XAVIER vs MARQUETTE

[MADXSTER]

1904 vs 1905

#7 Xavier University Musketeers (15-1) RPI 2, SOS 9, KENPOM 10
W Miami(OH) 81-72
W Missouri 78-66
W Michigan 86-70
W NKU 78-66
W Alabama 64-45
W USC 87-77
W _ayton 90-61
W Western Kentucky 95-64
W Wright State 90-55
W Cincinnati 65-55
W Auburn 85-61
W Wake Forest 78-70
L Villanova 95-64
W Butler 88-69
W St Johns 74-66
W DePaul 84-64


vs Marquette Golden Eagles (12-4) RPI 114, SOS 168, KENPOM 111
L Belmont 83-80
W IUPUI 75-71
L Iowa 89-61
W LSU 81-80
W Arizona St 78-73
W Jackson St 80-61
W Grambling St 95-49
W Maine 104-67
W San Jose St 80-62
W Wisconsin 57-55
W Chicago St 91-74
W Presbyterian 84-66
L Seton Hall 83-63
L Georgetown 80-70
W Providence 65-64
W St John's 81-75
1/13 Villanova ??


Location: Marquette
Saturday Jan 16th 2015 at 2:00pm EST
Television: FS1
Radio: 700WLW-AM with play-by-play from Xavier Hall of Famer and former Musketeer standout Joe Sunderman ('79). Analysis will be provided by Xavier Hall of Famer and XU all-time leading scorer Byron Larkin ('88).

[GoMuskies]

This is one that will not be easy but that we just absolutely cannot lose if we hope to compete for a conference championship.

[Frambo]

planning to drive up for this one. What section are the X fans sitting in (from the X ticket office?)?

[kyxu]

This is one that will not be easy but that we just absolutely cannot lose if we hope to compete for a conference championship.

Agreed. We are decisively better than Marquette, but our struggle against SJU gives pause.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Conference road games are always tough regardless of the opponent. I would love to see Ed back, the team focused, and a blow out win. If we play like St. Johns this will be an L.


Agreed. We are decisively better than Marquette, but our struggle against SJU gives pause.

[X-band '01]

This team would be #1-seed caliber if they blow out Marquette. I can see Xavier winning on Saturday, but you're begging if you think this will be an easy win like it was in Milwaukee last season.

Marquette is going to be more desperate as they look to make their own NCAA case.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I agree, except that Marquette's win is based on Ellenson. Freshman are inconsistent. I am hopeful, but realistically it will probably be a tough close game.


This team would be #1-seed caliber if they blow out Marquette. I can see Xavier winning on Saturday, but you're begging if you think this will be an easy win like it was in Milwaukee last season.

Marquette is going to be more desperate as they look to make their own NCAA case.

[XUFan09]

How Xavier played against SJU has no bearing on the Marquette game. These kids aren't stupid; they know how good their opponents are. After the first few minutes of the game confirmed how much SJU sucks, they sleepwalked through the rest, and it still took some deep threes from Mussini to make it momentarily a game.

Marquette is a solid opponent that is tough at home, and the players know it. I'm not saying they'll automatically play well because of that, but they definitely won't just go through the motions. If they play as poorly as in the SJU game, it will be a different type of bad.

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[GIMMFD]

How Xavier played against SJU has no bearing on the Marquette game. These kids aren't stupid; they know how good their opponents are. After the first few minutes of the game confirmed how much SJU sucks, they sleepwalked through the rest, and it still took some deep threes from Mussini to make it momentarily a game.

Marquette is a solid opponent that is tough at home, and the players know it. I'm not saying they'll automatically play well because of that, but they definitely won't just go through the motions. If they play as poorly as in the SJU game, it will be a different type of bad.

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I agree, it's a lot harder to get up and ready for a game against St. John's than it is Marquette (currently, not traditionally). It's in the mindset of players, and that's been the case all the time. And before we go rambling on about how it's the coach's job to make sure that happens, it's not Mack's fault, no matter how good of a speech you give, when the opponent sucks, they suck. I have full faith we'll see a well prepared team on Saturday, and I would love to see Sumner back in the fold. I think we win this one, and set ourselves up for success in the conference.

[Snipe]

planning to drive up for this one. What section are the X fans sitting in (from the X ticket office?)?


I was thinking about making the drive myself. I am not in the mood to sit around and watch football and brood about why the Bengals aren't playing any more. Looks like a little over 6 hours. I have never been to Milwaukee. Looks like a fun go.

[Masterofreality]

Big Game Jimmy and Jalen may log their highest minute total of the year- being on the court at the same time. Ellenson and Fischer will need to be defended.
Hope we stay out of foul trouble. Mr. O'Mara can play a huge role in this game.

[UCGRAD4X]

Big Game Jimmy and Jalen may log their highest minute total of the year- being on the court at the same time. Ellenson and Fischer will need to be defended.
Hope we stay out of foul trouble. Mr. O'Mara can play a huge role in this game.

Isn't it nice to have the flexibility and depth of talent to be able to play a whole different focus. Jalen, and Farr especially, had played so 'big' earlier in the year, for whatever reason that has not been the dominant part of our game most recently.

I'm not NEARLY smart enough to know how much of this is by design of the teams we are playing, our strategy and how much just the ebb and flow of college athletics (a season is a lifetime) and student life in general...(maybe all of the above?).

[WCWIII]

planning to drive up for this one. What section are the X fans sitting in (from the X ticket office?)?

The tickets I got from Xavier are Sec 416, Row P. They are going to an alum and his son. I got some other tickets in Sec 226 which I thought was close to the Xavier bench but Seating charts show it close to Marquette's bench. Did the Marquette switch bench sides? Pictures show the Marquette team on the other side.

Pregame event at Mo's Irish Pub.

[Masterofreality]

The tickets I got from Xavier are Sec 416, Row P. They are going to an alum and his son. I got some other tickets in Sec 226 which I thought was close to the Xavier bench but Seating charts show it close to Marquette's bench. Did the Marquette switch bench sides? Pictures show the Marquette team on the other side.

Pregame event at Mo's Irish Pub.

Can't make Marquette, but see you in Chicago for DePaul!

[xuwin]

Big Game Jimmy and Jalen may log their highest minute total of the year- being on the court at the same time. Ellenson and Fischer will need to be defended.
Hope we stay out of foul trouble. Mr. O'Mara can play a huge role in this game.

I see O'Mara getting lots of time against Fischer and Gates getting playing time against Ellenson.

[xufan2434]

Big Game Jimmy and Jalen may log their highest minute total of the year- being on the court at the same time. Ellenson and Fischer will need to be defended.
Hope we stay out of foul trouble. Mr. O'Mara can play a huge role in this game.

Agreed, think this will definitely be their toughest test to date in terms of rebounding. Not going to have that advantage. I'm assuming Mack is going to go with Jalen and James in the starting lineup or else Tre is gonna get beat up. Even if Ed doesn't play, our wings and guards are significantly better than theirs. Stay away from foul trouble and 2nd chance points (obviously)

[XMuskieFTW]

I'm in. Got my tickets through Xavier, but they never arrived. Called the ticket office, so mine will be at will call when I get there. Assuming I'll probably be in 416 or around there also. Never been to Milwaukee before, so definitely looking forward to this one.

[powerofX]

Three of us (two 2000 grads) will be rockin section 202.

[RoseyMuskie]

Can't make Marquette, but see you in Chicago for DePaul!

Will you be at the reception? If so, look forward to meeting you.

[Masterofreality]

Will you be at the reception? If so, look forward to meeting you.

Yesssssssssssssssssss! Signed up!!!

[Emp]

I was thinking about making the drive myself. I am not in the mood to sit around and watch football and brood about why the Bengals aren't playing any more. Looks like a little over 6 hours. I have never been to Milwaukee. Looks like a fun go.

One of my sisters lived in Milwaukee for awhile. Went to the famous Kevin O'Neil meltdown game when the then Warriors blew an 8 point lead with 50 sends left. Gladden heroics.

For an otherworldly/ Old Wordly German-American experience, seek out the Turners "clubhouse" and visit the Usingers sausage flagship store.

[X-Fan]

Not sure this has been posted yet, but here's a decent preview of the game by ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14575187

Hope Katz & Greenberg don't get fired for mentioning (much less being complementary of) the Big East! 

[xeus]

The tickets I got from Xavier are Sec 416, Row P. They are going to an alum and his son. I got some other tickets in Sec 226 which I thought was close to the Xavier bench but Seating charts show it close to Marquette's bench. Did the Marquette switch bench sides? Pictures show the Marquette team on the other side.

Pregame event at Mo's Irish Pub.


Marquette's benches are the opposite of what they are at Cintas - I think. 226 should be behind the X bench.

[xukeith]

I hope this year is more than a "Sweet 16" season.

[MADXSTER]

I hope this year is more than a "Sweet 16" season.

You and everyone else.

[XUFan09]

I hope this year is more than a "Sweet 16" season.

I think he was just referring to that as the minimum year-to-year, in contrast to Marquette's attempts to develop under Wojo.

I thought Seth Greenberg was a clown when he first started his work as a commentator after losing the Virginia Tech job, but he's really come around, doing good research on teams that he's going to talk about.

[Masterofreality]

One of my sisters lived in Milwaukee for awhile. Went to the famous Kevin O'Neil meltdown game when the then Warriors blew an 8 point lead with 50 sends left. Gladden heroics.

For an otherworldly/ Old Wordly German-American experience, seek out the Turners "clubhouse" and visit the Usingers sausage flagship store.

That game is one of my favorite Xavier games of all time. Xavier won and O'Nuckelhead was so demeaning about Marquette having to be lowered to playing in the MCC. Not long after they they got their lifeboat to the Great Midwest. It was sooooooo great to beat that smug bastard's ass.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://twitter.com/CoachChrisMack/status/688373167409201154

[paulxu]

Get some!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY2Xv5zWAAEqv0H.jpg

edit: nice timing bobbie

[bobbiemcgee]

Coach Mack on Ed, Twin Towers and how the team improved with Ed out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDb4zWwEUcw&feature=youtu.be

[Xville]

Ellenson and Fischer working us so far.

[Xville]

Sumner!!! He's back baby!

[Chester Copperpot]

Ellenson and Fischer working us so far.

Just need better ball pressure on these guys. They will turn it over.

[Xville]

We need to get the ball inside more..settling for a few too many jump shots

[X Factor]

When was the last time Abel made a three?

[Xville]

Awful pass myles...I swear once a game every single game he does something that has me shaking my head

[Xville]

Great little run here...I like the twin towers playing together.

[RoseyMuskie]

Nice "rebound" game by Farr. And good to see Ed back!

[Xville]

Sumner is so freaking good it's ridiculous. I really think he's gone after two years, he is a first round draft pick talent.

[xubrew]

Reynolds needs to get his head out of his ass. I don't say that as someone who takes issues with his character. I say that as a person who knows how effective opponents can be when they get inside the head of someone who is a head case (IE the Steelers v Bengals). If a team can piss the other guy off and make them do something stupid then it's a huge advantage to them. Sooner or later that is going to happen.

[RoseyMuskie]

Reynolds needs to get his head out of his ass. I don't say that as someone who takes issues with his character. I say that as a person who knows how effective opponents can be when they get inside the head of someone who is a head case (IE the Steelers v Bengals). If a team can piss the other guy off and make them do something stupid then it's a huge advantage to them. Sooner or later that is going to happen.

Agree. Always hoped he'd learn to control his emotion. It hasn't. At this point, likely never will. Counter point. Makes him the player he is though.

[Jesuit4Life]

https://twitter.com/XavierGameday/status/688447566619357184

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[smileyy]

Who would have thought that Jimmy >> Jalen this year? I mean, Jalen brings an athleticism that Jimmy doesn't, that is essential sometimes. Jimmy has been amazing this year.

[Xville]

Great half from farr....thank goodness for him this year!

[Masterofreality]

BS tech on Jalen. The refs are basically keeping Marquette in the game.
Zone is working like a charm, and Big Game James is a stud. Jalen take notes.

[xukeith]

Happy with Sumner.
He looks like he is about 60% but his 5 points were electric

[Xville]

BS tech on Jalen. The refs are basically keeping Marquette in the game.
Zone is working like a charm, and Big Game James is a stud. Jalen take notes.

Actually we are lucky to be up this much in my opinion. Marquette missed a lot of wide open threes in the first half, plus Fischer was out halfway thru.

[xubrew]

Xavier is good. Xavier is really fucking good!!

[nasdadjr]

BS tech on Jalen. The refs are basically keeping Marquette in the game.
Zone is working like a charm, and Big Game James is a stud. Jalen take notes.

Can we please have one damn game where the officiating isn't blamed for everything. Marquette has more fouls on them I believe and it was a double Tech. Both were jawing refs did right thing.

[Xville]

Looking really strong this half....this team is so special

[nasdadjr]

BS tech on Jalen. The refs are basically keeping Marquette in the game.
Zone is working like a charm, and Big Game James is a stud. Jalen take notes.

Marquette called for 2 more fouls and we have shot 1 more free throw. Sounds like we are getting homered to me ( sarcasm)

[Jesuit4Life]

https://twitter.com/XavierGameday/status/688460574661849088

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[Masterofreality]

Can we please have one damn game where the officiating isn't blamed for everything. Marquette has more fouls on them I believe and it was a double Tech. Both were jawing refs did right thing.

Ed Corbett, a good ref, would not have called a tech there. Would have called the two guys together and gave warnings.

And I hardly EVER say anything about refs. That was a Bullsheet tech call. As for today, only good ref out thee is Pat Driscoll.

[Masterofreality]

Myles I not having a good game today.

[X Factor]

Myles and Abel are MIA.

[nasdadjr]

Ed Corbett, a good ref, would not have called a tech there. Would have called the two guys together and gave warnings.

And I hardly EVER say anything about refs. That was a Bullsheet tech call. As for today, only good ref out thee is Pat Driscoll.

My line was not really directed at you but everyone in general. I'm just of the opinion the calls have not been one sided at all and every game people on are here bitching about the refs. I'd really like to talk hoops and not have a ref discussion every game cause none of us could call the game better

[paulxu]

When you have your foot on their throat...you should press down...not let up.

[smileyy]

Myles and Abel are MIA.

And they're still up 12. What a team.

[Jesuit4Life]

Myles hitting the daggers now.

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[smileyy]

Myles hitting the daggers now.

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And 7 boards and 3 assists according to the box score.

I assume Abell is spending all his energy on D? I'm not able to watch the games.

[X Factor]

Myles baby!!!

[Masterofreality]

Myles hitting the daggers now.

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Welcome back Myles!!! Glad to see you again!!!!

[X Factor]

Beast drive by Edmond!

[xavierj]

My line was not really directed at you but everyone in general. I'm just of the opinion the calls have not been one sided at all and every game people on are here bitching about the refs. I'd really like to talk hoops and not have a ref discussion every game cause none of us could call the game better

I think you are the only one talking about refs. And Sumner is pretty good.

[X Factor]

Abel's head is in his butt

[XfansinKy]

Get the ball to Myles

[Xville]

I feel like the energy was a little lax the last ten or so minutes, but whatever a win on the road and sumner is back!

[BMoreX]

James Farr listened to Chris Mack.

[xavierj]

I feel like the energy was a little lax the last ten or so minutes, but whatever a win on the road and sumner is back!

I think that is just how good they are. Seem like they could play better yet they just keep rolling. Will be scary when they put it all together.

[xu82]

Abel's head is in his butt

That's GOT to hurt!

[RoseyMuskie]

Great win. Even when Myles struggles, he contributes. This team is so deep.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Good win on the road against a decent team. Farr is the MAN. Welcome back Ed. X should be ranked #5 by AP next week.

[Strange Brew]

It kind of felt like I was watching a cat playing with a ball of yarn.

This team is really good.

[xukeith]

Good win on the road against a decent team. Farr is the MAN. Welcome back Ed. X should be ranked #5 by AP next week.

If X is #5 that means X jumps Villanova.
I think if all things stay the same, best X can do is go up to #6.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

If X is #5 that means X jumps Villanova.
I think if all things stay the same, best X can do is go up to #6.

Don't forget both Mich. St. And Maryland lost this week.

[Masterofreality]

Road wins in conference are always special. We're not playing Fordham anymore.

The best thing about depth is that some guys can have off games (Remy) but other guys step in and pick up the slack. When Ed was out against Butler, Remy stepped up. Jalen didn't play well, but Big Game James did.

Nice to have more than 7 guys who can play.

Funny. Our win helped SucKS move up from 84 RPI to 78. F-em.

[Olsingledigit]

If X is #5 that means X jumps Villanova.
I think if all things stay the same, best X can do is go up to #6.

Three teams above us last St this past week.

[Xville]

If X is #5 that means X jumps Villanova.
I think if all things stay the same, best X can do is go up to #6.

Michigan state and Maryland both lost...should be top 5 in the ap unless someone jumps us.

[Olsingledigit]

Don't forget both Mich. St. And Maryland lost this week.

And OK I think

[xu82]

It kind of felt like I was watching a cat playing with a ball of yarn.

This team is really good.

More fun for the cat than the yarn. And yes, they are really good. I won't call them cats, because I'm a dog guy.

[Xavier_Musketeers]

I don't see us passing Kansas, but we should pass Maryland and Michigan State. That would be great if we had two BE teams in the top 5, and maybe Providence back in the top 10

[Masterofreality]

Jimmy Farr. 16 points, 19 rebounds. Decent game.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

CBS top 25+1 has already ranked X #5.

[Strange Brew]

Jimmy Farr. 16 points, 19 rebounds. Decent game.

:)

[xu82]

Jimmy Farr. 16 points, 19 rebounds. Decent game.

Ahhh, dude's just a back up. :-)

Actually shocked by the rebound count.

[Masterofreality]

Ahhh, dude's just a back up. :-)

Actually shocked by the rebound count.

Most RB's for a Xavier player since Travis Taylor's huge game that leads off the Tweets You Gotta Love thread.

[SkyWalker]

Great game on the road. Not to complain to much but I really would like to see a little more killer instinct on the road. Could have won that one by 15. Get up, then put them away!

[GreatWhiteNorth]

James Farr..........what a senior! So very proud of him.

[paulxu]

James Farr listened to Chris Mack.

Now, if Jalen will pay attention, watch out!

[xukeith]

James Farr..........what a senior! So very proud of him.

Hope Abell and Reynolds both in their final years can lead X even higher. Abell wanted to be defensive player of the year. Hope he does and rest of team carries the offensive load.
We are very good defensively and rebounding!

[xudash]

Now, if Jalen will pay attention, watch out!

That's it. That may define how far we go.

Imagine if Reynolds puts it as well together as James has done.

Does he try too hard? Is he wired too intensely to make calmer, better decisions during the flow of a game?

[bobbiemcgee]

Great win. Even when Myles struggles, he contributes. This team is so deep.

Hit a couple of big 3's for us when needed.(daggars!)

[Masterofreality]

James Farr..........what a senior! So very proud of him.

That guy is the definition personified of "Senior Leadership" ....ala Jason Love.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Reynolds has to get back in form. If we are going to go deep we will need his game back. He is trying too hard and you can tell he is frustrated. Simmer down big fella let the game come to you and help lead this team to a NC.

[sgarcia]

Now, if Jalen will pay attention, watch out!

I don't expect that to happen on a consistent basis. Hasn't happened since he's been here. If he can't pay attention consistently when we are 16-1 then it's never going to happen. Thankfully we have plenty of guys to step in when he tunes out.

[bobbiemcgee]

Wojo talks about Farr, Sumner and X about 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c182DaPk1o

[letskeepitreal]

Think Wojo is going to,do a good job at Marquette and loved his comments about us.

[scoscox]

Might be some chance for Xavier to get some number one votes next week. Pretenders keep falling by the wayside, just keep winning baby.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

He was amazed to see players like Farr and Sumner coming off our bench. He thought Farr could start for any team in our league.

[Caveat]

He was amazed to see players like Farr and Sumner coming off our bench. He thought Farr could start for any team in our league.

Farr is going to make a great living for himself playing professionally somewhere.

[spursy]

So this sounds hyperbolic, but could ed be the best player to ever wear an x uniform? I say we get one more year from him and then he's an easy lottery pick. Such a complete player, 6.6, and has a lot of room to put more muscle on. No doubt NBA scouts are salivating over this guy and can't wait to see him with some more lbs on him.

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[Wheelhouse]

Wojo talks about Farr, Sumner and X about 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c182DaPk1o

Great link. I really like Wojo even without the laudatory comments regarding X.

[Wheelhouse]

Really good performance against a solid opponent on the road.

[X-Fan]

SOLID win! Always good to get a road win.

Not to be overly critical, but I thought X allowed a lot of open looks from 3. Was that scouting, or bad D? More than any other season, it seems like Mack is really trying to continually get the younger guys in-game experience. Some of the player combinations are odd to me, and they seem to coincide with periods of ineffective offense and defense. I get ehy he'd doing it, and am not against it, but there are growing pains.

Certainly credit to MU for working their offense to get those open looks and penetrate the zone.

Again, great win! Many more good tests ahead! Go X!!!!

[Masterofreality]

SOLID win! Always good to get a road win.

Not to be overly critical, but I thought X allowed a lot of open looks from 3. Was that scouting, or bad D? More than any other season, it seems like Mack is really trying to continually get the younger guys in-game experience. Some of the player combinations are odd to me, and they seem to coincide with periods of ineffective offense and defense. I get ehy he'd doing it, and am not against it, but there are growing pains.

Certainly credit to MU for working their offense to get those open looks and penetrate the zone.

Again, great win! Many more good tests ahead! Go X!!!!

These kids are good...and they want to play if they earn it in practice. If they do, I'm glad that CMack is giving them court time. Better that than how Beaknose has screwed up at Oh-ho-ho State. Doesn't play his young guys and they wind up transferring. Now between that, and his scholarship losses from bad APR scores from guys leaving early, he has a real depth problem.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Can anybody provide a "win probability" chart for the game?

Once X stood up the first few minutes it felt like there was only a slight chance of MU winning the game and the 21-0 (or whatever) run sealed it.

I'd be curious about whether the run MU made at 8:00 left in the game made any mathematical difference at all.

Of all the things MU could have done to win today, I think getting Duane Wilson out of the building and into an Uber back to campus was probably the most promising. Wojo did't think of that.

Another great win. That's a very hard building and environment to win in and the Muskies shredded them.

Go X.

[bobbiemcgee]

SOLID win! Always good to get a road win.

Not to be overly critical, but I thought X allowed a lot of open looks from 3. Was that scouting, or bad D?

Huh? They were 4 for 25.

[gladdenguy]

There were a lot of open threes but like CMack said, "anytime a team goes 4-25 you're doing something right". They knock a couple down and Mack switches defenses. They weren't hitting.

[Xville]

There were a lot of open threes but like CMack said, "anytime a team goes 4-25 you're doing something right". They knock a couple down and Mack switches defenses. They weren't hitting.

Yeah I guess and I know I'm nitpicking after a win, but we gave up a ton of wide open threes. That can't happen against the great teams. Happy with the win of course but still have things to work on which is a good thing I think.

[MauriceX]

Yeah I guess and I know I'm nitpicking after a win, but we gave up a ton of wide open threes. That can't happen against the great teams. Happy with the win of course but still have things to work on which is a good thing I think.

I think that was part of the game plan. Even the announcers mentioned that Wojo said they weren't a good shooting team. Sometimes, the best defense is to let a team beat themselves. Mack was forcing them to play a game that they couldn't win.

[XUMIOH12]

Great game by Xavier on the road. The 1-3-1 killed Marquette because they are a terrible 3 pt shooting team. There really wasn't much to complain about this game.

[scoscox]

It's really crazy how effective the one three one is when a team can't hit threes. The defense specifically allows a three whenever you want, but anything else is almost impossible. In a sense, we're defensively living and dying by the three. I don't love it personally and wish we would play man, but I can't argue that it wasn't effective today.

[X-Fan]

Yeah I guess and I know I'm nitpicking after a win, but we gave up a ton of wide open threes. That can't happen against the great teams. Happy with the win of course but still have things to work on which is a good thing I think.


I think that was part of the game plan. Even the announcers mentioned that Wojo said they weren't a good shooting team. Sometimes, the best defense is to let a team beat themselves. Mack was forcing them to play a game that they couldn't win.

Yes, and that was my original question. The looks were so open that I was hoping it was on purpose. I'm cool with that being a scouting/game plan decision. In fact, with how the game went, it was brilliant.

In addition, for a game where Coach had to work Ed back into the rotation, I'm impressed he still gets Gates, Larry, and Sean minutes to keep getting them more and more valuable game experience. More than I can remember any Xavier coach, Mack has been doing a great job of winning games while making sure he develops the younger guys. Going to pay huge dividends this year and beyond!

[xuwin]

Yes, and that was my original question. The looks were so open that I was hoping it was on purpose. I'm cool with that being a scouting/game plan decision. In fact, with how the game went, it was brilliant.

In addition, for a game where Coach had to work Ed back into the rotation, I'm impressed he still gets Gates, Larry, and Sean minutes to keep getting them more and more valuable game experience. More than I can remember any Xavier coach, Mack has been doing a great job of winning games while making sure he develops the younger guys. Going to pay huge dividends this year and beyond!

It's easier to get the other guys playing time when Jalen keeps getting himself in trouble. These other guys are making large strides. How long before Jalen works himself out of the lineup.

[xu82]

Great game by Xavier on the road. The 1-3-1 killed Marquette because they are a terrible 3 pt shooting team. There really wasn't much to complain about this game.

It seems you are underestimating some of us.

[JTG]

I think that was part of the game plan. Even the announcers mentioned that Wojo said they weren't a good shooting team. Sometimes, the best defense is to let a team beat themselves. Mack was forcing them to play a game that they couldn't win.
This...the announcers mentioned Marquette was a bad 3 pt team and it was X game plan to stay in 1-3-1 until Marquette proved they could hit 3s

[Masterofreality]

I think that was part of the game plan. Even the announcers mentioned that Wojo said they weren't a good shooting team. Sometimes, the best defense is to let a team beat themselves. Mack was forcing them to play a game that they couldn't win.


This...the announcers mentioned Marquette was a bad 3 pt team and it was X game plan to stay in 1-3-1 until Marquette proved they could hit 3s

These. It was absolutely part of the scouting/game plan. Marquette is not a good shooting team from out. They hit 32% from 3. By contrast, Xavier hits 36.5% even after a lousy day yesterday? The 1-3-1 was the perfect D against them.

[XUFan09]

I don't think people fully understand the open shots in the 1-3-1. It isn't simply a situation where players can get smooth passes into a catch-and-shoot three. The high arcing passes usually leave them off balance and a few feet behind the line, while the defense screams at them to shoot it. It's jarring and it throws off most players' rhythms.

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[paulxu]

I probably don't understand it.
Watching yesterday, it does take a bit of time when the "1" of the 1-3 goes back and forth when 2 guards are passing back and forth above the arc.

But when it swings to one side, then quickly is passed back top, and into the corner on the opposite side...if the passes are crisp, that corner guy seemed to have good time to set and shoot the 3.

[SC in DC]

Was in the car listening on XM, Marquette announcers. They were fatalistic, funny and high praise for X. When we started the 2nd half in man and Farr on the bench--they were a riot! Can't quote them but things like "I'm sure not going to give Coach Mack any hints". Had to be there I guess! They seemed to think Farr and X were pretty impressive, depth, size, versatility, etc. Fun to listen to the other team's dude's knowing they are going to lose!

[XU 87]

I don't think people fully understand the open shots in the 1-3-1. It isn't simply a situation where players can get smooth passes into a catch-and-shoot three. The high arcing passes usually leave them off balance and a few feet behind the line, while the defense screams at them to shoot it. It's jarring and it throws off most players' rhythms.

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The 1-3-1 is always gong to be vulnerable to the three point shot in the corner. On the other hand, that's a lower percentage shot, even when a person is wide open. It's an even lower percentage shot when the shot is contested or the person has to hurry and shoot it.

The 1-3-1 changed the game yesterday. X really struggled at man early in the game and had a tough time matching up with their size.

I know most coaches like man to man, but Mack has shown how effective running two primary defenses can be. X played a great 2-3 zone under Matta during The Run. And Matta didn't like zone.

[XUFan09]

I probably don't understand it.
Watching yesterday, it does take a bit of time when the "1" of the 1-3 goes back and forth when 2 guards are passing back and forth above the arc.

But when it swings to one side, then quickly is passed back top, and into the corner on the opposite side...if the passes are crisp, that corner guy seemed to have good time to set and shoot the 3.

Yeah, a lot of things have to go right to get those crisp passes for the in-rhythm three. Plus, Xavier ends up deflecting or stealing a decent number of those passes.

[XU 87]

Yeah, a lot of things have to go right to get those crisp passes for the in-rhythm three. Plus, Xavier ends up deflecting or stealing a decent number of those passes.

And when teams like UC are floating high lob passes around the perimeter, they have almost no chance of getting a good shot.

[bleedXblue]

I like the 1-3-1 also, but against Nova I don't. I hope Mack has some ideas.

[WCWIII]

I probably don't understand it.
Watching yesterday, it does take a bit of time when the "1" of the 1-3 goes back and forth when 2 guards are passing back and forth above the arc.

But when it swings to one side, then quickly is passed back top, and into the corner on the opposite side...if the passes are crisp, that corner guy seemed to have good time to set and shoot the 3.

And I like the way it puts Xavier in position for the defensive rebound when the 1-3-1 collapses after the outside shot.

For Mel, Xavier's winning likelihood was above 90% for the entire 2nd half even when Marquette cut it to single digits.
1911

[smileyy]

Can anybody provide a "win probability" chart for the game?

If you subscribe to Ken Pomeroy's site he has them for every game.

[LA Muskie]

I don't think people fully understand the open shots in the 1-3-1. It isn't simply a situation where players can get smooth passes into a catch-and-shoot three. The high arcing passes usually leave them off balance and a few feet behind the line, while the defense screams at them to shoot it. It's jarring and it throws off most players' rhythms.

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That may be true in general. But they were getting good shots in rhythm. They moved the ball well. But they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.


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[LA Muskie]

And I like the way it puts Xavier in position for the defensive rebound when the 1-3-1 collapses after the outside shot.

For Mel, Xavier's winning likelihood was above 90% for the entire 2nd half even when Marquette cut it to single digits.
1911

You would think that's the case, but aside from surrendering some open 3's the other big downside to zone defenses in general is defensive rebounding. Players may be in the area, but identifying block-out assignments is much more difficult.


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[xuwin]

The 1-3-1 is always gong to be vulnerable to the three point shot in the corner. On the other hand, that's a lower percentage shot, even when a person is wide open. It's an even lower percentage shot when the shot is contested or the person has to hurry and shoot it.

The 1-3-1 changed the game yesterday. X really struggled at man early in the game and had a tough time matching up with their size.

I know most coaches like man to man, but Mack has shown how effective running two primary defenses can be. X played a great 2-3 zone under Matta during The Run. And Matta didn't like zone.

It would be interesting to see some stats on three point shooting percentages based on where on the arc they are shot from. I'm sure somebody keeps stats like that. They track everything else. I would think the corner threes have a lower percentage of success than one from the top of the key.

[paulxu]

In the NBA, where the corner is marginally closer, it's a better percentage shot:

https://www.quora.com/Are-NBA-3-pointers-shot-from-the-corner-more-accurate-than-other-locations-around-the-arc

In college, where the distance is the same all around the arc, I wouldn't think there would be much difference.

[94GRAD]

In the NBA, where the corner is marginally closer, it's a better percentage shot:

https://www.quora.com/Are-NBA-3-pointers-shot-from-the-corner-more-accurate-than-other-locations-around-the-arc

In college, where the distance is the same all around the arc, I wouldn't think there would be much difference.

Cannot bank it in from the corner

[XU 87]

It would be interesting to see some stats on three point shooting percentages based on where on the arc they are shot from. I'm sure somebody keeps stats like that. They track everything else. I would think the corner threes have a lower percentage of success than one from the top of the key.

I tried to find some stats for college but couldn't find anything. I just assumed because of the look you get and that you don't really get the shooter's roll or bounce then the three from the corner is a lower percentage than other threes, but I don't have any stats to back that up.

But I do know this much- other than Villanova teams often struggle with X's 1-3-1.

[LA Muskie]

I actually think shooters like he corner 3. Easier to square up and it's generally a more open look.


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[paulxu]

One of good stat guys, wander to the end of this and look at the colored charts and let me know if corner 3's are better or not.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rjparker/spatial_technical_report.pdf

[XU 87]

I actually think shooters like he corner 3. Easier to square up and it's generally a more open look.


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I meant it as all things being equal (same open look at various points on the court), the three from the corner would be a more difficult shot to make than threes at other spots. I have no data to support my theory.

P.S. I would agree that the baseline corner would be the spot where a player would ordinarily get the best looks when shooting threes. I just think it's a more difficult shot as opposed to other spots on the court.

[94GRAD]

One of good stat guys, wander to the end of this and look at the colored charts and let me know if corner 3's are better or not.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rjparker/spatial_technical_report.pdf

I only saw a bunch of colors, what does it all mean?

[XUFan09]

That may be true in general. But they were getting good shots in rhythm. They moved the ball well. But they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.


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Yeah, I meant more in general. Marquette had a good game plan for attacking the zone. Even then, though, a lot of those "open" threes weren't as open as they appeared.

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[xuwin]

In the NBA, where the corner is marginally closer, it's a better percentage shot:

https://www.quora.com/Are-NBA-3-pointers-shot-from-the-corner-more-accurate-than-other-locations-around-the-arc

In college, where the distance is the same all around the arc, I wouldn't think there would be much difference.

Thanks. Good info.

[LA Muskie]

One of good stat guys, wander to the end of this and look at the colored charts and let me know if corner 3's are better or not.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rjparker/spatial_technical_report.pdf

They run a few different models and incorporated home/away splits (which itself had a significant effect on probability), and it's a very limited sample size, but in general it looks like corner threes -- especially right corner threes -- have a slightly better probability of being made than most other threes. A close second is the left hand corner followed by the two extended elbows.


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[Masterofreality]

And when teams like UC are floating high lob passes around the perimeter, they have almost no chance of getting a good shot.

That's why Mick is so proud of winning a game when they shoot 31%. Cretin.