XAVIER vs PROVIDENCE

[letskeepitreal]

Whatever you have to say about Jalen. Double double!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Myles with 7 assists!

[Xville]

Really hope Jalen is this good the rest of the year. We need him if we want to get to where we want to get.

[Jesuit4Life]

HUGE ROADKILL

Never a doubt, right?

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[KabeX]

First road win against a top 10 in 20 years?

The team continues to impress.
Since Nov. of '96. Hummnn wonder who that could have been???

[Roach]

Just watched the post-game interviews. Mack definitely has pink eye.

[xavierj]

Boy what an ugly end but a Top Ten road win. No one is going to remember Providence on short rest and X with 20 TO's. A win is a win. Just win baby!

I don't think short rest had anything to do with it. They played their last game over 50 hours ago. These guys are in unbelievable shape. It wasn't like they played earlier in the day. These guys are used to playing all of the time. Xavier has 1 more day of rest and had to travel. Plus Xavier looked like the tired team, turning it over, fouling more and missing free throws. Providence looked pretty fresh to me, especially the last 10 minutes. I thought Xavier really toughed it out when things really were not always going their way. Xavier was in foul trouble all night. Xavier beat a very good team on the road and road wins are never easy.

[Section 200]

Very unusual box score for X: 6 more turnovers (20 to 14), 9 fewer Free Throws (8 to 17), 4 more fouls (21 to 17 but PC fouled on purpose at the end), and 3 fewer assists (13 to 16) and we win by 7 on the road - wow! We played rough and still won! Make the free throws and cut down the turnovers and we blow them out!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Dunn with 15, 8, 7, and 7 and we "slowed him down". Ha, that dude is good.

[NOVA]

First road win against a top 10 in 20 years?

The team continues to impress.

Congrats to X on the big win. I said it Sunday even after our game and all week: X and Nova are the two best teams in this league and i think there is a clear drop off after that. They have two tremendous players but don't have the depth needed to be a top tier team in my opinion. Again, congrats, I continue to be impressed. Can't wait until the 26th when I think we have have a battle of two top 5s.

PS: as for the battle of top 10s tonight, did anyone else find it shocking that this was the first time top 10s played in that building given the 36 year history of the big east i.e. Cuses, Gtowns, Uconns, Johnnies Novas Pitts? Lots of top 10 teams in the conference through the years.

[bleedXblue]

Just watched the post-game interviews. Mack definitely has pink eye.

Just unacceptable!!!

[Masterofreality]

A win....but we didn't play very smart and missed a ton of free throws that would have put this thing away a lot earlier. The missed frees were spread across the board - only 8-14 from the line. Thank Gawd Providence was tired. :tonguewag: That "fresh" team shot 6 air balls and had Dunn and Bullock leaning over at the knees with 8 minutes left.

[BMoreX]

Such a JP shot. If he misses, everyone is vilifying him right now.

Oh well, I laughed and loved it. That's a road kill.

[Jesuit4Life]

Just watched the post-game interviews. Mack definitely has pink eye.
https://twitter.com/CoachChrisMack/status/691407368563900417

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[drudy23]

Just watched the post-game interviews. Mack definitely has pink eye.

According to his Twitter account, he got stabbed in the eye with a fork by his son.

[xavierj]

Very unusual box score for X: 6 more turnovers (20 to 14), 9 fewer Free Throws (8 to 17), 4 more fouls (21 to 17 but PC fouled on purpose at the end), and 3 fewer assists (13 to 16) and we win by 7 on the road - wow! We played rough and still won! Make the free throws and cut down the turnovers and we blow them out!

Xavier also made 8 more shots on 11 less shots and Providence chucked up 34 three's. That is a ton of 3's.

[paulxu]

20 TO's. Not good.

50% shooting. Good.

[drudy23]

Xavier also made 8 more shots on 11 less shots and Providence chucked up 34 three's. That is a ton of 3's.

Especially when you suck at shooting them.

[xavierj]

A win....but we didn't play very smart and missed a ton of free throws that would have put this thing away a lot earlier. The missed frees were spread across the board - only 8-14 from the line. Thank Gawd Providence was tired. :tonguewag: That "fresh" team shot 6 air balls and had Dunn and Bullock leaning over at the knees with 8 minutes left.

The problem with Providence is that they just have zero on the bench. That will catch up to them.

[xukeith]

Providence's D was very tough. I will take a HUGE road win.

[GoMuskies]

Well, we beat a top 10 team on the road, so I don't really care that the game was ugly as sin. We're going to be right there with Villanova for the long haul this season.

[TUclutch]

We have a 6'3 220lb stud frome Kentucky coming in that has similar athletecism as ED just not quite as athletec. He's very strong and moves super quick for a guy his size. Like Dee, Austin would be a division 2 all conference type player.

Um Gooden is not 220. He is 6'3 175

[Masterofreality]

The problem with Providence is that they just have zero on the bench. That will catch up to them.

Absolutely. It was a factor today, thank goodness. We really did NOT play this game very smart. Ed was a total liability out there. Thank goodness for Myles and JP.

I'm happy with the win, of course, but not the way we played.

[Olsingledigit]

Just watched the post-game interviews. Mack definitely has pink eye.

He posted on Twitter that his little boy accidentally poked him in the eye.

[xu82]

Well, we beat a top 10 team on the road, so I don't really care that the game was ugly as sin. We're going to be right there with Villanova for the long haul this season.

Amen.

[Xavier]

Loved that Jalen played so well, don't mind flexing or anything like that.


But when he got the rebound late in the game and traveled (fell down) he slammed the ball which I thought was an automatic T.

[KabeX]

Absolutely. It was a factor today, thank goodness. We really did NOT play this game very smart. Ed was a total liability out there. Thank goodness for Myles and JP.

I'm happy with the win, of course, but not the way we played.
How's that go - "the best thing about freshman is they become sophomores".

[Olsingledigit]

Absolutely. It was a factor today, thank goodness. We really did NOT play this game very smart. Ed was a total liability out there. Thank goodness for Myles and JP.

I'm happy with the win, of course, but not the way we played.

I think Ed will be back next year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Loved that Jalen played so well, don't mind flexing or anything like that.


But when he got the rebound late in the game and traveled (fell down) he slammed the ball which I thought was an automatic T.

St. Johns got that called on them then we played someone (Georgetown?) the other day and they didnt get it called on them. I guess up to discretion of ref but I was surprised it wasnt called.

[scoscox]

Well, Xavier couldn't buy a foul call, so I can't blame Jalen for slamming that one. That was awful refereeing down the stretch.

[MauriceX]

Wow, Sumner had a pretty off game on the offensive end. 1 point on 0-9 shooting? An one of those misses was a wide open dunk. His rebounds helped though, he had 8 of them.

I do love our team's depth. If you gave me Sumner's stats against a top ten team on the road, I'd guess loss every time. The depth was also was huge in crunch time with two of our best players fouled out. Great team victory!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wow, Sumner had a pretty off game on the offensive end. 1 point on 0-9 shooting? An one of those misses was a wide open dunk. His rebounds helped though, he had 8 of them.

I do love our team's depth. If you gave me Sumner's stats against a top ten team on the road, I'd guess loss every time. The depth was also was huge in crunch time with two of our best players fouled out. Great team victory!

Myles carried the guard load. 7 assists.

[XUGRAD80]

Hell of a game! My heart can't take to many more like that. Congratulations to the TEAM. Certainly wasn't pretty, but I'm sure they'll take it....:)

[xavierj]

Wow, Sumner had a pretty off game on the offensive end. 1 point on 0-9 shooting? An one of those misses was a wide open dunk. His rebounds helped though, he had 8 of them.

I do love our team's depth. If you gave me Sumner's stats against a top ten team on the road, I'd guess loss every time. The depth was also was huge in crunch time with two of our best players fouled out. Great team victory!

Yes the 0-9 was not good at all but I thought he handled Dunn's pressure pretty well. Not a very good night but he only had 2 of the teams 20 turnovers and was being guarded by one of the best defenders in college right now. He will be better because of it.

[nuts4xu]

Absolutely. It was a factor today, thank goodness. We really did NOT play this game very smart. Ed was a total liability out there. Thank goodness for Myles and JP.

I'm happy with the win, of course, but not the way we played.

Like Mack said on the post game show, it was a big learning experience. Sumner had one of the best defenders in the country on him all night, and will grow from it. He had 8 rebs, and will bounce back just fine. Nice we have depth though, right?

[bleedXblue]

For long stretches of this game the foul differential was 7 or 8 and at one time it stretched to 9 I think. In todays game, its really hard to get that far out of line. The Jalen no call and then travel was incredulous. Total incompetence.

Sumner is a frosh. Just a frosh in a big time game playing against 1 NBA first rounder and another that will likely get drafted as well. The kid has talent but needs more time before we can "expect" things.

[xu82]

Myles carried the guard load. 7 assists.

Yes, Mack wisely went with the solid experienced hand. Hey, we beat a top 10 team on their court, all is awesome!

[drudy23]

We beat #10 on the road...nothing else matters.

[Blue Blobs Bro]

20 secs left on shot clock when JP hit that 3!!! HAHAHAHA

Only player in the country who would take that without a flinch.

[Xavier]

Only player in the country who would take that without a flinch.

Ha...I doubt that but glad JP took it.

[MauriceX]

For long stretches of this game the foul differential was 7 or 8 and at one time it stretched to 9 I think. In todays game, its really hard to get that far out of line. The Jalen no call and then travel was incredulous. Total incompetence.

Sumner is a frosh. Just a frosh in a big time game playing against 1 NBA first rounder and another that will likely get drafted as well. The kid has talent but needs more time before we can "expect" things.

I usually try to ignore the foul differential and I hope refs do too. Sometimes teams foul more than others, and the refs shouldn't try to keep the foul count even if that is the case. Having said that, I did notice several times tonight that there were inconsistent calls, and mostly (but not always) favoring Providence. Good teams overcome bad calls though, and we managed to do that tonight.

[Muskeagle]

What happens to unused first half timeouts?

They ship them off to poor families in 3rd World Countries in Africa and South America.

[Muskeagle]

Clutch game!! Nice stones at the end. JP with a huge shot. Blueitt with a couple of big plays back to back! A Jalen Reynolds sighting. Leadership from Davis. LOVE THIS TEAM!!!

[GoMuskies]

Xavier has been the beneficiary of an 8+ foul differential at home 4 times this year. So it's not that uncommon.

[paulxu]

Only player in the country who would take that without a flinch.

Coming back up court after the shot, no expression on his face, business as usual. Cold.

[American X]

EVERYTHING is awesome!

Fixed that for you.

https://bostongazette.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/the-lego-movie-awesome-e1392309318427.png?w=300

[GoMuskies]

Hell, it's even Taco Tuesday.

[TUclutch]

Only player in the country who would take that without a flinch.

Buddy Hield would no doubt. Arcidiacono would. Bet Kris Dunn would. DSR probably would.

Macura isn't even the only guy on this team who has the confidence to take that. Myles would if open like that.

[Caveat]

St. Johns got that called on them then we played someone (Georgetown?) the other day and they didnt get it called on them. I guess up to discretion of ref but I was surprised it wasnt called.

Yup. No called in the Georgetown game at Cintas.

[XMuskieFTW]

Yup. No called in the Georgetown game at Cintas.

I think they won't call the slammed ball occasionally if they think it is due to the player being frustrated with himself. Although, I question if that was the case tonight.

[bobbiemcgee]

Clutch game!! Nice stones at the end. JP with a huge shot.

With 20 seconds on the shot clock and Mack begging for a time-out. Just Jp jping.

[profson]

Observations from inside the building in a very satisfying victory.

- the place was electric, so keeping a good lead for a long time was important
- lots of contributors but to me the MVP was clearly Davis. Single handedly took care of the pressure, particularly on a day that Sumner was MIA (to put it mildly), managed the offense, kept the team calm in times of stress and made drives at critical points that one would not think a player of his limited physical skills could pull off
- very lucky not to get a T, at a bad time, when Jalen slammed the ball. Whether he had a reason to be upset is irrelevant - one of these days his cluelessness will cost
- using the 1-3-1 extensively was a no-brainer; it controlled Dunn and kept Jalen's fouls down; if we lost because they got hot from 3 so be it
- for those who are quick to anoint a good college player, especially a big, as an NBA'er, Ben Bentil is what a pro prospect looks like

[XUMIOH12]

that was a damn good win!

[scoscox]

For all the talk of no great teams, not great basketball, etc. that was a great game.

[GoMuskies]

For all the talk of no great teams, not great basketball, etc. that was a great game.

Great win and very competitive, but it wasn't a particularly well played game. Xavier gave the ball away and missed lots of key free throws. Providence threw up too many airballs to count and missed 18 of their first 19 3s.

I'm thrilled with the win, but this game will NOT be in the rotation when FS1 has their own FS1 Classic.

[scoscox]

Ha, true. It was exciting though and the finish with Trevon's putback and macura's 3 were huge. It helped that the Dunk was losing it's mind the majority of the game.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I know this may sound crazy....this is just from my grade school training. But I think if you slam the ball and catch it (in the heat of the game...not out of anger at refs), it's not a foul. If that ball had hit the floor, jalen would have got a tech. But he caught it. Refs don't call slamming the ball....they call it once it hits the floor

Someone tell me I'm not imagining this....

[LA Muskie]

Only player in the country who would take that without a flinch.

Look at the replay. I think he actually did flinch. Can't not take that shot. If you are JP.


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[LA Muskie]

I think they won't call the slammed ball occasionally if they think it is due to the player being frustrated with himself. Although, I question if that was the case tonight.

Ha! I agree. And it almost certainly wasn't.


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[LA Muskie]

I know this may sound crazy....this is just from my grade school training. But I think if you slam the ball and catch it (in the heat of the game...not out of anger at refs), it's not a foul. If that ball had hit the floor, jalen would have got a tech. But he caught it. Refs don't call slamming the ball....they call it once it hits the floor

Someone tell me I'm not imagining this....

Um...it flew 12 feet in the air. The catch is almost always irrelevant. We got lucky there.


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[Nigel Tufnel]

Um...it flew 12 feet in the air. The catch is almost always irrelevant. We got lucky there.


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You may be right...but for some irrational reason, I think catching it matters. Pretty sure the rule is if the ball hits the ground after a slam, it's a T.

[scoscox]

There's no rule regarding the situation at all, refs usually just T a player up for it. They consider it showing them up and Jalen should've gotten one there, but the refs swallowed their whistle after all the practice they had been putting in on that front against Xavier

[MauriceX]

There's no rule regarding the situation at all, refs usually just T a player up for it. They consider it showing them up and Jalen should've gotten one there, but the refs swallowed their whistle after all the practice they had been putting in on that front against Xavier

I just went to the official rule book (link (http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR17.pdf)) and you are correct, there is no rule regarding slamming the ball. However, it could be interpreted to fall into either of these rules:

Rule 10, Section 3, Article 1.a. - Disrespectfully addressing an official or gesturing in such a manner as to indicate resentment. (is slamming the ball a gesture that indicates resentment?)

Rule 10, Section 4, Article 1.l. - After a team warning has been issued, attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a goal or failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after the whistle had been blown. (Requires a warning first, but slamming the ball is not immediately passing to an official after the whistle has been blown)

[GoMuskies]

Macura got a delay of game warning for Xavier earlier in the game after a made basket.

[LA Muskie]

Are we really complaining about the OVERALL officiating in the game? My gawd...


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[MauriceX]

Are we really complaining about the OVERALL officiating in the game? My gawd...


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I don't think we are complaining. I think we are saying we were lucky that we didn't get a technical.

[LA Muskie]

We certainly were. But I'm pretty sure there are some that are also complaining about the officiating in general.


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[sirthought]

Everyone is talking about sloppy play, but I didn't really it that way.

It was a really competitive fight out on that floor. Yes, they had way more turnovers than usual, but I viewed it as being due to Providence being so tough on defense. There were times in the first half where X just wasn't sure how to get the ball inside the 3 point stripe. Passing took some time. And…Kris Dunn.

Lots of outside shooting in this game led to some wacky rebounding attempts. Nothing was perfect, but compared to some games where it seems to be a lack of focus or understanding, I think the players were very tuned in tonight, but moving the ball where you wanted it was a challenge.

(That's my story and I'm sticking to it!)

[scoscox]

There's a rule about an unsportsman technical or something where it basically says you can't show up the refs and that's what it usually falls under.

[MauriceX]

We certainly were. But I'm pretty sure there are some that are also complaining about the officiating in general.


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Gotcha. Unnecessary misunderstanding avoided! :drinks:

In other game related news:
The AP write-up mentions there were lots of NBA scouts at the game (8 teams represented). They were most likely there for Dunn and Bentil, but it is still an interesting note.

Also, Jeff Goodman was at the game and had a write-up (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/110737/xaviers-bench-and-balance-make-the-difference-against-providence) for ESPN. I thought it was pretty good. Highlighted the good and the bad from both teams.

[LA Muskie]

Everyone is talking about sloppy play, but I didn't really it that way.

It was a really competitive fight out on that floor. Yes, they had way more turnovers than usual, but I viewed it as being due to Providence being so tough on defense. There were times in the first half where X just wasn't sure how to get the ball inside the 3 point stripe. Passing took some time. And…Kris Dunn.

You say potato, I say potato. You say tomato, I say tomato. Potato, potato. Tomato, tomato. Let's call the whole thing off.


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[MauriceX]

There's a rule about an unsportsman technical or something where it basically says you can't show up the refs and that's what it usually falls under.

That's the Rule 10, Section 3, Article 1 that I quoted earlier. Section 3 contains all of the unsportsmanlike technical fouls.

[LA Muskie]

Gotcha. Unnecessary misunderstanding avoided! :drinks:

In! (Raises glass to lips...)


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[scoscox]

That's the Rule 10, Section 3, Article 1 that I quoted earlier. Section 3 contains all of the unsportsmanlike technical fouls.

Right, it's called an overt gesture tech in the NBA. Kind of absurd if you ask me, but refs have to keep their pride I guess.

[muskienick]

Providence is shooting bad because they're fatigued. #FactsOfLife

Xavier's D is not exactly chopped liver!

[smileyy]

Dunn with 15, 8, 7, and 7 and we "slowed him down". Ha, that dude is good.

He needed 16 FGA to get those 15 points. That's some good work keeping his efficiency down.

[smileyy]

The AP write-up mentions there were lots of NBA scouts at the game (8 teams represented). They were most likely there for Dunn and Bentil, but it is still an interesting note.


Sumner and Bluiett too. Bluiett could be a 3-and-D guy, if he can be smart enough on defense to make up for his lack of quickness.

[markchal]

Great w, but it feels like were missing a lot of front ends on 1-1s lately. Need to be better at the line.

[nasdadjr]

Taking nothing away from bentil and Dunn but I don't see how providence makes it out of the first weekend again. You need more than 2 guys to make a run and they don't have it. At the very end they were gassed and guess what... In the tournament you only get a 1 day layover. I like their players but I think they win 1 and are done cause of lack of any scoring outside of 2 guys

[UCGRAD4X]

Taking nothing away from bentil and Dunn but I don't see how providence makes it out of the first weekend again. You need more than 2 guys to make a run and they don't have it. At the very end they were gassed and guess what... In the tournament you only get a 1 day layover. I like their players but I think they win 1 and are done cause of lack of any scoring outside of 2 guys

Hope you are wrong.

If they get a good enough seed to cake-walk the first round game - depth is not as much of an issue.

Also, whomever they play will also only have one day rest.

[X-Fan]

Does Jalen really need to be flexing? Come on man.


I think it was a bit of trolling, since I'm pretty sure his defender just flopped.

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Exactly. Showing up the opposing student section isn't the best way to quiet the crowd.
Just Jalen being Jalen. He did the same thing at Michigan.

By my count X is 2-0 when Jalen flexes. lol

[Xville]

Sumner and Bluiett too. Bluiett could be a 3-and-D guy, if he can be smart enough on defense to make up for his lack of quickness.

Love tre, but he doesn't have a position in the nba. Not athletic enough to be a 2, he would get eaten alive, and too short for a 3. Great college player though...you can see even in college though he struggles sometimes athletically

[X-Fan]

Such a JP shot. If he misses, everyone is vilifying him right now.

Oh well, I laughed and loved it. That's a road kill.
Honestly, in the moment, I was fine with him taking that shot. JP is a pure shooter, and has that killer instinct. He was WIDE open, but it took HUGE guts!

JP & Jalen: Activated

Lets Go X!!!!

[bleedXblue]

Love tre, but he doesn't have a position in the nba. Not athletic enough to be a 2, he would get eaten alive, and too short for a 3. Great college player though...you can see even in college though he struggles sometimes athletically

exactly IM sure he'll play somewhere though.....Europe maybe

[bleedXblue]

Taking nothing away from bentil and Dunn but I don't see how providence makes it out of the first weekend again. You need more than 2 guys to make a run and they don't have it. At the very end they were gassed and guess what... In the tournament you only get a 1 day layover. I like their players but I think they win 1 and are done cause of lack of any scoring outside of 2 guys

They have more than enough talent to make a run. Dunn and Bentil are beasts. Their complimentary players last night just struggled.

[XUMIOH12]

You may be right...but for some irrational reason, I think catching it matters. Pretty sure the rule is if the ball hits the ground after a slam, it's a T.

catching it on the way up after it bounces off the floor is what you are thinking of. Like if you slam it on the floor but catch it on the way up and it doesnt go flying way up in the air. Either way it was nice of the officials to not make that call that would have a huge effect on the end of the game.

[XUMIOH12]

They have more than enough talent to make a run. Dunn and Bentil are beasts. Their complimentary players last night just struggled.

right. they have some solid complimentary players, those guys just didnt do anything last night. And Dunn/Bentil is arguably the best combo in college basketball.

[eXdrummer]

He needed 16 FGA to get those 15 points. That's some good work keeping his efficiency down.

Also, not sure how many but I'm guessing a lot of his made field goals were fast break dunks or layups. That's not a result of bad defense (unless you count fast break defense).

[XUMIOH12]

Love tre, but he doesn't have a position in the nba. Not athletic enough to be a 2, he would get eaten alive, and too short for a 3. Great college player though...you can see even in college though he struggles sometimes athletically

for sure. He will end being an amazing 4 year college player.

[xavierj]

Love tre, but he doesn't have a position in the nba. Not athletic enough to be a 2, he would get eaten alive, and too short for a 3. Great college player though...you can see even in college though he struggles sometimes athletically

You may be right but Tre is already showing up on Mock drafts after his jr. Season. I have also heard there is been talk that he was thinking after this year. But that would be crazy.

[paulxu]

From the ESPN article:


Chris Mack has done a job that deserves National Coach of the Year consideration

That'll put a dent in the Fire Mack thread.

[Caveat]

Love tre, but he doesn't have a position in the nba. Not athletic enough to be a 2, he would get eaten alive, and too short for a 3. Great college player though...you can see even in college though he struggles sometimes athletically

Yup. About the only NBA-level skill Tre has is his release time, which is fantastic for a college player and part of the reason why he gets so many good looks from deep. But, otherwise, he doesn't have the overall quickness to play against NBA guards.

[bleedXblue]

Yup. About the only NBA-level skill Tre has is his release time, which is fantastic for a college player and part of the reason why he gets so many good looks from deep. But, otherwise, he doesn't have the overall quickness to play against NBA guards.

Or size. He's only 6'5 and would be matched against guys who are 6'7 and 6'8.

[ammtd34]

Can we let Trevon be a really good sophomore instead of trying to prove why he won't play in the NBA? This seems to come up once a week.

[Caveat]

Can we let Trevon be a really good sophomore instead of trying to prove why he won't play in the NBA? This seems to come up once a week.

It's no knock on anyone to say they aren't "NBA material" -- there are really only a handful of people in the entirety of D1 at any given time who are. The NBA requires a very specific combination of skill set matched with size.

As an aside, while it's fun to watch the NBA, it lacks part of the appeal of college basketball. Namely, that there isn't the extreme orthodoxy regarding size/position/skill. You can have a guy like JP, who is an outstanding defender at the top of the 1-3-1 -- whereas in the NBA that skill is as useful as auto repair, since no one in the NBA would ever run a 1-3-1.

[CSS85]

Love tre, but he doesn't have a position in the nba. Not athletic enough to be a 2, he would get eaten alive, and too short for a 3. Great college player though...you can see even in college though he struggles sometimes athletically

Draymond Green agrees with you.

[Xville]

Draymond Green agrees with you.

Not sure what you mean? Green is a 3/4 tweener who is at least two inches taller than Tre...thats quite a bit different than a 2/3 tweener.

I love Tre and his game, but guys like Tre are a dime a dozen in college..good thing is that he could still go to Europe and make a boatload of money when his college career is over.

[ammtd34]

Not sure what you mean? Green is a 3/4 tweener who is at least two inches taller than Tre...thats quite a bit different than a 2/3 tweener.

I love Tre and his game, but guys like Tre are a dime a dozen in college..good thing is that he could still go to Europe and make a boatload of money when his college career is over.

No they aren't.

[SemajParlor]

I have been to many Xavier games away from Cintas. I have to say that the Dunkin Donuts center was probably the loudest arena I've ever been in last night. Absolutely deafening.

[CSS85]

Not sure what you mean? Green is a 3/4 tweener who is at least two inches taller than Tre...thats quite a bit different than a 2/3 tweener.

I love Tre and his game, but guys like Tre are a dime a dozen in college..good thing is that he could still go to Europe and make a boatload of money when his college career is over.

Only that Green was said to be too small for his position, a "tweener" without an NBA position due to size/athleticism limitations. A really great college player that would at best be a role player in the NBA. Just saying don't sell players short until they prove they can't produce.

[sgarcia]

That was a great win last night even though it got very dicey late. That arena sounded nuts the first 5 minutes of the game. Lots of great takeaway from last night. The defense was very active and moving their hands a lot which made it harder for Providence to get really good looks. The bench came through big with James in the 1st half and JP in the 2nd half. Jalen was excellent last night and hopefully he can play closer to that level than the level he's played over the past few weeks. Sumner stunk but didn't let it affect his defense and kept his head up the whole night. He really is getting a rude awakening against the experienced PG's in the conference but that should push him to bring his game to another level going forward. The only negatives I saw last night was not running the baseline when we are being pressed and too many predictable passes leading to turnovers and easy breakouts. I think we need some more off the ball movement and screens just to keep the opponent off guard. It's too predictable at times when we just pass around the top of the key for 15 seconds before dumping it inside or running side pick & roll. Other than that, as Mark Jones said during the college football season, "What a time to be alive!" 18-2 lives here.

[XUMIOH12]

Only that Green was said to be too small for his position, a "tweener" without an NBA position due to size/athleticism limitations. A really great college player that would at best be a role player in the NBA. Just saying don't sell players short until they prove they can't produce.

Draymond Green was also one of the most physical players around who played great defense and was one of the top rebounders in college basketball.

[XUMIOH12]

No they aren't.

i think he just means that there are plenty of players his size and position who have the same kind of game as Bluiett. He is a very good shooter and rebounds pretty well. But aside from that, he really doesnt do anything that special.

[Xville]

I don't think some of you realize just how ridiculously hard it is to make the NBA, and then even if you make it, to actually stay on a roster. Draymond Green by the way was the Big 10 player of the year his Senior year. Anyways, I'm not knocking Tre, he's a great player...he's just not an NBA player.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Loved it last night: we're in a New World.

Something to fix:

Seriously: Are there drills Mack can install in practice to tighten up the close-in, under the basket passing.

Many of those feeds are marvelously creative and seem to be catchable. If they were caught, it would be bunny points.

But a number of them go "incomplete," bounce around and get turned the other way.

Grrrr.

You guys who coach -- what to do?

Put a patch on one eye -- mess with pure depth-perception -- and get the hands working harder?

Seriously? Fix this and it's another 4-6 points a game.

Great to be sweating the details!

Insight? Ideas?

[sgarcia]

Loved it last night: we're in a New World.

Something to fix:

Seriously: Are there drills Mack can install in practice to tighten up the close-in, under the basket passing.

Many of those feeds are marvelously creative and seem to be catchable. If they were caught, it would be bunny points.

But a number of them go "incomplete," bounce around and get turned the other way.

Grrrr.

You guys who coach -- what to do?

Put a patch on one eye -- mess with pure depth-perception -- and get the hands working harder?

Seriously? Fix this and it's another 4-6 points a game.

Great to be sweating the details!

Insight? Ideas?

Maybe just lob it up to the rim and have our bigs go get it instead of passes at their shins.

[xu82]

It's the gift that keeps on giving! Just turned on the TV and there's 6 minutes left in the replay! No complaints here.

[XUFan09]

Maybe just lob it up to the rim and have our bigs go get it instead of passes at their shins.
Yeah, a number of those passes were difficult to catch, because they required a 6'10" player grabbing a bounce pass one foot off the ground when he was preparing to go to the rim.

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[ammtd34]

i think he just means that there are plenty of players his size and position who have the same kind of game as Bluiett. He is a very good shooter and rebounds pretty well. But aside from that, he really doesnt do anything that special.

I know that's what he meant. I'm saying that it's not the case.

I understand that it's difficult to make the NBA. I'm not arguing that Trevon will play there. I'm saying that calling guys like him "a dime a dozen" is drastically undervaluing him.

[CSS85]

I don't think some of you realize just how ridiculously hard it is to make the NBA, and then even if you make it, to actually stay on a roster. Draymond Green by the way was the Big 10 player of the year his Senior year. Anyways, I'm not knocking Tre, he's a great player...he's just not an NBA player.

I think the key in this post is "Senior Year". One, can't miss NBA players virtually never make it to a Senior Year anymore, hence the NBA view on Green was decidedly mixed; and two, Tre is a sophomore who has made marked improvement from his Freshman year. I don't really disagree with most of the points being made here except to judge a guy's future so early. There are many examples of guys who were thought to be sure NBA all stars that flush out, and guys who start in the D League and eventually become All Stars. You can't judge heart and determination through height and weight, in any sport, and those are huge difference making factors. The Steelers make their living with undrafted guys who become stars. Lets just see how Tre and Ed, and Jalen, and anyone else who might have NBA potential actually perform when given an opportunity before we pass judgement.

Did you think anyone would include James Farr and NBA in the same sentence prior to this year? There was another thread on here regarding NBA scouts and their opinion of Farr, and you would not have found that prior to this year. Jimmy certainly has limitations, but evaluating his NBA prospects right now is not the joke it would have been his first 3 years.

[waggy]

If Steph Curry can play in the NBA so can Trevon.

[Xville]

If Steph Curry can play in the NBA so can Trevon.

I sincerely hope there is some sarcasm in this post. One, Steph Curry is a freak ball handler, a point guard, can shoot from anywhere in the gym, and a pretty damn good athlete.

[GoMuskies]

If Steph Curry can play in the NBA so can Trevon.

If the best player in the world can play in the NBA, then.....what was your point exactly?!?

[ArizonaXUGrad]

On the ball slam, I don't remember any referee being that close to it. I do, however, remember Musini slamming that ball in front of the official which is a big no-no.

I know they have the discretion, but if you are going to slam the ball in frustration don't do it directly in front of the official.

[waggy]

If the best player in the world can play in the NBA, then.....what was your point exactly?!?


He's the best shooter in the world. He's not a great athlete. Which is my point.

[D-West & PO-Z]

On the ball slam, I don't remember any referee being that close to it. I do, however, remember Musini slamming that ball in front of the official which is a big no-no.

I know they have the discretion, but if you are going to slam the ball in frustration don't do it directly in front of the official.

I remember an official being pretty close but could be mistaken, I was shocked it wasnt called but very happy. Ref showed a lot of restraint realizing how that would affect the game in such a close one at the end.

[GoMuskies]

He's the best shooter in the world. He's not a great athlete. Which is my point.

He's the best basketball player in the world. When Trevon is that, his place in the NBA will be secure.

[Xville]

He's the best shooter in the world. He's not a great athlete. Which is my point.

He's also one of the best ball handlers in the league and a point guard...neither of which tre can do. Steph is also a pretty damn good athlete...not the best by nba standards but still pretty good.

[waggy]

He's the best basketball player in the world. When Trevon is that, his place in the NBA will be secure.

Curry wasn't "the best player in the world" out of Davidson. I haven't looked up his early NBA stats, but I don't recall him doing all that much. It's taken him years to get to this point. And it's not because he's a physically gifted freak. He's probably no more athletic than Tre.

[waggy]

Or how 'bout James "looks like I got a load in my pants" Hardin?

[XUMIOH12]

Curry wasn't "the best player in the world" out of Davidson. I haven't looked up his early NBA stats, but I don't recall him doing all that much. It's taken him years to get to this point. And it's not because he's a physically gifted freak. He's probably no more athletic than Tre.

I agree with the athleticism part. But, he was always a great shooter, and averaged over 17ppg as a rookie. His ballhandling is probably what has improved the most.

[GoMuskies]

He was pretty fantastic as a rookie. He's certainly improved immensely, though.

[Xville]

Curry wasn't "the best player in the world" out of Davidson. I haven't looked up his early NBA stats, but I don't recall him doing all that much. It's taken him years to get to this point. And it's not because he's a physically gifted freak. He's probably no more athletic than Tre.

When Tre can play the point guard position in college, then you can start comparing him to Curry, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

[LA Muskie]

1. Curry is an elite athlete. He is a specimen.

2. Trevon is far more than "a dime a dozen". Just ask any coach who has to game plan against him. By no means is he an NBA lock. But I'd be shocked if he wasn't given a shot. There are enough styles in the NBA at this point that he can fit in somewhere if he proves himself.


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[waggy]

Curry's assist to turnover ration is 46th in the NBA.

That'd make Tre a lottery pick.

[GoMuskies]

If Trevon could do all the other things Curry does just as well as him, sure.

[waggy]

1. Curry is an elite athlete. He is a specimen.




A specimen? ESPN lists him at 6-3, 190.

[Backyard Champ]

I get the sense that Waggy just doesn't watch the NBA. Which is fine, but comparing Tre to some of the best scorers in the NBA, and some of the best athletes in the league is crazy.

[waggy]

By NBA standards Curry is the opposite of a specimen.

[Juice]

I get the sense that Waggy just doesn't watch the NBA. Which is fine, but comparing Tre to some of the best scorers in the NBA, and some of the best athletes in the league is crazy.

And let's not forget that Curry is arguably the best ball handler in the league. Trevon can't do a third of what Steph can do with the ball.

[LA Muskie]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13019137/2015-nba-playoffs-how-stephen-curry-put-ankle-issues-him

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14378254/unorthodox-training-routine-golden-state-warriors-stephen-curry

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[D-West & PO-Z]

Wow, this thread is awesome.

Trying to compare Trevon to Steph, so good! :lolgroup:

[drudy23]

Steph Curry is the most skilled player in the NBA (possibly ever)...and there's a difference between skill and athleticism. By NBA standards, he's not super athletic, but his skills (ball handling, shooting, passing, IQ, quickness, vision) more than make up for it.

[LA Muskie]

A specimen? ESPN lists him at 6-3, 190.

OK so your definition of athlete is purely based on size then? Gotcha. We have a very different understanding of the meaning of that term.


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[LA Muskie]

Steph Curry is the most skilled player in the NBA...and there's a difference between skill and athleticism. By NBA standards, he's not super athletic, but his skills (ball handling, shooting, passing, IQ, quickness, vision) more than make up for it.

I agree and I disagree. There is a difference between skill and athleticism. I agree. But aside from not dunking like a freak (or, until last week, at all) he is extremely athletic. Unless your definition of "athletic" is "jumps high."

There's a reason much of the league is trying to mimic his workout regimen.

PS: Quickness isn't s skill. It is an element of athleticism.

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[D-West & PO-Z]

I think Waggy gets off on being able to derail any thread at any time. I really think he's messing with us and just loves that we are actually debating this. I really dont think there is any way he believes some of the things he says.

[drudy23]

I agree and I disagree. There is a difference between skill and athleticism. I agree. But aside from not dunking like a freak (or, until last week, at all) he is extremely athletic. Unless your definition of "athletic" is "jumps high."

There's a reason much of the league is trying to mimic his workout regimen.


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I said "by NBA standards"...and by NBA standards, he's far from the top of the athletic mountain. He's nowhere in the same stratosphere as someone like Russell Westbrook from an athleticism standpoint.

To you and me...yes, he's an athletic freak.

[LA Muskie]

I think he is as freakishly quick and nimble as Russell is a leaper. I think those traits are equally "athletic". It's just that the latter results in monstrous dunks.


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[XUFan09]

I think Waggy gets off on being able to derail any thread at any time. I really think he's messing with us and just loves that we are actually debating this. I really dont think there is any way he believes some of the things he says.
Yup.

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[drudy23]

I think he is as freakishly quick and nimble as Russell is a leaper. I think those traits are equally "athletic". It's just that the latter results in monstrous dunks.


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Agreed...but Russell is also that freakishly quick as well as being that freakishly explosive. I'm not saying Steph isn't athletic, I'm saying in comparison to NBA level athleticism, he's not near the top.

Why is this so hard to understand? It's pretty obvious.

[Olsingledigit]

Loved that Jalen played so well, don't mind flexing or anything like that.


But when he got the rebound late in the game and traveled (fell down) he slammed the ball which I thought was an automatic T.

It is not automatic but is at the discretion of the ref.

[LA Muskie]

Agreed...but Russell is also that freakishly quick as well as being that explosive. I'm not saying Steph isn't athletic, I'm saying in comparison to NBA level athleticism, he's not near the top.

Why is this so hard? It's pretty obvious.

OK maybe we were "arguing" past each other then. I'm not saying he's one of the most athletic NBA players. But he is athletic, even by NBA standards. Just not in the sense that he is rattling rims with dunks.


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[ammtd34]

I agree with LA. Balance, quickness, and coordination are all part of athleticism. Steph is well above average in all of those.

[paulxu]

Somebody send Trevon the Curry workout tapes.

[xukeith]

Wow, Sumner had a pretty off game on the offensive end. 1 point on 0-9 shooting? An one of those misses was a wide open dunk. His rebounds helped though, he had 8 of them.

I do love our team's depth. If you gave me Sumner's stats against a top ten team on the road, I'd guess loss every time. The depth was also was huge in crunch time with two of our best players fouled out. Great team victory!

Sumner did go up against the Defensive Player of the Year, Kris Dunn(7 steals??)

Sumner will be stronger and smarter next year. Hope in the NCAA tourney, he does not get exposed like that again.
Only 4-7 teams have that great of guards.

[XUMIOH12]

this thread has been all over the place the last day or so haha

[Cheesehead]

So, who won the game last night?

[D-West & PO-Z]

So, who won the game last night?

We did but it didnt count because Providence didnt have enough rest inbetween games.

[XUMIOH12]

We did but it didnt count because Providence didnt have enough rest inbetween games.

Xavier won but will have to forfeit because they were using an ineligible player, since Trevon Bluiett is also the best player in the NBA.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Xavier won but will have to forfeit because they were using an ineligible player, since Trevon Bluiett is also the best player in the NBA.

HA that's good.

[profson]

On the ball slam, I don't remember any referee being that close to it. I do, however, remember Musini slamming that ball in front of the official which is a big no-no.

I know they have the discretion, but if you are going to slam the ball in frustration don't do it directly in front of the official.

Jalen did more than slam the ball. He then got in the ref's face until O'Mara intervened. Lucky, I say, that a T was not called.

[kyxu]

Jalen did more than slam the ball. He then got in the ref's face until O'Mara intervened. Lucky, I say, that a T was not called.

I agree. A T should have been called on Jalen, and I was really surprised it wasn't. I have never seen a ball slam that went above the head NOT called a tech.

Having said that, he was undercut on the rebound by a Providence player, and should have drawn the foul. Instead, he was hit with a turnover in a critical situation, which is what drew the ire. Not justifying his actions, but I could certainly understand.

[LA Muskie]

I agree. A T should have been called on Jalen, and I was really surprised it wasn't. I have never seen a ball slam that went above the head NOT called a tech.

Having said that, he was undercut on the rebound by a Providence player, and should have drawn the foul. Instead, he was hit with a turnover in a critical situation, which is what drew the ire. Not justifying his actions, but I could certainly understand.
He absolutely had reason to be upset. But you can't compound the refs error with a T in that situation. Thankfully the official seems to have taken pity on him. Maybe he knew he blew the call...

[profson]

I have been to many Xavier games away from Cintas. I have to say that the Dunkin Donuts center was probably the loudest arena I've ever been in last night. Absolutely deafening.

Absolutely. I had to sit 3 or 4 times and cover my ears because the decibel level was making me lose balance and actually hurt. It did not help that the two women next to me had the loudest, highest pitched screeches imaginable, right in my ear.
I need to give a shout out to Myles. His ability to bring the ball up against the pressure (I shudder if Sumner had to do it against Dunn), his calming influence as true team leader and several bull drives against more athletic defenders were very important.
No one has mentioned this, but if Pascal Chukwu had stayed at Providence -- no one knows why he left -- that team would be fearsome indeed, as he was an elite, 7'2" rim protector.

[SemajParlor]

No one has mentioned this, but if Pascal Chukwu had stayed at Providence -- no one knows why he left -- that team would be fearsome indeed, as he was an elite, 7'2" rim protector.

Watched Pascal many many times in High School. Has a ton of talent - still has some work to do to put it all together. From what I heard Cooley was devastated. Hope he has a successful career at Cuse.

[kyxu]

He absolutely had reason to be upset. But you can't compound the refs error with a T in that situation. Thankfully the official seems to have taken pity on him. Maybe he knew he blew the call...

Yep, would not disagree with you. Jalen CANNOT react like that, and he definitely got away with it.

[kyxu]

Absolutely. I had to sit 3 or 4 times and cover my ears because the decibel level was making me lose balance and actually hurt. It did not help that the two women next to me had the loudest, highest pitched screeches imaginable, right in my ear.
I need to give a shout out to Myles. His ability to bring the ball up against the pressure (I shudder if Sumner had to do it against Dunn), his calming influence as true team leader and several bull drives against more athletic defenders were very important.
No one has mentioned this, but if Pascal Chukwu had stayed at Providence -- no one knows why he left -- that team would be fearsome indeed, as he was an elite, 7'2" rim protector.

A close friend and fellow XU alum was in attendance at last night's game, sitting just a few rows behind the Xavier bench. He said it was the absolute loudest game he had ever attended. Great job to the Providence fans for creating such an atmosphere.

[XUMIOH12]

Absolutely. I had to sit 3 or 4 times and cover my ears because the decibel level was making me lose balance and actually hurt. It did not help that the two women next to me had the loudest, highest pitched screeches imaginable, right in my ear.
I need to give a shout out to Myles. His ability to bring the ball up against the pressure (I shudder if Sumner had to do it against Dunn), his calming influence as true team leader and several bull drives against more athletic defenders were very important.
No one has mentioned this, but if Pascal Chukwu had stayed at Providence -- no one knows why he left -- that team would be fearsome indeed, as he was an elite, 7'2" rim protector.

http://pcbb1917.com/2015/06/29/the-curious-case-of-paschal-chukwu/

Who knows what is true, but it always seemed a little odd that he would transfer there before this season.

[XUMIOH12]

It makes a big difference because they really have no shot blockers to protect the rim or even alter shots.

[XUFan09]

He absolutely had reason to be upset. But you can't compound the refs error with a T in that situation. Thankfully the official seems to have taken pity on him. Maybe he knew he blew the call...
I feel like he did know that he blew the call. A less humble ref (read: one that can't see his mistakes easily) would have T'ed him up for sure.

In reference to the ball slam going above the head always getting called, that's not necessarily true. We just saw it go uncalled when Xavier played SJU and Mussini slammed the ball in frustration. Personally, I think the fact that this can be called for a T is stupid and really just protects the thin skin that some refs have. It's one thing if you throw the ball, but if you just bounce it so it goes up in the air above you, it doesn't really matter.

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[GoMuskies]

We just saw it go uncalled when Xavier played SJU and Mussini slammed the ball in frustration.


Maybe I'm living in an alternate universe, but I'm pretty sure Mussini got T'd up.

[XUFan09]

Maybe I'm living in an alternate universe, but I'm pretty sure Mussini got T'd up.
He didn't, which was the surprising thing. Maybe it was because it was near the end of the game that they didn't call it.

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[kyxu]

He didn't, which was the surprising thing. Maybe it was because it was near the end of the game that they didn't call it.

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Yeah, he got T'd up. It was a topic of much conversation at the conclusion of the XU-SJU game.

[XU 87]

How impressive was this win? Sumner had one point last night.

Lots of weapons on this team.

[Nigel Tufnel]

catching it on the way up after it bounces off the floor is what you are thinking of. Like if you slam it on the floor but catch it on the way up and it doesnt go flying way up in the air. Either way it was nice of the officials to not make that call that would have a huge effect on the end of the game.

That may be exactly what I was thinking about. And yes, I agree, regardless, the ref could have called a technical and didn't. Good for X.

[GoMuskies]

He didn't, which was the surprising thing. Maybe it was because it was near the end of the game that they didn't call it.

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The ESPN.com folks recording the play by play were watching in the alternate universe with me. See 1:34 of the second half.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400840320&period=2

[XUMIOH12]

He didn't, which was the surprising thing. Maybe it was because it was near the end of the game that they didn't call it.

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Mussini got a T for slamming the ball. You are thinking of the Gtown player that slammed the ball after the out of bounds call on the sideline last week, and did not get a T.

[ammtd34]

Mussini got a T for slamming the ball. You are thinking of the Gtown player that slammed the ball after the out of bounds call on the sideline last week, and did not get a T.

Yep. It was Georgetown.

[LA Muskie]

He didn't, which was the surprising thing. Maybe it was because it was near the end of the game that they didn't call it.
Mussini got T'd up. You're thinking of the GTown game at Cintas where one of the GTown player did it and it didn't get called. (Although in his defense, unlike the SJU and Jalen situations it was pretty clear he was upset with himself for stepping out of bounds and not at the ref.)

[XUFan09]

Dur, I'm an idiot.

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[muskiefan82]

Dur, I'm an idiot.

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That is a separate thread. :ohno:

[xu82]

Dur, I'm an idiot.

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But look how many people were quick to point that out!

[Masterofreality]

Observations from inside the building in a very satisfying victory.

- the place was electric, so keeping a good lead for a long time was important
- lots of contributors but to me the MVP was clearly Davis. Single handedly took care of the pressure, particularly on a day that Sumner was MIA (to put it mildly), managed the offense, kept the team calm in times of stress and made drives at critical points that one would not think a player of his limited physical skills could pull off
- very lucky not to get a T, at a bad time, when Jalen slammed the ball. Whether he had a reason to be upset is irrelevant - one of these days his cluelessness will cost
- using the 1-3-1 extensively was a no-brainer; it controlled Dunn and kept Jalen's fouls down; if we lost because they got hot from 3 so be it
- for those who are quick to anoint a good college player, especially a big, as an NBA'er, Ben Bentil is what a pro prospect looks like

Good job Profson!!! Way to represent!!!!

[XUFan09]

That is a separate thread. :ohno:


But look how many people were quick to point that out!
Lol

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[LA Muskie]

Let's be honest, with all his astute statistical analysis '09 deserved to be knocked down a few notches. Don't want him getting too big a head...

[XUFan09]

Let's be honest, with all his astute statistical analysis '09 deserved to be knocked down a few notches. Don't want him getting too big a head...
You're a few years late for that... ;-)

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[smileyy]

I just watched the video of the Macura shot over and over. I noticed that Macura was essentially unguarded after the attempted trap on Myles(?). O'Mara's man had rotated over, but when O'Mara went down to the block, he followed, and there was nobody to contest Macura's shot. That was a great court read by JP.

[paulxu]

HAH! The local Fox Sports Channel (not FS1) apparently has no truck pulls, UFC or dirt bikes to show.

So.....they are re-running the Xavier v Providence game in its entirety. This is going to be fun. Going to get some popcorn.

[xu82]

HAH! The local Fox Sports Channel (not FS1) apparently has no truck pulls, UFC or dirt bikes to show.

So.....they are re-running the Xavier v Providence game in its entirety. This is going to be fun. Going to get some popcorn.

I caught the last 10 minutes this morning. A lot more fun when you know it ends well.

[paulxu]

I just saw Jimmy Farr give a mini flex.

[XUFan09]

I just saw Jimmy Farr give a mini flex.
We can't have that.

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[paulxu]

Providence closes within 3.

"Chris Mack wants a timeout. JP Macura is going to shoot!!"

hee-hee.

[Jesuit4Life]

Replay courtesy of FriarTV: https://youtu.be/WWVHmGiWB4A

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