'm 50 and was at X for grad school 88 - 92) Bob Staak was the primary catalyst. He brought the Big East attitude to Victory Parkway. For those who don't know, Staak starred at UConn after a year at St. John's. This was before UConn was a power but Staak was very good enough to draw interest from the ABA.

http://www.uconnhooplegends.com/menslegends/StaakBob.html

Ironic that Staak arrived at X the same year the Big East was formed (1979). He was 88 - 86 over 6 years. But 60 of those W's came in years 4 - 6, ostensibly after he got his recruits and system firmly in place. I'm sure some the "more seasoned" fans here can provide more detail and perspective but think about X in 1978 vs. X in 1984. Staak was huge.

The other event for me was Tuesday night. I used to always "think we can win against really good teams". Now I truly EXPECT to win. I expect to beat every team we play in the BE. I expect to win the BET. I expect a FF appearance this year. Of course my expectations don't mean squat. But I bet everyone on that roster and staff expect the same.

[paulxu]

A few years from now, this (hopefully) will be one of the biggest turning points. Maybe hard now to fully grasp the impact of the money, exposure, in-conference schedule improvement, national recognition...but with some conference NCAA success, joining the BE was critical for the program's rise.

So I like to look at this just to get me fired up; plus, I love the opening line of dialogue..."we own this city."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFLBFPr_GzQ

[nuts4xu]

Nothing propelled us into the "Golden Age" of Xavier basketball more than the hire of Bob Staak, and joining the Midwestern City Conference. Both events happened simultaneously in 1979, ending the awful Tay Baker regime.

We have a lot of events that would be signature moments, and great memories, but if you are talking about turning point moments...Bob Staak and the MCC were our first signs Xavier was serious about the basketball program.

This was before my time following Xavier, but in my opinion, it was the biggest turning point in Xavier Nation. Joining the A-10, the Big East, making the sweet 16 for the first time, knocking down the door to the Elite 8, were all big time signature events. They may even be turning points to a degree. But the "Golden Age" would not have started without Staak and the MCC.

[X-band '01]

The day that a posting from The Bob Huggins Political Machine was read in a court of law.

[X-band '01]

And no, Fred Garvin, we are not referencing that fateful day in Memphis in 2000. These are Xavier's capstone moments.

[JTG]

I would have to put the hiring of Staak at the top of the list. I graduated in '72, and the whole school was a mess, athletically and building wise. The place was floundering. Without basketball's success NONE, repeat NONE of those new buildings, nor Cintas would be around. Thank God Mulligan was shipped off somewhere else. He was quite possibly the worst administrator ever. Now, maybe the Jesuit headquarters, just didn't give a shit about Xavier, and sent him to Cincy to run the school. But, he damned near wrecked the place.
Staak's hiring showed that there was still a chance that Xavier could join the mainstream collegiate sports world.

[Roach]

I would have to put the hiring of Staak at the top of the list. I graduated in '72, and the whole school was a mess, athletically and building wise. The place was floundering. Without basketball's success NONE, repeat NONE of those new buildings, nor Cintas would be around. Thank God Mulligan was shipped off somewhere else. He was quite possibly the worst administrator ever. Now, maybe the Jesuit headquarters, just didn't give a shit about Xavier, and sent him to Cincy to run the school. But, he damned near wrecked the place.

I find that so odd if true. Jesuits generally love basketball. On a serious note, how does Xavier enrollment today compare to that of the years preceding the hiring of Staak?

[Emp]

I don't necessarily look at turning points beyond Bill Daily (my uncle was also on the Athletic board) and Bob Staak and the great Tony Hicks, but rather; I look at the evolution of the program in addition to some great highlights.

With Gillen, we went from "We might make the tourney" to "We expect to make the tourney" to "We might win in the tourney."
With Prosser, "We expect to win one (unfortunately, only one) in the tourney."
With Matta, Miller, and Mack, nearly every year seems to be one where "We might make the Sweet 16."

If you look at the 350+ teams in Division 1 and see how few of them have making the tourney a realistic goal, let alone having the oomlots to expect to win in the tourney, you'll see that we are now an elite program.

With this said, this team and our presence in the Big East, might be the first part where we take a next step and be a program with yearly aspirations beyond the Sweet 16.

Bill Daily was critical. At his recent induction as an honorary member of the Lew Hirt Society, he was eloquent about the mindset of the Mulligan era problems and the uphill battle to find an identity for Xavier. Glad to see his decades of behind the scenes labor being recognized.

[joe titan]

Some where joining A 10 must be considered b/c was major step in class for program. Also though Tay Baker was hardly instrumental to the overall program even back then, he did fabricate a modicum of respectability to the team.

[ChiTownMuskie]

I would add not a single event but a trend that can be traced back to the late 80's (older posters, you can probably take it back further): for the last 30 years, we have never really had a coach on the hot seat. I know Miller had some hiccups his first couple years and Mack has had his (well-documented here) detractors, but I don't believe we've had legitimate discord with respect to the head coaching position for 30 plus years. That's truly incredible. Think about some of the blue-bloods who can't say the same: Kentucky (Gillespie), Indiana (Sampson/Crean), UCLA (Harrick/Lavin), Michigan (too many to list)...

How many teams can say the same? Sure, Duke and Michigan State come to mind, but they haven't had turnover...has any team been able to get it right every single time for such a long time the way Xavier has? That kind of continuity of culture and good will can't be overstated, IMHO.

[Emp]

I find that so odd if true. Jesuits generally love basketball. On a serious note, how does Xavier enrollment today compare to that of the years preceding the hiring of Staak?

Before the Boomers came to X, it was a "day hop" school.......Elet and Marion were the only dorms. Meals were served in a big ol red barn. Even with Brockman and Alter, a small school of undergrads, 1500. The evening school MBA program (lots of P&Gers) was the only profit center. Virtually no endowment.

The basketball program upgrade was the singular catalyst.

[nuts4xu]

for the last 30 years, we have never really had a coach on the hot seat.

Bwaaaaahahaha! Are you relatively new to this board? Every coach we have had since (and including) Prosser has spent time on the hot seat. Granted it may not have been genuinely hot, as in heat from the AD, but the seat has grown warm at times for various Xavier coaches. Find me 10 people who wanted Skip to stay after he left for Wake, I will buy you a bagel of your choice.

If Miller's team didn't run the table in the A-10 tourney to earn an NCAA bid, he might have been the first coach we had to fire.

[ford]

After back-to-back NC's, we may look back at Edmond Sumner's growth spurt as a turning point. If he has that spurt a year earlier he's likely a McD AA and maybe we don't get him.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think we've ever had a coach (since Staak was hired) genuinely in danger. You're right that Miller was probably the closest.

[ChiTownMuskie]

Bwaaaaahahaha! Are you relatively new to this board? Every coach we have had since (and including) Prosser has spent time on the hot seat. Granted it may not have been genuinely hot, as in heat from the AD, but the seat has grown warm at times for various Xavier coaches. Find me 10 people who wanted Skip to stay after he left for Wake, I will buy you a bagel of your choice.

If Miller's team didn't run the table in the A-10 tourney to earn an NCAA bid, he might have been the first coach we had to fire.

I've primarily lurked for the last 5 years. With all due respect to the fine members of xavierhoops, being on the message board hot seat is considerably different than the actual hot seat. How many times in the last 30 years do you think the powers that be had serious conversations about making a coaching change?

I still maintain there is a very, very small list of schools in our situation.

[waggy]

I don't know if it was a turning point, but I think the most significant one thing was Byron Larkin's successful recruitment.

[xukeith]

Hiring Thad Matta was a HUGE move that jumped the program to levels.

Arguably the best XU coach ever.

[smileyy]

I would add not a single event but a trend that can be traced back to the late 80's (older posters, you can probably take it back further): for the last 30 years, we have never really had a coach on the hot seat. I know Miller had some hiccups his first couple years and Mack has had his (well-documented here) detractors, but I don't believe we've had legitimate discord with respect to the head coaching position for 30 plus years. That's truly incredible. Think about some of the blue-bloods who can't say the same: Kentucky (Gillespie), Indiana (Sampson/Crean), UCLA (Harrick/Lavin), Michigan (too many to list)...


Though it has been broken at points in the past, Xavier has a continuous coaching sort-of-reverse-tree that started with Pete Gillen, got a new branch with Thad Matta, and has converged at Chris Mack.

Gillen -> Prosser -> Mack <- Miller <- Matta

[smileyy]

Arguably the best XU coach ever.

Most critical, maybe. Post-Prosser was a real crossroads for the team.

[smileyy]

If Miller's team didn't run the table in the A-10 tourney to earn an NCAA bid, he might have been the first coach we had to fire.

In about a year I went from thinking "Well, maybe this coach is the first Xavier coach in a long time who just doesn't 'have it'" to "Holy shit he's going to have the pick of any job in the country".

[smileyy]

I don't know if it was a turning point, but I think the most significant one thing was Byron Larkin's successful recruitment.

The program probably isn't where it is without leveraging the local scene to land Larkin and Hill.

[X-band '01]

If Miller's team didn't run the table in the A-10 tourney to earn an NCAA bid, he might have been the first coach we had to fire.


I don't think we've ever had a coach (since Staak was hired) genuinely in danger. You're right that Miller was probably the closest.

Sean Miller would have had a warmer seat in Year 3 had they not won the 2006 A-10 Tournament, but it would be a moot point after sweeping through the A-10 for the most part that season. Compared to Kevin Willard at Seton Hall in recent years, Miller wouldn't have even been close to what Willard is facing right now.

Seton Hall is in good shape right now, but what happens if they find a way to mess the bed this year? That's why not all bracketologists are sold on the Pirates, even if their current body of work merits an NCAA Tournament bid for the time being.

[mid major]

I have heard Gillen mention it all started with Staak. I came to Xavier in 1984 and everyday I am thankful we are where we are; not due to luck but through hard work and ,at times, divine intervention. I have a lot of respect for the older guys on this board and on MM who were here through the very lean years in the 60's and 70's. Guys like MOR, Muskieman, Shadow and the late Mr Neutral to mention a few. I recall mentioning to my roommate's uncle we won 3 out of 4 shootouts and we would've probably won that game had it not been for Joe Stiffend. He looked at me quizzically and said X won 1 out of the 4 shootouts during his time at X. Enjoy the ride fellow Musketeers.

[xudash]

Turning points to me are strategic in nature; material in their impact.

There have been 3 since the late 70's:

1. Bill Daily.

2. The Cintas Center (Hoff).

3. Membership in the Big East.

All the good coaching hires and all the marque games fed the ability to get from one point to the next, but those were the moments that made one go "whoa!"

To MOR's earlier point, and as I may have shared before, I was the graduate school student rep to the University Budget Committee in '79. That meant I had the opportunity to waste 90 minutes of my life once a month for 9 months, as I was given the "pleasure and honor" of listening to Mulligan (God Bless him, or, as we say in the South, "bless his heart") wax on about nothing.

I sat next to his Comptroller at the time. A man who would adamantly go on about how inconsequential a successful athletic program is to a University. The guy was a smoker. His polyester count was always above 95% and he couldn't find a Brooks Brothers store if he were dropped in front of one. I had to listen to him, wondering if I was going to go up in flames from him accidentally dropping a cigarette in his lap.

Even with all that, I received a great education at X. Some of its business school professors were top shelf, and there were still a number of important Jesuit priests running around campus back then.

But to see what Xavier has become through these good decisions makes me proud. To know where it's headed makes me happy.

[xubrew]

I don't necessarily see the first two as Program Turning Points. They may have been Great Moments in XU History, but Xavier went 183-290 in the 18 seasons after 1964. They made zero post season tournament appearances. And they had exactly 2 winning seasons in those 18 years (14-12 in 1976 and 14-13 in 1979). There were many dismal years where X did nothing to leverage any prior success.

I agree with this. When you go from being good to being better, I don't really consider that a turning point. It's more of a stepping stone, or moving up a level, or whatever. A turning point is when you go from being one thing to being another. That happened under Bob Staak. Xavier has been good (relatively speaking) ever since.

I'm older than some people and not as old as others. But, the biggest stepping stones that have happened were the three years under Matta, where they finished the season ranked in the top 25 and not just made the NCAAs, but were so far inside the bubble they wore white in the first round all three years. His first year was my senior year, and that had never come close to happening before, much less happen three years in a row.

The second Elite Eight year was big, because it was the second one and it seemed to signify that we weren't just a one hit wonder.

As recently as this was, I think making the Big East final and then advancing to the Sweet Sixteen last year was huge. We had not been in the rankings for several years, and we had been struggling for most of the season up to that point, but came roaring down the stretch. That has carried over into this season, which is another big stepping stone. We're in the top ten, and we've beaten a top ten team on the road.

[GIMMFD]

Being young and becoming a Xavier fan after enrolling, this is a great history lesson, sure I knew about Skip, Thad, Sean all being here, etc, and Larkin and Hill, but it's nice seeing the older guys give a perspective of how things happening on campus/hires/etc. shaped how Xavier basketball is today. Thanks for sharing your stories guys. With that said, I can't contribute to saying the program turning points, I can say however, if we reach the Final 4 this year it could open in a brand new door of opportunities that would make the Xavier name recognizable all over. That in turn helps student enrollments, and boom, better program exposure.

[chico]

Turning points to me are strategic in nature; material in their impact.

There have been 3 since the late 70's:

1. Bill Daily.

2. The Cintas Center (Hoff).

3. Membership in the Big East.

All the good coaching hires and all the marque games fed the ability to get from one point to the next, but those were the moments that made one go "whoa!"



I agree with this. And the interesting thing is, as you alluded, is that these three events happened off the court. Dr. Daily's vision led to the hiring of Staak, which led to improved recruiting. Getting Byron Larkin to stay in town showed the locals that Xavier was making strides. Beating #1 UC showed the nation that this little school was on to something.

Those were building blocks which led to Cintas being built, one of the finest on-campus arenas in the country. That led to more improvements to the program, with Xavier going to the Final 8 twice and becoming a team that, while not thought of a power on the lines of the big boys, was certainly a team to be reckoned with.

That progression led to the Big East, and to the point we are now where this team is a legitimate Final 4 contender. Quite an amazing 30+ year run, and it shows no sign of slowing down.

[muskiefan82]

November 29, 1982. The day I sat down at Schmidt Fieldhouse to see my very first Xavier game vs. Union (KY). X won 75-62.This is the day my stepfather introduced me to his beloved Musketeers. Since that day, I have been able to attend at least one home game every year (normally more, but there was the 10 years I was in the Army and spent a lot of time away) except for one season , 1995-96. That remains the only season since I started going to games and becoming a fan that Xavier has failed to finish with a winning record. Since that fateful day in 1982, the Musketeers have also never lost to Dayton in Cincinnati.

Clearly, I am the turning point on which all of the success has hinged. Or maybe not and it's all a coincidence.

[XUGRAD80]

November 29, 1982. The day I sat down at Schmidt Fieldhouse to see my very first Xavier game vs. Union (KY). X won 75-62.

All anyone needs to know about the distance this program has come is right here.....the above game was conserved a "good" win just a few years earlier, and I doubt that the poster had any problem finding a good seat., even in Schmidt. If anyone tells you that even then they could foresee where it is now.....they are lying.

[muskienick]

My list of most significant events ( note *), each of these events either contributed to winning games and/or gave us national attention which drove recruiting to higher and higher levels:
1. Winning NIT 1956, defeating Dayton
2. Steve Thomas , All American 1964 averaging over 30 ppg
3. Hiring Bob Staak, 1979
4. Sister Fleming, became academic adviser 1985
5. Opening of Cintas , 2000-2001
6. Elite 8, 2004
7. Big East, 2013-14
* obviously the hiring of all of the coaches following Staak, and the almost yearly NCAA appearances along with the many top 25 polls over the years, were major factors that contributed to our rise as a national basketball power. Finally the success of the Xavier players in the NBA has also been a big factor helping us to get attention and attract better and better recruits.

Xavier won the NIT in 1958; not in 1956. But I agree that it was one of the gems on the tiara that is Xavier basketball.

[Masterofreality]

When Dayton passed us as a program.

That, and the one leg jump, will never, ever die on this and any Xavier related messageboards - nor should it.

[JimCoker]

All of these are great moments, but l think the thing that took this program to its current level was when Coach Mack made "the mutual decision" that Mark Lyons might be happier somewhere else. That signaled that Chris made the decision that the only way to get to the next level was for him to be the bottom line, and no one was going to derail his vision.

[xu82]

All of these are great moments, but l think the thing that took this program to its current level was when Coach Mack made "the mutual decision" that Mark Lyons might be happier somewhere else. That signaled that Chris made the decision that the only way to get to the next level was for him to be the bottom line, and no one was going to derail his vision.

I would expect some mixed reaction to that (get ready to duck - just in case), but I don't disagree. That's not hate on Lyons, but first things first. And the first thing is the team.

[UCGRAD4X]

All of these are great moments, but l think the thing that took this program to its current level was when Coach Mack made "the mutual decision" that Mark Lyons might be happier somewhere else. That signaled that Chris made the decision that the only way to get to the next level was for him to be the bottom line, and no one was going to derail his vision.

Although I certainly think it important that a coach establishes his position as 'in charge' - and I think each coach, worth his salt, does that to some degree (or, at least, should) in his own way. I'm hope you're not implying any of the other coaches, from Staak to Miller, failed to do this. Perhaps this is the 'moment' that Mack did it - and being a young, not particularly 'established' coach, it was necessary for him to make some statement like this. While it may be true that it was a turning point for Mack's tenure, and it that sense for the continued trajectory, but as a turning point for the program as a whole, I would not put near the top of the list. An argument could be made that not doing so might have derailed the progress of the program, but there was already a good deal of momentum behind the program, a decided upward trend.

[xu82]

Although I certainly think it important that a coach establishes his position as 'in charge' - and I think each coach, worth his salt, does that to some degree (or, at least, should) in his own way. I'm hope you're not implying any of the other coaches, from Staak to Miller, failed to do this. Perhaps this is the 'moment' that Mack did it - and being a young, not particularly 'established' coach, it was necessary for him to make some statement like this. While it may be true that it was a turning point for Mack's tenure, and it that sense for the continued trajectory, but as a turning point for the program as a whole, I would not put near the top of the list. An argument could be made that not doing so might have derailed the progress of the program, but there was already a good deal of momentum behind the program, a decided upward trend.

I agree it wasn't a "turning point for the program", but it was an important decision to continue the trajectory. Previous coaches surely had "player issues", but Lyons was clearly defiant and that couldn't be tolerated. Fix it, send him on, whatever. More of the same was not an option. I'd say things worked out for everyone, and Lyons still has a warm feeling toward X. That's where the magic lies. It's not always what you do, but often how you do it.

[sweet16]

That, and the one leg jump, will never, ever die on this and any Xavier related messageboards - nor should it.

Ah, the "jumping off of one foot" reference. The joke that's only funny to those athletically challenged.

[chico]

Ah, the "jumping off of one foot" reference. The joke that's only funny to those athletically challenged.

You know, you're the biggest douche I have ever seen on this or any other board. It boggles the mind just how much of an ass you are. I can't recall one post where you're not either bitching about another poster or telling us how great and how supposedly "well connected" to the program you are. 89 4 posts and not one is worth a crap - that's impressive. When I think of you (which, trust me, is only when I see your ridiculous posts) I think of Robin Williams' quote from "Good Morning Vietnam" to his commanding officer as he was leaving.

Sorry to highjack this thread, because it's been one of the better ones to read.

[Roach]

Being young and becoming a Xavier fan after enrolling, this is a great history lesson, sure I knew about Skip, Thad, Sean all being here, etc, and Larkin and Hill, but it's nice seeing the older guys give a perspective of how things happening on campus/hires/etc. shaped how Xavier basketball is today. Thanks for sharing your stories guys. With that said, I can't contribute to saying the program turning points, I can say however, if we reach the Final 4 this year it could open in a brand new door of opportunities that would make the Xavier name recognizable all over. That in turn helps student enrollments, and boom, better program exposure.

I concur. A hearty thank you to the elder members of this board who've offered their anecdotes and perspective in this thread about the program stretching back to years before my time. It really helps to appreciate where the program is today even more.

[sweet16]

You know, you're the biggest douche I have ever seen on this or any other board. It boggles the mind just how much of an ass you are. I can't recall one post where you're not either bitching about another poster or telling us how great and how supposedly "well connected" to the program you are. 89 4 posts and not one is worth a crap - that's impressive. When I think of you (which, trust me, is only when I see your ridiculous posts) I think of Robin Williams' quote from "Good Morning Vietnam" to his commanding officer as he was leaving.

Sorry to highjack this thread, because it's been one of the better ones to read.

Ouch! That's kinda' harsh. You must be in the camp with the other lemmings that think jumping off of one foot or two is some kind of joke. BTW, did you happen to hear Mack's post-game interview after the Seton Hall game when he talked about jumping off of one foot? He certainly didn't deliver it as a punchline but rather as a descriptive reference to a specific basketball skill. Go X!

[Masterofreality]

Bill Daily was critical. At his recent induction as an honorary member of the Lew Hirt Society, he was eloquent about the mindset of the Mulligan era problems and the uphill battle to find an identity for Xavier. Glad to see his decades of behind the scenes labor being recognized.


Turning points to me are strategic in nature; material in their impact.

There have been 3 since the late 70's:

1. Bill Daily.

2. The Cintas Center (Hoff).

3. Membership in the Big East.

All the good coaching hires and all the marque games fed the ability to get from one point to the next, but those were the moments that made one go "whoa!"

To MOR's earlier point, and as I may have shared before, I was the graduate school student rep to the University Budget Committee in '79. That meant I had the opportunity to waste 90 minutes of my life once a month for 9 months, as I was given the "pleasure and honor" of listening to Mulligan (God Bless him, or, as we say in the South, "bless his heart") wax on about nothing.

I sat next to his Comptroller at the time. A man who would adamantly go on about how inconsequential a successful athletic program is to a University. The guy was a smoker. His polyester count was always above 95% and he couldn't find a Brooks Brothers store if he were dropped in front of one. I had to listen to him, wondering if I was going to go up in flames from him accidentally dropping a cigarette in his lap.

Even with all that, I received a great education at X. Some of its business school professors were top shelf, and there were still a number of important Jesuit priests running around campus back then.

But to see what Xavier has become through these good decisions makes me proud. To know where it's headed makes me happy.

I will go to my grave preaching about the Greatness that is Dr. Bill Daily...and such a humble man he is. Bill will portray himself as just a guy doing his job, but he fought for something much greater than him and for a dream.

No one should ever forget or downplay the importance of Dr. Bill Daily to Xavier's overall growth or to it's athletic program success. Along with Big JIm McCafferty's vision, this school would be nowhere today.

I hope you young whippersnappers keep his name alive in honor for a long long time. He is arguably the Father of this baby.

[xubrew]

Ah, the "jumping off of one foot" reference. The joke that's only funny to those athletically challenged.

I find the intended hyperbole of over-analyzing something that doesn't really matter to be amusing. But, to be fair, I am also athletically challenged and have been since I graduated high school. Actually, I was probably athletically challenged even when I was an athlete.

[chico]

Ouch! That's kinda' harsh. You must be in the camp with the other lemmings that think jumping off of one foot or two is some kind of joke. BTW, did you happen to hear Mack's post-game interview after the Seton Hall game when he talked about jumping off of one foot? He certainly didn't deliver it as a punchline but rather as a descriptive reference to a specific basketball skill. Go X!

It certainly was harsh, but warranted because I've seen the potshots you've taken at MOR, 87 and others on here. It gets old, especially when it's on a thread about Xavier's greatest moments.

The "jumping off one foot" reference is a long-staring inside joke. I believe it goes all the way back to Romain Sato when someone suggested he couldn't jump off one foot and thus wasn't able to dunk. That's why MOR used it in response to the long-standing joke of Dayton passing us as a program. But I do find it interesting that you would make a comment about one's athletic ability to someone (MOR) who played college golf.

I'm not sure why thinking something is funny makes me a lemming, but to each his own.

I'm sure, though, that you can agree with MOR on his assessment of the importance of Dr. Dailey, because without him all this history would not have been made. So let's just leave it at that.

[Roach]

Ouch! That's kinda' harsh. You must be in the camp with the other lemmings that think jumping off of one foot or two is some kind of joke. BTW, did you happen to hear Mack's post-game interview after the Seton Hall game when he talked about jumping off of one foot? He certainly didn't deliver it as a punchline but rather as a descriptive reference to a specific basketball skill. Go X!

He has ample evidence to back up his assertion. I have never seen another Xavier supporter on this message board with a lower reputation score than you. That requires several board members feeling the same way about your posts. And to boot, Chico is right - you are a habitual negative nancy, and you frequently insult people.

[Xavier]

I thought we found out Sweet16 was a Dayton fan. Sure is a sensitive poster.

[Wheelhouse]

My parents are Xavier grads (technically my Mom was an Edgecliff/Our Lady of Cincinnati grad). My Dad always talks about the old days and how amazed he is about how far Xavier has come. As far as turning points go, I can't think of anything that hasn't already been mentioned so I'll just say this: what a program! It says a lot about Xavier basketball that everyone collectively came up with this many potential turning points over the last 35 years or so. I don't know if it's unique but it sure isn't very common in college basketball. It's been a slow and steady climb but through a lot of hard work (and probably a little luck) this program just continues to get better and better and better. It's been a heck of a ride...and it ain't over yet.

[X-man]

I think the ultimate turning point was me moving to Cincinnati from Washington, DC to take a job at Xavier. That was in 1984, just about the year the program started to really take off. So gentlemen, thank me for all that has happened to the program since then. And nothing says thanks as well as a microbrew from D'Artagnan's Deck, so who's buying me the first thank-you present?

[X-band '01]

He has ample evidence to back up his assertion. I have never seen another Xavier supporter on this message board with a lower reputation score than you. That requires several board members feeling the same way about your posts. And to boot, Chico is right - you are a habitual negative nancy, and you frequently insult people.

Sweet16 has the lowest score; LH is 2nd lowest. Sweet16 has accomplished the lowest reputation rating with half the posts that LH has. That is impressive work right there.

[D-West & PO-Z]

All of these are great moments, but l think the thing that took this program to its current level was when Coach Mack made "the mutual decision" that Mark Lyons might be happier somewhere else. That signaled that Chris made the decision that the only way to get to the next level was for him to be the bottom line, and no one was going to derail his vision.

I'm sorry, you believe the biggest event that led to Xavier being the current program they are was Chris Mack telling Mark Lyons it would be best for him to move on? Seriously?

[GoMuskies]

I get where Jim's coming from, but along that line of thinking I'd go with Mack telling Jordan Crawford to grab some bench at the start of the UC game. I think that was more of a tone-setting moment than telling Cheeks to go pound sand.

[xu82]

I get where Jim's coming from, but along that line of thinking I'd go with Mack telling Jordan Crawford to grab some bench at the start of the UC game. I think that was more of a tone-setting moment than telling Cheeks to go pound sand.

Yep, no one guy is bigger than the program. It didn't "make" the program, but may have kept it from getting derailed (to some extent). The amazing thing is Lyons moved on but remained loyal to X. That's a job well done. Really.

[smileyy]

Yep, no one guy is bigger than the program. It didn't "make" the program, but may have kept it from getting derailed (to some extent). The amazing thing is Lyons moved on but remained loyal to X. That's a job well done. Really.

I'm not all that certain there's as much bitterness and defiance and smacking down a petulant child as people are making out here. If Mark Lyons were content playing the SG role next to Semaj, he'd be on the team. He wasn't. There may have been some intense emotions involved, but there also seems to be some of:

Lyons: I want to play PG next year; it's better for me
Mack: I want you to play the 2 next to Semaj
Lyons: I can transfer immediately and play PG for some place like Arizona
Mack: Cool, thanks and good luck

I know this story isn't accurate, because Lyons probably wouldn't have used a semicolon. That said, this is a job for these guys, not any sort of testament to man's moral greatness or anything.

[xu82]

I'm not all that certain there's as much bitterness and defiance and smacking down a petulant child as people are making out here. If Mark Lyons were content playing the SG role next to Semaj, he'd be on the team. He wasn't. There may have been some intense emotions involved, but there also seems to be some of:

Lyons: I want to play PG next year; it's better for me
Mack: I want you to play the 2 next to Semaj
Lyons: I can transfer immediately and play PG for some place like Arizona
Mack: Cool, thanks and good luck

I know this story isn't accurate, because Lyons probably wouldn't have used a semicolon. That said, this is a job for these guys, not any sort of testament to man's moral greatness or anything.

I don't doubt that at all. In fact, it seemed to be handled in a way to avoid bitterness. That's well done by Mack, because there were times I wanted to yank Lyons from a game. I seem to specifically recall a few occasions where he went rogue and refused to run what was called and just did his own thing. Only a few people know what really happened and why, but it all ended well, and that's what's best for the coach, the player and the program. I don't think Mack was trying to slap or punish him an any way - just do what was best.

[XUFan09]

The "Lyons wanted to be played PG" story is the story Lyons claims in order to not look bad. Sure, it was something he wanted in a school after he decided to leave, but it wasn't propelling him to leave in the first place.

Mack established expectations for Lyons in the off-season, expectations that he knew the kid might not want to meet. And if he didn't want to meet them, there was an easy opt-out clause with the 5th-year transfer.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

Just don't understand the latent bad feeling for Lyons.
He played for X. He still has reference to us (Xu4life) on his twitter thing.
He left the A10 for Arizona...that's probably not a step backward, or down.

Why can't we look it as a positive for the kid instead of constantly trying to make him look like a bad apple.

[xu82]

Just don't understand the latent bad feeling for Lyons.
He played for X. He still has reference to us (Xu4life) on his twitter thing.
He left the A10 for Arizona...that's probably not a step backward, or down.

Why can't we look it as a positive for the kid instead of constantly trying to make him look like a bad apple.

No hard feelings on my part. There was a lot of good to go with some less fortunate stuff. He was a tough young guy, which helped him at times, and seemed to hurt at others. He was (and still is) young. I'm not holding anything against him. But I also won't pretend he didn't have "some moments". Don't we all? His were more visible.

[XUFan09]

Just don't understand the latent bad feeling for Lyons.
He played for X. He still has reference to us (Xu4life) on his twitter thing.
He left the A10 for Arizona...that's probably not a step backward, or down.

Why can't we look it as a positive for the kid instead of constantly trying to make him look like a bad apple.
Yeah, I liked Lyons more than most, I think, but I could see why he might not have been a good influence as a senior with a team full of young guys.

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[D-West & PO-Z]

Just don't understand the latent bad feeling for Lyons.
He played for X. He still has reference to us (Xu4life) on his twitter thing.
He left the A10 for Arizona...that's probably not a step backward, or down.

Why can't we look it as a positive for the kid instead of constantly trying to make him look like a bad apple.

Exactly, I mean the following quote was from Lyons right after it was announced he'd be going to Zona:

"I will always love Xavier," he said. "They took me in with open arms. I met a lot of good people. It helped me become a man."

Doesnt seem like there is any bad feelings there, and just seemed to be mostly mutually beneficial.

[Thor in 204]

Not the biggest, but a big help along the way was the work of Andy Mac on WLW. Andy was a big league play by play guy who added to the legitimacy of X as a program to be respected, and to have the games be broadcast on WLW was at the time a big step up.i

[Masterofreality]

Not the biggest, but a big help along the way was the work of Andy Mac on WLW. Andy was a big league play by play guy who added to the legitimacy of X as a program to be respected, and to have the games be broadcast on WLW was at the time a big step up.i

This is Verrrrrrrrrry true. The young whippersnappers who are under 35 don't remember that for years Xavier was barely on the radio, or not at all. For a few years, X was on 1360 WSAI with guys like Bill Meredith or Red Pitcher on the play by play. You could barely get WSAI reception past Erlanger, but some nights were better than others. SucKS dominated the media landscape and Andy Mac, while coming here to be primarily a Cincinnati hockey announcer, originally did Borecat games. That changed when he became Sports Programming Director at WLW. He became a huge proponent and fan of Xavier and fought like hell to get XU on The Big One, against a lot of odds. His kids became Ballboys at XU games. His stories are legendary of how tough it was to fight the Powers that Were. Very similar to how our own Great WKRQ had to battle for Xapvier space in the Cincy Post and Enquirer.

These guys are owed a huge debt of gratitude. That's why they are both venerated Honarary Lew Hirt Society Brothers.

[X-band '01]

I'm slightly over 35, but it's also noteworthy to point out that this was also long before we had the Internet and online streaming widely available.

[xu82]

Getting frequent and (semi) reliable TV exposure with the A-10 contract made it much easier for me to be a fan from afar. Hunting down the USA TOday to check national scores, only to be confused by Xavier-LA a few times, really sucked. When I could actually watch the games, it went to a whole new level.

[American X]

The mass migration during the Winter of Discontent to XavierHoops.com eight years ago this month.

SERVICE UNAVAILABLE

[UCGRAD4X]

This is Verrrrrrrrrry true. The young whippersnappers who are under 35 don't remember that for years Xavier was barely on the radio, or not at all. For a few years, X was on 1360 WSAI with guys like Bill Meredith or Red Pitcher on the play by play. You could barely get WSAI reception past Erlanger, but some nights were better than others. SucKS dominated the media landscape and Andy Mac, while coming here to be primarily a Cincinnati hockey announcer, originally did Borecat games. That changed when he became Sports Programming Director at WLW. He became a huge proponent and fan of Xavier and fought like hell to get XU on The Big One, against a lot of odds. His kids became Ballboys at XU games. His stories are legendary of how tough it was to fight the Powers that Were. Very similar to how our own Great WKRQ had to battle for Xapvier space in the Cincy Post and Enquirer.

These guys are owed a huge debt of gratitude. That's why they are both venerated Honarary Lew Hirt Society Brothers.

God bless Andy MacWilliams and the great 'Q' - and we are blessed to continue with Joe and Byron. Maybe not 'big time' announcing talent (Joe was originally color to Mac's play-by-play) but can't imagine Xavier game broadcasts by any other team (for a time, like red's radio without Nux).

[Masterofreality]

The mass migration during the Winter of Discontent to XavierHoops.com eight years ago this month.

SERVICE UNAVAILABLE

We've all migrated to Paradise...where top boobs, separated at birth and hot or not reigns.

[Wheelhouse]

Getting frequent and (semi) reliable TV exposure with the A-10 contract made it much easier for me to be a fan from afar. Hunting down the USA TOday to check national scores, only to be confused by Xavier-LA a few times, really sucked. When I could actually watch the games, it went to a whole new level.

This is so true. Since X used to be on ESPN only once or twice a year (usually the Evansville game), I can remember as a kid growing up in NJ in the 80s and early 90s and waking up the morning after a game, grabbing the Newark Star Ledger and going right to the scores/stats page to check the Xavier (OH) score.

[XUGRAD80]

This is Verrrrrrrrrry true. The young whippersnappers who are under 35 don't remember that for years Xavier was barely on the radio, or not at all. For a few years, X was on 1360 WSAI with guys like Bill Meredith or Red Pitcher on the play by play. You could barely get WSAI reception past Erlanger, but some nights were better than others. SucKS dominated the media landscape and Andy Mac, while coming here to be primarily a Cincinnati hockey announcer, originally did Borecat games. That changed when he became Sports Programming Director at WLW. He became a huge proponent and fan of Xavier and fought like hell to get XU on The Big One, against a lot of odds. His kids became Ballboys at XU games. His stories are legendary of how tough it was to fight the Powers that Were. Very similar to how our own Great WKRQ had to battle for Xapvier space in the Cincy Post and Enquirer.

These guys are owed a huge debt of gratitude. That's why they are both venerated Honarary Lew Hirt Society Brothers.

Totally agree. Hard to believe for many today, I'm sure, but there was a time when most of the greater Cincinnati area could not get radio coverage for XU games, and TV was only a dream most of the time. I commuted from the Finnytown-Wyoming area and even there I could barely pick up broadcasts on the old WVXU campus radio station. Getting reliable radio coverage on WLW was HUGE. It made it possible for kids all over the Midwest to listen to Xavier games on the radio. TV? This was before any of the cable/satellite TV channels were out there, so most people had only 5-9-12-19-48 and some of us could pick up 7 out of Dayton much of the time. Of course 7 was the channel that broadcast the U of Dayton games, so we actually could see them play pretty often, but I don't remember watching X hardly at all. Later getting regular TV coverage on channel 19 was big because when cable TV became widespread 19 was a channel that was sent via cable all over the country. This vastly expanded the potential recruit pool for X as kids all over the country could now see X games.

[zanesxu]

Want to echo the sentiment and thankfulness from the fellow "younger posters" on this thread... The story of X's basketball program needs told, reminded and shared...

There's almost a case study, 30 for 30 quality to it... Would be an amazing project for an XU undergrad to tackle... Like "The Run" but over the course of the past 30-40 years...

[UCGRAD4X]

Want to echo the sentiment and thankfulness from the fellow "younger posters" on this thread... The story of X's basketball program needs told, reminded and shared...

There's almost a case study, 30 for 30 quality to it... Would be an amazing project for an XU undergrad to tackle... Like "The Run" but over the course of the past 30-40 years...

There are a couple of books: Xavier Tales with DFW on the cover, and Out of Habit about Sr. Fleming to name two. Another i haven't seen about Mack, I think. (NEXT in LINE)

Will definitely need an update after this season.

EDIT: I assume all are available in the AF1 shop.

[paulxu]

All 3 on my bookshelf.

[X-Fan]

There's almost a case study, 30 for 30 quality to it... Would be an amazing project for an XU undergrad to tackle... Like "The Run" but over the course of the past 30-40 years...
That is a FANTASTIC idea! FS1 needs to make their own series and create this.

Can you imagine?!?!

"All For One: the building of a program (presented by Jeep)"
"The story of how a school and community built Xavier Basketball into an elite basketball program."
Stortyline:
- Starts with a basketball expert (maybe Gus Johnson) talking/marveling at X's NCAA accomplishments the past decade
- Jumps back to "The Beginning", program at a turning point, hiring of Bob Stack
- The Gillen years (Sweet 16)
- Prosser years (Join A10, #1 in the country #2 in their own city <gotta bring in Andy Mac for this one>, Tourney disappointment/frustration)
- Matta (DFW, The Run)
- Miller years (O$U heartbreak, Elite 8, Sweet 16, departure)
- Mack Era (Tourney Success, Big East, Top 10 status)
-- and whatever else happens to occur before this is recorded ;-)

[xudash]

God bless Andy MacWilliams and the great 'Q' - and we are blessed to continue with Joe and Byron. Maybe not 'big time' announcing talent (Joe was originally color to Mac's play-by-play) but can't imagine Xavier game broadcasts by any other team (for a time, like red's radio without Nux).

http://www.goxavier.com/news/2015/12/17/athletics_1217155814.aspx

[XUGRAD80]

Re: TV coverage then and now

Then....every once in awhile at best, usually against a "major" program like Notre Dame, Marquette, DePaul, U of Dayton (when they were "major"), but only as a regional telecast even then. National coverage? Not in our wildest dreams.


Now....when today's game ended my wife was face-timing our son via her IPhone. He lives in the Phoenix, Az. area (USAF!). HE was able to watch the game as well, and told me he also saw the Providence game this past Tuesday. Unthought of even being a possibility back pre-Stack.

[GoMuskies]

I find the intended hyperbole of over-analyzing something that doesn't really matter to be amusing. But, to be fair, I am also athletically challenged and have been since I graduated high school. Actually, I was probably athletically challenged even when I was an athlete.

Clearly what happened here is that Doosh16 was the one who seriously thought Sato had a problem due to his not jumping off one foot, and he's sore that it's still a message board joke lo these many years later.

[XUFan09]

Clearly what happened here is that Doosh16 was the one who seriously thought Sato had a problem due to his not jumping off one foot, and he's sore that it's still a message board joke lo these many years later.
The joke predates my time, so I learned what it was about but never knew who originated the preposterous theory. What's funny is that I always just assumed it was Sweet16. Looks like I was right lol!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[mid major]

There are a couple of books: Xavier Tales with DFW on the cover, and Out of Habit about Sr. Fleming to name two. Another i haven't seen about Mack, I think. (NEXT in LINE)

Will definitely need an update after this season.

EDIT: I assume all are available in the AF1 shop.

Another book which should be included on this short list is "To Seek Great Wonders" by Dr. Roger Fortin. It tells the story of Xavier through 2006 as one of the epic Jesuit institutions of this land.

[Muskeagle]

Another book which should be included on this short list is "To Seek Great Wonders" by Dr. Roger Fortin. It tells the story of Xavier through 2006 as one of the epic Jesuit institutions of this land.

Forgot that book got written....as a history major at X, I had Dr. Fortin for several classes....and really enjoyed him. I'll have to check it out.

[XfansinKy]

You need to add the 1990 win over Georgetown (with Mourning and Mutombo) in 1990 to the list. That was XU's Sweet Sixteen debut in the "modern" era.

Yea that was huge considering nobody knew that Xavier had a set of twin towers too. My favorite game of all time.

[X-man]

Yea that was huge considering nobody knew that Xavier had a set of twin towers too. My favorite game of all time.

Mine too because I had seats about 8 rows up at midcourt. My paid seats, of course, were so far up that there was a lag between what was happening on the court and the sound associated with it (I kid you not). But for the second round game, I was able to sneak into the bleacher seats set up beside the court for the first game (Purdue against somebody) and then when Purdue lost (and all the Purdue fans, who had the best seats (it was Indy after all) left), I was able to sneak down to the lower bleachers to see our own twin towers (Hill and Strong, I think) take down G'town's towers.

[paulxu]

INDIANAPOLIS, March 18— Everybody practices shooting. The Xavier players practice fouling and getting away with it. They did it masterfully today in a 74-71 victory over Georgetown in the Midwest Regional of the national collegiate basketball tournament.

''We didn't want to let them tie the game with a 3-pointer,'' said the Xavier coach, Pete Gillen, who twice told his players to foul the Hoyas in the closing seconds of the game.

It paid off. The Hoyas' David Edwards twice missed the first shot of a one-and-one free-throw opportunity in the final eight seconds.

Somehow we forgot this strategy when the OSU game rolled around.

[XU 87]

I went to my first XU game in 1974 with XU 50. The Tay Baker led Muskies beat Union 105-49 at Schmidt Fieldhouse in front of about 1500 fans. At the time, I thought X must be the best team in the country. I was so disappointed to learn from XU 50 that X already had two losses that season.

The Tay Baker years were followed by Nick Daniels and Steve Spivery and others and winning the Tennessee Classic over USC and TN. But really, the program was pretty bad, with Baker basically recruiting nothing but Cincinnati kids from the GCL or Cincinnati Public High School League and loading the schedule up with a bunch of D 3 teams, a few that he managed to lose to.

And then came Bob Staak (and the "Back Staak" t-shirts). Staak completely turned around this lousy program. My brothers and I knew Staak was good when we could actually look up his first high school recruit in Street and Smith magazine- Anthony Hicks, who was a Street and Smith honorable mention All-South. Some people mention Staak getting Larkin, but before that, Staak got Dexter Bailey, who chose X over OSU. That was huge back then.

And since Staak, we've had Gillen, Prosser, Mattta, Miller and now Mack. NCAA appearances, NCAA wins, Sweet 16's, 2 Elite 8's. From Schmidt to The Gardens to Cintas. From crowds of 1500 (estimated) to 5000 to our standard 10,200. From "buy 2 season tickets and get two free" to now having to pay very high prices for decent seats. And after all this, we are now in the running for a #1 seed.

It's been quite a journey to get to where we are now. It took a LOT of small steps. But it's been one helluva ride so far and pretty damn remarkable for a school X's size that also has a major public university a few miles away.

[skyking]

I agree with those who credit Dr Bill Daily. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I remember his committee developing a comprehensive plan to make Xavier "competitive". It included specific steps such as recruiting nationally for a top notch coach (Staak). It also included specific goals such as " being selected for a national post season tournament at least every three (or was it two?) years". Post season tournament was defined as the NIT or NCAA. Personally I thought - no way. We have come a long way.

[Masterofreality]

I went to my first XU game in 1974 with XU 50. The Tay Baker led Muskies beat Union 105-49 at Schmidt Fieldhouse in front of about 1500 fans. At the time, I thought X must be the best team in the country. I was so disappointed to learn from XU 50 that X already had two losses that season.

The Tay Baker years were followed by Nick Daniels and Steve Spivery and others and winning the Tennessee Classic over USC and TN. But really, the program was pretty bad, with Baker basically recruiting nothing but Cincinnati kids from the GCL or Cincinnati Public High School League and loading the schedule up with a bunch of D 3 teams, a few that he managed to lose to.

And then came Bob Staak (and the "Back Staak" t-shirts). Staak completely turned around this lousy program. My brothers and I knew Staak was good when we could actually look up his first high school recruit in Street and Smith magazine- Anthony Hicks, who was a Street and Smith honorable mention All-South. Some people mention Staak getting Larkin, but before that, Staak got Dexter Bailey, who chose X over OSU. That was huge back then.

And since Staak, we've had Gillen, Prosser, Mattta, Miller and now Mack. NCAA appearances, NCAA wins, Sweet 16's, 2 Elite 8's. From Schmidt to The Gardens to Cintas. From crowds of 1500 (estimated) to 5000 to our standard 10,200. From "buy 2 season tickets and get two free" to now having to pay very high prices for decent seats. And after all this, we are now in the running for a #1 seed.

It's been quite a journey to get to where we are now. It took a LOT of small steps. But it's been one helluva ride so far and pretty damn remarkable for a school X's size that also has a major public university a few miles away.

Great stuff and 100% accurate '87. All of the Seasoned Wise Heads have told me that Tay would barely leave the golf course. If there was a kid in town that had in interest in going to X, then Tay would take time out of his busy schedule to drive 10 minutes to see him, but don't ask him to actually leave his comfortable bedroom. The one thing that I will give Baker credit for is getting the great Joe Sunderman to come to Xavier...and the rest is history.

Yeah, it probably wasn't the best idea to hire a SucKS reject, but he worked cheap.....right in Mulligan's mode.

[XU 87]

I agree with those who credit Dr Bill Daily. My memory is a bit fuzzy but I remember his committee developing a comprehensive plan to make Xavier "competitive". It included specific steps such as recruiting nationally for a top notch coach (Staak). It also included specific goals such as " being selected for a national post season tournament at least every three (or was it two?) years". Post season tournament was defined as the NIT or NCAA. Personally I thought - no way. We have come a long way.

I believe it was one NIT or NCAA every three years. And yes, we have come a long, long way, to say the least.

Many, many thanks to Bill Daily and all the rest who helped jump start this sleeping program back in 1979.

[MADXSTER]

Don't want to start a new thread and don't wish to hijack this thread BUT has anyone else noticed a major uptick in Xavier conversations around the work place?

[GIMMFD]

Forgot that book got written....as a history major at X, I had Dr. Fortin for several classes....and really enjoyed him. I'll have to check it out.

I nominated good old Roger for teacher of the year (he literally let me call him Roger, and all kinds of other shenanigans in class..) loved him, he says he barely gets profits from the book but just loves to talk about the olden days, he's a class act, and a phenomenal professor. I recommend him to EVERYBODY.

[sweet16]

Clearly what happened here is that Doosh16 was the one who seriously thought Sato had a problem due to his not jumping off one foot, and he's sore that it's still a message board joke lo these many years later.

No, in fact I really wasn’t sure of the origin. The only reason I brought it up is because I honestly feel kinda’ sorry for those, apparently like yourself, who don’t intuitively understand the concept and thus don’t recognize that the joke is actually on them. The ability to jump higher off one foot or two is largely innate and is definitely an advantage (or detriment) relative to the position one plays. As an example, a post player who is tasked with rebounding in traffic will be much more effective if he can jump off both feet. To the contrary, a wing player who is quick enough to attack the rim will benefit if he can jump more effectively off one foot. And don’t take my word for it……….if you don’t believe it or still don’t understand it, google it. Got it, doosh?

[X-man]

I nominated good old Roger for teacher of the year (he literally let me call him Roger, and all kinds of other shenanigans in class..) loved him, he says he barely gets profits from the book but just loves to talk about the olden days, he's a class act, and a phenomenal professor. I recommend him to EVERYBODY.
Too late. My understanding is that Roger is retiring from teaching after this current semester after 50+ years at Xavier. We will all miss him.

[GIMMFD]

Too late. My understanding is that Roger is retiring from teaching after this current semester after 50+ years at Xavier. We will all miss him.

Shameful, absolutely a great guy! Though his son is a CEO of some Microsoft branch if I remember correctly, so he'll have a fun retirement.

[X-band '01]

The Snuggie Bus. 7 years ago today and I'm still kicking myself for not skipping work to go.

[Muskie]

The Snuggie Bus. 7 years ago today and I'm still kicking myself for not skipping work to go.

You and me both.

[Masterofreality]

The Snuggie Bus. 7 years ago today and I'm still kicking myself for not skipping work to go.


You and me both.

Too bad. You could have hung out with these two dudes: (Photo courtesy of Kahns Krazy)
1946

[GIMMFD]

Too bad. You could have hung out with these two dudes: (Photo courtesy of Kahns Krazy)
1946

Now those are guys I want a beer with.

[xu82]

Too bad. You could have hung out with these two dudes: (Photo courtesy of Kahns Krazy)
1946

If those are the same guys from the Lew Hirt society photo, seven years removed, I'm done with this team!!!


(Browns fans, I could understand.)

[Masterofreality]

If those are the same guys from the Lew Hirt society photo, seven years removed, I'm done with this team!!!


(Browns fans, I could understand.)

No...no Lew Hirt Society in sight there......

[nuts4xu]

Too bad. You could have hung out with these two dudes: (Photo courtesy of Kahns Krazy)
1946

Google "snuggle sightings" and you find a bunch of great pics from our trip. Still a classic!

1947